Welcome to Between Three Witches, where we talk about
witchcraft in plain sight, everyday magic lived honestly
and is hosted by three witches, Me, GAIL, the witch next door.
Me, Vicki, the really green witch.
And me and on the anonymous witch.
We all walk different paths with different levels of experience,
but share a deep respect for the craft as it is actually
practice, not the dramatized version that people expect.
Today's episode dives into a topic that always gets people
talking, the basics of witchcraft and the terminology.
Because yes, we get loads and loads of questions about this
from everybody. So we're going to break it down
really simply for you all today. But before we get into that, how
have we all been since the last episode?
Exhausted and looking forward to a holiday.
All booked up, I'm getting ready to go and I'm.
Going to get a couple. Of days, right?
Yeah, yeah, we did just a quick Lake City thing and we are just
going to go and scooch off, not do the real world for a week and
go and have fun. That's what we're going to go.
And do oh sounds amazing. Similar to VEC, I've booked a
nice little week away with me and my boys.
Hopefully the weather will be as delicious as what it is now.
So yeah, I can't wait. I'm really looking forward.
To it, I know, I think where the weather shifts, we all just get
into that shift mindset, right? And that's definitely part of
the craft, especially when you've been practicing for a
little while and you lean into that seasonal shift.
It just changes everything. But like I said last time, I was
birthing my drum, which I got to do since the last episode.
And if you've never heard of this before, because I've had to
explain it to a lot of people going, oh, what do you mean?
You birthed a drum. So to break it down simply
actually, because this is what this podcast is about today,
birthing a drum is you're building your own drum.
You get to pick the hives that you're going to work with.
And I picked a deer. I've already got a goat hide.
You can choose to have the drum circle.
That's not what it's called. What's the circular bit inside?
Well, anyway, you can have the wooden part of the drum sent you
beforehand so you can connect with that, which is Birch.
And Birch is all about new beginnings, which I love.
And then when you birth the drum, it's a whole ritual around
bringing the spirit of the animal back into the drum that
you're making. You're with an amazing group of
people who are all doing the same thing and they've got
different hides and you get to connect and same ritual.
But it's also an Avery as well, which I just adore the energy
there. So I had an absolutely amazing
day. And then the week after, which
was the last weekend, I got to go and then play my drum and
become quite a tourist attraction to be honest, because
all of the tourists said the weather, like you say, Anon has
been incredible and everybody's going around recording us some
app. I was drumming on that, drumming
on that, leaning on the leaning on the Stones.
But what I wanted to go just tag me, Gayle the witch next door.
But I didn't. I was leaning into my drum with
my drums, leaning into the energy of Avebury.
So I get to go and do my drum circle every month.
But what an incredible experience.
And I know I'm really fortunate to be able to do that birth in
my own drum. But yeah, highly recommended by
me. But I would say it is similar to
breathing life into your puppets, into your objects, into
your effigies, that idea of birthing something and really
connecting with all the materials that you're using and
essentially bringing it to life, so to speak.
So similar. But I haven't been drumming on
any drumming Avebury, but it sounds like something I should
do. Oh, it's.
Just incredible. I mean, just yeah, the energy of
Avebury as well. I love it.
I absolutely. And I forget, I literally live
20 minutes away. It's diabolical that I don't go
more often. So well, I do now.
But yeah, it's been a more more recent thing.
OK, so shall we get into today's topic, the basics of witchcraft
and the terminology? And listeners, you are coming in
raw today because we have all got an alcoholic beverage in
hand. It's a Friday night.
This is probably going to go over 2 podcasts, one because we
may not get our words out but two, this is such a deep topic
we really want to do it justice and go through as much as
possible so bear with us. I'll try and edit out the really
ridiculous bits and or they will stay in for the humorous factor
as we go through our drunken journey I.
Already have the giggles so. We already have the giggles and
yeah, oh, yakida, yakida. OK, so shall we start with what
witchcraft actually is? And it's a really difficult
thing to sometimes explain to people, especially when I've
seen on social media just this week and I've seen it before,
but it popped up again. And it was a show in the UK
called This Morning where it had a witch come onto the show in a
pointy hat talking about what a witch is.
And I, I just, I don't know who this lady is, but I don't feel
like she did it justice at all. But on the flip side, it does
get a bad rap. So I guess, Anon, how would you
describe what witchcraft actually is?
And we're not talking about book terminology.
This is just about real live, what it means to you.
Oh wow, it means everything to me, quite honestly.
Like I've said to you both before, I, I genuinely can't
pinpoint a time in my life where I look back and think, oh,
that's when I decided to be a witch.
That's when I decided to practice magic.
It's kind of always been there. And I think a lot of that is
because of how I've been brought up, you know, in a very open
family, you know, you'll be you, you'll be happy, etcetera.
Witchcraft for me is about empowerment.
It's about taking a stance as a female.
It's about embracing my own femininity, my own divine, my
own source, recognising the power within.
And for me anyway, in my practice, when I work with
deities, I don't view it as I'm bowing to them, nor do I expect
them to bow to me. We we meet as equals and we
converse as equals and we work in unison.
It's such a beautiful practice and as I said, it is genuinely
part of my day-to-day practice that I don't know who I would be
without it. I have to agree with this.
I've been doing this a really long time.
I don't remember really not doing it.
I'm a I'm an artist, but that isn't just a work thing.
And so it's like witchcraft to me is the same as being an
artist. I live it every, I live that
creativity all the time, whether it be through arty stuff or
through if you like witchcraft type things to do.
It is just me. And that sounds like a terrible
answer, but it's that constant learning, the constant view for
knowledge, the constant creation.
How can I work with parts? How can I grow things better?
How can I work better with nature?
