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Yo welcome to another episode of
Simply Bitcoin IRL. 

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Today, we have a very special 
guest which who have known for 

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quite a bit and man has he has 
he reached some height. 

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So very happy to have Dylan 
Leclair on the show before I 

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want to bring up before I bring 
them up, I want to give a quick 

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Anyways, I want to bring Dylan 
on stage Dylan. 

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Very happy to have you on today.
How you doing, bro? 

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Think I'm doing great man. 
Excited to catch up. 

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We did meet a what was it? 
August 20 2010 at bit block, 

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boom. 
So it's been a wild ride since 

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and happy to get you up. 
Yeah man. 

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That's definitely. 
Definitely been a a Ride to say 

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the least. 
I'm gonna rip the Band-Aid right

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from the beginning. 
And this is a question that, you

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know, I was very lucky to have 
Lynn Jeff Booth, dr. 

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Jeff, Ross on the show, the last
couple of months and, you know, 

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we all kind of go down this like
Bitcoin Rabbit, Hole Journey, 

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Dylan and you there's there's 
there's no end to this rabbit 

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hole and you just come to these 
realizations every so often 

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you're like holy crap like this 
is crazy and where I'm at in 

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this current rabbit whole 
experience is this I'm of 

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inflation. 
The idea that governments have 

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somehow convinced the population
that money has to steal from you

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in order to work. 
So, the question that I have for

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you Dylan Leclair is is 
inflation necessary for an 

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economy to work. 
No, I don't think so. 

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It's just that, you know, we've 
witnessed the the greatest 

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technological boom and in human 
existence and human history 

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during a mostly Keynesian 
economic Paradigm because of 

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Banker interest, because if 
human incentives, because of the

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limitations of gold to scale as 
a medium of exchange, but in, 

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in, in theory, and I believe at,
you know, in practice at an 

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individual level and eventually,
you know, somewhat of an 

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aggregate level and a Gail. 
We're going to see that the 

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reality where if you are 
willingly or voluntarily 

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operating on a separate system, 
you can you can you know, opt 

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out of the kind of political 
pillaging that that the monetary

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system kind of forces upon you. 
So they're still, I mean, we're,

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you know, 50 years into this 
period where the government 

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said. 
All right, we're not even going 

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to pretend that we care about 
this gold Peg or tether. 

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Anymore. 
And we're just going to be paper

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currencies, and we're about a 
few years. 

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I think about three years into 
the period, where the inflation 

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is unchecked or not unchecked. 
But it was, it was checked down.

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I was held down and, you know, 
that was propped up by the 

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industrialization of the world 
and globalization. 

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And now we've kind of reached 
for growth limits. 

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Not, I mean, not to sound like 
what is it malthusian? 

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But we're at a point now where 
the debt and the 

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financialization probably 
reached a peak in purchasing 

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power terms and 2021 and you 
know, their war and a bunch of 

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these other things, kind of 
sparked, a somewhat of a 

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deflation into those things of 
that paper wealth, and into the 

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Commodities and hard money 
sector. 

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But I think the story of the 
next decade, the story of our 

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lifetimes is going to be the 
Perpetual debasement of your 

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purchasing power. 
In any currency terms with a 

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dollar probably being the best 
until potentially trust is lost 

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in the dollar, so a long answer 
there, but I don't think it's 

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ultimately necessary. 
It's just that most everybody in

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the planet hasn't like ever 
operated under a framework word.

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It wasn't you know the Baseline.
Yeah. 

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So you said something really 
interesting there and I want to 

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focus on because usually I'll 
put it this way Dylan. 

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We're definitely in the somewhat
younger generation of big 

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Corners, right? 
You you're a bit younger than me

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and I'm pretty young in the 
grand scheme of things as well. 

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And the reason I'm bringing that
up is because the what the 

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statement that you just made 
holds a lot more weight for us 

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because we don't have an 
alternative like we like Bitcoin

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for us is the way out if you're 
a little bit older. 

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Derp. 
I don't want to say, it doesn't 

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matter but, you know. 
I guess you could make the 

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argument. 
It doesn't affect you as much. 

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So, I guess my question to you 
Dylan is where does Bitcoin 

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play? 
Like what's Bitcoins role for 

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Our Generation? 
I'm specifically, I'm on the 

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younger side of the millennial. 
Generation your Jen's e. 

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So where does Bitcoin play into 
this? 

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Yeah. 
I mean it plays a big role and I

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think you know in terms of 
wealth right? 

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Like gen Z is irrelevant 
Millennials are you know as as 

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irrelevant as any generation in 
history in terms of like wealth,

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purchasing power. 
Now that transfer is happening, 

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you know, mostly through 
inheritance from Boomers or 

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going to be from Boomers to 
millennial generation and some 

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to Gen X as well. 
But, you know, I think it's, 

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it's more of an ability to not 
be stuck in the old world. 

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World. 
Right. 

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Like I approach Bitcoin at the 
same time as I'm approaching 

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Keynesian economic theory and 
like it was just obvious from 

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the fundamental level like what 
was not more fair or Equitable 

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but what I would prefer, right? 
Like what I wanted to do with my

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personal power, that was very 
obvious choice, over the long 

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term. 
But if you've been grounded in 

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some framework or line of 
thinking, whether it's at a you 

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know, a business level or social
level or even a political level 

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right like there it's just 
ingrained into people's heads 

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and And anything that operates 
outside of that box, doesn't 

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make sense is a logical is a 
scam as a fraud, whatever the 

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things they say about Bitcoin. 
But here it is, it's, you know, 

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so I wasn't, I'd blocks are 
coming in patch rates, at 

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all-time highs, right? 
Like the market saying 

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something, Absolutely. 
Do you do you worry a bit? 

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Do you worry about? 
And the reason I'm saying this 

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is what I've tended. 
What I've tended to notice the 

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pattern that have tended to 
notice and I kind of want to 

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loop back into this concept of 
of Our Generations, and the 

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reason I'm bringing it up is you
know, you mentioned it earlier. 

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Dylan, the few under the age of 
35, you don't own anything so 

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does it. 
Worry you a bit that Would have 

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tended to notice, is that 
specifically the younger? 

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You are the complete lack of 
interest in something like 

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Bitcoin. 
People, people seem to seek to 

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continue to seek political 
Solutions. 

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And what I've also tended to 
notice also is that they blame 

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capitalism for a lot of the woes
of central planning, really a 

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Fiat money. 
So what are your thoughts on 

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that? 
I think that's that's that at 

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that's dead on set. 
That accurate there is a certain

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political nihilism to my 
generation. 

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I've seen it with yours as well,
you know, kind of a 

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left-leaning, or at the very 
least a polarization. 

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But at the, you know, at my age 
gen Z like there is a very much,

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you know, ideological Cult of 
social pressure to like conform 

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to this certain, you know, 
fundamental reality. 

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That just somehow came out of 
nowhere right? 

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Which is, you know, two plus two
equals equals 5 and then and you

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know we can blame all these 
things on capitalism capitalism 

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is is the greatest wealth and 
wealth producer. 

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But not wealth producer like or 
wealth creation, but standard of

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living increase, like because of
the capitalist Innovations and 

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Ingenuity. 
So, you know, that's it's 

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illogical, right? 
But I think ultimately, you 

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know, economic reality and 
Darwin is ISM, as harsh as that 

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sounds, is always going to 
impose itself. 

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And, you know, things like these
political ideas, work in theory 

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and not in practice, right? 
America is open Capital markets 

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where the global Reserve 
currency and when would that 

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reality without being able to 
close your capital account, like

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China would money is going to 
flow to where its treated best. 

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So any of these mmt Fantasyland 
things CBO budget just came out 

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today. 
Said, you know, 2032 comes in To

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gdps, right? 
Where it's at right? 

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You know, we're just we're just 
going to sew to fund all this 

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entitlements to fund, every all 
of this, the spending over the 

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next decade, the Green 
Revolution, whatever it, maybe 

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right, maybe cancel this, some 
student debt Etc. 

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It's all going to be, you know, 
basically monetized via the fed 

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or another. 
Another government entities 

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balance sheet. 
There are no structural buyers 

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of the debt and so your purchase
power roads away with as fast as

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a spec, it does the money. 
Any printer? 

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So I think that's, that's the 
bull case for Bitcoin is just 

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like it's just math. 
And when you say that, it sounds

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like super bold to someone that 
hasn't done the homework or kind

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of work through the game theory.
But like, you know what, 

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salesman reality of this of this
debt situation that were in an 

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experiment of right we're 50 
years in. 

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So where does the where do we 
go? 

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And I think my answer is 
obviously it's debasement. 

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So where do you want to put your
money? 

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Yeah they have no option but to 
print a I agree with you but 

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dealing you said something very 
interesting right which is 

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political ideas, you know, these
political ideas, they work and 

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they work in theory but in 
reality it's a different story 

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but I think history has shown 
that. 

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You can surely impose those 
political ideas on a populist or

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a significant amount of time and
of course reality snaps back but

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it's crazy how long they can 
hold on, right? 

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And specifically He let you know
the exempt. 

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Just just to mention one that to
dive deep into that but Soviet 

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Union, right? 
Yes. 

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How many it's a good thing is 
like 70, 80 years, right? 

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So I guess the reason that I'm 
saying this, I'm bringing this 

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up is the Our Generation, the 
Millennials and gen Z 

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generation. 
I think loves entitlements man. 

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You know, they love that idea of
entitlements. 

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I think the idea of entitlements
is only possible with Fiat money

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with that money printer with 
Spending. 

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Don't you think that a lot of 
hostility is going to be is 

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going to be at least pointed at 
the thing that a lot of people 

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are going to perceive as 
responsible for those 

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entitlements being taken away 
from them and I guess I would 

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reference really the predictions
in the book, The sovereign 

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individual where he said just 
that right? 

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A lot of people living in this 
old system in this giant you 

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know, welfare Giant Straw city 
of a welfare state and all of a 

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sudden, those entitlements that 
you fundamentally believe that 

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you're, you know, that you that 
you deserve are just ripped out 

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of your own hands. 
And I guess bitcoiners are in 

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the crosshairs for that. 
Yeah, yeah, for sure. 

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I mean that's that's, you know, 
not the cause but that's the 

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that's the solution but the the 
political, you know, opposition 

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to it and the Really the psyops 
right from a from a narrative 

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perspective, propaganda will be 
very intense. 

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I think that maybe this is a 
little nihilistic, a little sad,

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but it's more. 
So like there's there's kind of 

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a return in this shift, right in
this like big fourth turning 

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kind of thesis. 
We're like technological 

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advancement has brought us this 
far. 

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And now, you know, the monetary 
system has brought us this far 

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and there's kind of this this 
Line in the Sand, but it's not 

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Line in the Sand. 
It's not like one Event Horizon.

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But really if you think, I've 
like what the 2020s are, I've 

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already brought us and what 
where they're going, right? 

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What are the the world economic 
forum's, great plans for us and 

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to create a human race of 
basically cattle and this, you 

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know, technological panopticon 
dystopia and it'll be more of an

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individual level about Whether 
you want to opt out of that 

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system of global control and 
compliance and and, you know, 

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one of the keys there on that 
checklist is Sovereign monetary 

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or Sovereign economic autonomy. 
So, so if you don't have that, 

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then you have nothing, you 
can't. 

