Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of
Simply Bitcoin IRL. Today, I have a very special
guest, really been looking forward to this, as a fellow
content. Creator parties Marty's a
legend, Man. Marty, started.
It all big inspiration to me, to me personally.
So very humbled to have him on the show today.
But before we jump in, I want to give a quick shout-out to the
company that powers the show. Shoutout to Swan Bitcoin best
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Visit Swan Bitcoin.com today. It was I want to bring Marty
onstage. Marty happy to have you, man.
The kind words? Yeah, I think you were, you
know, you were one of the, one of the basically Pioneers really
because really, before the 2017 2018, 18 era, Bitcoin content
was extremely, spares on the interwebs.
Yeah, we have to give a shout out to Vortex, Jimmy song and
others who held down. Who held down the fort at the
Bitcoin show? Everyone their network is called
that. Yeah, that was the only, at
least, to show that that I wash the most every Sunday.
It's Bitcoin, do show and yeah, it was We are getting into the
content game of the beginning Bitcoin Focus but it's a lot of
fun at the last five from the six years that I've been doing
now. So a lot of things have changed
for. Sure.
At least specifically during the last bull market.
It's almost as if a lot of it got professionalized, you know,
the increase in production quality, that's for sure.
So what was that? Like, you know, because I feel
like in the beginning it was a lot like morgue.
Guns. Oh it's just like, you know
let's just spin it up and talk about Bitcoin.
Let's see where this conversation leads us.
Now you have these Productions, all the bells, and whistles, and
all that stuff. So how is that like from your
perspective? From my perspective, I feel like
we're still lagging behind the higher-end Production shows but
no it's been great to see. I've always been Advocate the
more content the better, the more people out there producing
content around Bitcoin, educating people about the coin,
the better each individual has a different way of coming to an
understanding, a bit Coy and relating to different producing
content, producers with different ways of expressing
ideas. And so I think overall, it's
been incredible to watch and extremely happy that's
happening. And it shows that there are a
lot of people dedicated to making sure that the rest of the
world understands Bitcoin. And yeah, I've been better
production, which is better for everybody at the end of the day.
Absolutely. So, one of the things I've
noticed already, you know, specifically as time progressed
right. And I think that all Bitcoin
content creators like they kind of start in this is going to be
a zombie attack. Podcast and be about Bitcoin and
then slowly but surely you slowly start to seep into Elite
before. You know it you start to talk
about more macro World issues because you understand or at
least maybe I'm talking about myself personally where you
realize how much of a difference Bitcoin is going to make to the
world and not talking about greater issues other than
Bitcoin kind of finds you in a space and then you develop as a
content creator, right? Initially it was like knows
we're here to talk about Bitcoin and then you're like and then
you start talking about all the things that Fiat money has
broken and it in of itself. And there's just so many topics
to talk about and then, you know, before, you know, it
you're talking to, you know, other people that completely,
perhaps, they're not even involved in Bitcoin yet, but
you're looking at them just like, you know what you're
talking about Bitcoin. Fixes that.
So, you know, perhaps I'm talking about my own experience
as a content, creator. But have you seen that as well?
Do you have you seen yourself branching out into other subject
matters that perhaps aren't necessarily really Bitcoin
Centric or Bitcoin related? Yes.
Certainly I mean so I have a in economics background and work at
a hedge fund for a couple of years out of college.
I was always enamored with this macro economics and talking
about those topics. So we started incorporating as
early on because obviously, good coin, as a potential new surpr
of the reserve currency of the world, sort of fits into that
macro picture but More and more throughout the years, it's
combination of recognizing that these things are tangentially
related to bitcoin. And just being as an individual
running the scratch in a church curiosity.
But energy has been a big topic on the show for many years and
that started after I jumped down the bonding Rabbit Hole.
Working at Great American binding and started to become
more familiar with the energy sector and help it coin was
getting integrated into it and How it has its own Fiat
problems, particularly with subsidies.
And this weird ESG narrative kind of popped up over the last
five years and then obviously we've done a lot of content with
ranchers and farmers and Texas swing at the the beef initiative
to highlight that sort of the parallel economy that is very
similar. R.
To Bitcoin in the sentence Grassroots and it is a stronger
system that that's sufficiently distributed geographically.
Then either? Personal pitch that I've been
scratching is more taboo topics, like be having Whitney went on
to talk about everything, going on behind the scenes with
intelligence agencies and/or, economic for these demons that
exist out there. And then as covid, lockdowns and
the vaccine rollout happened, Once again, individually curious
about exploring those topics in a way in which the mainstream
media and refused to, and so, I decided to bring people on to
talk about those topics as well because nobody in the mainstream
is talking about it. So, yeah.
TFT see, the interview Series has evolved over the years.
I like to think we always had like a half, technical half
macro view on bitcoin. to start but as a codon remaining whole
Rabbit Hole, energy came or became more of a prominent topic
on the show and the The Marty Jones and they just felt
compelled to dive into the more taboo topics as well.
It's interesting. Because so you call yourself
Marty Jones, my audience calls me, Nico, Jones.
We, we, we definitely get into those topics a lot.
The way we have different vocabulary for them.
My producer who's in the back right now?
No, he calls them, the the high-level parasites.
I called them the Demons. That's my personal favorite.
