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Or I would get started. 
Tell everyone in the audience 

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who was listening, either live 
or listening later to the 

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recording of this who you are, 
what you believe. 

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Tell us about your book and 
we'll get started. 

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My name is Keith Knight. 
I am managing editor at the 

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Libertarian Institute. 
My belief is in advocating 

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libertarianism, or the belief 
that human beings should 

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cooperate peacefully, as opposed
to some having the right to 

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coerce others, whether that's in
their private lives or whether 

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they use the state as a 
surrogate to coerce others. 

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So basically, nothing in life is
something that we do by ourself.

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Even if you are just reading 
this book, Domestic Imperialism 

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yourself, you didn't build the 
computer which allowed you to 

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order the book. 
You didn't generate your own 

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electricity, which allowed that 
computer to work. 

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You didn't put the ink on the 
paper, you didn't chop down the 

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trees to make the paper. 
So we're constantly cooperating.

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The false divide progressives 
are always giving us is there's 

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things we do together and then 
things we do alone. 

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Just by talking, you're using 
words that other people have 

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spent thousands of years working
on. 

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So we're constantly engaged in 
actions that are affecting other

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people, and we're constantly 
cooperating. 

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So the central question of my 
book is, should people achieve 

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their ends through a cooperative
mechanism, which means people 

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have the right to freely 
disassociate with bad actors? 

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Or do some people, the state, 
have the right to coerce others 

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under the guise of helping the 
working masses, helping 

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minorities, helping women, or 
helping whatever demographic 

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they claim to be? 
So that's who I am. 

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That's where I work, Libertarian
Institute, and that is a general

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overview of my belief system. 
OK, very good. 

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So, so tell me I I immediately 
recognize by the way what you're

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saying. 
Perhaps it wasn't original to 

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him, but it's best articulated 
by Leonard Reid's thesis I 

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pencil. 
So I I I believe you've you've 

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read that and that's I think 
that's really a a very 

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integrated way to see the world.
It's a very rich way of seeing 

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the world and I think that it 
really gives form to the idea of

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a social interaction as a means 
of both progress and 

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maintenance, right. 
Progress of of humanity and 

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maintenance of society, right. 
So I think that absolutely it's 

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it's beautiful. 
So before I get into the book 

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and it's contents, I want to 
know more about your personal 

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ideological journey. 
When was the moment the one 

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moment? 
Well, first of all, let me ask 

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this, when you were a 
progressive, what did an average

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day look like to you in terms of
consuming information, in terms 

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of, in terms of viewing certain 
events, certain ways in terms of

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studying and reading? 
Were you a progressor that was 

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in who was intent on 
understanding the the tradition 

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which your thought came from and
understanding concepts like 

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classic quality and workers 
rights and things of that sort? 

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Or were you simply ballast, as 
most people are in these cases, 

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simply absorbing information 
like a sponge without ever 

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actually analyzing it and 
interpreting it? 

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There was a lot of analysis and 
a lot of historical references. 

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It's very common that people 
don't arrive at conclusions, you

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know, through a lot of logic and
reason, just because the cost of

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doing so is so high. 
You have to read so many books, 

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discuss so many things with so 
many people. 

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So when you have historical 
narratives to lean on. 

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For example, Franklin Roosevelt 
got us out of the Great 

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Depression, LBJ gave us the 
Great Society, and Barack Obama 

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got us over the hurdle of 
racism. 

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West America finally electing a 
black progressive into the White

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House. 
So I was constantly not looking 

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at the ideological origins, like
I hadn't read Woodrow Wilson's 

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The New Freedom, but I was 
constantly looking for examples 

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of history as to where this idea
came from, which gives you a lot

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of grounding and much more 
confidence that you didn't just 

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come up with something all on 
your own, you're actually part 

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of a historical process. 
So that was pretty important for

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me. 
As far as the day-to-day goes, I

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would watch MSNBC quite a bit. 
It seemed like there were two 

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groups generally, those who 
cared about the poor and those 

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who did not care about the poor 
at all, or not necessarily the 

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poor, but those who are in 
vulnerable positions overall. 

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So when this dichotomy was 
presented to me, I had just 

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said, well, looks like the 
Democrats are basically the 

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party I should get behind. 
But the Democrats can be very 

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establishment. 
And so, you know, some of these 

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places that could be called the 
left end up being just old boys 

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clubs and get bought off by 
corporations. 

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So progressivism was sort of the
silver lining of the Democratic 

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Party that that that I 
supported. 

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Interesting. 
So tell me about this then. 

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What was that moment? 
OK, when did you begin seeing 

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cracks in the armor? 
At what point did you begin 

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seeing cracks in the armor? 
Because what you described to 

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me, you described to me. 
You're correct. 

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I think that you're correct that
most people don't know why with 

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their political conclusions by 
means of a deep reason or 

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research. 
It's unfortunate because this is

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not a necessary fact of human 
life. 

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In fact, it's a aberration of 
previous generations, right? 

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If you think of the the literacy
of the founding generation, that

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every household, at least 
according to most estimates, had

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at least one book in it, and 
that one book tended to be 

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either some philosophy book or 
most commonly the Bible, then 

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you would see that a lot of 
people at least had some 

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anchoring to the transcendent, 
some anchoring something beyond 

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their own experiences in their 
lives. 

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Whereas today, in this I don't 
want to say this modern world is

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rather this postmodern world. 
The subjective intuition is 

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prided and emphasized over 
external searching for truth and

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meaning. 
And that has basically allowed 

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people to become prisoners of 
their own epistemic errors. 

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Which then of course translates 
into creating political errors. 

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Because if a entire voting 
populace is led by errors of 

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knowledge and they transfer 
those into their how they vote, 

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how they think about politics, 
you'll ultimately get a system 

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that reflects that. 
But also you get a non engaged 

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public by that as well because 
they can't see beyond 

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themselves. 
So why? 

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What's the need to engage? 
So no, I think that's very 

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interesting. 
So tell me, when did you start 

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seeing cracks in the armor, so 
to speak? 

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So here is the first major crack
and This is why I opened the 

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book with it. 
I don't give my background 

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story, but I give the example of
what really changed my mind. 

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There was a mass murder that 
took place on June 12th, 2016. 

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It's referred to as the Pulse 
nightclub massacre. 

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And the terrorist Omar Mateen 
went into the nightclub, killed 

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49 people, injured 53 and 
actually called 911 to amplify 

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his motives for doing this. 
So here is how Barack Obama 

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summarized the event. 
And it's important to know 

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Barack Obama was not seen as 
your average Democrat. 

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He was the progressive who was 
going to rein in the banks, you 

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know, represent the workers, 
initiate that equal pay for 

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women and all this other, you 
know, progressive platforms. 

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Barack Obama said this was an 
attack on the LGBT community. 

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Americans were targeted because 
we're a country that has learned

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to welcome everyone, no matter 
who you are or who you love. 

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And hatred towards people 
because of sexual orientation, 

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regardless of where it comes 
from, is a betrayal of what's 

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best in us. 
So I remember hearing that and 

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being very curious as to what 
this terrorist would have said. 

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Because much like a protest, the
goal of terrorism is to amplify 

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your motives as opposed to 
conceal them. 

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So he gets his moment in the 
spotlight for committing this 

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atrocity, this shortcut to fame.
What does he say? 

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We actually have the 911 
transcript from Mateen's call. 

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Here's what he said. 
You have to tell America to stop

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bombing Syria and Iraq. 
They are killing a lot of 

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innocent people. 
What am I to do here when my 

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people are getting killed over 
there? 

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You get what I'm saying. 
You need to stop the US air 

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strikes. 
They need to stop the US air 

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strikes. 
You have to tell the US 

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government to stop bombing. 
They are killing too many 

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children. 
They are killing too many women.

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OK, so when I first came across 
that, I said OK, It turns out 

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that the sitting president can 
just explicitly lie about the 

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motives of an attack and the 
press is not going to really 

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call him out about this. 
This was so mind blowing for me 

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that he mentions nothing about 
hatred of homosexuals, mentions 

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nothing about hatred of 
Christians or Floridians. 

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Even though the attack took 
place in Florida, it was against

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young people. 
He didn't say anything about the

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young people. 
It was a result of blowback as a

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causal result of American 
foreign policy. 

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I cite the Council on Foreign 
Relations. 

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This year, 2016, the US 
government dropped a 24,000 

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bombs on Iraq and Syria, killing
a large number of civilians. 

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According to the Intercept, 
research they did indicates that

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nine out of every 10 people 
killed by these bombings were 

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not the intended target. 
So this was really big for me. 

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I said, you know, I was so wrong
about this issue. 

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I had more or less assumed that 
the press and the president was 

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telling the truth. 
So once I was so humbled at 

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that, and President Bush also 
did the same thing many years 

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earlier, I was so humbled at 
that. 

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I said, you know, instead of 
walking into every conversation 

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is the way things ought to be is
I should just say what do I 

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know? 
And on a scale of one to 10, how

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sure am I 'cause you? 
I mean, it's just impossible to 

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know so much about so many wide 
issues. 

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I can say I'm a 10 on these 
issues, but on these I'm A2 or 

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A3 and what's my justification? 
So once I saw the sitting 

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president blatantly lying, this 
is not something I really 

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thought could take place. 
But that's when I really started

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to open my eyes. 
I would say that was the unique 

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point in my progressive journey 
where I was at least open to 

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saying I think I could be wrong 
about this whole approach of 

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dividing people based on race, 
gender, nationality, income, and

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there's a much more true divide 
that we can have and the Bible 

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says it. 
When the Bible says thou shalt 

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not murder, thou shalt not 
steal. 

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00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,160
These are genuine principles 
which can differentiate good 

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people from bad, whereas 
progressives are constantly 

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dividing people based 
arbitrarily. 

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00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,400
Yes, no, that's absolutely 
correct. 

194
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,160
This thing about machine, when 
that story actually happened, 

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00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,160
when it first came out, there 
was speculation about his own 

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00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,720
sexuality, which of course there
was never anything inclusive 

197
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,240
found. 
His father said that he wasn't, 

198
00:10:58,520 --> 00:10:59,680
you know, that way and things 
like that. 

199
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,880
He didn't seem to have any, 
although people did. 

