1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,480 Calvary Church Presents Lead to Serve, a Leadership Podcast with 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:14,360 Ed Taylor. Welcome again to another episode 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,400 of the Lead to Serve podcast. My name is Ed Taylor. 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,920 I'm the pastor here at Calvary Church in Aurora, Co. 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:30,960 I've been married for 35 years this year, 35 years this year. 6 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,640 I have three kids. They're all grown. 7 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,920 My oldest son, Eddie, went home to be with the Lord 10 years 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:42,040 ago, almost 11 years ago now. And I also have another son. 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,600 Josh, serves here at the church, one of our administrative 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,840 pastors, and he has excelled in ministry in ways that I could 11 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,560 never excel. I'm proud of him while God's 12 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,760 doing in his life. And my daughter, she also is an 13 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,040 expert with communications and social media and so many 14 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,880 different things and grateful to, you know, be alive. 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:12,520 Really it's the grace of God to be alive and to have a life that 16 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:19,000 is live for the Lord. And today I I want to spring a 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,640 brand new topic. We, it's not on our notes. 18 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,000 It's just going to, we're going to talk as if I pull a brother 19 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,600 in my office and we're going to talk about this. 20 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,960 It's kind of like how the podcast is to begin with, except 21 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:35,720 that I didn't tell Bob I was going to do this. 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,080 I'm just going to do it. So first of all, I want to 23 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,640 welcome Bob into our studio today. 24 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,200 Welcome again for another episode. 25 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:44,080 Yeah, it's great. Should be interesting. 26 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,720 Are you ready for the surprise? Yeah. 27 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:46,520 Let's do it. Yeah. 28 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,560 I don't think it's going to be as big a surprise as you want, 29 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,880 but I do think I I do need to talk about it. 30 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,800 I do want to talk about it. So before we get to it, I want 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,640 to remind you that the Lead to Serve podcast is designed to 32 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,200 help you grow in your servant leadership. 33 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,520 Of course we're coming to you from the perspective of pastors. 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,480 That's who we are. That's how we spend and invest 35 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,520 our lives in pastoral ministry. But don't let that throw you. 36 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,760 We're not merely pastors. It's like that's not the only We 37 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,880 have all kinds of roles in society. 38 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,640 And before we were ever a pastor, we were believers. 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,120 So you can think of it just as a brothers, couple, brothers 40 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,280 talking to you about life and ministry and how to serve well. 41 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,320 Because I know that's why you are attracted to this podcast. 42 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,600 You want to serve well. So if you're a pastor, going to 43 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,480 be helpful as a pastor. Dad, mom, single as a boss, as 44 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,160 an employee across the board. Pastor Bob Clay camp. 45 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,160 He has 50 plus years of pastoral ministry experience. 46 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,960 I'm in the 30 year range of pastoral ministry experience. 47 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,040 So combined 80 years. But that's not where the power 48 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,520 is. The power is not in our 49 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,840 experience. The power is in the word of God 50 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,040 and being yielded to the Holy Spirit in these conversations 51 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,520 and that what they are, they're not scripted, although we do 52 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,240 have some we do. We do have some thoughts of how 53 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,840 to you know what direction we're going for sure. 54 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,560 And then we're seeing a theme develop. 55 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,360 The theme for this season, developing is growing into 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,040 deeper effectiveness skills to be more usable. 57 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,640 Like you're just asking the question, how can I be more 58 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:25,480 usable or I feel stuck in a rut? How can I move forward? 59 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,360 That seems to be what this season is, so welcome aboard. 60 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,800 Remember, give us your feedback. I put a good review on Spotify 61 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,640 or Apple Podcasts or Google Podcast, however you get it, 62 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,520 because that helps the algorithm. 63 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,360 Any feedback, any input, any appreciation, any topics that 64 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:48,600 you want us to cover? Text me 720-608-0012. 65 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:54,480 That'll ping my phone, 720-608-0012 or e-mail me 66 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,160 ed@edtaylor.org. That's EDTAYLO r.org. 67 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:05,360 Bob also has an e-mail and a website, bobclaycamp.com, or you 68 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,800 can e-mail him at bob@bobclaycamp.com. 69 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,200 But anything that comes into me that references Bob, I'll make 70 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,360 sure to get to him as well. So here's the topic. 71 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,399 My pastor died, Jeff Johnson, and I don't know what we're 72 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:23,360 going to end up titling this, but it's recent. 73 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,680 It's fresh on my mind. And I want to talk about a few 74 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,800 things related to losing your pastor or watching your pastor 75 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,080 die or seeing him suffer or what the future holds. 76 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:42,080 And the first one is, is how much God has put pastors in our 77 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,840 lives, more than we get to pick our pastor. 