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It is the mark of an educated 
mind to be able to entertain a 

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thought without accepting it. 
Welcome to Keith's night. 

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Don't try it on anyone and the 
libertarian Institute today. 

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We have dr. 
Michael humor. 

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He is the author of knowledge, 
reality and value. 

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A mostly Common Sense guide to 
philosophy. 

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Doctor humor. 
Where is the best place to buy 

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this? 
Excellent book? 

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So, they say eversion and the 
paperback, or on Amazon. 

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The hardcover is on Barnes & 
Noble because Amazon doesn't do 

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for her covers. 
Okay. 

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Got it. 
What is philosophy? 

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Oh, okay. 
Well, it's hard. 

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It's the other thing, the book 
you can't actually Define it in 

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but don't worry because you 
can't Define anything else 

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either. 
But the way that you get that 

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the way you get most Concepts is
by seeing examples of them. 

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Like when you explain what green
is the way you do. 

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That is by showing somebody some
green things, not by giving them

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a definition of green. 
So the way that people learn 

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what philosophy is is by seeing 
some examples of philosophy, 

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right? 
So I like to give examples like 

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the ship of Theseus problem and 
then you can observe some things

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about that. 
I don't know. 

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I don't know if the listeners on
there with this problem is 

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right, but briefly, there's a 
shift that. 

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Okay, Theseus is sale. 
His ship around the 

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Mediterranean Sea for like a 
decade or something. 

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And he periodically replacing 
individual pieces of the ship. 

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And then you imagine that at the
end of 10 years, the whole 

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thing, every piece has been 
replaced, but not all at once. 

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They were replaced individual 
pieces at different times, until

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eventually, all of them are 
place and then you have the 

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question at the end of the 10 
years, whether it's still the 

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same ship. 
Still have the ship that he had 

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it begin. 
Okay, and I like this as an 

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example of philosophy, because 
you can very clearly see that 

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this is not a scientific 
question. 

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Not a religious question either,
you know, it's not any other 

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kind of question besides the 
philosophical question, right? 

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You can see some things about 
this. 

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So like you can see that there 
could be arguments on either 

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side of this. 
That is a sort of thing that if 

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controversial is like, it's not 
obvious, what the answer is. 

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At the same time, you know, it's
not a scientific question 

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because you can see like there 
is no scientific investigation 

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to do that would help like you. 
It's not like oh if we do some 

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really careful measurements, 
we'll find out if it was the 

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same shaft right? 
When there's no experiment that 

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you can do, right? 
But, you know, they were sort of

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rational intuitive argument that
you can give for why it is or 

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isn't the same shit, right? 
And it's not just all your 

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opinion or whatever. 
And, you know, you don't just 

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like Express your feelings. 
Alright, so like the argument 

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that it's the same ship is. 
Well, if you just if you only 

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replaced one piece, you would 
think it was still the same 

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shit, right? 
All right, so you take the ship 

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at the beginning and then the 
ship after your place one. 

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Those are the thing, right? 
And then the ship after you 

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replace. 
One piece is the same as the 

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ship after you replace two 
pieces, right? 

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Okay. 
So if you if you buy that then 

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you can just go all the way to 
the end and then by the 

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transitivity of identity and get
the the first ship with the same

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ship as the last one, right? 
The same time, you can see that 

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there's an argument against it 
being the same because it's got 

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like zero percent overlap the 
components of the first one. 

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Okay. 
And so this is and you know, I 

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don't I bring this up not 
because of ship of Theseus is 

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intrinsically, such an important
problem. 

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Right? 
It's let there's not that much 

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discussion of it, right? 
But Because it's a good example 

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of a philosophical issue, right?
Also note that it's kind of, its

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kind of fundamental because like
this sort of problem applies to 

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every object that has a lot of 
carbs which is almost 

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everything, right. 
So it's a, you know, it's a 

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fairly sweeping issue. 
If it's not the same ship than 

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actually, you're probably not 
the same person to with your you

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know, 10 years ago because 
individual atoms go replaced in 

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your body, right? 
Right, like all the objects are 

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going to turn out the same 
anymore, right? 

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Okay. 
So anyway, that was all a long 

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lead into your your question of 
what philosophy is like, okay, 

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and I could give lots of other 
examples of, you know, bills, 

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lot more questions, which would 
then give the audience a better 

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stand to work philosophies 
about, but it would take a long 

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time. 
Each one of these I have to do 

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some discussion of. 
Yeah, that's what the excellent 

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books are for and I'm curious 
why you think philosophy is 

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important people, you know, 
there's the family. 

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Joke of Peter becomes a 
philosopher and all he does is 

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say why like in response to 
every he never answers anything.

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People will often think of 
philosophy as something that 

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just intellectuals do that has 
nothing to do with my everyday 

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life kind of a trivial Endeavor 
wise philosophy important. 

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Yeah. 
I was. 

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So first philosophers, don't 
generally just sit around saying

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why they generally try to 
present Arguments for an answer 

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to one of these? 
Puzzling questions, right? 

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And your why is it important? 
I mean a lot of the 

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philosophical questions are 
really a central import to just 

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your understanding of the world 
and your place in it. 

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So you may have questions. 
Like how should we live? 

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And, you know, it's like that 
seems kind of important don't 

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even notice that, that's not a 
scientific question, and it is 

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kind of answered by religions, 
but it's kind of answered 

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non-rational, he, right. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
Like questions about just the 

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general nature of the world, is 
everything predetermined or do 

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we have free? 
Will does the universe have a 

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beginning or did it always 
exist? 

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And it's sort of like, well, if 
you don't think those are 

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important than whether it is 
like that. 

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Those are sort of like the 
biggest questions there are, 

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right, but yes. 
Yeah, I mean, but other like, 

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some people just don't find it 
interesting when they just don't

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like them. 
And if that's the case, I can't 

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really do anything about that. 
Right? 

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Yes, a man named Bryan Caplan. 
Wrote this book open borders, 

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the science and ethics of 
immigration and on page 165. 

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He summarized a lot of 
philosophical theories. 

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So I want to list off a 
philosophical Theory, kaplan's 

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brief summary and let me know 
what you think about. 

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This Theory and general 
utilitarianism maximize, the sum

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of human happiness. 
Yes, are the only error in. 

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There is the word human hearing.
Think you should maximize. 

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Well, okay. 
Happiness could also be an 

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error, but they think that you 
should maximize enjoyment and 

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that applies to any being that 
can have enjoyment. 

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Most utilitarians are you know, 
Animal, Welfare, Advocates like 

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Peter Singer and is this 
something you think is a 

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legitimate philosophy? 
Or are there major holes in it? 

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I mean, I wouldn't say the 
illegitimate but I don't believe

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it true. 
Right? 

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So what's wrong with 
utilitarianism? 

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I mean, there's just a series of
intuitive counter-examples IE. 

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You can describe situations in 
which the theory recommend 

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something that strikes, both 
people have clearly wrong. 

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Alright, so maybe you know the 
maybe the most famous example is

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you have this you have a healthy
patient in the hospital. 

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You have five, other patients, 
who need organ transplants. 

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And somehow, the one healthy guy
is compatible with the other 

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five. 
And so, here's something you 

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could do. 
You could murder the healthy 

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patient and then distribute his 
organs to the five other 

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patients, right? 
And they all need different 

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organs. 
So, you know, like a lung kidney

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heart or liver whatever. 
And so you can save five lives 

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at the cost of one life. 
So on the utilitarian calculus, 

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you know, you're upset. 
Thought you're up for life. 

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So you have to do it, right? 
Not only permissible. 

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But actually it's obligatory, 
would be wrong. 

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If you don't murder the healthy 
Visionary. 

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And that strikes, most people as
wrong and they're just the whole

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bunch of examples that are like 
that, right? 

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Where it looks like you 
shouldn't do the thing that 

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produces overall, greater 
enjoying it. 

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Oh, yes. 
The second one is egalitarianism

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from the point of John Rawls. 
He says any qualities must 

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benefit. 
First off you think that is a 

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good philosophy. 
No, I mean there's a number 

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things I think went wrong with 
the girls. 

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Right. 
But I mean one of the 

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fundamental things is thinking 
that I guess thinking that 

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there's somebody who's 
responsible for the overall 

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distribution of stuff. 
Right? 

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And there are light and land 
like somebody need to justify 

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the overall distribution. 
I think that somebody people are

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responsible for individual 
pieces of property and you can 

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justify why a particular 
individual gets to have a 

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particular piece of property 
because of what the person did 

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to apartments, right, but then 
it turns out that there's some 

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overall And where there is 
inequality like one person wound

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up having more than another 
person. 

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And that could be because the 
person who has more, did more 

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productive activity, right? 
And it doesn't have to be that 

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there are other reasons like one
person with more could have just

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gotten lucky. 
Okay, but we're all his 

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philosophy. 
Applies. 

