Lights, camera, action. OK take 2.
Welcome to Comfort Zone, a podcast all about pushing your
host well outside of their comfort zone.
I'm Christopher Lawley and each week I am joined by two
incredible Co hosts. As always, I am joined by Matt
Burchler. Matt, how are you doing?
I'm doing well, I'm drinking Doctor Pepper today and I'm
introducing Echo into the audio track, so hopefully it's no
longer happening, but I was doing a great job of creating
Echo a second ago. Oh, I think it's back by.
The way I don't know, I well, let's just hope it's not in the
recording and it's something weird with the Riverside side.
And if it is, I get to deal with a fun edit this week.
I I, I have no idea what's going on.
So we're also joined by Neilion. Neil Leon, how are you?
Is there any echo where you are? I don't think so.
My I think my my room last week was sounding very echoey but now
it's got more stuff in so. Yep, adding stuff definitely
helps with the echo that that actually could be.
The thing is that it could be bouncing off your walls re
hitting your mic and that's why no we muted Matt.
It doesn't matter anyways. Our our doesn't matter because
our listeners don't care about that.
What they care about is some tiny topics.
I have one for you guys. I got my WWDC invite.
I will be boots on the ground at WWDC.
This will be my 5th dub. Dub as the kids say.
As do the kids talk about dub dub they.
Talk about dub dub. They do I guess.
Maybe. That they're, they're all
excited for the AI and, and stuff.
I think I don't know I, I'm, I'm fully expecting this to be a big
AI year and I'm not expecting, you know, like iPad OS 26 again,
so. You can tell as well because
they announced the accessibility stuff this week.
I'll be recording and it's full of AI talk, even though like I'm
not sure half of it is really AI because it feels like some of it
is iteration on some of the stuff that's been done before
and that's enhanced. So I don't know.
What you what you have to understand is these companies
are talking to investors and that's basically it.
And they want to hear AI. You should see my inbox.
And like every, everyone has changed their company name to
have AI at the end of it. And like, I literally get
pictures from companies that have nothing to do with software
and they're like, Oh yeah, and we have AI now.
And I'm like, wait, what? Like I was in.
I I can't, I can't actually talk about it yet, but I'll talk
about it on the show when it comes up.
But I was in a thing and there was a thing that was announced
that has dedicated on device AI model and you're just like what?
No, no, no it doesn't. No, it does not.
But very. Nebulous.
I know I was probably even more than what I am allowed to say,
but whatever. I don't care.
But yeah, I'll be at WWDC this year.
I believe John and Federico will be there.
So it's fun hanging out with them.
I I'm excited. This is my fifth one, so I, I
wasn't actually sure I was going to be able to go this year
because of Riley, but we got that all squared away and I can
go. So I'm excited.
I wish you guys were coming. Well, I mean this is like my
20th WWDC, but I will be doing it remotely boots in the Midwest
as I always do. You get invited to stay home.
That's that. That's your invite.
That's true. That's true.
It will be an easier week for me.
Just just so people know if even if I get invited, I can't cross
the US border. So there you go.
Look. I was just trying to stay in a
positive everything's OK mindset, you know, like we
don't, we don't need to go and all that.
You know, I'm thinking we live in a utopia right now.
Make it happen in Paris or something, I don't know.
They used to be in Mac Expo in Paris.
There you go. Yeah, that would be cool.
Bring that back. I think the big thing is getting
the the amount of Apple employees that do something at
WWDCI. Think getting them outside of
the Cupertino area that's the problem.
Nah, trillion dollar company, they can make it happen.
Probably. All right, we got something else
in here, and judging by what it is, I'm guessing it's from Neon.
Yes, as we're recording this broke like an hour ago from.
So so by the time you're listening to this, it broke like
a week and an hour. Ago in a few days, but it's like
it's not massively urgent. It's like important piece of
news that I thought I would bring up Mac Generation.
So the French website that I mentioned before for which
Nicola Ferno writes, he's an avid listener of Comfort Zone
and he's been in a feedback form a few times.
We roasted him his home screen. Anyway, yeah, he wrote this
article revealing that. So end to end encryption for RCS
has rolled out in iOS 26.5 and like in bunch of places in the
world actually, but one is missing on the map and that's
France. Like all the neighboring
countries in Europe all have end end to end encryption with RCS
and not France, which seemed weird.
So like Mac generation Nicola and Mac generation has asked
around. He called a few of the carriers
in France to, like, investigate what is going on.
And it turns out the French government is blocking it.
Like, not not blocking it, but they're like, yeah, it'd be best
if you wait on this, that they're telling the carriers
just you should not roll this out right now because we're
doing counterterrorism, which is code for we.
We want to be able to keep reading people's text
conversations. And there's this weird
situation, like it's a political situation on Orleans.
There are four big carriers in France and one of them is
selling out like the they're trying to get bought by the
other three. And because like it's kind of
it's a high level thing because there will only be 3 big
carriers in France when that happens.
So there's like a regulation that comes into play, like is it
a monopoly if that happens? Is there a monopolistic
situation? So basically there are tons of
negotiations currently happening behind the scenes between the
government and those carriers. So the government is like
asking, it'd be, it'd be good if you wait on rolling out the end
to end encryption on RCS. And the carriers are like, sure,
let's not bother the government right now because we want them
to agree with our plan to buy the, the, the the one of the
carrier. So so basically the Stephen
Colbert situation. RIP to the real 1.
I, I I don't remember that context.
Because Paramount. It's literally the same thing.
Paramount is trying to buy Warner Brothers and basically
the president wanted Stephen Colbert off the air so they
cancelled his show so that way they could buy it.
Yeah. So right now there's is like the
situation is frozen, like carriers are waiting, government
is waiting. And yeah, no end to end
encryption for RCS in France right now, even though
everything's ready on Apple's end, everything's ready on the
carriers. And like you can, if you look at
the RCS profile that's bundled in iOS, everything's there for
the French carriers. So they just have to turn, turn
the switch to enable it. And they're not doing it because
of this. Very interesting.
Yeah. The governments, they like to
Snoop. And not and not the Snoop Doggy
Dog way. I don't know.
That wasn't funny. That was right.
That wasn't funny at all. I am so tired, guys.
I haven't had a full night's sleep since we got Riley and I
am exhausted. It's OK because you know why?
It's OK because I have a surprise tiny topic.
