Welcome to Between Three Witches, where we talk about
witchcraft in plain sight. Everyday magic lived honestly,
and it's hosted by three witches.
Me, Gayle, the witch next door. Me, Vicky the wheelie.
Green witch and me Anon the anonymous witch.
We all walk different paths with different levels of experience,
but we share a deep respect for the craft as it is actually
practice and not the dramatized version that people expect.
Today's episode dives into a topic that we keep getting
asked. Who the hell are you lot?
So today we are going to interview each other and share
some insights on our practice and our history.
But before we get into all that, how have we all been what we've
been up to? I am loving this weather.
Wow, a beautiful bit of sunshine and you just get so much energy.
It's gorgeous. And it's like, what, a week or
two away now and we're in the festival.
And for those that don't know, we are all going to the Witch
and Pagan festival in Coventry which is hosted and run by the
Coven of Gaia and many other covens in fact.
But the Coven of Gaia are the lead host and it's all a
not-for-profit as well, so it all gets donated to charity.
But all of the witches come together and all of the pagans
and all of the Vikings and everybody can be as weird and
wonderful as they want to be for a weekend, which is incredible.
So yes, we have hopefully the weather sticks then and on as
well. You are going to be there's a
whole Viking village and then they do Viking fights at
lunchtime. And I'll see if I go missing
I'll be with them, right? Right.
We'll find in the Viking Village.
Well, I'm glad you're good. Yeah.
The weather is immense and I've had a really funny weekend.
I've had a really amazing weekend.
I went to do my drumming circle in Avebury, which is my second
home at the moment. I'm so connected to that land
there and it's the largest stone circle in the world.
And it's just incredible energy. And I get to go and share that
space with other women. But I did.
I did go this week with a bit of a heavy heart.
You 2 both know this but I haven't shared on social media.
But on Friday I found a little mouse on my way back from the
shop and I was trying to save the mouse and make a little home
for it and find the right food and and it died and I absolutely
broke my heart. I mean I cried so much on Friday
night it was unbearable. Like it was just pure ugly
crying. And then that carried over onto
or into even the the drumming circle.
And everybody was so joyous and happy to be there.
The sun was shining. And when you sit in community
like that, you have a sharing moment.
And there was me ugly crying, sobbing, you know, when you
can't get your words out because there was so much tears.
But we are spreading my brother's ashes this weekend.
So I think the symbology of me not being able to save that
mouse run very deep cut very harsh.
So yes, not a lovely tale to tell for my weekend, but there
was lots of tears. But but do you know what?
It's so important, I guess just to share.
We are so as human, so used to apologizing or shying away from
emotions and they are all so valid.
And even I have to remind myself that sitting there sobbing and
crying, emotional wreck is absolutely is as good as me
feeling joy and happy or sad or anger.
So I do embrace it, even though it feels, you know, like that
horrible pain in the back of your throat.
And we were holding this little, it's a little owl that we share.
So you hold it and you talk. It was just covered in my snot
and tears. And I had to hand it to the
woman next to me. But she thankfully, I've met her
before and she's like, do you want to hug?
I'm like, not now, you know, when you just can't hug.
Just don't hug me because I'll never stop.
But I did feel so much better. And then we went out and danced
around the stones and chanted and sang and yeah, it was
incredible. So yes, there was a lot of
emotion this weekend, but I also had a really amazing time.
And those moments just bring me back to myself a little bit and
make me feel into my humanness. So Vicky, how was your weekend?
No pressure, my weekend was better than yours I think.
Hey, don't take away from my sadness.
All those emotions. My weekend, yeah, it was good.
Lots of planting up of all the veggies, all the tomatoes are
all planted up, courgettes and squash and all that good stuff.
Some gardens well on the way. And I have completed the first
pass edit on my book, so I know. It's a.
Long time coming, a long time coming and I have completed the
first pass, so yeah. But I know this is the episode
where we're going to ask each other questions, But my first
question is what do you do with no, but what do you do with all
the veg? Like I mean anonymous getting?
Are we getting a box sent to us at the end of the season?
Because it's you must have too much you, you can.
Have a box we so we grow a lot or I grow a lot.
I'm vegetarian anyway so that helps.
It gets shared amongst friends and families.
Some of it gets stored. The veg basically sees me
through for the whole year. Wow, so pretty.
Self-sufficient. Pretty.
Self-sufficient? Yeah, it doesn't.
I'm not self-sufficient for hubby, obviously, because he
eats meat. But I was literally about to
say, how does the husband deal with eating squash for
breakfast? He doesn't eat the squash for
breakfast. Yeah, it's But he doesn't mind.
He doesn't mind the spuds and and the brassicas and stuff like
that. So he kind of has his section.
I have my weird and wonderful section and then as soon as we
start, as soon as it starts, halves him, everything starts
getting canned and sauces and all sorts of things.
We start preserving it. So.
I can't wait to get my veg box I'm Juan on yeah.
Like a good veg box. Thank you.
We give them away mostly on when it starts, halves him.
We actually give away sort of a lot.
We give away a hell of a lot to local people as well, so.
That segues us nicely into that. Let's question Vicki.
So today we're going to get to the bones of what type of which
you are and hopefully what type of person you are as well.
I mean, we've all come to this podcast and I'm probably I'm
just bloody everywhere. I feel like at this point
everybody knows. But but I guess there's elements
of well, we'll see. I think Vicki and I are both
nervous about Anon's questions because she's been very excited
about this episode. So, Anon, do you want to ask
Vicky the first question? Yes, please.
Did you have or do you have any fear connected to witchcraft?
At all. I use a lot of folk craft.
It's very, very traditional and the stuff that is a bit more in
depth I'm really used to doing it's, it's not something new
that I've gone into. There was fear to start off with
and I think that actually been a little bit nervous sometimes
just makes you a little bit more aware and that's actually not a
bad thing. You should always be pushing
yourself. So so.
Navigate that then when you were younger with a little bit of
that fear, was it a case of, you know, no, continue to do this,
I've got this or did you seek support from family or?
I was seen, yeah. So I was seen through it when I
was much younger, and I don't mean child, but when I was much
younger, sort of late teens, early 20s, I found it very, very
difficult. I pick up on spirit a lot.