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Its supposed to apply across the
board, right? 

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So I'm not allowed to get more 
stuff by being more productive 

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without defying it to the people
who are worse off. 

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Like I have to pay off the poor 
people, to let me be more 

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productive and right to let me 
keep a portion of the stuff that

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I produced, but I have to 
justify why I get to do that by 

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saying. 
Well, I'm going to give to the 

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people who didn't prove, right? 
And I'm see why that's true. 

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Right? 
Sure. 

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Kaplan summarizes libertarianism
as from each as he chooses. 

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To each as he has chosen, he is 
drawing to summarize them. 

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In very, he gets five of them 
onto one page. 

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But what are your thoughts on 
libertarianism? 

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And that definition of it? 
Yeah. 

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I mean, that's very brief right?
By the way. 

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That phrase came from Robert 
nozik, right? 

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And of course, like, in case any
of the readers? 

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Don't know. 
This is like a in contrast to 

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Karl. 
Marx is dictum from each 

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according to his ability, and to
each, according to his need, 

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right? 
And so, now they say, Idea was 

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well, you know, Libertarians 
have a different principle for 

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distribution. 
It's that, you know, we like 

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they're worth of the Marxist. 
Say you should just contribute, 

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according to whatever, you're 
able to contribute to society 

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and know they says, no, you 
know, you should contribute. 

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What? 
You choose to contribute. 

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You don't have to contribute, 
anything, you could sit on your 

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ass all day. 
And then she reaches their 

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chosen what he meant by. 
That was well, you get money 

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when other people who have a 
give it to you, right? 

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So And they don't, like, not 
when you force them to give it 

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to you, but when they choose to 
give it to you, right? 

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And I bet, yeah, seems like a 
good idea, right? 

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That's it. 
That is in general a good idea 

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as readers. 
Know, I am myself. 

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A Libertarian was going to say 
an extreme libertarian in the 

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sense that I'm an anarchist. 
Although. 

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I think I'm not as Extreme as 
many other Libertarians in 

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there. 
The cost-benefit analysis, put 

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forth by Richard, Posner says, 
maximize, the total value of 

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social resources. 
What are your thoughts on this? 

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Yeah. 
I mean on the one hand that 

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found utilitarian. 
So it might have a problem with 

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ignoring people's rights. 
So, you know, like the example 

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with harvesting the organs looks
like it's like that would 

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justify turning everybody's 
organs into asset. 

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You know that other people can 
just take They need them more 

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than all that. 
Okay, so I don't like that, but 

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I do think that you should go 
through a cost-benefit analysis 

230
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,200
before implementing a policy 
because I think it's a necessary

231
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,500
condition on, you know, like the
government passing restrictions,

232
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,800
not sufficient, but it's 
necessary that whatever new laws

233
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,900
or regulations are making. 
Are going to work like not 

234
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:42,900
produce more harm than good or 
you know, not be 

235
00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:45,300
counterproductive to their aims 
and things like that. 

236
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,500
So you should have at minimum, 
look at how much it's costing 

237
00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:49,900
and how much benefit is 
producing. 

238
00:12:51,500 --> 00:12:55,600
Kaplan summarizes Christianity, 
as do unto others, as you would 

239
00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,400
have others, do unto you. 
Is that, is that something that 

240
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,100
you think is consistent? 
There are can be morally 

241
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:07,300
Justified. 
Well, so first, I don't think 

242
00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:09,400
that's a fair summary of 
Christian, maybe because there 

243
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,700
is no mention of Jesus in that. 
So here, but for God, right. 

244
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:17,900
But anyway, is that a good moral
principle odd, generally, yes, 

245
00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:20,700
but it's sort of imprecise. 
It's not going to get 

246
00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:24,100
everything, right? 
So, you know, an example that I 

247
00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:25,700
heard was what if there's like 
this? 

248
00:13:25,700 --> 00:13:28,400
Snake worshiper, who wants to be
thrown in a pit of snakes. 

249
00:13:28,900 --> 00:13:32,200
And so, therefore he throws 
other people in a bit of Faith. 

250
00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:34,300
Yeah. 
Okay. 

251
00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:39,400
Don't always do what you want 
other people to do to you, but 

252
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,800
still like there's sort of 
there's an underlying Insight, 

253
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,700
right? 
Which is sort of that when 

254
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:47,600
you're doing stuff you should 
sort of like try to see from 

255
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,200
other people's perspective, how 
the thing. 

256
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,500
You're doing looks right and 
you're not just always think in 

257
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:59,600
terms of what you want. 
And finally con thien ISM treat 

258
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,200
every person as an end in 
himself, never as a mere means. 

259
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,100
Yeah, there's you know, also 
there's a good Insight in this 

260
00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:10,300
right, but it's also not 
entirely correct. 

261
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:13,500
Right? 
So, you know, it's closely 

262
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:16,700
related to libertarianism which 
is which also appears in those 

263
00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:18,600
explode in Anarchy State and 
Utopia. 

264
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,000
He suggests that people have 
rights because of this contine 

265
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,900
idea. 
The reason why you can't violate

266
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,700
their rights is basically 
because respecting people's 

267
00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:32,000
rights is treating them as ends 
in themselves, but to wrong with

268
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,500
the content principle is just 
that I think there are Into it. 

269
00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:41,500
So, you know, if you had to kill
one innocent person in order to 

270
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:44,400
save the entire rest of the 
human species, I think you 

271
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:49,200
should do it even though that's 
violating the principle Kant 

272
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,600
would say. 
No, you can't do it. 

273
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,200
Even to save everyone else. 
Okay, you know, you guys like 

274
00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:57,100
maybe let's make it more 
extreme. 

275
00:14:57,100 --> 00:14:58,900
So it's more obvious to people, 
right? 

276
00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:03,100
So if you had to pluck a single 
hair off, an innocent persons 

277
00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:07,700
head with out there. 
Their consent and I would save 

278
00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:10,600
the rest of humanity. 
I think you should do it. 

279
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,000
Okay, even though that would be 
treating that one person as a 

280
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:20,600
meme and ended up. 
Yes finding Acceptance in 

281
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,800
Anarchy State and Utopia. 
No, Zack has the experience 

282
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,400
machine where he says Suppose 
there were an experience 

283
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,900
machine. 
That would give you any 

284
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:29,200
experience. 
You desire. 

285
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,900
Super duper neuropsychologist 
could simulate your brain. 

286
00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:37,600
So that you would Think and feel
you were writing a great novel 

287
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,500
or making a friend of reading an
interesting book all the time. 

288
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:43,200
You would be floating in a tank 
with electrodes attached to your

289
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,200
brain. 
Should you plug into the machine

290
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,400
for Life? 
Programming your life's 

291
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:52,300
experiences. 
Would you plug in know that? 

292
00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:57,400
Most people would not plug-in? 
Although I think that it depends

293
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,000
on how good your life is, so if 
you have a shitty life, I think 

294
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,000
you should plug in, but if your 
life is going pretty good. 

295
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,500
I don't think she's fucking but 
You know, basically, yeah, I 

296
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:09,300
basically agree with those 
things discussion there, right? 

297
00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:12,300
Like, well, we want to live in 
contact with reality. 

298
00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:14,300
We want to make actual 
Achievements. 

299
00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:17,400
Not merely have the experience 
of thinking it is. 

300
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:21,700
So, like, if somebody wants to 
climb Mount Everest, they don't 

301
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,400
merely want to be deceived into 
thinking that they climbed Mount

302
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,200
Everest, they want to actually 
do it because like, you know, 

303
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:31,600
planning a virtual reality 
simulation of climbing. 

304
00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:33,800
The mountain is not a great 
achievement. 

305
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,400
Actually climbing. 
It is a great achievement. 

306
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,700
Right? 
And you're like, yeah, you can 

307
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:43,800
imagine the size. 
So what what is it that, you 

308
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,900
know, real people is really 
pushing people to not plug-in. 

309
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:51,900
Is it because you in the real 
world, you actually have an 

310
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:55,600
effect on the lives of other 
real humans who have the ability

311
00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,300
to feel emotions or is it you 
actually achieving something on 

312
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:04,800
your own as opposed to it not 
being a Reality. 

313
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,000
Yeah, I mean it's both right. 
So, like a utilitarian or 

314
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,099
altruistic would say, oh no, I 
can't plug in because then I 

315
00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:14,500
won't be helping other people, 
right? 

316
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,900
Because, you know, then he will.
The First new plug-in will be 

317
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:20,200
having great experiences, but he
won't be causing other people 

318
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,800
that are hurting since, right. 
So, okay, but even if you could 

319
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,700
plug everyone in imagine, you 
can just make everyone be 

320
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:29,400
plugged into the experience 
machine forever. 

