Yo. Only hours after Sailor
bombarded the Microsoft board with 52 slides in 3 minutes to
convince them to buy Bitcoin, the Giga Chad went on the
national news and gave another master class.
Will Microsoft be able to resist the Bitcoin playbook?
I don't know we'll see let's check out the clip and then
we'll talk about it. Let's check it out Tell.
Me what you think or told Microsoft that they should do
and and what are the chances that happen?
Microsoft is buying its own stock back.
It's buying bonds. It's dividing out cash flows.
If they simply swept their existing cash into Bitcoin, it
probably adds a trillion of the market cap and $150.00 to the
share price. If they converted the dividend
into Bitcoin as another $150.00 to the share price, Another
trillion to the market cap. If they replace the buybacks
with Bitcoin, instead of surrendering the capital, they
invest the capital adds another trillion dollars and $150.00 to
the share price. If they just take a little bit
of leverage, they basically take 10% leverage on a, on a huge
stack of Bitcoin, they add another trillion.
So what I'm saying is instead of surrendering the capital and and
then leveraging up the company, right now Microsoft trades at 20
times forward expectations. So what you're, what you're or,
or I'll say it, 95% of the enterprise value of Microsoft is
based on expectations is the best way to say it, right?
And that means it has it's very asset poor.
It's expectation rich. Why don't you actually buy
assets and instead of being 95% on expectations be 50% on
expectations de risk the company grow the enterprise value and
and feed the digital economy of the future.
What was the response? The shareholder meeting is
December 10th. We'll find out.
What do you expect? Glazed eyes.
I don't have any illusions that mega corporations are going to
immediately embrace Bitcoin. But what I do think is it's
going to become part of the conversation and there are about
120 companies that are public that are starting to hold
Bitcoin right now. There are a lot of Bitcoin
standard companies like Mara, like similar, like Metaplanet,
like you know, Rumble is getting into the business and as they
start to buy Bitcoin and issue fixed income securities and
equity securities, you're going to see demand increase.
So what inning are we in, you think?
Sorry. What inning?
It feels like we're in like the second inning of of, of all, or
even, maybe not even. Yeah, I, I think we get into the
third inning when we cross $100,000.
That's the third right now. We're still early.
I think that there's. A softball game, it could might
be a twilight doubleheader even might might be or, you know,
maybe 13 or 14 innings. Michael, thank you.
I'm going to go home and think some more.
I, I think on this after you come in and then my head starts
hurting and then then I give up. But thank you, Joe.
You're welcome. I'd like to tie SO.
Why is everyone's head spinning? Why is Michael Saylor just
blowing Wall Street out of the water?
Why is everyone so confused? Why is everyone looking at this
and saying, what is this guy doing?
Well, take a look at the market cap of MicroStrategy.
You want to talk about a 20 year vindication?
Here it is so back in the infamous.com boom and bust.
His market cap micro strategies market cap peaked at $10.87
billion. It literally went sideways from
2001 to 2020. Only gained about $900 million
in market cap in those 20 years and the 20.
The 20 year vindication started when he started the Bitcoin
strategy. Microstrategy's market cap was
roughly at one point two 1.3 billion.
Fast forward four years later, I'm kind of like, excuse my
language, fuck, maybe I should have put 25% of my net worth in
micro strategy because he literally 80 exed it.
Or like 60 exed the market cap of micro strategy.
That is absolutely insane. That is the 20 year vindication,
I think is a testament of never giving up.
And here's some of the slides from yesterday's video, which
you guys loved yesterday's shows all time high.
We appreciate all the supporters think the show ended up with
like 20,000 views, 40,000 views and listens across all
platforms. And it's not even the end of the
week. So that's pretty effing crazy.
We appreciate you guys like the Smash the Like button if you
guys are enjoying today's show, but here's some screenshots from
yesterday's yesterday's presentation.
Michael Saylor only had three minutes to make a presentation
for the Microsoft board to convince them to buy Bitcoin.
So here are some of the slides that really popped out to me.
First one, what if you could buy $100 billion, $100 billion
company growing at 60% per year at 1X revenue?
What if this company was more profitable than your own?
And then he kind of like lays it out.
We've gone through what the the different strategies are based
on Michael Saylor's open source calculator, which we've used on
a simply Bitcoin before. You guys absolutely loved that
episode as well. The episode is called How much
Bitcoin do you need to retire? The one that had 16,000 views or
so. But anyways, these are kind of
different models based on what your exposure is to Bitcoin and
then based on what model Microsoft decides to use.
Michael Saylor is making the case that that the board could
add 1 trillion to $4.9 trillion worth of shareholder value just
by buying Bitcoin, just by having exposure to Bitcoin.
So not even changing the business model, not even
changing their operations, not even increasing revenue, just by
diverting the cash or cash equivalents, a percentage of
those and putting into Bitcoin. This is how much shareholder
value Microsoft can unlock. This is the case that Sailor is
making. Also, another way of looking at
it, this is in terms of share price increases.
So goes from $155, that's what they kind of minimum Bitcoin
exposure to a, you know, balls deep kind of Bitcoin exposure.
What Sailor coins, the triple maxi $584 worth of share value
increase. And again, Microsoft doesn't
have to change anything. They don't have to come up with
a different revenue model or come up with a different
business strategy. No, none of that.
All they have to do is divert some of their cash, treasure
some of their cash reserves or cash equivalent and put it into
Bitcoin. By the way, this is something,
this phenomenon is not just happening with MicroStrategy.
This phenomenon is happening, I would say, on a worldwide level.
Marathon announced recently that they're following the
MicroStrategy playbook and today we have a dear friend of the
show, CEO and founder of Bitcoin, well, Adam O'Brien
himself. And they just announced that
they are the first Canada's first publicly traded Bitcoin
exchange to adopt A Bitcoin strategy, adding 7.5 Bitcoin and
planning $2,000,000 in bonds to stack more.
So we also have Brandon from Green Lit Candle Investments,
awesome podcast, incredible content creator, love Bitcoin
content creators coming on the show.
Adam, I'm going to pass it on to you.
What is happening here? I mean, you could just tell by
squawk's face. He he even said at the end he's
like, I'm confused. But thank you Sailor.
Thank you for confusing me. So what is happening?
Did did Sailor find the infinite money glitch?
Are you guys are you guys implementing the infinite money
glitch? What is going on?
What is taking wall stream by storm?
Adam, the floor is yours. Yeah, man, I mean it seems like
there is a window. Look, the way that I see this
and for those, for those that are might be watching, I've
been, yeah, I've been calling the MSTR strategy.
I, I think there's a window of opportunity where this is very,
very good and it has potential to be good for a very, very long
time. The underlying business is
important. I think the way that we're doing
it is effectively giving a convertible debt on, on our
business, which is going to be convertible into shares.
We're paying interest in shares. This is from my perspective, an
equity product that gives the the convertible debt holder a
little bit of security because at the end of the day, it's
still, it's still a debt owned by the company and we're going
to take that cash and we're going to buy Bitcoin.
And so it does create a little bit of positive arbitrage in
that the way that we're structuring it anyways.
And it's a little bit different than the MSTR stuff because
we're way smaller and in Canadian micro cap land isn't
the same as you know, micro strategy on the NASDAQ it as a
as a now $100 billion company. But the way that we've got it
structured is we borrow money once it converts, then that debt
goes away and then there's a warrant for the the debt holder
as well, which means they get to buy shares at a later date.
So it's very attractive to the early stage investor.