200
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,600
There are patrons of the club 
that claimed he had frequented 

201
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,800
it before. 
We of course, we don't know if 

202
00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,600
that was true either, but it's 
very curious that he chose that 

203
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,520
particular location when he 
could have chosen the hundreds 

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00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,120
of other locations that may have
even made more of a point. 

205
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,000
Perhaps even like a not not 
getting any more ideas or got. 

206
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,720
I'm just in like a post office, 
maybe something like that and 

207
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,960
that's that. 
But regardless of the truth of 

208
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,640
the connection, it's the goal of
the person who does proximity 

209
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,840
ethics, to consider though 
something is right or wrong on 

210
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,480
the basis of what it is close to
as opposed to what it actually 

211
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:42,120
is in genuine principle to 
confuse these kind of things to 

212
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,520
make, to make their own agenda 
seem plausible. 

213
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,720
And I think that's what Barack 
Obama was doing, that's what the

214
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,600
progressives were doing, that's 
what the media was doing. 

215
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,480
And so it's very interesting 
that you noticed that though, 

216
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,880
because a lot of folks, 
including at that time I think 

217
00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,160
the GOP, Paul Ryan, came out 
after that story and said we 

218
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:06,320
support the LGBT community. 
So if even the GOP was was 

219
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,360
captured by this mediocre 
thought form, how did you see 

220
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,880
through it? 
Did you just do more research? 

221
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,000
You'd fall into a like a rabbit 
hole. 

222
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,640
Did you listen to a podcast? 
Like, how did it happen? 

223
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:21,400
You know, it's not that I didn't
care to see problems with the 

224
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,400
GOP. 
I just kind of expected it from 

225
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,600
them. 
I did not expect it from the 

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00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,880
progressive who I thought had my
back through thick and thin. 

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00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,000
I originally came across it when
researching at the Mises 

228
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,320
Institute. 
Their website has a large 

229
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,960
collection of things just went 
down rabbit holes and eventually

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00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,040
came across this story. 
Wow, interesting. 

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00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:48,840
Interesting. 
Well, and that's that's often 

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00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,520
times that what happens, right? 
Often times you don't really see

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00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,960
a progressive to what you call 
yourself libertarian or Ana 

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00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,640
capitalist or what exactly? 
OK, let's say libertarian as an 

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00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,480
umbrella term. 
You don't really see a 

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00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,040
progressive libertarian 
pipeline. 

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00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,440
But the inverse seems to be a 
concept in the media. 

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00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,760
Libertarian to all right 
pipeline, right. 

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00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,200
That's a very big concept 
amongst a lot of folks in the 

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00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,200
established media like the 
Washington Post. 

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00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,440
What's your opinion? 
Do both of these pipelines 

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00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,280
exist? 
If so, which one is pushing 

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00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,000
forth more more people through 
it as opposed to the other? 

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00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,120
You know that I would have to 
give a little more thought to. 

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00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,480
I can say that I've met a large 
number of libertarians who came 

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00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,600
over after being progressives. 
Because when you're progressive,

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you already see the world 
through these divides. 

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00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,000
Sometimes it's boss and worker, 
sometimes it's black versus 

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00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,080
white. 
Even immigrant verse citizen can

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00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,400
be a big divide of Bernie 
Sanders got some heat when he 

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00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,640
said that. 
Well, something like open 

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00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,320
borders is just a Koch brothers 
policy and we shouldn't really 

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00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,160
encourage large amounts of 
immigration. 

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00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,720
That seems like a another false 
divide to me. 

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00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,920
So once I already had the 
divides down, I started slowly 

256
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,880
chipping away at them. 
So this idea that I genuinely 

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00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:16,240
thought until an embarrassingly 
late age that America was 

258
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,520
basically the only place where 
slavery had ever been practiced,

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00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,360
because not because a teacher at
school necessarily said that, 

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00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,200
but it was just so heavily 
implied when they say the unique

261
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,000
thing about America is the 
Declaration of Independence, but

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00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,480
also slavery. 
So I had never really looked 

263
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,240
into this. 
So when I came across the code 

264
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,520
of Urnamu, one of the oldest 
legal codes known to history, to

265
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,720
see the word slave mentioned 
multiple times in ancient 

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00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,160
Mesopotamia, thousands of years 
before Christ was around, that 

267
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,040
really surprised me. 
So instead of having this, well,

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00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,080
America's the bad guy, well, how
many current living Americans 

269
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,520
were slave owners? 
And does this mean that all 

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00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,880
people who you know are 
descendants of potential slave 

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00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,440
owners, that they, we should, 
you know, see them as potential 

272
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,000
enemies? 
So once I started chipping away 

273
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:13,280
at the really false divides, it 
just inevitably led me to all 

274
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,960
right, we have to have some 
method of differentiating the 

275
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,360
good people from the bad. 
So people who choose to engage 

276
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,880
in things like fraudulent 
interactions, people who use 

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00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,680
coercion or threats thereof, 
that's a genuine person who we 

278
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,880
should say is evil, and we can 
justly vilify them. 

279
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,600
But so many things were just 
based on accidents of birth that

280
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,000
I was ready for the divide. 
But the progressive divide just 

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00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,240
kept chipping away all the time.
The main one you see is the 

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00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,440
black versus white divide, where
they're constantly using 

283
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,960
demographics to play off to play
one off against the other. 

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00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,520
So when I was just used to 
saying that whites are generally

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00:15:54,760 --> 00:16:00,280
the problem overall, well, the 
evidence lies in the fact that 

286
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,720
there's a disparity among the 
black population and those who 

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00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,960
are arrested or assaulted by 
police officers. 

288
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,360
It took a long time for me to 
come across Thomas Olswork, who 

289
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:17,080
said, well, men are 50% of the 
population and they're 95% of 

290
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,880
those killed by police. 
What does that tell us? 

291
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,640
The police are sexist against 
men. 

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00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,640
Turns out that whites don't even
have the highest incomes in this

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00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,920
white supremacist society. 
You have Taiwanese Americans, 

294
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,360
Nigerian Americans, Vietnamese 
Americans. 

295
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,640
What stupid white supremacists 
are running the show here? 

296
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,560
And it turns out black 
immigrants who have a different 

297
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,560
culture have higher incomes than
native blacks. 

298
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,400
So the idea that I was just 
vilifying people based off 

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00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,880
country or skin color, it turns 
out I became the very thing that

300
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,840
I thought I was against. 
Yeah, no, I think that it's 

301
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,840
interesting. 
Both the progressives and the 

302
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,800
actual white supremacist, the 
actual white identitarians who 

303
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,440
use the argument about white 
supremacy in that direction, 

304
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,720
both of their points are equally
disproven by empiricism. 

305
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,119
When you look at the achievement
rates of Nigerian Americans, the

306
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,800
white supremacist pro point is 
proven. 

307
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:19,400
And so is the black victimhood A
narrative disproven at the same 

308
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,240
time. 
It took me a long time to 

309
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,599
realize that. 
But it really goes to this idea 

310
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,400
that you have also mentioned the
book closer to the end of it, 

311
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:29,880
when you're talking about 
National Socialism and Democrat 

312
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,680
Socialism, about these things 
having the same genus but just 

313
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,200
manifesting in different forms, 
right. 

314
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,440
Which I want to get to that in a
little bit because I found that 

315
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,520
curious, and I've heard that 
before, But the way you've 

316
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,320
explained it was very precise, 
but I wanted to touch on 

317
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,360
something else. 
So you another one of the 

318
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:50,600
reasons why you left 
Progressivism. 

319
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,800
According to your book, you have
a chapter called Consent of the 

320
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,120
Governed and Game Errors. 
So the second part of that 

321
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:01,440
interests me quite a bit. 
And so you you begin in this 

322
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,720
chapter by saying that 
progressive victory, I quote 

323
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,280
progressive victory to legalize 
gay marriage in a predominantly 

324
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,160
Christian country. 
This was justified from many 

325
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,560
different standpoints, among 
them being that they are adults,

326
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:16,600
straight people, that kind of 
stuff. 

327
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,240
And then after you list all 
these points, you say that all 

328
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,080
it took for me to lead 
progressivism was for me to take

329
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,120
this principle of free 
association between consenting 

330
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,960
adults and apply it consistently
in the economic realm. 

331
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,040
So are you saying that the 
progressive stance on gay 

332
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,240
marriage actually allows you to 
translate into a different 

333
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,280
context A justification against 
progressive thinking and 

334
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,920
economics? 
Yes, simply because instead of 

335
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,080
using the talking points at some
point, you repeat it so often 

336
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,480
that you end up extracting the 
very principle. 

337
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,240
So for all the objections to gay
marriage, it really just came 

338
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,800
down to these are consenting 
adults and marriage is just a 

339
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,200
contract. 
So, well, is it OK to, you know,

340
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,000
marry little kids? 
Well, now, you're not dealing in

341
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000
the realm of consenting adults. 
So if we say that people should 

342
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,760
really be empowered to, you 
know, live the lives that they 

343
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,560
want, interact with who they 
desire to, well, marriage is one

344
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,360
thing that you do. 
Some people do it multiple 

345
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,120
times. 
But the economic realm is 

346
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:27,440
something you're constantly, 
constantly engaged in in every 

347
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,200
moment of your life. 
Even when you choose to do you 

348
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,720
know nothing or just hang out, 
well, that's you actively 

349
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,200
disassociating from all of the 
other potential things you could

350
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,800
be doing. 
So the progressive clearly see 

351
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,600
this when it comes to attempts 
to restrict voting rights. 

352
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,880
They'll say it is terrible if 
you need a license in order to 

353
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,800
vote. 
This hurts the most vulnerable 

354
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:54,280
people in society. 
But they don't see that having, 

355
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,200
you know, requiring dozens of 
licenses and all of these 

356
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,640
training degrees in order to get
your foot in the door at a job 

357
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,600
you really want. 
They don't see how that 

358
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,560
absolutely crushes people's 
dreams of, you know, achieving. 

359
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,480
Whatever career they'd like to 
be in. 

