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Welcome, dear listeners, to 
another fascinating episode of 

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the London History Podcast, 
where we dive into the vibrant 

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and diverse past of this great 
city. 

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I am your host, Hazel Baker, a 
qualified London tour guide and 

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founder of London 
guidedwalks.co.uk. 

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Whether you're a born and bred 
Londoner or a curious listener, 

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join us on a journey through 
time as we explore the city 

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together. 
Each episode is supported by 

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show notes, transcripts, photos 
and further reading, all to be 

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found on our website. 
If you enjoy what we do then 

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you'll love our guided walks and
private tours that we offer 

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throughout the year, all 
bookable online at 

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londonguidedwalks.co.uk. 
Subscribe now to never miss an 

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episode and if you enjoy the 
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and rating to help spread the 
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Today we are delighted to 
welcome back Anna Borzello, an 

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experienced mudlaka whose 
fascinating discoveries along 

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the banks of the Thames have 
unearthed a treasure trove of 

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artefacts and should be sharing 
some from the Stuart period. 

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Anna's particulars work provides
us with a glimpse into the daily

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lives and material culture of 
17th century London, and that 

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offers us a direct and personal 
connection to the path which is 

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both rare and invaluable. 
The Stuart period was a time of 

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significant social, political 
and cultural transformation, a 

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captivating backdrop for Anna's 
findings. 

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Today. 
These objects, ranging from 

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personal belongings to remnants 
of trade and domestic life, not 

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only illustrate the economic and
social dynamics of the era, but 

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also reveal the personal 
narratives and experiences of 

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the people who once owned them. 
Each artifact, with its own 

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unique history, provides A 
tangible link to those 

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individuals living through such 
tumultuous times. 

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This is Stuart monarchy, so the 
English Civil War, the Plague 

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and the Great Fire of London. 
These finds allow us to piece 

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together everyday experiences 
from 17th century Londoners, 

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offering insights into their 
habits, preferences and the 

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challenges they faced. 
And once you've listened to 

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this, and you haven't listened 
to Anna's previous episode, then

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get on to episode 112. 
Mudlarking finds Georgian London

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to welcome Anna. 
Hello thank you so much for 

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asking me back. 
I'm really excited because when 

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you ask me back it means I can 
revisit my finds and re research

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them, which was very 
invigorating. 

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Excellent. 
And it might be worth just 

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introducing people to the world 
of mudlarking and the 

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requirement for permits. 
Oh yes, it's very important. 

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So mudlarking in the Victorian 
era, mudlarks were scavengers of

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the foreshore. 
They were just looking for 

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little lumps of coal or bits of 
rope that they could sell to 

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survive. 
They were on the verges of the 

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kind of criminal underclass 
these days. 

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Mudlarks. 
So down to the River Thames when

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the tide is out and we scavenge 
not for items to sell. 

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In fact, it's illegal to sell 
the items we find but for items 

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that tell us stories about 
London's history. 

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And that's because the Thames is
at the heart of London. 

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If it wasn't for the Thames, 
there would be no London, the 

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Romans wouldn't have settled 
here, and over the last 2000 

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years everybody's dumped their 
rubbish in there. 

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And what's rubbish to people 
other people has treasured to 

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us. 
And actually occasionally they 

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drop in the odd wanted treasure 
item too. 

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And if you're lucky enough, you 
might find that so the tide goes

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in and out twice a day and 
mudlocks time their lives. 

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Basically, someone like me 
literally times my day around 

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when I can go down to the 
foreshore at low tide and hunt 

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around in the mud and see what I
can find. 

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And not anybody can do it, can 
they? 

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Anyone can do it in the sense 
that it doesn't require a 

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specialist skill really and you 
learn on the job, but actually 

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you do need a permit to to 
search on the Thames and about a

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year and a half ago the Port of 
London Authority who issued 

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those permits suspended them. 
So at the moment only those 

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people who have permits can 
search the foreshore. 

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Well, I think the PLA is 
reviewing the situation because 

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there was a great uptake in the 
number of people mud locking 

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particularly over lockdown. 
So I think they're just seeing 

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how to best manage the numbers 
and then we'll see what happens 

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next. 
So at the moment you can only 

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mud lock if you have a license, 
although you can go down if you 

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join groups. 
They're groups like the Thames 

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Discovery programme and the 
Thames Explorer Trust run really

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excellent excursions down to the
foreshore. 

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They're affordable and they're 
interesting, so I'd recommend 

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that to anybody who wants to try
their hand at Mudlucky and see 

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what it's like. 
Now you mentioned about learning

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on the job and only you've got 
you're nine years in and today 

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we're going to be focusing on 
finds that you have found that 

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were made or used in the 17th 
century, which is a big century 

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in London historic terms. 
Yeah, it's really exciting. 

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Century so much goes on in this 
century. 

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It's crazy. 
Not only does the population 

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double, there's a growth of the 
middle class, but right at the 

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heart of the century, you've got
the great fire of London. 

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London falls down, then it's 
rebuilt again. 

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It rises from the ashes. 
There's the plague years. 

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There's the fighting between the
Protestants and the Catholics, 

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which continues. 
The tensions continue. 

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There's the kind of great 
attempt at building a Republic 

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by the middle of the century as 
well. 

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And then also there's wonderful 
magical things, like the great 

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frost fare of a 1683 to 4 when 
the Thames froze over in the 

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Little Ice Age and basically the
whole of London decamped to the 

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ice. 
They had affairs on the ice. 

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It was even meant to be an 
elephant on the ice. 

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And a lot of these events have 
left their mark on the Thames 

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and on the object that we find, 
if we're lucky enough when we're

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not blocking on the Thames. 
Fantastic. 

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So I think it's worth starting 
with our first find of the day 

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and what have you got for us? 
OK, so the first one of the day 

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is something that maybe helps us
imagine the mental life of 

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people in the 17th century, 
which was a time when there were

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a lot of witches, witch hunts, 
superstitions. 

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So I'm holding a little bit of 
pottery and it's stoneware and 

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it's brown and it was made in 
Germany and it's something that 

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all mudlucks hope to find and 
often do find because they're 

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not uncommon. 
And it's a little face I'm going

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to hold up so you can see Hazel,
but I'll describe it for anyone 

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who has to listen. 
It's the neck of a the neck of a

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jar and it's got a face 
imprinted on it. 

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It's rather a grumpy looking man
with a downtown downturned 

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mouth. 
He has a bushy beard, thin nose 

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and eyes. 
Actually, his eyes, he's got 

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double eyes on top of each 
other. 

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And I really liked that when I 
found it, because when I was a 

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child I had a double vision, but
it was a vertical double vision.

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So when I pulled this out of the
mud, I thought, Oh my gosh, I 

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found something from 400 years 
ago made by a Potter who maybe 

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had the same eye condition that 
I had as a child or maybe his 

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mould slipped, I don't know. 
So these are called Artman Jugs,

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Bearded Man Jugs. 
They were made in Rhineland, 

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Germany, and they began being 
imported into England, actually,

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in the Tudor period. 
But they were everywhere all 

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throughout the 17th century and 
they were multi purpose. 

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They've got this kind of slender
neck that billows out into this 

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massive fat belly which 
sometimes has a coat of arms on 

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it. 
And they were used because 

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they're stoneware, they're not 
porous. 

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So they were used for carrying 
water and wine. 

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You might fetch wine from the 
Tavern or ale from the Tavern in

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it and you often find them 
smashed on the Thames because 

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there was commonplace. 
They were not just known as 

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Batman or Beardeman Drugs, they 
were also known as Bellamine. 

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That's the word I know. 
Yeah, is it? 

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OK, so that's after apparently, 
Roberto Bellamine, who was a 

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Catholic cardinal. 
He became a cardinal, I think, 

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in about 1599. 
He's Italian and apparently he 

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was known. 
These were known in England as 

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Bellamine Jugs to mock him. 
Now I don't know where exactly 

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the mockery lies. 
I had a look at a picture of him

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to see if he was maybe 
extraordinarily fat because he 

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do have big fat bellies and he 
wasn't, but he was bearded so 

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maybe it was just because he 
looked like that he was anti 

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Protestant. 
So maybe that's why people 

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wanted to mock him and it said 
that he was particularly anti 

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drinking, so they could have 
been some sort of finger up to 

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him by putting your ale or wine 
in here. 

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I don't know if that's just a 
folk tale or if it's true, but 

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it's along those lines that the 
people of the 17th century 

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decided to call these Bellamine 
Jugs. 

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So it's a little bit of entry 
into their humour, which I quite

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like. 
It makes people come alive when 

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you can connect to their humour 
and there's something else about

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these drugs which is 
interesting. 

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Oh, go on. 
That's probably going to be my 

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question anyway, So go for it. 
Do. 