And from our perspective, we kind of get money in two
different intervals, once kind of right away as the share price
increases and then once as the share price goes up about 40%.
And so if this works and it should, in a perfect world, we
will have, we will take the cash, we will buy Bitcoin, we
will do good business initiatives.
Those two things should you know, yield positive results.
Positive results means share price goes up.
Share price goes up means the debt goes away.
The debt goes away means the share price goes up.
As the share price goes up, more cash comes in from the warrant.
We buy Bitcoin, do good business things and repeat.
And so I think it's less of a infinite money glitch and more
of a steward of shareholder capital coupled with, you know,
Fiat markets at work. We have the ability to issue
equity in our company, which people already find valuable.
We have the ability to then take money in, buy Bitcoin and also
invest in our Bitcoin business. So we're heavily stocked up on
on Bitcoin exposure. And I think doubling, tripling,
quadrupling down on Bitcoin exposure is a positive thing for
for our business certainly. Absolutely, man dude, I will
first of all, Adam, what I got to say is, you know, to how long
could people keep this up before it breaks?
I. Think there's a?
There's a. Second point of being 1st and
This is why like, so I've been on this, this, this MSTR journey
for probably two months now poking holes, you know, finding
the problems that I didn't like, you know, a big one's going to
be the custody thing. You know, I think that like
Sailor is, is like the way that the debt converts was, was was
my miss at first. If it converts on the way up,
then all those liabilities go away and, and that kind of fixes
the problem. But there will come a time when
you will no longer get the insane premium on just simply
owning Bitcoin. And that happens ironically,
like if I'm going to if if I'm going to watch Microsoft adopt A
Bitcoin strategy and then Apple's going to do it and then
Amazon's going to do it and then Tesla's going to do it
eventually. You know, right now there's no
real competition for that, for that, that level of exposure
where an operating business can borrow an issue equity to stack
cheap stats. And so as competition comes into
space, or you know, what if half of the S&P 500 was doing this,
that premium comes down significantly.
Just, you know, like the free market economics.
And so probably we have a window of time, which is thanks to
bureaucracy, thanks to these, you know, incredibly lengthy and
bureaucratic shareholder meetings and, and the, and the
decision making process of these trillion dollar companies.
That's our window of time. Because at the end of the day,
to Sailor's point, like, why do you have cash?
Why on earth are you holding an asset guaranteed to go down in
value? And we've seen businesses try to
prop this up with real estate or with, you know, other
investments like look at Coinbase with their venture arm.
Like you've seen this, you've seen people try to do this, you
just kind of have a guaranteed return in Bitcoin and people are
going to figure that over the next three to five years.
And I think that's the window. It's interesting you say that
because it was, I remember it was Mauricio from Lend.
He he made the same case, right? He's like, it's literally
because people don't, there is no equivalent product to what
MicroStrategy offers. And that will eventually be
filled up by someone else. But because of the bureaucracy,
like you said, sometimes people can't get exposure to Bitcoin or
sometimes people can't get exposure to leverage Bitcoin.
So they're using MicroStrategy as that vehicle, which is
fascinating. And kind of, you know, I don't
know if Saylor did this on purpose, but you know, in
hindsight, it looks like a 4D chess move.
And it's also really a really exciting from a Bitcoin well,
shareholders perspective because it seems like you guys are
following that strategy as well. Do you want to add to that?
Yeah, man. So like if you look at our at
our stock price, so we're like we're a micro cap in Canada
worth less than 100 million bucks penny stock and ours like
we're called Bitcoin. Well our ticker is BTCW dot V
and we track the price of Bitcoin.
Like if you if you overlay Bitcoin onto Bitcoin, well it
looks the same. The difference is we are kind of
a hyper volatile version of Bitcoin.
So historically Bitcoin go up, Bitcoin well go up more and then
also Bitcoin go down, Bitcoin well go down more.
My job as the CEO is to make sure that we can, you know, make
Bitcoin well go up more and then limit Bitcoin go or Bitcoin well
go down more. And so in my mind, the best way
to do that is to cash up with the vehicles and with the with
the Fiat instruments that are available to us on the public
markets. I was talking to my bankers
yesterday and like we've had really good response.
We opened this up yesterday. We've had a great response so
far. The Canadian markets are excited
for something like this and we're doing it in a way that I
think is very, again, very friendly to the investors on
this, on this first go around. And if it's successful, then
yeah, we're going to look at the playbook and you know, take from
the sailor playbook what we like probably adopt more, a lot more
self custody than you know, we're not going to pile more
coins into the honeypot that is Coinbase.
We're going to, we're going to do like we're a Bitcoin first
company. And if we can give people like
my goal is that our shareholders are our users and our users are
our shareholders. And you know, I put out this
kind of vision cast a few months ago of the Bitcoin super company
creating an environment where we can help usher forward the
Bitcoin standard, kind of be the Fiat, the conduit between
Bitcoin and self custody and the legacy Fiat system.
And this is another tool in our, in our tool belt.
So it's, it's been crazy. I've spent, I think I tweeted
last night the words, I've spent an unholy amount of time with
investment bankers over the last few weeks putting this together
and organizing this and kind of going through how all the
different debts going to be structured.
But the real game changer here is that is a specific term in
there called a pick a payment in kind, which means we do not have
to pay, we, we pay the interest in equity, not in cash,
typically debt. And we've taken on punitive debt
in the past out of a, out of a place of, of, you know, some,
some desperation during, you know, the, the big dips.
And, and what I've learnt is the, the debt is holding us back
from growth. The debt is holding us back from
stacking. And so I was always very anti,
very anti debt. That would be punitive to our
operations and to helping us advance our mission.
But payment in kind means we're getting investors that are
taking debt have some security, but we pay them an equity.
So these are investors that are interested in the company's
success, not just, you know, clipping a coupon in cash for a
free warrant. And that's a, that's a key
distinction that I think is beneficial to the company, but
also from the shareholders looking at other shareholders,
it creates this awesome, everyone's got aligned
incentives here where typically in a debt, in a debt
environment, you've got maybe some misaligned incentives.
I think we're lucky that we have the ability to have aligned
incentives across our shareholders, our debt holders,
and you know, us as the company, which is cool.
Beautiful, beautiful. I'm a big fan of aligned
incentives. What it is what makes Bitcoin
tick anyways guys shout out to the 1600 of you guys watching
live between YouTube rumble and X.
If you guys are enjoying the show so far, make sure to smash
that like button you're you're listening to simply Bitcoin
live. Also, we have Brandon.
Brandon is one of my favorite Bitcoin only content creators.
His incredible YouTube channel does great interviews.
Brandon, how you doing today? Welcome to Simply Bitcoin.
Brandon, you are muted my friend.
That is a rookie. What is going on?
I thought you were a content. Creator come on, man, come on, I
that's that's on me hand up. I messed up on that one, but I'm
hyped to be here boys. I mean how could you not be with
this news going on Michael Saylor orange peeling Microsoft,
I mean it's absolutely unreal. So shout out to Adam too for
doing the same strategy. But I don't know, I was
backstage just sitting here getting a little fidgety boys.
So I did a little math here to, to, to bring to the show.
So it's, it's pocket math. So don't hate me for it, but I
was looking at micro Microsoft's market cap $3.197 trillion
comparatively to micro strategy, it's at 76.79 billion.
I, I think my pocket math has that as 41 times bigger than
micro strategy. And you know, if Microsoft was a
country, it would be bigger than France as if you're looking at a
nominal GDP. So I mean, this is absolutely
huge. I mean, he said that, you know,
we're in the third inning here or the 1st inning.
