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Welcome to the Libertarian 
Institute. 

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My name is Keith Knight. 
I am Managing Editor at the 

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Libertarian Institute. 
I'm joined by the Director, 

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Scott Horton, author of Enough 
Already, Time to End the War on 

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Terrorism and Hotter Than the 
Sun Time to Abolish Nuclear 

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Weapons. 
Here we are going to 1st mention

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the fact that we do have a 
fundraiser going on. 

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Now, I know it's tempting you 
want to send more money to the 

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band of rights in Ukraine and 
the IDF, but if you would rather

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make a tax deductible donation 
to the Libertarian Institute 

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championing the principles of 
liberty, check out the link in 

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the description below. 
Scott Horton When people go to 

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the Libertarian Institute, 
there's so much it's so 

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overwhelming. 
Where should they start? 

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On libertarianinstitute.org. 
All right. 

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Well, it depends exactly what 
you're into. 

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We got a ton of podcasts. 
We got a bunch of great opinion 

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writers. 
And then of course we have Kyle 

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Anzalone, our great news editor,
who's just on top of everything 

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going on in the world all day 
every day, right there in the 

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right hand margin there for you.
But yeah, we've got just the 

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best team. 
And I think maybe one way I 

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think of it is there's sort of 
these two generations. 

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I think Laurie's my same age. 
But then there's this other kind

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of group of guys that are older.
Not that they're all exactly the

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same age or anything, but 
there's Sheldon Richmond, our my

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founding partner in the thing 
and our executive editor. 

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And then there's the great James
Bovard. 

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And I'm not calling you old, 
Jim. 

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I'm just saying older than me a 
little. 

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You know, the great Jim Bovard 
and then Ted Carpenter and Ted 

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Snyder. 
I think Price Snyder's probably 

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my same age, too. 
I don't know. 

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And I did mention Laurie 
Calhoun, one of our senior 

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editors there. 
She's my same age, but we have, 

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you know, Richmond and Bovard 
and Carpenter especially are 

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sort of our real senior fellows.
And then we got this whole giant

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group of you 27 year olds who 
for some reason are all 27 at 

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the same time. 
And I used to be 27. 

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It's a great year and if I could
go back in time 20 years then I 

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would be 27 with you boys. 
But unfortunately in the future 

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now and that's too late for 
that. 

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But so that the the 27 year olds
are you of course our managing 

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editor and then our editor, 
editor Hunter Durensis, our news

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editor Kyle Angela, our 
assistant news editor Connor 

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Freeman and then? 
Patrick McFarlane is actually 

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like 31 or something, but 
whatever. 

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He counts the same crew with you
guys. 

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Oh, and Will Porter of course is
also 27. 

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And then of course Tommy 
Salmons. 

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I don't know, he's my age, mid 
40s or something, but he's at 

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one of our great podcasters and 
a great guy as well. 

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But. 
Obviously there's some Gray 

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areas there, but basically I 
think I like we got these kind 

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of old stir libertarian leaders.
I mean, Jim Bovard is one of the

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most accomplished and important 
libertarians who's ever lived or

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ever will. 
He's published 15 books. 

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He's written for all the most 
important newspapers in America,

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writes for the New York Post. 
Now he's on the Board of 

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Contributors at the USA TODAY. 
In the past, it's written for 

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the Wall Street Journal and and 
Christian Science Monitor and 

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has sold, I mean, 10s of 
thousands of books. 10s and 10s 

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and 10s, maybe hundreds of 
thousands of books over the 

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years. 
He's really and and you know 

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what He is too. 
There's there's a special breed 

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of American journalist, the 
opinion journalist, who does 

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real research, real breaking 
news, sometimes sources, but 

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also digging through documents, 
investigative research, opinion 

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pieces. 
So in that way he can let him 

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have it too. 
And nobody does better than Jim 

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at that. 
Either. 

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You know what I mean. 
But so to me, Keith, the bottom 

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line here is just what an 
institute to brag about, Man, we

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are doing so great. 
And I don't mean to leave 

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everybody off. 
If people go to 

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libertarianinstitute.org/about, 
there's a whole group of 

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everybody there. 
We're going to talk about our 

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authors and these kinds of 
things. 

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Of whom we have. 
So many are great writers, not 

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all of whom are one kind of 
fellow or another. 

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Some of them are, some of them 
aren't. 

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And I can't keep track of it all
but. 

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But really, like men, I'm proud.
I think we got the best team 

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going in libertarianism right 
now at the Libertarian 

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Institute. 
And I said no compunction 

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whatsoever, Certainly check it 
all out at 

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libertarianinstitute.org. 
So, Scott, I guess today is the 

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60th anniversary of the Kennedy 
assassination. 

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When it comes to things we can 
learn from the Kennedy 

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assassination, the Cuban missile
crisis really sticks out in my 

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mind. 
What are the major lessons you 

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think that we can really embrace
from the Cuban Missile Crisis? 

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Wow, that's interesting. 
Well, look, I mean, I think Ivan

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Eland at antiwar.com in the past
has done some great work on 

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this. 
And the bottom line is, it was 

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all Jack Kennedy's fault. 
He had. 

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Well, it's very interesting. 
You know, this is in Daniel 

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Ellsberg's book The Doomsday 
Machine. 

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It was all Daniel Ellsberg's 
fault, and he takes 

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responsibility for it. 
Daniel Ellsberg thought it would

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be smart. 
To have the deputy assistant 

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Secretary of Defense for being a
jerk or whatever exactly. 

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The office was to have him go 
out and give a speech where he 

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said, hey Khrushchev, we know 
how weak you are and we know how

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few nuclear missiles you have 
and we know what we can get away

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with that you cannot stop and 
how. 

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That was a huge mistake because 
it put Khrushchev they thought, 

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I guess. 
That it would make him realize 

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how overmatched he was and that 
he would have to cool out or 

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something. 
I forgot exactly what Ellsberg 

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said. 
His reasoning was there, but 

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what happened was Khrushchev 
panicked. 

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Public choice theory, right? 
His power is on the line. 

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He looks too weak in front of 
the boys. 

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He's going to lose out, and so 
he's got to do something tough. 

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And Kennedy had also put the 
Jupiter missiles in Turkey. 

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Which look at the map is right 
there, Jason. 

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These medium range missiles are 
just a very short flight time 

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from Moscow at that point. 
And so Khrushchev escalated on 

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his side by stationing nuclear 
missiles in Cuba and they were 

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discovered they were already 
operational and they didn't. 

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The Americans didn't know this 
at the time. 

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By the time the Americans 
discovered them, they already 

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had some of the short range 
nukes operational. 

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And the command authority had 
already been passed from Moscow 

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to local commanders on the 
scene. 

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Although I don't think, Keith, 
that the Cubans had authority. 

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I think only Soviet officers on 
the scene had the authority to 

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launch, but they didn't have to 
call home to get permission and 

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the Americans did not know that 
they had operational missiles. 

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So from the point of view of 
Washington, DC, we have a window

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of time here where maybe we want
to do a massive air campaign and

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even send in the Marines and 
we're going to destroy all these

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missiles before they can use 
them. 

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Now, as crazy as it sounds to 
leave a bunch of nukes sitting 

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in Cuba right offshore in 
Florida, it doesn't make any 

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difference compared to having a 
bunch of Soviet missiles come 

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over the North Pole. 
Have a little bit more time, but

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everybody's still dead if 
there's a nuclear war with the 

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Soviet Union and there were 
people, I believe even McNamara 

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said originally at the time he 
was the Secretary of Defense, 

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said that hey, look, it doesn't 
make a difference strategically 

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anyway, so we shouldn't 
overreact. 