321
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:32,100
I still don't think you should 
do that, right? 

322
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,200
Okay, so, like, you know, it's a
valid point that you won't. 

323
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,400
Like, if you have a family 
you'll be abandoning your 

324
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,100
family, right? 
Hmm. 

325
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,000
Your kids will just grow up on 
their own if you have any kids, 

326
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,400
right? 
So that's kind of bad. 

327
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,200
But also like, even if you 
imagine that, you could plug all

328
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,400
of them into the experience, 
which means to it, still 

329
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,200
wouldn't seem so great. 
And that's partly because, like,

330
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,100
everything that you're doing, 
like, everything you experience 

331
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:57,700
is a lie. 
All of your projects are just a 

332
00:17:57,708 --> 00:18:01,600
lie, wait, like you think that 
you did something worthwhile and

333
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,200
it's just a complete deception 
because you know, you didn't 

334
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,100
actually do it. 
Let's say I'm sorry. 

335
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:09,400
Did you have anything else on 
that? 

336
00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:14,100
No, go ahead. 
Let's say we have two different 

337
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,400
people who have both stabbed and
killed. 

338
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,200
Someone one person was in a 
kitchen, very stressed out 

339
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,400
slipped with a knife and killed 
someone. 

340
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,700
It was a terrible accident. 
The person is very upset in the 

341
00:18:28,708 --> 00:18:30,800
second scenario. 
A guy. 

342
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,700
I felt as though he was insulted
and then intentionally stabbed 

343
00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:36,400
the guy to kill him. 
So in both scenarios, Else we 

344
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,900
have people who have taken 
knives and ended the lives of 

345
00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:43,100
innocent peaceful people. 
Do you think there should be a 

346
00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:47,300
difference in their sentencing 
and how they are treated? 

347
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:54,300
It seems like an easy question. 
So if the answer is yes, what is

348
00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:57,700
the explanation for why these 
two people should be treated 

349
00:18:57,700 --> 00:18:59,500
differently? 
Considering they did the same 

350
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:04,600
thing. 
One of them started. 

351
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,600
One of them deserves worse 
treatment and the other one. 

352
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,900
That's like a short short 
version of the answer. 

353
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:11,500
Right? 
Why does he deserve worse 

354
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:12,700
treatment? 
Okay, because one of them 

355
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:15,400
intended to kill another person 
and the other one, didn't attend

356
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,200
like, you know, the intention is
part of responsibility, the one 

357
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,000
who did it by accident, could 
still have some - dessert 

358
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,500
because maybe they should have 
been more careful, you know, but

359
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:29,900
I like intentionally killing 
someone. 

360
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,900
Just deliberately trying to kill
someone who's worse than merely 

361
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:37,300
being careless or whatever. 
So right do you think it's 

362
00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:44,400
immoral to drive drunk? 
But to some degree, right? 

363
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,900
I mean, let's say it's it. 
It's morally wrong to drive very

364
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:51,900
drunk without having a really 
good reason, right? 

365
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:58,700
Yeah, and why is that imposes? 
An unreasonable risk on others? 

366
00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:03,600
So yeah, so like you're allowed 
to impose some risk, but at a 

367
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,300
certain like it becomes 
excessive and you don't need to 

368
00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:08,600
do it then at some point it 
becomes a moral. 

369
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,400
Yes, the book is knowledge, 
reality and value. 

370
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:17,300
In a lot of your ethical 
thinking, you use a common 

371
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,800
sense, morality approach. 
Why do you use that as opposed 

372
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,600
to say a strict deontological 
approach? 

373
00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:27,700
Because I care about the truth. 
That's right. 

374
00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:33,400
Very right. 
So just in general, the way that

375
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,900
human beings know things the way
that human beings learn is 

376
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:42,600
starting from the concrete, and 
generalizing to the abstract and

377
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,100
not the other way around. 
And so I observed at that, as a 

378
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:48,900
as a general matter in almost 
all areas. 

379
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:52,100
If you start from abstract 
generalizations on start to do 

380
00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:54,800
things consequences from it, it 
It work. 

381
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,100
It goes badly. 
So because what happens is like 

382
00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:01,400
you start from an abstract 
generalization, that sounds good

383
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,400
to you at the start but it's 
totally wrong and you're not 

384
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,500
going to notice that it's 
totally wrong until you look at 

385
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:12,200
that particular examples, but 
then if you're you know, 

386
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,800
dogmatic in the way that most 
philosophers historically have 

387
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,100
been, you just deduce the fault 
consequences and just embrace 

388
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:21,400
them because, you know, because 
of the order, in which these 

389
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,300
thoughts occurred to you, 
because you started with the 

390
00:21:23,300 --> 00:21:25,600
abstract. 
Asian and then only later saw 

391
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,300
the counter examples, so then 
you just insist the thing. 

392
00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:29,800
These started with us to betray 
him. 

393
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,900
Like this is a thing that has 
happened repeatedly in the 

394
00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:36,200
history of philosophy. 
No, but basically it's super 

395
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,000
hard to come up with a universal
generalization that's always 

396
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,700
true without first going through
a ton of examples. 

397
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,700
You have to first go through all
the concrete examples to see 

398
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,800
what you think about them before
you can reasonably generalize, 

399
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:52,000
right? 
And so that's part of what I'm 

400
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,200
doing like. 
So my approach to ethics is I 

401
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,300
look at a concrete example where
there's a pretty uncontroversial

402
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:03,300
intuitive verdict about it. 
And then I draw an analogy 

403
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:07,500
between that and a case that is 
controversial, in order to try 

404
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:11,600
to resolve the controversy in 
the book. 

405
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:16,400
You are mention the 
unappreciated idea that most 

406
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,500
people throughout all of history
were generally accepted the 

407
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:25,600
concept of slavery and today 
they wide Lee say that it is 

408
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:29,400
something terrible. 
How do you think blatantly 

409
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,300
unjustified institutions are 
able to exist for so long 

410
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:38,100
without being questioned? 
Yeah, good question rights. 

411
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,300
I mean, part of the answer is 
status quo bias. 

412
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:45,600
Most people have a huge bias in 
favor of whatever way things are

413
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,500
currently being done in their 
own society. 

414
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,300
And, you know, part of the 
answer is most people are just 

415
00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:55,100
not reflective. 
So they just don't think they 

416
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:58,700
just do not ask themselves. 
Whether this is okay. 

417
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:00,800
They just keep doing it because 
that's what other people are 

418
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,100
doing. 
And also part of the answer is 

419
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:05,600
like most people are naturally 
bad. 

420
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:10,400
Right, like people are extremely
selfish and have a very small 

421
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,200
amount of moral motivation. 
Right? 

422
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,600
And so, it's just kind of like 
to take a long time and take a 

423
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,600
long time for them to figure out
what's right, you know, when 

424
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,600
most people are not trying to 
figure it out, right? 

425
00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:28,200
So, why would you say that 
things like murder, rape and 

426
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,300
slavery are wrong? 
If it is there any way outside 

427
00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:34,600
of the Common Sense morality 
approach? 

428
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,700
If you're talking to someone who
lives in a society where murder 

429
00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:40,500
rape and slavery are sort of 
just the norm. 

430
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:43,700
Yeah, I mean, I don't think 
there's any to fighting which 

431
00:23:43,700 --> 00:23:48,700
murder and rape or okay, but I 
would add a qualification or 

432
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:53,100
many Societies in which it would
be accepted to attack. 

433
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:57,000
A neighboring, try to attack 
another society and murder and 

434
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,300
rape. 
Those people that's been widely 

435
00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:02,100
accepted, but murdering and 
raping within your tribe. 

436
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:06,100
Not, okay. 
But anyway, yeah, what would I 

437
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:08,900
say to the? 
All right, and then, you know, 

438
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:10,700
slavery widely practiced as we 
said. 

439
00:24:10,700 --> 00:24:13,500
So, And what would I say to the 
people in those societies? 

440
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,600
Like if they wanted to reason 
with me, you know, like start 

441
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,500
saying, okay. 
So so you think that it's okay 

442
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:22,300
to attack these neighboring crop
tribes? 

443
00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:25,300
Why. 
How were they different from you

444
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,400
then? 
Like they seem like a lot like 

445
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,200
you would be pulling hard drive,
you know, they have their own 

446
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:34,200
concerns, their own lives that 
they're trying to lead and do 

447
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,400
the same sorts of concerns that 
you have and they love their 

448
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,300
family, just like you do. 
Like why do you think that 

449
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:41,100
they're different? 
So you can attack them? 

450
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,000
And I think they basically would
have no answer to that. 

451
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,200
I think we would have just never
thought of it. 

