1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,160 Yo, welcome to another episode of Simply Bitcoin IRL. 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,720 Today we have a very special guest. 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:11,200 We have Mark Goodwin, Editor in Chief at Bitcoin Magazine. 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,440 Absolutely love the guys over Bitcoin Magazine. 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,960 They're crushing it. Those are some of the best 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,040 conferences in the world. I'm really excited for today's 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,440 episode. We have so much to dive into. 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,720 Mark has been has made quite a bit of a splash in a recent 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,600 episode that he did with Whitney Webb. 10 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,720 You know and just people have seemed to have received it 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:33,480 really well. So we're going to explore some 12 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:36,760 of those topics. But, but but before we jump into 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,320 the show, I do want to give a very special shout out to the 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,000 Bitcoin company that powers simply Bitcoin IRL. 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,160 And of course I'm talking about Bitcoin. 16 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:47,680 Well, Bitcoin Well is the best place to build your automatic 17 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,000 self custody Bitcoin stack, future proof your money by using 18 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,480 a Bitcoin on ramp that is self custody. 19 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,000 And by default, what does that mean? 20 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,400 That means that you can't buy Bitcoin on Bitcoin. 21 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,120 Well unless you're going to take self custody, which perfectly 22 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,680 aligns with the simply Bitcoin ethos of the separation of money 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,960 and safe. Because after all, Bitcoin and 24 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:11,320 self custody in cold storage is the revolution. 25 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,120 Head over to bitcoinwall.com/simply and 26 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,360 support Bitcoin self custody by default. 27 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,360 Bitcoin on RAMPS All right everybody, no more delay. 28 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,520 You want to bring up Mark on stage? 29 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:25,960 How you doing, Mark? What's up bro? 30 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:29,320 I don't think we've ever chatted before, so I'm excited for this. 31 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,040 Yeah, man. Nico thanks for having me 32 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:33,880 brother. Yeah, I don't think we have are 33 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,720 certainly not in on the show, but I think, you know I think we 34 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,720 crossed paths and packed Bitcoin a couple years ago as FTX was 35 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,080 imploding. I think we crossed paths there. 36 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,120 But yeah man, super happy to be here. 37 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,640 Love the show, love Opti, love what you guys do and yeah, 38 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,640 stoked to be here. Appreciate it. 39 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,280 Appreciate it. Packed Bitcoin. 40 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,240 Yeah. So that's probably why I don't 41 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,240 remember because I literally just was running around like a 42 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,680 crazy person. The 23 so much things going on 43 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:10,320 running the stream panels. MC just nuts as like just it was 44 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,360 all a big blur. Anyways, bro, you're like super 45 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,080 famous now. You did this epic you know, this 46 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,160 epic interview like I was saying in the intro and you covered all 47 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,120 these, you know, all these crazy topics. 48 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,280 I I think a lot of people when like podcasts really blow up. 49 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,640 I I think it's because I think it resonates with a lot of 50 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:32,880 people. Like it connects with a lot of 51 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,360 people's, you know, it hits people's heartstrings, but it's 52 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,400 obviously you've you've hit on topics that I think maybe 53 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,440 perhaps people weren't aware of. So I'm going to rip their 54 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,200 Band-Aid straight off and just jump straight into it. 55 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,640 What is Tokenization, Inc? And this is something that like 56 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:52,240 Larry Fink has brought up. I've seen him talk about this on 57 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,880 legacy corporate media. What is that? 58 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,040 Yeah, totally. Yeah. 59 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,120 Let's jump right in. I mean basically, you know, I 60 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,920 wrote this piece with my friend Whitney Webb about, yeah, kind 61 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:11,120 of this concerning rhetoric that I was seeing from our boy 62 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,160 Lawrence Fink, the CEO of BlackRock. 63 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,400 You know, as BlackRock is getting ready to embrace Bitcoin 64 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:25,000 in in a really big way with, you know, their I bit or iShares 65 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,680 Bitcoin Trust, their their ETF, their SPOT ETF which now has 66 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,280 like 400,000 Bitcoin or something Insane, right. 67 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,480 But this was, you know, this was this was back around the around 68 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,240 the approval. So like you know the beginning 69 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,640 of January and Larry's getting up there and he's talking about, 70 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,760 you know what he how he basically, you know the 71 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,400 framework that BlackRock is looking at Bitcoin. 72 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,480 And you know something really struck me. 73 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,680 I mean literally it was, you know, I was writing out these 74 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,160 quotes in real time as I was watching him talk. 75 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,480 I think it was on CNBC. I'm not exactly sure what which 76 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,800 one was the first interview, but he did a couple interviews like 77 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,640 you know right around the 11th of January when the when the 78 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,840 ETFs were approved. And in one of them he literally 79 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,400 said, you know if we can ETF a Bitcoin, you know what else can 80 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,079 we ETF. And I definitely saw this as 81 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:19,680 kind of this like, First off, he's like inventing a new verb, 82 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,280 right, Like ETF ING. And and I saw it as kind of this 83 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:27,280 like arrogant, kind of like, hey, you know, look what we're 84 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:31,360 doing with Bitcoin, if we can reduce, you know, all of the, 85 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,440 you know, ridiculousness that, you know, the Bitcoin network 86 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,240 goes through to like, you know, have decentralized consensus and 87 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,920 a distributed network. If we can reduce all of that to, 88 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,280 you know, AQ SIP ticker that's traded on the New York Stock 89 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:51,200 Exchange, you know, what else can we, you know, reduce to an 90 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,920 ETF? And I saw it as kind of this 91 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,240 like, you know, I like to, I like to listen to what the 92 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,280 baddies say and and then also look at their actions. 93 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,720 And often times they're not aligned. 94 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,840 But I think in this case, you know, this one kind of worried 95 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:08,680 me a bit. And I was like, oh, my God, like 96 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,080 bitcoiners are rolling out the red carpet here for Larry. 97 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,840 And they're so excited about this ETF like so many, you know, 98 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:18,280 not everybody but a lot. And here he is basically, you 99 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:21,480 know, mocking us, saying he's, you know, he ETF to Bitcoin, 100 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,720 right. And so I think people kind of 101 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,920 just like forgot who Larry kind of is and what BlackRock is and 102 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,280 you know, maybe what Wall Street, you know, these huge 103 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:34,240 institutions like what their kind of plan is for Bitcoin. 104 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,880 So I started kind of digging into Larry and BlackRock and I 105 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,960 found a lot of stuff that you know, I knew he was a baddie but 106 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:47,400 I didn't really realize how connected he was to the the 107 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,240 public sector and in in such this way. 108 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,520 And so the piece kind of became a look at the private public, 109 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,600 you know, paradigm and this, you know, ability for these these 110 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,880 huge institutional players, you know, that have benefited so 111 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,520 much from the debasement of currency of saving mechanisms 112 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,160 for the, you know, the working class and have, you know, really 113 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:17,560 like taken advantage of arguably these private sector caused and 114 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,760 public sector exacerbated, you know, financial crises. 115 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,120 And BlackRock was a huge part of 2008, huge part of 2020 116 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,360 actually. BlackRock bought the iShares 117 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,160 brand from Barclays in the 2008 crisis. 118 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,200 You know, after Barclays sort of denied A bailout from the UK 119 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,720 government, BlackRock came in, bought iShares. 120 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,920 They didn't have any ETF products before and now it's, 121 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,640 you know, one of the biggest parts of their entire operation. 122 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,160 And ETFs are kind of like the most traded, you know, vehicle 123 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,720 right now. But anyways, yeah, kind of was 124 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,200 just like seeing what Larry was saying about Bitcoin. 125 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,640 And so that ETF of Bitcoin scared the shit out of me. 126 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,240 And then he said a couple other things that were really crazy, 127 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,560 specifically saying I don't believe Bitcoin is ever going to 128 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,920 be a currency. I believe it's an asset class. 129 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,600 And then he said that he, he called it a technology for asset 130 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,640 storage, which I think is really interesting. 131 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,360 Especially when you look at, you know, kind of the, you know, 132 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,120 maybe that you could argue the distraction. 133 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,160 But the debate going on now in Bitcoin culture, which I'm 134 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,240 hoping we kind of move on from, 'cause I'm kind of sick and 135 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,240 tired of it and doing it for so long, but with like the ordinal 136 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,840 stuff and Bitcoin as a database and all this. 137 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,320 But he's he's coming out here saying I don't want it to be a 138 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,120 currency we want to ETF of Bitcoin. 