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Welcome to Between Three 
Witches, where we talk about 

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witchcraft in plain sight. 
Everyday magic lived honestly 

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and it's hosted by three 
witches, me, GAIL the witch next

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door and Anon the Anonymous 
Witch. 

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Usually we have Vicky the 
Wheelie green witch but today 

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she cannot be with us, but we 
are going to have our Witchcraft

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101 guest today. 
We all walk different paths with

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different levels of experience, 
but we share a deep respect for 

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the Craft as it is actually 
practised and not the dramatized

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version that people expect. 
On today's episode, our 

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Witchcraft One O 1 guest is a 
practitioner who weaves together

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Scottish folklore, ancestral 
wisdom, and contemporary 

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witchcraft. 
Her work focuses on grounding, 

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healing, and reconnecting people
to the land, the seasons, and 

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their own inner magic. 
With a gentle voice and a deep 

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sense of heritage, she brings a 
uniquely Scottish perspective to

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the Craft, one filled with 
history, heart, and a touch of 

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enchantment. 
It's great to welcome you to the

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podcast That Glasgow Witch, also
known as Geo Good to have you on

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the podcast. 
How are you? 

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And for those of people that 
don't know you, first of all, 

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how on earth would they not? 
But who is That Glasgow Witch? 

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Hi, it's really lovely to have 
me on your podcast, GAIL, I 

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think I feel as if you were the 
first person that I met on 

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social media. 
Yeah, I'm sure you had like a 

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few 1000 followers and I 
remember you doing a live as 

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well and I was on it and it's 
probably the only live you've 

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ever done. 
I've never done one again since.

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Not that it was bad, but I just 
there was. 

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No. 
I couldn't, I couldn't figure it

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all out, all the stuff on the 
screen. 

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But yeah. 
So I'm Jio. 

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I started posting on social 
media to share some of my 

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practice with my daughter, who 
was 19 at that point. 

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Some wildness happened. 
And now I've got, I think, 

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across the three platforms 
about, I think the last count 

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was about 1.3 million people 
following me across the big 

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Three TikTok. 
So Facebook, Instagram. 

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I'm just a lady who's sharing my
practice every day. 

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Not every day. 
I think I've only posted like 

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250 videos, but I just really 
enjoy sharing it. 

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It's a nice thing to do. 
I know your account has just 

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blown up. 
I cannot. 

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There's not one person on social
media that I could mention your 

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name, like within our community 
that doesn't know you. 

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And then I say, I recently came 
out at work. 

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I kind of told work when I was 
on a drunk work trip in 

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Luxembourg. 
I told my bosses I thought 

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they'd found my social media, to
be honest. 

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And now they all follow me on 
Instagram, which is which is 

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great, right? 
And my colleagues like to have a

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bit of a jibe, but they also 
like understand and like kiss 

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part of my life. 
So it's really good. 

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But then they got all this that 
Glasgow, which keeps coming up 

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on my feed as well. 
I'm like, well, it's because you

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follow me. 
So of all the witches that are 

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now popping up on their social 
media feeds, it's you. 

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You're everywhere. 
Oh. 

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That's good. 
That's. 

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Nice, that is good. 
It is. 

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It's just been a really weird 
year. 

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It's been a really, really 
strange year, but I've really 

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enjoyed it. 
My life's completely changed. 

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I never knew I wasn't really a 
big social media user before. 

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I think when my personal social 
media account, I've got like 100

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fall, like I follow 100 people 
and it's all aunties and 

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grannies and people that you 
know, there's no, I'm not a big 

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social media person, but I've 
had to learn and it's been a 

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process. 
So it's it's been nice. 

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Yeah, but you came right out the
blocks with a very unique kind 

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of angle. 
And I always wanted to ask you 

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actually, I thought she must be,
she must work in marketing or do

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something because it's so it's 
so good like the and I guess 

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it's because you you put a lot 
of thought into it because 

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you're doing it for your family,
right? 

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You're doing it for your 
daughter or you were. 

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I mean, it's kind of evolved 
into something completely crazy 

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now. 
But yeah, it's so some of your 

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ideas are just they're simple, 
but delivered in such a 

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brilliant way. 
I I admire it a lot because I 

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feel like I just run on and just
go Blair quick. 

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Everybody know this more? 
Well, I, I still do for my 

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daughter now. 
So the videos that I make are 

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still for her and having a 
daughter when she's a teenager 

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and she was a teenager then 
she's she's a young woman now. 

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But and I was exactly the same 
with my mum. 

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Like if my mum, my mum did 
something and I thought it was 

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shit, then I'd tell. 
So I need to make sure that I 

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mean, if it was shit, she'd tell
me and I wouldn't, she wouldn't 

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watch it. 
Do you know what that's really 

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accommodating of you? 
Because my son is He'll be 19 

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next month. 
He says that he's never watched 

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my social media. 
I probably believe him. 

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I do try and tell him like the 
good stuff that's happening, try

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and get him like intrigued about
it, but he hasn't he's not he's 

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not keen at all. 
But he also goes to church, 

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right? 
So in his eyes, my witchcraft is

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very woo woo and all of the rest
of it. 

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But I say tonight, I'm really 
accepting of your beliefs. 

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You know, why are you not 
accepting of mine? 

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But yeah, so so my, my plan, I 
spoke to him about YouTube. 

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I'm like, please help me with 
YouTube because that is a 

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different that's a different 
world Geo. 

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If you decide to go on YouTube, 
it's not normal over there. 

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And I'm like, and he's like, you
will never be able to do 

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YouTube. 
So I thought, right, that is it.

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I'm doing it. 
It's very slow, but I'm like, 

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I'm only doing it to prove him 
wrong, like, you know, but 

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you're being nice to your 
daughter and going, actually, 

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I'm going to do something that 
she will find. 

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Yeah. 
Well. 

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Like that she will enjoy. 
So when you look back on how you

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started, what is something that 
you just don't do anymore, you 

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just don't prescribe to, but you
did in the beginning? 

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Loads of stuff I used to cast. 
I used to cast circles and 

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uncast circles with every single
breath. 

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I don't do that at all anymore. 
Well, occasionally just 

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depending on where I'm working 
with energy. 

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That's unusual feel of the the 
place, but I don't do that 

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hardly ever anymore. 
And that used to be a a fool 

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calling in of the quarters and 
all of that. 

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You know, that was in the early 
2000s maybe. 

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And I kind of, yeah, once I once
I started to understand like 

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feel what the difference was. 
And I think I maybe just forgot 

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to do it. 
Once there was a definite 

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difference for me and what the 
board it felt like. 

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And I was like, I'm going to try
that again. 

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And it was, yeah, better. 
So a lot of this, a lot of the 

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things that I'm doing, I'm 
trying to connect to the the 

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wider energy of the world. 
And when I cast a circle, I feel

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as if I'm really drawn in. 
So bother anymore, I just let 

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it. 
I'll try and let it be. 

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Really. 
Everything else right about me 

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but the craft. 
Made it super cool, didn't it, 

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to cast a circle and call in the
quarters and you know, obviously

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very Wiccan as well. 
I now I call in not the 

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quarters, but I do call in the 
elements. 

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I find it a really nice part of 
my meditation practice and I, 

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because I, I work with the drum 
as well. 

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I kind of talk to the 
north-south, east, West and just

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call upon like the spirits or 
kind of the energy of like the 

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sunrise based on where we're 
working with. 

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So I love doing that, but I 
don't do it in like a 

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ritualistic way. 
It's more about just coming back

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to myself like that, that 
grounding energy, and just being

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appreciative of the energy. 
Because it's not really an 

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ancient practice, is it? 
It doesn't align anywhere, but 

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it just reminds me about that 
energy. 

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So I do like it. 
But yeah, I'm not doing the 

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whole craft thing. 
Stood on a beach. 

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Hey, I'd love to. 
That looked quite cool, isn't 

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it? 
Oh, do you do it? 

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Hang on. 
No, Well, no. 

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I mean, I've, I've to be honest 
with you, I've never cast a 

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circle and I never have. 
Like like I've said in in 

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previous podcasts, I've always 
viewed things that I've read, 

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things that I've researched as a
blueprint, as a guide, very much

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like what we were talking about 
earlier. 

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You know, the only access I had 
as a teenager growing up were 

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box very dedicated to Wicker or 
Wicker. 

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And there were many elements 
within that that sounded 

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beautiful, that I felt attracted
to it. 

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But equally I knew there was 
another way. 

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I can't explain it other than I 
knew there was another way to do

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this. 
And what they were explaining to

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do, you know, about, you know, 
call calling in all this that 

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and the other. 
It just didn't sit with me. 

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And I just, for me, I, I view it
more as connecting with my own 

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inner power and connecting with 
what I work with. 

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And that alignment with the 
place around me, with the land 

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around me, aligning myself with 
the spirit of place. 

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That's how I've kind of always 
done it. 

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And to me, that feels like home.
Yeah, well, she, she's grown up,

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I think in in witchcraft. 
Have you, Gio? 

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I don't think you did, did you? 
Did you come into it as a 

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teenager? 
Yeah, commence it as a teenager,

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my way into metaphysical, 
metaphysical shop in the town I 

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grew up in when I was wasn't 
trusted to be at home on my own 

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in the summer holidays. 
And yeah, I couldn't find the 

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place down. 
I think my parents were 

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frightened for their insurance 
bill. 

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And I went into a shop. 
The shop was called Bell Book 

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and Candle in the town that I 
lived, I lived in. 

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And there was tons of wicked 
stuff on the shelf then. 

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And I, the thing that made me 
like stop in my tracks, I was 

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looking at actually, I'm a bit 
bloody, but the wheel of the the

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wheel of the year posted on the 
wall in the shop and I was 

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looking at it and I just thought
it looked beautiful. 

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And the, the shop owner gave me 
like full permission to be like,

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that's a Wiccan thing. 
You'll is not a Scottish 

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tradition. 
It's from, you know, Nordic 

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countries, which is in Mabon, 
isn't a Scottish thing. 

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It's not even a Welsh thing. 
It's a Welsh God. 

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That's not it's not really 
started. 

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On that now. 
You had to bring it. 

