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Welcome to Keith's night. 
Don't tread on anyone today. 

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We have Bryan Caplan. 
A professor of Economics at 

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George Mason University blogger,
for econ log. 

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And one of the world's leading 
Advocates of free immigration. 

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He has an excellent new book, 
open borders, the science, and 

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ethics of immigration. 
He wrote it with Zach. 

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Weiner Smith who did the 
cartoons. 

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I really had a blast reading 
this. 

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I can tell you to be totally 
honest. 

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I learned more on page. 
What was it page? 

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165? 
I learned. 

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That I did studying in school 
for five years. 

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Mr. Kaplan. 
Thank you so much for taking the

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time today. 
Great pleasure to be here. 

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I wish I remember what Pete was 
on page 165. 

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Okay. 
Well, that is my incentive for 

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everyone else to buy it. 
But it's where you are basically

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saying you summarize utilitarian
egalitarian. 

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Oh, yes. 
Yes, corrina's in one single 

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page. 
So it it's definitely worth the 

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read. 
Uh, mr. 

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Kaplan, when you advocate for 
free market capitalism. 

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What does that mean? 
Free market capitalism well, so,

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we've got this idea of 
capitalism, which is basically 

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all the countries where 
government doesn't run, almost 

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everything. 
And then free market. 

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Capitalism is the version of 
capitalism or government does a 

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lot less. 
Of course. 

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It's a slogan. 
So, as to where you want to draw

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the line at it with this video, 
if you want to call Hong Kong 

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and Singapore to be free market 
capitalism, everything else to 

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be less, you could do it that 
way or you could say the straw, 

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the wine, it At a higher point. 
And so there are no such 

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countries on Earth right now for
me, is a slogan. 

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And so it's as long as you're 
clear on exactly where saying, 

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it doesn't much matter where you
draw the line. 

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But, you know, the idea of an 
economic system where you 

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actually live up to the ideal of
having a separation of economy 

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and state or you're somewhere in
that ballpark. 

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That's what I would have in 
mind. 

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And what is the moral difference
between saying having the 

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state-run an industry and In 
private Enterprise. 

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What if I vote for someone who 
can really give me a lot of 

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benefits to the state? 
So, what's the mall difference 

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between them? 
Well, there are a few moral 

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differences between them. 
So most obviously, if it's a 

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government-owned industry, then 
people have to contribute to 

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that industry whether they like 
it or not. 

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So for example, if I don't want 
to patronize Amazon, I just 

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don't do it. 
I if I don't want to patronize 

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the university system of the 
state of Virginia is Long, as I 

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live in Virginia, I have to do 
it because it comes out of 

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taxes. 
So that's it. 

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Will one obvious small 
difference, is the 

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non-consensual nature of support
for government. 

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Unless you just want to say 
counts as consent just to live 

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within the borders of the 
country. 

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Although that's your standard 
for consent. 

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Then you can go further say how 
about just knowing you didn't 

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leave the planet so you can send
it to whatever happened on 

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Earth, doesn't seem too good on 
terms of other more differences,

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of course. 
Also morally matters how good 

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the consequences are. 
So I think A lot of evidence 

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that the actual performance of 
privates in a private business 

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is far superior to that of 
nonprofits in general and 

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governments on nonprofits in 
particular. 

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Sure, you know a, an article 
called the anarcho-capitalist 

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frequently asked questions. 
Are you an anarcho-capitalist 

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and why? 
So, I am an anarcho-capitalist 

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but not the crazy kind. 
So the crazy kind is the person 

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who says, if I push a button, 
everything will be great. 

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You will immediately transition 
everything wonderful or 

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alternately someone who says, I 
don't care what happens. 

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And I think those are both naive
and silly views. 

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However, The idea is that it is 
not only logically possible, but

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it's feasible to have a world 
where what we think of as the 

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basic functions of government 
are carried on by Private 

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Industry. 
I think that makes a lot of 

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sense and the way that I usually
think about it is just say, all 

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right, man. 
Let's start with the smallest 

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government, you can imagine. 
All right. 

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Now, let's dial it down, 5% 
more. 

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Can you imagine that, right? 
So, traditionally, there's been 

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an idea that government has to 
admit him have a monopoly over 

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police courts and the law. 
And we have, I meet someone who 

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thinks that I said. 
Well, we're already below that 

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because there's a lot of private
police. 

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Right now fact, there's more 
private security than there are 

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police officers and that is 
states. 

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There are a lot of private 
courts. 

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So, any kind of arbitration 
system, and that's a big deal. 

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Right? 
And there's a lot of private 

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law. 
So arbitrators often will not 

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use the law of the government 
with their under, but they make 

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up their own rules, by course, a
credit card companies, or their 

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own set of rules or insurance 
companies. 

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When there's dispute between 
their clients. 

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They have their own set of 
rules. 

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So just to say, it's clearly not
true that we need to have a 

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monopoly over these things 
because we don't have a monopoly

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and almost no one is complaining
about it. 

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And I said, okay. 
So once we accept that, we don't

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need him a lot Built My Monopoly
and we don't have one. 

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Then could we have even less? 
And I have a long lecture, I go 

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over ways, you can do less and 
then, you know, normally, you 

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can talk people down to a very 
low level. 

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And then finally, you're left 
with such a tiny role for 

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government. 
Tiny even compared to what 

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people previously thought of as 
minimum, and there's the 

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question. 
Of, can you take out the last 

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pin and have the system remain? 
And I think ultimately the main 

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problem is just that if people 
don't expect something to be 

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stable, that destabilizes it on 
the other hand of people 

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expected to be stable that 
stabilizes it. 

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So analogy, like very much, is 
you go back to Sweden in 1000, 

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ad and proposed democracy and to
say, man, instead doing no 

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matter how many with Viking 
Viking axe, and I'll make the 

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Viking accent like a modern 
Swedish accent instead of Just 

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having a viking of warlord here.
Why don't we go? 

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And I'll write down names who we
think should be the leader. 

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Whoever gets the most in names 
is will be the leader. 

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Right? 
Imagine all the Vikings 

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laughing, your face and their 
horns of Ale tipping over with 

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glue it with delight as they 
when you say that and they tell 

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you what your that's a stupid 
is, obviously whoever's the 

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strongest of all Lord will kill,
whoever wins and they'll break 

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over, wouldn't make any 
difference and 1080. 

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That's true. 
On the other hand. 

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Imagine going to the modern 
sweet. 

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Cabinet and someone says, well 
maybe if we don't have in the 

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next election, we should just 
murder our opponents. 

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And in that case, people laugh 
at that idea, right? 

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In what has changed, is just 
social expectations about what's

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normal. 
And I say that in a world where 

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people are used to the idea of 
government running really slow 

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on the courts, then to try to 
private sellers. 

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Those would go up against this 
problem. 

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It's going to be unstable 
because it's just totally 

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different. 
What people expect on the other 

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hand, if you imagine a world 
where People take this for 

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granted, then I say it would be 
very stable. 

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And then there's the question of
how can you go from one to the 

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other? 
That's one of the hardest 

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questions social science. 
All we can say is Sweden. 

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Went from Viking Warlords to 
what they have today, right? 

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It took a while, but similarly, 
I say, we can go from a world of

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government to a world of free 
market. 

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Anarchism not overnight not 
violently, but just by shrinking

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the state and getting people 
used to things until they take 

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it for granted. 
And Tell the point where someone

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who says that he's going to use 
violence to establish. 

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His rule seems not like a like a
bad man, like like a fool. 

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Excellent say that I am someone 
who just really only cares about

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the polar. 
I think, the middle class are 

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generally taken care of the rich
have their own thing. 

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But I only care that poor people
have opportunities in life and 

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no one is too poor to live or to
live with dignity. 

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Why should someone like me 
support free markets or 

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capitalism? 
Right. 

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So let's go back to my book open
borders, because the heart of 

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that book is saying that right 
now, there is, there's an 

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enormous amount of totally 
avoidable poverty on Earth 

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caused by government regulation.
Because right now, there are 

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people who are so poor compared 
to almost anyone. 

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You see in the United States, 
and yet, they're Able Body, the 

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perfectly able to take care of 
themselves and they could take 

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care of a bunch of dependents as
well. 

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There's just one problem and 
that is that is illegal for them

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to move to a country where they 
can go and get it. 

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Job, so if you are a rule for 
Mexico, if you could just get 

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across the border, the US and 
work on a u.s. 

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Farm, you can make probably five
times as much money as you do 

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back home in Mexico, but that is
illegal. 

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So, I would say if you really 
care about the poor, you should.

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First of all, realize that most 
Global poverty really is or in 

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the long run caused by these 
immigration restrictions, that 

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have kept people who are able to
take care of themselves from in 

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a free market from doing so. 
So that's the the The first 

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really big thing is to realize 
that there is a big system of 

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Regulation that has locked 
enormous amounts of global 

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poverty in place. 
And this is totally caused by 

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governments, right? 
Because there are jobs that what

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might not seem very desirable to
native-born Americans, but, 

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which are fantastic in the eyes 
of most people on Earth, and 

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it's illegal for them to cake 
and take those in the law. 

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In the, in the same vein. 
I would say there's another very

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large body of regulations. 
That is terrible for the poor. 

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Both domestically 
internationally and these are 

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Actions that make it very 
expensive to build homes, right?

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So right now, the highway 
Jerry's, the country are places 

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like New York Bay Area, but you 
might say, why don't people in 

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West Virginia to just go and 
move there. 

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And the answer is that it's so 
expensive to get home. 

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They're so expensive to get the 
rent apartments that you 

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actually lose more money in rent
that you would make from the 

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higher wages right now, you 
know, why is that? 

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You might just think this is 
just supply and demand, but it's

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totally not. 
There's been a little A lot of 

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research on this and what's 
going on is that the 

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construction business would love
to build an enormous amount of 

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cheap housing. 
However, government does not 

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allow it ever makes it very hard
to get permission to build 

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their, a lot of restrictions on 
things. 

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Like how high you can make your 
buildings, how much of your land

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you can use right? 
And standard estimates say that 

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if you get rid of these 
regulations really just dial 

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this level of Regulation. 
And these desirable areas the 

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u.s. 
Down to the normal level. 