Stripping myself right back and being really honest with myself
as well. Really honest.
I've done something that doesn't work.
Why is that? Was that something to do with me
and that honest relationship with myself with continued
learning? I think that's how I'd sum it
up. Yeah, but, and you know what?
I love the way that you 2 have described that because the
honest roots of witchcraft and when we talk about folk
tradition and practitioners, they didn't call themselves
witches, did they? It wasn't about naming the name,
it was about like you say, working with plants.
It was about who they are, being honest with their emotions.
I I know you've said in a previous podcast as well about
passing down things orally as well, Vicky so true, honest
Witchcraft didn't have a name. It was about being one with
nature. That's how I feel.
I lean into a folk practitioner, but the word, which for me is
reclaimed as a power position because I want people to know
and understand that I reclaim every part of my soul that has
been told not to be who I'm supposed to be as a female, as a
practitioner. You know, when we go back to
historically why witches in inverted commas were persecuted.
I'm going down a bit of a rabbit hole here.
But but ultimately, witchcraft is from a folk tradition, which
is what I practice, although I don't call it that.
Something where I'm working with herbs and the land and the moon
and the energy and myself, like Vicky articulated, articulated
really well. Like it's being honest with
myself. It's feeling the energy of
others and how that resonates for me.
So witchcraft can be practiced without having the need to call
ourselves a witch because traditionally it wasn't what we
did. But again, the reclamation of
that word is also OK. I took on, if you like, the
label Witch, and we'll get to why I call myself Green Witch a
bit later on. But I took on the label Witch
because others called it, called me it first before I even took
that name on. And I only took that on because
I understood the history of it and the power of it, and I'm
going to reclaim it. But the other thing about
witchcraft, and I've been asked this a lot as well, is like, do
you have to come from a lineage witchcraft?
I know. I mean my obvious answer to this
is because I haven't been practising my whole life is no,
you reclaim that position in your life exactly when it's
meant to be. However, that's no disc justice
to those that have had the fortunacy in this lifetime to
have all of that passed down generationally, but it doesn't
make you more or less of a witch than anybody else.
But what? What do you guys think about
that? That's that's my stance anyway.
Right, I I fully agree with what you've said.
Years gone by in, in my tradition anyway, in Welsh
folklore, we did not class ourselves as witches.
We were the healers, the wise people ETC.
Both my nannies, both my mum Gears as we call them, were
witches, but they didn't call themselves that.
My mum is witchy, but again, she will not call herself a witch.
So theoretically, technically, you could say there is some form
of line there. Do I feel that that gives me any
power? Absolutely not.
And I'll tell you why.
I honestly think there were more people connected to the land,
connected to the spirits, connected to nature than we will
ever know of. And the people that we do know
of were probably the ones that specialized in it, that had the
time to specialize, to gain their knowledge in her law and
to gain their knowledge and to be healers.
Because I know that there are, you know, people in my family
that have also connected. Do I feel that?
Oh well, I know everything? Absolutely not.
I'm still learning and I always have learnt and I work in a very
different way to how my mum Gears worked and, and how they
connected to the land. There are similarities.
Absolutely. There is a blueprint for me to
follow, there are guidelines. But is my practice absolutely
the same? No, because it's modernised as
well. You know, I've had to change
with the times as well. And I think a lot of people feel
very strongly. You do hear practitioners saying
Oh well, you know, I'm a 13th, you know, born woman and all the
traditions of my father was the 7th son and all this and and
what you, you're just born with all this magical power within
you. Shut up.
Maybe that's really, that's a really fair thing because magic
traditionally was an extension of religion.
It could have been like regional as well, like because it wasn't
called magic, it wasn't called witchcraft in the sense that we
call it today. So it's really fair to say that
we've evolved into these modern practitioners.
So when we talk about what witchcraft really is, it's a
blend of the old ways mixed with the modern.
And I think that's really important for new practitioners
to understand that all of those things are correct if they feel
right to you too, because we can get so caught up in what is the
right thing to do. But actually all of it's
correct. Oh, you've got lineage perfect.
You've got all of that education to be passed down.
You're a new practitioner, but you want to work with deities.
That wasn't necessarily part of like folk tradition either, in
the traditional, in the modern sense that it is today.
Oh yeah, to work as a Greenwich, like you say, Vicky, that that
wasn't a traditional term, but it's something you've adopted as
a modern practitioner because it represents part of your craft.
But you've got lots of traditional things passed down
orally as well, which is fabulous.
I haven't got that. I've got to try and find it.
I think that's the only bonus of it, some of which I know was
passed down and I'm so grateful for that.
Do you think, do you think that could be restrictive to some
practitioners who? Absolutely.
Because yeah, I guess it's part of being any family dynamic
where you've got the expectation then to follow that path and
then you don't necessarily open up to other areas of the craft
because that's the way you've been taught.
I have an interest in lineage. I'm not even going to harp on
about it because to me that isn't who I am.
It's helpful for some of the knowledge that I have and some
of the knowledge that was passed on.
That said, I still have to find my own path.
Do I think people could really get stuck into I'm this type of
practitioner because X amount of generations were?
I think they can. But do you know what?
The thing with folk craft, which is what I'll call it for the
moment, because if we go way back, when that's what it was,
it was just folk craft working with the land, making sure you
survive, making sure you can heal people who've got a, you
know, a sickness in some way, shape or form.
It's always evolved and I was lucky enough to have a family
and a supportive family who understood that it evolves.
Everybody's slightly different, everybody has slightly different
gifts or interests and that's what makes the world go round.
So I was very lucky in that sense.
There are members of my family who don't practice, but they've
got the same lineage as I have. It's not a power move.
