1 00:00:06,500 --> 00:00:09,400 If something is wrong for you or me, it is also wrong for the 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,600 cop, the soldier, the mayor, the governor, the general, the FED 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,900 chairman. The president, Seth does not 4 00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:18,300 become acceptable when called taxation counterfeiting, when 5 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:21,300 they call it monetary policy. Kidnapping, when they call it 6 00:00:21,300 --> 00:00:24,600 the draft mass murder when they call it foreign policy. 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,200 Welcome to Keith's night. Don't tread on anyone today. 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,600 We have a professor of Economics at George Mason University, a 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,000 senior fellow of the fa Hayek program for advanced study in 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,500 philosophy. See, politics and economics. 11 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:38,900 Mr. Boudreaux. Thank you so much for coming on. 12 00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:42,400 Thank you for having me. When you say free market 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,200 capitalism. What does that mean? 14 00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:52,700 For me, it means that there's a heavy strong presumption that 15 00:00:52,700 --> 00:00:57,900 every adult can use his or her property as he or she he or she 16 00:00:57,900 --> 00:01:00,200 sees fit, they can sell it, they can use it. 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,000 They can destroy it. They can accumulate, they can 18 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,800 build on a, they can deal with it. 19 00:01:05,900 --> 00:01:10,400 It's a strong presumption. I understand that you can make 20 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:13,800 good re you can make plausible reasons for having that 21 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,100 presumption rebutted in. Certain circumstances, but in 22 00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:24,900 all societies that Prosper that presumption does remain very 23 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:29,100 strong and it is relatively seldom overturned. 24 00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:33,300 So that's what I mean by free markets and and the resulting 25 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,900 exchange ratios the prices at which people sell their products 26 00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:42,400 including their labor Services, is also determined by voluntary 27 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,600 exchange and not by tradition, and not by the day. 28 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,700 Dictate of political authorities. 29 00:01:48,500 --> 00:01:50,600 And what would you say? You've been very critical of 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,000 government intervention? What would you say is the main 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,000 difference between doing something in the market or 32 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,600 having using the state as the mechanism to achieve a goal? 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,100 Well, in the market, the in the, the actions are voluntary and 34 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:07,100 they are discrete. So you, and I agreed to do this, 35 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:10,800 this program on, whatever terms we agree. 36 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,500 I go to the supermarket. I agree to pay three dollars for 37 00:02:14,508 --> 00:02:17,400 a gallon of milk in the Agrees to give me a gallon of milk in 38 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,200 exchange for my three dollars. And we don't have anyone 39 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,400 superintending, our decisions. They don't have any one 40 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,800 overriding, our decisions. And so there's a strong 41 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,100 presumption that when two adults engage in voluntary trade both 42 00:02:28,100 --> 00:02:31,300 adults gain from that trade, of course, people make mistakes, 43 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,200 but that's true in all Realms of human endeavor. 44 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:39,300 So the presumption is that when people exchange voluntarily 45 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,900 property that belongs to themselves, rather than property 46 00:02:41,900 --> 00:02:45,900 that belongs to others that eat. But because in each case, Each 47 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:49,300 person is made better off the accumulation of those exchanges 48 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:52,100 makes everyone in the society. Better off. 49 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,900 Now, say, I am a progressive, who believes that the consumer. 50 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,800 It's very difficult to have knowledge about all the products 51 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,700 you use throughout the day, in order to have, whereas these big 52 00:03:03,700 --> 00:03:06,800 corporations. They have so much money. 53 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:09,300 That why would they care about One? 54 00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:11,400 Customer out of the billions? They have potential. 55 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,200 My question to you is, as the free market Advocate, who 56 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,000 protects the consumer competition, protects the 57 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,700 consumer. And if a corporation for each, 58 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:23,800 from each consumers perspective, that her is one of many 59 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,700 customers for the corporation, the corporation cannot afford to 60 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:30,500 treat each consumer in that way. If the, if the corporation 61 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:36,600 mistreats me, then word, gets out to other consumers, and 62 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,100 other consumers, that are less likely to deal with that 63 00:03:39,100 --> 00:03:40,500 Corporation. If you look at, actually, the 64 00:03:40,500 --> 00:03:43,000 way corporations, big corporations are incredibly 65 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,900 sensitive to what consumers think about them. 66 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,600 Of course, you can find exceptions. 67 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,000 You can find acceptance, almost any rule in human behavior, but 68 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,300 corporations are incredibly sensitive. 69 00:03:52,500 --> 00:03:56,600 The public to their Public Image and just my colleague, Tyler 70 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,000 Cowen wrote a wonderful book earlier this year called big 71 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,300 business called big business in Praise of America's great Anti 72 00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:05,900 Hero or something like a subtitle. 