1 00:00:00,500 --> 00:00:04,200 The greatest bulwark against the state isn't online activist, but 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,500 rather powerful local families that have both the means and 3 00:00:07,500 --> 00:00:09,600 skin in the game to resist foreign power. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,400 Welcome to Keith's night. Don't tread on anyone. 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,600 And the libertarian Institute today. 6 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,500 I have so Bishop the author of that. 7 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,300 Excellent quote. He is the assistant editor at 8 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:21,200 The mises Institute. Mr. Bishop if people want to 9 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,100 find your collection of work, where is the best place to go? 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:37,400 What is Paleo libertarianism? The Paleo libertarianism was a 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:43,100 deliberate strategy promoted by Murray rothbard, Lew Rockwell 12 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:47,700 Justin raimondo and others in the 90s that kind of recognized 13 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:51,200 two important things for one. You have to time. 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,700 Their obviously. This is a post-cold war 15 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:58,700 political environment and they recognize that The Boogeyman of 16 00:00:58,700 --> 00:01:02,400 the Soviet Union, which not the below the little obviously, the 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:09,200 horrific Sure of that regime, but that had long been used as 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,700 the justification for the expansion of the American Empire 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,900 and for a hawkish foreign policy, which is sell translated 20 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:23,700 and variety of domestic stems. And alongside of that, it was 21 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:30,100 about 20 years. After really, a true, American 22 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,000 libertarian movement. If you think as a rothbard fans, 23 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,700 you think about, for New Liberty, which is a great book, 24 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:41,600 but what, Ross, hard and Rockwell, and part Guided by the 25 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:47,000 experience of Ron Paul as a Libertarian candidate in the 26 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,900 80s. They recognize that the people 27 00:01:51,900 --> 00:01:57,000 who identified as libertarian were not as good as the ideas of 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,300 libertarian. And and so the Paleo strategy 29 00:02:00,300 --> 00:02:02,600 wasn't explicit Outreach to the right. 30 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,600 Particularly the Paleo conservatives in the Pat 31 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:09,100 Buchanan, mold as well as a deliberate attempt to distance 32 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:14,100 themselves from the libertarian movement, as they saw it. 33 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:17,500 In the 90s. There is an excellent article, 34 00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:20,200 which you have four. Published called I believe it's 35 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,100 called the case for Paleo libertarianism by Lew Rockwell 36 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:24,000 in. There. 37 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:27,800 He says briefly paleo libertarianism with its old 38 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,000 roots with its roots in the old right sees 10 things. 39 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:35,400 Let's go over these ten things. Please explain to me why each 40 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,300 one of these is of importance that we should appreciate. 41 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,300 Number one, the Leviathan State as an Institutional source of 42 00:02:43,300 --> 00:02:47,900 evil throughout history. Yeah, I think that is something 43 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:50,700 that is that there's kind of a ballpoint to libertarian 44 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:52,600 perspective. But I think in this case is also 45 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,200 important with in that, that trying to tap into those old 46 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,000 right traditions because in particular kind of harking, back 47 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,500 to the ante No Deal coalition of. 48 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:04,400 And that's one of the things I think is so interesting and in 49 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,900 both the work of vocal rothbard Rockwell is their appreciation 50 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:12,600 for American political history and one of my favorite articles 51 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:17,200 strategy for a right cross bars and outlines how That's all the 52 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,700 right perspective. A lot of the framing of the 53 00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:25,500 dangers of the administrative fade them Alliance state for 54 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,300 Libertarians had an outsized impact on that relative 55 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:33,000 movement. So this kind of a hike knowledge 56 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,700 meant of the state and anti civilizational School. 57 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,500 Number two, the unhampered free market as a moral and practical 58 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:47,700 imperative. Yes, and this is one of again, 59 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,800 still at this point. I think the first six or seven 60 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,300 or kind of things are going to General libertarian ideas. 61 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,000 But of course, this is important, particularly in this 62 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,400 period if framing because of the right Outreach, where the 63 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:08,800 skepticism of the market, sometimes works against some of 64 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,100 the perhaps and goals of conservatives. 65 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,400 There is a great chapter in Papua kanan's book Church. 66 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,300 Kill Hitler in the unnecessary War. 67 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:20,000 I think it's sarcastically titled, man of the century about 68 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,100 Winston Churchill. And he says he cites, that May 69 00:04:23,100 --> 00:04:27,500 11th 1940 was the day that Britain basically engaged in 70 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:30,900 some of the most barbarous heinous acts when they started 71 00:04:30,900 --> 00:04:34,800 to try and win the war by focusing on civilian targets. 72 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,900 It was all thought up by a guy named Frederick Linda man. 73 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,600 So far from moral degeneracy being the result of free markets 74 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,000 private property, voluntary exchange and Families. 75 00:04:44,500 --> 00:04:47,700 It's the state where people are so blinded by the belief in 76 00:04:47,700 --> 00:04:51,900 political Authority and the erroneous hatred of the quote 77 00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:54,800 enemy that they're able to justify things. 78 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,200 They would otherwise she has blatantly illegitimate. 79 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,600 So, I think Buchanan is such a great Ally. 80 00:04:59,700 --> 00:05:02,500 When it comes to showing that the state is the enemy of 81 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:06,500 morality and civilization rather than the free market. 82 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:07,900 Are. There any things you focus on 83 00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:09,500 when communicating to conservatives? 84 00:05:09,500 --> 00:05:13,400 Why the free market is something they should appreciate when it 85 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,600 comes to wanting to live. Moral and civil lives. 86 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:20,600 One of the important thing right now is I think that will kind of 87 00:05:20,608 --> 00:05:24,500 on the defensive because, you know, we're when conservatives 88 00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:27,300 talk about like don't like what you do right now and some of the 89 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:31,000 intellection interesting intellectual fears when you're 90 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,100 right. I mean, they will attack the 91 00:05:33,108 --> 00:05:36,000 word capitalism and much the same way. 92 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,900 The left will as kind of using that as a description of the 93 00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:44,200 current state. And I think that one of the 94 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,400 priorities I think this is this is not only, I think, an 95 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,800 important theoretical Point obviously and an improved way of 96 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,500 properly understand the world that's exist. 97 00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:58,100 But also strategic points that you know, we have to highlight 98 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,900 the degree, particularly what the objections out. 99 00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:05,700 There are often, even for example, right now, that the 100 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:09,100 corporate consolidation of power big Tech, the Black Rock and 101 00:06:09,108 --> 00:06:12,600 things like that. And so highlighting that a lot 102 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,100 of their complaint about About big business about these 103 00:06:17,100 --> 00:06:20,500 monopolies and things like that are not the product. 