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Welcome to today's broadcast of 
lead to serve a leadership 

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podcast with Ed Taylor, welcome 
again to this episode of the 

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lead to serve podcast. 
We're on episode number 5 of 

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season. 
Number four, and season, number 

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four is a special Seasons doing 
something that we haven't done 

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before. 
And that Is I have Pastor Bob 

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Clay camp with me and there are 
the both of us are talking 

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through things. 
So Pastor Bob, welcome back, 

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great. 
It's good to be here again. 

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Been very, very good and all the
episodes and we're bouncing 

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things off. 
And remember, the lead to serve 

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podcast, is a podcast that 
originates here at Calvary 

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Church in Aurora, Colorado, my 
name is Ed Taylor and I've been 

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pastoring here for 22 years. 
Moved out here, to plant the 

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church and been used of God, 
greatly and lots of ups and 

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downs. 
Lot of good, a lot of bad I 

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would even say leading into the 
topic today. 

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Some of the greatest joys of 
ever experienced have been in 

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this church and some of the 
worst or probably the worst pain

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I've ever experienced have been 
from this church and that's 

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where that's one of the benefits
and the consequence of 

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longevity. 
When you're in one place for a 

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long time, you're going to live 
a lot of life together. 

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And we have lived a lot of life 
here, my family, and I and we I 

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have a passion for leadership 
for developing men and women for

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the ministry. 
I've always been that way. 

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I've take to heart the necessity
of raising up men and women that

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phrase raising up. 
I taken in this set, I take to 

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heart what Paul had told Timothy
when he talked about. 

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Committing things to Faithful 
Men. 

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Remember what he said in second 
Timothy 2? 

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He said, you therefore my son be
strong in the grace, that is in 

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Christ, Jesus. 
And the things that you have 

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heard from me among many 
witnesses. 

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Commit, these to Faithful Men 
Who will be able to teach others

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also, and I've taken that 
serious him all my entirety of 

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ministry. 
So I've been here 22 years, but 

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I also served in my previous 
church at Calvary Chapel and 

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Downey for eight years in 
various places. 

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Doing lots of different things. 
What a, what a school, I didn't 

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get to go to school. 
I didn't get to go to Seminary, 

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I didn't get to go. 
Even to Bible College even 

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though I do have a Bible college
degree. 

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Most of it was just a little 
class on Tuesday and Thursday 

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nights at Downey that they end 
up turning into at the Calvary 

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Chapel. 
I came from, they turned it into

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the Bible College and I don't 
know 15, 16 years later, they 

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gave finally gave me credit and 
gave me a Bible call his degree.

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But I didn't get to go there. 
Most of my Ministry, although I 

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would have, I'm a student 
studying comes easy for me. 

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I love learning, I love reading,
I love writing papers. 

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I mean II would it's hard to 
even say that? 

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But if you think about it 
pastors, right? 

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At least one, or two term papers
every week, their whole life. 

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That's right. 
Based on what they're studying 

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in the scriptures. 
And and so I didn't get to do 

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that. 
But a lot of the ministry that 

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I've learned, I've learned just 
like this, talking things out 

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learning it Doing it. 
I in this has been very 

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important because not 
everybody's gonna be a pastor, 

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not, everybody's going to be a 
person in leadership or Beyond a

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church staff, but everybody's 
going to be a servant of God, 

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everybody's going to follow the 
footsteps of Jesus. 

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So these principles, we want to 
place them in a simple. 

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I want to take them and place 
them simply that that is 

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important to me. 
I want them so simple that they 

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sound so simple, so that you can
apply them in your context. 

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Whether you're a senior, pastor 
of a million member Church, Or 

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you are teaching a Sunday school
class with one child in your 

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marriage and your singleness. 
You got a new job, you're a 

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supervisor, maybe you're a CEO, 
these are Universal. 

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These are Universal principles 
that would have different 

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applications. 
So that's what lead the service 

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were in season. 
Number for all of the archives 

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are available wherever you get 
your podcast. 

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We might have replaced season 1 
by now. 

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But most of them should be 
available. 

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And we decided because we didn't
script this to really talk about

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the post pandemic. 
First just really how all these 

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things and then we went to 
change and communicating and 

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then all this sense of an 
adequacy. 

