Welcome to Keith's night. Don't try it on anyone in the
libertarian Institute joining me.
Today is the opinion editor at anti-war.com and my colleague at
the libertarian Institute. Kyle.
Anzalone Kyle. Where is the best place for
people to find your show, the libertarian Institute right with
your show? It's a hosted their.
So, conflicts of interest, myself kind of Freeman will
Porter, and then be sure to check out the new stuff that me
and Will are doing at the Aryan Institute news stories with a
Libertarian take every day. Although, you know, I we want to
do more like domestic stuff but we start doing it last week and
Russia invaded Ukraine. So it's been pretty much just
foreign policy coverage, but that's the big news of the day.
Please explain to me in as deep detail as possible, so we can
get a real understanding of the situation.
What is the revolution of dignity?
The 2014 coup in Ukraine? Yeah, so it's got a bunch of
names the revolution, didn't he? I think it's probably going to
be most known by our audiences as the Euro made on or the 2014
Ukraine coup. It actually starts in late 2013,
in November. And it starts of protest against
the, the president Viktor Yanukovych and there's various
reasons for the protest. A lot of is corruption and
rightfully, so it's a very corrupt government.
Ukraine, has a very corrupt system.
They make, billions of dollars of years.
Just, you know, with Russian gas flowing through their company
country and things like that, of course, like Russia after the,
you know, Soviet Union, Dissolved.
You have an entire country where nobody owns anything and all
this stuff. And so it ends it up gain,
handed out, fairly corruptly and and forget her last name, just
did a really good interview with Scott, Horton on this.
I'll try to look it up when you're talking at some point and
give her full name on how corrupt it was in Russia.
And you know, this is all very important because 30 years ago
if you, you know have like all of the industry in the country
up for grabs. And it's going to the most
corrupt people. Well, then, this is guy, has
some pretty serious consequences for that country probably
forever, but definitely, you know for the decades that
preceded in. So leading up to 2014, that's
one of the things and you know, all the different leaders of
Ukraine had been corrupt. There have been different
resolutions there before including in 2004 when the u.s.
Carried out. The orange Revolution overthrew
the same guy actually and so protests broke out in late
November with People, I think a lot of student movements
gathering in what they call like Freedom Square Independence,
Square are whatever in the capital of Ukraine, Kiev and
those protesters are, you know, met with police and there's some
clashes and things like that. I think people die pretty early
on but not like in huge numbers or anything like that.
The protest go on for quite a bit and the the US starts to get
very involved in the protest. And so, you know, it's one of
those things where maybe the US was involved in facilitating,
even the creation of the protest.
Maybe it was more. The case of the US was You know,
solid protest movement in Ukraine and then just really
exacerbated what was going on there.
All right, but either way US senators, get involved, John
McCain, Chris Murphy are on the ground.
Victoria nuland, who is, I think the u.s.
Like Envoy to the, to Nato are to Eastern Europe or something
like that. She's an Obama administration
official is on the ground. They're handing out cookies,
James Sullivan. Who's the current national
security advisors involved Geoffrey, Pyatt?
Another us Eastern, European official, Who's involved in all
this and importantly, then Vice President?
Joe Biden is like kind of overseeing this for the White
House. And so, you know, how earlier in
the Biden Administration, Kamala Harris was like in charge of the
immigration policy. That's what's going on here.
Where Joe Biden's in charge of you know, Loosely right?
Like Obama still the president and No and everything but you
know, he he is really, I think like giving like the White House
level permission for what's going on and what the US is
doing in Ukraine. And so during this time Ukraine
is negotiating two different trade deals one with Russia and
one with the EU or you know, the Western countries and there's
various reporting on this. But I mean Russia offered a
pretty solid deal to Ukraine. And the European deal said that
they couldn't accept the Russian deal.
And so because of that they end up taking the the Russian
agreement. And so well, you know, they
rejected the European agreement end up taking the Russian
agreement in this really exacerbates the protest.
And you know, this seems like the kind of thing that suggests
that the u.s. Is a very large hand behind it
because you know, one of the reasons that the Ukrainian
government didn't take the European deal was because of the
austerity measures imposed in things like then, you know as a
Libertarian. I don't think there should be
government spending but if you are a Ukrainian Citizen and your
government, you know, makes tons of money, you know, kind of on
contracts negotiated on behalf of you.