It's more maybe I do things a little bit more considered of
the why I do things just because that was taught to me much
earlier. The other thing about that, I'm
just wondering those people within your family that don't
practice openly like you, they're still like local and
folkloric like superstitions, right that are passed down
generation generationally and whether they've still taken on
the superstitions but don't consider themselves witchy per
SE that I. Think some if I go through the
head list of my family, some do some poo poo it completely but
they don't mind other people practising.
That's not a problem. I'm just wondering if they will
throw salt over their shoulders. That's what I'm wondering.
I don't, I have to ask them. They don't pick up the knife
when they drop it on the floor. I'll never pick up somebody on
the stairs. Don't pass on the stairs.
What do you mean? Oh no, you're not witchy at all.
Oh my goodness. Yeah, the superstitious do tend
to stay in families, don't they? But that's old folklore.
Absolutely witchcraft, again, in inverted commas.
That was where it all stemmed from.
It was the folk traditions and superstitions which have evolved
into modern day practices. But then you've got the modern
day practices that have turned into more ceremonial magic as
well, which I don't align with at all, but it's a valid way of
practicing. But that ceremonial practice,
especially when you think of the night as in the craft, was
really kind of put out there as part of what witchcraft looks
like. Feels like Wicker as well, which
we'll come on to potentially in in one of the subjects as we as
we go through this. But yeah, modern practice.
And again, there's no right or wrong.
It's how it feels aligned for you.
But we there's two differentials when you're saying what
witchcraft is. It's so many things, and as a
individual you need to find out what that practice and what that
word means for you too. Can anybody be a witch?
Absolutely. I think should people be
witches? There are some people that maybe
shouldn't, and that isn't me pulling hierarchy because I
could be one of those people who shouldn't be doing it in theory.
Oh my God, why? What have you?
I know. I just no, but you know, is the
is the respectful and going a bit careful, isn't it?
Oh, can anybody learn this stuff?
Absolutely. Should maybe everybody be doing
it. That's for them.
That's their path. You know, maybe, maybe, maybe
learning a few things on social media, short form, wearing a
pointy hat and going on. Oh my God, don't that winds me
up even thinking if you had stuff on my social media last
night and I'd seen it weeks ago and I know there's been some
conversation groups about it and and I didn't want to post
anything because it would just bring hate on that Lady.
But it's just it's just so degrading.
Like at least explain what a pointy hat means and why that's
or reference to witchcraft, or just explain why you're holding
a broom and why we call it a BASM and what that means.
And by the way, we will talk about that as we go through
witchcraft and terminology because I know some of you won't
be familiar with that. But explain it because it takes
the fear and the mockery out of it.
Because there is a huge laughing community that find it all
funny. I hear it every single day and I
try, I take a lot of it with tongue in cheek, but also I do
get quite passionate about the fact that I do this so openly
and on social media to empower people not to do the same, but
to find what works for them. So yeah, educate yourself on all
of those things. OK, so shall we go through the
key terms then that you will hear quite often in witchcraft?
So this one, I don't know why, but there's an emotion that
stirs in me. So I'm going to let one of you
answer first about it. But I know why it stirs an
emotion in me, but it just does so magic.
And then we see the word magic with AK.
What do you guys? Well, maybe you shouldn't say
how you feel about it and I'll explain why I feel a certain way
in a bit. But what's your understanding of
that term? Do you use magic with AK?
No. No, no.
And we're all going no, because most of us.
And that came from a practitioner in the 1900s who
did actually really popularize witchcraft, to be fair, But it
was a very ceremonial form of witchcraft.
And he came with a lot, a lot of baggage and a lot of negativity.
And I won't profess to understand Aleister Crowley in
great detail. He was an occultist.
Was he? Did he call himself a magician?
Have I made that up? Maybe it's one to dive deeper on
if you guys want to understand. But whenever I see the word
magic with AK, it's not something I would ever use.
It's a modern version of magic that was created by Alessa
Crowley. But I, I don't know what you
guys feel think about it or whether you've got more
information actually about that. I think you've pretty much hit
what I know on the head. I'm not a deep diver on the
Crowley. For me personally, I don't use
the K. I'm not a Crowley lover.
There's an like I said, when I see the word magic, it
immediately gives me an emotion. So that emotion I always try and
understand a bit deeper. I think I know why he used the
key, it was more to do it and I had to look because I couldn't
remember the actual quote. But he defined it as the science
and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will.
So mainly to distinguish spiritual or ritual practice
from stage magic, and I believe that's why decay was added.
I might be wrong, but yeah. But isn't it interesting that
stage magic? I wonder where he was going with
that. And I guess like social media
media today, we talk about people doing performance and
aesthetics. Perhaps his view of the world
was very similar. But maybe we're going down too
far of a deep root with Aleister Crowley and move on.
But if that's something that interests you.
But for information, the K comes from Aleister Crowley, an
occultist practitioner in the 1900s who's got a very dodgy
past. OK, so the next one on the list,
energy. What does energy mean to each
and every one of us? It is the life force of
absolutely everything. There is nothing without some
form of energy. We're not separate from energy.
We're not separate little bubbles of energy.
Our energy to me personally, goes from one thing to another
thing. Whether it be a rocketry, there
is no break in between. We are one and all from the
earth up to the wind that's going to trees.
We are all energy. That's it.
But that's interesting you say that.
So I want to asking, do you think all of that energy is
interlinked then or are there different energy sources?
Me personally, I think everything is interlinked.
I think some of it has a different vibrant energy.
Look, we've had tipples. Yes, that's all I'm going.
To say no, it's only going to get worse from here on it.
So no, I said it's a question I wanted to ask because there are
different viewpoints on this, right?