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You know, if you could if you 
can go anywhere in the world 

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with your money and your head in
theory, that's pretty powerful 

225
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in a world that's you know, 
increasingly polarizing and 

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bifurcating and you know who 
knows where you are. 

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Your political situation is 
there and so it's all relative 

228
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game and I think having that 
flexibility and freedom for 

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someone that's that's, you know,
young for someone in their 20s, 

230
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never mind that regardless of 
your age, you know, if you if 

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you want that economic 
sovereignty in the digital age 

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is probably not really many 
other places to look for that 

233
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list of economic empowerment. 
Nothing else is as important as 

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00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,600
money. 
Ultimately, as a tool, in my 

235
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opinion, I guess food. 
Sheltered the basics. 

236
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But yeah. 
So so Bitcoin is right in the 

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middle of this whole thing but 
it'll be at an individual level.

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Maybe a you could say of 
corporate level, some Will 

239
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Survive, but not everyone is 
going to, you know, 

240
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quote-unquote, make it. 
And that's somewhat of like a 

241
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harsh reality of this of this 
transition. 

242
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The goal is to get as many 
people, you know, if we're right

243
00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:01,500
here like everybody, we want 
Bitcoin in everyone's hands but 

244
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it's, you know, up to the 
individual to do that, that's 

245
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not on. 
On us. 

246
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:13,400
Why don't you? 
Yeah, I wish I could so Dylan, 

247
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the last couple of really it's 
been the last couple of months 

248
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:22,500
if you've been paying attention 
but the how do I put this the 

249
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just I guess I'll put it bluntly
the hostility by v b 

250
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:30,700
Administration towards the 
industry. 

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00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:36,500
I think they were waiting for an
excuse They're waiting for an 

252
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excuse to, you know, and with 
that excuse they denied Caitlin 

253
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,100
loans Bank custodia bank from 
getting a Federal Banking 

254
00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:48,000
Charter and then right as of 
right now there, you know, their

255
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,400
next Target is stable coins, 
right? 

256
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,600
We know that they made an 
example of Kraken 30 million 

257
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:59,300
dollar fine with the staking, 
maybe it's because we're slaves 

258
00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:00,800
to the new Cycles at simply 
Bitcoin. 

259
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,100
We have to cover the news every 
single day, but it just 

260
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:08,700
definitely does look Look 
targeted sophisticated, and 

261
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:11,000
there's this very excellent 
piece that laid it out by Nick. 

262
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,800
Carter called operation 
chokepoint 2.0 and he really 

263
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laid it out. 
He really made the case with all

264
00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:20,600
the examples, not to mention the
Senator Elizabeth Warren and 

265
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,000
Senator Marshall, Bill that 
would require Bitcoin developers

266
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,300
in the United States are 
registered with the federal 

267
00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:28,100
government to develop for like, 
absolutely Bonkers that you can 

268
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,900
see this in America. 
But clearly there is a, there's 

269
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:33,400
an agenda there. 
So, what are your thoughts on 

270
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,500
all of this? 
And I think it could tie in with

271
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:37,500
What you were saying not too 
long ago. 

272
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,300
Yeah. 
I mean I think definitely that 

273
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,800
took Point comparison is valid. 
I think also we should we should

274
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,500
be realistic and recognize and I
simply Bitcoin has definitely 

275
00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:54,100
been one of the media arms 
covering this that has 

276
00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:56,300
recognized it. 
There's a whole boatload of 

277
00:15:56,300 --> 00:16:00,400
Fraud and, you know, all sorts 
of shenanigans with crypto 

278
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,400
companies and, you know, the 
ponzi's and everything else that

279
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,800
touched hands with the US. 
As banking system that touched 

280
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,100
hands with Silver Gate signature
FTX, you know, these stable. 

281
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,500
But there's always a hot pile of
money, you know, of course, you 

282
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,500
know, billions of dollars of 
Leverage, you know, you know, 

283
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:18,700
between counterparties and 
everything else. 

284
00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:22,300
And there was a lot of fraud, 
kind of in that whole basket or 

285
00:16:22,308 --> 00:16:25,900
bubble, right? 
So so the response is one that I

286
00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:28,800
would fully expect from US 
banking system and that's to 

287
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,200
ramp it up to the point where, 
you know, only the Sterling 

288
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:37,500
companies are or you know, like 
just for Fred the finance be USD

289
00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:41,000
coin from paxos, right? 
Finance was doing sensor 

290
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,800
Shenanigans with a peg of that 
of that etherium based a coin 

291
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,800
and creating their own by net, 
smart chain base table coin, but

292
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,400
they didn't back it up and we'll
all the time. 

293
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,200
And they were, you know, 
counting at the same on their 

294
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,700
platform. 
So the New York Financial 

295
00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:59,900
Service, I forget the exact 
name, NY DFS came in, said back 

296
00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:01,900
to us know, you're done. 
You know, you can only redeem. 

297
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:04,500
Now you can order to create 
stable coins and you guys got a 

298
00:17:04,508 --> 00:17:05,500
year to basically get out of 
that. 

299
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,400
That. 
So yeah, it's coming. 

300
00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:09,300
I think it's not the end of the 
world. 

301
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:12,099
It's, you know, certainly u.s. 
Capital markets, the most 

302
00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:15,300
important but Bitcoin just going
to Route Around, it's going to 

303
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:16,900
do its thing. 
It's a global phenomenon. 

304
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:21,700
And and, you know, I think it'll
make another all-time high at 

305
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,599
some point and I really don't 
care what that timeline is to 

306
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:27,500
get there. 
I don't say, expect some shop 

307
00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:31,400
for a little bit while we kind 
of chop through this macro 

308
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,400
situation. 
But, you know, that the US has 

309
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,700
an open Capital markets. 
All right, so so they can't stop

310
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:41,300
all capital from coming. 
This thing, it's essentially 

311
00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:44,300
just a Global Currency pair, so 
there will be liquidy and that 

312
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:47,200
will probably be eventually 
they're going to attempt to 

313
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,800
consolidate that between the 
incumbents right bny Mellon and 

314
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,600
JP Morgan and her maybe not 
JPMorgan, but the incumbent is 

315
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,300
right? 
And then the legacy is just in 

316
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:59,900
the Legacy system serving as 
those rails and not as you know 

317
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,200
and not for coinbase or whoever 
else is is really doing a lot of

318
00:18:04,208 --> 00:18:06,600
volume with the Legacy system. 
Mmm, I think that's what they're

319
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,900
really trying to get to get a 
hold of. 

320
00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:13,600
So interesting. 
So you don't you don't think 

321
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,200
it's necessarily an attempt to 
slow down the adoption of 

322
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,700
Bitcoin. 
You think it's a legitimate 

323
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:23,700
government response at the 
Fallout from the ft x debacle. 

324
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:28,500
Yeah I mean and not to give the 
government any said legitimacy I

325
00:18:28,508 --> 00:18:30,900
think there's quite a lot of 
reasons to point that they are 

326
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:34,000
completely illiterate the 
illegitimate but aside Point 

327
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,300
like you know that's a system 
where operating under and you 

328
00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:40,900
know you can't just go create 
Around back, right? 

329
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:45,300
Like that's there is a there is 
a cartel of sorts, a regulatory 

330
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:49,200
cartel globally with the u.s. 
kind of operating as that had 

331
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,000
point. 
So, you know, they're going to 

332
00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:55,400
try to starve the Beast a bit 
but you can't write Bitcoins a 

333
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,700
10, you know, 10 million 100 
million headed Hydra this point.

334
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,600
And so you know the cats out of 
the bag, it's just a matter of 

335
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:06,800
you know, that it's been in the 
end, they fight you stage for a 

336
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,600
little bit. 
I just you know Bitcoin just 

337
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:09,900
keeps going back, stronger and 
stronger. 

338
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,500
Sure. 
And they're like, oh shit, you 

339
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:14,200
know, but they can't kill it. 
So I'm really not all that 

340
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,000
worried, to be honest, maybe 
that's a little bit naive 

341
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,200
though. 
No. 

342
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:26,400
You know, up the joke about this
all the time we say, we're just 

343
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,100
going to have to move till 
Salvador. 

344
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:31,600
Would you be willing to move to 
El Salvador Dylan Leclair if 

345
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,900
things really did get hairy, you
know, I would probably be 

346
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:40,100
willing to move anywhere 
depending on how you define bad 

347
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:43,600
but gonna probably stay in the 
West for a little bit. 

348
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:45,300
And then maybe, you know, who 
knows? 

349
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:48,800
I'll settle down a few different
places which El Salvador, maybe 

350
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,800
he's one. 
I have this infatuation somewhat

351
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,300
with the kind. 
Playing out the sovereign 

352
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:58,100
individual digital Nomad thesis 
for a little bit over the coming

353
00:19:58,100 --> 00:19:59,400
years. 
I mean that's the plan for my 

354
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,600
next year essentially and so 
we'll see where it goes but now 

355
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,100
Salvador is definitely, you 
know, it's looking good. 

356
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,900
Yeah, I tried it for a bit, it's
fun, but it does kind of feel 

357
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:17,900
like your home is a bag. 
So, I guess that's cool. 

358
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,100
Definitely cheap though. 
That's the good. 

359
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:22,500
That's, I guess the, the pros 
for it. 

360
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:30,100
Anyways, Dylan, don't you think 
that this, you know, potentially

361
00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:33,200
is forcing Bitcoin businesses 
overseas? 

362
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,200
And I think that was one of the 
main talking points that I've 

363
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:42,400
heard against this, this 
onslaught of Regulation. 

364
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:48,600
Yeah, I mean, potentially right.
Like it's certainly making a lot

365
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,300
more challenging for the even 
though the legitimate actors 

366
00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:55,800
here and it slows things down. 
I don't think it's an argument 

367
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,500
there but like, you know, 
there's a, there's a reason for 

368
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:02,400
the the scrutiny, right? 
It's like the largest players in

369
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,400
this industry were all, you 
know, in some ways. 

370
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,400
Fraudulent lied. 
There was a huge daisy chain and

371
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,000
now, you know, like, like even 
not to not to go down this 

372
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,900
Rabbit Hole to this time but 
like, there's legitimately 

373
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:17,300
massive question marks regarding
the world's biggest Bitcoin 

374
00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,100
could go play right now which is
financed, right? 

375
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:21,900
And they're like basically not 
allowed to operate in the US the

376
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:24,600
kind of Shadow operating in the 
US was by Nance us. 

377
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,600
But like they and essentially 
right there like seven, fifty 

378
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,900
sixty percent of all crypto 
trading volume right now and 

379
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:34,800
kind of liquidity, right? 
So and that's just a massive. 

380
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,300
It's a massive black box so I'm 
not like throwing shade at 

381
00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:38,800
Finance. 
It's just the reality that like,

382
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,700
it's way more nascent than I 
would have thought. 

383
00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:47,200
Even in 2023, which is super 
great because that means it's 

384
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,600
cheap, and it still has massive 
potential and it's going, it's 

385
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,800
barely just a teenager, but we, 
Recognize like it's barely just 

386
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,200
a teenager. 
A lot of people don't really 

387
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,700
understand this thing at all and
you know, someone operates fraud

388
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,500
via, you know, the Bitcoin or 
whatever crypto, right. 

389
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:08,900
And it's like someone in 
nineteen eighty or ninety 

390
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:10,800
saying, like, you know, the 
internet enables fraud and 

391
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,900
scamming it's like, yeah, of 
course it does. 

