1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,480 Calvary Church presents lead to Serve, a leadership podcast with 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,720 Ed Taylor. Welcome to another episode of 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,840 the Lead to Serve podcast with Pastor Ed Taylor. 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,200 My name is Ed, your host for today and the host of the 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,720 podcast. And in studio with me again is 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,680 our friend Pastor Bob Klaykamp. Welcome, Bob. 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,439 Yeah, it's great to be here. 50 plus years of ministry 8 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:35,960 experience, you're not saying anything. 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,280 No, no, no. It's all grace. 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,680 It's what I think, I think it what a blessing it is to be able 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,120 to sit in the room with a man who has 50 plus years of 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,640 experience, good, bad, left, right, up, down, so that we all 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,120 can learn and, and just real quick. 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,320 I know we're on the introduction, but I just want to 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,280 keep talking. 50 years goes by fast. 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,000 It does. That's a question. 17 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,720 Seems like maybe 20? And when you look back, and this 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,920 is on the spot and off topic, but do you see any wasted years? 19 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:11,960 No. No. 20 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:14,920 Maybe a day or two or something. You know we have days and weeks, 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,200 but not years. No, because God doesn't ever 22 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,200 waste it. Yeah, he uses it well. 23 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,720 Even the bad years he uses. So then we'll take the 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,360 spiritual. That's the spiritual answer and 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,640 I agree with that. Obviously all things are used, 26 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,120 but in a practice is a practical podcast, so it's a real 27 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,400 practical question. Do you see any years that you 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,720 wasted through disobedience and whatever? 29 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,320 Like that's the practical side. No. 30 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,960 And that and that's what we were talking about earlier because I 31 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:46,880 would, I would venture a guess before you even answered that 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,880 the answer be no. And we'll probably do an episode 33 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,520 on this. But we were just talking 34 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,760 earlier. How does a man last 50 years and 35 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:02,400 he's usable and he no big blow out, no big disqualifying sin. 36 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,760 And like my pastor, my pastor finished 50 years at Calvary 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,520 Chapel Downey before he passed away. 38 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:12,280 And again, I was at what hit me immediately. 39 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,880 Not a perfect man like all of us. 40 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,800 That's what's going to be set at our memorial. 41 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,880 Not a perfect man or whatever or what would think, but a faithful 42 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,560 man and a reliable man and a man in the hand. 43 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,320 I mean, there was no question that this man was devoted to 44 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,360 God. Yeah, great example. 45 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,480 Keep short accounts of sin, Repent, humble yourself, ask 46 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,240 forgiveness, walk and forgiveness. 47 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:42,160 That's the we would So that episode of the podcast would be 48 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,080 30 seconds, but this is season 7. 49 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,920 We're on episode 7 and I really do appreciate our last couple 50 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:55,840 weeks of episodes were very, very important and informative 51 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,600 as it isn't the we answered the question that probably is most 52 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,680 popular. I don't keep a list of how 53 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,040 popular questions are, but I do know when they keep getting 54 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,640 repeated. That one was the most repeated 55 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,360 and how you raise up someone, how you deploy them in the 56 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,080 ministry, train them. If you didn't listen to those, 57 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,440 you need to and share them and pass them on and you can follow 58 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,160 up with us if you have questions, you you heard 59 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,120 something, didn't quite understand it or you have a 60 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,920 follow up or what about you can always tell us. 61 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:34,560 You can text US 720-608-0012. You can e-mail me at Taylor or 62 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,920 you go to edtaylor.org, edtaylor.org. 63 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,280 You can e-mail me there and we'd love to hear from you any of the 64 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,840 responses I shoot off to Pastor Bob. 65 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,000 So you don't have to send them to both of us. 66 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,080 And when he gets them, he sends them to me. 67 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,560 So whatever voice you resonate with, just you can send it to us 68 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:58,000 and we'll make sure to to get it out to each other or any of the 69 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,880 other guests that I may have on the podcast. 70 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,920 Our hardest to be in a place where we're helping you be the 71 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,360 better servant because a better servants, a better leader. 