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You had to bring it up. 
I was going to warn you. 

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I was going. 
To but that was that was my 

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introduction to it at 14 years 
old. 

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It was like they wrote about 
this, but it's a bit of in 

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Scottish folk culture, we've got
huge ceremonial knowledge around

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the fire festival. 
So savage and Lunas, a beltine 

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and emolk. 
We've got massive information 

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and and you know, we know what 
we did around those festivals 

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for for centuries, but for the, 
for the solstices and the 

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equinoxes, we didn't have words 
to describe them there. 

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There was no Litha or marble and
or whatever. 

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You know, there wasn't any of 
this in Scotland, so, but we 

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definitely had a real veneration
for those times of the year 

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because we had all of our stone 
circles and our Cairns that were

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pointing in the directions at 
each of those times. 

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So when I was looking at that 
way back then, I kind of 

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understood that the solstices 
and the equinoxes were like our 

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big marker points, like a big 
calendar. 

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And then our Fyre festivals 
happened midway between each of 

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those big markers. 
So I don't I never really got 

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like really strung up on like 
researching Marvin. 

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You know, I never never came to 
me that to think that I had to. 

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And then you'll never really sat
with me either. 

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That wasn't something that yeah,
like having a Christmas tree in 

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the house and people call it a 
Yule tree because that's 

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obviously where it came from. 
But that wasn't even I've only 

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started doing you'll. 
It's not even it's not really 

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even a practice, but because I 
do the 13 magical nights from 

224
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,680
the from this and I do it from 
the solstice. 

225
00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:08,440
I don't even do it over the 
period that you know, that 

226
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,480
that's that ritually originally 
comes from, but I do, I start on

227
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,120
the the solstice. 
So I didn't, I was just, I just 

228
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,720
was never given. 
I never had to unlearn that. 

229
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,720
That was just given to me as A 
and by the way, we don't call it

230
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,360
that and we don't call it this. 
And that's just a nice 

231
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,320
interpretation of how to fit all
that into one circle across all 

232
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,600
the different Celtic cultures. 
But there are, you know, English

233
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,400
people who don't know what back 
in the day when her ancestors 

234
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,000
were old, there were, there 
would be English people who 

235
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,680
wouldn't have the slightest idea
what Yule was. 

236
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,720
And I was going to say there 
were people who weren't, well, 

237
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,080
she wouldn't know what my bond 
was, but probably Welsh people 

238
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,280
didn't know what that was 
either. 

239
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:54,400
Yeah, I love that you, I, I, and
this is so important, I think 

240
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,640
for our community and especially
for people remembering, like you

241
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,960
said, you know, like I've heard 
you speak before about, you 

242
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,680
know, that whimsical kind of 
metaphysical shot that you went 

243
00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:09,960
into and you said, I, I just had
this knowing it was like just 

244
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,960
this light bulb within your soul
just lit. 

245
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,000
And it was like almost like I'm 
home. 

246
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,840
And I love that. 
But I think it's so important 

247
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,840
for people to acknowledge that 
your path is yours. 

248
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,920
And it's incredibly important to
lean into things that feel 

249
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:31,200
familiar, that feel safe, but to
also explore as well, you know, 

250
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,440
and, and, and to spread your 
wings and to, and to practice, 

251
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,400
to try. 
No, I think that that's AI think

252
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,200
that that's a big part of my 
practice is leaning into what 

253
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,840
feels, what feels right. 
And there's there's lots of 

254
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,840
things that I practice that are 
outside Scottish or Celtic 

255
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,760
culture and but I don't bang on 
about them. 

256
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,400
It's just a private practice for
me to do on my own. 

257
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:58,320
I'm not like, you know, to and 
and unblock our spells on them 

258
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,520
and online and using, you know, 
from other cultures. 

259
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,240
I just don't. 
But I'd really like to read 

260
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,640
about those things and I like to
understand why those things took

261
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,360
took place and how that's 
important to those cultures. 

262
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,600
And then if that sometimes 
inspires my own practice in 

263
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:17,880
other ways, But it's not like, 
for example, I, I use a red red 

264
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,080
thread drowned my dreams for 
Feng shui. 

265
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,040
So that's, that's not part of my
culture. 

266
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,560
But I think I really think it's 
really cool and I use it. 

267
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,800
And then I also put green thread
drowned the pipe where the water

268
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,080
comes into my house. 
And that was just something that

269
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,680
came to me from inspiration from
the red thread from the water 

270
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:40,680
that's leaving my house as a, as
a blessing and a marker of 

271
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:45,320
abundance and health coming into
my home and that same flow of 

272
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,880
water. 
So I do like to understand why 

273
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,200
other cultures do other things 
from a folk practice point of 

274
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,800
view. 
And yeah, I'll incorporate if it

275
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,480
feels nice to me, I'll 
incorporate some of those things

276
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,560
into my own practice. 
But the bedrock of what I do is 

277
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:04,640
Scottish folk culture and that's
that, that's just never going to

278
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,920
change. 
That's I saw someone making them

279
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,200
tacos the other week from potato
scones, which is, you know, 

280
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,720
Mexican food and Scottish collab
together. 

281
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,080
So I quite sometimes I quite 
like those little mash ups of 

282
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,440
culture. 
Yeah. 

283
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,040
What are they called? 
What they are they called 

284
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,200
scones? 
Are they or they tatties? 

285
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:25,920
What was? 
I went to Scotland. 

286
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,120
I did a 2. 
I did the NC 500 a couple of 

287
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,680
years ago. 
Oh, I did Yeah, yeah. 

288
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:30,240
Tatties. 
Yeah. 

289
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:31,120
Yeah. 
Well, I'm going to. 

290
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,400
NC. 500 it's the most honestly. 
It is gorgeous. 

291
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,960
It's a beautiful place to go. 
I think. 

292
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,560
I think in the rest of Scotland 
we call it tati scones, but I've

293
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,480
my family have always called it 
Totti scones. 

294
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,240
So it's a totti scone in our 
house, but it's like a soda fat,

295
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,280
like it's a, like a potato cake,
an Irish potato. 

296
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:52,280
That's not. 
That's different. 

297
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:53,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's 
different. 

298
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,480
But it's lovely with high 
guests, which I love. 

299
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,600
I don't like. 
I don't like black pudding. 

300
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,040
I don't think it's got any 
flavour. 

301
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,240
Nothing. 
But I went to Scotland. 

302
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,520
Oh, if anybody's never tried 
haggis. 

303
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,720
Oh, and I come home and then I 
have to cake pie in it. 

304
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,320
But obviously I get it from a 
good place. 

305
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,680
Yeah. 
I mean, actually there's meat in

306
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,360
it though, right. 
And you're are you vegan? 

307
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,000
I'm vegan, so either you get 
vegan haggis, which is actually 

308
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,600
delicious, but it's there's 
saying that there's meat in it. 

309
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,000
It's a pretty hard stretch. 
There's bits of animal in it, 

310
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,040
but you know. 
Yeah, it's like, but it's still 

311
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,280
delicious. 
Sorry, sorry to all the vegans. 

312
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,800
You know, I, I mean, I used to 
eat it. 

313
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,800
I didn't stop eating animals 
because I don't like the way 

314
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,480
they tasted. 
I stopped it for a number of 

315
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,480
different reasons. 
So I get, you know, and black 

316
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,720
pudding is one of those things 
that I, I miss the taste of. 

317
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,280
There's a guy near us. 
He's basically a vegan butcher. 

318
00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,360
So he makes like, we have a, we 
have a type of sausage in 

319
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,000
Scotland called a Lauren sausage
or square sausage. 

320
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,400
And he makes that in a vegan 
style. 

321
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,000
And he thought he's been, he's 
been making some black pudding 

322
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,000
too, but it's not quite the 
same. 

323
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,480
But it'll do. 
Yeah, but it's vegan part of 

324
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,080
your spiritual practice as well,
because some, I mean, you 

325
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,400
probably haven't spoken about 
online and maybe people don't 

326
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,920
necessarily correlate the two, 
but you know, vibrationally, 

327
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,360
some people lean into that, 
don't they, as part of like 

328
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,800
hiring our vibration and not not
consuming meat. 

329
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,520
I've never been able to cover 
that, go over that threshold. 

330
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,200
I'm a big cheese fan. 
I think meat I could probably 

331
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,560
do, but cheese you'd have to 
claw out of my dead. 

332
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,960
The lifeless body there's. 
Some really good vegan cheeses 

333
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,360
out there. 
There's some really good vegan 

334
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:28,160
cheese. 
It's that really. 

335
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,080
It's that really I've. 
Been vegan for 15 years, so the 

336
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,920
first. 
Thing you've forgotten. 

337
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,400
You can't. 
You've forgotten what real 

338
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,480
cheese is like. 
Oh. 

339
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,880
Well, I don't think, well, I 
don't know, but the first types 

340
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,320
of vegan cheese that I tried 
were just like terrible. 

341
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,600
Like it was really bad. 
But I, I started, I started 

342
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,200
being vegan because of my 
daughter was in primary school 

343
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,840
at the time and she went to 
school Scottish Gaelic school. 

344
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,840
So there was lots of different 
religions within her classroom. 

345
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,520
There were loads of kids giving 
up chocolate for Lent. 

346
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,800
And she came home and said that 
she wanted to give up chocolate 

347
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,360
for Lent. 
And I explained to her that we 

348
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,120
weren't Catholic and she didn't 
have to do that. 

349
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,119
And she said she wanted to 
because she was supporting her 

350
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,520
friends and they were doing it 
too. 

351
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,960
So I said, right, that's cool. 
And she said, well, what are you

352
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,560
going to do? 
I was like, so I've been 

353
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,720
thinking about going vegan for a
while and I thought, oh, I can 

354
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:25,160
do it for 40 days. 
So I did it and it just entirely

355
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,840
changed the the depth of my 
practice and the depth of my 

356
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,040
connection. 
I just can't. 

357
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,160
There's 101 other reasons why 
I've remained vegan, but that's 

358
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,440
that definitely is one of them. 
Part of my practice is making 

359
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,400
sure that I live in right 
relation with things. 