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So, on this episode, we want to 
build on this an adequacy 

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inability and talk about pain 
and doubting pain and doubting 

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in the context of serving 
others. 

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Because when you are bounced 
around, And and you are just in 

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the mix and you are doing 
exactly what God called you to 

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do. 
You are going to experience. 

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Significant pain, mostly 
spiritual and emotional pain. 

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Mostly on occasion. 
There may be physical pain, but 

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you can even see Bob, by the 
way, did I welcome you already? 

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Welcome. 
That's good to be here. 

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I know you're already here, but 
welcome Bob for another episode,

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but we're just talking, like, 
it's all But thinking, even in 

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some cases, Bob, the kind of 
pain that's been experienced in 

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churches, emotional. 
And spiritual has turned into 

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abuse, right? 
And the people are being abused,

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under the guise of Christianity,
being abused by leadership and a

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lot of folks, there's trying to 
find out that the reason why 

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I'll tell you the reason why men
are sinful and many men get put 

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into positions of leadership and
women based on on their Charisma

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and all their our 
characteristics without 

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character. 
Yeah. 

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And I'll tell you pain and the 
they backing off on that topic. 

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Abusive, for a moment. 
When you experience pain serving

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Jesus, it will be a revelation 
of your character. 

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Absolutely. 
It's like bumping a cup that has

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a little dirt in the bottom. 
That's been sitting there for a 

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while. 
It looks clear until you bump 

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the cup and then you blame the 
bump for causing the dirt. 

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Well, the dirt was already 
They're the bump just started 

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out. 
It's really just stirred it up. 

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I think it's important that you 
express. 

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I believe it's important to you 
that it's expressed at the 

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beginning here that you will be 
hurt in the church that you're 

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in right now, maybe like the 
church you came from. 

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And if you end up in another 
church because whenever you get 

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people together, Hurting people,
hurt people and if Ministry and 

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the in your church is done 
correctly, then hurting people 

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be attracted to the gospel, 
they'll be attracted to the 

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Savior. 
Who's the Good Shepherd? 

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And I would say, if you went to 
church, this sent this weekend 

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or this Sunday and look around 
you by the countenance alone, 

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just looking in people's eyes, 
body language posture, you will 

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see hurting people. 
Mmm, And hurting people have a 

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tendency to hurt people. 
If someone told you along the 

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way that going to church would 
be almost like heaven and you 

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won't be hurt like you were in 
the world and you won't be hurt.

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Like you are at work and you 
won't be hurt. 

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Like you are in your 
dysfunctional family. 

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They didn't tell you the truth, 
Jesus told us the truth. 

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He said in this world you will 
suffer tribulation but be of 

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good cheer. 
I have overcome the world and 

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pain and doubting and LT are a 
part of the package of serving 

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Jesus, to the capacity of the 
people that you serve will be to

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the capacity of the risk as 
we've talked about earlier, 

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right? 
The risk of being hurt. 

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What are your thoughts ball? 
Well the deepest hurt come from 

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the people closest to you the 
Betrayal, the slander the half 

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Stories being falsely charged 
that hurts worse than I'd rather

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suffer a broken arm because then
it can heal and you can get on 

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with it. 
But sometimes of the hurt from 

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someone closest to you, is 
really hard to get over it and 

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Satan uses it. 
To put you in jail, emotionally 

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spiritually through, it starts 
with offense, bitterness 

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resentment. 
And as you think about that 

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person, or those people that 
caused the offense, you just 

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even when they come to mind, 
your reaction tells you that. 

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First of all, you're not over 
it. 

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And second thing is, if you 
don't forgive them, as Christ 

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has forgiven you, then you 
continually suffer it and it, 

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and then there's this part of 
us, that Embellishes, even what 

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has happened to make to almost 
become the victim mentality. 

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And man, that's a trap that the 
enemy just uses us. 

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I mean, I think Cain was in that
trap and that's what it ended up

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killing Abel his brother. 
He got offended there when they 

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offer their offerings and and it
just he didn't, he didn't deal 

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with it. 
He didn't follow the pattern of 

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forgiveness as God forgave. 
Of Adam and Eve. 

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He just it just created a 
monster in him and because we 

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open up ourselves so much to 
people that we work with or were

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around. 
Maybe it's your spouse your 

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children when they, when they 
turn it hurts, the deepest 

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because you've become the most 
vulnerable with them. 

