1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 You think we'll see $10 million Bitcoin with today's purchasing 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,240 power anytime soon? I don't see how we don't see 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:10,000 10,000,020 million like we already have a 10 million, you 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,720 know, yen Bitcoin, right? How far off are we in pesos? 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,840 Like are we a 2X or A3 XOA in pesos like 10 million? 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,640 Yeah, why so bearish man? Like how about 50 million? 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,080 How about 100? It is inevitable wealth will 8 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:26,160 transfer to the scarcest most valuable asset. 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,480 There is literally 0 things on planet Earth more scarce and 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,440 valuable than Bitcoin. What happens when most of 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,840 society comes to the realization that like wait a second, if I 12 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,720 take self custody of my Bitcoin, I have the power? 13 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,680 Bitcoin is the gunpowder. It's the better version of 14 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,520 someone else having access and control of your money. 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,000 And so those that do not embrace that will perish. 16 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:52,240 The politicians are in a state right now, or they print, or 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,640 they 'cause, you know, mass catastrophe and failure. 18 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,280 The only way out of this is by holding an asset that's better 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,800 than the sinking ship. The sinking ship is the money 20 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,239 that everybody currently, the entire system is working on a 21 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:11,520 sinking ship right now. Yeah, it's 2025. 22 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,800 It's been an absolutely crazy year in Bitcoin. 23 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,320 I mean, start of the year, I think the rest of the year is 24 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:18,880 going to be absolutely incredible. 25 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,400 Today I'm joined with the CEO and founder of Bitcoin. 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,160 Wow, man, thank you so much for joining me. 27 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,240 It's some of the Bitcoin. IRL It's great to be here, man. 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:27,960 This place is amazing. Yeah, dude, thank. 29 00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:30,440 You so much for coming to my side of the town. 30 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,240 I really appreciate it. I hope you've been enjoying 31 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,720 yourself so far. And it's been a wild year in 32 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:36,920 Bitcoin, man. I think. 33 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,240 I think it's underperformed to a lot of people's expectations. 34 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:44,720 Yeah, man, I think Bitcoin has a way of taking expectations, 35 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:47,520 putting them into like a meat grinder, grinding it up really 36 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,240 good, smashing it down and then spitting out something else. 37 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,240 And I think that that's what we've seen so far in 25. 38 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,640 I think obviously we expected SBR, we got SBR, but it turns 39 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,240 out, you know, Bitcoiners maybe didn't really want SBR, They 40 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,920 wanted a number to go up. And so we aren't getting that 41 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,440 that nice release that we were expecting from all the positive 42 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,640 sentiment because it's not coupled with price action. 43 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:13,360 I think that's showing how early we are. 44 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,600 We are so incredibly early in Bitcoin in people's 45 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,440 understanding of what Bitcoin is. 46 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,960 And I think that people like you and I look at this and we 47 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,480 texted, it's like, hey, cheap sats, like we get to stack more 48 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,640 and this is amazing. And I think that broadly, 49 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:31,160 probably we aren't seeing that as much people are are hindered 50 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,520 by the, you know, the lack of an immediate number go up and so 51 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,680 underperformed, yes. That said, though, I mean, my 52 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,320 goodness, Can you imagine in 25 years how it's going to, you 53 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,480 know, in, in 25 years when you know the US government or 54 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,960 whomever is paying off their debt, you know, how many 55 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,200 hundreds of trillions of dollars in debt at that point? 56 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,720 I. I think Bitcoiners are spoiled 57 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,200 though, Adam, because like I don't think we're used to that 58 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,440 25 year time scale, right? We all talk about low time 59 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,520 preference, but especially from your, your era in your class of 60 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,200 2013, right? I'm class of 2016. 61 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,680 Back then the volatility happened to, you know, it 62 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,440 happened to be a little bit more positive, right? 63 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,600 And things happen to happen in a much shorter time frame. 64 00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:16,360 They're a little bit more extended or that's what it seems 65 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,920 like, right? I still think we're going to 66 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:21,200 get, you know, what Samsung Mao calls the Omega candle. 67 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,040 Dude I actually have a bed out right now with someone on 68 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,360 Twitter. I forget who it is but 100K 69 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,200 SAT's that will see 500K in 2025. 70 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,760 I'm like I'm Bolt. Hard. 71 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,880 I think that too. I mean, I've been making it like 72 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,440 full caps on Twitter, like just tweeting out just because of the 73 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:37,520 SPR stuff. Yeah. 74 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,080 Like, I think the initial executive order, a lot of people 75 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,640 were underwhelmed because it included, you know, a lot of the 76 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:44,360 alt coins. Yeah. 77 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,400 He renamed that though recently. I know Trump came through like 78 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,400 he freed Ross ended operation choke point 2.0. 79 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,640 The strategic Bitcoin Reserve is only a strategic Bitcoin was 80 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,360 what? But what do you think like what 81 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,240 were the back end games there where he's he's fully like what 82 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,240 did he had XRP in there? He had yet ETH he had you know 83 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,760 is there is little tweet was only you know these garbage 84 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,560 coins. So I kind of have some like kind 85 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,320 of the backroom talk. Essentially what was happening 86 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,000 at that moment was that there was a tremendous amount of 87 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,839 lobbying pressure from the XRP lobby and. 88 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:18,839 People. People were decentralized. 89 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,519 Exactly right. So decentralized it needs a 90 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:24,840 lobby and a CEO, but that's what was happening in the background 91 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,720 and a lot of people didn't see that and what I what I posted 92 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,320 was essentially like, look guys like as Bitcoiners, we 93 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,920 completely underestimated the altcoin lobby. 94 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,000 However, it doesn't matter because everything goes to zero 95 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,240 against Bitcoin anyways. Yeah, naturally so. 96 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,160 But I mean, I think it was like 3D chess. 97 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,840 Like it was like, you know, kind of teasing them saying of course 98 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,120 we're going to include Cardano and XRP and ETH. 99 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,040 And at the end it was Bitcoin only and Brad Garlin House had 100 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,800 to sit on the meeting, which was absolutely hilarious. 101 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,560 What do you think is the significance of the SBR? 102 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,280 Like do you do you think? Because like clearly no short 103 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:58,920 term significance whatsoever, But I think long term I 104 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,600 completely agree with you. I would not be surprised that by 105 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,600 the end of the year we saw 500 K Bitcoin. 106 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,360 Yeah, man, I think significance of SPR is challenging for me, 107 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,000 like for, you know, I'm a Canadian. 108 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,280 So watching this, my first kind of feeling is jealousy. 109 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:17,000 I'm infinitely jealous that, you know, once again, the Americans 110 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,880 have seemingly better everything, including a 111 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,520 government willing to adopt and support Bitcoin. 112 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,040 You know, as, as you know, and many people probably know like 113 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,800 I'm permanently debanked in Canada. 114 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,840 I do not have the luxury of a checking account. 115 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,960 My wife is missing bank accounts. 116 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,520 And so operation choke point is really the thing that I think 117 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,960 is, is very, very meaningful. And I think the the true benefit 118 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,880 of the SPR moves away from just number go up and pay off the 119 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,680 debt. There's probably Fiat games that 120 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:46,920 can be played to pay off the debt. 121 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,320 I mean, Japan is is playing them poorly, but is playing them. 122 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:53,720 I think that the the actual benefit is that Bitcoin 123 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,720 entrepreneurs now have comfort that in America they're going to 124 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,760 be maybe not looked after, but at least not targeted. 125 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,440 Like I am actively targeted in Canada. 126 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,600 There is a massive target on my chest. 127 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,000 Bitcoin entrepreneur for now 12 years. 128 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:09,360 The government does not like that. 129 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,280 The banks do not like that. You know, there's a reason you 130 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:14,240 and I were chatting even last night like Bitcoin or Canada has 131 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,360 some of the the most per capita Bitcoiners on the face of the 132 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:18,160 Earth. Oh, it's crazy. 133 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,000 And it's just because we have to be and, and like, but we're not 134 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,800 getting a new wave of Bitcoiners right now. 135 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,680 And it's only because it's so difficult to be a Bitcoin 136 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,360 entrepreneur in Canada versus now with the SPR and you know, 137 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,680 no more choke point, et cetera, et cetera. 138 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,160 The government completely legitimizing it here. 139 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,360 I think that's the only thing the government needs to do is 140 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,920 just get out of the way. And, you know, if you're going 141 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,320 to have an opinion, make it based in facts. 142 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,360 And I think that the Trump admin has done that pretty well. 143 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,120 And the SPR just adds to that. So I would say, yeah, it's just 144 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,080 going to increase competition and and benefits for 145 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,560 entrepreneurs here. And, and I agree because I 146 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,280 remember like last year, you know, there was moments in time 147 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:57,640 where I was like, Oh my God, you know, like I might have to move 148 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,680 to El Salvador because Operation Choke .2 point O is getting 149 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:01,760 scary. And all the things that were 150 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,160 happening behind the scenes that they weren't admitting to. 151 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,600 Yeah, like they were actively de banking people. 152 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,000 Now I want to circle back to what you were saying about you 153 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,160 being debanked. How do you get debanked and 154 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,880 managed to run a publicly trained Bitcoin company. 155 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,080 How does that work? Yeah, man, it's not easy. 156 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,000 Our story of going public actually was pretty interesting. 157 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,520 When we went public, it took us almost a year and a half, or 158 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,120 just over a year and a half, and it cost us like over 2,000,000 159 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,720 bucks just to do it. Typically it should take four, 160 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,240 maybe six months and shouldn't cost even $1 million. 161 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,880 And, and that was strictly because of the Bitcoin. 162 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,760 And then because we're non custodial, like the securities 163 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,200 commission's just couldn't understand that we never had 164 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,720 custody of funds. And so it, it was, it was 165 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,040 confusing. But I think like I'm building a 166 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,520 product that I need in, in Canada. 