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You want to ask what it is? 
I was going to say now, what's 

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the connection between the 
Bellamine Jugs and the name? 

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Witch bottles. 
Oh, exactly. 

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That is exactly what I was going
to say. 

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So these are often used as 
witches bottles. 

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So what they are, you find them 
mainly not on the river. 

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You'll find them in houses 
buried near doors or near 

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fireplaces. 
That's because that's where bad 

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spirits can enter through those 
openings and they're complete. 

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And inside them is commonly 
found something sharp, like pins

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or nails, and something that 
belongs to a particular person, 

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like their nail clippings or 
hair clippings. 

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And often then it was soaked in 
urine and then sealed up with 

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cork or wax and then it was 
buried. 

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And the idea was it was a 
protective Talisman really, that

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if someone was going to send a 
spell your way, that the spell 

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would get a bit confused because
there's a bit of you in the 

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bottle essentially, and it would
go towards the bottle and then 

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get trapped on the pin or the 
needle kind of poked and secured

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there. 
So it was just people had that 

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in their house to protect 
themselves. 

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Now I have only heard ever of 
one being found in the Thames, a

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witch's bottle complete with 
those items inside. 

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And that was in the 1950s. 
I don't know if any have been 

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found subsequently. 
I think that's because the ones 

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that we find in the Thames are 
probably rubbish that was dumped

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from people's everyday use of 
these items and then they got 

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rid of them and that's the 
reason why. 

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But they did have this wonderful
double life. 

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So these bottles, these ordinary
bottles that had they were 

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sources of humour and they were 
sources of protection as well as

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having an extremely practical 
use. 

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So I really love them and that 
sort of furniture of everyday 

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17th century life I'm holding in
my hand now. 

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That's why I love them. 
Fantastic. 

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And do we know why he's got 
double eyes? 

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No, I answered. 
There was. 

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Unfortunately, it's very 
recently closed the Bellamy 

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Museum and I did ask the 
gentleman who runs it. 

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He hadn't seen one actually with
double eyes. 

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I've subsequently I've seen 
someone on Instagram who has 

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found one, which makes me wonder
if it was deliberate rather than

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a slip. 
It's what's incredible about 

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this, like people, you know how 
sometimes you think, isn't it 

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amazing that we're all basically
the same and yet we all look 

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different? 
How did anyone manage? 

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It's incredible. 
And it's the same with these 

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faces. 
They've got the same basic 

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features and yet everybody is 
every single one is slightly 

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different. 
Grumpy or happy or cheeky or 

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stupid or in this case, double 
eyed. 

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I like to think, as I said, that
it was intentional and he had 

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maybe poor eyesight as opposed 
to it being a slip of the mould.

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And I suppose one thing against 
it being a sip of the mould is 

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that it's only the eyes that are
affected on the rest of the. 

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Face. 
Interesting, isn't it? 

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Maybe that could have been a 
potential Maker's Mark or 

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something. 
That was their thing. 

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The double eyes. 
Yeah, that's very true. 

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Fantastic. 
So I'm glad that you showed that

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00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,480
one because it does show that 
human connection, isn't it? 

228
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,720
It makes sense that the Witch's 
bottles of Bellamine Jugs that 

229
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,960
are there to protect a house or 
on land, it's very similar to 

230
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,000
what they were still doing at 
that time of putting faces 

231
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,160
outside the windows and the 
architecture. 

232
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,000
And you can still see some of 
those in Buckingham Street or 

233
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,520
maybe a Great Queen's Gate. 
So the spirits who would could 

234
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,120
potentially enter the the window
would see these scary faces on 

235
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,160
the outside, very similar to 
gargoyles oils but on a domestic

236
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,560
house and decide not not to 
bother going in. 

237
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,360
I mean if you think we've got 
dream catchers now, haven't we? 

238
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:49,240
We used to put cats in between 
the walls to protect the house 

239
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,560
bodies of cats, not necessarily 
dead when they went in, and also

240
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:59,120
children's shoes above the 
stairwell so the fairies would 

241
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,800
take the children's shoes rather
than going up the stairs to take

242
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,320
the children. 
So that whole idea of fairies 

243
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,560
and changing children and all 
the rest of it was very much 

244
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,560
real for them in their lives. 
I'm going to tell you something 

245
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,160
that's not relevant to London 
history, but it's relevant to 

246
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,480
this, which is when I was 
working in Uganda, I went to 

247
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,400
this extraordinary conference 
once in northern Uganda. 

248
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,320
There was a war at the time, and
it was a conference of priests 

249
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,680
and nuns, and they were being 
taught by witch doctors their 

250
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:31,560
tricks so that they could see 
through them. 

251
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,560
So these were people who 
converted to Christianity and 

252
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:35,240
then revealed all their chicks, 
and the whole thing was 

253
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,000
absolutely brilliant. 
But one of them confessed, and 

254
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:45,120
he confessed that he had on 
occasion murdered children and 

255
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,440
buried their bodies under the 
front of the doorway as a 

256
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,000
protection. 
What if I'm most extraordinary 

257
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,160
about this, was somehow in the 
act of confessing? 

258
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,320
He was then protected from any 
form of prosecution. 

259
00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,120
Somehow by being a Christian 
that wiped away that sin. 

260
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,320
But I I suppose the reason 
that's an extreme example, but I

261
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:09,080
did often find it helpful. 
A lot of my friends in Uganda 

262
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:14,320
were using some form of 
traditional medicine or 

263
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,520
different sorts of spirituality 
to make sense of their life. 

264
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,760
And I've, on that experience 
today, very helpful in 

265
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,920
connecting with the past as well
that are these things still 

266
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,320
happen in other parts of the 
world. 

267
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,360
People still think this way. 
Just because we think a 

268
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,040
different way doesn't mean that 
everybody does. 

269
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,080
No, no exactly. 
Still, when during the play 

270
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,360
gears, like you mentioned, 
people would pay both the grizz 

271
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,920
for spells and you'd have a 
piece of paper with like 

272
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:47,200
abracadabra written on a 
triangle and roll that up, seal 

273
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,200
that and have that round your 
neck and have that carry that 

274
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,360
with you as a Talisman to 
protect you. 

275
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,040
But again, the plague and all 
those sides of things, it was 

276
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,360
all very real then, and it's 
still very real for some people.

277
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,960
Now, I wish you hadn't mentioned
that spell around someone's 

278
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,120
neck, because now I'm just going
to be desperate to find 

279
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:05,680
something like that, and that 
would be a dream. 

280
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,720
Mudlarking. 
Find a piece of paper like that.

281
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,160
That really is a dream. 
I'd love. 

282
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,920
Can find something like that, 
Yeah. 

283
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,360
So I'm going to search for it 
from now on. 

284
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:15,920
Well, there you go. 
You're going to have to keep 

285
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,200
your eyes open for a little 
bottle. 

286
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,880
If you did find something like 
that, you know. 

287
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,080
And the the obvious answer to 
this question is how would you 

288
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,440
know what's inside? 
But would you really? 

289
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:32,120
Would you open it or would you 
ask someone else to do it? 

290
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,440
Like Museum of London or 
something? 

291
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,040
There might not be anything in, 
but if it's all properly sealed 

292
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,440
with wax and everything, then 
isn't that just? 

293
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,800
You've got to know what's 
inside, don't you? 

294
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:42,960
I don't. 
People are always opening things

295
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,080
that they find on the Thames, 
and you get modern offerings all

296
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,280
the times as well, and modern 
spells all the time as well. 

297
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,840
And I've ripped in a plastic bag
and all sorts of weird things 

298
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,120
have come out of it, little 
coins and beans and things like 

299
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,160
that. 
I think if I found something 

300
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,640
that beautifully sealed though 
with wax, I definitely would ask

301
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,080
the Museum of London for help. 
I think that everyone would be 

302
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,600
aware that there's some items, 
you know, it'd be better to get 

303
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,640
expert help, otherwise you're 
going to just ruin them. 

304
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,440
At the moment, what we have to 
do as Mudlux is we have to 

305
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:18,120
report items that are over 300 
years old or a treasure and take

306
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,480
them to the Museum of London and
make sure that they're recorded 

307
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,360
if they're important. 
So I think something like that 

308
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,360
would be off straight away, but 
it would be tempting to know 

309
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,800
what's inside. 
Oh, that was a great 

310
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,400
introduction to that one, Anna. 
So what else have you got for 

311
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,720
us? 
So this is a different sort of 

312
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,080
find. 
It's also pottery, so I'm 

313
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,320
they're really great on pottery 
in the 17th century. 

314
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,440
So in the Tudor times, I've got 
Tudor pottery and it's a little 

315
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,640
bit, I hate to say it's a little
bit samey, but there's a lot of 

316
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,920
red and green and Browns and 
it's quite sort of utilitarian. 