Excuse me, just kind of, you know, waiting for Bitcoin to
cross that 100 Ki mean once this vote comes out, man, I, I mean,
it might be tough to scoop up some of these cheap sats.
So I'm excited for the future and yeah, excited to be here.
And thank you guys so much for for having me.
Well, dude, thank you so much for coming on the show guys stay
tuned because we have a whole lot of content.
We Opti hasn't even spoken yet. We're 20 minutes in.
This is. I'm here just to look, pretty
guys. I'm here just to look.
Listen bro, you didn't have to look like a hunter because Adam
was joining the show today. I'm, I'm just kind of cold guys
don't mind me I'm I'm, I'm cold in my apartment.
I think it's getting winter here and I need to turn on the
heater. So This is why I'm.
Dude, I drove here in the snowman.
It's been I've been in a parka for two.
You gotta you gotta you gotta change your perspective bro.
Hey, I am not, I am not up north in the winter, you know.
So winter is just coming for me, Adam.
OK, just hit me like last week. All right, guys, we have a ton
of content for you guys. We have James Lavish responding
to Michael Saylor's infinite money glitch.
And of course, it seems like the European Union is going down the
totalitarian path. We have talks of digital IDs.
We have talks of central bank digital currencies, and
yesterday in the French parliament they were talking
about taxing unrealized capital gains.
Well, it looks like France is going to have fun staying poor,
so stay tuned guys as we have a load of content and during the
culture segment, we're going to talk to Adam O'Brien.
We're going to talk to Brandon so much to get to stay tuned
before we jump into today's show, I give a shout out to
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At the time of recording, the Bitcoin price is $95,690.00
block height 870,100 SAT's per dollar 1045 market cap 1.89
trillion Bitcoin priced in gold 36.2 ounces Bitcoin verse gold
market cap 10.29% Percentage issued 94.24% Decline from all
time high -4.1% realized monetary inflation 1.18%
Continuing to take Fiat currencies to absolute school.
Anyways, I love this idea of breaking the Bitcoin echo
chamber and for some reason people still believe that the
legacy media, mainstream media is is is the mainstream media.
But if you look at the raw numbers, looks like independent
media is taking its place. However, there's something up
about the prestige. There's something about, you
know, the chyrons and the, and the anchors and you know,
they're professionally spoken and the graphics and all that,
that makes it super legit and to to some people.
And you know, we all have to remember that us Bitcoin
content, we make Bitcoin, we make content for other
bitcoiners. It's so our goal is really to
break that echo chamber. And the way you do that is by
going on the legacy media and talking about Bitcoin.
So here's a friend of the show, James Lavish, who recently went
on Charles Payne, which is a show of he's an anchor on Fox
Business. I have the clip for you guys.
I'll play it. It's about 5 minutes long.
I don't know if we'll get through the entire thing and
then we'll talk about it with the.
Over Elon Musk. Because nobody right now is
rattling the cages of traditional Wall Street more
than Michael Saylor. And of course, it's the same
crowd of naysayers who lost billions of dollars shorting
Tesla. And while they're at it again
with their friends in a financial media taunting
Bitcoin, Michael Saylor. And of course, all the suckers
who are drinking the Kool-aid. Nobody would call my next guest
a sucker, but I think he's ranking the kool-aid too.
Want to bring a Bitcoin opportunity to fund Co managing
partner James Lavish? You know, James, explain the
value proposition for those at the back of the room who haven't
been paying attention. Yeah, well, it's good to be
here, Charles. Thank you for having me.
Drinking the kool-aid is a good way to put it.
But look, Michael has come up with a brilliant strategy at
Micro Strategy, and people are calling it a money glitch for a
reason. Why?
Because Michael has found a way to issue stock and make it
immediately accretive for his shareholders.
This is something that Wall Street is not used to.
Normally you issue shares, you do a secondary and it's usually
dilutive unless you can do something very quickly to make
to to create some value for your shareholders.
Well, what he does is he's borrowing money and buying
Bitcoin with it. So just for instance, if he
issues $100 million of stock and he buys $100 million of Bitcoin,
the stock goes up 200 to $300 million in market value and it's
immediately accretive, not dilutive.
And that's because people understand what he's doing.
The people who are buying a stock understand what he's doing
and that he's and he's creating this, this value for them, this
underlying value for him. The other thing he's doing is
he's issuing convertible debt and he can do that.
Charles at near 0 yield or the last one he did was $3 billion
for 0% yield. And why can he do that?
He can do it because the MSTR stock is underlying.
His stock is volatile and it's volatile because of the
underlying holding Bitcoin, but it's also volatile to the
upside, which creates, which creates optionality for his, his
buyers. And so he's able to issue this,
this, these converts at almost 0 yield because there's
optionality for those hedge funds to buy that convert debt
and trade around it. And then ultimately they'll look
to, they'll look to convert it into the underlying stock and
they'll get value from that as well.
So, James, we're going to put up a chart showing micro strategy
and Bitcoin itself. MSTR significantly outperformed
the the the the the the value proposition that you just
described. Is it?
Is that the only thing? Is there some other sort of
arbitrage situation going on? You know, I, I, I would think
that there are hedge funds that are trying to arbitrage this and
that would be buying Bitcoin or buying Bitcoin futures and then
shorting micro strategy, which I would say is a pretty dangerous
strategy. I wouldn't be doing that myself,
but the reason is what I just said is that it's trading at a
multiple because he's creating Bitcoin, underlying Bitcoin by
borrowing money against it. And as you go into the future,
these these shares would be worth more because of that
underlying Bitcoin. Now how long this goes on for
it's, it's hard to say, but it can go on for a very long time.
If if you he's right now trading, if you take all the
shares, dilute all of them out and and assume that every single
share is converted from all those converts, he's trading at
about a 2.7 multiple of shares, the share price to the
underlying Bitcoin. Leave it at their.
I mean leave it at that spot. I mean, that sounded very, very
similar to what Adam was saying in the beginning, Adam.
Like my, my question to you is like, why should people buy
Bitcoin if they could just buy Bitcoin, well, stock or
MicroStrategy? Why should people buy Bitcoin if
you don't? MicroStrategy is outperforming.
I think that's the question on a lot of people's minds.
We got a lot of comments regarding that on yesterday's
episode. What are your thoughts, Adam?
Yeah, man. I mean, Bitcoin, well, and micro
strategies are not Bitcoin. I think sailors said this
himself. And I would certainly fall in
this camp, too. In 50 years, you know, I'll be
like an old senile man. And who knows, you know, where
the company is going to be. It'll be worth trillions of
dollars at that point. But I'm not too sure it'll be,
you know, in 50 years I'll be like 80.
You probably don't want me running this ship, but Bitcoin
will just be TikTok. Nice block baby.
And so I think you buy Bitcoin for freedom, you buy Bitcoin for
security, you buy Bitcoin because it's guaranteed
bitcoins, guaranteed generational wealth.
I don't care what you have to say otherwise you're wrong.
It's guaranteed generational wealth and Bitcoin, well, micro
strategies, you know, Mara, these other groups that are
adopting generational wealth, they got a good shot at, you
know, progressing into generations, but you're still
reliant. There's still, there's still
single points of failure. I am a single point of failure
at Bitcoin. Well, 'cause if I make a wrong
decision, the company's going to suffer because of it.
Sailor is a single point of failure.
Coinbase in the micro strategies charade is a single point of
failure. Those exist in these games.