104 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:25,200 Either the result of a free market that some of these 105 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,200 trainee other than the trade Arrangement that I've Rosen 106 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,200 since the 90s or not free trade, but government managed trade, 107 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,100 which is why Ralph Buchanan were allies on NASA and others, but 108 00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:39,500 really the consequence of global of financialization of and the 109 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:44,000 role of the fed and and the the disconnect of sound money as 110 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:50,100 being a Major Benchmark that if you politicize size of an inch 111 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:52,700 and any try to build houses, I mean that's going to create some 112 00:06:52,700 --> 00:06:55,500 issues and get kind of same way that we have with the issue with 113 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:57,400 fiat currency and as members of the economy. 114 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:03,200 If they exist today for trying to engage in a meaningful way, 115 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,200 what the often we it's a game of semantics and it's a bit but 116 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,800 it's a problem is is that if we get frustrated and throw up our 117 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:16,300 hands and don't engage on this issue, did not Not only does it 118 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,900 prevent us from working with people like Pat Buchanan that 119 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:23,800 have a proper understanding of the dangers of the American 120 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:29,000 Empire and pox Americana, but also it will necessarily make 121 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,000 whatever the American Ride and whatever power. 122 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,400 It has less libertarian by simply lacking any serious 123 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:36,800 engagement on these things seriously. 124 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:41,600 So it's like, I think this is the key area of intellectual 125 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,500 discussion that why paleo Libertarians Are so important 126 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:48,400 because they were the only ones that can kind of communicate on 127 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,100 Comics dog sheet. I think that's so vitally 128 00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:53,400 important. So, while the conservatives are 129 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,400 absolutely right about big Tech being more or less a criminal 130 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,500 Syndicate. At this point, the US government 131 00:08:00,500 --> 00:08:03,800 just seized 22 websites the other day, including press 132 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,500 tv.com. So it's not that should we have 133 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:11,100 a free market where bad things happen or a political system 134 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:13,800 instead of having bad things? No bad things are going to 135 00:08:13,808 --> 00:08:15,100 happen on. Or which system. 136 00:08:15,100 --> 00:08:17,600 Would you rather those bad things occur at least in the 137 00:08:17,608 --> 00:08:19,500 free market? You have some competition and 138 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:22,700 lower barriers to entry. So, yeah, excellent point about 139 00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:25,500 the big tech conglomerates there. 140 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:45,800 What number Big Tex the problem will kind 141 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,000 gesture but I think that's wasn't really interesting thing 142 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,100 about rothbart's analysis. They like Teddy Roosevelt who 143 00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:52,800 was one of those popular figures that the American rights, the 144 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:58,300 resurrection of his bull moose or Teddy populism, some of that 145 00:08:58,300 --> 00:08:59,200 just a pathetic. Right? 146 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,200 You know, Teddy Roosevelt, does admittedly have come this Macho 147 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,600 aesthetic, which is I understand. 148 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,400 What's popular But ultimately what the lessons are there. 149 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,000 Is that me what? Teddy Roosevelt Windows busting 150 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,600 trust. He wasn't create you even taking 151 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,100 out some of the power he's taking out his rival Sinister 152 00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:15,800 power. And and and so we can like we 153 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,100 want to understand the corrupted nature of the Empire itself and 154 00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:21,800 particularly considering if you are a cultural conservatives and 155 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,100 you don't recognize the degree to which, you know, the debate 156 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:27,900 at all levels of power and are never going to be wheeled in to 157 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:30,200 our advantage. And I think that it also 158 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,400 highlights the importance of, we don't want to give further power 159 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,600 to 12 to the enemy of DC typical were chasing after the end of 160 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,400 the fucking ballot. So I think the work is never on 161 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,400 the Santa Cruz reported some of these your Having State lovers 162 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,600 to from apply pressure. There's a much better approach 163 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:48,100 than. So again. 164 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:50,400 That's why they're smooth. Why the battleground of some 165 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:51,800 point? It's also an opportunity that we 166 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,900 need to engage with it. Honestly, rather than kind of 167 00:09:53,908 --> 00:09:55,700 retreating to the easy talking point. 168 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,200 Exactly Point number. Three by Lew Rockwell private 169 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,300 property as an economic and moral necessity for a free 170 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:36,900 Society. Strong protection of property 171 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:41,800 rights given few institutions that can push back against the 172 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,800 prevailing Zeitgeist of the day and obviously given where the 173 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,400 cultural lovers of Power are right. 174 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,500 Now. Again, if you are, even if 175 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:51,200 you're a great American conservative, without any sort 176 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,200 of sympathies to libertarianism as as a spin one philosophy, you 177 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,400 should appreciate that. You're in the minority when it 178 00:10:57,408 --> 00:10:59,500 comes to over the power. That's when appreciation of 179 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:03,600 property rights, a failure to appreciate property rights and 180 00:11:03,608 --> 00:11:07,600 suicidal. Point Number Four, The Garrison 181 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,200 State as a preeminent threat to Liberty and social well-being. 182 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,100 Yes, and I think this is particularly interesting right 183 00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:19,200 now because, you know, we're in a period right now. 184 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:22,000 If you'd war on domestic Terror, Glenn Greenwald among other been 185 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:27,500 great, particles of this change, the by Administration and and 186 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:30,000 even though kind of maybe the argument to pass about standing 187 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,700 armies and things like that. It's because concealed 188 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:37,800 Antiquated a time. What we're seeing now is federal 189 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,400 use of Grant programs to local law enforcement. 190 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,200 Aunt as as a means of trying. Then you and of course, the 191 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,200 more, the federal government places its fingerprints on local 192 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,300 law enforcement, the greater consequence that has when you 193 00:11:55,308 --> 00:11:59,000 think of kind of prevailing Grassroots movements, but for in 194 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,800 nullification laws and things like that you want law 195 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,200 enforcement. If you're going to have you 196 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,300 know, a body dedicated to law enforcement and property of 197 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:12,200 production of for your protection of property rights. 198 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:14,800 You Want it to be made up of those in the community. 199 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,300 Not those Allied to a district capital. 200 00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:22,100 Point number five, the welfare state as organized theft that 201 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:27,900 victimizes producers and eventually even its clients and 202 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:31,400 that is something that I think it was a focal point of 203 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,600 important because in that used to be a very common held 204 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,200 tradition with the old bright and of course, you know, the 205 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,800 issues quickly. Now, there's this Rising 206 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,500 economic populist argument that will try to make conservative 207 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:46,700 defenses of the welfare state. Of course, I think one of the 208 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:49,800 things that makes this little bit different than the Deal is 209 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:54,300 living on inflationary environment, the store, you 210 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:58,800 know, because we've lived in a period of consistent Improvement 211 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,100 of material well-being for a variety of different reasons. 