And then your government is just stealing all that money and when
they need more money, they are going to like, cut welfare
benefits, right? Other than cutting like
government corruption. Well, you know, I mean like it's
very complicated. It's not as simple as saying
like the libertarian position here.
Is that austerity good for Ukraine and you know Russian
loan packages bad because it's a lot more complicated than that.
And so however, you want to look at it the the offer from Russia
at least, you know in the immediate term was definitely a
better offer and during this time.
There was a negotiated deal. For new elections, to be held in
Ukraine prior to whenever they were scheduled, but that was
pushed up. And, and by the end of February,
they had removed the Ukrainian government from power, it fled.
And then, of course, one of the most important in famous parts
of all, this is or inFAMOUS, Victoria nuland is called to
Geoffrey. Pyatt, you know, look it up the
fdu call where she's talking about, who's going to go into
the new? Government, and she's talking
about Yachts being the guy. I think that it's actually
pronounced, like got some garlic Yachts would be short and then
you have Klitschko, the Bots are who's now the current mayor of
Kiev, you know, he's getting a lot of attention in play now
because of that role. He only they got me in fatigues,
holding like a big-ass gun, you know, on the on the media
running now, so they want him out.
Did the government, you know, not in the government and that's
what ends up happening. And then they put, they also
designated the position of this guy.
Tommy Brooke who was one of the main people involved in some of
the right wing. Like ultra-nationalist, you
know, borderline Neo-Nazi parties and Ukraine including
the sobota party. And so, you know, we could get
more into that in a minute, but you know, that is kind of you
know, somebody that the US S is promoting here that has a very
ugly background, man. So yeah, that, I mean, that's
how the government gets overthrowing.
The u.s. Is behind it.
Of course, I, you know, causes a civil war to break out Russia to
Annex the Crimean Peninsula. The u.s.
Responds with sanctions on Russia Army, the ukrainians in
their civil war against the russian-backed separatists in
the donbas. And a lot of that Civil War is
provoked because of someone like the ultra-nationalist.
Elements and Ukraine carried out a couple, pretty vicious attacks
on buildings with ethnic Russians in there, like burning
people alive. Terrible things like that.
So, yeah. Yeah, you ask me more detail.
Why have you I skipped over too much.
It's it's been a while. I was I had to go back here and
refresh myself. A little bit because this is
eight years ago now and as an important thing to remember and
all this, you know, people are just now pretending that there's
a war in Ukraine. For the donbas region of Ukraine
and Eastern. Ukraine in general.
There has been a war on going there for 8 years.
So Putin said in his February 24th address on February 22nd, I
made a decision to carry out a special military operation.
The purpose of this operation is to protect people who for eight
years now have been facing humiliation and genocide
perpetrated by the Kiev regime to this end.
We will seek to demilitarize and D.
Not suffice a Ukraine. What is it with calling the
current Ukrainian regime a Bunch of Nazis, is that just sort of
like an America where everyone who is to the right of now as a
Nazi or are we actually dealing with a national socialist
regime? So yeah, I mean there's some
truth to it. But also I think when you know
Putin is talking about di not suffice eyeing, you know, the
government that could mean quite a bit more than just like taking
out the legitimate neo-nazis that are in Ukraine.
And so I don't want to just, you know, endorse it because that
could A euphemism that Putin is using an essentially for
cleansing the government of anybody who doesn't follow the
the Russian line, but there is the azov Battalion in Ukraine
and just yesterday, me and we'll Porter wrote up a story on this
for the libertarian Institute. You can find it on the blog
there. And the azov Battalion is a part
of the Ukrainian National Garden.
This is a tweet from the Ukrainian national.
Guard verified, it verified, Twitter account, and now has a
warning on it before the first 12 hours.
It didn't. But the Tweet is about, says, in
English in the tweet that they are dipping bullets and pigs
lard to shoot at the Muslim or has that are fighting for
Russia, right? And so just, you know, as a
current example of what the as all Battalion is, like, that's,
you know, that that's the level that we're talking about here.
Like, that's God's team and to put it out on the Twitter
account like that, like that, you know, my me, they're telling
you who they are. And so, you know, the azov
Battalion guys have this patch that you'll see often.
It's like a z with a line through it is the Wolves angle.
It's a Nazi era patch, you know, it dates back to that in mining
Wills article. Actually.