78 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,680 I think there's a sense in our culture, this emphasis on 79 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,840 independence, this emphasis on my choice and my, that I can go 80 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,280 to this church and I don't like this church and I can't be fed. 81 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:00,280 So I'm going to go and find me a pastor on YouTube or whatever. 82 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:03,960 I don't believe and I am speaking from personal 83 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,080 experience. I don't believe that really is 84 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,080 God's heart. Like I do believe you can go to 85 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,920 another church and God could use that, obviously. 86 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,840 But Pastor Jeff Johnson who pastored faithfully for 50 years 87 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,280 at Calvary Chapel and Downey, God chose this man for me. 88 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,560 And I'll tell you how I'm lost. Could care less about church. 89 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,200 I don't know anything about Calvary Chapel, neither do I 90 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:38,360 care. Anything like church is like as 91 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,000 far as you can think in my life. Get invited to church, I get 92 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,840 saved. And I believe that if God called 93 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:49,040 me there and I didn't have this concept, like I wasn't didn't 94 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,360 even read the Bible yet. I didn't even own a Bible when I 95 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,400 got saved. I had to go to the store and buy 96 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,920 one. But now looking back and looking 97 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,600 at some of the struggles I had in that church and wanting to 98 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,560 leave because I was upset about something like we all do, that 99 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:06,480 God affirmed to me that he chose Jeff Johnson for me, not the 100 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,560 other way around. Do you have any initial thoughts 101 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,440 on that topic or that thought? Well, I think that especially in 102 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,760 those beginning days of walking with the Lord, the Lord uses 103 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,960 those men in your life to help lay a foundation. 104 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,920 The shock is you initially hold them to such a high standard 105 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,280 because they know all about the Bible and you don't. 106 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,320 And then the longer you're with them, you find that they are 107 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,280 human and that maybe they responded in the flesh one time 108 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,840 and it shocked you. And you go, well, you know, how 109 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:44,440 can they be anointed by God and look what they did? 110 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,880 And you focus on the error instead of the overall. 111 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,040 And I realized that there are abuses. 112 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:58,120 There have been spiritual abuses of leaders, but you can't throw 113 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,160 them all under the bus because a few of them have not behaved 114 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:09,240 well and have not been faithful. And I think that I look back on 115 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,360 my life and the people that God put in the 1st 8 1/2 years of my 116 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,400 life. Some of them was. 117 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,400 Some of it was pretty challenging. 118 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,680 We were in a Christian youth ministry that, I mean, it was a 119 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:29,800 pretty high self, pretty high sacrifice environment and 120 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,920 sometimes there were things that were done that were just harsh 121 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,400 and I didn't understand it at the time. 122 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,760 But now looking back on it, given what they had to deal 123 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,040 with, that's that's how they responded. 124 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,680 And you know, God used it. And I think we need to step back 125 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,760 for a second and make some assumptions. 126 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,320 No abuse, No sin. No, obviously there are times 127 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,840 when you got to leave a church. I'm talking about this sense of 128 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,800 the minor things. I don't like his jokes. 129 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:10,520 I don't like his teaching style. I don't like the the preference. 130 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,800 We talked about this when it came to worship, you know, 131 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,760 years, a couple years ago, how we elevate preferences to 132 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,320 something other than than than what they really need to be. 133 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,920 Where we live in a day and age where certainly where the Bible 134 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,920 says that in the last days with our itching ears, we're going to 135 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,680 keep up teachers for ourselves. But that happens in this 136 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,480 consumer culture to begin with, where God put a pastor in your 137 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,000 life, like and he put that pastor in your life. 138 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:40,080 Again, no, no abuse. Obviously if there's abuse, 139 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,039 you're not, do not submit to that. 140 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:44,800 That is not the heart of God. We're just talking normal men 141 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,040 like you said, normal mistakes and things that I believe. 142 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,800 God would put you under the leadership of a particular 143 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,200 pastor so that you could see those mistakes and learn from 144 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,560 them. So you could respond to that 145 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:59,000 personality and learn from them so that you could learn 146 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,640 submission. You can learn honor, you can 147 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,480 learn obedience. Even the Bible. 148 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:09,760 The Bible says to obey your leaders and learn how to live 149 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,360 life outside of yourself. And one of the primary tools 150 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,040 that God uses in our lives are pastors. 