167 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,880 And so I live on Bitcoin and it's kind of, it's kind of just 168 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,840 the only way that you can live. It's like when I talk about 169 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,960 Bitcoin in self custody being some, you know, unconfiscatable 170 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,000 money that only that only you can have access to. 171 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,400 I'm speaking from experience and I, and I think now more than 172 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,800 ever, like in Canada especially, we saw the trucker protest a 173 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,200 couple years ago. We watched people actively 174 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,160 losing banks. Like there's horror stories that 175 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,480 people just donated 50 bucks because, oh, my uncle's a 176 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,520 trucker and I wanted to donate 50 bucks to the truckers, not 177 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,360 knowing the political, you know, turmoil happening behind the 178 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,200 scenes. Then, you know, the single mom, 179 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,360 her bank is, is shut down and, and she can't pay her rent and 180 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:27,640 she's got eviction notices coming in. 181 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,960 The power is getting turned off. And it's like really, really 182 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,360 dire consequences because someone has the kill switch on 183 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,640 your bank and it's it's catastrophic. 184 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,960 And so, you know, in Canada, especially having ways to move 185 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,120 money around without the, the government, you know, saying yes 186 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,520 or no is super is super important. 187 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,800 And so how do like, how do I do it is literally with Bitcoin, 188 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,000 it's Bitcoin and self custody. And I'm probably lucky that 189 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,200 there were no like when, you know, 2013, there was no 190 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,920 custodial wallets, there was no place to leave your coins. 191 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,360 I just kind of was forced, like my first Bitcoin wallet was a 192 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,400 node that was the only one that existed. 193 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,480 And then we got like this, you know, jankyblockchain.com app, 194 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,760 which then hilariously Apple banned. 195 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,080 And I remember phones with the blockchain app post Apple ban, 196 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,400 like I was not updating my phone. 197 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,480 I was like, this is sacred. Like I've got this Bitcoin on 198 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,920 here. I I'm not going to lose this 199 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,200 app. And so it's just, I mean, I'm 200 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,280 kind of just tearing away from the like original question 201 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:32,320 maybe, but the the ethos of the only thing that has protected me 202 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,160 and my family and to be able to live and, and you know, buy a 203 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,200 vehicle and a house and this stuff is strictly Bitcoin and 204 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:40,520 self custody. That's the only thing that's 205 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:41,360 been reliable for. No. 206 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,560 And I think you, you really, you show that in the way that you've 207 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:48,640 built your company, which in from my perspective, I think 208 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,200 it's the much harder way because the easier way would be to build 209 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,920 a platform that allows individuals to keep the Bitcoin 210 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,840 on the platform, right? It makes it much more accessible 211 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,400 for let's say someone that has spent most of their Fiat, most 212 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,160 of their life in the Fiat matrix. 213 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,240 And they're just like the idea of taking self custody of their 214 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,640 wealth and enabling their independence in the process is 215 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,480 such an alien concept to them. You decided to do it the right 216 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,400 way, right, which sets up the right incentives right from the 217 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:17,920 beginning. For anyone who doesn't know 218 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,680 Bitcoin well, is a self custody by default on ramp. 219 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,280 So essentially what that means is you can't, you can't buy 220 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,120 Bitcoin on the exchange if you don't intend to take self 221 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,560 custody. You guys don't hold people's 222 00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:31,360 Bitcoin. Why do you decide to do it that 223 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:32,800 way? Because I, I, I feel like the, 224 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,960 the critique is like men, like you're essentially you're, 225 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,280 you're not targeting the, the, the biggest, the biggest 226 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,640 potential customer base. Why did you decide to make it 227 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,920 the right way, which is self custody by default? 228 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,320 Yeah. I mean, I'd love to say because 229 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,880 I like wanted to have, you know, this altruistic vision of 230 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,720 philosophy. I think it was just the only way 231 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:56,320 that made sense to me at the time. 232 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,000 Like, you know, starting from there and then we start, we 233 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,840 start with with Bitcoin ATMs and then which are just self custody 234 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:02,960 by nature. And then we wanted to bring that 235 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,240 same experience to the online portal. 236 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,760 And I think that at that time when we launched the online 237 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:12,880 portal, I wanted the Bitcoin ATM experience to come online. 238 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,600 I don't think I fully acknowledged it was going to be 239 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,920 that much harder in my mind. Who like, as someone who'd been 240 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,560 self custodying for a decade at that point, it was kind of like, 241 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:24,320 Nah, this is, you know, like, you know, how we, we sometimes 242 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,480 forget how early we are. And you, you know, you look at 243 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,120 the bus and it's like, none of these people know like you've 244 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,200 got this big secret. And I was a little bit naive in 245 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,360 in thinking that you know, 30-40 million Canadians would be 246 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,040 willing and and able to self custody funds you regret. 247 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,480 Your your decision. No, no, no, not, not one bit. 248 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,440 I think knowing what I know now, I would still make the the same 249 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,400 decision simply because what you said it's this is the only way 250 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,080 that you should be building like it is. 251 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,440 Uncle Ben says like with great power comes great 252 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,320 responsibility. Like we have a great power. 253 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,720 We have the power of knowledge. We know that Bitcoin in self 254 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,880 custody is the better way. We know that it is. 255 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,720 And like the safest way, we know that it is the only way. 256 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,400 There was actually, there was someone yesterday on Twitter was 257 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,320 talking about he had the government, he has 135 Bitcoin 258 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,400 that he has in self custody the government wants Yep. 259 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,720 And they're finding, they're finding about $10 a day, 10 260 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,320 grand a day. And my response to that is like 261 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,400 Bitcoin in self custody works because that's not even going to 262 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,600 court. Yeah, if that's in a custodian, 263 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,720 if that's in any Bitcoin exchange, it's just handed over. 264 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,240 Government is like, hey, by the way, here's the order, Here's 265 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,000 the guy's name, here's this SSN. Like I want the and I think. 266 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,840 The government takes that for granted and I think that there's 267 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,080 still this there's still this perception in people that the 268 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,240 government has that power. But yeah, what happens when most 269 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,120 of society comes to the realization that like, wait a 270 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,240 second, if I take self custody of my Bitcoin, I they have the 271 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,240 power, right? I think things are really going 272 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:50,840 to change. That's the. 273 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,080 Superpower. It's I've said it many times, 274 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,640 it's not number go up. And I and I think if you want 275 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,280 number go up only like frankly, like don't even self custody, 276 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,880 just like stick to your number go up platform. 277 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,200 You're like Fiat Bitcoin exchange, custodial, like just 278 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,280 whatever, it's fine. You don't get to kind of where 279 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:09,800 the Bitcoin ethos. You don't care about 280 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,640 sovereignty, you don't care about generational wealth, you 281 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,120 don't care about all the important things like Bitcoin is 282 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,160 at most 20% price, at most 80% freedom. 283 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,840 And I think that there are lots of things that probably do 284 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,320 number go up better than Bitcoin, especially now that 285 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,680 we're kind of reaching some sort of critical mass. 286 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,440 I think that the most important thing that we have to remember 287 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,160 is that we want freedom go up. We want maximum independence. 288 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,800 I call myself an independence maxi or a freedom maxi. 289 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:41,040 And I just don't see how these, you know, so-called Bitcoin 290 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:46,040 platforms are custodial, you know, and, and like offering a 291 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,520 product that they know is wrong under the guise of mass mass 292 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,400 market. It, it just, it rubs me the 293 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,680 wrong way. And I and I, I think that as 294 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:54,800 Bitcoiners, we have to be better. 295 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,640 We have to be stronger and and we have to do more than just 296 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,120 like educate and then profit off of the, you know, the wrong way. 297 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,200 So I want to go back to something that you said earlier 298 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,400 in regards to Bitcoin being early, right? 299 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,400 You're early to Bitcoin still. I mean, how can you say that, 300 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,040 right? Like, you know, you've been a 301 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,760 Bitcoin entrepreneur for 10 years now. 302 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,000 I think it's been 11 years since you got into Bitcoin in the 303 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,720 first place. How can you still say at this 304 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,760 point, I mean, you're not really that early. 305 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,160 If the US government is saying, hey, look, guys, like probably 306 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,400 going to buy. We're probably going to buy. 307 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,600 It 20% or whatever it is. Like, you know, you can't, you 308 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,480 can't be that early. Are you talking about like 309 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,000 adoption terms, price terms? And then I'll add a follow up 310 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,600 question to that. Like, you know, what are the, 311 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,040 what should people expect getting into Bitcoin? 312 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,040 Because and you know, it's almost getting a little bit 313 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,200 boring in a way. It's kind of, yeah, you're 314 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:46,200 right. It is getting a little bit 315 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,800 boring and it's interesting to say that I it's like 5%. 316 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,400 Like it feels like the stock market, man. 317 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,480 Like I feel like Bitcoin Twitter is still operating and it's 318 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,400 2017. We're about to RIP, you know, 319 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,200 20X. We're all degens looking for. 320 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,440 It, I mean, the market cap is just so big. 321 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,760 You know, it's not to say that I can't do it totally. 322 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,760 Like gold's market cap increased tremendously, but I think it was 323 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,960 like 6 trillion. Yeah, market cap really only 324 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,800 works for businesses, not for like commodities or protocols 325 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,960 like, you know, gold, oil, Bitcoin like you don't like 326 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,600 market cap is completely irrelevant because there's 327 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,240 there's no way that we can capture, you know, mass 328 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,640 distribution. And I think that's what I mean 329 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,960 when I'm early is Bitcoin hasn't hit a mass distribution, not 330 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,800 even close. Like if we just walked, you 331 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:35,280 know, walked anywhere down any St. in any city and said, hey, 332 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,920 do you have a Bitcoin wallet? I bet less than half say yes. 333 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,960 And of the half or of the, you know, whatever percentage say 334 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,040 yes, less than 5% actually have a seed phrase. 