Yo, in a recent interview that I had with Samson Mao, he
predicted that we will see $1 million Bitcoin faster than most
people are expecting. And some of Samson's reasoning
for Y has to do with the recent interview of Anthony Scaramucci
where he dropped some bombshell information.
But before we get into what Scaramucci exactly said, let's
play the clip from the Samsung interview.
Let's check it out. You are saying $1 million
Bitcoin. What, what's the logic behind
that? Like what?
And and not only $1 million Bitcoin, which we all know is
going to come eventually, but $1 million Bitcoin in a very, very
short amount of time. Right.
So I think the key message I'm trying to get across is that the
macro environment has fundamentally changed.
And then I did some analysis and other people like Macronaut and
Bit Pain and others have also done the math too.
And Bitcoin going up 20X is not a difficult thing.
It's done it sometimes in the past.
So the key here is that everything is different now with
the ETFs, with the amount of money able to flow into the
Bitcoin ecosystem and we can very rapidly go up to 1,000,000.
Whether we stay there or not, it's a different question, but
just the lack of supply because we are constrained, there's
about 1.4, maybe 1.6 million BTC on exchanges right now.
That's not a lot, and at some point it's going to dry up,
especially at the rate at which the ETS are hoovering up all the
coins at the moment. I'm assuming you don't believe
in the diminishing returns. Theory, not really.
I mean, we talk often about hyper bitcoinization and if you
believe in hyper bitcoinization, then it's impossible to believe
in diminishing returns because there should be no cycles to
Bitcoin. If you're going to reach the
point of hyper bitcoinization whereby we replace all Fiat
money, then there is nothing to go back to.
So what are you measuring the returns in, right.
If the US dollar no longer exists, then how can you have
diminishing returns? So I guess there's two parts
there. 1 is will there be another cycle?
And I'm not really sure. Like just because we had three
similar looking cycles in the past does not mean that we're
always going to have this cycle, right?
Because it's like flipping a coin, you get heads three times
doesn't mean the next time it's more likely you're going to get
tails. It's a different, it's a
different equation every single time.
And the other part is, well, if Bitcoin does replace Fiat, then
there is no diminishing returns. You just Bitcoin now.
So it's not really possible to measure returns.
So I mean, there you have it from Samsung Mao himself.
I'm here joined by Chris Alamo and of course, our special guest
today, Jack from Thunder Games. Welcome, boys.
Welcome. Happy to have you guys on the
show. And look, I have more of more
from Samsung recently from the Michael Saylor 100K party.
I was there. It was absolutely awesome.
We're going to talk a little bit more about it in the culture
segment. You can drop questions in the
chat. I'll, I'll try to answer them,
but here is a more recent interview with Samson, now with
Issa Los Santos from the 100K party at Michael Saylor's house
for New Year's. Let's check it out.
Speaking of, you know, politicians and everything, do
you think Bitcoin, well, Trump would do his conquest and keep
his promise of reaching, you know, and having a Bitcoin
reserve? I think so.
It's really that they have no choice.
They have to create the Bitcoin reserve.
They need to buy Bitcoin simply because they need to shore up
the US dollar and strengthen it. And I think they view it more as
a measure to boost the dollar. But ultimately I think it ends
up killing the dollar and it. So again, a couple reasons here.
Let's unpack them. First, the ETF, right?
And then of course, the incoming Trump administration.
And they made the announcement in Nashville about potentially
introducing a Bitcoin strategic reserve.
And this started a domino effect all over the world.
We have politicians coming out of Brazil.
We have politicians coming out of Russia.
We have politicians coming out of the individual states like
the state of Pennsylvania, the state of Ohio, the state of
Texas. Of course, a lot of that works
being done by the Satoshi Action Fund and Dennis Porter.
So this talk of a strategic Bitcoin reserve is not just a
phenomenon in the United States. It's a phenomenon happening
worldwide. the United States could be the catalyst.
However, and I just want to remind everybody, the United
States is not first to do this. El Salvador already has a
reserve. In fact, when they got that loan
from the IMF, it seems like they use some of that loan money to
buy even more Bitcoin, which is absolutely badass by Naimbu
Kelly. But I know what a lot of you
guys are thinking. You know, a lot of politicians,
they talk a lot, you know, they say things, they pander to
voters. And then with it, when they get
into office, they don't really come true.
Well, here's Anthony Scaramucci essentially talking about how
Trump actually might have the votes in the legislative branch
of the United States was as the House of Representatives, as the
lower house and then the Senate, which is the upper house, he
actually might have the votes to get this bill passed.
And if you look at the Poly market ads and I like the
betting odds markets, they're a lot more accurate at predicting
events. It, it's, it's around 30-4.
It was at an all time high like 48%.
So I mean, that's pretty, pretty significant.
And I agree with with Samson, I think that if a law gets passed
and, or even if Trump does it by executive order, anything
related to Bitcoin, I would not be surprised.
And again, this is a big statement, but I would not be
surprised if we saw a half $1,000,000 Bitcoin next year.
I mean, this year it's already 2025 and the inauguration is
literally 18 days from now. So anyways, I'm going to play
you guys the clip by Anthony Scaramucci, and then we're going
to open it up to the panel and have a discussion.
Let's check it out. You think we'll get a strategic
Bitcoin reserve? You think that's?
What I do actually? What does that look like, TJ?
They've got the votes. Haggerty wants it, McCormick
wants it. They have the.
Votes in the Senate, do you think?
I think so, yeah. There's really.
I do think so. Yes, for like to to her bill to
get a million Bitcoin, right. That was her full bill, right.
So keep it to 20,000 then. This stuff gets horse traded, so
you'll you'll probably have 200 won't get sold.
They'll probably buy another 4 or 500,000 Bitcoin over the
next. Oh, you don't think this can
happen? Senator Talk.
Let me tell you why I think it will happen.
OK, Trump wants it to happen and he's got the Senate Banking
Committee. Tim Scott wants it to happen.
He's going to be the chair of the Senate Banking Committee,
but sent wants it to happen. If you're telling me there are
no Democrats, and I don't believe this because a lot of
Democrats voted for the Saab 121 bill.