I wouldn't say I'm a medium because that isn't where I go
with things. However, I do tend to dream
certain dreams and I do pick up on spirit a lot and I wasn't
comfortable comfortable with that.
And so I was taught by an aunt how to block that out and I was
actually protected until I was ready.
So and then it was just a case of gently going into it with a
little bit of guidance, so. I've got a question about that,
actually. So you must be psychic.
So you've spoken previously about your experiences with
hearing a voice when your husband was very unwell.
Before. So what was your first
experience with the spiritual realm?
I must have been probably about 3 or 4 years old and I would see
people who were in the house who I thought were normal.
They weren't pretend friends. I would see who'd been there
before. I would just say, oh, so and so
is here. The old man's here.
Yeah, yeah, I would see people. I would hear people that I must
have been 3:00 or 4:00-ish. Reminds me of six cents.
I see dead people. It is.
It was a little bit I see dead. I didn't know they were dead at
the time. I thought they were rounded up.
I couldn't work out why other people didn't see them.
And did you talk to other people at the time and say to your
parents or your? Sibling.
I thought it was totally normal. Oh.
Do you see I see that guy over there, see him waving at us?
Yeah, the interesting thing is. Being weird again.
It was, well, the interesting thing is my sister used to do it
as well. Her earliest example was that
she saw somebody walking towards her in a car park and then just
completely disappear, just fade out, just disappear.
So, yeah, we were both our sisters were very much like it.
Yeah. That's.
So cool, I've never really had experiences like that, so you
don't need to ask me that question.
It's not my most comfortable thing in the world, but what?
Talking about it or? Generally do it.
I'm used to it now. I am used to it now so I just
have a chat with them. That's fine, but it did take me
a long time to get used to it. Yeah.
And I think we can put blockers up, can't we?
I know. I know specific people and I
think I do the same as well because I go actually I'm not,
I'm not open to that level of communication.
But if I if I wanted to be, I know it's possible, but you've
always just been accepting of it, it sounds like.
Mostly until it became uncomfortable and then yes,
absolutely protected myself from it, blocked it out and then sort
of came back more into it a little bit.
Just being a little bit older and understanding a bit better,
really. I've got a very serious question
to ask. OK, if your craft had a warning
label, what would it? What would it say?
ADHD. I'm a bit skizzy sometimes.
It's a bit all over the place A. Bit all over the place.
Yeah, morning. It can be a bit all over the
place. I love that.
When, when do you, when do you then Vicky, feel like your most
witchy self? When you're not even trying
usually. When I'm painting or I'm in the
garden, that's my me time. That's my I, that's who I am.
Or when I'm writing, actually these days, But yeah, yeah.
So when I'm, when I'm doing something creative, that's what
I'd say. If I'm creating something,
working with the land, creating something from nothing, that's
my probably my my worst, my worst, No, my most, my most, my
worst, my worst, my most witchy time.
But this, this part of the year must be your favorite time then,
because. You love it.
Yeah, absolutely. You love it.
Spring must be your time. The listeners may associate you
as the green witch, someone who was drawn to nature.
Do you ask for permission when collecting or harvesting plants
for workings? And if you do, how do you
respond if they say no? Oh, I like this.
The answer is yes, I do. And I do that with the
vegetables I grow as well. Actually.
Always have a little chat with them first.
Always ask permission and you pick up on whether they want to
or not. Does that make sense?
They're sort of, they'll either be quite happy to or not.
If they say no, that's absolutely fine.
Then then they get left. So if there is a tomato that
doesn't want to be picked, this is really weird, isn't it?
But if there is a tomato that doesn't want to be picked,
that's absolutely fine. It will stay on the plant.
But whenever you say that, you have to remember you're already
speaking to weirdos. Like no, it's not weird.
But it does sound really. Weird.
We are weirdos. Mr. How would you try and
describe that as some for somebody to try and understand?
Is it learning what your yes or your no is?
Is it tuning into your intuition?
Is it touching the plant and feeling some kind of energy?
How would how would you try and define that for someone very
new? OK, so I always touch the plant
when I ask. I always touch the plant.
And what I look for, for a yes is a very settled, very calm
feeling in my chest. If it feels janky at all, if it
feels like I don't know I suddenly get distracted, or it
feels slightly uneasy, then that's my no.
And that is so important. Actually, I, I do teach this in,
I've done it a number of times in courses I've done on Patreon
in my 1 to ones, because this is one of those things that people
really struggle to understand, like what their yes and no is
like Anon said, but also what that feels like.
And it's about like you're articulated coming back to how
it feels in your body. So for you it's the chest and
it's like a junky feeling, like you said, but for somebody else,
it could be, you could feel it in your head or in your stomach
or in your back. So understanding what that means
for you, Is it in your yes or no?
Absolutely. And that and that'll be
different for every single person.
But because you're an old witch, you know exactly where.
It is. I'm very old.
I'm very old, yes. Yeah.
For me, you know, for me, if it feels tingly, janky, I'm
starting to look at other stuff or I'm getting distracted, or I
just get a bit of an uneasy feeling about it if it's a no.
I don't think I've ever even heard the word janky before, but
I want to use it. Use.
It's a great word it. Is it's a great word.
OK, I'm sorry, but if you could only work with one plan for the
rest of your practice, what would it be and why?
Oh. Do I only get one?
This is the name of the game, one plan for the rest of your
practice. But why?
I think I might know the answer to this.
Ivy. I don't know the answer to that.
Did you think I was going to say Wormwood?
I like Wormwood. Well, a lot.
I thought rue, and then I thought you might say Moss.
OK, well if I was allowed more, I probably rue.
I love. When would I love?
I love. You like I think.
But I don't give just, I think Ivy.
If I had to only pick 1 Ivy, very boundary setting.
It's got a lovely energy towards me.
It really calms me down. Yeah, it's great.
And it's Evergreen. It's Evergreen.
It stays there. It's all over the place.
Can't get rid of it. Can't.
Get rid. Of it.
Oh yes, yes it is. I didn't know that, but it does
make sense. Yeah, and it's in my little sort
of bit, but I, I mean, I don't really work with fairies, but
they they do have a have a witch area and Ivy's all around it so.
