For those looking for security, be forewarned that, there's
nothing more insecure than a political promise.
Welcome to Keith's night. Don't tread on anyone today.
We have Jeremy Kaufman. The CEO of Library.
He is also the founder of top scorer.
Mr. Kaufman. Thank you so much for your time.
I am thrilled to be here with you today.
Keith. What is library?
Library is the future of digital content and how we shared and
how we publish It so it gets it does tend to get a little bit
nerdy a little bit fast. So I don't know how much we want
to do that. It we Library does to publishing
what Bitcoin did to money. We're trying to create systems
that allow YouTube like experiences, but without that
single point of control without there, being one company that
that owns the network, which is, of course, very relevant, with,
with current event. So that's what library does.
Is it technology. I will also say, well, first of
People are hearing about this for the first time.
They should go and switch. Right?
Like, stop watching this video on YouTube and go and watch it
on Odyssey. Oh, dys e.com, which is the best
way to use Library the library sort of like Bitcoin Odyssey.
Sort of like coinbase that maybe that's debatable that coinbase
is the best way to get Bitcoin, but obviously is a really easy.
It's the easiest way. It's a YouTube alternative.
It's a YouTube successor. It's a better YouTube.
And you don't need to know all the nerdy stuff.
You can just type in that domain.
Main pop on this video over there and and just be free and
be safe from some of the things that you might run into in other
places, but if we want to get into the crazy tech and and how
all of it works and Library, I'm happy to get into it, but I do
like to say up front and make it really clear for people who
might not care about all that. You can just go to Odyssey.com
and have a better experience today and not need to understand
all the complicated stuff. Now, there was already a website
that allows us to watch videos YouTube.
Come, why did you create Odyssey and Library if we already have
YouTube? So because yeah, you know, it
wasn't it didn't actually take recent events for for YouTube to
kind of stink, you know, YouTube takes a huge cut of the money
that's being are about fifty percent of every dollar to move
videos from place, a to place B. And when you build on YouTube,
you are building someone else's business.
You are giving them the keys to your business.
We're seeing in recent times. Why?
That's such a concern, not just a business actually, so it's not
just, it's not always a business.
It's a, it's a relationship. It's everything, right?
It's, it's the content that you make at your art.
And you're saying that, like, you're giving this, this other
company control over all of it. All right, and I think that
that's dangerous and a bad idea for some of the reasons that,
you know, we're seeing today. So that the fundamental idea is
to create a more open Freer, Fair Way of publishing and
Changing content via a blockchain, basic knowledge.
Okay. Now, the good thing about
YouTube is, they are constantly making sure that bad ideas are
not spreading like wildfire. Protecting me from that ideas.
Just as I would want a restaurant to protect me from
poisonous food. Why should we Embrace sort of a
free speech Wild West platform instead of a nice structured?
YouTube intelligence agency collaboration that keeps our
mind safe. Yeah.
Well I I'm not going to deny that if you want to use library
in a wild west kind of way that that's possible, but I'd
actually say that our intent is not to be edgy or to be putting
provocative things in people's faces are.
Our goal is to give people choices to let people make
choices for themselves about what they want to watch.
Like the because, you know, you can you might, I think it's
totally fine to agree that some of the content that's being
taken down is not the kind of thing that you want to see.
It's not the kind of thing you want.
Be looking at like that's that's an opinion people can act where
we should go get concerned. Is that a small number of people
that we don't trust in any other circumstance, right?
Know if it's anything other than deleting accounts?
No one trusts Mark Zuckerberg, right?
We all does. He's the guy who called us, you
know, dumb fucks behind behind closed doors, right?
And like regularly acts in a way that is extraordinarily evil.
And then, we're like, please save us.
It's like, it's a terrible idea to be asked.
To give these people more power. That's not me saying that people
shouldn't, you know, because I believe people should have
filtered experiences should have experiences that aren't putting
content in their faces that they don't want to see.
So our goal is to give people choice.
It's not enable, you know Edge Lord type behavior and towards
might use it in a way that said, flirty.
But Edge, Lords can send Edge, lordy emails, right?
Like, you know, we don't think of email as a provocative
technology, because I'll you Can't call someone else up and
delete email, right? Like, that's it's normal, that,
that you can't call someone up, right?
Like, try giving them. This kind of control is the
weird thing and we're saying that that's a bad idea.
And let's move back to the people having more control.
Now, let's say that I look at the average person that goes
through 12 years of, you know, kindergarten through high
school. And it seems like for a lot of
time and a lot of money after University the Opportunity cost
seems like, they don't get a great amount of bang for their
buck. And I'm speaking for myself.