If you looked at the dispersion of vote, it was a bipartisan
approval of that bill. And by the way, Ryan, it was if
you were 40 or 50, let's say you were below the age of 60, you
voted for the bill. If you were a Democrat, if you
were a fossil like Elizabeth Warren, Oregon, Sherrod Brown,
you voted against it. So if you're telling me there
are no Democrats that are going to vote for that, then I'll say,
OK, then we're not going to get it.
But I don't see that. I think Roe, Connor would vote
for it. I think there's a lot of
Democrats that look at it and say if Bitcoin is digital gold
and we have $600 billion of gold on reserve at our bank in the
Federal Reserve Bank, you're telling me we couldn't put 75 to
100? So let's summarize this is wee
bit back in because there's a lot of components here, right?
You have Samsung Mao basically saying Nico, you know what, I
think diminishing returns is BS. You have Samsung now essentially
saying, you know what? And he was saying it when
Bitcoin was at 50K bitcoins at 100K it's only or roughly 100K,
it's only at 10X to $1,000,000. Like that's not that crazy in
Bitcoin terms. But if you take into account the
approval of the spot Bitcoin ETF allowing massive institutional
inflows and then you have of course micro sailors,
MicroStrategy like a corporate, a corporate treasury strategy
being vindicated in 2024. And then of course, the United
States going in and other nation states that have the power of
money printers going in there and not only buying Bitcoin, but
also basically giving it a rubber stamp of approval saying,
you know what, this thing is legit in the eyes of countries.
You know, all the stars and planets are aligning for this
year. 2025. I have to get used to in my
head, we're already in 2025 to be a very, very explosive year
for Bitcoin. And again, like I said, if this
strategic Bitcoin reserve thing comes to fruition, I would not
be surprised whatsoever if we hit half $1,000,000 per Bitcoin
by the end of the year. We shall see. 18 days until the
inaugural. We also have to hold Trump
accountable for his promise to Bitcoiners for freeing Ross
Ulbricht. But man, it's really, really
exciting. One last thing I'll say is
historically, Bitcoin tends to have the parabola year, the year
after the halving. If you look at throughout all of
Bitcoin's history, the halving year is pretty good, but it's
the year after the halving that you get the vast majority of the
returns, and that is 2025. That is this year, so very
exciting stuff. Overall, I agree with Samsung.
I think we're going to see $1,000,000 Bitcoin a lot sooner
than people anticipated. Anyways, I want to pass it on to
my Co host today, the legendary Chris Alamo in the house.
Chris, what are your takes on Samsung?
Is he being too bullish? What's your take?
How's it going guys? How's it going, gentlemen?
Happy new year, happy 2025. Excited to be here with you guys
as always. Yeah, I think he's being a
little too bullish. I maybe, I hate to say that I'm
the bear, but I do think while we are ecstatic about the
Bitcoin reserve, you know, the Bitcoin strategic reserve, I do
think, you know, I trust Polymarket.
They were a reliable source of heading into the elections.
They kind of only give it a 30% chance of it happening.
You know, I guess we're still pre Trump taking office, but
right now they're still pricing a 30% chance that it actually
occurs. That being aside, I know Eric
Trump spoke at Bitcoin Mana and was talking about that they're
really excited to make a Bitcoin strategic reserve.
The one thing that I'll I'll caveat with Trump and his family
is their real estate guys. And while we're excited that
they're happy about Bitcoin, I wouldn't call them Bitcoin
Maxis. I mean, you've kind of seen
their, they, they've kind of dabbled in shit coins.
They have shit coins on their balance sheet with their
disclosures and stuff. And that's not anything to take
anything against for them. But I do think that let's just
play it out game theory wise, let's just say we start buying
strategic reserve. The dollar strengthens.
The dollar has already been strengthening over the last year
and a half, two years basically since the the Russia, Ukraine
conflict. It has a slight dip.
But I follow answer Lidner, avid bitcoiner and great macro
economist. He basically says that the
dollar was going to keep strengthening and a lot of
people didn't think it was going to weaken.
We were going to a recession. I don't think that's the case.
But if the dollar strengthens too much, that becomes a problem
in terms of an international stage.
What that means is basically the amount of dollars can buy more
and more goods from external nations or externally.
So that means that we can buy things and basically consume
resources of other countries. I do think that if it
strengthens too much, then the, you know, the H1B visa that's
been kind of the talk of the town that's more incentivizes
companies to look and paying people outside of the United
States. So basically, in summary, I do
think that there will have to be a relief valve and I do think
Bitcoin will be that relief valve, meaning that whether
Trump sells off or maybe even holds off buying even more than
they were planning to buy in order to allow it to to fall
down down slightly. Otherwise, if the dollar
strengthens too much, you can see a recession in the sense
that things are getting too expensive.
You know, real estate, real estate starts taking a plunge,
stock market starts taking a plunge, as we've seen in
history's past. And only Bitcoin's the first
thing to move down. It's also the first thing to
recover and move up. So I do think it is a little too
bullish right now, but I'd love to be proven.
Wrong. Absolutely.
I think it's incredible points, good points by the legendary
Chris Alamo. Of course we have our special
guest for today. We have Jack from Thunder Games
in the house. Of course, you guys know we're
big fans of Thunder games here at Simply Bitcoin.
Jack, thank you so much for joining us on the show today.
Cheers guys, happy to be here. Excited so.
Do you have any thoughts on Samsung Mao's predictions $1
million Bitcoin? Do you have any thoughts about
the the talk of the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve?
What are your takes on everything?
Yeah, I think the talk's cheap. So that's my first.
Like take away is like politicians can say whatever
they want and they'll talk more and more about something that
is, you know, like they don't have to do anything if they're
just talking about it. So I believe it when I see it.
I think you you hit the nail on the head with the first promise
was to free Ross on day one. Like then I'll start getting
excited. If some like he actually does
what he says he's going to do, then we can talk about strategic
preserve like a bit more bullishly.
But I'm confident that, you know, the game theory is going
to work out. And that's the direction that
the government's going to have to go is start back in back,
back in their governments with with Bitcoin as a savings
vehicle, because I want my government to do it like in
this. It's going to be the will of the
people eventually. Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's a good point, right?
Talk is cheap, actions are expensive.
We shall see 18 days until inauguration.
