1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,600 Welcome to Keith's night. Don't tread on anyone in the 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:05,700 libertarian Institute today. I'm joined by dr. 3 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:11,000 Eric Smith, he is co-founder and co-editor of fbt free. 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,100 Black thought he is a writing fellow for heterodox Academy 5 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:19,000 associate professor of rhetoric York College of Pennsylvania, 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,800 and author of the 2020 book, a critique of anti racism in 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,800 rhetoric and composition. The semblance of empowerment dr. 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,000 Smith, thank you so much for your time. 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,900 Time. Thanks for having me. 10 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:36,100 What is rhetoric? Why is it important rhetoric? 11 00:00:36,100 --> 00:00:39,600 Is the study of effective communication, or to study of 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,600 persuasion? Aristotle's, definition seems to 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,600 be the traditional one. And his definition is that 14 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:52,200 rhetoric is the ability to discern in any given situation, 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:53,800 the available means of persuasion. 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,200 So what does availability mean? That means you have to gauge 17 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,500 your audience, the situation, and realize, Is what statements 18 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:05,400 will, you know, get you to your goal and what statements will 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,500 not based on that particular situation. 20 00:01:08,500 --> 00:01:12,400 It's called Kairos, which is a Confluence of time plays 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,200 audience subject matter who you are in that context and things 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,200 like that. So that is the quickest 23 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:22,900 explanation of rhetoric. I can give you. 24 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:28,800 Why is it important though? Well in a civil society in which 25 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,900 people get together and create associations and institutes as 26 00:01:32,900 --> 00:01:37,100 they see fit as individuals, they have to have a good reason 27 00:01:37,100 --> 00:01:38,700 for doing. So in a good reason for getting 28 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:41,200 other people to join in, what's more? 29 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,200 If you're going to have a pluralistic Civil Society, then 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,400 you by Nature, will have various viewpoints. 31 00:01:48,100 --> 00:01:50,800 And, you know, if you have various viewpoints, you would do 32 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,000 well to have rhetorical skill to sell yours right in. 33 00:01:55,100 --> 00:01:58,400 Marketplace of ideas, whereas Jonathan Roush, my SATA Martin, 34 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:03,100 the marketplace of persuasion. So rhetoric is imperative to a 35 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:08,400 pluralistic and civil Democratic Society, otherwise we devolve 36 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:13,900 into violence. What is the general mission of 37 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:19,300 the heterodox Academy? It's to preserve an appreciation 38 00:02:19,300 --> 00:02:23,500 for Viewpoint diversity and tolerating viewpoints that are 39 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:24,800 yours. You don't have to light those 40 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:30,200 viewpoints but you can you know, address those viewpoints with 41 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,700 your free speech and your diversity of viewpoints, right? 42 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:38,800 You're not shutting people up, you're not coercing them to say 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,200 certain things. They don't want to say. 44 00:02:40,900 --> 00:02:43,900 And you're not silencing them, you're talking to them. 45 00:02:43,900 --> 00:02:52,400 So there is a the tacit meaning or mission of heterodox Academy 46 00:02:52,900 --> 00:02:56,600 is well use your words right? It's not just Viewpoint 47 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,200 diversity. Everybody has a is allowed to 48 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,900 have a Viewpoint. It's also use your words to deal 49 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:05,000 with the viewpoints. You do not want to deal with. 50 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,700 So I mean, I think rhetoric is a foundational aspect of that 51 00:03:09,700 --> 00:03:10,800 organization, as well. Well. 52 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,000 Without the state regulating what people can and can't say. 53 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:20,300 This would allow extremists to rise up and coerce the 54 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:23,600 population in ways that are far worse than just silencing some 55 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,400 free speech. How do you respond to that 56 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,200 mindset? Well, they can speak and so can 57 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,700 you right? And the key is to be I mean this 58 00:03:32,700 --> 00:03:35,400 is why rhetoric is important Aristotle said if you have the 59 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,200 truth and you lose debate to somebody who is lying, that's 60 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,700 your fault. You know you You should have had 61 00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:44,200 better skills, you know, especially if you were telling 62 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,300 the truth. So when it comes to things like 63 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:52,100 that or possibilities like that, that actually feeds my 64 00:03:52,500 --> 00:03:55,500 justifications for why everybody should be as rhetorically Savvy 65 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:59,300 as possible, Right? To address those things and to 66 00:03:59,300 --> 00:04:03,300 be convincing when you address those things because it is, you 67 00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:06,400 know, I like the metaphor of a Marketplace of ideas. 68 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,400 You're, you're you're basically selling you are idea to 69 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,600 Consumers. And the better you do that, the 70 00:04:12,608 --> 00:04:17,700 better they will take your idea. So my answer to that is be good 71 00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:22,400 at rhetoric when it comes to some, of the people who you 72 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,800 would know, maybe in Hollywood or politics, who have the best 73 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,700 rhetoric skills, who comes to mind. 74 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,900 Wait in Hollywood and politics of the best friend. 75 00:04:31,300 --> 00:04:34,900 Yeah, I'm just trying to think of people that the average 76 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:37,800 American would know. So this could be any sort of 77 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,800 Communicator, you know. Professors politicians people 78 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,900 in. Hollywood people in the media 79 00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:45,500 who comes to mind. When you think of really people 80 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:47,900 who have a lot of skills when it comes to rhetoric. 81 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:50,300 Oh wow. You're gonna get me in trouble 82 00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:54,700 here because no one particularly come to mine. 83 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,900 Now, Bill Clinton, I was going to say, Bill Clinton, I really 84 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:06,100 love because he, you know, I was watching him in a debate with 85 00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:09,100 Bush senior the other day, you can find it on YouTube and I go, 86 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,000 you know, I am Biggest non Clinton fan but this guy knows 87 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,500 how to communicate. And I have a lot to learn from 88 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:18,900 this prick. Yeah, he was, he was smooth. 89 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:21,900 Yes, he was smooth. And it reason why I didn't 90 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:24,900 mention it because it was the 90s and I thought maybe you're 91 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:26,900 looking for somebody more contemporary. 92 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:31,300 But yeah, that did come to mind, I think Obama had a bit of Savvy 93 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:36,100 to but I mean I can't really there's nobody out there. 94 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:38,600 What? No, that's not fair. 95 00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:41,000 I'll say this. What they're doing? 96 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,400 You know, if they're being good. Rhetoricians is gauging Their 97 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,100 audience and speaking accordingly. 98 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:50,000 So, you know, if you're speaking to America at large, you may 99 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,400 really say, well, you know what? I'm going to Target a particular 100 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,200 audience, my base, you know, or something like that, you know? 101 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,400 And I remember when people used to complain about Trump and his 102 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,800 speeches and things like that, and people say he's such a 103 00:06:03,808 --> 00:06:06,900 terrible, you know, you know, speak Maori. 