1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:06,040 Yo, MicroStrategy is about to be included in the $26 trillion 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:10,840 NASDAQ 100 in just two days. This means that trillions of 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,240 dollars will be now will now be buying MicroStrategy by proxy 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,600 whenever they want to buy a piece of the QQQ. 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,000 This is because of something called passive investing. 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:28,040 Does this inclusion into the NASDAQ 100 and any potential 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,480 shorts in on MicroStrategy and blow up billions of dollars of 8 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:37,400 MicroStrategy a stock price? I don't know we'll see, but 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,680 we're going to get into what the NASDAQ 100 is what is about to 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,840 happen in the next two days. And I also think anything that's 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,560 good for MSTRI think is good for Bitcoin. 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,040 I think it goes kind of goes both ways because of the amount 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,080 of Bitcoin that MSTR holds. Joining me today have doctor 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,560 Bitcoin in the house and of course, my legendary Co host, 15 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,560 always optimistic optimist fields. 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,200 So let's get it just jump straight into the news. 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,720 So first, what is the NASDAQ 100? 18 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,160 The NASDAQ 100 is a stock market index made-up of equity 19 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:18,720 securities issued by 100 of the largest non financial companies 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,440 listed on the NASDAQ Stock Exchange. 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,280 It goes on to say here's the breaking news. 22 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:29,040 MicroStrategy expected to be added to the NASDAQ 100. 23 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,800 According to Bloomberg, the official announcement is likely 24 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,320 coming this Friday. Now what are some of the 25 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:37,040 reasons? What are some of the potential 26 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,680 benefits of being on the NASDAQ 100? 27 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,600 Number one, prestige and credibility. 28 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,120 Inclusion signals that a company that the company is among the 29 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,880 largest and most successful non financial companies listed on 30 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,440 the NASDAQ Stock Exchange #2 increase visibility. 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,800 Companies in the NASDAQ 100 gain attention from investors, 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:06,240 analysts, and media, enhancing their public profile #3 attracts 33 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,440 investments. Many index funds and ETFs track 34 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,480 the NASDAQ 101 hundred, resulting in automatic 35 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,040 investment from these funds, which can boost the company's 36 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,800 stock price and liquidity #4 Validation of growth. 37 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,960 Inclusion reflects strong financial performance, market 38 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,920 capitalization, and growth potential #5 investor 39 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,360 confidence. Being part of the NASDAQ 100 can 40 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,720 reinsure investors of the company's stability and 41 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:44,880 prominence in its industry. Number six, the NASDAQ 100 is 42 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,680 widely followed internationally, offering companies exposure to 43 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,640 global investors. I think the part that I really 44 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:57,920 want to focus on specifically is the automatic investment from 45 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:01,080 funds, right? So a lot of people that perhaps 46 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,200 aren't familiar with Bitcoin aren't comfortable getting 47 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,520 exposure to Bitcoin. They see this and they're like, 48 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:14,520 wait a second, you know, they're just buying the NASDAQ 100, the 49 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,680 QQQQ, and they're getting exposure to Bitcoin whether they 50 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,120 realize it or not. And then this kind of goes down 51 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,040 the something that we've talked about for many months now, this 52 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,080 idea of the game theory, the idea of incentives, right? 53 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,120 All of a sudden, if MicroStrategy is included in the 54 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:38,520 NASDAQ 100, all of a sudden Bitcoin starts to become a part 55 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,680 of of people's everyday portfolios, whether they like it 56 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,480 or not. So their incentives are going to 57 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,600 be aligned with number go up. They're going to be more against 58 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,800 any type of anti Bitcoin regulation because that 59 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,080 potentially could affect their bags. 60 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,160 This is what we're talking about when we talk about aligned 61 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,880 incentives and when we talk about the game theory. 62 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,160 And once you understand the game theory of Bitcoin and the 63 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,920 aligned incentives of Bitcoin, you inevitably come to the 64 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,640 realization that Bitcoin is going to win. 65 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,520 So anyways, an article by our boy Nick Hoffman from Bitcoin 66 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:17,120 magazine today, Bloomberg ETF analyst Eric Balkunas and James 67 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,279 Seifart announced that MicroStrategy is expected to 68 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,640 enter into the NASDAQ 100 later this month on December 23rd. 69 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,040 Quote. MicroStrategy will likely enter 70 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,480 the NASDAQ 100 index on December 23rd, and we expect net buying 71 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,920 of at least 2.1 billion in shares by ETFs to flow equal to 72 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,760 about 20% of daily volume. Quote. 73 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,680 Joining the S&P 500 will be tougher because of a lack of 74 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,720 profit, though an accounting rule change surrounding Bitcoin 75 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,440 valuations could make MicroStrategy eligible in 2025. 76 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:57,040 Net buying of 2.1 billion would be an added boost to MSTR, which 77 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,640 has already outperformed most major stocks and also Bitcoin 78 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,480 this year, up 450% year to date at the time of writing. 79 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,440 MicroStrategy, powered by its relentless Bitcoin acquisition 80 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:14,480 strategy, has seen its stocks skyrocket to new all time high 81 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,280 this year for the first time since March 1022. 82 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:24,160 March 10th, 2000 MicroStrategy has already acquired 170,000 83 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,360 bitcoins since announcing its plan to raise 42 billion to 84 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,880 purchase more BTC in late October. 85 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,760 Balcuna stated that the official announcement of MSTR getting 86 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,680 added to QQQ is expected to come this Friday, December 13th. 87 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,840 Quote, again, this is our best estimate of what will go down. 88 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,640 But Kunis concluded, we don't work at NASDAQ, FYI. 89 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,640 So we're hearing different information. 90 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,080 Some people are saying that it's coming this Friday. 91 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,800 Some people are saying that it's coming December 23rd. 92 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:01,040 But regardless, I think this is a massive, massive, massive win 93 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,200 for MicroStrategy. And just to kind of give you 94 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,040 guys something that we covered earlier on this year, central 95 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,560 banks of Norway and Switzerland disclose massive MicroStrategy 96 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,400 holdings. So they all have indirect 97 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,480 exposure to Bitcoin. A lot of companies and actually 98 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,000 Saylor explained this when he went on legacy financial media. 99 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,760 The reason that a lot of companies and individuals and 100 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,800 institutions are buying MicroStrategy instead of spot 101 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,040 Bitcoin or the ETFs is because they legally cannot do so, but 102 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,120 they still want exposure to Bitcoin. 103 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,520 And the way that they do it is by buying MicroStrategy. 104 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,200 Now the fact that MicroStrategy is going to be added into the 105 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,400 NASDAQ 100, which is going to be massive because I, like I said 106 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,760 in the beginning of the show, it's going to allow this kind of 107 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,400 like passive investing by people that they just want, they just 108 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,240 want something safe and steady. They're not betting on 109 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,960 individual companies. They want something, sure. 110 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,960 They want something stable. And by MicroStrategy being added 111 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,200 into that index of those top 100 companies, a lot of people are 112 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:13,040 going to be getting indirect exposure to Bitcoin whether they 113 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,880 like it or not. So Bitcoin is continuing to kind 114 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,080 of creep in into the global financial system. 115 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:27,440 And when and if micro strategy is added into the S&P 500, that 116 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,640 trend is just going to continue. It's actually going to 117 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,560 accelerate, right? So this is the legitimization of 118 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,520 Bitcoin as an asset. This is the legitimization of 119 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,040 Bitcoin as a strategy for companies as an alternative to 120 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,640 cash. And I think the stocks 121 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,000 performance this year is an indication of how successful 122 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,800 that strategy has been. So anyways, I'm going to pass it 123 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,440 on to Doctor Bitcoin. Doctor Bitcoin has been in the 124 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,440 scene for quite a while, but if you guys have been on Bitcoin 125 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,280 Twitter, he goes by the name. I have to get his X account 126 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:00,600 right or else I'm going to Butch. 127 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,080 He goes by the name of Doctor Bitcoin MD on X. 128 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,600 If you guys are part of the Bitcoin X community, you know 129 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,120 who this man is and he's in a suit. 130 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,840 I was just as surprised. I had to check his verification. 131 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,480 I had to ask for his ID and Social Security number. 132 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,640 So I did KYC him. I checked his identity. 133 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,440 He is who he says he is, Doctor Bitcoin MD. 134 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,160 Welcome to the show my friend. Thanks for having me, it was a 135 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,520 very thorough search. I'm very impressed with your 136 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,799 KYCAML abilities man. Yeah, I wouldn't have let you 137 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:39,320 come on the show without a thorough KYC. 138 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,720 You know, that's just totally part of Bitcoin culture and what 139 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,520 we're all about here at Simply Bitcoin. 140 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,600 That's a bad dad joke, by the way. 141 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,720 But anyways. Users don't know this but Nico 142 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,160 tested me by forcing me to post 5 different shit posts about 143 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,600 different topics and testing to see if it really fit the 144 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:04,680 criteria for doctor Bitcoin MD posts a. 100% So man, what's 145 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:07,960 your take on this? You know you're wearing a suit, 146 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,920 so I'm assuming you're going to give us a really good 147 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,520 perspective on a MicroStrategy added being added to the NASDAQ 148 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,360 100. Apparently this is a huge deal. 149 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,240 I had my father-in-law texting me about it telling me that I 150 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,720 was like, Oh my God, this is this is huge. 151 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,720 So what's your perspective on this? 152 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,880 The things that stand out to me while I was doing research about 153 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,920 this this morning was this idea of people getting by just 154 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,080 passively investing. They're getting indirect 155 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,960 exposure to Bitcoin, right? And I, and I really believe 156 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,480 that's a one way street, right? Like once you open that door, 157 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,000 you don't go back just because of the return, just because of 158 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,440 number go up technology. So what's your, what's your take 159 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,640 on MicroStrategy being added to the NASDAQ 100 later on this 160 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:59,440 month? I think it's just another check 161 00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:06,360 on the progress for Bitcoin. We've crossed a Rubicon now 162 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:14,800 where Bitcoin has entered the center stage for all sorts of 163 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,320 different bubbles that are now coalescing around this topic. 164 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,840 So just last year at Bitcoin Nashville, we had the now 165 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,800 president-elect give a speech on Bitcoin and RFK Junior also give 166 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,320 a speech on Bitcoin. So it's definitely in the world 167 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,160 of politics. Now we're seeing it in the 168 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,560 corporate world cross a different threshold as well, 169 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,120 specifically with micro strategy. 170 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,800 I think what Taylor is doing now is going to be looked at in 171 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:53,440 history books. 102 hundred, 500 years from now, people will talk 172 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:59,320 about the the gall, the gumption to do what he's done, 173 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:04,800 considering the position he was in, and to execute with 174 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,360 fearlessness and courage and conviction. 175 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:15,520 What he's done is put Bitcoin into the hands of people that 176 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,000 would have never interacted with it in the first place, both in 177 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,480 terms of eyeballs but also their wallets. 178 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:28,160 People like my grandparents, my uncles and aunts who have always 179 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,200 pushed against holding Bitcoin itself. 180 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,720 They might have been interested when a Bitcoin ETF came about, 181 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,040 but now they don't even have to think about it in some sense 182 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,040 because they have tons of index funds. 183 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,920 And the same is true of institutions that hold a lot of 184 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:48,040 index funds. So we crossed the Rubicon here 185 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,320 where it's a one way door. There's no turning back here. 186 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,360 And this is something that we've all been thinking about for a 187 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:58,480 while. If you've been on Bitcoin 188 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,840 Twitter for a while, we've we've been talking about these days in 189 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,680 a theoretical sense, like 01 day, this might happen. 