Oh. Yes, it's the browser podcast,
baby. Yeah, you'll handle that.
Yes, Vivaldi announced version 8 point O this week with a big
redesign. Which seems weird because when
you update to 8.0 everything's looks exactly the same.
There's no redesign inside. But this is mostly seen for new
users for like when you install, when you do a French install, a
French, a fresh install on the onboarding, everything looks
new. There's a new default theme,
There's a new way to make your, to style your themes in Vivaldi,
which looks very sleek. I, I like it.
And but yeah, if you already have configured the custom theme
when you upgrade, you will not see a difference.
They are preserving everything that used to be there, which is
good because the users of Vivaldi, they are users who have
customized heavily the UI and you do not want to break that
over every design. Well, they've wasted half their
life just going through the settings page, you know?
Now they're looking for the, the, the, Oh my God, my brain is
broken. My brain.
Is don't save him. My Indiana Jones and Last
Crusade. The Last Crusade.
What was the thing? The Holy, The Holy Grail.
They were looking for the Holy Grail now.
Oh my God, my brain is broken. You've fully.
Lost Chris at this point. He's talking about the Bible or
something. No talk about Indiana Jones, OK
Oh my brain. So anyway, so for people who
thought Vivaldi looks ugly or something like you're not you,
you don't like the looks of it, the new default theme looks very
different. I will give them that.
It's a, it's a, it's a new fresh look and maybe you want to give
that a try. And now I'm done.
There's no surprise, OK, beyond that.
OK. All right.
Well, that was the browser podcast.
Interesting. OK, All right, so I I have a
topic for you guys this week and I want to talk about codecs and
computer use. I'm I'm sorry, Neil Leon, we are
going to discuss AI. I'm.
Sorry, so like 81 MP? Four, yes.
Yep. That's that's what codecs.
Yep, Yep. That's what we're going to be
discussing. Absolutely.
Let's get nerdy. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, no, codecs is the open AI ChatGPT.
Well, originally it was their coding platform.
It was their answer to Claude code and but it's kind of
evolved. So it's become its own dedicated
app on Mac OS now and it has its own tab in the iOS app now in
the ChatGPT iOS app and it's become kind of its own thing.
It's kind of become a productivity super app.
And I'm, I'm curious, have you have either of you use the
dedicated codecs app? No.
I have used it to try to code and it did not click with me so
I went back to what works for me.
OK. All right.
And is that still cloud code? Cloud code in the terminal like
a real sego. Nice.
No, I I get it. Look, I, I've been using Cloud
Code for a while now, but codecs has evolved beyond just being a
coding platform. And this is really clicking with
me. So a little bit of history.
We all know the app workflow, which became Shortcuts workflow
was the original automation platform on iOS.
Apple bought it, it became Shortcuts.
And it's the buggy mess that we know today.
The the original workflow team went to work at Apple.
They left a couple of years ago and they went off to do their
own thing and they made an app, Sky, which never got a public
release, but Federico wrote about it on Mac Stories and like
it. It was really interesting what
they were doing with it. Basically the idea was you would
have basically get natural language automation.
You would just type a sentence and it would go do a thing on
your Mac. Well, Open AI bought it and
integrated it into Codex and it is now a feature called Computer
Use. And this is where codecs gets
really interesting. So codecs, like I said, is no
longer just a coding platform. It is a productivity platform.
There's plug insurance for Google Sheets and Docs and
Chrome and Notion and Jira and all those like big businessy boy
apps that Matt uses. Computer use is a little
different. It is a plug in, but it allows
you to do any it'll allows codecs to control anything and
everything on your computer. Now, by the time this episode is
out, my video on this will be out because it's going to be out
tomorrow and today's Friday. But this doesn't come out till
the following Thursday schedules.
You know that's that's the whole thing.
So I will have a video for you that you can go watch, but
there's also Open AI put out a video with Ari, the original
creator of Workflow, demoing this and it's really cool.
So basically the way it works is say you wanted to go through
your e-mail, go through and find all the receipts that were in
your e-mail and then update your expense tracking spreadsheet.
You would literally type go through at the AT symbol like an
e-mail at mail and find all my receipts.
I need you to go in and update my expense tracker in whatever
spreadsheet document you're using.
For my example, I would go at numbers.
Numbers does not have a Codex plug in.
There is no plug in for mail or numbers, but I would type it.
I would type at it would search for all the apps that are on my
Mac, find that app that you know, you just natural language
type it out, find it in the list, select it and it would go
through find all the receipts that have come in for you know,
stuff I bought. Then update my expense tracker
automatically and it works fantastic.
I've been using this for so many different things and it is
amazing. It is pure natural language
automation without needing to know ifs you know like it.
What if statements do. You don't need to know terminal
commands. You don't need to know what apps
need CLI. You don't need to know Python or
any of this stuff. It is pure natural language
automation and it is very, very interesting.
I've used it for running our audio through Hush because what
you can do is you can use it from your phone so you can link
the ChatGPT app on your phone to your Mac.
And I literally had the files download and then I told it to
you, hey, look for this zip file.
So it's always timeline dot zip from from Riverside is is our
audio files. Unzip the file, take the audio
files that are in that folder that you unzipped.
Run them through the app Hush. Set the output in Hush to my
under score temp folder. Do not change any presets in
Hush. And it did it perfect.
By the time I got back to my Mac, all of those files were ran
and they were there. It like they were done.
They ran through Hush, they were cleaned up, they were there.
Sorry my brain is broken right now.
I really hope this is all making sense.
That makes sense, So. I I am incredibly impressed with
how this is working and like the the team behind computer use.
I think this is the next step in automation for your computer and
they have timed automation so you can set things up to run at
specific times. This is really making me want a
Mac mini or a Mac studio like I am.
I am like I keep checking out like I'm like, I could just buy
one, but like the M5 ones aren't out like like maybe, but are the
M5 ones going to be so much more expensive?
I am I I've multiple times this week had a Mac mini in my cart
ready to go and I was like maybe just wait.
And are they back in stock? I think the one that I wanted
was in stock, but I don't remember.
But I, I think the one I but I've been like looking at like
the price and I'm like, I don't because I want like the M4 pro
and like, yeah, I don't, I don't want the base M4 and I want some
extra RAM and I need some extra storage.
I wonder. So I'm looking at the video
video from Open AI that you linked.
It looks quite different from white when when Federico showed
off with Sky it looks quite different.