104 00:06:07,100 --> 00:06:10,300 He's so bad at that and I would be like, you're not as audience. 105 00:06:11,700 --> 00:06:13,900 He's talking to somebody else. Who he's talking to somebody 106 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:17,500 else, who loves that speech, you know, who loves his rhetoric. 107 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:22,100 We're not the, there's a term for these things and rhetorical 108 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:23,200 Theory. We're not. 109 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,800 His second Persona, we're not his direct audience. 110 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:28,500 We're the third Persona, where the people who are there, but 111 00:06:28,500 --> 00:06:32,400 he's not talking to, right? So, if I'm, I'm sorry. 112 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:37,300 Yeah, no, no, I'm done. So, if I'm trying to persuade in 113 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:39,700 audience, I have to know who my audience is. 114 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:43,000 First, what else do I have to know before going into a social 115 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,700 situation? If my goal is to persuade? 116 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:49,800 Well, that's where Kairos comes into play, right? 117 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,300 So, you know, your audience and by knowing your audience, you 118 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:54,700 know, their values attitudes and beliefs to the best of your 119 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:58,400 ability, you know, their interest, you know, the exigence 120 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,400 were urgent problem, that they may have. 121 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,700 And you're going to speak accordingly, but you should 122 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:07,900 probably So know who else is there, right? 123 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:09,900 You're going to speak differently. 124 00:07:09,900 --> 00:07:14,100 If somebody who has your same ethos but has the opposite 125 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,700 opinion is there, right? Who May challenge you in those 126 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:19,700 situations? You may say things differently 127 00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:21,700 than you would. If you think that person is not 128 00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:24,500 going to be there, right? You're going to have more 129 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,500 preparation for the counter arguments and things like that. 130 00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:32,200 There may be people in the audience who are that third 131 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,600 Persona, right? Who you're not directly speaking 132 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,400 to how might they influence the Dynamics of the situation. 133 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:46,000 So you do well to understand the timing even, you know, when is 134 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,400 this happening? What happened before? 135 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,800 The meeting, what happened? What's going to happen after the 136 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,700 meeting? How is that shaping? 137 00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:57,300 How the audience may receive me? So you're what you're doing is 138 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:59,500 to the best of your ability, right? 139 00:07:59,700 --> 00:08:03,400 Understanding the importance of the time of day, the time of 140 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,400 month, or year. Where is being held, you know, 141 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,500 I'm as right down to the physicality of the environment. 142 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:13,400 How big is this room? How small is it? 143 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:18,000 That may affect how you not just enunciate but the you know how 144 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,800 you interact with the audience, maybe you stand on the stage all 145 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,400 the time. If you walk around because it is 146 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,000 that small, all these things come into play and if you can do 147 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,700 that stuff before the speech, you know, you'll be better able 148 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:34,400 to persuade. Ideally the site is free. 149 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,100 Black Thought.com link will be in the description below. 150 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,200 I'm going to give you a sentence from a gentleman who I won't 151 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,200 name cuz I don't want to bias you. 152 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:49,000 You please rhetorically analyze the logic and rhetoric of this 153 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,500 sentence. A racist is one, who is 154 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:55,300 supporting a racist policy through their actions or 155 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:58,000 inaction by expressing a racist idea. 156 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:03,200 Okay, I that sounds like somebody familiar and that 157 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,200 statement by By itself. Well is insanely redundant 158 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,900 right? You know you don't it's like I 159 00:09:08,900 --> 00:09:11,800 using the word you're trying to Define in the definition, right? 160 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,700 You don't do that. To be fair, though he does in 161 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:19,100 other places in that book we're talking about Kandi. 162 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:25,900 Yeah, he doesn't other places in that book, explain things in a 163 00:09:25,900 --> 00:09:29,700 way that makes that statement not as ridiculous, right? 164 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:34,100 So he does go into what he means by racist and racist ideas and 165 00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:37,000 things like that. That so that's not as absurd of 166 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,800 a statement as it would be. Otherwise, that being said, I 167 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:45,100 don't agree with it, you know, because the premise of that 168 00:09:45,100 --> 00:09:50,100 entire book and the chapter in which he says that is that, you 169 00:09:50,100 --> 00:09:53,400 know, any kind of disparity between the racist is from 170 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,700 racism, right? A racist policy or something 171 00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:58,800 like that. That's not the whole story, you 172 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,200 know. There may be something to that 173 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,400 but that's not everything. Everything's not to it, right? 174 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:05,900 There may be other things going on. 175 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,700 What is black cultural essentialism? 176 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:16,600 That is believing that all black people think the same, right? 177 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,900 Not just think the same, but reacted, things, the same, 178 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,800 right? They do love the same, they feel 179 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,300 the same. They have the same desires and 180 00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:30,900 things like that because they've had the same experiences, right, 181 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,200 but that's not true. Hence, the organization. 182 00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:39,900 Black Thought which works to tell people that's not true and 183 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:43,000 show people, that's not true by highlighting. 184 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:49,000 A lot of black thinkers artist, what have you who aren't really 185 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,800 known in mainstream media, you know, because they don't fit in 186 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,300 with the centralized idea. What it means to be black. 187 00:10:57,300 --> 00:11:03,200 We also have a journal free, black dog, and we publish, those 188 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,300 are similar voices and voices, who may not be. 189 00:11:06,300 --> 00:11:10,300 Be black but are all about Viewpoint, diversity, and 190 00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:15,200 recognizing that there is diversity within Black America. 191 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,800 So so that's how I feel about it. 192 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:21,500 So I'm going to give you what a progressive. 193 00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:24,600 Would say, is a black essentialist Viewpoint. 194 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,700 Please give me a possible alternative that you have heard 195 00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:32,500 a, another black person take. It's important that we raise the 196 00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:36,700 minimum wage because people of color disproportionately Have 197 00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:40,900 lower incomes as a cause of results of their historical 198 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:43,500 mistreatment. Therefore, we need to do things 199 00:11:43,500 --> 00:11:47,000 like, raise the minimum wage and increase the amount of welfare 200 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,600 that the state distributes, what if anything is wrong with that? 201 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,500 Wow, that's a big question my friend. 