317
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,680
It's not particularly decorated,
so it's nice to find it and it's

318
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,160
exciting, but it's not as 
magically colourful or 

319
00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,040
interesting, I find as the 
pottery in the 17th century. 

320
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,760
So I'm holding here one of my 
favorite finds. 

321
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,920
In fact, this sort of find is so
beloved for me that I actually 

322
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:12,480
sometimes buy tiles like this 
whole from auctions and things 

323
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:13,920
like that because I really love 
them. 

324
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:20,160
So this is a section of a Delft 
tile from around 1640, and on 

325
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,000
this section, so it's about half
a centimetre thick, a grey 

326
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,800
biscuity base. 
And then on top there's a a 

327
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,720
white glaze. 
It's it's quite thick really and

328
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,720
it's got a sort of blue tone to 
it. 

329
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,360
And then there's a little man on
it. 

330
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,960
The man is sitting under a bent 
tree. 

331
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,960
He's leaning forward with his 
arms outstretched. 

332
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,040
It's a perfect little picture 
and it's it's slightly rushed 

333
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,000
off, like it's a cartoon, which 
I really love about this style. 

334
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,280
It's got such an energy to it. 
Now the amazing thing about 

335
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:55,320
these tiles is that through the 
magic of Instagram I connected 

336
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,080
with a collect a proper 
collector of these in Poland and

337
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,840
I can send him these little 
pictures, little snippets and he

338
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,880
tells me what the hole was. 
So apparently. 

339
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,120
These Delft tiles were they were
very common to have biblical 

340
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:11,840
themes on them. 
So this I've got to remember. 

341
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,400
I think it's Elijah being fed by
the Ravens. 

342
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,440
I think I've got a check that 
I've got the right. 

343
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,320
I wrote it down actually because
I is it Elijah? 

344
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,360
I think somebody will definitely
correct me if I've got that 

345
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,560
wrong. 
But he's being fed by the Ravens

346
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,200
in the desert anyway, and I just
find that amazing. 

347
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,120
I've got other little fragments,
often find feathers, and there's

348
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,120
actually a man who's on a horse 
with a feathered cap, but the 

349
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:38,560
first time who showed like a 
little feather. 

350
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,560
Anyway, some man on a horse with
a feathered cap, little feet. 

351
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,920
She seems to know what they are.
I've got this wonderful little 

352
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,680
slightly later one which is a 
collection. 

353
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,600
It's manganese, that's purple 
little collection of feet in the

354
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,720
corner of a tile. 
And he managed to tell me what 

355
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,360
that was as well. 
It's rather brilliant. 

356
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,480
These are beautiful tiles. 
They appear in London in the 

357
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,600
17th century and they originally
come from Delft in the 

358
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,480
Netherlands, which is why 
they're called Delft tiles. 

359
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,320
You also get wonderful ones like
this, which is was imported from

360
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,320
Holland. 
Can you see how beautiful that 

361
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,000
is? 
It's called polychrome Delft and

362
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,600
it's like a riot of beautiful 
colors. 

363
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:16,480
It would have been a small 
floral. 

364
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,920
Isn't it amazing? 
Again, that would have been on 

365
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,160
somebody's wall. 
It could have been in a 

366
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,360
fireplace, it could have been in
a kitchen. 

367
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,800
Some of them are floor tiles, so
you can see that suddenly in 

368
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,120
this world, if you could afford 
it, you were having all these 

369
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,960
beautiful tiles and colour in 
your life. 

370
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,800
And also, just to mention 
quickly, the Dutch ones. 

371
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,480
They really go for little 
cartoons of everyday life. 

372
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,320
So there's I've even seen one. 
I've got one here, which is a 

373
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,840
whole one. 
It's which I bought, which is a 

374
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,840
man holding a child. 
But I've also got sad little 

375
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,080
cat. 
And then you get this, someone 

376
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,600
showed me one recently of 
someone defecating on the 

377
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,440
ground, and then there's 
children playing and there's 

378
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,200
lovers walking along. 
So there is incredible snapshot 

379
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,640
of life in this period in 
Europe. 

380
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,040
So that's why everybody loves 
them. 

381
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,720
If you'd said when you show me 
that tile and said what, what do

382
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,000
you think it would have been? 
Delftware wouldn't have come as 

383
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,280
one of my options because it's 
multi coloured. 

384
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:12,400
Oh yeah. 
Yeah. 

385
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,320
I have blue, blue and white in 
my head of a Delftware so that 

386
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,160
is that's amazing to think. 
We've got the multi coloured 

387
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,120
tile in the home as well for 
Delftware. 

388
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,040
Yeah, it's called Polychrome 
Delft actually because it's 

389
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,720
multi coloured, but it's 
basically the same as Delft. 

390
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,640
It's a tin glaze, that's what, 
this colour. 

391
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,240
Now there is something about 
these, something wonderful about

392
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,320
these tiles which I had never 
thought about. 

393
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,880
Apparently from the late 
medieval period in Europe, 

394
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,680
people became obsessed with 
Chinese and Japanese porcelain. 

395
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:46,160
They saw it for the first time 
and they just thought, Oh my 

396
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,560
gosh, I've just mentioned that 
Tudor stuff is lovely, but it's 

397
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,960
not the most refined of pottery.
And suddenly you're seeing this 

398
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,520
beautiful, nearly translucent 
pottery with these beautiful 

399
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,840
blue and white designs. 
It's like magic and it's white, 

400
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,960
this purity of white. 
How do they get this? 

401
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,000
In fact, the quest for getting 
it settled in people's head and 

402
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,160
it was basically considered 
white gold, sort of ALCO. 

403
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,640
It was like alchemy. 
How do you make white gold? 

404
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,880
Now? 
The amazing thing is that tin 

405
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,000
glaze, which is what Delve did, 
is that icing, like covering on 

406
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,960
top of the biscuit face, is the 
closest anyone had got up to 

407
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,720
that point of creating white, 
which is why it became so 

408
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,520
popular. 
Because you could then afford it

409
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,080
if you were in the middle in 
classes, you had an 

410
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,560
approximation of white, and if 
you had white with cobalt blue, 

411
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,720
which as you've pointed out, 
most of them are white and blue,

412
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,560
you've got an approximation of 
that Chinese feel and that 

413
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,720
Chinese style. 
So it's one reason why it just 

414
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,640
seized everybody's imagination 
so very quickly. 

415
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,480
In London you have Potteries 
springing up along the Thames. 

416
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:56,800
There are very many of them 
actually. 

417
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,400
And at the beginning they have, 
there's a very distinctive 

418
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,320
London Delft and they're quite 
high end and colourful and 

419
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,440
beautiful. 
As the century goes on and into 

420
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,320
the next century, they become 
much more utilitarian and 

421
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:10,840
they're just ordinary little 
pots. 

422
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,280
And they you look at the 
material, it's very kind of 

423
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,400
yellowy biscuity and the glaze 
seems to be chipping off quickly

424
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,800
and it's not so high end. 
The thing what happens in the 

425
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,160
18th century is in I think it's 
in Germany at the very beginning

426
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,720
of the 1700s. 
Somebody works out how to make 

427
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:31,040
really nice porcelain style 
China it and then that begins to

428
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,280
take precedence. 
And then at the end of the 1700s

429
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,200
you have the invention of bone 
China. 

430
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,200
And that's basically Delft's 
death now, because now you've 

431
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,960
got, you've got white, you 
don't, you don't need Delft 

432
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,520
anymore. 
You've got this much better 

433
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,760
pottery available. 
And then you have the whole 

434
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,760
chance. 
World War in Victorian times. 

435
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,720
And what I find amazing about 
this is that nowadays. 

436
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,960
So before white was the dream, 
this dream from China and Japan,

437
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,040
the quest for white, the chasing
after white gold. 

438
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,840
And now it's like the lowest 
common denominator of plate. 

439
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,600
You go into IKEA. 
If you just shorten imagination 

440
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,920
you'll get a white plate. 
And actually if you're on the 

441
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,160
foreshore by a pub, sometimes 
you get a whole white plate 

442
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,520
smashed on the ground because 
they really don't mean anything 

443
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,120
at all. 
And I find that really 

444
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:20,600
interesting that it has so much 
value, this and rarity, and then

445
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,920
it becomes available to 
everybody and eventually it you 

446
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,680
loses its charm. 
It makes you really hammers home

447
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,520
how value isn't inherent in a 
thing offered, it's just 

448
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,360
associated with rarity and how 
easy it is to get hold of it, 

449
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,040
and how quickly people get bored
of things and they're readily 

450
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,160
available. 
In terms of the designs on those

451
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,320
tiles that you were mentioning 
about man holding a child, 

452
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,440
etcetera, they're very domestic,
aren't they? 

