1
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,600
Welcome to today's broadcast of 
lead to serve a leadership 

2
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:15,000
podcast with Ed Taylor. 
Welcome to a special edition of 

3
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,500
the lead to serve podcast, 
actually the beginning of a few 

4
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,900
special editions. 
My name is Ed Taylor and I have 

5
00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:25,500
the privilege of pastoring here 
at Calvary Church in Aurora, 

6
00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:28,900
Colorado. 
I also hosts a daily live 

7
00:00:28,900 --> 00:00:32,200
call-in show on radio stations 
across the country where we 

8
00:00:32,208 --> 00:00:36,900
talked about life, as it relates
to God's will for our lives with

9
00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:38,800
all the racial tensions around 
us. 

10
00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:42,000
I've invited personal friends to
join me on my radio. 

11
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,500
Show to have real raw 
discussions on racism and how 

12
00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:48,700
the Gospel of Jesus Christ 
applies. 

13
00:00:49,100 --> 00:00:52,900
We vetted him down for this 
podcast and will be airing them 

14
00:00:52,900 --> 00:00:55,400
successively here in the coming 
days. 

15
00:00:55,900 --> 00:00:59,300
I hope the Lord helps you to 
lead even more effectively in 

16
00:00:59,300 --> 00:01:04,700
this time of deep deep pain 
sorrow and difficulty as you 

17
00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:10,600
look to him, I know he will. 
Let's jump in to today's 

18
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,000
podcast. 
Hey, good afternoon and welcome 

19
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,600
to today's edition of Calvary 
live. 

20
00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,500
My name is Ed Taylor, taking 
your calls and your questions. 

21
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:28,500
We are our offices opened up 
this week, so we are back to a 

22
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:33,200
progressive normal here as the 
team is back on their regular 

23
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,400
schedule. 
But you know, as we go through 

24
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,900
this whole covid thing and and 
the the the concern that we step

25
00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:46,100
out and being a blessing, To our
community and we had never 

26
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,600
closed our church and I think 
that using that language how 

27
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,700
careful we need to be that we 
never closed our church with the

28
00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:57,900
exception of holidays. 
We had pastors here on the 

29
00:01:57,900 --> 00:02:03,000
property every single day since 
this whole thing began and there

30
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,000
might have been a couple days in
the beginning where we didn't 

31
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,200
know what we were doing or how 
to respond yet. 

32
00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:11,900
But as things got clearer we 
remained open. 

33
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,800
In. 
So it's it's good to have 

34
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,400
though, some some progress back 
to normalcy, we're looking 

35
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,400
forward to seeing more regular 
Services. 

36
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,700
We have a regular service 
tonight that you can attend in 

37
00:02:24,700 --> 00:02:27,400
person if you want to come to 
church tonight. 

38
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,200
Come in person. 
But you have to register first 

39
00:02:31,900 --> 00:02:35,200
and that's where it starts. 
So go to our website, Calvary Co

40
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,800
dot Church, Calvary Co dot 
Church. 

41
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,900
Space is limited. 
We're in the Book of Daniel and 

42
00:02:42,100 --> 00:02:46,300
Are almost done with Daniel. 
Just finishing up chapter 12. 

43
00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:49,400
And then we're on this little 
mini series of the last days. 

44
00:02:49,700 --> 00:02:53,000
And because Daniel and Genesis 
chapter 12, he's told that what 

45
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,400
he wrote should be sealed up 
till the last days and then, you

46
00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,700
understand it more. 
Well, we understand it more, we 

47
00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:03,500
believe we're in the last days. 
And so we've been looking at the

48
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,700
what the Bible has to say in 
Timothy. 

49
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,200
And now we're heading over to 
Matthew 24 of what to look for 

50
00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:14,300
in the last Last days. 
So come on out. 

51
00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:20,100
You can come here tonight here 
at Calvary Church 7 p.m. we will

52
00:03:20,900 --> 00:03:24,800
be here live all social 
distancing, all the measures 

53
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,500
CDC, almost everything that 
Colorado has requested will 

54
00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:32,700
happen masks. 
Yes, you will have to wear a 

55
00:03:32,700 --> 00:03:36,100
mask distancing. 
We rearrange this, get the 

56
00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:39,300
sanctuary. 
I think that they want 

57
00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:41,900
20-something feet between your 
worship. 

58
00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:45,500
And the first person in the row 
and I think we're almost there. 

59
00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:50,400
I think we're 25 feet from Ian 
the closest you can get to Ian. 

60
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,800
But I was thinking that because 
the drummer's always in one of 

61
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,900
those plastic cages, we should 
put in in one of those plastic 

62
00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:01,700
cages and then we'll be all be 
protected from his singing. 

63
00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:06,100
So at any rate, we do need to 
start out the show with a smile 

64
00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:08,600
because we're going to enter 
into some challenging 

65
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,800
discussions on purpose. 
We purposely ously scheduled to 

66
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,399
show the way it is today because
we want to talk about the 

67
00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:24,700
surrounding civil diff civil. 
Cultural societal challenges 

68
00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:28,800
that we're facing right now. 
We want to talk about racism, we

69
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,700
want to talk about Injustice and
we want to talk about from a 

70
00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:37,500
Biblical perspective. 
What what's the context? 

71
00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:40,300
What's a Biblical framework in 
context for what's going on in 

72
00:04:40,300 --> 00:04:44,400
the world today? 
Our, I recognize my limitations 

73
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,000
because I'm not a black man and 
so, I have limitations in my 

74
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,900
perspective that I have much to 
learn. 

75
00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:57,300
So I've invited a friend of 
mine, Pastor, John Moreland from

76
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,700
the Denver, Christian Bible 
Church in Denver and and here 

77
00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:04,900
are things I knew but I'm going 
to read them to you. 

78
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,500
I knew some of them but I'm 
going to read them to you 

79
00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:11,100
Pastor. 
John is a former police officer 

80
00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:14,500
for the US Air Course, he was 
also a police officer in New 

81
00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:16,900
Mexico Albuquerque, right? 
Correct. 

82
00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:22,400
He came to Denver in 2007 and he
was a pastor of a church for 

83
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,300
many years there until he 
planted the Denver. 

84
00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:31,200
Christian Bible Church in 2012. 
And we are in the presence of 

85
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:36,400
the president of the Colorado 
Baptist Association, and he's 

86
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,500
doing a great job with that. 
He's married to Kenna, they're 

87
00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:45,200
raising four kids. 
Cana is Cana five kids. 

88
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,800
Okay, so I've got four, we're 
missing one. 

89
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,700
So, for kids kaena. 
Is that the correct correct? 

90
00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:53,700
Ation, Jordan? 
Ashley. 

91
00:05:53,700 --> 00:05:56,400
Kendall and were missing. 
Kevin, Kevin. 

92
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,300
Kevin is our youngest, he's 
That. 

93
00:05:59,500 --> 00:06:03,400
And and so if you get that by 
off our website, we may need to 

94
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,000
update. 
Its velocity Tanya. 

95
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,500
If you're listening, let's 
update the website. 

96
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,000
So Jean, welcome to the program.
Thank you, it's a privilege to 

97
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,000
be here. 
Thanks for having me. 

98
00:06:12,100 --> 00:06:17,700
Let's go back to 2007, when you 
came to Denver, how soon after 

99
00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:20,500
you came to Denver did you? 
And I meet what year did we you?

100
00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:23,700
And I connect. 
I'm going to say it's pretty 

101
00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:26,800
close but I don't remember yeah,
pretty close to the beginning. 

102
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,300
I got here. 
December 1st. 

103
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:34,000
Six, I got called to Pastor my 
first church in December of 07 

104
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,900
and somewhere in 08, maybe 09 
you and I connected. 

105
00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:43,700
So at least ten eleven, twelve 
years, at least and it's been a 

106
00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:48,300
neat growing friendship that 
we've had Ministry relationship 

107
00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:51,600
friendship and it's been a 
blessing to have you in my life.

108
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,800
And now, I don't know any other 
way than just to jump in. 

109
00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:03,700
We have We have great, we have 
great trouble in our culture 

110
00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:04,600
right now. 
Yeah. 

111
00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,800
And this particular, the 
particular difficulty that that 

112
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,900
we see today started, I think 
the context of what's happening 

113
00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:19,600
with Ahmad Barberie, is that 
with that? 

114
00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:21,600
I think that is my pronouncing 
that right? 

115
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:28,100
Kevin and And then we had George
Floyd and then it seems like all

116
00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:30,300
hell has broken loose in our 
culture. 

117
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,500
How let me ask, let me start 
with this. 

118
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,900
How are you doing as personally 
as a man as a black man right 

119
00:07:38,900 --> 00:07:43,600
now, just personally seeing and 
watching all of this unfold. 

120
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:50,400
Yeah I think I've run the gamut 
of emotions over the last, you 

121
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,700
know, week or two today right 
now. 