360
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,600
So they go for more entry level 
jobs and they have a less 

361
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,240
likelihood of getting on the job
experience in something that 

362
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,640
they want. 
Getting their foot in the door, 

363
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,080
developing a network in this 
area and it makes people far 

364
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,400
less successful than they 
otherwise would be. 

365
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,080
So this constant restricting of 
choice is something that the 

366
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,200
progressives are frequently 
advocating. 

367
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,320
Now there is something, the 
paradox of choice, where it 

368
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,120
turns out the more options you 
have, the less satisfied you 

369
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,280
will be. 
Because whatever you choose, 

370
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,360
there were 100 other things that
could have been much better, and

371
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,000
it can get overwhelming. 
If there's two options on the 

372
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,600
menu, you'll most likely be 
happy with whatever you got. 

373
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,360
If there's 300 items on the 
menu, like The Cheesecake 

374
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:53,200
Factory, whatever you get, 
you're like, oh, I could have 

375
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,440
gotten something much better. 
So this is sometimes justified 

376
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,920
as see more choices isn't always
better. 

377
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,520
So I can actually agree with 
that. 

378
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,200
The progressive will frequently 
say Bernie Sanders saying, well 

379
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,680
look at all these deodorant 
options and all these toothpaste

380
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,760
options. 
This is just terrible and 

381
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,720
redundant. 
The question is not should 

382
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,080
people have choices that are in 
high quantity or low quantity. 

383
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,120
The question is who's going to 
decide either? 

384
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:25,040
People decide for themselves, 
but when I say for themselves, 

385
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,200
they're looking at Yelp reviews,
they're looking at brand names, 

386
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,760
they're talking to other people 
who have consumed the product. 

387
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,240
So they are the ultimate 
decision maker. 

388
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,320
In the end, what I'm saying is 
not that that's a perfect 

389
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:41,200
system, but it's far superior to
having surrogate decision makers

390
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,560
in the form of politicians who 
do not give you the option to 

391
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,520
try new things to get your foot 
in the door without occupational

392
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:55,200
licensing, to build buildings 
without a very high number of 

393
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,640
permits which make it so it's so
costly to expand your 

394
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,480
operations. 
This creates the very 

395
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,400
oligopolies that progressive say
we have to watch out for cause 

396
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,280
Walmart and Amazon are 
constantly able to afford all 

397
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,840
this stuff, all of these, you 
know, regulation, compliance 

398
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,400
costs. 
But the average person is not. 

399
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,440
So they go into lower fields and
end up staying there longer than

400
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,280
they otherwise would. 
So this constant coercive 

401
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:24,080
restriction by the state of 
progressives was really a a 

402
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,040
major reason that I left 
progressivism. 

403
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,680
And in order to really justify 
the move, you kind of have to 

404
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,680
build yourself mentally a golden
bridge to retreat across. 

405
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,760
So it was hard to say no. 
I guess I've been wrong about 

406
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,280
everything for you know, the 
last, you know 2000 Facebook 

407
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,880
posts or something. 
So when I sort of had that gay 

408
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,480
marriage bridge to retreat 
across of yet, you know this 

409
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,080
thing we've constantly been 
saying and harping on of how 

410
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,280
important it is to give 
consenting adults the option to 

411
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,040
make big decisions in their 
lives. 

412
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,120
Yeah, that's what I believe in 
just more realms than this one. 

413
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:03,520
So yes, that is the gay marriage
to volunteerism pipeline that 

414
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:08,040
that that I had. 
Let's get a little bit nerdy in 

415
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,360
terms of the IT matter of 
consent. 

416
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,440
A lot of people don't realize, 
and you do because you've 

417
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,720
covered it in your book and I've
watched you on other shows as 

418
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,800
well. 
But a lot of people don't 

419
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,880
realize just how gargantuan of a
moral concept the idea of 

420
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,520
consent is, and just how radical
it is in the history of the 

421
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,400
world. 
More folks know how radical it 

422
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,440
is in the history of the world 
than know how gargantuan is. 

423
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,360
Because reflexively, a lot of 
people in Western society, 

424
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,400
reflexively, when they are 
confronted with immoral choice, 

425
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,680
consent will be the fundamental 
harm hallmark of their moral 

426
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,480
thinking. 
That'll be the reference point. 

427
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,720
Sometimes harm will be too. 
And often times I always argue 

428
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,960
that when consent and harm are 
joined together in harmony, they

429
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,000
are able to make for the best 
moral decision making. 

430
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,240
But sometimes just consent. 
And recently from the right, 

431
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,840
there's been an attack on this 
concept. 

432
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,520
They call it consent based 
morality from the the post 

433
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,480
liberals. 
They call themselves people who 

434
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,160
are skeptical of America's 
classical liberal foundation to 

435
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,240
believe that the reason my 
society has so much decay and 

436
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,360
chaos today is because of the 
excesses of this sort of 

437
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,080
individualism. 
They call it atomization and 

438
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,840
they'll call it consent based 
morality, where nothing is 

439
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,600
sacred and everything is just a 
transactional set of two wills 

440
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:41,680
merging together in space. 
How does Someone Like You, who 

441
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,400
uses first principles, who very 
clearly cares about a certain 

442
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,840
kind of morality, deal with 
those critiques in an effective 

443
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,960
way? 
Because on the one hand, it is 

444
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:59,960
absolutely true that to simply 
say consent should be the golden

445
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:03,880
standard of all morality. 
That's not satisfying. 

446
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,520
It's not satisfying because the 
moral realm is not simply a 

447
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:14,280
matter of human choice. 
The moral realm is also a matter

448
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,080
of human persuasion. 
It's also a matter of belief, 

449
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,000
matter of values, a matter of 
social influences. 

450
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,800
It's a matter of a bunch of 
things. 

451
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:31,120
It's a matter of duties of 
obligations, so many different 

452
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:37,200
things and other ideas and 
motivations and laws that may 

453
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,760
inform how 1 uses their choice. 
And so one of the reasons that I

454
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,840
think, and this is one of 
Lucas's libertarianism, I think,

455
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,120
is that libertarians, when it 
comes to social and cultural 

456
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:54,680
issues, all they can say is, 
well, I personally believe this 

457
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,440
in my own capacity, but you do 
what you want. 

458
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,880
OK, well, if we're thinking 
about these things on the 

459
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,840
political realm, thought that is
the just answer. 

460
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,160
But the political realm does not
encompass everything else, or at

461
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,440
least it shouldn't in all 
reality. 

462
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,960
It has a lot more influence than
it should, but it shouldn't. 

463
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,200
So they're they're more thinking
in terms of how politics should 

464
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,600
be run, is oftentimes completed 
with more thinking on the 

465
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,720
cultural and social level, which
is concerning. 

466
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,000
So what do you think about all 
that I just said? 

467
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,960
So it's not that I'm advocating 
anyone do what they want, and 

468
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,880
I'm fine. 
The question is, who's going to 

469
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,680
have the standards either? 
People are going to choose their

470
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,600
own standards and associate with
people who they have standards, 

471
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,120
who they appreciate based on how
they talk, how they act, if they

472
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,960
show up on time, if they're 
polite, if they're hard workers,

473
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,400
if they're lazy. 
We can constantly have this 

474
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,600
regulating mechanism in society 
that's used by disassociating 

475
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,080
with people who don't meet our 
standards. 

476
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,640
What the status position is, is 
that politicians should be able 

477
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,800
to coerce standards universally 
for basically everyone within a 

478
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,240
certain geographical area. 
So it's not that there's either 

479
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,440
standards or no standards, it's 
who gets to decide. 

480
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,280
This is Thomas Soule's thesis in
his book Knowledge and Decisions

481
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,360
that when you can both want, you
know, good standards in food, 

482
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,040
housing, medicine, people you 
spend your time with, churches, 

483
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,440
you know the aesthetic 
pleasantness of, you know, 

484
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,560
buildings and architecture. 
It's not that there shouldn't be

485
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,440
standards or whatever someone 
chooses to do is totally fine. 

486
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,760
The question is who's going to 
have the standards? 

487
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,880
Either people are going to have 
their own standards or 

488
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,520
politicians are going to 
unilaterally decide. 

489
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,640
It's not that I have so much 
faith in people that they're 

490
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,440
always going to do the right 
thing and do the most efficient 

491
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,720
thing or do the most beautiful 
harmonious thing. 

492
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,400
It's that I don't trust a subset
of those people who are 

493
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,560
attracted to political power, 
having the right to coerce 

494
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,280
millions of total strangers in 
such a way where if they're 

495
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,840
wrong, they face very little to 
no backlash if they are wrong. 

496
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,760
So I disagree that it's about 
not having standards and saying,

497
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,920
you know, so long as it doesn't 
affect me, I'm OK with it. 

498
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,040
I think that's absolutely 
terrible. 

499
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,600
Every time you choose to go to a
restaurant or not spend time 

500
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,480
with someone who was formerly a 
friend of yours, that is you 

501
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,840
engaging in having standards and
setting rules for the society 

502
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,800
you live in. 
As far as the importance of 

503
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,920
consent, all I'm really saying 
here is that all else equal, 

504
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:39,400
consent is far preferable in the
absence of extreme examples to 

505
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,800
coercion. 
It's simply what differentiates 

506
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,680
rape from lovemaking, civilized 
from uncivilized behavior, theft

507
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,840
from trade, kidnapping from 
spending time with other people,

508
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,120
enslavement from work. 
So that's why I think consent is

509
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,520
so important. 
So if we take that concept of 

510
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,480
it's not what should happen, but
who should decide if we look at 

511
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,560
duties and obligations. 
Take military conscription, for 

512
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,760
example. 
It's not that I don't think 

513
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,520
people should fight for what 
they believe in and defend their

514
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,040
homeland against aggressors. 
I absolutely believe that. 

515
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,840
The question is, should 
politicians be able to coerce 

516
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,040
people against their will in 
fighting for such a thing? 

517
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,600
And who should fight in what 
amount, to what extent for, you 

518
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,640
know, for what end. 
If you know someone was going to

519
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,680
take all of Florida, well, you'd
have to weigh the costs and 

520
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,520
benefits of the Biden regime 
ruling Florida. 

521
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,160
Or I guess it's, you know, 
realistic in the minds of some 

522
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,040
people that Vladimir Putin could
take over Florida or some parts 

523
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,440
of America or, you know, use 
some methods of influence. 

