1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,280 Here's Ed Taylor with today's episode of Lead to Serve, a 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,720 leadership podcast. Hey everyone, welcome again to 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,600 another episode of the Lead to Serve podcast. 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,920 You're right in the beginning of season 6. 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,840 My name is Ed Taylor. I'm the pastor here at Calvary 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:29,640 Church in Aurora, Co. I'm your host for the podcast. 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:35,280 As for another season, we have Pastor Bob Klaykamp joining us. 8 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,360 Welcome again, Bob. Yeah, it's a privilege to be 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:38,880 here. Glad you're here. 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,640 That was one of the number one feedbacks for the podcast when 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,520 we first started it, that more and more people wanted to hear a 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,160 dialogue and we drew you in and the feedback with our dialogue 13 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:53,400 has been so good. Grateful for everyone that sends 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,120 us a note, sends us a text message, leaves us a voicemail, 15 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,960 puts a good review on the podcast, helps us to improve and 16 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,480 grow, gives us ideas for topics. We would love to hear what your 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,120 idea is for a topic. What would you like for us to 18 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:14,920 say and talk about the what what we're thinking when we put this 19 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,880 podcast together is that you're in the office with us. 20 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,960 We're actually in a studio, but the dialogue and discussion is a 21 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:25,360 lot like how we talk at staff meeting or when we're talking 22 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,920 about different topics or we have a pastors meeting and a 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,400 topic comes up, we just talk about it and we are talking 24 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:37,760 live, we're talking out loud. This podcast is not scripted. 25 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,920 We're not reading off a script, although we do have a few things 26 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,640 jotted down like scriptures or ideas that we have thought ahead 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,800 a little bit of what the topic will be, but we're not scripting 28 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,960 it because we want to. We want to think out loud and 29 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,000 grow together as well. We want to bounce ideas off each 30 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,600 other, growing in grace. And we want to appreciate again 31 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,960 your response and remember that the goal that we have is to help 32 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,640 you grow in your servant leadership so that you'll 33 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,440 glorify God and all that you do, that you'll remember that it's 34 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,200 Jesus who is our sufficiency. And the better you serve, the 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,040 better you lead. And the better you lead, the 36 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,440 better you serve. We have Pastor Bob Klaykamp, 37 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,880 Pastor Ed Taylor, and a brand new topic. 38 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,480 The topic today, kind of building on last, our last 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,360 episode is saying the hard things. 40 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:32,640 And I think last season we had a topic of doing the hard things, 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,120 which would include this. But saying the hard things is 42 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:42,520 specific to a passage of scripture that Paul shared with 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:48,200 the Ephesian church in Ephesians chapter 4, verse 15, speaking 44 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,920 the truth in love that you might grow up in all things unto him 45 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:58,440 who is the head in Christ. A very important part of your 46 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:06,360 spiritual effectiveness as a employee, as Aceo, as a mom, as 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:11,960 a dad, as a spiritual leader, as a pastor, as a church planter is 48 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,520 that you not only are honest, as we saw last time, but that you 49 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,440 say the hard things. You speak the truth in love. 50 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,120 The importance of speaking the truth in love can't be over 51 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:31,160 emphasized because we have been put in a position to say things. 52 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,000 You think about the the role that you have, for example, as a 53 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,800 parent, the role that you begin as a parent of your children is 54 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:44,440 to say things to your kids that other people won't say or say 55 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,280 things to your kids that other people don't have the authority 56 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,680 to say. Or to say things to your kids 57 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,600 that they will only receive from you. 58 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,280 And if you don't tell your kids the truth and share the hard 59 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,840 things, then you may open them up to never hearing it and 60 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,080 making serious mistakes or a whole host of things. 