Yeah I don't work with fairies either but more recently fairies
aren't popping up but the me having to learn about fairies
seems to be more prevalent so I'm blaming and on for this to
feel like she's sending them to teachers stuff.
Yes, there's. A witchy.
There's a witchy laugh again. No, I'll only send them if I get
permission. You both know that.
Well, something's trying to drag me into my education of fairies,
that's for sure. They don't listen to me anyway.
I I couldn't understand why. I've got no clear understanding
of that. So you have spoken quite a lot
so far about little facts that we didn't know, but give the
listeners a fact about you that we are not aware of about your
craft. About my craft.
That you feel comfortable in speaking about.
I think it's probably that I work with.
I work in balance, but I'm very comfortable working on the, for
want of a better word, the darker side of things.
So I wouldn't say I'm a bird witch or a black witch or
anything else. I keep it very balanced.
However, the slightly more umphy side of things I'm very
comfortable with. Yeah, yeah, I will use it when I
need to and it doesn't bother me at all.
And I love that because I, I guess from the outside, people
look at your practice and go right there.
She is planting away, working with plant energy, being a
guidance and a teacher. But the, the reality is we've
all got private parts of our practice, whether we call them
dark or black. It's really difficult.
It's very difficult to understand.
Like you say, there's another side to witchcraft that you're
quite comfortable in sitting with because you've been doing
it for long enough. Is is really interesting?
Yeah, and it's. Also private, right?
It's also a part of your private practice.
Yeah. And I think when I'm on social
platforms, I don't generally, I wouldn't necessarily go and
teach that because you don't know who's newer or remembering
or coming into the craft. And so that would be
irresponsible of me just to go here.
Let's go do that. Do you think you'd ever teach
it? Yes.
So with the right person on a one to one basis, I could
probably help or I'd not. I could probably help.
I could probably be comfortable mentoring if that makes.
Sense, yeah, but why is there? Why is there hesitation?
Is it because it's personal, or is it because you you'd have to
really trust that that practitioner understands what
they're working with. Both, both #1 a lot of what I do
is personal and #2 yeah, I'd, I'd like to know, I'd like to be
able to trust that somebody. Is anyone ever actually ready?
Probably not, but I'd like to know that they'd actually have
some respectful understanding of where this could lead to so they
don't go just fully down it so they keep that balance.
How did you how did you get into that?
Was it self education or did you get walked through it as well?
A little bit of both, a little bit of both.
I was given some of the basics, I was spoken to about some of it
and then it's off you go sunshine, go learn so.
Many mistakes. Loads.
Absolutely. Yes, it was completely perfect
all the time, never went. Wrong.
But isn't that interesting that you wouldn't want to?
You wouldn't want to guide somebody unless they were ready,
but you had to learn those lessons in order to be as
proficient as you are. I'm not psychoanalysing you and
I don't mean to, but just. Not that I'm a control freak,
no. No, it's just interesting.
Like you'd go, oh, I don't want to teach somebody because just
in case they're not ready. But you weren't ready.
I wasn't ready. Look how this made you.
Yeah. I think, and I think that's the
thing, isn't it? You just go through the bait.
All you can really do is go through the basics and maybe
answer questions when they come up.
But at the end of the day, if something goes wrong, you're
you're going to be the one that has to get yourself out of it.
Yeah. So when I say ready, I think
it's more maybe are they ready to not completely freak to get
themselves out of something rather than ready?
Are you ready to learn that does that?
Yeah, that makes more sense. I think you'd be an amazing
mentor or teacher. You.
You've just got that air about you.
Yeah, I agree. Like a lot of patience for
someone. Oh, thank you.
I think that's really nice. I mean, don't get me wrong, I've
mentored artists that, so you have to have a lot of patience
and not tell people exactly what to do as well.
I've never really thought about doing that for the craft.
Isn't that crazy? Yeah, like, I find that, yeah,
really. I mean, I obviously my, my
spiritual path is all about leaning into helping others
find, find their way. Like that's, that's where, where
I am at the moment. That's where spirits leading me.
So I would find that crazy because it's, it feels really
natural to me. But maybe now is not the right
time, but maybe there will come a time.
Maybe when the book is out and published and maybe I'll get
time. Exactly.
OK, next question. Where do you personally draw the
line in witchcraft? On what?
There's a line. There's a line.
Is there a line for everything? I don't know, Miss Balance, I
was going to say well. My line is balance, so the line
line on anything just keeping a sensible level head on most
things. No, but is so is there.
This is so. Difficult.
But is it a no though? Do you just got?
Actually, no, there is no line. I'm telling you now, my mind has
gone so bad without sacrificing babies, where's the line?
And Betty is like, no, there's no line.
I don't see any line. I would go very careful with
anybody underage of what they could actually do know and what
direction they might be going in.
We get way too serious now with babies.
I know it's just. But no, as far as I'm concerned,
there isn't a lie. Oh.
Wow, oh wow. And on and on.
I've got no doubt in my mind that you have got no line
either. Well, I'm not going to sacrifice
a baby. Well, that wasn't the line I was
thinking. Where are we going with this I.
Know good grief OK have you got a question Let's get away from
dead sacrificing of. Yes.
Now this is a question. Wow, right.
This is a question for both of you.
Actually. I'm going to spin it up a bit,
but Victor gets to go first. I do see GAIL look at me, then
the side eye she gave me. So who is your favorite witch
and why? My favorite witch me because I'm
perfect. I I don't have one.
I think there is a lot of good practitioners out there and we
can learn from so many different sources.
I don't have a favorite. That's like asking who's your
favorite child. I've got 1.
If you've got one. Well, I, I don't think I've so
when we're talking about favorite witch like historical
or modern, it's so hard because I feel like I learned from
everywhere. Like there's people I started
learning from in the beginning and then reading from hit like
books as well. There's so many practitioners
that aren't even online and their books like are just
incredible. Oh, that's such a tough
question. It is really difficult, isn't
it? Because it.
Could be fiction. Oh, you like Sabrina the Teenage
Witch? It.
Could Could it be fiction? Yeah, it can be fiction.
Mustard, right? I'm picking a fictional.
Right, I'm picking a fiction one then, because.
I know I want to be grub bags and if anybody's old enough to
know who grub bags is, that is me.