335 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,200 And when you think about, you know, where is Bitcoin going to 336 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,080 go? It's going to go one of two 337 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,040 ways. It's going to go to 0 or as the 338 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,000 global, you know, monetary policy. 339 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,920 And if it goes to 0, it'll be because everyone holds Bitcoin 340 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,960 in a custodian and or you know, is 61 O2. 341 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,120 And if it goes to be global monetary policy, it's going to 342 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,600 be because we've mastered self custody and everyone's 343 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,600 comfortable custodying their wealth for like moving backwards 344 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:19,480 150 years to gold coins under my mattress, but preferably, you 345 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,120 know, not held under your mattress. 346 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,080 Is that, is that possible? Because in my experience, right, 347 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,360 it's been like there's just some people that there's, it doesn't 348 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,840 matter how many times I've showed them, I still end up 349 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,120 being like Uncle Jim, yeah. The Internet tech support, yeah, 350 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,440 no, it's not possible today. It's not supposed to be. 351 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:40,880 And I think that's actually. Hardware. 352 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,200 Limitations. No, it's nobody has to change 353 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,840 right now to survive. I mean, you think safety explain 354 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,520 this perfectly, the adoption of Bitcoin more akin to to 355 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,560 gunpowder than to like a fancy iPhone or something like that 356 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,480 where you know, you don't really know who adopted gunpowder last 357 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,160 because they're just dead. The history books, they're not 358 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,359 in them, their colony or their their citizenship is just gone 359 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,839 because they lost. You brought a knife to a 360 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:11,440 gunfight and you lose 100% of the time. 361 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,800 And Bitcoin is the gunpowder. It's the better version of 362 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,000 someone else having access and control of your money. 363 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,520 And so those that do not embrace that will perish. 364 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,319 Their bloodline will not have access to wealth. 365 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:28,280 It will be very, very, very difficult for their descendants 366 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,120 to have any level of access to wealth. 367 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,720 And this Fiat world where we can pass wealth from generation to 368 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,600 generation without teaching the next generation how to manage 369 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,720 it, is going to evaporate, probably in the generation from 370 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,000 from our parents to us. Why? 371 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:45,800 Why? Why so? 372 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,840 Because I think there's going to be a tremendous amount of of tax 373 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,320 and government authoritarianism where like right now we're 374 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,600 seeing this narrative play out where we've got the rich are bad 375 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,440 and we have to, you know, steal from the rich and give to the 376 00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:59,560 needy. I mean, but that that's always 377 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,200 been the case. Right, but we haven't it hasn't 378 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,400 been paired with, you know, the seeming the end of a monetary 379 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,200 like we're looking at the end of Fiat. 380 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,080 I think we'd agree. Like if you know, even in the 381 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,920 70s, even like you know, back in into the 30s, Fiat currency 382 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,520 wasn't as as bad as it was as it is right now. 383 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:23,680 And so when you look at A at a generation of people who have, 384 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,320 you know, now for two generations just received 385 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,680 account statements and a built in manager and it became 386 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,520 somebody else's problem to train up a new manager, you know, oh, 387 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,680 hey, I'm leaving. But Bob's here and he's been at 388 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,840 the firm for 20 years and he's going to look after your kids. 389 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,680 And it's like, awesome, Bob, where's my rib eye steak? 390 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,560 Thank you very much. I'll go to a ball game with you. 391 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,800 And, you know, you can manage my $35 million. 392 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,280 And I think that that's going to completely disappear in favor of 393 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:53,920 Bitcoin in self custody. And when it does, it will be our 394 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,160 parents passing wealth to us because people our age, I'd say 395 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,240 half of them are comfortable with self custody. 396 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,320 And I think that the generation coming up is more comfortable 397 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,280 than ever. I am so bullish. 398 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,160 I have like the girl who babysits my kids who's like 16. 399 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,360 I'm always talking to her. You know, what's the latest? 400 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,680 Like I'm getting the pool teenager lingo. 401 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,440 I'm like figuring out how they speak and how they think and 402 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,440 their freedom. Maxis man, like they understand 403 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,640 they're not bought into the liberal brainwashing that I 404 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,840 think that our generation kind of was exposed to and and was 405 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,600 bought into. They're not they are digital 406 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,920 natives and they have no problem money being in the cloud and 407 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,440 they're incentivized to want to learn how to manage that because 408 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,320 I think they they understand what's going on. 409 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,840 And so I'm super bullish on self custody, not because your 410 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,240 grandma is going to self custody. 411 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,040 Frankly, your grandma doesn't need to self custody like she's 412 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,560 15 years. Like I don't know your grandma 413 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,040 specifically, but like, you know, grandmas in general are 414 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,720 probably fine. Our parents probably have us so 415 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,120 so they're OK. But our generation and younger 416 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,240 like consider this a direct call out to learn how to self custody 417 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,320 so. I'm of that belief too, right? 418 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,280 And I think it's 'cause, you know, again, the class that 419 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,880 you're from, right? But as Bitcoin continues to go 420 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,360 up in value. But I don't think everybody's 421 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:16,400 going to have the luxury of being able to deal with the main 422 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,720 chain just because of essentially being outpriced. 423 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,280 I mean, what would your response be to that? 424 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,920 Yeah, I think layer 2 is to be determined still. 425 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,480 There's two real prominent players right now in Liquid, 426 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,800 which is kind of a, you know, hybrid custodial solution 427 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,720 federation style and Lightning. I think that, you know, I'm 428 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,680 probably more in the camp of Lightning because I'm 429 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,520 technically capable to set up a lightning node and and you know. 430 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,680 The lightning is great, but it's not ready. 431 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,080 For not ready for what I'm saying completely not even close 432 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,720 because it takes. It takes one of the entire 433 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,920 reason, like all of a sudden we're back to square one we're 434 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,240 relying on. Custodians, yeah, man, 435 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,240 completely and and in in both scenarios. 436 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,440 So you either have to be technically adept to be able to 437 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,600 set up a lighting node and and and balance the channels and 438 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,160 manage the channels and and be able to spend in self custody 439 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,840 or. Is Bitcoin destined for only a 440 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,040 few people to have self custody of their Bitcoin? 441 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,360 No, no, no. I think that the layer 2 that 442 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:11,320 wins doesn't exist yet. I think that we're going to see 443 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,000 some sort of, I mean, dude, think about how easy it is to 444 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,600 self custody Bitcoin today even compared to 2016. 445 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,560 It was. It's significantly easier. 446 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,600 And bro, let me tell you 2013. Wallets. 447 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,160 They didn't. Exist 100% like and why, right? 448 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,280 It wasn't necessarily one company or one initiative, but 449 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,440 collectively the industry, the free market, if you will, 450 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,440 identified yo, Bitcoin wallets suck and we should make them 451 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,320 better. And you know, tons of open 452 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,160 source software, tons of guides, you know, tons of tutorial, like 453 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,280 like just so much stuff coming out And what do you know, like 454 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,880 now you download, you know, like blue wallet or you know, any 455 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,520 other self custody open source software, two buttons, you know, 456 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,040 write down your words and like you're good. 457 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,200 And I think that, you know, look at even like the bit key that 458 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,920 launched. That's maybe controversial, but 459 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,960 but is is seedless and self custody focus. 460 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,120 They're there is people and are people innovating in the space 461 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,960 that I think have the right incentive and the right motive 462 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,160 that want to see Bitcoin scale. We all understand, you know, our 463 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:20,720 sacrifice of of having UTXOS and I am very, very, very convinced 464 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,720 that layer 2, whatever it may be in the future, I don't think it 465 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,040 will be lightning. I don't think it will be liquid. 466 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,920 I think it will be some other kind of combination thereof is 467 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,360 is going to work and and who knows? 468 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:32,400 I mean, it could be it, it could be like liquid, like federation 469 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,960 style inside smaller communities where you just have like 470 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,240 federation bridges. Like like I said, that's not my 471 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,400 field. Whatever the smart people do, 472 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,080 I'm going to adopt A Bitcoin well, but like, you know, wipe 473 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,280 my hands. But as someone who's been in the 474 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,600 space a long time and has seen the innovation, I am very, very, 475 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,680 very convinced Bitcoin will scale. 476 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,200 Bitcoin is for everybody or it won't work as a as a reserve 477 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,480 currency. It has to be for, but it isn't 478 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,240 for everybody on the main chain. Guys, I want to tell you about 479 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,840 our sponsor bitcoinwell.com. It's the best place to build 480 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,200 your automatic self custody Bitcoin stack. 481 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,600 What makes Bitcoin well different is that it's a 482 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,240 completely non custodial platform, which means as soon as 483 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,640 you buy Bitcoin on Bitcoin well and the funds clear, they go 484 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,440 straight to yourself. Custody Bitcoin wallet address 485 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,280 Enable your independence today with the fastest and safest way 486 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,400 to buy Bitcoin in Canada and the United States. 487 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,680 Head over to bitcoinwell.com to get started. 488 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,080 I think eventually, and maybe not everybody, but it is for 489 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,240 every bloodline, It is for every generation on the main chain. 490 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,360 I think that we have to think about the downstream effects of 491 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:43,680 a Bitcoin standard and how it aligns incentives, how it 492 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,720 doesn't allow for frivolous spending. 493 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,200 It doesn't allow to not teach your kids like how many people 494 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,160 right now have so many, you know, have their two kids or 495 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,120 whatever the standard is and they just dump them in the 496 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,360 school system. Don't teach them about saving or 497 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:58,960 budgeting or or smart spending or time preference. 