And so I think it's just a risk that you need to be comfortable
with before you jump in. They're attractive risks.
They're seemingly hedged in this day and age, but the risks
nonetheless. And I think that you got to go
into with the eyes open, Bitcoin is not Bitcoin well or is not
micro strategies or is not Mara or Microsoft or any of these
other companies. And I think that's the key
difference is just, you know, one is guaranteed generational
wealth, programmable protocol driven money.
The other is a company ran run by a handful of individuals that
are free to make the decisions that they think is best.
That's a good answer, but still an adx Adam, an adx bro, an adx
I'm. I'm I'm shooting for an ADX.
I'm going to make the MSTRI think.
Actually I. You're you you, but the Bitcoin
well stock has outperformed well.
We might be neck and neck now, but we were up 700% on the year
where they were up 560%. But again, like it's all, it's
all a risk calc. You mean you also you couldn't
buy $10 million worth of Bitcoin?
Well, stock because it'll pump it to like 10 bucks or something
dumb. And so like, yeah, there's just
all kinds of other considerations you need to make
when you think about, yeah, I don't even look at Bitcoin as an
investment. I look at Bitcoin as savings.
I think I've said that even on the show before.
Bitcoin is a freedom tool. Bitcoin is a tool for your
grandkids. Bitcoin is savings.
That's where your excess capital goes.
You know, you should take your gains from a Bitcoin, well, from
an MSTR and put it into Bitcoin. You should save it in Bitcoin.
But yeah, if you got some, if you got some money to go to the
Fiat, you know, the Fiat world, probably a Bitcoin company
running a Bitcoin standard is like a pretty good move in my
opinion. But I'm also in the biased
chair, so let's rock'n'roll. And yeah, I'd love to make the
MSTR gains look like flat, so we'll see.
Love it, love it guys. You're listening to simply
Bitcoin live. We just broke 500 live viewers
on YouTube and between all platforms.
We just broke 2000 live viewers. Help us break 200 likes within
the 1st 45 minutes of the show. I'm going to pass it on to
Brandon. Brandon, same question to you,
my friend. Why should people buy Bitcoin
instead of MicroStrategy or Bitcoin?
Well. Yeah, I mean, I, I really like
to Adam's answer there where Bitcoin to me is, is more
savings technology opposed to, you know, buying a stock.
There is, you know, the single point of failure.
There's all these different kinds of regulations that a
company can, you know, face Michael Saylor could, I don't
know, get in some hot water or something like that.
You know, I mean, they could be coming at him.
We even saw it last year. I think the state of Washington
tried to come at Michael Saylor for some tax evasion or
something along those lines. So I think like, you know, just
having that single point of failure is, you know, a big take
away from all this. But I also think that you should
support Bitcoin companies as well that are trying to live on
a quote UN quote Bitcoin standard, trying to help bring
along, you know, traditional finance.
And so, yeah, I mean, I think it, there's room for a micro
strategy Bitcoin well in your portfolio.
But I think, you know, if you're saving, there's nothing better
in on planet Earth that's ever been created than owning Bitcoin
and being able to hold that privately yourself, hold your
own keys and and kind of move it forward that way.
You know, there also is ways to diversify like we've kind of
gone over and I think, you know, it's definitely a benefit to
hold Bitcoin over, you know, a company's stock.
But there's always some room for for a little diversification to
say the very least. Love that.
So what I get from both Adam and Brandon is fuck Bitcoin and go
all in on MicroStrategy and Bitcoin.
Well, Opti, do you agree? Well, I mean, in hindsight,
looking at MicroStrategy games, it's kind of hard to, you know,
fight it. Like we were joking earlier,
like, man, we're idiot. We should have just bought
MicroStrategy and got all in like and, and honest, like I,
you know, in Full disclosure, I, I don't actually condone that,
but I have seen a lot of people kind of do that on Twitter.
They're just like, I'm selling all my Bitcoin and going micro
strategy. And when I saw the initial
grumblings of this, I'm like, man, that's a dumb move.
Like I would never do that. But you know, when you look at
the Fiat games, you're like, man, maybe we're the dumb ones
here, But no, I, I think what, what Adam is saying is really
like hitting the nail on the head because I don't, I don't
really like to trade. I don't want to trade.
Even though looking again, you know, hindsight's 2020 and
looking back at the micro MicroStrategy stock price,
you're like, man, we should have all probably bought some
MicroStrategy, but now it is feeling toppy.
And I'm like, I don't know how, how much higher can this go?
I don't want to buy the MicroStrategy top and sell some
Bitcoin for that. And I, I'm kind of like, you
know, jokingly, the 65 IQ type of person here.
I just like to save money under my mattress.
And to me, that is Bitcoin. And you know, as, as Adam was
saying, like the guaranteed generational wealth here is
Bitcoin. And so the game for me is just
stack as much Bitcoin as possible.
But hey, if you do have money in the Fiat system, like I think
it'd be dumb not to at least get some MicroStrategy or Bitcoin.
Well, exposure or merit exposure because like, what else are you
going to do? You're going to leave that money
in treasuries or, you know, you're going to go into NVIDIA,
which I think is an even bigger bubble than any of these other
stocks out there. Like I'm not convinced in the
whole AI craze that we're seeing.
To me that is feelinglikethe.com bubble.
But hey, NVIDIA is also doing pretty well and MicroStrategy is
outperforming all that. And so it you know, looking at
the paper gains, you're like, man, I should have bought some.
I definitely should have bought some.
But now I'm like, no, I'm I'm cool, you know, stay humble
stacks ads saving Bitcoin as much as possible because the the
game here is like what you know, Adam and I have stole from our
boy Nick can't mine is you don't stack stats for your first name.
You stack it for your last name. And holding Bitcoin long term,
we all know is the play. But it is very interesting that
we are in this little window of time right now where there is a
premium for, you know, Bitcoin well, or MicroStrategy,
whoever's doing, you know, the quote UN quote infinite money
glitch. Like there is a short time frame
and this could be years, like this could be a decade to play
out. But there is this period of time
right now where there is a lot of games to to capitalize on.
And hey, you know, if you are someone with money in the Fiat
system, I think it's a no brainer.
But I do want to pivot this a little bit, Nico, because I, I
really want to emphasize, we always talk about the Overton
window here. And I love seeing James Lavish
be on, you know, Charles Payne on Fox News basically, you know,
we, we've all heard these conversations in Bitcoin
podcast. I'm sure we all love James
Lavish. But for him to go on Fox News
and, and essentially talk about all the things we talk about is
really a testament to the idea of Bitcoin signal going
mainstream. And like how big of a firestorm
the micro strategy is speaking right now on Wall Street, Like
everyone has to be taking or paying attention to what
MicroStrategy is doing right now.
And I think this is all good for Bitcoin because as Adam was
saying again, like even Sailor is saying, like, no, the winning
move is just buying Bitcoin. Yes, my stock is doing well, but
that is the signal here. And more people are catching on
to this. And we'll see who else follows
suits by the end of this year and the beginning of next year
that hey guys, all you have to do is just buy Bitcoin and your
life gets better, you know? Your purchasing power increases
and that's the signal here that's going wildfire and
everyone's trying to wrap their heads around it.
You know, of course, Wall Street and traders, they love to
overcomplicate things. And you know, Sailor putting on
a master class out there, he's like, no, guys, just buy
Bitcoin. Like that's all you have to do
is buy Bitcoin. But yeah, hey, if you want to
buy my stock, like pump my bags too, but like all you have to do
is buy Bitcoin. So it is a testament to
something we've been saying on the show all year.
