1 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,520 Hello everybody, Welcome to another episode of Simply 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,160 Bitcoin IRL. Today we're honored to have a 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,600 very special guest, massive fan of his work and I'm of course 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,720 I'm talking about Peter St. Hodge. 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,560 Before I bring him on the show, I do want to give a shout out to 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,560 the Bitcoin company that makes this show possible. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,600 Swan Bitcoin. It's the best place to build 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,080 your Bitcoin stack. It's being built by Bitcoiners. 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,080 It's for Bitcoiners. If you go to swan.com/simply, I 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,840 think if you buy the 1st $100, you get $10.00 for free. 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,720 Highly recommend it. It's where I stack my Bitcoin. 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,160 Check out swan.com today. All right everybody, no more 13 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:43,800 delay. Let's bring Peter up on on 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,920 stage. Hey, Peter, how are you? 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,560 Great. Not bad, Nico. 16 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,200 How are you? Good. 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,320 Good. We met in the flesh for the 18 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,520 first time in Los Angeles. That was awesome. 19 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,680 Yes, and it was beautiful out there. 20 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,000 It was a great gang. It was a really good vibe at 21 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,960 that conference. It was just the right size. 22 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,000 It was. It was fun. 23 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,480 You had the talk after mine, or I think it was before mine. 24 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,880 What was your talk about? Let's see. 25 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,000 I was up there with Stefan Lever and we were talking about 26 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,240 Austrian economics. So of course. 27 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,160 You were with Stefan. Yeah, right. 28 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,120 What else? And I've actually known Stefan 29 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,760 for years and years. We knew each other way back when 30 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,280 there was free speech on Facebook. 31 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,040 So that was kind of, that was like my hangout, you know, And 32 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,720 then I got censored because I posted something about Hunter 33 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,160 Biden. So that ended up being my 34 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,880 demise. That was back when you know you 35 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:40,560 didn't know what you weren't allowed to say. 36 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:42,280 And so you would just kind. Of say stuff. 37 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,040 And then, yeah, you would be surprised the next day that, oh, 38 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,200 apparently I can't mention, let's see, I had Hunter Biden 39 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,720 and China in the same sentence. And you know, they were like, 40 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,840 sorry, an error has occurred. And I thought, well, that's odd. 41 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,840 And so I kept trying to rearrange the sentence and 42 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:01,320 finally I was able to post the progeny of the Democratic 43 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,520 candidate and a large country in Asia neighboring Vietnam. 44 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,479 And OK, that they allowed me to post. 45 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:10,520 That was like as close as I could get to the statement I 46 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,840 intended. So anyway, so I ditched 47 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,720 Facebook, came over to Twitter, and then thank God for Elon. 48 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,800 He bought Twitter and managed to do what all of our politicians 49 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,000 failed, which is actually giving us some free speech. 50 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,440 Yeah. And in a way, like, in a way, 51 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,360 'cause I know, like a lot of the conservative movement was like 52 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,080 the ones that were getting the brunt end of the stick. 53 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,160 But in a way, I'm glad in hindsight that they didn't 54 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,680 interrupt that politicians didn't step in because at the 55 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,320 end of the day, from an Austrian perspective, the free market 56 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,520 stepped in and solved the problem. 57 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,880 You know, you had, of course, this was an offshoot. 58 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,040 You had Elon stepping in, buying Twitter, and then you had the 59 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,160 rise of Rumble. And I'm a huge fan of Rumble and 60 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,440 it that platform's been growing. We've been doing pretty good 61 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,920 over there. So I mean, I want to get your 62 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:06,160 take on that. Yeah, I think, you know, it was 63 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,600 tricky when we were talking about the censorship because so 64 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,120 I'm an anarcho capitalist. I don't generally look to 65 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,920 government for the solutions. The tricky thing here is that 66 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,800 you were kind of in a situation where you had to build your 67 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:23,120 entire freaking infrastructure, right, Because the activists 68 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,880 were going to go after your payment processors and your, you 69 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,840 know, your web service provider. And I mean just just the entire 70 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,640 thing, your landlord. And so really, it took somebody 71 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,480 with the kind of resources that Elon has in order to 72 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,240 breakthrough it, right? He could basically say, well, 73 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:47,280 fine, you know, if if PayPal doesn't want to sponsor my 74 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,160 platform, then I'll just build my own, right? 75 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:50,880 And that's actually a credible threat. 76 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,720 And so PayPal is not going to screw around with that, or at 77 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,960 least they haven't yet. So in a sense, we got lucky. 78 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,840 I mean, we got the absolute perfect person, which is 79 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:04,760 somebody so freaking rich that he could cut through that, You 80 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,960 know, it was, it was just like a thicket, You know, it's like 81 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,720 it's like if you're going through a strawberry patch that 82 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,400 lasts for miles and just you slash through one and there's 83 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:18,120 another and another and another. So in a sense, we got lucky. 84 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,720 Unfortunately it it it was solved for now. 85 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,480 But I think it's a very real threat in the future that you 86 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:33,160 have this unholy alliance between the tech oligarchy and 87 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,920 governments and largely, you know, it's kind of a protection 88 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,040 racket. So tech including Zuckerberg, 89 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,560 including Dorsey, they had been free speech absolutist. 90 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,480 They they had actually, early on, taken on a lot of hits over 91 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,560 free speech because their business plan was to get 92 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,760 everybody on earth spending all of our free time debating crap 93 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,560 on Facebook or on Twitter. And so they were actually very, 94 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,960 very pro free speech. But I think really Gamergate 95 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,440 kind of planted the seeds of this sort of ongoing protection 96 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,320 racket where governments can threaten all these companies and 97 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,920 at some point they give in, right? 98 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,160 Partly they hire people who are sympathetic to the government's 99 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,880 point of view and partly they just say it's not worth the 100 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,520 fight. You know, we've we've got a 101 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,760 trillion dollar business here. And if we stand up for free 102 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:27,800 speech, you know, if we go back to the old days where you had 103 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,840 the warrant Canaries and all that good stuff, if we go back 104 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:33,640 to those old days, then we risk getting completely shut down. 105 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,000 You know, they have a head on a Pike in the form of parlor, 106 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,480 right. I mean, they showed exactly what 107 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,360 happens to you if you screw with with the rest of them. 108 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:46,440 And so I mean really, if you're the CEO of a public company, you 109 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,360 can't run that risk. You have a fiduciary duty not to 110 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,720 run that risk. So they really created this. 111 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,720 The polite term is corporatist. I don't want to want to get in 112 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,680 any trouble with any F words, but they've really built this 113 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,720 corporatist alliance between government and the tech 114 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,080 oligarchy. And the problem is that that is 115 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:10,160 impenetrable for anybody but the richest person in the world who 116 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,120 has balls of steel, and we got damn lucky that he's there. 117 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,680 But they'll be back. Oh, they and they are back. 118 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:25,880 I mean the attack with Media Matters and attacking. 119 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,960 It's it's endless. The crap they go after on them. 120 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,840 What they just denied there was a $900 million subsidy from the 121 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:37,360 government for providing like rural broadband or something. 122 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:40,360 And Starlink, of course, was in line for that because Starlink 123 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,560 is better than any other solution. 124 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,120 And so the FCC just decided that, Nah, Nah, he's not going 125 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,760 to qualify for that. I mean, he's absolutely endless 126 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,800 with their deploying about him, which gives me some sympathy for 127 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,080 the other cowards in the sense that I mean really they they 128 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:03,080 will destroy you, anybody less than Elon and they would destroy 129 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:04,600 him. Yeah. 130 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,360 And and why do you think this is happening? 