151 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,920 And while we may have preferences, it's important that 152 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,160 we accept that God puts pastors in our lives on purpose. 153 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,640 That's true. I think that I grew so much 154 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,280 under my first pastor, who was John Higgins. 155 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,480 Yes. And while he has his own way of 156 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,040 doing things and his own personality and all that, there 157 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:50,360 were lessons of discipleship and endurance and focus that I don't 158 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,920 know if I would have picked up from anybody else, 'cause I 159 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,840 watched it, I watched him live it out, I watched the fruit of 160 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:02,280 it. And God puts those models, like, 161 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,480 like Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ. 162 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,680 One of the things that I'd like to teach in terms of ministry is 163 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:13,520 where Moses has Aaron and her holding up his arms. 164 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,080 And what an uncomfortable place that must have been for Aaron 165 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:22,480 and her to be out on a hot day on the armpits of Moses, knowing 166 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,080 that as they position themselves in such a way where his arms 167 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,720 were up, there was victory. And when they fell, there was 168 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,960 defeat and they wanted victory. So they did whatever it needed 169 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,520 to you and I, I refer to that as the Armpit ministry. 170 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,280 And and really, if you think about it, a lot of ministries 171 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,520 that way, like, like, you're dealing with the reality I if 172 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,200 I'm around Bob long enough, I'm going to see weaknesses in Bob 173 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,120 and Bob's around Ed long enough. We're we're humans. 174 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,480 And I, I, I, I want you guys listening right now. 175 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,360 Even if you're a pastor, a leader, God put you in someone's 176 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,080 life to minister to them. And one of the reasons it hurts 177 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:02,000 when somebody leaves or bails or quits on you is that you value 178 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,080 that relationship. Now let's talk relationship real 179 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,080 quick. And then I want to talk about my 180 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,760 love for Pastor Jeff for a second. 181 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,760 But Pastor Jeff and I were not close. 182 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,200 He wasn't that kind of man. Pastor Jeff was about the age of 183 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,080 my dad and and you are as well. You're probably a little bit 184 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,120 younger than my dad. Like Pastor Jeff was a little 185 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,120 bit younger than my dad. And he came from a generation. 186 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,400 You put your head down, you work. 187 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,680 That's how I express. That's how my dad expressed 188 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:31,080 love. He worked, took care of the 189 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,160 family, didn't have to worry about anything. 190 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,480 He worked overtime and just go, go, go. 191 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,200 If he was sick, he went to work if it like that's just how he 192 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,400 was and that he he wasn't super affectionate. 193 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,120 There wasn't a lot of hugging in my life, but I knew he loved me 194 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,400 because I I figured it out somehow. 195 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,160 That's how he expresses his love for me. 196 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,560 So Pastor Jeff, very similar. I didn't. 197 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,320 I was there for eight years, and in eight years I probably spoke 198 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:59,680 to the man three times and it wasn't very substantive because 199 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,320 he was fulfilling his call and if you don't understand that, 200 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,200 you'll be offended. But he wasn't mean spirited at 201 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,120 all. He was a great guy, very 202 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:14,840 affable, very fun, very funny. He just had a call to pastor a 203 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,400 Church of six, 7000 people and he was surrounded by, I don't 204 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,320 know, 12-13 pastors, of which those are the ones I did serve 205 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,680 with one man in particular, Rudy Cardenas, who was the children's 206 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:30,440 ministry pastor. He's the one I got a lot of time 207 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,680 with. Although the time I got with him 208 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,880 wasn't like hanging out. Buddy, buddy going fishing 209 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,120 because guess what? He had a call too. 210 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,160 To take care of those kids. I mean, the scope of the 211 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,920 ministry at Downey, when I was serving there on Wednesday 212 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,880 night, we served over 300 kids, not including junior high and 213 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,280 high school. I mean, the place was rocking, 214 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,720 man. It was, it was unbelievable what 215 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,280 we were a part of and it was amazing. 216 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,040 But Pastor Rudy, also, he had his own calling. 