212 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:05,600 Once that change, as we move into an inflationary 213 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:10,800 environment, a lot of the considerations of the right 214 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,100 economic. Let's go out the window. 215 00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:17,100 When you start feeling real consequences to welfare programs 216 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:20,600 in my life. Point number six, civil 217 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,200 liberties based on property rights as essential to a just 218 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,600 society. And I think the key there is 219 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,700 good, grounding it in property, right? 220 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:32,700 Rather abstract nature of the Vic, right? 221 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:34,800 Which is kind of the religion of the Empire. 222 00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:38,500 Yeah. So that's the warning there. 223 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:41,500 I think it's very particular, very important Point number 224 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:45,700 seven, the egalitarian ethic as morally, reprehensible and 225 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:48,600 destructive of private property and social Authority. 226 00:13:49,700 --> 00:13:53,900 And this is when, you know, with the article illumination for 227 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:56,600 that distance an area where some Libertarians or disagree in 228 00:13:56,700 --> 00:14:00,400 understand place though, and I think importantly so and I think 229 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,900 this kind of gets the goal you. This is why you know recently in 230 00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:06,800 conversations with Dave Smith and others. 231 00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:11,800 It's my the conversation kind of be like a watered down into the 232 00:14:11,808 --> 00:14:15,300 Republican Party versus libertarian party for me. 233 00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:18,600 My underlying to me. Those are the consequences. 234 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,300 Camera large triply for have, which is being a Liberty 235 00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:25,300 Movement at the unified and he is going to bang. 236 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,100 I think counterproductive precisely because of 237 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:30,700 disagreements on these next three points here. 238 00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:34,600 I think show a significant disagreements and what should it 239 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,900 be Society? Be if you after the state. 240 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:41,300 And, of course, the university, he rejection, egalitarian, be 241 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:45,400 egalitarian ISM. As a romantic ideal or a name, 242 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:51,400 obviously reflected and He must read article and rothbard zagal 243 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,500 Shrine of the galaxy arianism has a revolt against Nate, but 244 00:14:55,500 --> 00:15:00,800 also something that is very baked into like the worldview of 245 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,500 food Von mises and others. So, again, this, this is where 246 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:06,500 you start getting the fun cultural differences within the 247 00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:08,800 libertarian movement. Sure. 248 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:13,000 And rothbard, excellent point in that book, the collection of 249 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,500 essays yell terrorism as revolt against nature. 250 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,700 He says that, you know, it might be a little Infusing seeing 251 00:15:19,700 --> 00:15:22,900 presidents in the most powerful people on Earth, talking about 252 00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:27,100 equality, like you. And I are so unequal me and, you 253 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:31,400 know, Boris Johnson at the G7, the need for a quality, your 254 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:33,600 million times more powerful than I'll ever be. 255 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,900 And he says, this is a brilliant tactic, because it's not only 256 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:40,500 undefinable, but it's unachievable under any system 257 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:44,300 fascism syndicalism, capitalism socialism, whatever you want to 258 00:15:44,308 --> 00:15:48,000 call it. So it the existence of a lack of 259 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,800 equality. Justifies further egalitarian 260 00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:54,800 legislation, which justifies more and more, and more. 261 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,600 And it, it just is a, I think the, the term itself, licking 262 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,800 ice cream cone is how it's like, you invade a country mess things 263 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,400 up and say, well, look how bad things are. 264 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,000 We need to really step it up in here. 265 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:11,600 So, again, this, this happens Point number eight, social 266 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,800 Authority. As embodied in the Family Church 267 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,900 community and other intermediating institutions, as 268 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:21,500 helping protect the The individual from the state and as 269 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:24,200 necessary for the free and a virtuous Society. 270 00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,300 Can't get it to the point that you open the comment. 271 00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:31,300 I was getting that you quoted at the beginning of episode of said 272 00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:37,700 II, there's no greater defense against the reform of the state. 273 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:41,300 It's not simply the levers of power and the raw brutality of 274 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,600 the fifth of government, but it was also a bit of a cultural 275 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:52,400 Zeitgeist they did and it requires self-sustaining strong 276 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,800 Networks. To withstand that and of course, 277 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,400 beautiful. We are, we are not hyper or 278 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,800 atomized individuals. We are born into families, who 279 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:05,300 are born into communities. We are born into language groups 280 00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:09,000 and religions, and all of these aspects that is recite, Human 281 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:14,800 Society is so much deeper than simply our political Viewpoint. 282 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,300 And again, this is something that you meet these. 283 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:21,099 It's something that I think it's very telling when you see some 284 00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:22,800 of the target. For example, Nick left and I'm 285 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,300 not trying to compete cheap shot but like In the past. 286 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:28,500 He has explicitly Define his view of libertarianism as the 287 00:17:28,508 --> 00:17:30,600 promotion of all What alternative Lifestyles. 288 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,600 And of course, that's something that would be, you know, that 289 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,100 that is not the way that they are lured. 290 00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:41,400 Von mises a man of Old Europe would be defining a liberalism 291 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,900 properly understood and I didn't go to some of the cultural 292 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,500 differences there. Yeah, it almost has this 293 00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:49,600 critical theory approach of alternative lifestyle. 294 00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,500 So in other words if we convince everyone of self-ownership 295 00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:54,400 non-aggression and private property live. 296 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:58,700 Bert arianism would then mean an alternative to the current 297 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,800 practicing of voluntary exchanges and voluntary 298 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,600 contracts. There's nothing to even sink 299 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,800 your teeth into with that, Gillespie definition. 300 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,900 You going at the Funny, Bone, a, for carrying all that, all the 301 00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:29,100 of, all of the great things. I'm not putting all of that. 302 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,300 But especially this last year has really helped me. 303 00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:34,900 Is that Liberty is not an individual value. 304 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:37,300 It is this fairly a collective value. 305 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,000 Yeah. I thought were man and a 306 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:44,800 tyrannical regime doesn't have a lot of freedom but a, being a 307 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,300 member of a society that values Freedom, as an end. 308 00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:53,400 That is what actually a lot of people live free, not simply, 309 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,700 you know, Argue about who's the most Libertarian person and, you 310 00:18:56,708 --> 00:18:59,500 know, Amazon Gulag right at the difference there. 