392
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:16,700
It's just, you know, it's not 
the internet's fault, it's not 

393
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:19,200
the protocol assault. 
So that's just an education 

394
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,000
process. 
And then, you know, we're both 

395
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,100
blessed with plenty of time to 
just kind of watch the Cards 

396
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:29,200
cards fall. 
Absolutely let's see, let's see 

397
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,900
where this rollercoaster ride 
takes us. 

398
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:34,800
So you mentioned by Nance. 
Now I think Finance is very 

399
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,100
interesting because don't they 
have the BNB token, aren't they 

400
00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:42,400
just issuing their own money? 
Like isn't that very similar to 

401
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,600
whatever the exit and then not 
to mention we don't know. 

402
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:49,400
Like they've been you know it's 
been very hard Finance hasn't 

403
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,500
showed their book their books 
and say last raise the money. 

404
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:54,700
I think the last time there is 
money was like in Right. 

405
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:58,300
So how would we know? 
We don't know and they do have a

406
00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:01,100
token, they're not you know, in 
theory, they could change the 

407
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:02,200
date. 
I mean they are operating, the 

408
00:23:02,208 --> 00:23:05,700
validators are like they could 
change the monetary policy in 

409
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:08,500
theory and practice, they have, 
you know, 60 to 70, estimated 

410
00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:11,900
percent of all tokens of this, 
you know, fifty billion dollar 

411
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:15,300
asset that they, you know, that 
definitely had an incentive to 

412
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:16,700
pump. 
And it's, you know, kind of 

413
00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:20,600
wildly, uh, performed everything
even Bitcoin to the downside, 

414
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,900
which doesn't never happens. 
So there's questions and That 

415
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:26,200
you know, really brought them up
and people have said it's fight 

416
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,800
or I'm delusional or whatever. 
And I'm just saying like hey 

417
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,600
guys like you know, this thing's
had a fifty billion dollar 

418
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,800
market cap with only it only 
trades in one place and their 

419
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,300
assets and liabilities are a 
black book because they don't 

420
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:41,100
have to show you them and 
they're saying, hey here's a 

421
00:23:41,108 --> 00:23:45,400
proof of assets report and I'm 
like assets, don't matter at 

422
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,000
all. 
And it's really not enough to 

423
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,400
say like I trust your word for 
it. 

424
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,500
So I'm not saying like sees you 
as an agenda is bad or whatever.

425
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:55,700
I'm just saying like There's 
obviously periods where they're 

426
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:58,000
proof of Reserve wallets have 
changed switch them up. 

427
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,800
They've they've commingled 
corporate funds and Recovery 

428
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,000
funds and customer funds and 
admitted to it. 

429
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,400
You know, they said here's a 
billion and be USD for Industry 

430
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,700
Recovery and we're like hey you 
sent that from the customers 

431
00:24:10,700 --> 00:24:14,600
wallets like a day ago and their
response essentially a blog post

432
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,300
was like oh no like our security
our internal exchange security 

433
00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:21,900
so good that we use corporate 
funds for in the same wallet. 

434
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:24,300
That was the response. 
Like the pr They did tweeted 

435
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:27,900
this out and I raise that up. 
If you were like Fudd, fun, fun 

436
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:30,800
fun. 
And I'm like, guys, like, okay, 

437
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,400
it's fun. 
The like, I don't have an 

438
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,900
agenda, like, I'm just like 
saying, like it's just, you 

439
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:40,800
know, take control of what you 
own is something, bad happens. 

440
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,000
It's all entire than yourself, 
like, you signed up for this and

441
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,400
you were trusting. 
Someone that yeah, doesn't. 

442
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:48,800
Whoo. 
How you going to enforce 

443
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,800
responsibility? 
If something bad happens? 

444
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:53,500
Not your keys and your coins. 
Apply. 

445
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:56,800
Stephen, you know, Nico like 
you're my friend, I trust you, 

446
00:24:56,808 --> 00:24:58,800
man. 
But like you're like, hey I'll 

447
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,900
hold this pick one for you. 
Don't worry, I got it. 

448
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,700
I'm like, yeah, maybe I trust 
you but eventually if I don't 

449
00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:08,700
and you scan me then, you know, 
I got scammed like, I his my 

450
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:12,300
fault, and I think just there's 
been a lot of hard lessons but 

451
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:16,000
like, you know, not 
unfortunately, like I just hope 

452
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,800
there's not more hard lessons to
come. 

453
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,400
And I think at some point there 
will be and not saying it's 

454
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,200
with, you know, the biggest 
elephant in the room or not, I'm

455
00:25:23,208 --> 00:25:25,700
just Saying like that we've seen
this stuff, repeat through the 

456
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:29,100
history of Bitcoin, there's this
ongoing process and I you know, 

457
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:32,400
unfortunately we regretfully say
that the next Bull Run. 

458
00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:35,100
We will see, you know, 10x to 
Shenanigans. 

459
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:38,700
We see, we saw this past bull 
market in terms of people losing

460
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:43,700
funds scams, you know, phishing 
scams kyc all this, all this 

461
00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:47,400
crazy stuff. 
So maybe that's pessimistic as 

462
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,200
well. 
But I think you were just going 

463
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,500
to we're going to go through 
another cycle. 

464
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:53,500
It's going to be 10x crazier. 
It's going to be 10x. 

465
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,100
The the amount of Fraud and 
that's you know a blessing in 

466
00:25:58,108 --> 00:26:03,200
the curse of this decentralized,
you know, internet money 

467
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,500
monetizing from scratch. 
It's just it's very darwinistic.

468
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,400
Yeah, did I completely agree? 
I think you know the was the 

469
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,400
first one Mount gox. 
Right? 

470
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,700
And then it just progressively. 
Just got bigger and bigger last 

471
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:21,100
blow up, you literally have Tom 
Brady and mr. 

472
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:26,700
Wonderful involved and they were
spokesman for you know the the 

473
00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:30,100
the FTX organization. 
So yeah and I agree maybe 

474
00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:32,000
perhaps. 
Next time a nation state will be

475
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:38,400
involved, you know it. 
I know it Ponzi like It sounds 

476
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,300
ludicrous. 
But if I told you what happened,

477
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,700
this Earth, this past year that 
with FTX stuff, if I told you 

478
00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:47,300
about the penthouse and the 
Bahamas and all that stuff and I

479
00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:49,200
told you about that five years 
ago, you would have laughed me 

480
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,800
out of the room. 
So yeah it's it's definitely 

481
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:56,200
definitely Wild West for sure. 
So I want to focus on something 

482
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,200
that you were mentioning earlier
and I think that's a very 

483
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,100
interesting topic and that's 
something that I've heard from 

484
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,800
people and I would say it's more
so of a disillusionment and when

485
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,900
I'm talking about Dylan is The 
fact that bind the B&B token has

486
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:15,600
outperformed Bitcoin like even 
even aetherium that wasn't the 

487
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,900
case etherium still hasn't made 
an all-time high in Bitcoin, but

488
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:22,300
if you're looking at the by 
Nance token, it has performed. 

489
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:24,800
It has outperformed Bitcoin 
which is extremely rare. 

490
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,100
Like you said, is that due to 
manipulation and of course, 

491
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:31,400
we're all speculating here. 
There's absolutely no way to do 

492
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,300
know this because it's all, you 
know, it's all the behind the 

493
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,700
behind the scenes, but what's 
your take on that? 

494
00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:39,400
What's going on there and your 
opinion. 

495
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,600
My take on it is that there was 
an obvious incentive in 2021 

496
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:49,000
with the Bitcoin. 
Broadly crypto, you know, pumped

497
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:52,200
where we saw three trillion 
dollars of my have imaginary 

498
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,600
wealth creation of probably just
you know in aggregate. 

499
00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,700
Let's say 100 maybe 200 billion 
dollars of capital inflow. 

500
00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:03,100
That's 200 billion could be 
really generous maybe 100 

501
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:05,000
billion total, maybe less than 
that. 

502
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:07,800
Could be 50 billion and raw us 
cash coming in. 

503
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:11,700
To this crypto ecosystem, where 
it, you know, got levered up, 

504
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:15,400
you know, with the D5 stuff I 
got levered up as phosphate 

505
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,500
funds tried, you know, 
cash-and-carry GPT, see starting

506
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:23,500
at you know 9 K 10 K buying up 
100,000 150,000 Bitcoin. 

507
00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:27,200
Sailor punting his corporate not
punting but like you know just 

508
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,700
all in this corporate treasury 
buys another 100,000 Bitcoin 

509
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,000
relatively Supply, an elastic, 
its source, Bitcoin goes to the 

510
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,400
moon and and you know the The 
theory Vault season, right? 

511
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,700
Is this pair, whatever it this 
trading pair of you know, 

512
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:47,100
altcoin BDC and whatever this 
altcoin is worth and there's 

513
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:49,200
really a lot of these things are
injured intrinsically doesn't 

514
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,400
matter if they have value like 
the the mean coins are literally

515
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,000
just a nihilistic Financial form
of gambling that's you know Less

516
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,100
Than Zero Sum because the 
exchange for takes their fees. 

517
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:03,300
But given this flying elasticity
of these things and the 

518
00:29:03,308 --> 00:29:06,000
volatility you know there's 
there's it's so illiquid right 

519
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,600
the bit asks are crazy. 
Wide. 

520
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,100
So little bit of money on either
side just moons the thing, 

521
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,100
right? 
And so all coin out performance 

522
00:29:13,100 --> 00:29:15,400
is a big narrative but in 
particular if you look like the 

523
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,200
biggest, the best performers 
during this kind of height 

524
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,900
phase, it was like exchange 
tokens, right? 

525
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:25,300
You saw Celsius, go Bonkers, you
saw ft x KO F TT, go bonkers the

526
00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:29,700
same time you know, by Nance, 
you know, trailed ftts a 

527
00:29:29,708 --> 00:29:32,600
performance by a couple weeks I 
might have that flipped it might

528
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,700
be financed went first and FTX 
started going insane but they 

529
00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:38,800
all perform Bitcoin like crazy 
and The other smaller market 

530
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,800
caps for sure. 
We less capital inflow but but 

531
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,300
people only look at the percent 
returns and you know, they'll 

532
00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:50,600
all of those things crash the 
correlation and and you know 

533
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:54,500
illiquidity traded both ways you
know as volatile asset to the 

534
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:57,000
upside more volatile than big 
ones, the downside as well. 

535
00:29:57,300 --> 00:30:00,400
And B&B was like kind of this 
weird Financial anomaly where as

536
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,900
you know 200 300 Vol asset in a 
bull market and a bear Market 

537
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:09,200
where Bitcoin is you know no, 
after its kind of all settled 

538
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,200
down Bitcoins a it's called it a
80 Vol asset. 

539
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,000
B & B is just around the same. 
It's a little higher but not 

540
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,200
double, not triple, like it 
wasn't a bull market in like 

541
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,900
those things. 
Make me scratch my head. 

542
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,200
I can't I can't, you know, know 
anything there. 

543
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,800
But ask yourself what the 
incentive is to pump your thing 

544
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,800
that you won't 70 billion of. 
And the thing is, the thing that

545
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,300
makes me fishy. 
It's like, you know, a smart 

546
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:38,700
Capital allocator, if they 
created Created money, created 

547
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:43,200
an asset from nothing and it 
within five years, For years, 

548
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:46,000
the thing was worth. 
Total market cap, 100 billion 

549
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,100
and you had 50 of that and, you 
know, you can unload that 50% 

550
00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:55,700
into the market but it would in 
theory makes sense to like take 

551
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:57,800
some chips off the table. 
If you were an unbiased capital 

552
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,100
allocator and the fact that 
they're like, oh we've never 

553
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:03,900
sold any and we don't leverage 
against it's like, okay then 

554
00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:06,500
what is the point of holding it?
There is no point. 