453
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:51,320
So are these for homes that are 
not to be seen by anybody that 

454
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,200
needs to be impressed? 
That's a very, that's a very 

455
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,680
good question. 
First of all, I don't know. 

456
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,880
I always get the impression that
those domestic scenes are from 

457
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,720
Holland. 
I don't know if those domestic 

458
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,440
scenes are made in England. 
Actually, I just, I get the 

459
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,280
impression that they're not. 
That is a really good question 

460
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,840
and I don't know the answer to 
it. 

461
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,840
And I am now going to try and 
find out that answer because it 

462
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,040
makes yes, it's a really 
interesting question. 

463
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,000
I'm. 
I'm more like to think of people

464
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,520
thinking I'm going to get a 
picture of a guy squatting down 

465
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,640
doing a poo and put him in my 
house. 

466
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,320
That's funny. 
I know that bemuses me. 

467
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,440
But you're absolutely right. 
Would if would the visiting 

468
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:28,600
Alderman have thought it was 
funny? 

469
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,360
Maybe not. 
Yeah, very. 

470
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:32,600
That was a very good question. 
Thank you very much. 

471
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,080
I'm full of them. 
Sure, just give me a. 

472
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:36,840
Time. 
That's your job. 

473
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,320
So what? 
That's fantastic. 

474
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,160
So what item third item have we 
got on the list that you want to

475
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:44,760
share? 
Anna. 

476
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:54,360
OK, so this is something very 
specific to a time and a place. 

477
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,640
These are coins. 
Now, I'm not one of those people

478
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,600
who really loves coins. 
The people who go out and all 

479
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,480
they want is coins, absolutely 
love them often. 

480
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,480
I think the coins is amazing 
when you find them, but a little

481
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,480
bit, say me, but these are 
really special. 

482
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,200
These are. 
I found my first one right after

483
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,440
Brexit and I was a bit 
perplexed. 

484
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,600
Didn't have a King's head on it.
On one side there was a shield 

485
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,160
and on the other side there were
two interlocking Shields. 

486
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,120
And I just couldn't make sense 
of it. 

487
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,320
And so I went and asked someone 
and it turns out that these were

488
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:31,800
issued in a very short period of
England's history and they are 

489
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,640
Commonwealth coins. 
So the King has been beheaded 

490
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,240
and the coins remove his head as
well. 

491
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,200
So for the first time, our 
coinage doesn't have the King or

492
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,440
Queen's head on it. 
Instead, there's a shield that 

493
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,760
represents St. 
George, it's represents England 

494
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,720
and it's got a Laurel and a palm
on it which represent 

495
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,120
Parliament's victory. 
And on the other side, I think 

496
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:01,680
it's England and Ireland on the 
Shields Co joined. 

497
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,440
So on some of the bigger coins 
there's actually writing as 

498
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,480
well, which just like King's 
head's not on it. 

499
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,760
There's also this writing is no 
longer in Latin, it's in 

500
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,320
English. 
A bit of the Puritan Etho. 

501
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,240
You want to be able to access 
things. 

502
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,680
You don't need the obscurity of 
Latin to get there. 

503
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,440
And they say the Commonwealth of
England on one side, and on the 

504
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,880
other side it says God with us. 
So which the time would say the 

505
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,240
Commonwealth is on the other 
side to God, like they're 

506
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,240
opposing. 
I think that was quite funny. 

507
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,440
And also there were a lot of 
jokes about how the two crossed 

508
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,400
over Shields looked like a 
little bit like a bum, like a 

509
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,680
rump, like the rump bum jokes 
going on there as well. 

510
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,840
But I just find it absolutely 
fascinating, partly because 

511
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,960
there's not much trace really of
the Commonwealth. 

512
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,040
It was such a short period, you 
don't find much trace on the 

513
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:59,000
foreshore, maybe musket balls 
further, very much further 

514
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,720
upstream. 
But generally the battles 

515
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,680
weren't fought on the Thames, so
there's not much direct 

516
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,680
evidence. 
This is one of the few things 

517
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,680
that we have. 
And I believe that when Cromwell

518
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,720
formed the Protectorate, he was 
put on some coins as an attempt 

519
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,200
to start back to the notion of 
the old ways to give him power 

520
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,960
because he was losing power. 
But I've never found one of 

521
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,520
those. 
It's just these Commonwealth 

522
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:29,840
coins and they just reflect just
such a intriguing bit of English

523
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,360
history. 
The one the I've got two, as I 

524
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:37,400
said one of them is pierced. 
I don't know why that is so it 

525
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,800
could be there's a number of 
reasons. 

526
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,600
Apparently sometimes people 
pierced coins so that they could

527
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,600
string them if they had a few 
and they could hide them in 

528
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,080
their clothes because it was 
easy to carry was you might lose

529
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,320
them. 
It's much more likely that this 

530
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,160
was possibly strung by someone 
who wanted to work to show their

531
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:57,480
support, but much more likely it
was pierced to destroy it when 

532
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,240
Charles the Second became king 
because they removed about 2/3 

533
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,560
of these coins from circulation.
And I think it was only the very

534
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,080
low denomination coins at the 
ones I found that sort of 

535
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,360
remained knocking about. 
But they might still have been 

536
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:13,200
pierced, even though they 
weren't removed, to show that 

537
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,960
they were just no, they had no 
merit, No worth. 

538
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,600
And also it could be an 
expression of anger. 

539
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,680
Someone might have thought that 
was a pretty grim 11 years I'm 

540
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,360
going to stab that coin. 
But anyway, I for that, for 

541
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:26,720
those reasons, I find it 
fascinating. 

542
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,560
The other thing is just 
personal. 

543
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,120
I'm not AI. 
When Brexit happened, I was 

544
00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:36,400
rather glum. 
I'm not a supporter of, I wasn't

545
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,200
a supporter of the Leave 
campaign. 

546
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,880
And I was feeling glum when I 
picked this up. 

547
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,280
And I just thought, oh, there we
go. 

548
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840
Look, there's this huge 
experiment, political 

549
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,920
experiment, 300 and nearly 400 
years ago. 

550
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,760
And life goes on and everything 
changes. 

551
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,320
And just because Brexit happen 
doesn't mean it'll always stay 

552
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,360
this way. 
Maybe it'll roll on and change 

553
00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:59,960
again. 
It suddenly gave me a longer 

554
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,440
view when you realize that 
something dramatic happened in 

555
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,880
the past and yet time moved on 
and events changed. 

556
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,840
So it gave me some solace for 
some reason finding this coin. 

557
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,480
And just to fill listeners in as
well, if you're not too sure 

558
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,120
about that, the rump Parliament 
and that. 

559
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,600
But basically when 1649 Charles 
the 1st is beheaded in January 

560
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,640
and the Parliamentarians are now
ruling, so you've got not so 

561
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,720
King Oliver Cromwell, our great 
Lord Protector. 

562
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,840
And during this time it had all 
been a political farce really, 

563
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,560
in order to gain control by the 
Parliamentarians. 

564
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,560
And when we're talking about the
Rump, this was something that 

565
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,440
you also saw on the streets, so 
the Rump Parliament. 

566
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:46,000
And we had also butchers, shops 
and people burning rumps on the 

567
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,880
street corners around London. 
And and that is wonderfully 

568
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,000
depicted in a picture called 
Burning the Rumps at Temple Bar 

569
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,200
by William Hogarth. 
And it's a row of London butcher

570
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,680
shops. 
And they were all on fire. 

571
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,080
But this political body that was
replaced much of the previous, 

572
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,880
the old government during the 
English Civil War and this 

573
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,440
protesting historical event was 
in 1659 and they just burnt 

574
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,280
these beef rumps just on the 
street. 

575
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,000
There was like political 
effigies and so when Anna's 

576
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,920
mentioning about the two Shields
looking like little buttocks as 

577
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,280
well, and this is all relating 
into that. 

578
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,640
So I'll try and find an image of
the Hogarth one for you to have 

579
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,600
a look at if you wanted to 
access that in the show notes as

580
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,160
well. 
Thank you for that what I have. 

581
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,480
I say that I've learned about 
bits of London's history through

582
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,840
these finds, and it's true that 
I have learned about bits of 

583
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,000
London history, but often it's 
just a little door you've 

584
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,200
punched through to see a very 
partial view. 

585
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,440
And I'm putting together a 
patchwork, but they're huge 

586
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,160
gaps. 
So thank you for filling out a 

587
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,400
bit more for me. 
OK, Anna, then what's up next? 

588
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,920
#4 to come OK, I'm racing 
through these OK though, so this

589
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,280
one, a small white pot, it's 
actually dealt. 

590
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,360
It's tin glaze, as we were 
talking about before, but 

591
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:15,680
English made so rather than 
imported and it's complete. 

592
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,440
I found it on a really low tide,
an unexpected low tide. 

