Welcome to Between Three Witches, where we talk about
witchcraft in plain sight. Everyday magic lived honestly,
and it's hosted by three witches.
Me, GAIL, the witch next door. Me, Vicky, the really green
witch. And Mia Anon.
The anonymous, which we all walk different paths with different
levels of experience, but we share a deep respect for the
craft as it is actually practiced and not the dramatized
version that people expect. In today's episode, we ask a
really big question. How do we genuinely connect with
our ancestors and our spirits without the nonsense?
And this question was from one of our listeners on my Patreon,
Diane. And it's such a good question.
We wanted to do a whole podcast about it.
So before we dive into that, how have we all been since our last
podcast and on what have you been up to?
How are you? Good.
Apart from my urine infection, no, I'm good.
I know on antibiotics it's blissful, but no, I've had a
lovely relaxing couple of days spending it with family.
It's been lovely. You can hear that I've been
burning the candle at both ends. So I've had a really good week,
but I was out last night, so we're going to have my male
version of my voice for this podcast today.
But yeah, so it might start creaking a bit as we get as we
go through. But now I've been really good,
really, really busy. As always, the real life works
taking over at the moment, which is a little bit boring, but very
incredible. It's very important.
So I need to keep plugging away at it these things.
Are going to be done, haven't they?
Exactly what have you been up to, Victoria?
Well, loads of real life stuff, loads of real life stuff.
And then on top of it banging out loads of information,
information and illustrations. Been banging out loads of.
Illustrations. Ready for the PDF so all of my
spare times doing that at the moment.
I absolutely am blown away by your illustrations that you've
been sending out. I know anonymous as as well,
yeah. Beautiful.
So amazing. And for anybody listening, make
sure you go over to Vicky's Patreon where you can see all of
that as well and access it because it's, it's free as well,
Right, Victoria, I know you've got some tears coming.
Yeah, I've got some tears coming, but for the moment
they're free. I want free access, and that
does come across like it has less value because it's free and
it's that perceived value thing. However, I am really be aware
that not everybody can afford exclusive artwork basically.
So it's nice for me to be able to have give some information,
have some artwork, get your Grimwells going and then I can
stop putting the paid tears in for those who can afford it.
But the free one will always have something there for
everybody. Yeah, but you also put an awful
lot of work into that. This isn't like you say, just
this is an illustration that you've created and put your
effort and energy into. So yeah, it's it's amazing.
And yeah, I'm really proud of you.
Yeah. Well, it's a day job as well, so
you know. I wish I could be as creative as
that. And there we go.
OK, so shall we get into today's topic then, which is connecting
with ancestors and spirits without the nonsense?
So girls, what do we I think that ancestor and spirit work
actually means? Or what does it mean to you for?
Me, I think that I, I have seen a lot on social media and I have
read where it's this idea of calling out to ancestors, trying
to connect. I think for, for my practice
anyway, it's they are part of me, especially the biological
link, the the physical bloodline of ancestry, but that also
includes friends and loved ones. It doesn't necessarily have to
be a blood link for me, but the ancestors are also very much
connected to the land. For me.
They are the lakes, the standing stones.
They have always been associated with that ancestral presence for
me and I don't view it as calling out to connect.
They walk alongside me, they are within me and they are part of
me. And it's about, you know,
quietly recognising them and showing my thanks to everybody
that has walked a path before me and giving them my thanks for
that. OK, yeah, ancestors, exactly the
same as a non or very, very similar to a non.
Actually, it's not the big ritual summoning.
I'm going to summon my ancestors.
Actually, some of it is some of the genealogy.
Where do we go? Doing some of the history, sort
of getting to know some of my family line.
But it's not all my family line. It's everybody who walked before
me, my ancestor work. Sometimes it's light in a
candle. Every day I have a chat with
them. It's difficult to pinpoint,
isn't it, because it's such a daily practice.
Just having a chat like the candle sounds a big thing for
me. That obviously isn't a daily
practice, but I do very much. I do the whole dumb supper do.
You know, when we were talking about this podcast specifically,
it got me thinking about the way that I work with my ancestors
currently versus the way that I did maybe I think maybe two
years ago because I've been going through a bit of a grief
cycle. Like my brother died just over a
year ago. That ancestor work has kind of
taken a backfoot. So it's still there and I still
have the occasional conversation, but much more at
the start of my practice. It was a big part of it
understanding, they say my history, where I've come from,
what what my bloodline looks like and also what it looks like
just generally around my genealogy and how that fits into
my ancestor work. But I think grief has taken for
me it, it's meant that I've had to put that on hold a bit
because, you know, I'm avoiding the big conversations with my
ancestors. And I know that I should.
And I've only just put up a picture of, of my brother, for
instance, because it's just not something I can lean into
immediately. And I guess that might be my
call out to some people starting their practice that they haven't
yet connected to their ancestor work.
And that's OK. Like I've put it down for a
little while and it's still there, but it's not as prominent
as my spirit work. So I'm working much more with
the spirits of the land and of the energies of trees and plants
and, and things like that. That's part of my practice at
the moment. Doesn't mean I'm not working
with my ancestors, but it just means I've got a bit of a
different balance. So it doesn't all come at the
same time. And I think that's that's
important as well. And some people don't work with
their ancestors at all, although I would recommend that.
