1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,080 I won't be surprised if it goes anywhere between 200 and a 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:04,880 million. It could even pop over a million 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,880 for a little bit. But I, but I think 475 K for me 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,480 is kind of the most likely target. 5 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,680 I also have Q4 of 2025 as my target. 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,960 It could extend beyond that based on what I'm seeing, but 7 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,200 I'm kind of just sticking with, these are the predictions I've 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,520 made for the last two years and I'm, I'm sticking with that 475K 9 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,480 in Q4 of 2025. And then the other point, what I 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,760 wanted to say is these people that are calling for, we've 11 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,920 already hit our peak and that we're going to roll over. 12 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,440 There are a lot of people and for whatever reason, they're, 13 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,920 they're Gen. X economists and traders. 14 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,280 And I'm Gen. XI can say this, I'm right in 15 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,040 the middle of Gen. X. 16 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,800 They are freaking people out saying we are at this historical 17 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:50,480 peak like 1929 or 1999 and we are at the cusp of a massive, 18 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:53,200 massive recession and we're going to have a deflationary 19 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,360 bust and stocks and Bitcoin are going to absolutely crash and 20 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,200 get demolished. And so is oil like literally 21 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,120 worse than 1929. There are multiple people 22 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,200 talking about this. I think they're wrong. 23 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,320 I, I, I look at that, you know, I study macro. 24 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:08,960 I run a macro hedge fund. It's a multi strategy macro 25 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:11,080 fund. I couldn't disagree more. 26 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:12,600 We're all looking at the same data. 27 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,400 I think that we are just at the early stages of a new economic 28 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:22,160 cycle. Doctor Ross, hello. 29 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,280 How you been? I don't think, I don't think 30 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,760 you've been on the show for a couple of months now. 31 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,120 A couple of months in Bitcoin terms is like years. 32 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,440 So welcome back, you know, and and and that we were talking 33 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:36,800 about this before we went on air. 34 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,200 I do miss you on I do miss you on Twitter. 35 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,440 You know, I I do, I do you. You had some amazing takes and 36 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,240 you've gone Noster only these days. 37 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:46,680 You're kind, Nico. Thanks for having me on your 38 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,000 show. I have missed you and your show 39 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,880 and I do miss you on Twitter. I, I, I'll just reiterate what 40 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,960 we're talking about earlier is I knew my Twitter account, I think 41 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,880 in September and it's been awesome in general. 42 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,120 My stress level immediately went way down. 43 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,800 But I do miss the interaction with my friends on Twitter. 44 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,960 So that's, that's been tough And I I was hoping there'd be more 45 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,680 of a wave of people coming over to nostril only, but it's been 46 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,520 fun. It's been fun to watch it grow. 47 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,320 I will say that the experience now on Noster using different 48 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,920 clients, I, I use a primal now is way better than it was a year 49 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:26,160 ago and even way better than it was six months ago. 50 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:29,280 So, so it's been great. But yes, I do Missy, thanks for 51 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,960 having me back on your show. I've been pretty reclusive and 52 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,680 that's been on purpose for the last probably 6 to 12 months or 53 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,880 so. I don't get out much and but but 54 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,760 I said if I'm if I come out of hiding, I'm gonna come on your 55 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,160 show because I really appreciate you and all the work you do for 56 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,440 Bitcoin. I appreciate it, Doctor Ross, 57 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,840 and again, it's it's an honor to have you back. 58 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,520 Now, one of the things that I did 'cause I, I do hang out on, 59 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,680 I do hang out on nosters, especially since we went through 60 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,680 kind of like a deplatforming scare. 61 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,880 And that's really when it all snapped in my mind. 62 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:04,120 I was like, OK, you know, it's probably a good idea to even if 63 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,920 the volume isn't there, like, you know, really help support 64 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:10,520 this, this protocol. And, and I, and I'm a huge fan 65 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,640 of Primal. We actually had the CEO on 66 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:17,920 today's show earlier on today and we were talking about the 67 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,720 two point O update, which I think is really, really cool. 68 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,520 So anyways, I, I did see one of the posts that you posted and I 69 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,520 do want to talk about that because I think in Bitcoin 70 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,880 terms, we, we all experienced, you know, and you were around 71 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,120 during this time, Doctor Ross, like the 2021 bull market. 72 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,240 And I think a lot of people had their, they didn't meet the bull 73 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,840 market, didn't meet expectations. 74 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,840 And I, when I'm seeing this bull market is people still have a 75 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:53,520 lot of PTSD from that time, but I'm seeing the price at 106,000. 76 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,160 And historically the year after the halving is the year of the 77 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,720 parabola, less than 100%. We're at 200 K. 78 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,040 And it seems like you're one of the only people that is feeling 79 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,560 as bullish as I am because recently, I don't know where you 80 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,280 said this, but I saw that you were talking about a $475,000 81 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,720 Bitcoin in 2025. So could you walk us through a 82 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,640 little bit of your thought process on this? 83 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:21,880 Sure. So let let me back up. 84 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,840 I'll, I'll try to hit on the points you're talking about. 85 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,320 So 2021, I still maintain was a fluke. 86 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,160 I think it was an anomaly. I think that we were going to 87 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,720 have a major exponential move higher like like it does, like 88 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,880 Bitcoin traditionally has done. And then out of left field, a 89 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,600 Black Swan event. China banned Bitcoin mining and 90 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,040 said you have leave our country and it and it was like legit. 91 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,160 It wasn't like, oh, we're thinking about, you know, 92 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:48,560 banning it like we have in the past. 93 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,080 And it was legit. And so 50% of the hash rate 94 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,800 disappeared in about a month. And I know you were there and I 95 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,520 was there and it was crazy. And it literally just took all 96 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,920 the air out of the room. I wiped it out. 97 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,480 It was rough. On top of that liquidity, which 98 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,080 is another thing I follow, the liquidity cycle was already 99 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,920 starting to peak at that time. So, OK, so those two things 100 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,120 happened. As we remember, Bitcoin went way 101 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,000 down in the summer of 2021. And then it tried to make this, 102 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,000 you know, really, you know, admirable comeback again. 103 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,800 And it did get back up to new highs, whatever, 69 K somewhere 104 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,920 around there. But I maintain that that was an 105 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,800 anomaly. I maintain that if that wouldn't 106 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,120 have happened, if China wouldn't have done what it did, probably 107 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,280 also if SPF and all those frauds wouldn't have happened as well 108 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:36,560 that were fooling people into thinking they were actually 109 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,600 buying Bitcoin. But they got, they got smoked 110 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,200 and they were not. If that hadn't happened, I think 111 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,520 the price of Bitcoin would have been about 125 K back in 2021. 112 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,280 So then we went through that bear market. 113 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:50,840 The bear market was exceedingly painful and it got, and it was 114 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:54,120 just horrible at the end, right when all those centralized 115 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,160 exchanges went bust and and all the Bitcoin just went on to the 116 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,920 market, smashed the prices, everything went down. 117 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,800 So that was tough. That was all, I think a very 118 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,080 unusual a couple of years for Bitcoin. 119 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,280 I think now we're back on a more normal schedule. 120 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:11,560 I think that Bitcoin is going to surprise many people this time 121 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,040 around. I hear, you know, first of all, 122 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,080 there's this, you know, the power laws floating around 123 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,800 there. I'm actually a fan in general of 124 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,800 the power law, but the dude who prescribes it and talks about it 125 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,840 all the time, Giovanni, who I I think is great. 126 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:26,040 You know, we, we have personality differences, but I 127 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,520 think he's a nice guy and it's fine. 128 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,680 He really is pushing the theory that we have diminishing peaks 129 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:33,440 going forward. And there are other people that 130 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,280 talk about that as well. And I think a lot of people are 131 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:39,400 getting fooled by that. I, I see people on Twitter at, 132 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,920 you know, even over on Oster, we get little Twitter screenshots 133 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,120 of people talking about how the peak is already in don't buy it 134 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,360 at 100K. That's it. 135 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,240 We're done with this cycle. I could not disagree more. 136 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,680 I think those people are crazy. I think they don't know what 137 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,600 they're talking about. Not by the way, not Giovanni. 138 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,120 I'm saying the people who are calling for this 100K peak right 139 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,480 about now and that we're heading into a recession. 140 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,200 So there's a couple different schools of thoughts. 141 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,320 We'll talk about both of them. I'll talk about the recession 142 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,920 second. So first, do we have diminishing 143 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,360 peaks? It was a diminishing peak in 144 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,080 2021, but I maintain that that was a fluke. 145 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,040 So I'm so I think that people who think that we're going to 146 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,880 have this lower peak of, I think they're saying kind of 200 K, 147 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,520 maybe 150 to 250 K somewhere in there. 148 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,440 My guess is they're going to sell at 200 to 250 K and they're 149 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,160 going to think they're right for maybe a month and then it's 150 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,320 going to just take off again and go higher. 151 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,520 So my, my, I'm saying it could be 475. 152 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,280 Look, I don't know, right? I have no insight into what it's 153 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,040 going to be. I just think that that's kind of 154 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:42,280 about where it would be if 20/21 had been in a kind of a straight 155 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,840 line for its peak compared to 2017 and compared to 2013. 156 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,560 My range is actually very similar to Jack Mahler's. 157 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:50,560 I heard him talking the other day. 158 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,440 He has exactly the same range as I do, which is 200,000 to 159 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,400 1,000,000. People think you can't have 160 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,440 these kind of ranges, but I'm like, this is Bitcoin, right? 161 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,120 Bitcoin is crazy. It's super volatile. 162 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,840 I could, I won't be surprised if it goes anywhere between 200 and 163 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,680 a million. It could even pop over a million 164 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,120 for a little bit, but I, but I think 475 K for me is kind of 165 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:13,040 the most likely target. I also have Q4 of 2025 as my 166 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,120 target. It could extend beyond that 167 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:17,640 based on what I'm saying, but I'm kind of just sticking with, 168 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,120 these are the predictions I've made for the last two years and 169 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:25,760 I'm, I'm sticking with that 475 K in Q4 of 2025. 