The first bit pro Bitcoin administration is going to be
sworn into office. It's going to be a historic year
for Bitcoin like last year. Last year was absolutely
historic. We we got the ETF approval.
We have Michael Saylor's vindication on the public
company front and of course the first pro Bitcoin administration
sworn into office. Let's see if they keep their
they keep their promise in freeing Ross.
We shall see. Anyways, ladies and gentlemen,
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At the time of recording, the Bitcoin price is $96,400.
Block height 877,524 SAT's per dollar 1037 market cap 1.91
trillion Bitcoin versus gold market cap 10.35% Percentage
issued 94.3% decline from all time high -10.9% Realized
monetary inflation continues to go down 1.1%.
Taking Fiat currencies to absolute schools.
Speaking of Fiat currencies, we got Opti's ex-girlfriend in the
house, Christine Lagarde. Wishing all of us a Happy New
Year. Let's check it out.
I think she does drop something about the digital euro, which I
find interesting. Let's check it out and then
we'll talk about it. You a happy New Year, happy
healthy, prosperous 2025. So we have a big heavy agenda at
the ECB. We have made significant
progress in 24 in bringing down inflation and hopefully 25 is
the year when we are on target as expected and as planned in
our strategy. Of course, we will continue our
efforts to ensure that that inflation stabilizes sustainably
at that 2% medium term target. We will also be reviewing our
monetary policy strategy. Why do we do that?
We just did that in 21. Well, we're doing it to ensure
that it still fits the changing world in which we live and that
we are fit for 25 and following. Another significant development
on the horizon is our digital euro.
We are in the preparation phase and we are expecting, we are
expecting European legislation. Once that is done, we will
decide whether we move forward with developing a digital form
of cash, your digital euro. And you know, we are also
working on banknotes. We are in the process of
redesigning our banknotes. It's a long standing exercise
that will not be completed in 25, but significant moves will
take place with the design phase.
It reflects a commitment to innovation while also preserving
the trust and security that our currency represents, both in
banknote form and in digital form.
So we have a lot on the agenda for the ECB.
And as that work begins, let me once again wish all of you from
within or of course, outside the ECBA.
Very, very great start to 25 and a happy New Year.
OK, so much to unpack. Really glad that we're covering
this. I love.
I love the live comment. Too.
I love how, you know, she starts in the beginning and she's like,
wishing you a prosperous 2025. And then we want to get back to
that 2% number. You know, right now Bitcoin's
inflation rate is 1.1%, and this is going to go down forever,
right? I think when we started covering
this, it was like 1.83. And then, of course, the halving
and, you know, Bitcoin's absolute scarcity is going to
ensure this eventually goes to 0.
And, you know, like, what is this 2% number?
They don't even have an answer for the 2% number.
And then, you know, kind of dystopian sneak it in there
because they had a marketing problem with the central bank
digital currency. People weren't receptive to
that. So they did a bait and switch
and now they're calling it the digital euro.
And, you know, we're so excited this legislation, it's going to
fix things. And it's very insidious when she
says your digital cash. Listen, anyone could make
Bitcoin. You plug in a miner, you pay for
electricity, you can make Bitcoin.
You can run Bitcoin software and have a copy of the entire
Bitcoin blockchain in your home, verify transactions.
You can take self custody of your Bitcoin.
Can you audit the ECB? No.
Can you make more EUR? No.
You go to jail for counterfeiting.
So like again, this is narrative trench warfare in the
battleground of the Internet. She's trying to mean something
into existence she's trying to play on the fact that people are
not informed on Fiat money and trying to convince you that she
is working for you that she is there to help you.
But if you look at the raw data you know and and this kind of
explains why they hate Bitcoin so much I I would too if I was a
central banker. It ends the racket.
On A5 year time scale, if you've been saving in Bitcoin, EUR have
lost 88% of their value. On a three-year time scale,
they've lost 51% of their value. On a one year time scale,
they've lost 72% of their value. Like on a monthly time scale,
they've lost 35% of their value and let's say all goods and
services because that's one of the things that central bankers
are always talking about and politicians, they're always
framing it as if, you know, like this is all for you.
We're trying to help you. We're trying to save you.
We're trying to bring everything under control.
And what bitcoiners are basically saying like, look,
dude, like, you know, you don't, we don't need you to to help us.
If you start opting out of the system today and you start
saving and earning in Bitcoin, you can start taking advantage
of a unit of account of a currency that actually values
your time and your energy and your work, right?
So a house even with housing prices, prices in the United
States doubling due to all the money printing that occurred
during the pandemic. If you've been saving a Bitcoin
on A5 year time scale, housing has gotten 90% cheaper, the
stock market 77% cheaper, gold 94% cheaper, oil 94% cheaper,
the dollar 87% cheaper and it just goes on like food.
You know, this is one of the major reasons as to why Trump
got elected. People were so frustrated with
inflation, right? On A5 year time scale,
everything has gotten cheaper compared to Bitcoin.
This is what happens when you know, you know, something has
absolute scarcity. It's Infinity divided by 21
million. So like, you know, as much as
she wants to meme this into existence that, you know, the
European Central Bank is your friend and it's a public good
and it's here to help you. I would say, you know, Bitcoin
actually has the proof of work behind it.
It actually has the results behind it.
I think they just make things work and make things worse.
And you have a choice as an individual to choose when you
don't have to wait for an election to choose which unit of
account you choose to live on. And I promise you, I promise
you, I've seen this happen so many times.
It's my ninth year in Bitcoin, OK?
Have had seen this happen so many times.
If you choose to, if you choose to move to a Bitcoin standard,
your life will get progressively cheaper over time.
The things around you, whether that's housing, whether that's
food, whether that's anything, will get progressively cheaper,
allowing you to save for the future, allowing you to plan for
the future. And that gives you back hope,
that gives you back optimism. People like Christine Lagarde,
people like the institutions like the European Central Bank,
they steal that from you through inflation, through monetary
debasement. So she can have a nice curtain
behind her. She can be dressed up very
pretty. She could put the captions on
there and basically try to connect with the younger
generations. But at the end of the day, you
know, that 2% number is 2% because it's not big enough for
people to realize that they're getting stolen from because
that's essentially what it what it is.
Every single day that Bitcoin exists, it continues to prove
that money can exist without inflation, not only can exist
without inflation, people that use the money that doesn't have
inflation actually live better lives.