202 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,000 Well, you know, there have been, you know, because of America's 203 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,700 history. There's a, we got off to a slow 204 00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:05,100 start or a late start, if you will. 205 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:08,800 So there is that, but But there's also the fact that 206 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,900 minimum wage was created, you know, to do the opposite of help 207 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,900 black people, right? Black, people were low-balling, 208 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:22,100 you know, everybody, you know, I'll do that for a lower price, 209 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,500 right? So they made the minimum wage, a 210 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:28,500 certain level so that people wouldn't see the incentive of 211 00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:32,400 going to the black people who at the time, could not afford the 212 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,300 best training, right? For whatever you're doing 213 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:37,300 Plumbing, carpentry? Or construction. 214 00:12:37,300 --> 00:12:40,200 What have you, right? They couldn't afford it best 215 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,700 training but the why people could. 216 00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:44,700 So if I have to pay seven bucks anyway, might as well, get the 217 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:49,000 guy who went to the best, you know, institution to learn these 218 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,500 things. Minimum wage was created to for 219 00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:55,700 anti-black purposes. You know. 220 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,900 Now I'm not a big fan of saying what this happened in 1920, so 221 00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:01,700 it's still happening. Now, I hate that. 222 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:05,400 I hate when people do that. So I don't want to say that 223 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,200 because you No, the bacon act, which is what I believe, what it 224 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:15,300 was called happened to stifle black upward Mobility. 225 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:20,900 Then it's doing so now. But what I'm trying to say is 226 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:23,900 that the minimum wage being hiked up. 227 00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:27,400 Isn't everything, right? Because now, I mean, you could 228 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,900 plausibly have less jobs because the minimum wage is higher. 229 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:37,300 So people are hiring different people or less people So one 230 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:40,600 person's doing more jobs than he would have in the first place, 231 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:47,200 because his employer, you know, can't pay more people, right? 232 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,300 So I mean, you could be, you know, the unemployment could 233 00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:56,500 rise because of, you know, raising the minimum wage. 234 00:13:56,500 --> 00:14:00,400 So it's not as easy as if we raise this black, people will 235 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,900 make more money. It's not that cut and dry. 236 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:07,500 And this is why I think the topic of black essentialism or 237 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:11,700 woman essentialism or men. Essentialism is so important 238 00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:15,000 because it's so frequently. Used to Swindle people. 239 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,900 It's like look, I'm not doing this, you know, because I like 240 00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:20,200 the money and fame of being a popular politician. 241 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,900 I'm doing it on behalf of all these people and so now I 242 00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,000 basically have no constraint. I mean I'm doing this for the 243 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,300 greater good. So now I don't care what the 244 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:32,500 consequences are going to be, because I have this great ideal 245 00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:36,800 in And and then you school choice was the other one where 246 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:41,200 it's like all the progressives who say, they are very dedicated 247 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,500 to increasing the well-being of blacks. 248 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,200 They are so anti school choice. While the average black person 249 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,500 is very Pro. School choice. 250 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,800 That one is just so predictable. Well, let's can we talk about 251 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:53,900 that for a second? Please? 252 00:14:54,700 --> 00:15:01,100 Because I have some questions. I like to think I'm as informed 253 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:03,500 as I possibly can be, but I'm not. 254 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,300 I'm only one person and I'm trying to figure out why 255 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:12,100 progressives would be against school choice and I'm trying to 256 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:15,400 figure out what the reasoning behind that is, I have yet to 257 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,100 hear a good one. I have yet to hear a convincing 258 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,700 argument to be anti school choice so I guess I'm 259 00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:27,000 interviewing you now. What is the problem progressives 260 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,200 have with it? The primary arguments would come 261 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,100 from SOS save our schools. Is the progressive organization, 262 00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:40,200 who is anti school choice. What they say is by allowing 263 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,200 school choice, is, we need to put it in quotes because it's 264 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,700 really not a choice. People want to go to a school, 265 00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:49,000 that's closer to them, by allowing for Choice. 266 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,800 All you're really doing is allowing the rich people to fund 267 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,100 their own schools while taking money away from schools, that 268 00:15:57,100 --> 00:16:03,000 have mostly blacks, mostly Hispanics and mostly people at 269 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,900 lower, Incomes. So by allowing for choice, you 270 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:09,700 decrease, the probability of poor people. 271 00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:14,100 Getting a getting their foot in the door intellectually, I 272 00:16:14,108 --> 00:16:16,800 economically. It also allows you to ignore 273 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,100 them because you have the choice to go wherever you want and you 274 00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:24,400 end up ignoring people. Whereas if you you know you are 275 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,300 coercing them into going to the school with truancy laws and 276 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,100 property taxes, but by forcing them to do. 277 00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:33,500 So they now have an incentive to work to make that school better. 278 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:38,400 That was the argument that the gentleman put forth in the show 279 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,700 blackish. It was a whole episode dedicated 280 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:48,000 to this white idiot. You don't want school choice. 281 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,800 Doesn't he know that he has to be in this school? 282 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,100 Because then he has an incentive to make the school better. 283 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,300 That is my Steel Man of the progressive argument. 284 00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:58,300 Okay? All right. 285 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,900 Yeah but that's very common, it's the textbook imperialist 286 00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:06,900 mindset And I coerced people for for their own good and if it 287 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:09,500 were really for their own good, you could persuade them to do 288 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:13,700 it. You said you said I critique 289 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,599 academic anti-racism not because I'm against anti racism but 290 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,900 because some of its implementations disempower and 291 00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:23,800 infantilized marginalized people, what does that mean? 292 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,500 Well, how much time do you have? I mean I literally wrote a whole 293 00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:32,700 book answering that question but I'll try my best to summarize it 294 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,600 When I say I'm not against anti-racism, I mean that in the 295 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,400 original etymological, meaning of that term, I'm Against 296 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,700 Racism. But we all know that anti-racism 297 00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:47,100 and this day and age, means something a little different, 298 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,900 something more, akin to what's called critical social justice, 299 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:54,700 right? And and all the tenants that go 300 00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:57,800 with that, which I believe are disempowering for several 301 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:03,400 reasons, a, it assumes that people of color. 