360
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,480
So not taking it's like the kind
of foragers code. 

361
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,960
You don't take more than your 
than you, then you leave. 

362
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,560
And that felt like a big massive
turning key in my lock was that 

363
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,560
was really like a big, big part 
of me living in right relation 

364
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:58,080
was that I didn't use animals in
an exploitative way. 

365
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,360
I can. 
I can understand that because 

366
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,920
that was when I had a massive 
spiritual awakening, when I gave

367
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,400
up alcohol and I wasn't an 
alcoholic, but my brother was 

368
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,680
dying and I just couldn't face 
it. 

369
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,160
I just, I needed to live life 
without that substance. 

370
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,120
You know, the bottle of wine on 
a Friday night where you know 

371
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,280
that culture we all get into. 
So I gave up for 16 months in 

372
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,880
the end. 
And that was when my whole 

373
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,520
spiritual practice completely 
lifted off because my body was 

374
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,400
and my mind was free. 
So let everything in that needed

375
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,520
to come to me. 
And I suppose it's the same with

376
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,120
anything that we consume. 
You're still not going to make 

377
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:33,800
me give up cheese though, Not a 
chance. 

378
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:36,440
But I can I, but I can 
genuinely, I can imagine the 

379
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,960
benefit of it because I've seen 
it. 

380
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,360
I've seen even. 
I don't try and twist people's 

381
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:44,000
arm up their back to be vegan 
and it's a very personal thing 

382
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,200
for me. 
Do I think everyone should be? 

383
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,200
Maybe, but it's only because 
it's only because of warrior, 

384
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,200
it's because of what I've 
experienced. 

385
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,880
You know, it's it's like that 
would be like, you know, when 

386
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,600
you gave up drinking alcohol, 
you should pretend everyone 

387
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,000
should give that a bash and see 
what that feels like, you know, 

388
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,480
and because. 
They're like, oh, I don't, I 

389
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,480
don't drink that much, I said. 
It's not even a little bit. 

390
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,480
Just even if you have a drink 
once a week, when you cut it 

391
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,080
out, it's harder than you think.
And it's the change is 

392
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,160
completely different. 
But I did have a friend once who

393
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,840
used to have like a business 
card that they would leave at 

394
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,040
bars and pubs going, I'm really 
sorry, I'm vegan and I couldn't 

395
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,720
eat here. 
And I'm like oh, because she 

396
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,440
would only have because they 
only had chips on the menu and 

397
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:27,320
I. 
Just eat the chips. 

398
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,680
Yeah, but she'd leave the card 
behind going well, I couldn't 

399
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,960
eat here because you didn't 
cater for my veganness. 

400
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,160
But listen, that might not be 
the type of person that I am, 

401
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,640
but I absolutely ride on the 
coat tails of those people 

402
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,520
because it's those people that 
make those big change change and

403
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,160
then I get to eat there 
afterwards, so. 

404
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,520
That is bad. 
That is bad. 

405
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:50,320
But the thing about alcohol is I
always remember, you know, 

406
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:52,600
there's a big, there's been a 
big upsurge in people doing 

407
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,400
things like ayahuasca and you 
know, the LSD and DMT and all 

408
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,120
these things to kind of get 
connect yourself to the, to 

409
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:02,720
another, another plane. 
Alcohol is not any different for

410
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,840
me really from that. 
I think that when you use 

411
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,680
alcohol or drugs of any kind 
from a from a point of view of 

412
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,520
trying to get out of your mind. 
Put me like a bit just but just 

413
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,480
to take the take you to another 
place from it. 

414
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,440
It's kind of like getting taken 
on a journey, but in handcuffs. 

415
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,240
Whereas when you get out of your
mind through meditation or 

416
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,600
drumming, I've just experienced 
my first drum journey that was 

417
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,360
it's amazing. 
I actually I can't understand 

418
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,880
how for 44 years, that's the and
that's the first time that 

419
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,680
that's come across my path. 
It's just. 

420
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,160
Yeah, I did a drum berthing. 
So I birthed my own drum, which 

421
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,000
my wife likes to take the piss 
out of. 

422
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,000
I'm like, look, I'm, I mean, 
maybe that wouldn't be for you 

423
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,200
because you're vegan, but it's 
using that hide and bringing 

424
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,640
life back into it. 
But it's not for everybody 

425
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,160
drumming because if you're not, 
if you're not emotionally in the

426
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,840
right place, drums really shift 
energy in you. 

427
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,040
And I did resist it for quite a 
long time because I used to go 

428
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,000
to a lot of circles and 
communities and I could feel the

429
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,440
energy and because I've been 
grieving for feels like forever 

430
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,080
my stupid brother. 
I couldn't deal with it. 

431
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,960
But now I'm in a place where I 
find it so and I get to go to 

432
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,640
Ave. free somewhere around the 
stones and I drum with loads of 

433
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,800
other people. 
Sorry I know you were mid 

434
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,280
sentence but I got really 
excited in like 2 drums. 

435
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,840
Now I love them. 
But when you meditate or you go 

436
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,800
on a drum journey or you do 
something or some repetitive 

437
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,680
movement where that gets you out
of your thinking mind, it's like

438
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,680
you're going there voluntarily. 
While people might use things 

439
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,760
like LSD or DMT or alcohol or 
whatever to get themselves out 

440
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,480
of their thinking mind, it's 
you're there in handcuffs and 

441
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,920
you're there, you're beholden to
it until the effects that wear 

442
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,320
off. 
Whereas when you do it or you're

443
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,120
trying to connect or come out of
your thinking mind and connect 

444
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:50,560
to the bigger picture 
voluntarily or through through 

445
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,800
some sort of process, it's a 
much gentler experience in my, 

446
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,240
in my experience. 
But the drop, the drumming, can 

447
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,560
I just see that We went to 
Kilmarton Glen as part of ours. 

448
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,760
We were in a women's circle and 
we went to Kilmarton Glen to go.

449
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,640
There's some standings to 
Kilmarton Glen is one of these 

450
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,000
places where I think in like the
50s they found about 30 or 40 

451
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,760
stone circles with like carvings
in the circles in the stones. 

452
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,160
And since they've been 
unearthing it, there's 900 now. 

453
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,280
So it's just this the energy in 
this Glen in Scotland is just 

454
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:33,120
absolutely stupendous. 
It's just any lay by you stop 

455
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,280
and you go out and stand and 
there's a standing stone or a 

456
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:43,280
massive big sheet of rock with 
desk and cup marks that's been 

457
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,280
worn into them and they're just,
they're beautiful. 

458
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,440
But the, the women's circle, we 
went to Colmart and Glen. 

459
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,240
We stood with her standing 
stones for a while. 

460
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:55,640
We sat and drummed wasn't, 
wasn't a drum journey, but the, 

461
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,640
the woman who was running that 
for us, she drummed for a while 

462
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,320
round the stone circle and then 
we went to a burial Cairn. 

463
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,560
So burial Cairns are these holes
that have been dug in the 

464
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,400
ground. 
They're, they're shored up with 

465
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,400
like big huge bits of stone and 
then they're covered, There's a 

466
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,200
slab on the top and then they're
covered over with loads and 

467
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,760
loads and loads of rocks. 
And this video Cairn had been 

468
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,840
there for a couple of 1000 
years, three 4000 years. 

469
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,520
So there was no bones left in 
it. 

470
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,400
It's been restored by 
archaeologists to kind of put it

471
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,360
back into a state so that people
can visit and have a look at it.

472
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,920
There's, there's hundreds and 
hundreds of Cairns that are in 

473
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,920
Scotland, but this one in 
particular, you can go inside, 

474
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,680
the six of us went down inside 
this Cairn. 

475
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,880
So you're in a Chamber of stone.
She drummed us for about an 

476
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:47,760
hour. 
And I've never experienced, I do

477
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,600
a bit of head riding, which is 
like, I enjoy doing that, but it

478
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,640
takes me a while to to get 
there. 

479
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,480
And sometimes it's for 5 minutes
and I'm out again. 

480
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,000
But this was like 1/2 hour of me
just with my eyes shut just 

481
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,320
being like watching all of this 
stuff happening right about me. 

482
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,440
The messages from it were just 
absolutely dumbfounding to me. 

483
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,720
And I can't, I feel a little bit
grief stricken that I've not 

484
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,160
been doing it for longer. 
And so, yeah, I think I I've got

485
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,480
a set of bongos over there. 
I've got I've got bongos as 

486
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,520
well. 
I've got, I've got like a whole,

487
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,400
I've got a rain stick. 
I've got all sorts of sound 

488
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,880
stuff going on. 
I've got stuff behind me. 

489
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,400
But I've got 2 drums now. 
I've got a deer and a goat and I

490
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,840
the. 
Thing that I didn't understand 

491
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,240
about it, when I've listened to 
drumming tracks like on YouTube 

492
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,400
or whatever, I'm like, yeah, 
there's a drum banging. 

493
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,400
I couldn't get the and she kept 
talking about listening to your 

494
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,680
drums song, like the singing, 
the song that comes from your 

495
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,520
drum. 
But because of the vibrations 

496
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,880
happening, it's just this steady
drum beat and the vibration 

497
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,760
coming off the drums in your 
ear. 

498
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,360
It sounds like that's going on 
for ages. 

499
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,200
It's like a singing ball. 
And I was just, it was 

500
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,440
astounding. 
I can't think, you know, I 

501
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,680
really, really enjoyed it and I 
can't, I'm actually, I've not 

502
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,800
spoken about that online or 
anything yet, but yeah, I'm 

503
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,800
really, I just thought that it 
was, I'm still processing it. 

504
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,640
I think that's the thing. 
It was just a big shift for 

505
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,680
sure. 
Yeah, well, yeah, I've been 

506
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,160
drumming for a little while and 
because I go down to Avery, 

507
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,960
Avery's like 20 minutes from me.
I've got that biggest stone 

508
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,120
circle in the world down there, 
which is just incredible. 

509
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,880
But the journeys that we go on 
as a women that all come 

510
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,880
together. 
And in the last podcast, 

511
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,080
actually, I think it there after
this. 

512
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,520
But I spoke about the last one I
went to. 

