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Are they late to Bitcoin? 
Is it too late to buy Bitcoin 

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Fred and and benefit from it? 
I mean, we're super early. 

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We're very, very early. 
I mean, this is this is like 

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we're the beginning of a 
probably a 20 year journey of 

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massively high returns. 
It's, it's going to be, we're 

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going to have massively high 
returns for 20 or maybe even 30 

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years that that's basically, I 
think where we are. 

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So you know, you're, you're 
nowhere. 

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You're at the beginning, like 
you're in the first inning. 

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Hey Fred, how you doing long 
time. 

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No. 
Talk I really enjoyed our 

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conversation last time. 
I remember one of the things 

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that you told me, which is very,
very impactful and I and you 

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said, Nico, your life's going to
change and you know the way that

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you've been kind of approaching 
it because been approaching it, 

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you know, as like for the last 
8-9 years of my life now I've 

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just been, you know, putting 
specifically in the early years,

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like 80 to 90% of my my what I 
was earning into Bitcoin and you

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know been having this like very 
kind of live below your means 

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type of mentality and that's how
I've been approaching it. 

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And one of the things that you 
told me when you came on the 

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show, you know, last time was 
like, Nico, your life's going to

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change in 2025. 
And I've put a lot of thought 

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into that lately and had that 
conversation with my wife as 

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well. 
And she's been thinking about it

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because again, I've been living 
this life, you know, of course, 

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simply Bitcoin has taken off. 
I have my own business, you 

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know, things have changed, 
right? 

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But I still have this like 
Bitcoiner esque mentality of, 

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you know, live below your means,
you know, stay frugal, stay 

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disciplined, stay this. 
But again, I am coming up on 9 

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years of doing this, right? 
So anyone who's been in Bitcoin 

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nine years, you know, it's a 
long time. 

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So can you talk a little bit 
about that? 

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Because I feel like there's a 
lot of people my age that got 

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in, you know, roughly around the
same time I did, which was class

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of 2016. 
Most people got in 2017, but 

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it's essentially the same thing.
What changes, Fred? 

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Like what is this change that 
you were talking about last 

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time? 
Well, I think the big one is 

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real estate, right? 
That's, that's going to be the 

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biggest expense that you're 
going to make in your life is 

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going to be buying a house. 
And that is not a cheap thing to

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do right now. 
You know, I have a friend who 

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was just saying, you know, you 
really can't buy in anything in 

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any major US city right now 
under $1,000,000. 

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You know, you can't buy it in 
Miami, you can't buy it in New 

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York, can't buy it in LA, can't 
buy it in San Francisco. 

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You know, maybe in the middle of
the middle of the country 

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somewhere you can still get 
something for a million. 

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But you know, that's kind of 
your entry point right now. 

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And I think the biggest question
you have to ask yourself is do 

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you want to take the plunge and,
and actually have a mortgage and

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real estate? 
And that's really the question. 

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And, you know, I think in many 
respects, in many cases, the 

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answer is, you know, for 
somebody like you who've been, 

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who's been in Bitcoin for a 
while, I think maybe the answer 

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is yes, you do want to get some 
real estate, you know, but I'd 

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say if you're just starting out 
and I would say the, I would 

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suggest stacking it be better 
idea right now than then jumping

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into, you know, mortgage on, you
know, what, what is kind of an 

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overpriced asset really. 
You know, I think, I think real 

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estate's not going to do very 
well relative to Bitcoin. 

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You know, I really don't think 
it will. 

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And so, you know, I think you 
have, you have to think about 

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yourself as 10 years from now on
Bitcoins at $1,000,000. 

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How smart is that? 
Is that house or that condo 

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going to look? 
And I'd say probably not. 

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Not too smart. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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I mean a. 
Guy, a guy that we both know, 

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you know Terrence Yang. 
Yes. 

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So Terrence Yang, Yeah, OK, so 
Terrence Yang posted something 

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and he said, well, I, I invested
IN250K into this condo, nice 

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looking condo by the way, you 
know, apartment complex 

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somewhere. 
And he's like, but I invested 

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it. 
That would be worth about 

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2,000,000 today, right? 
And I said at Terrence, it could

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be worth 10 million by the end 
of end of 2025. 

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You know, that's, and you know, 
you, you got like a, you got a 

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timeshare and a condo for 
$250,000 or you got a partial 

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ownership in this apartment 
complex or you could have $10 

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million worth of Bitcoin, you 
know, on its way to going to be 

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worth $100 million, right? 
So no, I, I, you know, I, I 

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really think, you know, you 
really got to balance these 

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things out. 
And you know, it's a, it's a 

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tough one because I don't think 
you're going to see another 

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thing like Bitcoin likely in 
your life. 

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You know, you're, you might, you
might see it, but you're not 

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going to get it on the ground 
floor like you did with Bitcoin.

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And you got lucky. 
You know, we all got lucky. 

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We, our, our eyes were opened at
the right time. 

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But, you know, I just, you know,
don't take that for granted. 

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You know, you're not, you're not
going to go through life and 

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you're going to see three of 
these. 

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You know, I don't think so. 
You know, I just, you know, I 

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think if you can rent, you know,
rent if you can, you know, our 

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friend, you know, I don't know 
if you know Thomas Young, but 

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like, Thomas Young was like, 
well, you know, whenever I look 

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at a car right now, it's a, you 
know, an $80,000 car. 

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I look at it as a $250,000 car, 
you know, and I'm like, you 

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should, but you should also not 
think about spending $80,000 on 

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a car. 
You should be thinking about 

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spending, you know, $600 a month
on, on, on a lease. 

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Yeah. 
You got to resist the idea of 

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actually buying stuff. 
Yeah. 

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And and, you know, lease as much
as lease as much as you want. 

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You know, I, I definitely think 
that's kind of the, from a 

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personal planning perspective, I
think, you know, especially if 

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you're young, it makes sense to,
you know, it, it makes sense to 

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potentially not buy right now, 
not buy now. 

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You know, you do get the 
leverage on, on real estate. 

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You know, you, you get, you're 
putting 20% down, but I got to 

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tell you, it's like you want 
leverage. 

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You can get leverage on Bitcoin 
too. 

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You know what I mean? 
You can get, you can buy 2X the 

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amount of Bitcoin that you have.
You know you, I wouldn't, I, I 

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just think real estate's the 
loser here. 

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And so I think you, you have to 
figure out how can you increase 

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your lifestyle without 
increasing the amount of dollars

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you're forking out for cars and,
and boats, if you're so 

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inclined. 
And yeah, the boats are the 

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worst, right? 
They're, they're by that by far 

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the worst, right? 
Like the There's no worse 

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investment than a boat. 
It's setting money on fire, 

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straight up. 
It's pretty much setting money 

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up. 
I mean, I think arguably jet 

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planes are worse than boats, you
know? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
But those things just go to the.

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It's just like literally setting
your money on fire but. 

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Yeah. 
But I think, I think with jets 

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it saves you time, right. 
So like you can make that 

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argument with a boat, like it's 
straight up leisure and it's and

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you know you're not going to if 
and if you travel a lot, the jet

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kind of justifies going through 
the pain of going commercial and

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all that. 
Stuff, you know, I used to have 

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a jet 20 years ago. 
I was on, I mean, not my own, 

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but I had net jets, right? 
And I flew around for for four 

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years. 
I had net jets and you know, 

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I'll tell you it's it's good, 
but it's not as great as you 

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would think. 
And I'll tell you why, because 

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unless you got like the Super 
duper big net jets, you're not 

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going to Europe on with 
one-on-one hall. 

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You from Miami. 
You could, right, But like LA to

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LA to New York, LA to Paris. 
No, you don't. 

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You're not doing that in one. 
So you have to stop and refuel, 

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and that's marginally not even 
as good as flying first class. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
You know, so you know, and then 

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you, you know, unless, unless 
you're Michael Saylor and you 

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own your plane and you know, 
you, you tell the guy just keep,

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keep the, keep it running. 
You know, I'm, I'm going to be, 

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I'm going to be two hours late. 
You do have to kind of make 

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those appointments. 
You know those, you have those 

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slots and you know, you get 
charged an arm and a leg if you 

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miss them. 
So I don't know. 

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I don't regret, I don't regret 
necessarily my private jet days.

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But but yeah, all these things 
are not are not really what they

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cracked they're cracked up to 
be. 

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So one of the things that the, 
one of the things that really 

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stuck out to me, Fred, in this 
early part that you were, that 

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we were, that we've been 
speaking is in Lugano in 

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Switzerland. 
I went to the Plan B forum and I

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I introduced this guy by the 
name of Marthi Malami. 

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Right. 
Oh yeah, of course, yeah. 

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And you know, this is someone 
who, you know, a Bitcoin OG, he 

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was one of the first people to 
talk to Satoshi. 

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And I didn't know who I was 
presenting. 