498 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,800 And and ultimately just, you know, their kids get brainwashed 499 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,560 by the state and then and then off they go to make the same 500 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,160 mistakes. That is not possible on a 501 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,320 Bitcoin standard simply because the incentives do not work when 502 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,760 you've got this low time preference and you instill that 503 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,880 in generation, let's call it generation one. 504 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,480 Our children's generation is generation one in, in this 505 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,400 example, we're going to be passing down Bitcoin to them. 506 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,640 And let's say we're starting right now, we're starting at 507 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,040 Ground Zero right now. We make 100% and we, you know, 508 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,600 spend 90 and 10% of our income goes into into layer 2 and it's 509 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,000 sitting there. And we do that for 30 years, 510 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,360 probably as part of our succession, our our life 511 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,520 succession. That 30 year accumulation in 512 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,280 layer two goes on the main train and it's and it's there and 513 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,440 hopefully that child does the same thing and it's stacking and 514 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,120 then that goes, you know, onto the main chain. 515 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:55,800 And so I agree the main chain is probably not to use, you know, 516 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,320 every year or, you know, like I consolidate Utixos quarterly. 517 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,160 That won't be a thing in 20 years. 518 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,640 But you know how the like the like the Jewish have like the 519 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,800 bar mitzvahs and the like this becoming a man, It will you will 520 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,440 be becoming a man when you you have your coins transferred from 521 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,760 layer 2 to the main chain. This is like this is a 522 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,120 celebration. Get the cake, get the, you know, 523 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:19,920 get the bubbly water. Like this is a big deal. 524 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,720 So OK, let's talk about like the the long term, right? 525 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,320 So where are you? Do you agree with Hal Finney's 526 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,640 posts? You think we'll see $10 million 527 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,240 Bitcoin with today's purchasing power anytime soon? 528 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,480 Anytime soon? I mean anytime soon in regards 529 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,920 to the next 1020 thirty years. Oh yeah, like I don't see, 530 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,080 unless the government stops printing, I don't see how we 531 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,200 don't see 10,000,020 million. Like we already have a 10 532 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,600 million, you know, yen Bitcoin, right? 533 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,640 How far off are we in pesos? Like are we a 2X or A3 XOA in 534 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,480 pesos? Like you know, yes, because the 535 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,400 US dollar and the Canadian dollar and the Australian 536 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,840 dollar, we are no better than the peso. 537 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,400 We are just a little bit further down or further behind in the 538 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,840 life cycle. And so 10 million, yeah, why so 539 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,080 bearish, man? Like how about 50 million? 540 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,880 How about 100? It is inevitable that sound 541 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,840 wealth will transfer like wealth is like water and it's no one is 542 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,840 questioning does water go downhill? 543 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,920 It's like, yeah, and wealth will transfer to the scarcest, most 544 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,760 valuable asset there is literally 0 things on planet 545 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,480 Earth more scarce and valuable than Bitcoin. 546 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,800 Not gold, not oil, not the US dollar, obviously not land, not, 547 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,680 you know, beachfront real estate, like nothing is more 548 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,400 scarce and valuable than Bitcoin. 549 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,680 And so yeah, 100 percent, 10 million. 550 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,280 I agree with Hal. Yeah, 100%. 551 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:48,080 Yeah. And and I agree with you as well 552 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,960 too. One of the phenomenons that 553 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,840 we've been seeing in developing countries, specifically in South 554 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,800 South America, Africa, Southeast Asia, is the mass adoption of 555 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,520 stable coins, specifically Tether. 556 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,080 I think Bitcoiners had this initial concept that, you know, 557 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,440 this is a perfect fix, right? You have an unstable Fiat 558 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,640 currency, boom, boom, boom, Bing, you're going to adopt 559 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,560 Bitcoin. You know, makes sense. 560 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,400 Listen, that's not what the free market is saying. 561 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,080 The free market is saying is that people want dollars. 562 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,040 So do you think that's an educational issue? 563 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,080 Do you think stable coins are a threat to Bitcoin? 564 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,640 Do you think that my my own public opinion is that they're a 565 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,680 Trojan horse in a way because it gets people exposed to digital 566 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,000 wallets? That phenomenon surprise you at 567 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,880 all? No, I don't think so. 568 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,480 The first time I was exposed to stable coins was during kind of 569 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,800 the ICO craze in 2017. And I was like, wow, moving 570 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,480 money should go a lot easier or moving dollars got a lot easier. 571 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,840 I was already very used to like my first Bitcoin transaction, 572 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,240 real Bitcoin transaction was buying a Bitcoin ATM in 2013. 573 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,040 I paid for it in Bitcoin like I, I moved money on a Sunday 574 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,360 afternoon from my wallet to to his and it was a done deal. 575 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:03,040 And so I was used to this idea that money needed to move. 576 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,080 What I wasn't used to was that stable money could move. 577 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:08,680 And I think that it's less of an education thing, especially in 578 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,440 these several countries, but you, you have to imagine a 579 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:18,560 person who is looking to balance their risk tolerance and their 580 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,120 innovation kind of levels. And there's kind of on a bit of 581 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:23,280 a scale. And for us, you know, we have 582 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:28,720 stable currency already in our bank accounts and in our pockets 583 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,960 and, and, and whatever. And So what we're escaping with 584 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:37,120 Bitcoin is not so much the the failing dollar, although that is 585 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:38,600 part of it. That's the number go up part, 586 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,240 but it's mostly the freedom. That's how I talked about 587 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,000 earlier. Like what we're escaping is the 588 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,280 tyranny in, you know, a developed country that our money 589 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,680 can be stolen. That's why Bitcoin is so 590 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,040 valuable. They're not escaping that same 591 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,840 thing they are in thermal countries. 592 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,040 But I think they're more excited about holy smokes, I finally 593 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:06,640 have access to a stable current a stable currency, and I'm not 594 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,320 going to jump from my already unstable currency to another 595 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,920 unstable currency in in Bitcoin. Obviously over the long term, 596 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,800 Bitcoin has number to go up. And I think most stablecoin 597 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:17,880 users would probably agree with that. 598 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,720 But they don't yet have the luxury of thinking long term 599 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,720 because they are exposed to yeah, man or not even like 600 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,720 probably shorter than that. I actually read a a thing the 601 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,560 other day. Well, Walmart CEO said that they 602 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,240 can see their sales drop on the back half of a two week paycheck 603 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,640 cycle. People are buying like smaller 604 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,440 packages, less food when their paychecks are running out. 605 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,320 And that's petrifying for us. But that's how it's been in 606 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,040 thermal countries for decades, for generations. 607 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,320 And so they're not, you know, forget self custody, forget, you 608 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,440 know, freedom go up. Their version of freedom is just 609 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,640 number stability. And so we, and that's what I 610 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,120 mean by early and, and also like we have to count our blessings 611 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,040 here in North America with how lucky we are that we have, you 612 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,520 know, relatively stable footing to sit on and, and have the 613 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,440 opportunity to look at Bitcoin benefit from number go up, but 614 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,960 also, you know, really push for freedom go up. 615 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,920 Yeah, absolutely, 100%. So you said something earlier 616 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,680 which is really interesting. I want to further explore that 617 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,440 topic talking about setting up your first Bitcoin ATM 2013 use 618 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,840 Bitcoin to buy the first machine. 619 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,880 How do you get from the first machine to how many years later 620 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,240 till you went public? 9-9 years and then you're a 621 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,840 publicly trained company with how many machines now 100? 622 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,920 And sixty across Canada or so, but a. 160 ATM. 623 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,480 We've yeah, we've basically we've, we've moved at one point 624 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,760 was 300 with partnerships and and things we only own 160, but 625 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,000 we operate like many more. So essentially 300X. 626 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,880 At peak, yeah, I guess, yeah. So how did you do 300X? 627 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,600 Yeah, I mean you just it it's funny, like I am not very good 628 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,680 at traditional business. You know, I was very young when 629 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:04,960 I found Bitcoin. Very young. 630 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,400 Wanting to bring ATMSATMS feel like the most logical you're. 631 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,200 In your teens? No Early 20s. 632 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,560 I was 19 when I found Bitcoin, and then I think I was just 20 633 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,880 when I launched the first Bitcoin ATM. 634 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,080 So yeah, like pretty young, you know, back then I thought I knew 635 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,320 everything. And today I'm like, wow, that 636 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,440 guy wasn't a complete idiot like, you know, but it was like 637 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,280 no business plan. It was just let's get a Bitcoin 638 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,000 ATM. Honestly, those are the best 639 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,760 types of business. Bro, you have a dream in your 640 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:33,880 head. You're naive. 641 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,840 Yeah, enough to believe. Dude. 642 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,600 And that, that was part of it. I had 10 people that I asked, 643 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,480 hey, should I do this? And they're all like, no, this. 644 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,640 Is 10 of them said no, it's. A terrible idea. 645 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,640 It's not safe, it's not stable. You know, we don't know how it's 646 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:46,760 going to pan out, blah, blah, blah. 647 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,120 And I was like, I don't really know why. 648 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,080 I asked what I think is. Entrepreneurship like you need a 649 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,440 little bit of overconfidence, optimism and self belief because 650 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,600 if not, it's not going to work. Yeah, man and self belief, but 651 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,280 also and something that I realized later on was like 652 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,000 passion and adaptability are probably the only things that 653 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,840 you need in in. When we went public, my friends 654 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,280 were calling like to congratulate and like all this, 655 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,960 all this stuff or sorry. My friends parents were calling 656 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,640 to graduate and, and one of them talking to my dad was like, oh 657 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,480 man, like I'm just so happy Adam got so lucky. 658 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,600 Like getting into Bitcoin and my dad was like lucky. 659 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,320 He's like that kid is so frustrating and stubborn. 660 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,520 There is no one that hasn't told Adam stop or no. 661 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,600 But the idiot just keeps on, you know, bursting through walls and 662 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,960 like frankly man, every single wall can be can be pushed 663 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,520 through every single one. I am not convinced and I have so 664 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,440 much, I have the audacity to say there are 0 problems that cannot 665 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,200 be solved with brain power and manpower. 