There's also a, like blad song that's also like a no
nationalist. Like, well go and And these
people are like descendants of the movement, founded by Stephen
Bandera, who was a World War Two Ukrainian collaborator with the
Nazis when they moved into Ukraine.
And so, you know, he had his own militias that carried out at the
Prague arms and things like that, you know, when people hear
not see, you know, the the immediate thought is anti-jew.
I think these people are more neo-nazis in Sense of like
Ukrainian Aryan Supremacy. You heard somebody on the BBC
saying how terrible it was that blond haired blue.
Eyed. People are killing each other,
right? You know, that that's what's bad
about this to them. So yeah, and I'm not saying
that, you know, they like Jews or anything like that.
I'm just saying that, you know, I don't think what they've done
in Ukraine is go around and like kill Jews.
And like, that's the kind of Nazis that they are.
I think, you know there. Like they believed in, you know,
violent ethnic supremacy of ethnic ukrainians who are
probably mostly Aryans of Ukraine, right?
That's that, that's that the ideology there.
And so yeah, they're descendants of Bend era in 2010, the
Ukrainian government like made Stephen Bandera, an official
hero of Ukraine, the move was denounced by the European Union,
Congress and Israel. And I think even the Polish
government because, you know, this this is a pretty ugly
figure who carried out attacks against ethnic poles as well.
It's not just Russians are things like that, that these
people don't like, you know, there are other minorities and
Ukraine other than the Russians. And so in fact, that's a good
point to make. After the post-2014 coup is one
of the first things, the Government tried to do is Ban
the Russian language and things like Like that eliminated from
the government, and, you know, make Ukraine, the official
language, which was, you know, mainly, I think Saul's a Target
against the Russians, but there's also hungarians and
poles in Ukraine who obviously took offense to this kind of
action, you know, targeting their language and their
Heritage and things like that. David Stockman has a pretty good
article. New article out at anti-war.com
titled, we are not Useful idiots.
And he goes through kind of how Ukraine was collaborated
together as the state. And you'll see that because
there's not great borders here. And so, you know, there are
people in Ukraine who aren't Ukrainian, right?
And so this, you know, crave some of these problems.
I guess. Yes.
Oh, that. Oh, and rape Ruby.
That's the one there person. I want to mention.
So after the government from think 2016 2 2019, this guy,
Andre Peru be who gets in close with the West he travels to the
United States and things like that is a member of this blow to
party of sybota party of Ukraine, and they initially when
the party was found in the 1990s openly embraced.
Like, nazi-like ideas and insignias, and and Logan's, you
know, slogans and all that kind of stuff.
Right now in the 2000s. I think they had like a new main
party member come in and, you know, he really advocated
changing some of this stuff. And so now, if you look at their
like logos and things like that, it's like a big piece like
yellow, peace symbol with a blue background, but, you know, they
made it very clear during that transition.
It's not about Ideology per se is just about, you know,
branding and things like that similar to in Syria.
When the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, told the leader of
al-Qaeda in Syria, to change your name, you know, from Al
Qaeda and Syria to Al nusra that way.
The Americans will give you more weapons, right, you know, you
change your branding a little bit and the Americans, you know,
will fall in love with you. It's not that hard to fool them
or, you know, get them not to care.
And so in 2016, there's a good article by James Corden in the
nation where he outlines how the Biden's are not buying Obama's
Pentagon. Lobbied Congress to take a
provision out of the 2016. Ndaa.
I'm pretty sure was put there by Tulsi gabbard, but I'm not
positive about that. But that provision was the like
stop Army Nazis at or something like that or a specific thing
that would bar. Weapons being sent to groups
with like far-right ideological extremists.
I'd like, you know in for real now like, you know, the local
guy down the street that lights to hang a Confederate flag, but
you know the guys that will go out and kill people in Ukraine
and things like that based on their, you know, ethics that
Addison and things and so yeah. Yeah.
So anyways, the Pentagon had Congress take that out of the
bill, right? Like what more The design they
do need you. Also in you know, I don't love
the UN. I'm not preaching international
government, you know, there's certainly other reasons then,
you know, opposing Nazis to like oppose the UN adopting different
mandates and things, but there was a vote in the UN on like
condemning Army Nazis and every country.
But Ukraine in the United States, voted for it or those
were the only two countries that voted against.
I think there are some abstentions and so That's based
on what's happening in Ukraine. Further, the, the New Zealand
Christchurch shooter, you know, they banned his Manifesto and
everything, but in his Manifesto, there are references
to Ukraine and his desires to travel to Ukraine.