But yeah, I mean, how could you not cover those topics
specifically? Because like the way that I view
this Marty is like this really is kind of like a peaceful
Revolution and you're looking at this, you know, what the world
economic Forum really is? Like, if you have the Bitcoin
conference, the world economic forum is like the container
Conference of, you know, this party of all where all the
central planners hang out and they try to you No Central plan
to put it very, very gently and nicely.
How could you not talk about those topics?
And then I think the importance of the rise of Citizen
journalism where individuals like you and I the internet has
empowered us and has given us the ability to communicate
directly to an audience. With in also gives us the
ability to circumvent the leg. Gatekeepers of information right
away that, you know, traditional media companies that are
supposed to be doing the job that just individuals have just
been been doing for them. And I think it's just because
they've just been bought by special interests.
How could you not talk about those topics?
Because if not us, then who write it, if there is no one
that's willing to, at least provide a counter narrative to
all the BS that they're spouting about El Salvador and, you know,
you mentioned The pandemic and all the things that YouTube
doesn't like we talked about who else is going to talk about
that, right? So in essence, in a way, I feel
like it is it is, it is a responsibility for ethical
content creators to bring up those topics.
Talk about those topics because other than maybe Tucker, right?
They're not really brought up like, it's never.
It's not talked about often. It's almost like it's, you know,
swept under the rug. And I don't know if You feel
about this way Marty, but a lot of things that have happened in
the last two years, man. They're serious crimes against
humanity, dude. Like there was a lot of evil,
there was a lot of wrongdoing that has happened.
That I think that these people are just pretending and hoping
that this just goes away. So yeah, I don't know what your
take is on that. I completely agree.
I think it's ludicrous that were not allowed to openly talk about
this stuff without fear of Retribution from YouTube,
specifically, Twitter's got there.
But YouTube, I'm currently still in YouTube time out from the
last strike I got for talking about the vaccine and the
adverse effects that it has caused many people.
But yeah, in terms of like sort of in the hole, Like citizen
journalism thing. I don't view myself as a citizen
journalist. Like, I've always, I mean, some
people will say that when I approach like the FTC and the
newsletter specifically, yeah. Maybe Rabbit Hole recap, it's a
weekly new show where we try to like, Journal everything that
went on, but it comes to like the bent cftc.
I see it as more like a cathartic release, just to get
the crazy thoughts, in my mind on the paper and then out to the
world not necessarily to Maybe there is a point of trying to
educate people about this stuff but more importantly to me, I
viewed as a way to delay, let other people know.
Like, you're not the only one thinking this stuff like there
are others like us out there and then just because again, I'm not
a journalist, I'm not doing in-depth research or actually
going out and hitting the streets.
To like Whitney web is for example.
But I do have my thoughts and feelings about what's happening
in the world. I do think there is a silent
majority. That feels the same way and just
for some reason or another doesn't feel comfortable
expressing those feelings. I do my platform as a way to let
those people know that. Hey it you're not the only one.
That's ridiculous way. Yeah, I'm Mean, and that's
really the beauty of it. Right?
Is that, you know, I think I think individual is hate labels,
right? You know.
That's kind of the, you know, because you want to perceive
yourself as you know, whatever it is, you know, whatever it is
that, you know, you prefer, but you can't deny Marty that you
are covering things and maybe not at it because I don't have a
journalistic background. I don't think.
Do you have a German? Do you have a formal?
Like background either. Okay, well, but we still I think
the internet has empowered us and has given us the ability to
at least talk about it in in an open honest or at least we
believe we perceive it that way. And I mean you could make the
argument that Joe Rogan is a podcaster, he's not a
journalist, but is he providing more journalism than the the
Corporate media institutions, right?
So that's, that's a deep rabbit hole.
But I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe the old perception
of what a journalism when a journalist should be.
Like I think that, you know, heading into this new age, the
information age, whatever you want to call it.
I think I think it's really anybody with a camera and a
microphone that's just willing to air out their thoughts.
Yeah. Yeah, it's like the etymology of
Journalism. What are you doing your
journaling? And I've literally journal on my
website. Everyday, maybe I am a
journalist. But yeah, I think it's important
and important Trend. And as we saw throughout covid
with the big Tech platforms, like, Twitter Before He'll on
took over Facebook YouTube. Whatever it may be.
They did not like individuals, like yourself.
You may put in as ideas out there.
And so, I think, even though we're doing this today and we
have been doing it for a while, like there are concerted efforts
to Curb what we're doing. And so that's why at TC were
trying to inoculate ourselves from that future attack by using
more songs and software Stacks. Like goes to be TCP server to
serve our content and monetize it, which were hoping a package
up and get out there to other individuals like ourselves, who
are, or putting out this type of work.
In a world that seems to be getting increasingly censorious.
100%. Do you think they'll let us
broadcast in the gulags? No, they were not to get armies
of pigeons is speakin cell phone so that we can tweet and live
stream to the world, man. I'm bullish on those on those.
Marty bent on those bent, bro. A transmitted via pigeon
messenger. Those will be there will be some
good ones. Never gets that we're not going
to go to the new legs and we're going to win.
Yeah, we're gonna win. Of course, I agree eyes.