61 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,000 But Bob and your initial thoughts of, you know, when you 62 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,440 looking at this topic and saying the hard things, what do you 63 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,120 think? Well, I think that it's not just 64 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,959 what you say it. It includes how you say it 65 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,400 because you can. Even though you might be 66 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:29,280 speaking what's true, how you're saying it could cancel out the 67 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,440 receptability of the person you're trying to help. 68 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:38,560 Unless your goal isn't really to help, but it is to hammer them 69 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,320 into the ground. And so I mean, there's a lot of 70 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,600 things that go along with this. It's not just trying to correct 71 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,680 them, but it's it's how you do it. 72 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,240 Proverbs has a lot to say to about that. 73 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,000 Proverbs chapter 27, verse five. I'm reading from the new Living 74 00:04:55,280 --> 00:04:58,000 and open rebuke is better than hidden love. 75 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:04,920 Wounds from a sincere friend are better than many kisses of an 76 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,600 enemy. And so we got 2 pieces I think 77 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,080 we should talk about, first of all, saying hard things and then 78 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,120 what we say, and then secondly, how we say it. 79 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,720 Knowing the topics ahead of time, thinking them through. 80 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,760 Can you think of an example recently or at all in your life 81 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,960 where you had to say something hard and how you felt about it? 82 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,280 Did you delay it? Did you do it right away? 83 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,560 Did you avoid it all together? What? 84 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:34,560 What? What are you? 85 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:42,400 What are you thinking? Well, first of all, when you 86 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:48,880 find out that something needs to be dealt with, I can have a 87 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:56,160 tendency just to react and I I want to, unless it's some kind 88 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,920 of a situation where there's a light that's in danger or 89 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,400 something. I try to wait 24 hours just to 90 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:11,120 let myself settle down and not deal with it out of an 91 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,520 emotionally charged, being frustrated, angry or whatever 92 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,840 else. Because it will, that will come 93 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:21,880 out more than what I'm trying to correct. 94 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,480 And, and I've been guilty of that. 95 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:32,040 I mean, I have responded knee jerk reaction and it never goes 96 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,760 well, absolutely never goes well. 97 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:40,200 And the desire to help gets overruled by how I did it. 98 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,480 And then that's when you have to go and own it. 99 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,320 I mean it, it's sometimes you in your marriage, you have to say 100 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,560 the hard things, but how? But how you say it, when you say 101 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,160 it like, like you had mentioned as another side of this is also 102 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,760 so important. And also doing it face to face 103 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,560 and not through an e-mail, not through a text, but face to 104 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,280 face. I mean, that's what Jesus says 105 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:13,920 in Matthew 18 to do. And so, yeah, I guess you learn 106 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:19,120 from your mistakes. You try to be a little more 107 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,560 refined and mature and in dealing with it, but you're 108 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,640 still called to step up because accountability is part of the 109 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,640 body of Christ. Yes, first thing I think of when 110 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,080 I think of saying the hard things is I don't like doing it. 111 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,320 I I see my role in the body of Christ over the years more 112 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,760 exhortive in my ministry, more direct, something that our 113 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:46,160 family is very much our our, our family, my wife, my three kids. 114 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,080 We've always been direct. We can handle it. 115 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,520 We may not like it, but we can handle it. 116 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,840 We want to hear the truth. It might end up being a severe, 117 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,920 a serious discussion that might be end up being a severe 118 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,720 discussion. But we appreciate directness. 119 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,120 We want to deal with things. While I can't say that we're 120 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,760 never passive aggressive, that is not a characteristic of our 121 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,000 family, our home. We're not passive aggressive in 122 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,040 a very general sense. We like direct. 123 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,880 Just tell, tell me how it is. Don't beat around the Bush. 124 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,000 So, but I don't like doing that because that's how God uses me 125 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,480 in the body of Christ. He used me in the body of Christ 126 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,440 just like he does at home. That if you like Bob, if you 127 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,960 asked me my opinion about something, then I'm expecting 128 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,039 you. I'm expecting you to already 129 00:08:36,039 --> 00:08:39,840 process in your mind that when I come to Ed, I know He's going to 130 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,120 give me exactly what I need to hear, even if I don't want to 131 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,560 hear it or he's going to. I trust him, but I want to hear 132 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:48,160 it. And, and, but, and even somebody 133 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,680 coming to me might say I don't want to hear it, but I really do 134 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:52,440 need to hear it. So I will and I'll wrestle. 