190 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,720 We might have a speculative attack on the dollar because XY 191 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,800 and Z might happen and it's playing out exactly like we 192 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,680 imagined. And even better in some sense, 193 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:19,080 because you have someone like Michael Saylor, who has a 194 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:24,400 reputation standing in that corporate world leading the 195 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,720 charge. And I think that has been a 196 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,760 lightning rod for a lot of the corporate and institutional 197 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,320 adoption. And you're only going to see 198 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,000 that continue because once MicroStrategy finds success 199 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,520 taking that route, which they clearly have, once they make it 200 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:43,200 into a top 500, top 100 companies and other companies 201 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,160 that are sitting on large cash reserves are looking over to see 202 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,680 what they're doing, you better bet there are going to be 203 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:51,160 copycats. And once there are copycats, 204 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,240 there's just a flood into Bitcoin and we just, the 205 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,680 flywheel is in effect. There's no stopping it. 206 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:03,280 A. 100 percent, 100% agree with with your perspective right 207 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,160 there. This is unstoppable. 208 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,520 The train is You better get on the train or you get left 209 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,040 behind. It's as simple as that. 210 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,000 Everyone gets Bitcoin at the price they deserve. 211 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:17,240 I think Microsoft's decision yesterday was an incorrect one. 212 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,600 I think they're going to regret it a couple years from now and 213 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,000 they're going to end up buying Bitcoin at a much higher price. 214 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,960 So yeah, I, I 100% agree. I think, you know, it, it this, 215 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:32,080 this trend is going to continue. I still see like I, I perceive, 216 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,600 you know, I could always be wrong, but I perceive that we 217 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,080 still have many, many months of bull market left and it's very, 218 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,800 it's going to be extremely exciting for Microsoft, 219 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,760 MicroStrategy shareholders, Bitcoin owners, Bitcoin people 220 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,800 that are have it, have Bitcoin in self custody. 221 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,760 So I think this party in 2025 is going to be awesome. 222 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,160 And one of the things that I tweeted out this morning is the, 223 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:02,720 the returns in 2016 were 125%. The returns for 2024 so far have 224 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,120 been 125%. The returns in 2017, which was 225 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,040 the year after the halving, which was historically when 226 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:15,880 Bitcoin tends to perform the best was it was it was 20X in 227 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,200 2017. Now am I saying we're going to 228 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,800 get a 20X in 2025? I I don't think so. 229 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,960 And that would be insane and melt faces if it does. 230 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,040 But you know, the larger the law of big number, the law of big 231 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,760 numbers comes into play. It's a lot harder to move as 232 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,760 Bitcoin continues to grow and market cap. 233 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,000 However, I am getting 2016 vibes. 234 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,600 I am getting 2017 vibes. I'm not getting 2020-2021 vibes. 235 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:47,000 And I think a lot of people still have PTSD from those from 236 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,400 that bull market of 2021 because a lot of people were let down. 237 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,240 A lot of people had higher expectations. 238 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,160 What I see the general consensus within the Bitcoin community now 239 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,560 is we have lower expectations. So with all the positive things 240 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,960 going on, whether it's the institutional acceptance and 241 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,720 adoption of Bitcoin, the regulatory environment, 40X 242 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,120 lightning goes, whether it's the regulatory environment, you know 243 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,400 you I played you guys a video of the president elect's son 244 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,680 talking about the importance of Bitcoin. 245 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,480 What makes Bitcoin different on yesterday's video, you have the 246 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,560 president wishing Bitcoin happy birthday, congratulating 247 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,680 bitcoiners on 100K. We're going to read you guys an 248 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,040 article today where part of the president's goal is to get 249 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,360 Bitcoin to 150 K earlier on in his administration. 250 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,160 Like that is nuts. That is gnarly like you couldn't 251 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,400 you couldn't imagine that in a million years. 252 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,480 So you have all these things falling together, the nation 253 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,880 state adoption as well. You had Russia announced that 254 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,480 they're looking into making Bitcoin a strategic reserve 255 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,840 asset and we're heading into the year after the halving year, 256 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,280 which tends to be the parabola year. 257 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,360 So I think things are going to get crazy. 258 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,440 I think things are going to get wild and Bitcoin tends to do the 259 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,840 exact opposite of what everybody is expecting it to do. 260 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:12,520 And of course, starting in 2025, me and Opti will start wearing 261 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,360 suits moving forward as Bitcoin continues to become mainstream. 262 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,600 And we we start to have to become, you know, financial 263 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,920 analysts and stuff and we'll wear ties and suits and, you 264 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:26,520 know, all that stuff. What do you think, Opti? 265 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:32,560 Yeah, I'm OK with it. My mom would be really happy 266 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,120 with me wearing a suit, probably. 267 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,080 So yeah, I'm OK. With that, it would be super 268 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:37,000 legit. It would be. 269 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:38,920 Super. Yeah, well, people would take us 270 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,080 more legit. I mean. 271 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,320 Are we going down the Andrew Tate route? 272 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,360 No, no, no, we're not gonna get fitted suits. 273 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:46,440 We're gonna. Get suit. 274 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,000 But those aren't just fitted suits. 275 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,880 We're gonna get classic draping suits. 276 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,080 Those are like extremely fitted. Suits, yeah, yeah. 277 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,160 Anyways, anyways, that enough, enough of fashion talk here. 278 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,440 My take on this, I think, I think the real signal here is, 279 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,440 and I've been saying this and I mean it, it does feel kind of 280 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,240 harsh when I say it, but I think even Saylor would say it himself 281 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,119 that MicroStrategy was kind of like a zombie company until he 282 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,520 adopted Bitcoin. If you guys look at the stock, 283 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,359 you know, he had, he was part of the, the Internet bubble, you 284 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:25,839 know, the, the, the early 2000 stock bubble and then it crashed 285 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,240 and went absolutely sideways and was pretty much dead in regards 286 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,800 to stock price. And then he started did to, you 287 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,160 know, research Bitcoin and Bitcoin has been freaking, you 288 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,440 know, rocket fuel for its stock. And now he's been putting on a 289 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,560 master class for everyone else to kind of follow suit. 290 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,520 It's still interesting that no one is following Michael 291 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,800 Saylor's micro strategy strategy yet, although we are hearing a 292 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,520 lot of rumble. Well, actually, let me take that 293 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,760 back. We have seen some people follow, 294 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,760 but we haven't seen the top corporations in the world 295 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,360 follow. And obviously these 296 00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:58,880 conversations are happening right now. 297 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,760 And I think micro strategy, strategy being added to the QQQ, 298 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,440 you know, top 100 NASDAQ companies, I think that is one 299 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,920 of those like defining moments of like Bitcoin maturing and the 300 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,320 Bitcoin huddle strategy being a successful strategy. 301 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,040 And now everyone is going to have to take notice. 302 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,600 Like literally micro strategy got to the QQQ just because of 303 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,800 the flywheel of adding Bitcoin to their balance sheet. 304 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,880 Now everyone has to take that seriously. 305 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,200 And then the second point is kind of what Doc and and you 306 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,200 were saying goes like now anyone that has exposure to an index 307 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,440 fund has indirect exposure to Bitcoin. 308 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,640 And I think more people are going. 309 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,920 And then first of all, it would be very interesting if we could 310 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,680 get fact checked on like how many people actually do have 311 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,960 exposure to the QQQ. And then that's, you know, a, a 312 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,960 stepping stone into more people adopting Bitcoin. 313 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,200 Obviously this is kind of just like a, a transitory step, I 314 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,000 guess, you know, a baby step into Bitcoin. 315 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,720 Yeah, exactly. That's the part. 316 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,720 That's the part of like where it got my attention the most, 317 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,600 right, which is the Trojan horse aspect of it is fascinating to 318 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,360 me, right? The kind of passive investing, 319 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:16,800 the it's like you can imagine that there's people that have a 320 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:22,960 negative outlook on Bitcoin, but you can bet that they have 321 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,640 exposure to the QQQ or you can bet that they have exposure to 322 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,400 the NASDAQ 100. Well, bro, you have exposure to 323 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,120 Bitcoin now, you know, whether you realize it or not. 324 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:35,480 So it's kind of like this Trojan horse and it's further 325 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,480 legitimizing Bitcoin in the eyes of institutional investors. 326 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,520 And it's further, you know, increasing the prestige and the 327 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,080 credibility of MicroStrategy, which is like, let's be honest, 328 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,640 guys like, like, which is essentially acting like a 329 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,400 Bitcoin index fund because of the, the, the, the, the quantity 330 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,600 of Bitcoin that they hold. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a 331 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,800 massive deal. And if they're able to get on 332 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,840 the S&P 500 that that that's another massive deal as well. 333 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,320 Because again, how many people have exposure to the S&P 500, 334 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:09,640 right? Like how many people have 335 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,600 exposure to just these index funds? 336 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,120 You know, they want that safe return of six, 8% a year and now 337 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,600 they have exposure to Bitcoin like that's that to me is 338 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,280 absolutely crazy. Now, to be fair, is this real 339 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,720 exposure to Bitcoin? No, this is this simply Bitcoin 340 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,880 real exposure to Bitcoin is spot Bitcoin in self custody. 341 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,000 However, like Opti was saying earlier it, it does function 342 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,760 like kind of like a Trojan horse, right gets your foot in 343 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,640 the door. It gets you asking questions if 344 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,240 you're getting if you're starting to benefit from number 345 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,920 go up technology, you know you're going to start to ask 346 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,080 questions on what it is that you're holding. 347 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,040 We all came here for the money, right. 348 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,480 Anyone that tells you otherwise is, is like maybe that 1% of 349 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,120 people are telling you the truth, but the vast majority of 350 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:58,600 people that got into Bitcoin, they came here for the money. 351 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,640 But we have a very famous saying in the industry. 352 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,120 It's like we came for the money, we stayed for the revolution, 353 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,920 right? So I do believe it's a step in 354 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,080 the right direction for micro strategy for Bitcoin, for the 355 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,160 industry as a whole and the further legitimization of 356 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,160 Bitcoin as an asset in the eyes of these massive institutions 357 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:21,320 and nation states alike, right? So it's very exciting stuff. 358 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,760 Anyways, guys, before we start the show, I do want to give a 359 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,800 very special shout out to simply Bitcoins lead sponsor. 360 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,480 Of course I'm talking about the best place to build your 361 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,200 automatic self of custody Bitcoin stack bitcoinwell.com 362 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,000 enable your independence with the fastest and safest way to 363 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,920 buy Bitcoin on chain or via Lightning in Canada and the USA. 364 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,320 To get started you go to bitcoinwell.com. 365 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,960 You put in your e-mail address, takes 2 to 5 minutes to sign up. 366 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,080 And what makes Bitcoin well different than all the other 367 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,120 exchanges is that it is a completely non custodial 368 00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:56,880 platform. 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Smash that like button. 429 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,800 At the time of recording, the Bitcoin price is 100 a hundred 430 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,960 three 100,340 dollars 360 dollars block height a hundred 431 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:56,320 874,283 sats per dollar under 1996 market cap 1.99 trillion 432 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:03,080 Bitcoin versus gold market cap 10.56% percentage issued 94.26% 433 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:10,440 decline from all time high -3.3% realized monetary inflation 1.1% 434 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,640 and 1.16%. In the grand scheme of things. 435 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,320 We are just getting started anyways. 436 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:22,600 Rodger VIR went on Tucker Carlson tonight yesterday. 437 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,960 We have the clip for you guys about a three minute clip of the 438 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,480 entire interview. Now, Rodger VIR is a very 439 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,600 unpopular figure here within the Bitcoin community. 440 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,680 Obviously this is one of the people that pushed Bitcoin Cash 441 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,920 hard and he attacked a lot of Bitcoiners for not getting 442 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,560 behind Bitcoin Cash. Bitcoin Cash would have been a 443 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,920 terrible idea to increase the block the the the block size. 444 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,360 Because if you increase the block size, you you increase the 445 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,920 barrier to entry for people running nodes. 446 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,640 And if you increase the barrier to entry, making it more 447 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,840 expensive, that means less nodes. 448 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,280 Less nodes means less decentralization. 449 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,800 Less decentralization is bad for Bitcoin. 450 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,720 What makes Bitcoin different and unique compared to all the other 451 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,280 cryptocurrencies is it's decentralization. 