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I didn't know who was 
introducing because I was I'm 

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seeing one of the stages and I 
introduced him like this is 

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whatever and and his name of his
talk was this is my Bitcoin 

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pizza story and Long story 
short, he said something along 

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the lines of I bought a flat. 
I bought my first flat, a one 

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bedroom apartment in Finland for
10,000 Bitcoin or something like

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that. 
It was like a ridiculous amount.

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And he was basically, he just 
kept talking about paying for 

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trips and paying for things. 
And he's like, if I have just 

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kept all that Bitcoin, I'd be 
the third richest man in Finland

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right now. 
And it just kind of reminds me 

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with what you're saying, but it 
also puts you in a predicament, 

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right? 
So if it was up to me, I would 

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kind of keep living this, you 
know, this, this live below your

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means lifestyle. 
But I am married. 

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I have a wife and I just had my 
first kid and and she's like 

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almost one year old and that 
changes the conversation, right.

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So, you know, the, so we're 
thinking about probably leaving 

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Miami because it is, you know, 
and we we're for a multitude of 

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reasons, not only because real 
estate is so expensive, but I 

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was, I grew up on South Beach. 
I don't want to raise my 

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daughter here for the obvious 
reasons. 

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So we're probably going to, you 
know, go to a place a little bit

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more quiet and obviously a lot 
more affordable. 

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00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:32,960
But you know what, like what? 
At what point, you know this 

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push come to shove because Fred,
like at at the end of the day, 

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you need a place to live. 
Like you need a, you need a roof

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00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,680
over your head. 
You need, you need to play. 

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00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,360
Like what's the point of working
and huddling for so long if 

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you're not going to enjoy it at 
one point? 

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00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,120
We only have one life at the end
of the day, right? 

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00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,240
So what would your advice on 
that be? 

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00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,520
Again, my advice would be step 
up your lifestyle. 

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Rent something crazily good, 
rent something great and just 

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don't buy it. 
You know what I mean? 

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00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,240
Like just think about the rent. 
Like let's just say I don't know

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what you're you're planning, 
would planning on spending for 

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00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,120
place, but let's just take 
$1,000,000 as a number. 

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00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,920
OK, Well, let's like take 
$2,000,000, OK, but I'll I'll 

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take kind of Lai think LA and 
Miami are probably pretty 

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similar. 
I'm not 100% sure, but like in 

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LA, if you want to kind of get 
a, a basic kind of house, it's 

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about $3,000,000. 
I'm not, we're not talking like 

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amazing great, you know, but 
this is like a basic stand alone

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house in a kind of nice area is 
$3,000,000. 

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00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,920
OK, so let's take that as our 
basis, right? 

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00:12:51,640 --> 00:13:00,000
But let's say also you want to 
rent whatever you want in LA, 

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00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,680
that same house or something, 
maybe it'll cost you 20 grand a 

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00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:09,440
month. 
OK, Well, I would say the 

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00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:14,520
difference between spending the 
$600,000 upfront in the in the, 

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00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:19,760
in the cost to buy that, that 
20% down and get all the 

218
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,480
mortgage payments and everything
else, I would say you're 

219
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,320
probably better off spending 20 
grand a month on on renting. 

220
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:30,200
You'd have to do your own 
calculation, but do that for 

221
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,960
just two years and then and then
buy, you know what I mean? 

222
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,200
Because those next two years, 
like I mean, you just do the 

223
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,600
math on your Bitcoin. 
You know, if if Bitcoin goes to 

224
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,640
500, let's just take 500,000, 
you're 5X from where you are 

225
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:51,920
now, you know, that house 
becomes very, very expensive 

226
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,960
looked on at, you know, and and 
sort of 2028 bitcoins. 

227
00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:01,200
So I would say resist the 
temptation rent, that's fine. 

228
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,520
Burn some cash, live a little 
bit, live live it up on the 

229
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:11,000
rental. 
And now the question is, are 

230
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,600
you, you know, is your, the 
landlords and so on, are they 

231
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,920
going to be OK with it? 
Well, you show them your hard 

232
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:23,560
hardware wallet, you know, and 
you know, or maybe move it to 

233
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,640
some place where you can, you 
can, you know, it's, it's 

234
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,120
custody, like I don't know, 
river or somebody like that, 

235
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,440
right? 
You know, part of it, you know, 

236
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,920
or Fidelity digital assets or 
something, right, so that you're

237
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,680
not just saying, hey, this is my
Ledger guy, you know, like this 

238
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,600
is fine, you know, get an 
account with your name on it. 

239
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,960
You know what I mean? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

240
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:50,080
You know, but and then and then 
I think, I think I think we're 

241
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,400
getting to the point where 
you're going to be able to live 

242
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,800
on that. 
You know, I think you're going 

243
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,440
to be people will treat you like
a first class human being. 

244
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,280
If you've got, you know, if you 
got a bunch of Bitcoin. 

245
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,560
I I really think we're getting 
to that point. 

246
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,040
I just feel like the smart move 
is to rent a little bit longer. 

247
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,520
Just resist the temptation. 
Maybe it's only two year a year,

248
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,480
maybe it's literally might be at
12 months, right? 

249
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,400
Yeah, it might be 12 months. 
You know, so it's just like 

250
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,800
these could be, this could be 
the worst timing of your life. 

251
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,800
If you buy that, if you buy, if 
you buy that house like you know

252
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,360
in February, that could be the 
that you could, that could be 

253
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:34,920
your Marty Balmy moment. 
Yeah, yeah, I, I'm, I'm going to

254
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,000
take that advice to heart now. 
I think you've been but. 

255
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,600
I am, but I am saying you 
should, you should treat 

256
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,640
yourself like, you know, look, 
you're not in grad school. 

257
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,200
You, you huddled, you did well, 
great, you know, treat yourself 

258
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,240
a little bit, you know? 
Yeah, but I, I example, I just 

259
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:59,800
bought a 9/11 convertible, you 
know, top of the line, whatever,

260
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,240
you know, but I didn't, I didn't
pay cash for it. 

261
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,000
I just leased it, right. 
Doesn't matter. 

262
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,400
Like, I don't care. 
Yeah, it doesn't matter. 

263
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,200
I mean, obviously I could pay 
cash for it, but I, I'm very, 

264
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,520
very cognizant now of I I don't 
want my cash. 

265
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,160
I don't want to spend cash on 
like a big apartment. 

266
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,840
Like I have a similar type of 
thing just for fun. 

267
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,600
I'd like to buy an apartment in 
Paris. 

268
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:31,400
But, you know, that would be 
5,000,000 bucks. 

269
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,240
Yep. 
And, you know, I'm just sort of 

270
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,040
like, oh, do I really want to 
spend $20 million in apartment 

271
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,960
in Paris? 
I'm thinking Bitcoin Wolf 4X, 

272
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:46,160
you know, yeah, You know, so 
like, I'm pretty happy just 

273
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,520
waiting and buying it for 
$1,000,000, you know what I 

274
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,960
mean? 
Effectively. 

275
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,080
Yep, exactly. 
It's just, that's the only thing

276
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,760
is it costs you time. 
Now, one of the one of the 

277
00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,400
threads that really stuck out to
me, by the way, for anyone who 

278
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,680
doesn't follow Fred, Fred's X 
account, it's fabulous and it's 

279
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,480
one of the fastest growing in 
the industry. 

280
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,400
He's really, really good at it 
and I'm a big fan of his YouTube

281
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,440
content as well. 
And one of the latest ones that 

282
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,000
I really enjoyed. 
We're actually probably going to

283
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,880
cover it on the show 'cause it 
was really great, which is you 

284
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,240
kind of broke down like how much
Bitcoin you need to retire. 

285
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,480
And that's a very popular 
subject on YouTube. 

286
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,680
And a lot of people are thinking
about this, you know, hauling it

287
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,000
easy, especially if you do it 
for long periods of times, is my

288
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,240
third cycle. 
You know, like it takes really 

289
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,160
the life out of you. 
Like straight up, I don't know 

290
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:45,200
how else to say it, but you know
what, what is the answer to that

291
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,920
question? 
Like how much Bitcoin you need 

292
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,040
to retire? 
And I'm assuming it's different 

293
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,800
based on the age groups and the 
generations, right? 

294
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,000
So the floor is yours, Fred. 
Yeah, so I would say look, if 

295
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,280
you're very young, like if 
you're very young, I'd say I 

296
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,440
consider under 30 very young, 
right. 

297
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:08,040
I would say one Bitcoin, you 
know, if if you can get to 1 

298
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,560
Bitcoin, that's great. 
You know, now that's easier said

299
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:12,960
than done. 
I mean, like I used to be a 

300
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,680
starving Stanford grad student, 
you know, eating top ramen and 

301
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:23,400
drinking wine from bottles with 
with screw tops, you know, and 

302
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,320
and so, you know, 100 grand 
sounds sounds like a lot of 

303
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,440
money when you're, you know, 
when you're poor. 