72 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,080 That's the whole point. You're like in a conversation. 73 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,960 These are not scripted. These are really just Bob and I 74 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:17,600 talking. We did. 75 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,440 We do have some predetermined topics and we do have some line 76 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,040 items and some thoughts for sure. 77 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,240 But the conversation comes out as if you were in our office and 78 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,880 we're just talking ministry. And we do that a lot here. 79 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,440 We just talk ministry. We talk ideas. 80 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,440 We have staff meetings, we have personal meetings, and we just 81 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,960 get to talk. And Pastor Bob's involved in a 82 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,040 wonderful new ministry in these latter years of his life called 83 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,920 Ministry or Mission Assist. I got to get it right. 84 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:53,360 Mission Missions assist, where he's developing upon what he's 85 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,680 always done with, with Poyman supporting other churches and 86 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,400 pastors. But now he's going global and 87 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,680 he's added for you pastors listening, if you have a heart 88 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,120 for the UK and you want to connect with the church, you got 89 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,680 to talk to Bob. He'll help you. 90 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,240 Maybe your church is looking for missionaries to support, or Bob 91 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,920 can talk to you about that in his own ministry in the support 92 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,720 that he raises, because he raises support and also his 93 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,520 relationships with the UK. So that's something that is a 94 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,920 value add from Bob's life and ministry of what he's doing 95 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,520 right now. On top of being a stellar 96 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,280 husband, on top of being a stellar dad, on top of being a 97 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:38,960 stellar grandfather and on top of being a stellar, stellar, 98 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:45,960 stellar great grandfather, pastor, teacher, Walker, dog 99 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:52,200 Walker, car enthusiast. Bob is he, He has a full life 100 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,280 and a lot of energy. God has just been so gracious. 101 00:05:55,280 --> 00:06:00,360 So it's good to have you, Bob. Yes, topic today like 102 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,680 mindedness. Like mindedness. 103 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:11,920 This is very important and also builds upon our topic last time 104 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:17,400 in serving together like mindedness, the word comes from 105 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,480 2 Greek words meaning that mean equal and soul. 106 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,960 And the idea is that as you and I serve together, there's a 107 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,560 unity and a harmony and an agreement together. 108 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,640 The one of the definitions I found for this word is to be 109 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:40,560 activated by the same motives or to be of like character, Like 110 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,680 mindedness is all throughout the scriptures. 111 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:49,440 And it to me is a tremendous attribute to have serving 112 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:50,640 together. It's a necessity. 113 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,600 Actually, I wouldn't say tremendous attribute. 114 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,600 It's a necessity because it how? How can two walk together unless 115 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,720 they're agreed? Yeah, Amos 3/3. 116 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,920 Amos 33. So it's it's essential. 117 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,880 However, it also speaks to the difficulty that the church and 118 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:12,240 leaders have seen over the years of demanding allegiance, 119 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:18,960 demanding conformity, and stifling creativity and freedom. 120 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,280 I'll tell you what the death of a movement, the death of a 121 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,960 church and the death of a relationship is when you remove 122 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:34,000 freedom and now you dictate and demand instead of allow the 123 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,920 relational aspect of serving together and allow for you to be 124 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,680 different because you are different. 125 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,760 Bob, you and I are very different people. 126 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,600 Yeah. Different backgrounds, different 127 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,440 upbringings, different points of view. 128 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,040 You have more years of experience. 129 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,800 We can say 1000 things that would make us different and yet 130 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,920 together we're pretty powerful. We can do a lot together, but 131 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,880 Bob doesn't become Ed and Ed doesn't become Bob. 132 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:06,040 That will kill our relationship. And like mindedness is what I 133 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,880 love to disciple our team here, where like mindedness generally 134 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,200 is my definition. It generally it's, it means 135 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,240 generally we see things the same way. 136 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,120 Yeah, we may not agree on everything or issues. 137 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,640 Yeah, on quarry issues. We we need to see things the 138 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,040 same way, you know, doctrinal like a like the doctrinal. 