139 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,840 It's an asset class and we we, we look at the Ledger this 140 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,360 universal Ledger as being something that we can uphold 141 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,320 digital IDs with. We can uphold tokenized assets 142 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,600 And basically saying that tokenization is sort of the next 143 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,160 ETF ING. And when you begin to look at 144 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,200 the history of of Larry and BlackRock and all of their ESG 145 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,680 plays and their connections with the natural asset corporations 146 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,200 and and all of this stuff, you start to see this kind of 147 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,240 ghoulish picture of you know, what Larry and BlackRock you 148 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,880 know, are kind of planning to hopefully do with Bitcoin. 149 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,040 And yeah, I wanted to just kind of get the story out there, 150 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:27,200 remind people who Larry is and and and sort of raise a little 151 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,880 bit of hell about, you know, hey, there's like a concerted 152 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,600 effort here to basically label Bitcoin as an asset class, as a 153 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,919 commodity and not as this peer-to-peer, you know, medium 154 00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:42,679 of exchange. And I, you know, I do think 155 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,320 that, you know, thinkers like beauty on and are correct in 156 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,920 labeling Bitcoin as, you know, a database and not as money in the 157 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,960 legal sense. And I agree with that. 158 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,840 It's speech, it's code. But in terms of like the way I I 159 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,320 hope users sort of look at it you know Bitcoin really should 160 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,080 be upheld as this peer-to-peer thing and and the the the 161 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,200 further we get from that the more we go into this unit of 162 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,600 account you know store a value commodity class rather than this 163 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,200 peer-to-peer currency. I think we we lose a lot of the 164 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,920 power that that Bitcoin really gives us as being this thing 165 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,880 that circumnavigates the state and trusted third parties and 166 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,840 all that. And if we lose that and it just 167 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,800 becomes another Q SIP, another ticker, another paper eyes asset 168 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,960 like gold, You know, I think it it really defangs a lot of the, 169 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,320 the beauty of Bitcoin and the power of Bitcoin and it plays 170 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,040 right into this financial class and it can actually be a tool 171 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,920 that you know, not just empowers, you know, the unbanked 172 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,480 global self citizen, but also you know, empowers the state. 173 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,240 So you know, that's kind of the, the general idea for why, you 174 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,440 know, we worked on this piece, why we did this piece. 175 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,200 And yeah, I think I think the idea sort of resonated with 176 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,280 people because I mean they just literally say it. 177 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,040 It's like it's pretty wild. I mean these these are just, 178 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:21,000 this isn't really like you know, an extrapolation or some kind of 179 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,200 like schizo theory here. I mean these are just kind of 180 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,800 things, these are just direct quotes really from Larry and 181 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,320 you, you go look at his history and this is kind of the stuff 182 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,240 he's done from the from the get go, right. 183 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,080 So yeah, that's kind of the little overview of the story 184 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:38,480 here. But yeah, tokenized ink piece 185 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,560 for Bitcoin Magazine that I wrote with Whitney Webb, you 186 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:45,000 know we Co posted it on a limited hangout as well which is 187 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,480 her site. And yeah, we've been kind of 188 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,680 working in that realm for a bit now. 189 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:54,000 We've done three pieces now since, you know, basically 190 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,600 Christmas. And all of them have kind of 191 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,600 been looking at sort of the the dollar system players that are 192 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,240 now kind of encroaching into Bitcoin and using Bitcoin and 193 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:10,000 you know, and some other pieces of side chains of Bitcoin, but 194 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,840 using Bitcoin as this asset storage and using this 195 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,520 technology that's apparent in blockchain to basically tokenize 196 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,280 the natural world. And that's something that I 197 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,320 think Larry wants to do. And now he's sort of proven that 198 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,920 he can tokenize Bitcoin, you know reduce it to this Q sip and 199 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,640 now he's going to move on to other things. 200 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,440 They have to find a way basically to service this debt 201 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,080 of the US government and how do they do that You know they need 202 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,120 they they they basically reversed the the old oil Baron 203 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,520 you know mechanism of digging in the ground for oil and now 204 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,440 they're debt barons and now they're digging holes not 205 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,760 looking for assets but looking for places to to shove debt 206 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,160 dollar denominated debt. So here they are looking to the 207 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,840 natural world looking to green finance looking to carbon credit 208 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,600 that they can denominate with private issued stable coins and 209 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:11,240 basically blow out the the the treasury by tokenizing the real 210 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,240 world. You know this is this is a trend 211 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,600 that we're seeing. You know when we wrote this 212 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,560 article you know BlackRock hadn't even really started yet 213 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:22,680 and now they have this huge USDC fund on Ethereum. 214 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,800 It's called the Buildle like BUIDL Fund and they're like you 215 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,480 know working on securitizing, tokenizing, you know, real world 216 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,760 assets on, on Ethereum basically using USDC, which is pretty much 217 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,880 exactly what we we spelled out in this in this article. 218 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,760 And now we're kind of seeing it and I think we're going to see a 219 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,200 lot more of that. And I think Bitcoiners should be 220 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,520 a little, a little concerned about this. 221 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,320 Larry's not a good guy, but that's kind of basically the, 222 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,360 the, the overview there. I know I've ranted for like 10 223 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,200 minutes now, but that that's sort of the idea, yeah. 224 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,560 And it was. It was amazing rant. 225 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:03,920 I wish. I kind of wish she kept going. 226 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,480 Oh shit. But no. 227 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,080 But I have so many questions, So many questions for you. 228 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,840 OK. So Larry Fink's not a good guy. 229 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:18,800 BlackRock has a a plan you're saying to you know they they 230 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,200 they they essentially want to capture this, they they want to 231 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,160 tokenize it like you said. Do you think that has anything 232 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,920 to do with the US government, the the kind of the regulatory 233 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,960 situation currently in the states where like you can see it 234 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,400 happening in slow of motion like for example today Cynthia Lummus 235 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,280 basically tried to tweet out and say like look they're they're 236 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,040 basically going after self custody. 237 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,160 It's not legislation, traditional legislation, it's 238 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:47,920 like legislation through enforcement. 239 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:49,800 Do you think it's interconnected? 240 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:56,360 Oh yeah, absolutely, man. I mean I'm, you know, I'd like 241 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,600 to think I'm based in in you know logic and and in in the 242 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,040 real world. But you know, I'm at this point 243 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,600 I'd say I'm a pretty full blown, you know that there is sort of a 244 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,200 conspiracy with the regulatory arm and the governing body, the 245 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:17,000 public sector of the United States to embrace Bitcoin as a 246 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,400 method of, you know, basically extending the, the, the economic 247 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,280 Hedgeman that is the US dollar system using this sort of demand 248 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,160 in elastic energy commodity. So I wrote a book called the 249 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,800 Bitcoin Dollar. The Bitcoin dollar being this, 250 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,000 it's kind of an analogue to the Petro dollar. 251 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,040 So it's not a literal monopoly on the insurance and outs of, 252 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,720 you know, buying an energy commodity. 253 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,240 But just like the Petro dollar, you know, it's basically, hey, 254 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,480 you know, you want to industrialize and buy oil, you 255 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,080 know, seventies, 80s, nineties, 2000s, two thousand 10s, you 256 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,400 want to industrialize and buy oil, you got to buy dollars 257 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,560 first. So what that does is it, it kind 258 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:03,240 of increases demands inorganically $4.00 because 259 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,840 people want this thing that they've basically done a de 260 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,960 facto monopoly on the insurance and outs of and they've dollar 261 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,640 denominated it. So anybody in Asia, they want to 262 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,400 buy oil from the Middle East, they got to buy dollars first. 263 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,160 They've basically created the same mechanism for Bitcoin. 264 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:28,600 You know all you know 99% basically certainly 97 plus 265 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,440 percent of of like volume in the Bitcoin market is is U.S. dollar 266 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,320 denominated. And you know a huge amount of 267 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,480 that is now in stable coins but but U.S. dollars in general and 268 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:44,040 you know these these heavily regulated on and off ramps are 269 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,640 dollar denominated. And so oil and Bitcoin are 270 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,280 actually kind of similar in a lot of ways as sort of this 271 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,040 energy based commodity. You know, despite my wanting it 272 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,960 to be more of a currency like there is a an absolute argument 273 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,800 to be made that that that analogue is sort of there. 