I will. I will have Sally out of
Practical Magic because she makes soaps out of herbs.
Lush, do you want to know mine? Yes.
Madame Mim from Arthur, King Arthur, remember it.
I see, but you already had that prepared.
Maybe who? Yeah, I went straight to sort of
online teachers stroke authors of.
So many. Actually, there are so many.
And it doesn't matter how long you've been practising your
craft, you're always going to be learning something.
Yeah. There's somebody new all of the
time as well or something new because I don't, like I've said
before, I don't there's no practitioner online or in in in
life that I follow 100%. Everybody that I meet has got a
different way of looking at certain aspects of it and I love
that because of the individuality.
But I take something from all over the place.
Absolutely, and even if I disagree that with them in the
sense of that wouldn't fit into my practice, I've still learnt
something. So this is the word you keep or
cut garden plants or plants found naturally in nature.
Cut the garden ones. Next one not magic or puppets.
Puppets. I have to cut puppets.
Now I'm not sure about the next one because I actually don't
know. So the the sun or the moon?
Cut the moon. Oh.
I know. And last one, would you prefer
to be solo or community? Cut the community because I've
always practised solo anyway but I like my community so.
They were. Hard choices, Hard choices.
So, anonymous, which it is your turn to be questioned.
So let's see then. What would your familiar be if
it wasn't an animal? An Angel.
Oh, I did not expect that answer.
I thought dragon fairy. I was going there to go a.
Dragon is an animal. You know what I meant.
The awkwardness of the anonymous It's because we can't see your
face. I know you get all.
You get all sassy and feisty behind that camera.
OK, an Angel. Angel OK, my question What is
something in your craft that's small but that makes you
ridiculously happy? My inner child.
Nice. I don't think you're in a
child's that small. I think it's quite giant.
It's still. Yeah, I don't think it's that
small. Just putting it out there.
You've got a giant in a child. Yeah, it's true.
OK, if your practice had a smell, what would it be?
Flowers. Which flower?
Wild Meadow flowers.
Oh lovely. Do you know what?
I just had a whiff of that as you said it then.
You had a slight. Waft A waft of your practice was
something that you believed early on in your practice that
now you would give a bit of a side eye to.
There is this idea that there is a very dark or black form of
witchcraft. And you believed that early on?
When I was very, very young, yeah.
And I, I think, you know, I, I mentioned it with Nixie before,
you know, growing up in a small Welsh town, there wasn't much in
the local library anywhere near connected to the Craft.
If it was, it was primarily either Wiccan based, Wicca
based, or it was about people's idea of what the occult or
Satanism kind of is. Was, you know, as a young
teenager, I knew deep down that this can't be right.
It didn't sit with me. I didn't believe it.
I did question it because in all walks of life you get good and
you get bad people. Anyway, regardless, in any form
of religion, you will get good and bad people.
And I think, you know, some people can use that sense of
self inflation. I can't think of the right word
of of like to abuse power and May and maybe there were people
like that Once Upon a time that abused their power, but I don't
believe in it. Yeah, something you've grown
into Yeah comes. Back to their balance again,
doesn't it? I know you guys ribbed me for
balance, but it does come back to the balance again.
Oh. I definitely, I definitely don't
rib you. I think it's just all about
sometimes things take time as well to understand.
So I think it's valid to have views that change.
And I'm I'm so I cannot wait for like 10 years time to ask myself
that question again. Go what's changed?
What's changed in 10 years? Do you know what I mean?
Because it does, doesn't it? Like our viewpoints get altered
and not necessarily not necessarily the big stuff like
worrying about dark magic, but maybe smaller things that I
believe now will be completely altered in 10 years time.
I think so. I think so.
On that note, Anon, what's a pattern?
A repeating pattern that you've had to break more than once and
you've not listened to yourself the first time?
Like in the Bad man for a relationship, picking someone
that needs fixing. No, but do you do shadow work on
that? I don't call it shadow, I call
it reflection. I I think that it's a very
honest and real answer. I've, I haven't grown up
thinking, Oh, I know I'm going to be a single mum of two kids.
What what a wonderful idea. But I've always had this very
caring nature to me. I've always been the kind of
feeder, you know, I've always been the, the carer, I'll I'll
fix you kind of person. And without me realizing, I
think that my energy or my aura has shone for the wrong person.
And I've not willingly thought, oh, I can fix this person.
I've never met someone thinking I'll fix you.
But in a way my inner mother, I guess, comes out, my inner
nurturer comes out and sees something in them that perhaps
no one else has seen before. And maybe I'm going to give them
that chance. And I think that is absolutely
interwoven in my craft as well. It's like me working with the
fairies. I've heard so much negativity
and about other aspects to my craft, you know, very negative
connotations with everything. I go in as an equal, I go in on
a balanced ground, you know, and I think as I've grown, I've
learnt my own boundaries over time.
But I genuinely feel that was my lesson to learn.
And do you think you have learned that getting very
personal here? No, because.
But not. But you're human.
But you're human, right. And that's the message.
Like, as much as you know, there's no healed version of
witchcraft. Nobody's there and gone.
Yeah. Figured all out.
Fuck me. There we are.
We're the pinnacle of you know, and that's that's such an
important message. So I can't wait to meet your
next fuck up of a partner. We've got your back.
We'll let you know. It's going to be a Viking.
Watch this space.
OK? Anon, if your magic had a side
effect, what would it be? Uncontrollable laughing like
probably. Laughing.
That's a good answer. I thought he was going to go
shitting glitter. No, I'll keep that for you.
OK, talking of shitting glitter, Oh.
What? Is your most toxic trait within
your craft. I think you both know.
Oh. My God.
I am very oh, this is going to sound so fucking egotistical,
but I'm going to say it because you've both seen it.
I'm very, very good at remote working.
You are. Fantastic at remote working and.
For people who don't understand what that means, you're not
remote working from home, right? It's remote spiritual
connections. Yeah, and I like showing up in
people's dreams. I.
Like. Showing up well Vicky did tell
me about a personal dream she had about her husband before we
went, before we recorded, before you joined us so hopefully well,
I don't think it was her right I.
Don't think so. You're going to turn up as me.
Bold and loud, I'm here. I am.
Right in my Unicorn. So what is So what is that
called for people who haven't heard of it before?