135 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:54,760 And for me, you got to understand if you're coming to 136 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,280 me, I'm also at the same, I'm probably thinking the same thing 137 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,240 you're thinking. I really don't want to say it. 138 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,560 I really don't want to be the vessel because now I'm going to 139 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:04,040 open myself up. Now you're going to be mad at 140 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,040 me. Now you're going to disagree 141 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,560 with me. Now what? 142 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,400 We were having lunch together yesterday, talking about the 143 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,680 Dodgers, laughing and enjoying. But now you've asked me for my 144 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,360 opinion or my biblical insight, and I already know you're not 145 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,360 going to agree with me or it's going to be hard to receive. 146 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,320 And so my thought is I just don't like doing it. 147 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,760 And I don't mean I don't like doing it as under the Lord. 148 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:33,640 I love, I love being used by God, but I wish sometimes that 149 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,680 there is more because there's other people in my life. 150 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:39,200 Like I know I have people in my life too. 151 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,200 I know they'll give me straight shooters, Boom, boom, boom, 152 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,480 they'll give it to me. But but I also, I prefer to have 153 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,360 people that are encouraging that I'm going to laugh with that. 154 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,600 We're going to joke around. We're going to goof off. 155 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,560 And, and so I think in telling the truth, this is an area, as 156 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:56,240 we've said in a previous episode, that I value highly 157 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,840 because of my past. I really do want to tell the 158 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,840 truth. I want to improve my, my, the 159 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,000 way I do it, of course. But I definitely want you to 160 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:08,600 know I don't want you leaving my presence wondering what I think 161 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,040 wondering like, I don't want if you walk to me with mud on your 162 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,960 shoes, I don't want to add more mud. 163 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,800 I don't want you to walk into the mud with me. 164 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,280 And like now I'm stuck. I want to unstuck you. 165 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,280 But the reality of helping you get unstuck is the truth might 166 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,920 be painful and it might hurt. So my first thought is like, 167 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,400 yeah, this is how God uses me in the body of Christ. 168 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,000 And it is not always well received well. 169 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,240 You did this with me about a year and a half ago. 170 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,120 Oh. And you spoke some hard things 171 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,960 to me because we were getting pretty wrapped up in our 172 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:50,040 situation and and then I spoke a hard word to you and that freed. 173 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,040 Me. To really take it and receive 174 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,640 your hard word actually. Did I receive your hard word? 175 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,040 Yes, you did. I don't remember what it was. 176 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,480 OK, is it podcast worthy or should we wait till afterwards? 177 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:05,760 No, it's fine. Well, actually, yeah, it is 178 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:06,880 podcast worthy. Tell me. 179 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,040 Yeah, I asked you. Do you trust me? 180 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,720 Yes. That I can discern the voice of 181 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,560 the Lord in this matter. Yeah. 182 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,480 You were stern too. I could see I could see a there 183 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,760 was a now and now I remember. Thanks for reminding me because 184 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,760 it was a hard word and and I'm and and that that really is 185 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:31,240 really good for the topic today because I enter into that 186 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,360 discussion with you with authority that the Lord's given 187 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:40,560 to me, but also respect like it is hard. 188 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,800 You have more experience than I do. 189 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,600 You are older than me. So you're as an elder to me, as 190 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,280 a father to me that to have to step into that and and I'm 191 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,400 confident. I was confident in what I was 192 00:11:54,400 --> 00:12:00,880 sharing and I was confident, but you might have felt that I don't 193 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,920 trust you because you may come to a different conclusion than 194 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,440 the word I have. And then we'll have to deal with 195 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,720 that like, because that's really what it was like. 196 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,320 Do you really trust me? No, I'm not not for a moment 197 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,880 that I not trust you, but my delivery may have sent that 198 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:20,440 message to you that hey, I I or I you know, remembering the 199 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,640 situation now that maybe you've it could feel like because of 200 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:29,680 the sternness of my mice word with you that you could feel 201 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:32,440 like I was trying to take authority over you when I just 202 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,720 wanted to help you. And I remember I remember I'm a 203 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,680 fate I'm AI have, although grief has messed that messed it up a 204 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:41,240 little bit. I have a photographic memory. 