274 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,160 And so I think that the the dollar regime is basically 275 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,320 proven that they'll do whatever they need to do to keep the 276 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,160 dollarization of the world growing and you know a way to 277 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,400 keep servicing their debt. And I think that they've kind of 278 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,840 found this method with Bitcoin. And I think when you look at the 279 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,800 regulatory stuff that's happening right now, it is a 280 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,640 push away towards self custody and it's a push towards these 281 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,040 like highly regulated instruments like an ETF. 282 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,600 And I think we're going to see more and more of that. 283 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,000 They're going to make it really difficult to kind of run and 284 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:38,160 write code most likely in the United States and and and have a 285 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,360 push towards these highly regulated instruments like ETFs. 286 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:42,800 That's what, you know, Larry wants. 287 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,000 And and and I think it's not a coincidence, you know, there's a 288 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,920 white pill in here, right? Where why did this happen five 289 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,320 days that, you know, why did the samurai arrest happen, you know, 290 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,680 a few days after the halving? You know, why is that? 291 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,560 Is the Bitcoin economic policy like that important where, you 292 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,079 know, having a relative issuance, you know, now below 293 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,800 gold coming out of the ground, you know, below like 1% relative 294 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,680 issuance. You know that I think that 295 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,560 there's a signpost there that that this economic policy is 296 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,839 really important, that these things are being timed up. 297 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,839 And this was something that I wrote, you know, at the end of 298 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,800 2021 when I did my first piece on the Bitcoin dollar, when I 299 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,160 first introduced this, this analog to the petrodollar, you 300 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:34,360 know, I made a a claim basically that the petrodollar died in 301 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,160 March 2020. When we saw that quote UN quote 302 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,800 COVID Low, we saw oil go negative, you know, in the 303 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:48,200 futures markets and we saw Bitcoin drop to 3500 bucks and 304 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,760 you know, then a year later, you know a 20X by by the end of of 305 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,560 the next year. But you know what? 306 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,320 Why was that moment so important? 307 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,320 Well, obviously it was COVID, right? 308 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,160 But now we've kind of learned a bit more about COVID, you know, 309 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,960 where, you know, depending on which level you're looking at 310 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,400 it, even if you're really going with, you know, the the, the 311 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,960 mainstream story here still it was, you know, you know, that 312 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,360 was arguably, you know, funded this game of function research 313 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:20,040 funded by the US government you know, hits off and Wuhan around 314 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,080 then. And there's there's mass 315 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,760 coordinated global shutdowns, you know, world empire context, 316 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,040 mass shutdowns, the same policies in Russia as in 317 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,520 Ukraine, as in Israel as in the United States as in everywhere 318 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,160 just did the exact same thing. It's kind of world empire 319 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:41,440 context and that's what, six weeks before the 3rd halving and 320 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,600 the third halving of course, I think was sort of the most 321 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,280 important having in a lot of ways 'cause it was the first 322 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,800 time that the rate of issuance relative to total supply was 323 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,800 below 2%. You know, when we went down to 324 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,960 three and you know three and change. 325 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,720 So that's the first time it's below the dollar, the target 326 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,680 rate of inflation of the dollar. So there's there's not really, I 327 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,240 mean I think it would be kind of insane to think that there 328 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:15,560 wasn't some you know, thinking there by maybe some of these 329 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,240 powers that be that, you know, hey, you know the US dollar now 330 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,720 is kind of it's kind of economically toast. 331 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,760 And what did we see over the next year, right. 332 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,680 We saw Bitcoin 20X. We saw the US dollar print 333 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,040 trillions and trillions, you know, under Trump. 334 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:40,040 And then we saw, you know, Trump bring in Brian Brooks, Mnuchin 335 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,440 and and this, this whole group, we saw, you know, him sign 336 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,520 policy in the OCC to say banks can hold stable coins and hold 337 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,200 crypto assets. And we saw all this like you 338 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:55,760 know, you know, forward dollar system moves in the public 339 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,120 sector. Meanwhile Trump is tweeting out 340 00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:01,240 Bitcoin, sucks the dollar rules, blah blah blah. 341 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,280 But like his actual actions behind it was, you know, the 342 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,920 digitalization of the dollar, you know and you know, through 343 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,240 stablecoins, you know that was really the action that was 344 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,800 happening despite the rhetoric. So I think there's a white pill 345 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,000 actually in this weird way, despite spelling out this public 346 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,200 sector capture is that these events are coordinated with the 347 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,840 having's which I think is important. 348 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,920 And again. I literally obviously can't 349 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,240 claim COVID is because of the the third having. 350 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,960 I mean that's ridiculous. But I don't know. 351 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,040 There's a lot of things that happened that if they want to 352 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,560 shut down the velocity of money in a hyperinflationary 353 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,000 situation, they know that we're, you know, over our skis, we have 354 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,920 to print trillions and trillions of dollars. 355 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,600 You know, the reverse repo market implode September 2019. 356 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:52,280 The Fed sets up these special instruments to sort of you know 357 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,120 bring liquidity to the repo market. 358 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,200 You know, you're starting to see issues in the treasury market. 359 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,440 You know all of a sudden there's a flu there's a thing shut down 360 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,600 boom, boom, boom, boom, boom and all these things kind of fall 361 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,360 into place. So I I I'm not really a believer 362 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:09,000 in coincidences anymore, Nico. I I think these things sort of 363 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,240 generally line up. So. 364 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,560 So here we are now it's days after the having a week after 365 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,720 the having it's Mayday and we're seeing all this fucking crazy 366 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,040 shit. I mean, I don't think it's a 367 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,840 coincidence. So yeah, here we are. 368 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,720 You know, one of my favorite quotes, Mark, is there are no 369 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,200 conspiracies. But there are also no 370 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:34,400 coincidences, and I have no shadow of a doubt the symbolic 371 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:41,760 nature of Roger Ver's arrest. C ZS sentencing the same day the 372 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,640 richest man to have ever gone to prison, you know? 373 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,240 Meanwhile, we're getting lectured on, you know, on, you 374 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,160 know, basically how the Samurai guys broke all these laws. 375 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,280 And I don't remember any notable or large or big banker going to 376 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,480 jail for what they did in 2008, 2009, even though they did 377 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,640 significantly more material damage to the American people, 378 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,520 to the world, frankly, than any type of dev writing code, Right. 379 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,320 That's that's utterly absurd. And I tweeted it out a couple 380 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,600 days ago, I said, you know, again to use your word, it's, 381 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,040 it's, it's not a coincidence that these arrests are having a 382 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,120 happening around the same time. It is extremely symbolic. 383 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,640 And one of the observations that I had, it was last cycle. 384 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,120 And I and Mark, maybe you appreciate this because I don't 385 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:43,280 see enough people talking about it, but the CCP mining ban came 386 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,520 in the middle of the parabola of the last bull run it it. 387 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,800 And I would even go on to say that was one of the primary 388 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,640 reasons we didn't hit 100K. Like if you take a look at the 389 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,680 hash rate and the price, you will literally see the price 390 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,760 peaking and the hash rate going down. 391 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,640 And of course all the cell pressure from those miners 392 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,560 having to sell Bitcoin, having to sell equipment to relocate to 393 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,440 a more favorable jurisdiction and it kind of created this like 394 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,760 double peak. It's like literally clear as 395 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,040 day. You see the hash rate, you see 396 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,120 the price going down, right. And you know it. 397 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:21,840 To your point, do you think you know a a nation state or a 398 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,400 government like the CCP, like in the United, they don't have the 399 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,360 sophistication to realize that they must attack the price. 400 00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:30,640 I mean there is these leaked documents that were coming out 401 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,240 of European regulators that said we have to do something about 402 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,840 the price. We have to do something about 403 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,360 the price. So yeah, dude, no way is this a 404 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,600 coincidence. I, I, I, I. 405 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,840 It's not only symbolic in nature, but it's on purpose. 406 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,400 And there's just been so many actions by the current 407 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,440 administration that have been incredibly hostile towards the 408 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,120 industry. The proposed 30% tax. 409 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,480 The, you know, the the, I remember the the White House 410 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,240 came out with the Presidential Economic Report. 411 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:11,120 They dedicated 20 effing pages bro, to making the case as to 412 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,720 why central bank digital currencies are necessary. 