I love school and I love my friends.
But at what cost? I mean, that's a lot of freaking
time. Am I able to pursue an education
on library? Or is it just Edge Lords and Cat
videos? Oh, no, that's so.
And you can find lots of educational content.
There's even a lab category on Odyssey.
And that's another thing that Odyssey lets us do, is it lets
us do some more categorization compared to the decentralized?
Sign of Library. So you can find, you can find
all kinds of things. It's not as I'm saying, it's not
just that it's not just the content that might be getting in
trouble on YouTube. I would say that's, you know, a
fraction of a percent of the content that you're going to
find on Library. You find lots of educational
stuff, cooking videos like and we're talking about 10 million,
go approaching 10 million videos.
It's there's all kinds of stuff available on the platform and in
terms of Education, you know, I would I would say You know, I so
I went to high school in the late 90s early 2000s and I was
able to be on the internet, basically at that age and a
little bit younger. I mean, I guess actually even
like mid 90s were talking about and it was so educational for
me, right? I share a love of education but
a lot of that education was coming on the internet, finding
weird. Interesting, people doing
things. And I think that a lot of that
stuff which was like, you know, I am Excited.
Plenty of which I didn't disagree.
Do not end up agreeing with over time, but it's like that that
era of the internet is like is really going away.
Like these social media sites. Have been come become very
corporate with the same. Kind of rules that you would see
for like, your cable television standards as to, you know, what
you could do. You have to be enforcing The
Establishment, the mainstream opinion, and I think, and a
healthy Society, there's voices that are always being critical
and asking questions of those kinds of things.
Now, the Odyssey is Obviously terrific for videos, I love
scrolling through there. Is it just videos or am I able
to upload ebooks and PDFs as well to increase the amount of
educational access? I have?
So Odyssey is currently only just videos.
Although I do believe if you upload through another
interface, they will show up in your channel page specifically
still for other people. We're considering how we want to
handle this on how to see part of the reason we created Odyssey
for anyone. I've anyone who has been around
longer, a winner of everything was just called Library.
Darcy for a couple of reasons. One was, we think we actually
regret calling Library TV Library, dot TV.
We don't regret making it, but we think we have.
It was a mistake to put the library name on something.
That is not really decentralized.
It's interacting with a decentralized network bits.
Like if you go to bitcoin.com yo, you are on bitcoin.com.
You're not directly interact with the Bitcoin Network, right?
And so we can't we name it Odyssey both to begin moving
away from having the the web one's name that.
We also wanted to just more to make a simpler experience.
And really directly say this is a better YouTube.
And so we some of the areas that were a little bit less YouTube
like we tweak them or stripped of them.
We may end up putting some of that stuff back in time.
That's kind of stuff. We're still figuring out how
people react to the to the product but the reception of
Odyssey has been super positive. We're seeing like a million
people, a day use it. It's been and just I look at
Stats all the time. People are using it for longer.
They're coming back more frequently, you know, then, you
know when it was Library, not TV.
It's so funny because even when I find a good video on YouTube,
I'm like doing everything I can to find the Timothy McVeigh
discussion that took place at a bar on a security camera and all
the related videos to the Oklahoma City.
Research were James Corden. Carpool.
Karaoke Conan O'Brien reads, book out loud.
Yeah. Like I finally find something
and the related videos are just nothing which 10 years ago.
I would have been on YouTube all night hitting related.
Really. It's so fixed.
It's so corporate. That's why I can't thank you
enough for creating stuff. This is what they want to
amplify. Here.
You go to YouTube. If you want to watch your clip
of Gordon Ramsay or Stephen Colbert.
It's not a place to find independent voices or
independent thought anymore. The Brie Larson effect was just
amazing. I don't know if you remember
that, but it was just like Brie Larson gets a chance.
Like overnight hundreds of thousand subscribers and
millions of views. Like it's so fake that to watch.
It's like, you can't even enjoy it anymore.
I didn't know where I was going with that.
The Brie Larson thing has been pissing me off for him.
Okay, there's something in economics called a network
effect. This is the phenomenon by which
the value or utility a user derives from a good or service
depends on the number of users of compatible products.
In other words, so as much as I like this idea.
All my friends are on YouTube. All my friends are on Twitter.
I'm just going to stay with big Tech if I have that mindset and
that sort of network effect incentive.
How can I easily merge over to Odyssey and Library yet?