170 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,520 And then the other point, what I want to say is these people that 171 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,040 are calling for, we've already hit our peak and that we're 172 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,200 going to roll over. There are a lot of people and 173 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,840 for whatever reason, they're usually they're Gen. 174 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,039 X economists and traders and I'm Gen. 175 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:39,000 X. So I can say this, I'm right in 176 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:39,720 the middle of Gen. X. 177 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,640 They are freaking people out saying we are at this historical 178 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:50,320 peak like 1929 or 1999 and we are at the cusp of a massive, 179 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,040 massive recession and we're going to have a deflationary 180 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,160 bust and stocks and Bitcoin are going to absolutely crash and 181 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,000 get demolished. And so is oil like literally 182 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,960 worse than 1929. There are multiple people 183 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,000 talking about this. I think they're wrong. 184 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,160 I, I, I look at that, you know, I study macro. 185 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,760 I run a macro hedge fund. It's a multi strategy macro 186 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,880 fund. I couldn't disagree more. 187 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,440 We're all looking at the same data. 188 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,240 I think that we are just at the early stages of a new economic 189 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,840 cycle. It's actually grinding and we 190 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:20,800 can get into all this if we want to or we don't have to talk 191 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,960 about any of this. But I think we're early stages 192 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,360 and that the economy is going to be actually quite good 193 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,880 throughout 2025. It's leaving me very optimistic. 194 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,840 So come in full circle to what you're talking about. 195 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,000 I am optimistic like you are. I think that 2025 is going to be 196 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,120 a good year for the, as far as the price is concerned. 197 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,640 I just like to remind people even when we're in a bull market 198 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,160 and I officially declared that I switched from bull crab to to to 199 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,800 full bull. I said around Michael Jackson's 200 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,560 birthday. So the end of August of 2024, 201 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,000 that's when I switched over and, and I, and I haven't looked back 202 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,240 since then. I think the price was like 203 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,960 53,000 or something back at the time. 204 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,120 During bull markets, it's super normal to have 20 to 30% pull 205 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,840 backs. That's just part of the game. 206 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,640 So if we do have these big run run up run UPS, what I like to 207 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,360 tell people is just imagine if the price was 30% lower a week 208 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,920 from today, how would you feel? You know, so, so keep those kind 209 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,640 of things in mind. If we go up to say whatever 210 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,200 120,000 here in the next couple of weeks, which is kind of my 211 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,280 short term target for the end of December, I wouldn't be 212 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,160 surprised if we dropped down to like maybe 85 or 80,000 or even 213 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,520 75,000 or so and then we kind of start taking off again. 214 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,680 So just kind of prepare yourself mentally for those pull backs. 215 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:38,920 It doesn't mean it's over. It doesn't mean the naysayers 216 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,520 are right. The recession uses weren't 217 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,680 correct. It's just a normal, typical bull 218 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:45,880 market pull back. Absolutely. 219 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,760 And and you know, as long as you've, you've been in Bitcoin, 220 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,120 it's, there's something about the human brain and human nature 221 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,960 that's like, you know, it's very difficult. 222 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,640 It's like when number goes up, you want a FOMO. 223 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,880 When number goes down, you know, you're like, Oh my God, you 224 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,880 know, and then eventually kind of reaches that capitulation 225 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,040 phase. Now, what's really interesting 226 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,280 to me, Doctor Ross, is what you were just talking about. 227 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,200 You're the only person that agrees with the China mining ban 228 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,280 because I've been saying that for like a couple of years and 229 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,480 I've been getting so, but like you see the hash rate and the 230 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,240 price and it's a direct correlation. 231 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,880 Like you see the hash rate dropping, the price follows 50%. 232 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,040 Those miners had to sell. Then the miners have a lot of 233 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,640 the Bitcoin they had to sell to relocate to a more favorable 234 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,800 jurisdiction. You see the hash rate recover, 235 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,480 price recovers with it, right? And then they had that like the 236 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,160 glorious, you know, like trying to make it up, but it, it, it 237 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,480 seems like it was almost on purpose to take the steam out of 238 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,680 it. And in regard to the the next 239 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:53,920 cycle, what why I believe you're right and I agree with you is 240 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,920 that Bitcoin tends to do the exact opposite of what everyone 241 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,440 expects. And the general consensus this 242 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,240 cycle is 150K200K. That is what I'm seeing 243 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,440 everywhere. The power line again, Giovanni's 244 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,040 a great guy, you know, Fred Krueger, great. 245 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,000 I love their work, right. But that is the general 246 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,160 consensus on Bitcoin Twitter right now. 247 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:20,800 And as you said, Bitcoin does the exact opposite of what 248 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,480 everyone expects, right? So yes, I, I, I'm, I would be 249 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:32,040 extremely surprised if we only did 100% because 100% takes us 250 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,520 at 200 to 200 K next year. So I'd be extremely surprised. 251 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,200 And then, and if you're right about the 120 by the end of the 252 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,200 year, and I'm, I'm feeling that way as well, you know, it's less 253 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:47,160 than 100% just to get to 200 K. So and, and that's, and if you 254 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,760 look at Bitcoin's historical patterns, it, it, there's, it's 255 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,800 never broken this, but for some reason people always think it's 256 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,480 sometime is different, which is the year after the halving year 257 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:01,600 is the parabola year. And at this time, it's like, no, 258 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,240 that can't happen. And the reason that I think that 259 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,320 is, is because of everyone has PTSD from 2021. 260 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,920 And if people forgot what a, what a real party was in 2017, 261 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,800 it's been 7 years, almost eight years since we've had that level 262 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,680 of excitement, that level of euphoria. 263 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,840 So yeah, I, I completely agree with you. 264 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,200 And it's interesting because that's not the general 265 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,440 consensus. A lot of people are are saying 266 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,360 that's the opposite. Now you said something there was 267 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,720 really interesting and I and I want to dive deep into that, 268 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,280 which is the general kind of macro trends that you're seeing 269 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,360 and you're seeing that they're very favorable heading into 270 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,560 2025. That's something else. 271 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,600 This is the first time I'm hearing that type of stuff. 272 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,120 So what are you seeing that everyone else isn't seeing? 273 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,040 What? What or what are you seeing that 274 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,640 interests you? Man, I just look at so much data 275 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,720 and all of the data I look at is great. 276 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,720 So that. So first of all, one thing is 277 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,640 not good. US manufacturing has been in the 278 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,560 dumps. It's been in contraction or 279 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:11,600 recession mode, meaning a level below 50 on the ISM, it's these 280 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,760 scales that we use. If it's above 50, it's 281 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,600 considered it. It, it's increasing, it's 282 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,520 advancing. If it's below 50, it's in a 283 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,200 contraction or it's in a recession. 284 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:26,160 So US manufacturing has been stuck in this weak sauce zone 285 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,760 for about two to 2 1/2 years, and it's rough. 286 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,320 So if you're, you're in the, you know, manufacturing industry in 287 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,600 America, things have been tough. I, I grant that to everybody. 288 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,840 So, but why does it not matter that much? 289 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,120 Because the services sector is such a huge part of the American 290 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,840 GDP. So the economy in America is run 291 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,000 on the services sector, not manufacturing. 292 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,000 It's like a 2 to one ratio, even a little bit more than a 2 to 293 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,760 one ratio. So, you know, not that I, I, I 294 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,680 feel bad for people who are in these sectors, but it doesn't 295 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,760 drive the economy. What drives the economy is 296 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,840 services. Services is killing it with the 297 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,920 numbers just came out again this morning and I don't have them on 298 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,600 me, but I think it was 58 or 59 or so. 299 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,720 So expansion, they're just expanding like crazy, doing very 300 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,000 well. And overall the Composite Index 301 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,600 is getting pulled up very solidly because of services. 302 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,640 So manufacturing is weak, but it's only manufacturing housing, 303 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,680 which everybody talks about that, you know, and I was one of 304 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,560 them in 2022. I thought the housing market was 305 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,080 going to collapse because of what was happening with rates 306 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,320 and all and the economy slowing down and all this kind of stuff. 307 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,760 I thought in 2022 that we were headed into a recession. 308 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,960 And I do believe that it's fiscal spending that that saved 309 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,840 us from going into a major recession at the time. 310 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,040 Housing people continue to say looks like looks ugly, it is 311 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,360 weak, but it's starting to improve. 312 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:49,960 OK. So that's one that's a major 313 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,480 driver of the of the economy. You can look at new orders which 314 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,880 are forward-looking indicators. So if you talk to people who own 315 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,800 businesses are orders in the future for the coming three to 316 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,160 six months, are they looking up or are they down or are they 317 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,920 about flat? Almost all of those indices are 318 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,080 kind of off the charts going up. So that what does that mean? 319 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,240 That means that looking into the future forward leading forward 320 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,520 indicators, businesses should start to improve. 321 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,400 I think we'll see manufacturing, especially with the new Trump 322 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,520 administration coming in who's very pro manufacturing, very pro 323 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,760 bring it back to the United States where that which I think 324 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,680 is awesome. I think three to six months from 325 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,400 now, US manufacturing will be doing extremely well. 326 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,680 And we'll we'll be, you know, looking back and like, oh, what 327 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:33,800 a relief. Can you believe we thought we 328 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,680 were going into recession? Now look at how strong the 329 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,840 economy it looks today, profits people are talking about. 330 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,800 So, so I follow a lot of value investors. 331 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,160 I used to kind of live in the value investing community. 332 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,280 They're talking about these very stretched multiples. 