302 00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:07,500 I have no agency whatsoever, you know, that they are Perpetual 303 00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:11,600 victims, they can't succeed, they won't succeed in this 304 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,100 system. So the system has to go. 305 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:19,800 It also essential izes, as we just talked about, you know, all 306 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,500 black students are the same. They have the same problems and 307 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:24,800 things like that, they're, they're, they're, they're marked 308 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,100 before they even walk into the door of the classroom, right? 309 00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:33,400 So there's that it ignores rhetoric for my field and 310 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,900 Circular, I think it ignores the whole point of Kairos, what we 311 00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:40,200 talked about earlier, audience consideration and and things 312 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:45,500 like that, because it's all about the lived experience of 313 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:50,700 the student or the, you know, professor of color and asking 314 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:54,900 questions asking for elaboration pointing out where their story 315 00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:57,600 doesn't seem to make sense that's considered a personal 316 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:02,000 attack, which brings me to the fact that language is considered 317 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,000 violence. Now Right. 318 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,200 So there's that as well. All of this. 319 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:14,700 What all of this does is this Empower students or people of 320 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:18,300 color, because you're, it's learned helplessness, right? 321 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:21,100 And you are infantilizing them by thinking that they can't 322 00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:25,600 figure it out themselves. They are going to crawl into the 323 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,700 fetal position and weep you know at the sight of a white person 324 00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:32,400 about to ask them a question, right? 325 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,800 And And things like that. So so that's how it infantilizes 326 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,500 and disempowers. Dr. Wilfred Reilly was on my 327 00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:44,800 show and he said, there are three ways you could look at 328 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,200 differences between groups, critical theory disparities are 329 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,700 the result of discrimination biology. 330 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,300 The race has evolved in different climates and 331 00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:59,200 culturalism people within those different demographics have 332 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,100 embraced different cultural ideas, which of those three do 333 00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:06,800 you think is most accurate to explain disparities between 334 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,200 Asians blacks Mexicans? White's. 335 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:15,900 Whoever mostly a third one, the culture one because each culture 336 00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:20,700 has what I call a a discourse capital D as opposed to 337 00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,100 lowercase D. James G is associate, social 338 00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:27,200 Linguistics Professor who capitalize, the D to 339 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,900 distinguish, it from just regular conversation of things 340 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:32,100 like that. At this course, is a set of 341 00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:36,700 value attitudes and beliefs write as well as you know, 342 00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:38,500 expectations for how you should look. 343 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,300 Dress sound all these different things that that is discourse 344 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:46,100 and certain values attitudes and beliefs are more conducive to 345 00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:51,900 success in, you know, a society like ours, then others, right? 346 00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:57,900 So I would, if I had only those three choices, I would pick the 347 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,800 culturalist choice now. That doesn't mean everything's 348 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,100 perfect. It doesn't mean there are 349 00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:07,100 policies that there aren't policy that could be reformed, 350 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,300 right? I'm not. 351 00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:09,500 I'm not. That. 352 00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:15,200 But I'm also saying that culture is a big part of it and to many 353 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,100 people don't want to mention that they don't want to talk 354 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:20,000 about. Can you give me an example of 355 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,000 cultural ideas that either whites or blacks and Mexicans 356 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:28,200 may have that holds them back systematically. 357 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:37,900 We We see a lot of people saying that you know, this group 358 00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:39,900 studies more than this group, right? 359 00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:44,300 Asians study more, you know, because they value education and 360 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:47,600 what it can get to you and then why people value it too. 361 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,900 But not as much and black people are like, yeah, education is 362 00:21:50,908 --> 00:21:53,800 important but it's not the most important thing, you know. 363 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,800 Yeah. I mean, I in my household, my 364 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,900 parents cared about the Greys, we gotten things. 365 00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:07,000 Like that, but not like my, my other peers. 366 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,600 Right. And I thought it was a good 367 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,000 thing and to an extent I still do because, you know, no matter 368 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,100 what grade I got, you know, they, they love me right there. 369 00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:19,900 They're very, they're very open, right? 370 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,900 And and, you know, they they were, they were leaning enough 371 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:28,600 to allow me to discover my own path and things like that. 372 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,300 So I'm happy about that. But that also reflects You know, 373 00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:35,000 in my family. Anyway, I'm not speaking for 374 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,100 every black family or every black person or anything like 375 00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:42,100 that reading wasn't as emphasized, you know, perhaps as 376 00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:45,200 it was in other. In other households, I think 377 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,200 that didn't stop me. I mean, I love reading anyway, 378 00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:51,600 you know, so I did it, but I didn't do it because my parents 379 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,500 were pushing and I did because I wanted to read, right? 380 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,100 So I mean, I guess that is kind of a thing, you know, from what 381 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,400 I'm seeing with surveys and things like that. 382 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,300 Anyway, I'm not a social scientist. 383 00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:07,900 I don't have the stats in front of me or anything like that from 384 00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,800 but from what I see, right? That seems to be the trend, you 385 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,300 know, and I think that may be a cultural thing. 386 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:22,700 So I want to give you what could be a an alternative thesis that 387 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,400 someone might say. When trying to critique social 388 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,300 justice activism walk me through, I want to start really 389 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:33,100 Elementary. How would you respond to the The 390 00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:38,300 idea that men are 50% of the population yet 95% of those in 391 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:40,700 prison. Therefore Society is sexist 392 00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:42,700 against men. What would I be missing if I 393 00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:46,900 held that worldview? Wow. 394 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:52,300 Well, the different social dynamics of men and women, how 395 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:56,100 men and women are socialized differently. 396 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,600 To be a man is to be a little more aggressive, right? 