It's a huge part of witchcraft actually.
And again, I'm not telling people how to how to practice,
but it's really important to understand where you've come
from and what all of that ancestor bloodline looks like as
well, if you can. Yeah, I do.
You know what I think it's, I do think it's important and that
it's, this is not to say to people how to practice, but the
way that folklore, the way that folk traditions, the way that
witchcraft evolved was an oral storytelling passed down from
passed down. So, OK, I might still use the
recipe for a cake that my grandmother taught me or grow a
plant the way that my grandmother taught me how to do
that. However, she was taught by those
who came before her and those who came before her and those
all the way down, and it was a form of survival and it was a
form of community. Little acts like making a family
recipe is actually ancestral. You know, we don't necessarily
need, I mean, let's, I don't personally believe that those
loved ones of mine, my ancestors and the lines down are waiting
in a big waiting room waiting for me to summon them with some
amazing ritual. My ancestors would be really.
Good juice I. Need you now Come and come and
come on please. Exactly.
Do you know what I honestly think?
You know, they've probably got heads up.
They'll know, you know, they're keeping an eye on things, but
they're not focused purely on me and they are not waiting to be
summoned. This is just my belief.
And actually, I think if I try to do that, knowing the people
who have passed, who I love very, very dearly, and I have
conversations with them and sometimes the answer and
sometimes they don't, they would fall off their spiritual chairs
laughing at me if I tried. What about what about you then
Anon? Do you have like daily practices
or really regular practices that you build connection with your
ancestors? Yeah, yeah, I do.
Whether someone would would say they're a practice is different
forms of interpretation, I think.
I mean, for, for me, you know, the land holds ancestor energy,
it holds the spirit of the land. As you both know, I've talked
about this many times with you both privately.
A lot of my ancestor work is done through my dream working.
I connect with them very regularly in my dreams.
But I think it's important for me as well to have that
connection verbally, like what Vicky was saying, you know, a
lot of things have been passed down traditionally, you know,
orally storytelling practice with with somebody, you know,
showing you how to do it, certain planting.
And that's the oral tradition. And if it's safe for me to do
so, I will speak to them out loud incredibly regularly.
And I will say, you know, hello or, you know, love you to the
ones that I remember. But I think what you mentioned,
GAIL as well is incredibly important is that we have to
connect into our own emotional well-being.
For whatever reason, you want to pause something, it's not saying
you're not going to. It's just for now you pause in
for your own emotional health, then that's your pathway for
now. And it doesn't mean that that's
wrong. You know, you're, you're
connecting to other forms of ancestors in different ways.
And I think when we hear the term connecting to ancestors, a
lot of us may instinctively think bloodline or some form of
family line. And in my case anyway, it it's
not always that it's on a much deeper level.
So can I ask you then, and it might be a bit of a personal
question, but when you say you do dream work, how do you go
about that? Is it something now that is just
it comes naturally or do you ask before you go to sleep?
Is there a certain practice that you do in order to connect
during sleep? Or is it that you just accept
the messages when you randomly get them?
I guess for people who maybe have not really thought about
dream connections before. Well, if I ask, 9 times out of
10 they don't come through. And that's me and my ego, you
know. And again, very much like what
we've been saying this, this idea of commanding or summoning,
you know, for me, that connection has always been there
within my, my dream workings. They pop in as and when,
sometimes more regularly than others.
Sometimes it's just that visualization of their face or
sometimes it's just knowing that their spirit is there within my
dream world. Sometimes it's that feeling
knowing that I am protected when I'm doing my astral travel.
Sometimes it's knowing that they're there in the room.
But again, it's down to the practitioner with what feels
right with you and what sits right with you and what is
acceptable. But yeah, I, I speak to them
within my my dream state. Many times I connect with
meditation as well. As I said, you know, I, I don't
feel we're as they're somewhere else and I'm trying to connect.
They are around me, they walk beside me and that's how I view
that connection. They're always there.
Yeah, that's that's really valid.
And I think actually just going back on what I was saying
around, it's not part of my practice now.
It is because everything I do is around my ancestors and spirit
guides. And when I pull an Oracle card,
I'm asking for direction. Or when I'm meditating, I'm
meeting either parts of myself or spirit guides.
And I have, I have met some of my ancestors, which is why I
kind of put a bit of a barrier into doing that because I'm just
not quite ready. But again, I don't have ancestor
altars, but it doesn't mean I'm not working with their energies
or giving gratitude for like Vicky and I were talking before,
right, just before we went on about age and how grateful we
feel for growing older. And we're not old by any stretch
of the imagination, but actually giving gratitude just for simple
things like that. We're giving gratitude to the
spirits that are continuing to hold us, even if we're not
asking them to Been grateful for the simple things is about, you
know, that's also an offering, isn't it?
And saying, you know, thank you for holding me up at this
wonderful age of 47. I love, I love that terminology,
what you said, you know, giving thanks to them holding.
Yeah, to hold you. I love that analogy.
Beautiful. My brother did tell me though
when he was sick because obviously we knew he was going
to pass. He did tell me that he wouldn't
come and see me after he said it doesn't matter how much you talk
to me, so I'm not coming back. So I will.