217 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,960 And so the time, the most time that I spent with him was 218 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,000 serving with him, being alongside of him and going to 219 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:09,360 funerals with him or being in proximity so that I could learn 220 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,560 and grow and he could speak into my life And. 221 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,720 And so sometimes there's these expectations that men and women 222 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,520 place on pastors that are just unfair and unreal, where, you 223 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,160 know, we want to be your friend and can you come to our house 224 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,880 and have dinner? I would love to come to your 225 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,600 house and have dinner, But. But if I accepted every 226 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,600 invitation that I received from the precious flock that I have, 227 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,080 even when the church was much smaller, I would never have 228 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,600 dinner with my family. And so I have to schedule it or 229 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,480 I have to say no more often than yes. 230 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,520 And Jeff would. Pastor Jeff was like that. 231 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,120 So someone had text me. I'm so sorry that you 232 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,360 experienced the loss of Pastor Jeff. 233 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,560 I know he was a mentor to you. I want to explain that too. 234 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,600 I can say very definitively that he was a mentor to me, however, 235 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,600 not how people use that word. Like so he didn't sit me down 236 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,280 and say, Ed, this is how you're supposed to do this. 237 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,760 You have to do this. What he did to what he did, how 238 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,160 he mentored me, is he taught me the Bible. 239 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,160 That's what he did. He taught me the Bible. 240 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,120 Sunday mornings taught me the Bible. 241 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,400 Wednesday nights taught me the Bible. 242 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,240 If he had a vacation or a mission trip, guess what? 243 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,280 He had somebody there to teach me the Bible, and from a 244 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,240 distance I could watch and from a. 245 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,360 Discipleship from a distance. Yes. 246 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,080 And the episodes that he had, if he did a leadership thing, then 247 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,320 he taught us as a group, like over the years, You begin to 248 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:41,240 appreciate everybody's different roles so that you also give room 249 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,080 for those that are in your life to be who they are without any 250 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,680 unrealistic expectations. Because pastors, they die the 251 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,920 death of unrealistic expectations. 252 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,680 And so for Pastor Jeff, I had to receive that. 253 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,800 This is the man got put in my life and this is what God wants 254 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,200 him to do in my life. He wants me to, he wants that 255 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,280 man to pray, study and teach me the Bible. 256 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,640 And that's what he did and and help me tremendously become a 257 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,720 man, a husband, a dad, an employee, eventually a boss, a 258 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,320 leader, an elder, a pastor, a church planner. 259 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,760 And Jeff would sit down. He's like, I didn't know I did 260 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,080 any of that. Like, how did I do that? 261 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,280 I was out surfing, you know, I was hanging with my grandkids, 262 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,440 you know, I was living life. Not that in lieu of ministry, 263 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,640 like I'm being facetious in some regards, although he did that 264 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,560 get days off. But he's praying, studying, 265 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:43,600 teaching and I'm in a mode of receiving. 266 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,040 And I think it's important for everyone listening here to know 267 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,960 that and not underestimate that. The systematic teaching of the 268 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:58,240 Bible is discipleship. It is not replaced even what 269 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,080 gets read into the life of Jesus. 270 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,600 Jesus in his discipleship was unique. 271 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,120 He was training men to save the world and eat. 272 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,640 We fall short. We obviously this is where 273 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,960 people take things too far or you should disciple like Jesus. 274 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,960 That I know. Yes, I agree. 275 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,280 However, you already begin to make exceptions when you're not 276 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,560 willing to quit your job and live with me for three years. 277 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,640 I mean that nobody does that because that's not realistic. 278 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,280 So we come. We approach a 1st century God in 279 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,640 human flesh model with applications that might 280 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,400 facilitate our growth. When you plant a church, it's 281 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,560 you and your family opening up your home, or maybe you and a 282 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,640 small team going to a town, and the people that first come in 283 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,520 and are with you, you have a more intimate relationship with 284 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,040 them because of just the size of things. 285 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,120 But when you step into a work that's large, you can't expect 286 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,040 that same level of intimacy with the with the leader. 287 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:09,480 It it's not, it's not practical. It's it's it just doesn't work 288 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,200 that way and and it's not just about you it's about what God is 289 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,599 doing in that particular season of of your life or the season of 290 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,359 the church life. I mean it it I've pastored a 291 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,200 medium sized church. I've pastored a very small 292 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,640 church. The dynamics are are different. 293 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:33,800 I'm here and this is a larger church and there are more a 294 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,760 different strategy in in diving in and getting to know people 295 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,800 and clarifying your expectations. 296 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,280 That word expectation keeps popping up because as a new 297 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:48,280 believer I had 0 expectation. Literally I was just wanting to 298 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:54,000 stay out of jail and maybe my wife won't leave me and I don't 299 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,840 even know what chain I I knew I was a bad person but really had 300 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,680 no knowledge of how bad I really was until the word of God and 301 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,880 and not even in a negative way just a reality way and I had no 302 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,960 expectations. However, as things began to get 303 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,560 cleaned up. As I became a different man. 304 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,480 As a born again believer. As I began to know the Bible. 