Legendary short investor Jim Chanos is calling Michael Saylor
a salesman and initiating a short trade against micro
strategy. Michael Saylor.
Is is a wonderful salesman, but that's.
What he is, he's a. Salesman and what he's selling
investors is the concept that you.
Give me your money. And I'm just going to go.
Buy Bitcoin and hopefully the value of my stock trades at a.
Premium to the. Value of that.
Bitcoin and so as long as I can keep.
Doing that I generate value. Jim, here's my question, and
this is true for any other major investor right now.
Where else would you invest your money or other people's money
right now? The dollar is on track for its
worst performance in three decades. the United States
public debt to GDP looks like a developing nation, and the stock
market is at its highest valuation measured against GDP
of all time. You remember that movie
Everything Everywhere All at Once?
Well, Everything, Everyone, Everywhere all at Once is
beginning to converge onto Bitcoin.
There are no value trades left out there.
It's the universal value investment for corporations,
billionaires and regular people like you and me.
Oh, and even crypto Bros like Charles Hoskinson.
There's some data showing that the dollar is collapsing.
What do you want to own right now?
This is Dante Cook with Bitcoin. Simply, let's go.
I run into crypto people that have been the business for a
decade and they have very complicated ideas that don't
work. Yes.
And and Ioffer them a simple idea.
I'm like, here's an idea. You're a public company, sell
your equity, buy the Bitcoin. They're like, no, that'll never
work. OK, well, I guess it might work.
Well, what if the Bitcoin goes down?
Well, blah, blah, blah. OK, I guess it worked, you know,
and you know what the latest pushback is, Jeff?
The latest pushback is, well, it worked for you and it worked so
well that you're the winner. And there's no room for another
company to do it in the market. So we literally went from I
don't think it'll work at all to it might to it did.
Oh, it worked too well. That's my excuse for why I'm not
going to do it. And people just come up with
these giga brain excuses for why they won't.
Don't want to do the simplest thing in the world?
And one of the most shocking and insane pieces of news that I've
seen. Crypto Bros have completely
given up and have started waving the white flag of their
worthless tokens and moving to Bitcoin.
Charles Hoskinson, the founder of Cardano, says that he's going
to sell some of his tokens in order to build a stable coin and
Bitcoin treasury. I do believe that it will not
materially impact Cardano by doing a conversion of five to
10% of the treasury into stable assets and assets like Bitcoin.
And in doing this, we can create a yield and that yield on an
annual basis can be used to purchase ADA and overtime
replenish the treasury. And if this program is
successful, then we can actually continue that strategy on an
annualized basis and over a period of five to 10 years
potentially grow to a billion dollar plus stable coin treasury
and Bitcoin treasury to augment and enhance the ADA value in the
treasury that we have. This sets us up for great
returns and for a pretty stable floor for the ecosystem as a
whole, like you would want in any good sovereign wealth.
Fund, the crypto founder, is realizing, like most crypto
founders, that he is operating a zombie company, sort of like
Michael Saylor in 2020. But if you saw that there was
the best performing asset in the world 11 out of the last 14
years that could also become the medium of exchange and that very
few people own right now, wouldn't you want to buy it as
well? This is what got Michael Saylor
to flip from saying that Bitcoins days are numbered.
It seems like just a matter of time before it suffers the same
fate as online gambling. He said that back in 2013 and 12
years later, he's replying to Adam Back, one of the people
mentioned in the original Bitcoin white paper, saying that
Bitcoin is the new hurdle rate. Saylor became so bullish and so
outspoken that he was even getting calls from athletes like
Say Kwan of My Eagles and on Brand.
He told him not to just put his endorsement money, which he did,
into Bitcoin in 2021. He told him to put all of his
money into Bitcoin in 2021. For me, I felt like it was the
right time to get involved, me and my, my manager cuz and
having conversation with, you know, with Pomp and and Jack.
I felt like that was a perfect time to do it.
And I was able to get on a phone call with Michael Saylor.
And, you know, back then he told me that I should take all my
money and put it in. I think he's doing pretty well.
I probably should listen to him. MicroStrategy has gone from a
$500 million company to $105 billion company, yet people
still think that Bitcoin is going to crash.
People still think that it's a bad strategy.
But Michael Saylor believes that it's just the opposite, that the
bear markets are over and right now is the best risk adjusted
time to buy Bitcoin that you possibly can.
How do you expect the asset to continue a price increase at
these levels that we've seen? I mean, can it keep that up over
the next five years, over the next 10 years?
And at what point do we see, you know, winter coming again,
because that's been a a permanent fixture of of this
asset class, right? It's gone from 0 or 1000 to 20
and then back down to three or four and then up to 50 and then
back down to 15 and now up to 110.
Like when does it drop again? Winners not coming back, we're
past that. We're past that phase.
If bitcoins not going to 0, it's going to $1,000,000 and you have
all the evidence you need to determine that, right?
The president of the United States has determined he
supports Bitcoin. The cabinet supports Bitcoin.