You guys are not coming back so one of the jokes that I make
with Opti all the time is, you know, and Marty I'm a first
generation American. I originally, I came from my
parents came better said and I grew up it was very privileged
enough to to grow up in the States and Miami specifically, I
came from Venezuela and I saw what the outcome of this to put
it nicely in gently of this collectivist mindset of wear,
it, you know, where that leads, and where I see the states
heading. Is in that direction.
The hope that I have is really Bitcoin, right.
Bitcoin is where I'm like, okay, you know, what?
If if we don't have Bitcoin would be screwed, right?
Because this is just going to continue to, you know, head down
this direction. But I think that the adoption of
Bitcoin, I'm more bullish of it because, you know, it's Game
Theory. I think it's going to be more
embraced by individual states. I think the federal government
is really, what is? I don't think they're going to
react. So kindly to it that is I don't
think they have been. So what are your thoughts on
that? And I know that, you know your
home base is in Texas. What do you see on the Texas
level on the state level? How do you see them reacting to
bitcoin? Is it ever a possibility?
You know, I always say I'm like, look as soon as one state puts
Bitcoin on its balance sheet, it is game over.
It's done, done and dusted. And it is that a possibility?
How are Texas? Policymakers or Regulators or
hate using the word politicians. How are they seeing that?
Is that something that you're involved in?
Or are you kind of, like, the mindset of like, you know, this
system is just so broken, Beyond repair.
This is about really focusing on the individual and really
getting the individual to, to open their eyes, to bitcoin and
more of a Grassroots type of inception, you know, strategy
versus a, you know, We have to try to convince the politicians.
What are your thoughts on that? I think it's dual fast and I
think it definitely starts with the individual at the Grassroots
movement, but then it moves up to that political level and I
think as bitcoiners we should ardently like convince our local
government officials, whether it be the County city state level
to embrace Bitcoin, I do think in Texas that certainly
happening. Obviously there's been a big
boom in the I'm going to show you down here in Texas and so
far so good. I would argue there's a lot of
concentration, hash rate and a few Mega Minds, which isn't
ideal. But I think overall the
reception of Bitcoin mining and Texas has been good.
And then in terms of other policy initiatives in Texas, I'm
not involved directly with all them or any of them.
But I do think there has been a lot of material positive
progress to convince politicians for the be at the state level,
or represent our Senators like, Ted Cruz at the federal level
that that have been sold on bitcoin that that should bode.
Well, protectionism in Texas, historical e, has put Texas
first above the federal government.
When I think when it comes to bitcoin, it'll be similar.
And I think the trend, Positive trend that's been emerging over
the last few years since the code that lockdowns you have
Texas Florida. Other states asserting their
autonomy against the federal government.
So we're not be surprisingly, it's but if you see a state like
Texas or Florida openly flaunt Federal Regulations against
Bitcoin if they do materialize in the future.
So, yeah, I think going back to your question.
I don't think we need To convince politicians do tickets
a positive outcome. If we do, but convincing
politicians begins with convincing enough individuals to
make the argument to, to those politicians.
So, yeah, it starts at the Grassroots level with the visual
bitcoiners sort of gathering together wherever they may be
putting together a plan or a pitch to The politicians, it
should I pay look, At all the mining Industries, helping her
tax revenue, new, certain counting say we could all the
companies coming to your state because of the tax, the tax
environment here, they're starting companies Bitcoin
companies because you're a state that is treating well you should
continue sure you tomorrow. So yeah, I think that trend is
going in the right direction here in Texas so I think it will
continue Got married Direction, but he's going to stay vigilant.
Don't depend on the state, think it's an added benefit if you can
convince them, but it's never wrong.
Conclusion. So always go individual.
First, you gotta convince as many people as possible to put
big win on the personal balance, sheets and use it in their
businesses and their everyday lives.
And then the politicians hands will be forced at some point.
That's you. It a critical mass?
Yeah 100%. So what do you think about?
And the reason I'm asking you this is I think what I've seen
from bitcoiners is oh they're just they just don't know
enough, you know, they're not educated on the subject matter,
you know, us at simply believe that it is nefarious.
It is on purpose where you have politicians that are openly
hostile towards Bitcoin. You had the infamous bill that
was introduced by Senator Elizabeth Warren and she tried
to make it, you know, bipartisan getting a Republican.
Senator Senator Marshall to basically Force just absolutely
absurd. And I think it's unenforceable,
but at least, I think what they were trying to do is slightly
move the Overton window, number one, and number two, I think in
the unintended consequence of introducing that bill, they
really showed their cards, they really showed how they felt
about that. And Basically the bill would for
software developers in the United States to register with
the government if they wanted to write code for Bitcoin, which is
absolutely absurd. And of course, they took
advantage of the ft x SBF. Blow up to justify the
introduction of that type of bill.
So, the question that I have for you Marty is, do you believe it
was nefarious? Do you believe that they knew
exactly what they were doing? Or do you come from the school
of thought? Where they just, you know, these
are just old, you know, Senators, they just don't know
any better. What are your thoughts on that?
All right. Thank you.
Senator Warren definitely know that if passed this bill would
significantly curb adoption of Bitcoin development around the
equator did have nefarious Intentions by presenting it.
She is not like Bitcoin she wants to kill big going.