It feels like Sky. I wanted to be some like way
more contextual than this. Yes, I would agree absolutely.
And Sky felt more like a spotlight replacement, whereas
this is a chat bot. Like I'm just going to tell you
to go do something and it goes do it and goes and does it.
Now I haven't got to the best part of this.
OK. So when you tell it to go do
something, it basically creates another cursor on your Mac to go
do it, but it doesn't hijack your computer, unlike other
tools. It does this completely in the
background. So that male example I I gave
earlier of like, hey, go through my mail, find all the receipts,
update my expense tracking spreadsheet, that all happens in
the background. I can still be editing a video
or working on photos or writing a script or whatever while
that's happening in the background that it doesn't take
over my computer in any way whatsoever.
It it all happens in the background.
That's the killer feature of this.
Yeah, that is nice. I, I remember when I'm like was
last year playing with all these AI browsers that browse for you.
They all took over the browser and so you couldn't do anything
and all you had to do was watch it use your browser slowly and
often poorly. So it would would be nice not to
like have it take over your mouse cursor and stuff.
Are you are there other things you're doing with it?
The Hush example is interesting. I the e-mail example is the
example. I always hear about these
automation tools and I do them once and I never do them again.
So I'm curious if there's like other things that are clicking
for you with this? Yeah, so there's a few other
things that I, I am doing as well.
So one of the other things is it works great with Obsidian
because Obsidian is file and folder and stuff like that.
So I went and I, I got some, I got to be kind of vague about
this part. I got some PDF documents this
week for some products. Not nothing Apple related.
If you were listening and you're like Apple's about ready to
release something new. This is not Apple related
whatsoever. Do not.
This is not Apple related. It's it's from Microsoft.
Yes, it's from Microsoft. It's they're bringing the
Surface tablets back and I, I, you can only get real work done
on the Surface tablet. So that's, that's what this is.
So I got some PDF documents and they are full of fluff and one
thing I I and like I want to be able to go through these PDF.
I want to be able to get the information out of these PDF
documents. But one I don't want them to be
in PDF form and I don't want all this fluff.
So I point it. So I gave them the codex.
I said hey, summarize these pull out all the key points, turn
them into a markdown file and then add them to my research
folder in AT Obsidian. Obsidian does not have a plug
in. It does have a command line
interface, so it can use all that stuff, but it just did that
in the background and went through these fairly hefty PDF
documents, found all the key points and created a pretty big
Obsidian document for me to go through.
And now I have all the key points from that document.
And I even verified it like because this is fairly new.
So I did verify it and was like, yeah, you pulled all the
important key points and it took out all the fluff.
There was none of this like patting ourselves on the back.
We did this amazing thing, crap that I was all over this PDF
document. So it did a really great job
with that. Another example, and this is
another male one, but I get so much spam, but a lot of the spam
and like junk e-mail is very similar.
So I created a timed automation to go through and look for all
these emails that are fairly similar and just archive them
right away. And it's literally cleaning up
my inbox every morning and it's like cutting it down by half
like it is, it is so helpful like that is is killer.
Another another example and this one, this one's pretty, this
one's kind of demory, but I have found it to be really useful as
I created a timed automation and it goes through my To Do List
and fantastic how everyday creates a summary and texts it
to me and then marks that message in messages as unread.
So when I wake up, I have it because if you text yourself in
messages in the Mac messages app, it's going to immediately
mark it as read. So this will actually go in and
mark it as unread. So that's kind of cool.
And again, this is all using the gooey not like to do it and
fantastic. Hell, do not hook into codex
whatsoever. This is using the gooey of the
Mac and this it's kind of cool. Like I was like, OK, yeah, this
it's very demo E, but I also thought like, hey, if you are
somebody that's like a big business boy bachelor and you
have a bunch of different apps with a bunch of different stuff
all over the place, you could have this go through and be
like, OK, my team is working on this.
I have this on my schedule. I have this on my task list.
This was the summary of these meeting notes.
Like I, we have a follow up meeting to this meeting.
Here's a summary of those meeting notes because you can
have it go out and look and be like, hey, do I have any
meetings on my calendar? Oh, were there any meetings
related to this in the past month?
Go and find my notes for this and send me a summary of those
notes. Like that's the kind of thing it
can do. And again, it all happens in the
background and that's the killer part.
If this was hijacking your computer, this, I do not think
this would be useful whatsoever. But the fact that this is
happening in the background while you can still use your
computer is really nice. Say gooey again.
Gooey, did I say it? Weird?
I'm a little stuffed up today. I don't know if you could tell.
Gooey, gooey, gooey. It is a funny word.
I it is I, you know, I grew up in a different generation and I
only saw a GUI written out. I liked forums for many years
and so I in my head I had always been saying GUI and I had no
idea people were saying GUI all this time.
Same. I said GUI but yeah.
I I always heard gooey, I don't know why.
Gooey. I don't know.
But anyway, so that's, that's kind of codex.
Do you guys have any questions on it?
I, I think it's a very fascinating Oh, it you can use
it with the free tier of ChatGPT.
You just you have to download the dedicated codecs app.
It's not in the Mac ChatGPT app. It's in the Mac OS codecs app.
So you have to download that and then you go into the plug
insurance and install computer use.
But it is free to use. But you, if you do anything
heavy with it, you will blow through your free usage tokens
pretty quickly. I'm on the $20.00 a month plan
and I haven't hit that limit yet.
So it's, it's been fine with that.
So I, I've been pretty happy with it and I, I think it's,
it's a pretty interesting tool to play with.
That was exactly my question is a lot of times these features
are in the like $200 a month plan and that's a important
detail to mention. It is and honestly, if this was
just in the $200 a month plan, I, I wouldn't even bring it up.
But the fact that this is in the free plan and the $20.00 a month
plan, and I think because they chat GB or open AI has like an
$8 a month plan. So I'm guessing it's in that as
well. Because if it's in the free plan
and it's in the 20, I'm guessing it's in that $8 plan.
But I don't, I just went with the, the, the, whatever the I, I
can't keep track of the name. I think it's the plus.
I think it's chat. GPT plus is the 20.
Dollar yeah OK, all right, that's what I thought it but
yeah so anyways, I have been really liking this and I've been
liking its results. I also like with ChatGPT, you
can tweak its personality so it doesn't be overly friendly and
like you can just strip it down to like kind of the bare bones
because I don't I don't I don't I don't need an AI to be my
friend. I, I got you 2.
