Welcome to Keith's night, don't tread on anyone any libertarian
Institute podcast today. I am joined by Kristin Hawkins.
She is the president of students for Life action and students for
life. She is also the host of the
explicitly pro-life podcast. Find are a Christian.
Hawkins.com links will be in the description below Miss Hawkins.
Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having me today.
Key, of course, I saw so many of your videos on YouTube, so I I
wanted to give you what I have found to be the top 10 most
compelling pro choice questions. Now, before we get into that,
you had a great question, where you would ask someone to explain
what an abortion is. And it was interesting that this
pro-choice Advocate was not able to Define it to which I said,
well maybe I need to embrace some humility.
Maybe I don't know what it is. Please tell us before we go
through the argument. So we're on the same page.
What does it mean to have an abortion?
Sure, well, there's different types of abortion depending on
the development of the child, how old the child is in utero.
The most common type of abortion is committed in the first
trimester and that type of abortion will either be used
would be a D&C procedure, a dilation and curettage procedure
suction abortion or an abortion pill would be used pills would
be used to and the Pregnancy and end the life of the child didn't
see seizure. Where a looped shape curette is
inserted into the woman's vagina into the birth canal into the
uterus. And it is used to scrape the
lining of the uterus, where the new organ, that is forming the,
the child actually self directs. The placenta, and the child is
attached to the uterine wall. And this removes the child from
the uterine wall. And then the abortionist is able
to just basically, you know, shove the pieces of the placenta
and the child out section aspiration abortion, they use a
long shaped cannula. It's about 12 times more
powerful than that, your household, vacuum cleaner
suction. Same idea, it can be like goes
up through the mother's birth canal into the uterus.
And the child, and the placenta is just sucked out.
The abortion pill with the chemical pill abortions, these
are very dangerous abortions. This is something that the
abortion industry has been really using covid as excuse to
push through and with the help of the by Administration.
They've been able to take all the risk evaluation mitigation
strategies away from these pills.
This is something that Bill Clinton and his administration
had assigned with the use of these pills because they have
been linked to death in women. These are now the most And type
of first trimester abortion. The first pill is taken supposed
to be taken in the abortion clinic after the abortion is has
confirmed pregnancy since December.
That doesn't the case. They don't even have to confirm
that she's pregnant. They don't even have to confirm
the location of the pregnancy to make sure she's not experiencing
a life-threatening Atomic pregnancy.
She can take the first pill at home.
The first pill, starves a child. It stops progesterone.
The hormone from getting to the child.
Tool which allows the child to grow.
And then the second pill is taken a few days later that is a
pill that basically starts the abortion and starts, the
contractions from happens from the starts to contractions and
over a period of days and weeks. She has the abortion at home and
we call them toilet bowl abortions because she is advised
by the abortion clinic to when she gets really heavy, cramping
and bleeding. To go on the toilet bowl, not to
look and to keep flushing. So that's the first trimester
second trimester abortions, rd&e dilation, and evacuation
abortions. They also stay still have that
correct, that Loop shaped device but what they first they do
after softening the cervix they can go into the cervix with the
stone for clamp and this clamp goes in and grabs pieces of the
child, the child is in breech position.
Position. So the feet are grabbed first,
so I'll leg a leg arm and arm, then the the trunk.
So the midsection of a child and the abortionist device to grasp
the feet, apart twist and Pull, and then finally, the head will
be the last part and so that is actually how the child is
literally dismembered in these types of abortions.
And you don't have to believe me, you can go to National
Abortion Federation. Up until I know a couple years
ago at the last time I was on their website, they actually
spelled out how to commit these abortions right on their website
after that after these you know what, they think, all the parts
are pulled out of the mother. The child is dismembered.
They insert the curette scrape, the lining of the uterus and the
goal is to make sure they get the placenta and then the other
parts of the child to reduce the risk of sepsis or infection.
That's a second trimester abortion.
The third trimester abortions, do happen.
Some people it's funny on campuses will like to argue with
me the third trimester abortions, don't happen.
But I literally know the people who do them, I can tell you
where their abortion facilities are.
You can go to Google and type in 9 months or eight months
abortion and you will find dr. William Hearn and folder.
There's a Clinic Southwest women's in Albuquerque.
New Mexico. There's There's dr.
Carhart, who's outside of Omaha and outside of Washington, d.c.
these abortions. The most common type of abortion
for a third trimester now is we call them hardtack abortions
using ultrasound guided technology.
The abortionist will try to get as close to the hardest possible
and they have a syringe long needle, very similar to the
needle to use an amniocentesis and they will inject Potassium
chloride or drug called digoxin into the child.
The goal of which is to produce a cardiac arrest, a heart attack
that the child. After that is done.
They will insert seaweed sticks live area into a woman's vagina
to soften her uterus. I'm sorry.