333 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,280 So the price to earnings ratios, price to sales ratios are kind 334 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,680 of getting very high. And they'll show charts about 335 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,200 how it looks like 1929 looks like 1999, those kind of things. 336 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,440 They're right. But what they're missing once 337 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,160 again is that if you have a growing economy, what happens is 338 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,079 then those earnings start to increase, the denominator starts 339 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:08,319 to increase, and it shrinks those values. 340 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,160 So the companies grow into those expanded valuations. 341 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,880 So when I look at all of those things and then multiple other 342 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,280 factors, all I see is we have liquidity that's starting to 343 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,240 increase again. Global M2, which had been on the 344 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,480 decline throughout all of 2022, basically bottomed in Q4 of 345 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,840 2022. It's been going higher. 346 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,720 A lot of people come come back at me and say, but in the last 347 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,400 couple of months it it's been going down. 348 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,040 What what's happening? Is it over? 349 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,520 Have we peaked? It's only because the dollar has 350 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,360 been so strong. So we've had a huge burst higher 351 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,520 in the dollar basically since I think the end of October or or 352 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,040 so until now, maybe even the beginning of October. 353 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,520 Somewhere in that time frame. This exact same thing happened 354 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,320 the last time Trump was elected. It, it, it's creates this 355 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,160 strength and this optimism and, and the dollar ripped higher to 356 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,320 the end of December, early January, peaked and then rolled 357 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,120 over and basically fell all throughout 2017. 358 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,200 I expect pretty much the exact same thing to happen where the 359 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,600 dollar quits being the dollar Wrecking Ball, it rolls over, it 360 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,240 kind of decreases throughout the rest of 2017. 361 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,880 Why is that important? Because the dollar really 362 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,080 effects all other countries. So all other countries who have 363 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,880 priced their debt or their goods and services in dollar terms, it 364 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,200 hurts them when the dollar is strong, when the dollar weakens, 365 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,320 their own currency strengthens. It makes it easier for them to 366 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,400 pay back debt. It makes it easier on their 367 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,560 economy. They can sell more goods. 368 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,480 It's easier for for them to run their economies and and it's 369 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,720 basically just net good for the world when the dollar is 370 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,160 weakening, when banks, when economies are doing well, banks 371 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,160 start lending. When they lend, they're creating 372 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,720 new monetary supply that increases global M2. 373 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,800 And that as the global M2 starts to increase, it finds its way 374 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,840 into more further out on the risk curve into stocks and 375 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,120 especially into Bitcoin, which is the great absorber of 376 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:02,640 liquidity. So lots of reasons there. 377 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,200 But everything I look at, and I'm not even trying to be snarky 378 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,680 about this, I see people talking about, I like, I can't believe 379 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,880 we're looking at the same in data and you have a negative 380 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,800 picture with what's going on. Most of them are valuations 381 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,640 based or technicals based, or they're more focused on what's 382 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,880 happening outside of the US because they're true. 383 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,080 It's true that the EU looks really rough right now. 384 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:27,040 It's very stagflationary and China looks very stagflationary 385 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,880 right now, meaning a stagnant economy but higher inflation. 386 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,560 the US, however, is not in that picture. 387 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,560 And as the global growth engine, which the United States is, and 388 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,240 I expect it to be even more powerfully with this in next 389 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,480 administration, we are going to lead the world out of this 390 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,120 stagflationary condition and into growth again. 391 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,560 And that's very bullish for risk assets and especially for 392 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,480 Bitcoin. And that, that, that is 393 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,360 extremely exciting, Doctor Ross. And you know what I'll say about 394 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:59,520 that? Is it it, you know, I might not 395 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,960 be able to, to describe it the way that, that you're seeing it 396 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,760 because you, you, you have this experience with your background 397 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,240 and you're, you're seeing all, you know, all this data points. 398 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,840 But I see the vibes, I feel the vibes. 399 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,320 I see the hope in people. Yo, I want to tell you about the 400 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,280 best place to build your automatic self custody Bitcoin 401 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,680 stack. I'm talking about 402 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,720 bitcoinwell.com. What makes bitcoinwell.com 403 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,880 different is that it's a completely non custodial 404 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,240 platform, meaning as soon as you buy Bitcoin and the funds clear, 405 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,640 it goes straight to yourself. Custody Bitcoin wallet address 406 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,520 and that perfectly aligns with simply Bitcoin ethos of the 407 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,400 separation of money and state support Bitcoin on ramps that 408 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,680 are self custody by default. To get started, go to 409 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,800 bitcoinwell.com today. Takes 2 to 5 minutes to sign up 410 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,280 and bada Bing, bada boom, you're ready to buy Bitcoin. 411 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,360 And it's extremely exciting. And, and especially because of 412 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,000 this, this change in, in tuning and Doctor Ross, I don't think 413 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,080 we've spoken since this has happened, but you know, the 414 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,040 tremendous amount of institutional, not only 415 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,200 institutional adoption, but institutional acceptance of 416 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,640 Bitcoin. And you're hearing left and 417 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:21,080 right of, of traditionally very conservative companies that 418 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,960 perhaps they don't have exposure to direct spot Bitcoin, but you 419 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,760 hear that they have exposure to Bitcoin via the ETFs or via 420 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,000 MicroStrategy, which is essentially like a Bitcoin fund 421 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,360 at this point, the way that the stock is behaving. 422 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,280 So, you know, it's a would it be safe to say that this is a new 423 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,560 chapter in Bitcoins history? And what's really exciting too 424 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,120 is all of this is happening and we're heading into 2025 where 425 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,920 you're making the case that the macro environment looks very 426 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,760 positive. The regulatory environment 427 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,760 specifically for Bitcoin looks very positive. 428 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,960 And then again, you know, the, this is a change, this is a, 429 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:07,800 this is a change, not only institutional option, but the 430 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,680 nation state adoption as well. And what I've noticed, you know, 431 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,160 the last three or four months, it's absolutely hilarious. 432 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,520 You have, you know, the president of Russia, Putin 433 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,080 basically saying we can't ban it. 434 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,800 Then a a day later news comes out that the, the Duma, which is 435 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,640 the equivalent of the House of Representatives here in the 436 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,000 United States, they're introducing a bill to make a 437 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,640 Bitcoin strategic reserve. Brazil, a politician is 438 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,920 introducing a bill to make Bitcoin strategic reserve. 439 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,760 There's this this video going viral about this French 440 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,800 politician making this speech at the European Parliament 441 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,240 basically saying like, look, we have to take a look at this 442 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,960 Bitcoin thing. We made fun of El Salvador, the 443 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,160 IMF made fun of El Salvador, but this guy's like showing off on 444 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,960 Twitter and he made hundreds of millions of dollars off this 445 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,800 trade Like what what's going on here? 446 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,040 So it's a vibe shift. The macro situation is, is is 447 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,520 amazing, but I want to get your take on the and and this is this 448 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,560 is, this is up your alley, Doctor Ross, right. 449 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,640 The Could you ever have imagined back in 2017 the change in tune 450 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,160 from the legacy financial institutions? 451 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,520 I hate to be this guy, but yes, we've been talking, well, 452 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,480 because we've been talking about this. 453 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,640 This is inevitable. Like, right, We knew this was 454 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,040 going to happen. What I will say is surprising is 455 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,240 how quickly it's happened and how quickly, to your point, all 456 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,800 of these things have suddenly shifted. 457 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,800 And it seems like suddenly like it went from super dark and 458 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,440 negative and like Elizabeth Warren is treating us all like 459 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,720 we're criminals and we're all getting shadow banked and shadow 460 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,560 banned, You know, Operation Choke, .2 Point, all that kind 461 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,600 of stuff. And then suddenly like it's just 462 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,000 gone. And like to your point, there's 463 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,400 all these favorable conditions now for the first time. 464 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,440 So it's always been inevitable, right? 465 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,000 I've I used to go on Cafe Bitcoin and all these things all 466 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,560 the time and talk about how Wall Street is coming like that's 467 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,400 just a natural progression of Bitcoin. 468 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,280 And what we need to do as Bitcoiners is protect the soul 469 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,280 of Bitcoin. We need to make sure it doesn't 470 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,880 get consumed by Wall Street and taken over by Wall Street and 471 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,160 Wall Street will try and people are fighting against it right. 472 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,520 And we got to make sure that we don't get so enamored with 473 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,840 number go up that we that we've lose what's important with 474 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,240 Bitcoin. We got to still keep this. 475 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,280 So we got to remember that this is actually an alternative to 476 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,240 the US dollar and the Fiat government Fiat currency system, 477 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,800 right? And so keep building out these 478 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,680 other things, keep building out layer 2 and layer 3 so we can 479 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,920 use it as a totally alternative financial system and actually 480 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,920 get away. I'm of the theory, and this is 481 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,160 another quote that people think I'm crazy when I say this 482 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,520 Bitcoin is too powerful for Wall Street and it, and I actually 483 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,640 believe that it will consume Wall Street from the inside out. 484 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,240 And people think that's crazy. I'm saying within 10 to 20 485 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,960 years, it's going to outgrow Wall Street and basically bust 486 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,560 out of, of, of Wall Street and Wall Street will eventually bend 487 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,320 the knee to Bitcoin. And it's almost hard to believe 488 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,360 right now. It's kind of like I said two or 489 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,640 three years ago that I think MicroStrategy is going to be the 490 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,280 largest company by market cap by the year 2033 or 2034. 491 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,680 I still think that's very possible. 492 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,280 And people just laughed at me and mocked. 493 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,000 I'm like, just wait, like you don't understand like how crazy 494 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,800 this is. And if you can do speculative 495 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,960 arbitrage by borrowing dollars and buying Bitcoin with that and 496 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,560 just growing and growing and growing and then plus have being 497 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,040 riding the tails of the exponential growth of the 498 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,360 Bitcoin monetary network, the the upside is almost limitless, 499 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:32,720 especially when you compare it to limit limitless Fiat currency 500 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,280 creation. So I think it's all inevitable. 