452 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,080 So leave Bitcoin as is. Don't touch it. 453 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,600 I'm a big fan of ossification. Maybe you'll hate me for that, 454 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,320 but that's where I kind of stand on things. 455 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,360 Don't fix what ain't broken, and obviously Bitcoin ain't broken. 456 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,080 So anyways, yeah, Roger VER very unpopular figure for doing that 457 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,920 for pushing Bitcoin cash, wrecking a lot of people in the 458 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,000 process. We all know how that ended. 459 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,920 Clearly Bitcoin, the OG Bitcoin, the original Bitcoin V Bitcoin 460 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,080 was the winner of the fork wars. But if you live through the fork 461 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,440 wars, it wasn't so certain at the time. 462 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,600 Why the Bitcoin cash hash rate? They artificially because Jihan 463 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,960 Wu Jihan Wu was the official, the original founder of Bit 464 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,040 Maine, which was one of the and is still is one of the largest 465 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,320 ASIC manufacturers in the world. And between him and Roger, they 466 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,680 had a tremendous amount of Bitcoin. 467 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,760 And what they were able to do is that they were able to 468 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,320 artificially not only pump the price of Bitcoin cash as it 469 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:16,720 relates to Bitcoin, but also, but also increase the hash rate 470 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,720 artificially of of the Bitcoin cash network to the point that 471 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,520 there was two times during the fork wars that the hash rate of 472 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,480 Bitcoin cash overtook the hash rate of Bitcoin, meaning that 473 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,560 there was a short period of time and this was all artificially. 474 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,560 Now we know this in in hindsight, but there is a point 475 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,800 in time where two or three times where the Bitcoin Cash hash rate 476 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,040 was higher than bitcoins, meaning that the Bitcoin Cash 477 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,600 was theoretically more computationally secured than 478 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,680 Bitcoin. May you can make an argument 479 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,600 that it theoretically had a higher value proposition at the 480 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,040 time. Now we know that was all 481 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,240 bullshit. They did that artificially. 482 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,160 They pumped the price artificially, they pumped the 483 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,160 hash rate artificially, and they burned a ton of Bitcoin in the 484 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:09,280 process doing all of this right. And both Jihan and Roger, I'm 485 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,200 sure have a lot of less Bitcoin today than they would have had 486 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,800 if they just would have stuck to Bitcoin. 487 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,040 Anyways, all that being said, I had to give a giant preface. 488 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,680 There is some interesting things that were talked about during 489 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,000 the interview that Roger had with Tucker Carlson. 490 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,520 And one of those things that they were talking about, which 491 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,560 is something that we covered on simply and I believe this is 492 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,640 part of the Operation Choke .2 point O that we just lived 493 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,720 through for the last 3 1/2 years that forced the hands of 494 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,320 Bitcoiners to get behind the Republican Party and Trump. 495 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,760 Because I don't think Bitcoiners would have gone in political if 496 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,320 we weren't forced to. But Roger Ruhr was one of the 497 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,160 people that were targeted. And essentially what happened 498 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:03,800 was that he gave, he gave up his US citizenship it back in 2014. 499 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,120 And he was just charged. It was like this year for 500 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,400 essentially not paying taxes on some of the taxes that he owed 501 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,360 from that era. Which like, if you think about 502 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,080 it, like, essentially what they're trying to do is they're 503 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,000 trying to make an example out of Roger. 504 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,280 And because they see the writing on the wall and they're saying, 505 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,680 like, listen, it doesn't matter whether you give up your US 506 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,840 citizenship. It doesn't matter where you are 507 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,400 in the world. We can find you and we will put 508 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,560 you in a box if you don't pay your taxes, it doesn't matter 509 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,800 whether you give up your citizenship or not. 510 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,040 And this just kind of reminds me of the theory from the book The 511 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,720 Sovereign Individual, right? And they make that theory in 512 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,320 that book, they make the case that essentially what you're 513 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,760 going to start to see is you're going to start to see a mass 514 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,400 exodus of people leaving countries that don't have 515 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,880 favorable tax jurisdiction or they don't have favorable 516 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,560 business regulation because it's so easy to do so in the 517 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,120 information age, right? You can literally just pick up 518 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,800 your laptop and go. If you're taking self custody, 519 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,640 you can bring your wealth with you and you can go to another 520 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,560 country that treats you best. We saw a little like example of 521 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,120 that during the pandemic where you had a mass exodus of people 522 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,040 leaving New York and California, going to Texas and Florida. 523 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,240 You see a lot of people in Europe leaving Europe. 524 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,920 Going to Dubai with Dubai has zero capital gains tax. 525 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,320 And you see a lot of these European countries react with 526 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,640 trying to implement an exit tax, you know, and they're trying to 527 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,120 stop people from leaving, right? So I believe that part of the 528 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,640 motivation from the US government to go after Rodger is 529 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,760 to make an example out of him and say, listen, it doesn't 530 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,680 matter whether you gave up your citizenship 10 years ago. 531 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,720 It doesn't matter even if you're not in the United States. 532 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,080 It doesn't even matter if your businesses are not in the United 533 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,160 States. We will make an we. 534 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,840 We can get you if we want to. Right now, I'm not trying to 535 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,880 justify anything that Rodger did. 536 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,080 I'm not very familiar with the case, but I believe that it was 537 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,360 politically motivated after everything we've seen, you know, 538 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,880 over the last 3 1/2 years. Anyways, guys, so here's a clip 539 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,200 from the interview. I'm not going to play the entire 540 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,480 thing. But let's check it out. 541 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,360 You are being extradited from Spain, an ally in Western 542 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,800 Europe, a NATO country, to the United States by the US Justice 543 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,680 Department to face life in prison 109 years for tax 544 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,480 evasion. You're not AUS citizen. 545 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,480 The period that you're being charged with evading American 546 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,400 taxes, you are not AUS citizen. And so whenever I see a story 547 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,720 that says the US government is extraditing somebody for tax 548 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,680 evasion to put them in prison for 109 years, my first thought 549 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,520 is maybe it's not really about the taxes. 550 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,520 Maybe there's something more to this story. 551 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,160 Could there be another reason the US government is angry at 552 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,200 you and wants to put you in prison for the rest of your 553 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,040 life? Yeah, to be honest, I think 554 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,800 they're not really angry about taxes at all. 555 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,880 I think they're just angry about my lack of obedience and, and 556 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,560 lack of, you know, kissing their ring. 557 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,240 I was the first person in the entire world to start investing 558 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,400 in the Bitcoin ecosystem and investing in businesses that 559 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,840 made it easy for people to use Bitcoin as money and as cash for 560 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,360 people all over the world. And I was promoting it since 561 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,800 2011 is hey, stop using the US dollar, stop using EUR, stop 562 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,640 using yen, start using Bitcoin. We have an alternative in which 563 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,040 each individual anywhere on the planet can be in charge of their 564 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,320 own money completely without needing permission from any 565 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,200 politician or any government anywhere in the world. 566 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,440 And when you're a government that loves controlling people 567 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,080 through the control of the money supply, that's very, very 568 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,880 threatening to their control of the world. 569 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,400 So of course they didn't like that at all. 570 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,720 And I knew that this sort of thing was dangerous. 571 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,040 And I thought the safest path for me would be to not be AUS 572 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,560 citizen. So in 2014, I renounced my US 573 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,160 citizenship and became a, you know, a citizen of the world 574 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,920 effectively. But my new nationality is a 575 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,640 Saint Kitts, which is a wonderful little island in the 576 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,600 Caribbean. And I thought that that would be 577 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,480 safe for me and I could promote Bitcoin from from there and 578 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,800 obey, even though I may disagree with plenty of laws, I do my 579 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,680 best to obey them because I know when you're and advocating for 580 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,120 things that change the world, governments don't like that and 581 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,360 they can come after you. So I I told all my tax attorneys 582 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,320 and everybody else, we have to do everything perfect. 583 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,719 So there's no room for the US government to give me a hard 584 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,679 time about any of this. And more than a decade after I 585 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:19,400 had already renounced my US citizenship and just a couple of 586 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,320 weeks after I published a book on the hijacking of Bitcoin, how 587 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,400 it no longer works is peer-to-peer cash for the world. 588 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,719 And it's been morphed into to something that's just a digital 589 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,760 asset that people are speculating on the price on, 590 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,320 rather than something that can compete with the US dollar and 591 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,600 the euro and the yen for use as currency around the world. 592 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,600 Suddenly, right after my book it's published that exposes how 593 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,800 people claiming to work for intelligence agencies hijack 594 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,760 Bitcoin to do that. Suddenly I get arrested and 595 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,199 tossed in jail in Spain and trying to be extradited to face 596 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,520 more than 100 years in prison. I'm 45 today. 597 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,440 I I think my odds of being alive with conventional technology in 598 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,040 109 years from now aren't aren't looking too good So effectively 599 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,800 to die in prison is what they want because they're so upset 600 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,640 about the things I've been saying and the way all. 601 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:03,640 Right. I'm going to leave it at that. 602 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,000 And you know, there's a lot of things that I don't agree with 603 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:12,240 Roger on as a Bitcoiner. But I will say this, I'm 604 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:16,560 starting to see a pattern, OK? We had CZ arrested. 605 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,960 We had Arthur Hayes arrested. We had Roger Burr arrested. 606 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,280 You had privacy developers arrested. 607 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,080 Simultaneously, you have banks like TD Bank that just got a 608 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,880 record fine for the amount of money that they laundered. 609 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,800 And there was no one arrested that their executive team was 610 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,720 not arrested. We just lived through Operation 611 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:42,840 Choke .2 point O and more things continue to come to light. 612 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,360 You know, and, and me and Opti were concerned at various points 613 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,200 just because we are a Bitcoin media business and we are a 614 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,560 Bitcoin business based out of the United States. 615 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,240 And, and I, you know, as much as I, I disagree with Roger on, on 616 00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,600 a variety of things, like his opinion on, you know, Bitcoin 617 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,760 cash and, and scaling and all that stuff. 618 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,080 I, I, I believe the arrest of Rodger Burr was politically 619 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,720 motivated. I mean, if it, if it just 620 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,880 happened by itself, I would say no. 621 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,680 Like, you know, this is one thing, but the fact that it all 622 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,680 happened around the time that CZ was arrested, around the time 623 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,640 the Samurai guys were arrested, around the time the Tornado Cash 624 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,160 guys were arrested, The fact that it was happening all around 625 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,800 that same time tells me that it was sending a message more than 626 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:41,520 more than anything else. Now, that being said, I don't 627 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:46,040 know the specifics of the case. I don't have a law or tax 628 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,760 background. I don't know what they're 629 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,960 claiming or what he did. But here you have another 630 00:36:52,960 --> 00:37:00,440 example of essentially this guy potentially serving his entire 631 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,080 life in prison. And then this is one of the guys 632 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,320 that has was promoting Bitcoin in the very early days. 633 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,760 And I do agree with Rodger in the sense that, yes, there are 634 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,800 some things that Bitcoin is going to be very unpopular with 635 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,240 governments for sure. I, I 100% agree with that. 636 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,320 You know, the way that he explained it in the beginning, 637 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,640 the reality is that governments get a tremendous amount of. 638 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,680 We have doctor, Doctor Jack Cruz in the chat, by the way, You 639 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,960 should definitely check out his keynote, which we posted on X 640 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,560 from adopting Bitcoin. Doctor Cruz says these 641 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,080 prosecutions remind me of exactly what happened with the 642 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,320 Chicago 8 when Ramsey Hunt and Jordan Mitchell charged the 643 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,080 change the DOJ rules in 1968 and 1969. 644 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,960 Yeah. So I mean, again, I may disagree 645 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,800 with Rodger, but as a Bitcoiner, I'm not a fan of Bitcoiners 646 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,320 getting arrested, right? I'm just not a fan of it. 647 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,800 And why is it that our industry continues to get targeted and 648 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,440 the traditional financial industry gets fines? 