513
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,360
Oh no, it wasn't. 
Actually, I went last weekend, 

514
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,720
but I I found a mouse and it 
died and there was all sorts of 

515
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,000
grief I didn't share on social, 
so it was awful. 

516
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,200
Anonymous and Vicky knew about 
it because I rang them and I 

517
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,480
should cry in a few days. 
But I sat in the circle of women

518
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,400
sobbing and I don't apologize 
for that anymore. 

519
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,520
I've reached a point in my life 
where I'm really accepting of 

520
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,520
all my emotions, even the really
ugly, throaty ones, but then 

521
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,760
strumming with other people and 
I feel like the energy of the 

522
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,480
drum holds you. 
Not only have you got the energy

523
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,560
of their, the women, but we're 
all, and they were all really 

524
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,160
joyous and happy. 
The sun was out and we were all 

525
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,840
dancing. 
The mouse died. 

526
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,560
I mean, the mouse died, but it 
was more about my brother Scott 

527
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,240
and his ashes the week after. 
So it's more about that. 

528
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,280
And, you know, all the symbology
associated with it. 

529
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,400
But but yeah, the drumming is 
every time I go, there's just 

530
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,720
something different. 
And now because of that and 

531
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,560
because I go to Avebury, I've 
started to connect to dragon 

532
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,720
magic, which I never thought I 
would do. 

533
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,400
So that's a whole it just our 
paths and our practices and 

534
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,640
craft just evolve all of the 
time. 

535
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,880
And I always kind of went, Oh 
no, that's far too modern, 

536
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,000
modern of practice for me to 
look at. 

537
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,320
But it's it's called me and it 
got me. 

538
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,960
And yeah, so that's a whole new 
rabbit hole I'm going down at 

539
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,040
the moment as well. 
I mean Anonymous is Dragons, 

540
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,520
unicorns and fairies all day so.
Yeah, I'm in, I'm in. 

541
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,000
Listen, the Unicorn is the 
national animal of Scotland, so 

542
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,720
I'm with him. 
Oh well, you're not going to 

543
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,240
like me in the keep or cut then.
I forgot about that. 

544
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,240
I forgot about that because I 
Anyway, we'll wait for that 

545
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,880
little little section. 
It's all right because I think 

546
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,120
it follows nicely after what you
were describing about your 

547
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:12,640
experience with the Cairns. 
Have I pronounced that 

548
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:20,120
correctly? 
Is what role do you think the 

549
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:28,520
spirit of place, landscape and 
history plays in your craft and 

550
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,120
how important is it for you 
it's. 

551
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,560
It's the, it's probably one of 
the most important things. 

552
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,960
Spirit of Place underpins 
everything I do. 

553
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,000
I could easily have been that 
Scottish witch or that whatever 

554
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,360
kind of witch, but I am very 
specifically that Glasgow witch 

555
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:47,440
because the spirit of this city 
that I live in is absolutely 

556
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,280
running through me and I tap 
into that. 

557
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,240
I tap into her energy all the 
time. 

558
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,400
It is, I think spirit of places.
We we very similar to you guys 

559
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,880
when you have your own language 
in Scottish Gallic, all of our 

560
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:04,560
place names are really tightly 
associated with the land. 

561
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,760
So Glasgow, for example, in 
Gallic is in Glasgow, which 

562
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,000
means the green hollow. 
So I don't know. 

563
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:12,840
Sounds beautiful that doesn't 
it? 

564
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,320
It sounds, I mean no offense to 
the word Glasgow, but it sounds 

565
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,160
so beautiful in Gallic. 
And it's just Glasgow. 

566
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,000
So it's just my daughter Will 
absolutely come through me for 

567
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,640
pronouncing that wrong and like 
just a tiny bit. 

568
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,440
But it's it means that the green
hollow. 

569
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,200
And colloquially we call Glasgow
our deer green place because 

570
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,920
we've got so many parks. 
But actually it's probably gone 

571
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,680
before that time where before 
Glasgow was even a city that was

572
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520
this beautiful green place to 
stay. 

573
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,600
And if you were to walk through 
Glasgow City centre today, you 

574
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,880
wouldn't think that it's a, it's
a major city. 

575
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,760
It's you know. 
But I know that underneath the 

576
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,320
bricks and the pavements and the
sandstone buildings and the 

577
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,720
marble in our City Hall that at 
it's heart it's a green place 

578
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,200
because the name Glasgow tells 
me so. 

579
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,240
So I know that, you know, that 
I'm constantly connected to the 

580
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,960
land. 
I think that it's we are made of

581
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,240
it. 
Like when people talk about 

582
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,120
going into nature, yeah, I'm 
always like, well, you are 

583
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,280
nature. 
What do you mean? 

584
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,880
You know, you could be in a 
concrete box and be in nature. 

585
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,440
So. 
But yeah. 

586
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,000
And again, one of the, one of 
the areas of my practice that I 

587
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,120
don't share an awful lot online,
I use what I call they're called

588
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,320
skiri stains, which just means 
colourful stones. 

589
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,760
One represents water and to me 
emotion. 

590
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,080
One represents the sky and to me
spirit. 

591
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:54,760
And then one represents earth 
and to me that's just the, the 

592
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,640
land that we're on. 
So I use, I use the skinny 

593
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,080
scenes quite often in a kind of 
divination, I suppose. 

594
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,000
So sometimes if there's 
anything, if I feel a bit out of

595
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,480
sorts or I just need a bit of 
guidance on something, I'll use 

596
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,280
those stones to try and pinpoint
what which of them is out of 

597
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,120
kilter with the others. 
And often it's the it's the land

598
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,440
one that comes up. 
So when that happens, I'll take 

599
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,680
this with me and I'll disappear 
off out into the world. 

600
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,040
And it's more so that spirit 
just telling me get out from in 

601
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,120
your basement, you little house 
Hobbit, and start being cut the 

602
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,840
being in the cartoon. 
That reminds me of the Kerodwin 

603
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,040
3 cauldrons, right? 
It's it's like a similar story. 

604
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,760
I mean, it's not chakras, but 
it's like those energy centers 

605
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,000
and you're using it. 
I mean, I don't want to put 

606
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,360
words in your mouth, but that's 
what you're saying. 

607
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,680
It's like an energy center. 
You're going, ah, right. 

608
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,080
I'm not grounded. 
That Stone's just told me 

609
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,440
because it's flipped on its 
side. 

610
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,600
So I need to go and put my toes 
in the ground. 

611
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,920
And it's not necessarily that's 
that that's been written 

612
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,880
anywhere or anywhere that I can 
think about referencing that 

613
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,360
back to. 
But in Scottish culture, this we

614
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,880
didn't, we didn't have four 
quarters. 

615
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,400
We had the sea, the, the, the 
earth, the sky, the sea. 

616
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,560
That was our three, you know, 
that was a layer of that was a 

617
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,680
layer of our, you know, keeping 
our compass, I suppose. 

618
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,640
So the threes are a big part of 
Celtic culture and it's no 

619
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,640
different here. 
So, and our three is the sky, 

620
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:27,000
the land and the sea. 
But, but that like in, in my 

621
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,320
practice, I know water is in 
motion. 

622
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,960
I know that the land is the the 
material and I know the sky is 

623
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,160
spirit. 
So that when I use those skiddy 

624
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,480
stains, I just that that's how I
use them. 

625
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,480
And although they're used for 
other things too. 

626
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,560
So like, for example, if you 
would, if I were to have done 

627
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,480
that and this this spirit stone 
came out, for example, the sky 

628
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,960
stone came out, then I might use
that stone and then use the 

629
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,120
water to do some sort of 
cleansing, healing or something 

630
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,280
along the lines of that. 
So you're imbuing the stone with

631
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,360
the power of the particular. 
Yeah. 

632
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,600
You know, you're imbuing the 
water, sorry, with the power of 

633
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,880
the particular stone. 
Or you could just Add all three 

634
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,160
of them into it and make it like
super juice. 

635
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,840
Yeah, it's, it's one of those 
like unlock moments, isn't it? 

636
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,680
When you, when you work, I mean,
I work 1:00 to 1:00 with people 

637
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,920
and, and everybody wants 
guidance and they want to be 

638
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,360
told. 
But actually it's unlocking 

639
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,360
what's true and authentic to 
you. 

640
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,040
And you've learnt things along 
the way and you understand what 

641
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,400
that means for you. 
But this is part of your 

642
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,280
personal practice and Anon and 
Vicki and I talk about this a 

643
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,800
lot like you, there's a lot 
people don't know about my 

644
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,280
practice online because it's 
part of my personal practice. 

645
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,960
And Anon, we know, obviously I 
say anonymous, which is best for

646
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,640
all of us really. 
And Vicky and Vicky's the same 

647
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,520
online. 
She does green witchcraft and 

648
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,920
she's in a wheelchair and you 
know, she comes across like she 

649
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,400
says all softly and nicely. 
And she is, she's lovely. 

650
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,280
She's also a very balanced 
practitioner, so she doesn't 

651
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,200
mind working with some of what 
would be perceived as as more 

652
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,720
challenging energies as well. 
But that's part of her personal.

653
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,960
She doesn't share it. 
But that doesn't she's grown up 

654
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,960
a witch, same as same as Annon. 
But yeah, it it's I, I feel the 

655
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,440
same. 
To be honest with that when it 

656
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,000
comes to working with other 
energies, and you know, when 

657
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,680
people speak about painful magic
online quite often. 

658
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,400
And I'm really aware that I've 
been sharing my practice for one

659
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,960
year and if I was talking to 
myself one year into practice 

660
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,320
about painful magic, I just 
would back off and I wouldn't 

661
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,000
even do it anymore. 
So I wouldn't speak about that 

662
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,720
because it's maybe a bit too. 
It's like, it's like trying. 

663
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,640
I always I like to associate 
witchcraft to cooking quite a 

664
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,560
lot because everyone eats right.
So they understand how you how 

665
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,240
you get that energy into your 
body working with painful magic,

666
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,520
or I don't even like calling it 
that. 

667
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,480
It's more like just this magic 
to me. 

