1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,280 Here's Ed Taylor with today's episode of Lead to Serve, a 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,680 leadership podcast. Hey, welcome again to another 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,520 episode of the Lead to Serve podcast originating right here 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:22,240 at Calvary Church in Aurora, Co. We want you to connect with us, 5 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:25,360 by the way, with us through the church. 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:33,120 Calvary Co dot Church is our website, Calvary Co dot Church, 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,000 and we're a resourcing ministry. So if we can help you, if we can 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,200 serve you, if we can encourage you, the Lead to Serve podcast 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:46,160 is a outgrowth, if you will, an overflow of the ministry here. 10 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,320 I was thinking as even sitting in the studio here today with 11 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,120 Pastor Bob Klaykamp, there is such a huge team of men and 12 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,480 women that are serving both. Of course, we have a team here 13 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,040 that's on staff, that's paid staff and we're grateful for 14 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,760 that. But I know some pastors 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,360 listening in don't have that. But we have way more volunteers 16 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,680 and servants that are doing what God's called them to do that are 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,440 that are making it possible for this podcast to be recorded. 18 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,320 So we just want to acknowledge you, you're, you guys listening 19 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:20,000 in are part of that team. And I want to acknowledge and 20 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,720 thank you for your faithfulness and listening in. 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,440 There will be times where we're talking and there'll be a 22 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,760 response whether it's said out loud or not. 23 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,360 Well, you know, you guys are a bigger church and we're not. 24 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:37,480 But I want to help you with that concept because yes, that's a 25 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,800 possibility. We may have more people to serve 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:46,120 than you have to serve, but the problems are still here. 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,160 We we go through the same things you go through. 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,400 We face the same things you face. 29 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,080 It's just proportionate. So there may be unique things, 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,000 and I just feel like maybe this is a word from Lord. 31 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,160 I know this is the introduction of the podcast, but let's just 32 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,560 jump right in. The reality is that you may have 33 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,760 unique problems that are related to a fellowship that has less 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,680 people there. That's possible, but we then 35 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,960 have unique issues related to having more people. 36 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,200 It's just proportionate. We're in this together and we 37 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,320 want to be in this together. That's why we put this podcast 38 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,160 together. Pastors, church planters, 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:29,360 elders, deacons, Sunday school teachers, moms, dads, UPS 40 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,960 drivers, FedEx drivers, those of you that work at Walmart 41 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,400 faithfully and Target, and those of you that are engineers and 42 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,160 rocket scientists and doctors and dentists all across the 43 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,880 board. We all can learn how to be 44 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,600 better servants in the Lord, no matter where He has us, because 45 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,000 that's our goal. Our goal is to be good servant 46 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,080 leaders because I know the better we serve the Lord, the 47 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,240 better leader we become. And again, this is season 6 Lead 48 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,280 to Serve podcast in studio with me, 30 plus years of ministry 49 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,280 experience. Pastor Bob Klaykamp, welcome 50 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:07,080 again. Good. 51 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,600 Great to be here. Having these conversations about 52 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,240 ministry, having conversations about life, the last few topics 53 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,800 that kind of go together. We were talking a couple weeks 54 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,520 ago about balance and how I think we need to get rid of that 55 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,240 word and replace it. Then we talked about last time 56 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,040 the need for a new definition of success and, and I think there 57 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,480 was an agreement that we need to get that definition from the 58 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,880 Word of God. And the Word of God says that 59 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,280 faithfulness. Jesus said faithfulness is the 60 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,680 measure of success. Today we want to talk about 61 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:49,040 feelings of failure, handling feelings of failure. 62 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,120 And again, a definition of failure is important. 63 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,680 It's interesting, Bob, that I'm just using the dictionary that's 64 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,280 on my MacBook here on the definition. 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,840 The number one definition of failure is lack of success. 66 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,680 So that if we were to use the definition this way and let the 67 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,800 Bible define that, then failure would be a lack of faithfulness. 68 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,200 However, that's not quite where we want to go with the episode 69 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,640 today because there are many people listening to us right 70 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,360 now. Many, many, many that have in 71 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:30,440 the past or currently now or will in the future feel like a 72 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,160 failure. Like I'm just no good. 73 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,800 I just don't do anything good. I don't do anything right. 