304
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,480
But I would say one Bitcoin, if 
you're looking, if you're in 

305
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,080
your under 30, you got 30 years 
to retire. 

306
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:45,000
What one Bitcoin in 30 years 
will be enough for you to 

307
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,120
retire? 
I think so I think just one, one

308
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,360
Bitcoin is the answer. 
And you know, by definition, 

309
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:57,200
only 21 million people in this 
entire planet will ever get to 1

310
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,280
Bitcoin and probably a lot less 
than that, right? 

311
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:06,280
So you know it, it may be as 
little as as 5 million people 

312
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,560
will ever get to 1 Bitcoin. 
Right now you have about a 

313
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,800
million people who have or at 
one Bitcoin. 

314
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,720
But I think, I think the number 
the, the sort of the Max I would

315
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,760
say is five. 
There's I would say, yeah. 

316
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,880
So I think if you're, if you're,
you know, in your 40s or 

317
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,680
something, you know, you don't 
have that kind of time frame. 

318
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,800
So I think the number there is 
more like 10 Bitcoin. 

319
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,600
You know, again, you still need 
to you still need to kind of 

320
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,840
hold on to it for a while. 
And, and, and you know, if 

321
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:46,400
you're in your 50s or 60s, I 
mean somewhere around 30-40 

322
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,280
Bitcoin I think is kind of what 
you, you really need, you know 

323
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,160
what I mean? 
It's not ten anymore, right? 

324
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,040
10's, 10's a little, 10's a 
little cutting it, cutting a 

325
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,080
little close, you know, if 
you're, if you're 50 or 60, I 

326
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,040
think. 
And so even if you're talking 

327
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,200
about borrowing against 
whatever, you know, I think, I 

328
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,000
think those are sort of the, 
those are the ranges I would 

329
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,840
say. 
Yeah, and. 

330
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,120
Do you agree with that, Nico, or
what? 

331
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:21,040
Do you I, I 100% agree because 
you know with 30 years, let's 

332
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,680
say Michael Saylor's base case, 
not even his bull case, right, 

333
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,880
His 21 year prediction, well now
20 year prediction is $13 

334
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:34,120
million per coin by the year 
2045, you know and. 

335
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:37,080
I mean, I just, I just like to 
think of it in, in, in broad 

336
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,720
amounts. 
Bitcoin 1,000,000, Bitcoin 10 

337
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,600
million, right? 
All right. 

338
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,760
When are we going to get to 
Bitcoin 1,000,000? 

339
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,480
I would say probably 10 years 
from now, somewhere between five

340
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,560
years from now. 
I mean, there's some people 

341
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,880
saying this year, right, if 
possible, right, But somewhere I

342
00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,800
would say, you know, somewhere 
in the five to 10 range, right? 

343
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,560
I think that's kind of the 
likelihood for a million. 

344
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,880
Where are we going to get to 10 
million probably around 20 years

345
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,400
from now? 
You're going to get to 10 

346
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,200
million, you know, maybe 30 
years from now, right? 

347
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,720
So that that kind of time range.
And that's kind of what the 

348
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,840
power law tells you, right? 
So the power law quantifies this

349
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,280
stuff very well for you. 
Absolutely, Yeah. 

350
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,920
No, I I agree with that 
assessment 100%. 

351
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,440
And so, but if you're, if 
you're, if you're under 30, you 

352
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,640
got 30 years. 
So you know, you know, you 

353
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,320
really need to think of it. 
The one thing you don't want to 

354
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,840
do is sell is is touch that 
Bitcoin like you really you 

355
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,920
really want to put that thing in
a vault and have a time lock for

356
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,480
30 years almost. 
You know that that would almost 

357
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,680
be the best scenario for you. 
Yeah. 

358
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,560
And let me ask you something 
else, Fred, how much Bitcoin, 

359
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:59,840
regardless of age today, if you 
wanted to retire and live a 

360
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,120
upper class lifestyle and one of
the, you know, global world 

361
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:07,960
cities, how much Bitcoin do you 
think you would need to retire 

362
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,960
today essentially to live that 
lifestyle 'cause you and I both 

363
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:18,560
know, you know, the cost of 
living in LA, Miami is like, you

364
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,920
know, you go to a bar, it's $40 
a drink, right? 

365
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,840
That's the norm. 
I know it's very. 

366
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,920
That's very. 
Going up and going up. 

367
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,440
It's not, it's not going down. 
Yeah, that's the norm. 

368
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,880
I've all I grew up with that 
when I was, you know, in my, 

369
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,280
when I was growing out, when I 
was going out and you know, the 

370
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,480
my early 20s, late teens, it was
$25 per drink. 

371
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,360
So nothing's really changed. 
It's just this, it's South 

372
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,200
Beach, right? 
LA, I'm sure it's very something

373
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,200
very similar. 
I would say New York is similar 

374
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,520
as well. 
I love New York City, favorite, 

375
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:52,000
my favorite city in the world. 
And like my original question, 

376
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,360
how much Bitcoin would you need 
to retire to live, in your 

377
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:58,760
opinion, to live in one of those
big cities? 

378
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,400
And this isn't just the United 
States, like let's say, Europe, 

379
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:02,760
you know, the great cities in 
Europe. 

380
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,920
I love Madrid. 
No, I posted something on the 

381
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:09,040
I'm trying to figure out because
I, I sort of said, what if I 

382
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,280
just decided to live in the 
absolute top of the line 

383
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,360
lifestyle? 
OK, OK, what would that involve?

384
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,520
OK, I would say I sort of asked 
Chat GPTI said help me out here,

385
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,800
you know, and I said and I said 
great, OK, well that lifestyle 

386
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,840
would involve staying at 5 star 
hotels like Four Seasons 

387
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:34,680
equivalent 100 nights a year. 
Yeah, OK, 100 nights a year. 

388
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:43,160
And then first class travel to, 
you know, to trips all over the 

389
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,840
place 100, you know, equivalent 
of 1/3 of the time you so you're

390
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:52,880
flying to Paris, to Tokyo, 
you're staying in, you're 

391
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,840
staying in the best hotels ever,
right? 

392
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,400
You've got like, you know, 
personal assistant, you got 

393
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,120
somebody picking you up at the 
airport. 

394
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,840
Everything right? 
That's the peak peak, peak 

395
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,720
lifestyle, right? 
And ChatGPT came back and said, 

396
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,560
you know, what was the number I 
should get the post, But it was 

397
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:19,040
sort of like, you know, about a 
million a year, you know, bulb 

398
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,680
or half a million, half a 
million to a million a year or a

399
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,000
million a year, right? 
Whatever, Let's just say 

400
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,280
1,000,000 a year, right? 
So my point is, if you just 

401
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,320
backtrack that, OK, well, you 
got, you got to spend a million 

402
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,560
a year. 
Well, OK, it's actually next 

403
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,440
year, which is the biggest 
problem to your thing, right? 

404
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,640
Because if, if, if you say right
now, let's say you start with 

405
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,040
100 Bitcoin, right? 
Well, 100 Bitcoin is 10 million 

406
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,840
bucks, right? 
OK. 

407
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,280
And OK, well, you're going to 
peel off a 10th of it in year 1,

408
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:54,880
but how much are you going to 
peel off in year 2? 

409
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,440
Well, potentially you're only 
going to peel off, you know, a 

410
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,400
20 or 30th of it in year 2, 
right? 

411
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,840
And you can borrow against it. 
So I mean, 100 bitcoins should 

412
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,960
be more than it's sufficient for
you to live pretty much at the 

413
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,080
peak. 
You know, this is like within a 

414
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,000
couple, right, and including 
like, you know, education for 

415
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,960
your kids, private nanny, 
whatever you want right now. 

416
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,760
You're not going to have 
sailor's yacht. 

417
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,720
You're not you're not going to 
get the sailor house right. 

418
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:36,160
You're not going to get the Palm
Beach or the the Aspen, you 

419
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,760
know, mountain chalet on top of 
it. 

420
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,440
So you're not getting those 
things, but just from a pure 

421
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,120
lifestyle, 100 Bitcoin, pretty 
much over 100 Bitcoin. 

422
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,240
There is no hotel chain that 
that's going to give you a 

423
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,840
better experience. 
The Four Seasons is it, you 

424
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,560
know, that's it that that's the 
peak. 

425
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,000
You know, I'm I say that The 
Four Seasons of Miami, beautiful

426
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,360
place. 
You know, I love and you know, I

427
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:05,200
stay there just just now. 
Great doesn't get any better 

428
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,640
than that, you know, so I would 
say look, you know, if 100 

429
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,120
Bitcoin gives you the absolute 
peak lifestyle forever starting 

430
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:19,160
now, well, maybe you scale it 
down from there to like 30 

431
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,680
Bitcoin or 25 Bitcoin, you 
should be able to live off that 

432
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:28,080
today, right? 
And, and so, you know, now of 

433
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,280
course, all this stuff is easier
said than done because you have 

434
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:38,120
to have this crazy belief in 
Bitcoin and not panic sell it at

435
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:44,120
the absolute worst point, which,
you know, I think that's kind of

436
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,240
why we do these podcasts, I 
think is basically to persuade 

437
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:52,280
ourselves, you know, that this 
kind of worldview that we have 

438
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,600
is not complete insanity. 
I. 