There's a former soldier in the United States, who committed,
some pretty violent crimes after traveling to Ukraine.
You could watched an episode of trap it on Nat Geo that details
the White supremacist ties in eastern Ukraine and how the US
has been involved in that. And in fact, Newsweek wrote an
article on this and former Obama administration.
Official. Evelyn Farkas said, yeah.
Yeah. They're they're Nazis.
But when Russia is going to evade you arm and back who you
have to back. And so this is, this is like,
you know, real stuff that we're dealing with here, actual
Neo-Nazi presence in Ukraine. Is that a dog or is there a
woman in your basement? Know that?
That's a, I got a little husky here.
Who is not happy that he's not getting attention right now.
But yeah, again, be a little bit more quiet.
I was just making sure I go. Is there a coffee cup moving
along? Making this sound or something?
So, on February 21st, Putin says in March of 2021 Ukraine adopted
a new military strategy based on the Each that this document,
he's referring to is almost completely aimed at
confrontation with Russia. They want to drag foreign States
into the conflict with our country.
The strategy suggests organizing Russia Russian Crimea and donbas
as basically, terrorist underground's.
And it also outlines the possible War.
Are you familiar with any document like this?
I don't know about the document. I mean, again, you know, going
bad to all this, you know, there is a war being waged here and
everything and 01, you know, one important detail in the recent
fighting has broken out in Ukraine, is that in the like
couple days leading up to Putin declaring, you know, the the
independence of the donbas region and then giving this
speech there was like five thousand, something reports of
like artillery fire along the Line and control an outbreak of
fighting, in the Ukrainian civil war between the people of the
donbas and, you know, the Ukrainian Army, including, you
know, the the National Guard, which includes the azov
Battalion, right? But during that fighting they
said that like, 80% are like the vast majority of the, the
ceasefire violations were committed by the side of the
Ukrainian Army and so, you know, not not that, that justifies
what Putin is doing here, but it is, you know, Kind of important
to note that. Yeah, like this fighting has
been going on a long time and a lot of people are, you know,
being killed who are on the Russian bad side of this.
So it's really clear if you read the work of Pat Buchanan in
1999. He says bringing Latvia
Lithuania and some have even urged Ukraine into NATO will be
a direct threat to Russia. Just as the Soviets putting
missiles in Cuba was never going to be allowed by the Americans.
What do you see NATO expansion as the primary cause behind
Putin? Invading Yeah, well, yeah, I
think so. I think that is the primary
cause I think the things going on internally in Ukraine are
very important to Putin as well. Like, you know, that what we're
talking about here with the fighting going on in eastern,
Ukraine, and the Nazi elements in the government and that
government alignment with the west and everything like that,
however, I think a lot of the most important stuff going on
here is about the NATO and Expansion because of what NATO
expansion means. And so at the end of the Cold
War, there are only 14 countries in NATO.
Oh, now they're sits team. This is pretty significant
increase. And at the end, you know that it
was West Germany, the US reunited, Germany.
And then, you know, made Germany and NATO member then it included
Poland. Which, of course, the Warsaw
Pact was the Russian counter to Nato and now Warsaw.
All is a NATO member that's you know, these are pretty crazy
things. But then the Baltic states which
border Russia and right near the area with St.
Petersburg is very significant and important.
And so, you know, these are real security threads, but in 2008
George Bush, really stepped on the Russian red line by saying
that they were going to put both Georgia and Ukraine into NATO.
And so this led to a conflict in Georgia and 2008, where Russia
ends up recognizing the independence of South Asia and
putting a bunch of dirt troops there to, you know, really
cement the independence. They are in, you know, I guess
in a lot of ways is just you know ads is somewhat of a
Russian, you know, proxy little Province.
They're somewhat like if the you know, Russia just takes the Donk
mess. It would probably add to it in
some way that same catching on that border.
But with with NATO membership, Ship comes not only a guarantee
that you know, if you're at at Russia will fight back and so,
you know, if we're talking about adding Ukraine, as a NATO member
and a skirmish breaks out on the border and the Western
countries, you know, interpret that that's in the tap by
Russia, even if it wasn't attacked by Ukraine or something
like that, you know, that it could start war with NATO NATO
and insist that it's a defensive Alliance and Russia feel it has
nothing to worry about. However, NATO has only Three
offensive Wars and zero defensive Wars.