668
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,040
So, you know, I have an, an 
effigy of a certain orange guy 

669
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,000
hanging from a tree near my 
house. 

670
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,640
And it's not that I'm doing it 
because I that is is for there's

671
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,120
a greater purpose. 
You know, I, I'm a nice person. 

672
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,280
I would never walk up to a 
person in the street and thump 

673
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,120
them, but I'd love to see that, 
by the way. 

674
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,800
Just make sure you record it. 
You do that would definitely go 

675
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,560
viral. 
But if I was a. 

676
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:21,679
Witch loses her shit, can you? 
Imagine, but if I was being 

677
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:25,880
attacked or I was watching 
someone be attacked and I was 

678
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,480
there presently being able to 
help, then I would physically 

679
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,360
intervene with that. 
I'm not just going to stand at 

680
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,960
the side and be like, I'm going 
to love and like that person to 

681
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,560
to well them to stop doing it. 
I'd physically intervene. 

682
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,880
So when it comes to being full 
magic or just this magic, I will

683
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,199
do spells to to to energetically
intervene in different aspects. 

684
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:48,840
And I don't shy away from 
talking about it. 

685
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,760
I just don't. 
There's so much nuance around it

686
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,239
and I don't I can't fit in a 3 
minute video and social media. 

687
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,880
Is great at glamorizing it, 
right? 

688
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,000
And like you say, there's nuance
and it's much deeper than it's 

689
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,480
made to be as well. 
And, and yeah, I think, yeah, 

690
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,000
it's a, it's a real challenge, 
isn't it, manoeuvring some of 

691
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,120
that on, on socialism. 
It's like this whole. 

692
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,240
Hex in the moon stuff. 
Do you remember that happened? 

693
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,640
Yeah. 
How dare they? 

694
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,760
And he was my best friend. 
But yeah, so you can't have any.

695
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,720
Ethical lines Do you think that 
you would not absolutely cross 

696
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,440
within your practice? 
I'm sure there are. 

697
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,440
I can't think of any off the top
of my head. 

698
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,880
I don't, you know, there's not, 
I don't know, maybe I can just 

699
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,400
put spin on something to make it
have a good at like have a 

700
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,320
positive thought process in the 
head. 

701
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,840
Doesn't matter what it is, but 
I'm sure there are. 

702
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,960
I mean, I certainly, I certainly
would never begin a working 

703
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,440
without understanding how to 
undo the working. 

704
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,480
I'm like that. 
Yeah, 100%. 

705
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,120
So I I. 
I try to start with the I try to

706
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,200
start with the undoing of it, 
because even if you mean 

707
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,040
something to be permanent, this,
you know that that's, that's 

708
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,800
your mindset now while you're 
doing that spell work. 

709
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,520
And you know, in six months 
time, 10 years time, that might 

710
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,920
change. 
And we had this conversation. 

711
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,400
With Vicki and she was like, no,
well, if you're doing it, you've

712
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,120
already decided and then you 
have to fully commit, she said. 

713
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,400
So why are you trying to get out
of it? 

714
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,760
Basically, I think me and you on
and we're both saying going, oh,

715
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,040
we kind of want to like put a 
get out clause in there just in 

716
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,800
case. 
We always have that. 

717
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,800
I always have that. 
Just as what? 

718
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,720
Like how, you know, Gio was 
explaining. 

719
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,000
It's like, I always like 
justice. 

720
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,560
Work for me isn't always 
necessarily the last plan of 

721
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,000
action. 
It's not always, it's incredibly

722
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,080
important for me to listen and 
understand my emotions, but I 

723
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,480
always sleep on something, you 
know? 

724
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,520
I will always do divination on 
something because I'm, because 

725
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,760
I, I can say this because I'm 
Welsh, but I am very, very 

726
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,040
passionate, you know, and I'm, I
go from north to 60 incredibly 

727
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,240
quickly. 
So I, I know me as a person, I'd

728
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,160
be like, right, let's do some 
justice work. 

729
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:12,240
I think it's so important to 
rest, to ground, to centre and 

730
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:14,240
anything. 
I do like that, I would always 

731
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:17,440
put a clause in it because just 
as you said, Gio, there's, 

732
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,000
there's so many consequences. 
There's so many things that you 

733
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,720
have to think out with the box 
as well. 

734
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:26,200
Sometimes I know, especially if 
if someone is like the main 

735
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,240
breadwinner of the family, but I
will always put something in 

736
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:33,560
there to say right. 
In 10 years time I might not 

737
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,520
feel the same as what I do now 
and perhaps I feel that justice 

738
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,640
work has now been done and I 
think that's I think that. 

739
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,000
That's really important. 
And the thing about, you know, 

740
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,560
not being reactive, I'm not a 
reactive witch. 

741
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,080
I don't, you know, I'll sit and 
Mull things over for days and 

742
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,480
weeks before I decide to do any,
any spell work. 

743
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,880
And again, a lot of my practice 
is about being in right relation

744
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,720
and that comes to understanding 
how like what you're putting out

745
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:07,760
there versus what it is that 
you're trying to change. 

746
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,840
You need to have them, they need
to be both being balanced. 

747
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,880
You can't like over egg the 
pudding, I suppose. 

748
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,720
And you know, for, you know, the
the minor inconveniences of your

749
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,080
life. 
But yeah, so I'm like, I 

750
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,360
definitely, I definitely don't. 
I'm not a reactive person in 

751
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,760
life anyway. 
So I will go and think about 

752
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,240
things before doing anything I'm
going to. 

753
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,400
If someone asks me what I'm 
having for dinner, I need a good

754
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,640
hour and a half before I decide 
what I'm going to eat. 

755
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:34,840
Oh, so it's not that you're not?
Reactive. 

756
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,200
You're a procrastinator. 
Like should I? 

757
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,320
Would I? 
How would you I just, I'm, I'm 

758
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,240
just really very aware that I'm 
a, I'm a spiritual being inside 

759
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,840
the confines of a human body. 
Yeah. 

760
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,080
And so I, I don't see all 
things. 

761
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,680
I don't see the outcomes of all 
of the things that could ever 

762
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,360
possibly happen. 
And I'm aware of that and I'm 

763
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,680
accepting of that. 
So I you need to be teachable 

764
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,960
and you need to understand that 
things change. 

765
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,800
And, and I always remember, I 
don't know where I, I don't know

766
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,840
where I heard this, but I always
remember hearing you should 

767
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,680
never conjure something you 
can't banish. 

768
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,880
And I think that that's just 
clever. 

769
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:15,560
I don't think that that's, you 
know, not leaning into it. 

770
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,960
I think that that's, if you're 
going to conjure something, 

771
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,440
then, you know, you need to be 
able to banish that thing too. 

772
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:21,640
Yeah, I know. 
It's such an. 

773
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,760
Interesting and difficult topic 
as well to teach beginners 

774
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,800
coming to the craft. 
I literally I left somebody a 

775
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,440
voice note. 
I think people leave me messages

776
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,480
on Instagram and go, Oh my God, 
girls left me a voice note. 

777
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,040
But it's just easier. 
But they were saying like, I'm 

778
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,840
really fearful that it's going 
to come back and get me like, or

779
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,440
something's going to come and 
hit me back. 

780
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,240
And I was like, look, this is my
understanding of it. 

781
00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:45,360
You know, you've got the Wiccan 
threefold law and you've also 

782
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,040
got, you know, religious and 
Christianity beliefs that we 

783
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,480
brought out with sometimes that 
religious ingrained in us to 

784
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,960
always fear, you know, the fear 
of God, right? 

785
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,720
There's consequences to our 
actions. 

786
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,560
So I said that's one train of 
thought. 

787
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,040
But actually, as you educate 
yourself more, and that's the 

788
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,400
thing I say most just learn more
than you'll feel more 

789
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,480
comfortable. 
But it is about balance. 

790
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,600
You don't have to do justice 
magic if it doesn't sit right 

791
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:09,520
with you. 
You don't even have to do a 

792
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,560
bloody spell. 
I mean, it's nice. 

793
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,680
I, I like it, it's empowering. 
And yeah, it's, it's a fun part 

794
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,120
of the, the, the craft. 
But you don't have to. 

795
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,680
But yeah, the painful thing can 
really put people off because it

796
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,800
is so glamorised. 
I don't know, I think. 

797
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,880
Because we, we're, we're being 
women and witches. 

798
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,320
I was just speaking about this 
other day. 

799
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,760
You know when you when you think
about wise old men with pointy 

800
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,840
hats, they're all sweet and 
wizardly, but when you Gandalf. 

801
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,040
I watch that on the weekend. 
Lord of the Rings. 

802
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:43,400
Don't know why when you think 
about old. 

803
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,760
Women with pointy hats. 
Then they come and eat your 

804
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,160
children and and cut off your 
penises. 

805
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,840
Yeah, so. 
I think we're we're, we're kind 

806
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,560
of given a bit of a bum steer 
before we even get out the 

807
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:55,960
gates. 
You know that we're going to be 

808
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,760
doing bad things, but you need 
to think about who you are as a 

809
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,480
person. 
Like are you a good person? 

810
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,040
Are you a bad person? 
Like people always say to me, 

811
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,240
are you a good witch? 
You're a bad witch. 

812
00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:08,520
And I'm like, well, some days I 
forget it's the full moon. 

813
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,800
Like, you know, so maybe I'm a 
bad witch, but I'm not a bad. 

814
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,480
No one ever has asked me 
outright am IA good person or am

815
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,280
IA bad person because my actions
denate what type of person I am.

816
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,920
I don't I don't see that being 
any different within within the 

817
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,240
craft and someone was physically
in danger and I didn't do 

818
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:32,000
something to help them. 
I would think that that would be

819
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,920
would be being a bad person. 
So you know, when it comes to 

820
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,720
that from an energetic point of 
view, same, same thing. 

821
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:42,520
I suppose I just wouldn't. 
But I think what I know one has 

822
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,600
said about making sure you're 
not being reactive is is good 

823
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,640
because if you weren't, if you 
wouldn't do that in in mundane 

824
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,720
life, you know someone said 
something and before that's out 

825
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:56,200
their mouth, you've had a quick 
throat punch in there, then you.