But with that being said, I mean, if you look at her history
of proposing bills, this seems to be a par for the course for
her. It seems more of an
attention-grabbing. Action than anything.
She has done this many times in the past with other bills.
Not directly related to bitcoin but she likes to make a Big
Splash in the news and draw up a bunch of fervor to get
attention. But if you look at her history
of actually getting these bills passed, I think it's like water.
300 and something like 97 or something like that.
So I'm not worried about the bill actually getting passed,
but, yeah, it does definitely Lift the veil of her true
intentions, which is just thought that Bitcoin because she
is just a, this, that heart that wants to control everything.
She can obviously nobody controlled their client.
So, of course, she didn't want to stop that.
So let's talk about, you know, worst-case scenarios.
And I think both of us, you could, you could make the
argument that we've our career decisions are tied with with the
industry. Would you believe in?
Do you ever foresee a? And you know what?
And I spoke to Matthew Pines about I've spoke to Matthew pies
about this. Jason, Brett, David Zale.
And I always ask the same question.
Do you think I'm asking you the same?
Russian. Marty, do you think that a 6/10
to order would ever be something that would happen in the United
States? Specifically if because like
look the reality is is that the US federal government gets a
tremendous amount of power from weaponizing the dollar, right?
And through via US sanctions policy Office of foreign assets
control etc, etc and Bitcoin specifically.
If it's widely adopted by countries that are open or, you
know, the US government better said, or is considers hostile to
the United States. It would be a way for them to
circumvent that us sanctions policy in a very effective way.
Do you think it would? We would ever reach a point
where the US federal government would do something?
So radical as to you. Outright ban, the possession of
Bitcoin by American citizens like a 6/10 to order you think
that's that would ever be a possibility in the US.
Sure, done it before. Why wouldn't they do it again?
But if they do. I mean I've tweeted this out and
talked about this a lot like and I get my Bitcoin.
I'm not going to stop using Bitcoin.
I think there's Tens of thousands hundred thousands.
Potentially millions of other people who think the same way.
This is when we need good old-fashioned, Civil
Disobedience to come back and hopefully they're enough
individuals who have Bitcoin but they actually control.
They possess the private keys and you can openly flaunting
your sending Bitcoin back and forth to yourself and there's
nothing that they can do to stop it and then on top, Top of that.
Like I, yes, they can certainly try and will not surprise me if
they did try. But I think we live in a day and
age in a particular point in time where the marginal return
on these on these tyrannical actions by the federal
government is significantly being reduced.
I think you who we are witnessing a epic collapse in
confidence and the institutions, particularly the Federal
Government and the alphabet soup of agencies that sit Below in.
And so I think with the lockdowns the vaccine roll out,
the Twitter files exposing that, the FBI is essentially
controlling speech on the social media platforms.
Look at energy policy. Look at monetary policy.
Everything that's happening with inflation.
I think it's becoming they're really obvious obviously you had
The ten to twenty percent of people who are pure status or
just need authority to tell them what is truth and what is and
we're never going to be convinced.
But I think the silent majority people are pretty.
Sufficiently pissed off that if push came to shove, and the
Government tried to do this, say fuck you.
This is a step too far. You've already fucked with the
money in my bank account, you completely debased.
I'm not going to let you mess with this.
I'm hopeful. I think I'm an idiot, people
think I'm crazy for believing this, but I do think that if
that did come and there was a good concerted effort to
convince people that Civil Disobedience was the most
effective way to to basically quash that act to stop Bitcoin
for Liberation United States that we could be successful.
Again, I bring us up every once in a while people.
Think I'm crazy but maybe I just have more hope and the American
Spirit that is a bit dormant but it's still there and in the
bellies of a lot of people. Well, I'm really glad that, you
know, at least we'll be in the gulag together.
Marty. So I'm really looking forward to
that. No.
But I feel the same way and what a crazy crazy time.
Do you believe in the in the fourth turning Theory, or do you
believe that we are in a fourth turning?
Yeah. I mean whether or not it's the
fourth turning as described in the book because it Neil Howe by
Neil. Who knows whether the Cycles are
exactly as described in his book, but I think it's
undeniable so recognize that mean, you know, I mean, I'm a
millennial is born in 91. We're born at this inflection
point in human history. And with the dawn of the
internet age, digital age, the Nation age, whatever you want to
call it quits. forcing these changes on the world that humans
have never Don't risk, particularly the pace of change.
And so with that change you're definitely going to be a power
struggle as the incumbent system, tries to hold onto the
power structures that existed before the information age.
And yeah, definitely think we are living through this period
of massive change. Its combination, technology
demographics, generationally messing up the money.
It's like a perfect storm, going back to the previous table.
That's why I think the conditions are sort of ripe for
this environment of Civil Disobedience where people like
our age are going to stand up and say that like you 80, 80
year-old geriatrics are going to tell us what to do with our
future. You guys are two feet away from
the grave can ask. Give us control and stop fucking
up our lives. Yeah, 100%.
And It's interesting because the, the militant Necessities,
you know, I always say bitcoiners slavery.
The, I think that, we, I think inherently, we know, deep down
inside, like, man, like this is, what's the future ahead of us?
Write the future. You know what they propose is a
life of CBD. Sees you won't own a gas stove.