205 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,120 And when you said that I remember your face and your I 206 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:45,480 remember it like it was yesterday. 207 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,960 Once you said it like, yeah, he was that was stern Bob. 208 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,560 The Lord was able, so he was able to work it out like he he 209 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,240 led you into into the decision that you needed to make and how 210 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,360 you needed to make it. Yeah, that was that was hard. 211 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,840 I don't I don't prefer doing that personally. 212 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:07,680 I wish I could be the Joker. Happy. 213 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,200 Yeah, it's uncomfortable. Yeah, it is uncomfortable. 214 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:14,840 It is, and that's where we can't let comfort and convenience be 215 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,280 the gates that we live by all the time. 216 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:23,200 We we just have to. Obedience is what God has called 217 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,800 us to do with his voice to us. I mean, we had a situation in 218 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,600 another setting where one family was pretty upset with my wife 219 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:40,480 and they chose after service to take her upstairs and just rail 220 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,880 on her. Just rail on her for like half 221 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,360 an hour. I didn't even know where she was 222 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,320 and I didn't know what was going on, but I knew afterwards 223 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,400 because she came down crying and, and you can't, you know, 224 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,440 just overwhelmed and and then I had to deal with my own 225 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:01,400 reaction. And yeah, it's life is that way. 226 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,360 I mean, we're being worked on. And this is the way of the Lord 227 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,360 that and we remembering this, especially in the place of 228 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,760 servanthood. You want to be a better serving, 229 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,600 you want to be more useful in someone's life. 230 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,760 These are key elements that are important and they go contrary, 231 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,520 especially for those of us that were saved a little bit later in 232 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,520 life. Raised in the world, raised 233 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:31,240 with, I mean, till I was 23, I was completely, 100% sold out to 234 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,360 whatever philosophy of the world was there. 235 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,480 And there's a lot to choose from, but I would choose 236 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,320 whatever it was that would most suit me in the moment. 237 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,520 I did not know of nor choose the way of Christ. 238 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:49,120 This is contrary to our flesh. I was speaking with a brother 239 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,160 recently about the flesh. He was talking about a situation 240 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,720 and I said it might make it easier if we use biblical terms 241 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,680 instead of the term you're using right now. 242 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,720 Let's just call it what it is, your flesh. 243 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,960 It's your flesh and and flesh doesn't necessarily mean 244 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:08,000 completely rebellious sin. It a brother. 245 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,640 I don't recommend this author anymore, but one of the phrases 246 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,120 that because he went off and became anybody that gets 247 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,040 involved in the movement of grace, they have a tendency to 248 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,240 go overboard. And this brother went overboard 249 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,720 to a place of universalism. Now, like he was great in the 250 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,640 season that I read of him on the topic of grace and I cleaned 251 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,320 some things, but I can't recommend anymore because he's 252 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,440 he is a universalist. And it's like, why did you like 253 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,200 you should have let the Bible be your guardrails, not your own 254 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,440 philosophy. Different, different podcast 255 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,640 again for another time, but he gave a definition that I will 256 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,440 use forever to help give an angle on the flesh. 257 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:51,080 And he defined the flesh as this, your old sinful habit 258 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,360 patterns. That is a helpful tool in 259 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,360 discerning certain behaviors in your life. 260 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,360 And if you were guilt ridden and beat yourself up all the time 261 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,120 and you carry that into your spiritual born again experience, 262 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,240 that's a fleshly response because God has dealt with that 263 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,720 guilt. He has forgiven you. 264 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,520 He says there's no condemnation. So you're choosing to not 265 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,120 believe God's word. You're stuck in the flesh and 266 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,520 there's only one remedy you put you make no provision for the 267 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:26,920 flesh. You deal with death bullet of 268 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,280 flesh. You walk in the spirit. 