It's just not right now. But I will get you.
Do you? Know what though, I can.
I will summon you. I tell you what though, my
sister passed 02000 and two 2002 and yet I am to have a
conversation with her. I think I'm too close to the
situation and that's now a really, really long time ago.
Yeah, I feel her around occasionally when I really,
really need her. But that came years afterwards.
Absolutely. Years afterwards.
Now my grandmother, absolutely, absolutely.
She was there spot on. Like I've got you killing and I,
I know exactly where my and my grandfather actually, I smell
his. I know when he's around.
He used to smoke a particular type of cigarette.
There's a lot of people who come into a spiritual practice and
witchcraft practice as a focus to connect with a loved one
that's passed. That's quite normal.
And and you see this an awful lot.
And I mean, I do tarot readings and a lot of the time people are
really hopeful that they're going to get messages through
the tarot, which is not how it works, but to connect to people
that they've lost. So I've had lots of deep
conversations with people who are really deep in in grief as
well. But actually, witchcraft isn't
about that connection. And like you say, Vicky, you've
not really even connected with your sister.
And I probably won't with my brother.
And I am OK with that. I know, I know he's.
There I have. I have a tendency to be very
sensitive to spirit and conversations.
And if anyone's seen one of the Tik Toks, I think I actually
captured a voice when I was doing a voice over.
Yeah. Remember.
Do you remember that? Yeah.
And I tend to be very, very sensitive.
However, I do put up boundaries a lot because of sensitivity,
because sometimes one of the people I would like to sit
there, if I'm going to call a spirit in one of the people I'd
like to sit down and have a conversation with is actually my
sister. Another person is my my best
friend. She hasn't come through either.
I think they're just, they're sort of going.
Yeah, we've got you. If you think we're talking to
you, forget it. Yeah.
Just like, you know, But that's OK.
It takes a little while to get used to the idea that actually
maybe I want this too much, and that's also OK.
So you're probably going to have random Bob from who lived in the
house or lived on the land from 200 years ago, 100 years ago,
1000 years ago, whenever. Then you will more likely, in my
experience, connect with somebody that you desperately
want to be the way it works for me.
So, Vicky, do you have any ancestor or spirit altars or
anything that you dedicate specifically for the work that
you do? At salon, yes.
Other than that, to be fair, not a lot.
Not a lot because they are around me all the time.
Not all the time. I mean, don't get me wrong,
nobody wants granny in the bedroom, OK?
I'm just. Saying.
But if you listen to the last, if you listen to the last
episode, I remember distinctly that a bedroom door that's.
Exactly why, right? Yeah.
So boundaries need to be in place.
Boundaries need to be in place. That's a really valid point,
right? Because when we start doing this
work, people do want to get the messaging.
But sometimes that can be really overwhelming or powerful, and it
stirs a lot of emotion in US. Like I was saying, I'm very
aware at the moment that I'm too griefy to be dealing with some
of that. So I've put my boundaries in
place and that protection, not in a scary way.
We can say no and, you know, move things aside to protect our
own well-being as well, right? Yeah, and that's actually fine.
Tell you what you can. You can ask other ancestors or
those who have come back, you know, those who have come way
before, when you can ask them to give you a hand.
Actually, can you help me? Can you help me have this
boundary? They'll do that for my own good
because actually I won't be able to deal with what is going on.
And you desperately want to deal with it and you desperately want
to have a good old chat. But yeah, boundaries are a
thing. And like I say, nobody wants
granny in the bedroom. Nobody wants to feel that
they're, they are being looked at in their private lives, you
know, So it's a boundary. But boundaries exist for a
reason. And I think it's really
important to say. But to be fair, the spirit realm
is very different to here, right?
They don't do our sex lives or our toilet, but people.
Do not need to. They won't see it because
they're human things that we do in human form.
Absolutely. I know a lot of people are
worried about their having orgies and I'm sorry if that's
disrespectful, but I knew people like that and on I knew you.
The thing with it, The thing is with it is, and it sounds like
we've been disrespectful. It's not.
It's it's experience in working with it.
And what about you Anon, do you have?
And I guess I want to ask the question as well about, you
know, when we said we ask for help or ask for guidance or ask
for support, it's reciprocal, right?
And there's offering and like the gratitude thing, like I said
it, that's part of my offering practice, I guess just more
broadly. But do you have anything like
ancestor alters, or is there certain things you do as a sense
of gratitude when you're doing your work?
If if you saw what I would class as my ancestral altars, they
wouldn't look like your typical altar that we see on social
media. It can be something as beautiful
as a photo frame on the wall. It can be the little Knick
knacks that, you know, grandparents have left me, my
grandmother leaving me who which is Silver Belle that is on one
of my main altars. But my grandfather also left me
his ring. And whenever I think I'm going
into quite a difficult situation, I will have that on
my purse and whether it be on my necklace, whether it be in a
pouch on me, in my coat pocket or in my purse.
But, you know, very much like wards.
You know, wards don't have to look like these beautiful ornate
glass jars. They could be something as
beautiful as a house plant right by the front door.
And you know, there are people that that can't have the altars
that look incredibly aesthetic because of where they're living.