How does that, how does that work?
Is it like layman's? I mean, you don't have to go
into lots of detail, but so people understand what you're
talking about. There's a few different ways
that I like remote working #1 would be in the astral realm or
within dream working, where I work with my fetch and I work
with my spiritual team. I also have a server tour within
the astral and spiritual, sorry the the dream world and with
astral, sorry with remote. I can be like this now talking
to you both and I will work with several different spirits and I
mean work. It's a collaboration.
I do not demand, I don't command that they do something.
That's not how I work. I'll explain the situation to
them. We'll come to an agreement.
A lot of the time they're biting at the bit anyway and they will
go and do what they can. I'm trying to be really polite,
yeah. But The thing is and on
basically had you helped me out a few weeks ago, didn't you?
Because I couldn't see what on earth was going on.
I was completely blocked up and we weren't going to why or
whatever it was. But Anon's workings on this are
really good. Really.
I mean, you're so good at it. You are.
You're so good. I was very.
Grateful not me you have to thank though, is it?
Well, no, we know who we have to thank, but.
No, but both of you have got like gifts that you don't
utilize for your own purposes. But you're not out there sharing
those gifts or teaching others about how to use it.
So maybe that's something that you can think about, maybe not.
Maybe it is for personal use, personal practice?
And I think sometimes I'm just going to jump in here, but
sometimes, or maybe I'm wrong, I'm going to ask or not.
Do you think sometimes you can be so blocked up with your own
goings on that you can't see what's going on?
And therefore asking a friend? So I asked Anon, could you give
me a hand for this? And she's there.
She's there. She's like, Yep, I've got it for
you. And the minute she said what was
going on, I knew exactly. I mean, she didn't even have to
tell me what was going on. I was nodding a way going, oh,
that's what it is. And I didn't even know half.
Well, no, that's why your spirit team helped you.
And Vicky's done the same for me in the past as well.
I was too close to something. I'm like, look, can your mother
do some divination for me? And you did that.
And that's, that's the amazing thing about community, right?
Yeah. Even though Vicky's, Vicky's cut
her community, remember? But.
That's not fair. Why the witchcraft space really
annoys you? Honestly, my honest, unfiltered
ansibia is when somebody on social media will put out their
opinion on something they haven't asked for anyone for
their opinion on it, and then other people decide it's within
their right to repost a person's video, be very disrespectful.
I think it's one thing if you're a person on any form of social
media and say, right, you know, I need to do a bit of DIY,
right? I'm looking for advice.
Is this the right nail? Is this the right hammer?
And so on and so forth. You're asking for opinions,
you're asking for advice. We're not always going to agree
with people. We're not always going to agree
with everybody's opinion out there.
But when you come on social media, you are releasing it
potentially to the world. And then when somebody comes
back and deliberately uses that video to be disparaging on
someone's character, I absolutely despise that
behaviour and I'm sorry they're not welcome in my community.
Yeah I understand what you're saying and I think even more so
in our community like witchcraft space.
The whole premise of being a witch is to be accepting of
others beliefs like and and social media is so poor at
showing that side of it. I could not agree more.
There's so many people ready to, so many witches, in fact, ready
to pull other witches down. And that makes no logical sense
to me whatsoever. Is it for social media?
Is it for clout? Is it for the drama?
But whatever it is, I just wish more of those witches, before
they did that or made judgement, would question why because
that's the whole point. And we're not going down the
shadow work route route. But it is just about what did we
say in the last episode, Victoria, I think you were
saying, knowing yourself, why aren't these people knowing
themselves enough? I feel angry for you now and on,
but I know what you're saying. It is really frustrating that
people don't believe themselves enough.
I'll tell you what, I find it massively frustrating as well
because I have no qualms whatsoever with everybody having
I practice differently. I have a different opinion or a
different experience of this, but it doesn't necessarily make
them correct. And to push the correctness
somebody's wrong because this is how I do it.
That's just ridiculous. Yeah, now we're all angry,
right? Keep or cut, Keep or cut, Quick
round of keep or cut. Then for the anonymous witch,
quick answers. No thinking Tarot or Oracle.
Oracle protection or banishing. Banishing.
Spirits or ancestors? Spirits.
Unicorns or fairies? Oh no, no, no answer.
They'll hear you. I understand.
I understand that they will hear you.
Speak to me again. Oh OK, is it my turn?
GAIL, it's your turn, right? Let me get comfortable on them
bitches of Eastwick. Right then, GAIL.
Yes. Why did you choose the phrase
The Witch next Door? So for me, it's about breaking
down the stigmatism surrounding the word witch.
I feel really passionately about that.
And that sounds like something I'm reading off of a piece of
paper because it's something I say over and over again.
And actually my mum asked me this question recently, like why
did you say Gayle the witch next door?
Because there's just somebody who's next door practicing
witchcraft and that's OK. Like it's normal.
And actually this leans, I was in the office last week.
So if any of my colleagues listen to this one specific
colleague has only just found out we've got a podcast.
So I hope he hears this. But anyway, we were start
chatting and and I said we're calling Bob.
I said, oh, Bob. I said, did you know I've got a
podcast and social media? He said, Oh yeah.
He said, no, I didn't know that. He said, but I did know that you
were a witch and I said, why are you whispering the word?
What? He said, I didn't think you
wanted people to know. It's like, for fuck's sake, Bob,
I said, let me go. Oh, you're gay or oh, you're
like, so I was just like, and this is so then I started to get
into this conversation again. And this is exactly why the word
which means wise woman or not wise woman, wise person.
I don't, I don't mean to categorize it in agenda, but you
know, wise people, I believe everybody is already that.
It's just whether you choose to reclaim the word.
So it's a very long answer to a very short question.
Why GAIL the witch next door? I just want to break down the
stigma. I want it to be as normal as my
next door neighbor, Josie next door.
She's got some herbs I can have. She's got some blue candles
because I run out of blue ones. You know, we're all living a
witchcraft life. That's what I my aim is to be
and do. I like that.
I like that because basically pretty much everybody has a
witch next door, don't they? They just may not know it, but
you'd do it. They might whisper witch, witch.
I can't see him doing that. Bob.