Scott Pesson supports Bitcoin. Paul Atkins has shown himself to
be an enthusiastic believer of Bitcoin and digital assets.
Kentaaz at CFTC feels the same. Ray, the the banks are going to
custody Bitcoin. Bitcoin is has gotten through
its riskiest period. The accounting has been
corrected. There's now only 450 Bitcoin a
day available for Sale by natural sellers.
That's the miners. At this level, that works out to
about $50 million of Bitcoin available for sale every day.
If that $50 million is bought, then the price has got to move
up to find any natural, any any seller that's price sensitive.
Now, if you do the math, you'll actually see the Bitcoin
treasury companies by themselves are buying the entire natural
supply. BlackRock and the ETFs are
buying another measure of that. And we've got nation state
actors coming into the space. So I think when Bitcoin rallies,
if it surges to 500,000 or $1,000,000, then maybe we could
talk about it crashing down by a $200,000 a coin.
But at the current price levels, it only takes $50,000,000 to
turn the entire drive shaft of the crypto economy.
One turn and you've got the Trump Media Organization
announcing 2 1/2 billion. You've got GameStop announcing
500 million. You've got my company that's
raising billions and billions of dollars.
So the writing is on the wall. Bitcoin's moving.
Higher. As I mentioned before, the
dollar's on track for its worst performance in 30 years. the US
dollar is showing signs of collapse following its typical
10 year historical cycles. And our stocks and our debt as
measured in GDP well, the charts don't look good right now.
Tavi Costa is showing us that equity values are rising much
faster than our actual growth. And what's interesting to see is
that the dollar is collapsing while the 10 year yields are
also rising. The decoupling.
And This is why legendary investors like Paul Tudor Jones
pulled the siren this week, saying that policy makers are in
between a rock and a hard place and that the typical portfolio
that you should own should have stocks, gold and Bitcoin in
order to outpace the high inflation that we're going to
see. Like the 1950s, investors are
waking up to the reality that Bitcoin is not just going to be
the best performing store of value, but it can also be a
medium of exchange and more moving forward.
And so if you think about today, the average finance user, they
have a savings account, they have a checking account and they
have a brokerage account. That's what we're basically
seeing recreate in the digital world.
You're saving in Bitcoin, you're spending in stable coins and
then you are going and you're speculating on whatever assets
you want your portfolio. What I think the big question
becomes, and I don't have the answer, I don't think anyone
does yet, is as we continue to see the destruction of the
purchasing power of the US dollar, are we going to see
people start who price things in Bitcoin?
Now, I don't think that's something that's going to happen
in 1-3, maybe even five years. But I do think that there is a
growing group of people who say, look, this thing called Bitcoin
is ultimately going to be a store value as it already is,
but it will become a medium of exchange as well.
It just needs to get to a point where the world all agrees on
what is it worth. And if you think in 2018 the
world thought it was worth $3000 a coin, Today the world thinks
it's worth $105,000 a coin, it's going to continue to go higher
and at some point it will reach some market equilibrium.
And then when you see that switch over into, OK, now things
are priced in Bitcoin, I think that's kind of the hyper
bitcoinization that the bitcoiners are waiting for.
But there is a long path to get there.
And the sequence right now is why would I want to spend my
Bitcoin if it's going to be worth more in the future, right?
I want to spend the dollars that are going to be worth less in
the future. And This is why micro strategy
isn't just going to be 1 of 79 companies that hold Bitcoin on
its balance sheet, but there's going to be thousands at some
point. And this is a mega trend that's
just beginning that as of March 30. 1st of this year. 79 public
companies. Hold a collective. 57 billion.
Dollars in Bitcoin on their balance sheets.
That's a nearly 160% rise over the past year.
What do you attribute that bump to?
And generally. Speaking, Why do you think
public companies are betting? Big on Bitcoin?
Yeah, I think there are a few reasons for that.
We think this is a mega trend, by the way, that's going to
accelerate into the future. One, of course, is increased
worries about the dollar. Corporations globally are
sitting on records amount of cash and what they've
historically done is park it in short term U.S.
Treasuries or in fact in cash accounts.
With the huge money printing and growing deficits, that no longer
seems like a valid approach. They need another way to protect
their wealth from degradation, and they're turning to the best
horse in that race, which is Bitcoin.
Beyond that, the investing audience has just recognized
that this is a positive strategy, and so companies are
being rewarded for taking this bold step of putting Bitcoin on
their balance sheet. We think there will ultimately
be thousands of companies that do this.
We think we're in inning one or two of this megatrend period,
but you're seeing it accelerate over time.
It's very exciting. One of the things that these big
companies do that you now have the ability to do as an
individual is not to sell your Bitcoin, but to borrow against
your Bitcoin, borrow against the assets on your personal balance
sheet. And you can do that with letting
the leader in Bitcoin back loan. Since 2018, they've issued over
$9 billion worth of loans to 10s of thousands of customers and
have done so in a fast, transparent and smooth manner,
which is why they have over 1005 star customer reviews.