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But again, public choice theory,
How do you look? 

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You can't be soft on the 
commies. 

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You're already a Democrat and 
all this stuff, right? 

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Like JFK's Barack Obama. 
Right. 

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He's got to look like a tough 
guy or they're just going to run

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him right out of there. 
Right. 

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So he's got to escalate. 
He's got to be tough. 

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And so he does. 
And he declares A quarantine so 

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he doesn't have to call it a 
blockade. 

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But he sends the Navy out there 
to block Soviet ships and to say

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you are no, you are not going to
let you go to Cuba to deliver 

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more nuclear missiles. 
And there are ships with nuclear

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missiles on their way to Cuba. 
So this becomes a showdown on 

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the high seas and. 
What we know now, and I'm sorry,

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'cause I don't think he wanted 
an answer this long, but he 

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asked me a history question. 
So we know now that we all 

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almost died, our parents all 
almost died. 

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Because what happened was the 
Americans were dropping depth 

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charges on Soviet Subs, and the 
Americans thought that, look, 

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we're only dropping the 
crackerjack depth charges at a 

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medium depth. 
And that means the Soviets know 

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we're not really trying to sink 
them, we're just shaking them up

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a little bit, right? 
But meanwhile, the Soviets 

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below, all they know is somebody
setting off depth charges. 

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They're not getting the subtlety
of the depth of the explosion 

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and the message it's intended to
send here. 

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All they know is somebody's 
trying to kill them and they're 

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freaking out because they're 
already locked in a little tube 

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under the ocean, right? 
Which is already a precarious 

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place to meet so. 
I believe the way it plays out 

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is the 2 military officers on 
board said let's turn the key 

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and fire and add them on. 
They had them and it was a 

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civilian Communist Party 
official who happened to be on 

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board that ship and it was the 
only sub that he that had one. 

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But that sub had one where if it
had been the other Subs in the 

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area, it would have been a 
different call maybe. 

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But in this case, the civilian 
Communist Party official said, 

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we're not firing the first shot 
in a nuclear war. 

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You and you and me, we're going 
to die here today before we pull

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the trigger on 1st nuke until we
already know that nukes are 

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going off. 
No man. 

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And they said, all right, you're
right. 

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And cooler heads prevailed. 
That could have been World War 3

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thermonuclear full scale general
nuclear war right there. 

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And even and we, as we know now,
even if the Americans had A and 

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they did have absolute 
overwhelming advantage against 

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Russia, they and and the Soviet 
Union, they would have 

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completely obliterated the 
Soviet Union with thousands of 

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nuclear weapons which would have
caused nuclear winter and the 

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starvation of billions and 
radiation fallout. 

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You know, poisoning all over 
North America anyway. 

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Prevailing winds, Just that jet 
stream blows east. 

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So all that stuff would have 
crossed Siberia and the Bering 

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Strait and would have come right
down into the continental United

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States. 
We'd have been nuking ourselves 

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to death anyway. 
It would have been the absolute 

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catastrophe and and the Russians
would have got some shots off. 

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They had Subs and they had 
Icbms, at least in some measure 

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at that time. 
I forget the real numbers, but 

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they were much lower than people
supposed at the time. 

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But then what happened? 
Kennedy was under severe 

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pressure from the military to 
attack Cuba, and he was 

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legitimately worried that they 
were going to overthrow him. 

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And it was. 
He later allowed the director of

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Seven Days in May to film the 
movie in the White House because

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he's like, yeah, that almost 
happened and I'm worried about 

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that. 
And they told the Soviets in 

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their back channel 
communications, listen, we're 

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worried that the military will 
overthrow the president. 

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If he doesn't go at least this 
far or act at least this tough, 

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etcetera like this, you have to 
understand the position he's in 

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which I think is legitimate and 
obviously raises real questions 

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about what happened a year 
later. 

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OK, he he really was concerned 
they were going to overthrow him

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and but then what he did was he 
sent his brother, his younger 

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brother, the attorney general. 
Totally outside the chain of 

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command to talk to a journalist 
who knew a Russian. 

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And they set up this back 
channel. 

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And somehow, I don't know if 
they truly did or not, but at 

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least ostensibly, they kept this
channel secret from the State 

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Department and the CIA and 
Kennedy, through his brother 

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made a deal with it through the 
back channel with Khrushchev. 

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And then what happened was 
Khrushchev. 

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They answered with a letter. 
They said, OK, I accept your 

228
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,000
offer and it'll be great and 
we'll do this and that. 

229
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,880
I'll get to the details in just 
one moment. 

230
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,000
It's pretty simple. 
But then another second letter 

231
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,040
arrived that had all this 
threatening stuff in it and was 

232
00:12:55,040 --> 00:13:01,520
refusing to, you know, be 
generous in in the negotiation. 

233
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,600
And so they didn't know what to 
do. 

234
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,720
And I don't know whose idea it 
was, but somebody said, look, 

235
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,360
let's just answer the 1st letter
and ignore the second one. 

236
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,920
And so they did. 
And they said, oh great, you 

237
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,600
accept our terms, then we accept
your terms. 

238
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,680
And these are the terms we 
accept. 

239
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:19,200
And good deal, shake hands deal.
And that stuck. 

240
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,320
And they did it. 
And the deal was America swears 

241
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,720
to God and for some reason 
really means it this time. 

242
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,000
Keith, you tell me. 
I don't know the magic trick 

243
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,320
here. 
They really, really mean it. 

244
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,680
We're not going to invade Cuba. 
We haven't since. 

245
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:37,880
They've done some covert action 
over there, some assassination 

246
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,520
attempts and whatever. 
But you know, even that ended 

247
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,120
pretty quickly after that, I 
think. 

248
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,000
And then which may have been 
part of what got him killed as 

249
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,240
part of the lore, you know, at 
least. 

250
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,080
And then also they promised to 
remove the Jupiter missiles from

251
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,000
Turkey, but they kept that 
secret. 

252
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,320
You got to get all your missiles
out of Cuba. 

253
00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,920
And we get to crow about our 
great victory, and we're going 

254
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,440
to pull our missiles out of 
Turkey, but we're going to pull 

255
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:03,880
them out of there in a few 
months. 

256
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,600
And we're not going to say 
anything about it, and neither 

257
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,600
are you. 
And Khrushchev agreed to that. 

258
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,880
And so that was how that ended. 
And so in the history as it's 

259
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,400
told, Kennedy, you know, stared 
down the beast and won. 

260
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,560
And what a great hero and all of
that, when the reality is that, 

261
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:26,480
you know, he's he had gotten 
himself into this mess, gotten 

262
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,720
the world into this mess, and 
then luckily was able to squirm 

263
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,680
his way out of it by by look. 
As Ron Paul said over and over 

264
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:42,000
again, he goes, listen, we 
negotiated with Stalin, with 

265
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,920
Mao, with Khrushchev, and what 
that means is we can negotiate 

266
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,160
with anyone. 
It doesn't mean that anyone is 

267
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,400
always negotiating in good faith
with us that we're supposed to 

268
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,280
be suckers. 
When Ronald Reagan said trust 

269
00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:02,360
but verify, he was being polite.
That means don't trust. 

270
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,160
That's what that means. 
Trust the verify. 

271
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,920
We love you. 
Soviets. 