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That this would lead to a 
dramatic reduction in housing 

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costs and desirable areas and a 
very large increase in total 

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production of the country. 
So I actually have this thought 

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experiment where I say imagine 
we went and deregulated the 

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Housing Industry as a result, 
the housing Supply doubled and 

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the price of housing fell by 50 
percent. 

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What share of Americans would 
call this a disaster. 

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Right? 
And I think, actually, and most 

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of my time, I did a survey, most
people thought that most 

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Americans would consider this 
total disaster. 

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Even though this is a scenario 
where we've doubled the housing 

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stock and it's half the price of
what it used to be. 

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So you think that people would 
be happy and yet the general 

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expectation and those people 
have and that I have, is that 

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people would try to find the 
dark lining and the Silver Cloud

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of a massive expansion of 
affordable housing, right? 

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And but again, if you care about
the poor that Obviously, the 

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poor would benefit if they could
get housing for half the cost of

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what they're currently paying 
not only, could they just afford

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a bigger nicer place. 
They wouldn't have to rent. 

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Maybe, even if you're homeless, 
you can afford to get a place as

230
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a result. 
But furthermore, it would be 

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affordable to go and move into 
these higher wage areas of the 

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US and enjoy that. 
So those are the really big 

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00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:36,800
regulations that are terrible 
for the poor and we can talk 

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about others if you want. 
So obviously there are some 

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other things government does 
that at least seem like they're 

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helpful for the poor? 
I think it's worth pointing out 

237
00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:48,600
that there are two very large 
bodies of Regulation which have 

238
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,400
an enormous and bad effect for 
the poor to get that on the 

239
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,800
table. 
The Sao regulation of 

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00:11:53,808 --> 00:11:55,500
immigration. 
Regulation of housing. 

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These are two things that are 
terrible for the for the truly 

242
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poor. 
So If you're worried about them,

243
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,200
these are at least two massive 
ways of deregulation. 

244
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,900
You should totally support. 
Save that. 

245
00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:11,300
Alright, you've convinced me 
capitalism creates a bunch of 

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stuff when people are free. 
They're more free to make 

247
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voluntary exchanges, which 
increases their overall 

248
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satisfaction, but I care about 
inequality. 

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00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:23,200
Let's say, I see some people 
that have so much and I see some

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00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,800
people that have so little, and 
if they get laid off their life 

251
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,000
is just in shambles, if I only 
care about inequality, why 

252
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,500
should I consider something like
free markets, right? 

253
00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:36,700
Well, just to sound like a 
broken record. 

254
00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:38,800
You care about inequality, 
should favor getting rid of 

255
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,800
immigration restrictions? 
Because those trap really are 

256
00:12:42,808 --> 00:12:45,600
desperately, poor people and 
really severe poverty, while 

257
00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:49,300
protecting people who are 
already living quite well. 

258
00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:52,300
And then similarly with housing,
right? 

259
00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:54,300
If you care about inequality, 
you should want to make housing 

260
00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:59,000
cheaper, so that more people can
afford nicer homes and also can 

261
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,100
live in higher wage areas, the 
country. 

262
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,300
So that would be where I would 
start, I guess I would also 

263
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,000
Let's see. 
So, I'm gonna yell at him in 

264
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,600
terms of other things to 
consider. 

265
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,600
I would just ask. 
So, what exactly is the complain

266
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,100
about inequality. 
Is it really an equality per se?

267
00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:19,300
That's bothering you or is it 
spot? 

268
00:13:19,300 --> 00:13:23,000
Or is it poverty? 
So, it's also true that the best

269
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,600
places on Earth to be, poor are 
the richest countries. 

270
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:29,500
So the poor and rich countries 
are a lot better off than the 

271
00:13:29,508 --> 00:13:32,800
poor in poor countries. 
So if your real concern is just 

272
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,900
that some people have a low 
standard of living than again. 

273
00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:37,800
I would say that. 
Market capitalism, which is 

274
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,400
really good for creating more 
wealth. 

275
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,500
If your concern is simply with 
inequality per se, then I would 

276
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:45,000
just say it's complicated. 
There's a bunch of things that 

277
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,000
government does that increases 
inequality. 

278
00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:49,500
There's a by, there's a bunch of
things that government does that

279
00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:51,600
job that reducing it, that 
reduce inequality. 

280
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:54,700
And so minimum, if this were 
concerned you should start with 

281
00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:55,900
all the things government is 
doing that. 

282
00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:59,400
They can equality worse and join
me in trying to get rid of 

283
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,500
those. 
Sure. 

284
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,000
Hey, another aspect is say that 
I'm someone who just is so 

285
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,900
terrified of monopolies. 
A small percentage of wealthy 

286
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:12,900
people gaining so much power 
over an industry. 

287
00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:15,500
That the entire populace is left
at their Mercy. 

288
00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:19,400
If I am, if I am just so 
terrified of private sector. 

289
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,700
Monopolies. 
Why should I consider free 

290
00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:25,900
market capitalism, right? 
So this is starred mean if 

291
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:28,000
you're afraid of Monopoly, I 
would say that you really should

292
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,300
have a public Monopoly to 
private Monopoly. 

293
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,800
And so, there are a lot of cases
where the government owns an 

294
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,200
industry and controls it. 
So many countries have 

295
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,300
government telephone Monopoly. 
So, most of Africa, prior to 

296
00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,000
cell phones had governments 
telephone monopolies. 

297
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,500
And as a in large part, is 
result, hardly anyone in Africa 

298
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:50,800
to phone because the government 
was just did a very poor job of 

299
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,900
running it. 
So of course, right now, we have

300
00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:57,700
a system where government runs 
about 90% of the education 

301
00:14:57,700 --> 00:15:00,500
system. 
So, you know, like if that sound

302
00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,300
if 19. 
If one owner wrote a real wild 

303
00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:06,200
like a having 90% of the 
education, 90% of Industry 

304
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,800
counts as monopolies and we 
think that the education would 

305
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,300
sound was just what counts, of 
course, the post office cover 

306
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:14,200
properly as well. 
Illegal to actually deliver 

307
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,200
first-class mail, even if 
everyone who's directly 

308
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,900
involved. 
Neighbors that. 

309
00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:22,800
So minimum I would just say to 
compare private and public 

310
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,400
sector Monopoly and just be 
aware of both. 

311
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,700
But, you know, the other thing I
would say is that Private sector

312
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:32,700
Monopoly is a problem. 
If Government is made 

313
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:35,900
competition illegal, which it 
often does or at least if they 

314
00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:39,500
hinder competition once again, 
so in the construction industry,

315
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,900
it's a very often illegal to go 
and entering try to compete 

316
00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:44,900
against existing sellers of 
housing. 

317
00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:48,100
So you've got that kind of thing
going on, but on the other hand,

318
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:50,800
I would say if it's just that a 
private business has succeeded 

319
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,100
because they've offered 
consumers, a better deal than 

320
00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:55,200
anyone else. 
Then I would say this is 

321
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,900
actually nothing, that's makes 
sense to complain about. 

322
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,300
So we think about Emma, On I am 
continually baffle Apple that 

323
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:05,200
anyone is mad about Amazon. 
So I just say this is the best 

324
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,400
store that has ever existed in 
human history by far. 

325
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,100
I don't even see how you can 
really argue it. 

326
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,600
It is a endless source of cheap 
convenient products, right? 

327
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,100
And yet people somehow managed 
to find something bad about it. 

328
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:20,200
There is an interesting puzzle. 
How can they have such a great 

329
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,400
market share and yet still be 
continuing to serve because the 

330
00:16:23,408 --> 00:16:26,600
consumer so Faithfully might 
think they would say already. 

331
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,700
We've won, we don't need to give
you a good deal anymore. 

332
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,100
Right? 
And this is often a fear about 

333
00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:34,000
Monopoly is sure they get to be 
number one by. 

334
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,300
Do being good. 
But once they are number one, 

335
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:39,900
then they can become bad. 
I'd say me, really what we see 

336
00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:43,200
is that firms like this. 
Generally you're always looking 

337
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,300
over their shoulder because they
know that if they stop, not only

338
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:48,900
being good, but they have to 
keep trying to improve to stay 

339
00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:51,100
ahead of whoever might catch up 
with them. 

340
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,000
So, when you picture it, when 
you think of it that way, then 

341
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,100
you realize that private sector 
monopolies, were they just get 

342
00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:59,200
it by making consumers. 
Happy is not only not a Woman 

343
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,500
actually is the source of many 
of the greatest things we have 

344
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:04,900
in our lives, right? 
And furthermore. 

345
00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:07,200
Now something that I did not 
anticipate 30 years ago. 

346
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,000
When I first started, you saying
economics is that we would come 

347
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,500
to a world where there are 
numerous famous monopolies that 

348
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:16,400
give their product away for free
Google. 

349
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:22,500
This is a machine that simply 
provides all human knowledge of 

350
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,900
the universe. 
Does it for free, you can search

351
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:30,700
all you want endlessly vertex. 
It's for pictures videos. 

352
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:34,400
And what do they charge nothing?
Right YouTube. 

353
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,000
Similarly, you know, they charge
nothing. 

354
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,500
Some of these are freemium where
you get a fantastic product or 

355
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:41,400
free if you want even more, 
fantastic product, you pay a few

356
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,400
dollars a month and then there 
you have it. 

357
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:47,500
So this is what we'll, what we 
generally see with private 

358
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:49,800
sector monopolies, is that they 
got there for a reason? 

359
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,600
Sometimes the reason is that 
they got the government to ban 

360
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,300
competition, but the ones that 
people are complaining about 

361
00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:58,300
right now, it's almost entirely 
just that they deliver a great 

362
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:00,900
deal. 
And people are amazingly 

363
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:02,700
ungrateful. 
Right? 

364
00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:06,100
So 30 years ago. 
I would have been surprised that

365
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,700
you would see famous companies, 
giving the product away for free

366
00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:11,900
and even more surprised that 
people would be so angry at 

367
00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:13,500
them. 
Even, 10 years ago. 

368
00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:17,300
I was thinking like, well, 
Google is finally knock this 

369
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:20,100
idea that big business is bad 
out of the American public 

370
00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:22,500
because it's just so obvious 
that it's great for them. 

371
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,000
But I was wrong. 
Then it turns out that people 

372
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,200
can be angry about anything. 
That was the first thing I came 

373
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,100
to mind when you said, what if 
we doubled housing and cut the 

374
00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:36,200
price in half? 
I go ALC would be so upset. 

