1 00:00:00,500 --> 00:00:03,800 The art of Economics consists in looking not merely at the 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,600 immediate, but at the longer effects of any actor policy, it 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,900 consists in tracing the consequences of that policy, not 4 00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:14,400 merely for one group, but for all groups, welcome to Keith's 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:15,600 night. Don't try to on anyone. 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,600 And the libertarian Institute today. 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,900 I have Walter block professor of Economics at Loyola University. 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,200 Professor block. Thank you for coming on my 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,700 pleasure, good to be with you. What is a priori knowledge? 10 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:35,200 You're a nasty person, starting off with rough questions. 11 00:00:36,100 --> 00:00:41,100 Just I'm going to getting a priori knowledge, is something 12 00:00:41,100 --> 00:00:48,700 that is necessarily true. For example, old Bachelors are 13 00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:51,400 unmarried, men is necessarily true. 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,300 It's a probably RI people say, it's just a tautology in the 15 00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:58,800 sense that it doesn't tell us anything about the real world, 16 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:04,400 and usually you, You contrast this with stuff. 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,600 That is a posterior RI. Not a priori namely stuff about 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,100 the world. Like you have a very dark blue 19 00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:14,800 shirt. I have a light blue shirt. 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,400 It's raining outside. It's now five o'clock Central 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,500 Time. These are all statements about 22 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:24,800 reality, but they're not necessarily true. 23 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,600 I could be lying about the color of your shirt or mistaken or 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:33,200 whatever. Whereas Bachelors are unmarried 25 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,400 men is it doesn't have much to do with the real world. 26 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,700 Just how we use words. So, the big Austrian criticism 27 00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:43,900 or the big Austrian contribution, I should say, is, 28 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,400 is there such a thing as a synthetic, a priori namely, a 29 00:01:48,500 --> 00:01:51,700 statement, or a bunch of statements that are necessarily 30 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:53,900 A pathetically true. And yet have something to do 31 00:01:53,900 --> 00:01:57,800 with the real world. And only austrians believe that 32 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,000 where is The Logical positivists of which virtually all 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,400 mainstream economists adhere to would say know that there's no 34 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:07,800 such thing. I mean, if you're going to have 35 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,500 an empirical statement, something about the real world, 36 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:13,300 you have to test it. You have to see if it's true and 37 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:16,000 it may be true and maybe it's true some of the time and not 38 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,300 always but we austrians are sometimes dismissed as a cult 39 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:22,900 because we believe that there are some statement not every 40 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,200 statement, but many statements about a nest. 41 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,700 Early, true, and applauded the world. 42 00:02:27,700 --> 00:02:31,300 For example. When you bought that shirt for 43 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,700 20 bucks, you valued that shirt at more than 20 bucks, at the 44 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:36,500 time. You bought it. 45 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:41,400 So you gain X on teh and the guy who sold you, that shirt valued 46 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,500 it at less than 20 bucks. Maybe he validated 15 and you 47 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:47,500 value it at 30. So you made a ten dollar profit 48 00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:51,600 and he made a five dollar profit, but we know that Exxon 49 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,100 tell you both made a profit. Otherwise, why would you have 50 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:58,100 done it now exposed, you know, you might regret buying the 51 00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:00,600 shirt or he might said, Wish. I had that shirt back. 52 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,200 I could sell it for more now, but, you know, so we can say as 53 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,900 an empirical generalization that all trade makes people both 54 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:11,700 parties better off ex-post. But there are exceptions. 55 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:14,500 But usually, you know, you buy a newspaper. 56 00:03:14,900 --> 00:03:16,400 Do you regret buying the newspaper? 57 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,200 Because it was no good news or something. 58 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:19,200 I don't know. Yeah. 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,700 It's part of par for the course, although sometimes you can say, 60 00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:24,900 boy. I wish I didn't find this 61 00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:28,400 newspaper, but you can't say, well, when I bought the 62 00:03:28,408 --> 00:03:30,700 newspaper, I valued it more than a dollar. 