439
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,760
Mean. 
When I was talking to my 

440
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,520
accountant, she's like, what? 
Fred, you are completely insane.

441
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,320
Why? 
It's like I get a heart 

442
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,200
palpitations whenever I look at 
your portfolio and I'm like, 

443
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,520
yeah, don't worry about it. 
Like. 

444
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,640
We are we listen to Bitcoin 
content in order to reinforce 

445
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,840
our beliefs and entertain along 
the way. 

446
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,800
I wouldn't. 
That's a very good assessment. 

447
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,000
I completely agree with that. 
Yo, I want to tell you about the

448
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,960
best place to build your 
automatic self custody Bitcoin 

449
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,360
stack. 
I'm talking about 

450
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:30,440
bitcoinwell.com. 
What makes bitcoinwell.com 

451
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,560
different is that it's a 
completely non custodial 

452
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,920
platform, meaning as soon as you
buy Bitcoin and the funds clear,

453
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:41,320
it goes straight to yourself. 
Custody Bitcoin wallet address 

454
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,240
and that perfectly aligns with 
simply Bitcoin ethos of the 

455
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,080
separation of money and state 
support Bitcoin on ramps that 

456
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,400
are self custody by default. 
To get started, go to 

457
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,480
bitcoinwell.com today. 
Takes 2 to 5 minutes to sign up 

458
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,640
and bada Bing bada boom you're 
ready to buy Bitcoin now Fred 

459
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,040
you know we're all expecting 
2025 to be an amazing year and 

460
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,240
I'll set the context a little 
bit right Biden administration 

461
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,440
lost catastrophically. 
The Republicans have a trifecta 

462
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,480
in government and they hold the 
house they hold the Senate. 

463
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,240
They won the presidency. 
This is the first pro Bitcoin 

464
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,760
president going into office and 
of course the talk of a 

465
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,280
strategic Bitcoin reserve, which
if that gets passed, I think the

466
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,320
Poly market odds give it like a 
40%. 

467
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,840
But if that somehow gets passed,
we're going to 500 K guaranteed 

468
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,000
next year. 
That's the way I'm looking at 

469
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,760
it. 
And of course, you know the 

470
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,920
nation state adoption with 
Naimbu Calais and then of course

471
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,520
Michael Saylor's amazing success
with micro strategy on the kind 

472
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,400
of Wall Street institutional 
level. 

473
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,640
So just kind of aligning and 
given context. 

474
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,800
So because we are going to go 
into kind of speculation type of

475
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,960
talk, sure, what are you 
expecting for 2025 And if you 

476
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640
want I can give my own kind of 
theories first. 

477
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,200
Yeah, go ahead. 
Why don't you start? 

478
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:04,480
Yeah. 
OK. 

479
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:10,040
So I think 2021 was artificially
cut short because of the China 

480
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,000
mining ban. 
You see, there is a direct 

481
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,800
correlation between the hash 
rate pump plummeting 50% and the

482
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,680
price going along with it. 
Why? 

483
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,040
Because all those miners needed 
to sell Bitcoin to relocate to 

484
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,680
more favorable jurisdictions. 
So I think 2021 we were actually

485
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,440
destined to hit 100K. 
Now what this caused was now 

486
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,280
most of the Bitcoin community 
has this form of PTSD. 

487
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,080
We have not experienced a blow 
off top in Bitcoin since 2017. 

488
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,520
It's been a long time, right? 
So I think the general consensus

489
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,240
and the reason I'm bringing this
up is Bitcoin tends to do the 

490
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,720
exact opposite of what everybody
thinks, right? 

491
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,120
And it's just markets in 
general. 

492
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,680
So the general consensus IS150K 
Bitcoin, 180 K Bitcoin. 

493
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,400
I think we're going either much 
lower than that or much higher 

494
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,320
than that because I see most 
people throwing this number in 

495
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,840
that general vicinity. 
And then I think people are 

496
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,880
underestimating how bullish it 
is for Bitcoin for Trump to have

497
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,480
won this election like it was a 
big deal, like people 

498
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,400
underestimate this. 
And even if he doesn't pass 

499
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,800
legislation through, the things 
that he can do via executive 

500
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,120
order is a lot, right? 
So that's my general theory. 

501
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,040
I think it's going to blow. 
I think it's on the upside, I 

502
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,800
think it's going to blow past 
200 K minimum. 

503
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,240
That's my theory. 
I would love to hear yours. 

504
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,080
OK. 
So my theory is less on the 

505
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,920
number that we're going to hit 
this year that I'm that I think 

506
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:52,760
we have a longer runway. 
So I, I don't know how much 

507
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,800
we're going to go up this year. 
I think it could be 200,000 that

508
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,880
that might be it, right? 
I might be 500,000. 

509
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,560
Like if it, if it was 200,000, 
I'd be very happy. 

510
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,160
If it's 500,000, I'd be very 
happy. 

511
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,120
Yeah, it doesn't matter to me, 
right? 

512
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,760
I definitely don't think right 
now that 2026 will be a down 

513
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,160
year. 
So I, I don't think that the, 

514
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,440
the mining cycle or anything has
anything to do with anything at 

515
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,480
this point. 
You know, we, we are at the tail

516
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,040
end of that mining argument. 
You know, where or what the, 

517
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,000
what the miners did mattered. 
I don't think it matters 

518
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,560
anymore. 
So I think, I think we just have

519
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,400
to get rid of the cycles idea 
like that. 

520
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,200
And I, I understand we've had 
it, we've had, we've had it for 

521
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,160
the first 3 cycles, you know, 
really bad, you know that there,

522
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,880
there was, you know, this was, 
but I don't think it matters 

523
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,800
right now. 
I just don't think it matters. 

524
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,920
I, I really don't. 
So, you know, I don't think, I 

525
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,160
think the real question is not 
how do we, how much do we get 

526
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,720
next year? 
I think the real question is, 

527
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,400
you know, how long does it take 
us to get to 500,000 or a 

528
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,520
million? 
You know, and it may take us a 

529
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,000
couple years and that's fine. 
It's, you know, it's perfect. 

530
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:14,200
So my view is, I also kind of 
view that the Bitcoin strategic 

531
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,520
reserve, like it may happen and 
there may be this, but look, 

532
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,720
America has America's kind of 
broke right now. 

533
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,400
So I don't see them, you know, 
kind of spent. 

534
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,640
And we've got to refinance $7 
trillion in Treasury bonds this 

535
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,200
year. 
So I don't see us really 

536
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,520
contributing a lot of money to 
this strategic Bitcoin reserve. 

537
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:43,360
I you know, I Trump's got his, 
his, his, his, his. 

538
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,680
He has work cut out for him on 
many, many different fronts, 

539
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,760
right, to kind of curb 
immigration. 

540
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,800
He's got to he's got to clean up
some this excess government 

541
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,040
waste. 
You know, he's got to do a lot 

542
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,120
of stuff. 
And I don't think Bitcoin does 

543
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,320
not need the bitcoins strategic 
reserve. 

544
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,160
You know, we will do fine 
without it. 

545
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,800
It's fine. 
Doesn't matter like all he the 

546
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:15,680
only thing I really want or 
expect him to do is to label the

547
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,880
existing Bitcoin that he has as 
a Bitcoin strategic reserve and 

548
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:19,960
stock. 
That's it. 

549
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,960
You know, like I think fixing 
the United States is more 

550
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,400
important than buying a lot of 
Bitcoin right now. 

551
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,240
That that's my view. 
Like I feel like there's enough 

552
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,840
problems with the United States.
We got into enough problems with

553
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,280
the Biden administration and and
even before, right, we've got, 

554
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,640
we got, we got a broken house, a
broken car. 

555
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:47,360
Let's fix the car, you know, and
let's give Bitcoin a room to run

556
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,880
because it's going to run all by
itself. 

557
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,960
Does not need training wheels at
this point. 

558
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,600
You know, and you know, I, I 
just feel like there's so much 

559
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,760
money that wants to get into 
that. 