397 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,000 So that aggressiveness can go overboard especially when you're 398 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,600 trying to prove your manhood, right? 399 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,500 And, you know, it's like a, you know, self-fulfilling prophecy, 400 00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:15,000 I guess, you know, if we're not Really prophecy. 401 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,700 That's not what I want to say. But you know, it leads to more 402 00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:21,400 incidents where you need to be aggressive, right? 403 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,100 So to the point where you don't even question anymore, to be a 404 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:27,500 guy is to be aggressive. So hey, I need money. 405 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:29,000 You know what? I'm going to go take it. 406 00:24:29,700 --> 00:24:32,900 You know, I can do that. I'm a dude, I'm supposed to and 407 00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:36,500 that's very simplistic, but I think it's something along those 408 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:38,400 lines. People are socialized 409 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,700 differently. The biological differences. 410 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:44,600 I can't really speak to. I mean, I have my Pumpkins and 411 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,300 things like that. Given the neurochemical 412 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:53,800 differences, you know, between men and women, but I am not a 413 00:24:53,808 --> 00:24:56,300 scientist by any means. So I'm not going to talk about 414 00:24:56,300 --> 00:25:01,200 that but I can't talk about how men and women, boys and girls 415 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:04,900 are socialized differently and how that may come into play as 416 00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:08,600 well. So you talk about Mono, causal 417 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,100 explanations of racial gaps, don't hold up to scrutiny and we 418 00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:15,500 should disabuse ourselves of the mistaken notion that they do. 419 00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:19,800 So, Indian Americans and white Americans have very different 420 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:25,200 incomes on the Indian Americans are like almost 45% higher what 421 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,600 are possible, different possible, explanations than 422 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,200 America's racist against white sand pro-indian. 423 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,800 I don't know, maybe well II, Don't really know the answer 424 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,900 that question II do know that even West African and Jamaican 425 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,100 immigrants are doing quite well, right? 426 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:49,300 So what excuse does, you know, the African-American have, 427 00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:51,700 right? Doesn't that prove that racism 428 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:54,800 isn't a thing. I think those cultures are 429 00:25:54,808 --> 00:25:57,300 coming with their own values, attitudes, and beliefs, and 430 00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:01,900 those values attitudes, and beliefs affect how well they do 431 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,500 in education and then in their professional lives. 432 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,900 And it's more conducive to that kind of success. 433 00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:15,700 Perhaps, you know now Because of the West African in Jamaican, 434 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,700 Right? Caribbean success in America, a 435 00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:23,800 lot of African-Americans have resorted to calling themselves a 436 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,700 dose African descendants of slaves, you know? 437 00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:30,500 And that's a different Dynamic. So we have a different history 438 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:33,900 in our history has stifled us, you know, but you are history 439 00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:38,300 hasn't that's also not true West Africa was by no means a Haven. 440 00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:42,200 You know during the colonial period as it Caribbean the same 441 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,700 way, there is Everything in the Caribbean, right? 442 00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:51,200 So that's not an excuse either. I think what the excuse is is 443 00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:55,000 well as a outlook on life, right? 444 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,500 That says, okay, if I work hard, if I do this that and the other 445 00:26:57,500 --> 00:27:02,400 thing I will succeed, as opposed to, if I work hard, I won't 446 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,500 succeed because the world is against me, right? 447 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,000 If I can simplify the differences as much as possible. 448 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:15,200 That's it, you know just a a Positive outlook versus a not so 449 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,100 positive outlook. It may just be that simple. 450 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,500 I think that's really important because if my worldview is well 451 00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:26,400 Congress needs to get their act together or else I'm screwed. 452 00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:29,300 Well, yeah, Congress does need to get their act together. 453 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:33,200 But also if I just sit back and take that, I'm not working to 454 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,900 increase the amount of skills and on-the-job experience that I 455 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,000 have to increase my knowledge to increase my Capital to give 456 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,100 myself a brighter future. So, if all I'm doing is sitting 457 00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:45,300 back and saying, well, Unfortunately, you know, Richard 458 00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:47,100 Spencer still isn't banned on Twitter. 459 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,500 So I mean there's not really any progress we can make that is 460 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:54,800 it's so vitally important that that narrative I think stop 461 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,500 being promoted, you have anything else on that before we 462 00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:01,900 go to the next issue? No I think. 463 00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:04,400 Yeah I asked a social justice activist. 464 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,700 I said look I'm having this guy from free black thought on. 465 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:11,900 Send me a video that I should watch to really get an idea or a 466 00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:16,000 small Action into your social justice worldview. 467 00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:19,700 So they sent me this one minute, 25 second video. 468 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:21,800 Let's watch it. I'd like you to comment, please. 469 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:24,800 Okay, there's a question. I often ask when I'm in front of 470 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,900 a mixed-race group and I asked the black people in the room, a 471 00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:32,900 kind of rhetorical question. How often have you attempted to 472 00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:37,500 give a white person feedback on their inevitable and often 473 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:41,700 unaware racist assumptions or behaviors and have that go? 474 00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:49,300 Well for you Never number two response rarely and I'll never 475 00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:51,200 forget asking a group. Okay. 476 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,300 So what if you could just give us feedback on our inevitable 477 00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:58,300 and often unaware racist assumptions and behaviors. 478 00:28:58,300 --> 00:29:02,300 And I'll never forget this black men raising his hand and saying 479 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:08,500 it would be revolutionary. And, you know, just like this, 480 00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:10,000 take that. And I just want all the white 481 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,500 people to just take that in Revolutionary that we would 482 00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:17,300 receive the feedback with Grace, reflect, and seek to change our 483 00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:20,100 Behavior. That's how difficult we are. 484 00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:25,400 That's how big a a-holes we are. Yeah. 485 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,600 But on the other hand, you know, that's not a very tall order, 486 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,100 really? That? 487 00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:34,300 That's a revolution. But we can't get there from the 488 00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:38,400 current Paradigm that says, only Only mean people who want to 489 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,100 hurt others based on race ever could do so. 490 00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,300 So we just have to change what we understand. 491 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:50,200 It means to perpetrate racism. Anything you want on that clip? 492 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,500 Where do we start? Where do we start? 