73 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,200 And he makes the point. I think he's correct. 74 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,400 If you look at, actually the performance of large 75 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,400 corporations in market economies, they have done far 76 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,300 more to improve the living standards of ordinary men and 77 00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:21,000 women van have any intellectuals than has the state. 78 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,100 Because As businesses know that the greater their success at 79 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:29,500 satisfying consumers, the higher will be their profits, the 80 00:04:29,500 --> 00:04:32,800 higher, or their profits. The greater is the Temptation 81 00:04:32,900 --> 00:04:35,300 for other people, other Corporation other, entrepreneurs 82 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:37,600 to imitate them, or to try to outdo them. 83 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,100 That's the competitive Dynamic Market process. 84 00:04:40,100 --> 00:04:44,900 And that is what that is key to what has driven, our standard of 85 00:04:44,900 --> 00:04:49,500 living to the astonishing height, at which it rests at 86 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:52,300 that breast, which it is today and will continue to rise. 87 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:55,700 Long as the market is, it continues to breathe? 88 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,300 So, say, I not only care about the consumers, but I also care 89 00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:06,100 about the workers that very bad can working conditions can 90 00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:07,900 exist. And if there's not a regulatory 91 00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:12,000 state to sort of keep an eye on these corporations, the state 92 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,900 representing us obviously through our elected 93 00:05:13,900 --> 00:05:18,200 representatives. Then how then who protects the 94 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,800 workers in the absence of the state. 95 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,600 Overseeing Worker regulations such as OSHA. 96 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:31,000 Competition once again, I don't have to work just for my 97 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,800 employer. There are many employers out 98 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,300 there who would like my services in one form or another. 99 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:40,000 Now the I work for my particular employer because that particular 100 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,100 employer gives me the very best bargain given all my preferences 101 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:46,900 and and options. There are other places which I 102 00:05:46,900 --> 00:05:48,800 can, I can work. Very few Americans have worked 103 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,000 for only one employer in his or her life. 104 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,300 Very few. Americans fact, I would say no 105 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:58,900 American has only An option of working for one employer. 106 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,500 If you look at the data on worker, pay it tracks, very 107 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:10,400 closely worker productivity. There are claims from time to 108 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,600 time that there's been this disc decoupling, between compensation 109 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,400 and productivity, you know, if you want to, if you want to diss 110 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,100 the market, you you got to find reasons why the markets not 111 00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:23,000 working, but when you look at the data carefully as I and a, 112 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,700 and then my graduate student Lisa Elliot Allagash really did 113 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:29,500 a number of years ago. We looked at the data on 114 00:06:29,900 --> 00:06:33,900 American worker, pay an American worker productivity and we found 115 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:38,100 along with some other Scholars. Some other Scholars at other 116 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:40,600 universities. We found that worker pay tracks 117 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,600 productivity. The reason worker pay tracks 118 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:49,300 worker productivity because if my employer doesn't pay me what 119 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:52,800 I'm worth, then I am to likely to get bit away. 120 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,800 And so it's my Obviously would like to pay me a pittance to 121 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,900 work for it, but I'm not going to work for a pittance. 122 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:03,300 And the reason I'm not going to work for pittance is because I 123 00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:05,000 have other employers who are willing to pay anymore. 124 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,800 So this competitive process just as it pushes the price of 125 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:12,600 consumer goods down, as far as possible and increases the 126 00:07:12,608 --> 00:07:15,600 quality and abundance and variety of consumer goods. 127 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,600 As much as possible. That same competition raises, 128 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,900 the work raises wages, and fringe benefits to Heights as 129 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,600 high as possible as well as the quality of jobs Americans. 130 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,500 Today. I think a lot of Americans today 131 00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:32,800 are under this myth that somehow American workers are being 132 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,800 mistreated and abused. And the general fact is that 133 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,900 that's simply not not true. Again. 134 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:42,800 Of course, you can find exceptions or 150 million jobs. 135 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,400 In today's American economy, nearly 160 million actually, but 136 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:48,900 overall the typical American workers. 137 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:51,600 Highly paid. Well, compensated, and working 138 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,100 in conditions, by the way that are as comfortable and as safe 139 00:07:55,100 --> 00:08:01,800 as Any time in history, now, see, I fear that monopolies will 140 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,700 exist in the absence of a state, sort of intervening making sure 141 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,700 companies don't merge in merging. 142 00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:10,900 They will create less competition. 143 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,700 They will give me as the consumer less choice. 