560
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,240
We'll want to get into Bitcoin 
that we don't need to come up 

561
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:08,280
with like, you know, Middle 
Eastern buyers or strategic 

562
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,920
reserve or anything else. 
I think it's just naturally 

563
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,600
we're going to have this mass of
money want to find itself there,

564
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,560
and so I and it will in 
particular if America is Bitcoin

565
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,360
friendly and all it just needs 
to do is well, the most 

566
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,320
important thing, I think is to 
solve this operation choke .2 

567
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:35,120
point O, you know, like we need.
We need to make banks be able to

568
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,159
hold Bitcoin. 
We need to stop cronalizing 

569
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:42,080
people like you or me who bought
Bitcoin a little earlier, you 

570
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:47,880
know, than than the average dog.
And you know, we and we should 

571
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,320
be part of the financial system.
That's it, you know, and so, you

572
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,920
know, and, and, and we should 
make it legitimate for 

573
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,560
businesses to own Bitcoin. 
We shouldn't penalize them. 

574
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:05,040
So we got to end this kind of 
crusading by the FDIC and 

575
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,360
Elizabeth Warren and everybody 
else on Bitcoin, right? 

576
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,280
That that's the most important 
thing. 

577
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,160
Like let's end the crusade on 
against Bitcoin and Bitcoiners, 

578
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,160
right? 
Let's stop that. 

579
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,000
And yeah, if you want to, if we 
can buy some more Bitcoin, 

580
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,560
great. 
We don't need to do it right 

581
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,800
now. 
I it's not, I don't think that's

582
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,080
that's needed. 
There's so much money out there 

583
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,560
that it will just naturally come
into it. 

584
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:38,720
It'll raise the price naturally.
And so and I also, I also in a 

585
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,920
way, I don't want to blow off 
top either, you know, I actually

586
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:47,640
don't want 1, you know, because 
blow off tops usually follow are

587
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,880
followed by nuclear winters. 
You know. 

588
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:57,240
And I don't know, like I don't 
want another 2022 or 2018, you 

589
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:01,240
know, I'd rather have just a 
mild, you know, correction like 

590
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:03,640
we had when the Germans sold 
their Bitcoin. 

591
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,720
Yeah. 
You know, down 30% whatever. 

592
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:11,760
OK, like, you know, we don't 
need, we don't need, we just 

593
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:17,040
don't need massive people going 
completely berserk on 100X 

594
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,360
options and everything else. 
We don't need that. 

595
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,440
That's not that's not good, 
right Yeah, and companies going 

596
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,120
bankrupt and Sam bank run freeze
and all the rest. 

597
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,520
We we really don't need that. 
Like the best case forward be 

598
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,640
you know, if we doubled this 
next year, we doubled again in 

599
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,000
2026, like how great would that 
be? 

600
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,920
You know that would. 
Be phenomenal. 

601
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,600
Yeah, right. 
And everybody be a little bit 

602
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,600
upset like, oh, we only, we only
went up to 200 K. 

603
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,640
We did a Bitcoin reserve, but we
didn't put much on that. 

604
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,760
And fine, I like absolutely 
fine. 

605
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,480
I'm the happiest guy in the you 
know, so I just, you know, I, 

606
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,400
you know, I'm just not, I just, 
I feel like we need to kind of 

607
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,320
stop the like the hype of like 
the Dennis Porter kind of stuff,

608
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,000
you know, like Philadelphia, PA 
signing this and then, you know,

609
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,160
Ohio's going to do this. 
Like guys like it doesn't 

610
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,680
matter. 
Like we're we're not, we're not 

611
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,800
in this race. 
The hype to blow off this like 

612
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:23,880
we're good. 
We already won. 

613
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,480
Now with Trump in we have won. 
So we have won like we're going 

614
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,680
to win, you know? 
So, you know, I think it's kind 

615
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:39,600
of like, you know, smell the 
roses, enjoy life, and let's not

616
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,440
get bent out of shape because we
don't do a 10X if we do. 

617
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,880
And I'm with you, Nico. 
Look, human, human greed is such

618
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,760
that it's very possible that we 
get some completely insane blow 

619
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,720
off top. 
It is possible, right? 

620
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,760
Why? 
Because you know, it's not going

621
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,680
to be, but it won't be the same 
kind of people. 

622
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,240
It won't be. 
It won't be the kind of the D 

623
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:12,840
Gen. retail from, you know, 
2020-2021, right or 2017. 

624
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,840
It won't be. 
It won't be the same guys who 

625
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,400
bought Tron and you know, and 
FTX and you know, Solana and 

626
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,680
stuff in 2020. 
What I think it's going to be is

627
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,040
a bunch of extremely wealthy 
rich people who all of a sudden 

628
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:34,360
sit there and go, wait a second.
I, I only own 0.01% of my net 

629
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:41,040
worth in I bit maybe I increase 
that to 2% and that if we get 

630
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,880
that shifting, you know that 
that's that that'll just 

631
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,760
completely, you know that that's
what could do it, right? 

632
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,280
Because there's so much to this 
money that's in real estate, 

633
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,280
that's in bonds, that's in, in, 
in overpriced stocks. 

634
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,720
And they just, they don't have 
enough allocation. 

635
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:04,760
They, they have no allocation to
Bitcoin. 

636
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:10,200
So I'm to me, it's like complete
and utter inevitability that 

637
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,440
that happens. 
But you know, these people are 

638
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:19,320
very, as you know, they're very,
very that we're still at the 

639
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,640
point where they're, they're bad
mouthing Bitcoin. 

640
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:25,960
They're like, yeah, then maybe 
not really an asset. 

641
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,000
There's no value, no intrinsic 
value. 

642
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,200
So it may take, it may take a 
little longer than one year for 

643
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,640
them to completely come to, but 
I don't think it's going to take

644
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:45,320
longer than five years. 
I think, you know, to me, this 

645
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,000
the horse race started a year 
ago with the ETF. 

646
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,520
Yes, because before the ETF like
you're some wealthy guy in 

647
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,640
Miami, right? 
You're, I mean, are you going to

648
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:04,160
really, you're going to go buy a
cold card or learn to use that 

649
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,680
thing and then and then move 
some money, buy, buy Bitcoin and

650
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,800
Coinbase and then move it. 
You're not going to do that, 

651
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,480
right? 
I mean, the amount of the amount

652
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,080
of wealthy people who do, who do
that, it's like it's very small,

653
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,280
right? 
And you know, they're not going 

654
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,960
to leave, they may have a 
Coinbase account or something, 

655
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,720
but they're not going to leave 
$5,000,000 on Coinbase, 10 

656
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:30,600
million, you know what I mean? 
Like you don't, that's not what 

657
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,840
wealthy people do. 
You know, they have wealth 

658
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:39,280
managers, they're conservative. 
They have places, brokers 

659
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:45,400
accounts that they had money in 
for 3050 years, you know, and I 

660
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,200
mean, I've had a I've had my 
Goldman Sachs account since 

661
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,680
1998, you know what I mean? 
Or 95, you know. 

662
00:40:52,680 --> 00:41:02,480
So, you know, we're not people, 
you know, people are cautious 

663
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,880
with their money. 
They're not, they're not like, 

664
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,280
oh, new paradigm, I'm going to 
put all my money in Coinbase. 

665
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,320
No, they're not going to do it. 
So I think it's going to change.

666
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,920
But all they need to do is just 
allocate now a very small amount

667
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:24,720
into I bet or FBTC and those 
guys are going to clean up. 

668
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,920
They're just going to clean up. 
Yeah, all the ETFs. 

669
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,720
But I mean, I think those two in
particular are just going to be,

670
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,760
they're going, I bet is going to
become bigger than the S&P SPY. 

671
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,880
It's a. 
Very strong statement, Fred, but

672
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,760
I completely agree with you. 
I mean, it's become the number 

673
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,480
one ETF of all ETFs, right? 
That's what the, it's just going

674
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:53,720
to become the I There's a 
reason, there's a reason Larry 

675
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:58,360
Fink is now so bullish on this 
stuff, is he he probably has the

676
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,440
best view of where money is 
going of any person in this 

677
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:05,840
planet, OK, including Michael 
Zaylor. 

678
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,240
You know, I'm just saying like, 
he really he, he is at, he's 

679
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:13,760
right on the catbird seat. 
You know, you can see everything

680
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,240
and he sees like, wait a second,
there's all this money that 

681
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:23,680
could go into ETFs. 
I want to go into my ETF, right?

682
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,760
And you know, he's making 20 
basis points on, you know, on, 

683
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:38,080
on $10 trillion. 
You know, that's $200 billion a 

684
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,840
year. 
I mean like, you know, the he, 

685
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,360
he's, he's this is, this is 
going to be. 

686
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,360
And I think where we're headed 
is that I bet becomes kind of 

687
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,560
like the IT, it is in 
everybody's growth portfolio. 

688
00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:01,440
Like every single everybody owns
some S&P whether it's I bet or I

689
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:07,280
bet SPY or the the Vanguard 1, 
you know, everybody has. 

690
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,880
You don't find an investor who 
doesn't, who has, does not have 

691
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,920
some allocation to the standard 
and poor's that's it. 