501 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,480 I think it's coming. I think that every company that 502 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,280 doesn't have Bitcoin on its balance sheet or a Bitcoin 503 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:45,560 reserve strategy will go to zero over time relative to Bitcoin. 504 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,640 So it's like if you want to survive in the next 10 to 20 505 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,480 years, you have to switch over. To me, it's very basic and, and 506 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,840 again, nobody understands that so many people on on in old Wall 507 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,520 Street, they think of Bitcoin as a technology stock instead of 508 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,640 what it really is, which is just better money. 509 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,360 Excuse me? So why is that important? 510 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:13,600 It's because if you don't get onto this system, the rest of 511 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,360 your business trends to 0 over time against Bitcoin. 512 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:21,040 They businesses cannot keep up with the annualized rate of 513 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,880 return of Bitcoin. They, they can't exist on this 514 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,280 Fiat system that's collapsing all around us. 515 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,200 They have to get on board. And so the longer they delay 516 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,280 that situation and whether you're an individual or a family 517 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,920 or a pension or an endowment or a church or a small business or 518 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,120 a large business or a nation state, it's the same for 519 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,600 everyone. And the sooner, and I know you 520 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,000 talk about this all the time on your show, but it's the game 521 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,920 theory at play. The longer it takes you to get 522 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,240 on board, the further behind you're going to be in this new 523 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,480 world. And why is this like why is 524 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,440 that? It's because Bitcoin isn't just 525 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,960 this like cool little thing like this, this neat little tech 526 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,680 stock. It's literally a new monetary 527 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,320 technology that's a change the world technology on par with, 528 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,440 we've talked about this, the wheel, fire, electricity, indoor 529 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,440 plumbing, railroads, the automobile, airplanes, personal 530 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,560 computers, the Internet, right? This is the Internet of value. 531 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,520 And so it's not like it's this cool little side asset. 532 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,640 It's literally this new invention. 533 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,880 It's kind of like if it was the year 1950 and you were a 534 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,280 business and you're still trying to run your business without 535 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,200 electricity. Like you, you have to comply to 536 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,640 the way the world is shifting and changing or, or if you're in 537 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,800 the year 2024 and you don't have an Internet strategy for your 538 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,720 business, it's just ludicrous to think about. 539 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,240 But I'm old enough to remember there were businesses that were 540 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,000 actively fighting and mocking the Internet back in the 90s and 541 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,480 the early 2000s. I used to, again, as a value 542 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,000 investor, people used to just literally mock Netflix. 543 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,520 They would and talk about how awesome Blockbuster is. 544 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,080 They would literally mock Amazon and, and talk about how awesome 545 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,760 Walmart is and how Amazon will never even come close to being 546 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,960 the same size as as Walmart. And now look at, you know, 547 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,040 Amazon has multitudes, yeah, multiples larger than than 548 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,720 Walmart. So just like you had to get that 549 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,560 sort of Internet strategy, you now have to have a Bitcoin 550 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,560 strategy, a new monetary Technology Strategy or you will 551 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,440 become obsolete. It's just what it is. 552 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,560 And I think that's inevitable. And so even though people think 553 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,720 I'm crazy, 510 years from now, we'll be talking about that and 554 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,480 they'll ask me long, did you ever see it coming? 555 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,120 I'm like, yes, it's it's it's going to come. 556 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,920 It has to come because it's clearly better money. 557 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,360 It's a better monetary network for the world. 558 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,640 And if you're not on board with it, you're going to become 559 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,200 obsolete. 100% and I mean it, it, it's what's fascinating to 560 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:53,560 me about this year is how Sailor is proving that on Wall Street, 561 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,440 you know, best performing stock of the year up, I think almost 562 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,240 500 percent or a little bit shy of that. 563 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,520 And 9 Bukela is proving that on the nation state level. 564 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,960 Now, Doctor Ross, what I want to ask you about, which is the the 565 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,920 Sailor strategy is fascinating. Like how is he able to do this? 566 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,200 You know, like I have the conceptual understanding of like 567 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,080 the mechanisms behind it, But you know, it's almost as if he's 568 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,720 using the prior system, He's taking advantage of the prior 569 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,560 system, which I don't think was prepared for something like 570 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,960 Bitcoin to buy more Bitcoin. It's, you know, and people call 571 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,000 it a speculative attack on the dollar. 572 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,400 Could you like describe what the mechanisms is behind it? 573 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,760 And is is he putting MicroStrategy at risk by doing 574 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,160 this? So the only people who think 575 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,400 he's putting it at risk are people who I think don't 576 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,680 understand what Bitcoin is. They think that they think 577 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,960 there's a chance that Bitcoin could go to 0 or fail. 578 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,520 And I, I used to think that back in like 2016 and maybe 2017 and 579 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,880 18. And then after thinking about it 580 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,600 and studying it for years and years and years and years, I 581 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,560 realize like that's just silly. It's like saying electricity is 582 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,760 going to fail or indoor plumbing is going to fail. 583 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,080 Just because it's a monetary technology doesn't mean it's not 584 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,880 a technology that's improving humanity. 585 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,240 So, so that's premise #1 is Bitcoin going to fail? 586 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,560 Absolutely not. Like 0% chance unless, you know, 587 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,840 again. And, and he gets asked these 588 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,560 questions all the time and I think they're so funny, like 589 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,400 whoa. And, and he's like, well, I 590 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,280 suppose if like a meteor struck the earth and we exploded or 591 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,720 that we, you know, collided with the sun, yeah, then Bitcoin 592 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,880 would probably fail, you know, but we probably have bigger 593 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,920 problems on our plate if that happens. 594 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,720 So. So Bitcoins not going to fail. 595 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,360 So that's the one thing it was brilliant what he did. 596 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,040 And, and, and I, I avoid the term speculative attack, even 597 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,200 though that was popularized. I think it was Pierre Rashard 598 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,960 maybe that that's coined that term or, or, or Bitstein or 599 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,480 somebody, you know, way back in the day, way before my time. 600 00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:59,880 Brilliant, brilliant thought process. 601 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,640 I call it a speculative arbitrage or just a carry trade. 602 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,400 So like a Bitcoin carry trade, what you do is you borrow a a 603 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,320 depreciating currency, which is any Fiat currency, but you can 604 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:13,320 use the dollar. That's great. 605 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:14,880 You could he could do this with anything. 606 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,240 He doesn't have to do it in dollars. 607 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,400 It wouldn't have to be the US stock system. 608 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,560 It could be like Metaplanet and they're using, you know, assets 609 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,360 in Japan to do the exact same thing. 610 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,960 Excuse me. What he's doing is he's filling 611 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,200 a need. So there was this huge need in 612 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,000 Wall Street for people who wanted access to Bitcoin but 613 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,560 couldn't have it. There's all these rules, right? 614 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,720 It's, it's so stupid. It's all these communities of 615 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,480 people who decided like, here's exactly what you can do and 616 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,320 here's what you can't do. And one of the things you can't 617 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,840 do is you can't buy Bitcoin. It's like, OK, well, people 618 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,240 don't want to miss out on this, on these games, obviously. 619 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,480 So one easy thing to do is you could, if you have a brokerage 620 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,920 account and if or if you're a business, you can just buy 621 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,080 MicroStrategy, the equity. OK, that's one, that's one thing 622 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,280 you can do. A second thing is that traders 623 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,480 love volatility, right? So people, so they love Bitcoin, 624 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,280 but maybe they don't have cryptocurrency exchanges and and 625 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,080 access to trading there. They want to trade in the in the 626 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,920 old system, the old Wall Street system. 627 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,280 So what it does is now you can create option strategies, you 628 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,160 can do trading and because of its massive volatility, you can 629 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,840 do all these kind of trading strategies. 630 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,240 So traders love that extreme volatility. 631 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,880 They've also created these double long and triple Long 632 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,400 Products, things like that, which I think are crazy by the 633 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,000 way, and don't don't recommend them at all. 634 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,440 Like never use leverage with Bitcoin, don't use leverage with 635 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,160 micro strategy. Those kind of people, the huger, 636 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,760 the more important product that they've created because they 637 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,000 have this Bitcoin core, this treasury of of Bitcoin assets. 638 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,960 They can spin off things like convertible debt and other forms 639 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,080 of debt. And so now the debt markets can 640 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,640 get into Bitcoin for the first time. 641 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,200 And I know you probably know this too, but the Bitcoin 642 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,520 convertible debt and these bonds, they've massively 643 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,320 outperformed regular bonds. So anybody who sorry. 644 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,560 I mean, I'm, I'm just getting excited so. 645 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,200 So, so, so imagine, right, you, you, you're some kid working for 646 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,240 some stodgy old bond company, then you can only invest in 647 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,880 bonds and you're like, awesome, we're going to make, you know, 648 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,960 4% this year, super low volatility because you got to 649 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,080 have low volatility. It's all people talk about like, 650 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,720 awesome, but they get Bitcoin, right? 651 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,200 And so they go talk to their 70 year old boss like, hey, I think 652 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,040 we should get Bitcoin because our results suck and we're 653 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,720 actually losing purchasing power to inflation every year. 654 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,560 And they're like, well, we can't do that. 655 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,240 And So what did Sailor do? He's like, hey, I got a deal for 656 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,320 you. I will give you access to 657 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,000 Bitcoin. I'll give you exposure to 658 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,480 Bitcoin, but with a much lower volatility. 659 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,040 So if Bitcoin has like a 60 ball, we're going to take the 660 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,000 ball down for you, you know, to say 10% or 15% or somewhere in 661 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,320 that range and we're going to limit all your downside. 