His name's not Bob. I was just like, for the love
of. I didn't know if you wanted
people to know you're a witch. GAIL, what's something that you
avoid because you know it would force change?
Do you know what there's not? There's not something.
There's probably some things like regularly I have to recheck
in with myself. There's a lot of, there's a lot
of emotions. I'm definitely, definitely.
We're having a good day today. I'm definitely still going
through quite a period of grief. I mean, as I said in my opening
statement, so there's a lot of release work, banishing work
that I should be doing, and I avoid it because it's heavy.
It's really fucking heavy and I'm great.
Like I said, I'm I'm really good at leading people through those
journeys themselves and understanding what we need to
shared and get rid of in order actually to open up like
possibilities. I can talk about it all day
because I believe in it and I know it works.
But when it comes to my own personal circumstances, a lot of
that release work that I avoid because it would it would have a
considerable shift in me. And I think sometimes there's
elements that I know if I release too much, it's also
going to shed away the stuff that I've been holding on to for
too long. And that's relationships in my
life probably especially with family.
I don't think they'll be listening to this.
But if you do, what can I do? But there's, but there's a lot,
right, that we hold on to. And yeah, releasing some of that
stuff and I do do it regularly, but I think it's an ongoing
process, honestly. I'll tell you what I mean.
We all have something, at least one thing, that we should all
release and let go of. And we all hang on to it, don't
we? Well, we do because because it
feels comfortable and it, you know, and that's part of my
humanness, which I've learned to accept as well.
I accept that there's flaws within me that are just meant to
be my life lessons. But some of it, I guess, without
going too heavy like that release work, it just feels like
I'm letting go of what I'm holding on to so tightly at the
moment. All of my sadness and bitterness
and anger and any part of the what we would consider negative
aspects of myself are all tied into losing my brother, quite
frankly. So I don't want to let it go,
Vic. No.
And that's, I think that's OK at the moment.
I think that's. OK, at the moment there's my
anger coming out again. I don't want to what?
Did that go? But the human part of it, that's
a big part of our practice, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah. It's a huge part and we do have
to respect that as well. I guess that's the growth in me
as well, accepting that I'm OK holding on to it, but I know
that would create a significant shift and I'd probably be living
in my shed permanently if I was willing to.
If I was willing to do the willing to let it all go or a
van, that would probably be me. Van life, van life.
I'd have dreadlocks, hessian skirt, just permanently.
Hopefully none of my colleagues are actually listening to this.
Of course I would never give up my real job.
It means too much to me. What do you do if you think one
of your spells or workings has not worked?
Well, I do. You know what more often I was
going to say More often than not, probably not.
More often than not. But there's a lot of times when
spell work's done and I recognize I've not put the
emotion, the effort, the timing. So I will question it.
But I do just let it go. I know it's a favorite phrase of
yours, Anon. Let it go, Let it go.
But I will. I won't harbor anything or redo
a spell because I am quite a correspondence girl as I've said
before. So if I've timed something
specifically for then and not put the energy effort in, it's
going to have the desired outcome.
I'll just. I will let that go as well
because the other thing for my practice is that I don't ever
put timings on spells. I'm never doing anything with
it. So if I don't feel like it was
right in the moment, even if I just let it go because it could
be a year later. I've done spell work probably 18
months two years ago. That's happening now, which is
quite visible. I love it.
I love it when I speak to people at work and they go, what do you
mean you're a witch? And I go, well, does anything,
does anything look like it's not going well for me right now?
Just just just say it. But.
That. Was that was like like I said
about 18 months two years ago when I put very specific, I laid
the foundation for that. So but I never expected it.
I mean, of course you want everything to happen tomorrow,
don't you? But I know it takes time, but I
knew I put the effort in. But if there was something now,
especially more lately and I can resonate with this question
because I'm so fucking busy all of the time.
If I was to do any spell work right now, I'm not in the right
head space unless it was something that needed doing
specifically. But there's been nothing.
But there's been nothing lately that needs to.
But yeah, right now I'd be rushing anything, so I just
wouldn't hold on to it. What's something that you think
people overcomplicate in witchcraft?
Everything No, but they overcomplicate everything and,
and the biggest question I get is like that fear of starting
and you know that I'm a I've done a few videos about
protection magic and breaking down the barrier because what
people see is fear. There's a fear based.
Oh, you need to protect yourself before you do that spell.
Well, what does that mean? What am I protecting myself
from? And when you're very new to
practicing witchcraft, the only thing that you need to be
fearful of is yourself breaking down the barriers to actually
starting in the 1st place. Because you're not going to be
doing insane spirit work or hedge walking or, you know,
communicating with different deities.
Or you shouldn't be anyway. Because there's lots of things
that you need to learn and understand before you ever go
down that path. And if you do, then you'll learn
that lesson very quickly. But the overcomplication is fear
of starting at all. We put so many barriers in the
way. Just do the work, educate
yourself, but don't overcomplicate it.
It doesn't need to be these big rituals.
It's starting small. It really is.
But everybody wants the excitement of what witchcraft
can bring. And it is it the life once
you're living an an authentically lived witchcraft
practice, it is exciting because you know, we we all know we have
the power to change anything, to do anything, to be anything that
we want to be. And in the beginning you think,
right, that means you've got to do all the rituals, but it
doesn't actually living authentically.
Now with me going out for a walk, me doing my ground in
practice, maybe a bit of meditation or a bit of yoga,
stirring my intention into my coffee and all of that.
When you first start, sounds like the boring bits, but
they're the important bits. Yeah, they are.
They're they're the parts that they're the parts that's the
daily stuff in and out all the time.
And it it almost looks just like a life habit.
I do, you know what? I had a 1 to 1 before we
recorded this podcast with somebody I've been working with
for quite a long time. We've gone through different
levels and I know she'll be listening to this.
Can she listen to the podcast where we started to where we're
at now? And she used a phrase today
about it's just part of my life. And I said I absolutely love
that because that's what we've been striving to achieve.
We can still focus on different aspects and we're going to look
at some glamour magics. It's not something I talk about
very often. Just to say you're which
witchcraft? Witchcraft isn't a crap.
Let me try and rephrase. This isn't something you do is
something you are. And that's exactly where she is
now. You are a witch.
It's witchcraft. Yeah, I love I love that.