692
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,120
Everybody does, right. 
And I think 10 years from now, 

693
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:25,840
every single investor will have 
some, I bet everybody, every 

694
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,960
single one will have you know, 
and it's not going to be 0.1%, 

695
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,240
it's going to be 5%. 
You know that'll be the norm, 

696
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,400
so. 
Fred, let me ask you something 

697
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,440
and I, by the way, I completely 
agree with you. 

698
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,680
I and the reason I agree with 
you is because the Bitcoin is 

699
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:53,200
going to outperform the SNP. 
So it's inevitable that people, 

700
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,200
you know, if you're an investor,
you want exposure to that. 

701
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,080
Now, my, my question to you, 
Fred, is do you agree with 

702
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,320
Sailor's stance that we're going
to see a in the, in the early 

703
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:10,720
days, he believes a 40% compound
growth in Bitcoin at least for 

704
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:14,400
the next 10 years and then it'll
start to tail down to like 20%. 

705
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,240
And I mean thing about compound 
interest, and if anyone is not 

706
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,200
familiar with it, there's so 
many calculators online like 

707
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,240
it's a reason that Warren 
Buffett is as wealthy as he is, 

708
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,000
right? 
And especially like, you know, 

709
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:32,080
if you do something for 1020 
years, 30 years and you have a 

710
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:38,280
compound interest of 20 percent,
30%, you can grow a great deal 

711
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,040
of wealth, especially the well 
I'll. 

712
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,520
Give you an example of that 
because I've been doing a lot of

713
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:48,160
kind of digging around in 
economic history and that, you 

714
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:54,080
know, if you look back at the 
Medici's in, you know, in 

715
00:44:54,080 --> 00:45:00,080
Florence in the 13th century, 
you know, the highest interest 

716
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:06,640
rate that they ever got was 20%.
That's the look, I mean, if 

717
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,440
you're getting double digit 
interest rates, those things 

718
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,480
compound to massive amounts of 
money. 

719
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,960
So 40%. 
I mean, this isn't insane, 

720
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,000
right? 
It's you know, and obviously 

721
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,840
last year we had 100 hundred and
20%. 

722
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,600
Well, I can't even know 150% 
right, basically right. 

723
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,760
So, you know, we, we've 
outperformed it, but all you 

724
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,560
don't need to, you don't, all 
you need to know is anything 

725
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,400
above 20%. 
It's amazing, right? 

726
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,760
This is unbelievable. 
This is like these are wealth 

727
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:46,760
makers. 
So I think that you're right. 

728
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,000
The, the, it is the miracle. 
The, you know, they said it's 

729
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,760
the seventh wonder of the world 
or the 8th wonder of the world 

730
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,280
is compound interest. 
And it really is true. 

731
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,880
If, if you can hold on to 20 
something that's growing at 20 

732
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:05,160
thirty 40% for 10 years, you're,
you're, you're, you become 

733
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,040
extremely wealthy in, in inside 
of a decade. 

734
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:15,880
So I and I think investors are 
not stupid. 

735
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,000
They're going to look at, I bet 
they're going to look at what it

736
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,640
did last year. 
If it does another good year, 

737
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:22,720
they're going to just keep on 
going. 

738
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:25,760
They're going to be like, OK, I,
I like what I'm doing here. 

739
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:31,000
I'm just keep keep more of this.
So you know, I just to me, the 

740
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:37,000
history of Bitcoin as an 
institutional investor product 

741
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,560
started last year. 
So that's it. 

742
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,440
That's when we we're one year 
in. 

743
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,640
We had a great first year. 
We had a great first year. 

744
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,080
Now we're going to have our 
second year. 

745
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,720
If our second year is great, Oh 
man, that money is just going to

746
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:55,280
come in like, you know, it's 
still it's still like, well, we 

747
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,560
got to still test. 
It's only a year old, but that, 

748
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,120
you know, typically on Wall 
Street, if you're, let's say you

749
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:08,160
start a new fund or this is a 
good kind of good example. 

750
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:13,040
If you start a fund and or 
you're a trader and somebody 

751
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,960
gives you money, right, Your 
first year, you have a blowout 

752
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,760
year, you'd do 100% OK, 
something like that. 

753
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,600
You're going to get a lot more 
money the second year. 

754
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,480
But if you do it for two years 
in a row that then people just 

755
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,160
can be like, OK, give this guy 
all our money. 

756
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,120
That's that's the human 
psychology, right? 

757
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,680
Like, of course, that's the way 
things work. 

758
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,920
And so I think, you know, you 
know, people are going to look 

759
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:47,440
at the audited results of I bit 
they're not going to look at 

760
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,440
what Bitcoin did before I bit, 
you know, they're going to look 

761
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,720
at what happened after the ETF 
came out, after they could 

762
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:58,720
finally buy, they could first 
buy it and that's it. 

763
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:03,200
So I think we're in for for a 
very long ride, a really long 

764
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,640
ride. 
And that's the the main thing I 

765
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,360
want to say is like, you know, 
you've been in Bitcoin a long 

766
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,240
time, but you know, you've only 
been in institutional Bitcoin 

767
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:17,600
the same, same long time as 
anybody else one year because 

768
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,680
everything you did before that, 
sort of like it's like AVC when 

769
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,840
they invest in a company, they 
view that they the time starts 

770
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,600
when they invest. 
Like whatever happened before 

771
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,120
that, whatever the guys, the 
founders did before, it doesn't 

772
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,480
matter. 
Clock starts when the 

773
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,720
institutional money comes in. 
And I feel like that's where we 

774
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:41,360
are with Bitcoin D The clock has
started on this new thing. 

775
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:46,960
And the last thing you want to 
do is use your models from the 

776
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,680
previous era to kind of project 
the next era. 

777
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,400
But those models are not going 
to work anymore. 

778
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,000
Like you may think, Oh, well, 
it's going to do this. 

779
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,200
The mining is the cycles. 
Oh great, you sold, you sold in 

780
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:03,200
and you want to you want to kind
of time it so better than 

781
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,040
anybody else you're going to 
sell in August of this year 

782
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,960
great, you're going to sell in 
August you're going to be up 60 

783
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,480
percent, 70% and you're going to
you're going to think you're 

784
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,840
going to miss the crash of 2026,
except there won't be a crash of

785
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:21,880
2026 and there won't be a crash 
of 2027 and you know it, it'll 

786
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,760
just keep on going up. 
So, you know, I all I know is 

787
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,640
I'm not smart enough to say that
I think 2026 is going to be a 

788
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,800
down year. 
So I'm definitely huddling 

789
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,680
through from here on out. 
You know, now that's. 

790
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,720
A good point. 
That's what I'm doing now on on 

791
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:47,880
the other hand, will I sell a 
little bit just to spend it? 

792
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:55,560
Not, not not for, you know, not 
for portfolio reason, but just 

793
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,800
buy something, you know, maybe, 
yeah, probably, you know, you 

794
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,480
know, I'll just I might peel off
some money, do something. 

795
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:10,120
I don't know, I don't know what,
but you know, like you, but I 

796
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,000
think I think money's meant to 
be spent. 

797
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:16,360
But I think that I do think that
we're in, we're in kind of now 

798
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:21,200
for a long, a long, very 
positive route, similar to 

799
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,280
buying Apple stock, you know, in
2010 or something, or Amazon 

800
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:31,280
2010, you know, and you know 
those, I can tell you, look, I 

801
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:39,120
owned Apple in 2008 and I bought
it when they first came out with

802
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,520
the iPhone. 
I was like, oh man, this thing's

803
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,800
going to be great. 
The stock doubled. 

804
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,440
It did bad and then it doubled 
and recouped after 2010. 

805
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,960
I said I'm done. 
I've great trade, fantastic 

806
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,520
stock went up 50 times after 
that 50 times. 

807
00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:00,560
OK, Apple has gone up 50 times 
from 2010 till now. 

808
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,480
That's crazy. 
And, you know, do they have a 

809
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:04,720
new product? 
Not really. 

810
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:08,040
They have the watch. 
You know, they have the watch. 

811
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,400
You know what I mean? 
The iPhone came out while I 

812
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,920
still had Apple shares. 
I bought in a little bit along 

813
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,360
the way, but I had a pretty big 
position in Apple. 

814
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:24,960
And you know, Amazon, you know, 
you could, you know, you could 

815
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:34,000
have avoided the crash of of 
2000, but then afterwards, it's 

816
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,800
afterwards that even in the last
decade, Amazon just did 

817
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,920
phenomenal, right? 
So it was a very mature company.

818
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:46,160
Nothing fantastically new or 
there was no, there was no 

819
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,240
strategic reserve that moved 
Amazon up, right? 

820
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,960
Just went up, just kept on going
up, right. 

821
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,080
So I think Bitcoin's going to be
like that. 

822
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,280
It's going to be, it's not going
to be like we need this 

823
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,840
strategic reserve. 
We need this Saudi Sheikh to buy

824
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,880
it. 
This thing's just going to work.