74 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,480 I'll never be good at this. I've been this way my whole 75 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,880 life. I was a failure as a kid. 76 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:50,080 I'm a, this sense of almost like taking a mistake or a willing 77 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,440 failure, maybe a sinful failure, whatever, and associating it 78 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,360 with the whole element, the whole area of man, I just, I'm 79 00:04:58,360 --> 00:04:59,560 just never going to get it right. 80 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:05,960 I, I don't do anything right and it goes from failure to shame. 81 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,040 So what are your thoughts as we start about talking about 82 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:15,200 failure feelings? That feeling of lack of worth 83 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,440 because you have set up expectations for yourselves, 84 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:25,800 goals for yourself that in your mind or maybe somebody put it on 85 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,960 you, your parents put it on you and you can't make the grade. 86 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,400 And, and you're looking at all those things on the horizontal 87 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:40,160 to defer, to define your worth, and you're forgetting how Jesus 88 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,400 sees you. And it all keeps going back to 89 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,040 that. And even times when we do 90 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,320 something and it just collapses, it's no surprise to God because 91 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,000 because he's all knowledge, he knows even the choices we're 92 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,040 going to make. And then they say, well, why 93 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,160 didn't he stop me? If he knew, if he knew it was 94 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,920 going to go bad, why don't he stop me? 95 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:04,760 Well, obviously he's chosen to use it to teach us something. 96 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,560 And sometimes we're, we're so concerned about doing everything 97 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,440 right the first time, we miss the whole reality of training 98 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,640 and discipline. As Hebrews 12 says, it's I was 99 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,960 looking up about Thomas Edison and, and I read this in response 100 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,120 to a question about his missteps. 101 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,520 Edison once said, I have not failed 10,000 times. 102 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,520 I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work. 103 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,360 And so I mean, there are times this is a whole preparation for 104 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,040 heaven. We are here and God wants to 105 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:45,160 even use our missteps, our failures to work them into of 106 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,800 the success plan that he has for us. 107 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:53,160 Even the dark pieces of our life that we are so ashamed of. 108 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,280 And what, what was I thinking? How could I have done that? 109 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,800 Those are part of God's mosaics that he wants to take those dark 110 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:07,840 pieces and make his own mosaic because the dark pieces provide 111 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,200 perspective in depth in a in a mosaic. 112 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,000 If you just had nothing but white pieces or light colored 113 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,120 pieces, sometimes it's a bit bland, but the dark pieces 114 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,160 provide the perspective. And so rather than focusing on, 115 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,320 I don't want to be a failure, I don't want to be a failure, you 116 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:32,480 focus on, I want to do the best I can with the knowledge I have 117 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,480 and the information I have, knowing that I could sabotage it 118 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:41,600 in a second. And so I need to now just do my 119 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,760 best and know the Lord is is in charge. 120 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,720 It's important that we come back to a couple things that you just 121 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,360 said for the sake of those listening and are thinking, 122 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,880 well, this is my life right now. I have failed. 123 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,680 I failed someone. I failed at something. 124 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,640 We need to come back to the beginning of our walk with the 125 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,920 Lord when we didn't know anything. 126 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,440 There had to be a point in your time. 127 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,920 That's why I want to take you back to when you didn't know 128 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:21,680 anything about anything. You even forgot the service 129 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,160 times at your local church that you had to pull out the 130 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,800 bulletin, which you didn't even know what was a bulletin. 131 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,640 You just took it out because you knew it had information that was 132 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,240 given to you. You didn't even know what a 133 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,120 bulletin was. You didn't even understand what 134 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,600 announcements were or what worship music is. 135 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,240 And I don't mean that you don't get the concept of them, but 136 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,760 they didn't have the kind of meaning that they have today 137 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,760 because everything was so brand new. 138 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,400 Your mindset back there, and this is what you said, Bob, was 139 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,680 we forget about the training and the discipleship and the 140 00:08:56,680 --> 00:08:59,720 learning part of our relationship with the Lord. 141 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,960 At that point in the beginning, whether we knew it or not, it 142 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,920 was all learning. Everything was new. 143 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,920 I shared recently with our church when I was teaching that 144 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,040 when I was born again, I didn't own a Bible. 145 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,800 So that was the beginning. That was the starting point with 146 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,720 me. I did not own a Bible. 147 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,520 There wasn't a Bible in my house. 148 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:29,080 And I could care less until I was born again and the pastor 149 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,880 said you should have a Bible. Oh, I better go get a Bible. 