269 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,440 These things are contrary. So when the Bible says speaking 270 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,560 the truth and love, he does it. I was looking in Ephesians. 271 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,520 This is talking about how in Ephesians 4, how God has given 272 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,880 us pastors and teachers for the equipping of the Saints, for the 273 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,880 work of the ministry, edifying of the body of Christ. 274 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,720 We're coming to the unity of the faith, the knowledge of the Son 275 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,080 of God, the perfect man to the measure, and the stature of the 276 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,920 fullness of Christ, so that we're not any longer tossed to 277 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,440 and fro as kids by every wind of doctrine. 278 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,040 Then we're speaking the truth and love this. 279 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,280 This is in contrast to who we were. 280 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:12,160 That's why it becomes so hard because the essence of as I'm 281 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,599 thinking this out loud is here's my problem. 282 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,000 If I think about myself, I will waver. 283 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,040 What will you think about me, Bob? 284 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,760 I mean that's now that you bring back that situation. 285 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,720 It was just a dilemma. It wasn't even a big sinful 286 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,280 situation. It was just a dilemma. 287 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,560 Season of life, season in your life. 288 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,520 It wasn't anything sinful. I went on, we're on give the 289 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,440 details of it, but I remember it. 290 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,240 It wasn't like OK, Bob begging you not to send it wasn't that. 291 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,960 However, it was hard enough where OK, Bob, you asked my you 292 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,640 asked for me. You asked for my insight. 293 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,360 You trust me on it. I'm going to share it with you. 294 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,760 But like you could be so you could be offended at what I say 295 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,680 that this may be a turning point. 296 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,160 I could could be a negative turning point in our life. 297 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,760 It could be a very positive. But because, you know, people 298 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,520 put, people like to put people in categories. 299 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,960 Optimist, pessimist. You know, if I was given those 300 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,800 two choices, I would say I'm, I'm an optimist. 301 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,280 Marie would say I'm a pessimist, which is where you create a 302 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,920 third category. And I would say, no, no, no, 303 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,280 honey. I'm a realist, which probably 304 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,640 leans toward pessimism, pragmatism, so that when I 305 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,800 assess a situation, if I only assess it in my own wisdom, I'm 306 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,960 like, you know what? I'd rather why is he asking me 307 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,600 like because if I tell him something hard, he's going to 308 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,520 get mad at me. And now you know it's going to 309 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,200 end up now I know your character. 310 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,680 I know it's not going to happen because I've watched you and 311 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,400 I've seen you. I've observed your life. 312 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,880 But the enemy we he has devices, he has schemes and I would just 313 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,480 rather I just want a peaceful life. 314 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,320 I don't want more problems and more people mad at me and I and 315 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,000 it's just a real emotion for me. I even in my marriage, like if 316 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,160 Marie and I are in a good season and like I why would I want her 317 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:10,040 mad at me or upset, or why would I want to say like who in the 318 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,320 world would want that? That's human that if so, if I 319 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:18,760 think of myself, I'm going to shy away from this, but if I 320 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,760 think of the Lord and I think of you and I do unto others as 321 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:28,240 Jesus said the way I want you, then I am going to tell you the 322 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,600 truth which leads us and we we have a few minutes left in the 323 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,680 episode to segue into the how that's important. 324 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:42,200 So the reality of I'll briefly take us back to the discussion 325 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:46,640 when I'm in a discussion with you in particular with Bob and 326 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,640 Jeannie. I'm entering in with respect and 327 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,560 I'm entering in valuing what the Bible says. 328 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,480 You're my elder. You are obviously you're a man 329 00:19:58,480 --> 00:19:59,960 of God. You're my elder. 330 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,920 I want to do it with respect. I'm, I want to do it with just 331 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,160 respect, just on the human realm, on the spiritual, but 332 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,280 also like I'm, I don't know who I am. 333 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:11,920 I mean, I'm not anything special. 