122
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,300
And I was thinking about this 
when I was in downstairs washing

123
00:07:56,300 --> 00:08:00,300
my hands today, right now is the
first time I have felt somewhat 

124
00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:03,800
encouraged since all this kind 
of began to happen. 

125
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:10,800
And so, frankly, I've been 
angry, I've been confused, I've 

126
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:20,600
been theologically challenged, I
have been sad, so probably a 

127
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,800
gamut of emotions today. 
I feel hope. 

128
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:26,100
Awful. 
I feel like the Lord has spoken 

129
00:08:26,100 --> 00:08:31,500
to me through his word and 
through his Holy Spirit and so I

130
00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:36,200
feel like I have a healthier 
Outlook today than I've had in 

131
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,600
the last two weeks. 
Probably, the reason I wanted to

132
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,000
start out with this question in 
this because that's what I 

133
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,200
started out when I called you 
tomorrow. 

134
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,300
I'm going to have my friend Bill
Buffington he and I go way back 

135
00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:51,600
to California when he started. 
I was just a volunteer at that 

136
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:57,100
church and he had just started. 
Position as helping in the 

137
00:08:57,100 --> 00:09:00,500
lunchroom at the school there 
and we had a mutual friend that 

138
00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:03,400
saw our personalities and she 
said you got to meet Bill. 

139
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,200
You got to beat Mill and so Bill
and I go way way back, 20 plus 

140
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,900
years and when I called him I 
asked them the same thing 

141
00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:15,200
because if you're on social 
media I'm certain you're not 

142
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,800
getting that question. 
If you're watching the news that

143
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,700
questions not coming up. 
If depending on the circle of 

144
00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:26,900
People in your life, for 
example, if you post, I'm not on

145
00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:29,300
Facebook anymore. 
So I don't know what people are 

146
00:09:29,308 --> 00:09:31,700
posting on Facebook. 
That's a different show for a 

147
00:09:31,708 --> 00:09:34,100
different time because I just 
can't handle it. 

148
00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:36,900
But I'm, I wonder how much are 
you on Facebook? 

149
00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:38,800
I am. 
How many people have reached out

150
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,000
to you? 
And ask you how you're doing 

151
00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:44,500
several actually and in 
comparison, what do you think 

152
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,500
the percentage would be? 
Oh yeah. 

153
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,800
So I could probably count them 
on one hand who actually have 

154
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,600
yes, you know who have called Me
and said, how are you really 

155
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,900
doing, right? 
And I've been grateful for those

156
00:09:57,900 --> 00:09:58,700
calls. 
Yes. 

157
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,900
Been grateful for those calls 
but I have I try to use social 

158
00:10:02,900 --> 00:10:06,700
media as a platform to challenge
to educate. 

159
00:10:06,700 --> 00:10:10,900
Sometimes I argue, you know, 
then my wife, my wife gets me 

160
00:10:10,900 --> 00:10:13,300
back in line. 
Yes, but I try to use it in a 

161
00:10:13,308 --> 00:10:16,300
responsible way. 
What I really want to do now is 

162
00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:18,800
provoke healthy productive 
dialogue. 

163
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,000
Yes. 
So yeah. 

164
00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:25,000
So that so in promoting healthy 
productive Active dialogue. 

165
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,200
What do you think is happening 
right now in the streets of 

166
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,400
Denver and the street what what 
do you see from? 

167
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,900
You know, maybe one p.m. till 10
p.m. o boy. 

168
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,900
What do you see? 
What do you think is happening? 

169
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,100
So spiritually, I think what's 
happening? 

170
00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:50,100
And I think what's necessary is 
God is calling people. 

171
00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:56,700
First and foremost to look at 
him to return to him or if 

172
00:10:56,700 --> 00:11:00,200
people don't have a relationship
with him through Jesus to come 

173
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,900
to him, I really do believe that
God is working in this 

174
00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:07,400
circumstance. 
I think God alone has the 

175
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,600
answer. 
I think God Alone In Jesus is 

176
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,100
the answer. 
And before we begin interpret, 

177
00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:18,500
this one of the things that the 
Lord, I feel like kind of gave 

178
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:21,200
to me today this morning, in 
fact, in a conversation with my 

179
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,100
wife, it was a good reminder and
has been very helpful throughout

180
00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:26,500
the day. 
We've got a first look at him 

181
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:32,400
and then we got to interpret 
everything through God through 

182
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,300
his word and I do think that 
there are some theological 

183
00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:43,200
things to talk about but it was 
just so Peace, giving to me this

184
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,500
morning to be reminded. 
We've got a first look at God, 

185
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,800
and everything else is 
interpreted through him and God 

186
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,100
has cleared, that his ways are 
higher than our ways. 

187
00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:53,400
His thoughts are higher than our
thoughts. 

188
00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:56,900
So that's what I meant when I 
said, I think he's gonna stretch

189
00:11:56,900 --> 00:12:00,700
us theologically in this season,
he certainly has me, but that's 

190
00:12:00,700 --> 00:12:03,400
where I would begin. 
The conversation is God's 

191
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,500
calling us to see him. 
So we we spent this morning 

192
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:10,000
Wednesday's are our staff 
meeting and this is our first 

193
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,100
staff meeting back in the 
Building for the time being were

194
00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:16,500
done with zoom calls, as good as
those have been for staff 

195
00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:18,900
meeting. 
It's not the same as being in a 

196
00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:22,100
in the same room socially 
distance but in the same room 

197
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,400
and we spent three and a half 
hours or so maybe more like 

198
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,000
three hours. 
The last three or two and a half

199
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,000
hours of our meeting discussing 
this, in the context of the 

200
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,300
different layers and and the 
very first corner of the 

201
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:37,700
Whiteboard, I'm a big whiteboard
guy. 

202
00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:39,900
So the very first corner of the 
Whiteboard. 

203
00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:44,100
I wrote the word god, Gospel 
because I wanted to remind not 

204
00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:47,300
that I think we have forgotten 
but a one of those. 

205
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,200
One of those leadership 
necessities of reminding, 

206
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,300
everyone like, John Wooden did 
having these star basketball 

207
00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:58,600
player. 
Z take a basketball and say men.

208
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,300
This is a basketball, right? 
And, and I like from time, to 

209
00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:06,100
time in crisis, to say, okay, 
this is a church. 

210
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:12,000
We're not a political entity. 
We aren't the savior of World, 

211
00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:15,800
we can't solve The World's 
problems, but this is a church. 

212
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,100
So the goal has to be 
gospel-centered. 

213
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:22,600
Like you just said, so you know,
resonating with what you said, 

214
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,400
the the it being God Alone is 
the answer. 

215
00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:28,700
Our answers are going to come 
from God. 

216
00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:31,700
So, in order for them to come 
from God, we need to look to 

217
00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:36,300
God. 
And and what I've found is that 

218
00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:42,200
the gospel or looking to Jesus, 
or Christianity can be co-opted 

219
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,700
by other things. 
Absolutely. 

220
00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:47,100
They could be co-opted by a 
political view. 

221
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,700
Could be co-opted by a personal 
view. 

222
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,600
It can be. 
And so under there, I forget 

223
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,500
exactly how I wrote it, but I 
said and I said, so let's go 

224
00:13:57,500 --> 00:14:00,200
back a little bit. 
Just for the context, I'm sure 

225
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,400
you felt you might feel the same
way, being a, pastor of a 

226
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,600
thriving church, that I thought 
our biggest issue this week and 

227
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,900
last week would be the covid. 
I thought. 

228
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:12,800
Wood. 
We've been gone from church for 

229
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,900
three months. 
Yeah, we have been not meeting 

230
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:18,000
together. 
So any kind of gathering of 

231
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,900
people like are you guys, okay, 
how is it going? 

232
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:44,000
But covid-19 
Attention this issue of abuse 

233
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,500
and Injustice. 
It's immediately at the 

234
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:49,900
Forefront right at the 
Forefront. 

235
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:55,300
And and, and so, what I found is
is not only can the gospel be 

236
00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:58,500
co-opted and so that we can 
actually be passionate about 

237
00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:02,000
something with the name Jesus in
it and actually not being the 

238
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,100
gospel at all. 
Absolutely not not answering it.

239
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:09,800
It all the reality of the 
situation but I found these two 

240
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,900
things too and maybe you've seen
this as well, but this 

241
00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:19,900
difficulty of the inability to 
parse out The reality of what 

242
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:24,400
you're seeing and I as an 
example you've got you have P, 

243
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:28,500
you have peaceful protesters. 
That that's that's been seen. 

244
00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:31,200
There are people. 
And why do people, why do you 

245
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,100
think? 
So I have an opinion before I 

246
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:34,600
share that. 
Why do you think there are 

247
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,700
peaceful protests right now in 
major cities around? 