So I absolutely agree with everything that you just said.
It's a really hard problem to bootstrap a two-sided market
place, especially when you're talking about an incumbent,
having them, the massive Network effect that they already have.
So I would actually suggest that.
You've made it through our most critical period in terms of
needing to get over that. Obviously, we are not done.
We've got a much larger Hill to climb still but the the content
that's available is already. It's really substantial.
I mean, go to if anyone who loads to, I see.com homepage
scroll through it, check out the categories.
I mean, it's it's a ton of stuff.
So it's already compelling to just go there and find stuff to
watch. And in terms of what you're
going to see presented. It's not going to be Be the same
stuff that you'd see on the YouTube homepage.
So we already have lots of people using it.
We already have that two-sided. Put a Marketplace going.
We already have that economy going now.
Something that we did do to help bootstrap at that.
I think helped a lot is we provided a service where content
creators could effortless effortlessly sink their Channel
over on an ongoing basis. So you click one thing, the
content continues to come over. We still provide that Nervous.
So if you sign up at Odyssey.com, you can copy your
channel over and will continue to copy your channel over on an
ongoing basis. But that was, I will say that
was key to bootstrapping because basically we went to one half of
the marketplace and said, here's a heads, you win, Tails.
Nothing happen scenario, right, which is a great debt, right
heads. I win Tails, nothing happens.
I'll take that bet all day. And so we went to them and said,
look, you started first thing. It's no effort.
Maybe it works out, you get a bunch of extra, you get some
extra money. You get some extra lines.
It doesn't work out what it Cost you all you did was press the
button, right? And so, we were able to persuade
a lot of creators to put in their content at a time when our
audience was not that large and we were also able to leverage a
people excited about blockchain. So there was like a story sort
of in the, in The Ether, you know, out there that this could
be, this could be something new and big and too.
And so we're able to do it and then we continue to deliver.
We continue to build the product.
We intended to build relationships with creators, and
show them that this is working. And then we went out to users
and said, hey come, come on. Check this out, you know, less
ads, no ads earn cryptocurrency. And so, and then, you know, you
sort of get. So you start with this small
kernel and it grows bigger and bigger and bigger.
And now I think we really are big enough that, like, it's not
not that we're letting up in any way but it's rolling downhill,
right? It's not you.
When you're starting, you've got to like push and then it gets
stuck and you gotta push it again and like, you know, now
where I do really feel like we've got some momentum.
It was so cool. Just scrolling through Eric
July's feed because I'm like, Like, I wonder how many videos
he's posted, and all of his videos were there.
I could use the search function and you even got the search
function for a specific Channel working, which saves so much
time. It's so it's so efficient.
One of the things that was very, surprising is right after it's
just big that the sitting president was the platform.
Don his main go to Twitter. So a lot of people went over to
parlor and in a very short amount of time, Amazon kicked
Parlor off its servers and now they're searching for someplace
else. Probably a good thing in the
long run. So they're not walking on
eggshells. Trying to please Bezos is
anything like that a Potential Threat to library.
So to the library network? No 22 Odyssey.com, potentially,
but certainly not permanently, and we're trying to make sure.
That even that potential is low, 20.
I mean, what happened with? I just want to be honest like
whatever. The Parlor is pretty, it's
basically unprecedented, right? And so, you know, we're we are
looking at providers and then being like, well wait are, you
know, they should. So we're taking calls with them
because the the web version I want to be cleared by the web
version is using sort of traditional internet type
architecture. Its then interacting, with the
library Network, on your behalf. Again, just like coinbase or
these other cryptocurrencies site to do.
So that underlying Network. We feel is safe and resilient.
And so if you use the desktop, Like the desktop client which is
directly interacting in the peer-to-peer Network.
We think the desktop client is very, very resilient.
So we don't think that will ever go down.
Could the websites good em, we're trying to make sure that's
never possible. If it happened.
Certainly, we're not going to be down for a week like parlor.
I think, I think that's that scenario is completely off the
table, but like if, you know, so we use cloud fair, for example,
for to prevent DDOS attacks, right?
Which is something that that we can face it cloudflare drops us
without calling us. We'd be down for a couple.
Laughs, you have to eat updated. It would be up again.
It's that. But that so that's sort of my
read of it. I think it's very unlikely.
I think we're prepared. I think we've been in front of
this and the whole idea of the library Network itself, right?
Not the web access versions, but the library knowing is you, this
can't happen. Can't happen.
Again. That's the promise of it is.