524
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,840
So not everything terrible is 
worth, you know, totally dying 

525
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,800
for. 
So we could either have a method

526
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,600
of conscripting people against 
their will, or you could let 

527
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,320
people decide for themselves 
what is worth fighting for, to 

528
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,600
what extent. 
And since they actually have to 

529
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,960
bear the cost, they're the 
person in the body experiencing 

530
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,240
this world. 
They should be the ultimate 

531
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,200
decision maker. 
So I respectfully disagree that 

532
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,760
it's about, you know, not having
standards and saying, well, 

533
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,440
whatever someone chooses to do, 
that's OK. 

534
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,800
People constantly have very high
standards in the free market. 

535
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,360
That's why businesses go out of 
business because people choose 

536
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,000
something else. 
That's why some big budget 

537
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,160
movies are total flops, because 
people don't want to associate 

538
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,040
with with those sorts of things.
That's why Hollywood has been 

539
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,680
like, you know, I didn't even 
know the Oscars took place the 

540
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,560
other day, and I wasn't avoiding
it. 

541
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,080
And the Oscars when I was a kid 
was like this huge thing. 

542
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,160
This is people voluntarily 
shifting their standards away 

543
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,080
from terrible degeneracy. 
John Cena had some stunt on 

544
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,080
stage, and I'm actually glad 
that I missed the whole thing. 

545
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,880
So, So people can constantly 
have standard standards are 

546
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,760
vitally important. 
That's why they shouldn't be in 

547
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,400
the hands of politicians. 
Yeah, I know. 

548
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,520
So I I got by the way, I wasn't 
saying that you can't have 

549
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,040
standards when they're kind of 
morality. 

550
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,440
I was playing devil's advocate, 
and I'll keep doing that because

551
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,280
I think this is very important. 
Not enough libertarians think 

552
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,080
about morality. 
They just don't. 

553
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,560
They think about it in terms of 
being coerced or not being 

554
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:13,560
coerced. 
That's it. 

555
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,080
That's a limit. 
OK, So beyond the political 

556
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,360
context, let's put the political
context to the side because this

557
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,840
is how I personally face my 
morality. 

558
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:28,160
OK, I phrase it with two 
categories, what is permissible 

559
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,280
and what is preferable. 
So there's an objective set of 

560
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,120
first principles in the first 
category that if I don't follow 

561
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,160
them, not only will society fall
apart, but individuals would be 

562
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,480
in eminency with each other. 
Death will happen, disorder will

563
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,640
happen, chaos will happen, and 
ultimately society as a whole 

564
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,440
will will be undermined. 
And ethics is simply the science

565
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,920
of according right and wrong 
action as it relates to other 

566
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,800
people, IE ethics is a social 
practice. 

567
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,080
Therefore, if society is gone, 
ethics can't really matter more 

568
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,880
so it's important to preserve 
society. 

569
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,760
So among these permissible 
principles is justice, which is 

570
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,520
simply refraining from violating
someone's rights, honoring your 

571
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,800
oaths and your contracts as 
they're written out. 

572
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:19,800
Things of that sort, veracity 
being truthful, right? 

573
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:27,480
Those are the primary 2/2 of the
sort of more than like. 

574
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,160
These create the permissible 
realm. 

575
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,280
But when it comes into the realm
of preferability, you have 

576
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,760
charity. 
You've got goodwill. 

577
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,520
I think that you need. 
I think that you. 

578
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,120
I think a society can. 
Societies can exist without 

579
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,520
people being nice to each other.
It's better if they are, but 

580
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,040
they can still exist. 
If you respect people's rights, 

581
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,360
you can solve society. 
If people are mean, so good, so,

582
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,680
so goodwill, charity, these kind
of things. 

583
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,440
We're not, by moral necessity, 
compelled to do them, but 

584
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,160
society is enhanced if we do. 
I'm more worried about the 2nd 

585
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,880
realm because let's go beyond 
the political realm, right? 

586
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,600
I think that's that's too much 
of the focus because the 

587
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,760
arguments of the people that do 
want to use the political realm 

588
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,920
to impose their their moral 
order upon all of us. 

589
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,880
The post liberals the national 
these people is that when you 

590
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:25,360
divorce government from the from
a sort of community ethos you 

591
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,000
get a society that's in chaos 
and they will often times use 

592
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,360
the society as a reference point
to make their points to look at 

593
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,760
transgenderism for example and 
or the annihilation of womanhood

594
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,680
as evidence of a laissez faire 
society run amok. 

595
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,640
Because how do you actually 
prevent prevent these things? 

596
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,800
Is just people raising their 
voices and trying to stop them 

597
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:50,960
or is something that's going to 
be more assertive and more 

598
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,400
muscular. 
Whether it be other, this is 

599
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,760
other examples such can't turn 
into a meme, whether it be 

600
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,160
before Elon took over Twitter, 
big tech censoring people, the 

601
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,880
New York Post getting their 
their story censored about 

602
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,560
Hunter Biden's laptop. 
There are a lot of people making

603
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,040
a joke out of the it's a private
company phrase. 

604
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,120
Because they're saying if there 
are companies that control the 

605
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,199
most amount of resources, so 
much so that competition is not 

606
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,400
effective in the public 
discourse, what uses it for it? 

607
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,840
Being a private, private 
company. 

608
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,080
And then there were others that 
were saying that? 

609
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,199
Is it really a private company 
if the government funds them and

610
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,040
gives them special backdoor 
access? 

611
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,440
You. 
I think that if we're going to 

612
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,800
comprehensively answer our foes,
because by the way, I agree with

613
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,320
you entirely, if we're going to 
answer our foes, we have to be 

614
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,560
comprehensive in how we view 
morality in society. 

615
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,440
It can't just be corrosion. 
Bad consent. 

616
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,639
Good. 
Correct. 

617
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:52,600
I believe it's necessary but not
sufficient to value consent, or 

618
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,800
at least have it as the center 
focus of your ethical worldview.

619
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,960
So the claim that transgenderism
and degeneracy are the result of

620
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,640
a laissez faire society, we 
could say maybe the transgender 

621
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,200
issue. 
We could maybe measure it from 

622
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:16,600
1980 to you know 2023 where it's
gone from barely anyone talking 

623
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,680
about it to it being in a 
headline multiple times a day on

624
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,160
major news outlets. 
So according to that theory, 

625
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,520
since it's the result of too 
much laissez faire, we would 

626
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,360
have seen a drastic decrease in 
that 40 year span of government 

627
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,440
regulation and no hands on the 
economy. 

628
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,320
We would have seen major 
abolitions of large sectors of 

629
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,920
the government. 
The Department of Education had 

630
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,840
to have been abolished since, 
you know, it's a laissez faire 

631
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,760
society and government spending 
of course would have drastically

632
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,440
decreased in that time according
to that theory. 

633
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,120
The problem is the exact 
opposite has happened and in 

634
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,680
response to that they've said 
well there's too much freedom. 

635
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,000
Of course, this is constantly 
the result of mostly college 

636
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,920
academics who get state funding.
Constantly through programs with

637
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,440
Sallie Mae, where the 
government's constantly getting 

638
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,240
people loans. 
They're doing such a bad job in 

639
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:14,760
K through 12 education that kids
almost have to go to College in 

640
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,880
some cases in order to get a job
in the future. 

641
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,640
And once they funnel people into
these colleges, they teach them 

642
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,320
all of these ridiculous ideas of
egalitarianism, these ideas of, 

643
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,840
you know, constant white 
supremacies everywhere and 

644
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,800
things like transgenderism. 
So if the state really was the 

645
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,040
solution to something like this,
we would see the state either 

646
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:43,600
growing and this degeneracy 
constantly shrinking, or we'd 

647
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,960
see the state shrinking and the,
you know, transgenderism, 

648
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,320
advocacy growing in correlation.
The problem is, well, we get the

649
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,080
exact opposite. 
More government involvement has 

650
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,440
led to less accountability in 
these areas where, I mean, I 

651
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,600
can't imagine actually 
voluntarily funding anyone who 

652
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,680
doesn't think there's a valuable
difference for a society to have

653
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,120
between men and women. 
I don't know. 

654
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Men have what, 17 times the 
amount of testosterone women do.

655
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,360
So of course we're going to have
massive inequality in the 

656
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:17,960
results of these two 
demographics. 

657
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,840
The idea that people could be, 
you know, transracial or 

658
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,400
transgender, I think is absolute
lunacy and the state has not 

659
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,640
done much to prevent it. 
In fact, people like Joe Biden 

660
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,360
are constantly pushing it 
forward. 

661
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,240
Whereas according to this 
theory, you'd think that the 

662
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:36,200
government would be saying, hey,
private sector, stop being so 

663
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,560
degenerate, here's you know the 
accurate way to live. 

664
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:40,960
We get trillions of dollars a 
year in taxes. 

665
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,760
We're going to spend it towards,
you know, fighting degeneracy 

666
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,000
and all this stuff. 
They're constantly amplifying 

667
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,880
it. 
Even Donald Trump had four 

668
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,800
years, two of which he had a 
Republican Congress and did not 

669
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,800
do much of. 
Of course, he should have 

670
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,000
abolished the Department of 
Education, taking all state 

671
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,880
funding of colleges down to 0 
anyone who's promoting such a 

672
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,440
ridiculous nonsense. 
So that is my response to the 

673
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,200
claim That laissez faire leads 
to lowering of standards leads 

674
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,480
to a total degeneracy. 
As far as whether or not private

675
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,400
companies have the right to do 
what to do what they'd like, 

676
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,200
well, there's two ways to go 
about this. 

677
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,000
One way is to have a very 
consolidated structure where the

678
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,360
state gets the final call and 
then they get to delegate 

679
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,840
licenses of who gets to say what
things and what news is accurate

680
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,120
and what news is inaccurate. 
Or you can say that there is no 

681
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,040
solution, only trade-offs. 
And in this world view, you say 

682
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,280
that anyone who amasses large 
amounts of power is going to be 

683
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,640
corrupted with it, especially if
there is coercive power. 

684
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:52,240
So yes, we did see Twitter 
blocking the story from the 

685
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:56,120
state who was the. 
So the state actually is the 

686
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,280
one, you know, blaming the 
Vladimir Putin. 