Like there is a one source, one source of energy, and when we
die, we all go back to that one source, like how our human body
goes back. But that's one set of beliefs.
Some people believe everything holds energy, but they're
separate energetic vibrances like you say.
But do they come back together after the human or whatever form
they took or? Yeah.
OK, so just to try and clarify what I'm trying to say is
currently I'm a human being. We're hoping OK and to live I
have to use what's around me for sustenance to create energy and
use those calories up so I can do the day.
I can be really busy and use more energy and I interact with
things all the time. That's all energy movement.
However, when I die, my body goes back to the earth, and that
energy goes back into the earth and it will become a tree, or it
will feed a plant, or that in turn will feed an animal.
So that's what I'm saying. Everything, in essence is
connected. Do I think it's all from one
source? I actually don't know.
Well, I'll ask you again in a future episode.
Maybe done the shadow work on that.
Sorry, don't mean to mind you up the shadow work.
What do you think, Anna? What's energy to you?
Are you human? I think I am.
I don't know. Give give me a bit now.
I've only had a few sips of wine.
I don't know, ask me in half hour.
At the minute I'm collecting with the energy of the wine beer
and it's lovely. Welcome to our Friday night
guys. No, it's, it's similar to what
Vixen I I do believe we are all from one source.
Now will I be still within that viewpoint in 10 years time?
I don't know. And that's the point of my
journey. I meander, I gain further
knowledge along the way. I'll park some ideas as I'm
going. I do think we're all connected.
However, I do think there are more vibrational forms of
energy. I don't want to use the word
powerful or higher forms of energy because that's not
necessarily my belief system, but I do believe that there can
be energy out there that I I will not consent to working with
the majority of the time. That is primarily while I why
I'm doing my protection and a lot of the energies I do work
with or the spirits I would class are from the other world
or the other realms. And I will view those energies
and spirits as can I say brighter or with, with a, with a
different vibrational energy to them compared to where I am here
in my physical realm, in my physical body.
And I, I do align with this idea of, you know, changing our
vibration to attract certain energies in.
I do align with that. See in essence and on what you
were saying is you're human currently.
And you may. Change and you may change your
view later on, which is pretty much what I was saying.
Yeah, that's what I said. Same as fine, yeah.
But I but that do again, though, you make a really good point
because you guys have been practicing for longer than I
have. We've lost we've lost Anon she's
because she's got you've been practicing a while longer than
me. And as we were talking then,
because I asked the questions and I don't think about my
answer until afterwards. And I I'm not really fully
formed with the idea that we all lead back to one source either.
I've definitely not come to that conclusion.
But I've also, like I said in the last episode, started being
open to different levels of vibration that I had no clue I
would ever be aligned to, like this dragon energy.
And that's a really modern practice.
It feels ancient to the core, though, and it feels very
aligned with Avebury, which I keep coming back to.
But it's just currently where I'm at.
That's that's where my path's taking me at the moment.
All, all roads leave back lead back to the stones for me.
So, so, yeah. So energy for me is, is not only
just about the energy that I'm holding is the energy from the
people around me, the energy of my home, the energies that I can
tap into. But where does all that energy
lead? I guess I haven't quite got
there yet. And interestingly, I did, I did
a live workshop on my Patreon last night and one of the
questions and it was irrelevant to the, the, the, the live.
I was doing a pendulum workshop for beginners, which was really
fun. I was an absolute knob on it as
per usual because I thought I had a mouse in here, but
actually it was my fizzy drinks squeaking.
Anyway, not to digress, but the question was, so I was
explaining about how a pendulum moves from the energy within us
and like our intention, which actually that's probably the
next point. But the energy that we hold
within us is not like spirit coming around and knocking it.
And I said look, and I was trying to explain energy to to
the group that I was working with.
I said about the energy of your house and somebody put a
question. They said do you really believe
that your house has got energy? I'm like, absolutely.
Is it the spirit of your home? And they're like actual spirit.
I said, no, I don't believe there's a person walking around.
That's not how I view the energy of my home.
But it has a name. It can get blocked.
It can feel overwhelmed. It can feel joy and happiness.
It can feel grief because all of those things are held by the
people that reside within it. That's how I view that energy.
It's not like it's like you say. It's within everything.
My plants have got energy and they keep fucking dying because
I'm not giving them the positive and they're absorbing all the
negative. Energy belongs to everything.
Stop laughing and on about. My SO And it can be absorbed as
well, isn't it? And that, that's the point.
It can be absorbed by our buildings, it can be absorbed by
our land. We can absorb it, you know that.
This is why it's so important that when we enter, when we
sorry, when we exit a room where it's been difficult or we can
feel that negative energy in that, it's so important to
energetically shift it and cleanse ourselves when we leave.
OK, so if I'm going to take this out of the mystical, and I was
talking to my husband about it, who doesn't do anything
witchcraft at all, if I said to him, or I'll say to you guys,
you have been out for the day, OK.
You don't know what's gone on in your house with regards to your
family. You don't know who's had a fun
time or an argument. You come home, you open the
door, and without seeing them, you know what the energy in your
house is? You know, when someone's
upstairs? Yeah, they've just lost an
argument. But you haven't seen those
people. It's it's that weird funk.
Yeah. Weird.
What in the air? Funk.
Oh, OK. Don't ask me to spell it FMK no
FM you. So in tension, we hear about
this all the time, but what people don't do very well, I see
particularly is put detail around it or explain it.
So when we go, we need intention, or you should have
intention when you're doing a spell.
And intention is such a broad term, but actually I think
intention is kind of linked to energy as well, because the
force that we're putting into something and the way that we're
thinking about what we want to achieve is the way that I view
intention. But it's so flippantly thrown
around again, social media where most of us are trying to learn
or hone our craft or bring in different parts of our
understanding. They go well, intention.