272
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:09,880
Seriously. 
Show us the missiles you 

273
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,120
dismantled. 
You know what I mean? 

274
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,640
Come on. 
So. 

275
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,040
So, you know, being willing to 
engage in diplomacy doesn't mean

276
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,720
become a sucker and give away 
the store. 

277
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,680
Remember when Trump decided he 
wanted to negotiate with the 

278
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,040
North Koreans and he went over 
to Vietnam to negotiate with 

279
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,320
them. 
And the narrative on TV was? 

280
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,160
Trump is going to give away 
everything. 

281
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,840
Kim is going to walk all over 
him. 

282
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,600
Kim is going to be the most wily
and and experienced and 

283
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,480
sophisticated negotiator in the 
world, and he's just going to 

284
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,960
walk all over Donald Trump, 
who's probably, what, going to 

285
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,040
completely normalize relations 
and probably, like, sell them? 

286
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,800
Nuclear fuel and not require 
them to do a single thing And 

287
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,840
like, come on, man, none of that
was right. 

288
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,560
They were acting like it was 
this absolutely unpardonable, 

289
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:14,240
you know, deadly sin to talk to 
Kim at all, right? 

290
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,840
Like and look what happened. 
Trump brought Bolton with him, 

291
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,400
who let it, who refused to let 
him achieve anything there. 

292
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,040
Much less was going to allow him
to give away the whole store. 

293
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,720
Tell you what, we'll recognize 
you and and give you a billion 

294
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,480
dollars and you don't have to 
give up any of your nukes or 

295
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,000
anything. 
And we're just whatever, Give me

296
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,760
a pat on the head and I'll do 
whatever you say. 

297
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,200
Come on. 
But that was the way that they 

298
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,400
spun it, right? 
And Dick Cheney said we can't 

299
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,720
talk to North Korea at all, 
'cause if you dignify evil, you 

300
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,520
legitimize it. 
Well, guess what? 

301
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,280
That was this guy's father. 
Who had inherited the power from

302
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,760
his father. 
And nobody was challenging their

303
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,440
legitimacy and power in North 
Korea anyway. 

304
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,400
And nobody really cared what the
opinion of the North Americans 

305
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,319
was, whether their power was 
legitimate or not. 

306
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:09,599
Their people called them the 
Great Leader and Dear Leader and

307
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:12,720
whatever this one is. 
Superman, whatever they call 

308
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,400
him, the best one of us is his 
official title, right? 

309
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,400
Like they don't care whether 
Dick Cheney allows Colin Powell 

310
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,440
to talk with the guy or not. 
Give me a break. 

311
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,200
And it's just an excuse not to 
talk, right? 

312
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,240
Look at what's going on today. 
Right now. 

313
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:28,920
We got. 
I don't know if it ever happened

314
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,000
yet. 
Did it happen yet? 

315
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,040
They're trading hostages in 
Israel, Palestine right now. 

316
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,480
And Michael Tracy had a great 
bunch of tweets about this. 

317
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,440
You're supposed to conceive of 
Hamas. 

318
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,120
Like gorillas from the World War
One propaganda poster of the 

319
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:48,520
Huns, Right? 
That these are beasts, They're 

320
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,000
not real men, and they cannot be
negotiated with. 

321
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,240
They only understand one thing 
for us. 

322
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:55,720
Oh, yeah? 
Well, how come you guys have 

323
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,360
been talking on the phone for 
three weeks straight until you 

324
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:01,920
got some hostages changed, then?
Sounds like. 

325
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,680
Yeah, they must be human men 
just like you and me and all 

326
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,440
that stuff about. 
What? 

327
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,440
What aliens they are, What orcs.
They are, what crazy different 

328
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,520
others they are from. 
Everyone else is, of course, a 

329
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:18,760
bunch of nonsense. 
And so then what's the lesson? 

330
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,560
If they can negotiate over 
hostages, they can negotiate 

331
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,520
over anything. 
Get to work. 

332
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,760
Exactly. 
When it comes to other examples 

333
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,240
of restraint, you will 
frequently get like, well, maybe

334
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,760
Barack Obama's like one of these
pansies and he wouldn't go to 

335
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,440
war. 
But you know, tough guys like 

336
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,320
conservatives, you know, like 
Ronald Reagan, a very tough man.

337
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,600
There was an incident in 1983 
Beirut barracks bombings, when 

338
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,960
according to this source here, I
believe there were 241 U.S. 

339
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,760
military personnel killed in 
this. 

340
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,000
What can you tell us about this 
and what happened? 

341
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,480
Did we have to declare war on 
Lebanon after this happened? 

342
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,480
How were we able to get out of 
it without being Neville 

343
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,440
Chamberlain appeasers who just 
want to give the world away? 

344
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,800
Yeah, great question. 
Yes, you're right. 

345
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,200
It was 241 American Marines were
killed. 

346
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,960
Along with I think it was 37 
French soldiers also were 

347
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,720
killed. 
They were killed in their sleep 

348
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,360
by the suicide truck bomb, 
crashed through the front of 

349
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:23,480
their barracks and detonated. 
By, I guess what you could call 

350
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,560
like a proto Hezbollah. 
It wasn't exactly Hezbollah or 

351
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,480
the Amal militia. 
I'm told it was, you know, some 

352
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,880
sort of unnamed group of Shiites
who did it, but along the lines 

353
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,960
of, you know, what became 
Hezbollah a couple of years or 

354
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,160
maybe the next year after that 
84. 

355
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,760
But you know, first of all, this
is important. 

356
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,520
I guess it's not absolute proven
fact, but I think it's a very 

357
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:52,440
credibly claimed fact. 
Viktor Ostrovsky, the former 

358
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,800
Mossad spy, wrote in his book By
Way of Deception, that the 

359
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,240
Israelis had an informant that 
warned them that there was a big

360
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,280
Mercedes truck that was being 
packed full of explosives, and 

361
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,400
that the Israelis immediately 
knew that there were only a 

362
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,040
couple of targets that would 
possibly require that. 

363
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,480
And one of the obvious ones 
would be the American Marine 

364
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,680
barracks out there at forgot if 
it was a hotel or wherever they 

365
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:23,000
had stationed up there. 
And then the decision was made 

366
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,600
to not warn the Americans and to
not tell them. 

367
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,360
And in fact, let me, let me read
you. 

368
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:31,440
I have the quote here, dude, no,
we're not there to protect 

369
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,960
Americans. 
They're a big country. 

370
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,760
That was what he was told. 
Why not to warn the Americans? 

371
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,800
CIA, that's their job, not us. 
To warn them. 

372
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,320
And then after it happened, 
quote hey, they wanted to stick 

373
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,240
their nose into this Lebanon 
thing. 

374
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,560
Let them pay the price. 
Is this from his book? 

375
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,280
By way of deception? 
Right, Which is the slogan of 

376
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,200
Mossad? 
So that's you know how the what 

377
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,840
the Israelis think of us refuse 
to warn us when a truck bomb is 

378
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,120
coming to kill hundreds of our 
guys and give a damn about that.

379
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:09,920
And then? 
And then? 

380
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,320
So what is Reagan's response to 
this? 

381
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,560
Well, so here's the thing about 
it. 

382
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,320
A better story even than what 
Ostrovsky adds here is about our

383
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,360
hero Ron Paul. 
And you can read this Keith in 

384
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,880
his great book A Foreign Policy 
of Freedom, which is collection 

385
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:33,200
of his foreign policy speeches. 
And the speeches go, Mr. Reagan,

386
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,080
don't listen to the Hawks, 
whatever you do. 