139 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,600 And I thank you for bringing that up because there are some 140 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,200 assumptions here, some base baseline things. 141 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,760 Obviously doctrinally we have to be in agreement and there's if 142 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,120 we're going to move forward and be strong together. 143 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,520 We like marriage. If if your definition of 144 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,000 marriage is different than your wife's definition of marriage, 145 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,600 that's not marriage. Yeah, that's that's a landmine. 146 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,000 You. Know you think about it, I, I 147 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,920 know this is exaggerating, but think about it if if the groom's 148 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,360 definition of marriage is I want you in my life and you have to 149 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,640 stay loyal to me and and I'm the only man in your life. 150 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,360 But my definition, the man, the groom's definition of marriage 151 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,560 for himself is I can have as many women as I want. 152 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:11,240 That's not marriage no. So that core belief is it has to 153 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,440 exist in order for relationship to exist. 154 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,120 However, in the same illustration, if the husband 155 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,920 says I like to squeeze the toothpaste from the middle and 156 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,160 the wife says from the OK, well you know, get 2 tubes of 157 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,640 toothpaste, it's not that big a deal. 158 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,600 But you can still do what you're doing. 159 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,840 And I I can still do what I'm doing because we're like minded. 160 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,920 We may not agree on everything in church. 161 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,960 It's the same thing. Like doctrinally we have to be 162 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,800 in agreement. But Even so, Even so, let's say 163 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,120 you and I disagree on not a not a salvation issue, but one of 164 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,320 those secondary issues that are pretty serious. 165 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,480 It doesn't mean we're not brothers anymore, right? 166 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,520 Doesn't mean I destroy you or come down on you you. 167 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:51,480 Don't break relationship. Right. 168 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,320 But that that is a habit in the church. 169 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:55,960 You don't think like we do. You don't believe like we do. 170 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:01,080 And you, well, I can make room. I can make room for what you're 171 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,280 what you're doing. I can make room for your view if 172 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,400 it's within the pale of orthodoxy and still be your 173 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,040 buddy. Yeah, I mean, I can be a buddy 174 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,920 with people that don't even believe the Bible. 175 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,600 Yeah. So at any rate, that's not the 176 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,920 topic of our discussion. But that baseline is important. 177 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,480 And in like mindedness, that means we generally see things 178 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,960 the same way. And in our disagreements we die 179 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,200 to ourselves for the sake of a bigger 'cause that's my thought 180 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,560 of like mindedness. What do you think? 181 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,360 Well, I think you have to. No one is going to be exactly 182 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,280 agreeing with all your opinions and preferences, and you've got 183 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,520 to have grace in between everyone. 184 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,200 Give everyone the space of grace because you want that yourself. 185 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,440 I mean, even in your position as a leader, you're going to need 186 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,720 to make decisions that you don't have the opportunity to tell the 187 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,520 back story of how you got to that decision. 188 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,880 But because you've spent time with them and trust has built 189 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,880 up, people are able to give you grace, to give you the benefit 190 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,840 of the doubt. To start with, yes. 191 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,240 You want and benefit of the doubt is a big deal to each 192 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,840 other where we aren't jumping to conclusions and we're working to 193 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,560 enhance our relationship. I, I have met people that just 194 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,000 are looking for a way to break relationship or to take 195 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,240 authority or to take this is a big deal in the church because 196 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,400 if we don't learn how to trust one another and trust is 197 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,080 challenged when we don't agree and how we handle disagreements. 198 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,120 Because if you, if you, if you look at the church in general, 199 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,200 leaders especially, there is a clear chain of command in the 200 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,920 Bible. There are leaders and there are 201 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,360 followers, there are elders and there's the congregation. 202 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,360 Like there is definitely leadership, but leadership 203 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,320 doesn't convey value where somehow elders or pastors are 204 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,480 way more important than everyone else. 205 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,360 All it conveys is they have more responsibility. 