452
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,000
Now. 
I don't think that I would 

453
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,900
actually succeed because I think
that the people in the Primitive

454
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:56,100
tribes would just refuse to 
entertain the moral questions 

455
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:57,600
because I think they would not 
care. 

456
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:04,900
Do you have a general method for
determining morally Justified 

457
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:08,900
behavior from immoral. 
So like, for example, if pretend

458
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:12,000
you had never heard of jury duty
for the first time and you find 

459
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,700
out in America, there is 
something where people are 

460
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,200
composed to serve serve on a 
jury, in order to determine the 

461
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,700
guilt or innocence of someone on
trial. 

462
00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:26,700
How would you go about 
determining right from wrong 

463
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:30,500
Behavior? 
Well, you mean whether it's okay

464
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:33,500
to force them to serve or they 
could do when they're on a 

465
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:35,800
journey. 
I was just using that, that is 

466
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:41,000
an example of when people. 
Most people who I speak with on 

467
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,400
this, haven't really sat down 
and thought about, whether it's 

468
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,600
Justified. 
They just say, of course it is, 

469
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,200
and then move on. 
And then treat me like a prick 

470
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,300
when I ask any follow-up 
questions. 

471
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:56,000
How would you determine whether 
this was justified or 

472
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,300
unjustified? 
Yeah. 

473
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:01,200
I mean, so, you know, the 
general thing is I would try to 

474
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,800
think of something else that 
most people agree with, that is 

475
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,900
analogous. 
Right? 

476
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:10,600
So like I didn't, you know, 
what, if I have some work that 

477
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,800
needs to be done here in my 
condo. 

478
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,800
I like, you know, I got some 
stuff that needs to be fixed and

479
00:26:15,808 --> 00:26:18,600
what if I just like, pick a 
random person and force them to 

480
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,500
come up and do the work for me. 
That's not all right, is it, 

481
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,000
right? 
And then you just say, you know,

482
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,500
it wasn't that kind of analogous
to it. 

483
00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:29,400
The government thing. 
Some work needs to be done. 

484
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,900
We're just going to pick random 
people and force them to do it, 

485
00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:34,000
right, you know, why is that 
different? 

486
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,000
And then you know and then you 
have to have a discussion when 

487
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,000
they try to say that it's 
different and you discuss 

488
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,800
whether really is different in 
the way that they say or 

489
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,100
whatever. 
And how do you find that 

490
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:47,700
difference? 
So often I'll be in a discussion

491
00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:50,400
or just thinking about something
myself and I'll know that 

492
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,300
something is different, but it's
hard to determine whether it's 

493
00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:57,100
arbitrarily different or it's 
different in principle. 

494
00:26:57,100 --> 00:27:01,200
How can you Tell if something's 
different arbitrarily or 

495
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:05,300
different in principle. 
Well, I mean you just tried to 

496
00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:07,900
think of trying to think of what
the difference is. 

497
00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:12,000
Our then you ask yourself if 
those are relevant and sometimes

498
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,500
it just seems obvious that it's 
not right. 

499
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,000
But if you think of something 
that seems like it's relevant, 

500
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,000
then you try to think of other 
examples, how you that it, you 

501
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,900
try to think of examples that we
remove that different. 

502
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,300
Okay, so you go. 
Let's see there. 

503
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:31,700
Different that the jury duty. 
It's the government for us and 

504
00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:33,300
you and not somebody else. 
Maybe that's a girl. 

505
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:35,700
Okay. 
So what if the government forces

506
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:39,100
you to go dig ditches, the that?
Okay. 

507
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,400
Thank God. 
Okay, they want to build a new 

508
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,500
highway and they just like, grab
people random people and just 

509
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:47,600
say, okay, you're now Highway 
worker. 

510
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,100
Right? 
And you're just sitting there, 

511
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,200
you know, with a cop's holding 
guns, porting that you have to 

512
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,800
make sure that you keep it like 
that. 

513
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,400
Doesn't seem okay, really? 
Anyway, so So, yeah, you just 

514
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,000
have to like sort of trying to 
think of what the differences 

515
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,800
might be and try to think of any
of them are relevant. 

516
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,900
Michael sandel wrote a book 
called, what money can't buy the

517
00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:12,200
moral limits of markets and he 
says, why worry? 

518
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,600
That we are moving toward a 
society in which everything is 

519
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,100
up for sale for two reasons, 
inequality, and Corruption 

520
00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:21,000
consider an equality in a 
society where everything is up 

521
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,300
for sale. 
Life is harder. 

522
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,600
For those of modest means the 
more money can buy the more 

523
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,400
affluence or lack of it matters.
Putting a price on the good 

524
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,300
things in life can also corrupt 
them. 

525
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:34,000
That's because markets don't 
only allocate Goods. 

526
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,000
They also And promote certain 
attitudes towards the goods. 

527
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,700
Being exchanged. 
What do you think about that 

528
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:44,500
from the standpoint of someone 
who's a Libertarian? 

529
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,100
Yeah, which, which is always my 
standpoint, huh? 

530
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:50,900
I mean, that there are two 
arguments there. 

531
00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:53,900
One is. 
So it makes life more difficult 

532
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:56,900
for people of modest means. 
I don't think that's true. 

533
00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:00,600
So like the possibility of 
buying something can make your 

534
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,100
life easier and if you can't 
afford it. 

535
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,100
It then it doesn't make your 
life easier, but having people 

536
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:11,300
prohibit you from buying, it 
doesn't help either because you 

537
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:14,200
still can't buy him. 
Right, right. 

538
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,900
Okay, so I think about things 
like kidney sales, like, all 

539
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:19,800
right. 
Should I be able shy to be able 

540
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,300
to get paid for donating a 
kidney to that? 

541
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,200
Some person who need they can 
survive? 

542
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,200
And then, you know, because 
that's illegal. 

543
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,200
It's impossible for anyone to 
buy it. 

544
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,900
That doesn't mean that now poor 
people get kidneys. 

545
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,700
They still don't get kidneys 
because they still can't buy 

546
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:40,300
them back into. 
Now. 

547
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:42,600
It's just that nobody can buy 
them, that doesn't even poor. 

548
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,100
People are better off at, if you
could sell them, at least the 

549
00:29:46,108 --> 00:29:48,700
wealthy people could give him. 
At least their lives will be 

550
00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:50,700
saved. 
The poor people will be just as 

551
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:54,000
dead. 
I do anyway, okay, but also, you

552
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,400
know, if you're worried about 
the pork is the different 

553
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,000
solution. 
This isn't my view, but this is 

554
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,700
a more rational view, just 
subsidize it. 

555
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:04,000
If you're worried that the poor 
people won't be able to. 

556
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:07,100
Ford the kidneys have the 
government, you know, just like 

557
00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:09,600
subsidize the purchase of kidney
so that they could buy it, 

558
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:11,700
right? 
Give them like a kidney voucher 

559
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:15,700
or something. 
And then the other the other 

560
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,500
argument that he had, there was 
something about expressing 

561
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:21,900
attitude, like, oh, you'll be 
expressing the wrong attitudes 

562
00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,200
towards kidneys or whatever. 
Like I think that's one of the 

563
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,800
main things that you thinking 
about, right? 

564
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,200
Somebody Park. 
And I just think, you know, I 

565
00:30:30,208 --> 00:30:33,400
don't know if it's true, but I 
think it's just a completely 

566
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,500
trivial. 
Federation, I'd like, oh, you'll

567
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:39,600
be expressing a bad attitude 
about kidneys. 

568
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,400
If you sell one or if you buy 
one. 

569
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,900
Okay, I think that's totally 
trivial in comparison with the 

570
00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:50,200
avoidable death of the disease. 
Sufferers, right? 

571
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:53,000
Okay, and like here's an example
that I have. 

572
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:58,400
So compared to cases, right 
case, one Ted and murder stare 

573
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,900
on case to Jill says Jack is an 
ass. 

574
00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:06,600
Whole and his interests and 
rights, don't matter. 

575
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,100
And then she puts that on a 
giant billboard, by the freeway 

576
00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:13,600
where everyone sees, you know, 
Jack Jack's Mike doesn't matter 

577
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:16,600
and then she tweeted to her 10 
million followers. 

578
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:18,100
Okay. 
So those are two different 

579
00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:20,700
things that you could do 
murdering the person and putting

580
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:23,000
out this message. 
Which one is worse. 

581
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,900
Okay, and how much works? 
Okay. 

582
00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:31,400
I think the first one I think 
the actual murdering is like 

583
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,000
about a billion times worse than
putting. 

584
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,500
Billboard and putting up the 
offensive tweak. 