It bought in Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Libya.
And so, you know, you tell me if brushes should just take NATO's
word for it, that it has no concerns, you know, interest in
Russia. I mean you have four years had
like serious u.s. Pond in suggesting that there
should be regime change in Moscow and things like that.
And you know, there was a pretty good episode of the sky horn
Show recently with Lyle Goldstein on all this.
And he points out that another significant factor wasn't in
just a couple months ago, the u.s.
Tried to remove the government in Belarus, or at least that's
the rush interpretation of it. I'm not sure how much of the
color-coded Revolution backed by the US who it was, but the u.s.
Does have a lot of ngos operating in Belarus that were
heavily involved in what was going on there.
So, you know, even if the u.s. Maybe wasn't directing all the
Half-baked. They certainly laid a lot of the
foundation and ground working is pretty understandable why I
think Russia wouldn't interpret what happened in Belarus with
the recent protests that way. Yeah, but another big thing with
NATO membership is going to come weapons and a lot of them, you
get priority access to weapons. And if we look at what's, you
know, happened with NATO expansion.
It's also been a slow creep of weapons across Europe as well.
Right? And, you know, we're deploying
more and more troops for the They're used all the time.
We're conducting more war games further, and further east.
It was just a month ago, that the UK was a France and Estonia
were carrying out war games, right on, like literally sits be
miles from the Russian border. It would take wargame 60 miles
from the Russian border. Like you'll think that's be a
little bit of an issue if Russia and Canada were carrying.
Now joined tank war games like 60 miles from the border with
New York, like people want feel a little I'm comfortable with
that. I really think they would.
And then, of course, more importantly things like Maize
missiles and particularly the Patriot missile systems, which
the US says our defensive. However, the problem is the same
tube that you put one, the Patriot missile are receptors.
Then you can also drop a Tomahawk missile in there.
And you can also put a nuclear warhead on a Tomahawk missile.
And so I think Russia is concerned and rightfully.
So Because the u.s. Is already installed these
systems in Poland and Romania that could possibly come to
Moscow. And again, you know looking at
maybe an example from the US side, if Russia was talking
about putting systems in Cuba today that could hold like there
Hypersonic, cruise missiles are something.
I I don't think there's any way that us would allow that and
went under and rightfully understand it as a security
threat. Was it Ukraine that bush wanted
to bring into NATO or Albania and Croatia?
He, I don't have, I got to look at map because there's been like
several rounds of NATO expansion, but he wanted to
bring Ukraine and Georgia. And that was right at the end of
his administration, 2008 that he put Ukraine, Georgia, and maybe
also Moldova on that list. I'm not exactly sure about
Moldova, but I know that there's been talk about that.
But yeah, they again it's banded all the way from Germany to, you
know, the borders of Ukraine, you know, people keep talking
about on like Fox News and stuff.
They're like, well, if boot over Ukraine, then he's going to have
more NATO countries on his border which he doesn't want.
And it's like, yeah, but you know, his the water he's
concerned about his like how far NATO is from Moscow, right?
Not necessarily, you know, where the official like find of Russia
begins versus the the official line of NATO.
I think, you know strategically where his Country is and also,
you have to remember them, you know, World War Two, Germany,
invaded Russia, you know, Russia.
Well the USSR, but they did that through Ukraine and 27 million,
Russians died fighting there. And so these are everybody's
grandparents in Russia. Right?
Like that's that generation for a lot of these people that
fought in World War Two or, you know, didn't even have to fight
because the war was in Russia. It's not like America where the
Only people who really remember WWII are the people who went to
combat and in theater, right? Like my grandpa didn't even
really talked much about it because he was just stationed in
the Aleutian Islands and Alaska. Like, I don't think he really
did much up there other than be cold where, you know, like the
people who went to Europe in the, in the Philippines, but
that is still only a few Americans when it was the
Russians. Right?
Like they fought, like the people fought a war against You
to stop the Nazis from taking Moscow, like that almost
happened. And so now you've had in the
past 30 years, America, re-established, Germany as one
country after it was divided in WWII in part because of, you
know, the crimes of Germany during World War Two and how
everything worked out. But, you know, we've now
reunited Germany, made it an integral part of the NATO.