We're making it impossible. So I think that that layer is
very, very safe and very secure and that and there's a lot of
power that comes from that as well.
The fact that That layer is that.
Now, one of the criticisms that would have come up, you know,
many years ago when it's like, oh, start your own social media
company. That's so ridiculous.
Everyone's already on one with this YouTube sink.
I mean, it allows people to start, you know, with 100 home
runs on the scoreboard for him. It's so cool.
What are some other main objections?
You have to the idea that it's all over.
I'm totally black. Pilled.
We're Rude, big Tech has taken over.
Yeah. It's just, it's just clearly not
over. I mean, I'm a complete Optimist
in this regard. Like I actually think we're in a
better place and in a lot of ways than we ever have been with
the developments of cryptocurrency.
Like, the recent events were perhaps unprecedented in some
ways, but the government working with corporations to shut down
activity that is legal, but that it doesn't like is well, is like
decades, our history of that. You could Point.
Most recently two Operation choke point, which is where the
Department of Justice worked with the payment providers to
basically deny access to everything from like Firearms to
marijuana paraphernalia to probably 20 different sectors of
business and they were able to D bank and and take all these
people offline. Well, what happened to those
businesses, a lot of got into Bitcoin, a lot of them are
wealthier than they ever. Would have been if this DNA
hadn't gone after. I'm sure some of them were
destroyed. I'm not trying to say it was
like a holy good activity, but like they're not there.
Are not actually winning. We're building new systems from
the ground up that are going to make it so that the could the
control that they've had in the past is like absolutely is
actually not possible. So I'm a complete Optimist.
I think they are doing things that are only accelerating
trends that were already there. And I think I think that we're
going to win. So, you know, it's I don't I
don't know how someone can look at some of this this technology
that's coming along and like and be a pessimist about it.
Can you please explain how LBC Works?
Sure that's just the so that's the token.
So basically library has a blockchain.
It's a public blockchains. Aleurone blockchain you.
There's about a billion of the token which is called LBC
Library credits and you use a small amount of the token.
We're talking about a fraction of one.
So fractions of a penny to make a new publish, you use a little
bit of the token to make a handle and this is basically
making those entries in that block chain.
That says, you know, that you exist and Other things that go
in the blockchain and things like information about your
content, the title, the length, these kinds of things.
So there's a little bit of the token required for that token
can also be used to tip people to pay people.
There's a staking aspect of the token, that's optional that's
related to Discovery. And we're building that into a
trust system, but that's, that's the way that works.
I will say also, I always want to say anytime that because I'm
a nerd, I'm a nerd, I can go deep on the nerd stuff.
It's easy to get me to talk nerdy.
Well, a always you can always just use a si.com and you don't
need to understand any of it, right?
It will just work. Moat a lot of people.
Use Odyssey and are interacting with the blockchain and don't
even know they say we tell you hey, did you know, you're using
blockchain token or say what, you know, so and because that's
how good technology works like. I don't care about Bitcoin for
the sake of Bitcoin. I care that I have cash on my
phone, that when I say, I'm paying for a Cuban restaurant.
It's not going to the transactions.
Are going to get reversed as if you say by the, if you Cuba
Cuban and any PayPal description.
It gets reviewed by a human being.
If you didn't know that, it's a perfect.
Yeah. To prevent issues with it by go
Cuba. Well, that's good.
It's important to blockade civilians for what dictators do.
And I'm just upset. We're not bombing them and
blaming another country for the bombings as far as how long does
it take to sink my YouTube channel to a brand-new.
Odyssey, It generally happens very fast and once your channel
is synced, they'll go up quickly afterwards right now.
We're a little backed up on new channel.
So it wouldn't surprise if you signed up like literally today,
wouldn't surprise me if it took a couple of days because we're
backed up, I expect that to you will clear and in the future
it'll be back to sinking, you know, very quickly right now.
I would say, if you signed up it might take you three to seven
days but generally at but also like, once you're through that
three to seven days, they'll come in quickly.
Seven days at the most. Okay, the how about if I have
any videos on unlisted or private on YouTube?
Because the second I open these, they get reported.
So if I have a video on private or unlisted, would that get sync
with that, think they will not sink rap videos?
Okay. All right.
Well, thank you for that clarification.
So let's say, I am so, so motivated and appreciative that
people like you did this to really create an alternative to
YouTube. What is the best way for us to
support the library? Odyssey team?