So don't let them gaslight you. Get informed so that you can
spread Bitcoin. All right, I'm going to pass it
on to Chris. Chris, what are your thoughts on
Opti's ex-girlfriend, Christine Lagarde?
She's trying to spread it out there.
She's trying to get people to use this ECB, this, you know,
this, this digital euro. It's not called a central bank
digital currency anymore. You know it.
They're changing the name they're making, hoping that
people won't notice. What's your take?
No, yeah, No, I I think there was a lot in that short clip.
I mean, she says we're targeting 2% inflation.
Nico, you know, that they obviously artificially
manipulate CPI numbers to be lower.
So it looks like things aren't getting more expensive, when in
actuality, they're getting way more expensive.
When you compare it to like the Chapwood index or shadow stats
or any of the other metrics. When you like, keep their own
inflation numbers from the 70s or 80s, things are way worse.
And those were their own numbers back then, but they adjusted
instead of getting, you know, the great replace it with
chicken instead of chicken. You get like they're always
adjusting it. So they're saying she's
basically saying we're targeting 2% of theft of you and your
family and your loved ones if you don't save in Bitcoin.
And that's only we're targeting it.
If it's higher, they don't care. They'll lie and gaslight you
into saying, oh, we didn't steal as much or hey, inflation's
actually gone down yet. Maybe the inflation change has
gone down, but it's still compounds on itself.
You know, if last year was 7% inflation and this year's only
2% inflation, it's not just a nine percent increase, it's a
not a 2% increase on the adjusted increase of of 7%.
So it's even worse. It compounds with inflation,
which is horrible. The digital euro there, there's
nothing to add there. It's basically just the CBDC.
They want to get rid of cash and they want to pigeonhole you into
their own central bank digital currency.
And then the irony at the very end, she's like, yeah, we're
trying to make it even more like trust us even more and like
guarantee you more trust than privacy.
It's like we don't trust you. You're inflating our dollars
away, our Fiat currencies away. You're lying to us.
You're gaslighting us. You're not trying to make it
more private with the CBD. And she was even like, oh, we're
trying to insecure security for who?
For us or for them. So it's all control game.
They're trying to pitch, you know, their own products for
their own benefit and their benefactors and friends. 100
percent, 100%. I think you hit the nail on the
head, guys. We're at 171 likes.
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Jack, what's your take? You know, on Christine Lagarde,
wishing everybody such a you know, she, she cares about you.
She, she really wants to wish you a happy new year.
She's there to serve you. The euro is there to serve you.
It's there to make your life better.
Jack, what's your take? OK.
Yeah, My take is slightly different is that I never see
those things as like competitive to Bitcoin because of the
obvious reasons. But really there's like an arms
race for who's going to who's digital currency, what
countries. Digital currency will be the
most like widely used, the most popular, because if your country
can control the digital space with your own currency, you can
export your inflation to other countries and other people
around the world. So that's the game they're
playing. And I think that America needs
to it's almost like America have to do exactly the same.
Otherwise they're tool of exporting inflation from the US
dollar is going to be eroded away as well.
So I think there's going to be a massive boom in in it.
And the fact that the EU are so they're actually the one
continent or group of countries that are actually ahead in
trying to steal this kind of like space, I think.
So I'm kind of worried I'm from, I'll be worried about it from an
American perspective, if I was an American, but I'm not worried
about it from I'm from Britain. So I'm not.
We have no, our currency is not used to be the, the currency
used around the world. And we were playing this game of
exporting inflation around the world and then we lost that.
America now has it. And perhaps Europe has finally
found a way to make their currency useful to them.
So you said that Americans should be worried.
How so? How?
Why should? 50 years like on a, on a big
time frame because, you know, the whole world uses the US
dollar as like the reserve currency.
And if someone in some countries using their dollars to save them
that money, then if the US government prints more money to
give to their own citizens, they're basically taxing.
They're taxing all these other people around the world.
And that is what the UK did, I don't know, 2400 years ago.
I'm not very good at history. And if whoever has the digital
currency that the world uses, the most world uses, can like
inflate their own currency, like you said.
And America should want to keep that as the number one currency
to export inflation from, in my opinion.
Yeah, I mean, I, I agree. I, I agree.
I, I think. But you know, what I, what I
would say is like the Samsung, you know, point was really,
really, excuse me, was really, really interesting because, you
know, he's basically making the case that by the virtue of, of
the United States adopting Bitcoin, it actually
strengthens, it strengthens the dollar.
And I don't see how a digital euro like, I, I feel like a
digital euro is, is just a step in the right, like step in the
wrong direction. And I think a lot of people are
just not, if you, you see this like, for example, like in, in
Nigeria, they rolled out the, a digital, the digital CBDC
equivalent of their Fiat currency is called the Naira.
And you know, adoption was, was like people did just didn't want
it, right. I, I see CBD CS as like, you
know, it's, it's, it's a, it's something that's trying to solve
a problem that doesn't need to be fixed.
It's kind of like a justification by central bankers
to, you know, justification and an attempt by central bankers
for them to maintain their control, monopoly over money.
I don't see how it particularly would help the European Union
going down this path. I would say that what would help
the European Union, specifically their citizens would be adopting
a Bitcoin standard and actually giving their citizens more
freedom to choose the currency they want to use, rather than
this bureaucracy in Brussels that's essentially dictating the
lives of, you know, millions of millions of, of, of Europeans
like that. That's my perspective.
Maybe, you know, I'm I'm I'm too American.
And you know, governments are the most evil corporation that
exist. They must have killed millions
and millions of people at this point.
The the government as if you think of it as a business.
And they're like just so evil. So just assume they're going to
do the most evilest thing, which is try to get everyone to use
their currency so they can inflate it.
And you don't, you don't have to limit it to your own country.
You've got to try and get it, export that product to everyone
else. And I think the, the Bitcoin
reserve is decoupled from that. So America are doing that with
the dollar and they want to keep that and they want everything
priced in the dollar. And then they use the use big
use Bitcoin as a way to like, say, oh, you know, like the
dollar is strong because we've got the military.
The dollar is strong because we've got all of this Bitcoin.