375
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,100
You'd never hear the end of it. 
Why are some countries wealthy 

376
00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:41,200
in some countries? 
Poor? 

377
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,600
Well, there are a bunch of 
reasons, but I would say that in

378
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,200
the long run. 
The biggest reason is economic 

379
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,900
policy. 
So there is a set of economic 

380
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:54,300
policies that are very helpful 
for economic growth. 

381
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,700
So these policies generally 
involve having a high degree of 

382
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,300
economic, freedom, stable, 
private property. 

383
00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:03,800
So that is a big part of an 
especially doing this for a long

384
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,700
time. 
So if Haiti went and got very 

385
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:10,000
free market policies today, they
still be pouring a year because 

386
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,100
a lot of this is cumulative. 
It's also being very open to not

387
00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:16,200
just international trade but 
International Investment. 

388
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,100
International Investment is not 
just money. 

389
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:21,100
It is also know how its 
organization its management. 

390
00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:25,300
So these are very important 
things but there's any other, a 

391
00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:27,700
bunch of other factors that have
to be given that you have really

392
00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:30,800
have to think about. 
So a lot of evidence that 

393
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,100
average National Intelligence 
matters, and this does vary by 

394
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:37,700
country and that's just a fact. 
Some of that is probably versus 

395
00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:41,600
causation, but probably some of 
it is not just location. 

396
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,200
There's two. 
So being in the tropics, seems 

397
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,400
bad for a bunch of reasons. 
You got tropical disease. 

398
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:50,500
You've got your Sergio, just Tha
temperature making makes it hard

399
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:52,400
to work in. 
Most most occupations. 

400
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,500
There's a book about Singapore, 
arguing. 

401
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:56,600
I think pretty convincingly. 
The air conditioning was very 

402
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,600
important for Singapore to 
develop would have been hard 

403
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,600
without it and then obviously, 
if you step back further another

404
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,000
really big fact is science and 
you know, Tech science 

405
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,900
technology. 
So in the year 1 AD, you could 

406
00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,700
have had totally free market 
policies and yet they still 

407
00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:13,100
probably would have been really 
poor compared to France today 

408
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:16,500
because they wouldn't have been 
just having free-market 

409
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:17,800
policies. 
Doesn't immediately give you 

410
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,000
science technology over the long
run. 

411
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,900
I would say that it probably 
does but that too is complicated

412
00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:28,100
and it does seem like you'll get
a period of stagnation which may

413
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:29,300
have something to do with 
policy. 

414
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:33,000
But as far from the only thing 
and then finally you start 

415
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,600
getting the ball of Technology 
bowling again, right? 

416
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,200
So you've got that and a bunch 
of other things. 

417
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,300
So War obviously is really bad 
for Development. 

418
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,600
So that's can really hold things
back. 

419
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,600
Especially if even when you have
peace, people are worrying about

420
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:48,700
that. 
Another world is going to break 

421
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,400
out. 
So there's that and there's just

422
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,700
things like savings rates. 
So if people in your country 

423
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:59,200
blow through all their money 
really quickly and you don't end

424
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:03,000
that by itself is likely to 
retarder, economic growth, you 

425
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,100
could just get International 
investors and it would be very 

426
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:10,000
wise to make them feel very 
comfortable but still seems like

427
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:13,500
simply being In different 
country tens of by itself. 

428
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:16,000
Tends to reduce the amount of a 
better investment you get. 

429
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,100
So it's important to get 
investment domestically that 

430
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:22,700
really helps. 
So there's that and you and you 

431
00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:25,700
just play other things. 
So, possibly religion makes some

432
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:27,400
difference to. 
So, what's the religion your 

433
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,000
country. 
There's a long debate about 

434
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,400
whether it was really helpful. 
Be Protestant versus Catholic. 

435
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,300
Think at this point. 
There's a lot of doubt that 

436
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:36,300
matters or least matters 
anymore, but you've got that. 

437
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,100
And I mean, I guess I would say,
the honest answer is named any 

438
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:41,500
factor and it probably matters 
so much. 

439
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:44,900
Right now. 
So people like to have really 

440
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:47,900
simple models but we turn 
better. 

441
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:50,000
Yeah, like I often think in 
terms of yesterday, but what can

442
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,200
you do? 
Well in terms of policy? 

443
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,800
And that's where I would say. 
Terms of policy, you want to 

444
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,400
have very high economic degree 
of economic freedom. 

445
00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:01,500
And you also want to have a 
peaceful foreign policy. 

446
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:05,900
So that you are not getting your
country destroyed and conflicts.

447
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:09,200
Again, of course, there's like, 
well, this isn't the best way to

448
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,500
shoe have keys former War 
saying, I think sometimes a lot 

449
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:16,900
of times it's not a lot of times
preparing for war causes of war 

450
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:18,800
that wouldn't have happened. 
Otherwise because you terrify 

451
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,200
other countries, I always like 
to say that the Soviet Union or 

452
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,500
got very safe when the Red Army 
collapsed because the only 

453
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:28,100
reason they were in danger 
really was that the rest of the 

454
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:30,700
world was terrified of them 
because they were their army was

455
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,200
too scary. 
Sure. 

456
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,500
What if I am someone who just 
cares about the cleanliness of 

457
00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:41,500
the environment? 
Everything else is materialistic

458
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,900
nonsense. 
I only care about having a clean

459
00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:48,200
place for me and my cat, because
I'm so scared of the 

460
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,100
environment. 
I'm not even having kids. 

461
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:53,300
What do you why? 
Should I support free market 

462
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:56,200
capitalism? 
Because he literally, you only 

463
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,700
care about yourself and your 
cat, then you would be good for 

464
00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:03,300
the environment of all the human
beings perished, right? 

465
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:06,000
So if by definition the invite 
like a good environment is 

466
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,700
whatever. 
It's like without humans there. 

467
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,600
I would say that seems like a 
very strange view. 

468
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,000
I got many more than a few 
people actually even hold that 

469
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,800
view. 
What I would say about someone 

470
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,200
who just says look I would like 
to enjoy a nice dinner living 

471
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,500
but also to have nice 
Environmental Quality. 

472
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,900
That's what where I was saying. 
There is that researchers have 

473
00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:26,500
found something something that's
called the environmental 

474
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:27,500
kuznets. 
Curve. 

475
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:31,000
And it comes down to this when 
you're really poor, Economic 

476
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,300
Development, seems to make the 
environment worse. 

477
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,900
Worse. 
And so just picture being in a 

478
00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:39,400
small Agricultural Society and 
then you start getting some 

479
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,700
industry. 
Normally, what happens at first 

480
00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:43,900
is that the environment gets 
worse, you get air, pollution 

481
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:49,200
and water pollution. 
However, and when the all the 

482
00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:52,800
income in your society and 
Converse in your Society gets to

483
00:23:52,808 --> 00:23:55,700
monitor level, then what we see 
fairly reliably is that this 

484
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:58,300
reverses and then the society 
start to clean up and then 

485
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:01,300
eventually you've got to what is
typical in the first world where

486
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:04,000
you have both a high standard of
living and it Environment. 

487
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,000
So it's called the environmental
kuznets, curve. 

488
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,500
Because it's a curve First 
Development makes the around the

489
00:24:08,508 --> 00:24:10,500
worse. 
Then it stabilizes, and then 

490
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:12,600
develop further development 
makes the environment better 

491
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:15,300
essentially once people can 
afford to make things clean. 

492
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,100
Then they make things clean. 
All right, so that's the main 

493
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:21,900
story say. 
Now, I would also say that often

494
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:25,100
measures of Environmental 
Quality people use are 

495
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:30,000
deliberately slanted to make 
modern society look bad because 

496
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,600
they don't measure the filth of 
earlier societies. 

497
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,500
So, for example, Example, 
usually, we don't when we 

498
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:38,800
measure Environmental Quality, 
look at amount of horse manure 

499
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,300
anymore. 
But what hat Leah, what did the 

500
00:24:42,308 --> 00:24:44,400
internal combustion engine? 
Do it cleaned. 

501
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,100
The horse manure off the 
streets. 

502
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,600
So, 100 years ago. 
Let's see now. 

503
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,100
All right, hundred and twenty 
years ago. 

504
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:53,700
Let's say just to be safe. 
The streets of New York City, 

505
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:57,100
would have been completely 
blanketed in horse manure, which

506
00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:00,500
is not just unsightly and 
malodorous. 

507
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,300
It also spreads disease through 
fly. 

508
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:06,800
Eyes and all kinds of other 
disgusting, things like that. 

509
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,900
And the internal combustion 
engine of this went and 

510
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:13,900
basically made the horse 
obsolete after time, and so 

511
00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:16,200
indirectly got all that horse. 
Manure off the street. 

512
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,300
Now, in modern measure 
Environmental Quality, we just 

513
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:19,800
take for granted that we don't 
have forced me to wear 

514
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,300
everywhere. 
But if we were doing a broader 

515
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:29,000
measure not of particular kinds 
of emissions, but of how does 

516
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,400
the air smell overall? 
How breathable is the are like, 

517
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,700
then we would see See that 
capitalism and modern technology

518
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:39,700
and combination have improved 
things a lot more than even that

519
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:41,300
simple cucit's curve would have,
you think? 

520
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,700
If we were to embrace a pure 
system of free markets and 

521
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,100
capitalism, who would protect 
the workers. 

522
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:55,500
So what I say is there's no who 
that protects the workers. 

523
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:59,200
It's rather a w. 
It's competition, right? 

524
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,400
So right now, of course, milk, 
most workers get very little 

525
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,400
protection from the government's
really? 

526
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,500
Yes. 
So who protects comic really 

527
00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:09,900
like, who protects Tom Cruise? 
Right, Bob, who protects 

528
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:13,300
lawyers? 
All right, so, you know, they 

529
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:16,200
all who protects Engineers or 
computer programmers for all 

530
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,300
these cases. 
There's some laws on the books, 

531
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:20,800
but they're so irrelevant to 
what the occupation is, though. 

532
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:22,900
Almost no computer program is 
working for anything. 

533
00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:25,900
Remotely close to minimum wage. 
Minimum wage is not protecting 

534
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:28,100
him, right? 
And similarly. 