248
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:43,200
What is your conclusion of why? 
A peaceful protest would be 

249
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,200
taking place right now? 
Yeah, I think people are 

250
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,800
responding to the That they 
faced or that we face as a 

251
00:15:49,808 --> 00:15:53,300
country over the last week 
specifically with George Floyd, 

252
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:59,600
I think was the Catalyst for 
these peaceful protest as we if 

253
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,300
we look at it narrowly. 
If we expand the view of that, I

254
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:05,800
think there's a larger 
conversation and I'm sure we'll 

255
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,000
get into that as this 
conversation progresses. 

256
00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:11,300
But I think there's a larger 
conversation that people are 

257
00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:17,500
trying to have ignite provoked, 
whatever about Justice equality.

258
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:20,400
So on On and so forth. 
And I think there are gospel 

259
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,100
implications in those things and
like you said we have to be 

260
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:26,600
careful that we don't co-opted 
and confuse it and and again I 

261
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,700
know that those things will come
out as we talk but that would be

262
00:16:28,700 --> 00:16:30,600
my response to that question. 
Yeah I agree. 

263
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,300
I think I think that there's a 
voice like peep we protest and 

264
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,800
if we step back for a second 
this is where the person comes 

265
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,700
in. 
We all protest. 

266
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,100
Absolutely. 
So we may not be like, for 

267
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:47,100
example, thinking about the 
first amendment when it comes to

268
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:48,900
covid and there. 
A lot of churches. 

269
00:16:49,100 --> 00:16:52,300
Hey First Amendment we can meet 
we can meet and and you know a 

270
00:16:52,308 --> 00:16:55,100
lot of guys are putting their 
foot down and hey where you 

271
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:58,300
can't tell us not to me. 
Yeah and I respect that. 

272
00:16:58,300 --> 00:17:01,800
I may not fully agree with the 
whole thing but I respect it but

273
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,400
in the same first amendment 
gives us the ability to have a 

274
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,300
peaceful protest and to assemble
like for the purposes of 

275
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:12,200
protesting something that we 
don't like happening. 

276
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:15,099
Yeah. 
And and so it's interesting that

277
00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:20,900
it gets overlapped because we 
And miss this opportunity to 

278
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:24,500
reach people with the gospel. 
If we get caught up in something

279
00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:29,300
that isn't the gospel. 
For example, what I mean by that

280
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:33,400
is we can miss the opportunity 
to reach people that are angry 

281
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:39,400
frustrated hurt fearful. 
If we only allow something that 

282
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,600
maybe we don't agree with or we 
don't like, or don't you 

283
00:17:42,608 --> 00:17:45,700
understand? 
Like you can't walk into the 

284
00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:48,200
Muddy Waters right now, without 
being criticized. 

285
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:52,400
It doesn't matter what you say. 
You could be, you can beat Pro. 

286
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,500
Like, for example, blackout 
Tuesday, It was used yesterday, 

287
00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:02,900
and one of the understandings 
that I had of that was it was, 

288
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:06,000
it was coming alongside the 
grieving family of George. 

289
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,400
Floyd, that was one of the ways 
to use that black out Tuesday 

290
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:14,500
and and people can't just accept
that and say, yeah, like there's

291
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:17,000
a family grieving here. 
So let's just set aside 

292
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,600
everything for a moment and 
let's feel the pain of a family 

293
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,400
grieving. 
And I know he's on and it's on a

294
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,500
national scale, get that because
there's grieving people in our 

295
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,300
church, but wouldn't it? 
It when it do well to respond to

296
00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:31,000
the culture and grieve with 
someone right mourn with those, 

297
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,700
who mourn and grieve weep with 
those who weep Rejoice with 

298
00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:37,100
those who rejoice. 
And then let God give that teach

299
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:40,300
a new sensitivity to grieve and 
mourn with people that are much 

300
00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:42,700
closer to you. 
But by that you're not allowed 

301
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:45,600
to do that or why some people 
you're not allowed to do that 

302
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,400
because it's been co-opted by 
something else. 

303
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,400
Yeah. 
And and so it's good that you're

304
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:56,300
doing, that you're doing well 
that you're processing anger. 

305
00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:59,500
Processing, computer mean, 
you're through it now, but I 

306
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:03,000
have to, I have to say from my 
perspective, I've been angry, 

307
00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:09,400
I've been overwhelmed, I can 
share the the challenge a 

308
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,900
challenge enough. 
It's like I thought man after 

309
00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:17,600
processing, the human pain, 
after processing, all the other 

310
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,000
pain that comes up. 
Because there's a second group 

311
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:23,700
that that follow the protesters.
And that way I guess we could 

312
00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:27,900
call them rioters and And I 
haven't had a chance to talk to 

313
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:30,100
him it, but by their behavior, 
it doesn't seem like they have 

314
00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:32,600
the same message or they change 
their message. 

315
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,800
They come out peacefully 
protesting, and then they take 

316
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,700
opportunity to, you know, 
whatever you see on the news, 

317
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:43,200
you Looting destroying two 
facing that doesn't seem to be 

318
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,000
helping the cause, do you see 
the same thing with the rioters 

319
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,200
at night? 
Do you think that helps the 

320
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,600
cause? 
I think it very well could? 

321
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,000
And let me tell you why I say 
that, because I know that 

322
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,100
probably shock. 
Some people to hear me say that 

323
00:19:56,100 --> 00:20:00,800
and Two weeks ago, I probably 
would have thought of like 

324
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,300
exactly what you just said. 
In fact, I think I, when this 

325
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:07,100
first kind of happened, I think 
I wrote on a Facebook post, 

326
00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:11,200
like, then we could lose our 
voice for the real cause with 

327
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,700
this, but I've prayed about that
and I really think that there 

328
00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:17,500
are some things to be learned 
here theologically, but let me 

329
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:20,100
go back to something you just 
said a second ago with respect 

330
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:24,500
to kind of the blackout moment. 
And why can't we just grieve 

331
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:27,600
with the family and one of the 
things I Like the holy spirit is

332
00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:31,400
has been ministering to me 
about, is this principle of 

333
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,400
Jesus, as Emmanuel, you know, 
Isaiah the prophet says, in 

334
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,600
Isaiah 7 that the Virgin shall 
be with child and you shall call

335
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:48,000
his name Emmanuel and it's this 
idea of God With Us, right? 

336
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,500
And I was just thinking through 
this, you know, in Hebrews 1 and

337
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:53,700
9. 
The Bible says that, that Jesus 

338
00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:57,200
was made a little lower than the
angels for A while, in other 

339
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,100
words, he came and became a 
human for a while, right? 

340
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:04,100
And Hebrews 1 and 14, it says he
partook of flesh and blood. 

341
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:07,600
So, we've got this picture of 
Jesus, right? 

342
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,200
The second person of the godhead
veiling, his deity, abandoning 

343
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:19,100
heaven, for a season, and coming
to dwell among his people, where

344
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:22,000
they were to meet them where 
they were. 

345
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:25,900
And so as I process this 
theologically, I think one of 

346
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:31,900
the things That we have to do is
begin to look at this and say 

347
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:37,300
okay in spite of all of our 
differences despite the fact 

348
00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:41,000
that I disagree with some of 
these methodologies or even 

349
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:46,500
thoughts behind them, how do we 
meet each other? 

350
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,200
Where we are, how do we live 
out? 

351
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,700
This gospel Centric principle of
Emanuel. 

352
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,700
So that's the first thing. 
I'll say with respect to the 

353
00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:02,500
Rioting looting man. 
Again just challenging myself 

354
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:05,500
theologically and I think we all
have a responsibility to do that

355
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:07,700
as Believers. 
And I know I do this, I try to 

356
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:10,000
do this. 
If I have a thought, I try to 

357
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:16,100
filter it through God's word and
ask myself, can I find a precept

358
00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:17,900
a command Thou shalt, Thou shalt
not. 

359
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,100
You know, if I can't find a 
preset, can I find a principal? 

360
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,300
In other words, you know, the 
scripture doesn't speak to this 

361
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:29,200
directly but maybe Be there are 
some peripheral principles that 

362
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,300
I can apply to a situation, 
right? 

363
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:35,000
And if I can't find a precept or
principle, can I find precedent,

364
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,400
you know, can I see in scripture
where this happened in someone's

365
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,800
story? 
And so I've been looking at this

366
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,500
and I've been asking myself with
respect to these riots and 

367
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:50,700
looting and so on and so forth. 
Could God be working at all 

368
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:52,500
this? 
And I think the answer is yes, 

369
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:55,700
and we call ourselves or excuse 
me as Christians. 

370
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,900
We say that God is sovereign 
Everett, right? 

371
00:22:57,900 --> 00:22:59,900
And so we can't abandon that 
principle. 

372
00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:03,700
Now, when bad things happen in 
our life, we have been taught 

373
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:05,500
that we teach that God is 
Sovereign. 

374
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:08,600
He's using all things for good 
and one of the things I think 

375
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,800
could very well be happening, or
let me say that a different way.

376
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:14,600
I'm beginning to ask the 
question. 