662 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,720 So what Sailor is basically saying is I'll absorb all of the 663 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,600 volatility are almost all of the volatility on your behalf and 664 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,040 give you this much of the upside gain, even though that it the 665 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,280 stock is probably going to go up to here, you'll go here, but 666 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,800 with no downside risk. And to a bondholder, that's like 667 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,040 a miracle. That's like the greatest product 668 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,960 that you can imagine because you are you kidding me? 669 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:22,199 I could get like a 60% return over a year or two with no 670 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,320 downside risk. Yes, I'll take that all day. 671 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,760 And so that's why when Sailor he, he puts these products out, 672 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,719 they're not only subscribed instantly, they're 673 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,760 oversubscribed by multitudes and multitudes. 674 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,719 So, so he might put out like, I'm going to offer 800 million 675 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,320 and like literally like that he gets offers for like 1.2 billion 676 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,520 and they get oversubscribed. And I just literally think he's 677 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,960 going to be doing this over and over and over and over and over 678 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,440 again because the, the, the desire in the bond market and on 679 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,280 Wall Street to have these types of products where you can kind 680 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,480 of dial up or dial down your volatility on the back of 681 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,840 Bitcoin is insatiable. And I think that we're going to 682 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,000 that's that's what makes micro strategy such an amazing 683 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,520 product. And I get it, I get it right. 684 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,280 It's a centralized honeypot. There are downsides. 685 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,960 There are huge risks to it. I still tell everybody the best 686 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,560 thing to do is just own Bitcoin and cold storage, get it off 687 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,240 exchanges, get it out of the traditional financial system. 688 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,640 But people should be cheering him on at the same time. 689 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:28,160 I think every single CEO, founder, CFO of any public 690 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,680 company should be doing exactly what he's doing. 691 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,960 I truly do. And I think if you don't do 692 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,280 that, you're going to get left behind again, if you don't have 693 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,920 a Bitcoin strategy, even if it's just as simple as you put a 694 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,960 little, you buy a little bit, you DCA into Bitcoin with some 695 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,960 of your extra cash. If you're not doing that, you're 696 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,960 going to get left behind and you're going to be obsolete 697 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,120 within 10 to 20 years. Yeah, I completely agree. 698 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,160 And and you just blew my mind. I was, I was that was 699 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,280 fascinating. Just going down the the bonds of 700 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,840 now. Look, Doctor Ross, I have a 701 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,960 question for you, right? And this is something that, you 702 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,120 know, looking back because you know, I I I started my career, 703 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,800 my career has been Bitcoin, right? 704 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,400 And you know, I've been more media focused, but I understand 705 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,640 and I've explained this to you many times. 706 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,720 Or like I, I, I learned Bitcoin 1st and then I've had to 707 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,280 backtrad to like try to understand the traditional 708 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,880 financial system after. And you know, one of the things 709 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,120 that I noticed this year was for the first time, you know, and 710 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,600 I've held Bitcoin, it's eight years now. 711 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,160 Holy cow. But you know, for the first time 712 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,800 I was looking at it, I was like, should I have bought in 713 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,400 MicroStrategy instead of Bitcoin? 714 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,200 So that's my question to you is if you know, you get a a 715 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,320 question from a client or you get a question. 716 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,520 And again, this is not financial advice, just pref asterisk, 717 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,280 right? But if you get a question from a 718 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,720 a client or like a higher net worth individual and they say, 719 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,240 you know, Doctor Ross, like, what should I do? 720 00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:54,400 Should I buy MicroStrategy? Should I buy spot Bitcoin? 721 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,720 And then also, you know, as a Bitcoiner kind of puts you in 722 00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:00,520 this conundrum because you're just like, you know, I want to 723 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,680 take self custody of my Bitcoin. But at the same time you're 724 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,840 looking at MicroStrategy and you said, you know, theoretically I 725 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,760 could have multiplied the amount of Bitcoin I had like let's say 726 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,040 I would have put the equivalent of 1 Bitcoin into MicroStrategy 727 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,120 in the beginning of the year. Maybe I could have got in four 728 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,560 or five out of that, you know, so that's not something that's 729 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,760 very popular within the Bitcoin community. 730 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,120 But it is a very important question because, you know, 731 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,000 you're you're pitching spot Bitcoin to, you know, 732 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,760 traditional investors or whatever. 733 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,160 And they're looking at this like, why should I do that? 734 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,560 If I can just buy MicroStrategy, I'm comfortable within my 735 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,200 Charles Schwab account. I don't have to learn, you know, 736 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,200 all this technical stuff and all that stuff that we all advocate 737 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,400 for. What would be your advice 738 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,320 towards that person? Again, not finding this is 739 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,000 theoretical financial advice. So a couple of thoughts. 740 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:55,280 So let me say first that about two years ago, I really 2:00 to 741 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,880 3:00 somewhere really studied his his strategy, what he's 742 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,320 doing at MicroStrategy. And I thought this is the only 743 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,360 equity that I see that will outperform Bitcoin over the long 744 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,920 run. I don't think anything else 745 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,280 will. I don't think, I don't think 746 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,640 Bitcoin miners will. Everybody was all into Bitcoin 747 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,880 miners the last cycle. They're not so much this cycle, 748 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,960 but they're still doing pretty well all other businesses, even 749 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,200 if you, you know, whether you're a tech company, whatever kind of 750 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,000 company you are, you just can't outperform Bitcoin unless, how 751 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,600 could you do that through intelligent leverage? 752 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,520 So I, I actually think I'm the one who coined that term and I 753 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,160 think he's Michael Saylor took it from me because now he talks 754 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,880 about the intelligent leverage strategy of my, of my, and 755 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,480 that's great. It's an open source, you know, 756 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,240 community and maybe I didn't, maybe he came up with it, but 757 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,960 that I just looked ahead and thought this is the only thing 758 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,800 because of this leverage. And if you shrewdly apply 759 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,120 leverage, that's what a lot of hedge funds do too. 760 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,560 That's how they out they can outperform the market if you 761 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,520 shrewdly apply leverage and you have access to cheap leverage at 762 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,040 the right times. OK, so so that's that's number 763 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,880 one. Number two, everyone should own 764 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,040 Bitcoin and have it in cold storage. 765 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,800 Why? Because Bitcoin is an 766 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,280 alternative to the collapsing Fiat system. 767 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,800 So as much as I like micro strategy and I think it can 768 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,080 actually even outperform Bitcoin, you don't know what's 769 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,680 going to happen, right? And, and I, I hope he lives 770 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,360 forever, but sailor could die in a plane crash today. 771 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,240 He, he could, he could turn out he's doctor evil and he could be 772 00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:26,120 like, ha, ha, ha, I'm stealing all of this and we and we've 773 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,240 duped you all right. He's he stores this at different 774 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:32,080 places. I think Coinbase custody is one 775 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,080 of them. There's other places. 776 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,000 These are honeypots. It's possible somebody could get 777 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,480 access to this. You could have a bad player who 778 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,800 could some he could have a dude on his C-Suite in AC suite who 779 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,080 who colludes with some other dudes in AC suite and be like, 780 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,000 we're going to get the keys and we're going to take all this 781 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,280 Bitcoin and move it to Tahiti. You know, and there's all of 782 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,360 these different risks that you take on when you own 783 00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,120 MicroStrategy and other assets. So those things are real, right? 784 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,200 And nobody believes, I mean, especially in a bull market, 785 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,480 especially if you're outperforming, nobody cares. 786 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,080 They'll buy it at any price. They also don't care that you're 787 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,840 buying bit net. You know that it used to be on 788 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,640 par with to the NAV of the Bitcoin that it held on its 789 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:17,560 balance sheet and then it's it's gone up by multiples 3X4X5X. 790 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,600 To the to the amount of Bitcoin it owns it it it has owned and 791 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,440 that's kind of a market issue. And I and what happens is during 792 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,800 bull markets is the is the further the bull market goes on, 793 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,240 usually the greater that spread becomes at some point that 794 00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:34,280 spread closes again, right. People who own GB, this is a 795 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,800 different technical issue, but people who own GBTC back in the 796 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,280 last cycle learned that the hard way. 797 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,400 I actually learned that the hard way because in our hedge fund 798 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,440 that was about the only Bitcoin proxy I could find for my 799 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,480 clients. 2021 was a really good year for Bitcoin even though it 800 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,000 was subdued like we talked about earlier. 801 00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:54,120 But GBTC went from a premium to a discount to NAV to the net 802 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,560 asset value. So GBTC, if I remember it, I 803 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,000 think it returned 0 percent or right around it was flat in 804 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,760 2021. That was very painful. 805 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,320 So those kind of things can happen to micro strategy. 806 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,600 And that's another thing that I think about is when it's the 807 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,400 flavor of the cycle. So it when it's the darling of 808 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,360 the cycle, the last cycle, the darling started GBTC and then 809 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,840 that deflated and then it was the Bitcoin miners, they were 810 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,040 the darling of the 2021 cycle. Now it's MicroStrategy. 811 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,800 What usually happens is everybody wants the darling 812 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,240 right away. So that tends to peak earlier. 813 00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,080 So what I think is going to happen, and we've already seen 814 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,120 that, right, that the MicroStrategy is crushed, 815 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,960 Bitcoin returns. I think it's up to your .4 to 816 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,000 500% so far this year. I think it, if I had to, if I 817 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,720 had to guess, it's going to peak early and then it's going to 818 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:45,880 kind of fizzle while Bitcoin still kind of finishes its cycle 819 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,960 a little bit later. So just a guess. 820 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,400 I have no insight to that other than that's usually what happens 821 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,000 for the darlings of the cycle because people, everybody wants 822 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,240 that and then there's no more buyers left out at some point. 