131 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,320 So I I have you know, and of course I'm, I'm coming from the, 132 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,480 from the, I've been a bitcoiner I think 1/3 of my life. 133 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,520 So I'm coming from the bitcoiners perspective, which is 134 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,400 I think we're living through this very turbulent time in 135 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,840 history, which I call the disintermediation of information 136 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,960 in the the disintermediation of money. 137 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,840 Disintermediation of information start happening 1st and then the 138 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,520 disintermediation of money is like kind of overlapping it. 139 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,240 And I think there's the government's had so much power 140 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,800 controlling the narrative for so long, but the Internet came 141 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,600 along and you know, people like me and you, we just have a 142 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,280 camera, we have a microphone and all of a sudden we can speak 143 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,760 directly, peer-to-peer with our audience without going through 144 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,480 these so-called intermediaries. And I think it freaks them out. 145 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:56,880 I think it puts the fear of God in them. 146 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,400 Yeah, I think you describe it perfectly. 147 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,200 That's exactly what happened. If we had to put a date on it, 148 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:04,640 it would be Brexit and then Trump. 149 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,040 So 2016, the lesson, you know, they had spent the past, really 150 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,720 the past 100 years just kind of leaning back and racking up 151 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,080 their wins. You know, they launched, it's 152 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,840 called the the the long March through the Institution. 153 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,000 So that was an explicit socialist goal to try to take 154 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,840 over institutions like education or media. 155 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,560 They succeeded wildly. And at that point, you know, if 156 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,679 you're in a democracy and if you own the two industries that can 157 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,960 shape thought, just kick back, you know, every single 158 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,799 generation is going to be more and more indoctrinated. 159 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,480 You know, This is why Republicans in Washington get a 160 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,080 lot of heat, including from people like me for not fighting. 161 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,160 But I do understand why they don't fight because every 162 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,640 narrative is going to go against them. 163 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,480 If you're talking about the debt ceiling limit, for example, that 164 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,400 is entirely going to be framed. You know, for 70% of voters, 165 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,120 that's going to be framed by the left and the left alone. 166 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,560 So anyway, they were living this in in this great world. 167 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:09,600 They could just kick back. They could cash the crony 168 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,120 profits. You know, they could just every 169 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,040 day they would pick up the newspaper and it's just endless 170 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,800 good news. Everything is getting better. 171 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,120 OK That was the world that they got used to for really about 100 172 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,240 years. And, you know, if we put a date 173 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,080 on it, really accelerating probably in the 1960s. 174 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,680 So you're talking about 50 years of just on remitting advances 175 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,560 and then you get Brexit followed soon after by Trump. 176 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:37,960 And you know, those were two events where they deployed the 177 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,880 entire fought industrial complex or sent propaganda industrial 178 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,840 complex towards, you know, rejecting Brexit and rejecting 179 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,120 Trump. And it didn't work. 180 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,280 And I think you're absolutely right, that freaked them out. 181 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,280 They started saying, wait a second, we're not actually going 182 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,560 to win, we're losing. And the reason was the Internet 183 00:09:58,600 --> 00:09:59,760 obviously. Right. 184 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,720 So that allowed you to bypass the gatekeepers. 185 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,760 People like you or I can talk to people directly. 186 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,120 A lot of my videos get a million views. 187 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,720 This is, you know, I think that would make it the top rated show 188 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,320 on MSNBC anyway. You know and and what what I 189 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:21,320 shoot on an iPhone with a with a mic and anybody can do this. 190 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,320 Like, I've had dozens of people reach out and I've kind of 191 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:26,640 mentored them and taught them how to do it. 192 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,080 And OK, you know, you got to do the sound key detail. 193 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,680 If anybody's listening and wants to start doing videos, don't 194 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:34,320 worry about the video. Nobody cares. 195 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:35,800 Nobody cares about the video quality. 196 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,560 I'm not actually that good looking sound. 197 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,880 The sound has to be perfect, all right? 198 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,440 If the sound is not perfect, people will turn it off because 199 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,240 it's unbearable. You yourself do this, so put 200 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:47,760 yourself in the eyes of the audience. 201 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,840 But at any rate, that ability to bypass the gatekeepers, right? 202 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,800 They'd put all their eggs in the gatekeepers, OK, they had they, 203 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,360 you know, in their long March through the gatekeepers and then 204 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,520 we just, I mean we we completely bypassed it, right? 205 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,000 So we did for information. Well, the Internet did for 206 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,760 information. Really. 207 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,200 What Bitcoin does for money, right? 208 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,120 Just completely disintermediates, right. 209 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,360 It makes it a relationship, like a peer-to-peer relationship as 210 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,720 opposed to the sort of broadcast relationship where it can be 211 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,120 censored at the centre. So absolutely, they freaked out. 212 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,560 They put everything they had in the censorship. 213 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:27,400 They they will not give that up. It's going to take I think 214 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,120 ultimately the Supreme Court, Elon has been fighting, he's 215 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,200 been absolutely astounding. But you know, there's many 216 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,720 countries where this is happening. 217 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,640 Elon is one man. He does not have the resources. 218 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,080 You know, if you look at what happened in Brazil for example, 219 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,960 where questioning the election got people thrown in prison, I 220 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,880 think it was 20 year terms for questioning the election, doing 221 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,400 nothing further than that. So I mean the the censorship is 222 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,720 on the March in every country on earth. 223 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,080 Elon is fighting the good fight. But ultimately the Supreme Court 224 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,080 of the United States I think is going to be the most important 225 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,560 institution and what it has to do is to stand up and defend the 226 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:12,560 1st Amendment. If it can do that, then, you 227 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,480 know, as long as you have free speech in the USI think that is 228 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,960 a kernel for the rest of the world to look to. 229 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:23,920 Fundamentally, there's really only one good ruling document, 230 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,520 one good sort of legal system in terms of censorship. 231 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,200 There's only one good one in the entire Earth, and that is the 232 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,680 United States. Everything sucks in the rest of 233 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,840 the world. So a lot, I think fundamentally 234 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,720 is riding on the Supreme Court. I love what Elon's doing. 235 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,840 I think a lot of what he's doing is winning people over to our 236 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,120 cause. So I do think that we have more 237 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,000 and more converts, like more and more voters who think that 238 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,720 censorship is a big issue. But fundamentally, I think it's 239 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,000 kind of come to the Supreme Court. 240 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,520 You know, if if you look just a couple years ago, you had even 241 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:01,400 conservatives writing papers. I remember there was one in 2019 242 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,680 where they were calling it so-called censorship or, you 243 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,920 know, they would say people who who feel that their censor or 244 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:11,560 imagine that. And I mean it was, it was 245 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,160 relentless back then, right? That was long after Alex Jones 246 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,520 got kicked off. That was long after the the 247 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,080 whole witch hunt, right, Because that that really started 248 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,720 immediately after Trump. So they had chased all these 249 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,360 people off. We all had to be careful what we 250 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,160 were saying. You couldn't, you know, quote 251 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,120 Thomas Jefferson about the, you know, tree of Liberty. 252 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,800 That would be, you know, that would be bannable. 253 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,120 That's completely insane. Thomas Frickin Jefferson. 254 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,120 But even conservatives, you know, they were calling it 255 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,960 alleged and so-called and imagined. 256 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,360 So, you know, I think we've come a long ways now. 257 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,680 You know, if you talk about censorship, nobody shakes their 258 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,520 head and kind of looks at you like, well, maybe maybe just 259 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,320 nobody watches your stuff, man. OK. 260 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,880 People, I think widely the majority of the population 261 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,400 certainly on the right and I think even in the middle they 262 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,120 accept that there is a lot of censorship going on that this is 263 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,280 material in terms of public policy. 