206 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,720 They have directional responsibility or they have 207 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,760 leadership. Oversight and like mindedness 208 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,160 comes into play. When you don't, you don't 209 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,720 either. A Don't agree or B don't like 210 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,440 the something you've been told, like for example, silly. 211 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,840 But nonetheless, Pastor Bob, I need you to go take out the 212 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,640 trash. Well, why don't you do it, Ed? 213 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,880 I actually could do it, but I'm asking you to do it. 214 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,560 Yeah, well, and and on you could go on and on on that, but but 215 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:38,320 there's a general like mindedness that if you said, 216 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,440 hey, hey, Ed, can you go take out the trash? 217 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,320 Yeah, Bob, like I don't even need I it's not even an issue. 218 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,880 And if I'm going to grouse about it, I'm not going to do it to 219 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,120 you because we already have an agreement. 220 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,040 And if I grouse about it, what does that show? 221 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,840 I'm just going to be complaining to the Lord or mumbling under my 222 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,520 breath. And and I'm going to be in the 223 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,440 flesh and not even enjoy somehow helping you or doing something 224 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,520 for the it's silly. But like my like mindedness is, 225 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,480 well, whatever Bob's asking me, I trust him. 226 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,840 And yeah, maybe I don't want to take out, maybe I don't like 227 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,960 taking out the trash. Actually, I don't have a problem 228 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,560 with that. What I don't like doing is the 229 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:17,840 dishes. This is something personal, but 230 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,120 but I'm, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that of 231 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,240 course you could do it. And of course you could do it if 232 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,480 you wanted to do or whatever. But if you're my leader and you 233 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,160 asked me to do something, I've already agreed to it. 234 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,320 When I said I'd serve with you, I already agreed to it. 235 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,320 I don't know why it's coming up in my heart again, except that 236 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,560 I'm a I'm, I'm in the flesh, but we've already got this agreement 237 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,520 and I don't need you to tell me why. 238 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,160 I don't need you to explain yourself to to me. 239 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,200 We're like minded and we both agree that the trash needs to be 240 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,000 taken out right. And we both agree that one of us 241 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,160 is going to do it and. And that that like mindedness 242 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,440 takes time to build. It does. 243 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,240 And there's also in the process in the timeline, there are 244 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:08,360 disagreements, there are wrong, wrong conclusions or there are 245 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,440 actual times where it was in the flesh mistakes. 246 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,000 So how you going to how you going to rebound out of that? 247 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,360 How you going to endeavor to keep the unity and the bond of 248 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,280 peace? Now, let's say, let's go back to 249 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,800 the illustrations for you. If you yelled at me to tell me 250 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,680 to take out the trash or when I came back, you said you're the 251 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,240 worst trash taker outer that I've ever met, We now have 252 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,840 something to work on relationally. 253 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,960 Sure, we still both agree that the trash needs to go out. 254 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,560 We're just not happy. The way it went, it went down 255 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,720 and whether it's you or you heard me mumbling out and you 256 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,840 did it all good and why and kind and. 257 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,600 But I'm the one knocking everything down and making a big 258 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,440 ruckus about it. And I can't believe I hate this. 259 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,120 And I take out the trash and I come back to the chair here and 260 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,000 and you're and you're like, Ed, are you OK? 261 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,000 Well, yeah, of course I am, Bob. And and what? 262 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,920 But. But you were whatever. 263 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,360 And, and now we're working out relationally something that will 264 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,200 either help our relationship grow and will become more like 265 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:17,360 minded, or it will torpedo one of us or both of us. 266 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,400 But it could be one of us would torpedo our relationship and 267 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,720 would become less like minded. Yeah. 268 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,000 Which means we probably will serve less together. 269 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:33,360 Yeah, yeah, because it grows. I mean, when, when you don't 270 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:40,400 take care of a conflict, it's living, it grows and it spreads. 