593
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,440
And when I saw it I was so 
thrilled because it's very 

594
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,160
uncommon to find complete 
pottery like this. 

595
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,840
Apparently only 70 or 80 years 
ago they were commonly found. 

596
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,120
And there is a famous Thames 
mudlock, the type of mudlock 

597
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,200
called Ivan or Hugh, and he 
thought there were so many 

598
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,520
because people threw them away. 
They were that common, but 

599
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,800
they're not anymore, so I was 
thrilled. 

600
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,560
So this is actually an 
apothecary pot and it's the kind

601
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,200
of pot that if you went to the 
apothecary and said I need a 

602
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:59,040
medicine for the my sore arm, 
excuse me, they would have put 

603
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,360
their concoction into a little 
pot like this and sealed it the 

604
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,560
material and string and given it
to you. 

605
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,680
Now apothecaries are basically 
pharmacists. 

606
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,120
They live, they're not the sort 
of high status as doctors. 

607
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,480
Doctors have university 
educations and they run the posh

608
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,120
and they're above the sort of in
the kind of ranking. 

609
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,720
They're above the traditional 
healers or the cunning men and 

610
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,480
women, as they were called, the 
people who did expel and also 

611
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,720
use traditional medicine. 
They sit between the two. 

612
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,600
They had a Guild, so they were 
taken very seriously in that 

613
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,080
way. 
And they had at least seven 

614
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,720
years training and would take on
an apprenticeship to have that 

615
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,720
training and you'd go along and 
they would make up these 

616
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,760
concoctions. 
So it's a wonderful bit of 

617
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,160
England's medical history in the
17th century. 

618
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,560
But what I love about this, I 
was thinking, I wonder what they

619
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,360
put in this, this, I mean, what 
kind of ingredients would they 

620
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:53,400
use? 
I had a little Google. 

621
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,440
So there's the sort of standard 
herbs, minerals, your gemstone, 

622
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,760
but then they also like quite 
exotic ingredients like bear fat

623
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:10,280
or Sparrow brain or lion fat. 
But my favorite ingredient, 

624
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:17,000
which again opens up a an opens 
up an idea of how people in this

625
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,920
century viewed the world is 
mumia, which I'm sure you've 

626
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,040
heard of Mumia. 
Mumia is what it sounds like. 

627
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,720
It is mummy. 
It is Egyptian mummy. 

628
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,320
So basically powdered Egyptian 
mummy. 

629
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,880
And you think what? 
I know it sounds really naive, 

630
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,800
but I hadn't really thought 
about people in the 17th century

631
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,440
even having a notion of ancient 
Egypt. 

632
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,720
Someone I got stuck with the 
images of the Victorians and the

633
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,000
Edwardians discovering these 
tombs. 

634
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,840
It hadn't really occurred to me 
that people had a much more 

635
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,360
cosmopolitan view of the world, 
so they were getting these, this

636
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,480
Mummia. 
And apparently Mumia came to 

637
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,520
European attention during the 
Crusades. 

638
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,880
They heard of this amazing 
substance that came from 

639
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,600
Egyptian mummies. 
And the idea is, along the way 

640
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,920
they confuse the notion of a 
kind of bitumen that's used in 

641
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,640
the process of mummifying with 
the actual body itself. 

642
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,560
So, So the people who were 
talking about the amazing 

643
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,159
qualities of Mummia, we're not 
talking about the same things as

644
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:18,520
the Europeans understood, which 
is actually crumbled body. 

645
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,880
As a result of this hearing 
about the qualities of Mumia, 

646
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,520
people started buying mummies 
from Egypt or raiding tombs. 

647
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,440
In fact, Egypt got incredibly 
annoyed about it in about the 

648
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,080
1500s because they were just 
being raided the whole time so 

649
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,920
that apothecaries in England 
could have this magical 

650
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,760
ingredient. 
Now what's interesting is about 

651
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,800
the time in about the 1600s, 
Mumia began to get a really bad 

652
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,719
Rep because people knew it was 
running out. 

653
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,000
Something called Force Mumia 
came on the market and false 

654
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,480
Mummia is rather unfortunately 
if you have an executed body, of

655
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,520
which there were many at this 
time, or even a desiccated rat 

656
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,160
or some other kind of dead body,
you could pass that off in 

657
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,960
pounded form to your apothecary 
if you were selling to them, and

658
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,800
then the unwitting apothecary 
would be passing it on to their 

659
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,600
to their consumers. 
So around the 1600s Mummia 

660
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,560
begins to go out of fashion, 
although it continues to be used

661
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,800
into the 18th century. 
But that's just fascinating for 

662
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,960
so many ways. 
How people unders, how people 

663
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,520
relate and understand other 
cultures, This idea of a 

664
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,000
cosmopolitan understanding of 
the world, the idea of 

665
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,320
international trade, the idea of
people raiding mummy, the idea 

666
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,360
of tricksters. 
I just it just completely 

667
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,640
altered the way I thought about 
people's mentality in the 17th 

668
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,080
century. 
OK, what else have you got for 

669
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,360
us? 
Well, can I just say that the, I

670
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,680
haven't got any particular story
associated with this. 

671
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,960
There's things I want to 
research about it, but it's just

672
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,160
such a wonderful find. 
I just, I picked up this, Can 

673
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,920
you see it? 
It is the weeniest little glass 

674
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,160
bottle from the middle of the 
17th century. 

675
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,120
And I'm showing it to you 
because I picked it up only 

676
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,360
about a month ago on a again on 
a very low tide. 

677
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,120
It's absolutely perfect. 
I thought it was an apothecary 

678
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,600
vial. 
It might have been. 

679
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,480
It could have also been on a 
ladies dressing table for some 

680
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,160
kind of perfume. 
I just want to I apparently 

681
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,800
there's not much research on it 
because I did ask a bottle 

682
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,880
person about it. 
That's research what these were 

683
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,560
precisely used for. 
But then oh, I have to really 

684
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,920
describe it. 
It's a very small about an inch 

685
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,240
high beautiful green bottle with
a fat. 

686
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:39,640
I don't know how to say it it 
it's a fat body and then goes up

687
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,080
into briefly into a slender neck
and then it's got a very flat 

688
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:49,360
top and it really is perfect. 
And I found it sideways on the 

689
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,160
edge of a tide and it was 
actually encased in like it had 

690
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,600
been concreted in over time. 
So it dropped in and then been 

691
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,480
concreted in and the tide was 
coming in and I couldn't get it 

692
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,040
out. 
And there's some parts of the 

693
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,960
northern shore that you're only 
allowed to search by eye, you're

694
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,200
not allowed to use a trout, 
you're not allowed to dig. 

695
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,560
Only a few people have a license
to do that and luckily there was

696
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,360
a gentleman there who does have 
that license. 

697
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,280
I called him over, he's called 
Guy. 

698
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,360
So I shouted out Guy and people 
thought I was shouting at Guy, 

699
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,640
so there was a bit of a trample 
over to see what I was doing. 

700
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,720
I was like he thought I was 
calling everyone over and he 

701
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:25,160
very kindly used the end of his 
Stroud to get it out and we had 

702
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,040
the water lapping at our feet 
and he eventually extracted it 

703
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,280
from me and it was a really 
thrilling 17th century find. 

704
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,160
I don't know why it's in the 
water, but I'm very glad I got 

705
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,800
it out. 
It's not usual to find these and

706
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,960
it was a treat. 
So I say that tell you about the

707
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,880
17th century, but to tell you 
that there are delightful finds 

708
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,600
from the 17th century, and this 
particular one gave me great 

709
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,320
pleasure. 
It really is quite beautiful, 

710
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:51,440
isn't it? 
It's amazing. 

711
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,960
Oh yeah, it really is very 
beautiful. 

712
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,520
Oh gosh, I'm holding up to the 
light now. 

713
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,080
I'm still very excited by. 
I'm still getting a buzz. 

714
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,760
So I'm going to move on to a 
different sort of fine now, if 

715
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,960
that's OK. 
So actually this is an 18th 

716
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,240
century, fine, but it relates to
the 17th century. 

717
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,560
So I picked this little button 
up a few years ago. 

718
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,320
I only discovered yesterday it 
was silver. 

719
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,040
It was tarnished and I thought 
it was some. 

720
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:15,920
I don't know what that is. 
It never occurred to me it was 

721
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,080
actually silver, but I rubbed it
with a bit of tin foil and if 

722
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,800
it's silver, it gives off a very
strong whiff of sulphur. 

723
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:23,360
And that is exactly what 
happened. 

724
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,160
So it's a silver button and it 
says on it, Phoenix, I think 

725
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,640
it's Phoenix Fire Office or 
yeah, Phoenix Fire Service. 