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I really believe that you used a
word that in that, that segment.

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That we must emphasize and 
that's the word continually 

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because we do think of 
forgiveness being at a point in 

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time, and indeed it is. 
But when there is then 

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repetitive send I think of 
within the church when there's 

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not repentance on the other side
then there's a continual 

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repetitive repetitive sin, a 
repetitive situation where you 

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if you aren't if you are 
continually being offended then 

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you must respond with continual 
forgiveness. 

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Absolutely. 
And that's a real important 

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process to think because if your
counseling someone and you know 

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we're not counseling but 
biblically discipling them. 

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And you this topic comes up, you
explain to just the way you did 

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I can almost hear the response 
and why did forgive them? 

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Well then why are you so bitter 
right now? 

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Like if you did forgive them, 
why? 

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And and one of the possibilities
could be is they just haven't 

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continually? 
They haven't lived and walked in

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forgiveness. 
Yeah, they forgave because they 

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believe that's what God told me.
To do. 

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But then, after forgiveness, I 
can just be angry the rest of my

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life because I did forgive but 
I'm still really nasty angry and

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what you're describing is, how 
how they'd fallen for the Trap. 

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Yeah. 
And they, and they end up 

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staying in the jail cell, but 
there's no lock on it, but they 

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choose not to walk out because 
if they walk out, then the 

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person has gotten away with it. 
And so they want to see the 

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person punished before they walk
out, but Christ has been 

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punished. because their sin was 
born by him, it just as much as 

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he bore your sin and so it's 
it's a release, it's a giving up

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the right to hurt back and and 
Seeing them as God sees them 

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because the offense was probably
just the symptom going on in 

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their life and you became the 
recipient of their symptom 

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rather than the core issue, you 
know, you weren't the core 

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issue. 
It was what was going on in 

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their life was the core issue. 
So how does pain? 

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How does being hurt in the 
church be experiencing betrayal 

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in the church or in life? 
You know, again, we're looking 

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at servanthood here. 
And as you serve the Lord, you 

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need to be ready for pain the 
Bible. 

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It is Phil everybody that's ever
been used of God has suffered 

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and our savior was torturously 
illegally beaten and crucified 

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this. 
We serve a crucified Savior and 

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that will experience his victory
in the future. 

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But right now we have an enemy 
that's alive and well. 

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And how does pain now deal with 
or how do You've got you've 

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already got kind of building on 
a theme. 

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I've got lots of changes going 
on. 

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I'm stepping into something, I 
don't feel adequate and then the

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I step in because I felt like 
God want me to do it. 

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And then I got hurt really bad. 
I got people and calling me 

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names. 
Slandering lying about me, or 

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even far, worse things. 
How does, how does someone 

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respond with anything other than
quitting? 

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Sometimes, you have to get a 
Alone with the Lord and get a 

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pen and a paper, and your Bible 
and just talk it out with the 

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Lord and just write out 
everything. 

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I mean, I was, but I've been 
brought to these kinds of times 

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and you just no-holds-barred, 
you just write down everything. 

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You think, every emotion, you 
have every person and you just 

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write it all out, get it out. 
And it's during those times, 

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when it's like, The Lord says 
now is is that it? 

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I mean, is that everything? 
You sure you have everything 

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down. 
Well now there's a few other 

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00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:10,000
things and and and so you get it
all out on paper and you look at

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00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:16,200
it and it's like is this is this
kind of the summation and you 

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00:14:16,208 --> 00:14:19,800
go? 
Yeah. and and when you see it 

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00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,900
out here because you've gotten 
that out from stirring, it up 

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inside all the sudden you start 
going, you know, how does the 

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00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:34,200
Lord see this and I mean, I've 
processed this before, and I've 

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00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,500
watched it happen in my life and
there was just a release saying,

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00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:43,300
you know, I'm bigger than this. 
I really am bigger than this and

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I died for this, just like I 
died for you. 