555
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:08,200
So so if you're never going to 
sell it because you don't want 

556
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,600
it, that to impact the market of
the down side where there's no 

557
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,000
real natural buyers, right? 
You're the primary Maker. 

558
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:16,600
You're the primary liquidity. 
That's your all the liquidity 

559
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:19,700
financed platform. 
You're not, you can't really 

560
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:22,700
sell any. 
So the thing that I would worry 

561
00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:26,000
about in the reason FTX went 
down was because they were 

562
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,800
borrowed a collateralized 
against the solvency of the, the

563
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:31,700
aggregate system, their 
collateralized against Iran, the

564
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:33,700
fiend token. 
So I haven't I couldn't prove 

565
00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:35,300
the finance. 
It's doing that. 

566
00:31:35,300 --> 00:31:38,200
Do I think that's it's you know,
majority chance they are. 

567
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,100
I don't, I mean I hope not. 
But certainly the a performance 

568
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:45,100
is Is, is noteworthy and not 
really know where the integrate 

569
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:46,300
way. 
It's not worthy and like, a very

570
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:48,900
suspect way, my opinion. 
So I'm going to be wrong there. 

571
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:52,400
Of course, I'm not accusing them
of anything, but I would 

572
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,100
encourage people to be more 
skeptical of the world in 

573
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,600
general. 
These are not outrageous things 

574
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,800
to ask your post forward. 
It's not fun. 

575
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,900
It's like basic due diligence. 
So, yeah, that's my thoughts on 

576
00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:07,200
that. 
Interesting. 

577
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,600
Yeah, and I agree that it is 
kind of. 

578
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:13,100
It is kind of like this, this 
weird, Only right? 

579
00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:15,500
It is strange and then right? 
What's that? 

580
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:16,800
It is a very famous. 
Saying, rise. 

581
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,600
If you don't understand, like, 
just look at the incentives. 

582
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,700
And yeah, totally incentivize to
to manipulate it to his benefit 

583
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:29,200
and I think you pointed out the 
lack of liquidity is interesting

584
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,800
if you want to sell a lot, 
anyways, for get carried away. 

585
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,400
So doing I think a lot of people
last bull market or let down. 

586
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,300
I think a lot of people were 
anticipating 100K Bitcoin, 

587
00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:50,300
minimum I come from the school 
of thought, that it's 

588
00:32:50,300 --> 00:32:53,700
interesting how the CCP band 
Bitcoin mining, right at the 

589
00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:56,200
perfect time in the Bitcoin bull
market. 

590
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,900
And that, you know, shortly 
after we had a massive price 

591
00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:04,700
crash songs with the hash rate. 
So we're you one of those people

592
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:07,600
and you know I could say I was 
definitely on a personal level. 

593
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:11,300
Were you one of those people 
that were expecting 100K Bitcoin

594
00:33:11,900 --> 00:33:15,300
the lat? 
Bull market and Y, then we hit 

595
00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:18,800
that it, we're people overly 
bullish, there's this Theory, 

596
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,000
also diminishing returns just 
kind of, makes sense, right? 

597
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,100
It's a lot harder for Bitcoin to
get from 50k to 100K than it was

598
00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:27,600
for it to get from a dollar to 
two dollars, right? 

599
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,200
So what are your thoughts on 
this? 

600
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,800
And a lot of people see, it 
Dylan is the opportunity are 

601
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,600
people late to bitcoin. 
No, I don't. 

602
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,300
People are late and answer 
question. 

603
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:44,400
I was at the time I was Pretty 
pretty bullish on the price 

604
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,000
action, kind of an in the 
spring. 

605
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,700
Obviously I was you know at over
100 percent of my net worth and 

606
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,400
Bitcoin by the summer of 2020. 
Kind of acquiring really any 

607
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,400
leverage. 
I could irresponsible but as a 

608
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,500
19-0 as a 19 year old kid like 
transparently I was I was doing 

609
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:05,200
that pumped like crazy retrace, 
with the China stuff still, you 

610
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,199
know, fall asleep. 
Long got got some call option 

611
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,199
exposure and a bunch of other 
mining plays in the summer. 21 

612
00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:17,500
and read those rather is pretty 
high and then fully round trip. 

613
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:20,400
Like I have a hot or stack, I 
don't touch it. 

614
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,500
I'm constantly adding to it IDC.
A given my job as a market 

615
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:27,500
analyst and someone looking at 
data and markets in hours a day 

616
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:32,300
like I also have something like 
a portfolio book where our 

617
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,800
actively manage it a little bit 
more. 

618
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:36,900
So you know, I buy some Equity 
sometimes I short, equities, 

619
00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:40,199
bonds options, all these other 
things, and I don't like to 

620
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,500
given the size of my like, 
audience now that I kind of Just

621
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:44,800
stumbled into. 
I don't like to like transparent

622
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,500
not transparently to my book, 
but I don't like the, you know, 

623
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,400
post my book all the time. 
I might look meaning like you 

624
00:34:50,408 --> 00:34:53,300
know, whether I'm buying this or
selling that, oh, occasionally, 

625
00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:56,900
but I won't have to disclose it 
because I don't think, I don't 

626
00:34:56,900 --> 00:34:58,700
want to influence my followers 
to do this for that. 

627
00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:01,200
Other than, like, say for 
yourself a long term, I think 

628
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,100
it's a pretty reasonable 
position to kind of put forward,

629
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,200
but no, I didn't, I didn't sell 
the top. 

630
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,700
I wish I wish I did. 
You know, in hindsight is always

631
00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:14,100
20/20 but, you know, since I 
think, First quarter of 2021 by 

632
00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:16,300
2022. 
Rather I'm sorry when it's 

633
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:19,900
pretty clear that the kind of 
the credit system, the economic 

634
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:23,700
tide was turning a little bit. 
You know that the didn't make 

635
00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:26,600
the foot perfect Edna 2021 of 
November. 

636
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,600
But once it was clear that okay 
the bond markets has to sell off

637
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,000
here because inflation's you 
know six seven hundred basis 

638
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,300
points over you know all 
durations of the yields you know

639
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:42,300
we're in for some pain and kind 
of liquidity suck. 

640
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,300
And I think we're still in that 
I like I still think a recession

641
00:35:45,300 --> 00:35:47,000
is coming. 
The economy is surprisingly 

642
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,100
resilient and nominal terms, but
I do think we're headed for 

643
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:53,700
somewhat of a kind of the debt 
that unwind. 

644
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:57,400
But right we just saw massive 
wealth destruction in 2022 from 

645
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,300
all time bubble, everything 
bubble highs and you just look 

646
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:04,000
at like what the wealth effect 
does to a real economy on a lag.

647
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,500
And there's, you know, there's 
certainly some contraction 

648
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:10,300
coming in my opinion and so, so 
Bitcoins going to do extremely 

649
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:13,600
well over the long term but like
the Only reason I pay attention 

650
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,300
to any of this economic data and
cycles and everything else are 

651
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:18,500
at post. 
The FED funds rate Futures, like

652
00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:21,400
why that's the fascinates me is 
because, you know, we're always 

653
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,200
focused hyper focused on the 
numerator BTC, which is, which 

654
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,500
is the important thing here. 
But from an exchange rate 

655
00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:28,800
perspective, there's going to be
times and asymmetric times at 

656
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,300
that, for the USD component of 
all, this is going to be the 

657
00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:33,900
driving force. 
It's going to be the reason 

658
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,400
Bitcoin takes up ticks down and 
we've often see we saw that on a

659
00:36:37,408 --> 00:36:40,800
lot of 2022, right? 
So I mean today, Bitcoins up 

660
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,800
eight 10 percent equity. 
He's our, you know, mildly 

661
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,900
green, that's pretty encouraging
to see and it shows someone of 

662
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:51,300
like a supply-demand mismatch at
least locally, you know, maybe 

663
00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:54,600
like sellers in aggregate are 
exhausted after getting 

664
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,800
absolutely pummeled over the 
last year but Bitcoin has ever 

665
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,300
since Global asset, right? 
As it's monetizing on when 

666
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:04,100
everyone's balance sheet around 
the world bitcoiners should 

667
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:07,200
recognize and I think even 
honestly be encouraged by the 

668
00:37:07,208 --> 00:37:11,100
fact that Bitcoin is trading 
with global liquidity as the 

669
00:37:11,108 --> 00:37:14,200
dollar strengthens. 
You know, and and on an 

670
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,600
aggregate, everybody short 
dollars in this financials, this

671
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,100
current monetary system. 
And so as if for some reason the

672
00:37:20,108 --> 00:37:24,100
dollars, right, like just this 
basic math, like denominator USD

673
00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:27,600
is increasing the numerator. 
BTC is just all else being 

674
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,200
equal, right? 
And Bitcoin exchange rate drops 

675
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,200
a little bit. 
Like I think that's a natural 

676
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,400
and I think that's a good thing 
and it shows Bitcoins maturing 

677
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,700
and that you know there's gonna 
be a lot more liquidity that can

678
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:39,000
flood into this thing as a 
monetary asset. 

679
00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:41,200
But people were, you know, 
monetize bonds. 

680
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,400
People might ask equities He's 
right. 

681
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,500
And then, as now, bonds are sold
off and equities are more 

682
00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:50,000
expensive relative to bonds than
ever, right? 

683
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,300
So people are still have a psych
monetary premium for equities as

684
00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:55,700
like the store value. 
But now that's a right here. 

685
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:58,600
Like the interesting thing is 
that sand P has like an earnings

686
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,600
yield right now this year, five 
percent but you can also get 

687
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,100
that risk-free risk-free as in 
you know the government is going

688
00:38:06,100 --> 00:38:10,200
to pay you by printing press or 
by force via taxation but that 

689
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,700
that's short-term steps plan. 5%
to So stocks are now in this 

690
00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:16,900
weird place where like they're 
down 20% from the highs but 

691
00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:20,200
they're more overvalued 
relatively than they've been in 

692
00:38:20,300 --> 00:38:23,900
decades. 
So like this whole kind of 

693
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:26,100
unwind I think has yet to play 
out in full. 

694
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,500
I think Bitcoin you know if 
there is some massive risk off 

695
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,300
Rally or risk-off downturn 
Bitcoins not going to be 

696
00:38:32,308 --> 00:38:36,200
insulated, I think that's 
natural but could the bottom be?

697
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,100
And of course you know 50 16k 
15K like half the industry went 

698
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:41,200
bankrupt, right? 
Right. 

699
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,900
Like I didn't show up all my 
Chips in the middle at 16th and 

700
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,200
I'm totally fine with that. 
I got it back, right. 

701
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,000
So I think everyone's really 
focused on like this, the 

702
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,800
bottom. 
And, you know, like and that's 

703
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,100
fair, right? 
Like I would have loved to it, 

704
00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:56,900
call it to the T, but I also 
think that, you know, we should 

705
00:38:56,900 --> 00:39:00,300
be prepared for anything and if 
Bitcoin wix2 10K because, you 

706
00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:02,300
know, the financial system blows
up tomorrow. 