666 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,680 And I mean, look at like we have, we have more of that than 667 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,600 any time before. Like we are just going to blast 668 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:53,960 problems. And and that's, that's 669 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,640 ultimately what it was. It was like, oh, we want to run 670 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,280 ATMs. No one wants a Bitcoin ATM. 671 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,040 So I remember there's this one time here's the first problem I 672 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,840 ever experienced. So Bitcoin ATM comes to my 673 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,480 house. It's really heavy. 674 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,320 I like lift it up and carry up the stairs, like hurt my back. 675 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,800 So put it down, set it up. I send 100 Bitcoin to the to the 676 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,440 Bitcoin wallet in there. It's gone. 677 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,280 It leaves and I'm like, oh, that was a good scam. 678 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,600 Like it didn't work very good. And so I called the 679 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,200 manufacturer, the guy that sold it to me, and I'm like, dude, 680 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,840 like what is going on? He's like, Oh yeah, we 681 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,120 accidentally loaded one wallet onto 50 different machines when 682 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,280 we shipped from the factory and we forgot to wipe that. 683 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,440 So someone must have just taken the coins. 684 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,280 And I was like, well, that was kind of like, you know, I didn't 685 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,200 do test transaction. It was just like 100. 686 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,960 No, but at the time it was worth how much? 687 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,280 It would have been like probably a couple $1000 which like and 688 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,520 today. Now it's. 10 million or well, 689 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,080 yeah, yeah, for sure. But even even like couple $1000 690 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,120 though like when you're 20 years old. 691 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,240 Yeah, of course. That's just like, I was like 692 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,320 sick to my stomach. I wasn't sure I was going to 693 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,040 recoup. And so eventually like called, 694 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,480 he was like, I don't know. And I was like, well, you got to 695 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,200 figure this out. He's like, OK, OK, So we like 696 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,280 talk on the phone. He ends up finding the coins. 697 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,480 We go through this big long. The guy that ended up having 698 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,880 them was like some, you know, wanted to feel very important to 699 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,679 me. I did this big long drawn out 700 00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,000 phone call and all this stuff and then, you know, a week later 701 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,159 I get the coins back. I was like whoo. 702 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,120 And so did he do it on purpose? No, he was just like, oh, coins 703 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,280 in the wallet, like like any reasonable. 704 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,679 He did want any. I don't fault him. 705 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:27,520 He probably could have handled the situation a little bit 706 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,320 better, but when he'd be like, hey, like here's proof that I 707 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:31,280 sent them. They're mine. 708 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,480 Can you just put them back please? 709 00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:34,120 But anyways, so that was like problem one. 710 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,400 Then problem 2 was oh, hey, no one wants, no one's heard of 711 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,000 Bitcoin and no one wants a Bitcoin ATM. 712 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,440 So lucky for me, my father-in-law, who also gave me 713 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,040 the seed capital for the first ATM and the Bitcoin that were 714 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,360 subsequently gone and then and then returned. 715 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,400 He had a pub. And so I was like, great, we'll 716 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,040 put the pub, we'll put the ATM in the pub. 717 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,120 And then the third problem was, which is amazing. 718 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,280 And we were the first one in Alberta. 719 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,280 It was great publicity, I think for, for, for his pub. 720 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,880 It was really awesome for me to be able to have a friendly face 721 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,560 and, and whatever. But then, you know, the third 722 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,360 problem was like no one wanted to use the like no one was using 723 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,640 the ATM. And so it was a slow grind, a 724 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,840 slow build up to to end up using it. 725 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,640 And you know, but any, any one of those things could have been 726 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:18,560 like, oh, my coins were stolen. This Yep, Yep, no, everyone was 727 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,400 right. Like this is done. 728 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,080 You know, no one wants it. I'm going to hang it up. 729 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,480 Like you just got to keep on, just keep on grinding. 730 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,720 You know what's really interesting too is like those 731 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:31,920 times, those dark times, right? They if you, if you survive and 732 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,120 then like, honestly, it's very rare that I've ever met an 733 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,800 entrepreneur that doesn't eventually succeed. 734 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,160 Totally, man. What I find more often is 735 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,600 someone who gives up, someone who quits, Yes. 736 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,320 But if you keep chipping at it, eventually you either have a 737 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,800 break or you know, but you're going to have extremely dark 738 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,760 days and pain throughout the entire process. 739 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,280 But I feel like that's the price that you have to pay. 740 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,760 Yeah, man. And I think it's healthy. 741 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,720 I don't think we want successful people who haven't gone through 742 00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,040 pain. We definitely need. 743 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,640 I don't think you can be successful. 744 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,480 If you haven't, I would, I would agree with you. 745 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,840 And, and I think that as a society, we want the leaders, 746 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,040 you know, whether they be business people or, or leaders 747 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,120 in politics or whatever. And that's not how it works now. 748 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,480 Not anymore, but it used to be. Because now the way that society 749 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,440 works, too, and it was recently in Washington, DC, and it's so 750 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:36,280 like, it's a beautiful city. But so, yeah, I just, I have to 751 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,800 remember where I am. So it's a beautiful city. 752 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,040 But I guess what I'm trying to say is like, essentially, like 753 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,600 the way that society works now is, you know, there's a 754 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:45,960 popularity contest. Yeah. 755 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,040 And whoever wins that popularity contest controls the money 756 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,120 printer, essentially, dude. And it's crazy. 757 00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,120 It's a complete because like in business, right? 758 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,080 If you make bad decisions, what happens? 759 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,880 You die, You go out of business. Yes, right. 760 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,520 You have to start from zero. You get a massive piece of 761 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,280 humble pie and you start again. And then you learn what not to 762 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:05,480 do. And then, of course, the free 763 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,320 market kind of decides, OK, you know, this guy's really good, 764 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,520 this guy's winning, right? So it's like the free market 765 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,160 kind of takes care of itself and the political system. 766 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,760 The only feedback mechanism that they get that the government 767 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,000 gets is an election, at least in the US, every four years or 768 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,600 every two years is, you know, kind of how. 769 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,880 But for presidents every four years, that's a terrible 770 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,840 feedback. Mechanism, it's a very difficult 771 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,040 four years is also it's the same in Canada, but it's, it's even 772 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,160 worse because it's, it's somehow too short to get anything done, 773 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,800 but then too long because it's got such a long feedback loop. 774 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,880 You almost like in business if you make bad decisions for four 775 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,360 years. Actually, I don't think you can 776 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:45,840 make bad decisions for four years in business. 777 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,200 You can do bad decisions for like 6 months Max and then you 778 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,760 just end up, you know, disappearing and no one has 779 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,920 heard of you. It's because you have this like 780 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,000 at Bitcoin. Well, especially like I love the 781 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,840 short feedback loop of, of the portal. 782 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,280 Even with ATMs, the feedback loop is so long. 783 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,920 We, we discovered that it takes about 8 months for a machine to 784 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,720 hit it's it's stride. And so we have an 8 month feed 785 00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:14,120 from placing machine on day one. Whatever the machine is doing at 786 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,160 8 months is kind of the cap that it will ever do. 787 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,960 And if that's, you know, 50 grand a month, it's like 788 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,360 dynamite, but if it's 100 bucks a month, it's like time to yank 789 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,640 it. And so we have a place and wait 790 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,240 strategy. You have to wait eight months on 791 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:31,280 the portal. If we launch like we just 792 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,120 launched recurring buy in the USA and it's been like a huge 793 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:35,720 hit, which I'm, you know, we were expecting. 794 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,320 But if it wasn't, that would be, you know, in the first week. 795 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,920 If we didn't have our expected uptick, it would be like, oh, 796 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,640 hey, you know, why did I think it would? 797 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,760 Where did I make that mistake? Let's change, you know, in our 798 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,440 future decisions and then make better decisions next week. 799 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,440 Like we get to make a better decision next week. 800 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,200 We have to wait eight months or four years or it's like we can 801 00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:59,720 take meaningful action now. And and that's why again, like 802 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,560 back to, you know, even like the layer 2 conversation, like we're 803 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,640 getting really good feedback currently in Bitcoin in its 804 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,880 digital nature, in its global ability. 805 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,440 And I, dude, I'm just so bullish on the future of this, you know, 806 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,760 product or currency or monetary. Policy 100%. 807 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,760 I mean, like Bitcoin essentially has incentivized the smartest 808 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,160 people on earth to come on or yeah. 809 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,880 Yeah, you'll end. Incentives are insane. 810 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,640 They're just working for their bags essentially, I think Kaiser 811 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,480 says, like, Sailor is the employee of the month, Trump, 812 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,520 Trump was the employee of the month with the hands. 813 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,520 Trump was the employee of the month for, for, for February. 814 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,760 Like without a shadow of a doubt. 815 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,440 And I mean, he came through so hard. 816 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:40,080 Like I and I remember, you know, the end of 2024, it was, it was 817 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,320 put us in a very difficult position because we've always 818 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,200 taken a very neutral stance, right? 819 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,640 Like I'm like, look, don't care if you're left, right. 820 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,760 You know, Democrat, Republicans, all the same thing. 821 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,560 And then they arrested the Samurai wall. 822 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,480 Yeah, man. Like simply Bitcoin endorses 823 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:59,480 Trump 2024 and but RFK, you know, 2024 a 100% they have. 824 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,920 And then so many people in the chat loss was like, why are you 825 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,040 guys getting political? Like you guys do not understand 826 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,960 this is survival. I got to say, we told you so, 827 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,920 right, right. And I think this is a very 828 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,240 interesting phenomenon. This is where it leads me to the 829 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:15,760 next topic where we're kind of in this weird transition period 830 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,720 in politics. I really do believe the theory 831 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:21,120 from the sovereign individual where information technologies 832 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,840 or the adoption of them is going to lead to the eventual death of 833 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,040 politics like politics. Is going to take a backseat in 834 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,200 terms of the importance in people's lives. 