377
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:24,100
Could God be using some of this 
rioting looting to attack what I

378
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:27,700
believe? 
Has been an idolatrous mindset 

379
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:33,700
in the mines and the conscience 
of us as Americans? 

380
00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:38,000
And I look at this, right? 
And I think about us As 

381
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,100
Americans we are as arrogant as 
they come and anybody that's 

382
00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:46,900
traveled outside of of America, 
you know, you Click come to this

383
00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:50,000
conclusion. 
And I've been thinking about, 

384
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,700
like, for example, some of these
Confederate monuments that have 

385
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:57,600
been torn down, right? 
I mean, they, they have this 

386
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:03,800
ugly historical representation 
and now in an instant, they're 

387
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,400
gone, right? 
They have a sinful Foundation, 

388
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,200
they're gone. 
Even this idea of the flag and 

389
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:14,900
America as a country. 
It's and I've said this long 

390
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:18,200
before this, it's almost become 
our Idol. 

391
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:22,200
We even say it in phrases like 
God and Country, or in America, 

392
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,100
or excuse me, in the military. 
We say, God country flag and 

393
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:27,700
it's like, no, no, no, right. 
If we were parsing that 

394
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:30,400
sentence, we're putting them all
on the same plane. 

395
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,200
It's like, know God's up here, 
right? 

396
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,900
And country flag. 
You me. 

397
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:39,100
Everything else is a distant, 
second, but we have made these. 

398
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:42,500
Things are idols, and I think 
God could be using some of 

399
00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:45,700
these, a Actions to tear down 
those idols and I could run 

400
00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:48,500
through scripture and I'm happy 
to share several of them. 

401
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:51,300
I don't, I don't know what the 
Yeah, I'm happy to share several

402
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:53,100
of them, but I was just kind of 
running through scripture. 

403
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,200
So we got this picture of Israel
headed to the promised land that

404
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,500
God had given them, right? 
And so in Deuteronomy one, God 

405
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:03,200
tells Israel. 
When you get to this land, he 

406
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,600
tells them tear down, all of the
altars where the Nations that 

407
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,300
you're going to dispossess have 
served their gods tear down 

408
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:14,900
their altars. 
Ders, smash their sacred pillars

409
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:20,000
and then he says and burn their 
ashram with fire, right? 

410
00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:22,900
And then I look in judges 6, God
commands Gideon. 

411
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:27,300
He says tear down and smash the 
altars and then in Exodus 12, 

412
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,700
we've got this idea of God's 
going to liberate Israel from 

413
00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:35,000
Egypt and he sends the Destroyer
out into the land to kill the 

414
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:40,500
firstborn of everything man and 
Beast, we see God, using the 

415
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:44,600
Babylonians and the Assyrians to
Discipline, his people to take 

416
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,900
them to Exile and eventually he 
brings them back to the land. 

417
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:51,500
We come to the New Testament and
probably the most prevalent 

418
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:55,800
picture of violence and and 
murder and disrespect for a 

419
00:25:55,808 --> 00:25:59,200
cause that we see is on that 
hill just outside of Jerusalem, 

420
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,900
that muddy bloody gory murderous
violent scene. 

421
00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:11,500
And so when we begin to ask this
question theologically Does God,

422
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:14,600
we know he can because all 
things work together for good, 

423
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,900
right? 
But does God, use extreme 

424
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:26,100
sometimes violent aggressive 
tactics to exact his will and I 

425
00:26:26,108 --> 00:26:28,100
don't think we can deny that 
biblically. 

426
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:31,500
Now, I don't think everybody can
just go out and do what they 

427
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:32,900
want to do. 
And say, God told me to. 

428
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:36,200
That's not what I'm saying here.
I'm talking a bigger picture of 

429
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,900
God, working through evil, 
because in his, he sovereign, 

430
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:44,700
Working through the wicked 
hearts of men to bring about 

431
00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:47,700
some of the changes that I think
he's been longing for and I 

432
00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:49,800
think we could be witnessing 
some of that. 

433
00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:52,600
I think there's a there's a I 
use the phrase. 

434
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,700
There's a seismic shift 
happening here. 

435
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:58,000
There's a quite a few things I'm
not I don't have the ability to 

436
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,000
know what the future brings but 
certainly things that are 

437
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,500
changing pretty rapid fire layer
upon layer. 

438
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:11,100
We have a we have a Biblical 
Theology of Of the end times 

439
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:15,800
that that has this urgency, that
we watch the progressive end 

440
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,300
times. 
Prepare for a one world 

441
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:20,300
government for the Antichrist. 
I don't know. 

442
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:22,600
Do you guys? 
Is that a theology? 

443
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,200
You share your pre-trip re 
middle? 

444
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,600
Oh absolutely. 
So I don't. 

445
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,300
I'm still working out my 
eschatological position for we 

446
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:31,900
talk. 
Yeah. 

447
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:35,500
Yeah, but it didn't hear it, but
I'm with you, whatever. 

448
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:37,500
Our view is. 
Pray pretty. 

449
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:39,800
A Prelude to the coming of the 
Lord. 

450
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:42,900
Is a lot of bad stuff and it's 
all highlighted for us. 

451
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,100
Jesus himself in Matthew 24. 
And so, as you're opening, as 

452
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:50,300
you're opening up the Bible and 
you beginning to see the things 

453
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:53,900
coming together, you know, I 
really thought that the covid 

454
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:56,600
crisis would be our discussion 
and I thought that would be 

455
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,200
another topic on the radio, not 
necessarily with you, but with 

456
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,300
somebody that we'd be well, look
where we are three months later 

457
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:08,400
and three months have gone right
into the into the background in 

458
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:14,800
relationship to This tension and
difficulty that I believe and I 

459
00:28:14,808 --> 00:28:17,400
agree with you, John God is 
using in a sovereign way. 

460
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:21,800
It is very clear that God will 
use unbelievers throughout the 

461
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,000
scriptures absent to accomplish 
his will and on even a greater 

462
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,800
scale On Believing leaders and 
such. 

463
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,300
So here's what we're going to 
do. 

464
00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:31,800
We're going to continue the 
conversation after this two 

465
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,500
minute break. 
And then we're going to open up 

466
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:37,500
the phone lines and invite you 
to call with a question. 

467
00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:39,600
And I'll give you the ground 
rules. 

468
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:44,500
On the other side of the break, 
but we're not going to argue and

469
00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:48,500
we're not going to be critical, 
but we are open to difficult 

470
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:50,600
questions. 
Maybe we can't even answer them.

471
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,400
Maybe we're not able to maybe 
you won't like the opinion or 

472
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,200
you won't like the answer. 
So we are open to those kind of 

473
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,300
questions but we're not open to 
critical argumentative 

474
00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:04,200
questions, it's just not the 
Forum. 

475
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,700
So you hear the music, we'll be 
right back. 

476
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,900
This is Calvary live. 
Pastor John Moreland, Pastor Ed 

477
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:12,900
They're stick around. 
We'll be back in two minutes. 

478
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:17,000
Hey, welcome back to Calvary 
live, and want to give a shout 

479
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:24,100
out to everyone in New Jersey. 
Pennsylvania, Maryland, on Hope 

480
00:29:24,100 --> 00:29:26,700
FM everyone. 
On Truth FM, of course, here on 

481
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:30,400
the grace FM, radio network and 
I'm certain that we have a lot 

482
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,000
more people joining us online. 
Today for this special program, 

483
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:38,600
we have a couple days of special
programs of course because of 

484
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,600
the current events And the 
difficulties that we're facing 

485
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,700
and things that come to the 
surface and racial inequality 

486
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:52,000
and Injustice and and being able
as Believers of Jesus Christ to 

487
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,500
really talk about these things. 
And and even to some degree, 

488
00:29:56,900 --> 00:30:02,200
learn how to number one disagree
without destroying each other. 

489
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,700
But number two, I find, I think 
that's a key. 

490
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:08,200
By the way, I'm looking across 
the table at Pastor John 

491
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,500
Moreland. 
But for those of you just 

492
00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:11,800
joining us, I want to 
reintroduce. 

493
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,600
We have a special guest in 
studio. 

494
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:16,000
Pastor John Moreland, he's the 
president of the Colorado 

495
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,300
Baptist. 
He pastors a local church here 

496
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:21,000
in Denver Denver Christian Bible
Church. 

497
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:25,400
He's a father 25A, why? 
He has a he's not a wife, he's a

498
00:30:25,408 --> 00:30:28,200
husband to a wife but how many 
years you guys been married? 

499
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,800
16 years? 
This 17 years this month? 

500
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:37,000
Seven if you're listening, baby.
I'm sorry. 17, 17 17 to the best

501
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,400
years of your life. 
Amen, not your life. 

502
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,400
Her life A menace but John and I
have been friends Almost since 

503
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,200
he moved here to Colorado and 
just watched his ministry. 

504
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,300
Flourish, and we'll God's new. 
So we're talking we're having 

505
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:52,400
real conversation about the 
issues at hand. 