So maybe that's what Europe needs to do as well is back up
their their economy with good assets like gold, Bitcoin,
whatever to give military and then they'll have a chance.
But if, if they whoever get like you can see the stable coins are
like the number one use case in the moment and for better or
worse, that like whoever could like tether, they're like
absolutely insanely, like probably could buy America or at
this point, like they're huge. And if my government was just
had that business, then I don't. To be honest.
I don't know what your opinion is, but why hasn't it happened
soon though? It seems like such an obvious
what's taking them so long to build it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you.
I think you make some really, really good points.
Guys. We're going to hit the news.
We're going to, we're going to talk about the, we were talking
about this last, last week, essentially how the IRS wanted
to introduce these reporting requirements for Bitcoin and the
deadline was December 31st. Well, some news broke today on
January 2nd that they actually postponed, you know, those new
reporting requirements. Again, total coincidence, two
days after the supposed December 31st deadline.
So, you know, I find that interesting.
And again, I don't think that all of this is happening
coincidentally. I think that this is happening
because elections have consequences and we know how the
incoming Trump administration supposedly feels about the
industry. Again, Inauguration Day is
coming up, January 18th, historic moment in Bitcoin's
history. The first pro Bitcoin
administration is going to be sworn into office.
We also, we also might have special content for you guys in
regards to some special interviews with some people in
Washington DC and I think I will be in DC for the inauguration.
So looking forward to that as well.
Hopefully we can get you guys some on the ground footage of
that historic day. All right, everybody, we're
going to get to the news. We have tons to talk about.
Stay tuned. And then during the culture
segment, we're going to talk about Thunder games and we're
also going to do a little bit of a recap of the Michael Saylor
100K party. I was there.
You guys just drop any questions in the live chat.
I'll make sure to answer some of them if you guys have any
curiosities about what was happening about.
What was it like on the floor? But stay tuned guys, we'll be
right back. We're going to hit the news.
I want to give a very special shout out to our sponsor,
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remember, not your keys, not your cheese.
You want to take self custody of your Bitcoin.
If it's not in self custody, then it's really not your
Bitcoin. Anyways, let's get to today's
news. We have lots to talk about.
So last week we covered the IRS reporting requirements.
So essentially what that was was was they were changing some of
the ways that you were reporting and what they were recommending
was taking screenshots of your wallets, taking screenshots of
your balances, taking screenshots of your exchange
balances and all this, you know. Paperwork that I think that the
vast majority of people did not have the expertise and it was
really, really scary. Also the FinCEN was requiring
small businesses to register with them, right?
Luckily, both those things, the FinCEN ruling right now is in
limbo. It's still in the apparently a
lower court put a stop to that. Yeah.
The the the 5th Circuit of appeals it's currently in right
now for the reporting requirement for small businesses
and LLCS. Appreciate it.
And again, you know, I, I'm going to you, I'm going to
borrow Elon's, you know what he's been saying these last
couple weeks on X. Do we live in a democracy or do
we live in a bureaucracy? You know, is, is this really
helping everyday Americans if people, perhaps people don't
know this about the economy, but the economy is run by small
businesses. Yes, the big businesses, you
know, they contribute a lot, but the, the bulk of the economy are
small businesses. And if you overburden them with
requirements, with bureaucracy, with paperwork, it takes time
away from them to focus on their business, to focus on
bureaucratic paperwork, right? And it makes the economy less
efficient. I I believe part of the victory
of Donald Trump comes down to this.
I think we have an overburdening bureaucracy in the United
States. Some people call it the deep
state. I call it the administrative
state. I don't think it's this grand
conspiracy. It just, it just boils down to
this. The money printer inevitably
makes government bigger. It makes bureaucracy bigger.
And because government is nonproductive by nature, the
only way the a government can raise revenue is through
taxation. And they tax through a very
different two different two different ways.
Primarily number one is income tax, direct taxation.
That's not enough. the US government spend $1.7 trillion
more than it collected in tax revenue in 2023.
And #2 is taxation via monetary debasement, taxation via
debasement. So again, you know, the question
I believe isn't what is money, the question is what is
government. So, but now I'm going to weave
it back into this specifically, you know, the fin cen bit small
business registration requirement.
Chris gave you a little bit of an update on this.
And then as it relates to Bitcoin, this was crazy.
This was nuts. Essentially, you had a deadline
until December 31st to, you know, to get all your paperwork
in order. They were requesting people take
screenshots of their wallet balances, of their addresses, of
their exchange balances. Like, let's, let's throw privacy
completely out the window. You know, you had to do all of
that to make sure that you were compliant.
And then coincidentally, they delay the ruling two days after
the reporting requirement. That's a total coincidence, I
might add. And again, I don't think they
would have delayed anything if it wasn't for the incoming
administration that is going to be sworn in January 20th of
2025. We hit, we hear Trump talking
about how he doesn't believe it's fair.
There's a truth post on truth Truth Social post on this.
He doesn't make it doesn't make sense to him that you have to
pay capital gains tax on Bitcoin because Bitcoin is money, right?
But again, he's not in office yet.
They're not in power. Trump is not in control of the
executive branch until January 20th.
So these shenanigans that they're doing right up until the
day that he gets inaugurated is absolutely hilarious.
I mean, this is this is Lawfare, this is political games.
And another thing too, before I pass it on to Chris and we'll
read some of the article, is Gary Gensler isn't resigning
until the day of the inauguration, which I think is
very symbolic. Anyways, Chris, do you want to
add to any of this before we check out the article?
Yeah, Yeah, definitely. I mean, obviously I, I think
this ruling actually passed back in August, but it was very
quiet. It was end of August, You know,
it was kind of the summertime was coming to a close.
I think it was prior to the September like Congress getting
together, but it kind of slipped under the radar.
And then within the last two to three weeks, everyone was like,
holy shit, we have until December 31st to do this whole
time stamping thing for our wallets.
They were basically changing from a universal cost basis to a
per wallet method. So then even a lot of people
that were looking into this, it's like, yo, you should
probably consolidate even wallets and stuff.
And you know that like it's, it's kind of one of those things
that's like, you know, take a breath and don't do things very
quickly. But a lot of people are kind of
panicked and like you were saying, they're like using
timestamps and taking screenshots and all these
different things. And then they were recommending,
like a lot of influencers were recommending consolidating your
wallets. But that's a as people in the
Bitcoin space know, that's like a huge doxing of your privacy.