707
00:39:02,300 --> 00:39:04,200
Like, that shouldn't change your
position. 

708
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,600
All right. 
So like just having that ability

709
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,500
to tolerate volatility to the 
upside and downside is it's 

710
00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:11,600
something that you should have. 
If you have a long-term Outlook,

711
00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:16,500
Absolutely Dylan. 
One of the things that you 

712
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:20,200
mentioned, and I kind of want to
double back on that, right? 

713
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,600
Which is in your mentioning, you
said that there could be a 

714
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,400
potential contraction in 2023 
and this is actually a similar 

715
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,600
question. 
I see dr. 

716
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,700
Jeff Ross and the chat I asked 
him this when he came on the on 

717
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:35,900
the pot a couple weeks ago. 
And you know what the way that 

718
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:39,800
I'm seeing it is rightly the 
what the, you know, the central 

719
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,600
Bankers have been telling us 
over the last couple months, 

720
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,600
right? 
Just it's going to be a soft 

721
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:44,900
Landing. 
Everything's going to be okay. 

722
00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:47,800
But so far right you have the 
employment numbers. 

723
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,900
They were pretty solid they're 
pretty good. 

724
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:53,300
So I mean were they able to pull
this off? 

725
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:57,200
Were they able to print this 
ungodly amount of money with 

726
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,500
absolutely no consequence or do 
you believe this is the Calm 

727
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:03,300
before the storm? 
And the reason I'm saying that 

728
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:07,900
is because I saw a tweet that 
you posted two images and it was

729
00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:10,800
fascinating, was like, yeah, the
US economy is fine. 

730
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,800
Everything is going to be 
happening. 

731
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,100
You At the date since 2007. 
So of course, you know, we're 

732
00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:19,200
not fortune tellers, we can't 
read into the future, but what 

733
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,900
does your gut tell you till in 
the Claire? 

734
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,900
Yeah, my gut tells me and I'm 
prepared for really any outcome,

735
00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:31,100
but I got tells me that we got 
some, we got some ugliness to 

736
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:34,600
turn through. 
I you know it's like the 

737
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,100
conversation has gone from our 
Landing to soft Landing to like 

738
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:44,500
no Landing no recession and I 
think and I am not not held 

739
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:46,700
accountable but, you know, put 
me in this Camp as well as 

740
00:40:46,700 --> 00:40:50,100
thinking the downturn as theirs 
as a result of this kind of re 

741
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:53,100
ratchet higher. 
Interest rates and then you know

742
00:40:53,100 --> 00:40:55,600
the duration value of all these 
assets, right? 

743
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,500
When money was free on the cost 
of capital in real terms was - 

744
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,900
the value of everything else was
in theory infinite it just 

745
00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:03,600
didn't compute. 
So we have this Global 

746
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,100
everything bubble interest rates
in the market, essentially 

747
00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:10,900
forced the FED to tighten a 
short-term interest rates, kind 

748
00:41:10,900 --> 00:41:14,000
of, you know, went to the moon 
because of this inflation. 

749
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,300
Right. 
And here we are and I think this

750
00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:21,900
isn't, you know, Max Payne. 
I mean for Bitcoin or Krypto or 

751
00:41:21,900 --> 00:41:26,700
your favorite, you know, social 
media app, ticker, right Ike. 

752
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,900
The bottom could, you know, 
Wick, it could be very well in, 

753
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,000
but I think people should just 
look too. 

754
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:38,100
Similar analogy is whether it's 
2,000, you know, 2008, whether 

755
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:41,600
it's the 2000 Tech, boom, Tech 
bust, whether it's the 70s 

756
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,800
inflation, right? 
And you should look at hike 

757
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,700
interest rates Cycles. 
You should look at SP and you 

758
00:41:46,700 --> 00:41:48,900
can and you should like look at 
how long these things 

759
00:41:49,100 --> 00:41:52,400
potentially take to play out. 
As well as like you know the 

760
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,600
kind of the crazy relative 
rallies from from the local 

761
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,200
bottoms that assets have right? 
That's indy500. 

762
00:42:00,300 --> 00:42:03,400
Didn't-didn't bottom for 24 to 
36. 

763
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,200
I think it was 30 months after 
the top and tech stocks and the 

764
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,600
S&P 500 would have 50 percent 
right? 

765
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,200
So it's the tech. 
Boom and wasn't even known as a 

766
00:42:11,208 --> 00:42:13,500
real. 
Real bad reception and that some

767
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:15,900
people hundred still fell 50 
percent, right. 

768
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:19,300
So like I think it's just 
whether it's Bitcoin or not like

769
00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:21,200
you know Bitcoin went down, 80 
75 percent. 

770
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,900
Right. 
Like certainly painful but I 

771
00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:27,400
think yeah, mentally you should 
prepare for for, you know, a 

772
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,500
good amount of chop. 
I think we got some some real 

773
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:34,400
pain essentially and that in 
that the global economy to come 

774
00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:38,300
and and the US will be at the 
relatively the best in the best 

775
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:41,100
position. 
Our Capital markets will be the 

776
00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:44,900
best potentially and the dollars
going to be relatively great 

777
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:48,000
place to be compared to all 
these other developed market and

778
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,700
Emerging Market currencies. 
But the dollar will still be 

779
00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:56,200
devaluing in real purchasing 
power terms and I think you know

780
00:42:56,700 --> 00:43:00,100
monetary repression Financial 
repression, you know, inflation 

781
00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:06,100
above interest rates, even if 
it's 6% inflation and 5% or 

782
00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:09,400
maybe they even, you know, get 
that CPI annual number down to 

783
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,500
34 percent. 
While their short-term rates are

784
00:43:12,508 --> 00:43:16,300
at 55 and a half, maybe I'd 
happens for a little bit but on 

785
00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:18,200
a long enough time frame, they 
can't do that with that. 

786
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,400
The GDP at 100 120 percent. 
You can't you Have to get the 

787
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,600
real debt burdens down the CBO 
just came out today. 

788
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:29,400
Projecting you know that you to 
GDP 10 years from now to be at 

789
00:43:29,408 --> 00:43:31,700
the same level right? 
So they're not even really 

790
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:34,700
projecting any grounds made up 
there just going to tack on 

791
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:38,700
another 10 trillion a debt right
just create more money injected 

792
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:42,400
in the banking system and I 
think we're going to see that 

793
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,700
that that theory doesn't really 
work. 

794
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:48,400
Well it's not going to be it's 
not gonna be a flat linear line,

795
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,000
right? 
Of productivity and debt like 

796
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:52,600
there. 
Kind of projecting on these 

797
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,900
models and the reality of this 
debt, overhang and Global debt 

798
00:43:56,900 --> 00:44:01,500
levels and all demographics is 
going to kind of lead to some 

799
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:03,500
really nasty. 
I'm lines, like, we've already 

800
00:44:03,500 --> 00:44:07,000
seen economic Cycles. 
Kind of, like, we did, we jacked

801
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,600
the money full of the, the world
economy, full of funny money, we

802
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,700
didn't really even make it 18 
months without that, that that 

803
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:17,400
kind of real economic activity 
turning over, right? 

804
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,200
Like, we still have a really hot
economy and inflation terms. 

805
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,100
In nominal terms, but adjust 
that for inflation, we're not 

806
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:25,500
growing. 
This isn't growth, right? 

807
00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:29,600
It's just it's you know, 
apathetic lethargic and we have 

808
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,700
an aging population of Boomers 
that are about to end. 

809
00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:35,100
You know, all go into retirement
and sit back on there, you know,

810
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:36,500
on their yacht and their second 
home. 

811
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,100
While the Millennials don't own 
anything, right? 

812
00:44:39,100 --> 00:44:41,700
So like there's really 
interesting Dynamic at play 

813
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:43,800
here. 
It's going to it's going to take

814
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,200
a while but I think that whether
I don't think a recession, a 

815
00:44:47,208 --> 00:44:49,700
strong one is in the cards for 
2023. 

816
00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:53,400
I think that's honestly a story.
That could could go into 2024 

817
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:57,400
and you know like like hold you 
hold Bitcoin. 

818
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,700
Have some stuff that it doesn't 
matter what the next 18, 24 

819
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:04,000
months of price action have, but
like I feel very comfortable, 

820
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,000
having a whole large chunk of 
Bitcoin and a good chunk of 

821
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,500
dollars ready to buy Bitcoin or 
anything else and he's like, I 

822
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:15,100
think it's not it's not a kind 
of linear device debasement and 

823
00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:17,700
that some points you have 
periods where the dollars 

824
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:22,000
actually you know Increase in 
purchasing power, in an 

825
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,400
asymmetric way, relative 
everything else, right? 

826
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,800
As a function of these delivery 
things as a function of a credit

827
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,100
system, kind of unwinding. 
So that's kind of why I have a 

828
00:45:30,108 --> 00:45:33,300
little both try to, you know, 
balance that those two. 

829
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,600
So, I want to pull up this this 
image because I think it's a 

830
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,200
good visual representation of 
the situation that you were 

831
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:46,200
explaining and and I think Lynn 
put it perfectly right? 

832
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,100
The US Treasury Department, 
actually published this and for 

833
00:45:49,100 --> 00:45:50,000
all Listeners. 
Right. 

834
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,200
It has historical and projected 
and then it has a metric that 

835
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,000
says debt held by public. 
And it just it, dude, it's 

836
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,400
absolutely crazy, dude. 
So this is what you're talking 

837
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:00,800
about, right? 
Yeah. 

838
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:05,300
And that's that's basically mmt 
visualize that. 

839
00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:07,900
I mean, that's that's a not a 
free market. 

840
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:13,600
That is the nationalization of 
everything and the sense 

841
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:16,200
essentially, the implementation 
of communist. 

842
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,600
I mean, because okay, if you 
think about what seven hundred 

843
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,900
percent, Debt to GDP is right. 
Like that means that for, you 

844
00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:28,300
know, the populace creates 10 
trillion, dollars of 

845
00:46:28,300 --> 00:46:31,500
productivity. 
And there's seven seventy 

846
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:34,700
trillion dollars of debt to be 
paid off to the government 

847
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:36,600
itself, right? 
So so what is it? 

848
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,500
It's like an indentured 
servitude by your own 

849
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:45,200
governmental body, right? 
For the collective like like 

850
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,100
what is that Finance they 
financially that's like 

851
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:52,400
literally then implementation of
top-down communism. 

852
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,800
That sounds like super super 
dark and maybe a little bit 

853
00:46:54,800 --> 00:47:00,400
hyperbolic but like I think my 
my my response to that chart is 

854
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,000
that the US has opened Capital 
markets at least for now, right?

855
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,600
Unless there's some drastic 
change and that the money is 

856
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,300
going to flow worth. 
Reinvest the guy. 

857
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:11,900
You should, you should pull up. 
If you think about Bitcoin Versa

858
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:14,800
dollar ticker or really anything
like everything is relative 

859
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,400
hair, you should pull up a chart
of the the US dollar relative 

860
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:25,600
the Arjun Arjun time pay. 
So it's usda-ars I believe. 

861
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,000
And and look at the daily weekly
monthly candles of this thing 

862
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,800
and it's actually crazy to 
visualize just this, this 

863
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,900
unbelievable debasement and I 
don't know if you can pull it up

864
00:47:37,900 --> 00:47:42,200
now or you have that prepared 
but it is it is just quite a 

865
00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:44,700
amazing charcoal. 
Look at it was I mean it, you 

866
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:46,800
feel bad for the there's there's
no drop. 