264 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,960 So I do think that we're advancing but but I think it's a 265 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,440 long road from here and hopefully the Supreme Court's 266 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,200 going to weigh in. They just took up a couple cases 267 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,440 that they might. Yeah. 268 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,720 And it and, you know, to to add to your point, but the long 269 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,840 walk, you know, through the institutions and I'm originally 270 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,200 from Venezuela, right. So I saw collectivist ideology 271 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,000 destroy the country. And I remember the early days of 272 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,760 Trump. I was like, this looks familiar. 273 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,320 It's almost as if America is going through a cultural 274 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,160 revolution light, right. I think it was Granchi that was 275 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,720 responsible for that. And then it was. 276 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,560 And then the the tactics really, they're, they're taking a cue 277 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,240 from Saul Alinsky and Rules for Radicals, right? 278 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,240 Which is whatever, Whichever way your opponent reacts, you win. 279 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,760 In every situation, your goal is just to get your opponent to 280 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,680 react. And then you just see people 281 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,240 walking into that trap over and over and over again, 'cause 282 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,000 they're just not worth versed in that philosophy. 283 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,080 But I I would agree with you, they were extremely successful 284 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,400 in this and in a way that honestly is a tragedy, right? 285 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,320 Which is you see my generation and the younger generation, 286 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,640 they're blaming capitalism for a lot of these woes. 287 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,520 And they're like they're asking for more collectivism, they're 288 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,160 asking for more government intervention. 289 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,960 And it's the government intervention that caused all 290 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,080 these woes in in in the 1st place. 291 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,040 Now my question to you is, and I, I I think I had the honor of 292 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,920 talking to Seifidine about this. I don't think that collectivist 293 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,960 ideologies are politically viable under a sound money 294 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,040 standard under Bitcoin, right. I don't think it's possible. 295 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,000 And the reason I say that is you take away the most effective, 296 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,120 what the most effective method they have of wealth, wealth 297 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,840 redistribution, which their ideology depends upon, which is 298 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,320 the wealth redistribution mechanism of inflation. 299 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,520 So if you take that away, what do they do? 300 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,040 You know, how do they, how do they pay the right people? 301 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,640 How do they continue to grow the administrative state that keeps 302 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:10,640 them in power in the first place? 303 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,600 Yeah, I mean you can certainly still do it. 304 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:20,360 The Inca empire was communist, it was totalitarian regime, you 305 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,280 know, and they they actually had a Fiat money, I believe. 306 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,000 I believe it was based on threads, but at any rate, it is 307 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,080 certainly possible without control of the money, but it is 308 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,160 certainly a lot harder, right? You've had various times in 309 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,640 history, even under gold standards, where countries have 310 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,120 nonetheless gone totalitarian. Now generally they get off the 311 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,640 gold standard as one of the first things they do, right? 312 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,120 And so you have to kind of zoom in and and see the specific 313 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,480 timing point is that you can get power even in a commodity 314 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,320 standard system. However, once you get 315 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,640 totalitarian power, you know, you have kind of this honeymoon 316 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,960 period where you know, you, you, you raid the warehouses and you 317 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,640 eat up and you know, everything's free. 318 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:09,720 And at that point everybody says, my God, the socialists 319 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,040 were right. It does work. 320 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:12,720 Look at that. Everybody's got free food. 321 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,280 And of course, you know, at some point you've eaten up the 322 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,240 warehouses. Typically you've got like a year 323 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,040 or two of stock just kind of lying around. 324 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,440 So once you've eaten up the seed corn at that point, it quote, UN 325 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:28,319 quote goes wrong. So you know, and and that's kind 326 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:32,840 of like the history of how these things work and when that 327 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,800 happens in a commodity system, right. 328 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,640 So when a commodity system goes communist, typically you'll have 329 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,600 that kind of grace period where everything is wonderful and then 330 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,960 the hungry times start hitting, they start losing public support 331 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,520 and that's the point that they typically go inflationary. 332 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,680 But having said, you know, your broader point, that money 333 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:59,960 enables the authoritarian or totalitarian regimes, I think 334 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:03,080 that's absolutely true. You know, if you sit down and 335 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,280 and work out the numbers, I would guess that about half of 336 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,360 the federal government's ability to capture power in the US has 337 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:14,000 been because of the Federal Reserve. 338 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,160 There's a couple mechanisms for that. 339 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,440 But fundamentally, if you control an organization that can 340 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,720 print up bidding tickets that you can use to take every single 341 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,680 thing in society, including to make people work for you. 342 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,960 OK, So you can use those, those, you know, confetti, that Fiat 343 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,320 money to harness all of society's resources. 344 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,600 It it, it's actually kind of surprising that that doesn't 345 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,080 automatically lead to a totalitarian outcome. 346 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,840 Maybe it does. Maybe it's just with a delay, 347 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,480 which is, you know, we are the ones who are trying to delay it. 348 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,240 So, you know, I think the short of it is that if you are in a 349 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,640 Fiat regime, you are nearly guaranteed to ultimately end up 350 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,840 in an authoritarian system. On the other hand, if you have a 351 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,600 commodity based money system, whether it's gold or Bitcoin, 352 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,200 you will have taken one of their main tools away. 353 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,640 You would have taken at least half of their power and at that 354 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,640 point you have a much better fighting chance. 355 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,960 So then you know, then we move to the next sort of question in 356 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,680 the equation, which is you know, the ability to control the 357 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,640 narrative and and and that gets into some of the Internet stuff 358 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,720 that we were just talking about. But for sure getting rid of the 359 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,480 Fiat I think radically evens up the game. 360 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,680 And you know if we zoom into particular moments, so if we had 361 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:41,480 to put a date on when the world started going downhill, I think 362 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,600 I'd put that around 19131914. So really the lead in to World 363 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,280 War One. I think Safety Dean has talked 364 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:52,200 about this as well and I suspect that he also tags that period as 365 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,600 as basically the beginning of the crisis. 366 00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:01,120 And in that period, you know the, the, I mean the money 367 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:03,800 obviously was a huge enabler of that. 368 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,880 OK. I question, you know if we 369 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:15,720 didn't have the Federal Reserve. Would would the European allies, 370 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,440 France and Britain, would they have felt like they could count 371 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,640 on the US to enter the war, right? 372 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,000 Because The thing is, once you have Fiat money, you can hide 373 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,320 the cost of things like war, OK? People don't have to see it 374 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,640 because you can just print it up, right? 375 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,280 So you can hide the cost for long enough to the war, for the 376 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,200 war to go on to the point where you've got casualties. 377 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,920 People are angry now they're they're angry at the Huns who 378 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,080 are rampaging across Belgium. So in a sense, Fiat acts as kind 379 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,600 of a venture capitalist for a lot of these crises. 380 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,280 OK, so saying that, Fiat takes away half the power sketched 381 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,240 large. But if we zoom in to specific 382 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,560 episodes, like that key episode, the beginning of World War One, 383 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,680 I think Fiat. Without Fiat, that war would not 384 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,440 have happened. There's no reason for the war. 385 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,760 Everybody at the time said this is so weird, there's no reason 386 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,280 for the war. Why are they fighting over 387 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,320 Sarajevo? Who cares? 388 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,520 It was this little backwater, nothing. 389 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,680 Nobody really cared that much. Everybody understood that 390 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,920 Austria had an emotional reason why they had to do something 391 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,520 about it. And beyond that, it was it was 392 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,040 kind of like everybody wanted to pick a fight. 