271 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,080 It's an amoeba. It just it, it takes different 272 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:51,880 forms and and that's the enemy. The enemy is to divide and kill 273 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:58,160 and communication, prayer together, honesty, openness, 274 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,760 forgiveness, all those are tools the Holy Spirit wants to use to, 275 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,840 to and in that process of endeavoring to keep the unity of 276 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,480 the Spirit and the bond of peace. 277 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,760 I mean, that was said on the context in Ephesians 4 of you've 278 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,280 got Jews and Gentiles in the same small environment because 279 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,240 our house churches. And so here you have an agape 280 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:28,000 meal and a Gentile comes in with all his shrimp and it's like, 281 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,120 how can you do that? And you know, so the amount of 282 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,880 topics, the amount of life situations that could occur in a 283 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,520 small church with Jew and Gentile, rich and poor and all 284 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,080 of that. I mean so, so many Satan could 285 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,840 just breathe on it and all of a sudden it flares up. 286 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,200 Yeah, yeah. We entering into serving, 287 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,000 entering into leading. I do believe like mindedness 288 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,480 needs to be at the top, not conformity. 289 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,240 When pastors and leaders demand conformity, they become abusive, 290 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:09,000 they become dictatorial, they stifle creativity, they crush 291 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,359 spirits and may not learn about it for a while because people 292 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,400 will serve, they'll love they'll they love God and they'll learn 293 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,680 how to work around you or they'll, they're just heard and 294 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,240 they'll cow. There's so many negative things 295 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,200 when a pastor becomes a dictator. 296 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:29,120 I, I had a pastor once described that to me. 297 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:32,000 I actually, I think he, it was in private conversation, but he 298 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,520 also did it from the pulpit. One of our conferences, very 299 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,480 well known pastor who described our role as benevolent 300 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,720 dictators. And I don't believe that's an 301 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,880 accurate description and should ever be an accurate description 302 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,360 of a pastor. A pastor is a benevolent 303 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,600 servant. That would be a better. 304 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,000 And as I serve you and I'm looking for your best and I'm 305 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,240 looking for you and I to be effective together and hopefully 306 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,320 training you to do the same. What I'm looking for is where we 307 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,240 agree. Because if we the more we agree, 308 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,040 the more we're going to be able to do together. 309 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,880 The more we trust each other, the more we're going to be able 310 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,080 to do together. The more that I have seen you, 311 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,160 whether with me or with someone else, truly demonstrate the 312 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,360 Christ like character of the scriptures and the the 313 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:28,400 characteristics of the Holy Spirit, the and, and watch it 314 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,600 unfold. The more I trust you and the 315 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,320 more I trust you, the more we serve together. 316 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,880 That's why it hurts so bad when somebody betrays you. 317 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,200 Yeah. I mean, you could tell how much 318 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,040 you trusted or love someone by the pain you feel when they when 319 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,360 they betray you, right. Like if it didn't matter, like. 320 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,000 Well, you know, I expect that from them. 321 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,760 Yeah, you probably didn't trust them that much. 322 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,080 It's it's kind of a bad attitude to have so. 323 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,440 But still. Yeah, but but like, if you're 324 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,160 crushed and Demon says forsaken me and you wrote it down, Yeah, 325 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,680 that was deep. Whatever that was, it was deep. 326 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,840 You know, part of the crucified life is OK, I want to live the 327 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,840 crucified life. I'm crucified with Christ. 328 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,920 OK, You can, you can drive a nail through your hand. 329 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,520 You can drive a nail through your feet. 330 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,120 But somebody else has to drive the last nail because your other 331 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,840 hand has to go on there and you can't do it. 332 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:24,040 And it hurts. And part of that hurt is but 333 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,160 also hurt. Jesus. 334 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,920 Yeah. And he, he's there to say. 335 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:29,960 I know. This. 336 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,240 But we'll get through this. I just don't go to the dark 337 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,720 side, you know? Just keep your eyes on me and 338 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,360 we'll get through this. One of the attributes that helps 339 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:46,800 with like mindedness too is the importance of submission. 