And I think that's that's the hopefully what all three of us
really try to do with this podcast is make it livable,
understandable day-to-day rather than fear based.
Yeah, I tell you what, since we've been doing this podcast, I
have had to break down what I do on a daily basis.
That's just normal for me to be able to talk about it, to be
able to say what is it I'm actually doing?
I've been doing it. It's not such a long time to,
you know, put that out there a really long time.
It's just, it's such, so much part of of who I am, how I
behave, how my day is that when we know we've got a topic coming
up, they think, oh, what is it I actually do?
Because I think I'm just going around my daily life, you know?
Yeah, whereas I've been where I've been doing social media is
so wildly for the last 18 months at least I've got used to that a
little bit like breaking it down because I have all of these one
to one clients. But I guess for you and Anon,
because it's been lived your whole life.
Like I love that question Anon asked you earlier about how do
you know whether the plant wants to be picked or not?
Because that must be really tricky to articulate, because
you've never had to. You just know.
I just know. And that's such a terrible
answer to give anybody, isn't it?
I just know it's it is what it is.
So obviously you don't have to go into detail.
Oh. Fuck.
So it's a bit of a two-part so #1 do you work with deities, and
if so, have they remained the same throughout your pathway, or
do you meander and work with several dependent on what's
needed? I I love this question because
it's not something I often talk about freely.
I know. So when I, when I very first
started, so I guess the answer is yes, I do work with deities,
but not maybe in the way that it's portrayed on social media.
So I don't venerate, I don't have like patron goddesses or,
or gods and I don't have alter spaces dedicated to deities.
That's not the way that I work with with deities.
So I work with archetypal energy and I educate myself fully on
what a deity or what that deity represents, and then I'll use
that within my magic to unblock or bring in or tap into some of
the energy that they represent. So in the very start of my
practice, I started working with Ganesha, but that was before I
think I was even a witch. So that was more when I was just
spiritual and doing spiritual activities.
And I really resonated with that Hindu archetype because of the
road unblocking energy. So, and I actually one of my
very early Oracle decks is Ganesha and I love it.
I still love what that deity represents, but it's not part of
my practice anymore. But I don't necessarily work
with that deity anymore. And then, and then I meandered
and I went into Medusa land. So I went from Hindu to Greek.
So interestingly, I mean you guys can see and I've got on my
window here, I've got a whole row of Ganesh's and then I've
got a whole row of Medusa heads. So actually I've got a giant
Medusa head as well that my mum brought me so and I don't work
with Medusa anymore. That was very short lived, but
it it was needed at the time to give a boost, I guess.
But so in terms of longer term deities, and one that I've
worked with maybe now for two or three years, but again, in the
archetype of weight is the Morgan.
I have a whole thigh tattoo of the Morrigan and that fierce
warrior archetypal energy. Actually, I just put on the
Morrigan incense as well for this.
I grabbed it and I haven't done that in ages.
Or maybe maybe that archetypal energy came through knowing that
I was going to bring it up today.
In terms of consistency, she is the archetype that I work with
the most because there are three, three aspects to her that
I can tap into. And then more recently, like
very recently. So like I said, the Morrigan is
1. And then more recently I've
started not working with, but trying to understand, especially
as we were going through the winter months, the Kalia, the
old hag of winter, and that transition from winter into
spring. So I guess there's a meandering,
but it's not like true veneration work.
It's not. So when people ask me to talk
about deities, I can do that. But I think their ask is very
much how do I work and venerate and hold space and give
offerings? And that's not the type of work
that I do. Mine's much more educational,
historical folklore, tapping into the energy of what has
been, I guess, my view of deities.
All of our human energies are poured into that deity to create
an energy that then I can tap into as well.
Not necessarily a an actual being or an actual God or
goddess. And I know a lot of people will
not probably like that answer, but that's where I'm coming at
it from. Whereas things like spirits,
animals, trees, they feel much more real to me than maybe day
or Tuesday. I'm telling you, you're going to
be starting working with the fairies.
I know I can feel it. I'm not even kidding.
I was thinking that today walking the dog.
I was thinking that today. I thought, why is this keep
coming up? But it's it's that.
Do you know what it? Well, I know what it is.
It's because right now and again, there's there's two verge
that not everybody leans into this.
But Beltane for me is a very liminal thinning of the veil,
much like Sawan. So the fair is going.
Hello, GAIL. Hello.
I know they're doing that. Maybe.
Yeah, but they're also that dry ad as well.
I mean, I haven't spoken about this on the podcast before, but
you guys know there was a dryad following me because the woods
got chopped down where I walk and he'd been disrupted and felt
protective and I always feel him and he's, there's a bluebell
field there. And I posted a video the other
day and somebody spotted it and sent me a picture in my comments
of the she they put you're being watched.
And I was like, yes, I know I'm being watched 'cause it's the
dryad up in the tree. That's so cool.
And I know a dryad isn't fairies, but it is all of that
mysticism and like I said, the veil thinning at the moment, so
something's going on. What's the one thing, GAIL, that
you want people to really understand about you?
So in terms of what I want people to understand about me, I
guess with my craft, I, I don't generally I care what people
think about how I practice or what it looks.
Do you know what I mean exactly? It's like that.
I don't give a fuck what you think.
And I really cherish that about myself as well.
I love that I'm a point, I'm 47 this year where I literally do
not care what other people think.
I adore that, but in terms of the way that I would like people
to understand my practice, it's just that it's attainable
because I think there's so many practitioners out there and so
many new people finding and remembering themselves that like
that question you asked earlier, like what are people making
overcomplicated about the craft? I want to uncomplicated.
So if I wanted people to understand that, like it's just
an attainable way to live and harness and work and be that
that's what I want to do. But in terms of my craft, I
don't give a saying fuck what you all think.
That I what? That I talk to my bones don't
care. I click crystal skulls.
And I know you don't like crystals.
Vicky don't care. Well, I do care because I don't
know why you don't like crystals.
Well, it's not that I don't like them, you see, that was quite
nice. It's just I don't work with them
that much. I've got loads around because of
circumstances, not because I bought them.
They came to the house. Don't ask.
They are pretty though. Oh, this is really cold by the
way. That's why I'm.
Holding. They're very, very.