305 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,360 As I listened to the Bible answer man on the radio or 306 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:22,200 whatever. All of a sudden I have these 307 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,040 expectations. All of a sudden I approached 308 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,600 Jeff when I first watched walked into that church. 309 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,600 Is this what you guys do? OK. 310 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,600 I'm ready to do it. This is what you guys do. 311 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,760 OK or ready to do it. You what is this community is 312 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,680 what you do OK. And somewhere subtly down the 313 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,880 road. Oh is this what you guys do. 314 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,560 I don't like it. Is this what you guys do? 315 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,440 I don't. I don't know what happened to 316 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,760 me. What happens to us where we go 317 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,440 in wide eyed and expectant from the Lord and now we are. 318 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:56,240 Expectations become very, very selfish and self-centered and we 319 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,800 blame the pastor for things. We blame the church for things. 320 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,360 That it's nothing to do with the pastor of the church. 321 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:02,960 It's all. You. 322 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,640 But that's human relationships. Yeah, I mean, all of a sudden 323 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,280 you, you meet this girl and it's just like amazing. 324 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,720 And then and then you spend time with her and she with you, and 325 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,680 after a while, you know it's amazing. 326 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,840 The things that you first saw as enchanting and so, so cool after 327 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,200 a while become kind of different. 328 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,200 And then and then even after a while, it's like they're so 329 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,520 annoying. Those very same things, you know 330 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,440 now they're annoying and they're like break you're ready to break 331 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,600 relationship because how, how odd, you know, what kind of an 332 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,720 odd bird is this and and but those are the same things that 333 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,240 drew you is this human relationship. 334 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,360 Of course it when it comes to the church, maybe your pastor 335 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,000 listening and or a leader and you had somebody leave. 336 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,040 You know the in a Bible teaching church like ours, the thing that 337 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,920 we hear the most is, Oh yeah, I'm not being fed anymore. 338 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,320 You know that's like taking somebody to a buffet and they 339 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,880 sit at the table. Yeah, I'm not. 340 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,280 I'm hungry. I'm not being fed. 341 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,640 The food's right there. It's all served for you. 342 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,640 Like just pick it up and put it in your mouth. 343 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,040 Like what's trying to be communicated is something 344 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,840 completely different than not being fed. 345 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,560 There's preferences and everything, but I just think 346 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,360 back as I've been thinking about Pastor Jeff since his passing. 347 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:27,480 Just God chose that man for me. And I had to learn to appreciate 348 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,400 that after I became so haughty and high minded and prideful 349 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:33,280 because it didn't start out that way. 350 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,760 In the beginning it was like, Oh yes, Oh yes, Oh yes. 351 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,120 Something changed and like, oh, I don't know. 352 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:39,600 And you know, you hear people too. 353 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,280 You hear gossip, you hear complaining, you hear and like, 354 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,600 oh, I didn't know. Oh yeah, it's it's like what I 355 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,160 wore in our church, like stop gossiping, be like you don't 356 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,840 even. Those folks were just living 357 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,440 their life, like loving the Lord until you came and started 358 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,200 soiling their mind with this stuff. 359 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,920 Now they're upset like you are and they weren't upset before 360 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,360 you showed up. So stop it. 361 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:00,920 Stop sinning. It's defiling. 362 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,120 But I think back to those years and now 30 years later and the 363 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,200 relationship that we did develop, I and the more I did 364 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,400 get to understand him and his wife and and the more I did get 365 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,360 to serve, I mean, jeez, I got to serve alongside of him. 366 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,000 I served at conferences with him. 367 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,400 I taught him, I taught at his church while he's sitting there 368 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,600 with his like to your own your own pastor. 369 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,920 But then I learned that although he is always my pastor, there 370 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,600 wasn't semblance where I got to serve alongside of him when we 371 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,640 were Co laborers together, where I didn't just hold up his arms, 372 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,520 but I held up his arms by filling the pulpit that God 373 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,920 entrusted to him. And so you know it's a bummer 374 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,200 when a good man dies. You know, we had Pastor Avon 375 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,920 passed away here in our own church recently. 