Bitcoin is crossing that Rubicon into mainstream consciousness.
And now everyone has to take Bitcoin seriously and you just
love to see it. I think 2025 is going to be an
incredible year for price action and let's just hope that we can
ensure the freedom go up aspects of Bitcoin while we do it. 100%
guys, we blew past our target. Help us now break 250 likes
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Stay tuned. We have a ton of content left
for you guys. We're going to be talking about
digital IDs, the digital Euro, and of of course, the unrealized
gains proposed in France. I feel like this unrealized
gains thing is is going to continue to accelerate as
predicted by the book The Sovereign individual.
You guys know that I love that book highly recommend it Got so
many things right got a couple things wrong, but I got a lot of
things right. So we're going to talk about all
that during the news segment and stay tuned for the culture too,
because we're going to talk to Brandon and Adam O'Brien about
what they're working on. All right, everybody, let's
let's get to the news. We'll be right back.
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Come with Opti. That I didn't say that YouTube
and that was a joke anyways, so let's get to today's news.
Dude, I don't know what the F is going on in Europe out there for
a month. And I felt it.
I felt the collectivism in the air.
They're just going down this path of tyranny.
They're going down this path of it just never ended well.
And here's I guess a a member of the parliament talking about the
upcoming digital ID and the upcoming digital euro, which
they renamed. It's no longer a central bank
digital currency. They did a bait and switch after
all the crap that we gave them on Twitter.
Now it's called a digital euro. Let's check it out.
I just left the room where we had the negotiations about the
digital identity and I have bad news.
The member States and the European Parliament came to an
agreement that means that probably not far from now the
digital identity will be affect in the European Union right
after this agreement, Commissioner Britton said.
Now we have the digital identity wallet, we have to put something
in it. And what he meant was the
digital Bureau, also known as the central bank digital
currency. And this is a very bad
development. They always promise us not to
make disconnection. And even a lot of experts,
privacy experts and security experts want also last week.
This is a very bad idea for our privacy and our freedom.
I just. Let go.
It's a horrific idea. It's a terrible idea.
It gives unelected bureaucrats a tremendous amount of power over
your life. And there's something called
soft power. So what does that mean?
That means that, for example, if you know how the credit score
system works in China, if you talk badly about the government,
if you post certain type of media on social media, it lowers
your credit score. When your or your social credit
score, when your social credit score goes down, you no longer
have access to the best schools, You no longer have access to
loans. So the reason it's called soft
power is that it's not directly coercing you to do certain
things. However, you're incentivized to,
you know, follow whatever the government wants you to do
because if not, you are penalized in some way.
And this is the danger of digital IDs and central bank
digital currencies. And I mean, they're telling you
they're, they're being very open about this in terms of the 15
minute cities, in terms of the things that they want society to
go along with. Problem is that, listen, without
a coercive mean, without a coercive mechanism to get people
to go along with these plans, I don't think people would
willingly do it. But if you have these types of
controls in place, as China has already proved, you can coerce
people into doing things even if it's not direct coercion.
That's why it's called soft power, which is really really
interesting. Also what's happening in France
is interesting as well. I don't have the English
translated version of this. Adam does speak French though,
but I'm not going to ask him to translate this.
I know. Put me on what happened here.
All right, let's do it $1.00 actual patrimon key contribute
like croissants economic 1 the passive constructive non
effective activity economic liquidity plasma financier
corporal looks the YouTube this active numeric tip bitcoin's.
Yeah, she basically just said sign up for bitcoinwell.com with
promo codes simply and you're gonna get opportunities to win a
million sats in the Bitcoin wishing well.
That was super strange. It was basically an ad read for
Bitcoin. Well.
That's so crazy, man. So other than other than about
promoting Bitcoin, well, Adam, what did she say?
Yeah, I got no idea to be honest.
All right, so so apparently, OK, so here's the community note and
and all that stuff that was funny.
So it says the French Senate debate proposes replacing the
real estate wealth tax with an UN quote, unproductive wealth
tax targeting dormant assets, unused real estate, luxury goods
and crypto. This preliminary vote with only
supporting senators present in the chamber is not in final
legislation. Now the, the, the interesting
thing about all this, ladies and gentlemen, is you know where
else they proposed an unrealized tax in the United States.
And the reason that I believe this is happening again, I, I
really, really believe in the, in the, in the, the thesis laid
out by the sovereign individual, they really laid out here, it
says Reese and Mog and David, the authors basically predicted
that the with the rise of this new cyberspace and consequently
cyber money, it will become harder for a nation state to
collect taxes from its citizens. When they say taxes, it's not
just income tax, it's also inflation tax.
Just keep that in mind. They compare the state to a
farmer keeping cows in a field to be milked.
But that quote, soon the cows will have wings.
They predict that for the government to collect taxes from
its citizens in this type of society, it would have to
violate human rights. Even traditionally civil
countries will have to resort and turn nasty.
I mean that kind of explains Operation Choke .2 point O of
the last 3 1/2 years. That explain explains the arrest
of CZ, of Arthur Hayes, of Rodger Ver.
I know he's very unpopular in the Bitcoin community of Julian
Assange, of Ross Ulbricht, right?
And all the while bankers like TD Bank got a record fine for
record money laundering and all they got was a fine.
So why is it that our industry is targeted and that industry is
not targeted? Well, our industry gives you
wings that that's essentially what it is.
And what I mean by that is if you take self custody of your
Bitcoin, to kind of tie it in with what we were talking about
earlier, kind of jokingly, you can't take your MicroStrategy or
your Bitcoin well stock with you, but you can take your
Bitcoin, well, your Bitcoin with you if you take self custody of
it. That's why Bitcoin in self
custody is one of the most empowering things you can do as
an individual. And as governments continue to
spend recklessly because that's what they've been doing.
And that is an indirect tax on their citizens more and more.
And those more and more of those citizens are going to want to
get up and leave. And you're seeing that with the
proposed exit tax in the Netherlands.
You're seeing this with, you know, this BS happening in
France. Politicians, instead of looking
at themselves in the mirror and saying, hey, you know, we don't
have a tax collecting problem, we have a spending problem.
They would rather double down on the tyranny, double down on the
control rather than spend less because if they stop, if they
spend less than all of a sudden and you don't get $100 million
worth Elizabeth Warren's anymore because that is not even
feasibly possible on a government salary.
So very interesting times. Very bullish on the United
States because of the recent election.
It's not perfect, Orange man is not perfect, but definitely an
improvement. Also very bullish about the
upcoming election in Canada. The polls look very favorable
and I still can't pronounce his last name, but you got Pierre
Pauliva or whatever going in and seems like he's the favorite to
win and he's very pro Bitcoin, all that stuff.
Also bullish on the province. Where at where Adam and my
brother from another mother BTC sessions is from Alberta.
It's just like freedom cut. It's like the Texas of Canada,
bro It's nuts. It's gnarly other than the white
walkers that come out in winter. But Adam what are your thoughts
on this? What is happening?
Paul Lier called polyver. Thank you polyver.
I I I tried. Anyways Adam what are your
thoughts on this? What the F is happening in
Europe? Like had they did they not learn
from the last 100 year? I feel like Europe, out of all
places, have just experienced some of the worst things in
history and they're just like, you know what, let's try it
again. Why not?
Bro I don't I don't know who wants this.
I don't know who is out there banging the drum pro CBDC and
I'm obviously in like this Bitcoin echo chamber, but I
don't understand which pocket of citizens this helps and and what
the mental gymnastics are to get them there.