413 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,920 And you know Bitcoin is not right. 414 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,920 And do I think it's a coincidence that now they're the 415 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,760 FBI is releasing a so-called tips for citizens stay away 416 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,960 from, you know, unlicensed money transmitters a couple months 417 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,080 after the ETFs were approved? No, I don't think that's a 418 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,320 coincidence at all. But before I continue my 419 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,720 rambling, I think my question to you is what do bitcoiners need 420 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,520 to do to combat everything that you're talking about? 421 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,080 Right. So we're seeing this happen in 422 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,800 slow motion. It's like kind of the slow 423 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,840 motion train, honestly, I love the guys at BPII love David 424 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,680 Zell, the guys at Coin Center. Great Dennis Porter on the state 425 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,880 level is doing good job. But it's not enough. 426 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,840 Like, I feel like metaphorically we're getting beat up by a 2 by 427 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,520 4. They're telling you, listen, you 428 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,640 can give up your US citizenship. Doesn't matter 10 years later, 429 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,840 doesn't matter what country you are in the world. 430 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,000 We're going to nab you and we're going to put you in a box and 431 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,400 we're going to make an example out of you, right. 432 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,400 So we're definitely heading. We're definitely in the then 433 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,200 they fight you stage. What can individuals, individual 434 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,320 Bitcoiners do? Yeah, I mean, we've been in the 435 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,480 then they fight you stage for a long time. 436 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,000 I mean they've made examples out of our brothers, you know in 437 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,560 these Titans, you know someone like a Julian Assange. 438 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:45,080 You know for being a journalist, for publishing things, for 439 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,120 telling the truth. I think this idea in general my 440 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:52,040 my only issue with again and I and I, I agree with you all 441 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,640 those people you mentioned, Coin Center, BPI, Mr. Porter, like I 442 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,920 think they're incredibly nice people and there's a lot of 443 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,240 people involved in those things that I really do respect quite a 444 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,880 bit. But I think the general idea 445 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,400 that we're sort of and again, you know this, you know, may be 446 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,720 clippable and kind of bad, but like I just don't think we're 447 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,920 really in a rule of law anymore. I'm not sure rule of law is 448 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,400 really intact. You know what the Samurai guys 449 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,200 did you know is not, is not money transmitting, it's not 450 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,840 money laundering. I mean Bitcoin doesn't even 451 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,960 really work that way. It that that's not how the 452 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,960 Bitcoin system works. There's no transfers. 453 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,520 I mean it doesn't work in that same way. 454 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,960 Bitcoin can't be taxed as property and then be regulated 455 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,720 as a money transferring when you know when the regulatory arms 456 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,280 pick and choose. It's just not it's just not fair 457 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,560 in a in a rule of law, you know in a in a land with consistent 458 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:47,880 law. And so I think we have to sort 459 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,760 of realize that we're past that and realize especially too that 460 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,920 post COVID, post lockdowns, warp speed and and these mandates and 461 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,680 these things that you know we're in a world empire context and 462 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,880 the rule of law is, is, is is dubious at best. 463 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,200 And so I think that's the framework we have to kind of 464 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,840 understand that, yes, compliance will get you pretty far until it 465 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,400 doesn't. And what happens when you can't 466 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,160 comply anymore, when they don't let you comply anymore, then 467 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,400 you've really lost all of the ground that you maybe could have 468 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,760 spent fighting while you were so busy complying and and licking 469 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,480 boots. And so I'm not calling out any 470 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,520 of these organizations at all because I think we need to 471 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,680 attack on all fronts. We need people doing those 472 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,040 things. We need people going through the 473 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,600 compliance angle. But I think in terms of 474 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,360 individuals, it's like, like, no, we need to kind of stand up 475 00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:45,720 and you know, think about what's happening here. 476 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,600 You know, the rule of law is not being, is not being promoted, 477 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,160 not being protected. We we shouldn't expect it to be. 478 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,640 They're changing definitions at a whim when it when it suits 479 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,200 them. And so that's kind of the you 480 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,040 know the framework that we have to operate in So understanding 481 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,800 that we need to make sure that you know we we keep Bitcoin as 482 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,080 permission less as it was when we found it. 483 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,920 I think that's the only responsibility bitcoiners have 484 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,360 to Bitcoin and that is not really you know that's that's 485 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:23,360 becoming increasingly more difficult as you know they're 486 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:27,000 pushing these self custody solutions you know further and 487 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,280 further out of the you know the the the reach of of American 488 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,720 citizens and of app stores and of you know kind of the more 489 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,240 traditional not quite so public squares that people download 490 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,560 these the software in. And so I think we need to kind 491 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,440 of think adversarially and and build more sustainable systems 492 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,320 that can withstand state sponsored attacks. 493 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,480 I think we need to reject the notion that Bitcoin will scale 494 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,760 through stable coins. It's fucking ridiculous. 495 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,560 It's it's very clearly a state sponsored mode of discourse that 496 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,120 that's an option and that is the way that we should go about it. 497 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,480 No. Like Bitcoin is a technology and 498 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,720 like John Nash said, you know it's technology that we can, you 499 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,240 know tweak and grow and make better and make more efficient 500 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,400 for its purposes. It's a technology so we need to 501 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,600 figure out scaling mechanisms that allow billions of people to 502 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,480 use it in a in a self sovereign, self custodial, permissionless, 503 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,440 censorship resistant way. I don't think it's appropriate 504 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,360 for me, both in terms of my technical lack of knowledge and 505 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,760 also my editorial position that I don't think I should be 506 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,920 pushing specific, you know, past. 507 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,840 I don't think it's really appropriate, but you know, 508 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,240 whatever it is, I think we need to, we need to build those tools 509 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,400 in those systems. You know, of course, use 510 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,360 lightning, use E cash, use these other L twos that are coming up, 511 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,960 consider coming in proposals and and make sure that Bitcoin is 512 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,520 ready to, you know, to to to service. 513 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,600 You know, when Fiat, you know, 'cause let's just be honest, you 514 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,880 know, as much as we love Bitcoin and it's given us so much 515 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:18,800 freedom, you know, if if a huge world currency collapsed and 516 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,400 billions of people needed to be on boarded overnight onto the 517 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,840 Bitcoin network, that just wouldn't really be possible 518 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,960 right now. You couldn't open a billion 519 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,520 lightning channels. It would take years at current 520 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,520 you know, channel factory, you know, inability and you know, 521 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,760 the self creating a billion UTXOS would take an incredibly 522 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,600 long time. So there's a lot of things that 523 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:48,360 we need to kind of like build infrastructurally, you know, to 524 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,440 allow citizens or not even citizens, but just people to 525 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,440 have access to this, you know, permissionless Ledger. 526 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,320 So yeah, the attack is coming. The state is here. 527 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,720 Bitcoin is for enemies. Our state is the enemy. 528 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,880 Bitcoin empowers the individual. And you know, in a world where 529 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,600 corporations are individuals and countries are corporations, 530 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,960 therefore countries are individuals, it's like countries 531 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,120 and nation states can be and powered by Bitcoin, whether 532 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,200 that's, you know, like an El Salvador scenario or even kind 533 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,480 of more maybe like a a shadowy U.S. economic hedgeman 534 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,440 perpetuation, you know, using Bitcoin. 535 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,440 So I think we need to think more adversarially. 536 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,440 We need to think of Bitcoin as a technology and make sure that we 537 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,440 keep it this peer-to-peer, you know, medium of exchange. 538 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:48,080 Make sure we optimize for that. Because I can tell that, you 539 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:53,560 know, these Ghouly goblins want us to look at it as a commodity, 540 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,960 look at it as a store of value. Only look at it as something 541 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,600 that can be ETF and reduced to AQ SIP. 542 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,880 And look at it as something that, you know, they want us to 543 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,080 look at it as something that just sits on a balance sheet and 544 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,280 appreciates. You know, there's this rhetoric 545 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,000 of never spend your Bitcoin, you know, use credit cards or use 546 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,080 tether and, you know, and keep your Bitcoin, you know, and it's 547 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,920 like, no, Bitcoin's a means to an end. 548 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,440 Use it to build a better world. You know, it's that that that's 549 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,040 really what this is for. It's about perpetuating freedom, 550 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,000 building more sustainable infrastructure that will allow 551 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:35,840 the individual to thrive as the state sort of, you know, loses 552 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,960 its, its, you know, both, you know, right now at the, the 553 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,440 state is, is, is is a burning ship. 554 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,960 I mean, the $34 trillion of debt, you know, the rats are 555 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,280 escaping. They're jumping off this 556 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,600 burning, you know, runaway debt service. 