376 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,440 And and when I shared at the memorial, I shared like when a 377 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:51,560 good man dies, like with Isaiah, when everything changed for 378 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,600 Isaiah when King Uzziah died, that's when everybody's eyes 379 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,720 opened up and that's when Isaiah is very well could have had his 380 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,160 eyes on the king. And when his eyes were off the 381 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,600 king and back on the Lord, he saw the Lord high and lifted up. 382 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:07,480 And so it's hard. Have you ever lost a pastor in 383 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,240 your life in the last few years like that and to death? 384 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,400 I have some friends, some colleagues. 385 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:19,040 Colleagues. Charlie Johnson started almost 386 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:26,480 He was in Apache Junction, AZ. Cole labored a long time there. 387 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:33,760 He always had heart issues. I've had other people that do 388 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,600 you just sense actually the Phil Pachonas over in England. 389 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,480 He was the one that and I watched him go down. 390 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,600 He had, he had stomach cancer and then he had sip sepsis. 391 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:54,160 And I watched him go down and it was, you know, kind of rocked my 392 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,960 world because he was quite a visionary on what could have 393 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,600 happened in the southwestern part of England. 394 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,680 And with that voice no longer there, I had to get my eyes back 395 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,720 on the Lord and saying the Lord is you and me. 396 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,360 And although I like that, that he was there and spoke into my 397 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:16,120 life and all and was an inspiration, the Lord is my has 398 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:20,880 to be my inspiration ultimately. And so it was a reminder for me. 399 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,240 You know, we were over there when Pastor Chuck passed away. 400 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,760 We knew that day was probably coming, but then it's like a 401 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,080 slap in the face. Oh yeah, yeah. 402 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,040 And then a year later, Phil went. 403 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,000 And so it's like boom, boom. And yeah, so the. 404 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,760 I mean, that's But it's just the reality of life though. 405 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,520 It is, and we have to be ready for it. 406 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,520 I would even add to that, that while our pastors are alive, we 407 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:52,120 should remember them, encourage them, serve them like that. 408 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,000 That's important. And even if you're a pastor 409 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,360 listening right now and you're kind of like Amen, Amen, even in 410 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,880 your role as a brother, you have that opportunity to pour into 411 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,560 your pastor, encourage. And now, of course, if you have 412 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,160 lost your pastor because of of abuse or something, then develop 413 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,600 a real close relationship where you invite someone into your 414 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,000 life to speak hard things to you or to give you direction because 415 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,880 you also need you. You also need someone in your 416 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,080 life like Paul, that can speak forth the word of God into your 417 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,360 life in a fresh way. Not well. 418 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:27,080 You know, my pastors on the radio or my pastors, that that's 419 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,280 not technically possible. Pastoral ministry and 420 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,080 relationships are personal, not technological. 421 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:34,800 So it has to come second. There's. 422 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,360 No accountability when you're just doing it online, right 423 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,880 there is. And God has designed that 424 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,840 accountability in the body of Christ. 425 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,040 And without that, you're kind of a loose cannon. 426 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,040 Yeah, well, I just want to thank God publicly for Pastor Jeff 427 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,000 Johnson. He's happy. 428 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,320 We're sad and and as I remind and and really as we're talking 429 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,600 about some of these difficulties. 430 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,680 I really never had a problem with Pastor Jeff. 431 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:04,960 I questioned a couple of his of of his choices as pastor before 432 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,800 where I that's only because I was so desperate to be on staff. 433 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,440 I wanted so desperately to be a staff pastor and he would bring 434 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,960 up somebody and that they got it and I didn't they need to bring 435 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,000 up someone they got it and I didn't but that was not a pastor 436 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,080 Jeff problem. That was an Ed problem. 437 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,520 That was all me and I had to learn that though I had to learn 438 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,720 that. I'll give you a quick quite 439 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,600 we're winding down today. I got two things to share on 440 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,040 this episode. But on the last guy he he 441 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:40,200 brought up he called him as Timothy and and and it was just 442 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,440 I'm I was so upset and I'm like doesn't even know who I am 443 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,720 doesn't even know what I do. All it was so it was so bad and 444 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,600 and I I had decided we are going to another church at this my 445 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,560 this. And I had all my reasons that 446 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:57,240 were invalid completely. But on the way out I had to tell 447 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,680 my overseeing pastors And so the first guy I go to he was 448 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,720 overseeing me in a couple ministries and I made an 449 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,280 appointment with them and and I went in and I'm out of here and 450 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,480 he goes, where are you going? And I'm like no I'm serious. 