Frankly, you know, to your last comment, you just said didn't
they learn from the last 100 years?
Yeah, they did and they're running the same playbook.
They want to enrich themselves at the mercy of their citizens.
They hate you. They do not want you to thrive.
And this is how they're going to do it.
This is how you maintain power. This is how you maintain wealth.
This is how you transfer and continue to siphon wealth from
the middle and lower class is you tax them to the Kingdom come
and then tell them it's their fault that they're overspending
and then and then, you know, gaslight them and give them, you
know, battered wife syndrome into staying.
And this is what the European Union is doing.
We saw this like you talked about soft power.
We saw this here in Canada, especially throughout Kovid
where it was like, you know, oh, don't worry, getting the vaccine
isn't, it's not illegal to not be vaccinated, but you can't go
to restaurants, you can't go to gyms, you can't go to school,
you can't go to hockey rinks. Like, you know, there was a
bunch of these. Don't worry, it is not illegal,
but you just cannot participate in society if you don't do it.
In lots of cases it was you're going to lose your job.
It's like, no, no, no, no, no, this is totally your choice.
You just lose your job. What's the what's the big deal?
It's like this, this soft power was was tried, tested and proved
to be true and valid. They're going to run this
playbook. This is why Bitcoin self custody
is so important. This is why, you know, here in
Canada, we have the highest per capita Bitcoin or rate coming
out of Canada simply because of how you know bad the
government's been for the last decade.
I suspect that the EU is going to start producing some
incredible Bitcoiners. I'm bullish on the probably like
25 to 30 year trend line for the EU will be pro freedom but it's
going to be a whack a pain before that man. 100% man and
and again, sometimes that's what that's what needs to happen in
order for people to wake up. You know, what's really
interesting too is you look at the Eastern European countries,
the countries that's right, communism, like they're some of
the most base countries on the face of the planet, you know?
So like, yeah, I mean, sometimes people just like sometimes just
people have to kind of learn the hard way for for them to wake
up. Brandon, I know you've been
covering this as a Bitcoin content creator, this ever
encroaching tyranny that's happening, happening to us.
What? What's your take on this?
What's your opinion? Yeah, man, I mean I it sounds.
Like that? Remember, we're on YouTube.
Yeah, all right, I'll make it. I'll make it snappy.
But you know it, it seems like the French have just been
eating, you know, some rotten croissants or somebody is shit
in their you know, what is it their caviar, everything like
that. I mean, it seems like the rulers
are just essentially, you know, trying to to keep the power as
Adam lined out. And I mean, you know, obviously
we had, you know, everything that happened during COVID in
Canada with the banks accounts freezing and everything like
that. But you know, you, you mentioned
already, you know we're, we're in a right?
Path. Somewhat with, you know, with
Donald Trump coming in. But at the same time, you know,
we're also very close to teetering on the edge here
where, you know, every time you go to a store, you're swiping
your credit card or something like that.
MasterCard, Visa, American Express, all these companies
already know where you're spending all of your money and
everything like that. And, you know, the access to
your bank account is not necessarily your money.
So I think more and more people, you know, have seen what has
happened in the past four years and it's just accelerated the
growth of a lot of people moving towards Bitcoin.
So I think that that's going to continue here.
Sometimes you just need to, I guess revert in in the wrong
direction in order to wake some people up.
And I think a lot of people, you know, sacrifice freedom for
more, you know, just ease of use of things, right.
So I think it's going to revert the other way.
I think the French and, you know, other European countries
are trying to revert, but people are going to start to to vote
with their feet, whether that's, you know, move somewhere else,
work in a digital economy and just continue moving that
direction. So I think, you know, we saw
Italy try to propose this our higher taxed on on Bitcoin and
crypto to a lesser extent, and they immediately reverse that.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see something like that here
with the with the French as well as as many people just, you
know, simply just move away or, you know, are trying to trying
to get around it. So I think that's going to
continue. And I think the policy makers
are going to have to wake up when when people start fleeing
and trying to find the most free places to live and and work and
store their capital. A. 100% And that's the thesis,
right? That's the thesis from the
sovereign individual, right? And that overtime time, as more
and more people kind of are nimble and they like go through
jurisdiction and they go to the jurisdiction that treats them
best, over time, that becomes a forcing function on government
to see citizens rather than tax cattle.
They they would, they would see them as customers instead.
Instead, That's the thesis. You kind of see it on the state
level here in the United States, right?
Where, you know, New York and California were very hostile
during the pandemic years to businesses and individual
freedoms. And you saw a giant exodus of
people coming to Texas and Florida.
So anyways, guys, we're going to move on to the culture segment
to talk to Brandon and Adam. Let's check it out.
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Hi everybody, I do want to give a shout out to our sponsor, Bit
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It's going to be a great time and we hope to see you guys
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very special shout out to our guest today, Adam O'Brien.
Thank you so much for joining us, guys.
Go check out bitcoinwell.com today and go check out their
ticker. It is a publicly traded company
in Canada. Their ticker goes by the name of
BTCW. Again, BTCW.
Adam, thank you so much for joining us.
Thanks guys. Mad love.
Always good to be here. And remember everyone just got
to stay sovereign, stack stats, stay sovereign.
I'll catch you guys later. Thanks, Adam.
Appreciate it. All right everybody, we are
going to pivot the conversation to our special guest today,
fellow Bitcoin content Crit. Do you want to do switching
Opti? Thank you fellow content creator
and guys, go definitely subscribe to his channel Green
Candle Green. How do you How do you say it?
It's you know, somebody on Twitter's got green candle, so I
had to go put an IT at the end. But it's just green candle on
YouTube just and yeah, search green candle investments.
You'll be able to find me anywhere.
Awesome. So talk to us a little bit about
your channel. What's it about?
What is the general feeling about it?
What type of interviews do you do?
What do you highlight? Obviously you're a Bitcoiner, so
it's Bitcoin focused. What's your take, Brandon?
Yeah, I'm trying to build the, I like to describe it as the
barstool of finance and Bitcoin. So I have a lot of podcasts,
some great guests. I interviewed Maya Parabo not
too long ago at Adopting Bitcoin, where I saw Nico and
Opti, but she was getting a tattoo of the Bitcoin supply
formula. So I like to do some wild things
there, filming a lot of, you know, vlogs behind the scenes of
these conferences and other things like that as well.
So yeah, man, just like to have fun with it.
I cover macro topics from real estate to traditional finance
all through Bitcoin. So trying to bring a little bit
of flair to it and have some fun with it just like you guys do
here. So yeah, thank you guys so much
for having me. And it's, it's been a blast to,
to come on here and, and RIP it with you guys for a little bit.
Absolutely. So what has, you know, what have
you learned making content over these last couple of years?
Bitcoin has accelerated, its popularity has accelerated.
You know, I've seen you at a lot of these conferences.
What's your opinion? We're still so early as, as
Michael Saylor said it, man. I mean, I think, you know, you
go to these conferences, I've seen them grow over the years,
but you just, you know, you still talk to your normie
friends. I mean, I was telling my friends
earlier this year that I thought Bitcoin would hit 100K by the
end of the year. And I have receipts of them
chirping me when it was like 50-60 K, saying, oh, yeah,
Bitcoins gonna hit 100K. And then now they're starting to
come around a little bit. But I'm still only getting, you
know, a couple text messages here or there, you know,
depending on the day now that bitcoins kind of floating off,
everybody thinks it's, you know, dead, whatever they miss the
boat. So I still think we're we're
very early when it comes to Bitcoin and I think we're
turning an edge here a little bit.