Eat fake meat, do what you're told or will shut your bank.
Count and the other alternative and I think people are asleep to
that. Like people don't really
understand that those are really the only two Alternatives in the
future, right? Because that's the direction
that Fiat money and state money is going like they are hell-bent
on implementing these. See bdcs, I don't think they'll
be able to implement them without coercion without some
type of force, that I don't think they'll ever be able to
match Bitcoins incentives. But that's exactly, you know,
the reality. The route that we're going
through, a why is it that, you know, the average, the average
everyday person in a way, they're still asleep, right?
It's really the bitcoiners and we're kind of look like we kind
of, to be honest. Like we kind of look like
maniacs, dude. Like we're like look bitcoiners
slavery. This is what's going on.
And in a way, sometimes I feel like we're in an echo chamber,
right? It's like things have to
continuously break for people too.
Really wake up to the fact. I think it obviously helps you
know the kind of the collapsing confidence and all these
government institutions that people you know trusted for
decades include you could add media institutions into that
mix, right? So I guess the question that I
have for you is what are your thoughts on cbc's and why are
normies still so asleep? Man?
What's going on with that? Well, I think Norman's answer.
It's a question first. I think normies are still
Asleep, I think they're waking up, but I still there.
Still mostly asleep because their lives haven't been
disrupted, an opioid even. But I think going back to like,
people are waking up. I think block towns or big
disruption, people's lives. That will go.
A lot of people up to the fact that these governments are very
orwellian and do not make the best decisions at every given
point in time. We need people, react to stress,
lockdowns, her a lot of stress works and people up.
You can pound that with the inflation that is ensued from
the opening up of the economy. The effects of all the money
program that went down during lockdowns and that's beginning
to materially affect people began to wake up, like, how the
hell? It's a car in a bag?
$10. People begin to question, how
come I can't get baby formula? As reliably as I used to?
Like, where? Where is this?
Or Is this gone wrong? What was the first part of the
question again? I completely forgot.
Oh, what are your thoughts on cbc's cvtc's the CDC?
I mean, yeah, China's implemented them to some success
in some provinces. I just think from a technical
perspective literally like writing the code You can argue,
we already live in a CDC world like if the government wanted
to, we could just go to our digital bank accounts and do
what they want. They seats funds and freeze bank
accounts all the time. It's just adding a few more
features to that. I think the CDC in the US is
unlikely. The FED many officials have come
out and said that they don't even recommend the CDC doesn't
work and I think that's because they work on behalf of the big
commercial Banks here in the United States.
The CBC is ever implemented and enforced on the populace.
The commercial banking system gets cut out of that equation.
So I actually think you have an incentive or happening where I'm
not a big fan of the big Banks here in the United States but
had think they'll actually be a huge hurdle to CDC Ever Getting
implemented because they get cut out of the equation.
All of their profits, and Revenue.
Go away almost immediately CBC ever materialized and so I think
we're actually we've got to evil forces that will fight each
other to the death. Over this at the benefit of
bitcoiners will just be able to be like a bong meme where the
commercial Banks and those trying to force the CDC on
Americans will be fighting each other, and we'll just be
building Bitcoin. Slowly in the background and
people continue to adopt it. Yeah, cdc's extremely.
Scary Prospect definitely will not live in a world of cvtc's.
I will not use the CDC but I don't think it's likely here in
the United States, could be wrong, but I think greed will
get in the way of that great on behalf of the central part of
the commercial Banks. Yeah, so it's kind of like the
enemy of your enemy is your friend type of things actress
situation. Yeah, so, you know, one of the
things Means at least it's frustrating right where the
reality is that right now very few merchants accept Bitcoin.
There's also the you know the tax implications specifically
for larger transactions and you know they have this super just
bullshit law, legal tender, just forcing people to use the
currency forcing using forcing people to use a currency that
steals from them. So essentially I mean is that
something that like it is that an inevitability like it?
Do we do it does it have to do? You believe like it has to
escalate to a point where we have to push for Bitcoin to be
legal tender? Like a situation like El
Salvador or to be fully embraced because the reality is that, you
know, human beings like conveniency, like conveniences,
right. And you can't deny Why that it
is inconvenient to use Bitcoin specifically as a means of
payment in, in the United States.
Like not, you know, obviously with bitcoiners it's like a bro
here you go but you know for you're going to CVS or you know,
you're going to one of your favorite restaurants, right?
You know, the reality is that a lot of merchants just find it as
an inconvenience to accept something like Bitcoin.
How, how do you see that playing out?
First plays out by making it easier to accept Bitcoins.
So things like strikes integration with NCR that self
checkout. Counters, that will be big for
the ability to large retailers to, to accept Bitcoin, or to
allow their customers to pay in Bitcoin.
They don't necessarily need to hold it on their balance sheet,
but I think slowly over time, they will begin to So, that's
the first thing that's making it easier for these Merchants
actually accept Bitcoin, loved Beatty Pacer BTK server user
myself. That's how we receive all the
Bitcoin at cftc with our company.
But expecting every Merchant to spin up a be TCP server and
implemented in their point of sale system is probably not
going to happen, so people like strike and integrated with NCR
Square obviously. Cash app has been an early mover
in Bitcoin, Jack. Dorsey is a massive advocate of
Bitcoin would not be surprised if they begin to turn on bitcoin
receiving capabilities for their point of sale system and that
will unlock tens of Millions. Hundreds of millions, of
merchants overnight to be able to receive adequate.