823 00:41:56,240 --> 00:42:00,040 So that's a really long winded answer to say if you have no 824 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,240 other alternative, yeah, go ahead and buy some micro 825 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:04,600 strategy. You go ahead and buy the ETF if 826 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,560 you want. But super critical that you 827 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,280 first need to establish real Bitcoin in cold storage outside 828 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,840 of the system. Because if things hit the fan or 829 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,360 if the government says, hey, we're going to seize this or 830 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,280 whatever, or something bad happens, if you have a Bitcoin 831 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,960 proxy, if you have a Bitcoin IOU, you don't have real 832 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,600 Bitcoin. I know you know that and I know 833 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,160 you tell your listeners that all the time, but you might be able 834 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,680 to outperform for a while. It's the same with nonsense 835 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,360 proof of proof of state crypto, right? 836 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,560 A lot of people get attracted by that kind of stuff. 837 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,840 You may outperform Bitcoin, but you're just playing with fire 838 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,520 when you do that kind of stuff. And and I think and you that's a 839 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,320 whole different subject, but you're just buying nonsense at 840 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,640 that point and you really run the risk of just losing it all 841 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,760 and getting rug pulled. And so just be smart. 842 00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:54,840 Absolutely, and it it that was an incredible answer. 843 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,840 So it was like it's a leverage play, but it's not replacing 844 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,240 real Bitcoin. All right, So if if if you're 845 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,880 you know, because there's some regulations, I believe like if 846 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,720 you own it, if you have like an IRA or something like it, you 847 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:11,840 can't actually like you can't have self custody Bitcoin. 848 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,480 And it's what you said it it it MicroStrategy has fulfilled this 849 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,080 need, right? For they want people want 850 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,520 exposure to Bitcoin, but because of the regulations, because of 851 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,200 the laws, they can't do it just a. 852 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:25,840 Quick, can I give you a quick case in point? 853 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,000 I run a hedge fund right? So I I my platform is 854 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,880 Interactive Brokers. I can buy Bitcoin through 855 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,240 Interactive Brokers on my hedge fund, but I can only buy up to 856 00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:40,680 $1,000,000 worth of Bitcoin on they have a relationship with 857 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,240 Paxos. This other exchange. 858 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,400 I can't put it in a cold storage. 859 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,320 I can only own it there and it's only up to 1,000,000, right. 860 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,680 And so that's fine if you're if you're a smaller investor, but 861 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,960 when I'm running a larger fund, that's just a small portion of 862 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,160 my fund. So I have to find proxies to 863 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,520 invest in Bitcoin. So I have to use MicroStrategy 864 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,320 and have to use ETFs if I want to have more Bitcoin exposure. 865 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,160 Very frustrating. Now what? 866 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,320 And one thing I wanted to say, there are places you can have 867 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:13,400 Bitcoin in self custody like multi sig solutions, Unchained 868 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,760 Capital has those. I think Swan offers those. 869 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,560 I think there are multiple institutions where you can hold 870 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,720 real Bitcoin in a multi sig solution in an IRA. 871 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,640 So I just wanted to say that sorry and I interrupted you. 872 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:25,960 I just wanted to give that example. 873 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,840 No, no, it's it's it's fascinating and one who sets 874 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,280 these laws. I'm so confused. 875 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,480 Like it's like up to 1,000,000 like why? 876 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,000 I don't understand. Is it like supposed to be met? 877 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,320 Is it meant to like, protect the investor? 878 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,000 Is that the psychology behind it? 879 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,920 Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I believe I, I believe a, a 880 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,520 prominent female senator from Massachusetts is behind almost 881 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,440 all of this stuff and I'm very bitter about it. 882 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:59,240 And, and I, I've changed a lot of my own businesses practices 883 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,280 and what I do because of these sorts of regulations that I've 884 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,880 butted heads clashed with for a couple of years, very 885 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,800 frustrating. So I think things will change 886 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,880 with this next administration and and the the laws will become 887 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,160 much more amenable and much more easy to comply with. 888 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,800 Yeah, and, and not to get into any of the specifics or 889 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,880 whatever, but it, it, it's almost as if like, you know, 890 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,800 and, and I and I was talking about art, but my show 891 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,640 specifically Doctor Ross, like we tried so hard to stay 892 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,040 apolitical. And then it got to a point 893 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:40,040 where, you know, I, me and Opti, of course, you know, Opti and we 894 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,720 were just like, and I, and I told him I was like, dude, are 895 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:44,240 we going to have to move to El Salvador? 896 00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:48,480 Like this isn't they forced our hand and they created like a 897 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,760 situation where the opposing political parties like, oh, this 898 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,160 is votes. You know, I don't think they 899 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:54,920 actually care. They're just like, this is a 900 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,760 great political opportunity for us. 901 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,800 You know, we'll say the things and it's like they, they forced 902 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,120 our industry to get active where I think bitcoiners inherently 903 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,360 just don't care about politics. But it's like they poked our 904 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,800 buttons to a point where we're just like, you know, like we 905 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,440 just wanted to do something. But anyways, I, I wanted to 906 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,760 pivot back to the, the micro, the, the, the micro strategy 907 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,160 conversations. That was so fascinating to me. 908 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:25,280 There is some recent news that was dropping in regards to the, 909 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,320 and I love the, and I'm sure you saw it, the Sailor poking the 910 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,720 buttons at the Microsoft CEO and then, you know, the shareholders 911 00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:37,600 like essentially, you know, put enough pressure on the board. 912 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,280 And then my then Sailor was able to make a 3 minute video where 913 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,360 he just essentially condensed all this information into a 914 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,200 slideshow. But they had a vote and it was 915 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,160 like, by and large, they just shut it down. 916 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,960 So, you know, we know all this is inevitable as Bitcoiners, but 917 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,320 why can't any, why can't everybody like, why can't other 918 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,800 people see it? You know, I know that Tesla has 919 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,880 Bitcoin, but why can't, why can't a company like Microsoft 920 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,360 super successful, you know, makes a tremendous amount of 921 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,800 money every year. They're holding, I think the 922 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,360 last time I checked was $88 billion of cash or cash 923 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,400 equivalents. So they're literally sitting on 924 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,760 in a melting ice cube. Why can't they see what Sailor 925 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,120 sees? Because they don't care. 926 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,760 I mean, think about Sailor. He was desperate right? 927 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,240 In 2020. He even admits that. 928 00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:32,040 And I've even said that publicly when when he's heard it is that 929 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,560 he had this a crappy software business that was dying and he 930 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,560 needed to do something. And he even says, I was thinking 931 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,120 about just shutting it all down. And then I discovered Bitcoin. 932 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,280 I was looking at like, I have these cash flows, which are 933 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,880 great, but we haven't been able to grow or figure a solution out 934 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:49,680 for years and years and years and years. 935 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,640 And he has very frustrated shareholders. 936 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,200 He's obviously a polymath, super intelligent guy. 937 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,640 And I'm sure he was just just kicking himself like day after 938 00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,520 day after day. Like, what do I got to do to, 939 00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:01,360 you know, make this company grow again? 940 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,080 And then you just. And that led him to Bitcoin. 941 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,280 When you, when you look at the Mag 7, the Microsofts, the 942 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,560 Amazon is going to be voting on this pretty soon as well. 943 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,160 These other, these other companies, they're so wildly 944 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,880 successful in the Fiat world that they don't need Bitcoin. 945 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,560 They don't care. They're like, why would we 946 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,000 disrupt the status quo? Why would we rock the boat? 947 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,840 Because we're doing so great. And, and also you got to 948 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,280 understand all of these businesses are run by 949 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,880 committees. They have everything is done by 950 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,240 the board, right? And so even if you have one or 951 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:34,320 two people who get Bitcoin, you have 8 to 20 people who don't 952 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,800 get Bitcoin and think it's a hoax still and they think it's a 953 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,400 scam. It just takes time, right? 954 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,240 So you got to get these younger people in who get it or the few 955 00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:45,680 older people who get it to, to effect change. 956 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,120 Michael Saylor could do it because he was the founder and 957 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,800 CEO. He's like, hey, I'm going to do 958 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,760 this. I've decided and here we go. 959 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,440 And I have, you know, a majority voting rights. 960 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,400 So nobody can stop me. If you don't like it, you can 961 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,840 leave. He gave that offer to people way 962 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,800 back in the day and some people did take him up on that. 963 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,680 So I just think that's what's going to happen. 964 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,080 And it's again, it's sort of what we talked about earlier. 965 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,920 It's not until these businesses get desperate that they realize 966 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,480 they need Bitcoin and they need that annualized rate of return 967 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,840 on their balance sheet till they till they realize like, Hey, you 968 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,320 know, we're, we're trying to do, you know, build this product 969 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:26,520 line, but it's, it only has an IRR of like 20% or 15% or 10% in 970 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,000 like, should we really be doing this? 971 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,040 What if we just put some Bitcoin on our balance sheet instead? 972 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,280 Or at least, you know, maybe split it up half and half? 973 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,720 So one of the things that I'm sort of proud of are well, two 974 00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:39,560 things related to what you said before I left Twitter, I made a 975 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:44,200 plea to to my followers and said, if you own shares of these 976 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,640 traditional stock market companies, these public 977 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,960 companies put shareholder proposals in there to get 978 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,560 Bitcoin on the balance sheet. We got to start, we, we have all 979 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,240 of this and we know the truth, right? 980 00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:58,840 So start spreading that and start forcing the issue because 981 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,240 as a shareholder you still have that power to bring up these 982 00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:05,400 issues. So that made a lot of news with 983 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,560 Microsoft and ended up, you know, so Sailor got to give his 984 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,200 little 3 minute pitch. I'm proud to say I was one of 985 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,680 the votes or I, my fund actually owns Microsoft. 986 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,720 We voted in favor of it. It lost. 987 00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:23,520 It only got .55% of the vote. So, so you know, 99.45% said no. 988 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,520 I was part of the .55% that said yes. 989 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,280 And people are like, how can you own Microsoft? 