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And And, you know, when I, when 
I get alone with the Lord, I 

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know. 
He talks to me and he uses my 

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00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:59,100
name for me, it is, he doesn't 
call me Bobby, you know, Robert,

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00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:03,500
no, he just, you know, he talks 
to me in his kindness and he 

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00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:10,500
says, you know, I want you to go
forward and this is this is a 

242
00:15:10,508 --> 00:15:13,700
roadblock or this is a stop 
sticks that the Satanist put 

243
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:18,800
down to to flatten your tires 
and and you know what, will get 

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00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,000
you new tires and and let's just
go on, you know, I know these 

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00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,500
things are true and these things
happen, but I already knew about

246
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:31,600
those things and you're more 
important to me than this. 

247
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So let's just take this. 
And let's Forward. 

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And here's what I want you to 
do, and it kind of reminds me of

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Elijah going down to Mount Sinai
because he was really bummed on 

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the whole thing, falling apart 
with Ahab and Jezebel and the 

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lord gave him New Vision when he
poured out everything. 

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And then the lord gave me 
perspective and gave him New 

253
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Vision. 
He says, here's what I want you 

254
00:15:58,500 --> 00:15:59,900
to do. 
I want you to do these three 

255
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things. 
I want you to go and and you 

256
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,400
know, step by step and so he did
it. 

257
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:11,200
It and it got him back on track.
I was thinking of a lie, Joe. 

258
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,300
As you're talking, I'm was also 
reminded of job that that New 

259
00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:22,100
Perspective was painful to hear.
He gave a real strong word to 

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00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:24,600
Elijah. 
And and one of the words, he 

261
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:25,900
gate was. 
What are you doing here? 

262
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,200
Yeah. 
Now I guess we could read into 

263
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,300
what the, what the tone of voice
was but this is give it a 

264
00:16:32,308 --> 00:16:37,000
neutral tone of those Elijah 
could say, but your god, what do

265
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,100
you what do you mean? 
Why are you asking me this? 

266
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,500
This, you know what, I'm going 
through. 

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00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:45,000
You know, when I'm facing, you 
know what Jezebel did, you know 

268
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,600
her threats and the perspective 
that was given to lie. 

269
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,300
Joe's, very similar to given to 
job for different reasons, but 

270
00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:56,400
it was job. 
I have experienced this whole 

271
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,000
thing from with I've watched 
this whole thing on violin, 

272
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,100
there you are and God says 
within exactly where were you, 

273
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:07,099
when everything was made. 
And I would say that there are 

274
00:17:07,099 --> 00:17:11,200
times where we need someone, 
whether it's a time alone to get

275
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,500
away and have a good, the Lord 
do it himself or someone in our 

276
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:18,900
life that can just look Us in 
the eye and say, are you? 

277
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:20,500
Do you hear yourself? 
Yeah. 

278
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,200
Do you or whatever it might be, 
it's going to be Spirit Led, 

279
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,800
right? 
But you have a trusted man or 

280
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,099
woman in your life to to talk to
you. 

281
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:31,600
Talk you through or sometimes. 
We use the phrase talk you off 

282
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,000
the ledge. 
It's probably not the best 

283
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,900
illustration because I had that 
describes some real difficult 

284
00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:39,200
scenarios but you do get to the 
ledge, right? 

285
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,200
You do get to the place where 
you ready, you're done. 

286
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,100
You, you already felt inadequate
to begin with. 

287
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,700
You'd never expected to be hurt 
like this, or to be betrayed 

288
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,800
like this in the church, or for 
pastors in particular. 

289
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,200
They deal with this all day. 
Every day, all day every day, 

290
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,300
somebody's upset with them, for 
some reason. 

291
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:03,200
People think that they can just 
be really nasty with pastors 

292
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,900
more than they would be with 
their, but again, The spirit of 

293
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:08,800
nastiness now and our culture 
that it's even more. 

294
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,900
But for some reason and this is 
maybe I don't know if you've 

295
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:15,600
seen this is, if you can 
validate it, but I just for some

296
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,200
reason, people think that they 
don't need any filters to just 

297
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,300
slam their password, like he's 
not even human anymore. 

298
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:25,900
I think social media has really 
fed into that and it's not the 

299
00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:28,600
pastor is his wife now. 
His wife's not ever his kids. 

300
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,300
Yeah, I'm not whole genre of 
Pastor kids in such, it's far 

301
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:36,300
worse than it's ever been and 
it's not Not reflective of the 

302
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,400
grace of God or the Agape of God
or the fruit of the spirit. 

303
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:42,000
And I just want to say if you're
a pastor having to deal with all

304
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,300
that drama. 
I'm sorry. 