You know, it could be shared housing or perhaps that they
can't practice as openly as perhaps what we can.
And that's me saying that as the anonymous switch for you in the
corner having like for me, there are certain personal
anniversaries and dates where in our tradition we will light a
very simple candle, place on the windowsill, have the curtains
slightly drawn. And that is our representation
of showing the spirit that you're still in our thoughts.
We still love you. We always will.
And in a way, it's like a beacon on the windowsill to bring them,
quote UN quote, back home, even though I know they're with me
all the time. And my gratitude, my thanks to
known ancestors or ancestors of the land is to just very quietly
and respectfully speak to them in my own way, whether that be
verbally or internally. You know, with the ancestors,
it's ensuring that I pick up litter on my way.
I'm ensuring that, you know, I don't drop anything with, you
know, me knowing about it, respecting that ancient
landscape, respecting the wildlife.
I'm just saying thank you and showing my love and gratitude in
the ways that I can with my ancestors, and that is on a
daily basis. I think that's the thing though,
isn't it? Nobody looks at having a picture
frame of family members even way back when or inherited items or
even, I don't know that somebody personally planted a certain
plant, you know, and now you have the great, great, great
grandbaby of, of that particular plant cutting or something.
They don't look at that as ancestor work and, and the
lighting the candles absolutely. And again, it, it doesn't have
to be a shrine and it can be an LED candle and a nod.
And that's enough for. Me actually, and it feels like
I'm contradicting myself because I don't do ancestor work, not
specifically, but I also do all the time and today's one of
those harder days because we've got two anniversary says my
wife's mum's anniversary, says my mother in law's anniversary
today five years and it's my Nan's as well.
On the same day, my mum's mum 7 years and I've got a candle lit
behind me. I did that without even thinking
because that's just part of, you know, just remembering, but also
the whole day has really been sent about remembering and
honouring those people and what they stood for and what they
meant. And you don't have to.
I mean, I'm talking about very specific bloodline ancestors.
But even like you said, Vicky, at the beginning, this is about
our history as from, from witchcraft as well.
And, and spending time honouring what people that have been
before have gone through and, and saying that out loud as
well. And, and talking about what what
was important to generations before, what was important to
our land spirits before, what was important to our bloodline
ancestors as well. Keeping those things alive is
also a great way of giving gratitude and recognising them
because they can hear us. Even if my brother says he
can't, I know he can. But all of those things are
really important as well. And I like I said, I may not do
it has literally that it is ingrained in all of the things
that I do that's. The thing isn't it, you're just
not naming the things that you do and people will be doing this
all of the time. I don't think of a family that
doesn't sort of give an or two old granddad passed, brother
passed, mum or dad did. We're doing ancestor work all of
the time. We don't necessarily name it as
that's what it is. Even telling folk stories, folk
stories that have come down through traditions is ancestor
work. But people say how are you
working with your ancestors? And they expect this big ritual
spiritual Hoo ha, you know. And don't get me wrong, there
are times where you do that. But for the majority on a daily
practice, it's walking past A-frame and say you're right,
granddad. OK, so signs then, signs and
symbols and how spirits communicate.
What's your experience of this and how do you know that you're
getting those messages and do you know?
I spoke to you about this the other day, didn't I, where I was
leaving you a voice note and I had about two Magpies fly past
me. Magpies for me have always been
incredibly significant on a personal level from a very, very
young age. So for me, Magpies are the
messengers from my world into the other.
I do love those physical signs. I do love those feathers on my
pathway. Sometimes it can be as
simplistic as in the summer where there is, you know, no
breeze and all of a sudden you just have that gentle kiss of a
breeze on your cheek. And that instinctively takes you
to a specific person. And there might be no rhyme or
reason why you would think about that person, but that person
instinctively comes in and I'm just filled.
It's a, it's a separate feeling. I am filled with just
unconditional love. When that message comes through,
you know, I have chicken skin, as I call it.
You know, the goosebumps on my arms and I just have this glow
that flows over me and the gratitude that I give back.
It's also sometimes that that smell of a scent that reminds me
of my grandmother's perfume or perhaps something specifically
she would cut, and it instinctively takes me back
there. And yeah, I you know, there are
times I'll. I'll ask.
Can you show me a sign that you're there or that you can
hear me? I know instinctively they can.
And I'll get days where I have sign after sign after sign and
the more elaborate I asked for them to be.
But I think at some point, you know, you have to stop and, and
recognise, like what Vicky was saying earlier, they're not all
around waiting, you know, to come in at your every whim.
You know, there are other things that they're doing, but just
knowing that they're there, that feeling and that emotion, you,
you know, when a loved one is close and it's so beautiful.
Yeah, and it's about understanding what to look for
as well, because I guess when you're new on this path as well,
it can be you're expecting very explicit signs and messages.
And I've said this before, like, wouldn't it be amazing if all
the spirits came to us and just told us what we wanted to know?
But unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
There's a lot of deciphering. And yeah, I, I asked for
messages occasionally and I actually did that this week.
Just needed a bit of reassurance, right?
Just there was something I was asking for and it came in a very
different way. So I wanted to find a bone.
I know this isn't for everybody, but I, I connect really deeply
to animal spirits and, and those kind of offerings back to me
feel like a very reciprocal relationship and I didn't.