340 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,000 Submission exists when we disagree and if we've already 341 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:57,160 agreed that we the core issues we agree on and we disagree with 342 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,240 some methodology or something. The best choice when I'm like 343 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,600 minded is to submit. You're my leader and I trust 344 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,280 you. And what I may not like it, I 345 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,560 may not do it this if I was a leader, I may not do it that 346 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,560 way. But for the sake of unity and 347 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,280 progress, submission is necessary. 348 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,000 Yeah, we actually all live by submission every day of every 349 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:23,440 every moment of every day. We we live by submission when 350 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,960 we're driving, we live like if you think about it, without 351 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,920 mutual submission, there would be chaos in every element of 352 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,880 society. Submissions emphasized in 353 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,960 marriage. Ephesians talks about submitting 354 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,640 to one another and the ways of the like. 355 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,800 Submission is very important and it's super helpful as if if 356 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,960 you're not sinning and we already agree and trust each 357 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,480 other and I just don't like or I'm having a bad day or 358 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,600 whatever. With an instruction you gave me, 359 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,680 the best course of action is it's not sin. 360 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,240 I just submit to it. I don't know why I'm so upset 361 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,480 and I don't know why you're upset. 362 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,120 I don't know why I'm not sure. I don't need to figure it all 363 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:06,240 out. The trash needs to be taken out. 364 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,200 I'm just going to take out the trash and hopefully I'm not 365 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,400 going to grouse about I'm not going to. 366 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,160 I'm just going to take out the trash. 367 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,560 I'm going to submit because we have been working these things 368 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,480 out already. If I'm unsubmissive, I become 369 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,200 disruptive to our relationship and I erode our like mindedness 370 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,920 because I obviously I'm not seeing things the same way when 371 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,400 when I resist you. And submission helps you 372 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:36,840 progress the ministry so much faster than an unsubmissive 373 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,640 heart. I mean, where does an 374 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:39,960 unsubmissive heart come from, Bob? 375 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,960 You read your preferences where you're elevating them to a high 376 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,960 level and you think that your way is smarter and better. 377 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,120 And even if it is, you may not be in the position to make the 378 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:54,560 final call. And so you just need to like 379 00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:02,080 humble yourself and say it's it's you know, it's I'm not the 380 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,120 one in charge. And so unless it's sin all 381 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,320 another category, but. Yeah. 382 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,840 But but just the preferences on, I mean, even in even in 383 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,800 marriage, how you load the dishwasher really, really. 384 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,640 Or you know, how you take care of the lawn, how you, yeah, you 385 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,960 know how you put things on the wall. 386 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,680 I mean, over in the UK, it's minimalist. 387 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,680 You there's one thing on the wall, one thing. 388 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,320 And they walk into our house and it's like a Christian bookstore. 389 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,200 I mean all over, everywhere, because that's my wife's gift, 390 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,560 you know? And so it's, it's just 391 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,280 different. It's not wrong, it's just 392 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:42,680 different. We learned that big time. 393 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,760 And that's a really key, even as you bring that back into our 394 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,280 discussion, it's not wrong, it's different and you might do it 395 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,960 differently. But the reality is, is that if 396 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,800 if he's the leader and you're the one that called to serve 397 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,840 with them, then submission is, is necessary. 398 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,720 It's helpful. If you're the leader and you're 399 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,840 and you're giving something, you can take that into account that 400 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,800 we've already got these things in order so I don't have to 401 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:14,240 overly respond or overreact or I can, I can say, hey, we're 402 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,000 A-Team here. Maybe I need to get all our eyes 403 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,480 back on the Lord. But your disagreement with me or 404 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,480 your lack of desire to do something isn't necessarily and 405 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,720 probably hardly ever is personal. 406 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,800 It's actually, and I wish I would have learned this earlier, 407 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,400 but like, actually it's your problems. 408 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,240 Probably not with me at all. You probably have a problem with 409 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,240 the Lord and he's working something out and I just happen 410 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,560 to be. Handy. 