493 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:57,700 Well, I mean it's true that, you know, people don't like talking 494 00:29:57,700 --> 00:30:01,700 about race, you know, the whole when I heard of Robyn D'Angelo 495 00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:04,100 originally and the term, right? White fragility. 496 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:05,900 I thought I knew what she was talking about. 497 00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:09,900 There are people who you know why people who are, you know, 498 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,900 they don't want to touch that. Yeah, they're going to back away 499 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:15,500 from that and they don't want to deal with it, you know? 500 00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:18,000 And when you point out something that's They did, that may have 501 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,300 been unsavory or well, you know, racist to a degree. 502 00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:22,900 They can't deal with that either. 503 00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:27,200 There are people out there like that, what the issue I have with 504 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,300 the Angelo is the issue I had with her Embrace of critical 505 00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:34,300 social justice, which basically says that would literally says, 506 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,500 the question isn't did racism occur is how did it occur in 507 00:30:37,508 --> 00:30:42,500 that situation? And if anything that makes white 508 00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:46,400 people, comfortable is suspect and lines like that. 509 00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:52,100 Make it so that something is always already racist, right? 510 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,100 So it's one thing to talk to somebody and have them react in 511 00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:57,000 a certain way and say, okay that's what you're doing, you're 512 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,800 doing that. It's another thing to say white 513 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,300 people do that right? You know it's essentialism 514 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,300 right? It's just - essentialism. 515 00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:11,900 So that's the issue I have with that mostly II. 516 00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:14,400 Get what she's saying to a degree but then when you read 517 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,600 the rest of her stuff and put it in context, it's not so great. 518 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,400 So when it comes to the difficulties discussing race, I 519 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:30,500 think, Eric the Attorney, General, The Fast and Furious 520 00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:33,400 guy classically said, well whites are frankly cowards, when 521 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,100 it comes to race, is there anything that we're not getting 522 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:41,500 that's going on behind closed? Doors that what we're just not 523 00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:44,500 aware of that. We've actively not been willing 524 00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:47,900 to discuss. Is there anything that you guys 525 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:50,000 want to say? I don't know how else to say 526 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,400 that. But well, I mean it's there's an 527 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,200 inherent essentialism in that in that question. 528 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,300 Exactly. Yeah we're not the Borg is what 529 00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:02,400 I want. You know, we do, I don't know 530 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,000 what, you know, other people are thinking because they share my 531 00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:11,800 skin tone, but when that person said that, you know why people 532 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:17,600 are basically cowards When it comes to race, I mean, sometimes 533 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,400 that's true, but other times they're just like, I don't, you 534 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,400 know, I'm going to say the wrong thing, you know, I'm definitely 535 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,200 going to say the wrong thing and it's not going to be taken. 536 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,600 Well, well, it might be taken. Well, there might be somebody 537 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,800 who has a once I have a good faith conversation about things. 538 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,600 When you do say something, quote unquote wrong, there are other 539 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,100 people out there who, you know, believe basically that words are 540 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:48,900 violence, intentions, don't matter, and therefore, 541 00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:53,300 everything is potentially wrong. Those people are out there, 542 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,400 right? And they're, they seem to be 543 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,800 gaining more ground with every passing day. 544 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,900 So I there's a difference between cow It is an 545 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:06,600 apprehension, you know, there's a difference between, you know, 546 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,200 being afraid of doing something and being cautious, you know. 547 00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:14,500 So I think we need to make those distinctions but yeah, sure. 548 00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:17,400 There are people who are, you know, cowards when it comes to 549 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,600 this subject. Sure. 550 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,100 But there are other people who want to do something but just 551 00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:26,000 don't know how And I didn't mean to be an essentialist and the 552 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,100 question, if you didn't have a website called free black 553 00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:31,400 thought it never would have crossed my mind, ask you that? 554 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,800 Yeah. Eric Holder is the attorney 555 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,700 general's name. Got got caught sending guns to 556 00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:40,600 of the Mexican drug cartel in operation, Fast and Furious. 557 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,500 Nice guy. Okay, one more thing. 558 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:45,500 On two more things on this issue. 559 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,700 What is your thesis in the book? A critique of anti racism in 560 00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:56,000 rhetoric and composition. My thesis is that, and this is 561 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,900 before, I really dug into critical social justice and 562 00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:00,500 critical race Theory and things like that. 563 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:02,800 I was aware of critical race Theory, but I didn't want to 564 00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:06,600 touch that explicitly because I thought, you know, I could do 565 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:12,900 this in a broader way, right? And my thesis was basically that 566 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:20,100 The anti-racist in my field. Anyway, are 22 dedicated to 567 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:21,900 what's called prefigurative politics. 568 00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:27,800 Prefigured of politics is when you try to create the world, you 569 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,699 want to see and you kind of live that. 570 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,000 Well, Occupy Wall Street was prefigurative politics that the 571 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,400 camp, they weren't just camping out. 572 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,600 They were they were having meetings, they free libraries 573 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,699 and things like that. This, that was the world. 574 00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:46,199 They wanted to see. Well, it's possible to get so 575 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:49,400 into that world that you create a bubble, right? 576 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,800 And you're not concerned with the outside world, any Or, or 577 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,500 you don't see the outside world. The whole reality is your little 578 00:34:56,500 --> 00:35:00,300 bubble of critical social justice, right? 579 00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:02,900 And you're not, you're not seeing anything else and you 580 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:06,500 want to stay there. And if you do acknowledge the 581 00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:09,800 outside world, you know, you're trying to push that what's 582 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,200 inside that bubble onto it, to, to cursive lie, right? 583 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,500 So, so that's my, my, my biggest complaint. 584 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,200 My, the biggest part of my thesis is that people are Are 585 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,900 playing make-believe when they should be addressing reality. 586 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,700 And if they address reality, they'll see, you know, that not 587 00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:33,600 everything is about race, they'll see that somebody asking 588 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,900 a question just because they're white, you know, it doesn't mean 589 00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:42,200 that's a personal attack on you. It's a question right there. 