393 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:21,720 Why did everybody want to pick a fight? 394 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,520 That's not normal. And I think that was really Fiat 395 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,560 money that did that. You know, COVID, I think is the 396 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,440 same story. So, you know, if you sort of do 397 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,360 a thought experiment and you ask, all right, COVID hits, we 398 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,680 have a commodity system, whether it's gold or whether it's 399 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,600 Bitcoin. And some junior bureaucrat shows 400 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,480 up the planning meeting, he goes, OK, I got a crazy idea, 401 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,880 we're going to shut down the entire economy. 402 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,440 All right. Tat, I know taxes are going to 403 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,640 plunge, right? We might lose half tax revenue, 404 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,760 but that's OK because we can just lay off the government 405 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,960 workers. Right. 406 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,760 So he would have been fired, right? 407 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,560 That would have been it for him. He would have been exiled out 408 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,800 to, you know, Alaska or Guam. In fact, what they had was every 409 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,400 country in the world knew that they had a gigantic money 410 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,920 printer, and they knew that if they talked about dead grandmas, 411 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,680 then no central banker would have the balls to stand up to 412 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,480 them. And so when that junior banker 413 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,000 came in or that that junior advisor, they all said, well, 414 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,520 that's, you know, he could say let's shut down the economy and 415 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,600 we'll just have Jerome Powell print up the money. 416 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,600 And they all say, well, that's a fascinating idea. 417 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:31,560 So you know, I think if you zoom into every crisis, the vast 418 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,960 majority of them only became a crisis because governments had 419 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,400 access to Fiat money. I mean and I completely agree 420 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,720 and and it it if you kind of break it down and and safe he 421 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,160 did do a great job on this in the Fiat standard listening to 422 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:54,040 the audiobook not too long ago. But my question to you, Peter is 423 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,120 like and and you know, I think Michael Saylor has said this, I 424 00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,960 said this to my girlfriend when I was super excited about 425 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,240 Bitcoin. I was like, it's the best money. 426 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,640 This is the most soundest money. And then Michael Saylor, I 427 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,200 remember he was asked this question and then I connected 428 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,320 the dots. He was asked this question on 429 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,520 the Coin Stories podcast. Shout out Natalie Brunell. 430 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,080 And Natalie asked him like, hey, what keeps you up at night? 431 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,000 And sailor said the exact same thing that my girlfriend now my 432 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,520 wife said, which is like people just don't care about sound 433 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,640 money. And that part worries me a 434 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,640 little bit. And I'm going to kind of mix in 435 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,840 what, you know, the recent events that's happening in the 436 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,880 US where Elizabeth Warren's bill that would essentially kill 437 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,760 Bitcoin in the United States continues to gather momentum. 438 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,520 And people are just kind of like they're they're distracted, 439 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,960 they're distracted by the bread and circuses, so to speak. 440 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,840 So does that worry you at all? Right. 441 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,600 Because, you know, Austria and Khan, I agree. 442 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,800 It's like we haven't figured out, you know, it's sound money. 443 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:00,000 The money's broken, but I still see so many people asleep until 444 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,160 the money breaks. And then you'll get a situation 445 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,960 like Argentina and something like that. 446 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,920 But the money hasn't broken yet, so therefore the incentive isn't 447 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,560 there for people to seek an alternative. 448 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,880 What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, correct. 449 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,280 And you know, in a way that's that that's just how it works. 450 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,440 You know, people don't worry about something if they can't 451 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,800 see it, you know? So I agree with you. 452 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,960 In the past couple of years we've had a lot of people wake 453 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,720 up to inflation. It had seemed very academic and 454 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,200 remote. 1970s was the last time that we had double digit 455 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,680 inflation. That was a long time ago. 456 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,160 And so I think that a lot of people have woken up, but at the 457 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,720 same time we're up against 12 years of indoctrination and 458 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,600 specifically indoctrination of children. 459 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,480 You know, if you look at like the Khmer Rouge, which 460 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,080 specifically aimed to indoctrinate children, much like 461 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,520 public schools do, it's it's very, very hard to break them 462 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,360 out of that. And generally there does need to 463 00:24:55,360 --> 00:25:00,440 be some kind of crisis at, at which point, you know, that's 464 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,960 kind of Showtime and we see whether the frog jumps. 465 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,960 I believe I'm optimistic that when if a crisis comes that the 466 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,560 American people will jump. Many other countries have not, 467 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,280 unfortunately, if the crisis comes and people sleepwalk into 468 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,880 it or the system is too difficult to change by the time 469 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,560 the crisis hits, and so people get angry, but it's just kind of 470 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,760 dissipated. So you know, that's that's 471 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,280 really going to be Showtime if a crisis does hit. 472 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,480 My, you know, what I far prefer to do is what people like you or 473 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,240 I do, which is tell the frog that the water is boiling. 474 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,240 Put a thermometer in them and show them the thermometer. 475 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,280 Ask them, do you remember? Do you remember 20 minutes ago 476 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,560 when you felt chilly and you don't feel chilly anymore? 477 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,280 OK, so, you know, trying to get people to see what's coming 478 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,440 before the crisis actually hits because once the crisis hits, 479 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,840 that opens the window for governments to impose controls 480 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,200 that can make it difficult for people to fix it when all of a 481 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,080 sudden everybody wakes up. If you take Venezuela, I'm sure 482 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,920 that there was some point where pretty much everybody knew that 483 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,240 the system was broken. I'm sure the government was 484 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,040 talking about, you know, capitalist plots and and, you 485 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,160 know, US, CIA this and that. But, you know, given how bad 486 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,000 things got, I'm sure there was a moment where the the Venezuelan 487 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,000 people were ripe to hear a message that maybe they need to 488 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,760 reform the system. You know, the kind of message 489 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,520 the Argentinian people just voted on. 490 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,400 But I also imagine that by the time it got that far, it was too 491 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,400 hard to change the system, right? 492 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,800 It was too hard to set up a political party, arbitrary 493 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,120 arrests, you get all kinds of things that are pretty standard 494 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:43,480 once you get to that stage of it. 495 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,640 So I do think on the right, there's a lot of people who are 496 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,200 almost cheering for the crisis acceleration is because their 497 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,920 assumption is that once we get to the crisis, the frog wakes up 498 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,560 and then the long nightmare ends. 499 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,160 But I do think there's a caveat on that that, you know, there 500 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,480 are many, many countries where it fails and it gets worse, 501 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,960 Venezuela being an example. And, you know, governments will 502 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,880 see that coming and they will take measures to try to prevent 503 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,560 that. You know, I think January 6th 504 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,600 was essentially, you know, part of laying the groundwork for 505 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,880 that kind of a system where if if we get to the point where the 506 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,480 water is boiling, they want to have a legal infrastructure that 507 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,800 they can stop people from doing much about it. 508 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,320 Yeah. And and the the January 6th 509 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,120 thing was fascinating because you know and and again this goes 510 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,600 to I think this is the Frankfurt School which was repressive 511 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,920 tolerance, right. Which is you had movements 512 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,880 protest from you know we we we tried to stay as as politically 513 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,880 neutral on this show Peter. So we say collectivists, let's 514 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,280 say the collectivist of and I know what you, I know you know 515 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,640 what I'm talking about. So the collectivists, they put 516 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,600 on certain types of protests, but that's fine. 517 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,680 You guys are OK. You guys are in the capital 518 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,960 protesting for certain things, that's OK. 519 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,960 But when there is a political movement from the more 520 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,440 individualistic side, it's repressed, right, It's 521 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,080 demonized. These people are a threat to 522 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,760 national security, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 523 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,360 And it's it's almost in your face. 524 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:20,000 And unless you really kind of understudy, unless you really 525 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,040 understand and study the tactics as they're using, it's really 526 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,440 not quite obvious to you. And they're on purpose, they're 527 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,160 they're meant to demoralize you. They're meant to take away all 528 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,400 hope in order to achieve a certain, in order to achieve a 529 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,880 certain end goal. And and that comes in that, 530 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,920 that's a segue to my next question, which is I think 531 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:48,360 Bitcoin is not compatible with current US sanction policy. 