387
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,760
Oh by the way, people know Ron 
Paul went to Congress in 97, but

388
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:45,520
he also went in like 77 or 
somewhere around there and and 

389
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,320
stayed in Congress until he ran 
and then lost for Senate. 

390
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:55,960
And I think 84, possibly 88. 
No, no, no, because 88 he ran as

391
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,120
a libertarian, so he was in 84, 
he ran for Senate in Texas and 

392
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:00,800
lost to Phil Graham in the 
primary. 

393
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,640
Phil Graham. 
But anyway, before that Ron had 

394
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,480
been in the Senate. 
Then Doctor Paul had been in 

395
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:12,760
the, pardon me, in the House 
before and so anyway, he gives a

396
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,520
speech and he says, Mr. Reagan, 
don't listen to the Hawks. 

397
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,280
Do not put our guys in Lebanon. 
You do not want to intervene in 

398
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,240
this war. 
It's such a crazy situation. 

399
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,680
All the different factions over 
there and the Israelis 

400
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,880
intervening now the way they are
and all these things. 

401
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:29,480
And if you do, it's just going 
to lead to conflict. 

402
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,120
And then worst conflict from 
there, just don't do it, please.

403
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,680
And then the next speech. 
This is again Foreign Policy of 

404
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,600
Freedom by Doctor Paul. 
The next speech in line, you 

405
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,920
know, in his House speeches. 
Oh, Mr. Reagan, you didn't 

406
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,400
listen to me and you did the 
wrong thing. 

407
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,520
And you put our guys on the 
ground in Lebanon. 

408
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,760
Please get him out of there 
before it's too late. 

409
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,600
Don't kill anybody. 
Don't escalate. 

410
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,400
Don't give him a mission. 
Don't do nothing. 

411
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,360
Just turn around and go before 
it's too late, man, Let's get 

412
00:22:55,360 --> 00:23:00,520
the hell out of there now. 
Next speech I told you. 

413
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,440
Now 241 Marines are dead and 
what do we get out of it? 

414
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,800
Why are we in Lebanon, Mr. 
Reagan, for God's sake, listen 

415
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,040
to reason. 
Get our boys out of Lebanon now.

416
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,720
And then the next speech, Thank 
God you finally listened to 

417
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,080
reason and you did the right 
thing, Mr. Reagan. 

418
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,880
And you got our guys out now, at
least while we're only this far 

419
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,520
behind instead of much worse. 
So thank goodness for that. 

420
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,320
Because imagine if we decided to
go to war against the Shiites 

421
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,960
there, now allied with Israel in
that mess in Lebanon. 

422
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,400
We'd never get out again and on 
and on like that. 

423
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,240
And it's just the brilliance of 
Doctor Paul and you know, 

424
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,440
finally, at least too late, the 
at least the wisdom of Ronald 

425
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,160
Reagan to listen to that sort of
advice. 

426
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,840
I don't know if he listened to 
Doctor Paul or not, but he 

427
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,400
decided that he wanted to get 
out of there. 

428
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,840
There's no way it was worth it 
for America to get involved 

429
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:55,680
there. 
And he shouldn't have been 

430
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,800
involved there at all. 
And I I don't know. 

431
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,960
He must have given the orders 
for the battleship New Jersey to

432
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,960
join Israel and shelling Shiite 
neighborhoods at some point. 

433
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,840
But I forget exactly when that 
was. 

434
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,840
But I know that later on there 
was a hijacking of a airplane. 

435
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,240
Or was it a ship? 
It may have been the Achille 

436
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,640
Laurel ship. 
I think it was an airplane. 

437
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,720
And then in the terrorists were 
running up and down the aisle 

438
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,720
going New Jersey, NJ and they 
were looking for Americans to 

439
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,360
kill, you know, and they're 
going New Jersey, NJ And the 

440
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,200
people on the plane were like, 
what the hell is he talking 

441
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,280
about? 
Why are they saying that? 

442
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,520
Well, that was the name of the 
battleship that had been 

443
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,720
shelling the neighborhoods, the 
suburbs of Beirut. 

444
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,520
And so that was what the 
terrorist attack was, was 

445
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,520
backdraft terrorism, as we would
call it, direct blowback from 

446
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,120
from that, you know, atrocity. 
They're bombing neighbor. 

447
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:50,280
They don't, they don't know who 
they're killing, shelling 

448
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,640
neighborhoods. 
They're killing innocent people,

449
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,920
obviously. 
And then, you know, Reagan did 

450
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,200
get sick of all of this stuff. 
And I have the quote I I tweet 

451
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,280
this from time to time, A quote 
from Ronald Reagan from 1982, 

452
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,280
where I guess was previous to 
that, where he had called the 

453
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,000
knock and bag and told him, you 
got to cut this out, 'cause 

454
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,200
there was a massive Israeli 
bombing campaign against a 

455
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,440
neighborhood in East Beirut, I 
believe it was. 

456
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:29,680
And and Reagan said in his diary
he wrote, I told beggin that I 

457
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,800
advisably used, I deliberately 
used the word Holocaust. 

458
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,800
And I told him this has to stop.
The symbol of this war is going 

459
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,760
to be a 7 month old girl with 
her arms blown off. 

460
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,920
And that was Reagan said that. 
And then it's a different 

461
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,200
anecdote from it's the same 
anecdote but from a different 

462
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,720
source. 
And I need to go back and find 

463
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,360
this one, but I know that this 
had happened. 

464
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:55,560
Where then the bombing stopped 
in 15 minutes and Reagan said, 

465
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,960
whoa, I didn't realize I could 
do that. 

466
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,600
And that was it. 
Which is another huge lesson for

467
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,400
our current situation, that Joe 
Biden could pick up the phone 

468
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,160
right now and in this war he 
absolutely could. 

469
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,120
But he doesn't have anything 
like the integrity of Ronald 

470
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:13,200
Reagan, unfortunately. 
One more incident. 

471
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:19,360
In 1983 there was a flight that 
was going from Alaska, I believe

472
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:23,200
it was Anchorage, AK to Seoul, 
South Korea and it was shot down

473
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,320
by the Soviets. 
It was a civilian airline 

474
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,840
killing 269 passengers. 
It the sources I have say 62 of 

475
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,480
them were Americans and Reagan 
did not declare war over this. 

476
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,920
And the Soviet Union came 
crumbling down within a decade. 

477
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:44,120
What was the response to this in
general, 'cause there was a 

478
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:48,280
sitting Congressman, Larry 
McDonald, on this flight who 

479
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,480
happened to be the head of the 
John Birch Society at the time, 

480
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,200
which caused a lot of conspiracy
and scandal. 

481
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,120
And the idea that the plane had 
been forced down and that they 

482
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:02,080
all lived, which I think is not 
credible, unfortunately. 

483
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,440
But I think what happened there,
Keith, and this may have had a 

484
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,240
lot to do. 
I mean, depending on what they 

485
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,480
told him, I don't know. 
This may have a lot to do with 

486
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,240
his lack of response was it was 
the Air Force's fault. 

487
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:19,280
They had been on a spy mission 
inside the Soviet Union. 

488
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,320
And then when they were getting 
the hell out of there, when they

489
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,600
were being pursued, they hid in 
the shadow of this civilian 

490
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:32,600
airliner and then bugged out. 
So in other words, on the radar,

491
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,960
they conflated their dot with 
the Korean Airline Double O 7 

492
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,680
flight. 
And then they dove out of there.

