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All right, we're here in Miami 
Beach with I'm such a fan, Jeff 

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Booth, the author of Price of 
Tomorrow and GP at Ego Death 

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Capital. 
Thank you so much for joining 

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me, Jeff. 
No pro. 

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I really, really appreciate it. 
Great to be here and like what a

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beautiful Swatch. 
Well, thanks for coming. 

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And I, I've, I've been enjoying 
our conversations so much. 

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Every single time you absolutely
blow my mind. 

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I think what I've been going 
through recently and just kind 

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of like my Bitcoin journey is 
the idea of inflation and how 

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much it's like ruin society. 
And I, I guess my first question

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to you is what a lot of people 
look up on YouTube is how much 

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Bitcoin do you truly need to 
retire? 

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I, I don't think very much it, 
it depends on how long you can 

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hold it, but I, I, I think it's 
and I don't want this to be 

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click baity, so please don't put
this in the title, but I think 

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it'll have infinite purchasing 
power eventually and I can walk 

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through why if you'd like. 
Absolutely. 

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OK. 
So if you if you said the the 

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current all assets in the world 
currently equal about $900 

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trillion underneath those assets
is about $600 trillion of debt. 

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And if you include all of the 
liabilities and I'm unfunded 

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liabilities and but 600 trillion
and so if that debt went 

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insolvent, all of those assets 
are worthless, right, Because 

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everything would collapse. 
So people are measuring their 

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assets within a system that that
debt is already insolvent and 

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they're pretending that debt is 
solvent, that debt requires more

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and more manipulation of money 
forever, exponentially more 

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manipulation of money so that 
the assets don't collapse and 

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everything within that system 
doesn't collapse. 

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So we're at the almost end of 
days. 

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It could go on a bunch longer, 
but that system is getting more 

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and more centralized, more and 
more controlled. 

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And because it has to, we'll go 
into that afterwards. 

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But every single asset. 
So instead of thinking 900 

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trillion of assets, think my 
house within that, this building

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within that, or if that debt 
weren't insolvent, this place 

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would be worth nothing like 
nothing, right? 

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So there would be complete 
chaos. 

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And, and So what does that say 
to you? 

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It says it won't go insolvent in
that way because you wouldn't 

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let it if a government allowed 
the debt to completely collapse 

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and everything to collapse and 
it to be anarchy in that in that

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way every last man for himself. 
You would before that happened 

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vote for more centralization and
control. 

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You wouldn't let the bank fail. 
So when I say it's going to 

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collapse to 0, it won't collapse
to zero and instead there will 

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be liquidation, more and more 
manipulation of money. 

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So from bitcoins perspective, if
you just said you have an open 

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decentralized, secure protocol 
bounded by energy and and that's

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my kind of five criteria on what
the on what this is. 

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So that system bounded by 
energy, as long as it stays 

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decentralized and secure. 
The only thing that would change

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this is if somehow Bitcoin broke
and wasn't decentralized and 

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secure, but that system bounded 
by energy will reprice all $900 

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trillion of assets. 
All it's not, it's not. 

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Bitcoin isn't within the system.
It's outside the system bounded 

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by energy. 
There's a really important 

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differentiation. 
You know this. 

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Many Bitcoiners know this, but 
many Bitcoiners know it. 

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And at the same time, they're 
pricing it as an asset within 

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the system. 
OK, so it's outside if you hold 

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it in self custody, if it stays 
decentralized and secure, 

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founded by energy, it will. 
It is repricing that entire 

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system over time. 
So what does that mean? 

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So you take that 900 trillion up
today of purchasing power, not 

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900 trillion of paper money of 
purchasing power and you divide 

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it by 21 million and or if you 
said that, how many lost coins? 

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You divide it by a smaller 
number, but let's say that 

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number equals 43,000,000, 
approximately 43 million of 

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purchasing power in today's 
currency of Bitcoin. 

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But what would happen from that 
system? 

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From that system, you're living 
in the first global free market 

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that has ever existed. 
And from that system, prices 

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fall every year. 
Prices as we automate, as AI 

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moves faster and faster, as AI 
merges with robotics, as the 

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free market adds more people to 
the free market and those ideas 

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compete to provide us value, 
prices fall forever ever 

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relative to that 43,000,000, so 
that 43,000,000 gains more and 

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more value forever. 
So if you had a small percentage

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of a Bitcoin into in time, that 
would be enough to live forever.

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And it's just all we're talking 
about is the timing of when that

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happens rather than does that 
happen so. 

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I think, and you know this, I 
appreciate our conversation so 

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much, Jeff, because I think you 
Take Me Out of that perspective.

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I mean, it's very difficult. 
You're the one that actually 

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told me this. 
It's very difficult to imagine 

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that system within the existing.
System. 

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It's impossible. 
Yeah. 

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It isn't in the system. 
In other words, we have no, You 

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have to use first principles and
then ask what will happen will 

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be because of that, What will 
happen because of that? 

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What will happen because of 
that? 

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Because all of our. 
When I think about this, I think

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about all of our mental lattice,
all of our books, every single 

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other thing we've ever written 
is within the system. 

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We've always lived in a control 
system. 

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It's never been a global free 
market. 

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We've we've always Co opted 
money. 

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When people say gold is actually
the store of value, it hasn't. 

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It's failed many times. 
It gets repriced, it gets 

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centralized. 
If gold was actually the price 

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that the free market says it is,
it should be about $80,000 an 

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ounce. 
So it's suppressed through 

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derivative instruments. 
It's suppressed. 

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Nobody knows how much gold each 
central bank has. 

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And you have a you have a paper 
currency on top that gold isn't 

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audited every 10 minutes. 
So we pretend it acted like a 

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store of value because of that 
could get better store of value 

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than others. 
But we don't have a mental model

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for what a real store of value 
or not a store value, a real 

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network protocol bounded by 
energy looks like because all of

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the stuff is in our mind is in 
this other system. 

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What's? 
Stopping Bitcoin from not 

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falling in the footsteps of gold
in terms of it potentially being

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captured. 
And I'll give a little bit of 

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context. 
You know, we have 3% of the 

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supply apparently owned by 
MicroStrategy. 

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The vast majority of their ET of
the ETF's are custodying their 

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Bitcoin with Coinbase. 
It's a tremendous amount of 

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trust, right? 
And just one institution really 

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that's custodying the Bitcoin 
for all these institutions, all 

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the, you know, these public 
companies as well. 

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Isn't that exactly what happened
to Gold? 

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Is it really is a exactly and 
and it's a really good question 

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because of that and because of 
that it it should break your 

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mind out of the trap that it's 
in. 

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It won't for all Bitcoiners. 
So but it will for some and over

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time. 
But I put a bar at least for me 

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in Bitcoin when I even though I 
keep saying over and over and 

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over again, if it stays 
decentralized and secure, that's

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my caveat to Bitcoin repricing 
the entire system. 

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What would not make it stay 
decentralized and secure? 

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Exact. 
One of the things is exactly 

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what you talk about. 
If in over 5000 years in history

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we've always centralized and 
we've always believed that 

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inflation is natural and 
deflation is unnatural, then 

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it's not Bitcoin, it's us that 
centralizes. 

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It's is it human? 
Nature, it's human nature, it's 

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creed, fear. 
And when we and and fear, in 

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fact, a lot of control 
mechanisms are created by 

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creating fear in us that then we
usurp or we give our control, we

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give our time away through fear 
because somebody else will 

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protect us, right? 
And so that's an age-old trick. 

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It's how false flags work. 
It's how so to be able to create

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to create that that fear. 
If I knew everything about 

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Bitcoin and I couldn't stop it 
every other way, I did social 

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attacks, I did climates, it's 
bad for the climate. 

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I did all of these things. 
If I couldn't stop it, what I 

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would do is I would try to Co 
opt it. 

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If I knew everything that I knew
and I was an adversary, I would 

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try to Co opt it. 
I would say I'm so for this, 

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we're going to regulate it to 
make sure that that our country 

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wins on it. 
And I would get people to trust 

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my centralized one because it 
was safe, right? 

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That sounds very familiar. 
Jeff, so, so all of the actions 

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that we see here. 
And then what would what would 

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those people be doing what those
people would be doing over time 

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that many of the Bitcoiners 
today would make so much money 

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in that centralized system. 
They wouldn't be bitcoiners 

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anymore, right? 
They would be trading their I've

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won, I'm there. 
They would move over this. 

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They would be moving out of self
custody in. 

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To the system. 
Trading the system to trade 

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their Bitcoin for a piece of 
paper. 

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And they would. 
And the Bitcoin would be 

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centralizing, as a matter of 
fact. 

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And it would be, it would seem 
so normal because they were 

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pricing from a Fiat system from 
and that's Fiat system had to 

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drive inflation. 
So it had to centralized at a 

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faster and faster rate, but 
because they would think they 

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were getting rich within that 
system, it would Co opt them 

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into that system. 
And I think many, many 

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bitcoiners are going to do that 
along the way and they're going 

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to sell. 
They'll do OK everything else 

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and they won't be bitcoiners. 
The question is how many more 

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join and understand what Bitcoin
really is for humanity. 

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Yeah, how many people keep going
because most of those people 

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that do that don't run nodes. 
They're deferring their judgment

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to somebody else. 
And the people that run nodes 

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and and more so in time it'll be
economic nodes and and how many 

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and transactions what are those 
look like on the network? 

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Those are the gatekeepers to 
Bitcoin. 

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So now let's just keep playing 
this this over. 

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And This is why I talk about 
this all the time because the 

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two systems are incompatible. 
If you're measuring from this 

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Fiat system that they it price 
go up, you are part of the 

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centralization. 
I can't say that any other way. 

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It is a first principle. 
You are part of centralization 

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right as you really come to 
understand Bitcoin and you 

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become an ode. 
You become someone at the gate 

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defending that sovereign 
sovereign. 

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You become nobody tells me what 
to what to do. 

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You realize that you're one of 
the people that is protecting 

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all of humanity, moving into a 
system of hope, truth, and 

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abundance. 
Most people don't know that. 

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Mostly some will know. 
Some are going to get killed on 

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the way through or destroyed on 
the way through. 

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00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,960
But you're moving your time into
a system that's that's a 

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competitive cooperative global 
system. 

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So it's still competitive. 
Free market is massively 

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competitive. 
You have to provide value to 

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somebody else on their terms to 
get paid. 

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But everybody wins by that. 
And the more people in it, more 

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people win because it's what I'm
saying is so unclear to most 

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people, right? 
They're still measuring Bitcoin 

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by the other system. 
They're measuring prices in the 

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other system. 
They're giving more control. 

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Everything they're doing is 
feeding a narrative left or 

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right and, and well, well, 
everything in that is sucking 

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out more of their, their power 
and energy and energy and time 

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and time, but they don't know 
it. 

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So they're like, that's going to
continue to happen. 

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But as long as Bitcoin stays 
decentralized and secure, in 

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other words, those nodes don't 
accept the control system. 

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00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,640
What would happen when that 
control system says we're 

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changing? 
It has to be the Fiat Bitcoin. 

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00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,480
It would look like B cash on 
steroids, right? 

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00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:17,080
It would look like 2017 on 
steroids and in the first little

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bit there would be a lot of 
people and threats of you have 

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to convert, right. 
But as long as those nodes and 

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people and all over the world 
and if you think about game 

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theory here, yeah, I doubt, I 
doubt that that system, so that 

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that would be hyper 
bitcoinization, that system 

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trying to attack or trying to 
attack Bitcoin. 

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I suspect that system would then
be liquidated. 

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It reveals the man behind the 
curtain in a way, right. 

228
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,800
And in a way, it reveals the 
fact that despite governments 

229
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:53,120
having a monopoly on violence, 
their attempts become futile if 

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00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,040
Bitcoin remains decentralized. 
Now when I was preparing the 

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00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,040
questions for this interview and
just when you're talking to me, 

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00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,560
it seems like, Jeff, what you're
describing is that there 

233
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:09,000
inevitably is going to be some 
type of clash between the 

234
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:14,560
previous system, the existing 
system, the controlling system 

235
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,360
and the system that we all want,
which is Bitcoin. 

236
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,040
And and when you say we all 
want, I don't know if so, I 

237
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,640
don't know if people have 
thought that many steps ahead, 

238
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,480
right? 
And so I know you want it. 

239
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,400
I know I want it. 
And we're public figures and I 

240
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,480
know tons of other people, most 
of the people running nodes, I 

241
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,840
know what they want and they're 
not going to. 

242
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,600
But if you asked most people on 
the street, they think so. 

243
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,120
Think bitcoins a scam. 
Well, they're worried about the 

244
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,200
left and the. 
Right, there were and and they 

245
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,720
don't understand. 
And the first step into Bitcoin,

246
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,600
it is normally the price go up, 
right? 

247
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,640
I'm making more money, right? 
And and so it's how many people 

248
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,640
I just think about this as a 
giant funnel with 8 billion 

249
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,360
people on the planet. 
And, and as you go deeper and 

250
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,840
deeper into Bitcoin, you never 
go back up because what? 

251
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,160
Because going going back to the 
other system after you really 

252
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,080
understand this one, it actually
doesn't say anything about 

253
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:11,160
Bitcoin. 
Says. 

254
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,000
Something about you says 
something about you. 

255
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,280
But we also know throughout 
history, people cheat people. 

256
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,520
And when I say cheat, I'm 
talking about from a game 

257
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,360
theoretical perspective. 
People will do what they need to

258
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,800
do for their family, for their 
money. 

259
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,880
And they will say, say, I have 
enough. 

260
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,840
I I can escape. 
But there is no escape from a 

261
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,680
centralizing system. 
So do what you'd ask there. 

262
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,320
That clash, it's inevitable. 
And that clash has been going on

263
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,760
over and over and over since 
Bitcoin was discovered or 

264
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,640
invented. 
It's that there's been a 

265
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,040
centralized system. 
A control system cannot allow 

266
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,760
Bitcoin. 
Yeah, can't, because they're two

267
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,480
different systems. 
You almost have to say it 1000 

268
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,000
times to yourself. 
The natural state of the free 

269
00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,440
market is deflation. 
Yeah, Which means you've never 

270
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,120
lived in one. 
No. 