Like I don't need an AII got you 2.
But yeah, so I don't know. It's, it's even if you're kind
of like, I'm not sure about this AI stuff, I would, I would play
with this because I think it's fascinating natural language
automation. And I'm really hoping Apple has
something like this at WWDC at the very least, the ability to
create shortcuts like this. You know, Federico just released
his, his, his shortcuts generator thing that he's been
working on a really long time. We should put a link to that in
the show notes that Matt Matt, that's you shortcuts.
Playground. Shortcuts playground.
Thank you. I can't, I was my brain is not
functioning today, guys. Oh my gosh, it is so bad.
But anyways, I'm hoping Apple has something like that at WWDC.
But yeah, so that's codecs and computer use.
Like I said, free to try. So just go check it out.
It's I think it's pretty interesting.
Yeah, my only opinion on this is it freaks me out so I.
OK so try this ever. I will say they do a really good
job with permissions. It will not interact with any
app without asking your permission.
There is an always allow option that you can check that I've
checked for my timed automations, but it won't just
go and go rogue and start doing stuff.
And I've never had it. Like I've been having it send
messages through the messages app and it's never once messed
up. So I've I've been impressed.
I like and I am, I, I'm I, I was an AI skeptic for a very long
time and I'm impressed. Fix me out.
I've I've used my human hands to create a reminder for four weeks
from now and I'm going to I'm looking for an update.
I'm curious if you're still using it, if you still like it,
if you found new things, because I would love to see how it works
in the long run. I and like I said, I will have a
video out. So today's Friday, it'll be out
tomorrow, Saturday. But by the time the audience is
listening this, it's been out for almost a week.
So they'll be there will be a video out.
But I thought it this would be an interesting discussion to
have with the two of you because I feel like the three of us are
on on a nice range of the AI spectrum.
Oh no, this implies that am I the AI sicko who just love?
How many apps have you made so far?
None of them are AI apps though. They're just like apps for
normal folks. Yeah, but what did you use to
make them? I think that's different.
I mean, I guess I also use the AI then.
OK, so maybe we're not as far apart as I thought because I
have some internal tools as well.
So yeah. And listen, I surprisingly in
everyday life, I, because I started doing this ironically
and it's starting to get unironic, but I look up things
in ChatGPT all the time in front of my friends just to like annoy
them because most of my friends are like radical leftists and
they are worse than me on AI. And I just, I, I when, when we
talk about things, I just pick up ChatGPT just to annoy them.
It's starting to become like, it started as an ironic thing and I
do it all the time. But it's funny.
I still find it funny. ChatGPT search is actually
really good, I mean. You can't find.
Sorry, you can't find. You can't find anything with
Google. It's.
Yeah, no, Google is. Google has gotten really bad.
It's hey, have you guys heard Caggy?
Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I couldn't help myself.
If you don't know, it's like everybody on Mastodon is like
discovering Caggy this week. Yeah.
I have beef with Caggy. Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I
know. Yeah, don't use Caggy.
Nice. Do what you want.
OK. All right.
I have a Caggy T-shirt. Yeah, people have Caggy
plushies. I don't know.
We are we are a spectrum on Kaggy.
Yeah, some people have arc stickers still on their laptops.
I don't know if those like. I would I would put an ARC
sticker on my laptop. Absolutely.
If you have an ARC sticker, reach out.
I will put that on my. Laptop having a Netscape sticker
I guess. If you have a Netscape sticker
reach out I I will send you some money.
Yes. Oh my God, I bet you I could
order one from. Oh, by the way, guys, we when we
talked about the Newton last week, right?
We Tim asked us about it. Yeah.
Yes, and so I was in the I was on the Cult of Mack podcast this
week and Griffin from Cult of Mack, he told me see, so he
listened to our show and he told me I've got a Newton right here
and and I was like, maybe maybe should come on, talk about the
Newton. We should do something about it
because I I see on masterdone that also Tim told you that he
has a Newton. So like maybe you can we can
arrange a Newton focus group on the show or something.
But anyway, so we kind of provoked our audience send us
Newtons and people are actually like, here's my Newton.
I can talk about the Newton. Yeah, yeah, attempt link to like
there's like a Wi-Fi chip you can get in it and.
Yeah. Oh, boy.
It just seems like if I had nostalgia for that, I think I'd
be all over it. But I just.
I missed that whole era. I'm too young.
Yeah. I was a baby.
Yeah. I look if if people want to come
on and talk about it, they're more than welcome to, but are
they careful? With what you say, Chris?
Yeah, OK. No, you're not welcome.
Do not come on. By the way, I found a Netscape
sticker. I'm ordering it now.
Oh wow, OK. Do you have nostalgia for
Netscape? Yes, because I use Netscape.
OK, for me, it's a legend, you know?
It's it's a real thing. It's a real thing.
It was. Oh boy, my first browser was an
E world. But anyway, yeah.
Yeah, now I, I, I had a. Yep, I had to do I had to do
that back in the day. Yeah.
Now, now have you guys ever heard of Red Bubble?
It's a like a sticker website. Yeah, they do T-shirts as well.
T-shirt points. They have a lot of really good
stuff on here. I'm just like adding a bunch of
stuff to my cart right now. Is it one of?
Those, I think it's one of those sites where you can easily get
started if you're an artist and just really they print
everything for you and you just upload your designs.
Oh OK, well hopefully they're not problematic because I'm
giving them like 20. Bucks no idea, so OK.
Don't worry about it. Yeah, no, dude, Oh my gosh, that
that was the first place I ever bought stickers and I regret
ever giving them money. Screw sticker mule.
Anyways, we should probably move on.
How did we started with codecs and ended that stickers?
I'm not not not sure what happened there.
You know, podcasts just need the flow, talk about whatever you're
going to talk about. This is going to be one of those
4 hour podcasts where we just we just no.
It can't be. I got, I got Mandalorian Grogu
tickets. It can't be 4 hours.
Oh. OK, OK, well, we can move on to
my topic, which is more of a more of an idea, OK.
So I love when we have one of these.
I I, I don't really know how to start this, but I, I kind of
feel like social media tech. So this is a tech thing has made
us talk like psychopaths and I kind of I just the, the more I
like think about it, the more I, I kind of believe this.
This all kicked off a few weeks ago whenever the new Fitbit was
announced. The new Fitbit like banned it
like goes after the the oh boy, whoop, whoop.