493
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,240
And then when the Soviets caught
up to him, they didn't catch up 

494
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,040
to them. 
They caught up to the Double O 7

495
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,480
flight and blew it out of the 
sky. 

496
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,840
So it was the Air Force who had 
put him in that situation and 

497
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,240
got him killed. 
So it could be that they told 

498
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,160
Reagan that. 
And Reagan was like, Oh, well, 

499
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,720
hell, it's kind of hard to crack
down on them that bad over what 

500
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,120
was really, you know, a 
situation we put them in. 

501
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,640
I don't know whether that's. 
And I, and honestly, I was a 

502
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,160
boy, very young boy at the time,
81. 

503
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,800
I was in, you know, preschool. 
So I don't have any memory of 

504
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,360
that. 
I do remember the day Reagan was

505
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:20,520
inaugurated when I was 4, but I 
don't remember you know exactly 

506
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,040
how that was handled then. 
Well, it it's just incredible. 

507
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,360
They didn't kill the world over 
it when they could have 

508
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,680
escalated. 
He could have just started 

509
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,040
pounding his first on the table 
and made everything worse. 

510
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,800
You know, I don't know enough 
about this guy. 

511
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,920
I should probably read this 
guy's autobiography or whatever 

512
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,280
the hell if there is one. 
But his Secretary of State was 

513
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,520
George Schultz, who was 
apparently not the most psycho 

514
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,840
out of all these guys, although 
he was a war profiteer and and 

515
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,920
did have his problems. 
I don't want to go on a whole 

516
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,840
tangent about him. 
He apparently at the time was 

517
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,320
one of the least worst of 
Reagan's advisers and would 

518
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,000
preach caution when some of the 
other guys were going off half 

519
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,520
cocked and that kind of thing. 
Well, it's just incredible 

520
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,800
because we get all this hawkish 
talk because of a fake Russian 

521
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:12,200
interference event in 2016. 
We get more hawkish talk when we

522
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,360
hear that Putin has put bounties
on the head of soldiers in 

523
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,000
Afghanistan. 
So all these fake things are 

524
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,200
getting people so hawkish, but 
these were real things that took

525
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,120
place. 
And Ronald Reagan? 

526
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,000
Mr. Conservative didn't declare 
war, and the Soviet empire came 

527
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,200
crumbling down after it's It's 
just unbelievable that we have. 

528
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,920
We have real examples, yeah. 
And and look, let's go further 

529
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,680
than that. 
What ended the Cold War? 

530
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,080
It wasn't America just defeated 
the Soviet Union, drove them 

531
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,160
into bankruptcy. 
Just simple as that. 

532
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,960
Something like that. 
That's not what happened. 

533
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,440
What happened was Gorbachev 
ended the Soviet Union, ended 

534
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,680
the Cold War, and he actually 
did try to hold on to the last 

535
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,600
vestiges of the Soviet Union, 
but by then it was too late. 

536
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,680
But the only reason that any of 
the was, in hindsight, 

537
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,600
especially like this virtually 
magical transformation of the 

538
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,440
the Velvet Revolution throughout
Eastern Europe in 1988 through 

539
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,480
91, in the fall of the Soviet 
Union and the freedom of Eastern

540
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,760
Europe and the rest of the 
Soviet Empire, too. 

541
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,120
That that all happened because 
Reagan treated Gorbachev with 

542
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,560
respect. 
That all happened because they 

543
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,440
were partners working to build 
trust and end the Cold War 

544
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,920
together. 
And Reagan said, look, all the 

545
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,600
old guys who'd fought in World 
War 2 and had worked for Stalin 

546
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,000
and all that, all those guys 
were finally gone. 

547
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,360
Gorbachev was the first guy who 
was 45. 

548
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,440
And Reagan walked right up to 
him, shook his hand and said, 

549
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,280
you know, if the aliens attack, 
you and us are going to have to 

550
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,880
team up and fight them off. 
And Gorbachev's like, what? 

551
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,680
What? 
And. 

552
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,280
But you know, Reagan's like a 
foot and a half taller than him 

553
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,800
and he's wearing his cowboy hat 
and his big trench coat and 

554
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,800
whatever. 
And he just pulls alpha dog. 

555
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,120
Hey there young man shakes his 
hand and is like you're my guy 

556
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,360
now And and the and the dictator
of the Soviet Union is like I 

557
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,760
guess I'm your guy now like he 
just did so he just that was how

558
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,400
he did it and again trust but 
verify never meant trust. 

559
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,960
Trust but verify meant hey I 
really like you. 

560
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,840
Let's get along very politely 
here in our diplomacy and sign a

561
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,960
deal on what we can agree on. 
And as part of that deal, we are

562
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,360
going to have a vast and 
intrusive inspection regime to 

563
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,200
guarantee that it all comes 
true, right? 

564
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,120
That that's what trust. 
But verify means. 

565
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,240
Means no. 
Trust means be polite during 

566
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,880
diplomacy and call it trust 
because it's polite to call it 

567
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,800
trust. 
That's it, right? 

568
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,600
Ronald Reagan was not a 
pushover, you know, called him a

569
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,400
pushover. 
Norman Podhoretz and the 

570
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,920
neoconservatives said he was 
Neville Chamberlain selling out 

571
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:05,080
to Hitler at Munich. 
But he was Ronald Reagan and he 

572
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,640
didn't make a deal with the 
devil. 

573
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,960
He made a deal with a bureaucrat
and it paid off, man. 

574
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,480
He destroyed the Soviet empire 
through goodwill, Not through 

575
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,720
covert action. 
Through. 

576
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,040
Hey, man, come on. 
There ain't no reason we got to 

577
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,240
keep doing this. 
Isn't that what you think too? 

578
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,760
And then look, it's right as the
election of 88 is taking place, 

579
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,800
right as Reagan is on his very 
last lame duck months, The wall 

580
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,200
starts coming down. 
Immigrants start breaking out. 

581
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,920
I believe someone corrected me 
on this. 

582
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,320
And then I didn't go back and 
check. 

583
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,320
The way I remember it was the 
first border that broke open was

584
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,440
from Hungary into Austria, and 
Austria was neutral and free, 

585
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,000
not aligned with the West, but 
neutral and not occupied by the 

586
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,760
Soviets. 
And when people started escaping

587
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,200
from communist Hungary into 
Austria, the border guards 

588
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:00,800
didn't machine gun them all the 
death. 

589
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,080
They sat there and left. 
And the Soviet Union kids, for 

590
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,800
real, the border guards were 
there to keep you in, and they 

591
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,000
would murder you if you try to 
escape the country. 

592
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,360
That's very real. 
Not just the Berlin Wall 

593
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,000
situation in West Berlin, but 
the entire border of the 

594
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,120
communist world with the free 
world at that time. 

595
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,760
You can't exaggerate or make 
that up. 

596
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,000
That's for real. 
You try to escape with your 

597
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,680
family. 
They will murder you all in cold

598
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,720
blood. 
And that was what that was for. 

599
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,400
And all that just fell apart. 
And it was an atmosphere of 

600
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,960
trust and decency. 
And this world, in fact, is big 

601
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,960
enough for both of us. 
So let's figure it out. 