271
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:08,160
Unless you've been denominating 
your net worth in Bitcoin, you 

272
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,800
have been experiencing you. 
You're living on one, yes, 

273
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,960
you're you're living in the 
first global free market that 

274
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,320
has ever existed. 
And as more and more people on 

275
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,200
this network, as more and more 
people build to it and move 

276
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,840
their time to it, we are both 
the map and the territory, it 

277
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,960
starts to expand and you start 
to see a totally different 

278
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,520
experience than most people over
here measuring their control 

279
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:33,400
system. 
See. 

280
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,160
And you look at them and you 
think for me too, for a long 

281
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,560
time I was, am I the crazy one? 
Then I go back and 10 years ago,

282
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,800
I didn't really know this much 
about Bitcoin. 

283
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,440
And so I was in that system 
thinking I was in a normal 

284
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,800
system. 
And so it just, it takes, it 

285
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,600
takes a while to really 
understand that. 

286
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,120
Absolutely. 
I think it takes. 

287
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,760
I think you got to pay your 
dues, you got to stick around a 

288
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,640
couple cycles. 
You've got to endure the 

289
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,560
volatility. 
You got to earn your stripes to 

290
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,600
have your Bitcoin in self 
custody, to have many heart 

291
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,120
attacks when your hardware 
wallet breaks and you got to 

292
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,720
recover the seed phrase, you 
know, set up a multi sig on your

293
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,360
own and you know, pay your dues 
as a bitcoiner. 

294
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,000
And then you understand the 
sovereignty that it gives you. 

295
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,680
And then you imagine the world 
where I know it's cliche, but 

296
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,040
I'm going to use the reference 
anyway. 

297
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,080
You understand how many people 
are still in the matrix. 

298
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:32,120
And my next question to you is 
the phenomenon of inflation 

299
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:37,680
being treated as if it's part of
nature, the way that politicians

300
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,000
talk about it, like the excuses,
the war in Ukraine, you know, 

301
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,520
it's the it's a trade war. 
It's this. 

302
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,080
They blame everything and 
anything but themselves and 

303
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,080
people buy into it. 
And, and my whole view of 

304
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,440
politics has completely changed 
because the way that I'm, I'm 

305
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,160
seeing it now as a Bitcoiner is 
modern politics is essentially A

306
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,040
popularity contest and the 
winner essentially controls the 

307
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,440
money printer for their, their 
side, right? 

308
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,200
That's what it looks like from 
my angle. 

309
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,520
So my question to you is like, 
when is this psyop end? 

310
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:13,119
Like so many people believe that
inflation is, is just a fact of 

311
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,200
life, like goods go up over 
time. 

312
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,119
Naturally, they don't even 
question it. 

313
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:19,839
Yeah. 
And so where does that come from

314
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,839
and where does that psyop end? 
And if it's been part of our 

315
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,800
history for 5000 year and people
believe it and that's why I said

316
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,920
they have to ask or they have to
say the natural state of the 

317
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,600
free market is deflation 1000 
times. 

318
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,640
And they have to keep saying it.
Because when I, when I say that,

319
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,920
I didn't say from zero 
inflation, somehow politicians 

320
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:44,200
and economists get productivity 
growth mixed up with growth. 

321
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,760
Productivity growth has faster 
deflation. 

322
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,720
And so people talk about this 
AI, that as we create more AI, 

323
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,720
we're going to be able to pay 
back the debt. 

324
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,080
It's so insane. 
Now, as we create more AI, you 

325
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,600
have faster deflation, which 
causes the debt to default, 

326
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,960
which means you have to create 
more monetary units, which is 

327
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,600
exactly what I laid out in my 
book. 

328
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,640
Yeah, So natural rate of 
deflation from a free market 

329
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,720
should be over 5% right now. 
Yeah. 

330
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,200
Meaning every human being on 
Earth would get richer by 5% a 

331
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,960
year. 
Every single year, every single 

332
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,160
every single human being in 
Africa, in South America, every 

333
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:23,880
single human being on Earth 
would get. 

334
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,040
Rich by but, but the 
implications of that are very 

335
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,160
serious, because if they're not 
getting richer by 5% every 

336
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,440
single year, who is getting 
richer or? 

337
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,200
So, so the point, that's the 
point that all centralizes and 

338
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,280
the and the puppeteers behind. 
Now it's easy to say it's those 

339
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,920
people. 
If you had a centralizing force 

340
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,600
like that, you were at the top 
of that. 

341
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,680
You'd spend all your time trying
to retain power in that and 

342
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,640
manipulating time. 
And but it's more why I try to 

343
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,360
keep saying there is no they, 
because what gives rise to that 

344
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:01,120
is US. 
It's, it's not them, it's us 

345
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,560
Believing that that is, is 
normal If you just keep start 

346
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,040
with the natural state of the 
free market is deflation. 

347
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,280
You have to ask, where does 
inflation come from? 

348
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,560
And I'm not talking about 
inflation from zero. 

349
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:18,280
I'm talking from the inflation 
from -5 or -10 or whatever the 

350
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:19,840
productivity rate is in the 
world. 

351
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,040
Where does inflation come from? 
It only comes from one thing, 

352
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,640
manipulation of money. 
Yeah, only. 

353
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,120
And I don't think many people 
have gone to many Bitcoiners 

354
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,400
have gone down that path. 
Very few people have really gone

355
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,520
to the bottom of what does that 
mean? 

356
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,120
What does it mean for me if I'm 
measuring in that system because

357
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,360
I'm contributing to that system.
Yep. 

358
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,560
And then the more I do in that 
system, and the more I think 

359
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,840
it's somebody else turn the 
mirror around, the more it's me.

360
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:51,520
Yeah, right. 
The more focus and attention 

361
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,640
you're putting towards it, would
it be safe to say? 

362
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,080
And one of the things that I see
is it, and it's fascinating to 

363
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,040
me again from a Bitcoiners 
perspective, the opposing 

364
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,280
parties, essentially the 
politicians blaming the opposing

365
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,320
side for rising prices, which is
hilarious to me. 

366
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,120
And my question to you is, do 
governments fear? 

367
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,720
Falling prices themselves 
because it's like people are 

368
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,960
like seeking the solution from 
the wolf, right? 

369
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,880
Instead of just saying 
government, you know, because 

370
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,640
Bitcoin is that people are 
trapped in a jail cell, right? 

371
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,600
Screaming at their, and I've 
said this many times, screaming 

372
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,520
at their captor while the jail 
cell is open because you have an

373
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,640
open monetary, you have an open 
protocol. 

374
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,120
So they just would walk over any
single person on the planet. 

375
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,320
So when we talk about would 
politicians see this or would 

376
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,240
this person see this? 
Or would we just have to say, 

377
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,880
would you, right? 
Would, would every person see 

378
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,080
this? 
And I would venture to say a lot

379
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,560
of Bitcoiners right now who call
themselves Bitcoiners still 

380
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,600
don't know, right? 
And still they, they would fall 

381
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,560
for these traps, those people, 
those people, those people. 

382
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,480
And they would give that more 
energy because they're still 

383
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,000
measuring in a Fiat currency. 
They're still measuring and 

384
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,600
price go up. 
Yeah, right. 

385
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,400
They're still centralizing. 
They're essentially moving from 

386
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,120
self cast city to non self cast 
city to trade a derivative 

387
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,320
instrument. 
In other words, they're 

388
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,640
increasing their risk to move to
the centralized system. 

389
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,280
Yeah. 
And so, so if if many bitcoiners

390
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,680
are still doing this, and of 
course, politicians, of course, 

391
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,160
other people who don't know this
yet are doing it. 

392
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,920
And This is why the system 
change is so chaotic and so hard

393
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,280
because it's actually not the. 
It's us. 

394
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,800
It's our cognitive dissonance of
where we're going to spend our 

395
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,360
time. 
And that's happening to 8 

396
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:44,480
billion people on the planet. 
And it's going to take time. 

397
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,360
Yeah. 
And a lot of people are going to

398
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:49,520
fight this. 
So what would you expect to 

399
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,640
happen from the from the, from 
this if you've always lived in a

400
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,520
system of theft? 
Always. 

401
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,440
And that system had to 
centralized more and more 

402
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,200
because it's based on stealing 
that productivity that should 

403
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,040
flow to all humans and 
centralizing it up. 

404
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,240
Then you have to ask who would 
win back from such a system? 

405
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,800
And if you're giving more power 
to that system and complaining 

406
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,000
about the people who are winning
from that system, maybe it's not

407
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,320
them, it's you. 
The power comes OK Power comes 

408
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,280
from us. 
The power comes from people 

409
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,040
choosing to participate in that 
said system with their voice, 

410
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,840
their time and their money. 
If we all, as I hate to use the 

411
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:34,440
word collective but as a whole, 
decide to opt out and just to 

412
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,640
participate in the alternative 
system, it takes power away. 

413
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,000
From that system, they're 
incompatible together. 

414
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,760
OK, one has to so this so all 
the centralization. 

415
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,400
So when people say I'm not going
to do this because I'm worried 

416
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,440
about what the government will 
do later, they're feeding their 

417
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,920
worst fear. 
They're they're in a 0 sum game,

418
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,880
getting worse and worse and 
worse and their fear is stopping

419
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,080
them from moving to self 
sovereign. 

420
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,920
Joe, I want to tell you about 
the best place to build your 

421
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,480
automatic self custody Bitcoin 
stack. bitcoinwell.com. 

422
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,240
What makes Bitcoin well, 
different? 

423
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,000
What makes it unique? 
It's an automatic self custody 

424
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,840
Bitcoin on ramp. 
What does that mean? 

425
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,320
That means that when you buy 
Bitcoin on Bitcoin, well, as 

426
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,920
soon as the funds clear, it goes
straight to yourself. 

427
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,240
Custody Bitcoin wallet address, 
which perfectly aligns with the 

428
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,600
Simply Bitcoin ethos, because 
after all, self custody is the 

429
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,120
revolution. 
By the way, if you go to 

430
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,280
bitcoinwell.com/simply as soon 
as you make your first purchase,

431
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,280
you get 3 opportunities to win 
up to 1,000,000 Satoshis just 

432
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,560
for signing up and buying a 
little bit of Bitcoin seems like

433
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,400
a win win. 
What are you waiting for? 

434
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,320
Go to bitcoinwell.com/simply 
today. 

435
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,040
What is the role of government 
in a world on a Bitcoin 

436
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,760
standard? 
It gets smaller and smaller and 

437
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,480
smaller and smaller as more of 
the productivity units move to 

438
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,160
the population for forever. 
Now, why this is a hard thing to

439
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,000
understand is, is this change? 
All of these changes don't 

440
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,360
happen. 
One day we're on one system, one

441
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:11,760
day we're in another and 
everything resolves itself. 

442
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,080
It's constant resolving. 
But if you just ask yourself or 

443
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,280
most Bitcoiners that have gone 
deep down in the rabbit hole, if

444
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,280
you ask them what does their 
life look like today versus what

445
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,840
it looked like before, they 
would all generally say when 

446
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,840
they get to that point, what a 
beautiful and credible 

447
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,640
relationships, everything their 
life is getting better and 

448
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,640
better and better. 
And I think this is also what 

449
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:41,120
creates some inside that those 
Bitcoiners pushing harder and 

450
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:45,360
harder on their friends to try 
to get them to understand and 

451
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,240
sometimes pushing their friends 
away because it's it's so 

452
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,920
incompatible. 
The ideas are so incompatible 

453
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,600
because they want to help their 
friends and feel what they feel.

454
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,960
And then as they feel like, they
just move to a different, lot of

455
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,560
times, a different group of 
friends. 

456
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,320
And through that, that system 
and how chaotic that's going to 

457
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,120
be on it. 
Like if you just asked what 

458
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,800
would it look like? 
Many of these people will try to

459
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,240
cheat the system because they 
don't have any record 

460
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,160
recognition that. 
So if you think of it, FTX, if 

461
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,320
you think of all of these 
things, if you think of it, 

462
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,680
Ethereum, if Vitalik just bought
Bitcoin instead of he was an 

463
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,720
early Bitcoiner. 
Yeah, he would own more Bitcoin 

464
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,880
than the other. 
So all of the people who've 

465
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,920
tried to cheat Bitcoin would 
have been better if they just 

466
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,920
held bitcoins if you look at 
Coinbase. 

467
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,120
Oh my. 
Well, Coinbase versus micro 

468
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:38,920
strategy, that's, that's a 
tragedy. 

469
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,400
It's a tragedy, but it's a 
perfect representation of 

470
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,240
somebody trying to cheat a free 
market and all of the song and 

471
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,080
dance So. 
So again, as this happens, why 

472
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:55,400
do we care if you don't have to?
If you move into the cooperative

473
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,360
competitive system, you're 
protected from all of that. 

474
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,080
And you know, logs of human 
nature is going to try to cheat 

475
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,600
this system. 
You know those the human nature 

476
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:09,120
is going to get ruined by by 
trusting the centralized system.

477
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,320
And you know for sure these 
systems are incompatible 

478
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,520
together. 
So how would it play out? 

479
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,840
So you asked about the 
government and what the 

480
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,560
government will get smaller and 
smaller. 

481
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,440
How will the government get 
smaller and smaller? 

482
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,280
Because because there's always 
been a global competition for 

483
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,320
labor and capital. 
Where will the best capital B, 

484
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,040
It'll be in Bitcoin. 
Where will the best talent be? 

485
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,040
That'll be in Bitcoin. 
And in this this I'm talking 

486
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,960
about Bitcoin, the protocol and 
all of the people building in 

487
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,640
the free market, the protocol 
and governments are going to 

488
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,400
want to track that capital and, 
and, and talent. 

489
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,520
So they're going to offer 
policies to get more on side 

490
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,880
with attracting that. 
And then other governments are 

491
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,440
going to offer more competitive 
policies to to try to attract. 

492
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,880
And what will that mean? 
It'll mean the centralized 

493
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,480
system, how bloated their 
governments are, have to come 

494
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,800
back in line. 
And it'll be a global 

495
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,800
competition that'll keep on 
going forever. 

496
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,800
And that that. 
So it won't look like a light 

497
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,240
switch one day, this one day, 
it's going to be messy. 