Her birth canal and her cervix, and she will go back to the
abortion facility, two to three days after.
And then, The thought being that her cervix is ripe and then they
can just kind of pull the child out.
She will deliver a dead child. That is the most common today
version of how they commit. A third trimester abortion.
Let's get into the top 10 pro-choice claims.
Here, her body. Her choice.
A woman is an autonomous being and bodily.
Autonomy is a basic human, right?
A fetus. Which is Only dependent on the
mother for sustenance has yet to acquire bodily autonomy.
As it cannot self-govern due to this dependence.
A fetus is not its own being her body, her choice.
What do you say? It's always funny how people who
constantly demand that we follow the science or that we don't
follow the science but yet when it comes to this actual
argument, literally deny the science literally, deny that a
child is, in fact, it's Unique, whole human being that has its
own body. And actually, you could argue
has its own Autonomy for their body.
Yes. The child's body is located
inside of her body but he or she has her own bodily autonomy.
This is a medical fact that the child is actually a separate.
Individual is separate human being with his or her own sex,
his or her own DNA, his, or her own blood type.
You know, when I was pregnant with my children with my Boys, I
suddenly did not become a man, Even though inside of my room,
there were growing male genitalia that my body didn't
change my child's body was developing into a male body,
this doesn't work at all. And when he often you hear this
argument from those who advocate for abortion, they're using it
simply to say a woman can do. Anything she wants with her
body, which actually is not true.
We don't actually accept that across our country as well.
You know, my children have some, you know, life-threatening
genetic illnesses. You cannot go into a pulmonary
Ward, a children's hospital and start smoking and say, well,
it's my body, my choice. No.
Because when you start taking actions, if your body that
threatened the lives of other bodies, the government has said,
Yeah, yeah we can stop you from doing that.
Also this idea that the fetus can't self gutter govern doesn't
actually hold a weight unless you're willing to accept that.
Infanticide should also be legal because the moment he or she
emerges from the birth canal. Do you think the fetus now the
infant can now self-govern, what has changed?
All that has changed in on. Child is their location that,
that little boy, or girl is still completely dependent on
their mother for survival. And the mother would be held at
that point criminally liable for a child's death.
If she neglects the responsibilities towards caring
for her child or fails to place her child with an adoptive
family or utilizes Safe Haven laws which allow her to freely
Lee, give her child to State authorities.
No questions asked. Pro-choice claim number two.
What we're dealing with is mostly first, trimester
abortions in which this child you.
Speak of is really just a microscopic clump of cells, not
a living breathing. Human being with thoughts,
emotions, goals and desires. There for an abortion is not
killing a person. Mmm, being human is the only
criteria that makes sense for you having the right.
Life protected and adjust society and it becomes very much
a slippery slope. When you start saying you have
to be human, plus you have to be a human being and have this
quality or this functional ability.
When you start saying that you start eliminating other groups
of human beings who have already been born and you don't have to
look very far back in the history of our world even in the
history of Our nation to see one, it wasn't enough just to be
a human being, but if you are a human being and your skin was
darker than others somehow that justified, their people being
allowed to own you or in history when we look back to the
disabled saying if well you're a human but your IQ level Falls
below this number therefore that gives the state the right.
To do a hysterectomy on you without you or your parents
consent so you can never procreate.
We have all uniformly as a society said, those things were
wrong and we should never go back to that those moments.
But that's exactly what we do when it comes to the preborn
fundamentally at the moment of conception, when the egg from
the mother and the sperm from the father, unite to those are
two parts and then Those two parts, unite a whole unique
human being comes into existence.
That's never existed before and will never exist.
Again, with a wholly unique, DNA code.
That is the moment that human life begins.
Its any moment when your human life began and to start saying,
well, you have to be able to breathe or you have to be able
to experience a certain emotion, or you have to be able to have
certain thoughts. That's not much different from
saying you have to have a certain skin color or a certain
sexual orientation or certain level liability or an IQ.
The preborn child is a human being is a member of our
species. That's really, the only box that
needs to be checked. Forcing a child into the world
to unwanted parents will lead to mass misery and much more crime
than what otherwise exist because parents aren't there to
properly rear the Old. The solution to suffering has
never been to eliminate the potential sufferer it's to
mitigate the suffering. I would say a society where it's
simply a status quo to kill someone who we deem might suffer
or who are data or stats might say.
Or might indicate that my read a criminal Enterprise at one point
my end up in jail. I think that's going to lead to
a more miserable society as a whole.
And I think that gets once again into a very slippery slope.
And I think this is really, this is B, this is framed a lot as
compassion that we are so compassionate as a society that
we have decided who is going to suffer and therefore we are just
going to Snuff them out of existence.
Distance before they're born. I think this is a really veiled
way of abdicating responsibility and it's really quite frankly
laziness to say we're just going to absolve ourselves of the
responsibility to seek social justice with some with a family,
or a woman or child. We're going to absolve ourselves
responsibility to fix this problem by just killing you.