602
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,480
They figured it out, Keith. 
I was reading Kyle Anzalone's 

603
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,960
research and he claimed that in 
on September 11th 2001, George 

604
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,240
Bush's first phone call from a 
Prime Minister was from Vladimir

605
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,000
Putin, saying that you and I are
in this together in fighting 

606
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,680
terrorism. 
It's amazing how this guy has 

607
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,080
been driven into the arms of 
Beijing, as Pat Buchanan likes 

608
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,640
to say, when it seemed like 
Putin wanted to be nothing but a

609
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,200
friend. 
The idea that this guy is so bad

610
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,160
after we had a formal alliance 
with Stalin in the Second World 

611
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,000
War that we can't work with him 
it that's just unbelievable. 

612
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,080
Did you see XI Jinping's speech 
in San Francisco? 

613
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,360
No, I didn't. 
In fact, why don't you update 

614
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:17,360
me? 
Well, actually, hold that 

615
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,880
thought one second. 
So let me talk about what you 

616
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,040
just said, because Vladimir 
Putin has been explicit about 

617
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,560
this for 20 more than 20 years. 
Just as he's coming into power. 

618
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,760
He released a book of, you know,
a friendly interview of him 

619
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,080
about his entire life story and 
this that the other thing. 

620
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,719
And he makes it very clear, 
look, we're Europeans, dude. 

621
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,960
Look at us like, hey, out in 
Siberia, some of those guys are 

622
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,760
more Asiatic looking and 
whatever. 

623
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,239
But over here, we're white 
Christians, we are part of the 

624
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,239
European family. 
What do we what? 

625
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,800
What other choice do we have to 
we got to figure it out and work

626
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,560
with these people. 
And of course Russia is Russia. 

627
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,320
It's weird. 
They ain't the Germans or 

628
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,280
something else. 
And they're further E than on 

629
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,800
the other side of Poland and 
Lithuania and everything. 

630
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,120
So, you know, and they were 
ruled by the Golden Horde for 

631
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,040
all those years. 
And there's there's different 

632
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,480
circumstances of things. 
But ultimately, who are we 

633
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,440
ultimately? 
We are part of the European 

634
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,160
family period. 
We have to be. 

635
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,080
And that was what Gorbachev 
believed as well. 

636
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,440
That was what Yeltsin believed, 
and that was what Putin believed

637
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,720
when he came in. 
And I believe it was a quote 

638
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:23,200
that he told Madeleine Albright.
They're like, come on, it's fun 

639
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,840
to dress up in silk and eat with
chopsticks and stuff sometimes. 

640
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,600
But that's, you know, Thursday 
night, going out to dinner, 

641
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,080
whatever. 
That's not the way. 

642
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,760
That's not who we are. 
We're Europeans with you. 

643
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,360
And of course, that's our 
destiny. 

644
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,920
That's obviously what we have to
do and what we want. 

645
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,320
He had asked the Clinton 
government if they could join 

646
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,000
NATO, and Clinton just ignored 
him. 

647
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,880
And he had asked Colin Powell in
July of 2001. 

648
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,720
And again, was just completely 
ignored. 

649
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,160
Like, we're not even going to 
dignify that because if we bring

650
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,360
Russia into NATO, we got to 
listen to them and we don't want

651
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,840
to do that. 
We can Lord it over everybody 

652
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,640
else in NATO. 
They'll do whatever we say. 

653
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,840
But the Russians, we have to 
really share power. 

654
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:03,960
And then who are we going to 
fight? 

655
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,160
We would rather point NATO at 
them. 

656
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,960
Then what? 
Bring them to war with us 

657
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,280
against Iraq. 
Then we got to share the oil 

658
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:12,920
with them. 
And you know, this, that. 

659
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,600
Why do that? 
Why? 

660
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,760
Why allow them in on our empire 
if we don't have to, was the 

661
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,000
American attitude, and we'll 
just build the empire up at 

662
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,280
their expense. 
And then what are they going to 

663
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,360
do about it? 
You know, they knew all along 

664
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,720
they were provoking Russia. 
They were worn by their 

665
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:29,960
brightest minds all along that 
expanding NATO into Russia's 

666
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,680
territory is sure to provoke a 
terrible reaction. 

667
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,040
And then the quotes I got them 
collect them like Hot Wheels, 

668
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,600
man, over and over and over 
again. 

669
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,040
They say, yeah, well, what are 
they going to do about it? 

670
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,640
They used to be a superpower. 
Now they're not. 

671
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,480
And only we are. 
And that means we can do 

672
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,920
whatever they want, what 
whatever we want, and they can't

673
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,760
do anything about it. 
Simple as that. 

674
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,120
They say it over and over and 
over again and sometimes they 

675
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,520
even confess. 
This was our attitude. 

676
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,240
What are they going to do about 
it? 

677
00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:59,760
Like the worst bullies. 
Exactly what your bully said. 

678
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,120
He in, in junior high or 
whatever, right? 

679
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,120
It's like this is exactly how 
they talk. 

680
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,240
So when it comes to. 
War guarantees. 

681
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:13,240
It seems like people are very 
generous and very kind. 

682
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:15,440
They say, I really care about 
the people in Taiwan. 

683
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,880
We should have, we should give 
them a war guarantee. 

684
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,520
Poroshenko went to the Council 
on Foreign Relations recently 

685
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,520
and said what Ukraine really 
needs is NATO membership. 

686
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,320
And all the everyone in the 
crowd saying I'm a nice person, 

687
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,720
we should give NATO, we should 
give Ukraine somewhat of a war 

688
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,960
guarantee. 
The amazing thing I have come 

689
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,200
across is that Poland was 
actually given a war guarantee 

690
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,040
by the British Empire. 
As a causal result of this, 

691
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,480
Britain declares war on Germany 
after invading Poland on 

692
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,840
September 1st, 1939. 
And as a result, 8 million Poles

693
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,960
were left dead because of this 
very kind, generous offer. 

694
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,320
Even in the First World War, Sir
Edward Gray had in agreement 

695
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,800
with the French Empire. 
We will be on your side if 

696
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,440
Germany ever declares war 
against you. 

697
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,080
France loses 1.3 million people.
And the whole place is 

698
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,600
completely trashed. 
That so much so that they were 

699
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,800
willing to, you know, easily 
give in to the National 

700
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,920
Socialist 20 years later. 
So it turns out, historically, 

701
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,400
these war guarantees do not do 
much for the country you're 

702
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,280
doing this huge favor for. 
When it comes to giving war 

703
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,760
guarantees to Ukraine and 
Taiwan, what do people need to 

704
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,560
know? 
Yeah, well, and like in the 

705
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,000
Polish example, according to 
Churchill, the book by Pat 

706
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,320
Buchanan, this really was a 
moral hazard. 

707
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:33,320
And so the colonels who ran 
Poland at the time, they were a 

708
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,720
bunch of anti-Semitic fascists 
themselves. 

709
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:38,440
They were called the colonels 
who ran the place. 

710
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,240
And but as soon as they got the 
war guarantee, they started, you

711
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,040
know, raising their voice and 
telling Hitler to go straight to

712
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,200
hell for all of his demands 
about the corridor to Danzig. 

713
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,560
And we don't know what they 
would have done otherwise, but 

714
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,440
we know what they did when they 
got a shot of liquid courage 

715
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,560
from the Brits, you know, a 
pint, I guess, would be a better

716
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,440
way to say it. 
And so then they went and 

717
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,600
talked, you know, more tough and
got into a battle that they 

718
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,400
could not win. 
And of course, even at the end 

719
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,320
of the war, when their enemies, 
the Germans, were defeated, they

720
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,720
were still conquered by their 
other enemies, the Soviets, and 

721
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:14,600
and enslaved for decades after 
that. 