63 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:33,600 No, I didn't value it more than a dollar and it cost me a dollar 64 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,200 you had to go. Even it more than is all you 65 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,900 necessarily had to. Because all of you have, an 66 00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:43,600 action is an attempt to substitute a lesser valued 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,400 future for a greater value future and you thought that 68 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,800 you'd be better off buying the newspaper, at the time, you 69 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,200 bought it. So you gain difference to you 70 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,000 between having and not having the newspaper and having the 71 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,300 dollar. Now Samuel Samuel konkin took 72 00:03:59,300 --> 00:04:04,900 this idea of trade that we have, you know, people have different 73 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:07,600 values. And so they trade if everyone 74 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,400 had the same values they wouldn't trade. 75 00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:14,700 So he said that this is the weak point in Marxism and socialism 76 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:20,300 because people voluntarily trade to seek, their subjective ends, 77 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:24,600 and anytime, someone stops them from making voluntary contracts 78 00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:28,300 or says, there is an objective. Of value that we can find in 79 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:32,100 labor that you necessarily destroy wealth. 80 00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:34,700 Do you think this is why? There's so much overlap between 81 00:04:34,700 --> 00:04:37,400 Austrian economists and Libertarians. 82 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:41,800 Well, that's one reason, but let me just correct. 83 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,200 One thing where I think maybe I, maybe I misheard maybe Conchas 84 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,800 wrong and he said, if we all had the same taste that be no trade. 85 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,800 I believe, I believe that was his point in the section titled 86 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,200 value in an agarose primer. I don't think that's right. 87 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,000 Not only if we all had the same taste, but I would say even if 88 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,700 we have the same skills and the same taste we'd still tray. 89 00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:14,300 Why you might ask because look. We're both equally good at 90 00:05:14,300 --> 00:05:17,700 fishing you. And I We're both equally good at 91 00:05:17,707 --> 00:05:21,500 hunting you and I, and we're what is it? 92 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:24,000 Friday and Robinson Crusoe on the same island. 93 00:05:24,100 --> 00:05:29,500 Yeah, and however, if you specialize in fishing, you're 94 00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:33,000 going to get better at fishing and if I specialize in hunting, 95 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,900 I'm going to get better at hunting so together we can 96 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:39,600 produce more if we specialize. So even though we might have the 97 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,400 same taste half fish and half meat. 98 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,400 That's our plus vegetables or whatever our mother said. 99 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,500 Have to have your vegetables. So, you know will have 100 00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:52,300 vegetables, but in terms of non vegetable stuff, we each one 101 00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:55,300 half fish and half me. So we have the same taste and we 102 00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:58,500 each have the exact same skills in terms of fishing and hunting. 103 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,800 However, if you specialize in fishing, you'll get better at it 104 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,600 eventually. And if I specialize in hunting, 105 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:10,000 I'll get better at it. So if we each specialized will 106 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,600 have more both. Right. 107 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,300 Yeah. Yeah, that's that. 108 00:06:15,300 --> 00:06:18,500 That definitely makes sense. I think his point is just to 109 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:21,400 just to make sure our monitoring improperly here. 110 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,300 He said, the second two people engage in an exchange. 111 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,100 The only way this is possible is if two people value things 112 00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:32,800 differently, because if we both valued the thing the same, well, 113 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,400 why would you spend the opportunity cost of the couple 114 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,900 minutes trading, go there? I agree with you and I even said 115 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:41,000 that in terms of your shirt. Yes. 116 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,900 Okay. The newspapers, all I agree with 117 00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:45,300 that statement, but I don't agree with the other thing that 118 00:06:45,300 --> 00:06:47,300 mean they're two different statements on the table. 119 00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:50,300 So to speak. Yes, I certainly agree with what 120 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:56,700 you just said, but I don't agree with and I think Murray rothbard 121 00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:59,800 got that wrong or somebody got that wrong other than stem 122 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,300 conch. And then I wrote a paper on 123 00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:05,300 that. I think it was I wrote so many 124 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:06,800 papers. I can't remember everyone, but I 125 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,600 think I was co-authored with Peter Klein and some student at 126 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,700 the time and if you want. Yeah, I can dig it out and send 127 00:07:13,700 --> 00:07:16,300 it to you. And the idea was even if we have 128 00:07:16,300 --> 00:07:18,500 the same exact taste and the same exact skills. 