And especially when they say intention is everything.
It absolutely is not. But I will let you 2 speak on
that a little bit more. But intention for me is just
about setting, setting our view on what we want to achieve.
Because if we're not clear from the outset what we're trying to
do with anything, when we're divinating, when we're doing
spell work, when we're getting up in the morning, the intention
is what do we want to achieve? When I get up in the morning, do
I want to have a shit day or do I want to have a good day?
My intention is I want to have a good day, so I want to lean into
that intention. When I'm sat down doing spell
work, it's not just about going give me the money, make sure you
protect me. The intention is about how I
feel about the outcome as well. Like what do I want to feel into
energetically? Which is why I say they're
intertwined. When I'm making that intention,
how is that going to feel in my body?
What is the expectation when I'm setting that intention?
I don't know if I've articulated that well, but I I think those
two things are interlinked. When we're setting our intention
to something, it's more interwaven as to what we want
the outcome to be, rather than just going, Oh yeah, I want
loads of money, Oh yeah, I want to protect myself.
Oh yeah, I want to have a good day.
We can all say those things, but without leaning into the energy
of what we want that to feel like at the end of the day, when
we've cast that spell, when we've drawn in the things that
we're working towards, then it's not going to work.
So intention for me is not just a word, it's about the feeling
behind what we're doing and what expectation we've got around
that It's. An it's an interesting word,
isn't it? Because it does get thrown
around so flippantly and it gets thrown around Intention is
everything. Well, actually, yeah, it's kind
of important, but it's not everything.
Because if you're not breaking it down to what it actually is,
you've got a very broad spectrum word there, haven't you?
So to me, intention, that's my what, my why and my emotion
about that and what and why I want that to happen and how I
want that to happen. But I'm going to use my energy
through emotion to make that work in a, you know, in
spellcraft as such, does that. No, it does.
It's it's a difficult one to explain, but I and like I said,
I think it links to energy because intention isn't just
about going this is what I want, blah, blah, blah.
It's about really feeling into what that means.
What what does it mean for you Anon?
Do you use intention or the word intention within your craft?
Well, I don't necessarily use the word intention, but the
ethos behind it is integral to my spell working, I would say.
So I like viewing in my mind a triangle, a triangle shape,
which is a very sacred symbol for me.
The first process of that is the thought or something's come into
my head, do I need to do this? Do I need to do that, etcetera.
And then as Vic was saying, breaking it down the wise, like
I've said before, you know, sleeping before doing a working,
you know, writing things down, reflecting on it.
So the first process is usually the thought aspect.
For me, intention is more about the energy aspect of it.
And it's it's it's all interwoven with with every
aspect. So it's the intention is, am I
working with deities with this? What kind of energy am I placing
into this, bringing my energy up to match, so to speak, the
energy that I want to attract back in.
So intention is used a lot, but it's absolutely not everything.
But I would say it is a vital part of my spell work.
And then the last aspect is the action.
Like you were saying, you know, I want money to come to me.
The action part of it is looking at how I can save where I can
save. You know, have I been buying
lunch every day while I've been in work?
Have I been buying that coffee every day?
You know, can I shop in a more in in a better way then that,
you know, in in shops where certain items are cheaper?
Can I start, you know, cooking things that are, you know, bulk
made and already prepped? So I'm taking so it's, it's,
that's the action, it's placing it in.
It's like someone said, I want a new lover coming in, but
actually sitting on their ass on the sofa and just expecting this
beautiful other human being to just knock on their door.
Sounds lovely. But you've you've got to do it.
You know you've got to. Get you know what?
I'm sorry for jumping in but I just reminded me of a comment I
had on a post on YouTube yesterday and basically I said
that we shouldn't be doing spell work for everything like you
say. And then that's why I jumped in
and on because you were talking about what is the intention and
why you're doing so. The comment was that I was a
scammer because I was saying that it's also the action you
take, not just no oh, that you passed, Oh no, I'm a scammer.
And yeah. No, I I would argue in just in
my practice, it is not craft, it is not spell work, it is not
magic without some form of action there.
Absolutely. I can have the.
I can have the absolute intention to bake a cake, but
without mixing the cake ingredients together and put it
in the oven, I'm not getting a cake.
What are you going to get, man? No.
Fresh. Air at this moment, but it's
true and and just to say that we intend for something to be is
just yeah, it's wild. And we see this an awful lot.
It's just like, OK, we can throw all of the items and
correspondences and layer up which we're going to talk about
again in a second. Our magic and we go all right,
our money balls done our money balls done.
And I intend it to work. But actually intention runs far
deeper than that. It's not just about the
intention of what you want it to do.
It's about like what Anand just said there's what undue Vicky
actually the why, the how. How is that going to make me
feel when it's achieved? Because breaking down those
elements then get you back to what the intention actually is.
Because if you're putting in intention, my car's broken down
and I didn't and I need money. And this is going to sound quite
new agey. It's just new agey stuff has has
clicked on to this, which is quite an old thing, isn't it?
But what I'm actually doing is I'm actually focused on the fact
that I have lack of money because I can't get my car
fixed. Right.
Yeah, Yeah. And then I'm, I'm going to
subconsciously say, well, I've got lack of money, I can't get
my car fixed, but I really want this money.
And now I'm not going to take any action whatsoever other than
just expect a cheque to come through my door.
It doesn't work like that. Well, on YouTube, apparently I'm
a scammer. Well.
So basically the intention is the driver, but it is multi
layered and multifaceted. Yes.
Just tend to have something. But actually it's far more
deeper than that, I think is our summary of intention.