835 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,080 And we're kind of seeing that system go through that 836 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,000 transition. Like what was a really 837 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,440 interesting phenomenon to me was how much they fought to control 838 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,800 information. Like now Inbuka has a very 839 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,680 famous quote from Bitcoin magazine. 840 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:47,720 The name of the article is don't drink the elite kool-aid. 841 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,840 And in that article, he says their most important weapon is 842 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,960 their control over the truth. And we saw this. 843 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,520 I mean, the mainstream media was like, if it's a tweet, it's 844 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:56,760 misinformation. Yeah, right. 845 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,600 You know, And then at the same time, they're blaming inflation 846 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,840 on the weather. Like, it's so absurd. 847 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,520 But we saw the collective consciousness of the world as 848 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,200 soon as Elon freed the bird. Like wake up and eventually 849 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,600 reach this critical mass where the the majority of people are 850 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,440 no longer getting their information on legacy media, 851 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,840 which in my opinion is like propaganda for. 852 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,320 The states 100%. And most people are doing their 853 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,600 own research on social media, for better or worse. 854 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,320 I think it's better. Yeah, I think. 855 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,120 It's a free market of ideas. But what I'm trying to make is 856 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,640 like, you know, where does politics go from now? 857 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,280 Like where, where does it go? Like this is going to be some 858 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,680 some crazy times. Need liquidity without having to 859 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,800 sell your Bitcoin? For more than six years now, 860 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,800 Leaden has been the trusted choice for Bitcoin backed 861 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:47,320 lending with transparency, security and trust at their 862 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,000 core. I absolutely love these guys and 863 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,880 I personally have not only an account with them but also alone 864 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,400 and some of the key features that I love about Leaden and is 865 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,000 the fact that there are no monthly payments. 866 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,640 You pay at the end of the term. You also have the ability to 867 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,720 roll over the loan as well and you can pay it back whenever you 868 00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:10,680 want. Essentially what they do is that 869 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,840 they help their clients unlock the liquidity of their BTC, 870 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,480 allowing you to huddle while still accessing the wealth of 871 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,000 your Bitcoin. They've been battle tested with 872 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,480 their focus on transparency, security and trust, allowing 873 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,560 them to build a proven track record of client success and 874 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,360 security, helping 10s of thousands of clients harness the 875 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,080 value of their digital assets with confidence and Peace of 876 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,520 Mind. Learn more about what your BTC 877 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,360 can do for you. Check out leaden dot IO today. 878 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,400 I think it's pretty clear that democracy as we have it doesn't 879 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:49,280 work. Oh God. 880 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,760 It's like it's obvious I don't know what the right solution. 881 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,000 Is what is the alternative? Well, this is this is the right 882 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,440 question. And I think this is the question 883 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:02,720 that our generation needs to be asking internally and also in 884 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,800 conversation. But also we need to be having 885 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,080 this discussion with our with our kids and and with the next 886 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,440 generation, because it is very clear that the popularity 887 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,720 contest to give someone, you know, God like power for four 888 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:17,760 years and then also restrict it to just one of two sides like 889 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,440 it's not working. I mean, to play to play devil's 890 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,440 advocate, right? Like how else would you get 891 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,600 equality? How else would you get, you 892 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,920 know, fairness? Like what would happen to the 893 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,600 people that are left behind, right? 894 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,320 Well, I think I think that we. That's the like, essentially the 895 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,960 main proponents of democracy are like, look like there's massive 896 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,960 wealth inequality. Democracy fixes that. 897 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,760 Right, Yeah. I think that we rely a lot, 898 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,600 though, on someone else like wealth inequality. 899 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:47,280 If we had a nice naturally incentivized monetary policy, 900 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,680 like a Bitcoin standard, let's say, wealth inequality would be 901 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,360 first of all like levelled out just by the nature of the value 902 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,720 economic system, you'd. Think it'd be much better than 903 00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:00,200 where it is stands today. Way better, but because it would 904 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,440 be more decentralized, but even even even further so investing 905 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:08,120 stops to look like Fiat gains number go up and it starts to 906 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,680 look like building the world that I want to see. 907 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,520 And and this can, you know, obviously pose problems. 908 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,280 If enough people want to see a bad world, then you know, they 909 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,000 will spend their money on making bad old things. 910 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,880 I believe, and this is probably where my optimistic, you know, 911 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,280 puppy dog nature comes out. But I do believe that humanity 912 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,440 is good. I believe that we have more good 913 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:39,000 in us than than evil as a like as a Christian, I believe that, 914 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:46,000 you know, God has the ability to help us see the benefits of 915 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,120 good. And I would love to think, and I 916 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:55,000 think others would join me in thinking that with monetary 917 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,720 equality, meaning everyone has access to the same ability with 918 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:03,360 a value based, you know, monetary system, they would also 919 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,800 start investing in a good world. And you actually probably won. 920 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,440 You want that, but you also want, you want people 921 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,760 incentivized to, we're not incentivized to make a good 922 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,600 world right now. We are, we are all being stolen 923 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,040 from by, you know, inflation. But even deeper than that, we're 924 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:26,400 being stolen from by a, a third party in Fiat, in Fiat money. 925 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,960 And when you don't know who is stealing from you, it looks like 926 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,640 your neighbor, it looks like your, your brother, it looks 927 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,720 like your friend is stealing from you and you, you're being 928 00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:37,840 punched in the face and you just can't figure out where it's 929 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,600 from. And so you just start swinging. 930 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,480 And when you start swinging, you go into, like you said, this 931 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,200 self preservation mode. And you have no ability to look 932 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,000 out further. You have no ability or desire to 933 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:53,240 try and fix the world because you're just so focused on, on 934 00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:57,000 maintaining what you have. I think that the the future of 935 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:02,320 of politics or or in my mind, lack thereof, it it doesn't look 936 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,440 like a democracy like we know it because it doesn't need to be 937 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,320 the problems that existed. The reason democracy is here is 938 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,040 because money was centrally controlled. 939 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,640 Like we've never seen an opportunity for a society to 940 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,040 work with an openly fair democratic money. 941 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,680 I just think that we have such a cool opportunity to adopt the 942 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,600 principles of Bitcoin, you know, rules, not rulers. 943 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,760 Like like I don't know why we don't vote on multiple things 944 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,600 like voting. You know, we vote on Twitter 945 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,480 like 9 times a day with a poll. We can, we can probably get 946 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,560 smart enough to figure out how to, you know, have have 947 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:41,120 individuals in a community campaign for certain things. 948 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,400 You know, like I live in a suburb in Alberta of like 949 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,640 100,000 people. Like it shouldn't be hard for me 950 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,120 to say guys, why do we have grass? 951 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,040 We should have fruits and vegetables here. 952 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,280 So what you're saying is essentially Bitcoin essentially 953 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,560 fixes democracy. It's not necessarily. 954 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,040 It's not necessarily that Bitcoin gets rid of democracy, 955 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,040 it's that democracy is broken because of Fiat and it's 956 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,160 essentially misaligned the incentive structure. 957 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,720 Maybe said differently, Bitcoin actually enables democracy, 958 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,480 where right now I wouldn't call what we have right now 959 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,240 democratic. I don't think it's democratic at 960 00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:16,120 all. I didn't vote for a carbon tax. 961 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,320 Like actually, literally right now. 962 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,000 Then there's a brand new Prime Minister that came into Canada. 963 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:27,040 He he's just got in on Sunday and he is never once been on a 964 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,480 ballot sheet, never once been elected at all. 965 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,080 The people voted for a party. And then the party leader was 966 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,560 like, yeah, he was garbage. And he left. 967 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,960 And then the party leaders appointed someone new. 968 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:41,920 And he's, by the way, a global essential banker. 969 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,400 Like it cannot get any less democratic than that already. 970 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,640 But they're like, oh, this is democracy. 971 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,680 Like you voted for this. I didn't vote for this. 972 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,160 I didn't vote for you to shut down the truckers have bank 973 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,360 accounts and for you to, you know, lock me in my home because 974 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,560 I didn't think of medicine and and for you to like put a diaper 975 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,280 on my kids face. Like no, no, no, no, I do not 976 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,440 vote for this. And So what is, you know, a 977 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,960 democratic system if it's not having the ability to vote on 978 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,200 the things that are deeply, deeply important? 979 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,600 And like, can we even call a world that has mass, you know, 980 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,800 mass restrictions put upon it in the name of safety? 981 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,400 Can we call that democratic if they can just play the safety 982 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,560 card, like climate emergency, you know, medical emergency, 983 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,520 like we're just, we're just giving them. 984 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:27,440 I think they've taken these God like powers and removed our 985 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,360 democratic powers. And I think that Bitcoin kind of 986 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,640 throws everything back in the middle and I think we have an 987 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,960 opportunity now to kind of regain our democratic powers 988 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,960 from what has been taken. Yeah, absolutely. 989 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,240 I mean, specifically if you take self custody, if you take self 990 00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:45,120 custody, you're reclaiming back your financial sovereignty 100%. 991 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,600 You're empowering yourself and you're empowering your family. 992 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,240 100% agree. And it's going to be very 993 00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:52,000 interesting to see how this plays out. 994 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,800 I, I, it's going to be because it's a pivotal moment in human 995 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,760 history really. We're seeing the balance of 996 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,680 power shift from the state to the individual. 997 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:01,640 The individual just haven't realized that yet. 998 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,240 They don't realize how much power they're really taking back 999 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:06,880 once they take self custody. It's going to be an interesting 1000 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,720 phenomenon to see how they try to stop it. 1001 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,320 I think that this previous election in the United States, I 1002 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,480 think the stakes were so high because I think both, and again, 1003 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,120 you know, both parties are not monolithic, right? 