But I think with, you know, nation state adoption, we've
got, you know, more companies. We just highlighted Bitcoin.
Well, we got Microsoft, we got micro strategy, all these big
players coming into the game. I think it's just a matter of
time. So congratulations to everybody
here listening. We've beat the US, We beat, you
know, a lot of these giant companies to finding Bitcoin.
And, you know, I think it's just a matter of time until everybody
finds that the orange beacon of light and flees to Bitcoin.
I love that. I love that man.
Also breaking news, Donald Trump reportedly picks pro crypto Paul
Atkins for SEC chair to replace Gary Gensler.
What that means? It's going to be an absolute
altcoin Bitcoin extravaganza trying to be nice and inclusive
next year. And you're going to see all
types of things being bought and sold.
And yeah, anyways, but you should stick to Bitcoin instead
of trying to, you know, buy all that alternative stuff anyways.
Opti, what's your take on this, man?
I know that you're a fan of Brandon.
You've watched this content. What's up?
Yeah, well, I actually kind of just want to ask Brandon, cuz
you are interviewing a lot of Bitcoiners and you were just
kind of talking about normies and you know, let's give some
alpha to the viewers here. Obviously most of the viewers
are Bitcoiners, but kind of in a broad sense, like what do you
think is the big idea playing out right now?
I know you cover macro markets, like what do you see the
normies? Obviously it's about Bitcoin,
but like what do you think is the one take away for everyone
that they could go out there and spread and and tell like their
friends and family like this is what's happening and this is,
you know, the basic mechanics of what's going on.
So from your experience with interviewing everyone, you know,
your macro experience, background, obviously your
Bitcoin experience, like what do you think is the big idea
playing out right now in the world?
Yeah. So I think it's just the the
initial start here where we had the ETFs being launched at the
beginning of the year. We have, you know, nation states
now starting to FOMO into Bitcoin.
And I think, you know, everybody is getting more and more of
those touch points as to, you know, what Bitcoin is.
And then they're getting a little bit more curious and
starting to dive into what Bitcoin is a little bit as well.
Obviously number go up. You know, we all love to to buy
the cheap sats, but let's face it, that's a big orange pillar
for many people. It brings a lot of attention to
it. But you know, with all these
products and services coming along, I interview a lot of
people that are hedge fund kind of traditional, you know,
investors maybe real estate or anything.
They understand the hard assets, but they were very skeptical on
Bitcoin at first. I actually received my first
text messages from traditional finance Bros now that are all
into Bitcoin. So I think, you know, they're
understanding that this is bringing a lot of alpha and it's
just the first step, right? Whether they're buying in the
ETF or they're buying, you know, micro strategy or a Bitcoin well
stock or something like that to get some exposure.
They're now starting to do research into what Bitcoin is in
the freedom technology of Bitcoin.
So I think like Michael Saylor said, we're still very early.
But I think the overall thesis of Bitcoin, you know, first
starting off as a inflation hedge or something to kind of
keep your wealth, earn, you know, properly restore your time
is playing out now. And I think like as we go along,
this is going to get more and more to, you know, getting to a
hyperbychronized world. And I think, you know, we're
we're still very early. And this is something that is
that is going to make us all look very smart here at the end.
But yeah, I mean, I like this this comment here that
Thanksgiving dinner was a little bit more pleasant for us this
this time around opposed to last year.
So I think that's going to keep continuing.
And I think 2025 is going to be a very, very big year for us as
bitcoiners. Beautiful, Beautiful.
Yeah, I completely agree. It's incredibly exciting.
I think it's going to be an explosive year.
I think people still have a little bit of PTSD from the last
cycle of 2021, which I believe was a cut short a little bit.
It looks like maybe I'm speaking too soon, but 2025 surely sure
does remind me of that 20/16/2017 type of vibe.
We don't know. We don't know the future.
I'm speculating, but we shall see.
Opti, any thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I again, I'm, I
want to pick Brandon's Brandon's mind here because we do cover a
lot of macro stuff here and one of the biggest trends and we
actually got that tweet yesterday from Trump about BRICS
nations, you know, leaving the dollar.
So what's your thoughts on the idea of countries trying to move
away from, you know, US bonds and and that trend going on
right now? And obviously the mistake of
them not going to Bitcoin, but we saw a trend all of this year
of, of countries moving away from the dollar, at least
posturing that they're moving away from the dollar now I they
might be getting threatened and so that might change.
So what's your thoughts on all that stuff working out right
now? Yeah, so the global economy has
all been kind of intertwined. And the US has always been kind
of I, I in a sense, like Donald Trump has realized that we've
been getting screwed here in the US with a lot of our foreign
adversaries and then been slowly inching away from the dollar.
I mean, we've seen massive amounts inflation.
Everybody listening here knows that inflation is not under
wraps in the USI mean, one of my favorite websites is
govflation.com, where you can see how they used to calculate
the CPI, compared it to how they're presenting it right now.
And I believe in August it was over 10% still when, you know,
the CPI being reported was 2.5. So everybody globally is
realizing like, hey, there's massive amounts of money
printing that happened over these past couple years.
Yeah, that's a great website. So if you Scroll down there a
little bit, you can see the graph of CPI and just see how
they've been manipulating it. So you can see towards the end
that it's still very high over that 10% and we peaked nearly at
20%. So I think countries around the
globe are are realizing this and a lot of them are not benefiting
from the devaluing of the dollar.
And so that's why the BRICS nations have started to move
away. Donald Trump's trying to bring
the strength back to the dollar, which I do appreciate.
But on the flip side of it, he's also going to want to lower
interest rates, which is another form of QE.
He's, you know, when he was president in 2016 to 2020, we
had interest rates at near 0. That's why we saw a lot of, you
know, these crypto tokens that, you know, Nikko was alluding to
earlier pop up left and right. You know, we saw a lot of
countries, you know, our companies pop up from zero to
multi billion dollar evaluations.
So I think there needs to be a little bit cost of capital and
hopefully, you know, whoever is leading the Fed will not, you
know, get us down to that 0% interest rate.
But I think, you know, overall countries have kind of felt this
for the past four years. The the inflation is not under
wraps. And I think Trump is trying to
bring the strength back into the dollar.
Now. We'll see how these next four
years go. Hopefully, you know, it's not
crypto bonanza here from 24 to to 2028, but I think that it's
all signs that are looking to a positive for the US and for the
dollar, which in turn would I think help Bitcoin along the
way. Kind of give it some time to
develop a lot of you know, more technology and everything like
that to get us closer to a hyper bitcoinized world without
crashing and burning the dollar right away, right,
Accelerationist that I know some are some are here probably
listening, but the accelerationist want us to go
the other way. I think that would just be bad
for everybody. So hopefully it'll prolong that.
Yeah, OK. And and hey, we're, we're about
to get into 2025, so I don't want you to speculate too much,
but you know, you've been in Bitcoin for a couple years,
you're making Bitcoin content, you're talking to some of the
smartest Bitcoiners every single day and just looking at the
landscape for Bitcoin because, you know, Nico and I, we have
these conversations all the time on the show as well.
But from another content creators vantage point, is this
time different? Because I think that is the real
question that we're all asking ourselves.
Is this time different? Are we entering maybe a new
cycle or new era in Bitcoin? So what's your thoughts on that,
Brandon? I think without a doubt, you
know, Nico said he felt like 2021 got cut kind of short.