So correspondences then guys, What I mean we can start with
the caveat, right? We don't need correspondences
for magic to work. The magic is within us.
And I didn't mean that to sound sarcastic because I genuinely
and wholeheartedly know that to be fact.
That is what I teach. That is the core of my belief.
Yeah, I just realised it sounded a certain way as I said it, but
I also really love correspondences, so I'll go last
because I'll talk about it all day otherwise.
But what do you guys feel about correspondences and on how do
you use that in your practice? And what does correspondences
mean to you? I think it comes back to what
you were mentioning earlier about layers.
Correspondences can can mean a wealth of things.
You get correspondences with colours, you get correspondences
with herbs, with flowers. So as an example, if you wanted
to add extra energy or extra oomph as I like to call it, to
your working, you were going to add layers and those layers can
be represented by herbs, plants, colours, pebbles, shells, sand,
earth, etcetera. When it comes.
Moon. You forgot the moon.
The moon. Celestial.
That's celestial bitch up there. She's stunning.
Yeah, the moon, the weather, the spirits of the land, and
absolutely yourself. There are many, many, many
workings that I do within the land.
Like I've said before, nature is my altar and myself, my body is
my altar as well, right? But I do love using
correspondences from time to time.
I think it's incredibly important.
It's understanding that every plant, every herb, and every
color will have a wealth of different correspondences to it.
So it's understanding that the spirit of the plant or the herb
as an example, right, may have a poisonous aspect to it or a
negative aspect to it. It might have a neutral aspect
and then also a very positive aspect to it.
When we are speaking to that specific herb, number one, we
are putting our intention that we mentioned our breath and our
energy onto it and we are asking that specific spirit of the
plant to work with us to bring us AB or C in what we want,
whether it be love, whether it be cleansing protection,
spiritual protection, etcetera. And when we look at colours, I'm
not a pink girl, I'm not a pinky pinky girl.
But if you look at the colour correspondent, pink would be
classed as that self love like we get with rose quartz, the
typical crystal, right? For me, my one of my favourite
colours is purple and if I was going to do a self love with
regards to candle magic with the colour I might personally want
to use my personal experience of using purple.
So it's important to understand the correspondences, but it's
also about understanding your own personal connection to
certain plants. There are some people that hate
lavender that can't smell it because it gives them a reaction
or a headache, so for calming spells they can't use it.
There are some people that don't like roses, but for a love spell
as an example most workings will say to use a rose.
I would argue use a flower that you want a loved one to give you
that is one of your favorite flowers and you can still use
that as a really positive correspondence in your working.
I love that you referenced that because it's really important,
because correspondences are, there's traditional
correspondences, folkloric correspondences, but actually
the core of anything that we use in our correspondence magic
especially is based on how we feel about that correspondence.
And like you say in purple for you aligns more fully for self
love than a pink does. And what about you Victoria?
How? How do you use correspondence?
How do you feel about it? Yeah, I'm pretty loosey goosey
with correspondences. Easy peasy.
So correspondences for me are like a palette of paints.
I want to paint a picture. I'm going to put certain colours
on that. I'm going to mix them up a bit
and then hopefully we paint a picture, right.
So my correspondence is in essence, so the different paints
that I've put on a palette, they may change according to my
feeling, how I feel about them, the way I want to layer them up.
Or you could say ingredients of a cake.
I've got cakes and paintings on the on the mind today.
They're just symbolic tools, and we all have different feelings
and the ways of working with them.
And yes, there's some, you know, rosemary's great for memory.
OK, actually, so is mint. So work with what you want to
work with. You don't need all the gizmos
and gadgets. It's about your practice being
your practice. That sounds really bad, but
you're going to layer it up the way that you would layer up a
cake or a loaf of bread, the recipe, the ingredients, the way
that you would layer up a painting.
So they're just tools. They're just tools.
And this prescribed colour magic thing, yes, obviously, I mean,
the colours are a hell of a lot, but some of the correspondences
that are written down in modern terms I don't actually agree
with because for me personally, it doesn't work that way.
Same as Anon was saying about pink.
So yellow for instance, to me it's not a bright and breezy
colour. It's actually something that is
going to go down the lines of more depressive.
So, but that is really interesting because we do all
have our individual references and that can be from like
generational things as well, like our grand mum or what did
you call it, Mamgi, Mamgi. I love that our mamgi gives us
and therefore we always associate like friendship or
love or or whatever it may be to that.
So I sometimes I'm lazy with it and I go actually, no, I'm not
going to use any correspondences.
But if I'm doing specific spell work, which I don't do that
often these days, to be honest, you know, like everybody thinks
we're running around bloody doing spells.
I don't do spells a lot. I'm going to do one this Sunday
and I'm doing 1 next Thursday actually with my Patreon and
abundance Ritual. And the reason I'm doing it on
Thursday is because it's cheaper to stay.
It's the day of expansion. It's my favorite day of the
week, but it also aligns to a waxing moon, which is a super
important correspondence for me. And I will use traditionally
known correspondent herbs like cinnamon, Bay leaf, basil, those
things that are meant to bring in abundance.
So those things are really important to me and I think it
all boils down to again, our individual practices and what we
feel aligned to. So if abundance for you means
something different, then work with that.
Don't question it because our body and the way that we feel
about it reacts much quicker than our mind does.
So we need to feel into that. If we feel like lavender, as an
example, feels abundant to us because we, I don't know, we
have an idea of going to this Manor house when we were a child
and it was lavender everywhere and it just felt luxurious and
abundant because it is one of those plants that grows out of
control. Although mine's just about to
die, but we won't go into that. But anyway, if you've got that
correspondence in your head, that's absolutely relevant.