And then, once you get to that point in terms of like tax,
burden and the legal ramifications and legal tender
laws, I think it gets to a point where just simply, it's like the
Nick. They do think of a zebra was
idea that what you have to do to get these Technologies widely
adopted and then Force, the government hand, it is make them
too expensive to it for. So you get to a point point
where the ability to accept Bitcoin as a merchant as easy as
toggling a button on the back end of your beer, point-of-sale
application, and then you open it up, million people begin
spending Bitcoin, the yes, there may be de minimis tax laws in
place, but at a certain scale individuals actually using
Bitcoin at these Merchants is just becomes too expensive to
mmm. Course the tax law.
And so you essentially just have this scenario which like in
people are just like we're using this.
Yeah, of course some people will will never lie.
Get caught up in the net and maybe get audited by the IRS but
hopefully enough they actually pay their taxes that they do it
correctly. They can survive those audits
about legal ramification but certain points.
Going to be literally impossible for the government to enforce
these tax laws, if enough people are using Bitcoin.
Of course, that depends on adoption usage, but I'm
confident that will happen. Especially when you take into
consideration the state of inflation and the growing
distrust for government will be bumps in the road.
But I think overall at the end of the day we'll get too
expensive to enforce these types of laws.
I am I running the show? No.
Yeah I think Nico fell off. He got rug pulled from restream.
So Bruce research and Drug pull the restream ragdolls.
Let me see, he's texting me right now, but let me see what's
going on with him. Yeah, you just just rip it for a
moment while I try to get him back in.
Going against the US government. But at the end of the day, the
government has proven to be evil corrupt.
I don't really care about you as an individual.
They care about their ability to take control over your life and
like Nico saying earlier, there's a bunch of people still
have their hands heads in the sand and are willingly going
along with the government. Again, I think Think that that
tide is changing. And I do think we need to get
back to the Revolutionary spirit that this country was founded
on. Civilly, disobey its most
important thing civilly disobey peacefully disobey by simply
sending and receiving Bitcoin transactions.
And so, I do think we need to make Civil Disobedience of
thing. People need to engender
mentalities of, not being afraid of their government, government
was supposed to work for you instead.
Weapons. I feel, and has become
abundantly clear to me at least that the government, not only
not representing us, it is actively harming us to making
life materially worse off. And so if you have an Avenue to
opt out into peacefully, disobey their evil orders, which Bitcoin
provides and you should do. So these are civic duty.
I 100% agree and it's interesting because once we
started having these types of conversations looks like,
Restream rug pulled me softly, thanks for holding it down.
But uh, this this, I don't know what happens, Marty, but 10,
when we tend to have these types of conversations some type of
deaf attentional difficulties. Oh man, but speaking of Civil
Disobedience, that's the beauty of Bitcoin though, right?
Is that it's like the Civil civil.
Disobedience is just Opting out, it's literally just taking your
Bitcoin, put it into Cold Storage, living your life and I
love what you mentioned in the beginning about, you know, I
love Texas. Slim, I've had too many times on
the show, right? It's this idea of sovereignty,
this is, you know, Jeff Booth calls.
It, decentralization versus centralization and I agree, I
think we're, I think learning right?
That the path forward is personal responsibility.
It's like I think we've got in here because people have whether
it's the, you know, the Outsourcing information,
Outsourcing food Outsourcing money, right?
And I think that just, you know, as frankensteined into this
monstrosity, that, you know, the personification of it, like the,
the example of it is, is the world economic Forum, the
continuing are conference, right?
Barney, did you know that the world economic Forum was founded
in? In 71.
Yeah, okay, Klaus Henry Kissinger got together.
So we need to, we need to begin putting together for a broad
economics, but yeah, again, it's become like, especially this
year. I mean, all the other clips that
came out all the panels, like, people are extremely
hypocritical and it's becoming glaringly obvious, like, shout
out to the rebel. Dues guys who are We're asking
actually hard questions to these world leaders and CEO of Pfizer
Larry Fink as they're walking through Davos and small exhibit
examples like that where they're able to go there and ask people
these the questions that they should be.
Should have been asked for many years now.
But the lap dog, corporate media, just refuses, or doesn't
even think about asking and and it's like a death by a Thousand
Cuts every every clip of them being unable to answer genuine
questions, that should be answered and then getting up on
stage and after flying private jets and to Switzerland and
trying to sort of looking for trying to lecture the rest of
the world on climate change in there.
You can function just very obviously hypocritical more and
more people are waking up to that.
And I think these people are losing grip on the narrative
which comes first, and eventually, they'll lose their
grip on Power. And that's the funny thing at
the end of the power is perception.
That people only perceive that these people are powerful but
like you said, the power lies in the hands of the individual.
At the end of the day, you have the power to download a Bitcoin
wallet into And payment of Bitcoin, you have power to get
up off your ass with Shaker, local, ranchers, hand and say.
I'm going to buy my be from you. Instead of going to the large
grocery store, you have the power and say, hey I'm going to
use nostril over Twitter. You have the power to basically
say, fuck you and like, what's your opinions, am not doing this
anymore, mad as hell, and I'm simply not going to do this
anymore. I have the power to opt in.