129 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:23,500 It still pays to specialize in have division of labor, because 130 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:26,900 we'll get better at whatever it is that we're, we're focusing on 131 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,000 assuming. So, why should someone take the 132 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,700 Austrian approach to say? Let's just say, monopolies or 133 00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:39,600 the minimum wage or protectionism any example you 134 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,200 want to use? Why should we take the Austrian 135 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,100 route? As opposed to the what are the 136 00:07:44,100 --> 00:07:46,500 experts say? And let's read the peer-reviewed 137 00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:51,000 studies to come to a conclusion. Well, before I get to that, you 138 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,800 asked me. Why are so why is this, there? 139 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,400 Is this overlap between Austrian is and libertarianism. 140 00:07:57,500 --> 00:08:00,100 So let's do that one first since yes, that friends. 141 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:02,200 Thank you, and that will get to the other. 142 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,200 Well, first of all, not all Libertarians are austrians. 143 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,800 Because in order to be an austere, you have to be an 144 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,800 economist is the Australian business is whatever one phase 145 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,700 of Economics or Branch. I'm not a branch or a phase. 146 00:08:19,700 --> 00:08:24,300 What's the word? I'm looking for a Viewpoint in 147 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:26,700 economics. And if you're a psychologist or 148 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:29,900 a plumber, or a lawyer, or a physicist, and you're not an 149 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:32,700 economist. Well, then you can't be an 150 00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:36,500 Austrian because Austin is part of economics and you're not part 151 00:08:36,500 --> 00:08:39,500 of Economics. So then the question is, why are 152 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:42,000 virtually all austrians Libertarians? 153 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,600 Right? And as it happens nowadays, I 154 00:08:46,608 --> 00:08:50,400 don't know of any any Austrian who's not a Libertarian. 155 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,900 However, in the past when Austrian first started in 1870 156 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,900 with my anger or 1878, I forget when he was sorted it but he was 157 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:04,900 our founder. Well, during the Nazi period 158 00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:09,400 they were Austrian Economist who were Nazis, right? 159 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,200 I mean, you know, the Germans and the austrians had economic. 160 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,600 And some and then we're Nazis. And, you know, they were 161 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,200 probably pretty good economists. But, you know, Nazism, it's a 162 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,600 little weak on on libertarianism. 163 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:29,000 But nowadays. I don't know of any any counter 164 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,200 examples. Every every Austrian Economist, 165 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,700 I know is also a Libertarian. Now, they might not all be 166 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:38,900 anarcho-capitalist, but they're all Libertarians. 167 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,900 Why is this? Well, it's probably Murray 168 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:46,500 rothbard. Barnes fault because he wielded 169 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:51,300 a magnificent important influence on the whole group and 170 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:54,200 he was obviously a Libertarian and an Austrian Economist. 171 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,000 So that's one possibility. Another possibility is 172 00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:03,100 Drawstring Economist is no such thing as market failure. 173 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:07,000 And here we get into your other question about the Monopoly and 174 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:12,200 public goods and externalities and all these market failures. 175 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:16,700 Well, if you don't believe in Market values, this inclines you 176 00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:20,000 toward the market. Whereas the mainstream Economist 177 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,900 who might be good Economist say, on the minimum wage Lauren free 178 00:10:22,900 --> 00:10:26,900 trade, they all here to the market failure and the big three 179 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:29,700 on Monopoly externalities and public goods. 180 00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:35,100 So that might be another reason. Why there's this overlap or high 181 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:37,700 correlation between Austrian economists. 182 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,700 I would say 100% correlation. There are no exceptions that I 183 00:10:40,700 --> 00:10:44,200 know of, but there could be, I mean, you could be an Austrian 184 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,200 Economist and favor. The minimum wage if you were bad 185 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:53,000 guy because you hate the, I mean, it's a coherent position. 186 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,100 Yeah. I'm extremely condiments and I 187 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:58,900 hate unskilled workers gonna have a real high. 188 00:10:59,100 --> 00:10:59,800 Minimum wage. Now. 189 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,000 My economics is impeccable. I know that if you have a higher 190 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,000 minimum wage, all unskilled people will not be able to get a 191 00:11:07,008 --> 00:11:09,000 job and I hate them and I don't want them to work. 192 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,400 You still have a miserable life perfectly coherent position. 193 00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:16,000 I mean, I don't take that position, but I mean I could and 194 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,700 then I'd be a good Economist and not a Libertarian because, you 195 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:22,800 know, you're not supposed to as a Libertarian. 196 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,000 You're not supposed to forcibly unemployed people. 