506
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,600
John is black and it's one of 
the reasons why I invited him 

507
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,500
because I have limitations in 
what I can share in order to 

508
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:02,000
give a. 
And I think that that's an 

509
00:31:02,008 --> 00:31:03,800
important. 
I hope you guys listening in 

510
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,600
understand, no matter whether 
you're white or black, or 

511
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,400
Hispanic, whatever Asian, 
whatever perspective you come 

512
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,500
from, There are limitations that
we need to invite other people 

513
00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:15,100
to the table so that we can hear
their point of view. 

514
00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:18,600
Like we don't have, we don't 
have a corner on the market of 

515
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,700
our point of view, even 
biblically. 

516
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:23,800
I mean, can I think of how many 
we could be on here? 

517
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,500
Again, we're all we, all we do 
is argue about the fine points 

518
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:29,800
of things that were forever 
disagreeing on that every 

519
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,600
generation had. 
But right, so here's what we're 

520
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,600
doing. 
We're inviting calls and the 

521
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,100
ground rules are simply this? 
No, no, don't argue. 

522
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:43,300
Don't seek to Argue, if you have
a real genuine question, it's 

523
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:45,700
okay. 
If you don't like the answer or 

524
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,100
it's okay, that we don't agree, 
but we're not, we are not 

525
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:55,800
arguing, we're not arguing and 
so we just won't do it. 

526
00:31:55,900 --> 00:32:00,400
And I know that you guys can. 
I know that you guys can follow 

527
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,700
through with that. 
So you want to take a, you want 

528
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:06,000
to take a controversial own or 
straight up, sure. 

529
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,000
All right, let's go right to 
line one. 

530
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,500
We're going to pick up with Go 
and I think it's not just 

531
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:13,500
controversial. 
It's a good question to ask, 

532
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:17,200
Joe, welcome to the program. 
Hey, how you doing? 

533
00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:18,800
I'm good. 
I'm good. 

534
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,000
At says, you're from Freddy 
Harbor, but I have a feeling 

535
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,000
that's Friday. 
No, that's Friday Harbor sir. 

536
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:28,300
Joseph friend of mine boy where 
you going to have to educate me.

537
00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:31,500
Where's Friday Harbor? 
Just outside of Seattle. 

538
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:33,200
There are islands. 
Oh yeah. 

539
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,900
Just outside of Seattle. 
Okay. 

540
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:36,400
Pastor jeweled pastors out 
there. 

541
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:38,100
Awesome. 
Welcome to the program, Joe. 

542
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:39,500
What do you want? 
What would you like to ask? 

543
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:43,700
What I want. 
Yeah, I have a question. 

544
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:46,000
So, you know, obviously we've 
got it. 

545
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,800
We here on the island. 
We've got a March coming up for 

546
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,000
black lives matter, you know, 
and wanting to, you know, 

547
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,400
support and really, I guess get 
that message out right there, 

548
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,500
really wanting Justice and the 
black voices to be heard, and I 

549
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:02,700
get that and I want to emphasize
as well. 

550
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:06,300
And so, just with that line 
itself, black lives matter. 

551
00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:09,000
I'm all for that and I 
definitely think that it's 

552
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,800
insensitive to. 
To say, well, all lives matter, 

553
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,900
right? 
Because we're coming from two 

554
00:33:13,900 --> 00:33:16,200
different contexts. 
So, where is that? 

555
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,800
Line of wanting to show empathy,
but at the same time, I don't 

556
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,500
agree with all all the, I guess 
you could say, maybe they're 

557
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,100
what they stand for when you 
when you look at the website and

558
00:33:27,108 --> 00:33:28,600
you kind of go through what they
believe. 

559
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,800
There's a lot of things that I 
don't agree with, but I 

560
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:36,400
definitely agree with that line.
Black lives, do matter and I 

561
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,700
want to emphasize, I want to be 
a part of what our community is 

562
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:43,700
doing, but where do I think that
line is of where we take maybe a

563
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:47,100
stand or not stand or were 
letting walls fall down so he 

564
00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:52,000
can really connect with not just
our black brothers and sisters, 

565
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,200
right? 
But also, just even our 

566
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,800
community who is also hurting as
a result of this? 

567
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:57,800
Yeah. 
Good question. 

568
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,500
So one of the things I would 
ask, I'd be curious to know. 

569
00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:05,500
Maybe one small thing if we have
time of, you care to share that 

570
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:08,500
you disagree with, but what I 
would say to that is, I would 

571
00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:12,100
treat this. 
Like, I would listening to a 

572
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:15,699
sermon in church, right? 
And so, you don't agree with 

573
00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:21,300
everything as you listen to a 
sermon, nor do I, but we can 

574
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:26,300
listen to the whole of the 
message and find. 

575
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,800
Yeah, I may disagree on some of 
the finer points but what's the,

576
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,300
what's the whole of the message?
Right? 

577
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:35,000
And so, as I think about the 
black lives matter movement, 

578
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,300
yeah, we may disagree on some of
the finer points of emphasis and

579
00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:41,300
so forth. 
But the Oh, love the message is,

580
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,600
we have a group of people in 
America that historically have 

581
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:52,699
been ostracized, have been 
treated unfairly by the American

582
00:34:52,699 --> 00:34:55,400
systems, right? 
Some of our core systems, I 

583
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,700
don't think those things are 
really up for debate anymore, 

584
00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:00,300
right? 
Like most people would concede. 

585
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:03,900
Yeah, black people get longer 
jail sentences, you know, black 

586
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:06,900
and brown people. 
You know, tend to live in food 

587
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:08,400
deserts. 
So on so forth, right? 

588
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,200
We could go on and on with the 
system, And so if you can hear 

589
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,100
the whole of the message, right?
Which is let's treat, everyone 

590
00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:21,800
fairly and equally. 
If you can exegete that out, 

591
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,000
then I think it's okay to 
disagree on some of the finer 

592
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,900
points of emphasis without 
compromising that. 

593
00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:30,400
Does that make sense? 
Yeah. 

594
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,000
Yeah. 
I know that that makes sense. 

595
00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:35,000
Yeah, I think that that 
definitely makes sense. 

596
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,000
Then I mean obviously guys I 
guess maybe it's just it is what

597
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,500
it is right? 
As far as like the comments or 

598
00:35:42,500 --> 00:35:45,100
the backlash, I think. 
Like as you said earlier because

599
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:48,700
of the blackout Tuesday, people 
were trying to Loop you in. 

600
00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:50,500
Will you also want to defund the
police? 

601
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:52,600
And I like that kind of thing, 
which is one of the talking 

602
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,400
points on their website. 
And so that that's where I was. 

603
00:35:57,700 --> 00:36:01,100
I'm trying to, I've always tried
to do this but I'm trying even 

604
00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:05,200
more as I wade into this because
of the position that God's Place

605
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,900
me in as a pastor, I think I 
need to wait into it. 

606
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,300
I think I need to speak into it.
I know my limitations, but I 

607
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:16,800
also know when my strengths and 
I know that that I can give a 

608
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,000
point of view that's important 
to be heard. 

609
00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:23,200
I'm learning to parse this out. 
Like I can, I can both empathize

610
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:28,400
with a Of. 
I mean if like on a much smaller

611
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,700
scale and I want to be very 
careful here, but one of the 

612
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:35,700
emotions that came up with me is
an is my own personal in 

613
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:38,100
justices. 
You know, things that have been 

614
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:42,800
done wrong to me or the wrongs 
that that I've experienced 

615
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,900
because of the sin of others. 
Not just my own sin, but the sin

616
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:50,600
of others that I have to 
process, and I'm like, wow, you 

617
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:56,400
know, I know the feeling of and 
Injustice and let me be careful 

618
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:56,900
that. 
I don't know. 

619
00:36:56,900 --> 00:37:00,700
The feeling of Injustice is that
John has experienced but John 

620
00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:04,100
and I John's black, I'm white. 
But I can I promise you. 

621
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,900
I know the feeling that John has
when he gets a nasty email 

622
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:10,500
telling him, he's the worst 
Pastor in the world, we can 

623
00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:14,700
share that and that feeling. 
So I can share, I have feelings 

624
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:19,900
of personal Injustice that are 
relatable to the broader sense 

625
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:21,800
of Injustice that that I'm like,
no. 

626
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,500
I'm going to I'm going to step 
into this because I know there's

627
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,000
Broader, I may not be able to 
explain the broader scope of 

628
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,500
racism. 
I may not be able to but I can 

629
00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:34,100
learn, I can dialogue and then 
with the comments that come up, 

630
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:39,000
we can apply the scriptures. 
And at the very least, it people

631
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,800
those that are listening in at 
the very least today. 

632
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,700
You didn't hear Pastor Ed's 
opinion. 