And Nothing you out of existence.
Mandating that a woman needs to be a mother if she doesn't want
to is equivalent to enslaving. Her slavery is a moral.
There for forcing a woman to have a baby and perform at least
18 years of labor for the child is akin to forced labor and
slavery. Sorry I'm going to try not to
laugh at you. Okay, so the this is really
interesting because unless you're lecture talking about
cases of sexual assault which one percent of all abortions are
committed because of sexual assault or incest or because the
life of the mother as at stake, which I always find to be, you
know, interesting because they always bring me this, these
cases up. Justifying their extremist views
for a hundred percent of all abortions, but I've never found
anyone to say. Yes, I'm just a favor of
abortion, just these terrible circumstances but everything
else, I will work with you to ban abortion.
No, one ever says that the leftist uses these terrible
circumstances, these extreme circumstances to justify a
hundred percent of all abortions.
And so we hear this female slavery.
Are you it sometimes. But unless you're talking about
sexual assault, let you talk thing about incest, you're
talking about a woman who has engaged in a behavior that the
natural biological consequences are the creation of a unique old
human being. I talked a lot about taking
responsibility on campuses that, you know.
No one in the pro-life movement, you know, ever argues or
advocates for limiting, how many people you can have sex with or
what type of sex you can have. Our argument is that if you
engage and heterosexual sex that you acknowledge your engaging in
a behavior that has consequences and one of those consequences
can be the creation of a unique, whole living human being.
And I think that's, that's a really important point there,
there's also important point that no pro-life or is
advocating that a woman before stew parent her Child every
single state has a safe haven law that which allows a mother
to surrender her child within a certain time period after birth
that time period varies from state to state can be 48 Hours,
72 hours, you were longer with no questions asked, no criminal
repercussions. If she doesn't want to utilize a
stay safe haven law. She also has a option of
creating a closed adoption plan. Where a child is adopted into a
family. And she will never ever be, can
be in contact with that child or the child's family.
Again, she can also make an open adoption plan where she places a
child with a family of her choice and can actually remain
active and her baby's life based on conditions that she sets.
Aside II, think that that the that is just an argument that is
used to basically get attention and it sir, Only doesn't work
when it comes to parents of children who are older than
toddlers. Either, you know, if I decide
that two years old that, my child is too much of a burden.
I got a new promotion at work. I really just can't handle being
a parent of a toddler anymore. No one would say.
I was justified and drowning my toddler in the bathtub.
Everyone would say that was murder.
I could argue that. Forced to be a parent even
though at 2 years old. I decided no more.
But the state and our are just society.
Would say, no, you accepted that responsibility and part of
responsibility of being a parent is not killing your child.
Abortion will exist either way whether it's legal or illegal.
If it's illegal will have back alleys and coat hangers and very
unsafe for both the baby and the woman, but if abortions legal,
it will be safe legal and we're actually they've dropped the
rare now that it's been 60 million.
So actually, it will be much safer for the woman, both
mentally and the child. It'll be quick and over there
for abortion should be legal. Yeah.
I mean at first I'd say this logic is very inconsistent.
I don't see the abortion Lobby calling for rape or murder or
bank robbery to be decriminalized even though it
would be more convenient and it would spare the lives of the
perpetrators. The whole point of laws is to
protect the victim who could otherwise you know who those
otherwise would violate them. You know bank robbery is a
High-risk Perfection, if you choose to be a bank robber.
But no one says well we need to make it legal so bank robbers,
don't get killed I would go back to also your myth that legal
abortion means safe, abortions or that by making abortion
illegal. The, the the argument we often
hear is that tens of thousands of women will die every year
from illegal abortions. We know, From dr.
Bernard Nathanson, who was a co-founder of Nay real
pro-choice America, who was an abortionist committing illegal
abortions, in New York state and then late 1960s, New York was
one of the first states to legalize abortion but that is
just a myth that he actually admitted later in life in the
80s which he became pro-life that they made up the myth.
Attend that tens of thousands of women were dying from illegal
abortions but you do have to trust in our Nathanson because
he became pro-life go to Christopher teach Christopher
Keats was planned parenthood's. Very own award-winning, he won
their highest honor the Margaret Sanger of war.
The the award named after the eugenicist, who found a Planned
Parenthood in 1974 for his statistics research.
Christopher teats research, the death rate of women who were
seeking legal and illegal abortions in the years before.
And after Roe versus Wade was handed down by seven men in 1973
and his estimation in 1965 the number of women.
And who died from legal and illegal abortions was under 1000
women. You have Mary Calderon planned
parenthood's own medical director.
In the 1950s, who came out to write that her estimation ninety
percent of abortions were being committed by physicians, who she
called in good standing, and their Community.