197 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:32,700 Yeah, I can't. One of the most recent, you know 198 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:36,100 what anti-free Market articles out of the New York Times was 199 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:42,400 about how the this woman came up with a theory of monopsony. 200 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,200 And this refuted a major myth of the free market that perfect 201 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,300 competition exists. So what they do is they create 202 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:52,100 the straw man that we believe in, you know, perfect humans and 203 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:55,000 perfect organizations. So if they can point to any 204 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,000 imperfection, they could use that as a justification for the 205 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,400 state but also, The Austrian does is take those shortcomings 206 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:05,000 and apply them to the state and you realize that they're the 207 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,300 same fallible humans except the state. 208 00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:11,500 You can't opt out of funding. So you just basically come to 209 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:13,700 the privatize everything conclusion. 210 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:16,800 Why do you think there's that blatant double standard amongst 211 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:21,900 the wisest people on the planet that some people are in perfect. 212 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,000 Therefore the state has the right to violently dominate the 213 00:12:25,008 --> 00:12:27,100 entire economy. Yeah. 214 00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:30,600 Well when I first started that was the dominant syllogism. 215 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,100 We want Perfection markets are imperfect because they are 216 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,300 populated by people and therefore we need government. 217 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:39,000 Yeah. Now one of the one of the 218 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,100 benefits of the public Choice school and June Buchanan, Gordon 219 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:43,800 tullock. Was the inverted that they say, 220 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,600 yes, we want Perfection government is in perfect. 221 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,000 Therefore, we want the market magnificent II, just love it. 222 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,300 So what you're really asking now is why do so many intelligent 223 00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:58,900 people Nobel Prize, winners and economics? 224 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,900 The minimum wage law and not because they want the 225 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,600 unemployment for unskilled workers. 226 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:07,100 Why? Or let me put it another way? 227 00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:11,900 We've got brilliant proponents of free markets and economic 228 00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:14,300 freedom. I mean, Ian ran was magnificent 229 00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:16,900 with a book. So, Ron Paul Murray rothbard 230 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:21,300 Ludwig von mises and yet, you know, Ron Paul runs for office. 231 00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:24,500 He gets the usual 1% when he runs on the libertarian party 232 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:28,000 ticket. And, you know, Joe Jorgensen and 233 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,700 Gary Johnson, the last 2, LP candidates, you know, they got 234 00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:37,400 the usual. Well, Gary got 3%, which was 235 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,400 unprecedented. But Joe got back to our usual 236 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,400 one-and-a-half percent or three-quarters of % y given that 237 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,800 our views of so correct. Why are so few people convinced 238 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,100 by it? And I did write an article on 239 00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:57,800 that and the article talks about sociobiology and sociobiology is 240 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,500 the theory of Why we are the way we are. 241 00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:04,000 And the answer is because of what it took to leave, people in 242 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,300 the Next Generation or our genetic code to the Next 243 00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:11,600 Generation. A million years ago when we were 244 00:14:11,608 --> 00:14:13,700 in the caves of the trees or wherever we were. 245 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,100 For example, nowadays. Nobody is afraid of bathtubs. 246 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:22,400 You afraid of a bathtub. I'm afraid of a bathtub. 247 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,400 Whereas we're afraid of snakes. You see, a snake crawling around 248 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,700 and you're going to get a chair and Bash it, or you going to get 249 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:30,200 it. A chair and stand up on it or 250 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,100 something. I mean, you're gonna you know, 251 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:36,300 be a little upset if there's a big snake floating around, why 252 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,900 nowadays bathtubs kill many more people than snakes Milton, 253 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:41,300 Friedman was killed by a bathtub. 254 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:45,200 He was taking a shower, you want me in or out and, and he tripped 255 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:46,900 and hit his head on the side of the bathtub. 256 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:50,300 And on the way to the hospital. He died, tragically great loss 257 00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:54,200 for her eye movement. Nobody's afraid of her bad time. 258 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,000 Everyone is afraid of the snake and nobody dies from bathtub 259 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,500 from snakes nowadays. But a lot of people die from 260 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:02,100 bathtubs. Why is it well a million years 261 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:03,700 ago. If you are afraid of a bathtub 262 00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:07,600 that conveyed no advantage to you because the 10 bathtubs, 263 00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:11,800 whereas if you are afraid of snakes that help you lead 264 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,300 children to the Next Generation because you are alive. 