726
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,080
So this is, and it's got as an 
image, Phoenix rising from the 

727
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,200
ashes. 
So this is a button that would 

728
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,400
have been on the uniform of one 
of the private fire insurance 

729
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,240
companies operated in London 
from the 17th century right up 

730
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:51,080
until Victorian times. 
Now the reason that's relevant 

731
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,720
is because these companies 
formed as a direct result of the

732
00:38:55,720 --> 00:39:00,360
Great Fire of London. 
So London was 3/4 burned to the 

733
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,000
ground and some tanny 
businessmen thought there's an 

734
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,560
opportunity to make money here. 
Apparently the idea had been 

735
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,240
knocking around for a couple of 
decades before they thought why 

736
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:12,000
don't we start a fire insurance 
company? 

737
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,720
So the first one was started by 
a gentleman. 

738
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:17,200
I've actually had to write down 
his name because it's so 

739
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,680
brilliant he was born. 
With. 

740
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,720
The name. 
Let me just see if I can find it

741
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:22,560
here. 
Oh, here we go. 

742
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,560
He was born with the name. 
Hath Christ not died for thee? 

743
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,920
Thou wouldn't be damned. 
Bare bone, bare bone being his 

744
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,160
last name, but he later changed 
his name to Nicholas Barben for 

745
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,680
obvious reasons. 
What brilliant name is that? 

746
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,560
He had a very fiery father 
apparently, who was in the 

747
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,200
parliament and he started the 
first fire insurance company in 

748
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,640
1680, which was called the Fire 
Office. 

749
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,000
Now I actually thought that this
Phoenix Fire badge related to 

750
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,080
that originally because he's it 
became the Phoenix Company and 

751
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,400
he had this emblem and that 
seems to be the general view. 

752
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,320
But I got down a rabbit hole of 
fire insurance documents and 

753
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,280
ended up reading that in fact 
his company had collapsed. 

754
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,160
And this company had started 
about 80 years later in Georgian

755
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,400
times. 
But there were a whole load of 

756
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,160
fire insurance companies that 
started. 

757
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,280
There's some fire insurance 
company. 

758
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,160
I think there's a friend's. 
Is it the friend's office, the 

759
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,440
fire office, some fire alliance 
hand in hand. 

760
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,960
They had little tin signs that 
they put on their wall to show 

761
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,080
that the buildings were covered 
by that particular fire 

762
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,320
insurance company. 
And they didn't just pay out 

763
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,000
money, they actually had little 
private firefighters. 

764
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:42,440
So and each insurance company 
had their group of firefighters 

765
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,560
who would wear a little uniform.
Their uniforms were distinct, 

766
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,560
beautifully buttoned, which is 
why this I have such a beautiful

767
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,840
button here, marked out in red 
and with lovely piping. 

768
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,480
And what's interesting is that 
they were actually recruited 

769
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,480
largely from Thames Waterman, 
which I hadn't known till 

770
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,120
recently. 
And that's partly because Thames

771
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,440
Waterman could zip up and down 
the river, and it was the most 

772
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,680
effective way of getting around 
if there was a fire, rather than

773
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,480
trying to move around London's 
busy streets. 

774
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,800
And the great advantage for the 
Thames Waterman was because of 

775
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,120
an act of Parliament at the end 
of the 17th century, if you 

776
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,080
signed up to be a firefighter in
this one, one of these insurance

777
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,480
companies, you were exempt from 
being press gagged into joining 

778
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,960
the Navy. 
So that was a real incentive to 

779
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,760
join anyway. 
These fire insurance companies 

780
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,520
continued throughout the 18th 
century. 

781
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,840
There's a myth that if someone 
from the Sun Alliance company 

782
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,880
saw somebody from the hand in 
hand company saw a property from

783
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,680
hand in hand company burning, 
they wouldn't put that fire out.

784
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,480
But actually that wasn't the 
case because obviously if the 

785
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,000
hand in hand company had a 
building burning and it was next

786
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,040
to a Sun one, everyone's going 
to be affected. 

787
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,080
So they were very quickly 
cooperating, working out deals 

788
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,280
between each other, and 
eventually that corporation 

789
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,960
ended up with a big metropolitan
fire company being started in 

790
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,120
Victorian times in London. 
But the origins of that were 

791
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,240
from the Great Fire of London, 
and this badge is one of the 

792
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:07,960
steps along the way that show 
how we ended up with a fire 

793
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,360
service. 
And if our listeners are 

794
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,760
anywhere near Magnus and Martyr 
Church at any point, then have a

795
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,960
little look in, because there is
a strange contraption which is 

796
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,520
one of the earliest fire engines
that we have in London. 

797
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,480
And I'll put a link to a blog 
post that we have as well. 

798
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,600
And there's one other fire 
related object I found. 

799
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,480
I just, it's not it doesn't look
very interesting. 

800
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,920
But this when I found, I mean, I
don't know what's wrong with me 

801
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,560
sometimes I picked this up and I
thought, oh, it's a bit of 

802
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,680
leather with a lot of studs in 
and my mind, for example. 

803
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,680
My mind, I don't know why my 
mind did this. 

804
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,000
It went immediately to some sort
of nefarious use. 

805
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,200
I thought it was some sort of 
sex toy, a sort of awful strap. 

806
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,440
Of course it's not. 
It's used to secure a leather 

807
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,360
bucket. 
That you would you. 

808
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,600
There's an example in the fire 
and there used to be an example 

809
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,800
of London. 
So they did have that that was a

810
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,160
kind of tool they'd use a fire 
bucket like this. 

811
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,560
They had quite basic tool. 
They used basically a poles to 

812
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,440
bring down buildings to stop 
them burning. 

813
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,400
But yes, that fire, that fire 
engine is in that wonderful 

814
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:16,240
church along with that amazing 
model of the of London Bridge, 

815
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:18,960
which is just like you can stand
there dreaming for ages as you 

816
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,080
watch all these little tiny 
figures on the old London 

817
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,840
Bridge, living their life if you
make good life. 

818
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,920
All right, so we have had the 
witch bottle, we've had the 

819
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:35,080
delve tile, the beautiful coin, 
the complete pottery, and a 

820
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,200
silver button. 
Have you got anything else for 

821
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,640
us? 
I have another coin, but it's a 

822
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,200
very special actually. 
The Commonwealth coin was quite 

823
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:51,440
special, but these are really 
magic because they connect you 

824
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,640
not with a king or with a period
of history, but with an actual 

825
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,440
person. 
So I'm holding it up so you can 

826
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,840
see Hazel, it's a a little round
disk, like any coin. 

827
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,880
It's actually very thin. 
It's copper alloy. 

828
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,040
It looks like it's gold, but 
that's deceiving. 

829
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,280
That's Thames Gilding, because 
when the certain materials go in

830
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,760
the Thames, they get this, They 
come out with this. 

831
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,520
Wonderful golden colour that can
really trick you. 

832
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,640
The first few times you see it 
very excited and that you found 

833
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,640
gold, but it's still nonetheless
absolutely magical. 

834
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,160
Find beautiful. 
It is beautiful. 

835
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,520
On one side of this coin, there 
at the centre, there's it has 

836
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:35,960
PHE written in a triangle, the 
letters and around it says at Ye

837
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,560
Whit Horse Tavern. 
And on the reverse, there's an 

838
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,840
image in the centre of a running
horse and around it it says in 

839
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,280
Friday Street with an E on the 
end. 

840
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:59,600
Now this is a traders token. 
Now basically for years people 

841
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:02,160
struggled with the fact that 
there was no small change 

842
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,920
because our coins were silver 
and gold and if you want to get 

843
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,360
an egg and you've only got a 
silver coin, you're going to be 

844
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,240
a bit stuffed if you want to get
changed. 

845
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,520
So people found all sorts of 
ways to get around that. 

846
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,720
They cut the coin into half or 
into quarters. 

847
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:15,760
You can't cut it into an eighth 
to get your egg. 

848
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,320
You're going to lose it. 
These coins are tiny, so for 

849
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,760
centuries people have been using
these lead tokens. 

850
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,320
So if you were a business, you 
might have these crude lead 

851
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,640
tokens, maybe with a little 
cross on it, or a picture of a 

852
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,760
very roughly cast picture of a 
wine glass. 

853
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,520
And someone would come in to buy
their AL with their coin and you

854
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:36,960
might give them a load of tokens
back. 

855
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,920
And because they lived locally, 
they could keep using those 

856
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,680
tokens when they came in, on the
understanding that at some point

857
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,640
they could actually, if they 
wanted to, trade all the tokens 

858
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,760
in and get their coin back. 
So that was how it worked for 

859
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,120
ages. 
It was a sort of unofficial 

860
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,960
economy that was necessary 
because the Royal Mint wasn't 

861
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,680
giving people any other options.
Now after Charles the First was 

862
00:45:54,680 --> 00:46:00,000
executed, Parliament said, do 
you know what folks, you can 

863
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,760
mint your own traders, tokens, 
They can't be made out of silver

864
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,360
or gold, they have to be made 
out of a base metal. 