150 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,600 I went down to the local Bible bookstore and I asked the guy, 151 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,120 Hey, I just got saved and I need a Bible. 152 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,120 Oh, that we just got these in these are the Bibles. 153 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,920 This is the new popular one. This is the one I've said that. 154 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,040 Are you sure that's the And so I, I got two of them. 155 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,320 I bought one for Marie and one for me in different colors and 156 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,880 leather bound. And if this is the Bible and 157 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,080 then this is it. Well, I take it home and I'm 158 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,840 reading it and we're reading it like because the pastor told us 159 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,600 to read it and it was not a good Bible. 160 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,920 I didn't. So I didn't know there were bad 161 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,040 Bibles and good Bibles. I mean, this is my it was a 162 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:16,080 Bible that was mistranslated and gender neutral and it was, it 163 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,440 was the beginning of progressive liberalism in that season. 164 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,240 And and somebody pointed out to me, I'm like, I don't even I am 165 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,160 so new. I mean, I had other descriptive 166 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,520 words for myself, but let's keep it at I'm so new that I don't 167 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,880 even know what kind of Bible. I can't even get that right. 168 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,960 However, I didn't I don't recall beating myself up and quitting 169 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,600 and I'm going to walk away. I'm just like, I better figure 170 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,080 out. I better get the right Bible. 171 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,640 I and the the attitude was I have a lot to learn. 172 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,440 I have a lot to learn. I have a lot to learn. 173 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:53,600 Bob. I don't know when that stopped, 174 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,880 but it stopped somewhere. It stopped somewhere, maybe on 175 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,640 one topic or another topic and began to accumulate where well, 176 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,640 I don't need to learn so much anymore because I know, I know, 177 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,240 I know that Scripture, I know that verse. 178 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,480 I know that what, wherever it might be and it suddenly gets 179 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,520 replaced. I, I see it as well. 180 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,760 So we, I don't want to forget the training discipleship 181 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,160 because we're always learning, always learning. 182 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,600 So I, you've been walking with the Lord 50 plus years. 183 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,480 If I remember correctly, I've been walking with the Lord 30 184 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,400 plus years. We are still learning and still 185 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,360 making mistakes and still blowing it. 186 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,040 And, and we're not even talking about major sin. 187 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:33,920 I mean, it's not like disqualifying sin. 188 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,640 I don't mean that, but you could recover even from that in many 189 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,400 ways to keep your walk with the Lord strong. 190 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,920 I'm just talking about, you know, maybe mishandling a 191 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,800 situation, saying something wrong, thinking something wrong, 192 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,360 just life, not not just all the expectations. 193 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,360 And I, I, I appreciate and I want you guys to listen and 194 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:01,720 remember that you're still learning, you're still growing. 195 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:07,040 It doesn't matter how old you are. 6080 I mentioned again in a 196 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:12,720 recent Bible study, Bob, that a church needs to teach the Bible 197 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,480 verse by verse chapter. They don't need to you just use 198 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:17,880 it. They don't need to just 199 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,120 reference it. They don't need just to distill 200 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,120 topics from it. We've been taught and IA 100% 201 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:29,040 agree and now teach others. We need to teach the Bible whole 202 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:34,640 thing I am sharing with why we started, why we have a radio 203 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,200 station in Denver, why we have teaching on all the time and 204 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,440 there was a sister that came up that reference. 205 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,280 She's she was wanting to let me know that in the Bible teaching 206 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,680 of our church, whether I'm in the pulpit or other someone's 207 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:52,240 there in my place, that she's learned more in six months than 208 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,760 she has in the previous. And you fill in the but I forget 209 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,400 how many years she said that she was in another a mainline 210 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,840 denominational church. I hear that all the time. 211 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,080 That did what I said they they have the Bible as a prop and 212 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:09,840 have bibles but not not what is needed for spiritual growth. 213 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:16,160 And it takes a lot for a 6070 year old person to say I think I 214 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,200 need to learn. Failures have a lot to teach us, 215 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:26,160 but I also believe as we're about halfway through today, 216 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:31,720 like I also believe, Bob, that we have not only a new, we need 217 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,320 to have a new definition of failure, but we need to not 218 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,680 explain it away. It's important that we admit 219 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:47,680 that we fail, and it it's not something that we can get away 220 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:51,520 from if we're trying, we'll I guess the only way to never fail 221 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,560 is to never do anything. But then that in and of itself 222 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,400 is a failure of not being faithful to the Lord. 223 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,720 But we can't avoid failure without failing. 