144 00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:16,900 And in fact, well, I don't want to go there. 145 00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:20,700 That's the theory. So another words, the monopolies 146 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:23,600 will almost become more powerful than the state. 147 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:27,200 In in the way of They'll control a large portion of the 148 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:28,600 resources. They will be able to bid up the 149 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,000 price. I will have no bargaining power. 150 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,799 As a consumer, nor a worker is the existence of monopolies. 151 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:40,100 In our a justification for State intervention and a argument 152 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:44,400 against free market capitalism. No, you know, you can tell that 153 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:49,600 story and you can certainly tell a logically coherent tail where 154 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,900 that might happen. But both Theory and history lend 155 00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:57,000 no. To that story first, just just 156 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,400 look at history. There's no example in history 157 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:06,400 that I know of in which private firms have gained power in the 158 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,900 market on their own without government, support to harm, 159 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:13,500 consumers over any length of time at all. 160 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:17,700 You know, we Americans we had the story of American antitrust 161 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:25,500 and when I was a young scholar, that was a major focus of My 162 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:28,800 research, the history of American antitrust policy and 163 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,400 what I, and my then colleague, Tom dilorenzo and some other 164 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,600 Scholars, Gary, live cap, economic story, what we found 165 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:40,700 largely through independent research, is that in the 1880s 166 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,700 to the First Federal antitrust, statute was passed in 1890, the 167 00:09:43,708 --> 00:09:47,100 Sherman Antitrust, Act. And so you'd think if the story 168 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:49,400 is correct at the Sherman Antitrust Act was enacted in 169 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,500 order to rid the American economy of these monopolies that 170 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:55,000 were rise, and you'd think that they'd be evidence during the 171 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,200 1880s. Sweeping up to 1890 of 172 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,800 monopolization of high prices of of worker wages, being kept way 173 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,400 too low of the reduction, and output of a reduction in the 174 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,400 quality of consumer goods, we find just the opposite. 175 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,100 If you look at what happened in the 1880s, was a period in 176 00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:14,900 American economic history of incredible economic growth. 177 00:10:14,900 --> 00:10:18,800 It did give rise to large firms. That's because of the railroad 178 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,700 and the telegraph, they were making the market larger. 179 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:25,300 And so, with a larger market larger sized, firms become 180 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,200 Sufficient to serve those markets and so we did have 181 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,800 larger firms but the accusation that standard oil for example or 182 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:39,500 the Chicago slaughterhouses in the 1880s and 1890s were 183 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:42,400 monopolies in the way that economists use the term is 184 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,700 simply not borne out by the facts quite the opposite. 185 00:10:44,700 --> 00:10:46,400 These firms were driving prices down. 186 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,800 They were driving outputs up and they were driving quality 187 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:51,800 antitrust. The antitrust legislation that 188 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,100 we had in the United States was in fact enacted. 189 00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:58,200 To protect consumers from monopolist. 190 00:10:58,300 --> 00:11:01,100 They were enacted the statutes work at the federal and state 191 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:03,300 level. They were enacted to protect 192 00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:07,000 existing less efficient producers from the competition 193 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:11,000 of these very firms that were accused of being monopolist. 194 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,500 And so there's no history lens. No support to those people who 195 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:15,200 worry that merges. A large firms. 196 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:19,200 Will will undermine a competitive economy and in 197 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,300 economic theory, it's pretty simple. 198 00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:23,600 As long as the government doesn't restrict entry 199 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:27,500 entrepreneurs are Totally creative and fortunately 200 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,000 incredibly persistent and Incredibly interested in making 201 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,600 a buck that when an opportunity when offers are constantly on 202 00:11:35,608 --> 00:11:40,200 the lookout for opportunities to satisfy consumers in ways, that 203 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,300 consumers aren't well. Satisfied at the moment. 204 00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:45,800 That's what you make a profit. And when, if a firm isn't 205 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,400 adequately treating its consumers, if it from isn't 206 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,400 adequate treating its suppliers, it such as workers that presents 207 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,800 a profit opportunity to other entrepreneurs. 208 00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:57,100 They sweep in and they offer better products. 209 00:11:57,100 --> 00:12:00,700 They offer better jobs. This is the story of American 210 00:12:00,700 --> 00:12:03,700 economic growth. This is a story of growth in all 211 00:12:03,700 --> 00:12:05,700 market economies, including Great, Britain, when markets 212 00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:08,600 have have been free when the state intervenes. 