649 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,800 Why the double standard? That is the exact opposite of 650 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,200 what justice is supposed. It's like the equal laws of 651 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,600 justice. The justice the, the lady has a 652 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,120 a blindfold and she's holding a scale. 653 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,680 It's supposed to be fair. That's that scale is like going 654 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,160 like the, the scale that has the feel on it. 655 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,960 It's just like tipping to one side like it's bullshit. 656 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,080 So anyways, that that's, that's my take on this is that I think 657 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:37,680 that this is politically motivated. 658 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,240 He he could have done. I don't know what the the 659 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:47,000 details of the case are, like I said, but you know, look at all 660 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,040 the things that they did with the various banks, right, with 661 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,600 operation choke .2 point O how they specifically told banks to 662 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,440 stop onboarding, quote UN quote crypto businesses. 663 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,880 And this was all done opaquely. We were not supposed to hear 664 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:09,680 about this, right? So like the attack from 665 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,920 Elizabeth Warren, capitalizing on the tragedy that happened in 666 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,920 Israel, and then basically using the legacy media to try to 667 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,040 convince the American people that terrorists were using 668 00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:25,400 Bitcoin to launder money. And then it was discovered that 669 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,040 the vast majority of money laundering is done doing the 670 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,720 traditional financial system. But that didn't stop the FinCEN 671 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,880 from introducing even more laws and regulations to kind of go 672 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,160 after the industry. So maybe they're right about 673 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,600 what Rodger did. I just after what I've lived 674 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,240 through as a bitcoiner, as someone who owns a business in 675 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:50,680 the industry over the last 3 1/2 years, forgive me if I don't 676 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,840 believe you. I, I just, that's where I'm at 677 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,920 right now personally. So anyways, Doctor, Bitcoin, 678 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,240 you've been in, man, you've been in this industry just as long as 679 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,120 we have, man, maybe if not longer. 680 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,400 Roger has done some, you know, some very unpopular things 681 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,280 within the Bitcoin community. But at the same time, you know, 682 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,920 I'm looking at this and I can't help but to think this is, you 683 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,280 know, this is criminally motivated. 684 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,800 I mean, this is politically motivated. 685 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,200 So there's a couple points to touch on here. 686 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,560 I actually think it's a delicate topic that's worth expanding on 687 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,920 here. First and foremost, I do think 688 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,960 when you deal with nascent technologies and networks, 689 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,760 whether it was the Internet of the 90s and prior or Bitcoin 690 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,120 now, there's usually a lag when it comes to regulation. 691 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,720 It takes regulatory bodies a while to figure out what exactly 692 00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:53,600 they're dealing with and how best to deal with it. 693 00:40:54,280 --> 00:41:00,440 And part of it is reasonable in their mind for things like 694 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,880 investor protections and, you know, trying to make sure people 695 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,720 are just not outright fraud, frauding and scamming people. 696 00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:13,160 So trying to steal man, their, their side of things, that's 697 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:19,240 what they're attempting to do. Now, in reality, what happens is 698 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,520 regulatory bodies end up putting a giant blanket over an entire 699 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:29,440 industry, and they start taking a scattergun approach where you 700 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,680 don't know when the next domino is gonna fall and who it's gonna 701 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,440 be. And we're all just kind of 702 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,600 waiting and we're surprised at who it is, and we don't really 703 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:50,230 understand why they. Yeah, we did. 704 00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:52,350 We lose them. Yeah, we might have, might have, 705 00:41:53,990 --> 00:42:04,440 might have, might have dropped. Anyway, Doctor Bitcoin, you, you 706 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,760 were in, you were in the, you were in the matrix for a little 707 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,380 bit. All. 708 00:42:17,180 --> 00:42:19,180 Right, let's let's, let's keep. I'll hit him in the private 709 00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:20,580 chat. Yeah, let's keep rolling it. 710 00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:22,380 Let's keep rolling it. We'll we'll figure out. 711 00:42:22,380 --> 00:42:24,420 This is a live show after all. Guys. 712 00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:28,820 Opti, what's your take on on on Roger, man? 713 00:42:28,820 --> 00:42:32,020 I know he's a very, very divisive figure. 714 00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:34,220 And within the Bitcoin community, there's a lot of 715 00:42:34,220 --> 00:42:39,440 things that he did that were not popular with the community, and 716 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,920 rightly so. But two things could be true at 717 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:49,160 the same exact time. Now, again, I don't know the 718 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,760 exact details of the case. However, I am not blind and I 719 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,520 kind of do see a little bit of a double standard between how they 720 00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,640 treat people in the traditional finance. 721 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,080 No banker went to jail for what happened in 2008, bro. 722 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,840 OK. And that was one of the crimes 723 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,680 of the century, in my opinion, in terms of the amount kind of 724 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:14,200 damage that caused society and then our industry, you know, 725 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:19,280 whether it's Ross Ulbricht or, you know, Rodger Ver or, you 726 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,160 know, other people, it, it seems like it's kind of like, let's 727 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,000 lock them in a box and lock away the key, bro. 728 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,840 No matter what it is like, you know, we'll find something, you 729 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,640 know, we'll find a crime, right? So I'm not, again, I don't know 730 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,480 the details of the case. I'm not a lawyer. 731 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,760 I don't have that background. I'm not trying to make excuses 732 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,000 for him, but I'm not stupid. And I see a pattern here. 733 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,360 So Opti, what's your take on all this? 734 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,240 Yeah, well, you know, with the caveat that you just said I'm 735 00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:47,240 just a dude in a hoodie on YouTube. 736 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:51,960 So I do not have the background to really unpack everything. 737 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:57,000 But I think considering the context of when this prosecution 738 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,200 came down, I think it's very obvious that it is political. 739 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,600 We were covering it all of all last or all all of this year 740 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,040 rather. And when it happened, we got to 741 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,840 remember how heated things were getting in the US. 742 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,880 That was when we were really talking about, well, Nico was 743 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,880 really saying it all the time, like we might have to leave the 744 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,200 US. And at that point it did very 745 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,640 scary for a lot of his bitcoiners in the US. 746 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,920 We all know now in hindsight that Operation Choke .2 Point O 747 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,480 was a real thing that they have been trying to stop the adoption 748 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,600 of Bitcoin and it's very obviously politically motivated. 749 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,640 They've tried to make an example of Roger ver. 750 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,520 I don't really like Roger ver. I came in after the block size 751 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,280 wars like a month or so after, so I really can only look 752 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,040 backwards. I don't, I don't really know, 753 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,080 you know, the whole story or rather I didn't experience it in 754 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,400 real time, but I think it's very clear now that be cash is trash. 755 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,880 And with that being said, though, I still think that it is 756 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,600 politically motivated. And look, I I don't want to be 757 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,480 in Roger's shoes and it's very obvious that they are trying to 758 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,840 make an example out of him. And so it is very interesting 759 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,360 where we are right now, especially considering that we 760 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,320 are seemingly going to get a more pro Bitcoin administration 761 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,240 in the US. So hopefully we get some we get 762 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,040 some tailwind on it. And like, not to be specific, 763 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,880 right, Because I'm not like this isn't the point of simply, and 764 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,840 now that the election is over, we're going to like completely 765 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,200 just go away from politics. But like, didn't a specific 766 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:32,320 person just get pardoned and like for tax stuff and stuff 767 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,320 like that? Like, you know, like again, like 768 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:41,640 it, it, it's what what bothers me is not the law or because if 769 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,560 the law is the law, like the law is the law. 770 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,840 What the, the, what bothers me is that like there's two systems 771 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,960 of justice that, that, that and then that's not, that's not law, 772 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,160 right? That's not a legal system. 773 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,920 That's a hierarchy, right? That's like a that's like 774 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,160 feudalism, dude. It's like rules for thee, but 775 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:03,640 not for me. We're gonna get to make the 776 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,160 rules, and then we're gonna arbitrarily choose on who we 777 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:11,600 choose to enforce these rules that we make and who has to 778 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,640 follow them. And we don't have to follow 779 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:14,880 them, but you have to follow them. 780 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:19,200 Like, you know, didn't like the one of the senators from like 781 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:25,080 New Jersey get discovered with like wads of cash and gold bars 782 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,560 in his trunk while simultaneously criticizing 783 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,480 Naimbu Kele, right. Like, isn't Nancy Pelosi like 784 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,760 one of the best stock stock traders of all time? 785 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,240 Like again, like, I'm, I'm not trying to be political or like 786 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:43,320 whatever, but it's clear that there's certain people within 787 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:50,200 the country that rules don't apply to them like they apply to 788 00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:53,800 everybody else. And normally we wouldn't talk 789 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,480 about this type of stuff. However, recently it's been 790 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:03,880 affecting our industry. Recently our industry has been 791 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:09,440 the one, thank you, Doctor Cruz, Senator Menendez, But recently 792 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,160 our industry has been the one that has been under the bullseye 793 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,680 like, and, and so we have to speak up. 794 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,640 We have to say something. It's not, it's not OK. 795 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:21,880 We're joined back by Doctor Bitcoin. 796 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,560 Doctor, Bitcoin is back. Men, could you continue your 797 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,280 thoughts? Because it was, it was great 798 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:28,880 what you were saying. Yeah. 799 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:30,920 First off, I think they're on to me here. 800 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,440 The second I started talking about that topic, everything 801 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:37,760 just shut down. That was bizarre. 802 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:44,920 But anyways, I think the point I was trying to hit on is first 803 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,360 and foremost, I think when it comes to Roger, there's a lot of 804 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,680 negative sentiment towards him from the Bitcoin community and a 805 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:58,560 lot of it is warranted. Earlier I said we were crossing 806 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,360 the Rubicon. Part of crossing the Rubicon is 807 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,040 having people that have never interacted with Bitcoin get the 808 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,520 first taste of what it's like and hear stories, narratives, 809 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:18,120 history. And if we are not strong in our 810 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:23,720 positions as Bitcoiners and we don't protect the narratives, 811 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:27,040 the stories that are being put out there, that's what happens. 812 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,040 You get Rodger going on Tucker Carlson rather than someone that 813 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:36,800 can actually tell the story of Bitcoin and be able to represent 814 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:45,600 Bitcoin properly. Now, despite all that, despite 815 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,440 our feelings for Rodger, I think there is something bigger at 816 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:54,080 play here, which is the weaponization of the legal 817 00:48:54,080 --> 00:49:00,400 apparatus against individuals. Now when it comes to that 818 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:06,680 approach, you see that often in 3rd world countries, in 819 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,920 countries that are dictatorships, but you're seeing 820 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:14,440 it a lot more in the US and a lot more in the light than it 821 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:19,680 ever used to be, particularly with this last administration. 822 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,680 You're seeing it angled towards the now president-elect. 823 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:29,120 You're seeing it angled towards anyone involved in January 6th. 824 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,920 You're seeing it angled towards people that are involved in the 825 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,920 Bitcoin and crypto space, crypto space broadly. 826 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,720 So when it comes to rules and regulations, if you want to 827 00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:45,280 steal man, the argument, you would say, OK, these regulatory 828 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:50,360 bodies are trying their best to protect investors or protect the 829 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:55,360 average person from getting defrauded or getting scammed. 830 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,160 And there is some merit to that to some extent, right? 831 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:03,080 If you look at some of the shit coin happenings over the last 832 00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:07,360 few weeks, last few years, look at the hawk to a coin right? 833 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:13,160 I can't believe I'm saying those words, but should that have ever 834 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,960 happened? Should that have ever gotten out 835 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,280 of the bag? Now there's a libertarian side 836 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,960 of me that thinks, yeah, absolutely. 837 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,800 You know, if people voluntarily choose to invest in those types 838 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,560 of things, then it's their loss, right? 