224 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,480 What do you think about? That I think you it's just going 225 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:12,040 to be a part of our lesson our our life lesson here in 226 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,080 preparation for heaven. I mean, Joshua did everything 227 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,280 right. He couldn't control somebody 228 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,480 stealing stuff from from Jericho. 229 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:27,200 He had no idea. And when everything fell apart 230 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,600 because Aiken stole the the gold and the garments and all that 231 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,560 and silver and hid them, Joshua had no clue. 232 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,160 Well, it ended up being a failure, but the Lord said, OK, 233 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,600 deal with it, own it, find out who it is, deal with it. 234 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:51,160 And then humbly, what it did is it made them more aware than 235 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,120 they ever would have been before. 236 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,600 And so God has this way of taking our failure when we own 237 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,800 it and present it to him. That's a part of confession. 238 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,600 That's a part of humbling yourself before the Lord and 239 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:12,080 being reminded that you're not all that you're, you're, you're 240 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:17,440 just dependent upon him. Then what? 241 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:23,680 He's he's not out to come to condemn you and to put you under 242 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,160 condemnation. He he's, he's like a good coach, 243 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,400 you might say, you know, who wants to take OK, you're running 244 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,280 in a way that's going to you're never going to get a medal here 245 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,800 the way you're running. So we're going to have to change 246 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,480 the way you're running be and and it feels awkward at 1st and 247 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:47,360 but yet he knows best. And so with the Lord, even 248 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:52,400 though we set our goals and we set our preferences and we set 249 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,240 what we think it looks like or should look like, we have to 250 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,840 really submit all that and say, you know, Lord, I am who I am 251 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,640 and I am your workmanship, not my workmanship. 252 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,920 I want to work with you, not against you. 253 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,080 The workmanship say that out loud so some it needs to be 254 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,720 repeated. We are his workmanship, not our 255 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,840 workmanship. I think of in the world of 256 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,960 pastors, there's this pressure. It's it comes both ways. 257 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:25,080 It comes, you know, really on over the top by by people on the 258 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,800 platform or whatever, like just displaying all the they define 259 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,080 success as a big church or a big budget. 260 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,440 And that's their that's the world in which they're living. 261 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,920 And whether they're doing it on purpose or not, it's not not, 262 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,160 not for not for us to judge. It's just happening where it 263 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,400 seems like only those of big churches get platformed and only 264 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,000 those of big churches are the successful ones. 265 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,240 And I think big, you know, in our world for taking our cues in 266 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,200 the world, big is always better. More is always better. 267 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,080 And it, you know, that's who gets the attention on Instagram 268 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,720 of the millions of followers. I mean, are they really millions 269 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,720 of following? What does that mean exactly? 270 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,480 It just means the world's built on popularity and they want to 271 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,280 sell stuff. So, you know, the more bigger 272 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,119 the number, the more they can sell and make money. 273 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,040 It's all but not in the in the church. 274 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:18,440 It's it's just such a backward approach to life and ministry. 275 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,960 If you follow the Bible, at least it feels that way. 276 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,280 It's really not backward at all. It's God's way. 277 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,880 But with since we're in the world and we're living in the 278 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,960 world, it feels like, yeah. This is just so counter into how 279 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,000 we were taught. If if you were educated in the 280 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,960 school system, you went through the education system college 281 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,520 wise, this is not the colleges are not teaching the Bible. 282 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,240 So you're, yeah, you're, you're going to receive, receive, 283 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,640 receive, receive. And then you're reading the 284 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,920 Bible and you're like, man, what Jesus just said doesn't that's 285 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,920 so different. Like it's so different. 286 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,000 How, how, how do I learn about Jesus? 287 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,560 How do I learn? I'm worrying so much. 288 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,960 How do I learn about worry? I don't understand. 289 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,400 And Jesus answer, go to the doctor and and spend, you know, 290 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,640 10 years in counseling. That's how you can deal with 291 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,360 your worry. No, that's not what he said. 292 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,680 He said, oh, here. I can almost hear, you know, 293 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:09,880 come here. Come here. 294 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:10,960 Like what? What? 295 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,520 What? You see the birds? 296 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:14,640 Yeah. What is birds? 297 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,680 What do you mean birds? I see the birds or what? 298 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,680 Yeah, what? I just want you to notice 299 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,160 something. They're not worried. 