Thank you. And and I don't I don't have the
link to it anymore, but I saw someone post they were just some
I had some influencer I'd never heard of.
But like some of the people I follow, they're on threads.
Some of the people I follow on threads follow them.
So anyway, they're clearly trying to like build some sort
of audience and be influencer like.
Let me, let me just come in with the craziest hot takes on
threads and like I I don't even need to believe them.
I just need to write the craziest shit possible and then
I'll get a following. That's threads for you.
Maybe, but like the the the way this this post was worded, it
was like it's it said it, it started out.
I feel sorry for anyone who's bought a whoop Fitbit just
killed what you love. Like that was like, and I was
like, OK, that's a psychotic thing to say.
If you said that in the real world, you would like, if you
walked into the Best Buy to like buy your Fitbit and you were
like, I feel sorry for the losers who bought the whoop.
This is cheaper and better. And no, I haven't used it, so I
don't actually know any of this, but it's definitely going to
kill the whoop. It was just it.
It wasn't like the worst thing. People say worse things on
social media. But like, and we've established
Whoop as a cult, so if you were to say something like that in
person, you'd get punched in the face or.
Oh my God. Stabbed or maybe given Kool-aid,
I don't know. Chris, you're not helping my
point here. But like, it's, it's just, it's
just a, it's a, it's a quiet. It's just the sort of thing that
like social media makes you say, you can't just say like, oh,
Google released this new Fitbit that looks kind of cool.
Hopefully it lives up to what seems like it could be pretty
decent. That's not going to get any
clicks. No one's excited about that.
No one's hitting the like button for that.
It's it's I'm going to be mean to people because they bought a
thing that there might be a better thing now.
And I feel bad for them because they bought this four years ago
and this didn't exist. But they should have known in
four years this was there was going to be a better thing out.
Another thing that I see a lot is people who are like X just
killed Y not like X the social media platform, but like this
thing just killed this like this is gone.
And it's kind of the same thing of like this.
They haven't even used the thing yet.
This was another post I saw recently where Datadog has like
some sort of tool they're working on that will like it's,
it's, it helps you monitor like software and they're building
some platform that will let you like as it notices recurring
errors come up. It will generate tasks and code
those tasks and can like set submit them to review and all
that. And someone was like Datadog
just killed Claude code in Codex.
Yeah. OK, did it.
I don't know. And the other one and this one
really gets me. This 10.
This one gets me is when it's it's always the same.
It is always the notes app icon, Apple notes a greater than
symbol. And then it's either Notion or
Obsidian and it's like, or it's the, the version of that charge
with like the the line graph that's like like 0 IQ, medium
IQ, high IQ. And it's like if you have 0 IQ,
you use Apple Notes. If you, if you have a medium IQ,
you use Notion because you think you're being fancy.
And then once you are really smart, you're using Apple Notes
because Apple Notes is the GOAT because you didn't actually need
all that automation. You didn't need all that
complication. So yeah, I think that one is
just generally the, I have figured it out.
You don't need all that complexity.
Or here's a 17 post thread on how you could optimize using
something. And the thing about it I don't
like is that people go through eras.
I feel like like sometimes you need complexity, sometimes you
want simplicity and you're going to go back and forth.
It's fine. It's OK.
I if I find no, my iPhone is recording this video so I can't
hold up the camera. If you look at my home screen, I
don't have things on there at the moment.
The app thing, you don't have anything on your home screen.
It's just blank. I don't have things.
Yeah, the screen's broken. That's why it's my camera now.
I don't use I, I'm not using things at the moment.
I'm actually using reminders for the reminders that I have.
Because Matt's finally high IQ or no IQ, What?
Where are we on that ground? One or the other, but like right
now, I don't need the things that things did for me.
That's not important to me. Reminders is totally sufficient
and the fact that it can do those like urgent alerts that
like take over the screen like it's an alarm going off is
actually very nice. You're you're one step closer to
my way of. Maybe I'll be there one day.
Maybe I'll just be like whatever.
If it, if I can't keep it in my head or on a sticky note, then
it's, it's not getting done. Oh my God, you know, you go
through phases. You have a second brain and then
you're like, why did I have that second brain?
That was so stupid. You have these like crazy
automations set up and then you're like, I don't need those
crazy automations. You sign up for a very expensive
app that some people call a cult because it really helps you with
e-mail. And then you kind of get an
e-mail under control and you don't need any more.
Like people go through phases and I, I am very annoyed when it
there's like this one-size-fits-all or like
you're. You have achieved enlightenment
once you do what I do at this exact moment, because in six
months I'll do things something different.
So anyway, I think there's just, I think social media has like
made us talk like influencers all the time about everything
and it's made us angry in a way that's just very upsetting.
Because everything has to scale now.
That's the thing with the way why everyone talks this way is
everything has to scale. I need to be bigger and bigger
so I can get bigger and bigger ad deals.
And it's annoying and frustrating.
And I, I am making changes to my business because I am sick of
that stuff. I am sick of the, I need to
constantly scale. I am making some changes because
I, I, I have been seeing what you're talking about that and
it's driving me nuts as well. And it's I, I just can't.
I can't. I don't want to be a part of it.
Yeah, and all of these, all these posts I'm quoting are
actually Chris Lawley. Actually, it's pretty
incredible. Actually, I wouldn't.
I wouldn't doubt it. Yeah, so it's just it's a thing.
Also on a related note, I saw Christopher Nolan did an
interview, I think with 60 minutes this past week where
he's they talked to him about tech and they're like, you don't
have a smartphone. And he's like, no, I don't use a
smartphone. I have a flip phone.
They're like, you don't do e-mail and he's like, no, I
don't do e-mail. And you know, good for him.
What what a life that must be. But the the post.
That is my God. But the post that I I saw was
like, now ask his assistants if they use e-mail.
Yeah, Oh yeah, 100%. But I.
I do think it is, it is interesting when you see like
these people, like I find in my line of work, when someone's an
executive and like a really high up in a company, they're,
they're more likely to just bring like their iPad around or
like they're doing everything from their phone and or they had
just have like a paper notebook in front of them.
And it's like, Oh, that's how that's how you do it.
And it's like, no, no, no, you have assistance.
You have a whole team behind you that does things for you.
And it's just a, it's a very different life depending on
where you are. So.