If you're consolidating UTXOSA, lot of times you're showing how
much Bitcoin you have to previous people that were
sending you money. So I think this is a whole
clusterfuck, to say the least. And, you know, I'm glad that
it's being pushed back. I hope that Trump's
administration comes in and just kind of like gets rid of this
all together. I don't think that's going to
happen. But you know, I'll, I'll be
hopeful for it. Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's a very, very, very good summary.
And and again, like it, it was insane.
Like it was borderline, I called it last week, I said this is
borderline tyrannical, like the a bit small business
registration FinCEN and then the you know, this, this reporting
requirement. Mind you, this is coming from a
government. The Pentagon has failed 7 audits
in a row and they have 60% of their total assets or budget
completely unaccounted for. If you did that as a private
citizen, you'd go to jail, right?
And they just say no, we're going to do better next time.
Like again, the problem isn't the rules, the problem is the
double standard Problem is that the politicians that expect us
peasants I guess, to follow these rules, they don't follow
it. They don't follow them
themselves. And again, that's not a
government by the people for the people.
That's a government by the government for the government.
And my theory of the cases is as as much as I like Elon with the
whole doge thing and Vivac with the, you know, government
efficiency and like whatever, it doesn't solve the root problem.
And the root problem is the fact that the government has the
ability to create money out of thin air, which they use to fund
themselves. Then politicians use to fund
crazy ideas. I would even make, I would even
make the case that this is what politicians use to fund war too,
right? This is a very, very deep rabbit
hole. But anyway, so let's get to some
of the details. IRS delays Bitcoin cost basis
reporting rules until 2026 The IRS The IRS announced that it
has delayed new Bitcoin tax reporting rules until early
2026. The extension provides brokers
with additional time to adjust the cost basis regulations for
centralized platforms. The IRS has provided a temporary
break for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency investors by
delaying new reporting rules that would have required a
default accounting method for trades on centralized exchanges.
The Treasury Department and the IRS understand that some digital
asset brokers may not have in place by January 1st, 2025 the
technology needed to accept specific instructions or
standing orders communicated by taxpayers.
These technology limitations may leave some taxpayers unable to
make adequate identifications in conformity with like just a
bunch of number regulation. Whatever.
In July, the IRS and Treasury Department introduced rules to
determine which cryptocurrency units are sold in brokerage
accounts using wallet by wallet accounting.
If no accounting method is chosen, the first in first out
method will apply, selling the earliest acquired assets first,
which may lead to higher taxable gains during market upswings.
The extension will be in effect until December 31st, 2025,
giving brokers more time to adapt to different accounting
methods. During the relief period,
taxpayers can use methods like highest in, first out or
specific identification to choose assets to sell and
enhancing flexibility and potentially reducing tax impact.
So again, listen, I'm calling BS here.
I scrambled to like again, the, the I scramble to get compliant.
I make sure to get like my, my accountant, like dude, what's
going on here? You know, because at the end of
the day, like, like guys like if you don't do your taxes, like
bad things happen, you know, like bad things happen from a
legal perspective. Like, you know, you could see
this with the case of Roger Ver. You could see this with the case
of John McAfee. Like, you know, and they will
make an example out of you specifically too, if you work in
the Bitcoin industry, right? So it's like you obviously you
want to stay, you want to do it. Do I agree with it?
No. I think the American public was
psyopped into central banking in 1913, which coincidentally
another coincidence was the first year that they introduced
the income tax. I think eventually
democratically and through the legislative process, a lot of
this stuff will get repealed or taxation will get to a point
where it kind of makes sense. I think the current like method
of taxation, I think is completely unreasonable.
And again, it's not like they are fiscally responsible
themselves, right? It's like they're sending
billions of dollars to fund wars that you might not necessarily
agree with. Not only that, they're spending
money they don't have by debasing the currency.
So it's like you have to pay taxes on everything.
It's absolutely insane. And they're not even using that
money to better the country. They're using, they're you're
using that money and they're squandering it, right.
So, but again, you know, I find it hilarious that you know,
they, they, they scared the living bejeebas out of everybody
two or three weeks before the end of the year, basically
saying you got to kick compliant, you got to make sure
you're organized. And then two days after the
so-called deadline, they're like, oh, no, you know what?
Actually, we're going to delay it another year.
They did that on purpose. That was 100% on purpose, I have
no doubt in my mind. And I also think they're taking
advantage of the fact that they're still technically in
power for 18 days. The current administration, and
we know how the current administration feels about the
Bitcoin industry. So yeah, those are my thoughts
on that. Chris, what are your thoughts?
Like it's just like, dude, it, it, it, this is crazy, man.
This is, this is, this is nuts. It, it feels like a mafia, like,
I don't know how to say. Like I feel like I'm like, you
know, like it's like, like if you don't do this, like they're
going to lock you in a box. Like that's what it feels like,
you know? And then they make examples out
of people that, you know, work on our industry.
Like, dude, it's, it's, it's kind of scary bro, not not going
to lie. Yeah, definitely.
You know, I'll speak for myself like I thought this is a load of
crap. I didn't waste my time doing all
this stuff because I was like, I, I think it's
unconstitutional. And if it comes to it, I'd
rather fight it in the courts than comply with the stupid
crap. Not saying I don't pay my taxes.
I do. I'm a law abiding citizen in all
regards, But it also just shows their complete disregard and
complete lack of understanding how Bitcoin works.
They're like they're saying, I mean, Nico, you said in the,
the, the broadcast, the beginning, this is your 9th year
in Bitcoin and they're saying, oh, you have to pay based on the
taxes of the very first Bitcoin you bought 9 years ago.
And you know, we can look at the charts.
That's a crazy astronomical difference.
But Bitcoin's on a UTXO based accounting model, meaning that,
you know, when you buy a UTXO right now, if I buy Bitcoin, I'm
buying it at, you know, the price is, let's just say $95,000
right now. But then they're saying, oh, if
I were to sell that same lot or that UTXO that I'd have to do
the cost basis of whenever you got into Bitcoin, that's a load
of crap. That's not how that works.