498
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,600
It's going to be messy and 
chaotic the whole way through. 

499
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,960
And I think it is with certain 
political ideologies today that 

500
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,440
are very popular do what you're 
describing essentially a pure 

501
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,440
free market. 
Some ideologies are really 

502
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,360
believe in that the idea of of 
equality via wealth or 

503
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:31,120
distribution. 
And this is very popular in 

504
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:34,320
modern day politics. 
Bitcoin essentially kind of 

505
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,520
makes that very difficult, does 
it not? 

506
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,440
It makes it impossible. 
So the only thing at least I'm 

507
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,640
willing to debate to anybody on 
this on how they're from a first

508
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,240
principle, the how their policy 
couldn't possibly work. 

509
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,680
If the rise of inequality is 
from printing money, which is 

510
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,680
theft from the free market, how 
could you fix inequality with 

511
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,440
more theft? 
I would venture to say anybody 

512
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,200
listening to your podcast that's
not a Bitcoiner yet I asked this

513
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,600
question to many people and say 
pick your problem you care about

514
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,480
most in the world, right, 
Whatever that is and it's taking

515
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,000
all your time and attention and 
tell me how that problem is 

516
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,120
solved by arbitrarily creating 
more monetary Unix, just more 

517
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:23,200
pieces of paper. 
Can that problem be solved? 

518
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:25,880
And when people are honest with 
themselves, I realize that 

519
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,000
problem gets worse. 
And then they start to see all 

520
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,720
of the, their imagined problems 
in the world, world are getting 

521
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,600
worse. 
If they go back ten years or 20 

522
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,680
years and all of these things, 
all these things they care about

523
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,360
are getting worse and worse and 
worse. 

524
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,280
And so, OK, why are they getting
worse? 

525
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,400
Because we're printing more 
money. 

526
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,840
So we're going to print more 
money and that's going to get 

527
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,440
better, right? 
So because you're, you're 

528
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,960
arbitrarily favoring the assets 
because the assets aren't are 

529
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,400
holding value better. 
And then those assets are taxed 

530
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,640
higher and higher and higher. 
So government gets bigger, more 

531
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,080
and more policy, more and more 
manipulating the free market to 

532
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,520
redistribute the same problem 
you caused in the 1st place. 

533
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,160
Yeah. 
Now let's compare that to 

534
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,040
Bitcoin, or let's compare that 
to the first global free market 

535
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,680
that ever existed. 
What that means is you have to 

536
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:21,240
create value in somebody else's 
terms to get to to, to be paid. 

537
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,600
It's a crazy competitive process
because you're competing with 

538
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,600
every person on the planet to 
create value for somebody else. 

539
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,480
The output of that is because 
all of those ideas come from our

540
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,760
minds to create this value as 
human beings through the free 

541
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,920
market. 
We are abundance creating 

542
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,080
machines out of scarcity because
anything that's scarce has a 

543
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,720
higher margin. 
Yeah, which attracts more 

544
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,200
entrepreneurs and different 
ideas to attack that scarcity. 

545
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,880
And that process has to be 
deflation because we only use 

546
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,360
the things that provide us more 
value. 

547
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,640
We are part of that. 
So in other words, in the free, 

548
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,040
in the free market, there's no 
coercion, there's no force, 

549
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,880
there's nothing. 
You're choosing when and how 

550
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,160
and, and what is a value to you.
You'll trade with somebody you 

551
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,880
don't like because they provide 
more value. 

552
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,880
You don't need a middle person. 
You don't need a middle person 

553
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,600
to tell you you can't trade with
that person, right? 

554
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,640
You'll trade with whoever you 
want to drive more value, and 

555
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,680
that force is unstoppable 
anyways. 

556
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,840
It doesn't matter. 
Bitcoin is imposing that because

557
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,200
I see centralized, secure, 
bounded by energy, protocol, 

558
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,440
bounded by energy. 
It's imposing that force. 

559
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,920
It doesn't actually matter that 
I care that it's imposing that 

560
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,080
force. 
It's imposing that force in the 

561
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,360
world today. 
But I would ask people who don't

562
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,680
even know what I just said 
there, why would you want to 

563
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,200
stop that? 
Yeah, why would you want to 

564
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,840
human nature? 
Yeah, exactly. 

565
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:49,920
Why would? 
Who is? 

566
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,160
Human, I would say human nature.
I would say human nature and the

567
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,160
lack of education and also I 
work in media narratives are 

568
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,480
extremely. 
Powerful. 

569
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,600
And maybe we just need better 
narratives. 

570
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,080
Or maybe we just need to repeat 
these narratives over and over 

571
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,280
and over again. 
Because if you repeat, the 

572
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,400
natural state of the free market
is deflation. 

573
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,680
And unless you can disprove 
that, it means you live in a 

574
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,240
control system. 
Yeah. 

575
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,720
Every single human lives in a 
control system. 

576
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,280
And their argument to bear on 
capitalism or Marxism or 

577
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,480
totalitarianism or socialism, 
all of those are a different 

578
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,000
version of a control system that
ultimately relies on my guys 

579
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,800
better than your guy. 
Yeah, right. 

580
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,560
Yeah. 
Fights forever, wars forever. 

581
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,040
Bitcoin is basically like there.
It cuts through all of it. 

582
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,600
There is no guy. 
There is no guy. 

583
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,240
So what would you say to people 
that they see the US government 

584
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,760
announcing A strategic Bitcoin 
reserve, they see BlackRock, 

585
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,960
they see micro strategy, they 
see the price of Bitcoin, you 

586
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,400
know, roughly in the 80 to 100 
KA 120K region. 

587
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,400
And you know, they believe like 
I make 50 KA year. 

588
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,920
I've missed this train. 
I've missed this opportunity to 

589
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,880
look at this. 
What's the latest thing now? 

590
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,240
I think it's mean coins, right? 
Look at this. 

591
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:10,440
Trump. 
Coin. 

592
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,960
Yeah, exactly right. 
Look at this Trump coin. 

593
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320
Like I could buy more Trump coin
than I caught than I can 

594
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,640
Bitcoin. 
So, you know, are people still 

595
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,000
late? 
Are people still late to 

596
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,360
Bitcoin? 
Are people late to Bitcoin? 

597
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:26,320
We started this podcast with it.
It's going to have an Infinity 

598
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,600
value. 
As it does, a lot of those 

599
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,560
bitcoiners trading in Bitcoin 
will trade their Bitcoin for 

600
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,040
services that provide them 
value, and it'll expand around 

601
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,360
the world. 
And more and more and more and 

602
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,520
more, we are so early on this 
path. 

603
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,400
Is there a perception we're 
late? 

604
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,960
There's a perception we're late.
It's just perception. 

605
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,840
And what that's saying is we're 
so early on this path that this 

606
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,840
is going to be, it's going to 
just be chaotic. 

607
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,360
It's going to be really chaotic.
And most people and many people 

608
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,760
won't know how early and maybe 
maybe they'll be the same. 

609
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,280
When I thought I was late, right
in 2017, because my technology 

610
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,080
team told me in 2011 and I 
dismissed it. 

611
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,600
When I first was in, too, I 
thought I was late. 

612
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,040
And when you look around at the 
world and you realize, wait, 

613
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,200
there's not 8 billion people 
talking about this yet, right? 

614
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,680
We're talking about what what 
this is. 

615
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,760
We are so crazy early. 
But will most people know that? 

616
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,520
No, most people won't know that.
It's really interesting that you

617
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,440
brought up when you got in, 
because I got in roughly the 

618
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:32,120
same time, 2016, 2016, 2017 era.
And I remember I knew people 

619
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,000
that got in at $50.00 or $100 
and $200 and I was like, you 

620
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,920
mean like bitcoins at 1000 bucks
or bitcoins at 3000. 

621
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,120
You know, like the hell no. 
Like this is insanity. 

622
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,760
And now, you know, sitting at 
these upper bounds and, you 

623
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,400
know, crosses 6 figures for a 
little bit, you're just like 

624
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,600
what? 
Was I thinking why shouldn't I 

625
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,080
back up I. 
Shouldn't I shouldn't like took 

626
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,600
it out loads or like anything 
possible, right? 

627
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,480
So yeah, I completely agree. 
And it's really interesting 

628
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,560
because you talk to the OGOGS, 
right? 

629
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,199
Like the people that were buying
it at a dollar or two dollars 

630
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,719
and they say the exact same 
thing because they met someone 

631
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,400
that bought it at like. $0.50 
Yeah. 

632
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,239
Yeah, $0.10, you know, so it's 
just interesting the the the 

633
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,800
relative this out. 
I want to hear your story in 

634
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,239
terms of you, the process of you
getting orange pelt, right, very

635
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,159
successful entrepreneur, built 
companies, managed teams. 

636
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,080
Why did you feel like you had 
the necessity to see something 

637
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,679
like Bitcoin? 
What interested you in it? 

638
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,719
I believe that we're all, a lot 
of times you'll hear something 

639
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,120
many times and then somebody 
else say so or you'll see 

640
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,000
something different and then 
you'll, and that was your idea 

641
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,360
the whole time. 
So I can't tell you because even

642
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,239
if I go back to 2011, my 
technology team, which was 

643
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,760
unreal and I trusted them and 
everything, why didn't I trust 

644
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,000
them here? 
And then you'd hear about this 

645
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,040
again, then you'd hear about it 
again. 

646
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,520
And so in 2017 and I didn't, it 
wasn't a big bet. 

647
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,280
I just I thought, OK, I'm going 
to just I'm going to play with 

648
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,960
this, I'm going to put some in. 
But it wasn't really until 

649
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,400
really in 2019, two thousand and
eighteen, 2019, as I was writing

650
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,240
my book and as I was writing my 
book, breaking down how these 

651
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:22,760
two systems were different, how 
the technology was going to move

652
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,760
faster and faster and people 
weren't ready to recognize and 

653
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,480
what would the existing system 
do? 

654
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,400
It was really through that 
process and in, I couldn't 

655
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,120
figure out a fix to that because
the system, the system we lived 

656
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,720
in and most people measured in 
and I lived in and measured, 

657
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,640
couldn't resolve the conflict 
that I was talking about. 

658
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,720
And all the human action from 
that system would divide us and 

659
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:48,400
it would get worse and worse and
worse like we're seeing today. 

660
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,880
And so through that process, 
that's when I really started 

661
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,680
driving into Bitcoin purchasing 
more understanding it, But to 

662
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,640
even say at the end of the book,
I specifically didn't make it a 

663
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,760
Bitcoin book because I wanted 
to, for myself to, I wanted to 

664
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,040
get to the root of the problem 
1st. 

665
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,640
And so there was only one 
paragraph about Bitcoin in the 

666
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,800
book. 
And I've said this on multiple 

667
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:17,280
podcasts, but I at that time, 
even though I was buying a lot 

668
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,720
of it, I, I certainly didn't 
understand Bitcoin like I 

669
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:24,040
understand it now. 
I assumed it had about a 5% 

670
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,520
probability of failure. 
I understood nodes, I understood

671
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,440
how it worked. 
But I, some of the questions 

672
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,480
that people asked today, why it,
why it'll centralized, why it'll

673
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,720
fail, I went through all of the 
same things. 

674
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,800
I would say I perhaps had a for 
me, when I look at some of the 

675
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,920
the arguments against at least 
some of the nonsense arguments 

676
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,200
against it, I almost like that's
cute because, because, because I

677
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,840
was once there too. 
And I spent so much time 

678
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,520
attacking this to say my general
principle is this if 5000 years,

679
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,760
we've never had a decentralized 
secure protocol bounded by 

680
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,840
energy. 
And this was this different 

681
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,560
enough to withstand the worst in
us, the greed, the fear, the 

682
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,120
worst in us. 
Was this different? 

683
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,800
Could it resolve that conflict? 
And at first that why I said 5% 

684
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,400
probability of failure is I 
didn't think so. 

685
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,400
I didn't think as all of these 
attacks came that this could 

686
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,880
stay decentralized and secure. 
And then as I, as I got way 

687
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,560
deeper, I realized because of 
the way the nodes work, because 

688
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,560
of the way they, because of the 
way the free market works, I 

689
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,920
actually can move my time into 
the system. 

690
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,080
And if I choose this, it doesn't
matter what everybody else, as 

691
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,800
long as there's enough people 
who are choosing this, it's 

692
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,240
protected. 
And then more and more people 

693
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,480
would do that they can actually 
move their. 

694
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:46,880
And so that's what you're 
seeing. 

695
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,880
You're seeing more and more 
people move their time into this

696
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,080
this network protocol and that 
that their time is resulting in 

697
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,880
a whole bunch of layers of 
technology in if you said 

698
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,960
lightning and fediment and and E
cash and Noster and other things

699
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,360
that are being built to protect 
to essentially expand the free 

700
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,040
market while the other word 
market is centralizing and and 

701
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,840
dying. 
And so we are all knows we are 

702
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,320
literally Bitcoin. 
Yeah. 

703
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,080
And the more and more of us that
are moving into it, the stronger

704
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,080
it becomes. 
Stronger it becomes yes, it's a 

705
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,640
way of looking at the world, 
yeah. 

706
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,320
And it's a way of of protecting 
essentially your time and your 

707
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,240
wealth, right. 
But there's also a a spiritual 

708
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:33,720
component, A philosophical 
component and ideological 

709
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,840
component that's baked into it 
as well. 

710
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,760
Yeah, which that phenomenon is 
really interesting because it's 

711
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,280
like, which is money, but it's a
lot deeper than that. 

712
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,480
So much deeper you've. 
Said Bitcoin fails if it doesn't

713
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,760
become a medium of exchange. 
What do you mean by that? 

714
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,160
So we, we already talked a 
little bit about it. 

715
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,480
If people are, so if people are 
centralizing and it's the medium

716
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,080
of exchange is in the Fiat 
currency, then it has to fail 

717
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:04,560
because they're, they're 
trusting it like they trusted 

718
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,600
gold only and gold failed. 
So we know for sure that if 

719
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,320
nobody's running, no spending in
it, if you're spending in the 

720
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,160
centralizing currency and that 
centralizing currency is based 

721
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,880
on theft, then you're part of 
the theft, you're part of that, 

722
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,240
you're part of that economic 
system that has to centralized 

723
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:26,640
further. 
You might get rich in it, but it

724
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,040
has to centralized further. 
Whereas if you're spending in 

725
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,920
the network protocol, that's not
part of that system, you're part

726
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,960
of the first global free market 
that's ever existed. 