687
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,120
You had 50 intelligence 
officials come out and say this 

688
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,160
Hunter Biden laptop, according 
to you know Politico, is Russian

689
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,440
disinformation. 
They ran with the story for the 

690
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,960
second time after faking it in 
2016. 

691
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,440
Russiagate 2 point O was again 
and then there was Russiagate 3 

692
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,960
point O where Joe Biden on the 
debate stage said Vladimir Putin

693
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,360
has put bounties on the heads of
American soldiers in 

694
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,160
Afghanistan. 
So the government was behind all

695
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:25,800
of these lies. 
And how did they get out? 

696
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,720
Well, not necessarily because 
there was a government committee

697
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:30,920
who then brought us the truth, 
but it was other competing 

698
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,240
private organizations like the 
Libertarian Institute, 

699
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,200
antiwar.com, Glenn Greenwald, 
Jimmy Dore. 

700
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,040
Those were the people who 
actually got the truth out about

701
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,240
Russia Gate. 
So yes, there are tons of 

702
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,000
amounts of fallibility in the 
voluntary sector, and the 

703
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,600
solution to that is more 
competition and less monopolies.

704
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,720
That is the ultimate what I call
the unavoidable contradiction of

705
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,560
progressivism is the claim that 
monopolies are bad. 

706
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,000
Also, the state should 
monopolize taxation. 

707
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,680
The state should monopolize the 
money supply. 

708
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,080
The state should monopolize 
guns. 

709
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,240
The state should monopolize the 
judicial system. 

710
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,680
All of the things that they're 
worried about being the result 

711
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,720
of a voluntary monopoly. 
That could hypothetically 

712
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:17,440
happen, even though alternatives
are constantly coming up. 

713
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,160
They actually advocate that as 
the solution to too much 

714
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,080
competition. 
So all of the problems you have 

715
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,960
with big companies in the 
voluntary sector apply many 

716
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:32,760
times over to the state sector. 
No, in the Valley. 

717
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,880
That's a very good response. 
I don't want to linger too much 

718
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,680
from this point. 
I could push, push, push, but I 

719
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,200
have sufficient for where we are
right now. 

720
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,840
I just think that it's very 
important for those of us who 

721
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,240
work from first principles, and 
I believe from what it sounds 

722
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:51,560
like, you have a natural law 
viewpoint of ethics as well, who

723
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,640
work from that set of first 
principles as well to speak 

724
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,040
about morality in the most 
expansive way possible. 

725
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:04,200
Because coercion, a more 
preventive on coercion, is 

726
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,520
simply one domain of the broader
moral universe. 

727
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,480
There's several other domains 
that I I think aren't really 

728
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,280
touched by libertarians at great
peril, and I I think people will

729
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,400
often times say that 
libertarianism is not 

730
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,000
libertinism. 
Well, you're correct, in 

731
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,160
definition is not. 
But in practice, many 

732
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,840
libertarians do become libertine
because they don't think about 

733
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,360
morality beyond the issue of 
coercion and state power. 

734
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:34,080
Well, we could also look at all 
the we could also look at all 

735
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,200
the degeneracy among the elite 
class. 

736
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,960
There was the Franklin cover up 
with the Republicans in the 

737
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,600
1980s where there was a 
pedophile ring. 

738
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:45,560
There was the Jeffrey Epstein 
pedophile ring that the 80s 

739
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,320
Democrats were recently 
operating and then covering up. 

740
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,440
So it's not like degeneracy is 
just some libertarian thing. 

741
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:52,080
No. 
No. 

742
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:54,360
It's not. 
It's not. 

743
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,440
It's a human thing, by the way, 
and I and I don't like it when 

744
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,440
people try to tie the degeneracy
to a political philosophy. 

745
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,680
It's a human thing, right? 
And by the way, I'm not saying 

746
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,000
this ananimous. 
I was, I was a Students for 

747
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,840
Liberty for all four years of my
college. 

748
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,600
I was steeped and Nozick and 
Rothbard and all that stuff. 

749
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,720
So I'm not saying this out of 
animus. 

750
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:16,920
I'm just saying this because in 
my own journey towards 

751
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,360
constitutional conservatism, 
that's where I am now. 

752
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,880
And being a much more 
conservative person in that 

753
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,640
respect, I found some things 
culturally libertarianism that I

754
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,480
that didn't comport with me, but
some of the values have sucked 

755
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:31,880
with me. 
Obviously, if you look at my 

756
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,720
political philosophy, you 
wouldn't be able to tell that I 

757
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,640
that I was any different. 
Mostly so. 

758
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,800
But I simply like to still man 
because it's important for for 

759
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:47,800
those of us who do value human 
freedom, who do value the human 

760
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,040
being in its fullest capacity, 
to be able to stand strong on 

761
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,800
that beyond simply looking at a 
certain domain. 

762
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,120
So that's all I'm just trying to
do some friendly pushing and 

763
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,560
nudging. 
But but yeah, so you mentioned 

764
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,440
something that's actually quite 
interesting in your book and 

765
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,280
this is closer towards the end, 
but I found it, I I, I found it 

766
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,800
to be very insightful. 
It's in the title. 

767
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,000
It's in the thing titled The 
difference between Democratic 

768
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,280
Socialism and National Socialism
is like no difference between 

769
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,400
it. 
And you say that that they are 

770
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,400
only different in rhetoric but 
not in terms of means to achieve

771
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,960
their ends. 
So can you extend on that? 

772
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,560
So what I am doing here is I'm 
trying to extract a definition 

773
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,440
as to what these terms actually 
mean. 

774
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,520
I'm referring to communism as 
the abolition of private 

775
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,720
property, as Karl Marx and 
Frederick Engels did. 

776
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,920
I'm referring to socialism as 
the institutionalized aggression

777
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,600
against private property and 
capitalism as a social system of

778
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,920
private property exchanges 
between consenting adults, 

779
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,240
mainly including the right to 
contract and whatnot. 

780
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,080
That is what I believe 
differentiates capitalists from 

781
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,040
socialists, from communists. 
So when looking at democratic 

782
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,320
socialists and their blatant 
opposition to National 

783
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,720
Socialism, they're in a very 
glassy house throwing a lot of 

784
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:15,160
these stones at, you know, the 
terrible Nazis everywhere. 

785
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,400
Well, it's important to ask, 
what is it about National 

786
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,280
Socialism that they oppose so 
much? 

787
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,640
And usually it'll be something 
like too much hierarchy or 

788
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,200
judging people by race. 
As if the progressive is not 

789
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,440
constantly. 
As if the average democratic 

790
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,560
socialist today is not 
constantly generalizing people 

791
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,880
by their race. 
They both believe that the state

792
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,800
should monopolize key features 
within society, including the 

793
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,960
money supply, the judicial 
system, compulsory education, 

794
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:46,320
etcetera. 
So when you look at it through 

795
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,120
this lens that the National 
Socialist wants to constantly 

796
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,840
coerce millions of strangers 
under the guise of helping the 

797
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,760
nation, and the Democratic 
Socialist constantly wants to 

798
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,560
coerce millions of strangers 
under the guise of helping the 

799
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,200
working masses, I think they are
both absolutely fallacious. 

800
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:06,480
I and I do think that the 
average National Socialist says 

801
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:08,680
I want what's best for my 
country. 

802
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,480
This is the collective I'm a 
part of, and I want the state to

803
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,840
represent those values. 
I think they're both totally 

804
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,240
sincere, but they both advocate 
one group having a monopoly on 

805
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,880
violence to a very large extent.
I'm not talking about the 

806
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,280
average person who just 
believes, you know, the state is

807
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,320
some Hobbes unnecessary evil or 
or anything like that. 

808
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,440
So because the democratic 
socialist has basically no 

809
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,680
principle to differentiate what 
the state can and cannot do, 

810
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,080
they're no different in 
principle than the National 

811
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,480
Socialist. 
One of the main things that I 

812
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,160
mentioned in the book is the 
Iron Law of Oligarchy. 

813
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:51,640
This is the idea that any system
that starts out as very, very 

814
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,400
democratic in its origins will 
eventually develop into an 

815
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,600
oligarchy. 
So much though, so much so that 

816
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:03,200
it's an iron law within all 
organizations between all humans

817
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,560
in the human race. 
So you can ask, well now 

818
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,160
communism is more about 
equality, socialism is in the 

819
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,280
middle, and capitalism is about 
inequality. 

820
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:16,040
But it turns out if you look at 
Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Roosevelt, 

821
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,360
Truman, Genghis Khan, you look 
at Aristotle, who I know wasn't 

822
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:22,880
a, you know, political leader or
anything. 

823
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:28,400
But all of the major people 
throughout history in all these 

824
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,760
different countries at all these
different times had a very, very

825
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,800
disproportionate amount of power
relative to the average person 

826
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,280
in the society they lived. 
So when the democratic socialist

827
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,360
says, well, we're much more 
about equality and getting 

828
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,960
people involved, that is such a 
fool's errand that it's not even

829
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,080
to be taken seriously. 
The classic example is that of a

830
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:53,520
labor union where, say, you have
the bourgeoisie who make a lot 

831
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,040
of money, and then you have the 
workers who want to unionize to 

832
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,160
fight the bourgeoisie and sort 
of counterbalance the amount of 

833
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,760
power. 
Well, it turns out, and this is 

834
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,040
a classic example given by 
Mckells, who, you know, started 

835
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,040
the theory popularized by James 
Burnham. 

836
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,280
The response is well, not 
everyone wants to go to work and

837
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,640
then attend a Union meeting. 
Not everyone is going to have 

838
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,560
good ideas about what the Union 
should do. 

839
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,240
Not everyone's going to be 
courageous enough to speak up. 

840
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:24,080
Not everyone who speaks up is 
going to be equally persuasive. 

841
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,040
Not everyone who speaks up and 
is equally persuasive is as good

842
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,480
looking as other people who 
might get more attention and 

843
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,080
social status because of that. 
So what you end up is you end up

844
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,320
having Jimmy Hoffa and a few 
friends running the union for 

845
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,560
10s of thousands of people who 
have very little if any 

846
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,760
influence. 
So the entire democratic 

847
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,920
socialism justification of, 
well, we're about empowering the

848
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,560
little guy just as much as 
anyone else. 