311 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,900 Sure. That's why I love that. 312 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,100 Image of individualism and collectivism. 313 00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:08,500 In the individual, they're shaking hands and the 314 00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:11,100 collectivists. Their hands are cuffed and 315 00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:14,300 they're being forced to shake. So it's not everyone does their 316 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:16,600 own thing. You know, as Henry hazlitt said, 317 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,800 you can't even make a pencil by yourself. 318 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,000 You can't even come close. So, therefore it, we're all in 319 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,200 this together. We want to do so on a voluntary. 320 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,600 Peace. All private property, ethic 321 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,700 basis. Yes. 322 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:30,200 I think that's a vitally important point for us to 323 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,800 appreciate number nine, Western culture as eminently, worthy of 324 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,300 preservation and defense and, and obviously pushed back to get 325 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:47,300 any sort of sort of recognition of the degree to, which Liberty 326 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:49,000 with the uniquely Western virtue. 327 00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:53,800 And from that extrapolated it what what they direct byproduct 328 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,900 of Christian culture. And again, this is true 329 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:03,600 regardless of your view on the theology involved. 330 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,800 It has been dabbling in the culture that evolved in the west 331 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,800 grounded in judeo Christian values. 332 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:16,500 And that's rough Reiko work on the threat on what made the west 333 00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:18,400 or the what the other European miracle in the like the other. 334 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,300 There's also it's a very good. This is another area where my 335 00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:26,300 views have changed. Last few years with what I, you 336 00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:31,600 know, full appreciation of the debt that we owe from that 337 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,700 Western Christian Legacy. It regardless of your religious 338 00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:36,800 views. Have you read? 339 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,800 Gosh, it's been so long. I think it's it's Tom. 340 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,800 Woods is book how the Catholic church built Western 341 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,500 Civilization. I've not read that one in 342 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:50,700 particular. I have read rothbart's history 343 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:55,000 of economic thought which pays a lot of It is Rich. 344 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,100 I acknowledge the contributions of the Catholic church and 345 00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:59,100 within that it currently. Now, based off the 346 00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:02,000 recommendation of her met Eric and I'm reading Tom Hollands 347 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,800 Dominion, which, which provides Chris or proper historical 348 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,200 context for just how revolutionary the example of 349 00:21:08,208 --> 00:21:10,400 Christ was. And that's a fact this has been 350 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,200 a fascinating read but it's something I remember a few years 351 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,800 ago at the Institute during our research conference Dania, Jamie 352 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,800 and David wonderful talk on the cost of the Enlightenment, much 353 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,300 was one of those radical things that are seeing. 354 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:30,300 It was saying a lot and that really invite questions, you 355 00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:34,800 know, sort of the classical sort of liberal framework. 356 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,500 There's anyone out there. If you're if you're in this 357 00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:40,300 topic, that talk has been something, I'd highly recommend. 358 00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:43,500 Oh, yeah. Well, it's what we need to learn 359 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,700 the lessons that were constantly saying with everything there are 360 00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,900 costs and benefits. Even you know, what, the guy 361 00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:53,500 Theodore John Kaczynski was talking about all the costs of 362 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:56,500 the Industrial Revolution. Ellucian and how it can lead to, 363 00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,100 you know, people not being in families and communities and 364 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:02,800 feeling that the whole world is on their shoulders alone. 365 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,600 They don't have people to lean on. 366 00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:09,300 So yeah, there's a there's cost to everything one thing about 367 00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:12,000 Western Civilization. Molyneux Stefan. 368 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Molyneux. The philosopher said that doubt 369 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,900 is the one thing that makes Western Civilization unique. 370 00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:22,700 Going back to Socrates willing to question, fundamental ideas. 371 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:25,900 Scientists willing to question. In the Pope's Authority 372 00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:29,900 separation of church and state. I think you're gonna go to hell 373 00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:32,800 if you don't believe what I believe, but I'm not positive. 374 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,200 So I'm still going to let you be free. 375 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,700 Do you see doubt as what makes Western Civilization unique and 376 00:22:38,700 --> 00:23:10,700 worthy of preservation. All that. 377 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:19,700 Niall Ferguson his book on has made the West, the best play the 378 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,100 highlights that as one of the pisan in. 379 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:29,400 Yeah, I think there's a lot of important Concepts in 380 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:35,600 abstractions that you can't be able to take a foothold in the 381 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,600 western world because of those underlying cultural values. 382 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,600 And I think that the complex network of them all. 383 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,900 Is what allowed for the flourishing of Liberty and the 384 00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:49,800 civilization Point number 10, finally objective standards of 385 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,000 morality, especially as found in the judeo Christian tradition as 386 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,700 a central to the free and civilized social order. 387 00:23:57,700 --> 00:23:59,500 Yep. And again, I get a disc. 388 00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:05,900 This is It's the key of it. And yeah, and it's this is often 389 00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:10,100 one of the one of the aspects that is criticized by certain 390 00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:15,900 types of libertarian, where it's, because this is kind of a 391 00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:19,300 push back against the idea that the NASA is enough, right? 392 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:20,800 You know that. Yeah, that. 393 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,500 Yeah. And and, you know, so it is, is 394 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:28,900 it detrimental, you know before? Or a Conservative Christian 395 00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:30,800 family live next to a bunch of dude. 396 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,100 It's the things like that. Yeah, they the importance of 397 00:24:33,108 --> 00:24:36,200 Community Values for a cohesive society. 398 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,800 And and I think that again that this is one of those fun Hots 399 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,300 cultural views. And this is also why I guess II 400 00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:50,100 think that a rejection of that. As a norm, makes it difficult 401 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:59,600 for a Liberty Movement to result in a cohesive. 12:40, is it 402 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,600 right on that article? Like Luke quotes that Jackie 403 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:08,200 Cooper JK Chesterton something extent of, you know, we agree on 404 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,400 what what the evil is. But it is upon the question of 405 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,500 what is the good that we call each other's eyes out? 406 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,800 And I think about some of these discussions. 