839 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,000 They kind of know what they're getting into. 840 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,280 But this, this goes to the point of informed consent is like, do 841 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,520 people really know what they're getting into here? 842 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,280 I think sometimes they do, and they're gambling, so that's 843 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,960 perfectly fine. And a lot of times they don't. 844 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,880 So we all draw a line somewhere, like if someone defrauded your 845 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,320 grandmother with a phone scam, we'd all be like that person 846 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,400 should be charged and that that that should be illegal, right? 847 00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:54,040 So we all draw the line somewhere. 848 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,920 But where is that line? The problem is for the crypto 849 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,120 industry, and I'm using crypto specifically here, broader than 850 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,800 Bitcoin. It's been a very blanket 851 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,680 approach. So a lot of times when you have 852 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:12,880 a new innovation, new technology, you have concentric 853 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,040 circles of adoption, you have the inner circle, which is the 854 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,040 the hardcore believers, the cypherpunks in our case, the 855 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,320 types, the libertarian types, the gold bugs that were 856 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,160 converted to Bitcoin. And these people adopt it 857 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:31,800 because they need it or they feel like they are drawn to it 858 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,920 in a, in a very ideological manner. 859 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,520 And then that concentric circle expands to now you look 15 years 860 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,880 later, we have corporations, we have institutions, we have 861 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,560 individuals, we have nation States and so on and so forth. 862 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,440 So for regulatory bodies like the SEC or FINRA or whoever, 863 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,760 when they look at this, they're trying to deal with an animal 864 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,640 that has already escaped its cage. 865 00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:03,960 And their approach is just a scattergun approach. 866 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,760 Find targets where you can get them and try to take them down. 867 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:13,240 So what do they do? They go after people that are 868 00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:15,800 loud. They go after people that make 869 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,920 themselves heard. And sometimes, often times, 870 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,200 these are people that deserve to, you know, answer some 871 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,000 questions as to what what they've done and whether it was 872 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,120 above board. But often times it's a 873 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,800 weaponization of a political and legal apparatus. 874 00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,200 And I think that's part of what you're seeing here. 875 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,920 And I want to be, I want to be cognizant of that. 876 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,960 And I want to warn Bitcoiners not to be too black or white. 877 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,080 I think a lot of Bitcoiners, myself included, your, your 878 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,120 instinct is to either say it's Roger, he kind of deserves it 879 00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,880 or, you know, we should fight for Roger because he's getting 880 00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,280 this. And I, I think the answer is 881 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,040 like right in between is like, he probably deserves some 882 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,560 sympathy in terms of the what he's going through from a legal 883 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,920 perspective, but he doesn't deserve sympathy in terms of the 884 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,640 narratives that he spun and the damage he's caused to Bitcoin. 885 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,400 So part of that is getting the narratives right With the block 886 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,880 size wars. We have very little information 887 00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:18,760 on that that we can share with the public. 888 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,000 We have a great book called The Block Size Wars, But other than 889 00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,760 that and a few podcasts and a few conversations, I think most 890 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,560 people that come into the space, they see Roger Rehr and they see 891 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,440 him talking about Bitcoin. They have no idea about the 892 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:33,960 history. They don't know anything. 893 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,320 So that guy goes on Tucker, that's credibility. 894 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,480 Like it's a boomer generation or anyone older than 30. 895 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,000 They're looking at Tucker Carlson, They're looking at some 896 00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,560 guy on there that's talking about Bitcoin. 897 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,800 They're like, all right, cool. This guy seems like he knows 898 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,560 what he's talking about. They're going to look him up and 899 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,520 all of a sudden they own Bitcoin Cash and five years later 900 00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:53,560 they're like, wait, what happened? 901 00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,120 I thought I owned Bitcoin. Yep. 902 00:53:55,520 --> 00:54:00,200 And that's seriously damaging. So how do we, how do we address 903 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,720 that? I think it's a very delicate 904 00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:06,080 situation, but you have to be able to approach it in a way 905 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:11,400 that addresses the different avenues of the conversation in a 906 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,400 reasonable way. I think, I think 22, both things 907 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,760 could be true at the same time. And I think it's really 908 00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:21,040 important to like separate like the two. 909 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,720 It's like, yes, as a Bitcoin community, we're not fans of 910 00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:27,840 Roger, but I'm also not a fan of the US government persecuting 911 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:33,560 another Bitcoiner that has different to put it nicely. 912 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,880 I don't even know how to put it nicely actually, But I'm not a 913 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,760 fan of the US government persecuting us or persecuting 914 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,280 our industry, right? Like, This is why I bring, This 915 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,040 is why I put CZ in the mix. This is why I put Arthur Hayes 916 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,400 in the mix, right? Like CZ, you know, built one of 917 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:55,360 the biggest altcoin exchanges on the face of the planet. 918 00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,520 However, why is it that when banks do the exact same thing 919 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,480 they accuse CZ of, they get fines? 920 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:08,600 How come when you know exchanges do it like we get locked in a 921 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,360 box you like? How come when you know, Ross did 922 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,840 what he did, he got a triple life sentence? 923 00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:19,040 Like Roger is facing a a life sentence essentially like that 924 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,200 is nuts. And then simultaneously, you 925 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,720 know, I'm not going to repeat myself and beat a dead horse. 926 00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:28,520 But it's like simultaneously there's certain people in 927 00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,560 government and certain figures and certain politicians not to 928 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,960 name any names that are that have done and do did do the 929 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,880 exact same things, but they have absolutely no accountability 930 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,840 whatsoever. So my issue my issue. 931 00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:45,720 Here. Sorry, Nico. 932 00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:49,000 It's also important to note here, they're not going after 933 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,640 him for securities fraud. They're not going after him for 934 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,400 embezzlement. They're not going after him for 935 00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,560 fraud. They're going after him for 936 00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:00,400 taxes. So it it seems like they're 937 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,800 finding any way to pin something on him, and that seems like the 938 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,280 most reasonable route for them. For sure. 939 00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,360 And it was 10 years ago. It was 10 years ago, right. 940 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:14,120 And again, I'm not, I'm not saying that what Roger did, I 941 00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,400 don't know and I don't have a legal background to give you an 942 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,960 assumption of the case. What I am picking attention on 943 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,600 is there's a pattern here that is very noticeable. 944 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,200 Opti was the first one that was like looking at me on the show 945 00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,560 and it's like Nico, like stop being a schmuck, bro. 946 00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,200 They're obviously targeting us. And I continue to give the 947 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:41,680 benefit of the doubt until one day I essentially broke on air 948 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,200 and I went all the all the other direction. 949 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:49,240 And that day was the moment they locked the samurai wallet, guys, 950 00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,920 in the moment they arrested the samurai guys, I was like, no, 951 00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,480 no, no, no, no. And I remember, and I remember 952 00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:01,240 tweeting out, I said, guys, honestly, it's probably not a 953 00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:03,480 good idea that Biden wins another term. 954 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:08,200 And the tweet went viral because everyone was thinking the same 955 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,640 thing, right? And then, of course, that 956 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:15,120 created a political opportunity for the opposing party to 957 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,560 capitalize on it. And then that's why Trump made 958 00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,080 Bitcoin part of his campaign, right? 959 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,560 And so it's, it's, it's kind of like like we didn't want to get 960 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,320 political. We didn't want it. 961 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,160 We didn't want any of this. We just wanted to be left alone 962 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,240 to our own devices to build. You know, we have Bitcoin. 963 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,880 But it was kind of like you poked us with a stick for so 964 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,640 long and you kind of forced our hand. 965 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,440 You forced us to be part of the donor class. 966 00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,920 You force, you forced us to become a political voice. 967 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:51,880 You forced us to start inviting some of these politicians to our 968 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,760 conferences. You forced us into that corner 969 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,320 by the actions that you have taken. 970 00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,400 And then when we call you out on it, it's just total gaslighting. 971 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,200 Like, you know, I, I, I'm just that that's my opinion on all 972 00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:06,800 this. Anyways, guys, we still got to 973 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,480 get to the news and then we got to talk to Doctor Bitcoin. 974 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,440 So let's get to it. Here we go. 975 00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,680 I want to give a very special shout out to our sponsor Compass 976 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,720 Mining. They make Bitcoin mining 977 00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,640 accessible to everyone from beginners to experienced 978 00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,520 investors. 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This is the perfect gift to give 1007 01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,000 to somebody that perhaps is a little bit intimidated by taking 1008 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,640 self custody Passport does not sacrifice security for. 1009 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,720 Inconvenience, so get yourself a passport by foundation devices 1010 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:30,520 Bitcoin hardware wallet remember guys, not your keys, not your 1011 01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:35,720 keys take self custody use promo code simply to get a small 1012 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,880 discount all right everybody so let's talk about this crazy, 1013 01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,800 crazy world we live in I'm going to continue I I have not deleted 1014 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:49,440 this this note for the last week of doing the show because I'm 1015 01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,400 going to continue to iterate that just to kind of give you 1016 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,720 guys an idea right elections have consequences. 1017 01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:01,360 We just talked for like 30 minutes about the Roger Vert 1018 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,640 case, about Operation Choke Point 2.0, about essentially 1019 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:10,080 what we had to deal with as an industry and as a community for 1020 01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,560 the last 3 1/2 years due to this current administration. 1021 01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:18,040 Now, because of this upcoming elect, because of this election, 1022 01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:23,600 because Trump won, you have a pro SEC chair, you have a pro 1023 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,560 Bitcoin president. We paid you guys a video of the 1024 01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,360 president's son talking about Bitcoin yesterday. 1025 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,600 You have the you have Howard Lepnick going into the 1026 01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,640 administration. He's going on Poms podcast 1027 01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,760 basically saying that he's planning to buy hundreds of 1028 01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:41,240 millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin. 1029 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,960 Like it's like, it is gnarly. So This is why we'd say 1030 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:51,000 elections have consequences. And one of those consequences 1031 01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:55,520 is, and this isn't going to be a legal one or a regulatory thing. 1032 01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,800 This is going to be something that I just find absolutely 1033 01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,080 hilarious because this is something that Trump would say. 1034 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,960 I mean, he did take credit for Bitcoin hitting 100K after all. 1035 01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,040 So this shouldn't surprise anybody. 1036 01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:12,000 But basically, quote, Trump is going to be very focused on the 1037 01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,120 price of Bitcoin. It's another stock market for 1038 01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:20,240 him, adding that Trump would love for Bitcoin to hit $150,000 1039 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,560 in his early presidency. I find that absolutely hilarious 1040 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:27,960 because it was actually like during the Bitcoin conference 1041 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,560 that he was like, if you vote for me, I'm going to make you 1042 01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:35,960 very rich, and Bitcoin is going to hit $100,000. 1043 01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,040 Like he said that, you know, And it was, it was like his Trump 1044 01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:40,800 mannerisms and his Trump rhetoric. 1045 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:45,520 But he did say it after all, and I find it hilarious that as soon 1046 01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:50,520 as we figured out that he won the election, you know, he like 1047 01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,680 the price of Bitcoin started pumping now in terms of moving 1048 01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,400 the Overton window and kind of favorable, like, you know, 1049 01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:03,280 regulatory environment. Here's the former S, the CFTC 1050 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:09,600 chair, Chris Giancarlo, and he went on Fox News and he said 1051 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,280 some interesting things that we have talked a lot about on 1052 01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:13,240 simply. Let's check it out. 1053 01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:17,320 Recently climbing more than $100,000. 1054 01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,320 Per. This is Investors anticipate 1055 01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,400 Donald Trump will usher in a new era of crypto friendly policies 1056 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,480 and legislation during his first 100 days. 1057 01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,440 What's that mean to you, Chris? John Carlo is the former 1058 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,360 chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission under 1059 01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:33,800 Donald Trump. Good morning to you. 1060 01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,800 Thanks for coming in here. There's a treasury document 1061 01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,120 calls Bitcoin digital gold. We've heard that before. 1062 01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:45,320 Okay, that, that's one element. Next one, Elon Musk praising El 1063 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,800 Salvador's Empresso crypto reserve. 