411 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,600 The guy that gets to be used by God, it may not be me at all, 412 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,200 but pastors and leaders, they overreact. 413 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,120 They interpret this stuff as well, You're not submissive. 414 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,160 You don't care. You. 415 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,440 No, no, no. If you're like minded, there's a 416 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,760 lot of space for expression. Yeah, there's a lot of space 417 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,760 for. And I've learned, and I've had 418 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,120 to learn this, that I actually now want more space. 419 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:10,080 I, I desire like this, this person that may not be like me, 420 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,520 but they're such a great addition to the team where and, 421 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,600 and we all get to go together and it refines me and it refines 422 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,920 them. And it's one of those principles 423 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,520 that I've adopted over the years that has helped me a lot of 424 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,040 where I don't have to walk in that I'm the leader. 425 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,360 Don't you know, I'm the leader. I, I don't need you. 426 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,880 Like, I think we all kind of know what my role is here, but 427 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,240 it doesn't make me better than you. 428 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,040 And do we really agree? Because if we don't agree, let's 429 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,880 just admit it. But I'm, I'm the one established 430 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,040 as the leader here. So God has brought you here. 431 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,960 So why has God brought you here? What do you have to learn? 432 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,160 One thing that's also helped me is the timer's running down here 433 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,000 again. But one thing that's also helped 434 00:24:53,000 --> 00:25:00,000 me on the other side is remembering that God put this 435 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,480 man in my life, and he did it for a reason. 436 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,720 So if you gave me the direction and I didn't like it, God put 437 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,120 that person in my life. Yeah. 438 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,560 He's my pastor. He's my friend. 439 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,640 All right. I made the commit. 440 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,160 You. You said that you wanted to take 441 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,360 a vacation day and join me. Well, this is what it's about. 442 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:20,320 You. You. 443 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:23,520 I didn't. I asked you and you said yes, 444 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,960 which implies like mindedness in a sense of you want to do 445 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,880 something I want to do with you. But now that we're 15 minutes 446 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,560 into it and you wish you got your vacation day back, 447 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,360 obviously God's teaching you something because you're not 448 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:39,680 getting it back. This is God's will for us today. 449 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,160 And I, I would have to remember God put this man in my life. 450 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,720 And so then my question would become, Lord, why? 451 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,200 What are you doing in my life? What am I missing here? 452 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,560 Whatever the prayer might be. Yeah, personally, God put you in 453 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,920 my life because I needed your gift of exhortation. 454 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:04,920 I needed have that. Yes, you do, but I need that 455 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,560 after so many years, you can think, OK, I got this, but you 456 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,360 know, you don't have it. You don't have it all. 457 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:17,960 And so perspective, we know both Jeannie and I know we're here 458 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,400 because God put us here and for this season of our life. 459 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,600 And it's super helpful because if we were on our own, it's just 460 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,120 so much easier to start kind of building your own little Kingdom 461 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,640 and lose some perspective. And I and I think of their in 462 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,360 interactions I have with you and Genie at times and they'll be 463 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:37,840 just a quick yeah, we'll just do it. 464 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,240 And that you're at you're you've been processing it for days and 465 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,360 days and days. And then you come to me and I'm 466 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:48,520 like, yeah, Bob, just do it. And then you go, OK, But that's 467 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,640 that's my like I it obviously it's not, it's not my life. 468 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,360 I I think days and days for things pertaining to my life, 469 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,040 but in but in the people that are surrounded with as you 470 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,080 process it. God would bring me in my in me 471 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,320 into your life to go yeah or no, don't do that. 472 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,320 No, I don't think that's good. I don't think no, I I really 473 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,680 don't think that's healthy. It's also me your decision. 474 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,040 That's where like minded is it's if you decide whatever I say 475 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:14,120 whatever your decision is all right. 476 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,040 God bless you if it's not sin. Yeah. 477 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,520 If you don't make room for this freedom, you will stifle people. 