Alliance is one of the biggest It's economies in NATO now and
that, you know, Alliance has has or two more and more countries
is getting closer and closer to Russia's border.
In Putin's February, 24th speech, he actually gives the
outline of the National Socialist invasion of the
Soviets. He says, basically, we sat back
we didn't think it could happen. There was The molotov-ribbentrop
Pact. So we weren't necessarily
expecting a war. I don't believe half of this but
that is how a lot of Russians will be able to easily see it as
we sat back and did nothing while the national socialists.
Were expanding today. It's they sit back and do
nothing while NATO's expanding and he says, as a result, the
country was not prepared to counter The Invasion by Nazi
Germany, which attacked our motherland on June 22nd 1941.
Without declaring war, the country, stopped the enemy and
went on to defeat it, but it came at a tremendous cost.
The attempt to appease the aggressor ahead of the Great
Patriotic War proved to be a mistake, which came at a high
cost for our people in the first months after hostilities, broke
out. We lost This vast territories of
strategic importance, as well as millions of lives.
We will not make that mistake a second time and it's amazing how
similar this is to the second world war issue.
Where look, I mean, as bad as Hitler is, is it worth staging a
World War over the Danzig area? Which is where Britain declared
war? After the Nazis invaded Danzig?
A mostly German area. It was like something like 90%.
E % German in the Danzig area because it was Germany
previously, 20 years ago before the Versailles treaty.
So I mean this is what people are risking a World War over.
I mean, I'm sorry, please go. I know.
I was just going to say on that point.
You know, one thing that happened after World War Two is
that the west of the UN established, the international
liberal, world order, whatever the post.
All to structure of everything that's, you know, quote unquote,
kept the peak is and part of that says that you can change
borders that anywhere ever, which doesn't make sense.
Because sometimes borders are in the wrong place.
And so, you know, this has been basically used to demonize any
of America's enemies ever since for, you know, WWII right where
you like have Russia, you know, they do a little bit in South
ossetia and Georgia and that's a huge violation of international
World Order, Joe Biden. In is making plans to partition
a rocking like 2009 and then it's not a problem at all.
So, you know, these are kind of the things that you got going
on, Israel's annotation, the creation of South Sudan and
entire new country. The recognition of Morocco's
occupation of Western Sahara, the creation of Kosovo and all
these things. Right?
Are all examples of the same thing that Russia did but it's
only bad when Russia does it. And they're, oh, the other point
I want to make Is everybody in the west likes to pretend like
oh boy. We're just got to be Neville
Chamberlain and Putin is Hitler. And we're going to appease him
until it's too late. When, you know, if you look at
it. I think Putin has a much
stronger case to make that he's been Neville Chamberlain and
making appeasement and that it's his country that has put itself
in a security detriment in, in an effort to prevent any kind of
major outbreak accomplished. I mean, could you imagine after
all we heard for years about Putin and Russia are basically
determining American elections and their kin.
They're controlling the president of America and it was
all these vagaries. But when it comes to the coup in
2014 and Ukraine, you have John McCain, the presidential
candidate on the ground, in Ukraine, making speeches in
support of overthrowing that government.
I mean, with all this election in Ference.
It's so clear that the US wanted, all the benefits of
having Ukraine on their side without having to bear the cost
because to have them as a NATO member.
I mean, I think zielinski asked in what was the lynskey, made it
clear in gosh. I'm losing the date.
On this June 14. 2012. He won zielinski says, of
course, we'd like to become a member of NATO.
It's stipulated in Ukraine's Constitution, so it'd be a big
liability for them to be. Supposedly part of it.
But still they have a coup in which they're they're cheering
on. I mean, it's like Putin's
besties supporting a crew, a coup in Canada.
And then I mean, it's just so unbelievable that they're
playing. I can't think of a better
example than Russian Roulette is just coming to mind.
But it's like they're playing Russian roulette with millions
of lives here over this border dispute in in the freaking
donbas and any final thoughts. On the donbas and what's going
on there. And maybe giving us a better
idea of where this donbas verse Ukrainian government thing came
from, and where it's going. Oh, man, there's a lot there,
boy. So I think the NATO membership
is like, probably the most important thing, right?
That's probably pune's strongest red line here.
I mean, I think you were really like to have the the missile
defense systems out of you, Poland and Romania, but that the
NATO membership was huge. Now the most important thing for
everybody to know is Ukraine was never going to become a NATO
member state for a Entry to become a NATO member state.