451 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,280 I'm leaving this church And I, you know because of so and so is 452 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,120 a new pastor here and Jeff doesn't know me and he just lets 453 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:19,480 me talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk And he 454 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,880 pauses there in his office. I have a visual memory so I 455 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,040 remember it And I don't remember the exact words but I got the 456 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,000 whole visual sitting in his office there and he lets me talk 457 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,000 and he says OK so where you going? 458 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,400 I don't know anywhere but here. I don't know yet. 459 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,960 Oh, so you know your God's going to lead you out of the church 460 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,800 and your family's just going to be out there all by, you know, 461 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,440 he's giving me great counsel but kind of being edgy about it 462 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,760 because I was edgy about it. And then he told me something 463 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,240 that that he wasn't really known for these Nuggets of truth. 464 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,280 But this was a nugget that I'll never forget. 465 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,440 He looked at me after everything was said and done, and we're 466 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,720 pretty much wrapping up. And he said so. 467 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,280 Ed, you think your pastor's bigger than God? 468 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,480 Like, what are you talking about? 469 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,400 What are you talking? Yeah, it's really sounds like 470 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,640 you you're giving Pastor Jeff way more credit for what's going 471 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,200 on than God, because obviously God's doing a work here and and 472 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,360 he's doing a work with that guy that's up on the stage. 473 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:17,680 But look what he's doing with you. 474 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,560 And I'm like, oh man, I didn't even make the appointment with 475 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,640 the other pastor. Like, like, I'm like, you're so 476 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:26,680 right. I'm so wrong. 477 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,080 I mean, I'm tearing up thinking about it. 478 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,000 I was so wrong. It had nothing to do with my 479 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,680 pastor. It had everything to do with me. 480 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,720 And then God put one of his assistants in my life, Glenn, 481 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:41,080 who was just speaking for, like, just talk, talk, talk. 482 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,480 It's like you, you know? And and really the word he 483 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,960 wanted to tell me is God is bigger. 484 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,240 You can trust God. God's doing something here. 485 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,360 And now I look back, I can see a couple things he was doing. 486 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,640 And one of them was he didn't want me on stuff there. 487 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,200 He wanted me to keep my job. And there's probably a lot of 488 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,880 reasons, but one of them is he wanted to keep my job because 489 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,520 through a lot of those, that's how I moved to Colorado, that 490 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,360 job he wanted me to be on that teaching that I still listen to 491 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:11,560 Pastor Jeff almost every day. He that's the man that God gave 492 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,640 me a ear to hear his teaching. And that's the man that God 493 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,200 would surround him with and have these people pastor me. 494 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,560 And that's how I like, I can go through it to run away because 495 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,320 somebody even offered me in those early days, an assistant 496 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,840 pastor job. And I see the potential in you, 497 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,120 and you're going to be a great pastor one day. 498 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,560 And I'm telling you, man, I was so tempted because that's all I 499 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,120 wanted, was notoriety in the title. 500 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,160 And I didn't want the Lord. And fortunately I I had enough 501 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,720 sense and so did Marie to help me as my wife. 502 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,800 Just in it was young. I was like a couple years on the 503 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,000 Lord, like I was all jacked up still. 504 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,240 I still like I needed a lot of maturity and maybe this pastor 505 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,720 did see something in me. That's great. 506 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,360 But it wasn't the will of the Lord. 507 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,440 It wasn't God had work for me to do. 508 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,760 And and so I want to thank God for longevity. 509 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,200 I thank you for the 29 years you gave to North Phoenix. 510 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,240 I thanks God for the 50 years that Pastor Jeff gave to Downey. 511 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,640 And I mean, he's one of those low key, under the radar, 512 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,800 doesn't get a lot of attention pastors, but the fruit from his 513 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,120 ministry, there are literally people around. 514 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,280 I was just texting or excuse me, emailing with a brother, Jeff 515 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,640 and his wife, Christina, who's serving in Georgia. 516 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,480 They were the cutting edge families that planted all the 517 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,520 churches in Vladimir. Maybe even connected to when you 518 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,800 lost, you lost or left your wife in Siberia on purpose it. 519 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,960 Was not purpose. But you know, I was just texting 520 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,040 with Jeff and what God's doing here and his Jeff's brothers in 521 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,040 Idaho, doing a great work in Twin Falls and and on and on. 522 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,800 I mean, there's so many people in Colorado that came out of 523 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,600 Downey pastoring churches here as well, so just wanted to get 524 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,000 that out. It's been on my mind kind of a 525 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,760 spur of the moment topic, but God picks your pastor for you 526 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,120 and you should do what the Bible says. 527 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,960 Remember your leaders who have taught you the word of God. 528 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,920 Think of all the good is come from their lives and follow the 529 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,160 example of their faith. Obey your spiritual leaders, Do 530 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,920 what they say. Their work is to watch over your 531 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,120 souls and they are accountable to God. 532 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,120 Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. 