478 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,600 You will hurt people. You'll become that benevolent 479 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,720 dictator. And what happens to a benevolent 480 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,440 dictator? They become unbenevolent. 481 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,240 Malevolent, I guess, is the word. 482 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,160 They don't stay that way. You nobody's intent. 483 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,360 Nobody, not even our own, not not only, not even the character 484 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:44,840 and nature of our creator could be described as a benevolent 485 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,280 dictator. He, he is a God who loves and 486 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,600 serves his creation. He certainly gives direction, 487 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,160 and he certainly prescribes what's best for his creation. 488 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,160 Right. What's best? 489 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,840 That's what he's doing. It's what's best for his 490 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,480 creation. And we don't want to hurt people 491 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,720 and we don't want we want to minimize the strife. 492 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,000 And one of the ways that I've learned to minimize the strife 493 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,640 is through like mindedness. And just a quick illustration, 494 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,480 we see this in the Old Testament when the children of Israel were 495 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,440 fighting with the Amalekites. And Moses gathers, gathers them 496 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,960 together and tells Joshua to go fight them. 497 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:24,400 And he goes up onto the hill with Aaron and her. 498 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,360 Everybody had a role and the one that had the worst rule was 499 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,440 Joshua. If you know, Can you imagine? 500 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:31,920 What do you mean? Aaron gets to go up there? 501 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,440 You're taking your brother up there, huh? 502 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,400 You know why? Why did your brother get to be 503 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:36,960 in safety? And I'm going to go risk my 504 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,280 life. You can think of all the fleshly 505 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:44,520 responses which are not in the Bible because Moses did what he 506 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,000 was supposed to do. Aaron and her did what they were 507 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,480 supposed to do. Joshua and the elders and the 508 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,960 fighters did what they supposed to do. 509 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,480 And what happened? Victory. 510 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,760 And that to me is like mindedness. 511 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,320 If we're all I know we have different roles, different 512 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,240 responsibilities, even more that it might be more dangerous or 513 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,360 more hard or more strenuous, whatever it might be. 514 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,280 But as we're all doing what God's called us to do together, 515 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,680 that's where victory comes coming to an end. 516 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,160 Again, I have another episode of the Lead to Serve podcast with 517 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,480 Pastor Ed Taylor. I'm in studio with Bob Klaykamp. 518 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,920 He's a pastor for missions assist he overseas that 519 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,960 ministry. He is the leader. 520 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,120 You could even say he's the head of the organization of a 521 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:35,080 ministry that serve seeks to serve churches around the world 522 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,600 and God is using him greatly in many, many different ways. 523 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,760 And if you have any feedback on our podcast, give it to us. 524 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,480 Make sure you like and four five star 10 star the podcast on. 525 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,640 However you get your podcast, it helps the algorithm. 526 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,080 Definitely post it on your social media. 527 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,520 If one of the topics helped or if you have any questions you 528 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:06,600 want to follow up text, text me 720-608-0012. 529 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,440 You can also e-mail me ed@edtaylor.org and Bob can be 530 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:18,800 reached at bobclaycamp.com. Bob Claycamp dot com his Bible 531 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,880 studies are there all kinds of information on his life and 532 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,240 ministry is there as well. And so until next time from the 533 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,400 lead to serve podcast team, God bless you guys. 534 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,520 Until next time. We're going to be back with our 535 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,600 next episode, talking about the things of the Lord together. 536 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,760 Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead to Serve 537 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,120 with Pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary 538 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,920 Church in Aurora, Co. If you have a leadership 539 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,400 question you want to hear answered on a future Lead to 540 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,600 Serve podcast, please e-mail it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co dot 541 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,600 church. And if you like our podcast, 542 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,280 please subscribe, rate or review us on iTunes and share us with 543 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,680 your friends on social media. Thanks again for joining us, and 544 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,400 we'll see you next time right here on the Lead to Serve 545 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:02,160 podcast.