334 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,840 I'm not any better than you. You're not any better than me. 335 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,240 But I want to be able to do it. And one of the tools just before 336 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,320 you get to yours is one of the tools that I have developed over 337 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,960 the years. And I'll do it. 338 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,240 I do it when I do the live radio broadcast. 339 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,000 I do it after service when I'm sensing something is I will look 340 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,720 you in the eye and I say, are you OK? 341 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,000 If I say something really hard to you, Are you ready? 342 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,520 And that gives you the option if you want to keep going. 343 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,360 And if you say yes, then directly and indirectly you've 344 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:44,920 invited me to say the hard thing because I told you it's going to 345 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,480 be hard. That has proven to be very, very 346 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,440 helpful because on one occasion, at least one time, I can 347 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,320 remember somebody saying, no, I don't want to hear that right 348 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,800 now. OK, well understand, I'm here. 349 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:59,080 I and if this isn't the right timing because it could, it 350 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,960 doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to hear it at all. 351 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,280 I'm not reading anything into it except in that moment. 352 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,400 No, they don't want to hear it and it's probably not the right 353 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,080 timing for them. So just in some of the ways that 354 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,560 you think delivering over the years, the how, how, how do you 355 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,240 deliver hard things? Well, you do it face to face and 356 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:25,120 you do it in a setting that's not building up like a a group 357 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:28,680 of people, you know, where you say, let let's get together and 358 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,800 talk about this. And you've got a whole thing set 359 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,960 up where you've got a whole crew of people in the room waiting 360 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,400 for that person to come in. I mean, it's, it's in love is 361 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,360 the issue. Love is considering. 362 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,000 How can I help them receive this in the best way? 363 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,280 And I mean it, it could be, it could not be the best way, but 364 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,160 at the time you think it's the best way. 365 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,520 But it it comes back to Galatians chapter 6 verses one 366 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,600 through 5 in the new living. It says, dear brothers and 367 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,120 sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who 368 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:10,400 are godly in the the King James, new King James says spiritual 369 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,560 should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right 370 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,240 path. Be careful not to fall into the 371 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,200 same temptation yourself. Share each other's burdens and 372 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,480 in this way obey the law of Christ, which is the law of 373 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,440 love. If you think you are too 374 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,400 important to help someone, you are only fooling yourself. 375 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,320 You are not that important. Pay. 376 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,000 A great, great praise. Pay careful attention to your 377 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,960 own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well 378 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,640 done before the Lord. And you won't need to compare 379 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,080 yourself to anyone else, for we are each responsible for our own 380 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,520 conduct. Yeah, that's so good. 381 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,080 I was thinking of First Corinthians 13 from the New 382 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,160 living. If we're going to do it in love, 383 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,080 timing is always important. Face to face, if it's an 384 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,840 offensive thing or it's a hard thing, sometimes I have found 385 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,200 that somebody will text me something that stirs up and and 386 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,920 a face to face is impossible. So I just pick up the phone. 387 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,200 There's a lot more texting can be used for one thing. 388 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,440 E-mail, a little bit more phone call, a little bit more face to 389 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,320 face is always the best. It's always the best, but it's 390 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,120 not always available. I think that the motive is most 391 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,560 important. And texting an e-mail is so 392 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,160 limited in that as you're crafting it, you have an inward 393 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,320 dialogue that you're answering while you're especially the hard 394 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,120 emails, but you're making up the other side. 395 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,960 You don't want to answer something that you make up. 396 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,920 You want to be able to talk about it and you know, you want 397 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,680 to be able to look at and face to face gives me your eyes, 398 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,920 gives me your body. It gives me your all, all that 399 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,400 your presence, the that you can sense the presence of the Holy 400 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,880 Spirit. You can sense whether you 401 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,960 receive something from me and I need to backtrack or I need to 402 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,160 ask. OK, Bob, I, I can, I can sense 403 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,360 we're uncomfortable right now. Can I say something hard to you 404 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:12,720 know, I don't want to hear one more hard thing. 