532 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,960 I think Bitcoin is not compatible with the way that 533 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,520 governments worldwide have weaponized the money. 534 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,880 And I think that there is going to be an inevitable clash 535 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,400 between the two. You have an open monetary 536 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,880 network where you can sign up, download a wallet, you don't 537 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,040 need a KYC. And then you have a system where 538 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,320 it's completely, even though it's not really, you know, the 539 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,520 AML system, it's not really that effective. 540 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,400 So what's that clash look like to you? 541 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,320 You know, what's your take? Yeah, I think more than a clash 542 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,800 in the near term anyway. I think it's closer to lifeboat, 543 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,760 you know, if you sort of zoom in to the competitive situation. 544 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,440 So if you take sanctions for example, So the way that you can 545 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,400 sanction somebody with AUS dollar is that you can 546 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,840 effectively stop them from using the dollar. 547 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,320 The thing is, you know Bitcoin has a quirk where you can 548 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,480 identify wallets. And so assuming that there's 549 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,160 some real world Nexus that is ultimately exposed to the US 550 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,280 government, then you know if a Chinese company is exporting 551 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,680 product to, you know, whatever Egypt there, there tends to be 552 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,320 some kind of Nexus there like some some paper trail. 553 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,360 And so there are a lot of situations where I think that 554 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,480 Bitcoin directly threaten sanctions less than it might 555 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,760 seem on the face. Certainly for for sort of Gray 556 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,640 market transactions which don't leave a paper trail anyway, 557 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,000 that's true. But then for a lot of those 558 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,960 transactions, they also managed to use the dollar one way or the 559 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,960 other through bribes and so on. So I I don't think there's so 560 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,760 much a direct clash. I think it's more like we are 561 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:33,440 draining, you know the explosive out of the OR the air out of the 562 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,840 balloon to use less kinetic terminology where you know 563 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,480 you'll have a lot of commerce that will migrate over to 564 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,280 Bitcoin. And then if there's a large 565 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,600 amount of commerce in that area let's say I don't know, content 566 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:52,800 or or even export import, then you could get more transactions 567 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,800 making use of that in order to avoid sanctions. 568 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,800 But I think it's it's it's not quite as direct as it might seem 569 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,480 on the face. I think the larger issue and you 570 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,160 know the thing that has people like Elizabeth Warren in a bunch 571 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:14,040 is that sort of head on substitute or conflict between 572 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,840 Bitcoin and financial markets. So the financial oligarchy, 573 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,120 every single country on earth, if you go to the capital city 574 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,160 and you look for the tallest skyscrapers, chances are it's a 575 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,920 bank, right? Every so often you'll have like 576 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,400 a resource, you know, company because whatever, Malaysia or 577 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,000 something. But generally speaking, almost 578 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,760 all the skyscrapers are banks. Banks are fantastically 579 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,320 profitable, as you would expect in a crony Fiat system. 580 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,880 They have enormous power everywhere. 581 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,800 So more than sanctions per SE, I think that that's that's really 582 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,160 where the battle comes in. I think that's who Elizabeth 583 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,480 Warren is carrying water for. It's not doing it for the 584 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,240 Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve, they donate 585 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,080 money but they don't donate the politicians. 586 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,720 I think she's carrying it for the banks and that's, that's, I 587 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,520 think, the grand battle. Yeah, And and and it's 588 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,360 interesting, 'cause you would think it's an she, you know, 589 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,800 when the Occupy Wall Street movement was a thing, she was 590 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,360 like the main proponent of that. When he talks. 591 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,360 And now? His donations speak loud. 592 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,640 And they do, don't they? And then she gets Jamie Dylan. 593 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,200 Go ahead. Yeah. 594 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,600 I mean, going back to the earlier discussion of kind of 595 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,240 why things broke this way, I did not expect that to happen, all 596 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,200 right? I I did not expect the largest 597 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,680 companies in the world to make common cause with the 598 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,160 socialists, all right? I assumed that they would go 599 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,760 with the sort of soft socialism of the US Republican Party. 600 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,840 You know, we want low taxes, we want, we want light regulation. 601 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,920 And what what, what surprised me anyway, is that, boy, they just, 602 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,880 they just went all the way over. So, you know, I assume what 603 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,320 they're thinking is that with enough campaign cash, you can 604 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,200 kind of tame the beast, right? So, you know, you can put people 605 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,240 like AOC or, you know, you can, I don't know who are some of the 606 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,680 more extreme anyway, the squad. You can put them in a box and 607 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,360 then, you know, you can make enough friends with Elizabeth 608 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,120 Warren and Nancy Pelosi that you can basically disarm the 609 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,280 socialists from within. I assume that's what that's what 610 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,960 they're aiming for. But anyway, I was surprised by 611 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,560 that. I assumed that, you know, once 612 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,160 money really made its way into politics and we got this sort of 613 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:30,080 corporate corporatist union of state and company, which again 614 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,520 has an F word that becomes an ISM. 615 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,400 But we have to avoid that word. I I didn't think that they would 616 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,120 make common cause with the socialists. 617 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,320 Yeah, I mean it's it's almost. I mean, but this isn't that what 618 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,280 always happens though that's that's kind of, you know like I 619 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,280 forget what the. In 1930s Germany they went the 620 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,320 other direction, so they took the lesser of two evils and they 621 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,080 teamed up with the National Socialists as opposed to the 622 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,760 International Socialists. OK, OK, fine, fine. 623 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,200 But Peter, we all know that it's both. 624 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,640 It's two sides of the same coin. They're. 625 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,240 Almost. They're almost identical. 626 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:08,320 I have to put. Have to go full. 627 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,000 I have to go full screen. So if you go like all the way. 628 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,120 I don't know if I'm left right now, but if you go all the way 629 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,280 left, there's communist and then there's you go a couple steps to 630 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,920 the right, there's fascists and then you go all the way to the 631 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,280 other side, then you get like individual individualists and 632 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,639 libertarian and all that. So I, I, I, I and I mean and 633 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:28,760 it's in the name. It's in the name what the party 634 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,120 that was in power in the 30s, they put it in the name. 635 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,520 That word socialist. Yeah, yeah, literally, right. 636 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:39,440 So you know, if we put them like if we array them on a scale of M 637 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,800 cap to communism, so OK, these are random numbers. 638 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,880 Don't quote me on this. The German communists at that 639 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,440 time in the 1930s, let's call them a 60, and then the National 640 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,560 Socialists were like A50 in terms of their progression 641 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,719 towards communism. I mean, they were almost the 642 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,640 same freaking party. But The thing is, the 643 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,120 capitalists chose the lesser of two evils from their 644 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,600 perspective, right. The main difference being that 645 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,360 the National Socialists were OK with companies running their, 646 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,920 you know, making profits, getting nice, take home pay, 647 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,840 keeping the original staff. Nobody has to go up against the 648 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,440 wall. What they said is, look, you can 649 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,360 do whatever you want as long as you obey. 650 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,640 OK, Now the obey, you know, ultimately got real close to 651 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,760 communism. But anyway, so, you know, in 652 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,880 that grand scheme of socialism, they were slightly less 653 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,040 socialist from company's perspective than the communists. 