300 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,640 Everything they're taking, everything they ever need is 301 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,320 taken care of. I want you to pay attention to 302 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:26,480 the birds. That's how you can deal with 303 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:27,960 worry. Oh, come on. 304 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,280 Oh, but that he he says, oh, you don't. 305 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:31,920 You don't believe me? No, no, I don't. 306 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,400 No, no, no. I got a Cam. 307 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,120 I'm worried about not even understanding it. 308 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:37,840 Well, here, let's take a walk. Why? 309 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:38,880 When are you going to explain it? 310 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,640 Just walk with me. Calm down. 311 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,080 Just walk with me. You can almost hear Jesus 312 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,680 saying, look at the flowers. Oh, we're not going to do that 313 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,440 again. Now just look at the flowers. 314 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,880 Look at how beautiful they are. You know, Solomon, everyone in 315 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,800 Solomon's court wasn't didn't look as good as those flowers 316 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,800 and what they had to do to look good. 317 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,880 Those flowers do nothing. They just are. 318 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,920 And for us, you know, we're in our best place when we just are 319 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,200 not when we're doing something. And that sense of failure, you 320 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,080 know, again, one of the things and I want to bring out one more 321 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,360 thing, Bob, that you said that's so powerful. 322 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:23,120 I want you to talk to it. But I, I think of one of the 323 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:27,280 verses that I memorized early on in my walk with the Lord was in 324 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:33,080 the Proverbs where it says a righteous man may fall 7 times 325 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,640 and rise again, but the wicked shall fall by calamity. 326 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,400 So right away I don't want to be the wicked. 327 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,840 But then if I'm righteous and I'm falling, I'm going to get 328 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,160 back up. And you had mentioned in your 329 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,400 notes on this topic, you mentioned that this is a this 330 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,080 feeling of failure seems to be more prevalent in two 331 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,840 personality types, those that are melancholy and those that 332 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,240 are perfectionists. What are your thoughts on that? 333 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:13,080 I think that God is the one who creates our personality and 334 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,680 there are personalities that are absolutely a blessing when 335 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,400 they're controlled by the Holy Spirit. 336 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,600 When they're in the flesh, they're oppressive and they're 337 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,440 not beneficial at all, both to the individual and to those 338 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,960 around them. Melancholy makes you highly 339 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,680 sensitive to things. Perfectionism. 340 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:44,480 You're, you're so focused on detail that you and, and 341 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,360 everything being exactly right that you don't get any work 342 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,320 done. I mean, you don't hire a Finnish 343 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,120 Carpenter to frame a house because it'll never get done. 344 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,880 And you don't hire a rough framer to do cabinet work 345 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,480 because they'll be rosettes because they're just trying to 346 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:07,680 get it up there. And so the key is be who you are 347 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:14,400 controlled by the Holy Spirit, whether you're a, a 348 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:23,360 perfectionist or you're a ADHD or whatever your issues are, 349 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,440 look, just submit yourself who you are to the, to the control 350 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,360 of the Holy Spirit so that it can be a blessing. 351 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,200 Because he'll also, I mean, part of the fruit of the Spirit is 352 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,720 self-control. And so being under the control 353 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,240 of the Holy Spirit means there are times when you don't let 354 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,520 that thing loose. You don't let that horse loose 355 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,320 you, you keep it in the stall because it's not time. 356 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,800 Are you either one of these personalities? 357 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,520 Both of these, I have a melancholy, I'm a musician. 358 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,520 I'm, I'm kind of an artist. And so there's that 359 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,840 perfectionism and that the sense of, you know, I want to do 360 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,920 everything right all the time, and I can't. 361 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,960 I'd probably learn more than melancholy. 362 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,040 Perfectionist was a big part of my life previously, but I think 363 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,720 grief has cut the edge down a little bit on that. 364 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,760 But melancholy for sure. And I see a lot of leaders. 365 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,160 This is these are personality traits that God seems to use 366 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,280 greatly. It almost puts you in a place 367 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,040 of, if you allow it, a place of great dependence upon the Lord. 368 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,200 And these failures are revelant. If you see, if you tend to see 369 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,440 more failure in your life, it means that you're probably doing 370 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,400 a lot, a lot and that you're learning that that God wants you 371 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,040 and me to learn from these to not repeat them again. 372 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,000 But I would agree, I love that statement. 373 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,600 I would agree that the melancholy and perfectionist 374 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,120 personality see a lot more failure, and especially the 375 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,240 perfectionist, which is just really a like a control thing. 