Yeah, there's a reason why I have a bajillion automations
that fire off all the time because those are my assistance
like that. That's, that's that's it.
I instead of, instead of hiring people because I, I, I can't
afford to hire somebody and give them proper salary and health
insurance and all that stuff, I programmed a bunch of
automations and that's my assistants.
And that's why I can carry around an iPad.
Yeah, so anyway, and I feel like I this is the same at every
social network. It was like this when I was on
Twitter. It's definitely like this on
Threads. Threads is 9, but it is really
like the most vapid stuff. I feel like Threads is kind of
like Facebook where there's stuff there and there's
apparently hundreds of millions of people using it, but like, it
never escapes containment. It's never like culturally
relevant. It's all just vapid junk.
And yeah, so anyway. The the I only have two reasons
for having threads still installed is because that is
where a majority of my YouTube friends are.
So it's nice to just kind of see what's going on with them.
And that's where Formula One news is are a lot of Formula One
news at least Formula One news gets reposted there.
So that's kind of the only reason I, I rarely, rarely,
rarely post there because I don't, I don't really want to be
a part of all that, but I'm just like, yeah, there's, there's
just enough there that I'd like to see, but.
Threads really seems awful. I I don't have an account
anymore and yeah, every time I have to click a link on there it
it seems atrocious. Like the comments and everything
are unhinged. It feels like it's a second X,
like it feels like this some kind of vibe as when you open a
thread on X. Oh man, for reasons that will be
revealed later, I have opened a few more threads on X recently
and it is it is wild in the comments like it is it is Yikes
sometimes, especially on. XII don't know if this is true
or not, like this is literally just a thing I heard on the
Internet so who knows if this is true or not put take a grain of
salt. I believe whatever.
This is I I heard that X is now 75% men like like they've just
like ran women off the platform. I I heard this as well, and
again, based on what I've seen in the replies it does seem that
way. That's surprising.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, grain of salt who I I
legitimately do not know if that's true or not, but it
really wouldn't surprise me. It also wouldn't surprise me if
that number is actually like too low and it's more like 80 to
85%. I wonder if it's the same on
threads. I, you know, I'd be very curious
about that. Oh, I saw some comparison here.
I think it was better on threads if there's if, I would.
Not be surprised if men are also overrepresented on threads
compared to let's say Instagram for some for example.
Oh, I I would bet that 100%, Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Compared to Instagram, yeah, absolutely.
All right. Any anything else on this?
I mean, Christopher Nolan, he's fine.
He is. He is.
My God. I only have two complaints with
him. During his Dark Knight series,
he renamed Racial Goal to Razal Goal.
For some reason it's Racial Goal.
And he renamed the League of Assassins to League of Shadows.
For some reason it's League of Assassins.
I don't. Know.
Why he did that, I actually think that's probably more his
brother because I think his brother was the the writer on
those so. But you know, there is a better,
there is a better version of Christopher Nolan out there, and
he's called Denis Villeneuve. I mean, why choose, you know,
Denny? Is I choose I mean.
He's, he's unbelievable. He's he's on an incredible run.
He is. He is pretty great.
I'm so excited that he is directing the next James Bond
movie. Yeah, I heard that and I could
not believe it. I was like, sure.
After he finishes June 3, June 3 and.
That's true. Wow.
I'm, I'm OK, I'm really hoping they go back to like the 50s,
like Cold War era James Bond, like like we did the whole
modern James Bond with Daniel Craig.
Like, let's go back to like the gadgety 50s James Bond, Like,
let's revisit that era now because that would be really
fun. But yeah, I, I'm, I'm, I'm
pretty excited about that. I, I really want him to do a
Star Wars movie. I don't know if he would do it,
but a Star Wars movie by him? Wasting potential, maybe.
I don't. I don't think he would do well.
Really. Yeah, I think Disney would ruin
him. Yeah, see he would, he would
need he he would need like I get full creative control.
Yeah, not happening. Yeah.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Bob Iger over your shoulder. Bob Iger's gone.
We got the new guy. We got the guy that's interested
in the parks now, the guy that ran the parks.
Bob Newman What's? In it's Bob Newhart.
Bob Newhart. Yep, it's Bob.
Definitely Bob Newhart. OK, let's move on.
OK, All right. We had a challenge.
It was your challenge. Yes, so the challenge was prank
your spouse slash partner with some smart home stuff and yeah,
that's it. I I I think I did well if you.
Want me to start please? I so, you know, we just moved in
to a new house and this is like, we are not in the same city as
before we used to live in, which is a fairly large city with
plenty of public transit like tramway lines, buses all around.
Anyway, now we live in a very like a much smaller town that's
located in between major cities. Like it, it's not a rural town,
but it like it's, it's in the middle, you know.
And anyway, so there's just one very busy train line that runs
through town. It's very busy train line
because it links two big cities. And but that's just our only
public transit basically to get out of the town and go someplace
else. So I have surprised my partner
with something they still work in where, where we lived before
in the big in the bigger city. So they take the train every day
and they they need to wake up early and they come home later
than before. And they rely on the train
schedule and on knowing when trains arrive, when there are
like late trains, like when there's an incident on the line
or whatever. So surprised Neilion blew up a
train. Neilion.
So I bought a train so I surprised them with you Remember
we are mad at terminal honest I am, but I still have my
terminal. It's e-waste.
Basically it's just sitting there the.
EE Ink. The ink screen.
From the terminal, for some reason I was thinking Mac OS
terminal and I was like why are we mad at the terminal?
How do we mad at terminal? So yeah, I've not sold it like
it is just sitting there. So I just, I'm, I thought I
would just use this, put it near the entrance of our place and if
you unfold the spoiler tag in our document, you will see what
it looks like and maybe try to guess what it does.
OK. So it looks like train
schedules, are you having them run early?
Did you set it up so that like they run early and?
No, no, all accurate. All accurate.
OK, I think the prank part is just that I did this silently
like one day. It was just there.
OK. OK.
All right, OK. It wasn't a mean prank, it was
it. Wasn't OK, So basically I
misunderstood this challenge. I misunderstood as well.
I mean, it's OK to do a mean thing.
It's funnier at least. So yes, this is basically so you
know where? I don't know, you're not used to
trains. You don't even know how to get
on a train do. You why I've got a car I.
Don't need, everything I know about getting onto a train is
from jet lag. I Everything I know about trains
is from Thomas the Tank Engine. That's a stop.