867
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,800
There's no drawdowns, right? 
It's just a steady dose of 

868
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,900
devaluation every single day. 
It's systematic political and 

869
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:56,300
the reality is their data is 
actually much better. 

870
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,900
Much better than the actual 
situation but to a less drastic 

871
00:47:59,900 --> 00:48:01,200
extent. 
This I think of Bitcoin 

872
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,400
interacting with the dollar, 
right? 

873
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,000
It's obviously a lot more 
volatile Bitcoin has this kind 

874
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,800
of wild card in the room that 
anybody can flood to and 

875
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,900
oftentimes flood to it once 
which leads to these crazy crazy

876
00:48:12,900 --> 00:48:16,300
explosions but it's all relative
game, right? 

877
00:48:16,300 --> 00:48:18,200
So it's the dollar. 
They're literally telling you to

878
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,100
your face, they're going to 
continue to print this thing. 

879
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,700
And so, you know, I think, 
natural economics, human 

880
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:27,900
incentives are To play a big, 
big force, and people are going 

881
00:48:27,900 --> 00:48:29,100
to go where your money is 
treated best. 

882
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:31,700
Just like, look at that. 
It's just, it's just up only man

883
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:34,700
and that even that did the daily
chart looks the same. 

884
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:37,800
It's just like, literally 
there's not even a red candle, 

885
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,600
it's insane. 
It's absolutely wild. 

886
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,700
And then that reminds me of the 
I'm glad that you brought up 

887
00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:47,100
Argentina, right? 
The recent Bloomberg article and

888
00:48:47,100 --> 00:48:49,900
what they were remember 
reporting this not too long ago 

889
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:52,000
like a couple weeks ago 95 
percent inflation. 

890
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,600
Now it's up to 99 percent 
inflation. 

891
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,800
That's absolutely wild and 
What's really interesting also 

892
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,700
is that they obviously they went
to the IMF, they wanted, you 

893
00:49:01,708 --> 00:49:05,100
know, a debt deal and part of 
that deal the IMF was like hey 

894
00:49:05,300 --> 00:49:08,200
we'll give it to you but you 
must adopt Yuma. 

895
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,000
You must be incentivize the 
adoption of Bitcoin in the 

896
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:16,600
country, dude, it's wild man. 
So like I don't know what do you

897
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,100
think about the 99 percent 
inflation? 

898
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:23,900
The hostility from the IMF which
obviously makes perfect sense. 

899
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:25,400
But what are your thoughts on 
all that? 

900
00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:29,800
Yeah, I mean I think again, this
is kinda to Circle back to what 

901
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,700
we said at the beginning. 
Like this is an individual's 

902
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:37,700
game and and you know there's 
there's certainly a level of 

903
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:40,400
competent, a financial literacy 
and technological, literacy 

904
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,800
required to, you know, adopt the
coin in the self Sovereign way. 

905
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,400
But I can assure you that there 
a Bitcoin black markets just 

906
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,600
like they're in a Argentina not 
to encourage Black Market 

907
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,700
activity but they're not 
official dollar peso exchange 

908
00:49:55,700 --> 00:49:58,300
rate you Just put on the screen.
That's the official one, that's 

909
00:49:58,300 --> 00:50:01,400
not the that's not the street 
price which is actually much 

910
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,400
worse, right? 
All right. 

911
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,000
And you know much much stronger 
for the pay, so we can for the 

912
00:50:06,008 --> 00:50:08,500
dollar, that's the government, 
the Government rate, right? 

913
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:11,000
So inflation is actually much 
much worse. 

914
00:50:11,300 --> 00:50:12,800
All right. 
So that's Teddy it, that the 

915
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,700
market phenomenon is actually 
create that perfect chart. 

916
00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:17,700
It's the government literally 
just giving you the inflation 

917
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:20,000
data or the pressing data that's
cooked, right? 

918
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,400
The official exchange rate. 
And so I think that, you know, 

919
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,100
people are going to adopt 
Quentin the self-serving way 

920
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:30,400
because I've talked to people 
that have done it in South 

921
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,800
America, I've talked, I've 
talked to people that have, you 

922
00:50:32,808 --> 00:50:38,900
know, actively fled regimes or 
secured their wealth in, you 

923
00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:40,800
know, emerging markets and all 
over the world, right? 

924
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:45,600
So I think, you know, it's an 
education thing obviously, you 

925
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,400
know, it's it takes a while back
when still very young, but it's 

926
00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:51,600
for certain people for families 
for companies. 

927
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:55,600
You know? 
It's a having something that is 

928
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,100
a liability. 82. 
No one is an extremely powerful 

929
00:50:58,100 --> 00:51:02,100
thing and honestly, like still 
I'm pretty bullish on like the 

930
00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:06,400
adoption of, you know, like for 
instance like tether on Tron is 

931
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,300
extremely popular is tether like
the best thing for people to 

932
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:11,100
store all their families. 
I'll even know. 

933
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,900
But you know, these people want 
dollars, they want something 

934
00:51:13,900 --> 00:51:16,200
that's, you know, stable to them
on a day-to-day basis. 

935
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,900
I know the dollar purchasing 
power isn't stable but on a 

936
00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:21,400
week-to-week day-to-day basis 
for, for for these people, it's 

937
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,600
extremely stable. 
And so they you know, that 

938
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,800
adoption I think is a bridge but
ultimately You're talking about 

939
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,200
the rugs and the collapses 
earlier. 

940
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:29,800
I'm not saying tethers, bad or 
not. 

941
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,300
I'm just saying like there's a 
liability there, right there. 

942
00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:35,900
They're issuing you this 
trusted, you know, token and 

943
00:51:35,900 --> 00:51:37,200
they can freeze it. 
They can steal it. 

944
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,100
They can, you know, Take the 
Money and Run, right? 

945
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:43,400
It's there's a liability bacon 
there and I'll stable Queens 

946
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,600
have that model for now. 
Decentralized Solutions are 

947
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,500
attempting to be built but we're
not there yet you know SATs on 

948
00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:51,100
the lightning Network dollars on
the lightning Network these Taro

949
00:51:51,100 --> 00:51:52,900
protocol. 
It's really interesting stuff. 

950
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,700
We don't really have the 
implementation of it yet. 

951
00:51:56,100 --> 00:52:00,100
But I think ultimately Bitcoin 
on chain, but really, mostly 

952
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:06,700
lightning adoption quickly 
onboard users is, you know, the 

953
00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:10,200
the kill not, you know, one of 
the killer apps for Bitcoin and 

954
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:11,600
we've just scratched the surface
there. 

955
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,300
It's, I mean, we're really in 
year maybe one and a half of 

956
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:18,000
lightning being good enough to 
kind of actually operate on a 

957
00:52:18,008 --> 00:52:20,700
meaningful scale and some would 
even say we're not even at that 

958
00:52:20,700 --> 00:52:23,400
point yet, so that's going to go
exponential and it's not even 

959
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,100
going to be exactly expressed 
Actually into the exchange rate 

960
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:30,200
at Elliot at first, right? 
And the same way that the 

961
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,800
grayscale are born. 
Michael sailor 5x the Bitcoin 

962
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,800
price, you know, with some 
leverage, Andy, John's in there,

963
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,700
helping, obviously. 
But, you know, this, you know, 

964
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:43,800
millions and millions of people 
in developing markets, 

965
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:47,600
onboarding on the lightning. 
And, you know, somewhat kind of 

966
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,600
becoming familiar with Bitcoin 
as a medium of exchange and even

967
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,400
potentially unit of account 
earning Bitcoins earning SATs. 

968
00:52:54,300 --> 00:52:56,200
That's, that's what, you know. 
Why? 

969
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,300
This thing is going to win, is 
not because regardless of what 

970
00:52:59,300 --> 00:53:02,900
the US does, regardless of what 
China does, like, people are 

971
00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:06,900
utilizing this instrument, this,
this engineering solution, and I

972
00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:09,300
think, I mean, you guys have a 
show on it every day, I talk 

973
00:53:09,300 --> 00:53:11,700
about this every day. 
It's very much, it's very 

974
00:53:11,700 --> 00:53:13,900
misunderstood. 
It takes a lot longer than I 

975
00:53:13,900 --> 00:53:17,000
thought it was going to take 
that education and, you know, 

976
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,600
know a lot of people don't dive 
in and do 200 hours of reading 

977
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,900
and learning on something, once 
they become a little fascinator 

978
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:25,700
intrigued by it. 
The Bitcoin is the most 

979
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:27,500
convincing In that are, you 
know, all screaming at each 

980
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:30,900
other having late like have 
laser eyes like, yeah, they've 

981
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:35,600
we've done that due diligence 
the conviction is a, you know, 

982
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,900
natural response. 
But most people haven't, most 

983
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:40,300
people are like, listen 
speculative, internet money is 

984
00:53:40,300 --> 00:53:43,400
cool things, you're telling me 
you're cool energy, markets, and

985
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:46,600
inflation and all this Yahoo 
stuff that you don't really 

986
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:47,400
know. 
I'm a dentist. 

987
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,000
I don't really care about any of
this stuff. 

988
00:53:50,300 --> 00:53:52,100
I don't need to, I don't really 
want to invest my money. 

989
00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:54,600
I want to save, right? 
And you're trying to, like, 

990
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,300
explain something to this. 
This person that is never even 

991
00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:59,500
stepped inside the world. 
You're trying to explain. 

992
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,100
So it takes time. 
It's going to take. 

993
00:54:02,500 --> 00:54:04,700
I think a little bit longer than
we think but you know there's 

994
00:54:04,700 --> 00:54:07,300
certainly a case where the 
gradually then suddenly aspect. 

995
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:10,000
Is that play here? 
The question is like where are 

996
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,600
we on that inflection point? 
I don't know, but I certainly 

997
00:54:13,300 --> 00:54:14,600
want to be along for the ride 
and will be. 

998
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:19,000
So we will see ya man I'm being 
in the trenches with you. 

999
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,600
Now you mentioned something and 
it's honestly something that 

1000
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,400
bothered me right? 
Which is specifically Trees that

1001
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,200
have Financial privilege. 
They have country that countries

1002
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,100
that have relatively stable, 
Fiat, currencies people are just

1003
00:54:33,100 --> 00:54:35,300
not incentivize. 
You said it like your dentist, 

1004
00:54:35,300 --> 00:54:38,300
you just don't care. 
But what's really fascinating is

1005
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:40,900
when you speak to an Argentine, 
you speak to a Venezuelan, then 

1006
00:54:40,900 --> 00:54:44,400
you tell them about Bitcoin. 
It's like where do I sign up? 

1007
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,000
This sounds like a phenomenal 
idea. 

1008
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:52,300
That sounds like a great idea. 
So And I agree and Jeff Booth 

1009
00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:54,300
came on the show. 
I was like, Hey like like aren't

1010
00:54:54,300 --> 00:54:57,500
you worried that this is 
happening and his response is 

1011
00:54:57,500 --> 00:54:59,300
fascinating Dylan. 
He said the people that are 

1012
00:54:59,300 --> 00:55:03,100
closest to the to the monopolies
are the ones that, you know, are

1013
00:55:03,100 --> 00:55:07,400
going to be the latest to wake 
up, like, they're not 

1014
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,300
incentivised to wake up, they 
benefit from this system. 