990 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,080 It's a Fiat company. And I'm like, I know, but I 991 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,880 started my fund. It was a total Fiat fund from 992 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,560 the beginning. It was a value fund that 993 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,920 invested in tech, technology and healthcare stocks. 994 00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,600 And we, we, we have come into Bitcoin and now we're like a 995 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,640 massively Bitcoin centric fund, but we still have a lot of these 996 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,880 older tech companies and things. And I still want to affect 997 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,160 change from within, right? So I, I also own Amazon and our 998 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:53,840 fund. I'm going to be voting in favor 999 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,720 of that too. We're going to lose by a massive 1000 00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:58,520 margin, but I guarantee, guarantee that over the years 1001 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,520 we'll start to win. And one by one these companies, 1002 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,120 somebody is going to figure it out, right? 1003 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,960 Maybe it's Tim Cook at Apple, who knows. 1004 00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:08,600 It's somebody somewhere who will have a lot of power who will 1005 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,080 say, you know what, we need to get on a Bitcoin standard or at 1006 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,600 least put a little bit of Bitcoin on our on our balance 1007 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,640 sheet or we're going to fall too far behind. 1008 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,680 So I'm I know it's going to happen. 1009 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,080 I think by the end of the decade, a lot more companies are 1010 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,680 going to do it. We're all excited about the fact 1011 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,640 that it's not just sailor anymore, right? 1012 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,160 It's the now it's similar scientific marathon Riot are 1013 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,840 doing it to Bitcoin miners. Dylan Leclair over at Metaplan 1014 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,600 is doing that over in Japan. I love it. 1015 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,520 I love it all. It's just the beginning though, 1016 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:37,760 right? I mean, it's literally going 1017 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,520 from like 0 to one. That's what's going to drive 1018 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,080 this next cycle though. So that's why I think that's how 1019 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:47,120 we get to say 475,000 or somewhere between 200,000 and a 1020 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,560 million. And then we fizzle again when 1021 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,120 the liquidity drains out of the system. 1022 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,160 But the next cycle we're going to go from, we went from zero to 1023 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:55,680 one this cycle. We're going to go from 1:00 to 1024 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,680 5:00 or one to 10% the next cycle. 1025 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,200 And that's what's really going to be driving the next wave in 1026 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,040 the next cycle. So I'm very excited about that 1027 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,360 as well. I 100% agree with you. 1028 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:10,320 I think that, you know, if, because I see it from like a, 1029 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,120 you know, and, and not to mention Tesla, because a lot of 1030 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,440 people slightly, but Tesla actually owns like it's like 1031 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,800 10,000 Bitcoin, like they're not doing the micro strategy 1032 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,880 strategy, but they he has. And it's not only Tesla, it's 1033 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,040 SpaceX too, right, which is really interesting. 1034 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,720 But you're the way that I would say it is. 1035 00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:31,760 If you're not, if you don't have Bitcoin on your on your balance 1036 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,720 sheet, you are at a competitive disadvantage to companies that 1037 00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:38,960 do. And the reason I'm saying this 1038 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,920 is obviously Michael Sailors proving it. 1039 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,040 But you know, Doctor Ross, you've known me for a while now 1040 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:49,280 and somehow I made managed to make a like my hobby into a 1041 00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,240 podcast, into a small media company. 1042 00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:54,480 I have no idea what, how, what happened, but one of the things 1043 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:59,760 that we've applied it's simply is we have a Bitcoin like our 1044 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,520 treasury, at least half. I can't do full because I have 1045 00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,480 to make payroll every month. But you know, at least half or 1046 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:11,680 more than like 5060% is in Bitcoin and it's your runway 1047 00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:16,120 just keeps getting longer. It's, it's a literal cheat code. 1048 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,200 I can't, I can't emphasize that enough. 1049 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,560 Like if you're a business and you don't have a Bitcoin 1050 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,360 treasury, you have no idea what you're missing. 1051 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,640 And I think it obviously it applies to people on an 1052 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,880 individual level as well, right? If you're on a Bitcoin standard, 1053 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,240 but I think no one really saw it, you know, the, the, the, it 1054 00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:39,520 really became popular, you know, is your, is your, it's not only 1055 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,120 are you on a Bitcoin standard, is your business on a Bitcoin 1056 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,760 standard that really started to become popular relatively 1057 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,200 recently, but it is such a cheat code like, and it does. 1058 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,440 You don't even have to have a Bitcoin business. 1059 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,200 It's just any business. If you are on a Bitcoin 1060 00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,760 standard, you're, you're at a competitive advantage compared 1061 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,880 to everyone else that's not on a Bitcoin standard. 1062 00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:05,800 And also your, your runway, your treasury is just going to keep 1063 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:10,000 expanding, you know, over time. So, and and then I guess my 1064 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,200 question to you, Doctor Ross is, is that just because of of I, I 1065 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,760 don't the correct word is not deflationary, but is that just 1066 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,160 because Bitcoin just increases in purchasing power over time? 1067 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,960 Is it as simple as that? All right, it's a decentralized 1068 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,800 secure neutral energy money. That's how I describe it. 1069 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,120 It like those terms and I choose them carefully neutral when I 1070 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,240 say that basically it's a fixed supply, obviously, right. 1071 00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:38,520 So to and Jeff Booth talks about this all the time. 1072 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:43,120 So it captures the deflationary forces that technology. 1073 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,320 So humanity, human progress is deflationary. 1074 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,640 Deflationary games are captured in Bitcoin. 1075 00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,520 And so the two things, and it's just, this is just like 1076 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:56,760 literally alien. We're speaking a different 1077 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,200 language to people in the Fiat system. 1078 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,320 They can't even imagine this because we grew up in this 1079 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,920 inflationary world, right? This Fiat world where everything 1080 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,240 gets more expensive, the packages get smaller, the amount 1081 00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:12,640 of food gets smaller and quality decreases on the Fiat system. 1082 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:13,920 And that's what we're all used to. 1083 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,520 You get less and less and less for more and more and more every 1084 00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,320 year. It's crazy, it's criminal and 1085 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,200 it's theft by the So we all know that, right? 1086 00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:21,240 We don't have to talk about that. 1087 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,760 What is Bitcoin? It's, it's literally what, what 1088 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,600 does it do? It, it, it means that prices go 1089 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:33,120 down year after year on average, yes, every 3rd or every fourth 1090 00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,920 year they go up, but then they go down again and over time they 1091 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,120 go down South. Overtime prices go down. 1092 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,080 Overtime quality improves. Every bitcoiner I've I've ever 1093 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,560 known, and I've known a lot of Bitcoiners, including myself, 1094 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,800 we've all, as we've gotten more and more on a Bitcoin standard, 1095 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:53,400 we've experienced life getting cheaper, quality improving. 1096 00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:56,680 And so when I tell people who are in in so I'm a physician, 1097 00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,760 right? You guys know that I have 1098 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,160 doctors talk to me all the time, like, well, should we put it on 1099 00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,360 our balance sheet? And I'm like, do you want your 1100 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,680 medical practice? The do you want the cost of your 1101 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,040 goods and services to get cheaper and the quality to 1102 00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,480 improve? Like, well, yeah, I'm like, so 1103 00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,080 put Bitcoin on your balance sheet Like, well, you can't, I'm 1104 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,320 like, you can do that. I'm like, like you keep, you 1105 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,680 keep like Nico, you know, you run a business, you have a 1106 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,920 payroll, but you usually have a little extra money. 1107 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,360 You, you know, you don't ever go all the way down to 0 in your 1108 00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,880 bank account, put 10% of it into Bitcoin and just start doing 1109 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,480 that. And then as and that will grow. 1110 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,280 And then as you, your, you know, comfort level with Bitcoin 1111 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,040 increases, you can increase that to 20 and then to 30 and then to 1112 00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,400 50, you know, and that's what it happens to every individual. 1113 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,160 And then it happens to every business and every business that 1114 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,400 does that it, life gets cheaper and quality improves. 1115 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,800 And so I'm so excited about this for healthcare, cause healthcare 1116 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,080 in the US is super frustrating for doctors. 1117 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,360 We're, we hate it. The system is broken. 1118 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,120 It's run by administrators and pharma companies and insurance 1119 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,320 agents and, and they all get in our grill all the time and tell 1120 00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,440 us what we can and can't do. And it's super frustrating and 1121 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,600 patients hate it because they're like the doctor said I needed 1122 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,040 this, but insurance just declined it, you know, and, and 1123 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,400 it's, it's all of this stuff. And, and it's not just 1124 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,760 healthcare that's broken, by the way, the education system is 1125 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,560 broken, The military is broken. All of these systems have been 1126 00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,200 taken over by this crappy Fiat system. 1127 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,000 And the government's got their fingers and everything, right? 1128 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,560 And you can look at charts like, so going back to healthcare, the 1129 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,120 administration staff of, of, of healthcare has gone like this 1130 00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,160 and the doctors has gone like this, right? 1131 00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,320 And, and, and as the administration goes up here, 1132 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,080 people are more and more unhappy. 1133 00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:40,560 The doctors and patients aren't happy. 1134 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,920 Same thing in finance. I shut down my RIA this year, 1135 00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,440 which is very hard and it was a hard decision, but I'm super 1136 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,480 happy I did it had I like 120 clients that I that I had to let 1137 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,480 go of because the regulators were just driving me nuts. 1138 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,440 I, I was butting heads all the time by people who literally sit 1139 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,200 in an office who don't know how to invest, forcing me to the 1140 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,920 comply to their rules and how to invest safely for my clients. 1141 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,840 And it just drove me nuts And I'm like, I'm out. 1142 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,120 I can't take this anymore. OK, so I'm, I'm sorry, I'm going 1143 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,920 on a little tangent. All Bitcoin does is make life 1144 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,880 cheaper and it makes quality improve for all of humanity. 1145 00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,680 And so if you want that for your life, then you should own 1146 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,440 Bitcoin. If you want it for your family, 1147 00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,080 you should own Bitcoin. I'm a Christian. 1148 00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,880 If you want it for your church, you should own Bitcoin. 1149 00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,360 If you want it for your pension or your endowment. 1150 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,280 If your university is struggling right now, you should own 1151 00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,760 Bitcoin in your endowment or your pension or just in your 1152 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,440 savings things account. If you're a business and 1153 00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,080 especially if you're a physician and you run a private physician 1154 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,280 practice and there are a lot of people who follow me who do 1155 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,400 that, put Bitcoin on your balance sheet. 