533 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,800 That would certainly not be for your benefit. 534 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,840 And finally, greet all your leaders and all the believers 535 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,080 there. The believers from Italy send 536 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,920 their greetings. So remember, obey. 537 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,520 Greet them, Love them. Serve your pastors. 538 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,240 And if you're a pastor and you're really going through it 539 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:48,640 right now, we're sorry. It is hard seeing people leave 540 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,920 the newest, latest thing. They got this youth group and 541 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,160 you don't have a youth group and they got this and you don't got 542 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,640 this and you but you be faithful because God has called you to a 543 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,840 calling. And you're right, you probably 544 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,760 never have a youth group like that because that's not what 545 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,600 God's will for you is. They probably don't teach the 546 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,720 Bible. So like what? 547 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,040 What is it that you want? You spend all that time teaching 548 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,240 the Bible. They use the Bible, but they 549 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,560 don't teach the Bible. And and, you know, I was 550 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,920 thinking this too, because we have people leaving the church 551 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,200 here all the time for the latest and the greatest. 552 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,360 There's always some new church, some new big things, some new 553 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,640 popular thing, new building, whatever. 554 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,920 And one of the things many years ago that the Lord just reminded 555 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,240 me of. You know, Ed, you were the new 556 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,480 church once. It's OK. 557 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,160 Let me do what I want to do with my sheep, even let them make 558 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,920 mistakes or what? Let me take care of the flock, 559 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,080 and you tend the flock that is under your care. 560 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,040 And it's, you know, it's OK. That's OK. 561 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,040 They're new things because new people are being reached, and we 562 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,160 just need to pray to be faithful in what we're doing. 563 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,800 And I have a pastor, Jeff Johnson, who's in the presence 564 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,640 of the Lord. We're praying now for his wife, 565 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,600 Karen, Tara Christie, the grand kiddos and everyone connected to 566 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,320 them, that the Lord would encourage them and strengthen 567 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,680 them. And of course, bless Pastor Art 568 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,360 and all that God's doing in the new leadership because he had 569 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,880 just handed it over to a young man to take this church and in 570 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,960 the new generation. And may the Lord continue to do 571 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:15,880 what he wants to do. Amen. 572 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,320 Amen. All right, Well, thanks for 573 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,880 sitting in through this, this impromptu session. 574 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,680 But I want you to learn how to appreciate your pastor love on 575 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,400 them, Serve them. Tell them that. 576 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,800 Write them notes. Text them. 577 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,320 Give them gifts, whatever it might be. 578 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,400 Let God use you to be an encouragement to your pastor. 579 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,080 Don't lop on them all these unrealistic expectations. 580 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,720 It breaks relationship. Let the pastor be who God's 581 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,120 called him to be. This is another episode of lead 582 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:43,920 to serve. You. 583 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,040 Have any feedback? Give it to us if you have. 584 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,520 If you want to leave a great review, please do that. 585 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,560 It doesn't take long. Just hit the five stars or write 586 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,360 a little note that the Lord's blessing you and then the 587 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,800 computer algorithm picks that up and shoots this to people that 588 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,240 are looking for a lot of podcast just like this. 589 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:07,000 You can text me directly 720-608-0012, e-mail me 590 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:12,040 ed@edtaylor.org, my website isedtaylor.org or the church 591 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:17,120 website Calvary Co dot church. So lots of information, but the 592 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,120 Lord bless you, encourage you, strengthen you, and until next 593 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,440 time stay close and stay in the grace of Jesus. 594 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,800 Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead to Serve 595 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,160 with Pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary 596 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,960 Church in Aurora, Co. If you have a leadership 597 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,440 question you want to hear answered on a future Lead to 598 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,600 Serve podcast, please e-mail it to Pastor Ed at Calvary, Co dot 599 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,640 Church. And if you like our podcast, 600 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,200 please subscribe, rate, or review us on iTunes and share us 601 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,840 with your friends on social media. 602 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,000 Thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time right 603 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,160 here on the Lead to Serve podcast.