557 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,520 It's a zombie company. the United States, you would never 558 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,640 invest in it. You know, it's it's it's debt 559 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,000 service is now outpacing the growth of its GDP, you know, 560 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,120 taking around the back, Old Yeller it, right. 561 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,920 So people are jumping off and removing themselves from it. 562 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,960 And that's why I think there's this big rhetoric shift like 563 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,600 we're moving towards the malaise. 564 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,480 You know, at the after AUFC fight, we got Joe Rogan holding 565 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,240 a microphone and we got a guy going, I love private property. 566 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,720 You know, it's like, yeah, they want us to love private 567 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,240 property. Now that they've stolen 568 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,040 everything from our, from our grandkids, from our 569 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,520 grandparents, you know, that they've looted the treasury. 570 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,520 Now they want to push private property in the Austrian school 571 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,480 and all these, you know, badass great things, sure, of course. 572 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,720 But like, it serves them now to push us towards this, you know, 573 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,560 kind of Malay mindset now that they've looted everything. 574 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,040 So they want us to blame the central banks, Fuck the central 575 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,040 banks, but fuck the private banks that that pushed the 576 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,760 private, that pushed the public sector to blow up 2008 and make 577 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,640 them too big to fail. You know, it was, it was 578 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,360 Greenspan who was at JP Morgan, you know, who wrote the 579 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,320 rethinking Glass? Steagall who pushed for the 580 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,360 dissolving of Glass Steagall. You know, these guys jumping in 581 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,639 and out, private, public whenever it works for them. 582 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,120 You know, they're all kind of in the pub in the private sector 583 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,400 now, you know, sitting on their, on their, you know, COVID money, 584 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,679 you know. And you know, of course now 585 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,239 they're pushing, you know, this, this, you know, free market 586 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,040 capitalism. Malay is talking at Davos, you 587 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,840 know, saying how badass capitalism is. 588 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,800 It's like, yeah, sure, capitalism is badass, but you 589 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,239 know it there, there's a, there's a reason why we're 590 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,920 seeing that, you know, that you don't see anything by mistake. 591 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,800 There's not an accident when you see something. 592 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,639 There's a reason why this person is being promoted and it's 593 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:47,040 because it's useful for them to push us towards, you know, cheer 594 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,440 on the free market as they tokenize the carbon in your 595 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,600 backyard and and shove it on a Bitcoin side chain and throw a 596 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,400 satellite in space and they observe you to check on your 597 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,920 carbon. And it's Steve Mnuchin and Howie 598 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,800 Lutnik, who you know is the CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald who holds 599 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,560 all of tethers, you know, treasuries like they're running 600 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,040 this private sector intelligence company. 601 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,080 The CIA has gone private. It's in Palantir now. 602 00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:16,000 Like, this is so good. It's so based the free market, 603 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,760 like, not really. Like, fuck all those guys, you 604 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,880 know. Fuck Palantir. 605 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,440 Fuck Peter Thiel, you know, Fuck Mnuchin. 606 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,240 Fuck these guys. They're they're ghouls that 607 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,560 have, you know, taken advantage when the public sector has 608 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,680 allowed it to accrue massive amounts of wealth and they're 609 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,920 using it as a way to control and observe us and sell our data. 610 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,440 Like, I don't. I don't think that's based, I 611 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,160 don't think what Peter Thiel is doing with Palantir is based at 612 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,560 all, even though I'm a free market capitalist and I'm not. 613 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,160 I'm not trying to say we should put regulations in to stop it. 614 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,800 Just like I would never argue we should filter out tether shoving 615 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,480 fucking, you know, petrodollars and the witness Merkel of 616 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,400 Bitcoin. Like I don't want to filter that 617 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,320 shit either. It's a permissionless system. 618 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,160 Let them do it. But we should talk shit about it 619 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,680 and say how this is dumb. Let's scale Bitcoin with actual 620 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,520 scaling solutions that don't perpetuate the military 621 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,000 industrial complex of the United States via the treasury. 622 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,960 Ponzi, right? Like let's let's do that. 623 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,800 So that would be my answer. That's my long winded answer is 624 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,200 call these fuckers out and let's let's let's make Bitcoin. 625 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,600 You know the this, this ship that can that can service 8 626 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,760 billion people that need to get out from underneath the 627 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:33,320 encroaching tentacles of of the nation state collapsing. 100% 628 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,760 dude and and you know I I bro it's it's like I hate saying I 629 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,120 what I say is I say Bitcoin or slavery right. 630 00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:47,800 And you know, I, I, I said it very early on, and I think a lot 631 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,760 of people interpreted it as this hyperbolic statement. 632 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:56,960 But once you really understand that there you really only have 633 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,200 two options, right? It's a future of of it's a Fiat 634 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:02,680 future. It's a Bitcoin future. 635 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,760 It's a it's a future of of peace, prosperity, optimism, 636 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,600 hope versus future of nihilism, endless war, slavery. 637 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,040 You know you name it. Right. 638 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,080 And I think the the battle lines are a little bit obfuscated 639 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,680 right now. I think people can't really see, 640 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,920 you know, the two options ahead of them. 641 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,280 But it's it's clear as day for anyone who's paying attention. 642 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,720 And you actually reminded me of of something you said was like 643 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,840 we're living in this era of no laws and actually and you were 644 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,440 mentioning beauty on earlier, love, beauty on what he's doing 645 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,240 with this Stecco is is amazing. And it reminded me of one of the 646 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,600 one of the tweets, I don't know if he originally quote wrote 647 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,120 this, but this comes from his Twitter account. 648 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,800 It says the FBI calls Bitcoin money so they can arrest you for 649 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,040 for money laundering. The IRS calls it property so 650 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,840 they can tax you on capital gains. 651 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,480 The SEC calls it a security so they can sue every exchange. 652 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,880 And the CFTC calls it a commodity, so you can't use it 653 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,280 as a currency. So it is a currency when it's 654 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,800 convenient to them, when they, when they need it for law. 655 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,120 Fair it's not a currency when you know it can't be a currency 656 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:15,600 because if it's a currency then capital gains WTF And then but I 657 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,800 I I also think that they're in this like pickle man like 658 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,680 they're in this pickle I I think if we get to a we get to a point 659 00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:26,080 and the Overton window is shifting the Internet and 660 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,600 peer-to-peer mass level communications brother like you 661 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,480 know your podcast for example that you did with with Whitney 662 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:38,080 Webb and you you start to see this it's the the slow death of 663 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,880 the legacy corporate media and the rise of independent content 664 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,520 creators and it allows people to circumvent the gatekeepers of 665 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,520 information and we're seeing like this great awakening in the 666 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,040 process because of that. I think people are are are are 667 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:57,320 starting to question the the official party line and I think 668 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,920 most importantly you know as as bitcoiners is to really push 669 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,000 this message forward of of like if we get the mainstream 670 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,360 consciousness and and the mainstream populace to just ask 671 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:15,040 the question number one what is money and #2 why should I be 672 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,000 forced to use the money that steals from me. 673 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,520 Like they don't have a good answer for that. 674 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,480 Like they don't have one. You see them struggling trying 675 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,160 to justify the CBD CS with we need more efficient payments. 676 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:34,560 Like they completely ignore the inflation aspect side of things. 677 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:41,800 So you know like I'm, I hear you and I I think we we we, we do 678 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,360 have a tremendous amount of work to do education but I also think 679 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,400 that by the day more and more people join our ranks. 680 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,720 What would you say about that? I I totally agree, Absolutely. 