585
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:41,000
And what they showed is that 
sending negative messages is 

586
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,100
like a trivial harm that the 
trivial wrong in comparison with

587
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:49,500
a death of a human being. 
All right, the problem with Ted 

588
00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:52,900
murdering Sarah is not that he 
conveyed a bad message about 

589
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:55,700
Sarah. 
It's that Sarah is now dead, 

590
00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:58,500
right? 
And so, similarly, with the, you

591
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:03,900
know, kidney sale issue, all of 
these people dying, just swamp. 

592
00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:07,600
With the Badness of people 
sending negative messages or, 

593
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,400
you know, whatever. 
The message is supposed to be. 

594
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:14,700
Yes, Jason Brennan wrote about 
that in a great book. 

595
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:18,400
I think it's titled. 
Oh gosh, I can't believe it. 

596
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,200
Slipping my mind. 
What are the limits markets 

597
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,500
Without Limits? 
Yes. 

598
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:26,400
Thank you. 
And he said there's about 

599
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,600
100,000 people on the kidney 
waiting list and the vast 

600
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,600
majority are going to die 
because of, but because of this 

601
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,400
legislation that stops people 
from compensating others for 

602
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,400
giving them their that their 
kidney. 

603
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,100
Let's take a an example similar 
to the message one. 

604
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:50,500
Do you think it's immoral for me
to say start a campaign that 

605
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:54,900
everyone should force Ted to 
give me money. 

606
00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:59,000
I don't know who this guy is, 
but I know he lives near me. 

607
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:02,400
People should force him to give 
me money or we should all 

608
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,800
collectively. 
Put him in a cage and then shoot

609
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,700
him. 
If he resists, I think people 

610
00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:10,800
would say that is unjustified. 
However, This is in principle. 

611
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,700
No different than advocating, 
Socialism or taxation is someone

612
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:17,000
immoral for advocating 
socialism. 

613
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,900
And should that be illegal? 
I get that the moral. 

614
00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:23,400
Yeah, I don't think it should be
illegal. 

615
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,900
But, you know, like I mean, it's
like that thing, you know, 

616
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:32,600
saying that your neighbor should
be put in a cage unless he 

617
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,700
agrees to give you money. 
I think that I think you 

618
00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:38,500
shouldn't say that but I don't I
wouldn't put you in jail if you 

619
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,800
say that, right? 
Why not? 

620
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,600
And, you know, so one of the 
things that we have to consider 

621
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,600
about like when you're making 
laws, is we have to think about 

622
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,200
the overall effect, you know, 
Authority, if the government is 

623
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,900
able to make laws about what 
political positions you can 

624
00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:58,600
Advocate, right? 
So even if it's totally immoral 

625
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,400
to Advocate this political 
position. 

626
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:02,500
If the government is, they're 
deciding what political 

627
00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:06,300
positions are immoral and like 
prohibiting you from advocating 

628
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:11,199
war that it thinks are immoral. 
You know, we're going to 

629
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,900
totalitarianism right. 
And he they're obviously just 

630
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:18,100
going to use that power to 
prevent anyone from criticizing 

631
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:21,000
them and then and you're like 
that's what happens in communist

632
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,000
dictatorships and so on, right? 
So that's one problem. 

633
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,100
You know, the other thing is, I 
mean, just like from a 

634
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:33,100
philosophical standpoint. 
Mirror, words are not 

635
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:37,400
sufficient, provocation for 
violence the light, right? 

636
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,800
I mean let except in exceptional
circumstances. 

637
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,800
Let's say right? 
But most of the time, if you're 

638
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,600
just saying, hey, you know, 
somebody should do something 

639
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,500
wrong, but, you know, like just 
in general, you're just like, 

640
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:53,800
throwing it out there to the 
world that people should do some

641
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,200
things, which in fact are wrong.
Usually, that's not enough of a 

642
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,000
reason for other people to do 
violence against you. 

643
00:35:01,500 --> 00:35:05,000
What is the thesis of your book?
Ethical intuition is mmm. 

644
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,500
Yeah, by the way, I'm glad that 
you pronounce that correctly 

645
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:13,200
because about half of about 
having people that we interview 

646
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,900
me and use that title 
mispronounce it, I bought the 

647
00:35:17,908 --> 00:35:21,100
book and read it. 
So yes, some people call it 

648
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:22,700
intuitive ISM. 
Other people call it 

649
00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:26,400
institutional advancement and 
house into which is about 

650
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,700
anyway. 
Yeah, I mean there's a few ideas

651
00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:33,400
in ethical intuition isn't 
right. 

652
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:38,300
So one important idea is that 
there are Values either there 

653
00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:40,900
are objective facts about 
something being right wrong. 

654
00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:43,600
Good or bad. 
Like it's objectively wrong to 

655
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:45,200
torture. 
Babies for fun. 

656
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:49,500
Another thing is about how we 
know this and roughly, we know 

657
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:53,300
this because we have ethical 
intuitions, these ethical 

658
00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:58,000
intuitions are cases where when 
you just sort of intellectually,

659
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,700
reflect on some questions, 
something seems to you right or 

660
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:04,900
wrong. 
Like, when I think about 

661
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:07,700
torturing babies for fund, it 
just seems wrong to me. 

662
00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:11,600
And so that's something like to 
worship the way that I know that

663
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,700
it's wrong. 
Is it seems wrong to me? 

664
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,000
And I have no reason for 
thinking otherwise no reason for

665
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,200
doubting that intuition. 
And then and then there's 

666
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,900
another part about what reason 
do we have fraction, which is 

667
00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:28,800
basically your reasons for 
Action in virtue of having these

668
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,700
ethical beliefs. 
Like, if and independent of you 

669
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:38,400
Dyer's, so even if you want to 
torture babies, you you have a 

670
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,800
reason for not doing it because 
We're gonna bleed out the 

671
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,300
intuition that it's wrong to do 
it. 

672
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,200
Hopefully what is the thesis of 
your book? 

673
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:52,900
Dialogues on vegetarianism? 
Yeah, Dialogue on ethical 

674
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:57,700
vegetarianism. 
It's wrong to buy products from 

675
00:36:57,700 --> 00:37:03,100
factory farms, right? 
Which you know, mostly people 

676
00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:04,900
are buying meat from factory 
farms. 

677
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:07,900
And most of the time, people are
eating meat that they got from 

678
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:10,300
factory farms. 
That's like 99% or something. 

679
00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:13,000
Okay. 
So the short version is stopped 

680
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:18,000
eating meat and the more precise
version is stop buying Products 

681
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:24,900
that come from factory farms. 
And this is because they engage 

682
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:28,200
in killing animals which 
involves the animal suffering, 

683
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:29,700
right? 
Yeah. 

684
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,400
So, you know, factory farms are 
the source of something like 99%

685
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:39,200
of the animal products in the 
world and we're killing 

686
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:44,600
something in the neighborhood of
74 billion animals per year, in 

687
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,200
order to, in order to get these 
products, you know, because we 

688
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,500
like, beasting on their flesh 
because it's fun. 

689
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,500
Okay, and that's like, you know,
that's close to 10 times, the 

690
00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:56,400
entire human population of the 
world. 

691
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,000
And then, you know, if you'd 
like, you can go online and look

692
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,900
at these videos and what the 
conditions are like in the 

693
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:04,300
factory farms, and it's 
basically like torture, like, if

694
00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:07,400
you are holding a person in 
those conditions, we would say 

695
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,700
you were torturing person. 
Alright, and so like a total 

696
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:13,800
amount of suffering that were 
causing every year is 

697
00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:18,500
astronomical website, right? 
Did clearly greater than all the

698
00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:22,200
human suffering that's going. 
On the back a few years of 

699
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,000
factory farming might produce 
more suffering that all the 

700
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,100
suffering and human history that
they actually a fairly plausible

701
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:31,900
estimate ring because there have
only ever been 110 billion 

702
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:35,600
humans and we're killing 74 
billion animals every year. 

703
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,000
So like two years, we kill more 
animals and all the humans have 

704
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,000
ever existed and we tortured 
both of them for months before 

705
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,400
killing it, right. 
So it's plausible that we're 

706
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,800
inflicting more suffering than 
all the suffering and human 

707
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,900
history every few years. 
Wow. 

708
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,500
Yeah, that is definitely a you 
have a very good point. 

709
00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:57,800
Now one hurdle to that could be 
well is the problem the type of 

710
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,100
factory farm and the method of 
killing and the method of 

711
00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:04,600
holding them before killing 
another words, if all those were

712
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,000
sort of more or less solved, 
there was an open field and the 

713
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,400
killing was just a quick shot 
that they didn't even feel and 

714
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,700
you did it while they were 
asleep. 

715
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,200
Would that justify killing 
animals for the purpose of 

716
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,100
eating them? 
I'm not sure. 