405 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,800 OK, well, let's pray and let's do it another time. 406 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,400 Like that's hard to pick up. You can get it in the tone of 407 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,080 voice on the phone sometimes, but with the way that the delay 408 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:28,440 is on cell phones, sometimes you talk over each other and you're 409 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,640 not able to let them finish the last two thoughts or two words 410 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,920 because the delay didn't work or it's it makes it hard. 411 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,480 Well, face to face you can also see the the the muscles clench 412 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,320 on the side of the face or the. Rolling of the eyes. 413 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:45,200 Oh. My gosh. 414 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,120 The rolling of the eyes is never fun, but in love and that the 415 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:55,120 essence for me, even though I I prefer not to do it, I will do 416 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,760 it because it's a matter of obedience and it's also a matter 417 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,560 not just in love how, but in love because, because I love you 418 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,280 like I love the Lord with all my heart, soul and mind. 419 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,520 He's put me in this place. He's brought you in my life. 420 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,200 I get to tell you the truth in love and I want to be the best 421 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,680 at it. I want because I have your best 422 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,640 interests at heart. I'm not just doing it cuz I have 423 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,000 to do it and I'm not just doing it so I can get it over. 424 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,240 I'm doing it because God has put me in your life so that I can 425 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,960 help you In converse, God's put you in my life. 426 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,560 So now I need to receive in love, which is a whole different 427 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:31,720 side. But for us, if we're going to 428 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,920 serve well, as we've spoken in a previous episode, we need to be 429 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,640 honest. We need to be real. 430 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,360 We need to be ourselves, but then we also have to do it. 431 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:45,680 Say the hard thing and 1st Corinthians 13 says love is 432 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,240 patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful 433 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,560 or proud. Love is not rude, it does not 434 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,240 demand its own way, is not irritable. 435 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,160 It keeps no record of wrong. It doesn't rejoice about 436 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,080 injustice, but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 437 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:10,160 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful and 438 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,920 endures through every circumstance. 439 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,400 The church will be so much healthier, Your own personal 440 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,040 ministry will be much healthier if you just say the hard things. 441 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,600 Say the hard things and the way you do it. 442 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,920 Sometimes my wife will say the hard things without saying 443 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,720 anything at all. Not too long ago on two 444 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,320 occasions. Because she can get closer to me 445 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,360 than most people can than anybody can, quite frankly. 446 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:38,520 I mean, she can get closer than anybody can. 447 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,120 And, and I don't know where we were. 448 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:43,800 I'm trying to think where we were, but she just handed me a 449 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,680 mint. She wasn't, she didn't say 450 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,440 anything. Just handed me a mint. 451 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,560 And I'm like, OK, she might be doing this out of the 452 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,160 benevolence of her heart and being kind. 453 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,480 And she only has a couple pieces left and she wants me to share 454 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:05,840 with her minty gum or I have bad breath and she can sense it 455 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,120 because and she and because she did it twice. 456 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,400 I'm pretty confident that it was a bad breath day. 457 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,480 And she was sharing. She was doing the hard thing. 458 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,400 She was helping me out without having to say anything, without 459 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,800 ever do anything, just coming alongside to help me out because 460 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,880 it's, it is out of relationship. And I that that is something we 461 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,880 need to take into consideration as well. 462 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,240 How we deliver the truth will be directly related to how much 463 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,280 equity we have in someone's life. 464 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,240 How much do they trust us? How much like how, how close are 465 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,600 we? If the closer the relationship, 466 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:49,240 the more in depth that you can take the truth and deliver it, 467 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,040 the farther they are. You may not have the equity to 468 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,120 take them that deep. And maybe sharing the truth of 469 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:59,240 them is giving them a series of questions to ask so that they 470 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,480 can be open to the work of the Holy Spirit in that. 471 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,520 Because the Holy Spirit ultimately is the ones going to 472 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,800 reveal the truth to them anyway. He's the Spirit of the truth 473 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,280 going to lead them into all truth. 