305
00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:47,000
It is hard and it and you're not
the only one like so there you 

306
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,000
are sitting in just really 
licking your wounds right now 

307
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,700
and I'm going to listen to a 
podcast. 

308
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:53,700
And now we're just bringing your
wounds up all over again. 

309
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:56,500
Well, for the sake just to let 
you know, you're not alone, it 

310
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:59,800
is not just you. 
There is there's just a spirit 

311
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:06,100
of nastiness that has overtaken 
so many and the The person that 

312
00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:09,500
gets it, the most is the pastor 
or his wife, you know, his 

313
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:11,300
wife's doesn't do enough. 
She doesn't dress, right? 

314
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:13,900
She's not the right kind of mom 
if she's a homeschooling. 

315
00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:15,100
Mom, she'd I'm in the public 
school. 

316
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:17,600
If not probably squeeze, I know,
and look at your kids are acting

317
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,600
like kids. 
It's I'm sorry, it's an added 

318
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,100
pain, because you want to serve 
the church, you want to give 

319
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:30,500
yourself in real pastoral 
Ministry and And there even is, 

320
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:32,300
we don't have, we're going to 
wind down here because we're 

321
00:19:32,308 --> 00:19:36,500
almost done for this episode, 
but there's even a an added 

322
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:42,400
addition to pain as doubting and
just all maybe this isn't, maybe

323
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,500
this is not for me because if it
was for me I wouldn't be going 

324
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:48,600
through all this. 
What do you think about that? 

325
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,600
Well, I what comes to mind is 
David Wright before King, Saul 

326
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,500
died, when he decided, you know,
is there's nothing better for me

327
00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:59,200
than to go into the land of the 
Enemy. 

328
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:03,600
And I mean, it was only like 
maybe a week maybe two weeks at 

329
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,100
the most away from everything 
being over but he made a 

330
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:13,000
knee-jerk decision to to do it. 
And I mean, I mean he had been 

331
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,900
doing it for years. 
I mean you know all Saul King 

332
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:20,700
Saul ruined his 20s but you 
know, it's just eat. 

333
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,100
But God was even way ahead of 
him on that. 

334
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:24,900
God knew what it was going to 
happen. 

335
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:27,900
But it's written down. 
So we can learn as well. 

336
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,800
That will have those I'm kind of
times. 

337
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:32,000
Yeah, the doubting is is a 
natural. 

338
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,000
Is a natural response but it's 
not a super natural response. 

339
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,000
So it is the human part. 
The human part is I'm 

340
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,700
inadequate, I'm not good enough,
I am foolish, I'm not educated. 

341
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,200
Those are regular natural ways 
of responding and maybe there's 

342
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,500
some facts to it. 
May not be the truth. 

343
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:52,400
And there's a real distinction 
between facts and truth because 

344
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,000
facts they have to come to a 
conclusion. 

345
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,500
So that's how people can take 
the same facts and come to to 

346
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:01,300
different conclusions. 
Facts are facts but they may not

347
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:04,200
necessarily be reflective of the
truth. 

348
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,300
For example, give you a quick 
example. 

349
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:10,200
We're standing outside and a 
drop of water falls on our head.

350
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:16,000
That's the fact and then I say, 
oh no, there's a storm coming. 

351
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:19,800
Well, that may not be the child.
I don't like in you look around 

352
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,200
the blue skies are blue. 
There's not a cloud in the sky 

353
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:25,700
and and that water drop was 
actually just something from the

354
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:28,700
roof of the building. 
You were standing under it. 

355
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:32,400
If so you have the right fact, 
but I didn't come to a truthful 

356
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,000
conclusion, right? 
And that's important for you as 

357
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,800
a follower of Christ and even as
a servant of the Lord to know 

358
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:40,900
that you, you have to make a 
distinction between what our 

359
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:45,300
facts and what is truth because 
truth is isn't messed with by 

360
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,800
fax fax, will always see that? 
The truth will always support 

361
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,500
the facts that that that will be
an Essence, but the facts won't 

362
00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:57,500
always lead you to the truth. 
If you know what don't always 

363
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:00,000
lead people to the truth. 
You have to have Supernatural 

364
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,700
wisdom and and know that there 
is only one singular truth, 

365
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:06,000
right? 
Jesus said he's the way the 

366
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,600
truth and the life and but 
leading to the doubts that 

367
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,400
you're having the doubts are 
normal and their natural but 

368
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,400
they're not super natural and so
you want to take those doubts 

369
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,500
you want to take those fears you
want to take those anxieties and

370
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:21,500
you want to get a loan with the 
Lord. 