849
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,520
That is not possible to do in 
any society. 

850
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,640
You know, once you get more than
three or four people, even if 

851
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,720
you get four people who are 
related, I mean, look at the 

852
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,440
disparity between, you know, the
Baldwin brothers. 

853
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,160
I use them as an example, one 
much more famous than the other.

854
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,800
These people are directly 
related in many times. 

855
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,120
I grew up in the same household.
Compare Barack Obama to his 

856
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,920
brother George Obama. 
Drastic inequality in the amount

857
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,320
of power that they have. 
I also use Oprah Winfrey and her

858
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,400
siblings. 
She has much more institutional 

859
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,280
power and wealth than people who
she's directly related to. 

860
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,800
So the entire claim that, well, 
the democratic socialists are 

861
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,520
different because they're about 
empowering, you know, the little

862
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,080
people, it is the same exact 
thing where you end up having a 

863
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,440
few people coercively dominating
everyone else. 

864
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,040
So because this Iron Law exists,
the question is which sort of 

865
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,680
social arrangement should we 
recognize as legitimate? 

866
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,960
One that gives us an elite class
as the result of voluntary 

867
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,160
exchanges and voluntary 
contracts where we can 

868
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,640
disassociate with the elites if 
they get degenerate or corrupt 

869
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,280
or anything else, or one in 
which they have a monopoly on 

870
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,280
violence and there is no 
recognized right to disassociate

871
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,360
from a bad elite. 
So elite is a constant, is a 

872
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,560
constant throughout all 
societies, and we have every 

873
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,000
reason to believe it'll always 
be here. 

874
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:15,440
I just think libertarianism's a 
better approach than democratic 

875
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,200
socialism to the inevitability 
of elites that will exist. 

876
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,040
The original term I think was 
natural aristocracy, but that 

877
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,560
this is what that gets into and 
that's why I don't think there's

878
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,800
a real difference between 
Democratic Socialism and 

879
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,640
National Socialism. 
No, yeah, I agree. 

880
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,360
I mean, wherever you have human 
beings of varied abilities and 

881
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,160
potentials, you will get varied 
outcomes. 

882
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,600
It's an absolutely, it's an 
axiom. 

883
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,720
Although I do I I I think and 
just to still amend the 

884
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:47,800
democratic socialist 
perspective, even in a society 

885
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,000
where which is which in this 
world we're constructing is 

886
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,280
based entirely on voluntary 
interaction and everyone's free.

887
00:49:56,720 --> 00:49:59,080
Just like we shouldn't assume 
there will be an equal amount of

888
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,840
skills and life outcomes amongst
people, we also shouldn't assume

889
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,400
there's going to be an equal 
amount of knowledge amongst 

890
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,120
people either. 
And how people, how people use 

891
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:12,800
their consent and what 
principles and values guide that

892
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,200
is almost as important that they
have the ability to voluntarily 

893
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,360
associate. 
How do you fix that problem? 

894
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,360
Because Muslims are ballasts. 
Yes. 

895
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,560
So tell me if I'm evading this 
'cause I want to get to the root

896
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,840
of it, this, this knowledge 
asymmetry I mentioned in a 

897
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,400
section titled Government 
Failure. 

898
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,040
This knowledge asymmetry is 
constantly going to exist in any

899
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,040
society. 
So I just think it's preferable 

900
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,840
to have a society where you can 
look at Yelp reviews and choose 

901
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:49,280
to disassociate with bad actors.
You can watch YouTube reviews. 

902
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,000
Every single product I've ever 
thought about. 

903
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,200
I go, I just heard about this. 
I wonder if there's anything on 

904
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:59,280
YouTube you have Youtubers 
reviewing this stuff so that 

905
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:04,040
that is one way to, you know, 
fight the inevitable knowledge 

906
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,080
asymmetry that will always exist
in any society. 

907
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:10,280
So the question is having does 
having a state, you know, 

908
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,800
absolve this from happening? 
I actually argue that it 

909
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,440
constantly amplifies it. 
What percentage of Americans 

910
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,840
are, you know, equally informed 
on what goes on in the education

911
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,080
system? 
How many people have read how 

912
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,320
many laws? 
When it comes to reading one 

913
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,880
law, the average person has not 
taken the time to read it and I 

914
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,640
don't blame them 'cause even if 
you read the 1st Amendment, you 

915
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,920
have 9 Ivy League trained 
Supreme Court justices who don't

916
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,840
agree on the interpretation of 
that amendment. 

917
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,120
Let alone, you know, the 
Troubled Asset Relief package of

918
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,400
2008, which is 1000 pages, and 
as all the bailouts and 

919
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,160
everything, what percentage of 
people understand agricultural 

920
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,920
subsidies? 
There's constant knowledge 

921
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,840
asymmetry among the citizenry. 
Compare it to government 

922
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,880
officials who have access to 
classified knowledge, huge 

923
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,400
knowledge asymmetry. 
A politician who's been in 

924
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,160
Washington for what Joe Biden's 
been in there like 40 something 

925
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,520
years. 
You think he has the the you 

926
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,560
think his knowledge is equal to 
the average Biden voter? 

927
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,800
Not even close. 
And that same applies for 

928
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:17,960
supporters of Ocasio, Cortez, 
and anyone else who says 

929
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,800
knowledge asymmetry is a 
justification for the state 

930
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,840
coercing others. 
I think it amplifies the worst 

931
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,800
aspects that inevitably exist in
every society. 

932
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,800
Yeah. 
No, I I I think that's right. 

933
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,280
That's right. 
And again, I don't want, I don't

934
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,440
want to push too hard, but I, I,
I think that it's often times 

935
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,240
when no, no, it's all right. 
Otherwise, when when 

936
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:41,800
libertarians talk about the 
importance of voluntary 

937
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:46,200
cooperation, we're all thinking 
in the moral terms of coercion 

938
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,120
being bad, the individual having
some kind of moral value, human 

939
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,760
interaction being good. 
I just wonder because voluntary 

940
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,320
association, the beauty of it is
that it reflects human diversity

941
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,680
and that leads people to 
different situations, right? 

942
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,800
We can voluntarily associate. 
You can come on Christian 

943
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,040
Watson's podcast at 10:00 at 
night EST and get grilled on 

944
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,560
philosophy. 
Or you can go join a cult in the

945
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,800
northern, in northern northern 
Africa, or go join Jonestown and

946
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,800
get taught by a prophet who's 
supposed to give you the keys to

947
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,880
heaven. 
It's a political system, ideally

948
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,520
should be agnostic on which 
choice that you choose. 

949
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,560
We agree on that. 
But to sustain a culture of 

950
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,880
freedom beyond the political 
system, people in that culture, 

951
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:37,320
I'm not so sure, should be 
agnostic on that. 

952
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,000
Obviously I can't force you not 
to join. 

953
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,000
Join Jemstown. 
If you want to go join a cult 

954
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,280
and you're convinced at that 
point, OK, you have eternalizing

955
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,520
world of you that has dominated 
your mind. 

956
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,360
It will be dangerous for me to 
try to stop you, to do anything.

957
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,240
And it will also be immoral, of 
course. 

958
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:58,760
But there should be extreme 
social stigma from doing that 

959
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,800
kind of stuff. 
And that stigma should be 

960
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:06,640
coordinated on a mass level. 
But I find that a lot of people 

961
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,240
who are into disassociation and 
going into their own silos, in 

962
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:13,360
some cases when they when they 
find who they don't like, they 

963
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,600
are, they don't like doing that 
kind of thing. 

964
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,240
Well, if they want to believe 
that, let them go, OK, we can 

965
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:23,200
let them go. 
But we should make it 

966
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,200
uncomfortable in some way, shape
and form for dangerous 

967
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,960
associations to take place in 
the society. 

968
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,640
Yeah, definitely. 
I try and hint at this in the 

969
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,280
book. 
Maybe it's a larger rant for a 

970
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,840
different treatise. 
But if you look at what the 

971
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,480
Jehovah's Witness does, I think 
we can learn a lot from the 

972
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,560
Mormons and the Jehovah's 
Witness who passionately make 

973
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,400
the case for what they believe 
in. 

974
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:57,480
They use, you know, bashing 
people that not physically, but 

975
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,520
they use high amounts of 
disincentives in order to 

976
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:06,160
encourage certain behaviors and 
disassociate or discourage bad 

977
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:07,720
behaviors, provide 
disincentives. 

978
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,880
I think we can do the same exact
thing. 

979
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,800
I don't agree with the Jehovah's
Witness on their general world 

980
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,800
view, but simply that tactic of 
here are our standards. 

981
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,160
And even if I think you're going
to burn in hell for all of 

982
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,200
eternity, I'm still going to 
give you the final say. 

983
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:25,960
But I'm not going to stop 
bringing this up. 

984
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,520
I'm going to keep inviting you 
to church. 

985
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,680
I'm going to make my church 
gorgeous and give you every 

986
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,840
incentive to come and visit. 
I'm going to be the nicest 

987
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,120
person, you know, along with all
my other friends. 

988
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,800
So you're going to say, well, 
those Jehovah's Witnesses, that 

989
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,280
I just enjoy being around them, 
so you're going to want to spend

990
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,400
time with us. 
So these methods of using heavy 

991
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,320
amounts of persuasion to 
encourage civilized behavior and

992
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,080
disincentivize bad behavior, I 
think it's totally consistent 

993
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,720
with libertarianism. 
And you're absolutely right. 

994
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:57,440
It's something that we have 
overlooked for far too long. 

995
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:02,600
It's difficult to, you know, get
a fish to appreciate the water 

996
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,200
that it's always lived in. 
And when you've always lived in 

997
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,240
a sane culture, it doesn't occur
to you of, yeah, people can do 

998
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:12,360
whatever they want, wait, you're
smoking. 

999
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:13,720
How much pot. 
Wait. 

1000
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,600
You're doing. 
What? 

1001
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,800
To your genitals at the doctor? 
Getting them removed. 

1002
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,680
OK, that I did not consider. 
Maybe I should roll back this, 

1003
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,120
Do whatever you want kind of 
thing. 