So, if you basically by contributing in, in some way,
and that can be anything from one of the spreading, the word,
telling other people like that, that almost all of our growth is
word-of-mouth. We're not running advertising
him. It's a, we got we got to a
million daily. Users not not paying for any of
them. It's from people saying, hey,
you got to go check this out. So if you are frustrated by
what's going on, or you just like what we're doing, spread
the word tell people about it. That's the number one way we're
going to win is if that continues to happen if you can
contribute beyond that, that's awesome.
Like it's whether that's anything from, like, making
memes or making videos yourself, that introduce people.
If you're a computer programmer, all of our code is open source,
and so you can get involved there.
But like this. This is a community project and
we have 4,000 people in a chat room.
You can go to chat dot Library, dot org and join our chat room
and there's a bunch of people hanging out with there's there's
a movement sort of here that we're people coalescing around
the idea that what's going on is not okay, if we work together,
you know, we can make sure that it's impossible that it did it
ever happen. Again.
That's so cool. How long does it take to create
a library account? Pretty quick.
The hardest part is going to be is the way to let me be.
I should be specific. So if we're talking about like
the web accounts that's very fast created account hace.com.
We're talking about the handle. On the blockchain that does take
a couple of minutes to create your first one because you're
gonna have to get some of the cryptocurrency and then the
transaction has to get like, accepted by the network, but
either way, it's fairly quick. I just want a number because
when I hear people tell me, oh, I shouldn't have to spend time
doing this now. Excuse me.
I need to go spend weeks lobbying a congressman while he
pretends to listen to me. Yes, so I need, I need a number
that I could throw in their face and say I got this from the CEO.
I'd say you got no excuse. So what most people should use,
I see that cop. You're going to have an account
Creo, NADA si.com in a minute, right?
You're going to, you can have your YouTube channel sinking in
under 2 minutes. For sure.
You can have it sitting in under 2 minutes.
It's extremely quick. To get that set up.
Terrific. Mr. Kaufman.
Is there anything that I didn't ask you about that?
You would want anyone to know if they're still on the Twitter and
YouTube's and they have so many eggs in those baskets that are
still for some reason. Hesitant about coming over.
Yeah. Well I our request actually I is
you don't have to go cold turkey if you're ready to go.
Cold turkey. Great.
But like you can you can, you know, start to have it.
That's my suggestion is To start the Habit.
So maybe it's just this channel, right?
So maybe and when you want to watch Keith, you make sure
you're always watching, Keith odd, Odyssey and train yourself.
Hey, it's a Keith video. Oh wait, I got to go over to her
house. Right?
And so like begin developing The Habit, get more comfortable with
the interface, get more comfortable with it.
And like, you'll find yourself spending more time.
And then also, and then similarly, if there's content
that you can't watch in the new place.
You got to tell them and encourage them to come over.
But don't, you know, No, I don't we can't win if it requires
everyone to like make big sacrifices like we have to win
in a way that's like reasonable and not too hard year for the
normal person. If it requires this ideological
acceptance that YouTube is bad to get people to use our stuff
like that's kind of fundamental limiting.
Where is if we're able to create something that's genuinely
better than what came before, everyone's interested in that,
and you don't even have to agree that there's a problem with
YouTube to be interested. Excellent.
All right, and just a final thing for the audience.
Have you ever read a book that just blow your mind so much?
You wanted to recommend it to everyone or one or two books?
Yeah, I'll give my my currently most commonly recommended
nonfiction. And fiction books, not saying
these are like my favorite books of all time, but they're like
recent enough, red. And then I have some people, a
lot of them. So one is, what is the name of
it? Robin Robin Hansen's book about,
like What is the title of that? It's basically it's rather
Hansen's most recent book. It's about basically it's just
written with Kevin Kevin similar and it's about sort of like the
hidden motives and elephant the brain, the hidden motives of
everyday life sort of give some interesting and provocative
arguments as to why people do things that they do that aren't
really for the sort of superficial reasons that we
pretend are why people do then. I think there's some really
interesting ideas in that book and then as a thick as a sort of
fiction, too. I really liked.
I read the Terra incognita series recently, too.
Like the lightning is the name of the first book.
I thought it was, I thought was really interesting and it has a
concept that I think is relevant in it, which is sort of when we
force certain social lies. What are the consequences of
that for for society? And I think it's a really,
really great book series. Also, I really like unreliable
narrators. And it's an unreliable narrator
book as well. So oh terrific.
Well, to help us fight against the The alleged Noble lies of
the politicians and big Tech, please check out Library dot TV
along with Odyssey.com. Mr. Kaufman.
Thank you so much for your time. Thanks is great to be on.