265 00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:25,400 Another, another example, more and more pertaining to the point 266 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:31,100 at issue, two tribes of people, our tribe and this other tribe 267 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:34,300 and we have the same opposable thumbs the same musculature of 268 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:39,300 the same brain power all the same except in our tribe. 269 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:41,600 You get sick this week. I help you next week. 270 00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:44,400 I get sick. You help me, we survive this 271 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,600 other tribe. Doesn't have this benevolence. 272 00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:50,200 Dean or this benevolence hardwiring, you get sick there 273 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,100 and I don't help you next week. I'm sick and you're not around 274 00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:58,400 to help me that try parishes. So we're hardwired to be afraid 275 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,400 of snakes which is irrelevant to the point just to illustrate 276 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,700 sociobiology and we're also hardwire it. 277 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:08,100 So I've been Evelyn's and toward explicit cooperation go. 278 00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:10,800 We're not hardwired to an implicit cooperation. 279 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,300 What's implicit cooperation? The free enterprise system 280 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,700 markets helping each other. Operating ultimately 7 billion 281 00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:20,600 people. Can all cooperate the greater 282 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,100 cooperation than basketball team or I don't know. 283 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:29,400 Even an orchestra 100-member. Orchestra playing 64th notes 284 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,700 that's impressive. But 7 billion people cooperating 285 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:36,500 that's, you know, magnificent in terms of cooperation, but we're 286 00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:40,000 not hardwired for that. We're hardwired for explicit 287 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,500 cooperation. If you got sick now, I would 288 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,400 call somebody or I would be very upset and, you know, if you 289 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,900 lived next door to me. I would, you know, give you the 290 00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:49,500 Heimlich maneuver or whatever it is. 291 00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:53,700 And I'm sure if ice Versa, but I can students coming in every 292 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,500 freshman students and you mentioned price gouging and they 293 00:16:57,500 --> 00:16:59,100 go. Oh, that's horrible. 294 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,200 And minimum wage. Oh, that's great. 295 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,300 And and we have to have egalitarianism. 296 00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:07,599 Namely, that got the thank God. They've got the hard wiring for 297 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,300 benevolence. But only explicit benevolence 298 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:12,300 not implicit benevolence the market. 299 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,599 So I think that's one of the reasons we're doing very badly 300 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,400 in converter. For the masses to one. 301 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,700 True Faith, namely freedom and free, enterprise economic 302 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,300 freedom. I think that's a reasonable good 303 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:27,800 explanation of why it's sort of like the rock of Sisyphus. 304 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,600 You push it up. Keeps coming, there. 305 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,100 You push it out, keeps coming down. 306 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:34,200 Now, look, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't try just 307 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,700 because I think we're not going to succeed, doesn't mean we 308 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:38,800 shouldn't try. I can't think of anything better 309 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,200 than a promote Liberty. I mean, it just magnificent kind 310 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,300 of a thing better than Mozart and I'm a big Mozart fan. 311 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:50,900 So, I am here to the pessimistic view but I don't say people 312 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:55,700 should drop out or, you know, leave the libertarian movement. 313 00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,000 I try to encourage people to join it. 314 00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:01,600 Excellent. Yeah, but price-gouging, it is a 315 00:18:01,608 --> 00:18:04,800 great one where they think. I'm for cooperation. 316 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:08,700 There should be laws against price gouging when you are 317 00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:12,400 literally stopping people from making exchanges and stopping 318 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,600 the incentive for people to bring scarce resources to where 319 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,500 they're needed. Most Just so that does give me 320 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:22,100 some hope that that can be pointed out to people or that 321 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,800 can be explained in in great, great books, like yours. 