1064 01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,680 So that's an interesting relationship. 1065 01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,880 Why is this happening now? What does the incoming 1066 01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,680 administration see as favorable for Bitcoin? 1067 01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,000 You know, there's there's a number of reasons why this 1068 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:03,840 happening. One is because the technology 1069 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,200 has come about. We finally reached the stage of 1070 01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,160 the Internet where we can go beyond storing information on 1071 01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:14,200 the Internet, actually storing things of value, things of value 1072 01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,720 like wealth, things of value like ownership of a home. 1073 01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,680 This is what they call the new wave of the Internet, an 1074 01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,400 Internet of value and the technologies there. 1075 01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,800 In fact, when you think about Bitcoin or Ethereum with these 1076 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:31,520 others, what they really are is protocols that allow us to store 1077 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:35,280 value on the Internet as opposed to the way we've been doing it 1078 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,640 in human society for only the last 400 years. 1079 01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,240 Storing value in basically an IOU from a financial 1080 01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:44,040 institution. And as we've learned in the last 1081 01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:46,760 40 years, during which the Internet has never gone down, 1082 01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,800 banks have failed, including three banks of America's top 20 1083 01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:55,640 just in the last three years. So moving value storage on the 1084 01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,120 Internet is an idea whose time has come. 1085 01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,720 OK, you got that. Kind of I'm going to ask you 1086 01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,200 this. So on call for number 4, this is 1087 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,280 the number of crypto millionaires that's been 1088 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,000 surging, OK? So I think one of the things 1089 01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,840 that happens and you had a good question to him initially, which 1090 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,280 is what does it mean for you? Because when most people are 1091 01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,400 thinking about their themselves like, well, I don't understand 1092 01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,440 this stuff. So I don't know how to invest in 1093 01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,960 it. One thing you said is crypto is 1094 01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,360 the umbrella, right? Is that right? 1095 01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,040 And Bitcoin is one type of crypto and there are lots of 1096 01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:28,920 different types of crypto. So there, what's a good crypto 1097 01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:30,440 and what's a bad crypto? How do you know? 1098 01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,520 Right. So just just as there's multiple 1099 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:37,240 protocols for storing information, there's HTMLHTTP. 1100 01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,400 They all do different things. Some are good for website 1101 01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,200 establishment, some are good for e-mail. 1102 01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:46,160 In a similar way, different cryptos allow you to store 1103 01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,240 different values. Bitcoin, which is the most 1104 01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:51,640 widely known and has had the most spectacular success, might 1105 01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:55,600 be the equivalent, as you said, Bill, to digital gold in in the 1106 01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:57,920 previous world, the analog world. 1107 01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:03,720 What cash was to gold in the digital world, digital money may 1108 01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,680 be to Bitcoin. Let me give you another example. 1109 01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:12,240 We live in a time where one out of every $4.00 has been printed 1110 01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,240 in the last five years. We are the actively debasing our 1111 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:21,240 currency and at the same time Bitcoin has in into its design 1112 01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:24,600 program scarcity. You can never have more than a 1113 01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,280 certain amount of Bitcoin and so the dollar is depreciating. 1114 01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:33,280 Bitcoin is appreciating. Quick factoid, in 2018 the 1115 01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:37,520 average American home would have cost you over $260,000 and over 1116 01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,960 400 Bitcoin. Today, the average American home 1117 01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:45,880 is now over $460,000. It would cost you less than 5 1118 01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,560 Bitcoin. So I'm going to leave it that 1119 01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:51,560 mean and just open the the conversation, like just open it 1120 01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,040 up to the panel and just just discuss about this. 1121 01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:59,760 What the F is going on? What like like Doc, could you 1122 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:06,080 have ever have imagined this Brother, back in the 20/16/2017 1123 01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:09,520 era, we were in the trenches. We were saying the institutions 1124 01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,400 were coming. Could you have ever imagined? 1125 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:18,120 I mean, that is the former head of the CFTC basically educating 1126 01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:21,080 the Fox anchors, you know, number go up. 1127 01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,120 This is better than owning real estate. 1128 01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:24,640 You know, he didn't get everything right. 1129 01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:28,160 You know, in terms of of of I don't think he did a a great job 1130 01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,240 differentiating Bitcoin with crypto. 1131 01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:34,120 He could have done better there. But you know, what world are we 1132 01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,640 living in? I mean that sounds like simply 1133 01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,280 Bitcoin when on Fox business, essentially. 1134 01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:41,760 What's your take, Doc? I had Opti's like Nah. 1135 01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:51,480 I think I'm muted, but so I don't think you're going to get 1136 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:57,160 anything more bullish on that topic than what you just got 1137 01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:00,840 from a former CFTC chair. Like it's not perfect, you know, 1138 01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,480 right, Like the big corner and you just cringes a little bit 1139 01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,320 when he starts talking about Ethereum and other cryptos and 1140 01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,480 he doesn't differentiate. I get that there. 1141 01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,000 It's very instinctual. I get it, as he was talking, I'm 1142 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:17,840 sure you guys did as well, but as a whole, you're not going to 1143 01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:24,880 get a better bull case scenario than that guy going on Fox News 1144 01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,240 with his reputation, his standing, his connection to his 1145 01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:33,880 network and basically just raving about Bitcoin. 1146 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,720 I mean, he was raving about Bitcoin and talking about how, 1147 01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:40,479 you know, it's time has come. He was talking about protocol. 1148 01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,200 He was talking about a lot of things that you would hear in 1149 01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:49,120 Bitcoin or circles. Now, I think this is going to be 1150 01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:53,279 a trend where it's very much like that. 1151 01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:56,319 I don't know if you guys have ever seen that, That video, It's 1152 01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:59,560 almost like a meme of like some guy just dancing out in a field 1153 01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:01,760 alone. And then eventually like more 1154 01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,800 and more people join and then it becomes kind of cool to do it 1155 01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:06,359 and then eventually everyone joins. 1156 01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:12,680 I think it's becoming cool to do it now, especially with the 1157 01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,920 traditional financial folks. These people don't want to be 1158 01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,479 left behind. They don't want to look like 1159 01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,680 they are Luddites in the modern world. 1160 01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,200 And one way to not look like a Luddite is to get on the Bitcoin 1161 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,680 train, understand what's happening, be an advocate for 1162 01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,680 it, and say, hey, I was one of the early ones in my field, 1163 01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,680 which is traditional finance, to advocate for it, to own it, to 1164 01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:38,720 support it. I think that's what we're seeing 1165 01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:39,960 now. These guys in the traditional 1166 01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,120 finance world. They're starting to have these 1167 01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,520 conversations. And let me tell you what guys, I 1168 01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:50,080 it's, it's shocking, I know, but I speak to regulators all the 1169 01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,960 time because we run a financial platform and is registered with 1170 01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,760 SEC and FINRA. You guys would not believe the 1171 01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,240 amount of people in those organizations that are 1172 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,480 Bitcoiners. You would not believe it. 1173 01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,960 The people that are in those organizations are individuals 1174 01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,360 just like you and me and they own Bitcoin. 1175 01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:14,880 They talk about Bitcoin. They ultimately are waiting on 1176 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:21,680 the framework to meet the innovation, but very, very 1177 01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:26,200 sympathetic to Bitcoin within the organization from very many 1178 01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,320 individuals. Absolutely 100% man. 1179 01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:36,440 And, and I'm, I'm excited to, to, to hear more about it. 1180 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,880 And you know, and I'm, I'm sure that a lot of what you just said 1181 01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,320 motivated you into rolling out your business. 1182 01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:48,160 You went stealth mode for a long time, my friend. 1183 01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,920 You just poof. And you came back with a suit. 1184 01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:52,960 What happened in between I wanna know. 1185 01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:56,320 Yeah wait wait, Nico, before we get into all that cuz we're 1186 01:10:56,320 --> 01:11:00,320 gonna give you doctor Bitcoin MD a whole 20 minutes to do that. 1187 01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:02,320 I just wanna mention one thing guys. 1188 01:11:02,440 --> 01:11:06,560 All I heard in the beginning was Donald Trump wants 150 K day 1189 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:08,200 one. Let's go. 1190 01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:11,360 I fully endorsed this message. I am all with that. 1191 01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:15,280 So January 20th, 150K Bitcoin confirmed. 1192 01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,520 And then the the last part that Doctor Bitcoin MD was saying, it 1193 01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,680 kind of goes into what we've been saying on the show for a 1194 01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:26,720 while that I think everyone kind of understands Bitcoin and 1195 01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:28,320 understands the incentives of Bitcoin. 1196 01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:32,680 But these big mega corporations that do have, you know, a lot of 1197 01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,480 stipulations and regulations surrounding them. 1198 01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,600 They just can't fully, you know, put all their money into Bitcoin 1199 01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:41,040 yet. But we're slowly seeing that 1200 01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,360 change. And just to keep this short. 1201 01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:47,680 So I do want to give Doctor MD a couple a good, good moment. 1202 01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,800 The one thing that I was talking about was thinking the whole 1203 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,160 time, I mean, you know, Bitcoin MD kind of mentioned it is the 1204 01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,320 cringe. And I just realized we're going 1205 01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,880 to we're going to come up with a whole new round of shit coining. 1206 01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,680 And now it's not just coming from shit coiners. 1207 01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:05,520 It's going to come from, you know, these suits and these 1208 01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:10,000 regulated institutions and people with PhDs and, you know, 1209 01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,960 academic backgrounds and like men. 1210 01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,360 I, I just, I don't know if I'm ready for all that Nico, but it 1211 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,840 seems like we're going to get a whole new round of shit coining 1212 01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:22,040 and man, I'm not that excited for it, but hey, it is what it 1213 01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:23,920 is. You know there's only Bitcoin 1214 01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:25,720 be. A shit coin extravaganza. 1215 01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:27,000 But I don't. I don't want. 1216 01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,480 The thing is, I don't want Bitcoin. 1217 01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:31,560 I don't. I don't think Bitcoin needs any 1218 01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,760 special privileges. I don't want the government to 1219 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,040 pick who the winners and the losers are. 1220 01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:39,200 Bitcoin is is a superior asset. Bitcoin's going to win on its 1221 01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:43,680 own. Listen, look, no altcoin has 1222 01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,360 made an all time high on Bitcoin terms. 1223 01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:48,960 Like they could have made an all time high in dollar terms since 1224 01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,600 2021. But if you check, if you compare 1225 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,040 that you should be, you should be judging your net worth in 1226 01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:58,720 Bitcoin, not in dollars. You'll see that every altcoin, 1227 01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:02,680 at best it's an oscillator, but it's an oscillator on the way 1228 01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,760 down. So like, you know, ETH had an 1229 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:10,520 all time high versus Bitcoin. It hasn't broken, it's gone up 1230 01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:12,320 and down. Like I said, it's oscillated, 1231 01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:17,120 but it still hasn't broken that all time high that it's made a 1232 01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:20,400 couple years ago. It's just kind of on the way 1233 01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:25,360 down and everything in the world goes progressively down as it 1234 01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,680 compares to Bitcoin, right? So yes, I think we're going to 1235 01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:34,080 be heading straight head first into this shit coin 1236 01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:36,640 extravaganza. But we're protected by this 1237 01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,520 orange field, orange force field of Bitcoin, right? 1238 01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,640 Anyways, guys, stay tuned. We're going to talk to Doctor 1239 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:44,760 Bitcoin. We're going to find out where he 1240 01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,600 went. He was, you know, one of the 1241 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:52,680 most hardcore Bitcoin Maxis on X, formerly Twitter for the 1242 01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,280 longest time. And he just disappeared. 1243 01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,600 Said in case I'm going to focus on my health, I'm going to focus 1244 01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:01,760 on some things disappeared, disappeared off the face of the 1245 01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:03,680 planet. And then he messaged me like a 1246 01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:05,640 couple months ago, said Nico, I'm back. 1247 01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,520 You know, he's been working on a company and he shows up today in 1248 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:10,200 a suit. So we're going to find out 1249 01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,360 what's he what he has been working on. 1250 01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,040 So everybody stay tuned for the culture. 1251 01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,920 We will be right back. I want to give a shout out to 1252 01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,080 our sponsor. Hive Digital Technologies As the 1253 01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:26,640 first ever public miner, Hive's been battle tested through every 1254 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:31,760 possible market and as the first with an AI strategy, Hive 1255 01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,680 continues to redefine the future of sustainable energy. 1256 01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,080 Also got to casually drop this in here. 1257 01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:42,400 Hive consistently tops the industry in Bitcoin mine. 1258 01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:44,000 Per. Exahash. 