But what I have found and I've seen it every single day since
was a dead fox. And although it brings a wave of
sadness and I said to her, my wife today, because we were
walking past, I said I might bring a shovel down and, and
bury it actually, because it's still there I think 3 or 4 days
later. I also know that that's a really
important message for me because it's about the cycles of life
and, you know, in the transition from life to death.
And, but it might not be for everybody.
But, and it does, like I said, it does make me feel a certain
way. But I also know that that wasn't
my specific message being answered, but it was my message
being answered in a different way.
So I think when we're looking for signs or asking for our
spirit guides to give us some direction, we have to be open to
the fact that the messaging isn't going to come as black and
white as we expected. That's a really sorry that
that's a really important point because I've I've seen some
funny videos on on social media. The classic one is I've seen a
crow is is that a sign? And they say, no, it's just a
crow. But I think, I think for me, I
know when it's a specific sign because of the emotion behind
it, because of the feeling behind it, because of that inner
glow that I feel. Or it might be a sign as a
warning, a trepidation as well. I've learned to adapt how I
respond to certain signs. And yeah, there might be 16
crows one day outside of my house.
If I feel nothing to say with that, then I know that that
isn't specifically a sign for me, but it's something that I
will remember and note down to see what comes my way over that
day or or the next. Yeah, that's really important.
And we shouldn't be walking around all day long asking for
signs. Like that's a really a bit of a
red flag, as I would say in terms of like anxiety as well,
because we shouldn't be living our lives always needing to get
signs and symbols in order for that validation.
So we need to a great social media word discernment, but it's
so true and it needs maybe rephrasing for some people, but
just understanding when's the right time to ask after you're
doing the gratitude. You can't just be demanding,
like you said, Vicky, come and help me sort my life.
Like you need to be giving praise, giving gratitude, doing
the altar work, if that works for you, and a small altar for
ancestors, old, new spirits, all of those kind of things.
And then we shouldn't be looking for signs and everything because
most of the time it is mundane. I was going to say, it's that
mundane before magic, isn't it? Birds fly, birds molt, and
feathers fall all the time. And this is going to probably
put people off and they're going to say no, but it's a particular
feather. OK, well, what birds have you
got around now? I live in the countryside.
We get a lot of feathers. Have I had a feather as a sign?
Absolutely. And it was very, very specific.
Very specific. My best friend had just died.
I didn't ask her for a sign. I was just, I was in so much
shock, so much shock. It was completely out of the
blue. And we had a joke about pigeons.
It was, it was a thing. We had an in joke.
You know how you do with your best mate.
You've got an in joke about pigeons and pigeon feathers.
Now we've got a lot of pigeons here, but a lot of pigeons Do I
think that every pigeon feather in the garden is a sign from
her? No, because they're not.
Because birds molt. That's the mundane of it.
What the sign was is my lounge window was open very, very
slightly. And my reading glasses because
I'm old. I have reading glasses.
Hey my reading, thank you. Were on the window sill and a
pigeon feather had coming through the window and rested in
between the nose piece and the glass piece of my reading
glasses. I actually posted it on TikTok
because I was stunned. I turned around to my husband
and I said, did you put that there?
Because that's my first thing. Did you you messing with me?
Did you put that there? And it was just a few days after
my best friend had died unexpectedly.
Wow. It was, I knew that was
something that I didn't. I wasn't looking for her.
I was still in shock. I wasn't looking for signs.
I thought my husband was pranking me because I was.
So no, I'm going to be very mundane with this.
And actually, that was her just going, sorry, I'm on the other
side now. It's all cool.
Yeah, actually there was another message with it, but obviously
that's personal. That's like what Anam was
saying, though. There was an emotion around that
message. Yeah, there's a feeling around
it, like I talked about the thoughts and and the way that
resonated for me and Anon as well, like saying she feels that
spark as well. And you knew like the energy
around that it wasn't just and you'd go fuck sake, check it out
the window. It was.
It was meant because the emotion was there yet, and Phil wasn't
messing around, obviously. Yeah, exactly.
And and we have never had a feather coming through the
window before or after that ever.
And for it to land exactly where it landed was, I mean, the odds
for that were just ridiculous. But do we get a lot of pigeon
feathers? Absolutely.
We also get a lot of crow feathers.
We've got a lot of crows. So no, they're not all signs.
And do I think we should be asking for signs all the time?
Do you know what we are on this earth to live a human existence
and to learn the lessons. And sometimes asking is OK, if
you've ever had young toddlers who go ma'am, ma'am, ma'am,
ma'am, why, why, why? You can see what I'm trying to
say. Yeah, yeah.
Your spirits, your ancestors have told you that you're a pain
in the arse, haven't they? I've been.
Doing this a long time. Yeah, I took the message.
Yeah, OK, I won't keep asking. Yeah.
And this leads me on to my next question, right.
It's like where we're talking about we can't keep asking, but
like our companionship with our spirit guides and our ancestors
versus that dependency on having them.
And it's not unusual, like I said, to be come to the craft
because of grief or loss and start going down that rabbit
hole. But I guess it's, it's that
sensible approach about using our craft and our ancestry work
and our connections as a great way to connect and feel into
ourselves and not escape from, you know, reality.