535
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:30,300
So if we're matter of the 
computer programmer, feels like 

536
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:33,300
things are not safe in the job. 
Yes, you don't call boscia and 

537
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:35,900
wait around to see what happens 
or you could complain or just 

538
00:26:35,900 --> 00:26:39,500
find another job. 
So even now in practice, almost 

539
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:41,200
everyone, just relies upon 
competition. 

540
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,600
In to take care of them. 
And you like, even when you 

541
00:26:43,608 --> 00:26:46,400
complain to an employer about 
something, there's a tax that 

542
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,700
threat which is if you don't 
deal with my complaint, then 

543
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:53,500
what I'm going to call the 
government on you sometimes more

544
00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:56,200
often it is I will be 
dissatisfied worker if you don't

545
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,900
address my concerns and then 
when I get in a good 

546
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:02,100
opportunity, I'm going to leave.
And this is what most employers 

547
00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:05,700
are worried about is that their 
workers will be dissatisfied and

548
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:08,900
we'll leave and I would say the 
same principle goes for 

549
00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:11,200
lower-skilled workers as well. 
Is that? 

550
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:12,900
It is the competition that 
protects them. 

551
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,600
There are. 
Of course a lot of laws that 

552
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:19,600
would at least apply for 
lower-skilled workers like the 

553
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,300
minimum wage. 
Although there. 

554
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,000
I would say that when you really
study the economics, you realize

555
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,400
that it's a lot more complicated
than the usual view, usual view,

556
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,800
just says that you're depressed 
worker and the government comes 

557
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,500
and helps you. 
And then your helps the end, 

558
00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:34,100
right bought almost every 
Economist who has looked at 

559
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,900
this, as it's more complicated 
than that because of all you 

560
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:38,500
needed to give a low skilled 
worker. 

561
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:41,200
Good life was a fifteen dollar, 
an hour minimum wage. 

562
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,300
Why stop there? 
Why not 25? 

563
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:46,000
Why not 50? 
Why not 100 right in this 

564
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:47,300
eventually? 
Almost, everyone will say. 

565
00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:49,300
All right. 
Well made it a hundred dollars 

566
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:54,200
an hour for a fast food worker 
than maybe the job would 

567
00:27:54,208 --> 00:27:57,500
disappear and that's a very 
reasonable thing to think. 

568
00:27:57,900 --> 00:27:59,700
All right, but then wait a 
second. 

569
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,300
Well, what makes you think that 
a hundred dollar minimum wage 

570
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,300
does cause unemployment, but a 
fifteen dollar per hour, but if 

571
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:07,700
you do are $15 per hour, minimum
wage does not cause 

572
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:09,700
unemployment. 
And I have to say, I've never 

573
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:11,300
gotten any halfway, decent 
answer to this. 

574
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,500
Right. 
So anyway simulators your simile

575
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:17,700
for a law that requires that you
give all of your employees 

576
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:19,800
Healthcare. 
This is something almost 

577
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,000
Everyone likes and yet this does
not in any way mean that an 

578
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,900
individual worker gets health 
care because it essentially just

579
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:29,200
says that employers have to 
either give you health care or 

580
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,100
not. 
Hire you And obviously they may 

581
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:34,200
very well to make the decision 
to not hire you. 

582
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,700
When people are thinking about 
hiring a nanny, then it's pretty

583
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:40,900
obvious that if there's a bunch 
of regulations about the hiring 

584
00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:42,800
of Danny's, a lot of people say 
forget it. 

585
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,300
I'm not going to bother. 
But somehow they imagine that 

586
00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:47,700
for businesses. 
They don't think this way. 

587
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:51,000
And again as to why businesses 
would not be responsive to the 

588
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,700
cost of Labor in the cost of 
Regulation. 

589
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:56,500
I just can't imagine where 
anyone would get this idea and 

590
00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:59,600
finally just to get a really 
good idea of how labor markets 

591
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,600
actually work for those. 
Workers right now. 

592
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,300
There are millions of workers 
that do not actually have legal 

593
00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:08,300
protection, the United States, 
because it is illegal for them 

594
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,100
to work at all. 
So illegal immigrants cannot 

595
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:12,800
legally be working in the United
States at all. 

596
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:18,000
And yet you find that when they 
go and get jobs, they are not 

597
00:29:18,008 --> 00:29:22,200
paid 10 cents an hour, right? 
Instead, even in the illegal 

598
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,700
Market, you see that employers 
are concerned about competition.

599
00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:29,000
So if I'm employing some workers
illegally still, this does not 

600
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,500
mean the workers are slave, is 
they Go and work for another 

601
00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:34,100
employer. 
It legally and employers have to

602
00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:37,000
go and consider this right and 
Me. 

603
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,400
By the way, this is also very 
relevant to another very popular

604
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,600
worker. 
Protection is legal protection 

605
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,500
against discrimination. 
So, there is an idea that 

606
00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:47,400
without discrimination laws 
employers would be 

607
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,300
discriminating left and right. 
And I say, well think about this

608
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,700
illegal immigrants are people 
against whom it is illegal, not 

609
00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:57,500
discriminate. 
According to law. 

610
00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:00,500
You must treat illegal 
immigrants very differently. 

611
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,200
People that are legally allowed 
to work. 

612
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,200
Namely, you're not allowed to 
hire them at all, and yet, even 

613
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,900
though it is perfectly legal to 
discriminate against 

614
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,400
discriminate against illegal 
immigrants. 

615
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,700
In fact, it's required, people 
are worried that employers won't

616
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:16,200
do it. 
They're worried that if that of 

617
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,800
all you say is they're not 
protected that employers will 

618
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,800
hire them anyway, right? 
So what's going on here? 

619
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,400
I think the answer is people 
realize employers are mainly in 

620
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,500
it for the money. 
And therefore if the law simply 

621
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:32,500
said, You can hire illegal 
immigrants if you want, but they

622
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:35,000
can't, but they aren't but it's 
late, but they are not protected

623
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,700
from discrimination. 
They realize that employers will

624
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:41,200
hire them and that's why the law
actually says, you may not hire 

625
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,900
them, you will be punished if 
you hire them because otherwise,

626
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:46,400
they know that employed that to 
these Market, mechanisms 

627
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,200
competition would work. 
And in the absence of laws, that

628
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,800
prevented employers, who hire 
illegal immigrants, would be 

629
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,700
really easy for legal owners, 
get a job. 

630
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,700
And even now when there's a 
bunch of law, still illegal 

631
00:30:59,700 --> 00:31:02,400
immigrants, find And because 
employers are willing to break 

632
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,900
the law to make money. 
What is social desirability 

633
00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:12,000
bias? 
Ah great question social 

634
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,800
desirability bias is one of the 
most important and well 

635
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,100
validated ideas and off 
psychology. 

636
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:21,400
It says that when the truth 
sounds bad people lie and often 

637
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,100
they get sucked up into their 
own lies so much that they start

638
00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:27,200
to believe completely 
nonsensical things. 

639
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:30,400
Alright, so some of the most 
obvious examples of this are. 

640
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,400
If you ask people, if they went 
to church a higher share of 

641
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,200
people say, they Once then 
really did, when we go and look 

642
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,600
at bodies that were there. 
If you ask people how much money

643
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,700
they give to charity, people 
claim to give more money to 

644
00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:46,300
charity than they really do. 
If you ask them how much they 

645
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:50,300
drink, they claim to drink less 
than the actual sales of alcohol

646
00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:52,900
show. 
They do in fact drink, right? 

647
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:56,500
If you ask them things like you 
are you are you a better than 

648
00:31:56,500 --> 00:32:00,700
typical driver more than half. 
The population says that if you 

649
00:32:00,700 --> 00:32:02,600
ask people, you know, how kind 
you are you compared to others, 

650
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,800
how generous right then for all 
these These things we see is 

651
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,700
there is a gap between what 
sounds good and what really is 

652
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:10,900
happening. 
Bringing. 

653
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:14,000
One of my favorite ones is. 
If you ask people, if you were 

654
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,400
pregnant with a Down Syndrome, 
baby, would you abort? 

655
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,000
Most people say, no, yet. 
We have numbers on the fraction 

656
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,200
of people find themselves in 
that situation saying that in a 

657
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,000
very large majority do itís. 
The difference between what 

658
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,300
sounds good and what people 
actually do in fact, do right. 

659
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,500
Now, this is a very general 
idea. 

660
00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:38,300
And you can and once you really 
appreciate you can see it almost

661
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:39,900
everywhere. 
But in particular, I say you can

662
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:41,700
seal so much of this in 
politics. 

663
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:44,300
For example, you'll see in 
politics of people will say, 

664
00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:46,000
completely nonsensical. 
Things. 

665
00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:48,700
Like nothing's more important 
than education. 

666
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:52,200
I don't care what your, what 
Your ideological views are. 

667
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,400
This is an absurd statement food
is more important than 

668
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,500
education. 
Obviously, obviously. 

669
00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:01,700
Right, if you either food or no 
education or education, no food.

670
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:03,500
Which one are you going to 
choose light? 

671
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:06,800
Or when people say things like, 
it would be better if we have 

672
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,500
been better to have for us to go
to war than to lose one inch of 

673
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:12,300
territory. 
Oh, really? 

674
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,500
It's predict ulis. 
Who can one is, your territory 

675
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:20,400
is not very important, and the 
war would be terrible. 

676
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,500
Right? 
And then you land it once again,

677
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:25,700
you can obviously see that when 
people are talking about war 

678
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:28,600
politicians, make a bunch of 
statements, why that are cheered

679
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:33,000
with great Vigor by their people
saying we will die before we 

680
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,700
surrender and yet what is every 
country to do when they actually

681
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:38,200
have to choose between death and
surrender? 

682
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,500
They surrender. 
So, you know, perhaps the most 

683
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:46,600
obvious case being an imperial 
Japan when their rhetoric of 

684
00:33:46,900 --> 00:33:48,900
death and their glorification of
death. 

685
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,000
Is it off the charts and yet 
couple nuclear bombs get dropped

686
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,900
and like, wow, there's death and
they'd be. 

687
00:33:56,900 --> 00:33:58,200
All right. 
So that's what we see. 

688
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,400
Right? 
And I say that when you listen 

689
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,000
to the regularity of the 
justifications people, give for 

690
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,200
a lot of government regulations,
government ownership. 