Imagine I'm telling you, Nico, and every, the thing that drives
me insane is the IRS wants to call it, you know, property.
You know, the CFTC wants to call it a commodity.
The SEC wants to call these things securities or like
whatever they want to all have their own definition so they can
tax you or fine you or track you in whatever way they won't want.
Well, so OK, let's go with the FBI or not the FBI.
The IRS is a definition of Bitcoin being a real estate like
that. That's the way they define it.
So does that mean that if you're a real estate investor, that if
you sell a property that you got last, you have 50 properties?
We're making up this fictitious example.
That means that if I sell my 50th property, that I have to
get taxed on the basis of the first property I bought?
No, that's asinine. It doesn't make any sense.
It's stupid, and they're just trying to put their claws and
teeth into the industry and hamper it.
That doesn't even that's completely disregarding the
compliance requirement. I mean, let's look at those
realistically. OK, so you have to hire someone
that's a a lawyer that's went to law school to like read through
these regulations. Let's just assume on a safe side
that's 150 to $200,000. That doesn't even include any of
the mechanisms, the brokerages, the exchanges, Bitcoin, Wells,
Swan River Cash app strike any of these.
You know, it basically makes it that only the coin bases can
afford to do compliance regulatory like that.
So then you're further consolidating it.
I mean, the the ETFs are an issue by themselves because
basically Coinbase is the broker dealer or, or the authorized
participant for the majority of the ETFs.
I know there are a few that have broken away, but I guess I'll
end my rent there. That like, they're just trying
to put their claws in the industry.
They're trying to pick winners and losers.
They're trying to dox your privacy, and they're trying to
make it harder for people to use Bitcoin in a peer-to-peer
manner, like. 100% I think I think that the the last point
you're you're 100% spot on it. I think this comes down to their
heart. They're making it harder for
they want to make it harder for people to use peer-to-peer
because they know that their existing system, it's going to
be very difficult, man. It's going to be very difficult.
And like, and I'm seeing this and, and I'm just like
incentivize, like, dude, I'm just going to hold.
Like, I'm just going to hold. Like, why am I like, this is a
nightmare. This is crazy.
So it's like, not only do you work and you know, you have to
get up every morning, you have to provide for your family, but
you know, you have to dedicate a big percentage, especially if
you have a business, if you, you know, if you employ people, you
know, if you have investments, like you have to like
essentially invest time and money into just paying your
taxes. And they still might be wrong,
right? Like it's, it's, it's, it's a,
it's, it's crazy. It's, it's, it's really, really
insane. And specifically, now that
there's jurisdictions like Dubai, you know, there's there's
a specific one in the United States where there's
jurisdictions where you can go there and you can live there a
percentage of the year there and you don't pay any taxes at all,
right? And I'm hearing from friends,
I'm not going to name any specific ones, but they're
friends of mine that have given up their citizenship altogether
and have chosen just to leave, right?
So this is insane, man. This is crazy.
This wasn't what the United States would like.
I saw a meme the other day which was like like the founding
fathers revolt revolted over a 3% like tax T tax and like here
we are like the highest tax brackets like 40% if you live in
California it's like 55. It's insane.
Anyways, Jack what? What's your take on all this,
brother? Yeah, so we, yeah, I, I, I have
to do like the accounting for Thunder games and it's almost
like a massive, you know, we did like 4 million transactions one
year. So I was like, couldn't even fit
it on a spreadsheet. You know, it's a field special
software just to calculate all this stuff because it's not just
the price you bought it at, it's the price you dispose of it.
So we had like 4 million disposal.
So it was a nightmare. But yeah, I think in the UK we
have different, slightly different rules, which kind of
makes it a little bit easier. We have shared pool accounting
where you don't have to go back to like the UTXO of whatever,
dispose of that one. It's like whatever, it's just
all in one pole and it just has an average price and we have our
capital gains tax works that you get like 3000 is tax free.
So for day-to-day like Bitcoin usage, you don't really have to
keep track of it because it's just not going to be made that
33000. So we have slightly different
rules and maybe so like I don't even like our ones.
They sound slightly simpler, but it's just a nightmare.
It should just have no tax, just for simplicity's sake and so we
don't have to pay tax. But that's my take.
Yeah, I'll add one thing to that you said Jack, though.
That's insane that you had 4 million transactions just to
give people a concept like Microsoft Excel might be one of
the greatest programs ever made. You know, whatever you say about
Microsoft, they're a shitty company overall, but their
product of Excel is probably one of the best that's ever made.
It just has over about 1,000,000 rows that you can have in a
single document without like, you know, doing something
special or creating special software.
I think Google Sheets is 1000, maybe 100,000.
So props to you guys for basically doing 4X what a normal
Excel sheet can fit for transactions.
Yeah, it's a bit of a yeah, it's, you know, people don't
really see that like they're right.
And that that that article that the technology doesn't exist to
even do some, some of these like things because we had to build
our own stuff. Like imagine if you know you
didn't have a developer team to to build special tools to do
your own accounting as a nightmare.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. All right, ladies and gentlemen,
stay tuned. We're going to talk about a lot
of things. We're going to talk about
Thunder games. We're going to talk about the
Sailor 100K party. If you guys, you guys have any
questions about the party, drop it in the chat.
I'll make sure to answer some of them.
So stay tuned. We are about to hit the culture
segment. We will be right back.
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All right, everybody, I do want to open up the conversation to,
you know, some let's do a little bit of a recap of.
Of the sailor 100K party have some footage of it.
Our friends over at Bitcoin magazine and my sister of Zemo
media put together an amazing production covering the event,
doing drone shots and everything.
So I have a have some video of you guys for I have some video
of it for you guys. I'll, I'll Fast forward it.
We can have that in the background playing while we talk
about it. But yeah, it was absolutely
awesome. Sailor had his entire Miami
estate decked out. He had, you know, he had a dance
floor, he had the pools open, he had food, he had his yacht open
at the end. It was a it was a great party.
He had dancers, acrobatic dancers, he had a red carpet.
You know, it was an absolutely phenomenal event.
Also, you know, he had the podcasting station open, he had
some of the biggest Bitcoin Youtubers and and content
creators. I was there on the desk as well
with Russo and Alan of BT of Bitcoin Magazine.
So it was a, it was a wonderful there.