826
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,800
That. 
Say, if you're not going to do 

827
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,520
that in mundane life, then you 
don't do that in your magical 

828
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,040
life either. 
Exactly. 

829
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,680
Exactly. 
OK, I want to ask. 

830
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,960
Vicky's question because it's a 
really good one and she's really

831
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,360
sorry she couldn't make it this 
evening, But what's the smallest

832
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,360
or most ordinary moment that 
you've suddenly thought this is 

833
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,440
what witchcraft actually is? 
My dad died in. 2021 And I've 

834
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:27,120
obviously been practicing my 
whole well, since I was 14. 

835
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:28,800
I'm practicing all the way 
through. 

836
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,760
And I would absolutely have been
like, you know, throwing my hat 

837
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:32,640
in the ring. 
Yes, I'm a witch. 

838
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,600
I practice all the time. 
You know, I observe all the all 

839
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,200
the sabbats and I do the stuff 
that witches are supposed to do.

840
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:45,080
And I had an ancestor altar that
I maybe like put some flowers on

841
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,000
when it was my gran's birthday 
or you know, occasionally put a 

842
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,200
bit incense on there. 
But like I've got another couple

843
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,760
altars around the house where 
it's not like a work, a constant

844
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,680
working altar. 
It's maybe just they're there 

845
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,280
seasonally and I do things with 
him seasonally. 

846
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:03,520
And I started making my dad 
after when he'd passed away, I 

847
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,840
really missed having my cups of 
coffee with my dad. 

848
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,280
So I started making cups of 
coffee for him really sweet 

849
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,480
because he had three sugars in 
his coffee and sat them on my 

850
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,600
ancestor altar just as a way of 
trying to work through the grief

851
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,960
of that and not having him, You 
know, I was like allowed myself 

852
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,520
that kind of 10-15 minutes in 
the morning to like be in the 

853
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,440
grief of it. 
And there came a point and the 

854
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,000
constant repetition of that 
pattern because I needed it at 

855
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,080
the time. 
I really needed to do it, to 

856
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:39,560
have that crutch of support of, 
you know, because your dad's 

857
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,880
died, right? 
My husband's parents were both 

858
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,880
still alive at that time. 
I can't go and cry to my mum 

859
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,840
because her husband's just died.
My sister's feeling it as badly 

860
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,520
as I am. 
And you know, you don't want to 

861
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,560
be a burden on anyone. 
So you're trying to process the 

862
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,920
emotion of you though being a 
fatherless daughter. 

863
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,280
And so the and the person who I 
would have spoken to about that 

864
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,160
was my dad. 
So I sat at my ancestral altar 

865
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,560
every day for about a month. 
Georgia took him a coffee in the

866
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,160
morning. 
I sat down and I said all the 

867
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,440
things that just all the things 
I was feeling. 

868
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,360
At some point that stopped 
feeling like a crutch and it 

869
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,680
started feeling like an 
expanding moment. 

870
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,960
And then I was leaving tobacco 
for my grandparents and I have a

871
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,840
pipe there for my granddad. 
And I had, I put a little carved

872
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,200
thing that I have up there to 
represent the ancestors that I 

873
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,840
don't, that I never knew. 
Have some, I've put some 

874
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,200
pictures off of my grandparents.
And that then for the last six 

875
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,600
years, that's been my daily 
practice being there. 

876
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,200
And it was, and it's been such a
massive shift and how I go about

877
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,560
my day because that's my, that's
my first. 

878
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,040
And I don't, if I, if there's 
any, if there's mornings where 

879
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:55,440
it's not happened because you 
know, the dog's been sick or you

880
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,560
know, there's been something 
going on and I can't get there 

881
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:58,960
with a coffee. 
It's not the end of the world 

882
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,280
because I know that that's part 
of my practice and it wouldn't 

883
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,240
look like anything. 
It's literally, I make a coffee 

884
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:10,040
in the morning. 
I have two cups and I take 1 and

885
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,080
I have a sit down on a chair. 
And if you were to be observing 

886
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,360
that from the outside, it just 
looks like a woman who's made a 

887
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,280
cup of coffee for someone who's 
not turned up yet. 

888
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,640
But they did, they have turned 
up and I'm having a full 

889
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,040
dialogue. 
And that's been, that's been one

890
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,320
of the most grinding and 
affirming parts of my practice 

891
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,920
and ancestor veneration has. 
And it wasn't part of my 

892
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:39,000
practice in such a solidifying 
way right up until 2021. 

893
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,320
And my dad kind of opened the 
door for that. 

894
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,560
And now I have access to all 
these ancestors that I didn't 

895
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,200
really understand were there 
before for me. 

896
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,880
Like I knew like you, you know, 
you think you've got your 

897
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,760
ancestors there, but I'm in 
conversation with them on a 

898
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,560
daily basis. 
And I feel my grandparents and I

899
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,920
feel the unknown ancestors. 
And when I was contemplating 

900
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,440
filming my videos, I was, I 
wondered where it was best to do

901
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:07,720
it. 
And they told me here. 

902
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,480
So that's where I film my videos
every day because they told me 

903
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,360
to. 
It sounds so nourishing. 

904
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:17,040
Gio, it sounds like such a 
nourishing part of your 

905
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,880
practice, but part of your 
identity and your 

906
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,640
acknowledgement of everybody 
that came before you. 

907
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:30,160
I think that's such a beautiful,
like you said, simplistic ritual

908
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:36,120
role that you do and it's OK if 
it's not done on on on some 

909
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,960
days, you know, bless you, you, 
you you have my condolences. 

910
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,880
But how you explained that was 
just so nourishing. 

911
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,200
It sounds a beautiful practice. 
Yeah, I'm not an. 

912
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,400
Envious person particularly, but
I do. 

913
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:52,160
There's something about that 
that I wish I could lean into. 

914
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,560
I've I've spoken about this 
before, but I don't communicate 

915
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,200
with my brother. 
I can't face it. 

916
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,200
I'm not ready or sleeping dead. 
That's when I started social 

917
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,480
media about the same time. 
So just over a year ago. 

918
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,360
That was literally the reason I 
started, just to avoid it, 

919
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,480
right? 
He was 44. 

920
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,680
It's not fair. 
And I literally probably in the 

921
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,360
last six months, I've got 
pictures up there which are 

922
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,680
amazing. 
So I'm here with him every day, 

923
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,280
but I never, never actually 
never. 

924
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,440
Maybe once or twice I speak to 
him and I'm a witch. 

925
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,480
I know that's possible. 
It's part of my practice to 

926
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:22,920
commune with spirit. 
I'm just not. 

927
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,400
And Vicki actually lost her 
sister years ago, but she was 

928
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,560
also quite young and she said 
she still doesn't communicate 

929
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,120
with with hers either. 
So it's amazing that you've 

930
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,680
managed to build it in. 
I'm just still avoiding. 

931
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,520
And I know it. 
I know, I know. 

932
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,200
But the thing about that is too.
Gayle is that that was my dad 

933
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,200
that died. 
And that's the order of things. 

934
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,440
Yeah, it's supposed. 
To go before. 

935
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,840
You, you do, you know, and it's 
really difficult to think about 

936
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,160
tragedy, I suppose my dad was, 
he died. 

937
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,000
You know, I could have had 
another 76 years with my dad and

938
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,920
that wouldn't have been enough. 
But he did a full life and that,

939
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,000
and I've got a bit of, there's a
bit of ease in knowing that. 

940
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,600
That's the cycle. 
But your brother was 44. 

941
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,680
So I, he did it on purpose. 
He died. 

942
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,360
On purpose to wind me up. 
It was like, there's 10, there's

943
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,120
ten months between us. 
But you know, you know, there's 

944
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,480
not many people I can say this 
to. 

945
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,840
And thankfully not a lot of my 
family listen to anything I do 

946
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:23,600
on social media, on my podcast. 
But I also, I also take a lot of

947
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,760
comfort in knowing that he was 
supposed to go as part of my 

948
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,520
life lesson. 
And he evolved way too quickly, 

949
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:35,040
which is why he went sooner. 
And not many people outside of a

950
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,240
spiritual path are able to 
accept that. 

951
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:39,440
Or they may just go, Oh, that's 
how she's coping with it. 

952
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,600
That's that's how she but I know
that and he knew that too. 

953
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,080
He said, you can talk to me all 
you want. 

954
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,560
I won't answer back. 
And that's probably part of the 

955
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,720
part of the resistance in me as 
well, knowing what he said, 

956
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:52,800
because he knew he was going to 
go, which wasn't. 

957
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:59,240
Even, like whether you talk to 
your ancestors or not, or you 

958
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:02,480
talk to your beloved dead or 
not, they're still there. 

959
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,640
Yeah. 
You know they're still guiding. 

960
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,080
Your path, and they're still 
giving you the nudges that you 

961
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:11,680
need to, you know, you don't 
have to be in communication with

962
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,800
them to know that they're, 
they're like threading a little 

963
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,000
net underneath you to keep you 
held. 

964
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,240
Yeah, I've seen, I've seen a 
mop. 

965
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:23,160
Yesterday and he hated moths and
moths are my sign that he's 

966
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,400
listening and I needed a bit of 
a message because he's always 

967
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,400
thought moths are going to come 
in and eat your brains when you 

968
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,360
sleep. 
So he he was really. 

969
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,320
Actually quite scared of them 
because he was a big baby but 

970
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,720
yeah so I've seen him a 
beautiful cinnabar moth 

971
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:39,040
yesterday and it was just at the
right time and and that stuff 

972
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,560
brings me comfort and. 
And this part of my practice and

973
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,920
I'm. 
But yeah yours is absolutely 

974
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,920
beautiful, absolutely amazing. 
I'm just really lucky that I. 

975
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,240
Find to do it. 
That was all. 

976
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:51,080
You know, I could be here six 
years down the line still being 

977
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,840
a witch and not having ever done
that. 

978
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:59,400
And yeah, it was. 
It's definitely, it's definitely

979
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,000
solidified my practice. 
I don't think I'd actually be 

980
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,080
doing the social media stuff 
that I do if it wasn't for that,

981
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,520
to be honest, because I don't 
know, there's a bit of it's 

982
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,200
scary to put yourself out into 
the world the way that the way 

983
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:13,800
that you do when you're on 
social media. 