727
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:38,560
Got you. 
What's really interesting, you 

728
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,600
know, is when I hear Secretary 
of Commerce Howard Lutnick 

729
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,160
continue to essentially say that
a Bitcoin is a commodity, I 

730
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,400
think on on another podcast, he 
says it it has to be seen as a 

731
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,160
commodity. 
It can't be seen as money. 

732
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,480
And then I start to connect the 
dots. 

733
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:02,720
The IMF sure did put a lot of of
effort into essentially trying 

734
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:07,560
to pressure a sovereign country 
into reversing the Bitcoin law. 

735
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,360
That would essentially make 
Bitcoin legal tender. 

736
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,360
Now, if you look under the hood,
it still functions as money. 

737
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,840
There's no cat, There's no tax 
implications if you use Bitcoin 

738
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,120
as as money in El Salvador. 
But they really put a lot of 

739
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,600
effort to try to force El 
Salvador into saying no, no, no 

740
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,080
Bitcoin. 
It can't be a legal tender. 

741
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,520
It has to be something else. 
And I'm just connecting the dots

742
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,680
with what Howard Lutnick is 
saying is like Bitcoin is a 

743
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,520
commodity, Bitcoin is a 
commodity, and then I'm 

744
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,120
connecting the dots with 
everything that you're saying 

745
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:39,920
there are. 
Any thoughts on that? 

746
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,720
This is something I saw five 
years ago, that this would have 

747
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:46,880
to play out, that's why. 
And the people would take 

748
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,200
different sides and it's going 
to be chaotic and we won't know 

749
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,520
what side somebody has actually 
on until they choose and they 

750
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,000
out themselves from first 
principles. 

751
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,000
The systems are incompatible 
together. 

752
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,800
So that would make perfect sense
that the IMF, which is largely 

753
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,360
controlled by the, by the US 
World Bank and everyone else, if

754
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,640
that was the system that they 
wanted, or let let's not say 

755
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,320
they certain people in, in, in 
parts of the government or 

756
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,920
organization wanted. 
It would make perfect sense that

757
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,080
this couldn't be a currency. 
Perfect sense. 

758
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,640
And you would do everything 
possible to slow it down from 

759
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,560
being a currency, including Co 
opting it and making the rails 

760
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,440
of your currency easier to 
transact into it. 

761
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:39,920
Your currency being tether or 
equivalent or stable coin. 

762
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,200
Because what is a stable coin? 
It's a guaranteed lost coin. 

763
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,680
That's all it is. 
Gains. 

764
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,080
It's gains its stability by 
losing against well. 

765
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:50,520
I have a question for you 
regarding stable coins, because 

766
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,000
I think Bitcoiners had this 
theory that specifically in 

767
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,680
countries that had relatively 
stable and unstable Fiat 

768
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,520
currencies that Bitcoin was 
going to come in and it was 

769
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,440
going to be widely adopted. 
Seems like stable coins have 

770
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,240
been becoming wildly a lot 
adopted specifically in the 

771
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:11,160
Global South. 
So why would that be true? 

772
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,080
And why would there a couple of 
things disable? 

773
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,920
Quinn gives 10 to 100 times 
better, better than those 

774
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,280
people's currency. 
Those people have always wanted 

775
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,240
US currency because it though is
relative to their currency, 

776
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:27,520
doesn't lose money as fast. 
Yeah, so it still loses money, 

777
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,520
but it doesn't lose as fast. 
And. 

778
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:31,840
And then we talk about 
perception, right? 

779
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,760
We talk about an understanding 
of a system change. 

780
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,800
Of course they're going to move 
to stablecoins because they have

781
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,280
something that's better than 
better than this. 

782
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,520
And at the same time, five years
ago Bitcoin wasn't, it couldn't 

783
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,320
really act as a medium of 
exchange. 

784
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,560
It's now being able to be act as
a medium of exchange. 

785
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,080
So stablecoins had an advantage 
there and they had a perception 

786
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,880
advantage with a lot of the lot 
of people in third world nations

787
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,720
that wanted the US dollar. 
Yeah. 

788
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,280
So it would be natural that that
would that would happen. 

789
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,800
The question is, if it's only 
that, then you have two 

790
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,200
different systems. 
That system is a centralizing 

791
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,840
system. 
It has to extract more and more 

792
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,040
and more. 
A lot of people inside it are 

793
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,200
going to get hurt eventually. 
And it's how many people move 

794
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,880
their time and energy to 
Bitcoin. 

795
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,320
Yeah. 
So it's very difficult. 

796
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,440
It's been very difficult for me 
to fully wrap my head around. 

797
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,280
I think it was the last podcast 
that we did that it finally 

798
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,120
clicked in my head. 
I don't remember that. 

799
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,600
Yeah, right. 
I was like, whoa. 

800
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,960
But just for the sake of this 
conversation, right, The general

801
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,680
consensus for most people right 
now is or not most people. 

802
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,000
Yeah, I would say most people 
and and the academics and the 

803
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,160
economists, they would make the 
argument that inflation is 

804
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,200
necessary because if if without 
inflation, people wouldn't 

805
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,600
spend, you know, governments 
wouldn't be able to, you know, 

806
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,840
pay their obligations. 
What would be your arguments 

807
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,840
against that? 
Yeah, so let's break those down 

808
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,240
one at a time so people wouldn't
spend. 

809
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,960
So let's let's look at the 
counter. 

810
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,800
So your TV's, your computer 
equipment, anything with Moore's

811
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,160
Law attached to it falls in 
price each year or you gain more

812
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,920
value each year. 
Do you still buy a phone each 

813
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,480
year or every two years even 
though, you know, two years 

814
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:25,920
later you're going to have a 
better phone? 

815
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,840
Answer is yes, right now. 
Do you still buy food? 

816
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,480
And answer is yes. 
Would you still buy food? 

817
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,680
Answer is yes. 
There's so many different things

818
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,960
that that you would still buy. 
And by the way, that argument 

819
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,160
with those things also assumes 
monetary pricing increase in 

820
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,560
those things. 
Those things will be far 

821
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,200
cheaper. 
But you would still buy. 

822
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,480
Yeah, we don't buy because 
because the counter argument to 

823
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,920
that, if we go one step deeper 
would be the only reason you buy

824
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,920
is because if you don't, we'll 
steal your money. 

825
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:58,880
Because that's what you're 
saying. 

826
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,080
If if people don't, if we don't 
have an inflationary rate, 

827
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,400
people won't buy. 
Which is absolutely. 

828
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,520
Just change those words. 
Just change those words. 

829
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,280
We have to steal people's money 
otherwise they won't buy. 

830
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,640
And we have to steal more and 
more of it to make them buy. 

831
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,840
Seems like why would you want to
build a system based on that 

832
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,160
theft? 
All the economists are right 

833
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,400
from the perspective of the debt
based system would collapse 

834
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,120
without if you allowed 
deflation. 

835
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,280
And if the money is so all money
is loaned into existence. 

836
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,200
When you go to a bank and and 
get a loan, that money is 

837
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,360
created out of the thin air to 
give you a loan. 

838
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,240
So you have an interest rate on 
that loan. 

839
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,840
So if all of that money globally
was paid back, there was no 

840
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,440
doubt. 
Yeah, there'd be no money. 

841
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,360
Yeah, right. 
So you can see why if you had 

842
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,880
allowed deflation where prices 
get cheaper and cheaper, that 

843
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,240
loan gets more and more 
expensive because you don't have

844
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:58,040
the money to be able to service 
the loan and that liquidates 

845
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,120
that entire debt stock. 
So the economists are right from

846
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:06,480
the perspective of a credit 
based economy requires inflation

847
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,200
to survive. 
But they're conflating do we 

848
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,400
require a credit based economy? 
Do. 

849
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,960
They need or it is that system 
needed. 

850
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,120
That system absolutely requires 
it, and that system is 

851
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:20,960
incompatible with the free 
market. 

852
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,440
And that's why it requires 
coercion in order to continue 

853
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,120
happening. 
And that's why the coercion will

854
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,240
just continue to increase and 
increase and increase. 

855
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,840
And all of those things are 
centralization. 

856
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,280
Yeah, right. 
All of those things create more 

857
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,720
and more the little, the, the 
little companies can't survive. 

858
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,280
The little banks can't survive 
they because it has to be 

859
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,120
centralized more and more over 
over time. 

860
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,640
It is not a free market. 
It's the opposite of a free 

861
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,160
market. 
It has to misallocate capital. 

862
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,000
It has to mathematically has to 
government has to get bigger 

863
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,120
because you're usurping the free
market and as you do, and those 

864
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,400
people can't live freely and 
have great ideas that contribute

865
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,760
to other people and society. 
The centralized market has to 

866
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,560
tell them what to do. 
So it has to be manipulation, 

867
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,800
coercion, control everywhere in 
that system. 

868
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:17,000
And there's so much noise around
conflating those two things, two

869
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:18,800
things. 
And that's actually what that's 

870
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,720
what Bitcoins repricing. 
Yeah, free pricing, all of that 

871
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:23,600
nonsense because it doesn't 
care. 

872
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,720
Every 10 minutes, new block, it 
doesn't care. 

873
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,800
Doesn't care what Drew Powell 
says. 

874
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,440
Yeah. 
It doesn't care what Trump says.

875
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,280
Doesn't care what she says, 
doesn't it? 

876
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,040
Doesn't care. 
TikTok next blog and then I I 

877
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,040
love this website called Priced 
in Bitcoin and it just shows you

878
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,360
just like everything goes down. 
Energy prices, Yes. 

879
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,600
Prices, Food prices, All prices.
Why would that happen? 

880
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,320
Because the natural state of the
free market is deflation. 

881
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:50,840
Yeah. 
And Bitcoin is pricing it 

882
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:51,480
perfectly. 
Yeah. 

883
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:52,560
First global free. 
Market, yeah. 

884
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,760
And then and then you see and 
then it's, it's interesting 

885
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,280
because when you see that and 
then you compare and contrast 

886
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,000
with what you know the 
politicians are seeing on TV and

887
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,320
you're like, we kind of. 
Already fixed this problem. 

888
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:07,120
It's already fixed, right. 
So and and and so now I'll say 

889
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:09,960
you're three different people, 
three different buckets of 

890
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,880
people. 
One you're you and I, we price 

891
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,680
in Bitcoin and many other 
bitcoiners that understand this 

892
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,480
at this end, we price in 
Bitcoin. 

893
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:19,840
We spend all our time in 
Bitcoin. 

894
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,000
We spend as much time as we can 
in it. 

895
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,280
We contribute our time to this 
new global system. 

896
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,600
What would our lives look like 
direct response of this 

897
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,280
competitive, it would be a 
mirror image. 

898
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,480
The more time you spent it would
be it would get better and 

899
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,480
better in that system. 
You're a bitcoiner that prices 

900
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,920
in the Fiat system, right? 
You think bitcoins going up and 

901
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,840
from your perspective it is 
going up. 

902
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,560
You're likely to centralized 
your clients, you'd likely to 

903
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,240
take more risk, but for you, 
you're making more money. 

904
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,960
Your asset is going up is you 
think it's only an asset. 

905
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,920
Your asset is going up faster 
than other assets. 

906
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,320
And from your perspective, 
you're right too. 

907
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,560
You're not in Bitcoin at all. 
You're this camp, the middle 

908
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,120
camp that's pricing Bitcoin. 
You're not in Bitcoin at all. 

909
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,040
Your government is telling you 
that those big monopolies are 

910
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,560
stealing your money and you need
to vote for me. 

911
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,000
You're right to and you're 
getting destroyed over and over 

912
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,160
and over again. 
Or you're on the other side of 

913
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,520
that and you think it's the 
socialist and you're on, you're 

914
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,200
on the technocrat side that 
transferring more power control.

915
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,520
You're right to. 
That's what. 

916
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,760
So from your perspective on this
system, all all would exist. 

917
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,520
It seems like as, as as a 
movement, because it's really 

918
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,680
what this is. 
We, we have a major narrative 

919
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:46,480
problem, like we need more 
education, more narrative, at 

920
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,280
least to get people on our side.
Or or when you say that isn't 

921
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,520
even necessary. 
Not, not really. 

922
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,400
I just so in a, in a 
decentralized secure protocol, 

923
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,880
it's bound to be that's never 
existed, that never existed in 

924
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,440
human history. 
It's, it's our own cognitive 

925
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:08,440
dissonance falling away, coming 
to, to understand that the truth

926
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,960
that then moves more and more 
people over. 

927
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,320
But it's there is no one 
narrative in in Bitcoin and I 

928
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,960
don't know if there should be 
anyone narrative from Bitcoin. 

929
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,040
I would say maybe not the 
narrative of Bitcoin, but I'm 

930
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,640
saying the narrative versus the 
existing system, the Fiat system

931
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,680
versus the Bitcoin system. 
Well, I do, as you know, this do

932
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,480
a ton of podcasts and let's just
use you and I as an example. 

933
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,840
And this is how I think about it
just about everybody in the 

934
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,080
world. 
And with you meet people, they 

935
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,640
impact you positively or 
negatively or whatever. 

936
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,440
And and you come away changed. 
Yeah. 

937
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,080
Our conversation when the light 
bulb went on. 

938
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,240
Yeah, right. 
It changed your perspective, of 

939
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,160
course. 
And so before that you were in 

940
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,200
that middle camp about Bitcoin. 
Yeah, right. 

941
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,280
Yeah. 
And then you went you went 

942
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:56,360
deeper. 
Yeah. 

943
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,720
And we, I did a podcast with 
Natalie recently that's I think 

944
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:04,680
now has 185,000 view views. 
And that wasn't supposed to be a

945
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,000
podcast. 
It was, she was writing her 

946
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,600
book. 
We, we were really good friends.

947
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:13,440
I, I, she's read my book three 
times and she was writing her 

948
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,320
book and she couldn't explain to
her editor what I meant. 

949
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:21,120
So she'd so she said, could we 
just do a non podcast? 