They've never lost a single sat or cent of customer money and
they were the one of the first digital lenders to do a digital
proof of reserves so that you know that they have the assets
that they claim to loan started this 12 point four and you can
get 25 off your first loan by going to learn leaden AO.
Simply one of the things that the most wealthy people do is
they don't sell their assets. They continue to pass them down
to future generations and one of the things that they do is they
put them into trust. They have them as part of their
estates and they protect them. Well.
One of the ways you can protect your assets from forfeiture or
being stolen or plain just not being given to you from an
exchange like Coinbase is by removing your keys from the
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Simply Bitcoin. There's not just a wave of
publicly traded companies like MicroStrategy and others, even
crypto tokens like Cardano. Now I can't believe that I'm
saying that that are moving to buy Bitcoin as part of their
balance sheet in their treasuries.
But it's also real estate investors, investors like Donald
Trump Junior and the Trump family, who realized that the
scheme that they were once a part of and benefiting from is
in fact a Ponzi scheme. A pyramid scheme in that on a
flip of a switch or a blink of an eye, they can be just like
the rest of us on the outside looking in.
Because he did these things. The reason we got into crypto
and we're all in on crypto and we're doing American Bitcoin and
we have World Liberty Finance and USD One was because there
was a time and probably I'd been on this show where there was AI
could call any single banker in New York City.
They'd pick up the phone. I'd be able to get a loan for
whatever real estate project I was doing across the street.
Then we got into politics and all of a sudden they wouldn't
take your call. You couldn't get financing.
We were debanked. And what I realized and my
brother realized because we were the recipients of every subpoena
imaginable, was that you know what?
We were actually just the top of this sort of pyramid scheme that
we didn't realize we were a part of, that the financial system
was totally undemocratized because we had a certain balance
sheet and whatever, we could kind of do whatever we wanted.
The regular guy was messed up. Now we were all of a sudden in
the shoes of the regular guy that wouldn't be able to take
advantage of the markets. And we said, what's the solution
for that? The answer is crypto.
You know, these decentralized platforms where you're not
beholden to this, where you create efficiencies as a guy
that did real estate, you know, why am I paying points in and
out for title insurance that could be done on the blockchain?
So we got into crypto not because it was like, hey, this
is the next cool thing. We got into it out of necessity.
We got into it because we understood just how quickly we
could be turned off, even as an incredible developer from New
York. I mean, I don't think anyone
would argue that we didn't change the skylight of New York
City. But that disappeared in an
instant. I mean, we're getting sued by
the New York State AG, half a billion dollar fees for paying
back loans on time with interest.
These aren't, you know, fair markets.
There's no nothing egalitarian about any of that.
So we actually, as innovators, as people who understand these
things, we went on all, all in on a concept that makes total
sense because we'd actually been the recipient.
Well, how quickly that can be shut off.
And here's the big thesis. The next technological
revolution isn't in some other form of technology.
It's in money. And Bitcoin is the bedrock of
it, whether we're talking about Bitcoin and whether we're
talking about layer twos like lightning and stable coins that
are being built on top of Bitcoin, according to people who
live, breathe and eat this stuff, like Jack Mahler's, we're
just at the beginning. And $2 trillion is scratching
the surface for the hundreds of trillions of dollars that are
out there for Bitcoin to consume in the future.
You're talking about humans have created and are looking to store
and later exchange anywhere between 300 to $500 trillion
worth of purchasing power today. And for me, that's the
opportunity Bitcoin is going after, is that people forget
money is a technology just like any other technology we've
invented. We invented it to scale society
and solve for barter. And so the technology performs a
very, very specific use case in the marketplace.
And that use case is an ability to store and later exchange
value within the market. Money is the one market good
that you do not consume. You know, your Coca-Cola, your
cheeseburger, your airplane, your car.
You consume those things. You consume the car to to move
you around. You consume the airplane to fly
you around. You consume the cheeseburger and
the coke as food and calories. Money is the one you don't
consume. You acquire it to save it, not
consume it until later, exchange it for the things you need.
And so under all of that logic, I personally believe in today's
purchasing power terms, Bitcoin is competing over 300 to $500
trillion worth of value and right now it's at 2.
So in purchasing power terms, I think it's got no one to no 2300
X left in it and that's not in dollar terms because obviously
as the dollar gets debased, it's distorting your understanding of
purchasing power. You have to be able to see it
and be patient because these things will take much longer
than you think, and you can get mad or upset or hate on people
like Michael Saylor for seeing what's obvious.
The dollar is losing its value, and there's not a lot of good
places for you to invest your capital right now.
They're turning to Bitcoin and they're not investing into 10
things. They're investing into one thing
and focusing on that egg in the basket.
With all of their focus and attention, it might be wise for
you and me to do the same. One of the ways that they're
focusing all of their attention on this one asset class is by
learning everything that they can about it.
You can learn about all the makers, manufacturers, and
builders in the space by coming down to Dallas, TX from November
11th through November 13th at the Bitcoin Mining Disrupt
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If you got value from this episode like always, please
like, do and share. And as always, happy stacking.