590 00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:48,400 It's not inherently racist to teach students of color Standard 591 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,600 English, right? And the reason why they think it 592 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,400 is, Because in their bubble, there bubble isn't American 593 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,600 society, right? American society is a place 594 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,600 where Standard English can come in handy, right? 595 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,800 It's not a sign that you've been oppressed is a sign that you 596 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,300 have a pragmatic. Sensibility. 597 00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:16,100 And this dialect may come in handy one day. 598 00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:21,200 There is a professor in my field who went as far as to say you 599 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,400 know black students who Want to learn Standard English and don't 600 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,500 want to just speak in black, English are being selfish and 601 00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:33,500 immature because what they're doing is learning the skill that 602 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:38,000 would help them succeed in this world, he doesn't like, right, 603 00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:40,800 the people inside the bubble, don't like that world. 604 00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:43,200 So if you leave the bubble you're successful, you're 605 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,500 maintaining the status quo, that's a bad thing, you know. 606 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,300 So so that's basically the gist of the book. 607 00:36:53,700 --> 00:36:58,300 One of the recent presidential candidates that had a lot of 608 00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:01,900 sympathy on both sides of the aisle was Marianne Williamson. 609 00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:05,800 I'm only going to play a small portion of this video, but talk 610 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,600 to me about the mindset and the mentality of someone who would 611 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,700 do something like this and what you would want to say to Miss 612 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:24,000 Williamson on behalf of myself and on behalf of my country, To 613 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:30,900 you and all African-Americans. From the beginning of our 614 00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:37,800 nation's history. In honor of your ancestors and 615 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:46,600 on behalf of your children. Please hear this from my heart. 616 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,400 Okay. She goes on to ask all the 617 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,400 whites in the audience to say a prayer apologizing to all the 618 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,100 blacks and the audience. What would you say if anything 619 00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:01,400 to such a mindset? Okay, I need to ask some 620 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:07,000 questions here. So she was she was a telling the 621 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,200 white people to repeat after her to black people. 622 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,900 Yes. And in the video, you can see 623 00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:16,700 they are asked to put their hands on the blacks in the 624 00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:19,900 audience. I would hightail it out of 625 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:21,200 there. Yeah. 626 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,100 Yes. I would hightail it the F out of 627 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:25,000 there. You know. 628 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,900 I'm not going to be part of your cult here. 629 00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:28,600 Okay. I'm not going to, I'm not going 630 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,000 to be the Catalyst for one of your rituals or anything like 631 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,400 that. What's more like I don't need 632 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,100 your apology. You know what I need is for you 633 00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:43,500 to get out of my way, right? The the the issue in the 60s, 634 00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:47,900 with the Civil Rights Movement wasn't, you know, that classical 635 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,100 Rule values. You know, we're bad is that we 636 00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:55,000 weren't allowed to participate in those, right? 637 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,900 So we weren't the Country Wasn't living up to those values. 638 00:38:57,900 --> 00:38:59,600 That was the problem not the values. 639 00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:04,500 Yeah, you know. So as long as we're allowed, as 640 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:08,400 long as that door to classical liberal values is enclosed, I'm 641 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,400 good, just get, don't don't apologize. 642 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,400 To me, just don't be racist and get out of my way, right? 643 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,900 Let me have life, liberty, and the pursuit. 644 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,400 You to happiness like everybody else? 645 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,200 That's what I want. I don't need a mass apology, 646 00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:23,900 right? That's weird. 647 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,500 I don't even it's so difficult for me to talk to the mindset of 648 00:39:29,508 --> 00:39:33,500 someone who judges people explicitly, by the color of 649 00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:35,400 their skin. I mean, a lot of us sort of walk 650 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,500 around on people like me on the right. 651 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,300 I'm always a little on eggshells. 652 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,900 I care so much about the economic freedom aspect that I 653 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:46,600 don't want to be called. Sexist xenophobic a racist. 654 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:51,300 So but then people, Like this explicitly judge all people 655 00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:52,900 based on the color of their skin. 656 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,200 Why do you think it is that the self-described anti-racists are 657 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:05,200 so explicitly racist Well, that's a, that's a big one, man. 658 00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:11,700 A lot of people, you know, and I'm speaking from experience and 659 00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:15,400 things like that they are fine with black people. 660 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:20,000 As long as those black people are, you know, you know, beneath 661 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,900 them and in some way, you know, so okay you're black, you have 662 00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:27,200 all these, you know, negative aspects, no fault of yours but 663 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,100 you have them and you need me to kind of save. 664 00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:34,300 Or things like that. We're the essentialism is 665 00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:39,100 parent-child, right? You know, so there's that aspect 666 00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:43,700 to it, you know, and II know people like that and I know 667 00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:47,200 people who have had a problem with me being you know, their 668 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,400 intellectual equal or more so right. 669 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,100 And I guarantee you my know for a fact, some but I guarantee 670 00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:57,500 you, many of them probably have black lives matter science in 671 00:40:57,508 --> 00:41:02,000 there long. Right so and are uncomfortable 672 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,600 with you know black people who are on par with them. 673 00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:11,800 So there is that secondly you know some people are just they 674 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,900 just drank the Kool-Aid, you know, they've been told by, you 675 00:41:14,900 --> 00:41:19,000 know, mainstream media, you know it's through images, through 676 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,300 talk, all kinds of things. What it means to be a black 677 00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:25,100 person, what a black person looks like an axe like and 678 00:41:25,100 --> 00:41:26,600 sounds like and things like that. 679 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,100 So they're just they've been Shin, the two essential eyes, 680 00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:34,300 you know. And and that's there to, you 681 00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:39,800 know, the fact that, you know, 80% of black Americans are lower 682 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,100 middle class or higher, right? That you wouldn't think that 683 00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:48,600 because we're defined as that 20%, you know that that that 684 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,700 isn't there, right? The 20% that struggling. 685 00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:58,400 We're all that now, right? So, It's very frustrating that 686 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,100 that happens. But a lot of people are that 687 00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:06,500 they're either uncomfortable with, you know, black equality, 688 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,400 right? Or they just don't know any 689 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,900 better. What do you think is the most 690 00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:14,800 important contribution of the work of Glenn Lowry? 