322 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:30,200 I do want to get back to. If I'm look let's take the 323 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,000 minimum wage. For example, if you say well, 324 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,300 the minimum wage causes unemployment, the Austrian looks 325 00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:42,000 at a logical, a priori approach. The empiricist will say, let's 326 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,000 look at the minimum wage where it's been raised in countries, 327 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,800 and then what their unemployment rate has been After that, what 328 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,700 are the shortcomings in the empirical approach that the 329 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:55,900 Austrian approach does not have? Well, you know, it's actually 330 00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:59,300 not exactly that case, because austrians also can do empirical 331 00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:01,900 work, but we interpreted very differently. 332 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:06,600 We interpreted not as a test, but rather as an illustration, I 333 00:19:06,608 --> 00:19:12,100 mean, what was it? The card and Krueger New Jersey 334 00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:14,100 and Pennsylvania. One of them raised their minimum 335 00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:18,400 wage and they couldn't find any unemployment effects there. 336 00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:23,000 Okay, so they fail to illustrate the, a pathetic mess. 337 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,700 Certainly true statement that when you raise minimum wage or 338 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:30,300 when you have a minimum wage, anyone below that level with 339 00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:32,300 their skills isn't going to get a job. 340 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,800 So an Austrian can engage in empirical work. 341 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,900 And sometimes the empirical work is a good illustration of the a 342 00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:44,600 pathetic necessarily true and necessary truth and sometimes it 343 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,900 is. And so they failed to illustrate 344 00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:51,100 it properly, it in that case. But but what the mainstream 345 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:54,800 says, well since we couldn't find it in, This case the theory 346 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,900 is wrong. I mean, you know, that's crazy. 347 00:19:57,900 --> 00:19:59,800 Is this sort of like the Pythagorean theorem? 348 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,900 We know that the what is it? The squares of the sides equal, 349 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:05,200 the square of the hypotenuse, right? 350 00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:08,600 And now I'm going to go take a triangle is a triangle? 351 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:12,300 And I measure the thing and I take the square of each side and 352 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:13,700 guess what? It doesn't come out. 353 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,600 Well, then, that just shows that my triangle is crappy. 354 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,700 Right? I mean, we know that the 355 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:23,000 Pythagorean theorem is true, a particular Glee. 356 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,000 We know that two plus two is four and and somehow we try to 357 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,000 illustrate this and it didn't work out. 358 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,200 Well so much the worse for the illustration. 359 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:37,400 So again, it's not that austrians refused to engage in 360 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,900 empirical work. It's how we interpreted. 361 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,000 We interpreted just as an illustration. 362 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:51,400 So if we look at something like, I guess the fact that they are, 363 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,900 are no controlled experiments. No. 364 00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:56,200 Truly controlled experiments among humans. 365 00:20:56,300 --> 00:21:01,800 So, I say, you know, what, I hereby issue 1000 regulations on 366 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,000 Walter block, and Walter. You need my permission before, 367 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,000 you can publish any more papers? And then we look at the amount 368 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,600 of work that you've done between now. 369 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,200 And when the, Asians expire in two years. 370 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:18,200 Well, it's impossible to know what you would have done. 371 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,200 Had. I not impose that regulation on 372 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,200 you. So is it the fact that human 373 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:27,000 beings are diverse and relatively spontaneous and have 374 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,500 some sort of unpredictability and Free Will, is that what 375 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:32,600 gives the Austrian position at strength? 376 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,700 That the empirical approach doesn't have? 377 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,200 Well, you're right. I mean, the closest we've come 378 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,800 to a controlled. Experiment is East Germany and 379 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,700 West, Germany, and North and South Korea. 