950
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:22,640
Can you just help me through 
this? 

951
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,560
And it was through that, that 
then she released it as a 

952
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,040
podcast because it clicked for 
her, clicked how different it 

953
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,960
was how, but it took a long time
together, same with Peter 

954
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,320
McCormack. 
Like I think, I think I was on 

955
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,240
this podcast 3 or 4 times and 
the light finally went on to 

956
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:42,640
what I was saying. 
So for me, I feel like I've been

957
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,000
saying this over and over and 
over and over again, but that's 

958
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,760
why I say it's the cognitive 
dissonance from moving from one 

959
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,560
system to another. 
And I went through it too. 

960
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,960
It's very difficult because 
you're you're in the matrix, 

961
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,880
right? 
To use that examle, you're in 

962
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,080
the Matrix and you're trying to 
imagine a world outside of the 

963
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,160
Matrix. 
It's unimaginable. 

964
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,600
Yeah, it is imaginable. 
Like for me, it's for me at 

965
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,240
least. 
I think maybe I'm totally wrong,

966
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,280
but I think it, it's perfectly 
clear. 

967
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:14,080
It's perfectly clear. 
Maybe I'm a terrible. 

968
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:18,440
Maybe the problem is I can't 
explain it very well, but it's. 

969
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,640
But I see a world with 8 billion
people in service of 8 billion 

970
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,040
people. 
I see a world that looks totally

971
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,360
unlike. 
That what is that world 10 years

972
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,200
from now describe? 
It so in 10 years it's still 

973
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,880
probably it still probably isn't
all the way there. 

974
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,960
So what would get it all the way
there our choices. 

975
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:39,400
OK, Will most people make the 
choice that I'm making or you 

976
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,560
met you've already made within 
10 years? 

977
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,120
Unlikely. 
Which is reclaim their 

978
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,240
sovereignty, but. 
Holes what spend spend your time

979
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:48,600
in a free market that you 
complete. 

980
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,920
What What about the Bitcoin 
scaling? 

981
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,960
Vast majority of people won't be
able to transact on the main 

982
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,520
chain. 
So one of the words I use is 

983
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,520
open decentralized secure 
protocol bounded by money or by 

984
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,000
by energy. 
So if you use the word protocol,

985
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:07,360
technologies are winner take, 
most protocols are winner take 

986
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,120
all it really important open 
protocols win. 

987
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,240
And we we see we saw that the 
last protocol anybody knows 

988
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,800
about probably before 
electricity would be to the 

989
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,640
Internet and it comes in layers,
right. 

990
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,480
And you and and so the Internet 
all around the globe, you have a

991
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,720
choice to be on it or off of a 
North Korea is off of it, right?

992
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:32,080
Their citizens can't you can't 
can't get on it. 

993
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:33,760
Look at what happens to the 
country. 

994
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,080
Even if you're in China behind 
the great Firewall and you run 

995
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,120
AVPN, you can have all of the 
Internet. 

996
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:44,040
Nobody can stop it. 
So but how did it emerge? 

997
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,800
It came in layers. 
Yeah, First layer was by Darfa 

998
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,920
in the late 60s and it took Tim 
Berners Lee in 1989. 

999
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:57,160
It took 20 years of layers to be
able to to build the Internet. 

1000
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,240
And then all of the innovation 
that happened on top of that 

1001
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,640
took another, call it 20 years. 
Just about everything we do is 

1002
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,360
on top of that protocol, 
protocol today. 

1003
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,320
And most people, when they're 
talking about Bitcoin today, 

1004
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:15,960
they're talking about Bitcoin 
like it emerged in 1989, OK? 

1005
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,160
And they're comparing it to the 
Internet. 

1006
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:20,000
You think that's where we are in
bitcoins? 

1007
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,120
No, no, no. 
When I'm talking about Bitcoin, 

1008
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:28,000
I'm talking about where we were 
in 1969 right now. 

1009
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,800
No, no, no, no. 
But that the Bitcoin that you 

1010
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,800
know that most people are 
talking about as a store of 

1011
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,320
value is the first layer of the 
protocol TCP IP. 

1012
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:43,800
The next layer comes in and it's
a transport layer like lightning

1013
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,800
liquid, no. 
And that that would be another 

1014
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,560
layer or kind of layer 2 and 2 
1/2. 

1015
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,520
And each of these layers has 
trade-offs, but provides more 

1016
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,440
functionality without having 
another coin, without having a 

1017
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,600
bridge to another coin, without 
having a tether, without having 

1018
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,400
a. 
I understand some of the things 

1019
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,960
that people wanted through the 
box sized wars. 

1020
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,800
I understand some of the people 
things people wanted through 

1021
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:14,960
privacy coins and other because 
what they, what they were saying

1022
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,840
is if this doesn't have privacy,
it will be killed. 

1023
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,840
And if you just, if you just 
said that they're right, right? 

1024
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,560
Because if you said later on the
centralization and if you do, if

1025
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,920
you didn't have privacy, one of 
the reasons why the nodes in 

1026
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,920
Bitcoin is so, so it makes it so
secure is you can't find all 

1027
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,960
these nodes all over the place. 
Yeah, right. 

1028
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,680
They're all hidden behind toward
browsers and they're all over 

1029
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,480
globally distributed. 
So if you use that same example 

1030
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,760
and you said you had as open if 
Bitcoin was an open monetary 

1031
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,720
network and you could see 
everybody's transactions, right,

1032
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:53,920
which it is if the government, 
if everything's centralized in 

1033
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,400
the government and everybody 
could see that, then eventually 

1034
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,200
you would expect those people to
be at risk. 

1035
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,120
So I completely understand the 
privacy aspect of why people 

1036
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:08,160
wanted that privacy coin, but 
those people made a it had to be

1037
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,840
bounded by energy, decentralized
them to secure. 

1038
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,200
First you had to add privacy in 
layers, right? 

1039
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,560
You had to add. 
So that's what fettiments does. 

1040
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:21,880
That's what the cashew does. 
You had privacy and fettiment. 

1041
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,680
Now you essentially replicate 
that known nature of that coin 

1042
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,920
at the and you have maybe 
thousands, millions of 

1043
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:34,880
federations and end time, all 
self sovereign that provide 

1044
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,560
privacy, abstraction, 
communication, privacy and and 

1045
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,280
such. 
And this is very early still, 

1046
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,360
but it gives a scaling layer 
that cannot be found and it 

1047
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,680
gives a resiliency to to to 
Bitcoin that that can scale all 

1048
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,080
around the globe without that 
that attack vector. 

1049
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:56,080
These things needed to be in 
place before the system 

1050
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:57,520
centralized. 
Yes, right. 

1051
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,520
And that's what I'm talking 
about in the free market, 

1052
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,280
whether it's Fetty, whether it's
whether it's Cashew, whether 

1053
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,360
it's, whether it's Noster, 
whether it's, it's a combination

1054
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,880
of all of these things 
predicting where the value would

1055
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:13,640
need to be building in layers on
top of everyone that that build 

1056
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,360
this parallel system. 
Literally every you have 

1057
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,560
parallel Internet being built 
that everything is going to move

1058
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:24,880
to yeah, in time. 
And so so you have to 

1059
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,680
peer-to-peer, which is 
peer-to-peer, which is which the

1060
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,720
the Internet we know of got got 
captured and consolidated and 

1061
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,320
you're being farmed in it. 
Yeah, because of that 

1062
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:39,320
centralized, that centralized 
knowledge, everything in that is

1063
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:44,160
essentially farming you. 
It's essentially like if I send 

1064
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,080
you even signal right? 
I send you a signal message. 

1065
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,360
It's me Signal server, you 
right. 

1066
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:52,240
Where is that signal server 
you're trusting? 

1067
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,000
That signal server is, you know,
doing the right thing. 

1068
00:57:55,320 --> 00:58:02,400
And then I have a buddy founder 
of Start 9 Matt Hill and like 

1069
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,840
you can essentially run your own
server at home. 

1070
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,280
And instead of me sending a 
message to a server, then 

1071
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,440
sending it to you, it'd be my 
server is sending a message to 

1072
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:15,600
your servers direct through Tor 
and it's peer. 

1073
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,840
To peer, and that's a that's a 
great service is there's a 

1074
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,560
really good example of, of a 
service that builds up or 

1075
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,800
certain iron that builds up to 
solve this problem and extends 

1076
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,040
the protocol in a whole bunch of
different ways that allow you to

1077
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,360
escape that matrix. 
And more and more people do it 

1078
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,840
because they, they realize that 
the cost, the true cost of that 

1079
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,000
centralization and and so who 
owns the server firms? 

1080
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,880
Who owns the like, like you 
can't even find the numbers, but

1081
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,880
the NSA probably runs the most 
compute. 

1082
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,400
Where did that money come from 
from They're running that most 

1083
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,760
compute, right? 
It's coming from the same from 

1084
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,800
the centralizing system. 
And all of your stuff is going 

1085
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,560
through that. 
China would have a similar 

1086
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,520
thing. 
So all of the people inside this

1087
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,400
system that think that they're 
making these free choices. 

1088
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,840
That system is is changing your 
mind, right? 

1089
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,680
When you go to Google, when you 
go to Facebook and what you see,

1090
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,240
it's actually feeding the thing 
that. 

1091
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,240
Hey, is this why you've chosen 
to opt out of X and go to? 

1092
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:24,480
Poster completely yeah, is Yeah,
you know this. 

1093
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,880
I didn't. 
I'm not trying to be popular. 

1094
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,320
My time matters, right. 
Yeah. 

1095
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:36,120
I had left behind 375,000 
followers on on X because there 

1096
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,080
was no fix from that system. 
And I found it hypocritical when

1097
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,920
Elon was talking about free 
speech and what that would look 

1098
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,520
like when you know it's can't be
you can't you when you when you 

1099
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,320
know the centralized system 
can't be. 

1100
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,480
He makes different decisions in 
US than he does in China. 

1101
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,400
Yeah, right. 
Why? 

1102
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,280
Because he wants to sell cars 
there. 

1103
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:58,800
Why? 
He wants to sell satellite. 

1104
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,040
And all of these things are in 
the inside that system. 

1105
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:04,320
Nostra is exactly the same as 
Bitcoin, right? 

1106
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:08,760
It like we're very similar when 
the similar conversations. 

1107
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,840
Well, Nostra won't won't work. 
It doesn't have as much value as

1108
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:13,240
this. 
What do you think people said 

1109
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:14,560
about Bitcoin earlier? 
Same thing. 

1110
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:15,600
Same thing. 
Yeah, right. 

1111
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,680
It's just earlier. 
Yeah, right. 

1112
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,720
And I and I realized I could 
move my time to the thing that 

1113
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,920
was earlier and make a 
difference in that thing. 

1114
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,080
Yeah. 
Absolutely. 

1115
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,440
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1120
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1130
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Now, one of the things that 
you've told me in the past that 

1131
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,600
absolutely fascinating me is 
that you've said AI is dangerous

1132
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:36,480
under a Fiat standard. 
AI is safe under a Bitcoin 

1133
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:37,880
standard. 
What do you mean by that? 

1134
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,720
Well, I just did this podcast 
with George Gammon. 

1135
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:45,200
That was, it's funny, George, 
it's same thing that you, just 

1136
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,600
like I wrote in my book that 
because of the exponential 

1137
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,960
change in AI, I wrote a 
paragraph that said we measured 

1138
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,440
AI today in decades. 
Very shortly we'll be measuring 

1139
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,160
in years, then quarters, then 
months, then minutes, then 

1140
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,120
seconds. 
And so what's happening right 

1141
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,920
now is that's happening. 
What is that? 

1142
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:09,520
It's productivity gains at a 
massive scale, a staggering 

1143
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:11,920
scale. 
So if you don't use AI in your 

1144
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,520
business, I'm sure you're 
probably starting to use it in 

1145
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:15,920
your podcasting. 
You have to, right? 

1146
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,040
Or you don't have to. 
But if you don't, your cost is 

1147
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,480
way higher and you can't 
compete, right? 

1148
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,760
And if you, if you do it, your 
cost is way lower. 

1149
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,760
And so you, you are going to 
remove labor and use AI 

1150
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:31,440
otherwise you won't be a 
business. 

1151
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:32,920
Yeah, other people will beat 
you. 

1152
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:34,880
Yeah. 
And why wouldn't you be your 

1153
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,120
business? 
Because people will will follow 

1154
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,720
the business that's cheaper, 
better, faster, right. 

1155
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:43,320
The follower follow that instead
of going for the higher, slower,

1156
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:44,840
more expensive business. 
Yeah. 

1157
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,960
So every bit every business, 
because we're on the other side 

1158
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,560
of it searching for more value, 
has to use AI. 

1159
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,800
Every person has to use AI. 
And so that's staggering 

1160
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,840
productivity gains. 
And those people that are 

1161
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,920
working today, what do they do? 
They have to manually do it. 

1162
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:06,120
I'm I'm saying what do the 
people that are going to be 

1163
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:10,920
replaced by the AI do? 
There were this many jobs and 

1164
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:15,960
now there's this many less jobs.
Where do those people go they 

1165
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:17,960
don't like? 
Where is there to go? 

1166
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,240
So perfect. 
Now let's, let's so we know for 

1167
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,880
sure AI is going to happen 
faster and faster. 

1168
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,840
We know for sure we're going to 
use it, right. 

1169
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,040
We know for sure we're going to 
choose more value. 

1170
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:32,880
Yeah. 
From the companies that use it. 

1171
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,880
Yeah. 
In other words, you have one day

1172
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,760
you could have one company 
producing you or one company 

1173
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,160
with one person giving you so 
much value because of the tools 

1174
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,520
that company replaces thousands 
of people that you gave you the 

1175
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,680
same value before or store or 
what you did before. 

1176
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,160
So you'll use that. 
Where do those people go? 

1177
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,600
Where do they go? 
OK, that's in the world I 

1178
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:02,320
describe on Bitcoin, prices fall
by exactly the rate that those 

1179
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,640
people go. 
Wait, wait, wait. 

1180
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:06,160
What? 
Why? 

1181
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,560
Because it's productivity that 
the productivity that we choose,

1182
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,720
the prices fall by that they 
don't need the job anymore 

1183
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,320
because prices keep falling and 
falling and falling. 