717
00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:24,000
So I mean, you know, this has so
like I mean first, I'm not sure 

718
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,200
this is practically relevant 
because I'm not sure that that's

719
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,200
like a thing that might happen. 
But but there is, you know, 

720
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,600
there they sort of free-range 
and we'll products. 

721
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,800
And there are these Animal 
Welfare organizations that go 

722
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,000
and, you know, examine Farms to 
make sure that their Humane. 

723
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,000
And then sometimes you see this 
Humane certified label on 

724
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,400
products, which means one of 
these Animal, Welfare 

725
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,500
organizations. 
Examine, you know, Their 

726
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:49,900
practices and decided was Humane
enough. 

727
00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:52,000
And so you could have a 
reasonable question about 

728
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,900
whether it's okay to buy those 
products. 

729
00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:59,700
Now, I think it's questionable 
because you're still saying 

730
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:04,100
like, you know, it's like I can 
end the life of this other 

731
00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:09,000
creature just because I get a 
little more pleasure like just 

732
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,200
just for fun, right? 
It's like a little bit more 

733
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,400
pleasure during meal times. 
Like, if that's the only reason 

734
00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:19,900
that does strike me as pretty. 
Noble if you have a stronger 

735
00:40:19,900 --> 00:40:22,700
reason that I think it's okay. 
All right. 

736
00:40:22,700 --> 00:40:25,000
So like if you have like a 
medical reason why you need the 

737
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,400
animal products, then I think 
it's okay, you know, to kill 

738
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,500
them painlessly without all the 
torture. 

739
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,600
In the happiness. 
Hypothesis. 

740
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,100
Jonathan haidt. 
Has a short, of course, fake 

741
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:42,500
story to what try to display, 
the difficulty of winning an 

742
00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:45,200
argument. 
He says, Julie and Mike are 

743
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:47,400
Julie and Mark are sister and 
brother. 

744
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:50,100
They are traveling together in 
France on summer vacation from 

745
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:51,300
college. 
One night. 

746
00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:53,300
They are staying alone in a 
cabin, near a beach. 

747
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,100
They decided would be 
interesting and fun if they 

748
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:58,400
tried making love at the very 
least, it would be a new 

749
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,000
experience for each of them. 
Julie is already taking birth 

750
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,200
control, but Mark uses. 
Condom too, just to be safe. 

751
00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:06,900
They both enjoy making love but 
side not to do it again. 

752
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:10,800
They keep that night, a special 
secret, which makes them feel 

753
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,000
even closer to each other. 
Do you think this is acceptable 

754
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,400
for two? 
Consenting adults? 

755
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,000
Who happen to be siblings? 
Make love. 

756
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,800
How would you justify that 
judgment? 

757
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,000
Yeah. 
So wait, so you're asking me if 

758
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,600
it's okay. 
Well, no. 

759
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,600
The whole point is. 
Okay, your position. 

760
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,200
Let's say it's an obvious. 
No. 

761
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,000
Well, how would you? 
Justify that. 

762
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,700
No, I don't. 
I don't see anything wrong with 

763
00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:38,500
it. 
I don't see what the problem is,

764
00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:41,800
right? 
Okay, but but I know that 

765
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,500
because I, you know, well, I 
know partly because I'm a normal

766
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:48,300
human being and also because 
I've read Jonathan Heights work 

767
00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:51,400
that most people say it's not. 
Okay. 

768
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:53,900
And then they try to explain 
why. 

769
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,600
And then they give false 
reasons, they say, oh, well, you

770
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,800
know, like there's a risk of 
birth defects from incest, 

771
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,200
right? 
And by the way, Really only 

772
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,800
showed up after you do multiple 
generations of incestuous 

773
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,600
breeding. 
So and anyway, hype put into the

774
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,900
scenario that they use two forms
of birth control. 

775
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:15,500
So it's super improbable that 
there would be any child that 

776
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:20,100
also like you put all these 
things in this scenario, to try 

777
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:22,700
to eliminate the negative 
consequences. 

778
00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:26,500
There's with results, right? 
So then at that point, I really 

779
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,600
sure what the problem is. 
Like, I think there would be 

780
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,600
problems if they were if they 
like they're interbreeding for 

781
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,800
multiple Generations in 
producing Offspring or think 

782
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,700
there would be problems if 
they're going around telling 

783
00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:42,800
everybody else that incest is 
great and they're doing it but 

784
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,300
you know in the scenario is 
described. 

785
00:42:44,300 --> 00:42:47,900
You don't really see a problem. 
Do you think it's immoral for 

786
00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:55,000
people to actively promote 
political policies that they 

787
00:42:55,100 --> 00:42:56,800
have done little to no research 
on? 

788
00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:04,000
Yes. 
Yeah, I think I mean You know, I

789
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,800
think it's I guess lightly 
immoral because the chances of 

790
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,800
your actually having an effect 
on public policy are very small,

791
00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:14,300
but it's immoral because you 
know, there's a chance that you 

792
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:17,200
bring to cause other people's 
rights to be violated and cause 

793
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,900
just harm in general. 
Even if you don't believe in 

794
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:22,500
rights, there's still a pretty 
good chance that you're going to

795
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:26,900
be causing harm, you know in the
unlikely event that you have an 

796
00:43:26,900 --> 00:43:28,700
inflow Hank. 
There's a pretty good chance of 

797
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:30,600
the things that you're 
advocating would be harmful 

798
00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:33,700
overall. 
And, you know, you don't Have to

799
00:43:33,700 --> 00:43:35,300
do it. 
You can keep your mouth. 

800
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:38,500
Shut, right? 
Because but I think most people 

801
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:42,300
don't realize How likely this 
is, I think basically if you 

802
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,600
have not researched something 
there's almost 100 percent 

803
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,200
chance that you're wrong about a
bunch of stuff about it, like 

804
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,200
the just casual impression that 
you have is almost always wrong 

805
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,400
in multiple different respects. 
He goes on to talk about the 

806
00:43:57,500 --> 00:44:02,700
myth of Pure Evil height. 
Says when taking the purple, the

807
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:06,900
perpetrators perspective, he 
found this researcher that 

808
00:44:06,900 --> 00:44:10,600
people who do things, we see as 
evil from spousal abuse all the 

809
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,000
way to genocide. 
Really think they are doing 

810
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,000
anything wrong. 
They almost always see 

811
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,700
themselves as responding to 
attacks and provocations in some

812
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:22,500
ways that are Justified. 
They often think they themselves

813
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:25,000
are the victims. 
What do you think about what he 

814
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,600
calls them? 
It's a pure evil. 

815
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,400
So I mean, I think this might be
sort of giving too much credit 

816
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,300
to the bullshit that evil people
say my like, right? 

817
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:38,100
So I don't know how this study 
was done. 

818
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:41,200
But here's how I'm imagining it 
happening, you go to somebody 

819
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,500
who did something horribly 
wrong. 

820
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:44,100
And you say, hey, why did you do
that? 

821
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,000
And then they come up with some 
story about why it was a good 

822
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,600
thing to do. 
And then the researcher just 

823
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,700
takes that at face value, right?
Take that bullshit story to 

824
00:44:52,700 --> 00:44:56,400
PayPal you, okay? 
And so, I think the fact that 

825
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,200
somebody comes up with a story, 
like they might just be lying 

826
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,000
for the benefit of other people 
because they're manipulators. 

827
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,200
And so and, you know, it might 
not be that they really 

828
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,300
sincerely think that they did 
the right thing or that they 

829
00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:14,600
cared what the right thing was. 
It might be that, just they did 

830
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,600
what they wanted to serve their 
own interest. 

831
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,500
And then after the fact they 
made up a bullshit 

832
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:22,100
rationalization to tell other 
people so that other people 

833
00:45:22,100 --> 00:45:24,500
would be nicer to them or 
something like that. 

834
00:45:25,700 --> 00:45:28,400
So the people who are doing 
terrible, things are actually 

835
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,900
psychopath and the second pass. 
Well often say something about 

836
00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:36,200
why the thing they did was okay.
And, you know, often they will 

837
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,400
say something completely 
ridiculous thing. 

838
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:41,300
Like it was okay to murder this 
person because he was in my way.

839
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:44,900
You shouldn't have been, in my 
way, whatever, it was his fault 

840
00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:48,800
because he was in Highway, 
there's a time when a psychopath

841
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:54,600
said, you know, He learned a 
hard lesson in reference to 

842
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,900
somebody that's like about that 
murdered and I think if you were

843
00:45:58,900 --> 00:46:00,900
giving them a valuable lesson by
murdering them. 

844
00:46:01,500 --> 00:46:04,300
Anyway, so part of what's going 
on is some of the people just do

845
00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:06,800
not give a shit and do not 
understand morality. 

846
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,000
Right? 
And so they're saying, like, 

847
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,600
ridiculous rationalizations. 
They're not sincerely trying to 

848
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,200
figure out the trash. 
Okay, all that being fed. 