Jet lag is a stop. So to get on a train, you go to
the train station. Inside the train station, you
look up at the big screens. There are two big screens
always. There's one for departures and
one for arrivals. This terminal at in our entrance
of the house is displaying the real time departure screen from
our local train station and it's showing.
So the next trains with the scheduled departure, the
destination on the right side there's a letter that's the the
platform A or B. It's the small station, so
there's just A or B. And as you can see, the 3rd and
4th and 5th and and 6th train on this photo right now are late.
They are scheduled to be late, 5 minutes late.
So there's one that will be 20 minutes late apparently.
And it's displaying beneath that the reason for why it's late.
So the incident that's currently ongoing.
So right now there's it's saying there's one train that's out of.
How did you call that? It's out of order.
It's it, it broke down, basically, yeah.
You blew it up. You.
Blew it up. I blew it up.
But the others, the, the ones who which have less late
scheduled are saying that it's just because there's busy
traffic on the train line. So there you go.
And that's, that's just it. I surprised and they were very
happy. Very, very, very happy to
explain how I did this. By the way, this was made much
more complicated than I imagined.
I had to make a Python script to screenshot a website because
where does this departure table come from?
It comes from somebody who made a website.
Yeah, I'm, I linked it in the show notes if you want to look
at it. It's called Carto Chew.
Basically this is a real time interactive live map of all the
trains currently running in France.
It's absolutely amazing. This thing is amazing.
Like you can click on any train on this map.
They are the blue triangles. You will see their current
trajectory, like the stations are coming through and you can
click on any station and see their departure schedule.
You can see the disruptions currently ongoing.
You can enable a heat map of all the late trains in France.
This is absolutely amazing. This is all done using open data
that's provided by the French like state.
So it's all free data provided by the government basically that
you can use to build things like this.
And they, yeah, obviously are local, very tiny local station
is in there. I will not link it.
I'm not going to talk to myself, but if you click on that on our
local train station, you will see the departure table and all
the schedules and everything and you can see as well the trains
coming and going from on our line.
This is an amazing website. Just just wanted to mention it
and basically my Python script. What it does is it's screenshots
that departure table from this website every 5 minutes by
spawning like a chromium instance blah blah blah.
On our Linux server at home. It screenshots that and then
serves it on a local HTTP like web server that's on the local
network and the terminal is just fetching the like the URL from
that's served from my Linux server at home which is
displaying the just the tiny screenshot of the departure
table. The script also turns it into
black and white so it's easier to control how how it will look
on the E Ink display. So it turned out to be a rabbit
hole. I thought this would take 10
minutes to set up. I spent many hours on this, but
I'm very happy I will this will stay in our home entrance
because this is actually very useful.
This is very impressive. This is very cool.
Oh man. OK, OK, this is cool.
Yeah. So yeah, not mean I I did not go
the mean route, just something fun and I surprised them or
something. OK, OK.
Well. You guys were were nice to your
spouse as well, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I went a. Slightly different route.
Yeah, I heard prank. I didn't hear.
Do something nice to for your partner.
Yeah. OK, that's fine.
OK, So what I did actually, I could have I, I this would have
actually been a nice thing for codecs to do or for maybe a
Federico shortcut playground thing would help.
I created about 20 automations in the Home app to lower the
brightness of the lights in our living room by just like 2% at a
time and. Oh, that's genius.
That's great during the evening. During the evening, yes, and so
my wife would be like and then it gets so dim so I I, I
literally gas lit my wife. It's a that's.
Great. That's fantastic.
How? How dim did it get?
It got dim enough to notice, but it was definitely a kind of a
frog in a pot situation where you don't really notice it at
the time and there's no way to like have them fade slowly.
I was really wishing I could be like at 6:00 PM, start fading it
for two hours, but you can't really do that.
So it was just a lot of like every, I forgot how many
minutes. Every like 5 minutes it would
like just tick down 2%. Just a little, just a little.
It, it, it was, it was fine. There were no like enormous
moments, but I, I did have to give it up that I was doing it.
It took forever to set up the automations.
It was. So I can't imagine.
Like, and then to be sitting there like watching like ATV
show and be like it's happening. It's working, but it's a little
like you can't even tell like it's happening.
So like I was kind of in the same position as her as like is
it is it darker? I can't really tell.
So it's fun, but I I've disabled those all because they were very
annoying. And then you blew up a train.
And then I blew. This is how you blow up a pipe,
a pipeline. This is I guess.
We are so going to be on an FBI watch list up to this episode.
Wow. So I did something kind of
similar to Matt, sort of I, I built an automation so that when
you would turn on a light, a specific light that I knew
Danielle would turn on that it would like wait 5 seconds and
then turn off. So that way she would have to
get up and hit the button again. But but guys, so I built the
automation and I tested it while she was gone.
So I know it worked, but this was not a good week for that.
We have a new puppy. She had a crazy work schedule.
This was I so I had no, no point.
Did I turn it on for her. I, I built it, but I didn't turn
it on for her because I was like, this is how I get dumped.
Like this is how I, I lose my relationship.
I lose everything. This was not a good week to do
that. Like we, we've been chasing
Riley around. We've been like, like one point
Riley stepped in her own poop, then ran inside.
It was like, OK, like this is not.
This was not a good week for that.
And on top of that, she had a crazy work schedule.
So I built it and it was ready to go.
I just never enabled it. Chicken down.
I did chicken out. I didn't want to get dumped.
I mean, what you could have done apparently, is just do something
really nice, yeah. See that's what it like if I
would have known that's what the challenge was because that was
that is not the state. Yeah, I didn't realize how prank
could be. Just do.
Something nice for your partner. I mean it's.
Not really a prank. But I feel like they should have
a moment where they're like, what?
What the Hell's? Going on, what is happening?
Yeah, what happened like. That they were surprised.
See that thing in the entrance? OK, OK.
OK, yeah, I mean, I could have done something really nice for
Danielle. I you know what?
I'm going to give her the Xbox in the living room this whole
weekend and let her play Lego Batman.
I'm just I that's, that's cuz she is very excited about a new
Lego game. So that's that's the nice thing
I'll do for her. OK, good prank.
Yeah, I'm not sure that's a prank, but I'll let her have it.
Maybe I'll take the batteries out of her Xbox controller.
That's way on the other end of this.
Picture I'll throw out a little extra batteries, it'll be great.