1184
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:17,240
Oh my. 
God. 

1185
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:21,320
OK, see, it's another Jeff Booth
mind breaking moment. 

1186
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:27,000
And it is, but it's funny that 
and there maybe maybe I'm just 

1187
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:32,320
bad at communicating it because 
it's it's that's what they. 

1188
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:33,920
What did I say last time the 
penny dropped? 

1189
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,600
The penny dropped twice. 
They keep falling, they keep 

1190
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:38,120
falling, they keep falling 
forever. 

1191
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:42,200
And so the the job that you 
think you need to pay for the 

1192
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:45,880
artificial prices that are 
going, going up is only needed 

1193
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:47,640
because of the artificial prices
going. 

1194
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,320
Yeah, it's not needed. 
You live in abundance. 

1195
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:55,000
You continually live in if 
prices kept falling, if if 

1196
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,920
prices fell by 5% a year, then 
10% a year as the natural course

1197
01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:03,360
and then 15%. 
If people, if people lived in 

1198
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,600
abundance, what, what incentive 
would you have to to build 

1199
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,120
things, for example? 
So there's always going to be 

1200
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:15,120
things to solve, OK, Always. 
In the free market, you get paid

1201
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,800
more than than somebody else for
creating value. 

1202
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,760
How do you get paid? 
You get paid by creating value 

1203
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:22,200
for somebody else. 
Yeah. 

1204
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,040
The more people you create value
for, the more you get paid. 

1205
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,440
Then what happens? 
Somebody sees the value you're 

1206
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:32,960
making making, and they compete 
with you and they remove your 

1207
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:34,760
value. 
And you have to commute harder 

1208
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,160
and harder to provide more 
value. 

1209
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,440
And the output of that is all 
prices continue to fall. 

1210
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,840
You win, they win, everyone 
wins. 

1211
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,680
Because even if you weren't part
of that equation, those people 

1212
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:49,440
competing create value for you. 
When prices are allowed to be in

1213
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:54,080
the free market, the only way 
you lose from that equation is 

1214
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:55,840
if you live in a centralized 
market. 

1215
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,880
The prices are artificially made
to rise. 

1216
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:04,560
I see what you're saying. 
So then you'd lose your job. 

1217
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,320
All prices are higher. 
And you wouldn't be. 

1218
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,400
You don't know what to do. 
And you wouldn't be returned to 

1219
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,280
the government who's creating 
the problem. 

1220
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,960
And you say save me, Save me. 
And they create a new program to

1221
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,160
save you that. 
Where does money come from? 

1222
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:18,120
From you. 
Yeah. 

1223
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,400
In this world, you just get 
better and better. 

1224
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:25,280
But it is a perfect expression 
of humankind trading with each 

1225
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:29,000
other in service of humankind, 
that is. 

1226
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,440
And Bitcoin is imposing that 
discipline. 

1227
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:35,520
If you own part of Bitcoin, you 
are already part of that system.

1228
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:43,640
That is mind blowing. 
So what about highly centralized

1229
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:49,440
countries that essentially 
depend on this top down control 

1230
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,440
of their population? 
They'll get eradicated. 

1231
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,640
So so so. 
Bitcoin is terrible for 

1232
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,120
dictators. 
OK, why? 

1233
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,600
So you see the CCP. 
Essentially. 

1234
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,680
So why? 
Why is the CCP so against 

1235
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,080
Bitcoin? 
Because it's terrible for 

1236
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,120
dictators, of course. 
It's terrible for a centralized 

1237
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,040
planning system. 
That's why they want to CBDC. 

1238
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,320
Yeah, so so. 
But but again, why? 

1239
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,440
Why many other nations are 
wanting CBDCS is the same. 

1240
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,440
The same reason a really good 
friend of mine, Alvaro, runs the

1241
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:24,120
Democracy Lab in Costa Rica and 
he has some stops that I think 

1242
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:31,880
it was 10 years ago, 47% of 
humanity lived in somewhat 

1243
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:36,880
democracies, right? 
So 5053% lived in dictatorships.

1244
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:43,600
Now only 10 years later, I think
it's like 80 to 2% live in 

1245
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,520
somewhat dictatorships. 
The trend is getting worse and 

1246
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,680
worse and worse. 
Why would it get worse and worse

1247
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:50,520
and worse? 
Because the dictator rises 

1248
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:52,240
because of the manipulation of 
money. 

1249
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:56,120
Typically what happens is you go
socialism first. 

1250
01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:00,360
Yeah, and because socialism 
can't fix that problem, right? 

1251
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:05,400
Eventually some someone moves to
faster fascism to take back 

1252
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:09,480
control and they consolidate 
more power Dictator and and it 

1253
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,720
consolidate more control. 
You can't fix that problem 

1254
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:14,960
because it's all broke. 
Based on money coming forward 

1255
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,720
officially from somebody else, 
that should go to them to you. 

1256
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:19,240
This is why the problem looks 
like. 

1257
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:22,120
But can't they fund the men with
guns? 

1258
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:26,640
And can't the free market system
not fent fund the men with guns 

1259
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,359
as efficiently as the 
centralized system? 

1260
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:35,080
Nodes all coming back to nodes, 
same as nodes on fettiment. 

1261
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:40,840
If there was one node in 
Bitcoin, if the if Bitcoin was 

1262
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:43,840
completely open, everybody could
see it. 

1263
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:49,840
Eventually the men with guns 
let's first one node, men with 

1264
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,800
guns would go kill that person. 
It would be over. 

1265
01:08:53,359 --> 01:08:56,720
The honest system has never 
prevailed because the honest 

1266
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:00,279
system was always outed where if
you were honest against this 

1267
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:05,200
overwhelming force against you, 
this system because it's 

1268
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:08,680
decentralized and secure and 
that decentralization is hidden 

1269
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,720
around the world, you can't stop
it. 

1270
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,960
Stop one person keeps going. 
Stop Two People keeps going. 

1271
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:18,760
It's just to make an analogy 
that it's, I'm connecting dots, 

1272
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:22,279
Jeff. 
This is why all the guerrilla 

1273
01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:25,240
warfare was as successful as it 
was. 

1274
01:09:25,279 --> 01:09:28,840
Like you look at Vietnam, If you
look at Afghanistan, Afghanistan

1275
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,319
was invaded by the British, the 
Soviets and the Americans. 

1276
01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:37,880
Super centralized force the 
latest technology and they got 

1277
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,680
beat by a bunch of independent 
nodes with AK-40. 

1278
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:44,520
Sevens. 
And now this, this is the this 

1279
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,359
is the opposite. 
This is that a fair analogy? 

1280
01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:48,920
Yeah, but that that's a war 
analogy to do it. 

1281
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,920
This is a peaceful analogy to do
it because you all you have to 

1282
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:55,360
do is move to a node. 
You can hide your node node 

1283
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:58,440
behind the Tor browser or you 
can you can be part of this 

1284
01:09:58,440 --> 01:09:59,800
network. 
And the more people that are 

1285
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:03,320
part of this network running, 
running nodes, the more safe and

1286
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:07,360
secure you are in a group that 
it cannot be found, a globally 

1287
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:09,560
distributed group. 
That's, that's, that's what's 

1288
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:11,600
protecting it. 
That's actually why I think 

1289
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:15,000
Fetty, Fetty and Fettiment is 
such a big deal because it 

1290
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:19,680
expands that ability for you to 
do that in a complete private 

1291
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,680
way and gives you all of your 
friends and people that you 

1292
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:26,440
communications private knows 
about. 

1293
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:31,160
And it expands essentially that 
node model, yeah, in a guardian 

1294
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:35,080
type of model into a way that 
extends, extends the network. 

1295
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,640
But yes, that's ultimately they 
it can't be stopped. 

1296
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,400
It's so fast. 
Again, you have to essentially 

1297
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,480
you have to zoom out. 
You have to think outside of the

1298
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:52,160
matrix to understand this new 
system and and it's. 

1299
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,280
It's difficult to because it's 
not intuitive, but once you 

1300
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:57,560
point it out, you can't Unsee 
it. 

1301
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,480
Yeah, So what almost what you 
have to do and what I did what 

1302
01:11:00,480 --> 01:11:03,840
you're doing, it wouldn't what 
your exact once you see it, you 

1303
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,280
can and then you choose to move 
your time towards it and be part

1304
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,280
of it. 
But the first step is, is this 

1305
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:12,520
true? 
Like, could this actually 

1306
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:15,720
resolve this paradox that we've 
always lived on, we've always 

1307
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,640
lived in a control system? 
Could we actually live in as 

1308
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,200
something else? 
And, and when you, when you 

1309
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:25,120
understand Satoshi's brilliance 
and creating, creating this and 

1310
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,840
what this looks like, and the 
cypherpunks that risk their 

1311
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:33,920
lives to be able to, to free 
money from state and, and, but 

1312
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:37,400
now that network, how big it is 
already and how many people are 

1313
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,240
there and it's expanding faster 
and faster. 

1314
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:43,720
Kind of have to ask yourself why
would I want to live in this 

1315
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,400
other system when I can live in 
this system? 

1316
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:49,480
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
What do you think about 

1317
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:51,720
MicroStrategy and what they're 
doing? 

1318
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:58,440
I think Michael is, is inventing
A playbook for this. 

1319
01:11:58,440 --> 01:12:02,760
And I think he's he's a genius 
in this and he's creating an 

1320
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:08,360
incredible, incredible vehicle 
to take him to take advantage of

1321
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,160
kind of the Fiat world moving 
into the Bitcoin world. 

1322
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,400
There is the centralization risk
on some of that. 

1323
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,080
But he has no more vote in the 
network than I have and the 

1324
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:22,360
network I'm a node. 
He's a node right now. 

1325
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,200
I think he's a is very good for 
Bitcoin. 

1326
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:29,040
I think he's, I think he's 
great. 

1327
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,760
We'll see in time and again, 
when I say cheat and everything 

1328
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,360
else, I'm talking from a game 
theoretical perspective. 

1329
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:39,800
Eventually in time, every single
person is going to be forced to 

1330
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,880
choose the global free market or
the centralized coin. 

1331
01:12:44,440 --> 01:12:47,400
It's going to and, and so we'll 
see in time what what people 

1332
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:51,160
choose when they choose it. 
But but now I think he's been 

1333
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:55,400
fantastic for Bitcoin. 
I think he's, I think micro, I 

1334
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:59,120
own micro strategy and my RSPI 
think it's a fantastic 

1335
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:02,440
investment. 
I think we think he's great. 

1336
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,880
So it's, it's essentially it's, 
it's a net positive, but over 

1337
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,320
time essentially will kind of 
reveal. 

1338
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,720
For me, I've never looked up to 
people with money. 

1339
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:14,960
I've never looked up to people 
with power. 

1340
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,920
I've never looked down to people
without money or down to people.

1341
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:22,560
I I see everybody is equal. 
I just see everybody is a genius

1342
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:27,480
in their own capacity and, and 
having and then I watch for who 

1343
01:13:27,480 --> 01:13:30,800
do I want to be around? 
And I can be friends with two 

1344
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:34,520
people with vastly different, I 
can disagree with both of them 

1345
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:38,200
in some different ways, but also
really like both of them. 

1346
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:41,840
So I tried to take the 
personalities out of this and go

1347
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:47,440
back to, to 1st principles and, 
and from a first principle, the 

1348
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:49,240
natural stay of the free market 
is deflation. 

1349
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:53,160
And So what does that mean it 
when most people in the world 

1350
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:54,760
don't know that? 
Yeah. 

1351
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:58,360
What it means is people are 
going to choose for the control 

1352
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:01,680
system or the free market and in
time, and they're going to be 

1353
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:04,480
forced to choose. 
And we'll just watch to what 

1354
01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:08,080
they chose. 
So when it's first principle, 

1355
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:12,040
first principle is Jeff. 
So you, you apply that to 

1356
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:16,080
relationships, like when when 
you're talking to someone or 

1357
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:19,240
let's say you, you know, I'm 
sure a lot of people want to 

1358
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:21,720
meet you, Jeff, right? 
Is that something that you take 

1359
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:22,960
into account? 
Everything. 

1360
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:24,320
What's the equation in your 
head? 

1361
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,720
Is it just, is this person going
to be more centralized? 

1362
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:29,720
No, no, no, not in that, not in 
that. 

1363
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:31,720
In the relationship. 
All I care about in a 

1364
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:36,320
relationship, I tend to look 
through kind of the noise and so

1365
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,960
at somebody and I tried to see 
the the best in them. 

1366
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,840
OK, that's the the I might not, 
I don't have to agree with 

1367
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,840
everything they are, but in a 
relationship that's I care about

1368
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:52,320
the best in that person person. 
And, and typically not typically

1369
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:55,480
always, I'm not talking about 
that person behind their back 

1370
01:14:55,480 --> 01:14:57,200
ever. 
Of course, if I have something 

1371
01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:58,960
to say, I say it to them 
directly. 

1372
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:02,640
And and so in in all my 
relationships, I would say I'm 

1373
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:06,480
very present in a relationship. 
So you and you and I, right? 

1374
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,200
Even if we don't see each other 
for a long time, there's a 

1375
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,720
closeness, there's a we. 
Continue where we left. 

1376
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:16,240
Off and it's very real. 
It is very and it doesn't even 

1377
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,400
have to be real for you. 
It's real for me. 

1378
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:22,640
That's how I feel about you. 
That's how I feel about anybody 

1379
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,960
I would spend any time in in my 
life. 

1380
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:31,880
And I so a friend of mine said 
to my to his son, who then said 

1381
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:33,400
to me, he didn't ever said it to
me. 

1382
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:36,880
This friendly going back to do 
when I was 10 years old, one of 

1383
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,840
my really good buddies, he goes,
he said to his son, he said, so 

1384
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:45,200
his son said, my dad told me to 
learn from you that you take the

1385
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:50,000
best from everybody and allow 
them to be who they are and then

1386
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,120
talk about the best and and 
those people. 

1387
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:55,360
And so that meant a lot because 
I didn't, I didn't even know his

1388
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:59,840
dad saw that right. 
So, but that's how that's how I 

1389
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:02,360
would say virtually all of my 
relationships look like. 