These other ways of living my life and we're going to do that.
Obviously there is some personal responsibility on the individual
at the end of the day. But I think more and more are
taking that particular personal responsibility recognizing that
they need to do it and taking them through their parents 100%
like there but does it worry you?
And I think you actually mentioned the percentage of
people you said around 20% of people and you know my my
girlfriend And like she's been with me and you know she's a bit
corner just by proximity and just being close to me and
whatever and you know G has Bitcoin stores Bitcoin whatever.
But you know she's you know her Minds it, another place and it I
I always loved her opinion because it's a non biased
opinion, you know, me and you are in the trenches fighting the
good fight, you know, we put her heart and soul into what we do.
And she said the most intuitive, Mint and I think it was so true.
She's like Nico, this is great sound money, this is amazing.
I get it this is great you know write down 24 words
theoretically store Millions you know billions trillions She's
like Nico. But frankly, I think people are
too stupid and I was, and I thought about that and I'm like,
and that is because think about all the all the convenience that
people like like Marty do you think that if someone had a
choice and you know, they weren't educated on the matter,
it had a choice between you know, slightly inconvenient,
freedom and convenient, convenient slavery, which are
sent cdc's You could make a pretty big bet that a big
percentage of people are just going to be like sign me up.
You know you made the case that you know, excuse me, that cbc's
probably not going to happen in the United States because you
know the the the large influence of the commercial Banks but you
get what I'm trying to say, right?
That you could bet your, you can make pretty, you know, strong
assumption that there's going to be a percentage of people that
are just not going to opt out of state money.
Why do you code you come from the school of thought where it's
like, it doesn't matter, you know, spets key wrote that
article where it's like we are the remnant you know?
The masses don't matter. Like what are your thoughts on
that? I like that article, the idea
The Remnant, but I think the CDC world would be extremely more
inconvenient, right? Like if you eat too much me one
month and you go to the grocery store and you can't buy a steak
because you've exhausted your your carbon rations and the CBD
SeaWorld that's inconvenient. It's much like the hurdle to
downloading. Vic.
That's another thing too. That's what I think.
It's a disservice big winner do for themselves just B coin comes
with extreme ownership and responsibility and securing a
seed phrase and a Bitcoin wallet is a new action that people need
to get comfortable with but it's not that hard.
Keep literally download the map and write down some words, it's
not that inconvenient and when you juxtapose it with you and
convenience about being able to do what you I want to do whether
it be by a steak or by plane ticket to go visit a family
member like that is a much more inconvenient future than the
world. With a Bitcoin standard much
more convenient pass control of your money can be able to buy
what you want, said them having the government.
So now you can't do this, you know, I think my do.
Maybe I go back and forth in that have historically, like Ms.
People are dumb or not going to get it.
There's going to follow the state and do whatever they tell
them. But again I think going back to
the fourth turning collapse in confidence.
I think we do live in this special moment in time where you
have this, perfect. Combination of things, the
degradation of the money, the Fret fragility of the financial
system, the distrust in federal government and politicians, it's
all coalescing in this moment right now where I'm at.
Again, maybe I'm naive, maybe I'm stupid, but I am optimistic
that we the tides are turning People didn't push too far to
the edge and they're going to begin pushing back and if you
look at human history we have more tools than ever to push
back the double-edged sword yes the digital world and everything
that's been built up by the state and technocrats.
It can be extremely restrictive. It can cattle herd you into this
digital pad Optica and but we also have the open source
technologies that could lead us to Freedom.
And I think again going back to convenience or inconvenience
there I would argue that the CDC world will be extremely more
inconvenient than in a world on a Bitcoin standard.
Yes you may have to write down and secure some words but I
think given the option between that and not being able to buy a
stake when you want to, I think people will figure out how to
write down and secure those words interesting.
So to you, You make the argument that the vast majority of
people, if pushed to a certain extreme would like, it's so
ridiculously give you think about it?
Like what is what is harder opening a bank account nowadays
or writing down 24 words, right? Like I would make the argument
that opening a bank account is 100 times more difficult than
writing down. 24 words, I guess. Maybe I don't you know, the the
This analogy fits best, right? It's so cliche bringing up
during a Bitcoin podcast but you know, the the scene where it's
like Neo after a certain age, we just don't wake people up
because they've been their minds can't handle that.
They've been in The Matrix for so long.
And I used that analogy to describe that, you know,
specific like if I'm talking like about my parents, for
example, right? Yeah, my mom been holding
Bitcoin for as long as I have, you know, 2016, right?
But if I tell her mom, you know, send me some Bitcoin, you know,
it's going to be very difficult to do that.
So maybe for the younger Generations, I would say.
And I'm again, it's not black and white of course, but I think
that there is going to be a percentage of people that maybe
they don't they they're not going to have the technical
capability or technical know-how specifically the generation that
that isn't internet native like it's very easy for me and you to
say this This Marty, because of our because of our ages, right?
We are millennials, we kind of grew up with the internet, but
someone older, right? It might be a little bit more
difficult. You could say, Is it though they
can send. Why?
No, it's not. It's totally not right.