722
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,280
So very important lesson there 
as well. 

723
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,080
And this is the same lesson for 
Taiwan is as long as America 

724
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,160
says, hey, Taiwan, we've got 
your back. 

725
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:27,200
Well, that makes them braver 
than they otherwise would be. 

726
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,600
And you might say, well, jeez, 
it would be unjust for mainland 

727
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,040
China just have their way with 
them and take their sovereignty 

728
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,040
away. 
But then you might also say, 

729
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,560
well, that's just tough. 
It's a tiny little island 90 

730
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,920
miles off the coast of China, 
7000 miles West of San Diego, 

731
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,560
dude. 
So what do you think you're 

732
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:52,200
going to do about it, you know? 
And So what happens is America 

733
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,600
set up the system back when the 
Chinese were powerless to do 

734
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,240
anything about it. 
Right. 

735
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:02,080
And and you know, Nixon was 
willing to trade away American 

736
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,880
protection of Taiwan for 
normalization deal with Mao 

737
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,360
Zedong and mainland China in 
1974. 

738
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,240
Because Taiwan doesn't really 
matter to us, but it matters 

739
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,000
very much to them. 
So why would we let that be such

740
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,560
a big sticking point, right. 
And then. 

741
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,880
But you have had a course like 
the Nationalist right. 

742
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,200
Were the ones on Taiwan as 
opposed to the commies in 

743
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,560
Beijing. 
And of course during the worst 

744
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,840
of the horror show of the 
starvation campaign and and the 

745
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,960
consequences of communism on the
mainland in Taiwan they still 

746
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,920
lived in a right wing military 
dictatorship and they had really

747
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,440
badly oppressed the natives. 
But at least the Han Chinese 

748
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,120
that had taken over the place 
ended up creating a a more 

749
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,080
prosperous society there. 
So it certainly made a lot of 

750
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,600
sense that they did not want to 
bow down to Mao and they didn't 

751
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,360
have to 'cause he didn't have 
any ability to invade their 

752
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,720
island and dominate it anyway, 
and especially now with the 

753
00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:00,360
American Salem back and forth in
the straits right? 

754
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,080
So that was the status quo, made
perfect sense. 

755
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,200
The problem is America kept 
pouring weapons into Taiwan, F 

756
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,920
sixteens and other like big 
ticket items. 

757
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,640
And while at the same time the 
Chinese are building up a 

758
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,760
massive first world naval power.
And you know, including if they 

759
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,560
militarize their merchant 
marine, which of course they can

760
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,000
with a snap of my fingers, they 
got 20,000 ships or something, 

761
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,640
man, they got a huge fleet to 
invade that island with now if 

762
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:34,920
you do it like that. 
So they've been building up the 

763
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,200
capability to do it. 
Now America used to have a 

764
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,800
policy called dual deterrence 
and there's a great article by 

765
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,080
Gareth Porter about this where 
America would tell the 

766
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,560
Taiwanese, hey, you pipe down, 
OK. 

767
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,520
And then they would tell 
Mainland China, hey man, don't 

768
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,120
mess with them. 
I'm not promising I would fight 

769
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,880
you if you attacked them, but I 
might so don't. 

770
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,680
OK And that's the strategic 
ambiguity. 

771
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:04,080
It's not a severe it's not a a 
real war guarantee to Taiwan but

772
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,520
it's a heavily implied one And 
this is the the Nixon slash 

773
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:14,080
Carter doctrine for Taiwan and 
China is that they will be we 

774
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,400
America recognizes it's one 
China and they will be reunited 

775
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,960
one day. 
We hope peacefully, but we 

776
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,840
recognize that they will be 
reunited under one sovereignty 

777
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,120
as one nation at some point 
instead of negotiating toward 

778
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,560
that and being trying to deal 
with the thing in a way that 

779
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,800
puts peace at the premium 
instead, the idea is how much 

780
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,040
advantage can we get against 
China at all costs, right. 

781
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,440
And so it's a whole different 
game. 

782
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,480
And they end up building up all 
these massive microchip firms 

783
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,440
and factories and all these 
things on Taiwan that then we're

784
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,120
terribly dependent on. 
And then they go, oh, we'll see,

785
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,880
we have all these massive 
strategic interests in Taiwan 

786
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,760
that we can't forsake when who 
put them there when they're 90 

787
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,760
miles off the shore of the giant
kami mainland that you don't 

788
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,200
control and don't want to ever 
have the possibility of 

789
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,960
controlling that thing. 
It's kind of a tripwire for war 

790
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,400
and a war that we can't really 
win. 

791
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,520
That's way too far away from 
here, and that they now do 

792
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,240
certainly have the capability to
sink our ships and splash our 

793
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,720
planes out of the sky if we 
really went for it. 

794
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,840
And so the lesson for Taiwan 
should be right back to dual 

795
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,520
deterrence. 
Hey, you guys should know like 

796
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,040
we're not coming. 
So you should stop talking all 

797
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,840
tough, and you should stop 
voting for right wingers with 

798
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,480
big mouths about independence 
'cause there's probably nothing 

799
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,920
that will provoke a Chinese 
invasion other than a 

800
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,360
Declaration of Independence or 
America building up their 

801
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:48,440
military force so powerfully, or
embarking on a project too, that

802
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,560
the Chinese feel like, oh man, 
just like calibrating the 

803
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,240
weapons we're dumping into 
Ukraine, that we're giving them 

804
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:59,680
no choice they if they it's 
absolutely now or later, but 

805
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,120
harder. 
We'll just do it now. 

806
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,040
You know what I mean? 
Exactly. 

807
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,880
One final question, because the 
Middle East is back in the news 

808
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:16,000
constantly. 
We I just had Ukraine completely

809
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,320
monopolizing my television, and 
now it's like Zelensky's totally

810
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,960
gone. 
Netanyahu is back. 

811
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,600
In one of the footnotes you use 
in your excellent book Fool's 

812
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,800
Errand, Time to End the War in 
Afghanistan, you cite the work 

813
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,520
of Robert Pape. 
What are the lessons you learned

814
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:38,320
from the work of Robert Pape? 
Yeah, so Pape is a political 

815
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,440
science professor from the 
University of Chicago. 

816
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,800
So he is more famous, I think, 
for his studies of air power and

817
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,520
how effective it is. 
Conclusion being, it's not 

818
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,400
effective at all unless it's 
combined with ground force that 

819
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,040
knows what the hell it's doing, 
etcetera. 

820
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,840
And then he wrote two books 
about Terrorism, Dying to Win, 

821
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,160
The Strategic Logic of Suicide, 
Terrorism and Cutting the Fuse. 

822
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,520
I forgot exactly how the 
subtitle goes, something about 

823
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,680
how to stop suicide Terrorism in
our eras. 

824
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,200
So anyway, Cutting the Fuse and 
Dying to win. 

825
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:15,000
And basically what happened was 
he thought, man, I really want 

826
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,480
to study Islam to find out 
what's so crazy about this 

827
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,520
religion that it makes people 
hate us and want to kill us all 

828
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,760
the time. 
And he started looking into who 

829
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,440
does terrorism, and it turned 
out it mostly wasn't Muslims. 

830
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,160
And he went, oh, well, that's 
kind of a weird causation, 

831
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,760
correlation, sort of a situation
there. 