213 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:12,700 It's almost always whether it's the intent or not of the 214 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:14,400 intervention. It's almost always the effect of 215 00:12:14,408 --> 00:12:17,300 the intervention, not to promote competition and to help 216 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:19,500 consumers and workers. It's the opposite, it's to 217 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,000 stymie competition and the harm consumers and workers. 218 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,900 That's what history shows and we have good, good good theory of 219 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:28,600 understanding why? That consequence emerges, why 220 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,500 are some countries wealthy and some countries? 221 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:35,700 Poor, the simple answer? Is this the extent to, which 222 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:41,200 they're so, I like the economic historian Deirdre McCloskey. 223 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,900 He's way of putting it. Rich countries or countries, 224 00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:46,500 that have made. What she calls the bhujbal 225 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:50,100 bargain. We agree to play by the, by the 226 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:53,700 rules of the market. So so entrepreneurs are free to 227 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:58,300 innovate. Which means free to to cause 228 00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:00,200 existing producers to go bankrupt. 229 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,600 So that resources, move from less efficient to more efficient 230 00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:09,100 uses consumers, get new, and better, and less expensive 231 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:12,000 products. And so if consumers, if a 232 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,400 society makes the Buchwald bargain, where the the large 233 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,800 number of people in that Society are willing to play by the rules 234 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,700 of the market economy, then those and, you know, respect 235 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:26,600 private property rights, you have Something close to a rule 236 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,500 of law. The government isn't isn't 237 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:32,700 excessively intrusive. Look in my ideal world. 238 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:35,000 I suspect in your idea where government be really, really 239 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,500 tiny. If it exists at all. 240 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:44,400 I have since I was your age, I have learned that the market is 241 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,700 more robust than I once thought it was. 242 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:49,800 It can actually stand up to a lot of beating and abuse. 243 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,700 I don't Advocate that beating and abuse, the world would be 244 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:56,200 better if that beating, and if you didn't occur, but It's not 245 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,800 the case that the slightest intervention here. 246 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,400 The excessively High taxpayer is going to cause Society to cause 247 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,200 a market oriented Society to crumble, into in into Rubble. 248 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,400 It takes a lot to destroy a robust market economy. 249 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,400 And so, that's why over the long run. 250 00:14:15,408 --> 00:14:20,000 I remain optimistic, but but, but, but we in the United States 251 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,000 are wealthy to the extent that our ancestors have, and the 252 00:14:25,008 --> 00:14:28,600 extent that we Continue to stick to this to have made and 253 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,000 continue to stick to the bushwa whose real bargain. 254 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,900 We still largely honor entrepreneurs. 255 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:41,300 There's freedom of entry into most markets government doesn't 256 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:47,200 Isn't So arbitrary. Yet that it destroys Enterprise. 257 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,100 And as long as those little niches of Freedom exists, we 258 00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:56,700 will continue to prosper again. I Would like the government to 259 00:14:56,708 --> 00:14:58,600 be much smaller. I would like Texas to be much 260 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,200 lower. I like regulations by government 261 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,900 to be much fewer. Things would be even better. 262 00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:08,400 But but we still do, have I think a more or less a bushwa 263 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,500 society and that can save us from a lot of evil and a lot of 264 00:15:12,508 --> 00:15:16,100 calamity. You wrote an article titled. 265 00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:18,900 You are richer than John D Rockefeller. 266 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:21,400 I'm curious. What did you mean by that? 267 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,800 And how do you measure wealth in an economy? 268 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:27,500 Yeah. So obviously, at one, at the 269 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:30,700 ultimate level, how wealthy you are, how materially well-off you 270 00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:34,800 are or how wealthy you feel is a subjective matter. 271 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:39,500 But what I meant by that is, if you just look at the access to 272 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:43,200 material goods and services that people have today. 273 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,600 Compared to the material goods and services that John D. 274 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,900 Rockefeller had a hundred years ago. 275 00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:54,200 I wrote I wrote the piece in 2016, but still applicable 2020 276 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,200 19. And so John D. 277 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,800 Rockefeller was arguably the certainly the richest man in the 278 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,400 world. Certainly one of the richest 279 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,300 Americans famously Rich. He had things that you and I 280 00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:09,800 don't have and you and I will never have, he had many many 281 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,900 homes. Get a home in Newport. 282 00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:13,500 He had a, you know, he could buy a nice. 283 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:17,000 And if you wanted you and I will never be able to buy an island 284 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,300 or have Prime beachfront property. 