1259 01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:47,000 They're lean and mean, they're green and clean, and they're 1260 01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:50,440 changing the the game. Learn more by following them at 1261 01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:53,120 Hive Digital Tech or check out their website, 1262 01:14:53,320 --> 01:15:09,460 hivedigitaltech.com. All right everybody, we are back 1263 01:15:09,860 --> 01:15:15,380 and I want to tell you about our sponsor, Big Block B 2025. 1264 01:15:15,380 --> 01:15:19,460 It's going to be hosted in Dallas, TX, April 3rd, 4th, 5th, 1265 01:15:19,460 --> 01:15:24,960 and 6th of of 2025. Bit Block Boom is one of the 1266 01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:27,080 best Bitcoin conferences of the year. 1267 01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:30,480 In fact, it's the Bitcoin conference where me and Opti met 1268 01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:35,000 in real life for the first time. So it's a very special place in 1269 01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:38,200 simply Bitcoin's history. The Bit Block Boom conference is 1270 01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:40,880 the perfect conference for you to meet some of your favorite 1271 01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:43,920 Bitcoiners and potentially to get a job in the industry. 1272 01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:46,640 And you want to get your tickets quickly because the prices do 1273 01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:49,600 increase over time. The next price increase is going 1274 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:56,480 to be in 21 days, but if you use promo code BBB 21, you'll get a 1275 01:15:56,480 --> 01:16:00,000 small discount to Bit Block Boom 2025. 1276 01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,920 We hope to see you guys there. The entire Simply Bitcoin crew 1277 01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,080 and family will be there. So hope to see you guys in the 1278 01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:08,680 flash. We will be doing the production 1279 01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:11,000 for the conference. It's going to be a great time. 1280 01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:13,640 See you guys at Bit Block Boom. Anyways, I want to pivot the 1281 01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:15,680 conversation. What's up bro? 1282 01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:17,320 How are you? How have you been? 1283 01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,640 Where have you been? How's life? 1284 01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:21,720 Good to see you're doing well. You're in a suit. 1285 01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:24,240 Every time I see someone in a suit, I'm assuming they're doing 1286 01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:25,720 well. So what's up dude? 1287 01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,480 I'm doing really well. I just want to point out that 1288 01:16:29,480 --> 01:16:31,080 it's a Sport coat and not a suit. 1289 01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,760 Not quite there yet. Maybe one day, maybe one day, 1290 01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:40,800 you know, I actually want to tell everyone here a story and 1291 01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:46,160 Nico's a part of this story. You know, most of most of the 1292 01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,000 people in chat, most of the people that are listening know 1293 01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:51,680 me as Doctor Bitcoin. Yes, I, I was a doctor, I was an 1294 01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:54,200 academic. I dealt with that life and that 1295 01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:57,800 path for a very long time. You know, COVID happened, 1296 01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,600 craziness happened. I wrote all, all about that in 1297 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,600 Bitcoin magazine. People can read about it there. 1298 01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,960 I'm not going to rehash that. Eventually I decided I wanted to 1299 01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:09,880 leave that and I did it with no plan whatsoever. 1300 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:14,120 The first thing I did was actually go to the Bitcoin 1301 01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:19,080 conference in Miami. I believe it was 2021 if I'm not 1302 01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:24,040 mistaken. And I was I was on AI was on a 1303 01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:27,680 panel in 20/21. It was about Bitcoin maximalism 1304 01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:36,800 and it was me, Nico, Alex Fetsky and Bitcoin Twitter OG that that 1305 01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:42,800 I love Bitcoin lurk and Nick Hoffman was, was the one that 1306 01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:49,400 was coordinating everything. And what people don't know about 1307 01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:54,600 that is before everything started, we were all backstage. 1308 01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:59,400 We were getting ready to go on and we ended up getting news 1309 01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:07,440 that Ross Ross Ulbricht was essentially being punished, 1310 01:18:07,440 --> 01:18:10,000 getting being put in solitary confinement. 1311 01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,000 And we, we had a feeling it had something to do with all the 1312 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:17,720 conversations about him and freeing Ross at the conference. 1313 01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:24,080 And so when we were backstage, everyone was just really, really 1314 01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:28,480 upset really, you know, it was, it was very difficult. 1315 01:18:28,480 --> 01:18:30,520 His mother was back there and it was just, it was tough. 1316 01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:32,600 It was tough scenes, to be quite honest with you. 1317 01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:35,360 And so we went on stage. It was a little awkward. 1318 01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,920 We did our best and it was a good panel. 1319 01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:41,440 We all enjoyed it. And, you know, now, three years 1320 01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:45,440 later, it's just really funny to me how life comes full circle. 1321 01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:50,080 You know, I end up launching a company called Time Stamp. 1322 01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:54,240 I'm on a show with Nico. Nick Hoffman did an article on 1323 01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:57,320 it for Bitcoin Magazine, and Ross Aldrick was set to get out. 1324 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,840 And so it's just wild. This world is wild, man. 1325 01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:07,880 It's so freaking wild, dude, and I just want to add like that. 1326 01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:12,560 So that was my first foray into Bitcoin conferences. 1327 01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,360 I've never spoken at Bitcoin conference. 1328 01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:18,120 And I remember seeing Alex Gladstein backstage and I was 1329 01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,000 like, dude, I'm kind of nervous. I've never spoken now. 1330 01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:23,320 Like you put me in front of 30,000 people, I'll just be 1331 01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:25,880 like, yeah, what's up? But like back then, if you, if 1332 01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,840 you hear that panel, like you can hear my voice quiver because 1333 01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:33,000 I was nervous and and it was my first Bitcoin conference and 1334 01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,040 they put us on the mainstage, right. 1335 01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:39,880 And I remember I went up to Alex Gladstein. 1336 01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:41,560 I said, hey, man, I'm kind of nervous or whatever. 1337 01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,280 Like, you know, like this is pretty crazy. 1338 01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:45,480 Like I've never done this before. 1339 01:19:45,480 --> 01:19:48,560 And Alex Gladstein just looks at me and he's like, not that many 1340 01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:51,440 people do. And he just walks away, does 1341 01:19:51,440 --> 01:19:53,840 Mike skancha just and then he just walks away and I'm like, 1342 01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,120 holy shit. And then I remember what you 1343 01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:59,120 were saying. They were playing a recording of 1344 01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:02,920 Ross over the thing right over, you know, to the mainstage. 1345 01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:04,960 And we were following up on that. 1346 01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:07,960 And that was the panel. And the name of the panel was 1347 01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,320 like, why Bitcoin maximism is important? 1348 01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,760 And one of the things that I said, which is if you're against 1349 01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:16,400 Bitcoin maximalism, you're against Bitcoin. 1350 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,600 If you're against Bitcoin, you're against freedom went 1351 01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:20,760 viral. Eric Voorhees was triggered. 1352 01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,320 He was like shortly after, and it was actually quoted by the 1353 01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:25,920 Financial Times, right? Which is nuts, right? 1354 01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:29,800 And mind you, one of the things that Nick asked me during that 1355 01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,360 panel was he asked me about Simply Bitcoin. 1356 01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:39,240 Simply Bitcoin had 600 subscribers on YouTube 600. 1357 01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:46,400 And I pitched the idea of Simply to the entire crowd, the Bitcoin 1358 01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,720 2020 or Bitcoin 2021 crowd. And I said I have an idea about 1359 01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,040 a YouTube channel. Let's use some of the tools and 1360 01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:56,560 track tactics from a lot of the altcoin channels and let's 1361 01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,360 supply it to Bitcoin. That was just an idea in my 1362 01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,200 head, right? Fast forward four years later, 1363 01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:06,160 right? It's like Holy Bejigas, what is 1364 01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,800 going on here? And then of course, all the 1365 01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:11,920 things that have happened along the way, the ups and downs, But 1366 01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,080 I think that's normal when you're building a business and 1367 01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:19,280 Doctor M doctor Bitcoin MD, it's the same thing. 1368 01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:22,320 Brother, you, you were there and you weren't wearing a suit 1369 01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:25,040 there, my friend. And you were just like the rest 1370 01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:30,640 of us in AT shirt or something. And one of the things that I 1371 01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,600 remember one of our last interactions was and it wasn't 1372 01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:35,880 an interaction with me personally, but one of your last 1373 01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:40,400 interactions with X was like, hey, I'm going to I'm gonna 1374 01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:42,720 focus on my health. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go full 1375 01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:47,200 time into Bitcoin and I'm gonna work on something and I'll be 1376 01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:49,400 back. Usually when people say that 1377 01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:53,240 they never come back, right, They never come back either. 1378 01:21:53,480 --> 01:21:55,680 They're they've hit their goal stack. 1379 01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:57,360 I was telling this to Opti, though, I don't care how much 1380 01:21:57,360 --> 01:21:58,480 money I have. I'm going to be doing this 1381 01:21:58,480 --> 01:22:02,880 forever because I love this. But but you know, either they 1382 01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:05,440 hit a goal in their head and and they just they're like, I don't 1383 01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:06,840 want to deal with social media anymore. 1384 01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,520 I've been on social media too much F this and they kind of 1385 01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:13,800 just disappear. They kind of fizzle out or, you 1386 01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:15,880 know, they're just kind of sick and tired of it or it just 1387 01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:19,920 didn't work out. You actually came back and you 1388 01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,880 came back stronger than F, man. And this is like the perfect 1389 01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:28,040 segue to your project, which is called Timestamp. 1390 01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:33,360 And by the way, you can go to timestampfinancial.com if you 1391 01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:36,240 wanna check it out. So I'm just gonna read this and 1392 01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:38,920 I'm gonna pass it on to you, Doctor Bitcoin MD. 1393 01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:42,320 So for audio listeners, in the beginning of Time stamp, on the 1394 01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:46,920 home page, it says invest in founders pioneering the future. 1395 01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:49,480 So I'm going to give you the floor, Doctor Bitcoin. 1396 01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:53,320 What is time stamp? Why should our audience care? 1397 01:22:53,440 --> 01:22:56,840 What are they looking into? Is this potentially investing in 1398 01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:58,960 Bitcoin companies? What's your take? 1399 01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:03,080 So I'll give you a little bit more back story as to why I 1400 01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:05,120 started Time stamp and then tell you a little bit about what 1401 01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,400 we're doing now. So directly after that 1402 01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:11,840 conference, I was out of medicine, out of academia. 1403 01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:13,680 I was taking a break from everything. 1404 01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:17,200 I didn't have a plan. I didn't have an idea as to what 1405 01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:20,640 I was going to do with my life. But I knew one thing is I wanted 1406 01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:22,560 to work in Bitcoin, I just didn't know how. 1407 01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:26,280 So I tried a few things. I tried to do like a few small 1408 01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,240 jobs here, a few small roles here at some Bitcoin companies 1409 01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:32,760 that were very gracious to me, but I never found the right fit. 1410 01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:34,000 And it was for a couple of reasons. 1411 01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:38,000 One, I have an odd skill set, you would say a medical doctor 1412 01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:39,960 is not something most startups need. 1413 01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:48,520 And two is I realized I needed to be my own boss very much. 1414 01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:52,280 I I like the classic Bitcoiner type. 1415 01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:59,480 Like I just, I, I couldn't, I couldn't work with people's 1416 01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,360 visions that were not matching my own. 1417 01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:06,240 I needed to go my own way and I was working with some fantastic 1418 01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:08,720 people to be quite honest with you and they deserve their own. 1419 01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:11,280 Dude, I I learned that the hard way too, brother. 1420 01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:12,840 So I feel you. Yeah. 1421 01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:18,600 So, so honestly, what, what I ended up doing is I dropped 1422 01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:20,600 everything. I, I dropped everything in my 1423 01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:22,960 life and I moved to Austin, TX for a bit. 1424 01:24:23,440 --> 01:24:29,280 No plan, no job, no friends, just hanging out, going, going 1425 01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:31,160 to see Bitcoiners, getting to know them. 1426 01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:38,760 And man, it's inspiring because what I ended up doing is 1427 01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,960 basically putting myself at the bottom of a different totem 1428 01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:43,360 pole. You know, I'd spent my whole 1429 01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:47,000 life working my way up medicine and academia to the point where 1430 01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,640 I was comfortable and I was doing well from a professional 1431 01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:53,480 standpoint. And so to go from that to 1432 01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,840 starting at the very bottom in the Bitcoin world in terms of 1433 01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:59,920 actually making it a career, that was very humbling. 1434 01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:04,360 But I got some good advice early on, which was ask questions, 1435 01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:06,560 talk to a lot of people and learn. 1436 01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,760 Don't, you're not here to start anything just yet. 1437 01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,560 You need to learn. And that was the best advice I 1438 01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:14,720 could have gotten. I talked to a lot of builders in 1439 01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:16,400 the space. I talked to a lot of investors 1440 01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:21,320 in the space. And the biggest thing I found 1441 01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:26,360 was that there was a, a disconnect between the community 1442 01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:29,320 and Bitcoin. The ones you see on Twitter and 1443 01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:33,400 Auster and a lot of the founders in the space, the capital 1444 01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:37,240 markets around Bitcoin and open source companies were lacking. 1445 01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:42,080 If if you've ever tried to raise money in the space, you realize 1446 01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:44,800 that there's only a handful of people that you generally go to 1447 01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:49,240 BCS and Angel investors. And once you're done with those, 1448 01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:51,640 once those options are exhausted, you're kind of stuck, 1449 01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:54,400 right? And so for me, I was running 1450 01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:58,160 into so many founders that were building incredible things. 