865
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,160
But you can knock yourself out, 
go and make yourself really high

866
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,280
quality tokens. 
And people did. 

867
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:17,200
They did it from 9/16/49 right 
up to about 1673. 

868
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,480
So there's a quite a short 
period of flourishing of about 

869
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,920
4000 coins. 
And these coins were issued by 

870
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,600
individuals and individual 
businesses. 

871
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,800
So for example, I've described 
this coin to you and I can tell 

872
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:36,640
you that PE is actually Henry 
Petty or Petit and his wife 

873
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,880
Elizabeth, and they lived on 
Friday St. in the late 1650s, 

874
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,160
early 1660s. 
He was a wine merchant, A 

875
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,960
vintner operating out of White 
Horse Tavern. 

876
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,040
I don't know if he owned the 
White Horse Tavern or he 

877
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,960
operated out of it, I'm not 
sure, but certainly he was 

878
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,080
involved in wine, worked there, 
and by 1663 he had at least two 

879
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,280
children. 
He was a local boy. 

880
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,320
He was born in the same parish, 
the parish of Saint Margaret 

881
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,680
Moses, in the city. 
The church was at the end of the

882
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,280
street. 
Unfortunately for him, the 

883
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,000
church, the street, everything 
was burned down in the Great 

884
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,240
Fire because he lived just a 
stone's throw from Pudding Lane 

885
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:16,960
where the Great Fire started. 
So you get quite a lot of these 

886
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,640
on the foreshore and I expect a 
lot of them fell out of people's

887
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,080
pockets as they were running for
towards the foreshore to try and

888
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,240
get boats across the river. 
During the Grapevine, people 

889
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:30,120
headed out of the city on horses
and carts with their belongings.

890
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,040
Other people crushed down 
towards the river and items fell

891
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,280
out of their pocket and you find
quite a lot of these. 

892
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:40,080
I imagine that they also lost 
their value after 1673 because 

893
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,400
they were no longer you were no 
longer allowed to use as the the

894
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,600
government of the time instead 
started issuing cop coins and 

895
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,480
tried to solve the problem of 
lack of change themselves. 

896
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,720
Anyway, it's remarkable that on 
this coin I've pulled Henry and 

897
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:57,960
his wife out of obscurity. 
So I've literally dragged them 

898
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,120
back into living memory. 
Like raising Lazarus is 

899
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,960
extraordinary. 
And I think that's why people 

900
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,240
love these traders tokens. 
I've got a few of them. 

901
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:11,000
I've got another one. 
I've got a John Fielder who was 

902
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,800
married to Anna. 
He had six kids. 

903
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,840
He lived in Kingston upon Thames
and I'm not sure what he did for

904
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,760
a job because the symbol on the 
coin is a bit confusing. 

905
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,880
It looks like maybe it was 
something to do with wheat, I'm 

906
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,800
not sure. 
But his father was a candle 

907
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:29,240
maker and he was a Quaker and he
I found out because of that he 

908
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:33,240
was fined for his beliefs. 
He refused to take a oath of 

909
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:38,000
allegiance and he was fined. 
And then the Quakers record what

910
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,480
happens to their membership in 
The Sufferings of the Quakers. 

911
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,320
So I also know that he was 
imprisoned in 1667 for refusing 

912
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,400
to swear an oath. 
So I know that about this. 

913
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,840
Otherwise for all I know, 
unremarkable man, an ordinary 

914
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,400
person, has been revived just by
finding these coins. 

915
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,560
And of course they historically,
they're really interesting as 

916
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,680
well because you suddenly have 
really detailed information 

917
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,080
about 4000 businesses and a lot 
of the coins linked to London 

918
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,800
and particularly the City of 
London. 

919
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,440
And one of the things I find 
really interesting is that women

920
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,920
in general tend to be invisible 
men. 

921
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,360
It's as if the world is 
populated only by men because 

922
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,720
they are the only ones who 
appear in the record doing 

923
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:22,800
anything. 
But actually women were working 

924
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,360
too and huge numbers of women in
the 17th century weren't married

925
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,160
and had to make their own way 
anyway. 

926
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,760
And about 3%, which is about 140
of these coins relate to women. 

927
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,320
They are women owned businesses,
In fact some of the coins say on

928
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,480
them his halfpenny, but you get 
the odd few that say her 

929
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,360
halfpenny, which is wonderful. 
And these women were Tavern 

930
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:49,400
owners for example, or Taylors 
and you can suddenly they come 

931
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,000
out of the shadows, these women,
and you realise that they were 

932
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,800
there, They were doing things 
that they were probably working 

933
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,920
alongside their husbands and the
apothecaries. 

934
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,920
They knew just as much as their 
husband did, but they weren't 

935
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,920
being given official status and 
so they weren't being entered 

936
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,840
into records. 
So I think information like that

937
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,680
you can glean from this coin is 
just really important, not just 

938
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,400
for making sure that women are 
acknowledged in history, but 

939
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,240
just because it gives you a 
fuller picture of individuals 

940
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,040
and what life was in my mental 
image of that period. 

941
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,600
Suddenly I popped back in all 
these women. 

942
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,440
I put back in the women running 
the pubs and the women next and 

943
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,360
the apothecaries, they are there
when formally they're invisible.

944
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,640
So these are, these are like, 
they're like magic beans. 

945
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,840
These trade these token. 
And as I said, they were stopped

946
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,720
in 1673. 
The people weren't allowed to 

947
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:41,440
use them anymore. 
And that's when the government 

948
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,400
said, OK, we're just, we're 
going to mint copper coins, 

949
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,480
we're going to stop doing just 
silver and gold, we're going to 

950
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,040
value coins and stamp the King's
head on it. 

951
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,600
And so tokens eventually kind of
fall out of favour, but it's 

952
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,960
just really intriguing. 
It's it's intriguing on a number

953
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,680
of levels because also we're 
talking about a local currency. 

954
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,080
You can use them to create 
basically a directory of 

955
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,440
businesses where you wouldn't 
have had the Yellow Pages. 

956
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,280
So this is helping us put 
together. 

957
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,760
Last year I read an interesting 
book actually about tokens 

958
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,760
during the time of Samuel Peeps.
It was written by George Berry 

959
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,760
as in Lack Berry Taverns and 
Tokens of Peeps's London, and I 

960
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,400
thought that was very 
interesting and he explains how 

961
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,720
they were used. 
I don't know if you know 

962
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,240
anything about the White Hart on
Friday St. 

963
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:33,160
Should I tell you a little bit 
about it? 

964
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,000
Do you know about the White 
Hart? 

965
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,160
Yes. 
I really like your pubs, pubs, 

966
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,000
but also called the streets. 
On London it's called Friday St.

967
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:44,760
because that's where you would 
go on Friday to buy your fish 

968
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,120
because you weren't allowed to 
eat meat. 

969
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,920
So this is a very smelly, fishy 
St. 

970
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,720
We've also got Fish St. 
Hill as well, but the White 

971
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,440
Horse on Friday St. destroyed 
during the great fight. 

972
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:02,680
It was rebuilt and it was added 
on, etcetera all the way to and 

973
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:07,720
it actually eventually closed 
until about 1931 when it was 

974
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:10,840
then later demolished. 
How amazing. 

975
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,920
I've got another one, actually, 
from the oh, I haven't got the I

976
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,800
can't. 
I haven't got my glasses, so I 

977
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,640
can't read the location. 
I'm going to send it to you 

978
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,320
afterwards. 
But it's a cock, A hoop. 

979
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,720
A cock and a hoop. 
And it's a Tavern, but it's not 

980
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:25,440
the one on Fleet Street. 
It seems to be adjacent to it 

981
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,000
and I just can't find any 
details of it, so I'm going to 

982
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:33,040
send you what I do have a. 
Maybe in your magical mind 

983
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,200
you'll be able to give me more 
information, because I was very 

984
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,760
thrilled by this traders token 
as well. 

985
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,920
Oh, it's fantastic, isn't it? 
Because it just gives you a 

986
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:45,480
little bit of a insight into how
businesses were having to do 

987
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,920
everything themselves, having to
produce their own Disney money. 

988
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,760
Yeah. 
If we think about individual 

989
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,280
business owners like myself now,
and you think we've got to be 

990
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,280
your own, your accountant and 
your own marketer and your own 

991
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,840
admin and this, that and the 
other, but at least I don't have

992
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,960
to print my own money. 
Printing your own money would be

993
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,960
pretty fun, actually. 
I think they've done a really 

994
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,800
good job. 
These trade tokens are really 

995
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,880
attractive. 
I love the little horse running 

996
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,480
out and these little sheaves and
I don't know, I think I'd feel 

997
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,320
really chuffed if I have my own 
coin. 