Like say we're on this on this planet to live a life.
If you find yourself thinking about the spirit world, stroke,
ancestors more than you are connecting with daily life,
that's a red flag. We all think about our lost
ones. We do.
It's one of those things. Sometimes it's a daily thing.
Grief is a thing. However, there is a point where
if you're not stepping into the realities of this human world,
this human life that you are experiencing, then there is help
out there. I don't mean to sound
patronizing, but it's really true.
And I've been through really horrible grief.
And I'm not saying that's worse than anybody else's, but I've
experienced it. And you can find yourself too
much there and actually not being funny.
But if we're talking about ancestor work with people who've
passed recently, they wouldn't want you to be in that state.
It's 100% important to experience life, the highs and
the lows, the difficulty, the sadness, but also the joy and
the happiness. And on this pathway I understand
at some point my physical life will come to an end.
And for anyone that is still experiencing this beautiful
life, I would never want them to be in complete sadness.
I would want to be able to come back, which I will.
I've already told all my friends I'm going to be coming in and
going when you least expect me. But I, I want my loved ones to
know that I want their life to continue.
And it's important for them to have those moments to feel, you
know, to feel into that sadness, but to also have tears of joy.
And for them to know from me that I will always be beside
them and I will come to them as much as I can if they call.
But I think any one of our ancestors would would want us to
see us living life and being in the moment and experiencing all
of the highs and the lows that life can offer.
This is why we've chosen to be here.
It's not to have a steady path. It's not to have a feeling of
numbness. Being human is about
experiencing all of that chaotic emotional energy.
So how do you guys approach the aspects of just being safe and
considered about this work? Because there is, you know, on
social media, sometimes you can come across as a little bit
scary. And I guess This is why Diane on
Patrons asked this question specifically.
So. So what things would you say you
need to consider when working with your ancestors?
Knowing why you're going to work with them.
Knowing what you're going to ask, I'm being ridiculously
grounded and very aware of noticing your own body, noticing
how you feel, whether that's a knotty stomach, Do I feel tight
and tense? Have I got goosebumps that don't
feel right. We've all been in that
situation, I'm sure, whether in witchcraft or not, in the
practice or not, we've all been in that situation where you've
got that feels not nice. Maybe don't push those moments.
Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have some form of
fear. I'm not saying you should be a
scared. But I think it's OK to feel
uncomfortable, particularly if you're doing something new.
We're not always comfortable with doing new things.
If you have got the hair standing up on the back of your
neck, your throat feels tight, your stomach's in a big knot,
maybe stop what you're doing. So when you say grounding, do
you use that as a form of protection, or should we have
specific protections around doing very specific ancestor
work? I mean, when we're walking and
saying, you know, I miss you, I love you, and doing all of those
daily things, maybe not so much. But if you were sitting down to
do some ritual work around ancestor work, what do you think
is the most important thing around that?
You are going to open the door to anything very likely.
Now this isn't about being scary, but what I would say to
you is, are you going to leave your front door open in the
middle of the night? Just I am.
Yeah, yeah. Just leave it wide open.
You know my stance on protection.
Absolutely. Sorry, that was pretty
sarcastic. We will go into that in another
episode. But of course, of course you
should be protected. But again, it's not about the
fear mongering. But you're absolutely correct,
There are, there are doors opening, aren't there?
So. Absolutely.
You're coming or, and if you wouldn't leave your front door
wide open and then go to bed and leave open all night, then maybe
go a little bit careful. Now everybody's going to have
their different ways of protection.
My way will be different from your way, GAIL, as will be
different from and Lance. Do I think lighting 1 black
candle is going to be enough for that?
No, I'm going to lay the protection up.
I'm going to have the wards up and I am going to set boundaries
and be very grounded in why I'm doing it, what I'm doing.
Am I feeling comfortable enough within myself?
How have I had a busy day where I'm not actually concentrating
properly or have I got time to do this?
It's all those things, you know, is the dog going to come
suddenly racing into the room with a bone?
And you know, no, I'm going to, I'm going to find that space.
I'm going to give it that time. I'm going to have layered
protection. And once I've opened doors, I'm
going to close doors. And there's lots of information
about how to do that. But it is, it isn't the tick
tock, right? We're going to light a black
candle and throw salt everywhere.
Well, I feel like this is a really good time for me to say
and I'm using that silly voice because I am doing I do wild
wisdom where I release a long form content video on my Patreon
and on YouTube every Wednesday. And I think in a couple of weeks
time I'm doing protection magic. It's only two episodes and I've
done it before on Patreon, but it's like those 10 steps
grounding boundaries, centering, you know, it's not like saying
the black handle and throw in salt.
I mean time, but protection, magic, boundaries, all of those
things are going through those steps.
So nice to let me mention it in in the.
No, no, like nice to have a nice.
Lead, but I don't have you ever. Have you ever done spirit work
and maybe had something come through that you didn't want?
No. Because you're protected, you
know what you're doing. Well, not everyone is going to
be called to work with ancestors.
And I think that's important to recognise, you know, we're,
we're all, we've all got our own personalized practice.
Some people may just be called to do their own ancestry.
Some people might just be called to look at the history of where
they're living or where they're from.