832
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,840
Let me look at that. 
And he found terrorism all over 

833
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,800
the world and in fact explicitly
found suicide terrorism all over

834
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,520
the world. 
And at that time in Sri Lanka, 

835
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,320
where everybody is either a 
Buddhist or a commie, atheist 

836
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:46,920
Hindu. 
So. 

837
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,040
And that's who's fighting. 
There's no Muhammad involved, 

838
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,240
and yet there's suicide bombing 
going on from the occupied 

839
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:56,960
versus the occupier. 
So what he did, he's a professor

840
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,800
at a college. 
So what he did was he got all 

841
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,760
his grad students and he made 
them crunch all the numbers. 

842
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,880
And they tracked the names and 
histories of every suicide 

843
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,320
bomber on earth from 1980 
through 2003. 

844
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:16,440
And they found that 100% of them
were suicide bombing against 

845
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,000
people that they considered to 
be illegal occupiers of their 

846
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,040
land and usually, you know, 
foreign powers. 

847
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,200
So like, you know again, the 
Hindus occupying the Buddhists 

848
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,680
in Sri Lanka were the. 
Tamil Tigers, I think the Tamil 

849
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,640
Tigers, that's right. 
And then and then and they were 

850
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,000
the leaders in suicide bombing 
in the world until 2003, when W 

851
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,560
Bush turned Iraq into Al Qaeda 
University, where there had 

852
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,520
never been a suicide bombing 
before. 

853
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,720
And Bush turned the entire 
western half of the country into

854
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:48,920
bin Laden. 
Stand there and turn that, 

855
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,920
create that disaster. 
And then so Pape just says, 

856
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,960
like, OK, so then when they were
going to escalate into 

857
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,040
Afghanistan, Pape goes, well, 
don't do that, 'cause you're 

858
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,760
just going to increase all the 
suicide bombing. 

859
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,320
It's like a mathematical program
here. 

860
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,720
The more you do this, the worse 
it gets, the more you. 

861
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,000
And of course, that was right. 
And the Taliban had not really 

862
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,960
ever done suicide attacks 
before. 

863
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,880
Maybe very few of them. 
But I mean Obama's surge, they 

864
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,080
sure as hell did because they're
very effective when it comes 

865
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,040
down to it and they really 
spread terror. 

866
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,880
People like standing around you 
might be strapped under their 

867
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,280
gown or whatever, you know. 
So it's it really is a 

868
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:31,880
disruptive phenomenon and and 
very effective tactic in war as 

869
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:38,400
the Taliban found and and they 
were mimicking the battlefield 

870
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,640
in Iraq that Bush had created. 
You know this is the kind of 

871
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,440
thing that they had no 
experience with before. 

872
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,920
It was the Americans who had 
made it that way And anyone can 

873
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,000
tell you now any American could 
be Robert A Pape right now and 

874
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,960
tell you that come on would any 
would anyone say we had to do 

875
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,440
Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya 
and Somalia and Syria and Yemen.

876
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,400
No, come on. 
Nobody believes in this anymore.

877
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,320
Donald Trump said going to the 
Middle East was the worst 

878
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,360
decision any American president 
ever made. 

879
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,680
And that goes for Bush and Obama
and everything since. 

880
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,480
And so you know he's completely 
right about that. 

881
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,080
There was no Al Qaeda in a fight
in Afghanistan except 2-3 

882
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,000
hundred men. 
And when they escaped, Bush 

883
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,440
called off the hunt and let him 
go and then he took the battle 

884
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,120
to the Taliban instead when it 
was Al Qaeda that were the 

885
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,280
guilty and he did a regime 
change in Kabul and then he 

886
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,960
turned the whole country upside 
down and Obama tripled the war 

887
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,640
and they stayed for 20 years and
then lost anyway. 

888
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,520
Taliban right back in power 
where they had been in Iraq, 

889
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,640
they turn the West over to Al 
Qaeda. 

890
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:46,320
They turn the east over to Iran.
In Libya, they turn, you know, 

891
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,000
much of the country over to Al 
Qaeda, but then also just all 

892
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,880
different warring militias and 
crime rings of, you know, 

893
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,720
innumerable description. 
In Syria, they supported Al 

894
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:58,440
Qaeda so damn bad. 
It grew up into the caliphate 

895
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:03,160
that seized eastern Syria in 
2013, seized all of western Iraq

896
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,200
in 2014 with Baghdadi, who might
as well have been bin Laden 

897
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,240
himself, up there on the balcony
declaring himself the dictator 

898
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:13,400
in the bin Ladenite caliphate. 
And all this madness that then 

899
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,960
required Obama to launch Iraq 
War Four again on the side of 

900
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,600
the Shiites, to destroy the 
Sunni bin Ladenite caliphate 

901
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,480
that he built to spite the 
Shiites for Bush, winning the 

902
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,000
war for them the last time 
around? 

903
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,840
And who? 
Who could stand for any of that?

904
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,000
Look at all the soldiers who'd 
fought in Iraq War Two and then 

905
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,480
during Iraq War three, we're 
like, man, look at ISIS running 

906
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,600
riot in Ramadi right now. 
You know what I mean? 

907
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,200
This is crazy. 
My boys died for that. 

908
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,000
And we're giving them freedom 
and democracy. 

909
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,400
And look at this. 
And it's all because of American

910
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,640
policy in Iraq and in Syria. 
Bush and Obama both working 

911
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,880
together to create that 
catastrophe for these people. 

912
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,960
And so nobody believes in it now
'cause what is there to believe 

913
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:03,000
in now? 
You know who's shooting missiles

914
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,080
at our guys in Iraq right now, 
Keith? 

915
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:10,000
Our allies, the Shiite militias 
that we fought, Iraq War Two and

916
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,240
Iraq War 3/4 are the ones 
shooting missiles at our guys 

917
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:16,800
stationed in that country as 
revenge for what Israel's doing 

918
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,720
in Gaza right now. 
Man, who could believe in any of

919
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:23,440
that? 
Never had to be this way at all.

920
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,680
Of course, did not have to be 
this way. 

921
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,960
If you want this kind of 
analysis, check out 

922
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:34,000
libertarianinstitute.org. 
Just published A terrific book 

923
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,080
titled The Fake China Threat by 
Joe Salas Mullins. 

924
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,400
We also have COVID material 
questioning the COVID company 

925
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,320
line. 
The great thing about Laurie's 

926
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,480
work? 
I'm sorry, It's a fantastic 

927
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,720
book. 
It's Laurie Calhoun's collection

928
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:52,360
of all of her essays against the
COVID regime all along and 

929
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,320
proving what a brilliant genius 
she is. 

930
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,880
And Lori's so great because even
though it seems like COVID was 

931
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,600
35 years ago, every single 
article she has are able to 

932
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,560
extract lessons and apply them 
to the present. 

933
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:09,120
If you want a collection of the 
45 essays that took me from 

934
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:13,200
being a progressive to being a 
libertarian, you can check out 

935
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,720
the Volunteerist Handbook. 
And of course, we have enough 

936
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,040
already. 
Time to End the War on 

937
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,440
Terrorism. 
Each chapter is very 

938
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,800
informative. 
It goes through one section of 

939
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,920
the Terror War at a time, which 
is very helpful 'cause it allows

940
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,920
you to go back months after and 
remember specific things about 

941
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,440
Pak Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, 
Syria. 

942
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:36,920
So all of that can be found at 
libertarianinstitute.org. 

943
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,560
Make a tax deductible donation 
today. 

944
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,560
Scott Horton, thank you for your
time. 

945
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:43,000
Thank you so much.