371
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:24,000
You want to have a regular if 
you can't get along with the 

372
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,000
Lord. 
In any other way, make your car 

373
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,700
a sanctuary on the way to work 
make me. 

374
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:31,900
After I know for many many 
years, my schedule, I was 

375
00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:35,700
working full-time, 12, 14 hours 
a day, had a lot of 

376
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:38,100
responsibility to church. 
So I responsibility at work is a

377
00:22:38,108 --> 00:22:42,500
24 hour seven day a week job so 
I pagers and cell phones and it 

378
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:45,700
was wild. 
So the place that I got my most 

379
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:48,600
alone time was very late at 
night. 2:00 3:00 in the morning 

380
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,900
that when my kids were all in 
bed and Marie was in bed and and

381
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:56,000
yes, I sacrificed a lot of sleep
back then, but I think it got me

382
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,500
through a very challenging time 
and I know Oh, people listening 

383
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:01,900
is like, well I want to sleep. 
I need my sleep, we'll find a 

384
00:23:01,908 --> 00:23:02,900
place. 
It doesn't matter. 

385
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:06,500
It's not the only solution find 
a place so that you can be alone

386
00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:09,300
with the Lord and really wrestle
with your doubts. 

387
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,000
But please don't Define Yourself
by your doubts. 

388
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,800
Please don't like I get really 
upset with you all doubting 

389
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,100
Thomas. 
Well, I think there was more to 

390
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:20,000
Thomas's life than doubting even
though that's what's reserved 

391
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,600
for us in the scriptures and 
take his doubting for a second 

392
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,200
that maybe it wasn't so much 
doubting as it was inquisitive 

393
00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:28,700
or the kind of guy that just 
needs more information. 

394
00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:30,400
Mission before they make a 
decision. 

395
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,900
I served with a guy like that. 
I can make a decision. 

396
00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:34,500
You tell me something. 
I'll make it right now. 

397
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,300
He I need three confirmations 
and scriptures. 

398
00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:41,900
That's how he lived his life and
it worked extremely well for 

399
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,200
him. 
And most of the time, I can't 

400
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,900
remember too many times I make. 
I'm trying to recollect one 

401
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,100
where it didn't work for him. 
Yeah, you know me. 

402
00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:54,300
I'm like, okay, let's do it. 
Let's do it, let's do it. 

403
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,800
You know, that has its own 
problems and it has its own 

404
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,200
dangers, but there are People 
that just need a little extra 

405
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,000
that that's how they're made in.
And why would he's doubting 

406
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,000
Thomas will? 
No, no, actually, he's not, he 

407
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,200
just got, Jesus didn't calm 
doubting, you know, he didn't 

408
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:12,800
tell him you're a horrible 
person. 

409
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,100
That why do you doubt me? 
What's your problem? 

410
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,700
Yeah, he understood him. 
Yes. 

411
00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:20,500
And he gave him more evidence. 
Yeah, because I mean think about

412
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:25,500
it you you put your whole life 
in Jesus as the Messiah and then

413
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:28,100
they crucified him. 
I mean, I think he was going 

414
00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:31,400
through such Angst such, you 
know. 

415
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,700
And then to hear these stories, 
she going, you know, I'm just 

416
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:38,900
unless I unless I put my hand 
into a site and I mean I don't I

417
00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:41,500
think it's kind of reasonable 
that because he's a reasonable 

418
00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:43,100
guy. 
He's processing. 

419
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,000
And you know what he did? 
Jesus did say is, oh you of 

420
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,200
little faith or that was to 
Peter, why did you doubt? 

421
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,000
And then he goes on later and 
Matthew, assuredly, I say to 

422
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,700
you. 
If you have faith and do not 

423
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:56,600
doubt, you won't, you will not 
only do what was done to the 

424
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,300
Fig, but to this mountain. 
Doubt did surround him but he 

425
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:03,100
didn't make that the identity of
people. 