407 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,700 I've come with my Erickson and some of the others, then sort of 408 00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:23,100 the questioning of what this libertarian movement really 409 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:26,700 stands for, and I think a lot of that stems from disagreement on 410 00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:29,600 what, But where do you expect all this to end? 411 00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:33,200 And again, I think that, if your goal, if you recognize the 412 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,400 strengths of a society grounded in those judeo-christian ethics, 413 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:44,200 I think that it for one. Helps you prioritize, which 414 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,800 issues are out there terms of Outreach, and also makes it a 415 00:25:48,808 --> 00:25:51,500 lot easier to identify who those people you should be. 416 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:53,200 Get. You should be reaching out to 417 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,900 come. Come, come in to be exact. 418 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,700 I really saw this in a post that recently went sort of viral. 419 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,600 This was both any Progressive and left libertarian circles. 420 00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:11,600 And it was something like why are people always like? 421 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:15,500 Oh, I hope that homeless person doesn't spend the money. 422 00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:18,800 I give them on drugs or alcohol. Once I give them money. 423 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,700 It's not my business anymore. That is only something. 424 00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:26,400 Someone would they totally left? His mindset would say, I mean, 425 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,300 Are you kidding me? You don't care. 426 00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:34,100 Whether they use it to get a bus ride to get a job application or 427 00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:38,000 use it. I mean, either crystal meth or 428 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,500 job application. They don't have they don't have 429 00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:43,100 any standards. Whereas you would never hear any 430 00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:47,000 Trump, DeSantis Marjorie, Taylor green supporter say that and 431 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,600 when you have that kind of worldview, we should really be 432 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,900 aligning with the people who sort of at least recognize the 433 00:26:53,900 --> 00:27:00,100 difference there. And again, it comes down to a 434 00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:09,200 lot of Libertarians are attracted to the convenient. 435 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,800 Ask you that they see libertarianism as a way of kind 436 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,900 of justifying life decisions at times. 437 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:20,300 And I get I did this this goes into some of the Kinks that Lou 438 00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:22,500 and Marie had about the libertarian movement that they 439 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:27,700 watched evolved around them. And that's why like why I love 440 00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:31,700 so much reading the depth of Mason's as work because even 441 00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:36,700 though he was a great Economist, even though he was a proud and 442 00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:43,600 passionate author of classical liberal political thought, you 443 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,100 know, ultimately what he was. Illustrating, a variety of 444 00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:54,800 different disciplines with what are the, what is required for 445 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,700 civilization to thrive? And that requires a lot more 446 00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:02,600 than their understanding of an app that requires more than, you 447 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,300 know, a belief in Lafayette, their economic policy at the end 448 00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:08,700 in itself. You know, it requires your, what 449 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:14,500 allows for the driving and getting this they terrifying 450 00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:17,600 aspect is that you know civilization is who built by 451 00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:21,100 having low time, from right, you know, planting trees that are 452 00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:26,100 grandkids are going to be able to benefit from and then, you 453 00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:30,400 know a a talk show libertarian framework allows you to fully 454 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:37,800 recognize the how structured our institutions are to promote High 455 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,800 Time, preference, short, term behavior, and I think a lot of 456 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,800 Libertarians They may differ on the margins State. 457 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:50,000 They they have no problem, reducing human existence down to 458 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:52,400 you know, self-gratification units. 459 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:55,300 And again, I think that's problematic. 460 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,700 Excellent points there one things that the conservatives 461 00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:03,000 are also right about I think is the importance of identity. 462 00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:06,600 I don't know if you've seen these two top trending stories 463 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:12,400 on Twitter, but one was Demi Lovato comes out as non-binary. 464 00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:16,800 Man comes out as Korean, he is no longer British. 465 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,300 He identifies as Korean and after 18, plastic surgeries will 466 00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:22,800 only respond to you calling him Korean. 467 00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:26,500 This is such a sad case of people needing and identity, 468 00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:29,000 something to feel Something to Believe In. 469 00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:33,100 I can't imagine kids working in the coal mines, saying, I think 470 00:29:33,100 --> 00:29:35,100 I'm transgender. I think I'm Korean and then 471 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:37,200 they're beating away. It's like you would never have 472 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,000 time for such such bizarre nonsense. 473 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,800 Do you think, how do you think Libertarians can? 474 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,600 Benefit from recognizing the importance of identity were 475 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,400 regarding the individual and the community. 476 00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:58,000 Well, I think I think the community aspect is one of my 477 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,000 favorite talks about limiting to. 478 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,400 It was Jeff tight Corner libertarian talk where he gets 479 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,900 to the point of you know, what were you, what do you want to 480 00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:10,100 fight for? And the problem is one of the 481 00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:13,600 things, the Libertarians I think take for granted, is they assume 482 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,700 that everyone else kind of think like, them or has the ability to 483 00:30:16,700 --> 00:30:19,800 think like them? And the problem is that a lot of 484 00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:24,800 people don't like, a lot of people are not motivated by 485 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:33,300 abstract arguments and and concerns with Hyper rational, 486 00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:39,300 logical consistency. They are motivated by a sense of 487 00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:44,700 security, by a sense of Pride, by these tribalistic sort of 488 00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:50,700 Nature's there and there is A bad habit that can arise from 489 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,900 strong intellectual Traditions to think that the real goal is 490 00:30:54,900 --> 00:31:01,000 to kind of improve Humanity. Have a evolved past these 491 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,100 archaic past rituals, you know, like family and tribe and God 492 00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:09,200 and all that sort of stuff. And I think that is given, that 493 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,700 that's kind of, underlying Dynamic of progressive was than, 494 00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:17,200 I think, properly understood. And that is something that that 495 00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:22,000 Libertarians could benefit from some humility in that regard. 496 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,000 And I think there's something to be said about how the old adage 497 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,100 of that. Pillar a movement that 498 00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:30,400 Libertarians have a lot to learn from conservatives about culture 499 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,200 and what it means to maintain a cohesive Society. 500 00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:37,300 I'm all conservative a lot to learn from overturned on 501 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:41,700 economic issues. Of course, on page, 197 of 502 00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:43,500 democracy. The God That Failed hunts APA 503 00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:46,200 says States. Everywhere were intent upon 504 00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:49,100 breaking down and ultimately destroying families and the 505 00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:52,200 institutions and layers and hierarchies of authority that 506 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,900 are the natural outgrowth of family-based communities, in 507 00:31:55,900 --> 00:31:59,100 order to increase and strengthen their own power. 