654 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:35,920 And so the companies went with the lesser of two evils. 655 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,480 What surprised me in the US and I think really around the world, 656 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,400 and, you know, maybe this is the genius of Klaus Schwab, but what 657 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,120 surprised me was that, you know, generally the main parties in 658 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,720 every country are socialists. I can't think of a country at 659 00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:52,760 the moment where the main party is not socialist. 660 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,680 They're just two flavors of socialism. 661 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,000 But what surprised me is that these big companies went with 662 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,440 the the worst of the two. They didn't go with the lesser 663 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,880 of two evils. They want the greater of two 664 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,200 evils. And I think, you know, I don't 665 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,400 know that they plan this out in their heads, but I think 666 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,640 ultimately they've put a bet that they can bribe the the, you 667 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:21,040 know, worst of two evils into at least punishing them last. 668 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,960 I'm trying to avoid violent words. 669 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,280 We used to be able to say a lot of things we can't, but anyway, 670 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,760 they want to be punished last by these people. 671 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,480 But that that really surprised me. 672 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,680 I assumed when the corporatists made their play to take over the 673 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,440 country that they would go with the soft socialists and not the 674 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,520 hard socialists. But of course. 675 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,640 See people like Elizabeth Warren I mean so far their strategy is 676 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,840 paying off. You know I'm I'm I'm very 677 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,640 impressed. It's working out just the way 678 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,160 they wanted where people like Elizabeth Warren are now going 679 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,760 from, you know anti Wall Street to you know discovering how 680 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,960 important it has to have a, you know stable financial system 681 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,120 that has no outside interference. 682 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,440 So I mean kudos to them boy. It's it's It's worked like a 683 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,680 charm so far. Yeah, it's it's it's crazy if 684 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,200 if, if you haven't been paying attention, if you're not, well 685 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,840 read on these things, you know you're it's it's to me, it's 686 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,600 obvious. And then perhaps it's 'cause I 687 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,440 immigrated and I came here and, you know, and maybe you see 688 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,840 things, and maybe that's why Miami-Dade County voted a 689 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,920 certain direction versus every other metropolitan city in the 690 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,200 US, 'cause you're like, I've seen this. 691 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,240 I I spent most of my life out of the US, so I grew up in Germany, 692 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:37,400 Japan, about five years in Mexico. 693 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:42,080 So it's the same like once once you've been outside long enough 694 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,640 and then you sort of see the comparisons with, you know, 695 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,560 places like Indonesia or Argentina, it it's really clear 696 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,880 what's happening. And you know, in fairness, a lot 697 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,480 of Americans now are waking up to it. 698 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,680 I think Americans imagined it could never ever happen here, 699 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,280 right? We felt protected partly by the 700 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,760 civil society, partly by the Constitution. 701 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,760 But the past couple of years, I think I've woken up a ton of 702 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,800 people. And then the economic problems 703 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,800 are they're waking up a lot of people who may not have been 704 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,680 open to the idea that we have fundamental problems, but now 705 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,280 they are right. They're starting to question the 706 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,040 system. And once you question the 707 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,960 system, you start listening to both sides. 708 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,320 And once people start listening to both sides, I say this in all 709 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:28,960 honesty, our arguments are better. 710 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:31,120 I mean across the board. You know, if you look at the 711 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,840 kind of just look at the kind of engagement, OK, like when CNN 712 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,080 does an article and it gets a lot of view because CNN has, you 713 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,920 know, bought audience over the years. 714 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,320 This is all media companies by audience. 715 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,280 If you do that in our gig, you're you're a fraud. 716 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,560 But anyway, you know the New York Times, CNN, all of them 717 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,360 bought their audiences. And when you look at the kind of 718 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,360 reaction they get when they say things, nobody's people see it 719 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,880 because they bought this audience, but nobody listens to 720 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:00,920 them. Nobody cares about it. 721 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:01,880 People don't sit there and debate. 722 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,840 I mean it's it's it's a tiny amount of engagement that 723 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,800 they're getting. Nobody cares about their 724 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,560 arguments. Even the people who are already, 725 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,480 like they're installed, bought, base, don't care about it. 726 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,040 So, you know, if you've got somebody who's politically up 727 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,760 for grabs, OK, they're like a political independent and 728 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,360 they're pissed off about the cost of living, all right. 729 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,880 And so they start questioning things, to start looking at 730 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,440 different narratives. They're going to see one article 731 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,920 from CNN and then they're going to see another article by the 732 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,400 kind of free speech people that we have on our side. 733 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,160 It's no competition. Of course, they're going to come 734 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,560 over to our side. So, I mean, we are winning 735 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,000 hearts and minds, but at the same time, you know, we are up 736 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,800 against that sense that propaganda. 737 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,480 You know, you've got the 12 years of propaganda, you've got 738 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,320 new kids running through it every single day. 739 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,720 You got new ones coming out who, you know, we have to deprogram 740 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:59,400 as if they're in a cult, you know, So even as we win, we're 741 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,240 still like, it can look like we're just treading water 742 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:06,520 because they have so many of these institutional benefits. 743 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,080 Yeah, 100%. And then once the, you know, 744 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,600 like once, like what I noticed is once they started losing, 745 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,360 essentially they implemented really the open border strategy, 746 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,320 right. So you kind of flood the system, 747 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,760 get people, you know, hooked so to speak, to that free, that 748 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,680 sweet, sweet, sweet free money. And then all of a sudden you 749 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,360 have a whole new block of voters. 750 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,520 This has been done so many times. 751 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,960 It's it just hasn't been done here. 752 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,280 So like, it's very shocking for it to happen here. 753 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,360 But Opti and I and my producer who's hanging in the back, we, 754 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:41,880 we've been talking about this for quite a while. 755 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,640 I'm really optimistic for the US for three reasons, right? 756 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,560 Versus the 1st Amendment, which is getting badgered. 757 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,000 Second is the Second Amendment and then the sovereignty of the 758 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,080 individual states, which creates competition between the states, 759 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:57,200 right. So yeah. 760 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,800 Which, yeah, yeah. You could summarize that as the 761 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,320 10th Amendment, which constrains the federal government to a 762 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,400 very, very small number of things and everything else 763 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,160 belongs to the states. And then the states can be the 764 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,760 laboratory of democracy and they can experiment with all kinds of 765 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,680 things. By the way, the 10th Amendment 766 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,800 does not give the federal government control over money. 767 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:21,240 So that would mean that both, I mean, any kind of financial 768 00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:23,840 management that Treasury does is not constitutional. 769 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,400 That's that's that's not delegated. 770 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,640 And of course, the Federal Reserve would be 771 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,000 unconstitutional. It's not delegated according to 772 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,000 the 10th Amendment. If the power is not literally 773 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,000 listed in the Constitution, then the federal government is not 774 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,080 allowed to do it, and there's certainly nothing in there about 775 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,240 printing Fiat money. Yeah, yeah. 776 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:45,720 But they got away with it anyways. 777 00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:49,120 And someone in the comments mentioned this about 1913. 778 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,320 They said wasn't that a federal income tax implemented? 