Meaning, you know, they were Disturbed, Your Family.
Doctor, Who did abortions on the side for his side Hustle, but
didn't advertise it. And both, she and teats wrote In
the late 40s and 50s. That, you know, the threat for
women dying from abortions, was actually very low because of the
invention of penicillin antibiotics, because the highest
risks of two women, especially before Altra sounds was
infection or sepsis Final question.
Thank you so much for being generous with your time, Miss
Hawkins. If a woman is raped, let's say
well, this is about one percent of abortions.
Okay. Well then we could still say
this is a lot of potential suffering and this poor woman.
Now, sits for months on end with this rapists, baby in her
stomach who she's now giving birth to this is one of the
worst case scenario. What if a woman is raped then is
abortion morally Justified. Hmm rapist, a horrific crime and
rapists should be found and they should be punished to the
fullest extent of the law if she is raped.
She's going to need two things, support and Justice support.
She's going to need in every way.
Emotional physical, psychological because rape is a
horrific trauma. It's one.
I want to wish on my worst enemy.
It's a crime to violate a woman's body.
And also it's a crime to make her pregnant without her consent
and the pro-life movement does stand ready to support women who
survived sexual assault. If you research the pro-life
movement, you know, we have more than 3000 pregnancies, help
centers of already in existence, have been supported and staying
in our communities for nearly 50 years.
Abortion, you know, simply gets rid of the evidence of the
crime. It gets rid of the inconvenience
of having to stand with her and support her for extended
periods. And I actually find this to be a
very lazy argument from the left that.
Oh, she's raped. You can just have an abortion
having an abortion isn't going to end the trauma that she's
endured, right? This is a lifelong pain that she
will experience but it's almost like it's almost like a check,
the box. Of all.
Yeah, I help women. Who have been raped.
I've advocated for abortion, there you go done, I've done my
social justice work, I have I've stood in solidarity with her, I
think it's real easy to push another act of violence upon a
woman who's just experienced an act of violence and because it's
not going to make her forget about her rape, it's only going
to have her, you know, pushing her into the hands of an
abortionist who profits off of her despair.
So we financially profits from that it will only make her
question and wonder for the rest of her life.
Who her child could have been the other thing.
She's going to need Beyond supporters Justice.
She needs a perpetrator, be punished to the fullest extent
of the law. You know, I find it ironic that
the Supreme Court doesn't allow even rapist to receive the death
penalty. Not even child rapist.
But yet the child is put to death for the crimes of his
father that doesn't make logical sense.
If you think about my father, my father would go out today and
commit a rape or commit. An act of terrorism.
There would be no one in our society on CNN, or MSNBC, or
maybe MSNBC. But no, one in a logical society
would argue that I or my sister should be put to death for my
father's crimes. And when I bring that up, Tap on
campuses students in the lately, go back to of course not.
No one would argue that. And I said well why, why can't
you argue that? I should be put to death for my
father's crimes and they was and they say well it's because
you're a you're a living breathing human being and so
that question always goes back to what is it, what is a child
in that in the womb? Is it simply a clump of alien
cells? Or is it a member of our
species, that deserves protection and thirdly, I would
say That I would say, beyond the support and the Justice, I think
it's a very regressive you to hold that because someone was
conceived in rape, therefore, they're less valuable.
I just had a good friend of mine Ryan, bomber on my podcast, the
other week, he was conceived in rape.
His mother courageously chose to place him with an adoptive
family. He considers his mother who he's
never met doesn't know hero. No, but I think it's actually a
regressive you because if you were just thinking about the
abyss dealer day, like there was a period in time in our world
that if you were conceived out of wedlock, you were a bastard.
You couldn't inherit property. You couldn't do certain things.
You can't be at certain places because you are who your father
was and who your father was married to at the time, you were
conceived. This is exactly what we're
literally seeing argued on MSNBC and CNN, right?
Now, as we await the pending Dobbs decision, is that children
conceived in rape, and by the way, there are thousands of the
view is that like every single woman who gets who's rate
suddenly gets pregnant, that's not true about five percent of
women who are ready to survive, rape become pregnant half of
those women actually choose life.
So there are literally tens of thousands of people walking
around here in America today, who were conceived a rape who
we're literally Doing their lives.
Don't have any value. Excellent work, I definitely
recommend people. Check out Kristen Hawkins.com,
the podcast is explicitly pro-life you'll get excellent
gems. Like a very confident college
student coming up saying, why don't you focus on these women
who are already in shelters and Miss Hawkins will just say, is
it all right? That the American Diabetes
Association, doesn't focus on cancer and then the student will
be humbled for the first time in their life.
Coming up with the with something they haven't heard
before, links will be in the description below.
Thanks to everyone for watching the libertarian Institute Miss
Hawkins. Thank you so much for your time.
Thanks for having me. How are you today?