508 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,000 What do you think is important for Libertarians to recognize 509 00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:07,000 the importance of competing authorities to the state's 510 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:17,100 attempted Monopoly? As well, I think Libertarians 511 00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:19,800 have been better on this than most. 512 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,400 I think they people that have needed this this lesson. 513 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,600 And I think I've gotten this lesson couldn't card particular 514 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,000 past year or conservative particular with the issues in 515 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,400 public school system, you know, I think that there have been a 516 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,100 naivete about just how much the state particularly that at the 517 00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:41,500 federal level education. North inevitable, stated that do 518 00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:45,900 matter but the degree to, which the state of is a benevolent 519 00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:49,100 actor. And I think, yeah, I am. 520 00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:54,300 I'm encouraged at the degree to, which the the kind of too full 521 00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:56,100 for one. Seeing the fruits of our 522 00:32:56,100 --> 00:33:00,700 education system often burning down cities last year with with 523 00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,600 these kind of left. If Mom coupled with the 524 00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:08,500 Awakening of the dangers of critical race Theory. 525 00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:12,200 No. More that conservative well 526 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:18,800 recognized that the state institutions are built to 527 00:33:19,100 --> 00:33:24,700 undermine their connection to their most important asset their 528 00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:28,100 children. That is one of those ways where, 529 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,700 you know, a a massive change in the way that they view. 530 00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:34,100 Those institutions can considering how many, how many 531 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,200 more conservatives are out there, going to tear. 532 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,700 And that's something that I think has the potential. 533 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,900 Home to do some significant damage to the regime. 534 00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:49,200 There's a number of things that unites people on the quote. 535 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,700 Right? And I think this is why we have 536 00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:54,800 so much in common with the DeSantis supporters. 537 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,100 Trump supporters, Marjorie, Taylor green supporters. 538 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,300 Whereas it's extremely difficult to really get along with some of 539 00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:05,300 these left-libertarians, especially ones, you like, who 540 00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:08,900 are, you know, defending critical race Theory, the actual 541 00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:13,000 racism that is Is a big problem in America so we discussed 542 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,600 probably the first main thing that right-wingers have in 543 00:34:15,607 --> 00:34:19,199 common, the hatred of egalitarianism specially 544 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,000 egalitarian outcomes. Another thing that connects us 545 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,199 is the idea of negative rights that you are not inherently owed 546 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,000 something by others Society or the state. 547 00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:33,000 What do you think? Do you think focusing on - 548 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,800 rights is important? I think it is. 549 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,199 So I think there's a, when the use of things that for all of 550 00:34:41,207 --> 00:34:44,000 the other failings of the Constitution. 551 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,000 It does make a good rhetorical Benchmark. 552 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:51,900 So, so, again, I'm very sympathetic to the Views, 553 00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:55,000 Lysander Spooner. But if your goal is a rhetorical 554 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,400 one to communicate, you being able to, to ground your 555 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,800 Viewpoint and Founding Fathers, as opposed to an anarchist 556 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,900 philosopher, definitely has had some strong. 557 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,400 Strength there. But yeah, and that's the beauty 558 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,000 of it. I mean, this is why rothbard 559 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,000 conceived in Liberty series would have a love letter to the 560 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,200 or internships at the founding of the American tradition. 561 00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:22,900 It's something that it's very tempting at consulate. 562 00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:29,000 Ryan's, I think to feel that they were involved in, even this 563 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,600 kind of tribal connection, but I think grounding that 564 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,800 particularly given the advantage that we have, as Eric and in 565 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,400 that Heritage makes a whole lot easier to outreach for the 566 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,700 right. And again and if your goal is 567 00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:46,900 forming a formidable political alliances, sometimes I think 568 00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:51,100 that is a obvious Common Ground. There Thomas Soul said something 569 00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:54,700 that connects the right is the constrained view of the world, 570 00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:57,200 which is the moral limitations of human beings. 571 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,900 In particular, their egocentricity, self-centeredness 572 00:35:59,900 --> 00:36:03,200 and selfishness are accepted as inherent Facts of Life. 573 00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:06,400 The Challenge is to make the best Of the possibilities that 574 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,100 exist within that constraint rather than waste energy trying 575 00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:13,600 to change human nature along with things like, you know, 576 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,200 admiration of strength and achievement. 577 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,800 Do you see the conflict of Visions or the constrained view 578 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,800 as something that should be appreciated? 579 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,600 Or is that more of an intellectual thing? 580 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,800 We don't exactly need to harp on with conservatives. 581 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,100 Now do I think that there's always different? 582 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,900 You could house, but I think that this does go to an 583 00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:41,900 important point in highlighting them. 584 00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:44,300 Some of those differences that exist of the libertarian ranks, 585 00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:47,200 which is important in your Outreach to the right. 586 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,000 Because again, I think that that is a rejection of that sort of 587 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,300 progressive nature, your Progressive view of humanity is 588 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:59,600 something fixable, you know, you recognizing that we were living 589 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,500 in a fallen world and that the plans perhaps made with the best 590 00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:07,900 of intentions will be abused. Used by, if there's ability for 591 00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:11,100 the big, be corrupted and abuse people will find means to do so 592 00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:15,500 know that that is a level of humility. 593 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,600 If it take it at face, graded provides a level of humility 594 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,600 that most Progressive or people that have those very 595 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:30,700 revolutionary view have to reckon with what is the most 596 00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:33,800 important thing you've learned from or contribution of Lew 597 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:41,000 Rockwell. I can totally rock wall to be 598 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:47,000 one of the the indefensible men of the idea that Civilization 599 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:52,300 ham of a rider. I mean things such a eloquent, 600 00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:56,000 beautiful and subset of writer. He eat, he writes with this 601 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,900 level of gratitude that I think is really kind of key to kind of 602 00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:03,300 like kind of a mises Institute for the Fantastic tradition. 