779 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,320 Yes, it was implemented the same year as the Federal Reserve was 780 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:03,440 was created or you know, began. That's not a coincidence, right? 781 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,160 Yeah, no, that was really their moment. 782 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,480 I mean, that was the, you know, miracle year for socialists 783 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,920 really all across the West. That's when they captured it. 784 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,800 One of my favorite if you ever watched Downton Abbey, which my 785 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,640 wife loves it, which means that I love it, or at any rate, I 786 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,560 have to watch it. And what's funny about it, So 787 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,640 it's the series and it spans multiple years. 788 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,560 And you know, a bunch of the episodes are before World War 789 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,000 One and then a bunch of them are after. 790 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,840 And I think it's just, it's just great for sort of showing people 791 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,240 how the world changed. World War One was, I mean, it 792 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:43,080 was the most transformational. I can't think of anything, 793 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,040 certainly not, I don't know, maybe in a millennia, maybe not. 794 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,160 Since the Mongol conquest, it has been such a massive change. 795 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,680 Everything changed. It gutted the traditional 796 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,240 institutions and replaced them with government versions of it, 797 00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:02,640 whether that was education, the, you know, moral suasion that 798 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,160 used to be handled by the church. 799 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,960 So that was independent from the government, OK. 800 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,080 It captured all these things. And fundamentally it was the 801 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,360 Bismarck plan, right? That was Audubon Bismarck in 802 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,600 Prussia. His idea was that you want the 803 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,960 state to take over all of these social institutions so that the 804 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:26,120 state makes itself necessary and so that, you know, individual 805 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,440 like people don't rise up against the state because they 806 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,160 need the state, right. The state is paying their 807 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,400 pension or they work for the state, whatever it is. 808 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,840 So I mean it was, it was a very intentional plan he implemented 809 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,480 in Prussia and then World War One was really when they managed 810 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,960 to implement it really across the West. 811 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,200 Yeah, no. And I I think you you, you hit 812 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,520 the nail on the head. So, OK, so we've been talking 813 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,800 about some dark, dark things, dark subjects, right. 814 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,840 You know a bit of history this collectivist take over, put it 815 00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:02,560 nicely and let's talk about you know what Corey says, CEO of 816 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,840 Swan, the bright orange future, which I think that Bitcoin is. 817 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,320 Bitcoin and the Internet, both things play a very critical part 818 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,000 in that in that future. So how long do you think this 819 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,160 transition will take? I think we'll win. 820 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,320 The reason that I think we'll win, Peter, is because I think 821 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,600 bitcoins incentives are greater than than anything they have in 822 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:26,960 my opinion. I think they're going to rely on 823 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,120 coercion, but my money's on incentives in in, in my opinion. 824 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,480 So how long is this transition going to take? 825 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,880 Do you think bitcoins going to win? 826 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,640 Is it is it a foretold? Like, you know, just check that 827 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,360 box or do we need to fight peacefully, right YouTube Fight 828 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:44,800 peacefully. It's a metaphor. 829 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,720 What? What are your thoughts, Spar? 830 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,120 Sparring between friends. So I think there are two 831 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,880 dynamics. One of them is Fiat versus 832 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,240 commodity and the other one is gold versus Bitcoin. 833 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,160 OK. So if we ask is Bitcoin going to 834 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,160 win? I think those are the two 835 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,760 dynamics, and I'll take the simpler of them, which is gold 836 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,800 versus Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin is fundamentally 837 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,440 superior to gold. It has actually better supply 838 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,880 dynamics. You know, gold is new, gold is 839 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,880 dug up. And so that's an inflationary 840 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,440 impetus. And that's pretty standard at 841 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,240 about a percent and a half a year, actually amazingly like 842 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:26,520 over centuries and all kinds of different technology in the 843 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,200 industrial revolution. All the rest of it, gold just 844 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,640 marches like clockwork, about a percent and a half a year. 845 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,840 And Bitcoin, meanwhile, you know, of course it's it's going 846 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,480 to have a lower inflation rate than that. 847 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,560 And, you know, you have different supply caveats to 848 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:42,840 gold. Like what if we find the 849 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:48,200 asteroid that's made of gold and Elon can mine it with robots? 850 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,040 Or, you know, what if they figure out a way to extract gold 851 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,360 from seawater, which, you know, it's been like a perpetual 852 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,200 motion machine that cranks have been trying for a long time. 853 00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,800 But fundamentally, there's a there's a lot of gold in the 854 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,160 ocean just floating around. You go to the beach, you when 855 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,160 you come out of the water, you've got gold on you. 856 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,000 There's a bunch of it. And so anyway, there are these 857 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,280 kind of weird little quirks to gold where the supply dynamics 858 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,360 are not as good. And then the other one, of 859 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,400 course, is that Bitcoin can't be seized the way the gold can, 860 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,840 right? So I I love gold dearly. 861 00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:26,000 But if you are talking to, like if you're a gold bug and you're 862 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,160 talking to a paper money bro and after you got done explaining 863 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,520 how amazing gold is, he's going to ask you, OK, if it's so 864 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,440 super, why does no country use gold? 865 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,960 And the simple answer is that violence is very profitable, you 866 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,800 know, So if you want to have a gold backed currency, then you 867 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,080 have to tell the world where your gold is, right? 868 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,320 You can't say it's backed by gold, but it's hidden because I 869 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,520 don't want the government to find it, all right? 870 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,600 So nobody's going to accept him because I can do that. 871 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,440 And so you actually have to prove it, right? 872 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,080 You have to, you have to show where it is. 873 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,200 You have to give the address. You have to, you know, do assays 874 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,720 you have to do all this. And of course, governments can 875 00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:04,240 also find the address. They can look it up on Google 876 00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:06,160 Maps, and then they're going to come and visit your gold 877 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,880 facility and they're going to have a chit chat. 878 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,320 So governments, you know, I mean, really gold makes it 879 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,440 extremely easy for governments to seize the monetary system. 880 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,960 You know, there's about 20 locations, even for a country 881 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,400 like the US, but for a smaller country, I don't know, you got 882 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,040 like 2-3 neighbourhoods. You could literally get a squad 883 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,840 of a SWAT team and split them up and seize the entire money of 884 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,640 the nation in one go. It's got a fundamental flaw, and 885 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,560 I think it's ironic that the fundamental flaw of gold is the 886 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,920 very fact that it's physical, right? 887 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,440 This is why people like gold. They say no, no, you can't drop 888 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,160 Bitcoin on your foot. You know gold is real. 889 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,360 You can bite it. You can't eat it, but you can 890 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,960 bite it and that turns out to be the fatal flaw of gold. 891 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:56,400 It is exceptionally easy for government to seize a gold based 892 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,640 system. I mean it very obligingly 893 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,920 actually goes out and gathers up all the gold and puts it in one 894 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,880 spot and then tells the government where it's located. 895 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,120 It's, you know, from that perspective it's it's kind of a 896 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,480 dodgy prospect. OK, so I think the Bitcoin is 897 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:16,240 absolutely superior to gold. The next question is Fiat versus 898 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,280 commodity. And there, you know, I think 899 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,480 that the question is timing, OK. So if the system is going to 900 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,120 collapse like in the next 5 or 10 years, which I think is 901 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,160 unlikely, then people are going to kind of go with what they 902 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,400 know, right? And in terms of market share, 903 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,080 the vast majority of people still don't understand Bitcoin. 904 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,480 Gold is exceptionally easy for people to understand. 905 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,160 Even if you've never heard of gold, like if you've been living 906 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,240 in the Sentinel Islands in India and you've never heard there's 907 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,320 such a thing as gold, I imagine it's pretty easy to explain 908 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,000 what's happening here. Commodity money, physical 909 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,720 commodity money is, is very sort of intuitive. 