984
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:20,240
And I don't have, I feel as if I
have got enough, like I'm solid 

985
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:24,360
enough in my practice that I 
don't need to wear an armour to 

986
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,520
protect it because I know what, 
you know, what, how I am and 

987
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,720
what I'm doing. 
And I'll, I'll shade it openly. 

988
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:32,880
Well, I I honestly. 
Thought that you're just a pipe 

989
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,360
smoker. 
I thought, Oh my God, there she 

990
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,560
is, toughen her pipe. 
I mean, I do smoke to pipe. 

991
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,320
I do smoke. 
Smoke a pipe, do you? 

992
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:41,880
Yeah, but not tobacco. 
I don't. 

993
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,600
I'll never use. 
I'll maybe use a bit of mugwort 

994
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:50,840
or in fact, I was in, I was in 
Denver just recently and they 

995
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,520
have an apothecary there and I 
got a smoking blend of 

996
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,680
marshmallow root and valerian 
and all sorts of things. 

997
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,600
Oh it. 
Stinks though, don't it? 

998
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,640
Valerian honks. 
Man, it's. 

999
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,520
Just it's absolutely great it. 
Does the job, it does the job. 

1000
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,680
I can't. 
Like if somebody asks me to make

1001
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,600
them like a sleep pouch and I'm 
like, oh, Valerian's so good, 

1002
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,600
but it really smells. 
I'm so no matter how much 

1003
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,120
lavender I bring in it, it's not
going to get rid of that stench.

1004
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,640
It's like. 
My, my cat loves Valerian. 

1005
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,000
She didn't touch. 
She wouldn't touch catnip. 

1006
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,680
But anytime I've got Valerian, 
she just, you know, the way cats

1007
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,080
go where they, they get all 
psycho on you. 

1008
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,120
She was. 
Yeah, well, I'm the. 

1009
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,800
Worst whichever because I'm 
allergic to cats. 

1010
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,920
So fun fun times. 
Only person in my house. 

1011
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,320
Not allergic to cats, everyone 
else's and they just have to 

1012
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,600
deal with it. 
Can you? 

1013
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,680
Tell us. 
About a local. 

1014
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:51,280
Legend or a witch from your 
community that fascinates you. 

1015
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:54,440
I can. 
It's more a local legend than a 

1016
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,320
witch. 
So we, this is going to connect 

1017
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,040
to you and I and on because of 
the, the Welsh connection here. 

1018
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,960
But in Glasgow, we have a river 
that runs through the middle of 

1019
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,000
our city. 
It splits the city in half. 

1020
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,360
And on the South side of the 
river is where I, I stay. 

1021
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,160
And then on the north side of 
the river, we split it into the,

1022
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,240
the West End and the East End. 
So this city, the, the, the 

1023
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,360
river that runs through it 
starts off in Lanarkshire, which

1024
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,080
is just a town much, much 
further South. 

1025
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:27,360
And it runs all the way from 
there through multiple towns and

1026
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,760
exits over at the Atlantic on 
the way out to Ireland. 

1027
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:41,560
And it's called the Clyde now it
gets its name from Clod or Cloa.

1028
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:50,080
So Clod was a river goddess in 
Wales and we at a certain point 

1029
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,480
in time had a Welsh speaking 
tribe in Scotland called the 

1030
00:52:53,480 --> 00:53:00,000
Damnoni tribe and they and they 
said they settled in Lanarkshire

1031
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:05,240
and where the three points of 
this river, well the where the 

1032
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,320
kind of source of this river 
happens is where 3 Three Rivers 

1033
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,720
meet. 
And it was so noisy. 

1034
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,560
It reminded them of the clod, 
the river from in, in Wales. 

1035
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,360
So they named this river for 
that same goddess because it was

1036
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,840
such a it's a noisy thing. 
It's like she's she, she has the

1037
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,440
ear of the gods. 
She's like so cleansing like the

1038
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,560
the very Welsh then the. 
Volume that comes from. 

1039
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,520
Her is just such a cleansing 
noise. 

1040
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:37,640
So we have this river goddess 
who we know has been venerated 

1041
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:39,760
along the length of the Cric 
Clyde because there's been 

1042
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,800
little objects found over the 
years that suggest that people 

1043
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:49,120
from Hamilton or Wishawdon and 
further up right the way through

1044
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,080
to Glasgow venerated this 
goddess here. 

1045
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,440
So we have the Clyde goddess 
that not many people think of 

1046
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,680
when they think of Glasgow, that
you know, you think about these 

1047
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,360
goddesses from all around the 
world. 

1048
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:07,040
And yet here we have our own 
goddess and this cleansing noisy

1049
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:08,760
goddess who has the eat of the 
gods. 

1050
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,200
So when I drive over her, so 
there's a number of bridges that

1051
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,680
crossover the Clyde Ioffer an 
offering of turning my volume up

1052
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,360
as loud as I can in the car when
we when I go past. 

1053
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,280
So she gets my song all the 
time. 

1054
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:27,040
So I do love the Clyde goddess. 
She's venerated, yet still, 

1055
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,640
after all these thousands and 
thousands of years, I love that.

1056
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,800
And again, it just goes to show.
How connected we were as a 

1057
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,040
Celtic nation that we, you know,
there was Welsh, we have a, you 

1058
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,520
know, if anyone was to say the 
word Clyde, you think of it as 

1059
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,040
being a very Scottish thing, but
actually it came from Welsh 

1060
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,640
speaking tribes that were in 
Scotland at the time. 

1061
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,960
But you know that that migration
through different countries was 

1062
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:51,920
a normal thing and is a normal 
thing. 

1063
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,360
And we've we've reined ourselves
in a bit and butchered ourselves

1064
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,880
off from the rest of the world. 
And we definitely shouldn't 

1065
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,760
because look at the beautiful 
symbology that travelled with 

1066
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:03,200
it. 
So I do, I do actually have 

1067
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,160
another quick thing that when I 
because I always forget to speak

1068
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,680
about these witches that were, 
that were tried under the 

1069
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,560
witchcraft act, but like there's
a kind of weird connection to 

1070
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,680
Salem with it. 
And I'm like, oh, really 

1071
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,520
interests me. 
So when I stay in Glasgow, we 

1072
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,520
have a big park nearby because I
remember where that deer green 

1073
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,280
place in Pollock Park at home to
Pollock House. 

1074
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,080
And we had a family who lived 
there called the Maxwells. 

1075
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,920
And one of the Maxwells, his 
name was George Maxwell. 

1076
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:37,360
He was a witch hunter. 
So he back in the day owned all 

1077
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:41,000
this massive land, he had a big 
estate house and he had a lot, 

1078
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,560
loads of people working for him.
And one day he took unwell and 

1079
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,800
probably what we would know now 
is he was having a stroke or 

1080
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,640
Bell's palsy or something had 
gone wrong. 

1081
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:54,480
But a little mute girl who 
worked within Maxwell, within 

1082
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,160
Pollock House, told the Maxwells
that because she found her voice

1083
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,160
this day because she hadn't 
hadn't spoken before. 

1084
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:05,680
And she said, I'm living with a 
woman, her son and her daughter 

1085
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,360
and the three of them together 
with another three women are 

1086
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,320
practicing witchcraft on you. 
And there's an effigy of you 

1087
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,680
behind the fireplace and hurt 
their house with pins all down 

1088
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,600
this side. 
And they are doing this to you. 

1089
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,200
So they went to the house and 
they found the effigy and they 

1090
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,400
said, you big bunch of witches, 
let's get you to trial. 

1091
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:32,360
And they tried all but the, the,
the, everyone was put to trial 

1092
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:37,560
except the youngest daughter who
was saved but got to see the 

1093
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:42,840
rest of her family hung and 
burned at Gallows Green and 

1094
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,680
Paisley. 
The girl who had grassed them 

1095
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:53,600
all in for doing this left and 
ended up going to be a 

1096
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,960
minister's wife in Edinburgh, 
where when she got to Edinburgh 

1097
00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:59,840
accused a whole bunch of other 
people. 

1098
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,520
Again, I all went to trial and 
went to court, and when the 

1099
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,560
judge heard that she was 
accusing, again, decided that 

1100
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:09,920
these people weren't the 
problem, it was her and she was 

1101
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,480
stirring the pot and she was 
banished to the colonies about 

1102
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:19,560
five years before the witchcraft
trials in Salem started, No. 

1103
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,240
Yeah, so it doesn't tell you. 
Where it just says she was 

1104
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,680
banished to the colonies. 
I have a really sneaky suspicion

1105
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,160
that some little mute girl from 
Glasgow started Salem witch 

1106
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,040
trial. 
Oh wow. 

1107
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,960
So. 
That's my own personal thought 

1108
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,400
process. 
I'm sure there's people out 

1109
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,760
there who who are academics on 
that who are screaming at me 

1110
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,480
right now. 
But when I've read it and looked

1111
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,320
looking at the dates, I think 
bet that was you. 

1112
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,840
Bet that was you, you little. 
Shit stirrer? 

1113
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,000
Absolutely. 
Causing trouble. 

1114
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,320
So now we have our keep or cut 
section where we ask our guests 

1115
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,760
5 things they would keep or cut 
out of their practice. 

1116
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:00,360
So Gio, that Glasgow witch, I'm 
going to give you 5 things and 

1117
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,120
you have to pick one. 
And I know it's going to be 

1118
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:08,440
painful, but would you keep or 
cut tattoos or sigils? 

1119
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,680
Sigils I don't even. 
Know if that's part of your 

1120
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,520
practice, but I suppose some of 
our tattoos are part of our 

1121
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:19,560
practice. 
Fine sigil Sigil magic is 

1122
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,560
amazing. 
Not magic or tea magic. 

1123
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,880
Oh no, hold on, is this keep or 
sorry I keep tattoos you're 

1124
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,200
keeping? 
Tattoos. 

1125
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:31,400
Yeah. 
No sigils. 

1126
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,640
I keep tattoos. 
Oh, you're cutting sigils? 