681 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:57,800 I think the the the sort of false dichotomies that's been 682 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,120 presented to us. You know if if you're if you're 683 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,880 really still buying that up and lapping that up after COVID, you 684 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,240 know I think there's really something wrong with with your 685 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,360 perception. No offence if you really are 686 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,200 buying the red versus blue, like I mean I we watched the 180 687 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,480 phase shift happen where? You know, Trump was pushing the 688 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,360 vaccines and then three months later I was in the Bay. 689 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,520 I chose not to get vaccinated. I'm being called a Trumper 690 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,480 because I didn't want to get vaccinated. 691 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,600 And it's like what? How did, how did we get here? 692 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,360 What happened? I don't even understand this. 693 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,840 Like Kamala was saying she didn't want to take the vaccine 694 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,920 because it's Trump's vaccine and now I'm AI mean it's just the 695 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,320 phase shifts are happening so fast. 696 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,400 The cycles are compressing so fast that yeah, maybe you didn't 697 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,080 quite get that everything was fucked up after 9-11. 698 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,640 Maybe you didn't quite get everything was fucked up after 699 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,880 2008. But COVID was a really quick 700 00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:00,280 turn around and I think that you know our generation were so 701 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,560 hyper connected. There's so much information 702 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,840 being exchanged that you're right, there's a huge 703 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,080 opportunity to to gain inroads into the consciousness of, you 704 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,960 know, 'cause I think humans are really, they're they're a social 705 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,240 group. There's there isn't mass 706 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:16,640 consciousness. And I think there's a huge 707 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,760 opportunity now for bitcoiners, for freedom loving people, you 708 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,760 know, to stand up for the truth and and you know, perpetuate, 709 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,520 you know, this idea that Bitcoin is a means to an end for a 710 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,720 better world and how do we, how do we actualize that? 711 00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:34,800 But I do think there's also you know some danger in the 712 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,120 Internet, in the hyper connectivity and there's a lot 713 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,760 of Co option within you know the the counter narrative as well. 714 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,760 Also something I noticed with COVID. 715 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,880 You know, I think at this point, you know maybe I'll get roasted 716 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,680 for this, but at this point I kind of see a lot of the vaccine 717 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,800 discourse as basically just being a distraction from the 718 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,920 fact that they shut down the fucking country and told us that 719 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,720 we couldn't walk around and do stuff. 720 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,320 So we're all worrying about clots and this and blah blah, 721 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,720 blah and whatever. And it's no one even cares that 722 00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:11,480 they literally locked us in their homes and and destroyed 723 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,160 the working class and and and so much of the discourse from that 724 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,080 was so controlled and Dom and now we're learning like oh man, 725 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,640 a lot of that was actually kind of paid by these sort of private 726 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,680 you know intelligence. And so we're seeing, you know, 727 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,840 the great example, not to tie it all the ways, always back to 728 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,440 Tether, but who took Rumble public? 729 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,280 It was Cantor Fitzgerald. It was our boy Howie Lutnik 730 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,280 taken Rumble public, who's a huge investor in Rumble, Peter 731 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,480 Thiel. You know, he's dabbling on both 732 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,880 sides here. And so there is this huge 733 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,480 controlled narrative also on the alternative side. 734 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,040 You know, of course, no one trusts mainstream media anymore, 735 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,200 but I think it's it. It's pretty easy to buy a 736 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,200 podcast. It's pretty easy to buy a 737 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,200 company, a Bitcoin company. It's pretty easy to tetherize a 738 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,840 Bitcoin company, right? And so much discourse in the 739 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,320 Bitcoin space is sponsored by the US Treasury system via 740 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,400 Tether, which is just something that needs to be talked about. 741 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,080 Doesn't mean they're bad people, doesn't mean that everything 742 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,600 they say is a lie or whatever. But they're not going to go as 743 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:19,200 hard at that, you know, You know, at a tether or something 744 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,840 if that's just paying their paycheck, right? 745 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,080 And. You and you're you're burying 746 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,280 the lead there a little bit because I think not that many 747 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,960 people are aware of of that of what you just said, right. 748 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,560 The fact that Tether is one of the largest U.S. 749 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,880 Treasury holders. I think the IT just they just 750 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,560 posted their their profits. I think they made like 4.7 751 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,200 billion or something like that, yeah. 752 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,720 They have, they have 110 plus billion dollars of Treasuries, 753 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:51,040 like China is like barely over a trillion. 754 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,480 So they're at like a 10th of China, like already like what? 755 00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:58,200 Think about that, guys. Think about. 756 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,640 That it it's it's pretty crazy. So Mark, I I wanted to ask you, 757 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,960 'cause you you mentioned you said they who is they? 758 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,960 Like, who is this, this, this this cartel. 759 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,960 Like who is this? I'm, I'm using Andreas's words 760 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,000 when I say cartel here. Who is this cartel? 761 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,320 Who is this cabal of people that is pulling the strings? 762 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,480 Yeah, totally. I mean, I'm not necessarily here 763 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,280 to name, you know, specific names. 764 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,480 I like to look at mechanisms and I think it mechanisms are more 765 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,440 important. I wrote the Bitcoin Dollar 766 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:32,240 basically not naming any names, obviously had to list a couple 767 00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:34,520 companies. But you know, I'm, I don't think 768 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,120 Paolo's name is even in that book, right. 769 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:39,720 And nothing personal against Paolo. 770 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:43,440 Again, it's about the mechanisms and I think that's how we have 771 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,200 to really look at this stuff. It's who's building the 772 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,360 mechanisms you know who who who's encouraging stable coins 773 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,280 on lightning. Who's who's building these 774 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,320 things you know and and and those are those are the kind of 775 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,520 you know you begin to kind of follow that money And you you 776 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,160 know I got Joe Rogers our boyfriend of the show friend of 777 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,000 all of ours. You know hooked me up with a 778 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,400 with a crunch base account and I'm going through looking at 779 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,840 fucking every single VC seed raised. 780 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,720 You know everything of all of these companies and you start to 781 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:19,160 piece together this kind of cartel of people that have 782 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:24,520 really infiltrated the Bitcoin space, the crypto space and you 783 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,120 start to see this tokenized Inc take form. 784 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,920 This dollarization Inc take form. 785 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:36,560 And I think unfortunately a big part of this group is directly 786 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:41,240 connected with the like the what is known as the PayPal mafia. 787 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,600 And I think you start to look at PayPal and these players and and 788 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:51,000 who's, you know, the big shakers in scene now and a lot of them 789 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,680 can be connected back to PayPal. So, you know, like someone like 790 00:45:54,680 --> 00:46:00,240 Reed Hoffman who's, you know, PayPal OG, you know, he was, you 791 00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:03,760 know, the founder of LinkedIn, you know this, you know, it's, 792 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,040 you know, it's kind of wild. A lot of these PayPal guys, you 793 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,120 know, became billionaires like multiple times. 794 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,080 They hit gold multiple times in a row, kind of interesting. 795 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:16,280 And you know, someone like him. So, you know, he invests, he's 796 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,080 the lead of the of the, you know, the Series A, The Seed 797 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,760 found seed round for Block Stream in November 2014. 798 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,640 Well then October 2014, Block Stream releases a paper that 799 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,720 basically explains how side chains work and that, you know, 800 00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:39,440 basically allows them to, you know, put other assets onto 801 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,360 Bitcoin and create this, this, this peg mechanism. 802 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,200 Kind of interesting. You look at, you know, who was, 803 00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:50,560 you know, this, the, you know, these early founders of PayPal. 804 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,520 And you know, you look at this guy, there's this, this guy with 805 00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:01,080 Bill Elkus who was one of the main founders of PayPal in 97. 806 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,440 He was the cosignee of the Jay Epstein Foundation. 807 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,440 And then he goes on to form Clearstone with William Quigley, 808 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,040 which is another VC firm who considers himself one of the Co 809 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:18,360 founders of Tether. You look at Howie Lutnik, he's 810 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:24,320 buying assets, real estate assets out of off of the Epstein 811 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,040 estate. You know he owns I believe 1170 812 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,120 First East St. Epstein owned 9. 813 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,040 And and the the the fund was that he bought it from Comet 814 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,040 Trust was connected with Guido Goldman and and and Wexner and 815 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,120 all these guys kind of connected to this cabal. 816 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,400 They're all, you know Reed Hoffman is an Epstein guy. 817 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,840 You know obviously Peter Thiel and and Elon and you know you 818 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,120 kind of start to see these guys that you know well what Epstein. 