That's how you should use that herb, that plant, that
correspondence, that color. Vicki, like you said, yellow
feels like depressive. It doesn't for me.
I don't use it within my magical practice that way.
Yellow represents the sun and Sundays and abundance or
creativity even, and joy and all of those things.
So it is just about finding what works for you.
You can use multiple correspondences in magic.
Ultimately you don't need to. Going back to the way I
sarcastically put it across at the beginning but didn't mean
to, The magic is within us, so we can perform magic without any
correspondence at all. But when we feel that we want to
layer it in, we absolutely can and we should focus on what that
means for us individually. Can I just quickly add in as
well correspondences whilst I say I'm going to go, OK, I
won't, then I'll just stop talking.
No. So I'll say it's like putting
colours on a palette that makes it sound like you need to use
lots and lots of them and when we talk about layering up, makes
it sound like you need to use lots of them.
Actually, the thing that I found is if you add too many
ingredients, it can spoil what you're doing somewhat.
Keep it simple guys. You know, keep it simple.
If you just have one thing, do the one thing, that's absolutely
fine. OK, so let's go on to some other
things that we will often hear shadow work.
So I get asked quite a lot about shadow work from people on
Patreon and social media all of the time because it is very much
a popularised area of deep diving our emotions that seems
to have been attributed to witchcraft and just talking from
a historical perspective, it's never been a part of a
traditional witchcraft practice. It was created by a guy called
Carl Jung, again in the 1900s as a psychological tool to
understand, like the shadow, I think the persona, our self,
yeah, which is amazing. It's amazing psychological tool
to break down. And I often use the terminology
on social media because people understand it and can relate to
it. However, shadow work typically
is not a witchcraft thing but elements of our shadow self.
And I think going back to your earlier comment Vicky about
understanding ourselves truly and fully as part of what
witchcraft is. I 100% agree.
Like that is uncovering parts of our self that we need to work
on. Understand.
But I call them shadow because I haven't got a different
terminology to use. But Shadow work is about Carl
Jung, who I believe was like a psychologist, which is why he
kind of coined that phrase, which has now been attributed to
witchcraft, which is, you know, again, something that isn't a
modern, that isn't a historic thing.
Yeah, and you and you'll hear me.
I will use the terminology of it because if I'm talking to other
witches or I'm talking to people who are beginning their journey,
they understand necessarily the term of what shadow work is, but
they've heard the terminology. They know it's more of the sort
of the darker side. If you like.
Do I think you need to do shadow work?
Absolutely. Bloody not.
And and that and there you go. I mean, do I think you ought to
be honest with yourself? And sometimes that's a bit of a
journey, yes, because you find out more of your why.
Do you have to journal then Vic? I don't journal that often.
No, I hate it. But that's also a big part of
modern shadow work practices is to journal it out.
And I know I absolutely, I'm not saying it's not a good thing.
I think I teach it, I advocate for it.
I'm not good at it unless I'm within a space or a specific
kind of workshop or an environment where I'm going to
journal specifically, but I won't get up in the morning and
journal. But that, again, journalling is
part of shadow work, comes hand in hand.
It's more of a modern practice. Yeah, I think.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I take, I have a notebook and I
have a grimoire. I am more likely to take notice
of what a plant is doing or how did that spell go.
Oh my God, I'd love to get hold of your grimoire.
I feel like I'm. Saying nothing.
Is it like a big ancient looking?
Is it on a pedestal? It's kind of heavy.
You got an ancient grimoire, Vic.
Grimoire. I do like a grimoire, but I'm
all Arti Farti, aren't I? So yeah, I do like a grimoire.
Is it? One of those big fancy massive
ones. It's it's.
Pretty. Let me put it that way.
I know. Do you want me to be with you
when I die? I.
Always want yes please. I've always wanted to do a
grimoire, but again, and for those that don't know it's it's
a book where you keep all of the spells and knowledge and you
pass it down generationally. And and and and you put in
things like, you know what works for you?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
This is this is the throat sore throat recipe and actually, you
know, I know that it's going to go have honey and stuff, but I
tried chamomile in that and that worked really, really well.
That was a great success. So that's.
Definitely want you to hand down your grimoire to me, please.
I started one and then I couldn't make it look nice
enough and then I judged myself and I stopped so.
But I also don't have anybody to pass it down to my son.
Well, maybe, maybe he will find his way.
But he's very religious, so we'll see.
Martin going here, you know, I left it to you in my will.
It'll just go to waste. But.
It's actually part of why I it's part of why I started the
Patreon, which is why it's free, because there are some grimoire
pages of mine and info of mine that are actually out and they
will be going out. And it's because people are so
worried about I've got to have this really lovely looking book.
And for me that's, that's, that's an easy thing.
I'm not too to my own horn. That is just what I do.
I know, I bet it's in looking. It's kind of cool.
I'm not showing anybody my grimoire, but what I can do is I
can adapt it a little bit and say, look, you can print this
off if you want to put it on your own paper, just build it
all together, you know, And if you don't agree with some of the
things that I've put in there, actually there's some borders
and stuff that you can use because you don't necessarily
want my stuff in your, in your in your grimoire.
I do. I want to be in the famous Vicki
Grimoire. Does it really agree with the
page? The page of GAIL it is all.
Yeah, mine is all hand bound as well.
It's all hand bound. Oh my God, it sounds the paper.
Has been made. Yeah, I'm a bit picky about it,
but again, I'm really old. I've been doing this a long
time. So there we go.
I. Didn't want to say that and on
over to the other oldie. Hi.
How about you shadow work Grimwells?
What's your thoughts? For me, I actually call it
reflection work. I don't call it shadow work
because when I first heard the term and I thought about viewing
my own shadow, I was like, how is that negative?