I'll throw out her controller. You know what I'll do is I'll,
I'll take the HDMI cable out of the wall.
So there's no HDMI cable going from the TV to the Xbox, and our
TV is mounted on the wall, so it goes into the wall.
There you go. That's what I'll do.
No, I'm not going to do that anyways.
Yeah, so I chickened out. I'm sorry.
I didn't want to get dumped. That's OK, That's OK.
You didn't win, but it's OK. That's fine.
Dimming. Dimming slowly the lights.
That was pretty good. That was pretty good.
I you know what, Matt? I think we'll give you 1.
Sure. We'll allow it this one time.
It's a nice thing we're doing for you, Matt, but it's your
challenge this next week. What do you got for us?
You may regret this immediately. A challenge is just three words.
Join a cult. Can I start a cult?
No. I really think I'd make a great
cult leader. I all cult leaders do.
I I really do think I would make a great cult leader.
I think I could be a really good like, like I, I'm, I'm animated,
you know, I could get people to follow me.
Yeah. Join a cult.
I mean I would say join a cult. Don't start a cult kids don't
start cults. Does it have to?
Be a real cult. I mean well listen, it was more
of a software cult so you could use Superhuman.
Of course the the the absolute GOAT of software cults.
I don't pay for anything necessarily.
Obsidian is a cult. Notion is a cult.
I would argue BB Edit is a cult. Launch Bar is a cult.
I'm installing Linux. Linux is a cult.
Linux is definitely a cult. Linux.
Once you're in, you're in. You're in for life.
Yeah, so you may escape a little bit, but they'll they'll bring
you back. So join a cult, use, use a cult,
use an app with a or something with a cult following that you
don't typically use. Use it a little bit.
Oh. OK, OK, OK.
Interesting. OK, cool.
Alright. Have to think on this for a bit.
That was good, that was good. See, problem is I'm already part
of cults Canon. Apple Obsidian.
Looked up Pepper. Doctor Pepper.
See. A cult of 1, though I don't know
if there's like a Doctor Pepper is.
There Mastodon the cult. Mastodon's definitely a cult.
You talk about any other social media on Mastodon, people get
mad at you. They're back.
Well, they're not Federated. They're not properly Federated.
That's true. How?
How journey. That's not a cult, That's just.
True, by the way. By the way, The Verge, did you
see what The Verge did? Yeah, they Federated the quick
post things. Yeah, this.
They announced that they were federating like the quick post
on their homepage to and when you look at the fine prints.
I I really don't know what that means by the.
Way, yeah. So I don't want to trash talk
them, but but I will a little bit.
It seems like by federating they mean we are just duplicating
that post and so basically cross busting on blue sky threads and
there was another one and that's it, isn't that it?
Yes. Mastodon.
There's no Mastodon because like this saying like the Fred's
account is Federated so it shows up on Mastodon.
So technically. It's actually federating
anything. What they're doing is they
literally just have an automation set up to take a
quick post and post it to. These others like it, but also
they're saying like the replies to the posts are supposed to
show up on the website. And they do.
I didn't see that. Yeah, which is which seems
weird. It seems like they have two bots
set up, one to cross post and the other to scrape the replies
and copy them. Why?
First off, why do you even have comments on?
Yeah, that's if. If it wasn't so ingrained in the
YouTube culture I would turn comments off.
You cannot turn comments off. You cannot turn comments off.
It is ingrained like Apple is the only people that turn
comments off and even they are starting to come around.
All does it like penalize you in the?
Algorithm. Well, people just are like.
This guy has no confidence. He's doing like, like it is.
It is a huge faux pas. It is like.
And and comments are part of the engagement algorithm too.
Yeah, true. So anyways.
But yeah, no. Wow.
So Mastodon is not a cult, but I do have a sticker right here on
my mic. See.
Mastodon is definitely. That's the kind of a cult.
That is Mastodon. I have the Mastodon flashy on
the. Two of the elephant so.
Can I? Can I?
I'm gonna join the Ford cult. Can can I join the?
Can I? Just buy another car Chris.
You are actually not short on cults.
You are. Yeah, you know.
Pretty heavy on cults. But my cults are good cults like
I've. Got good cults.
OK, OK, I've. Got great cults.
I've got the best cults. No, nobody's cults are as good
as mine. You should see my cult numbers.
My cult numbers are off the chart.
We have the best best cult numbers.
Oh boy. OK, OK.
All right. So that brings us to the end of
the show and I got an in the show question for you and it's
mostly a follow up question, but I want to know what web browser
you're currently using what what web browser is open right now?
Not not what might be your default browser, but what web
browser is currently. Open and that has 10 browser.
Web browser. You can type a URL into it and
it resolves. There's there's a bar in there
you can type it. You can type in just
birchtree.me.co.uk.gov dot. What if I have a couple of them
open? OK, what are they just?
I have you know what? It's 3 Chromium browsers and my
battery life is great. Helium is my go to.
It remains my go to just day-to-day browser.
Dia is my work browser and Vivaldi for whatever reason is
where I just have comfort zone siloed in here.
So I this is where I have the tier list app bookmarked.
That's where I have Riverside ready to go.
So I have 3 apps open right now and again all Chromium, great
battery life. Neilion, can I just answer for
you? Yeah.
Chrome. What do you mean no, I'm.
Just kidding. No, it's Vivaldi.
It's got to be. Vivaldi OK, I'm still on.
Vivaldi. Nice, I'm still using Dia.
I'm pretty happy with Dia. I'm still using.
Dia, you were supposed to give us an update.
Pretty happy with it. I tried the the tabs at the top
like you suggested. I immediately went back to the
sidebar. I love the side.
I love the sidebar. The sidebar is great.
I haven't finished. I'm I'm in the process of
setting up 1 password and all that stuff.
I just haven't quite I've been it's been a crazy week.
It's it's been. You know I'm I'm becoming an
anti sidebar in browsers. I think I'm turning around.
I think then you should use. Safari.
People go Safari. This is what I'm saying.
Sometimes sidebar, sometimes tab, sometimes top, it doesn't
matter. I think.
The sidebar killed top bars. Anyone who uses top bars is
overthinking it and I feel sad for people that are using the
top tabs. Christopher Nolan doesn't use
top tabs. Title.
That is the title of the
episode. Christopher Nolan doesn't use
top tabs. All right, thank you all so much
for listening. Have a great day.