633
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,600
You heard Pastor John's opinion 
and he lives this that he 

634
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,900
breathes this. 
And he breathes it from a couple

635
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:55,200
different perspectives. 
Pastor former police officer A 

636
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,400
black man with probably you can 
share the history, you can share

637
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,200
history, that's more personal 
than we would ever know. 

638
00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:06,900
And and so I want to wait into 
these things but I don't. 

639
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:08,900
I also don't want people to 
speak for me. 

640
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,600
That's why I chose to post today
because I don't want people to 

641
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,500
speak for me. 
I want to teach people that I 

642
00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:20,400
can both empathize and I can 
also value the law enforcement 

643
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,300
on my, in my value of law, 
enforcement isn't for every 

644
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:27,200
police officer that was over. 
There, who would ever do that? 

645
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:32,400
And also my empathy for a 
movement that feels 

646
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,600
disenfranchised doesn't mean I 
approve of all their behavior, 

647
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,900
but let's just like speak the 
facts. 

648
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:43,600
There's, there's obviously 
racial inequities today and they

649
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,000
have been for many, many years. 
And my heart, Grieves for the 

650
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,400
pain and sorrow and difficulty, 
and you can't just watch the 

651
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,500
news and go. 
I can't agree with that, but I 

652
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:55,000
don't know the hearts of every 
person, that's That's out there.

653
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,500
I don't know what, I don't know.
I just know there's a wrong and 

654
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:01,800
the Bible speaks to the church, 
being a light in very dark 

655
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,400
places. 
And and so when it comes to, to 

656
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,500
grouping me in with the black 
lives matters movement so 

657
00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:11,400
there's a to me I make a 
difference. 

658
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,700
Maybe John tell me if this is an
accurate difference or one you 

659
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:19,800
to accept, I would say black 
lives matter, but I don't 

660
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,100
necessarily need to put a 
hashtag in front of it and join 

661
00:39:23,100 --> 00:39:25,400
a group, I can say, And 
independently. 

662
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,100
Sure. 
And and I think that that that 

663
00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:32,000
maybe a piece of what you're 
looking at to Joe, where do you 

664
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,600
really want to join the group or
or is there another way you can 

665
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,500
affirm your love, your 
appreciation, and your 

666
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:44,800
willingness to be a part of the 
solution for black lives matter 

667
00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:48,200
and I do believe black lives 
matter and I do think if if I 

668
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,600
respond back to all lives 
matter, I I can say black lives 

669
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,400
matter without excluding 
everyone else. 

670
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:58,300
All right, it's just a statement
in time for a particular group 

671
00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:03,800
that's getting attention for 
particular hurts and, and in 

672
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,500
fear of being controversial. 
I don't think this sounds that 

673
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:09,800
way, but I just wanted to 
challenge this here, because 

674
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,600
look at the other perspective, 
Joe? 

675
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,200
What we've said in this country 
for 400 years without the 

676
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:20,200
hashtag and silently is White 
lives matter, right? 

677
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,400
I mean, we've made that 
statement as a society in our 

678
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,900
Idle systems. 
And and when I say that, I 

679
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:32,200
cringe a little bit, five years 
ago, three years ago. 

680
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,500
I probably wouldn't have said 
that in fear that I would offend

681
00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:39,700
The Listener and my intent isn't
to offend you but I think we're 

682
00:40:39,700 --> 00:40:42,600
at such a crucial moment. 
Now that we've got to speak in 

683
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,200
plain terms and plain English. 
And, and we've got to look at 

684
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,500
these things, critically, right 
to say yeah. 

685
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:52,700
Has our country said that. 
Implicitly. 

686
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,700
Have we said that when When we 
give and again, this is proven 

687
00:40:56,700 --> 00:41:00,600
in the criminal justice system. 
We give harsher penalties to 

688
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,000
black people who are convicted 
of the same crime. 

689
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:10,400
Then we do whites, we give, you 
know, access is the word I'm 

690
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,400
looking for. 
When we look at access to things

691
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,200
like healthcare affordable 
housing, so on and so forth, we 

692
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,500
have sent the message very 
clearly as a country that 

693
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:24,400
majority culture or White lives 
matter, we just haven't said it.

694
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,700
#Right. 
And so, now I think black lives 

695
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:30,400
matter is an attempt to balance 
that like everything. 

696
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,600
Every other system. 
Do they get every line and 

697
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,800
phrase, right? 
I'm sure we don't, but again, we

698
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,500
got to look at the whole of the 
message. 

699
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,000
Hmm. 
Yeah. 

700
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,000
That's good, that's good. 
That's where I find myself, I 

701
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,500
can wanting to empathize and 
wanting to learn and I want to 

702
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:50,600
go to this silent peaceful 
March, but I know I'm going to 

703
00:41:50,607 --> 00:41:54,700
get backlash from people within 
our church who won't even Well, 

704
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:56,400
maybe maybe I don't want to draw
it. 

705
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,400
I don't want to Broad Strokes at
but I have a good feeling. 

706
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,400
I will get what would be if I 
may ask what would be their 

707
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,400
concern that you anticipate? 
Well, I think I think that maybe

708
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,200
it's just because of the media 
narrative, right? 

709
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,600
Oh, now you're with the leftist 
organization. 

710
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,800
Now you're aligning yourself 
with this and now you want to 

711
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,500
defund police which obviously 
indeed like know I love the 

712
00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:20,600
priests. 
I've got a really good friend 

713
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,400
with the Bible College with his 
though, California highway 

714
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,000
patrolman. 
I am. 

715
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,100
I believe that all policemen are
bad, you know, so dementia to 

716
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:31,100
lump me in and say that. 
Now, I believe this because I 

717
00:42:31,107 --> 00:42:33,600
want to emphasize, that's that's
what I'm kind of resting and 

718
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:38,000
working through I think you just
have to be who you are and when 

719
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,400
those moments arise, take them 
take those moments to educate 

720
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,700
people. 
But I want to encourage you to 

721
00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:48,000
say one thing that has to happen
in this moment is you got to 

722
00:42:48,008 --> 00:42:51,200
take a stand, whatever it is 
right for whatever reason you 

723
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,400
do. 
But you've got to take a clear 

724
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,000
stand, I think the day, As of 
kind of hiding in the shadows, 

725
00:42:57,300 --> 00:43:02,100
not being too controversial, not
being, you know, that may come 

726
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:04,500
off this way. 
That met someone may perceive 

727
00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:07,700
that, well, that's that's kind 
of their problem, right? 

728
00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:10,000
Let's take these as moments to 
educate, but God bless you, Joe 

729
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,600
and thank you for your 
questions. 

730
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:18,500
I appreciate you guys. 
Thanks, Joe. 30 3690 3000. 

731
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,900
Let me so, we were talking, 
let's go here first and then I 

732
00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:25,700
want to get to this question. 
So we got what? 

733
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:29,400
12 minutes, 15 minutes, 14 
minutes. 

734
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,700
So we got about 14 minutes and 
offline during the the break I 

735
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:36,200
said, well what do you think, 
John? 

736
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,100
What do you think about this? 
If we're going to take a 

737
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:40,700
theological approach, what do 
you think about this view that 

738
00:43:40,700 --> 00:43:44,100
there's only one race? 
And because I know that those 

739
00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:46,700
that are loyal To the 
scriptures, those that are loyal

740
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:50,700
to a direct literal. 
Interpretation of Genesis could 

741
00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:53,400
come to that conclusion. 
We have one race, the human race

742
00:43:53,900 --> 00:43:57,400
and and your response was good 
and I think something they need 

743
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,200
to be heard, you said it was 
immaterial and could, you could 

744
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,400
you follow along and repeat that
for our listeners? 

745
00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:04,100
Sure of what you were saying? 
Yep. 

746
00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:08,000
I think when we hear that, one 
of the ways we have to challenge

747
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,700
that thinking is yes. 
Let's just let's just assume. 

748
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,300
Let's let's say we have one 
rice, I'm not sure. 

749
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:15,900
I agree. 
We with that but let's just say 

750
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:17,000
that we're going to go with 
that. 

751
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:22,600
The reality is even if we have 
one race over time you and I now

752
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,800
have different skin colors. 
I don't know what those skin 

753
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,200
colors were like in Genesis, you
know, wanting to. 

754
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,000
But today we do and those and as
a result of that sin has 

755
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:39,000
manifested itself in in that 
Gap, if you will, of white, to 

756
00:44:39,008 --> 00:44:41,200
black to brown to red, to Yellow
whatever. 

757
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:44,900
So whether we're going to say or
whether it's true or not, That 

758
00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:49,300
we have one race. 
The reality is, we live in 

759
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:52,200
different skin colors and sin 
has manifested itself. 

760
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,900
And now we have to equip people 
to deal with it. 

761
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:58,300
And we got to deal with the 
issues from a Biblical and 

762
00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:01,000
theologically accurate 
perspective that have emerged as

763
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,500
a result of those different 
races. 

764
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:07,000
If only to call people back to 
the reality that we have one 

765
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,100
race if that's where we wind up.
You know, that the Bible is 

766
00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:14,400
saying this, if that's the case 
we still have to step. 