1004 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,960 But I, I, I really do believe, like if you look at one party, 1005 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,080 they voted essentially for a central bank digital currency. 1006 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,680 You look at the other party, they're like, oh, Bitcoin, 1007 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,520 right? Like it was like, you know, fork 1008 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,240 in the road which way you're going, Bitcoin or slavery type 1009 00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:36,000 of thing. And I'm glad that we went in a 1010 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,120 certain direction, But again, we're only four years away from 1011 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,720 essentially the color that being reversed, right? 1012 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,840 So it's very, very interesting. Now I kind of want to circle 1013 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,560 back to something that we were talking about earlier in the 1014 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,240 conversation regards to essentially us being early and 1015 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,680 the price, right? So, you know, this this year, 1016 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,880 like, like I was saying, has been underwhelming. 1017 00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,960 You're you're anticipating 500K Bitcoin. 1018 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,840 And I think my question to you is like, is Bitcoin going to be 1019 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,840 boring heading into the future? You know, it's, it's very easy 1020 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,200 for us to be like, ah, you know what, like this is great. 1021 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:10,840 Yeah. I mean, you know, we've been in, 1022 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,680 we've been at this for a couple of years. 1023 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,760 What would you say to someone that was just getting in and 1024 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,480 they're seeing Bitcoin and, you know, they they want to improve 1025 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,560 their lives? Like what would your response to 1026 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,240 them be? Because they're looking at, you 1027 00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:25,040 know, a lot of the meme coins or a lot of these stocks, EXA has 1028 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,760 more volatility. They're like, why shouldn't 1029 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,240 this, this Bitcoin thing is boring. 1030 00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:31,560 Like you know the best days of Bitcoin are behind it. 1031 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,880 Certainly I think from a dopamine level, the best days of 1032 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,560 Bitcoin are are behind, and that's a feature, not a bug. 1033 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,520 I think that if you are coming into Bitcoin because you want 1034 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:47,600 maximum dopamine, you're probably not quite ready to be 1035 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,120 in Bitcoin. I call the alt coins, the crypto 1036 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:55,000 casino, and there's a reason nobody with a, you know, with a 1037 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,320 sound mind takes their paycheck every two weeks, throws it on 1038 00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,240 red and just sees what happened, right? 1039 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,720 No one's going to the blackjack table thinking I'm going to work 1040 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:06,720 like I'm a blackjack pro. I'm going to. 1041 00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:08,240 It's like, no, no, no luck in the draw. 1042 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,520 You get the card. You can know when to place big 1043 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,040 and and when not to. You can play probabilities to 1044 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,200 your advantage, but you do not have the ability to determine 1045 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,400 when the card is going to hit and when it's not. 1046 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,400 And I think that as Bitcoin becomes more boring, it only 1047 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,680 becomes boring because we have a group of people that 1048 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,680 collectively believe that the casino, like I used to love, you 1049 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,520 know, gambling on the football games and, and, and playing 1050 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,280 cards with my friends, like very, very fun. 1051 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,320 I used to get a rush when I played with more money and I 1052 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,600 don't anymore. Now, I just love the act of 1053 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,000 doing it. I don't need or want to bet big 1054 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,520 to win big because I know the risk and the cost associated 1055 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,520 with that. If 1% of the generation before 1056 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,560 me thinks this way, maybe 5% of my generation thinks this way. 1057 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,040 But we're all having kids right now. 1058 00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:00,760 And so probably 50% of the next generation thinks this way. 1059 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,640 And then they're going to have kids and probably it's 80% after 1060 00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,000 that. And during those generational 1061 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,680 transfers, dude, they're going to line up with the monetary 1062 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,880 supply basically unchanged. Bitcoin is going to be boring. 1063 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,360 Bitcoin is going to be the GDP. Like that's just what's the 1064 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,080 market cap. It's like, what's the GDP of the 1065 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:21,680 world do? You agree with sailors 1066 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,360 prediction where he's saying $13 million base case by 2045? 1067 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,680 I mean, I, I don't think Sailor has the, the missing variable 1068 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,760 here is how much money will be in existence. 1069 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,520 It's like I have no desire to predict 20 years down the road 1070 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,560 because I think 20 years ago you could have never predicted the 1071 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:44,000 M0 like the base money supply in Canada, it quintupled in, in an 1072 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,240 18 month period. Like who's predicting that? 1073 00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:49,200 And what if that happens twice more in that same time frame? 1074 00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,040 13 million. No, no, no, it's like 100 1075 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,640 million. So yes, like it's going up 1076 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,360 because the politicians are in a state right now where they print 1077 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,360 or they 'cause, you know, mass catastrophe and failure. 1078 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,240 And I think that's something that we often ignore as 1079 00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:06,040 Bitcoiners is the only way that's kind of the game three 1080 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,400 playing up. The only way out of this is by 1081 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,960 holding an asset that's better than the sinking ship. 1082 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,320 The sinking ship is the money that everybody currently entire 1083 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,080 system is working on a sinking ship right now. 1084 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:18,560 You know, we've heard the analogy. 1085 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,080 Bitcoin is the lifeboat when you run out of lifeboats when they 1086 00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,200 get more expensive. And yeah, I just, I think that 1087 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:28,000 without question, number goes up for the long period, but 1088 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,880 eventually that stops because it's we as a society just get so 1089 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:33,680 much healthier with our finances. 1090 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,000 Investing will be a word that does not mean the same thing in 1091 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,640 50 a hundred. Percent because it's essentially 1092 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,320 the way that the system works now, right? 1093 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,480 And I want to talk about essentially the root thing that 1094 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,520 Bitcoin fixes, right? Essentially the way that 1095 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,120 investing works now is you have to you're forced to invest just 1096 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,440 to maintain your purchasing power, which is absolutely 1097 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,320 ludicrous. But if you want to identify the 1098 00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,200 root cause. And also just quickly, that all 1099 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,640 sounds fine. If if that was the case, it's 1100 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,840 like fine just to maintain, I have to invest. 1101 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,240 So I maintain fine. But it comes with the risk of 1102 00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:05,960 losing. Like you have two situations, 1103 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,000 you either hold or you invest. If you hold your guaranteed 1104 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,360 loss, if you invest, it's 5050 loser gain. 1105 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,760 So you have of the three options, 2/3 of those options, 1106 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:19,320 you have a 66% chance of loss and only a 33% chance of gain 1107 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,480 of. Money of money that you worked 1108 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,480 for, dude, right? Of money that you paid taxes, 1109 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,720 right? Like, and I think the 1110 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,520 essentially the root cause right, is inflation. 1111 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,520 Bitcoin fixes inflation. The more the more days that 1112 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,200 Bitcoin survives and the price goes up and not only proves that 1113 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,200 money can exist without inflation, it actually proves 1114 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,080 that money could be deflationary. 1115 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,200 No, it's not the correct technical word, but just for the 1116 00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,640 sake of the conversation, I think it describes it right. 1117 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,320 Everything essentially trends to 0 towards Bitcoin. 1118 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,120 And it's a very interesting phenomenon. 1119 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,680 You adopt Bitcoin, you start feeling those benefits, 1120 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,920 everything starts getting cheaper, your time preference 1121 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,440 starts getting larger because you're just like, dude, like, 1122 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,000 you know, I'll just wait a couple more years and that thing 1123 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,800 that I want is going to be half off essentially. 1124 00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,600 Yeah, man, so. What has inflation in your eyes 1125 00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,520 as a Bitcoiner class of 2013? What has inflation done to 1126 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,280 society? I think it misaligned incentives 1127 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,520 so poorly to the fact that it has created an invisible force, 1128 00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,120 which has eliminated the opportunity for for for fairness 1129 00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,760 and prosperity. And I think that when you look 1130 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,000 at a family unit, you know, the smallest form of community, 1131 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,040 which is, you know, call it even just a, a partnership, a husband 1132 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,720 and a wife that is designed to be in such a way where you have 1133 00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:40,920 the ability to think about your future and you have the ability 1134 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:45,400 to understand and think about what your goals are, make 1135 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,080 strides towards those goals, and then either achieve or miss 1136 00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:50,760 those goals, but on your own accord. 1137 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,760 And probably in that some of it is his kids. 1138 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,760 But now you know, your goals probably include a certain 1139 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,360 number of hours or a certain dedication to A cause. 1140 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,040 And so as a result, you know, for half the partnership, 1141 00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:08,240 usually the female variety, you're forced to choose. 1142 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,160 Do I want to, you know, be a part of those goals and 1143 00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,240 contribute because, you know, hey, we decided we wanted to 1144 00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:16,120 travel like this and have a house like this and drive a car 1145 00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,000 like that and have a lifestyle like this that's not attainable 1146 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,680 anymore, like we thought it would be. 1147 00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,680 So now I have to, you know, either enter or re enter the 1148 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,560 workforce. And so, you know, you make it 1149 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,040 work. And, you know, thank goodness 1150 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,960 the government's here and, and they, and they gave it the so 1151 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,160 there's maternity leave and there's systems set up and all 1152 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,240 the, you know, regulations and like good, I'm pro, I'm pro like 1153 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,640 inequality in, in, in that way. But now we have a generation 1154 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,320 coming into the world, which no longer has the luxury of, you 1155 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,440 know, a caring individual at the home who is, you know, making 1156 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,520 good food, educating in a certain way. 1157 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,520 And so, you know, last generation, what was it? 1158 00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,920 It was like, well, we're just going to eat out a little bit 1159 00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:57,760 more, right? Our food can come from a box, no 1160 00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,320 problem. So we get a little bit, you 1161 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,960 know, unhealthy. And so, you know, that creates 1162 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,920 an incentive to make quick dinners that taste good and who 1163 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,400 cares about health? So boom, like Fiat food, like 1164 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,800 there's the apocalypse in in health. 1165 00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,960 And then now what we're seeing even worse is I don't have time 1166 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:17,560 to cook. I don't have time to clean. 