And I and I agree with that on the last cycle because you know,
last cycle we had FTX, we had Celsius, we had block fly, a lot
of these bad players issuing out paper Bitcoin.
Now, I'm not condoning the ETFs to go and buy them.
They're a little bit more regulated than, you know, the
free and open market that was, you know, FTX and and Block Fi
and everything like that. So, you know, they'll hopefully
not be issuing as much paper Bitcoin, which I think kind of
suppressed the price last time. So I think with the tops going
to blow off, we have a lot of FOMO money sitting on the
sidelines here from traditional finance, billions of dollars
literally being flowed into these ETF products weekly.
And now we have the nation state FOMO kind of coming along.
I mean, you guys have highlighted here on the show,
you know, we talked about Canada, we got the US potential
state level at the US too, talking about strategic reserves
for individual states. Not only that, but also
federally, we've got a lot of countries flipping the script on
it. We got Brazil the other day
announcing it. We got a presidential candidate
of Poland. We've got China reversing it,
you know, reversing their stance on Bitcoin and crypto.
So I think it's nation state FOMO, it's traditional financial
money and and retail on top of all that where previous cycles
was just really retail. So now we're seeing so much more
money being flowed into Bitcoin and I think the top's going to
blow off. I mean, I'm extremely bullish
going into next year. And I don't know sitting here
how you could possibly not be, to be honest with you.
Well, wait, wait, could we get a price prediction here?
I know, I know. We try not to do those even
though we do them. So Brandon, you know, let's
let's end the show with with a just a spicy price prediction.
Where do you think we're going this cycle?
What are you seeing and like what are the metrics that you're
watching? Yeah, 100%.
So I mean, I think at a minimum, I think the floor for next year
is at 250 K at the very least. Now with that, I think we can
also see it skyrocketing up to 850, maybe even touching close
to a million a coin with the nation state FOMO.
So I think it'll be absolutely crazy.
I mean, last cycle we had, you know, money printing that raised
it up a bunch. But on this cycle we'll have
interest rates lowering and the possibility of money printing
that will have to be more than last time.
I mean, imagine all of that QE being dumped into Bitcoin, I
mean 2:50 at a minimum. And then maybe we're pushing on
Amelia Coin and you know, we'll be all dancing on our our
private jets and yachts and everything like that next year,
man. 11 Last question from from me, and then Niko can chime in.
So yeah, someone take the soundboard away from Niko.
Geez, we have the meme that's been going around.
Excuse me. And I know a lot of other
sports. All right, got to mute you got
to mute you. OK, so we have the meme right
now going around in the Bitcoin space a lot of like diminishing
returns and we've talked about that constantly.
And also a lot of Bitcoiners do have PTSD from 2021 cycle, but
add that with, do you think maybe with all of the influx
capital that we're seeing, it might not necessarily be
diminishing returns, but I think it might dampen the volatility
on the downside. So one, are you believing in the
diminishing returns thesis and do you still think that we might
be seeing, you know, 7080% drawdowns in this next cycle?
Like what, what's your thinking on the volatility of the Bitcoin
price? Because I've, you know, Full
disclosure, I'm kind of been like Niko's been diminishing
returns all year and I'm like, no, you're a bear now.
I'm kind of flipping it. And I, I think what we might be
seeing is the volatility is going to get dampen on, on the
downside. And I think that would be super
bullish for the Bitcoin price. Yeah.
So I think it's all about like user behavior at this point.
So I mean, I think that when nation states start to come in,
that will help with the diminishing returns.
But on the flip side of it, the traditional finance arm, I don't
necessarily think those guys are going to be the diamond hand
Bros, you know, really holding on to Bitcoin.
So I think that, you know, nation state stacking is very
bullish for what you guys are saying.
But on the flip side of it, the traditional finance is not.
So I mean, I think that with the more money, any printing that
we're getting, the interest rates lowering, we'll still have
the volatility here. And I don't think this is going
to be the last super cycle unfortunately, because we're
still in a very Fiat based world, right?
I mean, we lined out Trump, you know, trying to strengthen the
dollar and I think he's going to prolong us from getting to maybe
a hyper bitcoinized world, which I think is in in turn a benefit,
right? Everything's not crashing and
burning and, you know, Bitcoin taking off and you know, then we
can't even buy eggs or anything like that.
So I think, you know, we're still gonna have those, those
waves and we're still gonna have to ride the ups and downs,
unfortunately. And but but I mean, it'll also
be more of a stacking opportunity.
And I think it'll bring in more Bitcoin bulls that will, you
know, develop the the huddle mentality and start to, you
know, stack more and more coins. I mean, and there's gonna be
more Michael Saylors that come along as well on this cycle too.
So you know, I think with every Bitcoin bear, there's probably 2
bulls that come in at the very least, right?
I mean, we've seen option products start to come in as
well. I don't know if you guys have
talked about that on the show, but I mean, I think there's like
4 buys for every sale on the on the options or four puts for
every call. So you know, I think that, you
know, more and more people are coming in and there's going to
be more bulls, but there's still the bears, the skeptics out
there. I don't know if we're going to
fully convince them all just yet because I mean, even now we see
the run up from 60 to 95 to 99 ish K and we're floating, you
know, the 99 to 95 ish K right now and we still haven't cracked
that 100 and. We got people who are.
Refusing to buy in right now because they think they've.
Missed the boat. So I think it's just, you know,
it'll bring in more, more bulls. But we still got some some bears
that are going to learn the lesson here soon enough.
But maybe not all of them come in this cycle. 100% And I also
do want to give like I like. So for example, Senor Gringo,
Papi says, I say 100 to 150 K to be realistic.
And then SAT wise janks, it says honestly, I'm with PAPI 140 to
170 K, especially if we don't close the CME gap AT77K.
If not, that's our next bottom target.
OK, here's the thing. That is what I'm hearing from
everybody, right? The the thing with Bitcoin is
that it does the exact opposite of what everyone thinks.
So we're either going to the low side, which means we peaked
already and we're just in it for a very long drawn out bear
market. I don't believe that's the case
or we are going to go a lot higher because the general
consensus on Bitcoin Twitter is what you guys are saying
150K200K. That's what I'm seeing from
everybody. If history is a teacher every
single time Bitcoin does the exact opposite of what the
general consensus is in terms of price.
So the reason you guys are saying those price targets is
because of 20/21/2021 everyone and their mother thought 100K
guaranteed. We peaked at 69 K.
It was a huge let down. However it was the exact
opposite of what everyone anticipated.
What I'm seeing this time around is that same consensus, but to
the to the downside. So again, what happens is if
most people believe that bitcoins peaking AT150K200K,
they're going to sell. And what's going to happen is
Bitcoin goes to 500 K and you're going to be like, oh, and you're
going to buy back in at 300 because you're going to think
it's going to go get run forever and then it's going to crash and
you're going to get wrecked. This is what happens every
single time. Samson Mao posted a clip of our
interview when he came on the show and he essentially coins
the term Bitcoin takes the path of maximum pain.
Maximum pain, right? So if you're anticipating a
price target, if you are, you know, saying it for the Bitcoin
does the exact effing opposite. Always, always the opposite,
which is why it's 99% of the time better idea.
Stay humble stack stats stay solvent planned for the long
term. Should have bought
MicroStrategy. Oops next time.
But anyways guys, this was simply Bitcoin live for December
3rd, 2024. I'm your host Nico is my
legendary Co host Optimus Fields and our special guest today
Brandon from green candle. Go check out his YouTube channel
and his Twitter for some amazing Bitcoin content.
We'll see you guys on the next one.
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