285 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:23,200 So, in that sense, he is richer, but in a lot of Senses, we are 286 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,800 Richard, we have. Oh, I don't know. 287 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,700 Antibiotics, which, for me is a big thing. 288 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:37,300 If I or you get a blister or cut ourselves while while doing yard 289 00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:41,300 work, there's very little risk that will die from any infection 290 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:43,000 that we get because we have antibiotics. 291 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,700 And we had these Little many of which you can buy over the 292 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:50,300 counter, you know, antibiotics spray and antibiotic bandages, 293 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:54,600 John D. Rockefeller didn't have that air 294 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,100 conditioning. It's a hot day here in Northern 295 00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:00,200 Virginia and without air conditioning. 296 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,400 How would be really uncomfortable? 297 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,300 John D. Rockefeller didn't have air 298 00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:06,000 conditioning until the very end of his life. 299 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,400 He died in 1937. He did not have jet travel. 300 00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:16,400 He could not pick up. A little slab like a cellphone 301 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,300 and and talk to people whenever he wanted in real time. 302 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,800 He and 19 before 1920. He could not listen to a 303 00:17:25,808 --> 00:17:27,800 commercial radio broadcast. He certainly didn't have 304 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,000 television, didn't have YouTube, didn't have the internet and 305 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,300 have laptop computers. The range of food that he had 306 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,500 available is was to him, even though he was the one of the 307 00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:38,400 wealthiest people in the world was much smaller than the range 308 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,900 of food that you and I have within five miles of where we 309 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:43,600 live. If we live in any any place 310 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,300 close. To a even, a medium sized, 311 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:53,500 American city. So compared to there are lots of 312 00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:57,300 things that John D. Rockefeller did not have that 313 00:17:57,300 --> 00:18:00,800 ordinary Americans have today and they and these things are in 314 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,400 such abundance that I think it's a fair argument to say that 315 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,900 ordinary Americans today are at least as wealthy as, and perhaps 316 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:11,600 even wealthier than in a material sense as John D 317 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,800 Rockefeller. One way, I put it in my piece. 318 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,900 Aces. If you know, if you take a real 319 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:21,100 careful survey of the life of John D Rockefeller in the late 320 00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:24,700 1910s, and your life today. And ask yourself. 321 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:32,700 If you could go back to 1919 or 1916 and live like John D 322 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:35,900 Rockefeller, what would it be? What would it be worth to you? 323 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:37,400 Would you have to be paid to do it? 324 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,500 Or would you pay to do it for me? 325 00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:41,700 I would have to be paid to do it. 326 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,400 I would not want to live without antibiotics. 327 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:44,800 I mean I want to Without air conditioning. 328 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,900 I would not want to live without radio and television or the 329 00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:53,700 computer or the internet or you know cars that don't break that. 330 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:57,000 Don't break down a cell phones. These are things that we take 331 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,300 for granted. It's an irony of the market that 332 00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:04,600 it provides an abundance of goods and services at so cheaper 333 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,300 price and frankly. So reliably that they don't have 334 00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:10,400 to be around for very long, but they become part of the 335 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,600 background like white water to a fish. 336 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,900 We just take them for granted. And it's ironic, that people 337 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:22,500 will complain about capitalism while tweeting on their iPhones. 338 00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:25,700 They don't see the irony in that, but it's highly ironic. 339 00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:26,900 When you, when you think about it. 340 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,700 Look what we're doing here. We are talking about. 341 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:30,100 Where are you physically right now? 342 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,400 Chandler, Arizona. Yeah, you know, it would back 343 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,700 back in John D Rockefeller. Thursday would take, probably at 344 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:41,600 least three days by railroad for me to get from Northern, 345 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,700 Virginia to Chandler, Arizona. And by the way, I probably would 346 00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:49,000 not want to be in Chandler, Arizona, in mid-august without 347 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,400 air conditioning. What's the temperature outside? 348 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,000 There are five annotated. Yeah, but it's dry here is 349 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,900 getting up to 95, but it's humid. 350 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:01,000 So pretty bad in both places and yet neither you nor I want to 351 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,400 suffer. We're not we're not going to die 352 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,200 if heat stroke because we're in an air-conditioned places and so 353 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,500 just just just what we're doing today. 354 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:09,100 We take it for granted. We think it's normal. 