426
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,300
Yeah, and right, I think that's 
in. 

427
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:08,800
So if you're a doubter or a 
fearful person or you need more 

428
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,100
information, that's how God made
you. 

429
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:15,000
However, if these natural things
started getting in the way of 

430
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,300
your ministry of serving then 
you really want to bring them to

431
00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:24,300
Lord because God doesn't want 
you to quit in the traditional 

432
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:27,100
sense where you just get up and 
walk out or like Pastor Bob 

433
00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:28,700
Sheridan. 
I'm just going to write my 

434
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:31,600
Resignation I've never done that
before but I'm ready to quit. 

435
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,900
That's basically what he was 
describing and grateful, he 

436
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,900
thankful he didn't do that, he 
processed the Holy Spirit, led 

437
00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:40,800
him it was a different way that 
he left the ministry there. 

438
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,000
Because there are times when 
it's time to move on, there are 

439
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,300
times when there's new seasons 
is we've talked about but 

440
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:51,000
quitting for the sake of 
quitting and then blaming God 

441
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,300
for it. 
I guess I could be another 

442
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:54,400
podcast all alone. 
People do all kinds of things. 

443
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,400
Well, God told me to do it but 
everything about it doesn't look

444
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,400
like God doesn't sound like God.
It doesn't feel like God doesn't

445
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,100
has no scriptural support, but 
God, did you know? 

446
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:06,200
Yeah, he told me to abandon my 
wife and kids and I'm just going

447
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,700
to know I'm gonna quit this 
marriage. 

448
00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:11,000
No, no, no, so, not that, don't 
quit. 

449
00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:13,000
Just let that to be the final 
word. 

450
00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:16,100
Don't quit steady on ask for 
help. 

451
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,300
If someone's thinking this will 
be our final thoughts. 

452
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:21,400
Bob, if somebody's thinking 
about quitting and they call you

453
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,700
up, what are you going to tell 
him? 

454
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,200
What I'm going to tell him, is 
tell me about how you first 

455
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,200
entered the ministry. 
What were your reasonings? 

456
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:34,500
What was going on in your heart?
Were you excited about it? 

457
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,500
What were you expecting? 
I think most of my Ministry to 

458
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:43,200
other pastors has been 
perspective, just helping them 

459
00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:49,300
rethink. 
Helping them go back and Just 

460
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:52,400
being an outside voice, a safe 
place for them to download. 

461
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,100
And then say, here's here's what
I'm hearing you say, is this, 

462
00:26:57,100 --> 00:27:01,900
really how you're feeling? 
And when you hear it from me, 

463
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:06,700
what are your thoughts just to 
be a sounding board rather than 

464
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:08,700
saying what are you saying, you 
know, you can't do that. 

465
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:11,700
You know, what kind of Christian
are you and that's not helpful, 

466
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:14,000
right? 
And but just to help them 

467
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:19,000
process, the thoughts and, and 
to get through Do it and be a 

468
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,200
safe place for them to download 
and without climbing all over 

469
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,800
him. 
Yeah, well if that's part of 

470
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,800
where your ministry is right 
now, ask for help and it could 

471
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,000
be from us, it could be for 
someone that you know, no longer

472
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,100
hide it. 
Don't press it down. 

473
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,600
It's not going to go away. 
It's only going to Fester. 

474
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:39,900
It's only going to get harder 
for the next issue. 

475
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:42,100
You, you weren't you weren't 
designed to go through this 

476
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:44,600
alone. 
You weren't designed to carry 

477
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,900
the weight of the church on your
own shoulders. 

478
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:50,100
You weren't designed to take all
the Sure that we've been talking

479
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:55,200
about but there are there is 
help so ask for help and you can

480
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,600
email me at edited Taylor 
dot-org. 

481
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,800
Ed Ed Taylor dot or you can 
email me where resourcing 

482
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,600
church? 
So if you looking for resources 

483
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,100
or help you can do that there's 
I also ride mon a my website at 

484
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,000
Taylor dot-org. 
It has to be dot-org if you go 

485
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,100
to.com. 
The Santa Claus owns that quite 

486
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:17,600
literally a professional. 
Santa Claus is named ed Taylor. 

487
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,400
And he has my domain name and 
Santa's not very nice. 