819 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,520 What was Epstein really. Yeah. 820 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,960 Everyone focuses on the trafficking and sure he did 821 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,520 that, but he was kind of an economic hit man and he was a 822 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,040 big part of of a lot of the things that happened in O Wade 823 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,440 and was kind of bopping around doing you know running some 824 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,920 estate stuff for the Bronfman's. And then you look at the 825 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,520 Bronfman's, they're directly connected with this group 826 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:18,520 endeavour, which is sort of this like kind of you know, advisory 827 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,960 group that's that's all over. You know, MercadoLibre, which is 828 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,120 the biggest market in South America, was Zappa with Winces 829 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,280 Cassaris, who was kind of the patient zero of Silicon Valley 830 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,440 for Bitcoin. He brought Bitcoin to all of 831 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:37,720 these guys there, got these guys. 832 00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:40,040 So you start to kind of piece together the money. 833 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,280 You follow the money and you start to see a web of of these 834 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,120 people that are directly connected to some of the 835 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:49,320 spookiest people around. And you know, a lot of these 836 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,600 guys are, you know, building satellite companies and doing 837 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,360 all this crazy shit in South America, in Argentina. 838 00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,400 That was the piece that we just wrote, Debt from Above. 839 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,280 It kind of focuses on this satellite company. 840 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,160 That's Howie Lutnik and Mnuchin, General Dunford, who is the 841 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,640 chief of staff under Trump. Marcos Galperin, who's the 842 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,440 richest man in Argentina and Endeavour Guy who runs 843 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,040 MercadoLibre and then Howie Lutnik, you know, so you're 844 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,960 beginning to kind of see these connections. 845 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:25,120 You're seeing Larry Summers on the board of Zappo, you know, 846 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,920 and he was a big part of the, you know, dissolving of Glass 847 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,840 Steagall in the United States. You just start to see all this 848 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:34,600 stuff. It's very hard to ignore. 849 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,440 So I think that there is a cartel there. 850 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,680 There is sort of this dollar system, private sector cabal 851 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,880 that has been sort of pushing things from behind the scenes 852 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:53,280 for a really long time. You look at, you know, at a 853 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,520 dozen times in the in the 90s, a new trade agreement is 854 00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,400 happening, which ends up kind of blowing up the Mexican peso who, 855 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,440 who does the George Soros thing and shorts the peso all the way 856 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:04,880 down. It's Joe Lewis. 857 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,160 Who's Joe Lewis? He's the Deltec guy who's the 858 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,760 banker for Tether. You start to see all these 859 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,400 connections, this kind of conspiracy all comes together. 860 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,880 And yeah, there's there's there's some, there's some shady 861 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,960 stuff going on in the dollar system, in Bitcoin, in some of 862 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,320 the Bitcoin infrastructure, in the stable coin infrastructure 863 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:30,920 of their bankers. And yeah, I mean that that's to 864 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,720 my best, you know, hours and hours of pouring over these 865 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:37,880 things, looking at all these Series A series BS that going 866 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,040 through the portfolios of all these people. 867 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:44,720 You know, I like to just do kind of all public information, you 868 00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:47,760 know, kind of open source intelligence stuff, 'cause it's 869 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,080 just it's much safer and you don't you getting in less 870 00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,400 trouble, 'cause you're not speculating as as much. 871 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,400 You know, I think people sometimes, you know, accused our 872 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,920 work of being doomed, hilled and just loose associations and all 873 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:01,880 this. But it's like, well, they're not 874 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,400 really that loose associations. I think they're pretty direct. 875 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,960 So, like, no, I don't think that there's like a weekly Tuesday 876 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,880 meeting where all these guys get together and then they say, OK, 877 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,720 you know, three weeks out from the halving, OK, let's get ready 878 00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:17,800 to charge samurai. Like, I don't, I don't think 879 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,440 it's directly that. I think it's a lot more, you 880 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,960 know, people operating. Some of them are willing, some 881 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,480 of them are unwilling, some of them are useful idiots. 882 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,920 I think it's a whole smattering of things. 883 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,320 I think that's how a lot of these kind of societies and 884 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,120 cabals kind of work, that there's someone who knows what's 885 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,040 going on, but most of the agents don't. 886 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,920 So I think we're kind of in that in that zone where you can only 887 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:47,520 really begin to see the sketching out of the cabal, the 888 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,760 cartel, whatever you want to call it when you like, you know, 889 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,520 really zoom out. So there's a lot to look there. 890 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,200 But I would, I would tell people to look at the PayPal mafia, 891 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,000 look at these guys, look at look at, look look at all the things 892 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,240 that they've done all their VC firms and how they've really 893 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:07,400 integrated, you know, you know from Goldman and Morgan Stanley 894 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:11,120 and JP Morgan and that you know they've really like digitized 895 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,000 the dollar and and really created these information 896 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,920 networks. You know, all these guys have 897 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:22,200 moved on to LinkedIn and Kiva and you know these these other 898 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,760 product X, right. You know these other products 899 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,840 that are really networks more than kind of anything Palantir 900 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,040 is a is a, you know, they sell data to the government, right. 901 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:36,120 It's like so you know there's there's obviously a great power 902 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,280 in data and so many of these guys have have understood that 903 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,320 and you start to look into the the the cartel behind the data 904 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,280 markets. I just did a piece on that for 905 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,920 the last magazine called Random Access Markets. 906 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,440 That's all about data markets. And you know, you, you, you get 907 00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,080 some really spooky stuff. The Maxwell sisters, Jolene 908 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,360 Maxwell sisters were like some of the biggest proponents of 909 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,840 early Internet search engines. Magellan was a Christine Maxwell 910 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,280 project. And you, you start to see this 911 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,800 connection unfortunately. And so information runs the 912 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,760 world just as much as dollars and information. 913 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,360 You know, it's it's kind of like a Web Three talking point. 914 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,600 But like, it's the new oil. It's like, well, it kind of 915 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,840 always was like, that's how they control people, right? 916 00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,800 That's why these blackmail schemes exist. 917 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,240 It's to catch you in a compromising place where they 918 00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:31,880 can control you, not 'cause they want you to be doing nefarious, 919 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:33,760 gross stuff. It's so they can control you. 920 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:35,840 That's why we're seeing the Diddy shit. 921 00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:37,360 That's why we're seeing this crap. 922 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,240 It's about control. So how do you control people? 923 00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:42,840 How do you create a cartel? Well, if you get a group of 924 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,640 people that are controlled from the very beginning, like say 925 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,440 maybe a PayPal mafia and then you use these same players for, 926 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,480 you know, 3 decades, you know, that's maybe how we get in this 927 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,640 situation that we're in. So I would say look there. 928 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,200 Absolutely, Man. This is this is fascinating 929 00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,000 stuff. So, so fascinating guys, go go 930 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,960 check out Mark's writing. This is, you know, this is, I 931 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,920 can't, I can't imagine how deep this rabbit hole goes but it 932 00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,320 seems like you've you're connecting the dots and yeah, 933 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,480 it's it's it's just interesting. Anyways, so we did have a really 934 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,600 interesting question from the audience and I I do wanna ask 935 00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,960 you that last 'cause we are getting very close to the top of 936 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:29,800 the hour, but high higher calling was higher callering. 937 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,440 Was wondering if you thought that they could pull off their 938 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:38,200 plan and he commented that Whitney seems to think that 939 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,600 there is a real chance. And then lastly, this kind of 940 00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:46,040 goes against a lot of the theory from a lot of bitcoiners, which 941 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,960 is you know like Safedeen for example, love the guy, super 942 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,000 great writer and enjoyed his works, but you know he believes 943 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,600 that Bitcoin has already won, right? 944 00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,120 We we've heard this many, many times. 945 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:05,400 So where are you on that camp? Yeah, I mean, it depends on what 946 00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:09,680 you mean by one, right? I mean, I think Bitcoin is 947 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:14,320 inevitable. I think that it's it's it's here 948 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,160 let me, let me. Let me interrupt you and let me 949 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:17,840 rephrase the question. Sure. 950 00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,960 Will Bitcoin Enable the Separation of Money in State? 