825
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,320
This thing will just work and it
will work. 

826
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,680
And really you got to, you got 
to just extend your time frame 

827
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,880
to about a decade. 
And I think you got to figure 

828
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:17,000
out, OK, how do I make sure that
I have Bitcoin, my core position

829
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,640
throughout this decade? 
So whatever your plan is, you 

830
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,800
got to make sure that you don't,
do not sell more than 20% of 

831
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,800
your Bitcoin for, for the next 
10 years. 

832
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,360
So you got, you got that 20%. 
You can play around with, you 

833
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,720
can do, you know, do whatever 
you want, but keep 80. 

834
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:38,720
As long as you keep 70 or 80%, 
the numbers are going to just 

835
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,280
they're going to be amazing for 
you. 

836
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:46,000
Yeah, all of us old timers are 
going to be really, I think are 

837
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,840
going to really, really benefit 
from just the the pure growth 

838
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,080
factor and that. 
And I think that the key is just

839
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:57,760
to kind of keep a level head and
stay calm and understand there 

840
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,280
will be volatility and fine, you
know, we're OK with it. 

841
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,160
And it's honestly it's 
volatility. 

842
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:08,080
When you bought your you, you 
came in 2016, right? 

843
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,640
So, but like $500 Bitcoin, 
right? 

844
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,440
Yep, right. 
So first. 1st, 1st, 1st Bitcoin 

845
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,400
was $670. 
OK, 670. 

846
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,720
Yeah, I remember when it crossed
1000, man, that was that was a 

847
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:23,400
crazy time. 
Yeah. 

848
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,520
And that was like, again, right.
Because, you know, of course it 

849
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:33,000
was there in 2013. 
But you know, you know, but 

850
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:38,240
yeah, the, but you know, if you 
bought Bitcoin at 500 and it 

851
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:45,760
goes from 100,000 to 50,000, it 
hurts a little bit, but it's not

852
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:51,080
a panic attack, right? 
On the other hand, if you went 

853
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,560
huge all in right now at 100,000
it goes and it sort of ticks 

854
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,800
down to 50,000. 
That's kind of that, that's 

855
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,240
where the you, you, you do have 
panic attacks at that point. 

856
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,080
So I think it gets, it gets 
easier as you're older, as you, 

857
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:11,320
you're further into this, right?
It definitely gets easier. 

858
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:17,440
Well, it's because like, you 
know, like I, you know, I've had

859
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,720
this conversation with with my 
wife's parents, you know, tried 

860
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:23,520
to orange build them for a very 
long time and eventually they 

861
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,480
listened to me. 
But you know, eventually, like 

862
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,680
one of the questions that I get 
from my father-in-law, which is 

863
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:34,400
like, are you going to sell? 
And, and I'm like, look like 

864
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:42,200
unless Bitcoin is going to the 
below 10K region, like I'm OK, 

865
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,600
I'm fine. 
You know, I'm, I'm going to be 

866
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,800
up, right? 
So like, that's kind of like the

867
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,280
way I look at it. 
But again, you have to pay your 

868
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,280
dues. 
You have to put in the, you have

869
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,640
to put in the work and go 
through the cycles. 

870
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:57,320
Now you. 
Got to get, I think the main 

871
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,520
thing. 
Look, Michael Saylor came in a 

872
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,240
lot later than most of us did. 
I mean, yeah, he had a lot. 

873
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:06,920
More capital, though. 
Yeah, yeah, but what I'm saying 

874
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,240
is you and I were we predated 
Michael Saylor, right? 

875
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,680
OK. 
And for me, it was 2019 when I 

876
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,640
really saw the light, right. 
But and he was 2016, right? 

877
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:27,400
So Sailor was 2020, you know, so
I think the, the thing about 

878
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,480
Saylor is though, he, it wasn't 
only the capital, it's just he 

879
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:37,480
developed really strong 
conviction in a very, very early

880
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,080
and I think that's the 
difference, right? 

881
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,280
The difference is what's your 
level of conviction? 

882
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:50,360
How convinced are you that this 
thing called Bitcoin is actually

883
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,280
going to be probably the 
foundation of the, the world 

884
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,880
financial economy 20 years from 
now? 

885
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:03,760
You know, and I, I can, I 
basically talk to some 

886
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,520
Bitcoiners and stuff and that's 
sort of the first thing I 

887
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,680
internally try to figure out is,
are they really as convinced as 

888
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:18,120
me that we are talking about 
something that will, will 100% 

889
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:23,200
be uniform, it'll have 100% 
penetration down the road? 

890
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,240
Like, because I think a lot of 
people still don't, even if 

891
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:29,920
they've made money, even if they
were early, even if they got 

892
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:35,280
another cycle, they still don't 
really think that they really 

893
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,360
don't think people are going to 
be using Bitcoin and they don't,

894
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,480
they don't see the, you know, 
the end game of hyper 

895
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,920
bitcoinization. 
But I think, I think a lot, you 

896
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:50,280
know, there are a bunch of us 
who do, right, a bunch of us who

897
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:54,400
really can see this thing. 
And we, we were like, this is 

898
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:55,600
going to, this is going to 
happen. 

899
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:00,400
You know, I, I can't tell you 
exactly how it's going to happen

900
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,680
with what strategic reserve or 
this or that or I don't know, 

901
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:08,160
like, you know, but I can just 
tell you that I think sailor's 

902
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:12,360
geniuses that he realized, OK, 
this is definitely going to 

903
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:16,120
happen. 
I, I'm 100% convinced this is 

904
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,640
going to happen. 
You know, given that he has that

905
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:25,000
conviction, you know, how, how 
do you Orient your portfolio 

906
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:30,200
given that conviction? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

907
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,120
And I think he's done an amazing
job at that, you know? 

908
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,240
100% I mean, he just double s 
down. 

909
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,280
He, he, he really believes and, 
and, and I think you, you hit 

910
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,600
the nail on the, on the, you hit
the, the nail on the head there,

911
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:48,160
Fred, where you pointed out his 
ability to learn Bitcoin in such

912
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:53,000
a short period of time. 
You know what, usually it takes 

913
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,160
at least one or two years 
minimum. 

914
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:58,400
Most people takes a little bit 
longer than that. 

915
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,520
But his ability to grasp it from
such a in such a short period of

916
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,760
time and then just double down 
and, you know, leverage his 

917
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,240
company, borrow money, buy 
Bitcoin, rinse and repeat, is 

918
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,400
definitely, you know, and This 
is why his stock outperformed 

919
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,480
basically every company, 
including NVIDIA, which is 

920
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,560
absolutely insane, right? 
But I have a question for you, 

921
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,520
Fred, which is, and we are 
getting to the top of the hour, 

922
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,120
and I do want to be respectful 
of your time. 

923
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:26,560
Yeah. 
No. 

924
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:31,880
Problem are we if people are 
listening to this now and 

925
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,240
they're running into this 
podcast and they're they see you

926
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:39,080
on Twitter, they see you talking
and they see simply talking and 

927
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,920
they're like what is this 
Bitcoin thing Are they late to 

928
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,040
Bitcoin? 
Is it too late to buy Bitcoin 

929
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:45,520
Fred and and benefit from it 
well? 

930
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:50,240
I mean, we're super early. 
We're very, very early. 

931
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:55,920
I mean, this is, this is like 
we're the beginning of a 

932
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:02,560
probably a 20 year journey of 
massively high returns. 

933
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,400
It's it's going to be, we're 
going to have massively high 

934
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,760
returns for 20 or maybe even 30 
years. 

935
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:10,520
That that's basically, I think 
where we are. 

936
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:14,920
So you know, it, it's we're 
you're, you're nowhere. 

937
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,480
You're at the beginning like 
you're in the first inning. 

938
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:20,720
So I think you're not at all 
late. 

939
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,520
And you know, there's something,
there's something very fractally

940
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:31,240
about Bitcoin that it kind of 
like, you know, in a way 2024 is

941
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:35,080
Bitcoin was never cheap. 
Remember when you bought your 

942
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:36,880
first Bitcoin, Nico? 
It was expensive. 

943
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:41,880
I, I, I thought I lost the train
and look I did. 

944
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,600
I was very young at the time. 
I was very kind of desperate 

945
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,840
point in my life. 
So I I for you. 

946
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:52,600
Know what the same feeling you 
have about Oh my God is the am I

947
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:58,640
late it's 2016 this thing is 
this thing was discovered OK you

948
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:04,880
know seven years ago the the. 
Point I was trying to make, 

949
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,080
Fred, is that like, so when I 
got in, it was again, it was 

950
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:13,320
under 1000 bucks. 
And for the the first cycle, so 

951
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:18,400
the first four years I did 
whatever humanly possible to put

952
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,680
as much as my income into 
Bitcoin and I was very desperate

953
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,680
and I wanted to get out of the 
situation that I was in. 