1390
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:05,720
Has that ever worked against you
seeing the the the best? 

1391
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:10,360
In people for for sure there's 
there's some people who have 

1392
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:16,160
tried to take advantage of you. 
If I thought about a line here 

1393
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:21,000
and I said on this side, I'm 
wide open, I'm living in, in 

1394
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:22,880
kind of the way I want all the 
time. 

1395
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,560
And the risk is sometimes people
take advantage of that. 

1396
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:30,840
Then then that would be and, and
but the benefit is I see way 

1397
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,480
more great people and I learn 
way more. 

1398
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:37,360
I see hope I see. 
So it's a, it's a strategy 

1399
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:41,600
that's different from a strategy
of seeing the worst in people, 

1400
01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:45,960
closing myself up and seeing 
less people, right? 

1401
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:49,840
And I just think that strategy 
has way better odds of success. 

1402
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,800
Can you have friends within the 
same industry? 

1403
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:56,520
What do you mean? 
Can you have friends within the 

1404
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,160
industry? 
In Bitcoin, Yeah, why not? 

1405
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:04,560
This is very competitive. 
But, but, but it's in, it's 

1406
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,160
competitive. 
Every single person in in, in 

1407
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:11,720
this industry, every single 
person benefits me because we're

1408
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:14,880
living in the first global free 
market, whether they I, I 

1409
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:17,640
disagree with them or not, 
whether they win and my company 

1410
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:21,880
loses or what we all win. 
We're living in a in a world it 

1411
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:25,360
because it's a competitive 
global free market where every 

1412
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:29,320
single bitcoiner yeah, benefits 
me because they're working 

1413
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,720
towards and I benefit them the 
adoption of Bitcoin and I 

1414
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:33,680
benefit them. 
Maverick. 

1415
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:37,040
Kaiser's saying it's Sailor the 
employee, who is the employee, 

1416
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:38,400
the Bitcoin employee of the 
month. 

1417
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:45,080
There's So what I would say is 
it's actually probably way below

1418
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,640
the people we talk about, 
including me every day. 

1419
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,840
It's people that are, are unsung
heroes. 

1420
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,160
The, the fight that's going on 
right now between core and 

1421
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:56,400
knots. 
The the, some of the core 

1422
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:59,320
developers, some of the knots 
develop all of this thing. 

1423
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:03,240
The unsung heroes are all of us 
doing that thing. 

1424
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:05,920
Making Bitcoin strong. 
And what do you think about the 

1425
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:07,680
what's happening between core 
and knots? 

1426
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:10,520
It's another another little mini
civil war. 

1427
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:12,280
It's not. 
As bad as the block size yeah, I

1428
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:15,640
don't think this is a civil war.
I think this is AI think this is

1429
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:18,720
AI can see both I can see both 
arguments. 

1430
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,800
Bitcoin mechanic is a good 
friend I and I think when it 

1431
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:26,600
becomes this is just the way it 
is on on core. 

1432
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:29,760
I don't like that, but I can 
also understand from the from 

1433
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:33,800
the core core developers that 
and this can be a hostile 

1434
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:38,560
situation to be a core developer
and constantly in this battle 

1435
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,640
all the time because people care
so much. 

1436
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:45,560
Yeah, I'm probably not going to 
take a side and in it because I 

1437
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:48,800
can see, I can see both. 
I can see both sides. 

1438
01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:54,480
OK, you know, when I started 
simply many years ago, maybe I 

1439
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:59,560
was young and naive. 
I would start the show with, you

1440
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:02,760
know, will be your you will be 
your guide through the 

1441
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:07,160
separation of money and state 
and talking to you. 

1442
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:13,160
It kind of revitalizes that that
outlook that I have, right, 

1443
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:16,880
which is, you know, I think you 
you identify that, you know, the

1444
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:18,240
state, whether they do it on 
perfect. 

1445
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:19,680
It's all about incentives, 
right? 

1446
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,320
You know, really does cause a 
tremendous amount of harm, 

1447
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:27,760
whether intentional or 
unintentional, manipulating 

1448
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:33,560
money. 
So when I talk to you, you're 

1449
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:39,200
essentially you are describing a
world where money and state will

1450
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:41,920
be separated. 
It will be separate. 

1451
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:45,000
No matter what, it's going to be
separated. 

1452
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:47,440
It's just a matter of how long 
it will take. 

1453
01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:49,240
It's just timing. 
This isn't. 

1454
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:52,840
Again, this is imposing as long 
as it stays decentralized and 

1455
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,200
secure. 
Every time I say as long as it 

1456
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,200
says these centralized and 
secure, What I'm really hoping 

1457
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:02,000
people here by that is I have a 
choice. 

1458
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:06,400
I can be part of the network. 
I can run a node today, I can 

1459
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:09,960
spend more Bitcoin, I can spend 
money in Bitcoin and I have a 

1460
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,440
choice to keeping it 
decentralized and secure and 

1461
01:20:12,440 --> 01:20:14,160
nobody can take that choice from
me. 

1462
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:17,840
When I say as long as it says 
decentralized and secure, what 

1463
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,080
I'm really saying is claim your 
choice. 

1464
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:25,920
OK, That, that, that, that, 
that, that claim that for you 

1465
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:28,440
and you will protect that 
network and you'll see, you'll 

1466
01:20:28,440 --> 01:20:32,920
see more opportunity in it. 
If you think it's hard right now

1467
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:35,160
to do it, learn how to do it. 
It's not very hard. 

1468
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,520
It's not very hard. 
No it's not and it's become way 

1469
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:41,120
easier. 10 years ago it was like
practically impossible. 

1470
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:44,440
Now you can build buy a pre 
built open source node. 

1471
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:47,040
Multiple hardware wallet 
manufacturers, right? 

1472
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:49,560
A big fan of cold collar, of 
course. 

1473
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,040
What are your thoughts on the 
strategic Bitcoin Reserve 

1474
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:55,600
announcement coming out of the 
US government? 

1475
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:59,040
Of course governments are going 
to want to acquire more, right? 

1476
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:03,400
Ken SIM and a friend of mine and
mayor of Vancouver wants to 

1477
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:05,280
acquire it on Vancouver's 
balance sheet. 

1478
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:07,600
Why? 
Because if he acquires it on the

1479
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:12,440
balance sheet, then the money in
Vancouver can't be debased and 

1480
01:21:12,440 --> 01:21:14,560
the services can go further in 
Vancouver. 

1481
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:17,320
That would be the same in any 
country. 

1482
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:20,040
It would be the same thing that 
would happen in your own 

1483
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:24,800
personal life, would happen at A
at a business would happen at 

1484
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,920
the state would happen at the 
city would happen at a country 

1485
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:29,680
exactly the same, the same 
thing. 

1486
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:34,680
So why wouldn't states, 
countries, cities all all do the

1487
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:36,040
same thing? 
They will for sure. 

1488
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:38,360
They're going to do to do that 
and they're going to be in 

1489
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:41,520
competitive competition with 
other people doing it. 

1490
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:43,920
But what as as people talk about
that? 

1491
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,440
I'm just thinking just go buy 
more yourself. 

1492
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,240
Yeah. 
So you can front run government 

1493
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:52,440
still, right? 
You can front run most of the 

1494
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:56,440
global corporations still. 
That is going to go on forever 

1495
01:21:56,440 --> 01:21:59,960
like you're going to. 
Isn't we're so early in this 

1496
01:21:59,960 --> 01:22:04,440
adoption curve that I would love
to see this, the Bitcoin going 

1497
01:22:04,440 --> 01:22:06,280
into more and more individual 
hands? 

1498
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,920
Yeah, yeah. 
Do you think we've peaked in the

1499
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,960
amount of whole coiners? 
Good question. 

1500
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:19,560
I don't know. 
Probably, probably not because I

1501
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:23,560
think a lot of the coiners, 
people who hold today will sell 

1502
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,720
for Fiat dollars and they'll 
think they will retire and the 

1503
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,920
move on and other people will 
replace them, OK. 

1504
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:36,800
What I've noticed, Jeff, I think
last year, really the last six 

1505
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:41,080
or seven months of last year, I 
went through this kind of 

1506
01:22:42,480 --> 01:22:46,080
experience and simply where I 
had a very, very strong, you 

1507
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:48,760
know, we're going to remain 
neutral politically. 

1508
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:52,240
We are not going to pick sides. 
We're not going to say anything 

1509
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:56,960
because we believe that our 
message, our message has to be 

1510
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:59,560
all inclusive, right? 
That's how you get people on 

1511
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:03,520
your side of the football. 
And I think that really switched

1512
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:08,200
when Operation Show .2 point O 
really started to accelerate and

1513
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:12,520
you had the arrests of, of, of 
the Samurai wallet developers. 

1514
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:16,200
You had Ross Olbrich essentially
2 life sentences. 

1515
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:21,080
And then a very wisely and 
intelligently, you had two 

1516
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:23,360
candidates coming in there and 
basically saying, hey, 

1517
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:27,680
Bitcoiners, if you elect me, I'm
going to free Ross and I'm going

1518
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:29,720
to end Operation Choke .2 Point 
O. 

1519
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:34,080
And I remember when I started 
talking about politics, I got so

1520
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:37,760
much heat from Bitcoiners 
because we, but we do believe in

1521
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:40,560
the theory from the sovereign 
individual, which is Bitcoin is 

1522
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:42,600
going to essentially make 
politics irrelevant over the 

1523
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:45,440
long run. 
But I think in this last 

1524
01:23:45,440 --> 01:23:50,120
election, if we did nothing, 
Ross would still be in prison. 

1525
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:55,520
So my question to you is, is 
Fiat voting still important? 

1526
01:23:56,200 --> 01:24:01,240
I, I think yes, and and I, but I
and I agree with you for the 

1527
01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:03,920
same reasons. 
I just so I've been close to 

1528
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:10,360
Pierre poliov and he understands
us from the sand and in Canada 

1529
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:12,680
and I helped him understand 
this. 

1530
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:14,480
I helped him set create self 
custody. 

1531
01:24:14,480 --> 01:24:17,160
I helped his wife to create self
custody. 

1532
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:23,360
And he so far as 3 or 4 weeks 
ago, maybe a little longer ago 

1533
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:27,840
now called and said, listen, 
Jeff, as we do this, how do we 

1534
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,240
make the transition? 
How do we make this transition 

1535
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:34,280
from this system that looks like
this to to this system? 

1536
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:38,240
And prior to that year, a year 
ago, at one point as he was 

1537
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:41,080
going down the rabbit hole, he 
said he asked same thing you 

1538
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:43,360
asked earlier on. 
How does this protect it? 

1539
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,200
He asks, are you safe? 
He asked, are you safe? 

1540
01:24:46,440 --> 01:24:50,440
Because as he was going down and
he was politician party 

1541
01:24:50,440 --> 01:24:54,720
understands seat get gets a 
whole bunch of the information 

1542
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:58,960
from the and he realizes how 
broken and how Co opt corrupt 

1543
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:02,400
the system is and that's why yes
was safe. 

1544
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:06,600
So I built personal relationship
with him because he's sound 

1545
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:08,480
money. 
Do I think he's perfect or 

1546
01:25:08,480 --> 01:25:10,960
anything else? 
Who knows right. 

1547
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:14,520
But the best in him that what I 
was saying before he understands

1548
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:16,080
sound money and why it's so 
important. 

1549
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:23,120
So I for the first time in, in 
any time, I kind of went out on 

1550
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:26,560
a limb and said this and got the
same thing that you just said. 

1551
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,720
And Kearney was Kearney was 
like, we have a central banker, 

1552
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:34,080
like a major central banker 
that's going to pivot Canada for

1553
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:37,680
further to the left. 
And it's going to provide a lot 

1554
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:43,720
more danger or, or, or the track
that Canada's on is going to get

1555
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:48,160
worse, a lot worse, because it's
fundamentally unsolvable from 

1556
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:51,920
that system. 
And most people I know are on 

1557
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:55,200
that side. 
I it was, it was staggering to 

1558
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:57,360
me because they also know who I 
am. 

1559
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:00,080
Yeah. 
And it was staggering to me to 

1560
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:04,400
watch, watch that. 
And and then still in the 

1561
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:07,960
Matrix. 
So I'm going to move the Overton

1562
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:11,080
window. 
I posted this on my ex account 

1563
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:13,440
and I will give a little bit of 
context. 

1564
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,520
Really, the last century was 
really between, you know, 2 

1565
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:22,800
superpowers, right? 
Which is you had the communist 

1566
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:27,720
system and we know it wasn't 
free market, but the more free 

1567
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:31,200
market system, right? 
And I posted this on my ex 

1568
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:33,840
account which I know you don't 
use but I'm going to post it on 

1569
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:36,800
my nostril. 
Account after this I'll I'll ZAP

1570
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,720
it. 
But I basically said the future 

1571
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:47,240
of capitalism is Bitcoin, the 
future of socialism, our central

1572
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:50,520
bank, digital currencies. 
And then that's kind of led me 

1573
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:53,160
down the rabbit hole. 
I'm going to move the Overton 

1574
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:56,400
window here, Jeff. 
Are current left wing politics 

1575
01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:59,120
compatible with a Bitcoin 
standard? 

1576
01:26:59,440 --> 01:27:02,800
Our current left wing current to
our current right wing aren't. 

1577
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,760
They're both incompatible. 
But I think the right wing is 

1578
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:09,080
more open to Bitcoin and I'll 
give you an example. 

1579
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:12,680
So I actually, I agree with you 
so, so so more. 

1580
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,000
If you were more of a free 
market person, you would 

1581
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:19,280
probably see Bitcoin first. 
But that being said, there's a 

1582
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:23,240
lot of progressives like if you 
said Troy Cross and a whole 

1583
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:26,720
bunch of who are incredible 
people that also understand 

1584
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:28,560
Bitcoins, the only way that they
can solve. 

1585
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:31,320
It's not monolithic. 
I completely agree with you. 

1586
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:35,360
But there was a vote and I asked
Senator Lummus in DCA couple 

1587
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:37,360
months ago and she was like, 
that's a good question. 