1156 00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,560 You will soon over the over 10, probably within five years, but 1157 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,400 over probably 10 years, you'll start to have better services. 1158 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,120 You'll all have more purchasing power, meaning you'll make more 1159 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,440 money. You will be able to provide 1160 00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,000 cheaper, better, cheaper and better equipment. 1161 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,240 Like right I, I'm a radiologist. You can get the best MRI scans, 1162 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,760 the best CT scans, the best equipment for your patients 1163 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,840 because you're making so much more on the Bitcoin standard. 1164 00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,760 And you can actually charge less on a Bitcoin standard for your 1165 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,920 patients. So people will love you, you'll 1166 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,240 be super happy, Everyone will be happier. 1167 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,840 It literally is better money for a better world. 1168 00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,200 And it's so simple, but nobody does it because everybody's too 1169 00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,200 scared because they don't want to disrupt the status quo. 1170 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:29,320 So I'm like, be bold. Take a chance, like trust 1171 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,800 yourself and your intuition and start doing that with yourself 1172 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,200 and with your family and with your business and, and then you 1173 00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,800 can thank me 10 years from now or thank Negros. 1174 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,520 Absolutely. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's a 1175 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:42,920 cheat code. It's a cheat code. 1176 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:48,520 You know, it's, it's, it's and it's so we're so the world is so 1177 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,600 nihilistic because they've just been conditioned to live in the 1178 00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,480 Fiat system. And despite all of that, the 1179 00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:58,520 free market still works, right? Despite all of that, you know, 1180 00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:02,160 people are able to put businesses together despite, you 1181 01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,520 know, all these disadvantages. And then Bitcoin comes in and 1182 01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:10,200 you're and and it's, it's, it's like almost too good to be true, 1183 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,200 right? But all it is, it's just, you 1184 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,840 know, and I, I love the way that Jeff Jeff Booth puts it. 1185 01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:19,960 He's like, look, this is the way that. 1186 01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:24,240 Prices should be This is the way that the market should function. 1187 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:28,000 You know it is. It is unreasonable to think that 1188 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:32,080 you know, for whatever reason, on on Saturdays and Sundays, you 1189 01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:33,960 can't buy whatever stock you want. 1190 01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,200 Like, the market just shuts down if the volatility is too big. 1191 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,080 There's a circuit breaker. And then in regards to Bitcoin, 1192 01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:45,440 it's like, you know, it's actually properly reflecting the 1193 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,880 improvements in innovation and the improvements in 1194 01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,080 productivity. And he makes the case that it's 1195 01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,520 like the world is naturally deflationary and Bitcoin is the 1196 01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:59,280 only thing that is accurately portraying that because 1197 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,120 everything else is so manipulated that it, it's, it's 1198 01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,360 it, it, it makes it seem like life is supposed to be getting 1199 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,920 more expensive. Where why should it be getting 1200 01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,720 more expensive? And, you know, and I, the way 1201 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,280 that I'm seeing it, Doctor Ross is like my generation. 1202 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:19,120 So I'm a millennial and Jen's years, like we really got the 1203 01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,440 short end of the sick with 2008, 2009. 1204 01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,960 And somehow you're looking at it. 1205 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,920 If it wasn't for Bitcoin, you know, like I, I would have less 1206 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,160 opportunities than my parents. I, I wouldn't have the ability 1207 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:33,920 to purchase a house the way they did. 1208 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:36,480 I wouldn't have like the job opportunities. 1209 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,120 But the world on paper is richer. 1210 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,120 It's much richer. So what is going on there? 1211 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,000 If you're on a Bitcoin standard? I love, you know, I love, I love 1212 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:48,200 this one. The first time I heard it. 1213 01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,440 It's like the American dream isn't dead. 1214 01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:55,480 You're just using the wrong unit of account, you know, So you 1215 01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,880 know, it, it's, it's definitely a cheat code. 1216 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,320 But anyways, we are, we are getting to the top of the hour. 1217 01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,160 And I do want to give you one last opportunity, Doctor Ross, 1218 01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,400 you know, to the audience, we haven't talked in a while. 1219 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:12,760 What are some last words of wisdom that you have for 1220 01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,920 everybody heading into what we anticipate is going to be the 1221 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,120 year of the parabola? Everyone's really excited. 1222 01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,080 What would those words of wisdom be? 1223 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,840 Oh man, OK, I'll try to. I'll try to be concise, but let 1224 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:29,440 me think. So you talked about Bitcoin 1225 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,320 being a cheat code. I totally agree with that. 1226 01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:35,200 One thing I want to say to that or to qualify is there's there's 1227 01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,760 a certain personality that gets freaked out when they hear that 1228 01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,960 term because they're like, I don't want to cheat. 1229 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,240 That sounds bad. It sounds ominous, right? 1230 01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,960 OK, so just so people understand, you're not cheating 1231 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:46,440 if you use it. Bitcoin is totally 1232 01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,200 permissionless. You don't have to ask permission 1233 01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:50,960 to use it. It's an opt in system. 1234 01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,640 It's optional, unlike government Fiat where you have to use it, 1235 01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:56,840 right? You can decide to use it. 1236 01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,440 And that's one of the things that makes Bitcoin beautiful. 1237 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,880 So it's it's it, but, and to Nico's point, it is a cheat code 1238 01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:04,920 for a better life. If you want your life to get 1239 01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:08,520 cheaper and you want quality to improve, then get yourself on a 1240 01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:12,080 Bitcoin standard, even if that means just getting off of 0 and 1241 01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,200 just owning a few Satoshi's like it, it, it, that's how it all 1242 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,800 starts. The second thing is, and I, I 1243 01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,440 have to credit Jeff Booth for this is I get asked all the time 1244 01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,360 and it's because I'm a fund manager to, to make price 1245 01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:28,360 predictions in dollar terms. And we all get excited about the 1246 01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,760 bull markets and we all get excited about the exponential 1247 01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:32,320 move higher that we're all expecting. 1248 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:34,720 Try not to focus on that though, right? 1249 01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,320 Like think about Bitcoin as prices go down. 1250 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,120 Technology I, I show all the time. 1251 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,160 I still do this over on Nostril where I show every month an 1252 01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:46,320 updated page from the Fred, the the Saint Louis Federal Reserve. 1253 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,920 They have a page that says buying eggs with Bitcoin. 1254 01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,080 Look, you can look it up yourself, go Google it and it 1255 01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:55,480 shows the price of eggs in dollars and then right below it, 1256 01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,480 it shows the price of eggs in Bitcoin since January of 2015. 1257 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,240 It is fascinating to look at and I love it that they have it on 1258 01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,200 there because they originally put it on there to show that 1259 01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,920 Bitcoin is too volatile and you shouldn't use it. 1260 01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,480 Look how much better it is on in dollar terms. 1261 01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,400 But what what that chart shows, and I've started showing it in 1262 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:17,920 five year increments, so rolling five year periods over the last 1263 01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,760 five years, the price of eggs in dollar terms has gone up about 2 1264 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:25,200 1/2 times, so about 150%. I think it's a little higher 1265 01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,040 than that actually. And, and in Bitcoin terms, it's 1266 01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,640 actually been cut in half. It's a little more than cut in 1267 01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:32,160 half. So you're paying less than half 1268 01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,480 for eggs than you were five years ago if you live on a 1269 01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,560 Bitcoin standard and you're paying 2 1/2 times more if you 1270 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:42,320 have dollars. So think about Bitcoin as prices 1271 01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:46,760 go down and quality improves technology, don't get too 1272 01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,000 excited. You're going to see people 1273 01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,200 getting making all this money and they're going to talk about 1274 01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,400 trading Bitcoin. But I would just really 1275 01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:54,840 encourage you to think of it as the world's greatest savings 1276 01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,000 technology, right? The only reason we have these 1277 01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,920 big, huge increases in price are because of these liquidity 1278 01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:01,760 waves. When the waves come in, just 1279 01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,680 like a wave comes, it's super powerful, but then it passes you 1280 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:07,440 and then it goes down again. And the price, we're going to 1281 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:09,960 have a bear market after that. So yeah, I don't, I don't like 1282 01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,680 it when people get disenfranchised because they 1283 01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,480 aped in, they got, you know, they followed, they followed in 1284 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:18,360 AT400K and then now Bitcoin fell all the way back down to 100 1285 01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,280 gig. And so have a longer term 1286 01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,280 perspective in mind. I, I can, you know, I can't make 1287 01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,480 guarantees, but I'm very confident that 10 years from now 1288 01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,320 the price of Bitcoin will be at least $1,000,000 and probably 1289 01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,960 more, you know, per Bitcoin. So think about pricing your life 1290 01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:35,960 in Bitcoin, think about having a better life. 1291 01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,840 Think about how can I capture the games that humanity is all 1292 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,120 this human progress is making life better and making life 1293 01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,240 cheaper and, and making quality improve. 1294 01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,200 You can capture that by owning Bitcoin. 1295 01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:52,520 So it's just so much bigger than a, than a trade and, and start 1296 01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:54,600 thinking about that way and start trying to live on a 1297 01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,320 Bitcoin standard And you're, you're, you'll literally start 1298 01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,800 noticing an improvement in your life a minimum of four years 1299 01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,800 and, and, and probably sooner. Love it. 1300 01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:08,920 I completely agree Doctor Ross, always a pleasure to have you on 1301 01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:10,880 the show. Really appreciate it. 1302 01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:15,040 Now you have left at Twitter, which now is called X. 1303 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:21,400 So where can people find you and stay up to date with what you're 1304 01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,680 doing and what you're thinking and what you're working on? 1305 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,440 Yeah, so I'm, I'm intentionally being more reclusive now, so 1306 01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:29,440 staying out of the, the spotlight a little bit. 1307 01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:33,080 I'm on Noster a little bit. I'm actually not on there that 1308 01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:37,920 much, but I'm Doctor Jeff on Noster and that's really it. 1309 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,040 I run my hedge fund and I, I keep a low profile. 1310 01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,000 And so, you know, you should follow, if you want to follow 1311 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,600 me, follow Nico instead and follow Simply Bitcoin and you'll 1312 01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:48,440 be much happier. You'll get a lot more content. 1313 01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:50,960 Really appreciate it, Doctor Ross. 1314 01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,120 Very kind of you. Awesome.