849
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:18,700
So I think there are some people
who are evil. 

850
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,400
That being said there are not 
that many of you. 

851
00:46:22,700 --> 00:46:25,900
If you're thinking to yourself, 
like, oh, Republicans are evil. 

852
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,000
No, Frank. 
It's not going to be like half 

853
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,800
the population is like I think 
maybe psychopaths are evil or I 

854
00:46:35,808 --> 00:46:37,100
don't know. 
Maybe they're just a moral 

855
00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:39,100
because they don't even 
understand what morality is. 

856
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,700
Maybe there's a small number of 
people who are pure evil, like 

857
00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:45,300
maybe Hitler and Stalin but it's
not going to be like the Trump 

858
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:48,300
supporters. 
Who won their like 50 million. 

859
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,400
It's actually 50 million people 
are pure evil, be impossible to 

860
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,300
what to get anything done. 
What do you think about the idea

861
00:46:57,500 --> 00:47:01,700
that morality does not exist. 
It's just as made up as 

862
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,200
languages and the only reason we
believe it is because we sort of

863
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,200
just trick ourselves into 
justifying Customs. 

864
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,500
There was nothing objectively 
wrong with me. 

865
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,000
Say killing someone cuz their 
life ends their life is going to

866
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,200
end. 
Anyway, yes, it hurts them. 

867
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,100
But so does, you know someone 
breaking up with you that also 

868
00:47:23,100 --> 00:47:26,200
hurts you but that's not 
something terribly evil. 

869
00:47:26,300 --> 00:47:29,200
So therefore morality is 
non-existent. 

870
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:33,000
Well, okay. 
I mean the argument for the 

871
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,300
argument for why it's okay to 
kill people is really lame 

872
00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:38,700
thing. 
That's pretty much like killing 

873
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:43,800
so much. 
Anyway, yeah, when I think about

874
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,400
the idea that we're out of you 
just made up of both being 

875
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,700
false. 
So yeah, why do I think that's 

876
00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:54,700
false? 
Well, it seems to me like it's 

877
00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:58,600
wrong to torture babies for fun.
That seems to me about as 

878
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,600
obvious as anything is so 
someone was going to try to 

879
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,000
convince me that that's not 
actually wrong. 

880
00:48:04,100 --> 00:48:06,500
They would have to have an 
amazing argument. 

881
00:48:06,900 --> 00:48:11,400
So they would have to have their
have to have some information 

882
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,700
that is more obvious than the 
fact that it's wrong to torture.

883
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:18,000
Babies are fun. 
And that information would have 

884
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,300
to somehow picked the wrong. 
Is it Fortune babies? 

885
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:23,500
Right? 
And I just don't see that 

886
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:25,800
happening right now. 
I feel like the argument that 

887
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:31,700
people give for this position. 
I find extremely weak like you 

888
00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:33,800
nowhere near as obvious. 
Right? 

889
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,400
So like one of the arguments is 
there's an argument that you 

890
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,800
find in the academic ethics 
literature. 

891
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,800
If they were objective values, 
then they would be intrinsically

892
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,500
motivated. 
IE, they would motivate people 

893
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:50,900
to act independent of people's 
desires, but it's impossible for

894
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:53,000
any fact to be intrinsically 
motivating. 

895
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,300
Therefore, there. 
Can't be any objective though. 

896
00:48:56,500 --> 00:49:01,500
Okay, and like that's not like a
complete non sequitur. 

897
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:04,100
I was like like it's not a 
completely worthless argument, 

898
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:06,200
right. 
But neither of those premises 

899
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,500
and it is anywhere near as 
obvious as the premise that it's

900
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:11,100
wrong to torture, babies 45, 
right? 

901
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,300
So like there's no way I'm going
to give up my ethical believe 

902
00:49:14,300 --> 00:49:16,600
because of these dubious claims,
right? 

903
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,100
It's not obvious that objective 
moral facts, have to be 

904
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:23,100
intrinsically motivating, and 
it's not obvious. 

905
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:25,400
That nothing can be 
intrinsically motivating, 

906
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,400
either. 
You have a great book called 

907
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:34,400
Paradox, lost want to give you 
one that I heard the other day. 

908
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:39,700
This is from Kim jeong-hoon. 
The father of the sitting on the

909
00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:45,500
sitting Tyrant of North Korea. 
He said that he was one of the 

910
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:49,100
wisest men in the land because 
he discovered that one plus one 

911
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,900
equals one. 
If you have one drop of water 

912
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:53,600
and you add another drop of 
water. 

913
00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:57,400
You have one drop of water that.
Was his logic. 

914
00:49:57,500 --> 00:50:01,100
If you were to explain to the 
people of North Korea that this 

915
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:04,300
actually does not make sense. 
Even though on the surface level

916
00:50:04,300 --> 00:50:05,900
it does. 
What would you say to them? 

917
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,100
We're driving. 
So I had to explain why 1 plus 1

918
00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:12,700
is not equal to 1. 
Yes, because many of them 

919
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:16,300
believe that story to be look 
legitimate representation of his

920
00:50:16,300 --> 00:50:18,700
wisdom. 
Thus his justification enrolling

921
00:50:18,700 --> 00:50:20,000
them. 
I see. 

922
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,800
Well, I mean things like we 
could give a counter example 

923
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,200
like I could take a rock and 
another rock and show how it's 

924
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:32,700
two rocks like the never heat 
the generalization now, okay, so

925
00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:36,000
on then you might say oh, so 
like there's no generalization, 

926
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,100
you know, once I wanted him to 
terminate, it was knowing 

927
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:39,500
entered. 
You might enhance, right? 

928
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:42,500
No, so, wait, was this Kim, 
Jang, Hoon. 

929
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:45,900
Or Kim Jong Hill? 
Who say what did I say? 

930
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,600
This was? 
Who did he write the Kim 

931
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,000
Jong-il? 
This is who Michael malice wrote

932
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,700
the biography about. 
So Kim. /. 

933
00:50:54,100 --> 00:50:56,700
This is the son of Kim il-sung. 
Yes. 

934
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:57,400
Okay. 
Yeah. 

935
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:00,700
Oh, yeah. 
So I think that he's 

936
00:51:00,700 --> 00:51:05,500
misunderstood what addition is 
so I think that you know, one 

937
00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:08,300
plus one. 
Well, actually, by the way that 

938
00:51:08,300 --> 00:51:10,100
factual claim is not even true, 
right? 

939
00:51:10,100 --> 00:51:11,700
It depends on the size of the 
drop it. 

940
00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:14,600
So you put them together, you 
might like if you put two small 

941
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,300
drops, may be a big one, big 
drop, but if you put three 

942
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:20,000
drops, maybe make something like
bigger than a drop. 

943
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,500
So anyway, but that's not what 
addition means. 

944
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:27,400
It doesn't doesn't refer to a 
physical operation in which like

945
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,100
you physically attached to 
things to each other and make 

946
00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:32,500
them into the conduct. 
That's not what I mean. 

947
00:51:32,508 --> 00:51:36,700
Right? 
One plus one me refers to A 

948
00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:39,900
situation in which there's 
something, and there's another 

949
00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:42,500
thing, right? 
And one plus one equals, two 

950
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:46,200
means when there's a thing. 
And there's another thing, then 

951
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,800
there are two things. 
And that's all it means, right? 

952
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:51,600
And why do I think that's what 
it means. 

953
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,600
Because that explains how we use
the phrase, right? 

954
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,900
Like, that's why we say 1 plus 1
is 2 2, like interpret the thing

955
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:03,200
to me, what it obviously means 
to make sense of what people are

956
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:07,600
saying, right? 
If someone were just on an 

957
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,800
island by themself never going 
to see anyone again, do you 

958
00:52:10,808 --> 00:52:14,800
think that person could still 
act and moral and immoral ways? 

959
00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:21,900
I guess I would say no. 
According to how I think the 

960
00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:26,000
word immoral is usually used. 
So I think the person could act 

961
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,200
in rational and irrational and 
he's like do things that they do

962
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,900
or don't have good reason to do 
and like, whatever. 

963
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,000
I don't think I would call it 
the immoral when they did the 

964
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,600
irrational things. 
I'm because I think the way the 

965
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,800
word moral is used in English. 
It has to refer to non non 

966
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:46,600
selfish reasons for action. 
What are some of your favorite 

967
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:51,400
thought experiments? 
Oh, I don't know. 

968
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,200
I like the Chinese room thought 
experiment. 

969
00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:56,800
Uh-huh. 
I like that because, you know, 

970
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,600
kind of convince me that, you 
know, you couldn't just program 

971
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,100
a computer to think, you know 
that the grant. 

972
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,700
No. 
No, I don't ya. 