691
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,800
When you actually listened, it 
really just does come down to 

692
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,000
social desirability bias. 
And you know, it sounds that 

693
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,900
people say what sounds good 
without really thinking about 

694
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,300
whether it, whether work. 
Well, you know, meal. 

695
00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:19,500
So sometimes I think people are 
lying to meet more often. 

696
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:21,800
It's just that people have heard
the lies so much. 

697
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,500
They actually have internalized 
them. 

698
00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:27,199
So things like the only on the 
minimum wage is it was just 

699
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:28,900
great. 
It's a way of helping workers 

700
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:32,100
like sounds good. 
Like what about a million wage 

701
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:33,800
$100 an hour? 
Wouldn't that have some bad 

702
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,400
effects so you don't really 
favored that to you. 

703
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,800
So then what makes you think 
that having a fifteen dollar 

704
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,400
minimum wage River of oil, 15, a
of dollar per hour. 

705
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,199
Minimum wage isn't bad. 
And same thing goes the oh, like

706
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:48,100
with many complaints about 
immigration things. 

707
00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:52,199
Like, if one American is harmed.
It's like tell me anything good 

708
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:54,300
that has ever happened. 
That didn't harm one American. 

709
00:34:54,699 --> 00:34:59,200
Yeah, that goober Uber harm. 
Many more than one Americans. 

710
00:34:59,700 --> 00:35:03,000
The mechanization of Agriculture
harm, many Americans. 

711
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,700
So what we're not going to allow
any kind of progress if there's 

712
00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:08,700
one. 
Person who shares my citizenship

713
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,400
who's harmed by it again. 
It sounds good. 

714
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,100
It's the kind of thing you say 
in a speech, but it's 

715
00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:17,400
ridiculous. 
I want to get into open borders,

716
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,100
the science and ethics of 
immigration here. 

717
00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:22,800
Now. 
I did some research and Garrett 

718
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,800
Jones who works at George Mason 
University has written a 

719
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,100
response to your book saying 
incomes in the United States 

720
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:32,900
would fall as much as 40%. 
Bernie Sanders was on. 

721
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:34,700
Oh, gosh. 
I'm sorry. 

722
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:36,900
It just slipped me. 
I think vox.com. 

723
00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:41,500
And he said this is actually a 
conspiracy by the Koch brothers 

724
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:46,200
to bring in low paying job. 
ABS in order to stifle 

725
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,500
competition. 
So rate so wages, can't go high 

726
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:51,300
enough. 
So I'm someone who just cares 

727
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:54,400
about poor Americans. 
I see poverty all around me. 

728
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,900
How can we take anymore? 
For Heaven's Sake, right? 

729
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,700
So two things. 
All right. 

730
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:05,600
So there's the very silly Bernie
Sanders argument, which has to 

731
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,600
back up. 
So let me let me just explain 

732
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,000
how exactly it is that 
immigration increases the wealth

733
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,700
of mankind. 
So the idea is that you have a 

734
00:36:13,707 --> 00:36:16,200
lot of Metallics trapped in poor
countries. 

735
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,800
And if you move it to rich 
countries virtually overnight, 

736
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,700
the workers don't discern more 
money, but they produce a lot 

737
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:25,400
more and they don't consume all 
the extra stuff. 

738
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,300
They produce instead. 
They sell it to other people 

739
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:31,100
then partake in the benefits. 
So, when he should moves from 

740
00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:34,100
Haiti to Florida, they get it 
going. 

741
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:36,600
Get a job at a restaurant and 
suddenly they are producing much

742
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,100
more value than they were back 
in Haiti because they are saving

743
00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:43,600
the time of people with much 
higher value or a Mexican goes 

744
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,500
and works. 
Moves from a farm in Mexico to 

745
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:48,100
farm in the US. 
Suddenly, they are earning five 

746
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:50,500
times as much money because 
they're growing five times as 

747
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:53,900
much stuff as they did under 
American Management on American 

748
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:56,500
Farm rather than a neck under 
Mexican Management on a Mexican 

749
00:36:56,500 --> 00:36:59,100
Farm. 
I notice this is not the silly 

750
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:01,700
argument, the more population 
equals more production. 

751
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:05,900
This is the sophisticated 
argument that when you move 

752
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:08,900
people from a low productivity 
area to high productivity area, 

753
00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:11,700
the production of the world goes
up as a result. 

754
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:14,500
Bryce. 
This is the way that immigration

755
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:17,100
increases wealth. 
Now I kind of have measured how 

756
00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:20,700
much does the wealth go up by 
the Roma Lancers are enormously 

757
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:23,200
for two reasons. 
First of all, a lot of people 

758
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,200
want to move by most estimates 
billion plus, people want to 

759
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,400
move and when they do move their
productivity increases 

760
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,900
enormously by a factor of say 
five. 

761
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,900
So if you move a whole lot of 
people and their pretty goes up 

762
00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:37,800
by a lot. 
This means that the production 

763
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,500
of the world goes up by a whole 
lot. 

764
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:42,100
So they typically will be 
something like you double the 

765
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:44,200
production. 
Action of the World by in a 

766
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,200
ultimately, in a world of open 
borders. 

767
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:51,400
All right, now when people start
worrying about this, so there's,

768
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,000
you know, there is, of course, 
the story that Nintendo 

769
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,500
production wouldn't really go 
out there something wrong with 

770
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:57,600
that. 
Now, Garrett Jones actually just

771
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,000
critique, he accepts that and 
then he did and what he says, is

772
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,400
that, all right. 
So what's the deal that that 

773
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,900
mask seems to work out? 
Least in a simple model but by 

774
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:09,100
the simple models his by the 
way, so it's not just any old 

775
00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:12,500
simple model with his simple 
model, but then There's the 

776
00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:14,100
question of the distribution of 
the games. 

777
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:18,700
So what Garrett says, is that we
could measure over world where 

778
00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:21,400
everyone moves the United States
production, the world doubles, 

779
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,800
but then he says that natives 
would native, the other people 

780
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,100
are currently here would get a 
lot for. 

781
00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:28,500
Right? 
And why is this? 

782
00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:33,300
Because he says that based on 
other estimates, that there 

783
00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:34,900
would there be very little 
inequality. 

784
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:38,600
And so, as a result of having 
very little, very little in 

785
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,900
equality, while the average 
would double The Americans. 

786
00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:46,500
Find that they are getting a 
small increase over this 

787
00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:48,400
doubling of the world average. 
Right? 

788
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,500
But since they'd only be getting
a little bit more of the world, 

789
00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:52,200
average, that would still be 
less their debt. 

790
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,400
Currently getting right now 
right now, Americans would 

791
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,900
probably be running several 
times what the global average 

792
00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:59,100
is. 
So suppose Americans earning 

793
00:38:59,100 --> 00:39:01,000
five times. 
The global average Garrett's 

794
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,900
argued is basically like well 
Americans afterwards would get 

795
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:10,000
basically like 10 or 20% more 
than twice the world average. 

796
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:12,700
Righto, the current world 
average and that's less than, or

797
00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:16,500
the getting right now. 
So my reply to that is, this 

798
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:19,300
goes against all of our 
experience with large increases 

799
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,000
in production, the past and we 
have a bunch. 

800
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:25,000
So we have the Industrial 
Revolution, very large increase 

801
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,000
in production and the game's not
primarily go to factory owners. 

802
00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:33,200
The gains were very broadly, 
spread like similarly, with 

803
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,500
vaccines. 
The games in, primarily go to 

804
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:37,900
people, that Mako that 
manufacture vaccines, or invent 

805
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:39,400
them. 
They would all the people didn't

806
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,500
die, the internet, the games. 
Rarely go to computer, 

807
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:43,100
programmers. 
Similarly. 

808
00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:46,500
I say that it's not reasonable 
to think that almost all or all 

809
00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:48,800
of the gains are actually 
interesting Garrett scenario. 

810
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,100
It is that more than a hundred 
percent of the games. 

811
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:53,700
Go to migrants. 
I say that is totally 

812
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:55,500
unprecedented. 
We've never seen anything like 

813
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:58,500
that before in human history for
any large gain in production. 

814
00:39:58,900 --> 00:40:02,400
So any in his story is literally
that there be a doubling of 

815
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,400
direction of the world, but more
than 100 percent of the game, 

816
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,800
would go to the emergence. 
And I say that's just 

817
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,600
unprecedented. 
So it's totally unreasonable 

818
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,800
protection. 
But I do see where he's coming 

819
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,400
from now. 
Bernie Sanders, where he's 

820
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,300
coming from. 
It's unclear. 

821
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:23,700
He doesn't quite say that we 
should just forget about 

822
00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:25,800
everyone else on Earth and I 
only care about Americans, 

823
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:27,800
right? 
So he still enough of an 

824
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,800
old-line Marxist to feign being 
an internationalist, but it's 

825
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,900
more along. 
The lines of it would be worse 

826
00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:36,700
for them to because we be under 
undermining, the international 

827
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:38,200
labor movers something like 
that. 

828
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:41,400
So, and everybody, we just say 
that if you really believed him 

829
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,300
and you should be against 
technological progress as well, 

830
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,900
because it's the same idea of 
you figure out a way to 

831
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:49,800
accomplish more with your people
and then what's going to happen 

832
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,200
to the for workers. 
Right. 

833
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,600
And again to this guy, he has a 
lot of appeal. 

834
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,900
Except for the fact that it 
contradicts 200 years of human 

835
00:40:56,900 --> 00:41:00,500
history, where technological 
progress has been awesome for a 

836
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:02,700
living standards. 
Although of course, sometimes it

837
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:05,800
is bad for individual workers in
a particular affected industry, 

838
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:07,700
but you always have to. 
Remember, you're not just a 

839
00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:10,700
worker, you're also a consumer. 
So if there's a lot of progress 

840
00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:13,300
in your industry, but every 
other industry stagnant that can

841
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:16,300
indeed be bad for you. 
On the other hand, if there's 

842
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:18,700
progress in a bunch of 
Industries, including yours, 

843
00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:22,300
then obviously, this has been a 
fantastic Moon And every reason 

844
00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:25,600
we should think this feature in 
the future, I mean, really what 

845
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,100
I said is, selfishly speaking, 
when should want is open borders

846
00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:30,700
every occupation, except you're 
out. 

847
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,700
Yeah. 
So for me, the best world would 

848
00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:36,200
be where we have open borders, 
but we Deport all the foreign 

849
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,800
war professors. 
Right. 