1588
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:40,040
So I asked her this. 
I said there was a vote in the 

1589
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:44,400
House last year, and the vote 
was essentially forbading the 

1590
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:46,920
federal government from 
launching a central bank digital

1591
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:50,040
currency. 
It wasn't monolithic, but let's 

1592
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:56,040
just say the vast majority of 
the right voted for the bill and

1593
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:59,880
the vast majority of the left 
voted against the bill. 

1594
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:05,760
And if you take a look at some 
of the Fed's recent actions, you

1595
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:08,000
can make a very strong. 
I mean, it doesn't help that 

1596
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:11,160
Trump's calling Powell a loser 
on on to social. 

1597
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:15,160
But you can make the case that a
lot of the Fed's recent actions 

1598
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:18,600
were political in terms of 
helping trying to help Kamala 

1599
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:20,440
elected. 
And if you look at the 5th 

1600
01:28:20,440 --> 01:28:23,520
tenant of the Communist 
Manifesto and makes the case for

1601
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,240
the necessity of a central. 
Bank. 

1602
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:30,320
There is no capitalism or 
communism with a central bank. 

1603
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:33,400
You just said the 5th tenant of 
the Senate communist. 

1604
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:37,160
It's the same system. 
It's exactly the same system. 

1605
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:41,040
If you manipulate money, if you 
have centralized control of 

1606
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:44,400
money and everything else 
resolves around centralized 

1607
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:47,720
control of money, then 
capitalism, communism is exactly

1608
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:49,280
the same system. 
Has to be. 

1609
01:28:49,480 --> 01:28:51,200
Yeah. 
So that is the problem. 

1610
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:55,120
And so when we say left or right
on that, and I would say most 

1611
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,960
people don't understand that. 
And maybe more, more right 

1612
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,840
people on the right. 
They haven't quite gotten to 

1613
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:03,640
this, but maybe some have gotten
there. 

1614
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:07,800
Ron Paul obviously been talking 
about this for forever, and 

1615
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:11,320
you're starting to see the same 
things he said emerge. 

1616
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:14,280
So there are certainly more 
people on the right that would 

1617
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:17,520
see it. 
Is it a more viable vehicle to 

1618
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:19,080
that? 
They're both the same. 

1619
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:22,000
They both end in the same place.
They both end in the same place.

1620
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,920
So when I talk about Canada and 
when I talk about Bitcoin for 

1621
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:29,600
Canada, that mattered. 
For Bitcoin, it doesn't when 

1622
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:33,080
you're talking about the state 
for the US, it's the same, same 

1623
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:35,360
thing when you're talking about 
this, this battle. 

1624
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:40,560
And again, for, for the, the, 
the left, right battle for the 

1625
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:43,880
US, it matters a lot that you 
vote for Bitcoin. 

1626
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:46,720
If you wanted to stay in the US 
for Bitcoin, it doesn't matter. 

1627
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:48,600
But do you see what I mean? 
That like it. 

1628
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:53,920
It does matter to vote for the 
right if you want Bitcoin to be.

1629
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,760
Well, I, I, I guess I don't want
to impose my beliefs on 

1630
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,280
somebody. 
Else, and this is the conundrum 

1631
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:02,960
that I went through personally 
because I'm like, wait a second,

1632
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:06,560
like, no, no, no, I want to be 
inclusive in my messaging. 

1633
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:08,760
I have a lot of friends that do 
great work. 

1634
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:11,560
You mentioned a couple of them. 
I love the progressive case for 

1635
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:13,560
Bitcoiner guys. 
I have them on my show all the 

1636
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:14,720
time. 
They're incredible. 

1637
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:17,000
I give them credit 'cause 
they're like in a hornet's nest.

1638
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:19,200
They're like, dude, guys, keep 
doing what you're doing. 

1639
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:22,600
But at the same time, I can't 
deny the reality. 

1640
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:26,680
And the reality was if if I 
voted for Kamala, Ross would 

1641
01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:28,840
still be in, Ross would still be
in prison. 

1642
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:30,240
And in Canada, it's the same 
thing. 

1643
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:33,680
The perpetrator of all of the 
damage against the troops, the 

1644
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:37,080
trucking thing, and there's loss
of individual rights and 

1645
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:42,200
freedoms and the the media, that
whole party, everyone, most of 

1646
01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:44,200
the people in that party are 
still elected. 

1647
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:47,120
It's been 10 years. 
Canada's standard of living is 

1648
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:48,760
going down lower and lower and 
lower. 

1649
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:51,040
All these problems are getting 
worse and worse and worse 

1650
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:54,960
because of the same thing. 
And we just selected it again. 

1651
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:57,320
It's crazy. 
Yeah, it's crazy. 

1652
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:01,280
Now the question is on the 
resolve for. 

1653
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:05,880
So I agree, Pierre would have 
ripped out a bunch of that and, 

1654
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:09,360
and created a path to something 
that looked better and, and 

1655
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:12,000
hopefully Bitcoin would have 
been a big part of that, of that

1656
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:15,320
path and it would have 
accelerated Bitcoin in Canada 

1657
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:18,320
and it would have made my life 
easier in Canada. 

1658
01:31:18,480 --> 01:31:21,720
Now I have to make a decision, 
Do I exit? 

1659
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,160
Where do I exit? 
What does that, what does that 

1660
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:25,680
look like? 
And I think that's going to 

1661
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:28,920
happen over and over. 
My if you read my LinkedIn post 

1662
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:33,160
on this, I said exactly, I don't
have to impose my beliefs, but I

1663
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:37,960
can tell you my why, right? 
And and my why, if I was in the 

1664
01:31:38,160 --> 01:31:40,200
US would have been exactly what 
you just said. 

1665
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:43,400
And I think it's very important 
to focus on the first part of 

1666
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:46,800
what you just said about 
imposing your beliefs on someone

1667
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:50,320
else, even it doesn't matter how
right you think you are. 

1668
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:53,320
Let that individual make their 
own decision. 

1669
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:56,600
And I remember I was telling my 
Co host, like Opti, I was like, 

1670
01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:00,520
Opti, you know, we might have to
move to El Salvador, my friend, 

1671
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:03,200
right during the the previous 
election. 

1672
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:06,080
And I was half joking, right? 
You know, the US has a little 

1673
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:08,480
bit more, the states have a 
little bit more sovereignty. 

1674
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:12,080
That's actually what creates the
so the way the Constitution is 

1675
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:16,400
written and that the power to to
slow or stop this from 

1676
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:19,320
happening. 
But what what ends up happening 

1677
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:20,960
is money is superordinate to 
law. 

1678
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:24,600
You could see the Constitution 
being chipped away, of course, 

1679
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:27,960
right, because of because of 
broken money and because of the 

1680
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,520
central bank, because of the 
relationship to money, because 

1681
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:33,600
money is superordinate to law 
and money is superordinate to a 

1682
01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:37,120
piece of paper that protects 
your rights. 

1683
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,680
The way that this was formed in 
the US certainly protected your 

1684
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:45,200
rights better than it did in 
Canada and other other nations. 

1685
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:49,680
In fact, the US is a because of 
that long ago fight for 

1686
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:54,320
independence and because of the,
the the Constitution and because

1687
01:32:55,000 --> 01:33:00,440
all rights are created equal. 
I think the so in in kind of the

1688
01:33:00,440 --> 01:33:04,280
spirit of people in the US that 
they're not willing to let that 

1689
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:08,000
die, which is really good for 
both the US and it's also good 

1690
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:11,280
for Bitcoin. 
And my question to you is, Jeff,

1691
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:14,960
at what point do we do, I don't 
want to say stand and fight from

1692
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:17,120
a kinetic sense, but at what 
point? 

1693
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:21,480
And this is where I like, I felt
I was at a crossroads and you 

1694
01:33:21,480 --> 01:33:24,560
just said yourself, you felt 
like you needed to vote as well.

1695
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:27,880
At what point do Bitcoiners say 
no? 

1696
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:31,640
We need to hold the line here. 
So I, I, I think this comes down

1697
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:35,360
to, I think what Bitcoiners are 
doing are both holding law and 

1698
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:38,840
and again, decentralized secure 
protocol bound by energy. 

1699
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:42,160
People are going to make any 
decision and all decisions kind 

1700
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:44,640
of form where where we're going.
So there's going to be lots of 

1701
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:46,160
heights. 
Some people are going to take 

1702
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,040
that fight. 
Some people are going to just 

1703
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:50,680
rise above it and just keep on 
building faster. 

1704
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:52,760
And they're like a Gandhi, 
right? 

1705
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:55,920
They're still fighting, but 
they're they're they're fighting

1706
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:57,640
on something that can't be 
attacked. 

1707
01:33:57,800 --> 01:33:59,920
Yeah, right. 
And so they're using their 

1708
01:33:59,920 --> 01:34:03,200
energy differently. 
So I think it's going to, I 

1709
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:05,760
think with what's coming, how 
chaotic this is going to be, 

1710
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:07,160
it's going to be all of the 
above. 

1711
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:10,000
That's going to as as as we move
over there. 

1712
01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:15,320
When I think about my energy, is
my energy that better? 

1713
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:18,680
So there Brad Mills said just 
recently. 

1714
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:23,160
So do you want to help create 
some kind of political party? 

1715
01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:27,360
Do you want to help move some of
these laws and for not a chance.

1716
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:32,520
So I can move my energy from 
where it is now, helping 

1717
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:35,880
entrepreneurs build products, 
technology that expand this 

1718
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,560
network and move faster and 
faster and faster and stay 

1719
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:42,120
there. 
Or I could take it and do that, 

1720
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:44,080
right? 
It's a no brainer. 

1721
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:46,720
Where's your best energy? 
Where should you focus it? 

1722
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:50,800
Yeah, yeah. 
What message do you have for 

1723
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:53,800
future generations? 
And the reason I'm asking this 

1724
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:57,360
question is I just had a 
daughter by a year a year ago or

1725
01:34:57,360 --> 01:34:58,640
so. 
She's walking down. 

1726
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:00,880
That's so cool. 
So little humans. 

1727
01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:02,600
I can't. 
Believe that how that works. 

1728
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:09,960
But you know, what I, what I 
find fascinating is that she was

1729
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:14,440
born into a world where Bitcoin 
exists versus you and I, we 

1730
01:35:14,440 --> 01:35:18,840
essentially, you know, we grew 
up in a world where Bitcoin 

1731
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:22,480
didn't exist when we were born, 
didn't exist for a big portion 

1732
01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:25,360
of our lives. 
And then we found it. 

1733
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:26,720
She's going to be Bitcoin 
native. 

1734
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:29,560
Because I'm. 
Going to be telling her list out

1735
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:32,440
of the wallet. 
You know download Sparrow, watch

1736
01:35:32,440 --> 01:35:36,800
some tutorials right? 
What message would you have for 

1737
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:40,400
future generations? 
It's very hopeful, especially if

1738
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:42,760
she has a dad like you, that 
that is. 

1739
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:46,600
But but year early on this, 
you're understanding, if you 

1740
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:49,640
understand all that stuff that's
coming across and you're curious

1741
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:53,040
enough to keep going. 
And, and so if you think of 

1742
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:57,080
people with integrity in your 
life, right, like what, what 

1743
01:35:57,080 --> 01:35:59,840
would you want your kids to see?
Like would you want them to see 

1744
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:02,720
that, that you're aligned in 
that integrity and everything 

1745
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:04,400
else? 
And a lot of times when you get 

1746
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,080
to, I think all of the time, 
when you get to the bottom of 

1747
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:10,560
the Bitcoin rabbit hole and you 
make that commitment, that's who

1748
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:12,040
you are. 
Your daughter's going to see 

1749
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:14,800
that she's going to grow up with
it and she's going to benefit 

1750
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:18,640
from not just that in that 
system, but as that system 

1751
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:22,240
expands, she's going to see all 
of the hope and promise of that 

1752
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:26,080
system, whereas some others 
aren't. 

1753
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:29,080
They're not really going to be. 
In fact, if you just ask what 

1754
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:31,440
you do on your podcast, what why
did I come here? 

1755
01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:34,680
Why did, why is your podcast 
successful? 

1756
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:38,080
It's successful because you're 
touching people, you're making 

1757
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:42,960
an impact on other people's 
lives and and that's expanding 

1758
01:36:43,200 --> 01:36:46,320
and, and you can feel it 
expanding because you're making 

1759
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:48,360
that positive impact. 
That's what the free market 

1760
01:36:48,440 --> 01:36:50,160
looks like, that's what Bitcoin 
looks like. 

1761
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:54,280
And that's what the more and 
more people who step out of that

1762
01:36:54,280 --> 01:36:56,880
world are going to look like. 
So your daughter is going to 

1763
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:59,280
bathe in it every day. 
She's going to be part of a part

1764
01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:01,520
of that. 
And it's so super hopeful that. 

1765
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:04,880
Was very touching and I really 
appreciate it. 

1766
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:08,840
Very powerful, Jeff. 
And you know, I hope everyone 

1767
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:10,560
who's watching understands, 
right? 

1768
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:14,360
If they have kids, you know they
can see that as well if they're 

1769
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:18,560
bitcoiners. 
Kids, my kids now are 2119 and 

1770
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:25,120
17 and close like incredible, 
incredible. 

1771
01:37:25,400 --> 01:37:28,240
They reach incredible family. 
We're so close. 

1772
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:32,440
I'm watching kind of that 
closeness and everything else 

1773
01:37:32,440 --> 01:37:35,320
out of the same thing. 
Kids don't do what you tell them

1774
01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:38,720
to do. 
Kids do what you show them to 

1775
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:41,440
do. 
They learn way more about who 

1776
01:37:41,440 --> 01:37:44,320
you are, how you show up, than 
what you tell them. 

1777
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:48,440
And so if you show up in 
congruence, if you show up 

1778
01:37:48,440 --> 01:37:52,640
authentic, if you show up with 
integrity, that's what your kids

1779
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:55,080
will see. 
My final question to you, Jeff, 

1780
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:59,760
what legacy do you want to leave
through your work? 

1781
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:07,200
This impact just, yeah, impact 
positive impact on other people.

1782
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:11,080
Love it Jeff. 
Poof, thanks an honor. 

1783
01:38:11,360 --> 01:38:12,800
Thank you so much. 
You too.