1015
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:15,800
Yep. 
Yeah, that's that's perfectly 

1016
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,500
fine. 
You know, I there was, there was

1017
00:55:19,500 --> 00:55:22,800
a certain there was like a part 
of me in that kind of the orange

1018
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,100
peel rabbit. 
The rabbit hole Journey, where I

1019
00:55:25,100 --> 00:55:29,200
was like, you know, begging 
begging and pleading with others

1020
00:55:29,500 --> 00:55:32,500
to explain this to them, you 
know to like regardless of who 

1021
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:34,600
it was right. 
It like friends, family 

1022
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:39,900
investors that I respected for 
and and I reach a certain point 

1023
00:55:39,900 --> 00:55:43,000
where I'm so willing obviously 
to talk through the case, you 

1024
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,400
know, No help people understand 
my perspective or other people's

1025
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,500
views on this thing and why they
would buy it or hold it or do 

1026
00:55:49,500 --> 00:55:52,300
XYZ with it. 
But you know, if you don't care,

1027
00:55:52,300 --> 00:55:54,800
if you think Bitcoin is a scam 
at this point, like that's fine,

1028
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,800
right? 
Like big, yeah, exactly right. 

1029
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,100
Bitcoin is a scam. 
You're finally right this time. 

1030
00:56:00,100 --> 00:56:05,200
It's crashing 20. 
And at like, and and they say, 

1031
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,100
volatility is something that 
like, I'm completely fine. 

1032
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:12,000
I've signed up for this, I've 
allocated accordingly. 

1033
00:56:13,300 --> 00:56:15,000
You should too. 
And if you think that right, 

1034
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:21,000
allocation is zero, that's on 
you and and you know, I'm fine 

1035
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,200
with that. 
I had I can accept that and you 

1036
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:27,200
should accept the consequences 
of that because there's you know

1037
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,000
what that does is it does a tail
probability here? 

1038
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,400
And most bitcoiners think that 
it's the base case and not that 

1039
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:36,800
Tails Tails scenario at all 
we're this thing becomes you 

1040
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:42,600
know a global globally, dominant
Reserve asset in potential you 

1041
00:56:42,608 --> 00:56:44,900
know. 
Unit of account for, for 

1042
00:56:44,900 --> 00:56:47,800
Baseline, value around around 
the world. 

1043
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,100
There's a, there's a tail risk 
of that. 

1044
00:56:49,100 --> 00:56:51,400
If you, if you assign the 
probability zero, that's fine. 

1045
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:55,300
I don't think it's zero and I 
think it's, you know, probably 

1046
00:56:55,300 --> 00:56:58,900
higher than most would like to 
think and so, and, you know, 

1047
00:56:59,100 --> 00:57:02,100
accordingly, I want to own some 
right? 

1048
00:57:02,100 --> 00:57:05,200
Like and describing, this is 
like a hundred percent sure 

1049
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,400
thing, hyper bit quantization. 
You know, I think that's where 

1050
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,200
you lose some people, at least, 
like, at least to come in, 

1051
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:12,600
right? 
Not to come in, not trying to 

1052
00:57:12,608 --> 00:57:14,300
recruit you. 
I don't care if you buy Bitcoin 

1053
00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:17,200
or not but like if you want to 
understand the thing I think 

1054
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,900
pitching it is like a sure bed 
is going to you know be worth 

1055
00:57:20,900 --> 00:57:23,200
that hundred trillion dollars is
like probably the wrong 

1056
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,100
approach. 
It's like it's it's I think it's

1057
00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:30,500
you know, being somewhat bullish
but you know, reasonable 

1058
00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:34,000
objective moderate in the in the
pitch is little bit more 

1059
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,100
effective and that's maybe at 
the bear Market phenomenon. 

1060
00:57:36,100 --> 00:57:38,500
Maybe it's like, you know, we 
should be Schilling just 

1061
00:57:38,500 --> 00:57:42,500
Relentless and that's opium to 
get people to scoop keep SATs 

1062
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:45,400
but like I've taken with my 
Approach a little bit, I guess, 

1063
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,200
over the last few years in 
regards to like the response to 

1064
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,900
critics. 
Yeah, it did, it's definitely 

1065
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,600
very frustrating for sure. 
And I do want to go down that 

1066
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,600
opium route. 
I want to take advantage of the 

1067
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,700
last couple minutes on the 
podcast, and you were talking 

1068
00:57:59,700 --> 00:58:03,800
about this potentially being 
adopted on a worldwide level and

1069
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:08,600
there's this great piece from 
Kathy Woods Arc. 

1070
00:58:08,700 --> 00:58:12,900
And she's talking about the bear
case, the bear case, the base 

1071
00:58:12,900 --> 00:58:15,100
case. 
The bull case the bull case. 

1072
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:19,900
One point four eight million 
base case. 682,000 are case 200 

1073
00:58:19,900 --> 00:58:22,000
a 258,000. 
These numbers just don't come 

1074
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,800
from anywhere. 
She's making the case that 

1075
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,600
Bitcoin would take a percentage 
of digital money. 

1076
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,000
Institutional investment, 
seizure resistant assets, 

1077
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,600
economic settlement, Network 
Emerging Market currency nation,

1078
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,800
state, treasury remittance asset
corporate Treasury and of course

1079
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,600
the bear and the bull, the 
percentages vary. 

1080
00:58:41,700 --> 00:58:43,900
But what I find the most 
interesting is is the digital 

1081
00:58:43,900 --> 00:58:47,900
gold one and the bear case would
be twenty percent, which is 

1082
00:58:47,900 --> 00:58:51,900
pretty high percentage wise and 
the bull one would be 50%. 

1083
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,800
So I don't know if you had a 
chance to look at this dealing 

1084
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,900
but you know, you were 
mentioning about Bitcoin 

1085
00:58:57,900 --> 00:59:00,500
potentially being, you know, 
adopted on a worldwide level and

1086
00:59:00,500 --> 00:59:04,800
as you know, this is a good 
little graphic to pull up to, to

1087
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,100
speak about that. 
So, I don't know, man. 

1088
00:59:07,100 --> 00:59:09,900
What do you think of this? 
Is this pure hope IAM straight 

1089
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:13,100
into our veins. 
Yeah, I think. 

1090
00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:17,100
The thing that I've learned is 
that, you know, to a certain 

1091
00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:19,500
extent priced like price 
targets. 

1092
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,600
Fair value estimations Etc are 
great. 

1093
00:59:23,900 --> 00:59:28,200
You know happy to hear those and
you know potentially some 

1094
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,200
baseline scenarios but assigning
a price and a timeline is for 

1095
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,700
something that's volatile. 
You know this nascent to the 

1096
00:59:36,700 --> 00:59:39,500
upside and in a volatile upside 
and downside, right? 

1097
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:42,900
Like in 2015 who could have 
imagined in their right? 

1098
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,200
Mind that Bitcoin was going to 
touch 20,000. 

1099
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,100
It's just, it was just 
inconceivable and, you know, 

1100
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:50,300
subsequently, right? 
If you told someone in 20 

1101
00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:55,000
January of 2018 and I write it 
weird it from 20K to 15K, you're

1102
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,000
like, yeah, you know in 2023 
Bitcoins going to be twenty 

1103
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,000
thousand dollars if they blow it
wrong, right? 

1104
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,100
Like, and so that the, the wild 
swing of emotions is certainly 

1105
01:00:03,100 --> 01:00:08,800
it's like something but I'm 
sorry, I kind of I went off on a

1106
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,400
tangent and and forgot the 
purpose though. 

1107
01:00:11,500 --> 01:00:12,800
It's all good. 
It's all good. 

1108
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,100
You're here. 
Being cautious and I think 

1109
01:00:15,100 --> 01:00:18,700
you're totally taking it, right.
You're totally taking the right 

1110
01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:21,800
approach, you know? 
And you know you're saying 

1111
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,600
because I completely agree. 
I think that price targets into 

1112
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,200
the future, it's pure hope, IAM 
no one has anyone? 

1113
01:00:27,300 --> 01:00:29,600
No one has any idea what they're
talking about? 

1114
01:00:29,700 --> 01:00:33,300
I just think it's interesting, 
maybe not So Much from the price

1115
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:37,100
anticipation aspect like if we 
put that aside but more so from 

1116
01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:42,200
the percentage of the the 
penetration, the penetration 

1117
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,300
percentage rate, and I think 
that's what's really interesting

1118
01:00:45,300 --> 01:00:47,500
to me, right? 
Specifically when it comes to, 

1119
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:50,800
for example, nation state 
treasury, you know, zero one 

1120
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,600
percent and 5 percent of the 
numbers she laid out digital 

1121
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:59,200
gold, 20 40, 50 %, institutional
investment, 12.5 6.5%. 

1122
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,600
So I guess the question, I'm 
more responsible question for 

1123
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,000
you. 
Dylan would be are those numbers

1124
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,000
even conceivable. 
Did you imagine a future where 

1125
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:12,000
Bitcoin is a well-respected 
because it has to be two in 

1126
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,000
order to get to those numbers? 
He's a well-respected, 

1127
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,200
institutional investment. 
Do you see that? 

1128
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,600
Because right now, we live kind 
of in this in, you know, in this

1129
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:25,000
moment in time where, you know, 
Michael sailor named bouquet 

1130
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,100
lay, you know, they don't 
exactly look like they don't 

1131
01:01:29,100 --> 01:01:30,900
exactly. 
Look like their moves were 

1132
01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:33,200
intelligent. 
Of course, as bitcoiners were 

1133
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,300
bias and we know they're going 
to be Vindicated eventually as 

1134
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:39,700
number go up. 
Technology does his thing but I 

1135
01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:41,700
don't know man. 
What's your take on that? 

1136
01:01:44,100 --> 01:01:49,300
Yeah, I mean I think it's it's 
the it's just it's a global 

1137
01:01:49,300 --> 01:01:53,100
Capital flight sponge and 
capital flight not in a 

1138
01:01:53,300 --> 01:01:56,100
political dissident way but 
potentially in a political 

1139
01:01:56,100 --> 01:02:00,100
dissident way but in a in a 
systematic way it's like leave 

1140
01:02:00,100 --> 01:02:01,800
you think about all foreign 
exchange? 

1141
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:05,800
If you think about, you know, 
dollars against Japanese Yen. 

1142
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,200
It's a little 4X, a little 
different because like they both

1143
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,900
have moving exchange rates. 
So there's also kind of an 

1144
01:02:10,900 --> 01:02:13,200
exchange rate interest rate. 
Carry mechanism in those 

1145
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,300
relative things. 
But essentially, right? 

1146
01:02:15,300 --> 01:02:17,400
Like if you think about the 
dollar, if you think about when 

1147
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,600
you're talking about, you know, 
Global debt to GDP Dynamics, you

1148
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:22,600
know, why debt to GDP even 
matters? 

1149
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,700
And why do we see like these 
Global Wars break out at these 

1150
01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:29,600
high inflection points of global
debt to GDP? 

1151
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,800
And then war is coming, like 
somehow reset the table, and why

1152
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,700
does that stuff happen in 
monetary systems? 

1153
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:38,700
Why a - are resets happen at 
these Global inflection points 

1154
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,800
and it's because Dad systems are
two unsustainable. 

1155
01:02:42,300 --> 01:02:44,200
Right? 
It's just they reach a point 

1156
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,400
where they can't be service. 
So that something has to be done

1157
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:50,100
to revalue the real burdens and 
we're in the middle of the three

1158
01:02:50,100 --> 01:02:53,600
valuation with this kind of this
in dose of inflation, they 

1159
01:02:53,608 --> 01:02:57,200
mapped this out in 2014 15. 
That IMF came out. 