And that's absolutely fine. We don't have to connect.
I personally have been connecting with the other world
or the other realms from a very young age and there are family
connections that I have built up that rapport with and that
connection with. So I think it's important that
we recognise that this can take time.
It is about building up that relationship so I feel safe
working with those spirits and energies that I do when I go
into a new place. Ultimately, I I normally go to
the same land space when I connect to the spirits of the
land. But if I'm going somewhere new,
I will have my charms on me, my protective charms.
I will carry certain herbs in my pocket, but ultimately I hold
the consent of who can come near me within this physical world
and within the spiritual realm. I will not allow any spirit to
come anywhere near me or my family that holds any form of
negative ill will. And I will go into that space
with respect ultimately first, but with reverence and with
sovereignty. And if I feel that there is any
energy overstepping my boundary, then my team come into play.
Ancestral work doesn't necessarily need to be
bloodline. It could be, you know, a loved
one, a friend. But there are people that are
worried and concerned about people that have passed and that
they're worried that they might try and quote, UN quote, come
through and try and connect with them again, Very much like what
I was saying about going into a space that is unknown.
It's incredibly important to get to a point in this pathway where
we understand the power within. We understand the source and the
sovereignty within. And if you do not want a
specific spirit that has passed to connect with you, you hold
that power, you hold that boundary.
And if you fully believe that you will not give your consent
to that energy to come through, then they will not the.
Thing with this is, I mean sort of I, you know, I mentioned
before about the TikTok voice capture.
Now that could have been a mic glitch.
However, it was some very distinct words while I was
talking about ancestors. Did I invite them in?
No. They popped past.
But did they overstep my personal boundaries?
No. And from me they got a nod.
I know I heard you, Alice. You know you can go now.
You've given me your message off your toddle, thanks very much.
Because they just wanted to be heard.
I've had situations where because I have quite strong
boundaries, because I am sensitive, I have been connected
with and people have shouted at me for a very good reason.
I was going to say, I'm not surprised you're asking for so
bloody much, Vic. Yeah, I know, I know.
Yeah. I mean, again, crazy, crazy
story. I was my husband at the time.
This is again, this is probably about 20 years ago, 20 years
ago. It was when my children were
little and my husband was ill and he'd been to the GP and it
was on to antibiotics and I had to go into the next town over.
So I packed up my little one, my youngest who was tiny, then put
them in the car, went to drive to where I was going and a voice
shouted in the car. And the voice sounded very, very
similar to the one that came on the TikTok.
So if you could imagine that voice and it just said turn
around, go home, really shouted. I mean, now I thought I was mad,
said it again, turn around, go home.
I'm not any form of medium. I happen to just be a little bit
sensitive and I have very big boundaries up.
But this was shouting at me. I turned round the roundabout.
I went back home, went into the house to find my husband in
slept in septic shock. So and that saved his life.
The fact that I listened and they shouted above my boundaries
was actually quite important. Yeah.
So I think that happens all the time.
Know that situation has happened to me once.
I've got a similar story, haven't I, Victoria that I told
you about, which I won't go into, but I think there are
times where your spiritual protection, your spiritual team
will allow that incredible important message to come
through. But whomever is or whatever is
bringing that message and knows your own boundaries as well.
And, and there's a specific importance to that.
I think for me, it is ultimately understanding the power within,
in and, and really believing within your own, within your own
magic, within your own power. And you know, if you have to
shout out loud for something to remove itself, but you have that
full belief in your own strength, your emotional
strength, your physical strength, your spiritual
strength, and it will be. So thanks for sharing that
ladies, but actually I think it's another important fact is
you guys have been practicing witchcraft for you don't want to
allow maybe 20 years or more, both of you.
So and the experience there cannot be underestimated.
So any new practitioners coming into this, These aren't the type
of things that happen as you're starting out.
You need to be fully grounded and understand and and listen
and work with our ancestors and our spirit guides.
It is a reciprocal relationship. So Vicky, I've got no doubt that
you've spent years building that relationship ahead of having
that insane message, right? It's not, it's not like it just
happens. And so so we do need to build up
that relationship and honour and do all the things that we talked
about here. Small steps first.
And I will say I've spent, I've spent a lot of years putting
boundaries up so that I didn't have to deal with it because I
don't personally like it that much.
Not my bag. It's not that I hate it.
I'll accept it, but I have very, very strong boundaries up.
So in reality, every which connects with ancestors and
spirits in their own way. And today we've shared some of
the grounded lived approaches that work for us.
And this isn't about theatrics and we don't want to put fear
into anybody either. This is about no nonsense
approach to working with your ancestors and spirit guides.
So do let us know what you think.
As always, we really appreciate the feedback and drop us any
questions you have because that leads us on very nicely to our
come sit with us listener questions.
And this week our question is from Sassy Lassie on Patreon and
she's asked what is our favorite spell to cast and what is your
favorite tool to do it? Who wants to take the floor
first? Shall I go first?
Yes, go for it girl. So this is going to be really
boring, right? But my favorite spell, it's not
like what what we're seeing on social media, but it's more
about my connection to the land. And I absolutely adore picking
up stones, working with sticks out in nature, speaking
intention to it. And whatever that may be, that
may be a releasing spell, that may be Rd. unblocker across
roads working, but whatever that may be, speaking intention and
then letting it go into a stream.