1451 01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:04,560 And I wanted a way for them to be able to put themselves out 1452 01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:09,760 there and be able to reach the community and have them be able 1453 01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:14,640 to invest in these companies. Now, easier said than done, 1454 01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:19,760 right? How do you get normie retail 1455 01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:26,800 investors or specifically bitcoiners involved in Bitcoin 1456 01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:28,560 companies and open source companies? 1457 01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:33,560 Well, I did something that I thought I would never do is go 1458 01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:35,840 directly to the regulatory bodies and work with them. 1459 01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:38,800 It's like. Oh my God that's wearing the 1460 01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:40,760 suit bro. It all makes sense. 1461 01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:44,440 So dude, you, you asked me, you asked me 3-4 years ago. 1462 01:26:44,440 --> 01:26:47,560 Like would you ever work with any of these regulatory bodies? 1463 01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:50,280 I'd say absolutely not. That's insane. 1464 01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:55,720 That's not me. But what I realized is in the 1465 01:26:55,720 --> 01:27:00,440 Bitcoin space, there are people that build lifeboats and there 1466 01:27:00,440 --> 01:27:03,840 are people that build bridges. There are plenty of people that 1467 01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:09,720 are building lifeboats, whether it's no KYC exchanges or wallets 1468 01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:12,480 or hardware wallets or what have you, right? 1469 01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:17,000 And these people are building things that people are using, 1470 01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:21,600 especially when they have no other options or they're 1471 01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:25,560 desperate or whatnot. And I realized that there also 1472 01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:28,240 needs to be people that build the bridges. 1473 01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:33,920 And so our goal was to maximize access in this space is to allow 1474 01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:37,160 as many people to be able to invest in these companies as 1475 01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:40,440 possible and for founders to reach as many people as possible 1476 01:27:40,440 --> 01:27:45,160 for investment. So we ended up over a year and a 1477 01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:49,360 half, but working with these regulatory bodies and over the 1478 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:52,600 summer of this year, we actually got approved to become an 1479 01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:55,800 investment platform for Bitcoin and open source companies that's 1480 01:27:55,880 --> 01:28:00,000 open to all investors. So time Stamp financial Time 1481 01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:04,240 Stamp is an investment platform for Bitcoin and open source 1482 01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:06,240 companies that's open to everyone. 1483 01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:10,280 Accredited, non accredited, US international. 1484 01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,400 Everyone can now invest in these Bitcoin companies. 1485 01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,640 That's awesome, man. And and it and we see so like 1486 01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:22,720 I'm thinking about like something like because he's a 1487 01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,080 friend of the show too, like something similar to like what 1488 01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:26,640 Moz does with Lightning Ventures. 1489 01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:29,840 Is that correct? It's it's a similar idea in that 1490 01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:32,440 we want to get as many people involved. 1491 01:28:32,440 --> 01:28:36,720 We want to build a community, we want to be able to offer options 1492 01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:39,560 to people. I think what's exciting with 1493 01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:44,520 what we're building right now is that the, the demand, the the 1494 01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:46,760 excitement around it has been electric. 1495 01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:49,800 We've actually already signed eight companies to the platform 1496 01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,800 in less than a few weeks. These are companies that are all 1497 01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:57,040 over the spectrum in terms of where they're coming from. 1498 01:28:57,040 --> 01:29:00,640 But we have two deals that are live now on the platform, JP and 1499 01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:03,320 Cascader that are both coming out of Pleb Lab. 1500 01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:08,560 We have Open Agents, which is has come out of Wolf and they're 1501 01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,360 backed by Hive Minds. So some VC backed more mature 1502 01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:14,320 companies. We have people like Sovereign 1503 01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:18,720 who's coming up in Q1, who is the former CTO of River that 1504 01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:21,200 started that. And then we have also a couple 1505 01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:24,000 that are not listed there, which I'd like to announce. 1506 01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:27,840 One of them, Alex Betsy's companies, Atlantis will be 1507 01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:30,680 raising on time stamp in Q 1/20/25 as well. 1508 01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:33,600 So we have a lot of companies that are coming through our 1509 01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:35,640 doors saying this is something we want. 1510 01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:37,720 We want to be able to reach a community of people. 1511 01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:40,440 We want to be able to reach Bitcoiners, and we want these 1512 01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:43,000 people to be involved. We want them to be investors in 1513 01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:46,920 our company because it gives them an access to these 1514 01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:50,000 investment opportunities. But they're also builds a 1515 01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:53,960 different type of skin in the game where these supporters that 1516 01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:56,640 were once just liking and retweeting things on Twitter are 1517 01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:58,720 saying, wow, that's cool that you're building that can now 1518 01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:00,400 actually be invested in these companies. 1519 01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:02,880 That's awesome, man. That's very, very cool. 1520 01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,760 And you know, Svetsky's a personal friend and friend of 1521 01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:09,800 the show and that's been hearing so much about SAT Atlantis. 1522 01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:13,040 I think he, I think he first brought up and he did a 1523 01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:16,280 presentation about it in my data at that Bitcoin conference over 1524 01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:19,960 there. And shout out to Andre and Co. 1525 01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:23,400 And you know, it was, it was very interesting. 1526 01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:26,120 It's, it's very, I'm very glad to hear that that's going well 1527 01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:29,600 that he's going to be raising money on your platform. 1528 01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,720 And it's very exciting. Like from a couple perspectives, 1529 01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:36,800 right from like you're doing good by Bitcoin entrepreneurs. 1530 01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:39,640 Like for anyone doesn't understand capitalism or 1531 01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:44,400 anything like the world works because entrepreneurs take risks 1532 01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:49,000 and they build things that you would like and they take a lot 1533 01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:50,800 of risks for that. Nothing is certain. 1534 01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:55,920 You know, the majority of them lose and then sometimes some of 1535 01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,280 their ideas turn out to be great products. 1536 01:30:58,280 --> 01:31:02,360 So, you know, the microphone that I'm using right now was 1537 01:31:02,360 --> 01:31:05,760 eventually that was an idea of dreamed up about an with an 1538 01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:10,760 entrepreneur, the camera, the laptop, the cell phone, simply 1539 01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:15,440 Bitcoin, You know, it's I these these things are just hopes and 1540 01:31:15,440 --> 01:31:21,880 dreams that people come up with. And part of that process is, you 1541 01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:26,160 know, being able to raise money. And by being able to raise 1542 01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:28,840 money, you're able to kind of fund operations or grow 1543 01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:31,680 operations. And that's just kind of the way 1544 01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:34,920 that things go, right? You know, and just being an 1545 01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:38,320 entrepreneur myself the last four years, just thinking I was 1546 01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:40,520 just going to be, you know, a hobby. 1547 01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:45,640 And then, you know, it morphed into a podcast and then now it's 1548 01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:48,120 morphed into a media company. And me and Opti are just looking 1549 01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:49,320 at each other like, what the fuck? 1550 01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:51,480 What did we do, bro? How did we do this? 1551 01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:57,640 I have, I have no idea. And just looking back like, you 1552 01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,000 know, you're, you mentioned that the Bitcoin conference in the 1553 01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,960 beginning, looking back, you're just like, I cannot believe how 1554 01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:05,920 we got here. So, you know, you're essentially 1555 01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:10,320 not only funding the hopes and dreams of entrepreneurs, but 1556 01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:15,400 you're potentially funding some of the latest and greatest, you 1557 01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:19,320 know, simply bitcoins or latest and graded strikes or latest and 1558 01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:23,560 greatest, you know, Bitcoin wells, a public company. 1559 01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:27,160 So that doesn't make sense. But you know, latest and 1560 01:32:27,160 --> 01:32:30,600 greatest passports foundations, right, that are just in the 1561 01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,000 beginning, the early phases and they're just trying to get on 1562 01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:36,880 the ground and you're, you're not only funding their dreams, 1563 01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:39,000 but you're also taking a bet on them, right? 1564 01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,400 So, so this is, this is something I want to touch on 1565 01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:45,440 here because I think this is, this goes to why I started this 1566 01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:50,760 in the first place. I think the look, we're, we're 1567 01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:53,880 all betting on Bitcoin in some sense, we're all saving in 1568 01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:58,440 Bitcoin. However, I think there is a next 1569 01:32:58,440 --> 01:33:01,600 step to saving in Bitcoin. It's investing in the Bitcoin 1570 01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:04,600 standard is how how do you put your money to work. 1571 01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:08,640 And there are very few things that are worth investing in that 1572 01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:13,200 are going to either out compete Bitcoin or offer you some type 1573 01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:20,640 of return, whether it's monetary or not that will make you feel 1574 01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:25,040 like you made a good investment. So This is why I say, you know, 1575 01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:28,320 you save in Bitcoin, you invest in Bitcoin companies, you invest 1576 01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:30,400 in the Bitcoin standard. These are companies that are 1577 01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:33,720 building the infrastructure to make the Bitcoin standard 1578 01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:36,880 possible. You have education companies, 1579 01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:41,520 entertainment companies, you have hardware wallets, you have, 1580 01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:45,680 you know, new things like AI agent marketplaces that are 1581 01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:49,000 payable in Bitcoin. These are things that are only 1582 01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:54,480 possible if these founders get the funds to build their dreams. 1583 01:33:54,480 --> 01:33:59,240 And so when I built time stamp, I wanted to be very particular 1584 01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:02,560 with how we built the incentive structures because I believe one 1585 01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:06,280 of the reasons why Bitcoin is what it is, is the incentive 1586 01:34:06,280 --> 01:34:11,120 structures that underlie Bitcoin propelled to success. 1587 01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:14,960 So when it comes to time stamp for founders, we wanted to make 1588 01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:18,000 it extremely founder friendly. So we charge nothing upfront. 1589 01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:22,840 So a founder, even if you're fresh and you and you don't have 1590 01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:27,200 funds in the bank account to spend on legal fees and, and, 1591 01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:29,840 and all the set up for that, we don't charge you anything 1592 01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:31,640 upfront. We make our money on a success 1593 01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,880 based Commission. And so your success is tied to 1594 01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,680 our success. And we believe that pushes us to 1595 01:34:38,440 --> 01:34:41,920 great heights together. And then for investors, time 1596 01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:45,880 stamp is free to join. Everyone has access to these 1597 01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:49,960 investments. You can view the investments and 1598 01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:51,760 then when you're ready to invest, all you have to do is 1599 01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:53,720 sign in and go through the investor flow. 1600 01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:58,440 And when you do that, you can do so with relatively low minimums 1601 01:34:58,440 --> 01:35:02,120 compared to other avenues. If anyone in the chat or anyone 1602 01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,880 listening has ever tried to invest in companies before, 1603 01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:09,480 they've often found that it's not accessible because, well, 1604 01:35:09,480 --> 01:35:12,720 first and foremost, they don't have the funnel to the deal. 1605 01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:15,960 So they don't get informed of a lot of these deals often times. 1606 01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:20,240 And 2nd and most importantly is oftentimes these investment 1607 01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:23,520 minimums are very high. So if you want to invest with a 1608 01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:26,600 venture capital fund, you'll have to write a check that's 1609 01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:30,160 oftentimes 6 figures, if not more to be a part of that. 1610 01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:32,960 And once you do so, the decision is out of your hands. 1611 01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:35,760 Those venture capital firms are capital allocators. 1612 01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:37,840 They take your money and they invest on your behalf. 1613 01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:40,840 The reason they make their money is they're good at it, right? 1614 01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:43,920 Supposedly some are good, some are bad, but they take your 1615 01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:46,760 money and they invest on your behalf and some are great at it. 1616 01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:50,640 And I don't think that this is an either or situation. 1617 01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:53,160 I think what's what's going to happen is you're going to see 1618 01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:56,960 companies that are raising through their community and also 1619 01:35:56,960 --> 01:35:59,880 raising through traditional VCs and getting the best of both 1620 01:35:59,880 --> 01:36:02,040 worlds to propel them to success. 1621 01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:04,080 I love that. I love that, man. 1622 01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:06,520 This is, this is incredible. This is great. 1623 01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:11,600 I love what you've built in stealth all these years and this 1624 01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:13,800 is this is incredible, man. This is awesome. 1625 01:36:14,080 --> 01:36:17,120 Giving the people access to potentially some of the latest 1626 01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:20,440 and greatest Bitcoin companies. Guys, go to 1627 01:36:20,440 --> 01:36:26,160 timestampfinancial.com. Doctor Bitcoin and I have a long 1628 01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:28,280 history. This guy's, this guy's the real 1629 01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:29,680 deal. He's a true Bitcoiner. 1630 01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:32,560 So even though he's wearing a suit, you can't trust them. 1631 01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:34,560 I do vouch. I do vouch for him. 1632 01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:38,960 Sport coat but but yeah, guys, go check out time 1633 01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:43,680 stampfinancial.com go give doctor Bitcoin MDA follow on X 1634 01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:47,720 to to stay tuned with the latest and greatest that he's doing. 1635 01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:49,600 I congratulate him on his business. 1636 01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:51,920 That's really, really cool. Glad to hear that he's been 1637 01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:55,640 building and this was simply Bitcoin live for December 11th 1638 01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:57,760 2024. I'm your host Nico. 1639 01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:01,880 It's my Co host Optimus Fields and our guests for today, Doctor 1640 01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:04,440 Bitcoin MD. We'll see you guys tomorrow for 1641 01:37:04,440 --> 01:37:07,560 a brand new episode. Today's episode was brought to 1642 01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:11,120 you by bitcoinwell.com, a Bitcoin only platform on a 1643 01:37:11,120 --> 01:37:13,480 mission to enable financial independence.