1127
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,280
And we did this on a an episode 
with Anon and we got to the end 

1128
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:39,720
of it. 
She was like, hang on a minute. 

1129
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,040
I think I answered those wrong. 
She just answered what she would

1130
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,160
keep or cut and we didn't. 
She'll keep tattoos. 

1131
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:46,960
I'm keeping tattoos for. 
Sure. 

1132
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,200
OK, not. 
Magic or T magic, not magic. 

1133
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,280
You're keeping, not. 
Magic. 

1134
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,400
Oh, that surprises me, because 
you've always got a cup of tea 

1135
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:56,840
in your hand. 
Yeah, I've always got notes, but

1136
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:57,560
you don't. 
See them well? 

1137
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,480
I think I know the answer to 
this. 

1138
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,800
Fire or water fire? 
You're keeping fire. 

1139
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,120
Yeah, burn something. 
Every single day of my life. 

1140
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:15,880
Well, there we go. 
Oh, keeping cauldrons or wands 

1141
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,160
Cauldrons. 
And now this one is. 

1142
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:24,520
Contentious you're keeping 
fairies or unicorns unicorns. 

1143
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,720
It wasn't that hard to answer. 
I did I did this to anonymous, 

1144
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:32,200
which she was fuming. 
She's like no, they're going to 

1145
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,360
hear me. 
She she works with fairies as 

1146
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,600
part of her practice and 
unicorns. 

1147
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,560
But yes she's like they're going
to hear me. 

1148
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:41,240
No. 
I'm Unicorn. 

1149
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,680
Well, we work. 
I work with the she, so that's 

1150
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,080
not. 
I think they'd be annoyed if I 

1151
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:50,280
called them fairies, so I'm I'm.
Currently, so my book pile of 

1152
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,080
unread, I'm reading Morgan. 
I can never pronounce her 

1153
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,800
surname. 
Morgan Damer's Fairy Courts, 

1154
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,400
which is all about the Scottish 
fairy courts. 

1155
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,600
It's very interesting. 
Again, it's not part of my 

1156
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,160
practice, although I feel like 
the fairies are hunting me at 

1157
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,040
the moment. 
Or the she. 

1158
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,080
But the she are very, she is 
very specific to Scotland 

1159
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,800
though, right? 
I think so. 

1160
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,080
And I think in Ireland too. 
I think in Ireland too. 

1161
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:20,520
I was just, I just downloaded a 
book as an old book from 1911 

1162
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,440
last week and I was having a 
read through it earlier on. 

1163
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,800
I've I've got this book 
somewhere, but I can't find it. 

1164
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:31,080
And it's the fairy thick faith 
in Celtic Countries by WY Evans 

1165
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,000
Wentz. 
But you can get it online for 

1166
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,000
free just the whole book from 
1911. 

1167
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:41,920
But remember, it's 1911 and it's
a man and Christian OK, it's 

1168
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,600
writing it. 
So you just have to take it with

1169
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:46,680
bit of discernment. 
But excellent book gives you 

1170
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,640
information about fairy faith 
and she culture and all of that 

1171
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,600
across all of the Celtic 
nations. 

1172
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,520
So it's a very good, but I 
literally had it open today 

1173
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,760
because I was looking at it for 
research for something and 

1174
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,400
there's a free. 
PDF that you can. 

1175
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,440
Download 1911 that'll. 
Be an interesting read. 

1176
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,200
Interesting read. 
OK, so what's going on for you 

1177
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,000
next? 
Where can we find you? 

1178
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,680
I mean, you're everywhere at 
this point, but yeah, what is 

1179
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:16,520
going on next for you? 
So. 

1180
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,480
I'm writing a book, which is 
obviously I can't get to say 

1181
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:22,440
that out loud because I'm I'm 
more than I think. 

1182
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,640
I was just a little bit nervous 
about saying that I was writing 

1183
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,040
a book until I'd written most of
it. 

1184
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:32,760
So I have a manuscript deadline 
due in, in June. 

1185
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,520
So once I send that off to them,
then I'll be able to tell you 

1186
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,320
more about what, what I'm 
writing about that. 

1187
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,520
It's not going through an 
editing process or anything yet.

1188
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,000
So I'll let you know a bit more 
about that at the time. 

1189
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:51,480
I'm also working on an app at 
the moment for a, oh, so you 

1190
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,960
know, I have my witch's wheel 
calendar that that I use. 

1191
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,600
So I kind of started that off 
with no understanding of how to 

1192
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,040
be technologically advanced at 
all. 

1193
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:07,000
So I didn't really understand 
how to hold a community space. 

1194
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,280
I've never been on Discord or 
any of those types of things. 

1195
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,360
It was really annoying me that 
it wasn't what I'd set out for 

1196
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,800
it to be. 
So just wait for a few months 

1197
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,920
ago. 
I I'm working with a girl from 

1198
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,560
our community who's a community 
space manager. 

1199
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,480
She's and I met her weirdly when
I was in Denver. 

1200
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:30,360
I walked into, I met a physical 
store and she was there. 

1201
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,080
We hadn't like we hadn't 
decided. 

1202
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:35,920
I hadn't told her I was in 
Denver. 

1203
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,760
I didn't know that she lived 
near that place. 

1204
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,680
And we just so happened to be in
the same store at the same time.

1205
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:46,680
So she's helping me build this 
online community and it's a 

1206
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,080
really cool space. 
I'm so excited. 

1207
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:50,720
I've been like been walking 
through it over the course of 

1208
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:55,840
the last couple of weeks and I'm
really excited to have it out in

1209
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,240
the world. 
So there's going to be lots of 

1210
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,480
free stuff for people to access 
for free. 

1211
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,760
There's going to be a little 
community where it's guarded a 

1212
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:05,240
little bit. 
So that's kind of behind the 

1213
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:10,200
wall of like normal kind of 
social media stuff for people 

1214
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,920
who might want to practice a bit
more openly online, but don't 

1215
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:15,880
want to be public facing about 
it. 

1216
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,760
And then I'm trying to figure 
out how to do some more in depth

1217
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:23,040
teaching on that because again, 
there's lots of nuance and 

1218
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,000
trying to get that all out in 
those little videos is really 

1219
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:30,160
difficult. 
So it's really more, I mean, 

1220
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,880
I've been a solo practitioner 
this whole time and I've never 

1221
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,400
really understood the depth of 
community in a witchcraft 

1222
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:41,320
setting until I've been doing 
this from an online perspective.

1223
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,160
And it's really enriched my, my 
practice. 

1224
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,520
So I'm, I'm really looking 
forward to sharing that with 

1225
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:48,720
people. 
So both of those things 

1226
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:50,800
happening at the same time, 
which is just ridiculous. 

1227
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,960
My brain's about to melt inside 
itself, but I'm writing a book 

1228
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:58,520
and developing an app, so wow. 
So exciting. 

1229
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,400
That is so exciting and that's 
so quite unique as well, that 

1230
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,720
app idea. 
Because then you get. 

1231
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,360
I don't like to use the word 
control, but you are able to 

1232
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:08,560
have more things that we can't 
post about. 

1233
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:14,600
On on social media because or 
places like even that you can't 

1234
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,840
post these things that they'll 
get taken down or reported or 

1235
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,440
something. 
Well, thank you, I. 

1236
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,920
Can't believe how amazing it is 
to have you on the podcast. 

1237
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,560
Yeah, I've, I've tried to keep 
it quiet, but also I haven't 

1238
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,320
been able to with my, like, 
Patreon community. 

1239
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,520
So some people go, oh, have you 
got that Scottish witch coming? 

1240
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,360
I'm like, you're not supposed to
know. 

1241
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:36,040
Also, just before I know we 
might be fetching up soon, but 

1242
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,640
can I just say like a massive 
thank you to you, GAIL, from 

1243
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,200
that first, very first 
interaction that I had the way 

1244
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:48,120
back then because I had like you
and another three women maybe on

1245
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,680
that live that night and some 
weirdo that came in and said 

1246
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,760
some weird things. 
And you guys were all really 

1247
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:02,480
kind and welcoming and made me 
feel like what I was doing was 

1248
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:06,600
worth doing. 
And that was like a a little 

1249
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,520
foundation brick and the whole 
of me continuing to do what it 

1250
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:15,440
is that that I'm doing and just 
thank you because you were you 

1251
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,080
are. 
So welcome that you're 1.3 

1252
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:22,480
million followers is down to me 
basically, I'll take we've got 

1253
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:26,440
it recorded, there's evidence 
and I won't be sharing. 

1254
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,600
This is a social media post. 
I'll get you a copy of my book. 

1255
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:32,200
And I'll say to GAIL, thank you.
I couldn't have done it without 

1256
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:33,280
you. 
Exactly. 

1257
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,600
I can't. 
Wait, I'll be running around the

1258
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,240
Witch and Pagan festival next 
year going. 

1259
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:41,800
Look how famous I am now and. 
I don't mean that in the 

1260
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:42,960
slightest bit. 
Tongue in cheek. 

1261
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,160
There's, you know, there's 
there's little things that 

1262
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,720
happen to you along your journey
and you can either be poked and 

1263
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,280
prodded in the right direction 
or poked and prodded out of it. 

1264
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,800
And you were a poker and prodded
in the right direction. 

1265
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,880
And I'm just really grateful to 
you because there's people 

1266
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:03,280
online who are not kind and I, I
just haven't, I've not 

1267
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,520
experienced that. 
And you were one of the first 

1268
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,200
people that I experienced 
online. 

1269
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:08,800
So I appreciate you. 
Thank you. 

1270
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:09,400
No. 
Problem. 

1271
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,800
Thank you for having me. 
Really lovely. 

1272
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:13,400
To meet you. 
And thank you for listening to 

1273
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,080
between 3:00. 
Witches, Witchcraft in plain 

1274
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:16,960
sight. 
This episode resonated. 

1275
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,440
You're welcome to sit with it, 
share it, or let it unfold in 

1276
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,560
your own time. 
You can find me, Vicki, and Anon

1277
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:24,280
on all the social media 
platforms. 

1278
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,200
And until next time, may your 
practice meet you exactly where 

1279
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:27,560
you are.