474 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,520 The Bible says we're just a tool. 475 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,000 But sometimes, and in the conversation directly related, 476 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,720 we can deliver the truth immediately and it can be 477 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,440 received. And all that's necessary now is 478 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,160 the Holy Spirit confirms it. Or even better, you know, Bob 479 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,600 goes out on a walk on Tuesday, talks to Ed on Wednesday and Ed 480 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,000 only confirms the Spirit of God in Ed confirms what God already 481 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,120 said Tuesday morning and the reality of saying the hard 482 00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,160 things. OK, that's the end of our 483 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,320 episode again today. We've come to the end. 484 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,080 We want to keep these in. We want to honor your time. 485 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,120 We want to honor the time limit. So we want we could go on and 486 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,560 on. This is a great conversation. 487 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,680 Maybe you want to add to the conversation. 488 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:57,080 You can always go to the website edtaylor.org. 489 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,680 We post these episodes with a summary after the fact and you 490 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,080 can comment on the blog post if you want. 491 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,560 You can re listen to it. The feedback that we really want 492 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,240 is if the podcast is blessing you leave a favorable review. 493 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,320 It helps a lot in its rankings, which then help a lot in getting 494 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,000 it before fresh eyes. People looking for this type of 495 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,800 podcast that don't know anything about us and for those of you 496 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,280 that have joined the Lead to Serve team and family just 497 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,880 recently because of reviews and because the algorithms welcome. 498 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,520 I am glad that you're with us. We are in Season 6 of Lead to 499 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,080 Serve and we want to help you grow in your servanthood and 500 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,400 leadership. The topic today was saying the 501 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,960 hard things and we're always open to your feedback. 502 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:52,360 Show ideas. You can text us 720608 001 two 503 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:59,960 720-608-0012 or you can e-mail ed@edtaylor.org. 504 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,800 Ed at at taylor.org. Pastor Bob Clay Camp. 505 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,960 He also has a website you contact him through his personal 506 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:12,240 website bobclaycamp.com. We are here at Calvary Church 507 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,480 and you want anything to do with our church here. 508 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,000 You can download the app that we have just put my name in your 509 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,440 search bar of the App Store. Ed Taylor and the church Apple 510 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,760 pop up. Our website is Calvary Co dot 511 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,760 church, but we love to develop a relationship with you, 512 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,720 mentoring, teaching, equipping. That's our heart. 513 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,200 We feel an obligation here at Calvary to pour into other 514 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,480 churches, to pour into those that want to serve the Lord, to 515 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,160 pour into pastors and we are here to serve you any way that 516 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,440 we can. We have a team of pastors here 517 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,320 that are here to help serve, pray, encourage, support, fill a 518 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,560 pulpit if you need it, if we can do it, and so much more. 519 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,960 And we would love to connect with you. 520 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,400 This is again the Lead to Serve podcast. 521 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,200 We'll post another episode next week. 522 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,800 Until then, the Lord bless you, encourage you, and strengthen 523 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,760 you. Thank you for joining us for 524 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,000 this episode of Lead to Serve with Pastor Ed Taylor, a 525 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,240 leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Co. 526 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,600 If you have a leadership question you want to hear 527 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,960 answered on a future Lead to Serve podcast, please e-mail it 528 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,560 to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co dot church. 529 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,200 And if you like our podcast, please subscribe, rate or review 530 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,360 us on iTunes and share us with your friends on social media. 531 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,560 Thanks again for joining us, and we'll see you next time right 532 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,680 here on the Lead to Serve podcast.