They are very pretty. They're very nice.
I just don't work with them that much.
I mean but actually but asking you to.
But do you 2 care what people think?
No, couldn't give a flying. No, I know, I know, I know
Anonymous doesn't because I mean Victoria.
I need one off social media for a little while but she is
posting videos this week of urine on candles.
Is that what I've missed? You've missed that.
Yeah. I mean, there's other stuff.
I have and I I'm going to go, I'm going to have to go on to
social media. The thing is if I go on there,
I'm going to start posting, which is what I need to do.
However, I have a more pressing thing going on just at this
moment. So that is taking priority.
So I will be back everybody, however.
Yeah, we're not keeping your hostage anywhere.
No, no I'm not locked up in it in the shed with the crystal
skulls and and bones and and taxidermy.
I am allowed out occasionally. However, I haven't been on
social media so I've missed what Anon has been getting up to.
Probably for the best. Ocean or forest?
Oh, oh, I'll have to cut the ocean.
Oh my God, that is so painful to say out loud.
Fire. Or water.
Fire. Oh no.
Oh no, I've said it. I'm cutting fire out my life.
Why control? Or surrender.
I'm cutting surrender. I need all the control.
With regard to spells, are you a Are you cutting out planning or
winging it? No, I'm going to have to cut out
winging because like I said earlier.
You need the. Control.
I need the planning. Yeah, and I know my spell's
going to work then because I put the effort into it.
Summer or autumn? Summer cutting summer not not
for now though. We're just this is how you have
it for now. No, just keep it for now because
we like the summers coming and. The last one, ritual or everyday
habit? Oh, cutting ritual.
Everyday, everyday, all day. I don't know if I answered right
now because my answers everything I answered was to
keep. Well, you've just go.
It doesn't matter though. I people cut.
Yeah, I don't think it matters. I don't.
So that wasn't so bad, was it, ladies?
So that segues us into Come Sit with us, our listener question
for this week. It comes from Michelle and
Verna, both on my Patreon. So they've asked, do we have any
hints and tips for meditation and visualization techniques if
you have a Fantasia? I literally cannot see anything
in my mind's eye when I try to meditate or visualize anything.
That is a right bugger when it comes to spell work.
Have you guys got any tips? Say I happen to be a meditation
guide just in the background. Oh, see, we didn't ask you that
question. No, I've got, I've got a whole,
a whole thing going on. So if you can't visualize, try
and feel your body. So feel the air coming in
through your nostrils, down the back of your throat and into
your chest and feel your body move from where it moves.
So does your chest move or does your stomach move?
If you can feel bedding or blankets or anything on top of
your legs or body, then what you can do is you can just
concentrate. I'm feeling it on my toes, I'm
feeling it on my ankles, up to my knees, up my legs.
But you're concentrating on the actual feeling, the sensation
that you're having. You could do that with running
water over your hands. You could do that with holding
heavy stones. Concentrate it on your actual
senses rather than trying to imagine what you can't see.
Great piece of advice and on have you got anything?
The only thing I would say is that for me I I find that kind
of distant gaze almost like a daydreamin helps.
So it might be doing your mundane tasks at home.
It might be, and I don't want to be stereotypical with this, but
folding the clothing or just wiping down the tables or the
kitchen surfaces. And it's not really thinking
about exactly what you're doing. It's just having something in
the background, whether it be some kind of music that you're
not really listening to. It could be the radio, nothing
that you're paying that much attention to.
And we all do it where we're sat in a crowded room or it we're in
a queue, we're on the bus, and we're just gazing at someone.
We're daydreaming at someone. And then all of a sudden we
think, Oh my gosh, I've just been staring at someone.
That's and I'm staring at the Vikings again.
My friends, come here. Come here.
But that I mean, that is, that is really good advice, really,
really good advice. And I do, can I just jump in
again and just say you can do what I would call walk in
meditations or action meditations.
You do not need to sit still. You do not need to lay down.
You can zone out on the things that you're doing and you can
still concentrate on. I don't know how, if you're
walking around, how does the sound of your feet sound to you?
Or you know, that again, it's that gazing thing that Elon was
saying, but just through a physical.
Yeah, and I've always done it. And I know not everybody runs,
but running, I always said, was my meditation.
Because when I'm running I have to concentrate on my breath.
I have to figure out where my feet are going to land.
So I'm completely coming out of my head and concentrating on the
moment that I'm how I'm feeling, how I'm breathing, how I'm
landing my feet. So it's very meditative for me.
Not always because sometimes I'm gasping for air, but but it can
be. But the only other point I would
add, and I don't know if this is always valid, but like smells as
well can be really meditative like which is why we have
incense, or you can use essential oils and things just
to concentrate on the smell. And you know, for me, I like to
visualize because I can like an oak tree or pine, but then also
using essential oils that smell like that can help if you can't
visualize it because then you can smell like that tree essence
as well and it can be really good.
I, I think what a lot of people get put off by, especially if
they have quite a busy mind, is this idea of your mind has to be
quiet and it's about actually getting to a point where you're
accepting, what am I going to have for tea?
What is actually that smell or I don't feel comfortable at the
minute or what? What did she say to me last
week? Accept those thoughts coming in,
acknowledge them, and then bring your focus back on whatever else
that you can, whether it be gazing in the distance, whether
it be smelling that scent, whether it be like Victoria was
discussing about feeling the actual body in the breath and
the materials and the textures around you.
It's it's not about being silent.
If you are trying to do a ground in meditation and you happen to
be laying down instead of the sheets on top of you that you're
feeling, maybe just for yourself, sink in to the surface
that you're on. But do it up or down your body
or go up your body and then come down your body and just
recognise where your skin, where you're, you know, where the
weight of you is on the surface that you're at because that will
ground you. Yeah, my weight definitely
grounds me. I can feel it everywhere.
Thank you for listening to Between 3 Witches Witchcraft in
Plain Sight. Unbelievably, we have come to
the end of season 1, so make sure you sign up and follow to
hear when we return in just a few short weeks because we're
going to continue with our usual format.
But we will be releasing this on video too, so you'll see our
beautiful faces, but obviously not the anonymous witch who will
continue to stay in her anonymity until next time.
May your practice meet you exactly where you are.