380 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,500 Yeah. The Koreans and the Germans east 381 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:48,800 and west, north and south have the same culture, the same 382 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,100 history, the same literacy, the same everything, and it was just 383 00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:57,000 an accident of war that broke him up roughly half, half way 384 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,100 each. And the North Korea is economic 385 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:04,400 basket case and the South Korea is doing very well and East. 386 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,700 Germany was horrible and people would try to leave and go west 387 00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:10,900 and they were risking their lives and sometimes getting 388 00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:13,500 shot. So you might say, well, here's a 389 00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:17,200 This firm this proves that free enterprise is right, but you can 390 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,500 always say well look, you know, the reason that East Germany 391 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:22,500 didn't do too. Well is that the dictator of 392 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:25,500 North Korea should have been in East, Germany and the dictator 393 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:26,600 of East. Germany should have been in 394 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,200 North Korea. Then everything would have been 395 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,200 fine. And I mean, how can we prove 396 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,200 that? That's not true. 397 00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:37,400 So these are good illustrations, but you don't want to just rely 398 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,200 on an illustration want to say, look, the reason the reason that 399 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,800 the North Korean and East Germany, where you can Unlike 400 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,200 basket cases is now you go read Human Action and a man, economy 401 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,700 and state. And you find the reason and the 402 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:53,100 reason was very briefly, the 10 prizes. 403 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,800 No free market prices that were just arbitrary prices and prices 404 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,600 indicate scarcity. And you didn't know whether to 405 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,300 build railroad tracks out of platinum or, or are Ian. 406 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,200 And unless you knew that Platinum was so much more 407 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,400 valuable that you shouldn't do it. 408 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,000 You shouldn't waste it on railroad tracks. 409 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,900 You have to use it for more. Thanks, but if you don't have 410 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:19,900 the prices then you don't know. So yes, illustrations are good, 411 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:22,800 but you can only go so far with an illustration because look at 412 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,800 my counter example, we should have switched dictators, which 413 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,100 is a little silly. But how can we say them? 414 00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:29,200 Nay? How can we say? 415 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,000 Well, no, no. No, that's wrong. 416 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,500 I don't know. Maybe it is. 417 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:36,600 I mean, I don't think it's right because you know as these has 418 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,600 shown that that you have no economic rationality unless you 419 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,800 have prices. That indicate something real. 420 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,400 And in the Soviet Union, like during the first five year plan, 421 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:53,700 they adhere to their view of not of this chewing prices then 422 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:55,800 happily for them. They had the naep, the new 423 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,600 economic plan where they now got prices, a Sears Roebuck catalog 424 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,000 or Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Well, they might not have fit 425 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,400 exactly what needed in Russia, but at least it was coherent 426 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,100 prices. So, they did a little bit 427 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:12,900 better. Yeah. 428 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:16,400 And also, It gives our opposition are well-meaning 429 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,000 opposition a little too much wiggle room because they can 430 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,200 always say, well that was socialism, then we tried it and 431 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,600 it didn't work. Just like, you know, the light 432 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,200 bulb was never invented until someone found a way to do it. 433 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,500 So all we have to do with socialism statism fascism, end 434 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,900 slavery is find a method that works and then the word Works 435 00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:37,600 turns out to be the most vague thing. 436 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,400 You could ever think of because anything you could Define work, 437 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:44,300 you know, some people benefited well, Well, what would have 438 00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,700 happened in the absence of that? So yeah, those those are all 439 00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:49,900 excellent. Could you please expand on the 440 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:53,100 Socialist calculation problem? So, for example, if you say, 441 00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:56,100 well, we can't have one Central Authority because they don't 442 00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,200 have the ability to determine trade-offs and opportunity 443 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,700 costs. Well, couldn't we? 444 00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:05,100 Just have local governments reporting to the states, 445 00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:08,000 reporting to the regional and reporting to the central 446 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,300 Authority? Well, we could. 447 00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:14,300 But you know, one of the promises, if you screw up under 448 00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:16,600 the Communist Regime, you don't lose money. 449 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,200 They just give you more taxes like take these socialist. 450 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,500 The post office. They lose money hand over fist 451 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:24,200 every year and they never go broke. 452 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,900 So the you don't have the market discipline. 