998
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,560
I know exactly what I'd how I'd 
look if I put myself on a coin. 

999
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,480
Hold on a second just for a 
number. 

1000
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,120
How about that? 
You look very regal. 

1001
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,040
It's got a very chewed air to 
it. 

1002
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:28,280
Fantastic. 
That's what I thought as well. 

1003
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,120
It's, listen, it's I thought I 
treated myself at Christmas and 

1004
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,920
I bought myself a little 
headband that looks like a 

1005
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,080
French hood during Amberlin's 
time. 

1006
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,320
Yes, OK, bells and all. 
Very impressive. 

1007
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,120
Oh, I actually, yes. 
I think I'd. 

1008
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,480
I think I don't want to. 
Go on and on. 

1009
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,640
I think that those are. 
I hope those finds give you some

1010
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,960
idea of why I find 16th century 
objects on the foreshore so 

1011
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,200
exciting, and what a revelation 
they are when it comes to 

1012
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,800
understanding the period. 
And I have other finds. 

1013
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,400
They're all I have. 
These little Agilets, for 

1014
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,520
example, which are lace shapes. 
In the 17th century, everybody 

1015
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,400
loved having these. 
They used them to seal the 

1016
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,760
whenever they had like dangling 
bits of lace or ties, they put 

1017
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,240
these on the end to help them 
thread. 

1018
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:14,440
And you find these. 
All the times I'm into the pins 

1019
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:20,640
and I've got a seal matrix with 
a dove and a holding a olive 

1020
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,480
branch in his beak that I always
imagined that this was dropped 

1021
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,560
by someone escaping the great 
fire of London. 

1022
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,960
That seems the kind of thing 
you'd slip into your pocket and 

1023
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,440
you know fall out quite easily. 
And buckles that would have been

1024
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,960
on knee breeches, maybe. 
They also, as people climbed 

1025
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:39,800
into boats and then of course 
the ubiquitous rose Farthing, 

1026
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,080
which are these tiny little 
copper coins with the brass 

1027
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,320
insert, stop counterfeiting that
a lot of us think, well, maybe 

1028
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,000
used for welfares because 
they're so very common. 

1029
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,000
They were private attitude 
before the tokens actually, but 

1030
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,880
they were commonly used. 
But I have quite a lot of finds.

1031
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,560
But the ones I've talked about, 
I think are the ones that are 

1032
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:01,640
most exciting. 
Or there's one last thing I can 

1033
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,000
show you actually, if you don't 
mind. 

1034
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,600
No, of course not. 
Actually, it's actually visual, 

1035
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,880
which is annoying. 
But when we talked last time, we

1036
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,560
were talking about clay pipes 
and how we came to England in 

1037
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,880
the 1580s. 
And this is a period, The 1600 

1038
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:21,320
is when tobacco is spreading and
clay pipes are becoming more and

1039
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,640
more popular. 
People are smoking the whole 

1040
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:25,080
time. 
I was thinking what a good story

1041
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,240
it would have been for me if the
great fire started with a 

1042
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:30,280
dropped clay pipe rather than a 
bakery. 

1043
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,360
Would have been such a good 
narrative when you're talking 

1044
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,040
about clay pipes. 
But that isn't what happened. 

1045
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,600
But this I have with me a little
tiny clay pipe that I just 

1046
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,480
picked up the other day. 
Now it's so tiny. 

1047
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:43,600
That would have been made around
and 1610, I think. 

1048
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,960
I don't know how big that is. 
It's about a third of the size 

1049
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,240
of the bigger ones in the Jordan
period. 

1050
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:51,840
And this is because, as we 
talked about before, tobacco is 

1051
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,880
really expensive at this time. 
What I hadn't realized is I 

1052
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,600
thought that the price of 
tobacco came down only because 

1053
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,800
of the slaves. 
But actually before the slaves 

1054
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,520
in the 1600s, there were a lot 
of indentured servants. 

1055
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,880
So there are a lot of people 
going out from England 

1056
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,960
voluntarily with this weird 
contract where they basically 

1057
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,800
worked out servitude for a 
certain number of years. 

1058
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,440
They were given passage and then
they were and free and those 

1059
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,520
were the people that were 
providing the tobacco before the

1060
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,400
slaves were introduced. 
But anyway, with me, that little

1061
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,400
tiny clay pipe, which is 
evidence of just as people were 

1062
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,120
beginning to smoke on the 
streets of London, they had 

1063
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,640
little weeny clay pipes. 
This is when tobacco was still a

1064
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,440
novelty. 
And you do find very many 17th 

1065
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,280
century clay pipes on the 
foreshore. 

1066
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,320
Just the other day there was a 
very low tide and I think I 

1067
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,760
picked up just in an hour about 
fifteen 17th century clay pipes.

1068
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,320
So so they really were 
everywhere. 

1069
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,200
People were smoking them. 
So when you think about them in 

1070
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,160
the 17th century, you also have 
to think about them smoking. 

1071
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,400
Yes, Yeah, we forget that, don't
we? 

1072
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,760
Yeah. 
So if anybody wants to listen to

1073
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:02,880
the earlier episode that Anna 
kindly did, it is episode #112, 

1074
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:05,600
and I will put a link to that in
the show notes as well. 

1075
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,120
And you will learn plenty more 
about clay pipes. 

1076
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:14,680
But also you'll get to know why 
Anna has so many pins in her 

1077
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,800
house. 
You know, because I'm a little 

1078
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:22,680
bit obsessive, so that's why I 
have so many as opposed to why 

1079
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:26,120
they're on the foreshore, yeah. 
I was I. 

1080
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,400
Was guilty, I think. 
Who am I? 

1081
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,520
Who have I become? 
Why am IA middle-aged woman 

1082
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,920
picking pimps out of mud? 
There we go. 

1083
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,600
Often you get that sort of 
existential doubt on the 

1084
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,520
foreshore. 
What am I doing here? 

1085
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,960
Why am I here? 
And yet I come back because I 

1086
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,080
love it. 
I think all mud logs come back 

1087
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,120
because they love it. 
And I think it's absolutely 

1088
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,040
fascinating how all those things
that you've just highlighted 

1089
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,720
today, the artefacts themselves,
but also then the connection to 

1090
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,440
the stories of the people that 
would have used them and would 

1091
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,000
have been there every day kind 
of thing. 

1092
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,160
It highlights to us how life 
would have been so similar, and 

1093
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,440
also how different as well, with
certain aspects as well, and how

1094
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,840
much even over the centuries, 
humans really, we haven't 

1095
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,600
changed that much. 
That is absolutely true. 

1096
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,560
Very true indeed. 
I'm so glad that through mud 

1097
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:21,960
locking I've been able to regain
a sense of people's humanity in 

1098
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,360
the past. 
Because before I mud locked, I 

1099
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:30,040
the past just seemed rigid and 
black and white, not filled with

1100
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,480
real people, not people with 
hearts or feelings, just stiff 

1101
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:38,280
figures moving around a page. 
And these everyday items just to

1102
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,920
have repeopled my imagination 
and repeopled the past for me. 

1103
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,640
And actually I think as more 
people learn about mud locking 

1104
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,760
and hear these sort of stories, 
I think it has. 

1105
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,120
I think it captures people 
imagine imagination for that 

1106
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:50,680
very reason. 
I think it's helped lots of 

1107
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,440
people understand, gosh, these 
people were pinned together, 

1108
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,800
they were smoking pipes, they 
were drinking out of these jugs.

1109
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,240
Helps with your imagination. 
It makes you really look closely

1110
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,840
actually at historical paintings
now, which I never used to do, 

1111
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,160
but when I go to galleries now, 
always peering and I think, oh, 

1112
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,200
there's a pipe and there's an 
aglet. 

1113
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,560
And look over there, she's got a
choral bead like I've got at 

1114
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,080
home. 
So yeah, that's really 

1115
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,480
gratifying too. 
Makes it all very much more 

1116
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,200
real, doesn't it? 
Brilliant. 

1117
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,680
Anna, thank you so much. 
That has been amazing. 

1118
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,160
Thank you. 
I've really enjoyed it. 

1119
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,240
Thank you for giving me the 
opportunity to relearn about my 

1120
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:29,880
own objects. 
And if anybody wants to follow 

1121
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,200
Anna on Twitter, for example, 
then I'll put all the details in

1122
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,640
the show notes as well so you 
can follow and you can learn as 

1123
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,720
Anna does as well while she's 
woodlocking. 

1124
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,480
That's all for now. 
Don't forget you can hear Anna's

1125
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:45,000
previous episode about 
woodlocking finds from George 

1126
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:50,000
and London episode 112. 
Until next time.