It has to get the approval of every other NATO member State.
And it doesn't matter how trivial another country's
objections are. They could block any other state
from joining. For example, Greece blocks North
Macedonia from joining NATO until they changed their name.
To make it more clear that their name.
Didn't suggest that they could have any potential future claim
to the Greek Republica like State Republic of Macedonia.
Right? Like that.
That's the The level that you know, we're talking about that
you could like raise an objection to block another
country from joining. And so Germany and France have
made it very clear from the start that they really don't
want Ukraine in NATO hell, even the Ukrainian people don't
really pull all that in favor of NATO.
And so, yeah, so that's a real important point to their
standards that country has to make.
It actually has to be a democracy and Ukraine really
isn't in part, because a huge portion of the country lives in
areas that At the Ukrainian government claims, but they
don't control and so those people don't vote at all.
You just also have light the fat that major party in Ukraine is
the sobota party and, you know, has Nazi ideology like that's
going to be an issue for some NATO member states and then the
corruption problem. They don't meet any of the
corruption needs and reforms and there are no where near a path
to. And so even, you know, if
Ukraine was really all they want to do is join NATO and we're
really trying. To do like reforms and get
there. I think it was still be like a
decade and Joe Biden has made that point clear.
That Ukraine is not joining NATO, anytime in the next
decade. However, rather than just taking
NATO membership off the table for Ukraine, because it's never
going to be an 80 State. Because, I think the fundamental
issue is that NATO countries, understand that article 5 of the
NATO treaty says that, if one member is attached, all members
are attached to you respond. Yeah, I think there's going to
be NATO member states like particularly France and Germany
which have large armies. Like, you know, some of these
really small states might not really object-- just because
they can really contribute anything to the fight.
Anyways, like Montenegro. But Germany and France will be
called to. And they will lose a significant
amount troops fighting for Ukraine and there, they just
don't want to do that. And so they would never allow
them into NATO, right? So rather than just, Making that
explicitly clear that you know, NATO is North Atlantic and Asia
is pretty far from the Atlantic. It's so you know that that is
where we're talking. We're almost in Asia.
We're talking about here with Ukraine and with Georgia we are
and to just say that you know, you know, we're not going to
have these countries in NATO and just what would have probably
prevented this Invasion from happening and so the Ukrainian
government double Downing on that in January after one of
their diplomats. Are you?
I think maybe it was a UK, official and met with the
Ukrainian official then say, I, you know, maybe they're willing
to wiggle on this and they said, no, you know, we still really
want to join NATO. Now, the bigger problem is, I
think the buying them is tration, really started to treat
Ukraine. As a de facto NATO member, they
constantly every day. There's somebody in the binder
ministration saying we are committed to Ukraine's.
Territorial integrity and sovereignty.
What does that sound like to you?
Keith. That sounds like to me, that is
somebody invades Ukraine. The u.s.
Is going to try to stop them. So that kind of sounds like what
happens when the country's the NATO member.
So, you know, kind making them de facto NATO members, also the
u.s. Really has ramped up in the past
few years. It's deployment of weapon
systems to Ukraine, including turkey, giving Ukraine, there
tb2 armed drones which had been significant on battlefields in
nagorno-karabakh. Bond and take great Ethiopia.
And so, you know, these are significant Weapons Systems.
Right to give armed armed drone, said country, that operate
fairly. Well, the US has been giving
them Javelin missiles which are fairly Advanced anti-armor, you
know, different, NATO countries have been pouring in
shoulder-fired missiles. I think the polls are giving
them Grand 's and everybody else is giving them Stingers
artillery systems from Germany and Norway.
Way. It just, you know, more and more
weapons flooding into Ukraine. Ukraine was trying to get the
Iron Dome system from Israel. According to Israeli sources.
You know, that this is what happens when you're a NATO
member State 0, the Florida. National Guard was in Ukraine
training, the Ukrainian soldiers, right?
The US has a intelligence operation with the CIA where
they're hiring paramilitaries to train Ukrainian soldiers on, you
know, in certain. Going to see status and things
like this. This is a CI ground.
Branch is reported in Yahoo! News, you know, just out there,
you know, they're talking about that.
These are going to be the people that lead the Insurgency against
Russia and that that is. This is probably where I'll get
to my final thought here, which is, you know, I don't know how
much the buying a ministration per vote this but I do think
they saw an opportunity here and willfully.