376 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,400 You're never really happy. You're never really content with 377 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,560 what you've done. You've done your best, but you 378 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,040 always think you can do better. And you don't know where that 379 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,640 line is to turn it off. And it's funny because with the 380 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,040 perfectionist, you make all these revisions, all these 381 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,120 revisions, and you still make a mistake. 382 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,040 I mean, it should be revealing something. 383 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,040 You keep making mistakes, mistakes, mistakes. 384 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,160 You keep correcting your mistakes, you keep correcting. 385 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:26,600 And it it in, it in and of itself becomes a burden to being 386 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,480 faithful. Well, just think about the 387 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,480 opposite. A type A personality who 388 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,760 steamrolls people because they're they're, they're, 389 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,600 they're just driven. They're driven, they're driven, 390 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,040 they're driven. They, but they end up 391 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,840 steamrolling people and, and, and you need that kind of 392 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,240 strength and leadership when you're in a situation that is 393 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,920 that you have to make the hard call. 394 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,320 But are you in the control of the Holy Spirit or are you just 395 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,240 in the flesh steam rolling people because you went your 396 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,200 way? I mean, it's the same, it's the 397 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,480 same issue. You, you can and then they don't 398 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,520 even know they're doing it. I mean, all of a sudden look 399 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,520 behind them. There's always people flat, you 400 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,440 know, because they've been steamrolled and you go, what's 401 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,640 wrong with them? And and there's nothing to 402 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,600 learn. Yeah, there's a proper way to 403 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,760 deal with our failures too, as we assess them. 404 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,960 I mean, if there's a, if it's a sinful failure, then repentance, 405 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,960 godly sorrow. If it is a practical failure, 406 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,440 then assessment and looking at how we might improve. 407 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,720 But the real solution to these feelings of failures is abiding 408 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,200 in Christ. It's knowing our value and our 409 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,640 worth. In his eyes, it is relational, 410 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,880 not just transactional. And it's a big deal because if 411 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,080 we deal with every, if we handle everything transactionally, 412 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,640 there is no end to that because we can always improve. 413 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,760 We can always be better. But when it becomes relational, 414 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,600 which is how it started back in the day when we didn't know 415 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,920 anything and we are Jesus disciple and we're following him 416 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,320 and we are learning from him. As a matter of fact, Jesus gave 417 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,200 us the command come to me and learn from me. 418 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,080 Failure is going to be one of those teachers or one of those 419 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,160 tools that the master teacher uses. 420 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,640 That place of abiding where I know my worth, I know my value, 421 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,000 I know my joy, I know that Jesus loves me. 422 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,840 He doesn't see me for what I do, He sees me for who I am. 423 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,240 That there is no like slow down and come back to the Lord Paul, 424 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,120 which I think would encompass all the personality types we're 425 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,400 talking about today. He would write to the 426 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,280 Corinthians in Second Corinthians he says, but he who 427 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,640 glories, let him glory in the Lord. 428 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:49,080 And for he who, for not he who commends himself as approved, 429 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,080 but whom the Lord commends. And when you and I come back to 430 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,480 the Lord in that we leave our transactional attitude behind us 431 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,840 and we come back to the Lord relationally, he will commend us 432 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,320 because he loves us and he will encourage us and he will, you 433 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,320 know, even as I I think of an illustration with our kids, I'm 434 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,600 sure you did this, but I help my kids learn how to ride bikes and 435 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,000 they fell off. They fell off. 436 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,680 The last thing I did was run up to him and go what kind of 437 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,680 failure are you? What is your I can't believe. 438 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,480 No, it's OK. You got you did it. 439 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,520 You made a little bit farther. We're going to do it because one 440 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,960 day, I mean one and not even one day very soon on the 3rd or 4th 441 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,720 or 5th or 10th try, I'm going to be holding the seat behind you. 442 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,720 When I let go, you're going to take off because you're going to 443 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,680 get it. And I think that's the Lord's 444 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,000 heart for us. And it doesn't mean we're going 445 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,680 to hit it 100% of the time. But these feelings of failures, 446 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,680 they're normal. You're not an abnormal person 447 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,960 for feeling them, but you don't need to let them become feelings 448 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:54,240 of guilt and shame and, and, and just I'm worthless. 