453 00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:29,300 I wanted to mention my old high-school buddy. 454 00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:33,400 Bernie Sanders, who is now, busy promoting socialism all over the 455 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,100 place. And what he means by socialism 456 00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:42,000 is Sweden and Norway and Finland and Denmark, you know, the 457 00:25:42,008 --> 00:25:44,800 Scandinavian countries. Well, one of my books, what we 458 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,400 did is we raided the economic freedom of all the countries in 459 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,200 the world and guess where the Scandinavian countries come here 460 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,000 in the top decile of free enterprise. 461 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,200 Yeah. Bernie doesn't realize that what 462 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,200 socialism is, is Cuba and Venezuela and North Korea. 463 00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:02,800 He thinks it's, you know, the Scandinavian countries, which is 464 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:10,600 highly problematic, but you're quite right that The central 465 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,300 planning doesn't work because you don't have coherent prices 466 00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:16,500 and the prices don't reflect the reality. 467 00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:20,600 I mean, should you bore a tunnel through the mountain for the 468 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,400 railroad or the highway or should you go around it? 469 00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:25,500 Well, it depends on the interest rate. 470 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:30,000 It depends upon well, the interest rate because you're 471 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,100 going to because if you go straight through it's going to 472 00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:36,600 cost a lot now, but it's going to save a lot of money later. 473 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,300 Whereas, if you round, it'll Be a lot cheaper but more people 474 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:47,100 will die and traffic will go secured ously. 475 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:50,100 It'll take longer forever. Well, you need some sort of an 476 00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:52,900 interest rate to determine which way to go and you can only get 477 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:57,200 an interest rate that reflects time preferences in the market. 478 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,300 Whereas, how does the central planning Bureau? 479 00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:03,200 No, and why would it help to have a sub planning Bureau? 480 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,100 And then a Sub sub planning Bureau? 481 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:07,500 They're still not going to get what an interest rate should be 482 00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:08,900 or what the price of platinum should. 483 00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:14,300 Look II wrote a half-hour to interviews like this. 484 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:18,200 We got two minutes. That's so one. 485 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,300 One more question or comment. Yes, final question. 486 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:26,600 What is the most important implication of you? 487 00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:30,800 Mises Human Action? The idea that humans act. 488 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,700 Why is that important along with its implications? 489 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:40,700 Well, one crucial and Important aspect of it is that if you try 490 00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:44,800 to deny it, you can't because if you try to deny Human Action, 491 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,500 you're engaging in Human Action is sort of like stuck in it. 492 00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:52,400 You know, I'm a mainstream Economist and eyes and either 493 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,900 this human actual. What did I just do? 494 00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:59,200 My denial is Human Action? So it's sort of a synthetic, a 495 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:06,300 priori again, and Gary Becker and, and James Buchanan. 496 00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:08,500 Dismissed. Ostracism is a called a 497 00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:12,600 religious. Fanatics because we believe in 498 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,900 synthetic. A priori is because we believe 499 00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:20,800 in necessarily necessary truths and we're not basing them, on, 500 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:26,300 on Empirical research. We're basing it on praxeology 501 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,700 since I've got one more minute. Let me just put in a brief. 502 00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:32,500 I'm a professor at Loyola University. 503 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:34,900 I'm always looking for good students who are interested in 504 00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:37,900 Austria libertarianism. So if you're a high school 505 00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:41,500 student thinking of a College come consider us and if you're a 506 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,900 university student, and there are no professors there that 507 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,600 profess, anything like Australia paternalism. 508 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,000 Please, consider transferring. We'll look. 509 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,800 I really enjoyed this and maybe we'll do it again in a month or 510 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,900 so. I really appreciated the quality 511 00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:00,000 of your questions and comments. Thank you for watching Keith 512 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,500 Knight. Don't tread on anyone in the 513 00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:04,000 libertarian Institute. Mr. Block always a pleasure. 514 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,500 Thank you. Thank you. 515 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:06,500 Take care.