603 00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:06,200 A lot of ways. I mean the way that he just I'll 604 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,400 break figures like nieces and rothbard and never put the 605 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,900 attention on himself. But also, I mean, but more 606 00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:17,700 importantly than that is the role of mu as a system Builders 607 00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:21,100 and it's an institution Builder and then this one thing I love 608 00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:24,800 about sort of mises Institute type. 609 00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:28,500 Yeah, I'll do a lot of our material that can look at the 610 00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:31,000 development of intellectual movements in the role that 611 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,800 institution play in there. That allow idea. 612 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,900 Has to really stay in and be kept alive and spread and thrive 613 00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:44,800 in advance, and involved. And the ability of the fact that 614 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,100 Lou Rockwell was able to build an institution that has lasted, 615 00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:51,900 almost 40 years to the dedication of the ideas of Luis 616 00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:54,800 Von mises and the Austrian school because it's truly 617 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,600 incredible. And that's why I like anybody 618 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:58,100 out there. Again. 619 00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:00,800 It's if you find an article that of loaded, ring that you 620 00:39:00,808 --> 00:39:04,900 disagree, with, if you care at all about Liberty, if you care 621 00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:07,800 at all about He's a rapper and about things and you're not 622 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,400 grateful for the work that that Lou has. 623 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,600 And if you don't deserve to the ideas of the recent rothbard 624 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:18,600 like that, he's done it. Most important thing you learned 625 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:28,800 from literally Von mises. Courage. 626 00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:37,400 We are so lucky. I mean, I mean, Luis Von mises 627 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,600 maybe the greatest intellectual figures of human history, as far 628 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:47,200 as I'm concerned, but even greater than any single book 629 00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:51,800 that he's had. I mean, that that's there's a 630 00:39:51,808 --> 00:39:54,900 lot to be said about. I mean, either the Revit just 631 00:39:55,700 --> 00:40:00,800 praxeology as an instrument of Understanding Human Society 632 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,000 Beyond narrowly economic at the. And I didn't know if I could 633 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,500 take one of the, the untapped gold mines out there for 634 00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:11,900 intellectual output is greater investment in non-economic. 635 00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:14,700 Praxeological sort of analysis, a fact that they've given us. 636 00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:17,500 There's so much, you could go down there for, but I think the 637 00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:21,100 best book that we have in the midst of bookstore is Is Not 638 00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:24,200 Human Action. It's nothing about Ron Paul or 639 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,200 problem, Woods. I think it's the biography of 640 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,200 the was on me because Because his life, but the way that he 641 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:36,000 lived his life. I think makes his ideas all the 642 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,200 more incredible. And so that needs to take all 643 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:44,600 the more seriously, it's against the ability of standing up for 644 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,500 history. No matter the cost for the 645 00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:55,000 stakes that as much as to any theoretical concept is something 646 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,400 inspiring. Most important thing you learned 647 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:58,800 from me. Rien rothbard. 648 00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:04,400 Questioning the historical narrative. 649 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,600 I think that we're getting brought economists. 650 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,500 Brian, political theater, theorists. 651 00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:15,200 And honestly, there's a fact that you have to take that back 652 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,800 to the historical narrative. Hardness is very important. 653 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,000 His revisionist work in history for something I learned from 654 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,500 him, but even perhaps greater than that, was the recognition 655 00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:30,300 that if you truly hate the state that is not enough, you have to 656 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:36,900 And the state and the makeup of the state and hit the fact that 657 00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:41,400 you had someone of his intellectual achievement in 658 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,000 Kingsville, T, that was not content with simply being an 659 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,900 ivory Tower intellectual rather seriously, engage with the 660 00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:53,300 question of strategy of ideological Warfare. 661 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,800 That is something it is precisely that that gets to them 662 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:04,200 attacked by Scholars and cushy tenured jobs that aren't 663 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,900 particularly worried about their livelihood, but I think that as 664 00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:14,800 much as anything else sets them apart and something that 665 00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:19,900 obviously has been a tremendous influence on me, and I didn't 666 00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:22,500 have two steps work. Most important thing you learned 667 00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:35,300 from Hans, Hermann, Hoppa. He has the power of controversy. 668 00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:40,000 I think that there's a lot of great insights that help us 669 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,800 brought to the table, but I think it is incredible that he 670 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:52,100 is able to drive his enemies. So crazy, in spite of the fact 671 00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:53,600 that he's not on social media, right? 672 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,500 Like, you know that there's this is Mystique of him. 673 00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:58,400 Because you need, he's living a five-star hotel. 674 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,300 And, you know, he only drinks us from from the clouds once a year 675 00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:06,900 PFF sand and may occasionally stir event, either the fact that 676 00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:12,900 that he's able just to write a, you know, a deep intellectual 677 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,000 piece. But just with these little, 678 00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:22,300 these little Jabs that will just drive it when he's crazy II, 679 00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:25,500 think that that's one of the reasons why he has it. 680 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,900 Kind of resurrected interest in spite of it. 681 00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:35,000 There's no reason accomplished be as the the mean that he is, 682 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,600 right? You like and he is precisely 683 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,600 because of his ability to for conjurer's, I love others. 684 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:45,900 Just as I think the fascinating intellectual phenomenon as it's 685 00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:49,300 for everything else. That's what that is unloved. 686 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,000 One of my favorite things that Hapa gives us at the end of 687 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,400 democracy. The God That Failed is his 688 00:43:55,700 --> 00:44:00,200 Thinking behind, why old-school, conservative small government 689 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,800 classical Liberal, Liberal, ideas have not succeeded. 690 00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:08,200 So here are a few quotes from the final chapters of The God, 691 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,000 That Failed liberalism Central and monumentous error lies in 692 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,600 its theory of government. It is impossible to derive to 693 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,400 derive, a justification for government from explicit 694 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,700 contracts between private property owners. 695 00:44:21,100 --> 00:44:23,900 Once the premise of government is accepted liberals. 696 00:44:23,900 --> 00:44:27,000 Classical Liberals are left. Without argument, when socialist 697 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,900 try to pursue this premise without moral argument, at his 698 00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:34,200 disposal, a liberal is left only with the tool of cost-benefit 699 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,400 analysis. But any such analysis must 700 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,800 involve interpersonal. Comparisons of utility, such as 701 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,500 comparisons, such comparisons are impossible. 702 00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:45,800 Scientifically impermissible. Liberals will have to recognize 703 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,700 no government can be contractually justified. 704 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,900 I just love that from Lou. Where he says that we sort of 705 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,300 give them too much wiggle room. Socialists. 706 00:44:56,300 --> 00:45:00,400 So that's why I'm not surprised when I see Lindsey Graham next 707 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,500 to Benjamin Netanyahu holding a sign that says more for Israel. 