1160
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,200
They wrote a paper, they're 
like, how do we get this debt 

1161
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,000
levels down there? 
Like, oh, well, a steady dose of

1162
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,800
inflation and you're basically 
it's a wealth transfer from the 

1163
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,100
creditors who are the creditors 
people that buy the long-term 

1164
01:03:07,100 --> 01:03:09,400
debt, right? 
So this is the game that's being

1165
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:13,800
played and Bitcoin is just 
sponge as Just this exit opt-out

1166
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,100
vehicle, you know, whether it's 
like, you know, your DC a 

1167
01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:21,700
saying, on on Swan, or strike or
river or you're, you know, 

1168
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,100
you're in an emerging market and
you're literally just, you know,

1169
01:03:25,100 --> 01:03:29,300
selling freaking, you know, 
you're selling food on the side 

1170
01:03:29,300 --> 01:03:32,000
of the road to support your 
family and you're storing and 

1171
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:33,500
blue wallet in an open-source 
manner. 

1172
01:03:33,500 --> 01:03:36,500
Like this is all this is all 
happening and it's all at a 

1173
01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:39,900
relative game. 
So to bitcoin you know like a 

1174
01:03:39,900 --> 01:03:42,100
fourth of the funny thing is 
like a 40 percent compound. 

1175
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,100
Well, growth rate is like the 
bear case, right? 

1176
01:03:44,100 --> 01:03:48,300
Like / that in half, right? 
Like / /, the the, their bare 

1177
01:03:48,300 --> 01:03:54,500
case Arc by 75% and and have it 
be a 25 percent the size of that

1178
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:56,900
of that bear case prediction? 
What was the bear case like a 

1179
01:03:56,908 --> 01:03:59,400
couple under thousand? 
Like even if it was like a you 

1180
01:03:59,408 --> 01:04:02,600
know like oh your estimate 
Bitcoin at the worst worst case 

1181
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,200
and then you know lower that by 
a factor of four even though the

1182
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,500
worst case is still a good 10-15
percent kegger like oh Okay. 

1183
01:04:10,500 --> 01:04:14,300
So I just, you know, all I need 
to do is just like a little bit 

1184
01:04:14,300 --> 01:04:17,500
of it. 
Protect my, like, my tail risk 

1185
01:04:17,500 --> 01:04:20,900
here, which is like the system, 
I know, and I'm comfortable with

1186
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:23,200
and the world. 
I know from an economic 

1187
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:26,100
standpoint, even if you don't 
know economics, you know, I just

1188
01:04:26,100 --> 01:04:28,400
have a 401k or pension or 
something that I promised when 

1189
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,900
your son like you should own a 
little bit of Bitcoin in case of

1190
01:04:30,900 --> 01:04:33,700
that those entitlements. 
You think you have or if big fat

1191
01:04:33,700 --> 01:04:36,800
zero, but Niko I my Social 
Security's taken every every 

1192
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:38,800
week from from part of my 
income. 

1193
01:04:39,300 --> 01:04:44,000
And I just I just imagine the 
money just giving birth to see 

1194
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,300
any of it. 
I know I know that I'm an I'm at

1195
01:04:47,300 --> 01:04:50,900
you know I'm not necessarily 
peace with that but I understand

1196
01:04:50,900 --> 01:04:52,800
that's that's the reality of my 
situation. 

1197
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,000
It's stolen. 
It's burned is no I'm never 

1198
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,000
going to see it. 
You know it's supposed to be 

1199
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,400
going to the roads but it's 
really being funneled through 

1200
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,000
Ukraine in a money-laundering 
operation. 

1201
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:05,200
Like I'm at peace with that. 
I understand that I will say 

1202
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,800
that and maybe that makes me. 
You know this Rogue political 

1203
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,700
Political person. 
But like, you know, I don't 

1204
01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:15,200
think the radical View at all. 
So so my response to that is 

1205
01:05:15,208 --> 01:05:17,500
that all right? 
I'm going to own one of the only

1206
01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:19,900
things the world that I think I 
can actually own and I like I'm 

1207
01:05:19,900 --> 01:05:21,800
really comfortable as a 
mathematics person like I 

1208
01:05:21,808 --> 01:05:25,100
approach Bitcoin from a math and
finance lens. 

1209
01:05:25,100 --> 01:05:28,500
First and all the technological 
stuff I dug into and came to 

1210
01:05:28,500 --> 01:05:31,100
understand afterwards. 
But as a math person, like I'm 

1211
01:05:31,100 --> 01:05:35,000
very, very comfortable after, 
you know, reading some elliptic 

1212
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,800
curve cryptography and reading 
smart people's opinions on it. 

1213
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,900
And learning about encryption 
and learning about, you know, 

1214
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:43,800
the having in the difficult 
adjustment, all these things, 

1215
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,500
and how this thing works, and 
learning a little bit about 

1216
01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:49,400
software and what running a node
means and what mining means 

1217
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:51,500
being like. 
Okay, wait so this is probably 

1218
01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:54,600
the only place in the world 
where like I can you know, hold 

1219
01:05:55,300 --> 01:05:58,700
what I own and where it can't be
interrupted where I can't be 

1220
01:05:58,700 --> 01:06:02,200
corrupted, like that's there's 
really nothing else, I can 

1221
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,800
defend gold with my gun. 
Right? 

1222
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:06,100
Like, that's okay. 
That's good. 

1223
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:08,300
That's not good. 
If I wanted hop around the world

1224
01:06:08,300 --> 01:06:11,200
really easily, right? 
So, like Bitcoin, just like for 

1225
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,800
me, you know, I'm a privilege 
Western ego. 

1226
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,400
Like, I have a brokerage account
and I can short bonds, if I want

1227
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:24,500
to or long NASDAQ stock, but 
like, you know, it's like the 

1228
01:06:24,500 --> 01:06:28,700
person in Argentina, can't buy 
NASDAQ I can't get dollars, even

1229
01:06:28,700 --> 01:06:30,500
they get to get dollars, the 
real rate, like, what can they 

1230
01:06:30,500 --> 01:06:32,900
do? 
And there's, you know, I think 

1231
01:06:32,900 --> 01:06:34,500
there's like there's a 
singularity here with like 

1232
01:06:34,500 --> 01:06:37,300
Bitcoin as, you know, one of the
more important ideas of our 

1233
01:06:37,300 --> 01:06:41,300
time, the wild, the wild bullish
price targets are fun. 

1234
01:06:41,500 --> 01:06:44,500
And I've honestly been a 
proponent and champion of some 

1235
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:48,300
of those crazy ludicrous Targets
in the past and I still am but I

1236
01:06:48,300 --> 01:06:50,800
think that's the price. 
Despite being a you know an 

1237
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,100
analyst I post a lot about 
markets and financial stuff in 

1238
01:06:53,100 --> 01:06:55,100
price. 
I think that's like one of the 

1239
01:06:55,100 --> 01:06:58,600
probably lesser. 
Seeing things is like projecting

1240
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:00,200
out. 
Like how many socks do I own 

1241
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,400
more and like what will this 
price be in the future 10 

1242
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,600
million. 
Oh, I'm Gonna Be Rich, I'm gonna

1243
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,200
buy a jet ski in a villa, you 
know, versus like, okay. 

1244
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,800
Like this is the probably one of
the most important ideas, ideas 

1245
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,800
of our time, I should own some, 
I should be able to eloquently 

1246
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:17,000
described the bull case of it. 
I should be able to, regardless 

1247
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:21,000
of who's my listener. 
Because there's there's there's 

1248
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,500
always an angle where someone 
could probably understand it if 

1249
01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:26,500
they're if they're not 
completely like close-minded and

1250
01:07:26,500 --> 01:07:27,900
have. 
And of cognitive dissonance. 

1251
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,300
So I think that's the important 
thing. 

1252
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,600
I think, you know, the arc 
framework is interesting, they 

1253
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:37,100
certainly been battered. 
Arc is no longer, you know 

1254
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:39,200
there's some there's some really
smart mines there. 

1255
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:44,300
So I respect what they do and I 
think you you you said it. 

1256
01:07:44,300 --> 01:07:47,300
Perfectly Dylan. 
Came for the money stayed for 

1257
01:07:47,308 --> 01:07:50,100
the revolution. 
I think that's that's what we're

1258
01:07:50,100 --> 01:07:52,500
all. 
Living through nowadays anyways.

1259
01:07:52,700 --> 01:07:55,900
Dylan the Claire, it's been a 
pleasure honor like always, 

1260
01:07:55,900 --> 01:07:59,200
thank you so much. 
For for coming on simply Bitcoin

1261
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,300
IRL. 
And I mean there's an obvious 

1262
01:08:02,300 --> 01:08:04,400
question, but I do it with every
guest. 

1263
01:08:04,500 --> 01:08:05,700
What are you working on now 
days? 

1264
01:08:05,700 --> 01:08:07,100
And where can people find you 
online? 

1265
01:08:07,900 --> 01:08:11,400
Yeah, I am doing a few different
things. 

1266
01:08:11,700 --> 01:08:15,500
I'm with the climatic scene 
because yank reading the 

1267
01:08:15,500 --> 01:08:18,000
newsletter Bitcoin magazine Pro 
could find that if Accord 

1268
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,700
magazine Pro.com, we're putting 
putting together some stack 

1269
01:08:20,700 --> 01:08:22,800
releases covering more of the 
finance aspect of it. 

1270
01:08:24,300 --> 01:08:26,600
Also kind of doing my own thing 
with 21st paradigm. 

1271
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:30,600
Can find me at Dillon, the 
Claire dot info or to my Twitter

1272
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:32,800
at dealing with Claire 
underscore. 

1273
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:35,899
You know, I also have been 
trying to Noster. 

1274
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:39,500
I don't know if it's the best 
place to find me there, but it's

1275
01:08:39,500 --> 01:08:42,899
a pretty exciting that app and 
Twitter. 

1276
01:08:42,899 --> 01:08:45,300
You know, I am bullish on 
Twitter. 

1277
01:08:45,300 --> 01:08:48,399
I like Twitter, love Twitter, 
spent way too much time on there

1278
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:51,899
for the past few years, but a 
little bit pessimistic about it.

1279
01:08:51,899 --> 01:08:53,399
Staying power. 
So we'll see how it goes. 

1280
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:55,899
But I mean like I really 
appreciate you guys having me on

1281
01:08:56,700 --> 01:08:59,100
It's been fun to rip and hope 
the listeners. 

1282
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:01,800
Enjoyed, enjoyed it a bit. 
Thanks Dylan. 

1283
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,000
Appreciate you coming on guys, 
that was another episode of 

1284
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,600
Simply Bitcoin IRL. 
If you enjoyed it, make sure to 

1285
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,200
smash that like button and we 
will see you tomorrow back for 

1286
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:12,899
the live show, but if you want 
more Bitcoin content and head 

1287
01:09:12,899 --> 01:09:16,300
over to the swan Bitcoin 
Channel, they just dropped a new

1288
01:09:16,300 --> 01:09:18,500
podcast for dr. 
Jeff Ross and James lavish so 

1289
01:09:18,508 --> 01:09:21,100
definitely check that out. 
Love you all and see you 

1290
01:09:21,100 --> 01:09:21,500
tomorrow.