It was a great event. And yeah, it was, it was a great
time. So that's why I was not
available for the last two days. Opti was holding it down.
But no, we didn't hit 100K. You know, we didn't hit 100K
during the party. Anyways, I heard we are close to
we are close to 300 K 300 likes on YouTube.
So if you guys are enjoying the show so far, make sure to smash
that like button. But yes, this is where I've been
the last two days. I've been recovering and and
going to the sailor party. I want to talk about what our
guests why our guest is here today Thunder games Thunder
games is when Bitcoin by playing games.
You could download a lot of these on the App Store like
clinch like tetro tiles club Bitcoin solitaire bounce along
with blockchain. The blockchain classic snake.
Can you reach 100 miles an hour and Bitcoin bubble shooter so
Jack can you give a little bit of a like of a of a low down.
What is Thunder games? That sounds way too good to be
true. You know what do you mean?
Like you can What do you mean you can earn Bitcoin playing
games that That sounds way too good to be true?
What's going on there? Yeah.
So we've got a couple of as you, you point out few categories of
games there. The the main way that you can
earn Bitcoin in our games is we have competitions that free to
enter and prize draws and different tournaments.
So we have a lot of different games like classic solitaire
games or arcade games like racing games.
And basically just by playing the game, you get automatically
entered into a tournament and then depending on how good you
are at the game is how many sats you win.
So everyone always wins at least one SAT entering the tournament.
So everyone wins and yeah, you can just pick a game that you
enjoy and play and earn some Sats.
And then we have different versions of our games which are
skill based wagering games. So after you've earned a few
sacks inside the solitaire game, you can take those and use them
to compete against other people. So you can put your own sacks on
the line and try and win even more sacks if you're brave
enough. So yeah, that's kind of the long
and short bit. That's awesome and and that's
really cool. And and again, like what, how
does it work for you guys? Like it feels like you guys are
just giving up Bitcoin for people to play games.
Like how does that make sense? Yeah.
So that is what we're doing. So we have some partners and we
have advertisers. And So what we do is we share
some of those advertising revenues with the users.
So during the gameplay, you will see, you know, banner ads, just
the normal advertisements you would see in any normal mobile
game. So we share those back with the
users and we also have partners who are like Bitcoin wallets.
So we've worked with Cash App, Speed, Zebedee, Wallace, Toshi
in the past pouch and we try to on board people and teach them
how to use their get their first Bitcoin wallet.
So you can imagine someone who's new to Bitcoin, they come to the
game, they win some Bitcoin and then they need to learn how to
cash it out from our game. So then we onboard them to their
first Bitcoin wallet, which is nearly always a Lightning
wallet. And when we onboard those users,
we that is like an advertising placement.
So we get Commission for that and we obviously give that back
to the users in the tournaments as well.
That's awesome, dude. That's that's pretty cool.
And again, it's, it sounds like aligned incentives, right?
Like you guys benefit from it, but also your users a lot a
benefit from it too. I'm assuming the payouts are
enlightening. Could you talk a little bit
about that? Yeah.
So the payouts are all in Lightning.
That's why I alluded to earlier in the show.
We had like 4 million transactions a year or
something. It might be more of, to be
honest, once you got to the first million, I stopped
counting. But yeah, it's millions.
And yeah, but essentially you can cash out as little as Van
Satoshi, which wasn't possible before with any other types of
Fiat payment in rewarded games. You know, used to have like a
PayPal cash apps in some games and that you'd have to get to
like $5 before you could even withdraw, which would take like
six months of playing, which no one would do.
So it was not a very good solution.
So Bitcoin's great because, well, specifically over the
learning Network, we can cash out once Toshi at a time, so
people can literally download the game and within like 15
minutes win some Bitcoin and then just withdraw it.
Absolutely I mean dude, that that is awesome get playing
games. I mean literally getting paid to
play games like that is incredible.
That is that is that is really cool.
Chris, do you have any questions for Jack?
Well, let's take advantage of him while he's here.
While he's. Yeah, Jack, I was going to ask.
So I mean, obviously many Bitcoiners or you know, I'll
lump myself in with that, have probably heard of Thunder games
or they're like, oh, that's so cool playing games for earning
sats. But I'm assuming like the vast
majority of the people that download your games are just
casual gamers and they've not really heard about Bitcoin or
maybe you've heard about Bitcoin but don't know how it works.
So how's the onboarding or how do you get what's the feedback
back from people that are may not be quintessential Bitcoiners
or Bitcoin? Maxis, yeah, I think they love
it. Is the like we'll start with the
bottom line up front. They love it it's so easy,
especially with like the lightning address that does make
it a lot easier. They just like being able to
cash out immediately. We have about Desiree my Co
founder who knows the numbers at the top of her head, but I think
it's about 80% of users who download our games need don't
have Bitcoin wallet so they have to download 1.
So we are on boarding quite a lot of people and it's about 40%
of those people who download then go on to actually win some
Satoshi's and cash out. So everyday we're, we have like
a North Star metric, which is like how many new Bitcoiners
we've minted. So that was kind of like a
internal goal is like just give as many people Bitcoin as
possible. And I did see someone on your
chat say that thanked me for giving him his first Bitcoin.
I'm pleased that I saw that. What do you mean someone earned
a whole Bitcoin? I was like, damn, what game is
he playing? I'm in the wrong career, bro,
God damn. But but yeah, no, that's that's
incredible. That's really awesome guys.
You can go to Thunder dot GG for audio listeners.
It's spelled THNDR dot GG to visit Thunder games today.
You'll see all the different games and the different
platforms it's for. So some games are for iOS, some
games are for Android, some games are for both.
You can check out all the games there and literally get played
in Bitcoin to play games. It's an actual thing.
It's real. It's really, really cool.
So go check out Thunder games today and I want to thank I want
to thank everyone for tuning in today.
Almost 3000 live viewers across all platforms.
You reach 320 likes on YouTube alone.
We appreciate you all. Thank you guys so much for
tuning in. This is January 22nd, 2024.
I'm your host Nico Moran. It's my legendary Co host Chris
Alamo and our special guest for today, Jack from Thunder games.
Again, go visit Thunder games at THNDR dot DG Thunder dot GG.
Alright everybody smash the like button.
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