488
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,500
He won't give it away. 
I mean, not like he's a mean 

489
00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:24,700
person. 
He just won't give it away. 

490
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,400
We've asked, and I think he 
wanted six figures for it, so he

491
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:34,000
thinks he's a, he's a pretty 
important Santa and he is the 

492
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,000
pandemic. 
I know that you're not listening

493
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,500
to this podcast for that, but 
the pandemic gave him either a 

494
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:43,100
doing soon calls with Santa for 
like 200 bucks, a pop for 

495
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:46,100
parents with their kids. 
Like so anyway, Santa's got a 

496
00:28:46,108 --> 00:28:47,900
great website but he has my 
name. 

497
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:52,400
And my website is dot o-- r-- 
g-- Ed Taylor dot-org. 

498
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,300
Pastor Bob has a website as well
Bob at clay Camp.com. 

499
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:59,200
He's a part of the team here at 
Calvary but he's also a part of 

500
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,900
pointman Ministries where he 
goes around ministering to 

501
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:05,800
churches traveling and doing 
assessments and it you can 

502
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,800
invite him to come to your 
church and do discipleship in. 

503
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,700
He does discipleship with us all
the time. 

504
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,700
He can do an assessment of your 
church. 

505
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:17,000
He can come and take you out to 
lunch but you got to contact him

506
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,300
for it. 
We don't what we don't know. 

507
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,900
No, you know the Holy Spirit 
could share with us but you can 

508
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:22,900
too. 
So let us know on. 

509
00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:25,900
Give us feedback on the podcast.
This is the lead to serve 

510
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:28,200
podcast. 
We've just finished our fifth 

511
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,300
episode in the season for and 
we'd love to hear from you. 

512
00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:34,700
Of course, leave us reviews and 
give us high ratings on your 

513
00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:37,900
podcast provider. 
That helps people find it post 

514
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:39,900
on your social media. 
Get the word out. 

515
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:42,100
Tell your pastor, tell your 
church about it, tell your 

516
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:44,700
leaders about it. 
I want I have a desire to 

517
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:46,400
support them. 
We've got a couple books. 

518
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,000
I have five books in And but two
in particular about Ministry, 

519
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,500
one is Ordinary Servant for that
basic introductory step into 

520
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:57,500
serving God. 
And then there's another for 

521
00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:00,400
like like level of leadership 
and oversight. 

522
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,400
It's called sure and steady, you
can get it at our store Calvary 

523
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,500
Co dot store or wherever you get
books, you there it's available 

524
00:30:09,700 --> 00:30:12,700
and we would want to encourage 
you and people are using it 

525
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:15,000
disciple. 
I how I disciple the team here 

526
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,900
as a staff. 
Our team is going to be going 

527
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:18,100
through it. 
Not too long from now. 

528
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,400
We just and their topics just to
talk about because I'll tell you

529
00:30:22,408 --> 00:30:27,200
what. 
One of the greatest sources of 

530
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,300
difficulty in Ministry is making
assumptions. 

531
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:35,600
And so we try to just take away 
as many assumptions as we can, 

532
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,000
and say, this is what's 
expected. 

533
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,600
And that way, we have a meeting 
of the minds. 

534
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,000
So, thanks for joining us, 
season 4, until next time, the 

535
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Lord bless you, and courage, you
and strengthen you in him, thank

536
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,100
you for joining us. 
For this episode of lead, to 

537
00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:54,900
serve with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a 
leadership podcast from Calvary 

538
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:57,200
Church in Aurora. 
Colorado, if you have a 

539
00:30:57,208 --> 00:31:00,100
leadership question, you want to
hear answered on a future lead 

540
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:02,500
to serve podcast, please email 
it to pass. 

541
00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:06,800
At Calvary Co dot church and if 
you like our podcast, Please 

542
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,100
Subscribe rate or review us on 
iTunes and share us with your 

543
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:13,400
friends on social media. 
Thanks again for joining us and 

544
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,200
we'll see you next time right 
here on the lead to serve 

545
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:05,300
podcast. 
At Calvary Co dot church and if 

546
00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:08,700
you like our podcast, Please 
Subscribe rate or review us on 

547
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:11,600
iTunes and share us with your 
friends on social media. 

548
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:14,800
Thanks again for joining us and 
we'll see you next time right 

549
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,000
here on the lead to serve 
podcast.