Viewing my own shadow that I cast in that beautiful sunlight
or moonlight? My own physical shadow is a
beautiful reflective image of me.
I think reflection work is incredibly important, but it is
not to be done. And I mean this with with love,
right? It is not to be done if there is
any form of trauma there. I would not advise it to be done
on your own. Really digging down deep into
Pandora's box and if and it and if there is anything like that
potentially there in your past. Please seek professional support
soon. I really wouldn't advise that to
be done on your own. With regards to journaling, I
do, I have now See, I don't call them grimoires.
I have lots of books which are primarily a record of my spells,
the dates, the time, the moon phase.
GAIL, you'll be glad to hear. Thank you.
Correspondences, if I use them wise, and I've got box and box
of those because that is my reference, I can look back and
if a spell hasn't come through exactly as I was planning it on,
I look back and reflect on that. With regards to my own
reflection, I've mentioned this before when I go into nature, I
find nature incredibly cleansing anyway.
And if I am in a private, you know, space in the woodland with
my dog, I will speak to nature. And I find that incredibly
cathartic. It's, you know, especially if
I've had a difficult day, a difficult week, if there's lots
of different choices to be made and I'm not sure what pathway to
go on or, you know, do I think something is holding me back and
why and when and all of that. I'll do that in nature or I will
do that in my car driving from A to BI.
Don't need to write that down because as soon As for me
anyway, as soon as I write down my concerns about things, I give
it power. If if that then becomes a
physical reality at at one point it's a thought in my mind, But
as soon as I write something down about a reflection of self
of I, I should have said this, I, I, I could have done that
differently. I give it power and I refuse to
give that power. I'll verbalize it and then I
will let it go. Do you know that's exactly how I
feel about it, Exactly how I feel about it.
Absolutely. Keep notes of what works, what
doesn't work, so that you've got some sort of reference record.
But I am not in for this shadow work journal anything, Not at
all. It's a bit like, you know, when
you've got a cut and it ends up all horrible and posse and green
and grim. Yeah.
Am I going to write about it and try and use some sort of magic
it away? Or shall I go to AGP and go and
get some antibiotics? Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's, it's a very, it's a very good way to look.
And I do advocate this under safe circumstances to view your
progress of mentally and physically where you once were
compared to where you are now. And I think for some people that
can be incredibly important to view their journey of recovery
or, you know, feeling better about themselves or a situation.
But that's not for everybody, you know, viewing back a
specific moment or person in your life that made you feel
horrific is only going to reintroduce that trauma again.
So for me personally, in my practice, I don't work like
that. So as we anticipated, we were
never going to finish this in just one episode.
So the basics of witchcraft and the terminology will definitely
have a Part 2. So make sure you come back for
that. So that leads us on to our come
sit with us listener question. And this week it comes from Lulu
Lava who is on TikTok. She has been loving the podcast.
She's been listening to the questions, but she's always
wondered and we've never seen a question from anyone asking
about this online. And interestingly, we've just
covered some of this, but the question is about shadow work.
Everywhere you hear how important shadow work is.
I've tried books and guides. I just don't get it.
I'm not sure if it's because luckily I've never really had
past trauma and I've never had to deal with it, or it's still
festers. Can you shed any light on this,
please? And I think we've just answered
some of that in truth. But answering this question
specifically, what do you think, Vic?
OK, Yeah. I mean, I think we have actually
already covered it really. But I think if shadow work is in
your bag and you're not connecting with it, you don't
need to do. It and it's a fair question to
ask in terms of whether I've had past trauma, but when we look at
the way Anon phrased it, our reflection and things that we
need to reflect on is there past lives that we need to look at
that are holding us back. It's not necessarily about
traumatic events in this lifetime, but it can be again,
not even trauma, but it can be just things that are holding us
back. Generally speaking, because
we've all got wounds within us from our childhood where we've
got abandonment issues perhaps. And I'm not saying from a
traumatic position, just from being a child and feeling like
we weren't supported or. Somebody saying something shitty
to us, like you're never going to amount to anything or you're
fat or you're ugly. Those things can then come to us
in this adult version of our existence and hold us back.
So shadow work, as we've explained, isn't necessary, but
sometimes it's important to unearth the things that may be
holding you back from moving on. And that's the difference, I
think. So Which?
Sorry, which we covered a little bit earlier on by stripping
yourself back, understanding who you are, why you do things, it's
pretty important. But shadow work isn't necessary,
and you want to go down the cold young psychological route.
What do you think Anon? Think within my craft anyway,
you know, knowing self, understanding self is incredibly
important. We mentioned doing money magic
earlier. I think if you've grown up in an
environment where money was something that everybody else
had, money was something that was only for the wealthy and you
know, you grew up in and an environment where it was always
lacking and you're doing spell work connected to it and you're
thinking actually I'm, I'm not seeing much of A benefit to the
working. I think that's potentially where
a lot of reflection work can come into.
It is understanding your emotional relationship with
money, just as an example of, you know, do you feel that you
do not deserve it? Do you?
Are you still subconsciously in that mindset of money will never
be mine? So therefore, when you're doing
the working, there's a part of you that subconsciously still
thinks, oh, well, this will never happen.
So therefore you're not aligning with that frequency because deep
down you're you still have a negative belief to it.
So I very similar to what you've both said, I I think it is
important to understand self understand where you're coming
from and your lineage, but it's not necessary, it's it and it's
not always safe. Thank you for listening to
Between 3 Witches Witchcraft in Plain Sight.
If this episode resonated, you're welcome to sit with it,
share it, or let it unfold in your own time.
You can find me, Vicki, and Anon on all the social media
platforms and I will write that in the show notes.
Until next time, may your practice meet you exactly where
you are.