Yeah, but yeah. it all comes back to storytelling, I can tell
the better story, The more hopeful story and that's what I
think it plays to our advantage like the corners incredible
vision of the future that it's hopeful that is optimistic, that
includes freedom and sovereignty particularly with your money.
But then that seeps into other points of your life, and then
you just look at who we're up against and they're painting the
future of not owning anything, not owning anything, the world's
going to end from, Climate change one of these days but
happening for decades, but don't worry next year.
It's going to happen. And again, I think people just
get worn out and overtime is the ux around.
That's the only thing I think the ux around receiving and
sending Bitcoin and backing up Bitcoin is going to get
significantly better as well. So yes, it may be hard today to
ask your mom like a semi semi two million SATs, but I think
especially What I'm seeing right now.
In the 1031 perspective, there's incredible about a talent
engineering talent, and design talent that is coming to build
on bitcoin. That'll abstract, a lot of the
perceived complexities that that are involved with sending and
receiving Bitcoin. I agree, I'm Marty before we
wrap it up. I think one last question and
really, I think a lot of People you know, not the people that
been advocating for you know, dollar cost average, you know
course Odell's famous slide, stay humble stack SATs but I
think a lot of people were anticipating, you know, hundred
k 2 coin last cycle. You know I come from the mining
background. I you know, I come from the
angle of, I think that the CCP bands Bitcoin mining right in
the middle of the bull run. You know, that inevitably led to
the, you know, the hash rate dropping of course, a lot of
miners had to do. Dump a lot of coin, do you know
to pay for the relocation of a lot of those Miners?
And but we didn't hit 100K Bitcoin, right?
I think we hit was the max. There's like 69 or something.
What was your personal? We're you let down in that.
Are we looking into a future where you know, Bitcoin isn't
going to? Of course, I don't believe that
it's going up forever. Laura, but you know what are
your thoughts on that? Like do you you know is the
party over so to speak? No.
No, I've been around since 2013, I bought the Pico top of that
cycle like $1400 and watched it and drop downs like 180 bucks
like the course of 2014 2015 and that was significantly worse
bear Market. I mean I Was wasn't counting
100,000 out of the picture when we were in that last bull
market. But it doesn't surprise me at
all, but it didn't get there. And if you look at it, we only
don't believe like 77 percent from that all-time high and the
lows that we hit late last year, which isn't the worst drawdown a
Bitcoin seen throughout its history.
I just think this is par for the course when you compare it to
pass Cycles. Again, going back to what.
When I just said, like the talent that's dedicated to
actually building out infrastructure where the be of
mining at the protocol level on the lightning that where we'll
have sediments coming to Market here.
Soon, like, I don't think the fundamentals of never been
stronger. In terms of distribution, of
hash rate distribution of known, operators development Talent,
dedicated to building on the network new ideas.
Making it to the Lively because it's ever been and it seems like
it's accelerating one part of the world.
It gives me extreme. I was developing markets that
have recognized Bitcoins utility and are moving quite
aggressively to build on top of it.
So yeah, getting hit 100K, I still have laser eyes.
I will be keeping them on until we head out here, okay?
But then it's a I wouldn't have been surprised we had on your
gate. I'm not surprised that we didn't
either, it's just par for the course with these Cycles.
At once you go through a few, you become pretty hard and just
come to expect the unexpected. You never know what it's going
to do. Just, keep keep building.
Keep stacking, keep evangelizing and helping.
Educate people about why this is important and how it can help
their lives. And yeah, I think that's the
most important thing going back to like storytelling just have
to continue telling a better story especially considering the
global economic and geopolitical background.
I think people are looking for a reason to be hopeful and
optimistic for the future. And Bitcoin is one of the few
areas are really paints that that future and we just need to
begin getting that story out there.
Telling it slowly. But surely I think more and more
people will be coming to adopt Bitcoin.
Amen. Well, mr.
Marty been. It's been an absolute pleasure.
I really enjoyed this. I have to ask this out of every
guest that where can people find you?
And what he wanted on nowadays? Yeah, Marty been on Twitter.
TFT see that IO is where you can find the newsletter.
Pfft interview series. Obviously we do under Rabbit
Hole recap every Thursday at almost everything once a week
with Matt Odell, which is a lot of fun.
We've been doing that for five years and then beyond that I'm
co-founder of standard Bitcoin which is a In company, a lot of
our hash rate is in Tennessee. We're doing some cool things
there to help stabilize the grade in rural areas and then
1031 partner at 10:31 or Bitcoin focused Venture Capital firm.
We can support Bitcoin only companies and bitcoiners who are
building out the infrastructure user experience that we talked
about during this conversation. Beautiful.
Thank you, Marty, for joining us.
Appreciate it Opti, please make me full screen since restream
booted me out of the producer seat guys, thank you so much for
joining us on another episode of Simply bitcoind live shout out
to Marty this is really special to me and I was really looking
forward to this for a long time Marty and Marty and Matt big
inspiration really Pioneers in the Bitcoin content creation
field when they started. There was really nothing there.
So Huh, shout out to shout out to Marty for coming on, thank
you. We'll be back tomorrow.
Regular episode of Simply Bitcoin live 12:15 p.m.
Eastern Standard Time. See you guys later Opti.
Wrap it up my friend.