Chose not to negotiate to exercise.
Our tell more likely lead to the thing that they would get to
exercise the opportunity in the light of a Russian invasion, to
basically turn Ukraine into the Nets Afghanistan.
And the most disgusting part about this is, of course, is
that everybody has got like, Jen Rubin has the Ukrainian flag in
her bio and things like that. But this is this, that they are
sacrificed to Ukraine on the altar of NATO, right?
They are fighting the Russians to the last Ukrainian.
Diablo 2 Putin because they want dead Russian soldiers is very
clear. If you watch anybody in the
media, anytime they talk about Russian soldiers being killed
there, talking about it with Glee, right?
And in a sense like, you know, they are innovating Army and
things like that. But at the same time, like this
is what they want right there. Like this is the points to, and
it doesn't matter how many you ukrainians died.
Even Jake Sullivan, the National Security advisor, not that long
ago, was saying that look, this is going to be terrible for the
Iranians. But it's going to be a loss for
Russia to and so I think that's a lot of the thinking here.
You got Victoria nuland in the administration.
You got, you know, my friend the host of the around the Empire
podcast, Joanne Leone show me this clip of the venue has been
new Burzynski the, the former National Security advisor and
you know, a leading foreign policy, establishment thought
leader in the United States, right?
Like he has acolytes, who are in the biochemistry.
And things like that. He's talking about how great it
would be to have Russia engaged in street by street fighting in
Ukraine, right? That this is going to be
something that really deals a blow to the Ukrainian Army.
This is, this is crazy stuff that we're talking about here.
And I'm not saying that I know, for sure that's what happened.
But I have a very strong suspicion that the Biden
Administration was at least more willing to allow this conflict
to happen because at least parts of the Raishin thought it would
be a good thing for America to fight Russia, to the last
Ukrainian. And that's, that's the really
disgusting policy that we're talking about here.
We'll even people like Gideon Rose.
Who was the I think he was a senior editor at foreign affairs
magazine publication of the Council on Foreign Relations
explicitly like in this funny way.
It's like Ukraine as Putin's girlfriend and we're trying to
steal his girlfriend away as though like millions of lives
are at stake over the territorial Integrity of
countries with regard to Nato expansion.
I mean, they is it correct that they never?
Article 5 until 2001, because that was the research that I
found. I don't think they ever did
under. Yeah, I don't think so because I
don't think I don't think they invoke Article Five for the
actions in Kosovo or Libya, but they were Native sponsored
actions. Well, I mean, if you just that,
almost tells you everything you need to know, they hubris and
lack of humility. They spent 20 years to give
Afghanistan to the Taliban after 11 days.
And now they want to take on nuclear Russia, who I mean, it
certainly looks like they have a positive relationship with China
when it comes to Putin and G meeting.
So what we're going to take on Russia, Iran and China over the
donbas region of Ukraine after we just lost Afghanistan.
Absolutely sickening Stowe, just real quick on the the this point
belt. I watch them Fox News, right?
Because they do have a guy in Kiev who at least is giving some
updates and things like that, but they have on some guests and
the guess is saying that are, do you know who was there for
America? After 9/11, and I get all the
side, I get big grin on my face because I know that the first
world leader to call America George Bush.
After 9/11, was Vladimir Putin, and he said, whatever you need
like to facilitate like the invasion of Afghanistan.
Like he offered up some old Soviet bases in the, in Central
Asia, so Apply lines and things like that.
And he goes NATO, was there for America and that's why it's bad
NATO to Ukraine and is what does what does he have to do with
Afghanistan? Right?
Like, if that's the example that you're using like and and that's
just like one example of how a historical all the media
coverage has been on all of this.
It's just like it. No, no concept of what has
happened in recent history over the past, you know.
Thirty years or you no longer than that.
Even like the fact that the last time they provoked an F.
Well, I guess they were calling Afghanistan run the Soviets
Vietnam bat then but over a million Afghans died.
So do you really want to do that to Ukraine?
Just finishing off with a quote from Frederick the great, which
feels belittling calling him, Frederick the great, but you get
what I'm saying. He who wants to defend
everything defends nothing, and he who wants to be.
Everyone's friend has no friends in the end.
Thank you for watching. Keep my don't write on anyone
and the libertarian Institute Kyle anzalone.
Thank you for your time, brother.
Thank you, Keith.