449 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,760 Those are not true. Then you'll be living in the 450 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,520 realm of lies and the enemy will take you away. 451 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,040 Remember feelings. I use the phrase feelings on 452 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,080 purpose because you may have failed, but the feelings of 453 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,840 failure perhaps will assess failure to things that are so 454 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,760 many things that are not failures at all. 455 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,360 They're learning episodes or what I like the phrase I like to 456 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,800 use here is discipleship moment. So just a discipleship moment, 457 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,120 but the feelings, they're real. But remember with your feelings, 458 00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:23,400 they don't always tell you the truth. 459 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,560 We need to yield our feelings to the to the Lord in our prayer 460 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,720 time, in our devotional time, in our moment by moment life with 461 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,720 them. And as we abide in Christ, we 462 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,600 get to draw on his resources, like the phrase that Bob 463 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,880 introduced to us, just serving and living and growing within 464 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:48,120 the grace that God has given to us, the sphere of, of ministry 465 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,040 and life that he has given to us. 466 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,440 And, and so if you're feeling like failure, and I'll just take 467 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,800 it to the Lord, if you want prayer or insight or more 468 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,960 resources on this, e-mail me ed@edtaylor.org because we're 469 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,120 coming up at the end of the program today as we finish 470 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:10,320 another episode. But these are heavy things that 471 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,800 1/2 hour of discussion isn't going to completely solve. 472 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,360 But perhaps the Holy Spirit will use it to sow seeds of hope into 473 00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:20,480 your heart that you're not alone. 474 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,280 Bob has felt like he's failed. I have felt like I failed. 475 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,960 I mean, it's real failure. And it's not like he's felt like 476 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,280 he's failed, but he hasn't failed. 477 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,480 No, we, we have failure. And then we'll sit around and 478 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,920 feel like we failed at episode of times. 479 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,400 But the Lord's got us through it and we get back up and we move 480 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,600 on in the power of the Lord. We may have to go backwards. 481 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,360 Seems to be a theme around here. I heard it on the radio again 482 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,160 today. Remember from where you have 483 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,280 fallen. Repent. 484 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,840 Repeat the 1st works that this is as strong as a Church of 485 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,560 Ephesus it was. And revelation, Jesus still had 486 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,600 to tell them that you got to go back in order to go forward. 487 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,040 You got to go back. And that's true with balance. 488 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,040 That's true with success. That's true with failure. 489 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,720 And in our next episode, we're going to talk about depression 490 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,640 and discouragement. And it's true there too. 491 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,280 So thanks for joining us today. My name is Ed Taylor. 492 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,520 This is the Lead to Serve podcast in studio for season 6 493 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,840 is Pastor Bob Klaycamp. We're talking about life and 494 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,280 ministry, allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us. 495 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:34,120 If you have any feedback, e-mail me directly ed@edtaylor.org. 496 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,720 You can also e-mail Bob and his e-mail address is 497 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:44,040 bob@bobklaycamp.com and the end of our e-mail addresses is also 498 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,560 our websites. We have a website. 499 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,600 I have a website, edtaylor.org. Bob's information to be found at 500 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,160 bobclaycamp.com. We both serve together here at 501 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,560 Calvary Church on talking life and ministry together. 502 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,520 The feedback of the We Keep Doing podcast because the 503 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,560 feedback has been very, very good. 504 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,400 I and we want to talk ministry. We want to answer questions if 505 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,760 you have any topic ideas. A lot of these topics this 506 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,120 season came from feedback that I'm listening and reading the 507 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,240 feedback and what's coming in. If you have a specific topic you 508 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,360 want us to cover, we'd love to cover it and talk about it. 509 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,000 But until next time, the Lord bless you, encourage you leave a 510 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,480 good review, share this on your social media. 511 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,520 The more people that join us, the more feedback and 512 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,480 interaction we'll get. So God bless you guys. 513 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,800 Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead to Serve 514 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,160 with Pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary 515 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,920 Church in Aurora, Co. If you have a leadership 516 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,440 question you want to hear answered on a future Lead to 517 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,600 Serve podcast, please e-mail it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co dot 518 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,640 church. And if you like our podcast, 519 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,320 please subscribe, rate or review us on iTunes and share us with 520 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,680 your friends on social media. Thanks again for joining us, and 521 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,400 we'll see you next time right here on the Lead to Serve 522 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,160 podcast.