1167 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:19,560 And these kids are driving me crazy. 1168 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,960 I don't have the ability myself to even think because I'm, you 1169 00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:24,480 know, busy at work and doing all my stuff. 1170 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,560 So I dumped the screen into a kid and these, you know, 8 month 1171 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:33,640 old, 2 year old, 5 year old kids are buried in their screens from 1172 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,280 an early age. So we're at the point where 1173 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,480 their dopamine receptor, they don't ever properly learn how 1174 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,320 to, how to think, how to be bored, how to have an 1175 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:46,520 imagination, how to, how to be a kid and how to, how to develop 1176 00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,760 their brains in a certain way. And so that that's this next 1177 00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:54,680 generation coming in and, and even like even me, like my, my 1178 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,000 parents were, you know, relatively good with screen 1179 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,600 time. We're like at our house where 1180 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:04,240 superstars on it, but my brain is fried, my dopamine receptors 1181 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,560 are fried because of the dopamine that I receive as like 1182 00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,760 a 30 year old man. Like what does that do to the 1183 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,400 six year old? And and you know, it's so often 1184 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:22,880 like, oh, your kids crying iPad, your your toddler won't sleep 1185 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,200 show in the bed. No problem. 1186 00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,400 So what does it caused? It's like, what didn't it 'cause 1187 00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,520 man? Like as a result that we have a 1188 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:34,080 broken monetary system. We have families that can't 1189 00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,880 support themselves on a single income, which forces, you know, 1190 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,520 both, you know, parents into the workforce, which removes the 1191 00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,720 attention from from the child. Or reliance on the state. 1192 00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,880 Yes, exactly. Like so now I'm on food stamps 1193 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,800 and, and like, you know, it's just where does, where do we 1194 00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:49,080 end? Like we end up like Wall-e. 1195 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,840 Yeah, I mean, the, the it's it's very dark. 1196 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,440 It's we end up in slavery. Like essentially that's what it 1197 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:55,640 is. Like, I mean, like it it's 1198 00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,800 essentially a coercive system. It's a system based on theft. 1199 00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:02,680 Most people don't see that. And if it's a system based on 1200 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,880 theft, it needs coercion or to function. 1201 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,680 And the more theft occurs, the more tyrannical they become. 1202 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,560 Like, I remember there was this law that was passed or they 1203 00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,120 tried to pass it during the infrastructure bill, and 1204 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,920 essentially it was monitoring every $600.00 transaction had to 1205 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,440 be reported to the government. Crazy. 1206 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,800 Meanwhile, Dodge is getting in there and they're just 1207 00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,840 discovering all this type of misallocation and just blunt 1208 00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,760 fraud, right? That no one agreed was a good 1209 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:35,280 idea to spend on. And, you know, essentially, 1210 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,440 they're screaming bloody murder. They're saying, like, how could 1211 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,160 you audit the government? So, like, let me get this 1212 00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,320 straight. They can audit you at any 1213 00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,440 moment. If not, you go to jail. 1214 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,800 But the moment you decide to say, hey, like, what are you 1215 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,280 doing with my tax dollars? Like you can't know. 1216 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,280 Who do they work for? Like who's never been installed 1217 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,640 to protect and surf? I think as long as it's a Fiat 1218 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,040 standard, it's a government by the government for the 1219 00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:57,840 government. And I think that's really what 1220 00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,880 Bitcoin fixes. It aligns incentives in society 1221 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:02,560 again. And that's a really, really 1222 01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,040 beautiful future. And I think that's what we're 1223 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:05,400 fighting for, dude. It's crazy. 1224 01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,040 Just quickly on that, it's crazy how politicized the Doge like 1225 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,600 the Department of Government facility is. 1226 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,840 Like it's wild to me that there are just facts like here's the 1227 01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,920 receipts, here's the problem, here's the receipt. 1228 01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,240 And half the country is like, how dare you? 1229 01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,040 And it's like, regardless of who this is, like I was in in a, in 1230 01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,160 a chat with some friends and they were, they were talking 1231 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,160 about this. And he was like, don't think you 1232 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,840 wouldn't be sceptical if it was Biden or if it was Trudeau on 1233 01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,440 the other side of the doge. It's like, sure, be sceptical. 1234 01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:37,560 But when someone comes with a receipt and says here's a fact, 1235 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,440 here's a problem, we got rid of it, that's a good thing. 1236 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,440 I don't care what your last name is, that's just a good thing. 1237 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,040 I, I think, I think unfortunately a, a big 1238 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,440 percentage of people are essentially consuming legacy 1239 01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,520 media. And I think legacy media is able 1240 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,640 to paint a very, very a different narrative than what's 1241 01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,640 happening. And if you meet someone who 1242 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,840 consumes legacy media as their main source versus someone who 1243 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,440 consumes does their own research, like on X, YouTube, 1244 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:07,680 Roma, whatever platform, Noster Protocol, they live in totally 1245 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:08,960 different realities. Yeah, man, right. 1246 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,320 And you can tell within yeah, within a minute they. 1247 01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,720 Live in they live in totally, totally different realities, 1248 01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,760 man, but the future is bright. You know Bitcoin fixes these 1249 01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:20,200 things. I think it's going to be a hell 1250 01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,400 of a fight. And last question I'll ask you, 1251 01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,240 Adam, is what is the future of of Bitcoin? 1252 01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,480 Well, man, like what are you planning on, you know, five 1253 01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,520 years down the line, 10 years down the line? 1254 01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,040 Oh, I love that. I dude, I love thinking about 10 1255 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:35,880 years down the line because that's when that's what we're 1256 01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:37,640 building for. Like I think I've got, I've got 1257 01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,480 4 kids. I've got an 8 year old, A7 year 1258 01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,080 old, A5 year old and a three-year old. 1259 01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,200 And when I think 10 years down the line, they're they're all 1260 01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:46,840 teenagers, which is which blows my mind. 1261 01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,760 And they're all going to need to be meaningfully interacting with 1262 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,080 the world and with the economy. And we're building a world where 1263 01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,880 they never once have to think, where's my money? 1264 01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,800 Because they have some because they're working and producing in 1265 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,720 the world, but also they have custody of their money, but they 1266 01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:08,520 can still interact with the real world, interact with the current 1267 01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:10,440 world. I know that three years ago we 1268 01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,840 had Mahler's on stage like at the Bitcoin conference, you 1269 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,320 know, super jacked up. We're going to have you want to 1270 01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,040 go to Chipotle and Walmart like you do that pay with your 1271 01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,480 Bitcoin. It's like that's not coming to 1272 01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:24,240 USA for decades. Like we are so far away from 1273 01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,400 corporate America adopting Bitcoin in any meaningful way. 1274 01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,520 I went to El Salvador. I was surprised at how well it 1275 01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:34,760 worked, but also shocked at how little anyone knew about. 1276 01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,720 Like, it's like, you know, listen to this Puerto Π guy, 1277 01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,800 call him Bitcoin. I, there's my Spanish and it's 1278 01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,400 like, get the Bitcoin phone. Someone's got to get it dusted 1279 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,400 off, like turn it on. Oh, it's out of batteries. 1280 01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:46,400 Let's plug it. I guess it's not a good 1281 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:47,920 experience. No one's using it down there. 1282 01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:49,840 And that like, you know, up until recently it was legal 1283 01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,640 tender. It was like part of the part of 1284 01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,400 the thing. And so we are so far away and, 1285 01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,360 and I want to build a platform for the early adopters, for the 1286 01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:02,240 ones that are class of 2030 when you're still very early in 1287 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:03,840 20-30. I firmly believe this. 1288 01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,720 I want to build a spot for you to have to be a freedom maxi you 1289 01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:08,680 like. Our mission is to enable 1290 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:10,400 independence. You should have the ability to 1291 01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,600 hold and control your money and be able to use it. 1292 01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,240 And you know, we're currently in this current system, we have a 1293 01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:19,960 dilemma. You can either hold your money 1294 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,280 in cash. That's the only way you can hold 1295 01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:26,200 your money or you can use your money in a bank. 1296 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,160 I don't know about what it what it's like here, but I know that 1297 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,320 I got a really hard time paying for anything in EU or in in 1298 01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,000 Canada with cash. Like you can't buy a car with 1299 01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,360 cash. You can't, you can't buy a 1300 01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,120 obviously a house with cash. Like I went to the street or 1301 01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,280 down the street from the office to buy a sandwich with a $50.00 1302 01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:41,240 bill. They were like, we don't take 1303 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:42,400 50s. Like I was like, what? 1304 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,280 Like the sandwich is 13 bucks. You don't have $30 to give me 1305 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:46,600 back. Like this is ridiculous. 1306 01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,840 And so when you're forced withhold your money or use your 1307 01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:51,880 money, you're obviously going to choose used what because you 1308 01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,160 can't use and it creates negative incentives. 1309 01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,120 And so I want to build a world and a platform that allows 1310 01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:00,560 people to hold and use their money. 1311 01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,280 And that means we're a conduit to the, you know, traditional 1312 01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:06,400 Fiat world. If you want to pay your credit 1313 01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,360 cards with Bitcoin, no problem. You want to send money to your 1314 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,640 friend, no problem. You want to, you know, have your 1315 01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,400 paycheck deposited and then and then buy Bitcoin and send itself 1316 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,200 custody, no problem. But we're doing this the hard 1317 01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,280 way because I'm building this for my kids like, you know, the 1318 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,400 user growth and stuff. We're public like you, you know, 1319 01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:23,280 our investors will be very unpleased if I only thought 1320 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,560 about the 10 years. So obviously we're, we're, we're 1321 01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,800 working very hard to make sure that, you know, number go up in 1322 01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,720 the short term. But at the end of the day, I'm 1323 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,240 building a platform that I'm going to be very proud that my 1324 01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:37,800 kids use, not because, you know, daddy built it, but because it's 1325 01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,880 just the best platform to have the ability to interact with the 1326 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,560 Fiat world through Bitcoin in self custody. 1327 01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,600 Amazing, amazing. Well, Adam O'Brien, thank you so 1328 01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,480 much for joining me on since the Bitcoin IRL. 1329 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:50,600 Appreciate it bro. Appreciate it man.