691 00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:21,000 The most important contribution. Yeah there are a lot more give 692 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,800 us a few. Well he's honest he's a black 693 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,900 man who is honest about what's going on, right? 694 00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:32,100 There's a narrative that he refuses to follow, he's going to 695 00:42:32,107 --> 00:42:35,600 follow this stats, he's going to follow the science, right? 696 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,900 He's going to follow her research and that's that. 697 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,000 He's a fair-minded critical thinker, right? 698 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,500 And that it doesn't, if the stats say something that he 699 00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:49,200 doesn't like too bad, Right. You know the if the stats say 700 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,200 something that is - that is sad and depressing about black 701 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,600 people too bad, you know, you have to be reality-based, you 702 00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:00,200 have to look at, you can't change reality if you refuse to 703 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,500 acknowledge reality, right? So he acknowledges reality and 704 00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:07,800 he says what needs to be said. And he's not afraid to say it 705 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,100 and his contribution is not just that but modeling what it looks 706 00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:15,700 like to not be afraid to say that, you know, to to be called 707 00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:18,300 all kinds of names. White people and black people 708 00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:21,500 and to keep going. So those are his contributions. 709 00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:27,500 I once spoke to a gentleman who I went to Hebrew school with and 710 00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:30,900 I asked him, you know, we were always told to watch out for all 711 00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:34,500 this anti-Semitism in this terrible country called America 712 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,100 and were in our mid-20s now. And we don't have a single 713 00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:41,400 significant anti-semitic incident that we can actually 714 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,200 report not that it doesn't exist. 715 00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,100 But we're we were told it's everywhere and we haven't 716 00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:49,900 experienced it and he goes. Yeah, Zionism thrives off of 717 00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:52,400 Jewish and security. So in other words, he's saying, 718 00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:56,500 That there are leaders within this movement that benefit at 719 00:43:56,500 --> 00:44:00,600 the expense of the group, they claim to represent by keeping 720 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,200 them insecure and that is the actual goal. 721 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,800 Candace, Owens says she sees this with BLM, a lot of other 722 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,000 organizations do this, is this something you see that is one of 723 00:44:12,008 --> 00:44:14,700 the biggest issues that there's actually an economic incentive 724 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,500 to increase the amount of insecurity. 725 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,800 Oh, definitely, I mean, this is an industry now. 726 00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:24,300 Yeah, I it's an inn. Mystery and, you know, if you 727 00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:28,000 make your money on black and security, you need to maintain 728 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:35,000 black and security candy once a department like right branch of 729 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,000 government, you know, based on anti-racism that strongly 730 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,700 implies that he was, you know, that that's not a ad hoc thing, 731 00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:44,900 right? That's a kind of a permanent 732 00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:47,700 thing. So he basically, you know, he 733 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,700 seems to be saying that Racers and will never go away. 734 00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:56,300 He doesn't want it to go away, or whatever you have places, 735 00:44:56,300 --> 00:45:00,700 like, you pin them up. If I'm not mistaken, giving mbas 736 00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,400 in diversity, equity and inclusion, right? 737 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,300 And anti-racism and things like that. 738 00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:09,900 Now, in order for that degree to make sense to be lucrative, you 739 00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:13,500 got to have racism, you know, or discrimination, you know. 740 00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:17,500 So if that goes away, that person is have a job. so, I mean 741 00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:24,000 it's that's a But we have all kinds of different takes on that 742 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,800 woke ink. I think it's one, this, the 743 00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:32,200 anti-racism as an industry. I'm trying to think of all the 744 00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:36,100 terms. I've heard to describe this, but 745 00:45:36,100 --> 00:45:38,900 I guess the point is, there are various turns because, you know, 746 00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:40,200 people are starting to open their eyes. 747 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,000 To this right there is money to be made. 748 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,500 I know people the last thing they want is for races to go 749 00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:46,700 away. All right? 750 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,100 That's their bread and butter. They're people my field like 751 00:45:49,100 --> 00:45:51,800 that. The last thing they It's racism 752 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,000 to go away and when they feel like there hasn't been a racist 753 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,900 incident, they're going to pretend there was one. 754 00:45:57,500 --> 00:45:59,800 I've seen this with my own eyes. Yeah. 755 00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:03,500 So so yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't I was talking about 756 00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:07,400 originally but there is a lot of material on free black 757 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,600 thought.com. If someone wants to start, they 758 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,100 want to get an introduction to what happens here, where, where 759 00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:16,000 can they go? Is there something specific you 760 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:21,100 recommend reading? I would not specific but I I 761 00:46:21,100 --> 00:46:24,200 would go to the journal. I will go to the journal. 762 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:30,300 Look at all the, the titles, the topics, right? 763 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,200 Take a look at those to really see what we're about the 764 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:34,400 compendium. There it is. 765 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,500 Yes, the journal. And this is that article right 766 00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:39,800 there. How would black America fair if 767 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,900 Progressive got their way? That's, hey, read that man. 768 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,500 Rehab that is next on my list. All right. 769 00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:52,600 Final bonus question. What is your favorite sentence 770 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,500 in the voluntarist handbook? My favorites. 771 00:46:57,500 --> 00:47:00,900 It's is in the volunteers handbook is in the introduction. 772 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,100 And it says, should I achieve my ends in life violently with 773 00:47:06,100 --> 00:47:09,400 threats or voluntarily with persuasion? 774 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:15,000 So, I like that question. Because, well, it implies how 775 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:20,900 important rhetoric is Right rhetoric and the ability to use 776 00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:26,200 your words, staves off physical violence, right? 777 00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:29,100 Darrell Davis said it the best if we're talking, we're not 778 00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:33,400 fighting, right? So if I can My words to deal 779 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,000 with the situation instead of physical coercion or something 780 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,200 like that. Then we're you know we're moving 781 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,100 in the right direction. The website is free black 782 00:47:44,100 --> 00:47:46,800 thought.com. I'll have links to that along 783 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,100 with the journal in the description below. 784 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,400 Thanks to everyone for watching Keith and I don't tread on 785 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,500 anyone in the libertarian Institute, dr. 786 00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:55,900 Smith thank you so much for your time. 787 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,000 Thank you.