767
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,900
In two races, we have it today 
in order to call people back to 

768
00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:22,300
that biblical truth. 
If in fact, it is so the you you

769
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:25,700
had mentioned, the gap between 
us and you've got a way to 

770
00:45:25,700 --> 00:45:28,500
communicate that where you were 
saying, we need to learn to 

771
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:33,200
attack the Divide so talk about 
that attacking the divide that 

772
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,100
you mention in building that 
separation. 

773
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:38,200
But the least for the very least
of this our skin color but I 

774
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,900
would even say that but not only
is send magnified that but your 

775
00:45:41,900 --> 00:45:44,000
experiences have been different 
than mine. 

776
00:45:44,100 --> 00:45:46,500
Sure. 
In many ways living in, living 

777
00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:49,400
in a different. 
Systemic way, the culture 

778
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,600
approaches you and people so 
talk to me about or let the 

779
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,500
listeners know what's your 
what's your thought on attacking

780
00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:56,600
the Divide? 
Yep. 

781
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,500
So attacking the Divide is a 
term that I use that. 

782
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:02,500
I feel like God gave me some 
time ago and I've mostly applied

783
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:05,700
it to marriage. 
And so if a husband and wife 

784
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,500
come into my office and you 
know, they're arguing about 

785
00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:10,400
let's just say money. 
One of the things I tried to get

786
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,900
them to see is, you're not each 
other's enemy, but However, the 

787
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:18,100
principle is about money that 
you're disagreeing over, that's 

788
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:21,600
the enemy. 
And so if God's biblical, 

789
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,200
principle of marriage is 
Oneness, then we have 

790
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,800
responsibility to unite together
as husband and wife, and let's 

791
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,800
attack the thing that's dividing
us, which is our view on money, 

792
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:33,600
right? 
So that may mean, maybe we need 

793
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,800
to educate ourselves, maybe we 
need to spend less, maybe we 

794
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,800
need to save more, maybe 
whatever the problem is. 

795
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,200
That's The Divide. 
So I think the same principle 

796
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:44,400
could be applied here, right? 
Most people are not. 

797
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,200
Evil and I'm not ignoring the 
biblical principle at the heart 

798
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,000
of man is desperately wicked. 
And you know Eve I get that 

799
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,700
right. 
I'm not trying to ignore that 

800
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,300
what I'm saying is I don't think
most people wake up everyday 

801
00:46:56,300 --> 00:47:00,400
wishing for your demise because 
of your skin color, but we are 

802
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,200
all inherently ignorant. 
There's no such thing as common 

803
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,800
sense. 
You only know what you're taught

804
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:10,400
and so what we've got to do is 
we have to attack the thing that

805
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,500
separates us, if you don't hate 
me and I don't hate you because 

806
00:47:13,500 --> 00:47:16,200
of your skin color then. 
We have to conclude that there's

807
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,800
just some probably some 
ignorance on both of our part. 

808
00:47:18,900 --> 00:47:21,400
So how do we unite as the human 
race? 

809
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,600
How do we unite as brothers in 
Christ? 

810
00:47:23,700 --> 00:47:30,300
And how do we attack the the 
racism or racial issues or 

811
00:47:30,300 --> 00:47:32,700
whatever you want to call it? 
That separate us. 

812
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:36,100
So that's what I mean, when I 
say attack the Divide, let's 

813
00:47:36,100 --> 00:47:38,900
take this call and then I want 
to ask you maybe your Viewpoint 

814
00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:42,100
of the first step to take. 
So, let's go over to Niwot 

815
00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:45,500
Colorado AJ's on the line 8. 
Hey, welcome to the program. 

816
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,000
Thank you very much. 
Appreciate it. 

817
00:47:47,100 --> 00:47:49,100
How are you guys today? 
We're doing well, good. 

818
00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:51,700
Good, good. 
My question relates specifically

819
00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:55,100
to those of us who are in the 
body of Christ and I'm wondering

820
00:47:55,100 --> 00:47:58,500
why it's so difficult for 
Christians to understand the 

821
00:47:58,508 --> 00:48:00,200
word of God. 
When you look, for example at 

822
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:05,900
Isaiah 117, he talks about learn
to do good seek Justice, 

823
00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:08,400
correct? 
Oppression bring Justice to the 

824
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,800
fatherless and please the 
Widow's cause he talks about it 

825
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,100
in Michael also about, And 
loving and kindness and so on, 

826
00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:17,400
and on and on, and Through the 
Bible. 

827
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,100
So how do we as Christians get 
so far away from his word? 

828
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,200
That we are allowing ourselves 
to be so divided? 

829
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,900
Yeah, I think the answer to that
is simple because men love 

830
00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:28,800
Darkness rather than light, 
right? 

831
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,300
It's the same reason they ignore
passages where Jesus says, you 

832
00:48:32,300 --> 00:48:34,800
know, come to me and I'll give 
you eternal life and we totally 

833
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,800
ignore it because we like, what 
we like, we love what we love 

834
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:43,400
and the reality is, I don't 
think I'm unjust, right? 

835
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:45,600
It's I was talking to a A close 
friend of mine last night. 

836
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,200
He was essentially asking the 
same why question and I said 

837
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,700
it's the same problem that we 
have when we share the gospel 

838
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:54,500
with people, it's inherently 
offensive because now I got to 

839
00:48:54,500 --> 00:48:57,300
look at myself and say, I'm not 
really good, I'm bad. 

840
00:48:57,500 --> 00:49:00,700
I don't really see. 
I'm blind and I need something 

841
00:49:00,700 --> 00:49:03,600
outside of me, bigger than me, 
greater than me to help me. 

842
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,200
Well, I don't like that, right? 
Because I got it self-evaluate 

843
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:08,000
well. 
The same is true. 

844
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,900
When we talk about some of these
World Systems, you know, when we

845
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:13,600
talk about racism, when we talk 
about, you know, all the things 

846
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,600
we're talking about now. 
Now, now everyone has to look at

847
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:23,700
themselves and introspectively 
and say how have I John not in 

848
00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:28,500
general but John have I John 
contributed to the divide and to

849
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:31,300
answer your question AJ, I don't
like to do that because I don't 

850
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:32,900
want to think. 
There's something wrong with me.

851
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,400
I don't want to think I'm a 
racist. 

852
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,700
I don't want to think I've 
participated in racism. 

853
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,400
I don't want to think, I'm 
whatever on and on and on. 

854
00:49:39,500 --> 00:49:41,100
And so I think that's part of 
the issue. 

855
00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:43,500
Is it requires self-reflection? 
Yeah. 

856
00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:46,500
I think that I think. 
That racism is generally 

857
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:48,100
something. 
We think other people do. 

858
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,100
No, matter the skin color, like,
that's something that other 

859
00:49:52,100 --> 00:49:54,800
people do. 
And then, that gets mixed I to 

860
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,600
AJ in a culture that that 
glorifies victim and it 

861
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,600
glorifies a victim mentality. 
So that when you ask that 

862
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,000
question about the church, well 
John mentioned it earlier. 

863
00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:10,600
John mentioned that God God's 
dealing with idolatry dealing 

864
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,700
with and I mentioned a little 
bit. 

865
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:15,800
I think earlier that would come 
alongside what John was saying 

866
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:21,100
is that the gospel has been 
co-opted And I think in some 

867
00:50:21,100 --> 00:50:24,500
ways we have to ask ourselves. 
Are we living? 

868
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:28,800
Are we seeking to live a real 
gospel? 

869
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,100
The, the life transformative 
deny yourself. 

870
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,600
I mean, if we just Define the 
gospel that outgrowth of the 

871
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,000
Gospel, just as that. 
How well do we do? 

872
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:45,600
Step one, let alone, two, you 
know, narcissism entering in 

873
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,300
we've co-opted and I think in 
the United States there's a 

874
00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:50,800
sense. 
Whether people want to admit it 

875
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,300
or not, I don't know. 
But there is a I guess you could

876
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:57,600
say an American gospel that is 
centered upon the American dream

877
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,000
and and that's part of this 
whole problem because the 

878
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,700
American a dream isn't open to 
everybody or it's more difficult

879
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:09,200
for some people than others and 
that that's this whole 

880
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,600
conversation that's coming to 
the surface and and because it's

881
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:15,700
it's been another friend of 
mine. 

882
00:51:15,700 --> 00:51:18,800
John. 
And I don't know, I'm sure it's 

883
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,500
probably One of the things you 
wrestle with, but one friend of 

884
00:51:21,508 --> 00:51:25,300
mine, just started talking about
the Deep angst of frustration. 

885
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,400
It's just so frustrating. 
It's so we he said something 

886
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,000
along the lines of live like 
this forever and it's just 

887
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,200
doesn't change, doesn't change, 
doesn't change in. 