And it can also be intention setting.
But I don't often ask for big things.
I take that sort of stuff on myself to build momentum and
manifest my own, my own lives. I'm asking my spirit guides to
help support with that. But for me, it's just about
holding a piece of nature speaking or whispering into
whatever that may be at the time, dependent on what working
I'm doing, because I'll always use correspondences as well.
And then letting the river take it.
Why don't you layer it up? Because it's usually on a moon
phase. You know me, Moon phase.
Oh, is it you? You sort of.
Furby pinch what I. Was going to say on the layering
up thing. Did I steal yours?
You did. I was going to say the layering
up thing. So yeah.
So mine clearly, I layer up as well.
We all layer up. It's not just one thing.
Not just one thing. But I have to say I'm torn.
I'm torn between three things. But so I get the labouring up
answer, OK? I love not work.
Traditional not work. You guys knew that I was going
to say that, didn't you? No, I didn't, but I understand
it because it is an amazing piece of artwork.
And I'm amazing. It's so good.
If you don't know about not work you need to go learn.
It's really good. I'm going to your Patreon,
right? I move to my Patreon.
That will be one of the next ones up, a little brief on not
work, not work and poppets, which is actually already up on
my Patreon, a very, very brief introductory for free.
We will go deeper and this isn't a plug, but we will go deeper
and that will be paid for because that's a lot of work for
me to produce poppets, sympathetic magic.
So sympathetic magic, really like a good poppet.
I really do and not work and that sounds really weird for me
being a green witch because you think, Oh no, should people be
about the plants? But I stuff those things with
the plants that I grow from the garden.
I layer them up. I like a little bit of elemental
magic in that as well. That's probably my favorite sort
of spell particular whether it be, I don't know, love finance,
that type of thing. If somebody's asking that, but I
don't have a particular one of those.
Social media is so good at talking about justice work, and
it's one of the things that I do the least, but I think everybody
really wants to go Oh yeah, I love doing a bit of painful.
Oh, the. Painful.
I'm not knocking painful because there are people who really work
really well with that. My life is about balance, if I
can get balance, and that doesn't mean necessary justice,
but just if life is balanced, there's not too much hectic
going on. We're all good, I.
Have to think about this one. I would say one of my favorite
spells now, it wasn't when I was younger, is I suppose connected
to the altar of self. So my own form of of altar to me
is mirror work. I know that might sound a little
bit bizarre, but it's taken me a long, long time genuinely to
look in the mirror and to love who I am.
And, you know, when I was growing up, I wasn't your
classical what you were deemed to be this, this beautiful
aesthetic girl, you know, I was me.
I was the wild child with frizzy hair and, and freckles.
And I loved my Ford. What can I say, you know, and I
loved me. I think there were parts of, of,
you know, society, children my own age that maybe didn't like
the luck of me. And I think over time, without
me really being truthful to myself, it knocked my confidence
and I started doubting me. I started doubting my own magic,
which I am ashamed to say, but that was part of my my growth.
And I've come to a point in my life now where I can genuinely
look in the mirror, look into my own and eyes and say how proud I
am of me and how how beautiful I am.
And you know what? If no one thinks that, then I
don't care. I don't care anymore.
Do. You know what?
I love that. I love that you love that.
Does that make sense? I got so.
I, I absolutely adore it and it's actually one of the final
things that I taught on my embodiment course, you know, the
four week course that I did. It was actually the activity to
go away and do this mirror work because it's so key, like
understanding ourselves, appreciating all of our edges,
the good and the bad, because we need to love all aspects of
ourselves and looking at ourselves in the mirror.
And that glamour work is so underrated because we always
think it's about beauty and it's not.
It's not about finding our beauty, it's about finding
ourselves, right? Because we are all beautiful.
Like that's just a fact. Also, I think being OK with
being seen, you are allowed to be seen.
You are allowed to be sovereign, and that's all.
You think that's a good thing? Yeah.
And I, I think loving self and I know it's talked about a lot,
but but truly loving your inner soul, your spirit, you know,
glamour work isn't about aesthetically looking as pretty
as what social media demands males and females and and
everybody else to have a certain look.
It's about the person you are and seeing yourself for that and
loving you. And I think when you truly,
deeply and passionately love who you are, the scars and all,
that's when your magic has power.
Yeah, that's when everything comes together on your pathway.
Do you know some of the most beautiful people that you will
see are wrinkly, wizened old people and they have got that
spark in their eye that is just amazing and it's beautiful and.
It's an air about them, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, Essence. Oh, thanks ladies.
I know you're talking about me, and that's absolutely what I am.
Old and wrinkly and wizened. Oh my God.
So thank you for listening to Between 3 Witches Witchcraft in
Plain Sight. If this episode resonated,
you're welcome to sit with it, share it, or let it unfold in
its own time. So you can find me, Vicky, and
Annon all over social media. I'm going to put in the show
notes, all of our links, so you can go and follow us over there
and make sure you come back for episode 4.
We are going to talk about curses, hexes, and the ethics
around justice work, which is going to be a great podcast.
So until next time, may your practice meet you exactly where
you are.