850
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,800
That would be ideal for me 
because then I would get all 

851
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,200
kinds of great stuff produced by
people that are not professors, 

852
00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:47,500
but there would be much less 
competition in my field. 

853
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:51,200
And so I would have more money 
to spend on a much better basket

854
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,300
of goods, right? 
So there is that when you put it

855
00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:56,000
that way, you realize, all 
right, what about the deal, 

856
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,200
where there's open borders for 
all occupations, including your 

857
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,900
own and I say that that is 
especially long run a fantastic 

858
00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:06,200
deal. 
I wanted to get into the mindset

859
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,300
of someone who is passionately 
in The closed borders position 

860
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,400
and he says can all 7 billion 
people on the planet just 

861
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,400
wandering and walk around the 
roads. 

862
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:20,800
Can they set up tents and sleep 
on my side of the street 

863
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,500
forever? 
Another words at some point. 

864
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,500
We only have a we have a scarce 
amount of resources, whether 

865
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:28,800
they're provided coercively by 
the state or not. 

866
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,500
If we have so many immigrants 
Heavens, how can we possibly 

867
00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:36,300
take in all these people? 
Write something totally fair 

868
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:38,400
question. 
What I would say is, if all 

869
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,900
seven billion came today, it 
would be a complete disaster. 

870
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:45,200
However, all 7 billion are not 
going to come. 

871
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,400
Today. 
We have a lot of historical 

872
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,600
experience with how migration 
actually works. 

873
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,800
And the normal pattern is that 
if you open up immigration 

874
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,600
between two countries, that 
previously didn't allow it at 

875
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:59,100
first, it's just a trickle and 
then it gradually snowballs and 

876
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:01,500
over the course of years, and 
decades does become a large 

877
00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:04,900
number but in that case it's 
fine because it gives industry 

878
00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:08,500
plenty of time to build a new 
housing, create the new jobs. 

879
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,500
And even like, is this a pipe 
dream know, this is what 

880
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:12,300
happened to the United States a 
bunch of times. 

881
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:14,300
Right. 
So this is your so the United 

882
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:17,200
States when it got independence 
would have had about one percent

883
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,300
of the current population that 
it has. 

884
00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:22,500
Now. 
What happened was that partly? 

885
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:24,600
There's natural population 
increase, but a lot of that is 

886
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,100
immigration, if all if three or 
million people moved to the u.s.

887
00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:31,200
In 1789, that would have been a 
disaster. 

888
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:32,700
Right? 
In people be starving in the 

889
00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:34,500
streets. 
However, when you do it over the

890
00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:36,500
course of centuries, you can 
multiply population a 

891
00:43:36,508 --> 00:43:38,500
hundredfold and it's not only, 
is it fine. 

892
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:42,200
It's awesome. 
And now with a now, for the 

893
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,600
question of this mean that 
people could sleep in tents and 

894
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,400
so on no reason, there's no 
reason at all that you, this 

895
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,800
cannot steer that you can still 
have a currency laws and other 

896
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,500
things like that. 
So, me right now, of course, 

897
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:55,800
it's legal for anyone in the 
u.s. 

898
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,700
To move to New York City. 
There's a small amount of 

899
00:43:57,700 --> 00:43:58,400
homelessness. 
They are. 

900
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,500
Although it has very little to 
do with open it with the fact 

901
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:04,000
that you can move there and a 
lot more to do with policy of 

902
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,200
New York, City governments, but 
you know, what I would say, is 

903
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,700
that in terms All things like 
people sleeping on the streets. 

904
00:44:11,700 --> 00:44:14,300
There's already a bunch of laws 
and that are around, you know, 

905
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:17,000
that kind of thing. 
And you're wondering like 

906
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,400
wouldn't people just move to the
most desirable place all depends

907
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,900
upon real estate costs. 
So reason why there's right. 

908
00:44:21,900 --> 00:44:24,700
Now, a lot of people want to 
live in New York City except for

909
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:30,200
the cost of living right now, of
course, if we had both open 

910
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,600
borders and heavy deregulation 
of housing, then there would 

911
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,400
just be a very large building 
boom. 

912
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:38,200
But even there, there is a, 
there's a limit to how fast you 

913
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,800
can build a whole lot of housing
but But it's a lot faster than 

914
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,300
people think, right? 
So we can see how much housing 

915
00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:45,500
the building in Texas, were 
regulations, very light. 

916
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,300
Right? 
And we could do a lot more than 

917
00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:50,400
that. 
If we really actually wanted to 

918
00:44:51,100 --> 00:44:53,100
write in if demand was there, 
right. 

919
00:44:53,100 --> 00:44:56,600
So anyway, so, you know, the 
many like, you know, like are 

920
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,600
there examples of this or how 
does this work? 

921
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,400
So my favorite example, I talk 
about in the book is 1902, the 

922
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,000
US, Supreme Court, declared open
borders of Puerto Rico, an area,

923
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,700
much poorer than the United 
States at first only a few 

924
00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:11,300
thousand came. 
But then more came and more came

925
00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:14,300
it snowballed. 
And now about 100 years later 

926
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:17,000
more than half of people, Puerto
Rican descent live inside of the

927
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,100
50 United States, but there was 
never any big brother though. 

928
00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:23,000
There was never a big problem. 
This is the way that Puerto 

929
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,500
Ricans who did come they were 
very seamlessly integrated. 

930
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:28,500
They found a much better life 
for themselves. 

931
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:32,000
And along the way they made 
Puerto Rico, basically the 

932
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,500
richest place in the entire 
Caribbean. 

933
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:36,300
There was a hurricane so that 
throws off the comparison a 

934
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:40,100
little bit but in Puerto Rico 
was not a very Girish part of 

935
00:45:40,107 --> 00:45:42,600
the Caribbean when the u.s. 
Took over and now it's virtually

936
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,200
the richest part. 
And so it's not that brain drain

937
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,000
went and ruined it or anything 
like that and instead, allowing 

938
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,300
that open border and not only 
let a lot of people leave and 

939
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:54,500
make money but also allow the 
people that were left behind to 

940
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:56,200
go and enjoy a lot of other 
benefits. 

941
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,300
And so looks like it's been not 
only great for believers, but 

942
00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:02,600
they for the stairs, too. 
Sure. 

943
00:46:02,900 --> 00:46:08,200
Um, I recently went to Mill 
Avenue a place in Phoenix, 

944
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,500
Arizona, and I hadn't been there
in like 10 years. 

945
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,600
And the first thing I noticed is
that it went from like being 

946
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,400
like a, an all white all 
English-speaking town to like 

947
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,600
basically. 
Now, it's a lot of Indians are 

948
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,600
there and very few people speak 
English. 

949
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,100
One thing that just little 
Indians from India, Indians from

950
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:30,200
India, correct? 
Yes. 

951
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,000
Thank you. 
So, the first thing that hit me 

952
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,900
was, do I want this for the 
entire country? 

953
00:46:36,900 --> 00:46:39,700
Of course, the libertarian in 
me, says, I don't like something

954
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:43,400
I can I have a voluntary or 
violent way of trying to go 

955
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,600
about solving it so I can just 
do anything. 

956
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,500
I want. 
However, I did see the fear that

957
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:51,900
is in a lot of people's minds. 
When they say, my entire country

958
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:53,600
is changing. 
The culture is changing. 

959
00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:56,200
These people don't necessarily, 
we can't even speak the same 

960
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,200
language. 
Let alone the same values. 

961
00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:01,200
Do you think how do you respond 
to the major cultural? 

962
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,300
All downside that might happen 
as a causal result of an open 

963
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:09,000
border policy. 
So I'd be very surprised if a 

964
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,100
large area of Indians had. 
Many people that didn't speak 

965
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:13,900
English. 
I can leave that English isn't 

966
00:47:13,900 --> 00:47:16,700
their first language, but you 
know, so literally they actually

967
00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:18,900
didn't speak English at all. 
No, I'm sorry. 

968
00:47:18,900 --> 00:47:22,000
They were not speaking English. 
I'm sure they all probably spoke

969
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,600
English, but it was not the 
language. 

970
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,100
They were speaking amongst each 
other. 

971
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,200
So, I mean, I would say that 
your first thing a huge 

972
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,700
difference between English and 
not being your the language. 

973
00:47:30,700 --> 00:47:32,600
You're currently speaking. 
We're not speaking at all. 

974
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,900
So the cultural gap between 
someone with two languages, one 

975
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:39,000
of them being English, and 
someone who speaks only one 

976
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,800
language is in, it is in 
English. 

977
00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:43,200
It was between these two 
scenarios. 

978
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,800
I say these are night and day 
scenarios actually for purposes 

979
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,500
of assimilation, and labor force
participation and just being 

980
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:54,200
able to interact. 
So many gays in terms of 

981
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,800
language that, you know, this is
something where there's good 

982
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,200
data on it and it comes down to 
this. 

983
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,300
So, people that arrived in the 
u.s. 

984
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,800
It's not speak English. 
They've never actually become 

985
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,500
really fluent right with much 
frequency because learning a new

986
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:08,200
language fluently. 
When you're done was hard. 

987
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,600
However, 100 years ago, their 
chaos, their second generation 

988
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,200
immigrants, their kids learn to 
speak fluent English and this 

989
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,300
remains totally true today right
now when with the cease to be 

990
00:48:19,300 --> 00:48:20,800
true, I say that we see Speech, 
true. 

991
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,100
If you get an enormous number of
immigrants from a country where 

992
00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:28,500
they all speak the same language
and they are also very 

993
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:31,000
geographically, concentrated on 
the other hand, if you've got a 

994
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,800
lot of Rinse, but from a lot of 
different countries where they 

995
00:48:32,808 --> 00:48:35,300
don't speak the same language. 
Then again, English remains 

996
00:48:35,300 --> 00:48:37,900
focal language. 
And of course, around the world 

997
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:40,100
right now, English is already 
the vocal language the point 

998
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:42,000
where you can be a tourist 
almost anywhere on Earth and 

999
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,100
still very few countries. 
Do you struggle as a 

1000
00:48:45,107 --> 00:48:47,600
English-speaking tourist? 
Because you're almost always 

1001
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,100
find some people that do speak 
it. 

1002
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,200
So anyway, I would just say that
this is something we're 

1003
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:56,300
especially Market forces, but 
also just the desire for people 

1004
00:48:56,300 --> 00:48:57,800
to get a better life for 
themselves. 