888
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,300
There's just a frustration. 
But for believers, I think that 

889
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:41,400
I shared this with our team, 
this morning when Jesus wrote to

890
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,000
the church. 
Nobody, when you go and you're 

891
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,100
the seven churches of 
Revelation, nobody wants to be 

892
00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:49,900
the Church of Sardis. 
Buddy wants to admit. 

893
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:52,900
They're the Church of laodicea. 
Everybody is the Church of 

894
00:51:52,900 --> 00:51:58,300
Philadelphia everybody but but 
to the Church of Sardis the dead

895
00:51:58,300 --> 00:52:03,300
Church. 
Jesus said this he says, I know 

896
00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:06,400
your works, so that wasn't an 
inactive Church. 

897
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,000
You have a name, wasn't an 
unpopular church and people 

898
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,100
think you're alive, you know, 
you have a name that you're 

899
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:15,900
alive. 
So from all outward appearances,

900
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:20,200
the church in Sardis at this 
point appears, Is to be exactly 

901
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,600
what it's supposed to be. 
They, they have their active and

902
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,100
everybody thinks they're exactly
what a church should be. 

903
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:30,100
Whatever that definition is and 
then you get the word from 

904
00:52:30,100 --> 00:52:33,100
Jesus. 
But and that's when you're like,

905
00:52:33,100 --> 00:52:37,400
okay wait a minute. 
He he just says but you are dead

906
00:52:39,100 --> 00:52:45,100
and and if we just that's just 
verse 1 and to think that Jesus 

907
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:50,000
would say to any of our churches
very active Got a name, got a 

908
00:52:50,008 --> 00:52:53,600
sign, got a radio Ministry 
stage, whatever, you know, 

909
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,800
whatever it is, doesn't really 
matter and you're like, yeah, 

910
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,000
yeah. 
But you're dead. 

911
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,100
Yeah. 
And whether that, that is an in 

912
00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:05,800
in its entirety, and I don't 
think it is as an entirety 

913
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,800
because of what he said next, 
what he said next is he said Be 

914
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,700
watchful. 
So open up your eyes. 

915
00:53:10,700 --> 00:53:16,900
Wake up, wake up number one, 
number to strengthen the things 

916
00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:19,500
that remain. 
So there were some S. 

917
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:23,400
There was some Essence, if you 
want to our discussion, AJ of 

918
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,300
the real gospel there, there was
something there. 

919
00:53:26,500 --> 00:53:29,700
So strengthen those things that 
remain but they're ready to die.

920
00:53:29,700 --> 00:53:34,700
So, whatever form of the Gospel 
that is, is there is not going 

921
00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:37,500
to last. 
It's not the real like you have.

922
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,200
It's almost like I think back to
the, to the Pharisees, they were

923
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:47,600
teaching as doctrines of God. 
The the are Commandments of God,

924
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:52,400
the doctrines of men. and and I 
think one of the reasons Justice

925
00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:58,400
in the church doesn't attacked 
Injustice is because They don't 

926
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,600
have a real form of the gospel, 
and I also warned our church 

927
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,200
today, our staff at least that. 
As we talk about these things 

928
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,200
just be ready to be accused of 
watering down the gospel and and

929
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:11,900
somehow preaching a social 
gospel. 

930
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,000
And and I said, just be ready 
for that because we're talking 

931
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,000
about things, people are 
uncomfortable with, they don't 

932
00:54:17,100 --> 00:54:20,100
associate with the gospel, so, 
therefore, they minimize it and 

933
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:22,700
say, well, that's not the 
gospel, the gospel is a saved 

934
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:26,100
man sins forgiven, and that's 
the gospel. 

935
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:29,500
But but actually the The life of
Jesus permeated far more. 

936
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,900
He did come to save your soul, 
but he also came to transform 

937
00:54:32,900 --> 00:54:36,000
you and the world so that your 
soul would transform another 

938
00:54:37,100 --> 00:54:39,600
and, and so be ready. 
That's like with Joe, you know, 

939
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,500
you do something just be ready 
for the backlash. 

940
00:54:42,700 --> 00:54:45,000
So thanks for calling AJ. 
We're almost out of time. 

941
00:54:45,100 --> 00:54:47,900
Sorry, buddy. 
God bless you. 

942
00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:52,500
Bye-bye, what will we got two 
minutes left? 

943
00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:55,300
John, what would you say? 
I know it went by super fast. 

944
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,700
What would you say in closing? 
I got a whole list here, but I 

945
00:54:58,707 --> 00:55:00,400
want to leave. 
What's the last two minutes for 

946
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,400
you? 
I think it begins with each one 

947
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,500
of us looking at our self. 
I'll call us back to let me say 

948
00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:09,500
it a different way, which with 
each one of us looking at God 

949
00:55:09,500 --> 00:55:12,800
first and then looking at 
herself If my people which are 

950
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,200
called by my name. 
Well, my people, we always want 

951
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,200
to interpret that as a general 
sense of everybody else know. 

952
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:23,200
My people is you My people is 
me, my people is each one of us 

953
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,300
individually that formed the 
collective people. 

954
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,700
So I think it starts with us 
looking internally and asking 

955
00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:32,800
how I contributed to these 
systems of the world that are 

956
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,900
unjust. 
And then, secondly, I think it's

957
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:36,600
what you said. 
I don't think we've taught the 

958
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:38,600
gospel wrongly. 
I think we've taught it in 

959
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,600
completely the gospel doesn't 
just have implications for 

960
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,600
eternity. 
It has implications here on 

961
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,000
Earth and one of the things I 
was saying to a friend of mine, 

962
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,500
the other day, he challenged me 
the same way you're watering 

963
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:51,000
down the gospel. 
You Become liberal etc, etc. 

964
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,400
And I took him back to that 
scene in Matthew where Jesus 

965
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,400
stands to judge the world and he
separates the sheep from the 

966
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,000
goat and when he does, he 
doesn't say, did you pray the 

967
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,700
sinner's prayer? 
Did you go to church? 

968
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:03,900
Did you read your Bible? 
All those things we have to do, 

969
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:06,100
don't don't get, they'll 
misunderstand, me, we have to do

970
00:56:06,100 --> 00:56:07,700
those things. 
They contribute to our growth, 

971
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:13,000
but I find it telling on that 
day, he says, did you feed me 

972
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:14,800
when I was hungry? 
Clothe, me, when I was naked, 

973
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,800
visit me when I was imprisoned? 
Etc, etc. 

974
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,300
That was his criteria. 
Yeah, a separation and I think 

975
00:56:21,300 --> 00:56:23,800
it would do us all well to look 
at. 

976
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,400
Do we have a big enough view of 
the Gospel will have to do this 

977
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:27,700
again? 
I don't think we can just 

978
00:56:27,700 --> 00:56:30,200
respond and then let it go. 
And try to get back. 

979
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,100
We'll have to do it again. 
But for the interim, how can 

980
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:35,700
people contact you? 
How can they get ahold of you? 

981
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:37,100
How can they visit your church 
out? 

982
00:56:37,100 --> 00:56:39,800
Going to hear your messages. 
How can they connect with you? 

983
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:44,400
Sure our website Denver Bible 
dot orc Denver, Bible dot-org. 

984
00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:47,400
I just joined Twitter so I think
I'm following you on Twitter. 

985
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,500
Now it John aim. 
Moreland, John a Moreland are 

986
00:56:51,500 --> 00:56:56,500
you can call our church, 30, 32 
to 36 133 or send me an e-mail, 

987
00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:59,900
senior pastor at Denver, Bible 
dot-org that senior spelled out 

988
00:56:59,900 --> 00:57:01,400
senior pastor Denver by 
well.org. 

989
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:05,200
So just to remember Denver Bible
dot-org has all the information 

990
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,500
to connect with Pastor John I 
appreciate your friendship and 

991
00:57:08,500 --> 00:57:12,900
your candor and I know that even
in the discussion there's a lot 

992
00:57:12,900 --> 00:57:17,100
for us to learn a lot for us to 
grow in and I think the key 

993
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:19,400
message is keep your eyes 
firmly. 

994
00:57:19,500 --> 00:57:21,000
Upon the Lord is a Good 
Shepherd. 

995
00:57:21,100 --> 00:57:24,900
He'll lead us and continue to 
pray for the Peace of your city.

996
00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:28,500
Thank you for joining us for 
this episode of lead to serve 

997
00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:31,800
with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a 
leadership podcast from Calvary 

998
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,100
Church in Aurora. 
Colorado, if you have a 

999
00:57:34,107 --> 00:57:37,000
leadership question, you want to
hear answered on a future lead 

1000
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:41,000
to serve podcast, please email 
it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co 

1001
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:45,000
dot church and if you like our 
podcast Please Subscribe rate or

1002
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,000
review us on iTunes and share us
with your friends on social 

1003
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:49,300
media. 
Thanks again. 

1004
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,500
And for joining us and we'll see
you next time right here on the 

1005
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:54,000
lead to serve podcast.