1004
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:29,520
So yeah, it's definitely the the
learning curve that we as a 

1005
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,440
movement I think need to 
embrace. 

1006
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:36,440
And I think the best way to 
create a culture like that is I 

1007
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:41,880
think it's referred to as blind 
copying, where the population at

1008
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,600
large will see in certain 
individuals within the society 

1009
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:49,640
who they are in awe of. 
And much like if I had been born

1010
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,600
in England, I would have 
developed a British accent. 

1011
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:58,320
They start incorporating aspects
of, you know, this persons, you 

1012
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,760
know, good traits into their 
everyday lives. 

1013
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,120
So it's not that all Asians 
really sat down and thought 

1014
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,560
about the costs and benefits of,
you know, working hard and, you 

1015
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,160
know, showing up on time and, 
you know, postponing consumption

1016
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,160
and all this stuff. 
They basically just started 

1017
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,480
doing it because there are other
people who are leaders within 

1018
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,920
their community who did it, and 
they just copied them. 

1019
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:23,840
So I think it's on us to have 
people like Ron Paul and Dave 

1020
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,640
Smith and Tom Woods and Scott 
Horton. 

1021
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,840
These are the libertarian 
thinkers. 

1022
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,320
Even someone like Robert Nozick,
I think is very respectable to a

1023
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,280
large degree. 
I think if we put those people 

1024
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:39,200
up as our heroes and they simply
lead by example, I think that's 

1025
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,920
the best way to build a culture 
which which we can be proud of. 

1026
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,080
Because I got to say, it's 
definitely something I envy. 

1027
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,880
Seeing Tucker Carlson walk 
around Moscow, that subway 

1028
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,160
state, forget the fact that he's
totally wrong about the price 

1029
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,120
of, you know, supermarket goods,
the fact that there was no 

1030
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,520
graffiti on that subway. 
Oh my gosh. 

1031
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,520
And just comparing it to the 
last time I was at Penn Station,

1032
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,800
it's amazing to see what a 
really solid culture that has 

1033
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,280
this, you know, sort of cultural
continuity, cultural connection,

1034
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,120
this nationalist idea. 
That's something that I think is

1035
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,520
totally beautiful. 
And I it definitely took me too 

1036
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,720
long to appreciate the the value
of that. 

1037
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,440
So yeah, embracing standards and
putting up people who we think 

1038
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,880
are really good leaders, I think
it's got to be the next move for

1039
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,000
us generally. 
Interesting. 

1040
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,720
That's an interesting thought. 
Hopefully libertarians, 

1041
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,800
hopefully they listen to you on 
that issue. 

1042
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,120
So I want to go to the question 
portion of the interview now. 

1043
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:39,960
Not my questions, but my 
audience questions. 

1044
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,320
So I'm giving an open invitation
to anyone. 

1045
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,200
If any of you have any questions
for our guests, please let me 

1046
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:46,880
know. 
Put them in the chat, I'll put 

1047
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,600
them up on the screen and we'll 
we'll just go from there because

1048
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,600
this has been a very interesting
conversation and I appreciate 

1049
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,240
you having it with me. 
You know, one thing that I do 

1050
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:02,080
want to touch on though, and 
this is more of a general issue 

1051
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,920
in politics, not necessarily 
relating to libertarianism, but 

1052
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,560
it's the issue of status and the
Society of status. 

1053
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:11,560
So if we think about how Old 
World Europe was organized, 

1054
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,080
human value was conflated with 
your position, with social 

1055
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,320
hierarchy and with titles and 
honorifics that you had. 

1056
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,920
The New World kind of disputed 
that because the New World put 

1057
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,560
emphasis on how much is are your
hands going to touch the dirt 

1058
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,720
and mold it to make something. 
How much, how much self-reliance

1059
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:28,760
and personal responsibility 
you're going to have, how much 

1060
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,280
perseverance in the face of 
this, these vast open Wilds 

1061
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,720
Lewis and Clark style are you 
going to have. 

1062
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,960
And that informed the sort of 
moral, individualistic, natural 

1063
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,920
law based thinking of that 
entire finding generation 

1064
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,880
culture. 
But the Society of status still 

1065
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,720
persists in our modern day 
culture in many different forms 

1066
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,680
in terms of, and I was talking 
about this before you got on, in

1067
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,960
terms of celebrities, in terms 
of influencers in politics and 

1068
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,440
all kind of things, where the 
value of one's voice and 

1069
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,240
contribution to society is 
chalked up to how many followers

1070
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,280
they have. 
It's chalked up to how much 

1071
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,160
praise they have. 
What did Emerson say? 

1072
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,600
A man's name is found in the 
mass approbation of his friends,

1073
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,400
that kind of status idea. 
I find that to be dangerous 

1074
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,120
because it takes the emphasis 
off of the issues and it makes 

1075
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,240
people who are supposed to be 
vessels. 

1076
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,680
Instead, the entire issue 
themselves and causes this 

1077
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:26,360
conflation between personality 
and ideas, which causes the 

1078
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,280
ideas to be lost, the 
personalities to be elevated. 

1079
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,280
And now we're living in a world 
of elevated personalities with 

1080
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,640
no substance and superficiality.
That's what celebrity culture 

1081
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:36,600
is. 
I'm sorry I'm on a little bit of

1082
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:42,840
a role, but still. 
So how in general, does anyone, 

1083
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,800
any keen political observer deal
with this? 

1084
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,320
Because you mentioned, for 
example, Dave Smith, Scott 

1085
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,240
Horton, all these people find 
people. 

1086
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,320
But when people think of 
libertarianism in the 

1087
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,000
contemporary context, they may 
think of those people. 

1088
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,120
And if they have a problem with 
those people, they will 

1089
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,600
automatically assume 
libertarianism has the same 

1090
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:03,960
problem they have with those 
people. 

1091
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,880
That's dangerous. 
I don't like that very much, 

1092
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,280
which is why I tune all that 
out. 

1093
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:09,480
I don't. 
I don't watch anybody. 

1094
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,400
I watch like I was mentioning. 
I watch like Glenn Beck, and 

1095
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,800
that's about it. 
I don't watch anybody because I 

1096
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:20,240
don't want my mind to be played 
with by status and personality 

1097
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,200
when I'm really doing something 
that is putting me in the 

1098
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:30,200
presence of ideas. 
Yeah, status can definitely have

1099
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,320
an impact on on how we see 
things. 

1100
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,960
I remember sitting next to a guy
who was just drunk in a tank top

1101
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,840
and you know, we were just 
having a conversation. 

1102
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:44,600
Next thing I know, he's got 
600,000 Twitter followers on his

1103
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,080
Anonymous account. 
And it was in that moment where 

1104
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,360
I realized, oh, I'm so much more
of a sucker than I thought I 

1105
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,080
was. 
I thought it really wouldn't 

1106
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,520
matter. 
But it's it's difficult to not 

1107
01:01:55,520 --> 01:02:00,200
be persuaded or attracted to 
people who have such a status. 

1108
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:05,440
So as far as what my analysis 
could be on something like that,

1109
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:10,440
we simply just have to compete. 
And when there is a playing 

1110
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:15,000
field of the high status, status
is currently Joe Biden. 

1111
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,800
And the only person Dumber than 
Joe Biden in America is his vice

1112
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,920
president. 
I mean, when these are the 

1113
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,400
people who, you know, we're 
going up against. 

1114
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:28,440
I think libertarians have a much
better time now than in, say, 

1115
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:33,720
the days of Reagan or John F 
Kennedy, as far as, you know, 

1116
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:37,800
competing for people's attention
or allegiances than they ever 

1117
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,760
did previously. 
It has been amazing to see the 

1118
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,360
Thomas soul following that 
exists on random YouTube 

1119
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,640
channels because you have a guy 
speaking clearly, always dressed

1120
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:54,880
nice and meeting you know, a lot
of emotional arguments with a 

1121
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,920
very large amount of empirical 
research. 

1122
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:02,280
Same with people like Wilford 
Riley or Walter E Williams. 

1123
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:06,280
You also have professors like 
Brian Kaplan doing the the same 

1124
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,680
thing. 
So it's definitely a ground that

1125
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:13,040
we need to compete on, and the 
best way to do it is to have 

1126
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,480
alternatives like TikTok, 
YouTube, Twitter, so we can at 

1127
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,360
least hopefully get our foot in 
the door. 

1128
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,200
I don't know where, Elsa, you 
would want me to go with 

1129
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,320
something like that, but I think
you're definitely right. 

1130
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:29,080
I remember Glenn Beck was one of
the first people who analyzed 

1131
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,000
the Affordable Care Act through 
the lens of whether or not 

1132
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,360
people should be forced to 
purchase health insurance 

1133
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,040
against their will. 
And that really stood out to me.

1134
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,040
So. 
So taking that principle, that 

1135
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:42,760
was another one that I was able 
to extract. 

1136
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,480
And if I had heard it from a 
random person rather than a guy 

1137
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,200
in a really nice studio who was 
dressed nice, who had a big 

1138
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,920
following, I don't know if I 
would have taken it as 

1139
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,320
seriously. 
So it's definitely, it's 

1140
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:58,120
definitely something that that 
that we have to consider And 

1141
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:03,760
just just leading by example and
Glenn Beck actually reading the 

1142
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,640
books, Saul Alinsky was one of 
his big ones where he would 

1143
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:10,200
actually go to these primary 
sources of you know, he makes 

1144
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:14,040
the case that this person is 
influenced by this ideology and 

1145
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,880
writing things on the chalkboard
that really got you me at least 

1146
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,480
interested in education. 
Whereas I always thought 

1147
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:24,000
education was, you know, Pluto's
not a planet and Columbus sailed

1148
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:28,560
the ocean blue in 1492. 
So relying on the status of 

1149
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,200
other people, I think it's very 
valuable. 

1150
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,640
Yeah, I think it's it's 
certainly so. 

1151
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,240
I think that if you pick from 
high quality sources, you'll get

1152
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:42,280
high quality results 100%. 
I just find it. 