1005
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,600
It's kind of a Market Force got,
you know, the old Bayou, but all

1006
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,200
of it is just so you'll call. 
Ya'll culture cultural 

1007
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,000
transmission means that there's 
actually a very high level of 

1008
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,000
linguistic, assimilation. 
And I go further and just say 

1009
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,300
that when you go and look at 
second generation, we rinse the 

1010
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:14,900
degree of cultural assimilation 
is also very high. 

1011
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:17,100
So I'm going to say again. 
This is not the kind of thing 

1012
00:49:17,100 --> 00:49:18,700
that makes too much sense to 
worry about. 

1013
00:49:18,900 --> 00:49:20,600
So you'll people worry about 
assimilation. 

1014
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:23,400
Usually, what they do is they 
look at Second Generation 

1015
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,600
migrants and they find any 
differences between them and the

1016
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,500
native one. 
And they're never hard to find. 

1017
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:33,000
I say this not a reasonable 
metric of assimilation. 

1018
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:36,500
What you want to do is to create
a Continuum where you have say, 

1019
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:38,500
the average person in India is 
at zero. 

1020
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:41,700
The average person in the u.s. 
Is at 100 and then you go and 

1021
00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:44,400
say, where would you put second 
generation immigrants from India

1022
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,800
on this year? 
100 scale? 

1023
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,700
And I'd say probably you put 
them in about somewhere between 

1024
00:49:49,700 --> 00:49:53,100
80 and 90. 
So to me, that means we have 80 

1025
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:55,900
to 90% of similarly 
assimilation, which is fine more

1026
00:49:55,900 --> 00:49:58,800
than enough for almost any 
practical purpose. 

1027
00:49:59,300 --> 00:50:01,000
And they say, if you need more 
than that, then you're just 

1028
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,600
being unreasonable. 
And especially when you realize 

1029
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,300
how much cultural change there 
is over time. 

1030
00:50:05,700 --> 00:50:07,700
So, I think my, my parents are 
both in their 80s. 

1031
00:50:08,100 --> 00:50:10,700
How culturally comfortable they 
feel in America right now. 

1032
00:50:11,900 --> 00:50:14,700
It's not at all. 
And it's not because of migrants

1033
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:17,100
primarily is because young 
people that are descended from 

1034
00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:19,300
them are two different from 
them, right? 

1035
00:50:19,300 --> 00:50:22,200
So, they grew up in the 1930s 
and they got a certain way 

1036
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,800
things were then. 
And then what happens is, it 

1037
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,400
happened is there were many 
parts their culture that they 

1038
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,700
failed to convince, the younger 
generation were worthwhile and 

1039
00:50:31,700 --> 00:50:35,000
so culture changed, right? 
And I say this kind of cultural 

1040
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,100
Change Is Us the flip side of 
freedom and the slogan saying 

1041
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:39,300
you have no right to your 
culture. 

1042
00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:41,500
Why not these cultures other 
people? 

1043
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,200
My mom doesn't have any right to
have her culture remained 

1044
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,700
Catholic because for that to be.
So it would have to deprive me 

1045
00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:51,000
of my freedom of religion. 
Right? 

1046
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,200
And once you can accept that, 
it's okay for cultures to change

1047
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,400
over time without migration. 
Then I don't see what this 

1048
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,500
moderate change. 
That you get from migration. 

1049
00:50:59,900 --> 00:51:01,900
We why? 
That's why, that special, or 

1050
00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:04,900
would justify anything further 
thing in my, oh my oh, my 

1051
00:51:04,900 --> 00:51:07,800
reaction to people complain 
about cultural change is always,

1052
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,400
maybe you're right. 
So why don't you sell your 

1053
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,500
culture promote it? 
Right? 

1054
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:14,200
Instead of complaining or trying
to stack the deck by saying, 

1055
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,200
people don't agree with you 
aren't allowed to be here. 

1056
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,000
How about you try to convert 
people, right? 

1057
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,200
In right now, of course. 
There are many countries on 

1058
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,000
Earth where their repressive 
governments that are desperately

1059
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,200
trying to keep Western and 
American especially American 

1060
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,100
culture out. 
Right? 

1061
00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:31,200
So Saudi Arabia doesn't want 
have American culture in there, 

1062
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:33,000
right? 
Iran does not want have American

1063
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,800
culture, the Ayatollah had this 
great word. 

1064
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,700
He called it West, toxification 
West, toxification. 

1065
00:51:38,700 --> 00:51:41,100
These Western ideas. 
Western attitudes, western 

1066
00:51:41,100 --> 00:51:44,300
movies, women, wearing skirts, 
all this stuff. 

1067
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,600
He says, that's poisonous coming
in, and we need to crush it. 

1068
00:51:47,900 --> 00:51:49,900
And I say there's a kernel of 
insight there. 

1069
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:51,600
Namely. 
IE if there's just free 

1070
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,900
competition between cultures, 
Western culture generally does 

1071
00:51:54,900 --> 00:51:59,500
win and this is going to be 
especially clear people can 

1072
00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:01,800
actually leave repressive 
countries and come to a place 

1073
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,800
where there's a free market and 
culture or something close to 

1074
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,800
it. 
And so with the Ayatollah can't 

1075
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,500
do it and I can't really do 
anything about it. 

1076
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,300
Terrific, I definitely recommend
reading the book, IT addresses 

1077
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:16,500
virtually all the primary 
rebuttals. 

1078
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:20,000
Someone would have to open 
borders, whether they're a 

1079
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,900
progressive, whether they're 
conservative or whether they're 

1080
00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:27,000
a Libertarian such as myself. 
I got three more questions for 

1081
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,000
you. 
They're all more or less the 

1082
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,800
same thing. 
What is the most important thing

1083
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,700
you learn from the work of Jason
Brennan? 

1084
00:52:33,700 --> 00:52:36,200
Most important work I learned 
for the from the work of Jason 

1085
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,200
Brennan. 
The actually pray. 

1086
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,200
A probably the thing though. 
His work that I've learned the 

1087
00:52:40,207 --> 00:52:43,200
most from. 
Is his why not capitalism, which

1088
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,700
is reply to Jerry Cohen's 
classic work. 

1089
00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:49,900
Why not socialism? 
And what's really neat? 

1090
00:52:49,900 --> 00:52:54,400
That Jason does the book is he 
just says, all right, look, we 

1091
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,200
can imagine a society of totally
cartoonishly, nice. 

1092
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:03,000
Sweet, people who still want to 
have capitalism and we can 

1093
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,700
imagine what that would be. 
Like and he relies very heavily 

1094
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:08,600
upon the Mickey Mouse clubhouse 
TV. 

1095
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,500
Show for kids. 
Ed's where he says, look there's

1096
00:53:10,500 --> 00:53:12,600
clearly Capital Society. 
All the characters don't stores 

1097
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,400
are in business is, but they're 
all really nice. 

1098
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:17,900
They're all really nice. 
And he says, in this is what's 

1099
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:20,400
wrong with Jerry Cohen spoke. 
As he talks about a society 

1100
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,000
where everyone is super nice in 
the Socialist, and Jason says, 

1101
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,400
look, really all the mileage is 
coming from the niceness and not

1102
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,800
from the difference of policy 
and it's not true that nice 

1103
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,900
people would necessarily want. 
Socialism, just in the same way 

1104
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:37,000
that a really nice person might 
not want to co-author a paper 

1105
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:39,000
with another person. 
They might want to write. 

1106
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,700
Singly so they can express 
themselves in a undiluted 

1107
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:45,100
fashion. 
So, to, in a capitalist Society 

1108
00:53:45,100 --> 00:53:46,800
really nice person might want to
run their own business. 

1109
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,200
They can do it their way, 
Express their individuality, and

1110
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,700
selling. 
That's, that's a really nice way

1111
00:53:51,700 --> 00:53:56,000
of explaining it, right. 
So anyway, so, you know that 

1112
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,700
they're so he takes what he 
verse media presents, the Jerry 

1113
00:53:59,700 --> 00:54:01,900
Cohen argument. 
And he really pervasive in this 

1114
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:05,300
very persuasive way of saying 
what do you want to be part of a

1115
00:54:05,300 --> 00:54:07,600
campaign group where everyone 
was buying and selling things 

1116
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,600
for everyone else? 
And people were Acting all 

1117
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,900
greedy and Jason says well, you 
know probably wouldn't would 

1118
00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:15,800
want to be in a nicer can't but 
it's the niceness that matters, 

1119
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,600
but we could also have an Eye 
Society based upon free market 

1120
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,800
principles. 
And in fact, he says that one 

1121
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,300
work better, right? 
And of course, it's not very 

1122
00:54:23,300 --> 00:54:26,400
nice to make someone follow the 
rules of your group when they 

1123
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,100
want to do their own thing. 
What is the most important thing

1124
00:54:30,100 --> 00:54:32,800
you learned from the work of 
Michael humor now? 

1125
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,100
So for Michael humor, I will 
actually go out really far and 

1126
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:39,600
say, there's a whole literature 
on whether you can teach a human

1127
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,500
being, how to think, right? 
Which is overall quite -. 

1128
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,100
But I would say if there were 
any hope that there were 

1129
00:54:46,100 --> 00:54:48,900
thinker, that could teach people
how to think that thinker would 

1130
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:52,800
be my humor because he doesn't 
just have positions on specific 

1131
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,500
issues because a general 
algorithm for how to think about

1132
00:54:56,500 --> 00:54:59,600
anything and the algorithm. 
Is an algorithm is this. 

1133
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:02,500
First of all, start with some 
premises, that would be 

1134
00:55:02,500 --> 00:55:08,500
plausible to almost anyone. 
All right, and that means almost

1135
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:11,600
anyone, right? 
It's not just sure I me my five 

1136
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:12,600
friends. 
All agree on this. 

1137
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,100
Now, start with some premises 
would be very broadly acceptable

1138
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:19,200
when you don't need to First 
have a whole world view before 

1139
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,000
you can see the appeal of the 
premise, right? 

1140
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:28,500
So that's Step One is, and then 
step two is try to construct an 

1141
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:30,700
argument. 
That were you reason very 

1142
00:55:30,700 --> 00:55:34,600
carefully from broadly accepted 
premises to an obvious 

1143
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,800
conclusion. 
So, that is the general method 

1144
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:42,000
that he uses and then I was also
seeing a secondary method that 

1145
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,100
the ability of the applies is to
say 4L. 