910 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,800 So I think, you know, if the system is going to die in five 911 00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,840 years, then most likely we're going to revert to the gold 912 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,000 standard that Nixon broke. There's still living memory of 913 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,720 that. On the other hand, if the 914 00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:10,640 collapse is going to take longer than that, you know then in in 915 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,320 in the background because Bitcoin I think is superior 916 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,760 money. It's constantly winning new 917 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,040 converts, partly by people like us explaining what Bitcoin is 918 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,600 like this specific conversation we're having. 919 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,480 But also just age. You know a a sort of quirk of 920 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:31,080 the world is that old people are more resistant to new ideas. 921 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:37,720 You know, if you look at say Austrian economy like people who 922 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:41,760 would self describe as Austrian economists, right, Anybody over 923 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,600 age 60 is almost certainly a gold bug and only a gold bug 924 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,160 anybody underage, 40 is almost certainly a bitcoiner and only a 925 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,320 bitcoiner, right. There's a very, very strong age 926 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,320 aspect to this. So if you kind of sum that up. 927 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,000 So I think absolutely Fiat is doomed. 928 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,600 The only question is when will it take five years, Will it take 929 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,680 30 years? If it's closer to 30 years, then 930 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:10,120 I think the inherent superiority of Bitcoin, we'll have gained 931 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:15,280 enough mental mind share by 30 years from now that we're going 932 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,640 to skip gold and we're just going to go direct to Bitcoin. 933 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,120 If on the other hand, the collapse is coming in, you know, 934 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,960 five years, then I think I will certainly we go to gold and at 935 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,320 that point, you know, we basically live in the world we 936 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,040 do now where Bitcoin continues taking mind share, but in this 937 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,480 case it takes it from gold, not from Fiat. 938 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:35,440 Gotcha. Interesting. 939 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,680 Interesting. OK, so we are. 940 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,160 I do want to be respectful of your time. 941 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:40,600 We are getting to the top of the hour. 942 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,360 So my question for you, Peter, is we are heading into the year 943 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,560 of the halving and we're also heading into one of the most 944 00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,920 turbulent elections in American history. 945 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,240 And these are some crazy, crazy times. 946 00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:56,960 So what are your expectations for Bitcoin? 947 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,960 You know, the next couple of years if if history repeats 948 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,600 itself, right? Bitcoin tends to go parabolic 949 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,920 about a year after the halving, so 2025. 950 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,720 But it really starts to, you know, turn on its engines the 951 00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:14,200 year of the halving and you start to see that slow crawl up. 952 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:18,360 So are you optimistic about Bitcoin's future in these 953 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,480 turbulent times? What's your take? 954 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,720 Final question. Yeah, I am. 955 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,520 Of course prices can do you know anything? 956 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,520 Who knows? It could drop 90% because 957 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,000 governments could try to hunt it down. 958 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,240 Anything could happen. However, I think that the most 959 00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:35,040 likely outcome is that it will soar. 960 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,760 I'm not a huge fan of having as a price driver per SE. 961 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,160 You know, normally in statistics you need a fairly decent sized 962 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,360 sample and you know when we're talking about havings, what we 963 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,960 have what 3-4, we don't have many. 964 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,000 So you know, who knows. Every time it's happened in the 965 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,960 past, there have been various situations. 2016, the economy 966 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,400 had been going slow for a long time and then it it bounced back 967 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:05,560 up. 2020 was weird in many ways. You know, 20/20/12 you have the 968 00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,600 European debt crisis. You know, you've got noise in 969 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,360 every one of these. So I wouldn't put a whole lot of 970 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,160 stock into having per SE. I mean it's fun to cheer it on, 971 00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:17,240 but I think the larger issue is what you're talking about, those 972 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,680 those crises coming in. So, you know, inflation is very 973 00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:25,280 much alive, remains alive. The progress that's been made so 974 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,120 far has largely been a freebie from oil coming back down. 975 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,480 It generally does that whenever a recession is coming. 976 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:35,120 In fact, in 2008, oil dropped 80% and other than that, 977 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:36,960 inflation has not come down very much. 978 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,680 So, right. I think inflation is driving it. 979 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,280 I think the other thing is the political instability that you 980 00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,040 mentioned. You know, one of the things I 981 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:50,680 think that's fascinating about Bitcoin is that it was invented 982 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,480 for more or less bank bailouts, right? 983 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,040 And, you know, that was the genesis block. 984 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,120 But then we keep discovering, you know, there's like a sort of 985 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,720 the running joke where we say Bitcoin fixes this and then the 986 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:07,760 other guys are like, what is it going to, you know, is it going 987 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,920 to cook my bagel? What? 988 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,520 Bitcoin fixes everything? And the irony is that we keep 989 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,400 having these crises and every single one Bitcoin fixes it. 990 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,000 So, you know, you take Trudeau with the speech, you know, 991 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,120 cracking down on free speech up in Canada, you know, and you had 992 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,080 bitcoiners who, I mean, it was, it was fantastic, right? 993 00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,600 You had hundreds of bitcoiners who just jumped in their car, 994 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,520 dead of winter, drove out to Ottawa to to, you know, help 995 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,360 truckers actually get donations so they could eat. 996 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,800 Right. You know, the inflation when 997 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,960 when Satoshi, you know, put out the Genesis block, you could 998 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,960 argue, I mean, of course inflation was back of his mind. 999 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,400 That's why he modelled Bitcoin on gold. 1000 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,120 But it it's like we we we just keep discovering that every 1001 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:55,320 single crisis that we keep coming into Bitcoin, you know 1002 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,960 finds a new purpose or well, I mean Bitcoin doesn't find it. 1003 00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,720 People people discover that yes, Bitcoin does fix this and it 1004 00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:04,920 fixes that and it fixes the next one and so on. 1005 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,760 So I don't know what the crisis is going to be. 1006 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,800 You know, the in the horse race for what their next COVID is, 1007 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,440 cyberattacks seems to be a popular one. 1008 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,440 War, you know, of course, but I mean, you know, war is kind of 1009 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,840 their permanent shtick. So of course they're pushing 1010 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:24,920 back that. But yeah, cyber. 1011 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:30,160 And you know, we have some of the smartest people on our side 1012 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,560 and like in terms of programmers. 1013 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,800 And you know, if you take the people who are suspicious of the 1014 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,760 state and are interested in finding ways to go around it, I 1015 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:45,080 mean, Bitcoin has like a 99% share of those kinds of heroes 1016 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,040 on Earth. So whatever they come up with, I 1017 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,760 am certain that Bitcoin is going to show us some awesome new 1018 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,440 function to get around it. Beautiful, Beautiful. 1019 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,800 I completely agree. I say personally, Bitcoin or 1020 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,120 slavery. I think that's, you know, that's 1021 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,040 really the two choices that we have in front of ourselves. 1022 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:05,400 I do agree. I do agree with you. 1023 00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,760 We have the, you know, the best team of ours on our side. 1024 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:13,000 That's fuelled by incentives, that's fuelled for, you know, 1025 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,440 the thirst for freedom. Go ahead. 1026 00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:16,720 Yes. Yes, absolutely. 1027 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:18,800 Yep. I'm, I'm, I'm very happy with 1028 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,760 our team. I know that they have all the 1029 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,560 institutions. They have all the power, they 1030 00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,280 have all the money. They they outnumber us like a 1031 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,760 million to one. But I love our team. 1032 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,880 I I am thrilled to be on the wall with all y'all. 1033 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,120 Absolutely honored to be in the trenches with you too, Peter. 1034 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,840 Peter, thank you so much for joining us on Simply Bitcoin. 1035 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,720 IRL guys will be back with the live show tomorrow at Trophy 15 1036 00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:42,680 PM Eastern Standard Time. Until then, have an amazing 1037 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:43,800 night. See you guys later.