1153
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,520
I find it oppressive. 
I find I find in the Society of 

1154
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:51,520
Status oppressive simply because
it shuts the conversation out 

1155
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:56,840
from newer voices and because it
relegates legitimacy to 

1156
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,840
personalities instead of ideas. 
I think if there's a workaround 

1157
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:04,320
for that, I'm not sure I I most 
people don't think about this, 

1158
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,200
this particular idea. 
So I don't blame you for, for, 

1159
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,080
for, for, for for that. 
It's a very, I think about very 

1160
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,120
odd things sometimes when it 
comes to these issues. 

1161
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:19,040
But I see it as impacting the 
quality of not only political 

1162
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:22,280
representation you get in 
government status, but also the 

1163
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,360
quality of commentators we have 
as well. 

1164
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,320
I'm not going to call anyone's 
name out, but there are. 

1165
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,800
If you look at both the left and
the right, there is a deluge of 

1166
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:37,000
people who don't really have 
thoughts that go beyond the 

1167
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,320
status quo of their respective 
facts, whether they be 

1168
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,480
libertarians, conservatives, 
progressives. 

1169
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:46,640
If you know what one group 
thinks, most people who are 

1170
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:50,040
personalities for that group 
will just recite what that group

1171
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,040
thinks. 
There are the few within those 

1172
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,440
factions that rise above that 
and go the extra mile, and that 

1173
01:05:55,440 --> 01:06:00,200
should be praised. 
But a lot of these people, their

1174
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:05,160
emphasis is on just being a good
factionalist in a sense. 

1175
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:11,040
And so that's a phenomenon 
that's not new. 

1176
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:12,720
Our founders were dealing with 
this. 

1177
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,240
They themselves were 
factionalist. 

1178
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,720
In a sense. 
They it's it's interesting. 

1179
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,680
They anyone else in American 
history, they were the ones who 

1180
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:24,080
were the most aware of the 
susceptibility of the republican

1181
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,560
system of government to lend 
towards factional party 

1182
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,000
politics. 
And they were the ones many of 

1183
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,920
them warned against that. 
And yet they were ensnared in 

1184
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:34,480
that same system they warned 
against. 

1185
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:38,720
So that should just go to show 
you the fallibility of the human

1186
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:39,120
being. 
Sorry. 

1187
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,600
Go on. 
So when it comes to whether or 

1188
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:48,280
not a status society can be 
oppressive, I definitely think 

1189
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,280
so, and especially in the 
political realm. 

1190
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:55,200
So if you watch a lot of 
engineering videos on YouTube, 

1191
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,280
the average person who is, you 
know, going to be making these 

1192
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:03,120
engineer videos tends to really 
know what they're talking about.

1193
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:08,800
When I look for tech videos and 
you know, my side job, a lot of 

1194
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:11,320
these people tend to be very 
educated. 

1195
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,080
If you look at the, you know, 
the high status people in the 

1196
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,840
realm of physics, they really 
know what they're talking about,

1197
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:21,240
the high status people. 
When it comes to, you know, 

1198
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:25,360
anything like microphones or 
cars or something like that, you

1199
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,560
see a high degree of competency.
But in the political realm, 

1200
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,720
where there was so little 
incentive for the average person

1201
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,520
to get informed, all the brain 
is going to do is take a 

1202
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,800
shortcut to which personalities 
they really like, because 

1203
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,280
there's so many issues which are
so complex. 

1204
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:46,480
Just to be, I mean informed on 
the Russia, Ukraine war from 

1205
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:51,120
2014, forget about how Putin 
starts it in the year 882 with 

1206
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:54,440
Warwick, just to be informed on 
the events from the Maidan 

1207
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,360
revolution in 2014 to what's 
happening today. 

1208
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:02,160
So few people have the care 
because every second you spend 

1209
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,320
doing that as a second less, you
could be doing something else. 

1210
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:08,800
So in the political realm, we 
see it much more so because 

1211
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,160
we're expecting people to be 
able to comment on immigration, 

1212
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:16,640
minimum wage, the Second World 
War, Israel, Hamas, you know, 

1213
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:21,080
the Democrats, Hunter Biden, Joe
Biden, all of these totally 

1214
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:23,960
separate things. 
It's sort of like the fool's 

1215
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:27,040
errand of expecting, you know, 
the five year old who says when 

1216
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,200
I'm older, I'm going to be an 
astronaut and a dentist and I'm 

1217
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,560
going to play in the NBA and I'm
going to be in the NFL, it's 

1218
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,040
like that's just too much. 
So when these political 

1219
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,560
commentators are commenting on a
government that's just doing way

1220
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,680
too much, well, it's going to be
impossible for them to 

1221
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:43,840
accurately analyze almost every 
aspect of it. 

1222
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:48,520
Maybe Ben Shapiro is the closest
you can do as far as, you know, 

1223
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:55,120
giving a real idea of someone 
who was able to show themselves,

1224
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:58,319
as you know, being able to be 
very informed on all these 

1225
01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:01,359
different issues. 
OK, you have a handful of people

1226
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:04,840
in a population of 330 million. 
That's exactly what you would 

1227
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,760
expect. 
When you have a huge government 

1228
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,960
that's in all these realms of 
society, you can't get anyone to

1229
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,240
actually really understand these
issues in depth. 

1230
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:16,680
So the brain shortcut to who 
should I listen to Is going to 

1231
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:20,240
use personality as the sorting 
mechanism of who they're going 

1232
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,319
to listen to. 
So the bigger the state, the the

1233
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:26,720
more you're going to have people
who are just attracted to 

1234
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,200
personalities as opposed to 
actual issues. 

1235
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:36,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So it's it's both a product of 

1236
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,359
the, the mind as you mentioned, 
the custody mechanism, but it's 

1237
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:43,840
also an unfortunate reality of 
our current era and I hope that 

1238
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,080
it changes. 
Anyway, different story, 

1239
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,080
different day. 
Last question, last question, 

1240
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:55,120
what is the main take away from 
domestic imperialism? 

1241
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,560
And by the way guys, before he 
answers, if you guys have any 

1242
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,800
questions at all, this is the 
last call. 

1243
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,200
I will put your question up on 
the screen and I will ask. 

1244
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:08,160
We'll take about two or three 
questions maybe because I 

1245
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,080
respect my guest time and I want
them to be able to of course be 

1246
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:13,960
able to go if he needs to. 
But what is should be the main 

1247
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,160
take away from your book 
domestic Imperialism? 

1248
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,160
And how can people find it? 
What it were the links to find 

1249
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,520
it or buy it or whatever? 
You can get it at 

1250
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:28,120
libertarianinstitute.org. 
We give the PDF away totally 

1251
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:32,120
free. 
We are a charity A501C3, so you 

1252
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:34,760
can get a free PDF there. 
Or you could buy it on Barnes 

1253
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,320
and Noble or Amazon if you'd 
like. 

1254
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:41,480
A hardcover or paperback or 
Kindle as well. 

1255
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:46,040
The main take away is that so 
many of the injustices 

1256
01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:49,400
throughout history are pretty 
clear when looking in the 

1257
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:53,560
rearview mirror and when you're 
not really bought into one side 

1258
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,840
or the other. 
So in order to determine who is 

1259
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:00,280
right and wrong in the present, 
we have to have some objective 

1260
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:05,120
method of weighing good behavior
versus bad behavior. 

1261
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,520
And this means not having double
standards for people based on 

1262
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:15,280
race, gender, ethnicity, or even
intelligence when it comes to 

1263
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:17,680
what rights they should have as 
a human being. 

1264
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:22,680
So this generally means this 
take away is the biggest, you 

1265
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,280
know, way that this issue was 
amplified of having double 

1266
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,200
standards is the double standard
that people have when it comes 

1267
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:30,960
to the state. 
People will clearly say that 

1268
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,200
murder is wrong, yet justify 
mass murder campaigns that 

1269
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,560
governments regularly involve 
themselves in. 

1270
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,080
They say that, well, there's 
nothing really wrong with 

1271
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,120
taxation. 
You're paying for a service, 

1272
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:44,480
don't be so cheap. 
But if any other organization 

1273
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:48,040
within society were to begin to 
issue taxes on your income, 

1274
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,240
well, then you would see it as 
the theft that it actually is. 

1275
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:56,640
Military conscription being a 
$20 word for forced labor and 

1276
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:00,200
slavery. 
That is the big take away that 

1277
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:04,240
whenever you have double 
standards, that little hole in 

1278
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,480
your philosophy is going to 
attract like a bat, signal the 

1279
01:12:07,480 --> 01:12:13,120
worst psychopaths in the society
and the population at large is 

1280
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:16,480
not going to have a very big 
incentive to combat those very 

1281
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:19,640
few people. 
So domestic imperialism is just 

1282
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:25,320
saying that for the same reason 
the people of Mexico would not 

1283
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,640
have the right to coercively 
dominate the people of America. 

1284
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,160
The people of Washington, DC do 
not have the right to coercively

1285
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:36,920
control 330 million strangers. 
All right. 

1286
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:41,520
And that is a very fine and 
very, dare I say, pro American 

1287
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,400
message. 
And so I am happy that you wrote

1288
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:46,080
the book. 
I'm happy that you're willing to

1289
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,360
come on and take some some point
at questions of course done in 

1290
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,760
good faith. 
But ones that hope that help 

1291
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:58,080
flesh out, I think, the broader 
moral and political project of 

1292
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,640
of what you're trying to 
achieve, which is going to be 

1293
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,120
beneficial for generations to 
come, I believe so. 

1294
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:04,840
Keith, thank you so much for 
coming. 

1295
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,920
I have your, I linked your book 
in the chat. 

1296
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:09,920
It's right there. 
Find it right there. 

1297
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:14,160
And so I I hope that people go 
ahead and buy it, download it, 

1298
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:16,920
share it and things and have 
more conversations with what we 

1299
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:18,520
had today. 
I think that it's going to be 

1300
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:23,040
very, very important going 
forward that we center our mind 

1301
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,680
when discussing fundamentals and
then work our way from there. 

1302
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,080
Do you have anything left for 
the audience or me that you like

1303
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:32,680
to say before we go? 
I want to thank you for your 

1304
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,520
time and getting through the 
contents of the book and the 

1305
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:37,360
thought you put into the 
questions. 

1306
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:38,840
Christian Watson, It's been a 
pleasure.