708 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,300 Oh, why not more? Why not help people what's wrong 709 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:08,400 with the government doing anything to help a group. 710 00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:11,900 If you buy into government, you of course would believe such 711 00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:16,900 nonsense like that. Well, finally, I want to ask you 712 00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:19,600 what you think Libertarians can learn from the successful 713 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,700 campaigns of Ron DeSantis, Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor 714 00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:58,900 green. Variation of the unit party. 715 00:45:58,900 --> 00:46:05,000 Consensus of what was the sexual part of the form looks like and 716 00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:09,200 the degree to which point I'm in the past. 717 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:14,800 Is that Trump, in many ways, is the anti Reagan both like Reagan 718 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,600 and Trump, both had great campaign rhetoric. 719 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:22,800 Both Reagan and Trump had at best imperfect record in the 720 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,700 presidency. The Differences though. 721 00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:28,200 Is that Reagan convinced conservative to trust the 722 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,400 institutions that hated conservative America. 723 00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:33,700 Whereas Trump has awakened conservative America to the 724 00:46:33,700 --> 00:46:35,300 degree to, which these institutions hate them. 725 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,600 And that is something that if you're a Libertarian and don't 726 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,300 don't recognize the value at play when you have 50 plus 727 00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:46,400 million Republicans, that know that the Joe Biden 728 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,400 ministrations, illegitimate. I mean, this is, this is the 729 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:54,200 best opportunity I've ever had. And I didn't really understand 730 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,100 the lessons when Adam You think they're, we understand the 731 00:46:56,107 --> 00:46:58,600 degree to, which federal power, depends upon perception of 732 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,500 legitimate basis. In terms of on DeSantis, his 733 00:47:02,500 --> 00:47:06,300 success, his successful campaign was an illustration of the power 734 00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:08,900 of trump as a political force, but I think the success, his 735 00:47:08,900 --> 00:47:13,600 governorship goes to the degree to which some Republicans are 736 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:20,600 waking up to the nature of the cathedral, you know, as it has 737 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,000 been popularized of light because ultimately, you know, 738 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,200 his, Reason why he has to be the leading figure of the Republican 739 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,100 Party coach. Trump today, is him standing up 740 00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:32,900 to the public policy experts and falchi sending up in the 741 00:47:32,908 --> 00:47:36,500 corporate, press setting up to universities, which it has been 742 00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:38,500 one of the strengths of this legislative session. 743 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,900 In fact, you're really dealing with the serious power 744 00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:44,400 structures. Rather than the thought of 745 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,500 ceremonial democracy at the federal level. 746 00:47:47,100 --> 00:47:48,400 And the case of market failure, green. 747 00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:52,600 I think it is degree to the degree to, which the Trump model 748 00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:57,200 scales again, microfiber. Libertarian, I don't think she 749 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,600 wants to legalize recreational cocaine tomorrow, but she 750 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,000 questions the narrative in important ways. 751 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,400 She's attacked warmonger. She attacked a neocon. 752 00:48:08,100 --> 00:48:11,500 She has a pack of many of those same enemies that Trump has, 753 00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:13,300 which is a minute. He's a Libertarian should have. 754 00:48:13,300 --> 00:48:16,000 If you don't have those enemies, that's time for some 755 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,100 self-reflection. And so, I think the Marjorie 756 00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:21,900 Tyler Greene, and that gate food though. 757 00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:24,800 They are obvious allies for those. 758 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,900 Those who recognize the biggest threat to Liberty, is the 759 00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:37,100 centralized power of the regime properly understood rather, and 760 00:48:37,100 --> 00:48:40,700 that's it, the best help that we have politically within. 761 00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:45,100 The American perspective is kind of a a war. 762 00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:48,600 It is a movement of National Liberation away from that 763 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:57,100 centralized isolated power and I think that stands and In 764 00:48:57,100 --> 00:49:05,300 contrast to the more revolutionary mindset of, you 765 00:49:05,308 --> 00:49:10,500 know, wanting in capistan or, you know, say I think that there 766 00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:14,300 are means to achieve a more radical libertarian Society, but 767 00:49:14,300 --> 00:49:17,900 is going to be exit from the current political regime, rather 768 00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:20,700 than some sort of grand Revolution within the political 769 00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:23,000 regime. Again, I'm all for see. 770 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,100 Setting, I'm offer special economic Sounds. 771 00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:27,900 I'm all for me, returning Honduras and to gulp Gulch, 772 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,800 whatever. But if you're interested in 773 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,600 American politics, in a way of creating, perhaps up libertarian 774 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,900 idea, but something a little bit more free. 775 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,700 There's something to be learned from prompt, DeSantis merger 776 00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:46,500 each other green that gate the whole ranked couldn't couldn't 777 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:50,000 agree more on. It was the day that, you know, 778 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,900 the election was given to Biden that there was this huge, you 779 00:49:53,900 --> 00:49:57,100 know, protest. Outside of the Arizona capitol 780 00:49:57,300 --> 00:50:00,200 and I remember thinking, they all think that the government is 781 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,000 going to be illegitimate. I need to get down there. 782 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,700 So I put on my black and yellow flag because I go I got to stand 783 00:50:06,700 --> 00:50:08,500 out somehow and I went down there. 784 00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:12,900 I could not get people to stop talking to me about about the 785 00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:17,200 black and yellow flag. People asked me for my podcast 786 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,800 where as you know, the average podcaster trying to compete in 787 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,400 this field as like, you know, really trying to push themselves 788 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:23,500 out there. People who like. 789 00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:26,500 Oh, please write it down. I want to make sure can I find 790 00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:29,100 it on alternative sites? Because you know YouTube is 791 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,300 Twitter ban Trump and that is going to ban Trump and this is 792 00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:35,600 ridiculous. So yeah, I think you're so right 793 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:40,800 on with, you know, that being very unique territory for us to 794 00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:44,700 really appreciate and make the most of any final thoughts on 795 00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:47,300 Paleo libertarianism while we close out. 796 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:54,100 I'ma get the beauty of it. I simply and building off the 797 00:50:54,100 --> 00:50:58,000 shoulders of far greater men. And you know, I it's been 798 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,800 exciting to see people like yourself interested and 799 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,800 pursuing, you know, I think it's really a great heat. 800 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,200 Well of serious libertarian thought and you know, I think it 801 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:18,200 is a time a and idea that once again kind of come and and at 802 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:23,400 the very least, I think, I think that it is healthy to have a 803 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,400 Libertarian movement. We're all not sharing the same 804 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,900 bumper sticker slogan. And so again, it's this is going 805 00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:33,100 to be a fun period of time and I look forward to the publishing 806 00:51:33,100 --> 00:51:36,800 more triple law and and providing some original content 807 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,000 about this current age. Thank you everyone for watching 808 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,700 Keith Knight. Don't tread on anyone in the 809 00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:43,700 libertarian Institute. Mr. Bishop. 810 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,900 Thank you so much for your time. Take care.