973
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:07,900
Okay. 
So, you know, they're these 

974
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:12,500
people in the artificial 
intelligence Community who say 

975
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,900
here's the way that you 
determine if a computer can 

976
00:53:14,900 --> 00:53:17,400
think, right? 
You have the computer 

977
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,400
communicating via No to a 
person. 

978
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:23,700
And so the person is 
communicating with a computer 

979
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,100
and a real person. 
And then the person has to 

980
00:53:26,100 --> 00:53:29,800
figure out which thing that he's
communicating with is human and 

981
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,600
which is a computer. 
And if he can't figure it out 

982
00:53:32,700 --> 00:53:36,600
that proves that the computer is
conscious or the computers 

983
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,100
thinking or understanding 
whatever in the same sense that 

984
00:53:39,100 --> 00:53:41,700
we're thinking. 
All right, so that's the claim 

985
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,900
by the artificial intelligence 
people at least some of them and

986
00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:46,600
then here's the thought 
experiment. 

987
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:50,600
So imagine that That computer 
programmers have come up with 

988
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,900
this program that simulates 
conversation in Chinese. 

989
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:59,400
And this program is so good that
when you interact with it, you 

990
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,600
can't tell the difference 
between if and the native 

991
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,200
Chinese speaker. 
And then imagine that you 

992
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,100
transcribe the rules of this 
program in a giant rule book and

993
00:54:10,100 --> 00:54:13,100
the rule book that says, you 
know when you see this and 

994
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:16,300
there's a picture of a sequence 
of Chinese symbols, you did this

995
00:54:16,700 --> 00:54:19,700
and like you do this 
calculations and Put and use put

996
00:54:19,700 --> 00:54:22,000
out these and then there's 
another picture of these 

997
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,600
symbols, right? 
The robot doesn't say what any 

998
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,400
of these symbols mean. 
It just tells you do 

999
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,800
calculations, when you see 
symbols with a certain shape and

1000
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,900
put out other symbols with a 
certain shape for okay, you put 

1001
00:54:33,900 --> 00:54:37,400
me in a room with this trying 
rule book and then people are 

1002
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,600
putting things in a slot in the 
room, which have these 

1003
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,500
collections of Chinese symbols, 
and I look up in the rulebook 

1004
00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:46,700
what I'm supposed to do and I 
passed the appropriate symbol 

1005
00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:50,600
that way from and Cause I'm 
implementing the same algorithm,

1006
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:54,800
you know, I passed the test, but
I think that that's the same 

1007
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,400
test of the computer did. 
Okay, and but I don't understand

1008
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,900
a word of Chinese. 
Hmm. 

1009
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:03,700
Yeah, there's no way that I 
would understand it just by 

1010
00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:06,700
following those rules, right? 
And so, if I don't understand 

1011
00:55:06,700 --> 00:55:09,200
any Chinese just by implementing
the program for understanding 

1012
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,900
Chinese, then there's no way 
that any other digital computer 

1013
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:15,700
would understand Chinese because
it doesn't have anything that I 

1014
00:55:15,707 --> 00:55:20,400
don't have. 
And any other favorite thought 

1015
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:25,200
experiments you have? 
You know, I mean there are 

1016
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,500
various of these examples in in 
ethics like the organ harvesting

1017
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,200
right, which is the counter 
example, to utilitarianism. 

1018
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,900
That's pretty good. 
I think the the violinist 

1019
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:38,500
thought experiment about 
abortion is pretty good and I'm 

1020
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:42,100
not saying that it proves that 
abortion is okay, but it's 

1021
00:55:42,100 --> 00:55:46,000
definitely good example to think
about case anyone doesn't know. 

1022
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,900
This is your imagine that 
there's this world-famous 

1023
00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:51,700
violinist who has to be attached
to a person. 

1024
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:55,300
A nine-month like physically 
attached to another person 

1025
00:55:55,900 --> 00:55:58,300
because he's got some kind of 
kidney disease. 

1026
00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:02,000
And like he has to use somebody 
else's kidneys to filter out 

1027
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,000
toxins in his blood. 
Right? 

1028
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,300
And so some Society of music 
lovers has kidnapped, you 

1029
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,400
without your knowledge and 
attached to you. 

1030
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,500
You didn't agree to it, but they
attached you to the violinist. 

1031
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,300
And now your body is filtering 
out the toxins in his blood. 

1032
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:18,900
And if they detach you then, or 
if you detach yourself in the 

1033
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:21,600
violence will die, right? 
And then, you know, you're 

1034
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,400
supposed to think. 
Think it's okay to detach 

1035
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,000
yourself. 
You don't have to stay attached 

1036
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:26,400
to this other person for nine 
months. 

1037
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,200
Even if they're going to die. 
If you detach yourself, we still

1038
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,100
don't have to stay there. 
If you agree with that, then 

1039
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:35,900
you're supposed to conclude that
it's okay to remove a fetus from

1040
00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:37,400
your body, even though it's 
going to die. 

1041
00:56:38,500 --> 00:56:42,000
Even if the fetus is a person. 
Yeah. 

1042
00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:47,300
What if I am, I choose to go to 
a place where I know there's a 

1043
00:56:47,308 --> 00:56:50,000
pretty good chance that I'll get
stuck with a violinist. 

1044
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,400
Next, to me for nine months and 
I keep Going back to this place 

1045
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,100
again and again and then one 
time I wake up and the violinist

1046
00:56:57,100 --> 00:57:00,700
is attached to me and I go oh 
poor. 

1047
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,600
Woe is me now. 
I need the state to fund the 

1048
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,900
violinist removal at violinist 
Parenthood. 

1049
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,800
Then then do you think I would 
be justified in it? 

1050
00:57:12,900 --> 00:57:15,900
Even though I keep going to the 
place knowing what the risk is? 

1051
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:23,900
Yeah, I mean. 
You typically don't lose your 

1052
00:57:23,900 --> 00:57:26,800
right to have a remedy. 
If you go somewhere, where your 

1053
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,300
risk of something bad happening 
to you, right? 

1054
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:32,500
So, you know, what, if you're 
going to a dangerous 

1055
00:57:32,500 --> 00:57:35,100
neighborhood, and like somebody 
mugs you and takes your money. 

1056
00:57:35,700 --> 00:57:37,900
Okay, and then later you 
complain and you demand the 

1057
00:57:37,900 --> 00:57:41,200
mugger payback and he goes no 
because you came to the 

1058
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,900
neighborhood and, you know, it 
was a dangerous neighborhood. 

1059
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:51,800
So now I get to keep the money. 
No, so they'll so you know that 

1060
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,200
Like, even if you knew there was
a risk, or doesn't mean that you

1061
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,200
agree to have it happen. 
Final question, who are some of 

1062
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:04,600
your favorite philosophers? 
The like Descartes, you know, 

1063
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,500
the so-called founder of modern 
philosophy because I like that 

1064
00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:10,400
whole I think therefore I am 
thing even though he was 

1065
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,200
confused about some things. 
I like John Searle. 

1066
00:58:14,300 --> 00:58:18,600
As you might have guessed from 
the Chinese room example, I like

1067
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,800
David stove who is a 
little-known philosopher of 

1068
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,000
science from Australia, but he's
like the most hilarious 

1069
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,800
philosophical writer like 
ridiculing, the other 

1070
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,300
philosophers of Science and so 
on. 

1071
00:58:30,300 --> 00:58:33,600
So, Ago, I like Jason Brennan, 
of course. 

1072
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,400
Awesome. 
Well, the book is knowledge, 

1073
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,100
reality and value. 
A mostly Common Sense guide to 

1074
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:42,800
philosophy. 
Doctor humor. 

1075
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,300
Where is the best place to find 
that there? 

1076
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:49,300
Of course, will be a link to the
Amazon to purchase the Amazon 

1077
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:51,400
book. 
What is a the best? 

1078
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,800
Where's the best place to find 
your archive of work? 

1079
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:59,800
Well, I have a website. 
I will 232 dotnet, o WL T 3 

1080
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:04,000
to.net, and then there's a link 
to my blog and there's like it 

1081
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,100
will be a link to some of my 
papers and links to some of my 

1082
00:59:08,100 --> 00:59:11,200
books, you know, which the links
would take you outside or take 

1083
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,700
you to Amazon. 
Perfect. 

1084
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:16,000
Those links will be in the 
description below. 

1085
00:59:16,300 --> 00:59:18,800
Thank you to everyone for 
watching Keith and I don't try, 

1086
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,000
don't anyone in the libertarian 
Institute. 

1087
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:22,900
And thank you. 
Doctor humor, for being so 

1088
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:25,300
generous with your time. 
You're welcome. 

1089
00:59:25,300 --> 00:59:26,100
Thanks for having me.