954
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:29,040
However, I thought I was late 
because I met people that bought

955
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,080
Bitcoin under $100. 
I bought, I I met people that 

956
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:36,960
bought Bitcoin at $100 or $200. 
If I knew where Bitcoin would be

957
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,600
today, instead of putting 80% of
what I had, I think I would have

958
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,200
put 95 to 100. 
I think I would have. 

959
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,080
Borrowed 9. 
Dixon bought Bitcoin at $0.10. 

960
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,040
I would have borrowed. 
Wayne, Wayne bought, Wayne 

961
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,080
bought. 
You know who I do the podcast 

962
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,040
with? 
He bought Bitcoin at, you know, 

963
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:55,520
a dollar, you know what I mean? 
Like. 

964
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,160
So crazy. 
You know it. 

965
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,360
But. 
Yeah, you just have to get it. 

966
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,000
You have to get it doesn't 
matter like, but I'm what I'm 

967
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,120
trying to say is that those 
feelings are all the feeling 

968
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,480
that you had in 2016 is the same
feeling that some new guy is 

969
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:17,320
going to have in 202425 Excuse 
me now looking at $100,000 

970
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,600
Bitcoin. 
You know it, it doesn't it 

971
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,240
doesn't matter you're you're not
you're you're you're very, very 

972
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:29,400
early. 
This is less, less than 1% of 

973
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,840
rich people even have any 
Bitcoin. 

974
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,080
So it we're, we're, we're 
tremendously early. 

975
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,280
There's going to be a lot of 
great gains. 

976
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:48,600
But it it's going to be, you 
know, Bitcoin only just and, 

977
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,280
and, and don't try to time it. 
I mean, that's, that's the main 

978
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,360
thing. 
Everybody who's trying to time 

979
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,160
it is going to screw up, in my 
opinion. 

980
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,320
I don't know. 
Yeah. 

981
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,760
My my, my gut feels they're 
going to screw up. 100% I, I, I 

982
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,800
have met more, I've met so many 
people in this industry for so 

983
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,320
long. 
And the general idea that I get 

984
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,400
the general thing, and I 
completely agree with this is 

985
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,320
don't trade and stay away from, 
from all coins. 

986
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,640
And if I followed those two 
pieces of advice, I would 

987
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:25,000
probably have more Bitcoin today
than I did if I didn't do any of

988
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,160
those things, if I just stuck to
DCA ING and staying humble 

989
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,960
stacking SAT staying salt. 
So. 

990
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,760
But anyways, we are getting to 
the top of the hour, Fred and I 

991
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,520
do want to be respectful of your
time, no? 

992
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,680
Problem. 
Thank you so much for joining me

993
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:40,160
today. 
I think this is the second 

994
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,760
one-on-one conversation that 
I've had with you. 

995
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:49,520
Absolutely pleasure and huge fan
of of the big Bitcoin book. 

996
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:54,240
I totally bought myself a copy 
and big fan. 

997
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,120
We had a lot of fun writing it. 
It was, it's, it's super, super 

998
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,200
awesome. 
I'm really glad to see that it 

999
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,800
succeeded. 
Can you tell everybody where to 

1000
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,120
follow you, what you're working 
on? 

1001
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,520
If they just want to stay on top
of what Fred Krueger is doing, 

1002
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:14,000
where can they find you? 
Just go to my Twitter dot 

1003
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:18,840
Krueger and I have a link also 
to a website likefredkrueger.org

1004
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:22,120
I think is this and I just have 
other links there. 

1005
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:29,840
I have links of everything from 
books I'm reading to articles, 

1006
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,240
videos about Bitcoin that I 
think are cool. 

1007
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:37,680
And what am I working on now? 
I'll tell you that we're we're 

1008
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:43,320
talking now about a potentially 
a an art project, an art book on

1009
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,120
Bitcoin. 
We're we're thinking about it 

1010
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,160
where so that's that's something
that's going to be pretty 

1011
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:51,520
interesting. 
Sort of we'll see if that how, 

1012
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:54,160
how that thing evolves. 
But I'm very, very exciting at 

1013
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,520
that. 
And yeah, and you know, I'm 

1014
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,760
primarily just a Bitcoin error, 
but I'm, I'm also looking at 

1015
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,240
investing in potentially some 
Bitcoin related things, you 

1016
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,440
know, not as a fund or anything,
just just myself. 

1017
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:12,720
Fred Krueger. 
So yeah, I mean, I'm ultimately 

1018
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,280
just go to Doc Krueger. 
There's a link to my YouTube 

1019
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,440
there. 
You can see I put some videos up

1020
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,200
on YouTube for you can see that 
you can go back and look at some

1021
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:23,520
of them. 
And yeah, the other thing I was 

1022
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,360
going to say what I'm very, very
kind of long term, you know, my 

1023
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,920
intellectual hobbies right now 
I'm really trying to research 

1024
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:36,400
the history of money and, you 
know, and figure out kind of 

1025
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:41,080
what, where, where, where, what 
does it look like when we're 

1026
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:44,080
hyper Bitcoin is what does 
lending look like in a world 

1027
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:47,280
where we're completely on a 
Bitcoin standard? 

1028
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,160
What do banks look like? 
You know, how what does the 

1029
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,320
world look like on a Bitcoin 
standard? 

1030
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,240
So these are sort of general 
questions I'm very interested 

1031
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,920
in. 
I've been doing a ton of reading

1032
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:05,040
of, you know, very everything 
from the 19th century America 

1033
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,800
to, to, you know, medieval 
Italy. 

1034
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,640
So yeah. 
Yeah, and you can even make an 

1035
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,680
argument that, you know, a big 
reason as to why the Roman 

1036
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,120
Empire fell was because of 
inflation. 

1037
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:22,800
And that's just such a crazy 
rabbit hole, the history. 

1038
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:24,600
Of Roman was fascinating. 
That's true. 

1039
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:28,640
So yeah, I mean, look, I think 
it's as Bitcoiners, one of the 

1040
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,160
things we are, we're developed. 
We we have this. 

1041
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:36,240
We're not I would say macro 
guys, but we, we kind of go, OK,

1042
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:39,040
well, there's this new there's 
new money that we're we're all 

1043
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:40,800
committed to. 
And then we're like, how do we 

1044
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:44,680
get into this mess? 
You know what, how did we evolve

1045
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:46,800
here? 
You know, and I'm not trying to 

1046
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:50,720
say it's a conspiracy theory. 
I think it's more of a it's sort

1047
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,600
of trial and error, right? 
We, we tried with gold. 

1048
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,760
Well, that's not not portable 
enough. 

1049
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:00,160
So we need notes and OK, then we
need to put our gold in some 

1050
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,960
bank And but the bank needs a 
business model. 

1051
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:04,480
They're going to lend it out. 
Oh, they're going to go 

1052
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:08,280
bankrupt, you know that. 
So there's, you know, I think 

1053
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,760
we're sort of iterating on 
humans have been iterating on 

1054
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:14,960
kind of the use of money over 
the last couple 100 years in 

1055
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,880
particular. 
And I think Bitcoin is kind of 

1056
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,960
the ultimate net result of that,
right. 

1057
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,680
I think, you know, we, we 
finally cracked the puzzle. 

1058
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,440
And I think Bitcoin's I I think 
Bitcoin's going to be the money 

1059
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:32,680
for the next 1000 years or 100 
years or something, you know, I 

1060
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,880
think it will become the world. 
Money and I, I, I think it's 

1061
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:40,840
really interesting to see to 
think how do we get from there 

1062
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,600
to here and what does it look 
like 20 years from now? 

1063
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,480
Do we even have banks anymore? 
I mean, what do we do, you know,

1064
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,160
how, how, how do, how do 
businesses get funding? 

1065
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:52,800
You know, how to, how does that 
work? 

1066
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,120
Like so there's all these 
really, you know, what does an 

1067
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,040
interest rate look like in a 
hyper bitcoinized world, right? 

1068
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,240
I, I love asking those kind of 
questions and a lot of people 

1069
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,160
don't know the answer to it. 
Like, you know, I've asked this 

1070
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:08,920
question on Twitter and people 
are like, it'll be negative or 

1071
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:12,440
it'll be positive, like it'll, 
it'll be really high. 

1072
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,520
It'll be not so high. 
So we're clearly there's no 

1073
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,520
consensus at all as to what, 
what, what that world looks 

1074
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,480
like, right? 
Because we've been in this Fiat 

1075
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:26,280
world for so long. 
What does the world after Fiat 

1076
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,960
look like? 
I find it fascinating. 

1077
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,400
Yeah, 100%. 
And it's going to completely 

1078
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,200
dramatically change the world. 
And I think it's going to make 

1079
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:38,480
the world's for like it's going 
to make the world a much better 

1080
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,760
place. 
I truly, truly believe that in 

1081
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,280
my heart. 
Anyways, Fred, thank you so much

1082
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,720
for for joining us today. 
Appreciate it.