1146
00:55:46,100 --> 00:55:47,400
Yeah. 
Anytime you think that you've 

1147
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,800
got a very broadly acceptable, 
premise think really hard about 

1148
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,200
counter examples, that one and 
see whether there's any lessons 

1149
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:55,700
you can learn. 
And one lesson that you love 

1150
00:55:55,700 --> 00:56:01,200
that he or that he gets out of 
this is any principle where you 

1151
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,400
are, I'll go especially, you 
know, any any ethical political 

1152
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:04,600
principle where you just say 
this. 

1153
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,700
Something is always true 
regardless of anything else, 

1154
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:11,400
principles almost always wrong. 
I think of this as all one 

1155
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,600
sentence moral and political 
theories are wrong. 

1156
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,400
Right. 
Then, again. 

1157
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,200
It comes down to someone, you 
know, so, there's a Libertarian 

1158
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:21,500
one. 
Well, you should never initiate 

1159
00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:24,100
Force against anyone else. 
Well, how about, if you could 

1160
00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:26,900
steal a dime, to save the Earth?
How about that? 

1161
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:28,900
You still shouldn't steal the 
dime. 

1162
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,200
Right? 
Right, but it could also be 

1163
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:33,900
everything should be equal. 
All right, well, should be 

1164
00:56:33,908 --> 00:56:35,500
equal. 
What if half of humankind will 

1165
00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:37,300
die of starvation? 
If we equalised everything? 

1166
00:56:37,300 --> 00:56:40,000
Should we still do that, then? 
All right, so that kind of 

1167
00:56:40,008 --> 00:56:42,600
thing, right? 
So anyway, if you go and read 

1168
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,800
Mike's work, all of it does 
follow these you No principles 

1169
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,500
of thinking which I have found 
to be tremendously helpful and 

1170
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:51,600
it's something that also you can
apply out-of-sample. 

1171
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,400
So it's one thing to say some 
general principles that he gives

1172
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,700
you some examples and then you 
just repeat these examples, but 

1173
00:56:57,700 --> 00:57:00,600
I will say that you can apply 
this your Marion method to new 

1174
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,900
questions and they often have 
right and I have used this to 

1175
00:57:03,900 --> 00:57:08,900
get rid of many of my ridiculous
and dogmatic use because often 

1176
00:57:08,900 --> 00:57:12,000
there was some philosophical 
principle, but I held and then I

1177
00:57:12,008 --> 00:57:15,100
just thought well would this 
make sense to someone? 

1178
00:57:15,700 --> 00:57:17,800
With the same, we like doing. 
Who does this make sense to you?

1179
00:57:17,900 --> 00:57:20,400
Well, this premise makes sense 
to advise people. 

1180
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:26,000
Why do I even believe it is? 
It actually all that obvious and

1181
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:27,900
only to know. 
I mean, I believe it because I 

1182
00:57:27,908 --> 00:57:31,100
got really excited when I was 
young about this and I've been 

1183
00:57:31,300 --> 00:57:33,100
working it out at other people 
ever since. 

1184
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,300
Okay. 
Well, so let's stop doing that. 

1185
00:57:36,300 --> 00:57:37,800
And let's see. 
Is there any principally? 

1186
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,300
What principles would seem 
obvious to almost anyone who was

1187
00:57:41,300 --> 00:57:46,400
not in the grip of some other 
ideology and So me, I have apply

1188
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,000
this to many other issues, and I
think I've just gotten a lot of 

1189
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,500
mileage out of it. 
So soon for personal growth and 

1190
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:56,500
for understanding the world. 
So for example, I don't like 

1191
00:57:56,500 --> 00:57:58,400
until you actually reviewed my 
book, the case against 

1192
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,100
education. 
I don't think my humor really 

1193
00:58:00,100 --> 00:58:01,800
wrote anything notable and 
education. 

1194
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,500
But if you read the book, you'll
see that it's very humor 

1195
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:09,000
influenced because so much of 
the book is about trying to find

1196
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,900
premises about the education 
system that will make sense to 

1197
00:58:11,900 --> 00:58:16,800
almost anyone things. 
Like if you could Either gets 

1198
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,900
the clay or learn the material 
in a class but not but not 

1199
00:58:19,900 --> 00:58:22,300
getting an F in the class or you
get an A but not learn the 

1200
00:58:22,300 --> 00:58:25,400
material, which would actually 
more helpful for your career. 

1201
00:58:26,700 --> 00:58:29,400
This is something as a Mike. 
Didn't teach me to ask that but 

1202
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,700
this is the kind of question 
that you start asking. 

1203
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,100
Once you take my humorous 
thought seriously, and it does 

1204
00:58:35,100 --> 00:58:36,300
lead very naturally do. 
Yeah. 

1205
00:58:36,300 --> 00:58:38,700
Well most people would rather 
have the grade without the 

1206
00:58:38,700 --> 00:58:42,200
learning, the learning about the
grade and that along with many 

1207
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,000
other, similar questions are 
really the inspiration for the 

1208
00:58:45,008 --> 00:58:46,500
book. 
And yeah, there's a lot of other

1209
00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:51,000
books also as a lot of research 
in it, but a great part of it is

1210
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,900
just be you trying to start with
premises that will be plausible 

1211
00:58:54,100 --> 00:58:56,400
to someone who wasn't 
dogmatically convinced. 

1212
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,000
Every class you're taking is 
pouring skill into you. 

1213
00:59:00,500 --> 00:59:03,100
And finally, thank you for going
over time with me. 

1214
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,000
What is the most important thing
you learned from Ian? 

1215
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,100
Rand was more than that. 
I learned from Iran's. 

1216
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,800
Let's see. 
So I knew very little when I 

1217
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,700
started reading her so at makes 
it easier. 

1218
00:59:15,300 --> 00:59:19,100
Let's see. 
So, see thinking you probably 

1219
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:23,900
the most important thing that I 
learned from her is that what we

1220
00:59:23,900 --> 00:59:25,900
think of as philosophical 
skepticism and a lot of 

1221
00:59:25,908 --> 00:59:28,200
different varieties is really to
self-contradictory. 

1222
00:59:28,500 --> 00:59:31,400
So this idea of Really? 
The only thing we know is that 

1223
00:59:31,408 --> 00:59:33,900
we know nothing. 
It's like wait a second. 

1224
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:37,000
How do you know that doesn't 
that statement is contradict 

1225
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,500
itself. 
So ends, you know, she's very 

1226
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:42,300
good at pointing out many other 
flaws like that saying things 

1227
00:59:42,300 --> 00:59:45,900
like like you can't, you know, 
you can't even know that you 

1228
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:48,600
exist. 
It's like I don't exist and how 

1229
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,900
am I even listening to you? 
Right? 

1230
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:52,900
So why don't you know, she 
doesn't have many things. 

1231
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,000
Many things along those lines 
where, you know, these are 

1232
00:59:56,100 --> 00:59:58,900
mostly will be, would just call 
philosophical self isms. 

1233
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,800
But and in Korea, I'm not saying
that she originated this because

1234
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,300
your question was, what did I 
learn from her? 

1235
01:00:03,300 --> 01:00:05,400
There are other people have made
the same kind of argument. 

1236
01:00:05,700 --> 01:00:09,900
But it was from her that I 
learned the to that that there 

1237
01:00:09,900 --> 01:00:13,000
are many popular statements. 
What we call skeptical and 

1238
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,100
realistic philosophy, that 
really are just totally wrong 

1239
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,400
and that's been a big influence 
on me. 

1240
01:00:20,100 --> 01:00:25,200
In terms of inspiration. 
She has a lot of great poetry 

1241
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,700
about the value of reason, but I
would say that she was not 

1242
01:00:27,700 --> 01:00:29,200
actually that good at reasoning.
Her. 

1243
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,100
Alf Emily because she just 
didn't know any empirical 

1244
01:00:33,100 --> 01:00:35,500
psychology. 
So I don't think that, you know,

1245
01:00:35,500 --> 01:00:37,500
so that you like psychologist, 
for example, to talk about 

1246
01:00:37,500 --> 01:00:40,600
social desirability bias, right?
And they got a lot of evidence 

1247
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,100
on it and ran was unaware of it.
As far as I know. 

1248
01:00:43,300 --> 01:00:45,400
She might have some statements 
that indicated that she figured 

1249
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,100
it out, but that the but still 
that's not nearly as good as 

1250
01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:52,300
actually documenting it or 
things like confirmation bias. 

1251
01:00:52,500 --> 01:00:55,400
One thing that you will not see 
much of an her about which is 

1252
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,600
fundamental to rationality is 
anytime you have a view that 

1253
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:00,600
make sense. 
You always ask yourself. 

1254
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:02,200
What are the best reason to 
think I'm wrong. 

1255
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:04,800
And that's not a very radiant 
question to ask. 

1256
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,900
And so while it is a fundamental
part of reason, it's and she has

1257
01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:12,200
some great poetry about reason, 
but I'll call it inspire, you 

1258
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,000
know, it's inspiring. 
But if you really want to be 

1259
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,400
reasonable, you got to learn a 
lot more than what's in it, 

1260
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,200
which is what she says. 
And in fact, you know, in a way 

1261
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,800
do as she says, do not as she 
does, so live a life of reason, 

1262
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,700
but that requires that you learn
a lot about the fundamental 

1263
01:01:27,700 --> 01:01:29,200
errors that human beings are 
prone to. 

1264
01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:31,900
To and then try to root them out
as best you can. 

1265
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,500
Mr. Kaplan. 
Thank you so much for your time 

1266
01:01:35,500 --> 01:01:37,200
today. 
I want to finish with a quote 

1267
01:01:37,300 --> 01:01:41,800
from page 16 of the science and 
ethics of immigration. 

1268
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:46,900
If a foreigner wants to accept a
job from a willing employer. 

1269
01:01:46,900 --> 01:01:49,800
What moral, right? 
Does anyone have to stop them. 

1270
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,600
Thanks for watching Keith, and I
don't tread on anyone and thank 

1271
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,000
you. 
Mr. Kaplan for joining me. 

1272
01:01:54,300 --> 01:01:55,700
All right, it's great pleasure. 
Thanks a lot.