951 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,680 OK that's a much better question with of all due respect to your 952 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,560 first question which was also a good question but that's a much 953 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:34,760 that's a much better question. I don't know I think on this is 954 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,840 a time frame based question and this is something that you know 955 00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,040 you know CK you know long time epic Bitcoin magazine guy who 956 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,200 who brought me and he he has this philosophy that everything 957 00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:50,240 is good for Bitcoin. And I think on long enough time 958 00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:54,920 frames that's probably true like an ETF probably is good for 959 00:55:54,920 --> 00:56:01,520 Bitcoin long, long long, long term but I think short and 960 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,240 medium term it could potentially be very, very bad. 961 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:06,920 And I think that there's a lot of ways that Bitcoin can 962 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,240 monetize like that. It kind of depends on what your 963 00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:12,840 metrics for success. So if the if the metrics of 964 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:19,240 success is separating, you know, money and state, well depending 965 00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:22,120 on the axioms of that, it has already won. 966 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:26,600 I think you know if we look at you know, the monetary policy 967 00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,080 landmarks of the having, you know, being right around these 968 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,880 humongous geopolitical macro events, I think you could argue 969 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,640 that the the economic policy of Bitcoin is already a world 970 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:44,440 changing certainly country changing, you know, the events. 971 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:48,680 So in that sense, yes, I think you know, the, the new kind of, 972 00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,360 you know, federal funding rate or whatever, the new interest 973 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,160 rate, you know, in many ways you could say is the issuance of 974 00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,840 Bitcoin, the block reward, which I think is a state change of 975 00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,880 money, no pun intended. And I think that's important. 976 00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:07,200 But can the dollar system use Bitcoin in the same way they 977 00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:12,440 used oil as a way to increase dollar demand and perpetuate the 978 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,800 US dollar system another 80 years? 979 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,240 Absolutely, they can. And I think when you're seeing, 980 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,640 you know, a million or so Bitcoin, you know, within the 981 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,600 borders of the United States, whether through DOJ seizures or 982 00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:31,880 micro strategy or the ETFs, that can be seized basically by the 983 00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,680 United States government almost inevitably seized by the United 984 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,080 States government or already seized by the US government. 985 00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,760 This idea of Bitcoin being unseasable money, I think is is 986 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,920 sort of a joke when it has been seized, you know, a million 987 00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,440 times or whatever, right? Yes, I understand that's not how 988 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:52,120 cryptography works, yadda yadda. But also we have seen it. 989 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,520 We have seen the US government, you know, seize, seize funds. 990 00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,760 So it is possible. It's like, it's like, I think a 991 00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,440 lot of people have the conception where it's like, 992 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,120 they're gonna seize it the way that they seize money. 993 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,080 But they forget that human beings operate in meet space, 994 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,120 and you put a human being, you break down their door, show up 995 00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,480 with a bunch of guns, put a gun in your face, and what are you 996 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:18,360 gonna do? You're most likely gonna hand 997 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:20,320 over the keys, right? Absolutely. 998 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,360 Like, yeah, we talk, we talk big games. 999 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,840 And I think there's a lot of badass bitcoiners that probably 1000 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,320 would start blasting, you know, and and and and fuck, yeah, 1001 00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,240 dude. I mean, I'm condoning. 1002 00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:33,200 I don't want to. I'm not condoning on video 1003 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,280 attacking law enforcement. I'm not saying that. 1004 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,440 I just want to be very clear to the YouTube gods. 1005 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,640 I'm not saying that. But you know, like, you know, 1006 00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,240 hey, there are people that will put their money where their 1007 00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,560 mouths is in their blood, where their, where their mouths are 1008 00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:48,840 and and and defend Bitcoin. But I think a lot of people, 1009 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:50,200 that's not what they're in here for. 1010 00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,640 And so if the situation gets presented where they go, hey, 1011 00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,600 we're going to shove you onto this Bitcoin side chain where 1012 00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,080 you get a, you know, an IOU, but we let you keep your limbs. 1013 00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,880 You know, you still want $1,000,000. 1014 00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:05,440 Those people are going to go do it. 1015 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,800 You know, I think the majority of bitcoiners will do that. 1016 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:10,720 That's sort of how they'll win. They'll dangle this thing and 1017 00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:14,200 kind of get us to, you know, hey, you want you want all the 1018 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,240 carbon credits that are offset by the forest in your backyard. 1019 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,240 You know, all you got to do is get this digital ID and sign up 1020 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:25,760 for this blockchain and we'll give you a hundred, $133,000 1021 00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:28,440 because of your forest. You know, people are going to do 1022 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,040 that because they're going to be like, well, fuck yeah, I don't 1023 00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,120 have anything else. And then where do those land 1024 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,240 rights go? Where do the you know the the 1025 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,800 world is going to end in like unread user agreements that's 1026 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,440 gonna kind of be that that's that's the apocalypse here. 1027 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,680 So I think Bitcoin in many ways can monetize to millions and 1028 00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:49,240 millions of dollars and not actually increase the day-to-day 1029 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,600 freedom of most people. I think that there will be a lot 1030 00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,680 of us that will you know have increased purchasing power in 1031 00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,560 the short term before things get kind of crazy And that This is 1032 01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,800 why I think this is kind of the most important time in Bitcoin 1033 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,840 sort of ever it we're we're getting split between the state, 1034 01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,560 anti state. Compliance, degeneracy and I 1035 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,360 think we need to kind of lean into anti state, lean into 1036 01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,760 degeneracy and build these tools. 1037 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,000 Lean into freedom, bro. Freedom. 1038 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,600 Right, Absolutely. Yeah. 1039 01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,120 And our enemy is not again and not to get preachy, 'cause I 1040 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,000 think a lot of the ordinal stuff is really dumb, but like our 1041 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:30,160 enemy is not a guy in a Pepe hat who is throwing some fucking 1042 01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:33,160 stupid gifts on fucking Bitcoin. That's not our enemy. 1043 01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,040 Our enemy is the state and the US Treasury system. 1044 01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:41,240 So let's like remember who it is and you know, let's not cheer on 1045 01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,320 the arrest of our brothers and and the the encroachment of the 1046 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:48,120 state. And you know, you know, let's, 1047 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,760 let's, let's remember who the enemy is here and let's, let's, 1048 01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,280 let's hopefully have Bitcoin be a means to an end for freedom, 1049 01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,720 for for individuals. And I think, I think we can win. 1050 01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,320 I do think that they'll, that they'll do some damn good damage 1051 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,920 with their fucking plans. But I believe in humans. 1052 01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:07,720 I believe the good comes together in the end. 1053 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,280 I believe good is coming together. 1054 01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,080 I believe people are more aware of this shit than ever. 1055 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,640 And I do think in a lot of ways they are scrambling too. 1056 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,120 You know, like I think these are plans they've had for decades. 1057 01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,280 But I also think they've made some big mistakes. 1058 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,160 And maybe their biggest mistake was letting people like myself 1059 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,800 and yourself and and Opti and our friends, you know, get a 1060 01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,680 little scratch and put together a little some and we get to 1061 01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,680 build a little thing where we get to fight back. 1062 01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:34,240 And maybe that was their biggest mistake. 1063 01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,000 But you know it. It's only a mistake if we use it 1064 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,160 wisely. So that, that, that, I guess 1065 01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:43,200 I'll leave it on that. Opti put in the chart in in the 1066 01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,280 chat. Absolute bars, Yes, 100%. 1067 01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,600 The state was not ready for the Internet and all the things that 1068 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:53,600 came with it, even though they were responsible for developing 1069 01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:57,840 a lot of it, but they didn't, they didn't realize the 1070 01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,200 Pandora's Box that they opened the Pandora's box for freedom, 1071 01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:02,680 which I think is is a good thing. 1072 01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:07,120 Anyways, Mark Goodwin, it's been an absolute honour, an absolute 1073 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,480 pleasure to have you on simply Bitcoin IRL for the first time. 1074 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,880 Hope to see you in Nashville for the Bitcoin 2024 conference. 1075 01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,400 Really, really excited for that and I'd be an honour to have you 1076 01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,440 on again in a couple months or so. 1077 01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:22,000 So thank you Mark. Appreciate it. 1078 01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,320 Anytime, man. Thank you guys. 1079 01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:28,440 I love what you guys are doing. Stay free, do your thing and 1080 01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:32,160 definitely see you in Nashville. And yeah, check out writings at 1081 01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,400 Bitcoin Magazine. Check out the print mag, what 1082 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,480 Joe and AB does. They're just incredible. 1083 01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,240 Check out the Bitcoin dollar book. 1084 01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,960 And yeah, I guess see my Schizo posting on Twitter. 1085 01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,200 And yeah, we'll see you out there for sure. 1086 01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,120 We need you fight like hell. Appreciate it, man. 1087 01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,040 Yeah, dude. Honored to be in the trenches 1088 01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,560 with you man. This is that was that was an 1089 01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,440 incredible podcast. Incredible episode. 1090 01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,720 Highly enjoyed it. Mark dropping the hot fire. 1091 01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,120 Anyways guys, see you tomorrow for another episode of Simply 1092 01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,520 Bitcoin Live and peace out everybody. 1093 01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:04,640 Catch you guys later.