355 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,200 I'm talking you and I are talking in real time and we are 356 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,500 separated. By almost 3,000 miles. 357 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:21,400 This is astonishing yet. We take it for granted, and what 358 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,000 gave would gives us? This is the Bourgeois bargain. 359 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:30,100 It's the Innovation and the dynamism of market-driven 360 00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:33,200 capitalism. Now say hi. 361 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:36,000 Look out at the world and I see very, very rich people with 362 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,400 billions of dollars in net worth and I see homeless people in the 363 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,200 same country in the same city. If you go to San Francisco, does 364 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,900 the existence of monetary inequality justify State 365 00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:50,600 intervention? And is it an argument against 366 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,200 free market capitalism? No, it does not justify state in 367 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,600 intervention. As long as the inequality of 368 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,800 wealth was earned by through a process of voluntary. 369 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,300 Changes, I don't see that. It's anyone's business. 370 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:10,300 How much Jeff Bezos has or how much Bill Gates or Warren 371 00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:13,500 Buffett have been. Obviously if people get to the 372 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:17,600 extent that people get their wealth by predating on others 373 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,900 than that. That that wealth is unearned, 374 00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:26,700 but what is on what is dis undesirable about that 375 00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:28,700 distribution of wealth? Is not the distribution itself. 376 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,100 It's the manner in which the distribution came about. 377 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,200 And and you know, I think people when they worry about wealth 378 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,600 inequality, a lot of this concern, some of his I think you 379 00:21:40,608 --> 00:21:46,500 just plain Envy which is a sentiment that good parents 380 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:49,200 teach their young children to avoid. 381 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,900 It is a natural human emotion. I get it because I'm human but 382 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:57,600 it's not a sentiment that we should be that we should be 383 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,700 proud of it went on those occasions when I feel Envy 384 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,700 ice-cold myself. I don't like myself. 385 00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:08,800 I try to try to rise above that, that base sentiment. 386 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,400 So I think a lot of the hostility to wealth inequalities 387 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,300 Envy just knowing that. That some Jeff Bezos has more 388 00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:20,100 money than me. I wish I had that much money and 389 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:26,100 some envious, but a lot of the concern I think is that it is 390 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,900 well, meaning and sense. It is not driven by Envy, but 391 00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:31,900 it's driven by. Economic ignorance. 392 00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:36,100 A lot of people have this notion that that that wealth in the 393 00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:39,000 world. Is this Big Blob and it exists. 394 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,200 If not in fixed quantities, independently Of Human Action 395 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,600 and human institutions. And if wealth is just this Big 396 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,900 Blob of stuff out there that has nothing really to do with your 397 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,900 choices, or my choices, or the institutions of the society, in 398 00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:57,100 which we live. Then if you happen to grab a 399 00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:59,600 larger chunk than I have. Or if a larger chunk happened to 400 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,900 fall onto your House, then fell into my house, then it might be 401 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,100 difficult to justify. But of course. 402 00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:12,000 Well isn't a a pre-existing chunk of stuff that exists. 403 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,500 It's created, wealth is created. You know, the the first book 404 00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:19,300 first book in modern economics, my by discipline, it was written 405 00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:22,900 by in 1776, by Adam Smith. And full title is an inquiry 406 00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:26,200 into the nature and causes of The Wealth of Nations into the 407 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,900 causes of The Wealth of Nations. Wealth is causes. 408 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,600 And for most of you History, not much wealth was caused because 409 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,400 we weren't very wealthy. We fortunately in the past 200 410 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,500 so years have stumbled upon a set of social institutions is 411 00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:42,000 bhujbal. Bargain that mycoskie talks 412 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,600 about. That allows the creation, the 413 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,700 causation of a great deal of wealth for ordinary men and 414 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:52,300 women. And what people who complain 415 00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:54,500 about income inequality, many people who complained income 416 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:59,100 inequality forget. I don't realize is that if you 417 00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:03,300 just start willy-nilly, Eating the fruits of wealth creation, 418 00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:08,200 you will destroy, or at least greatly hamper, the institutions 419 00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:10,100 and origins of that wealth itself. 420 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:13,900 And so you'll have a lot less wealth to to distribute. 421 00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:16,300 And also there's this when wealthy. 422 00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:20,500 So so Jeff Bezos, I don't know what magnitude one, but multiple 423 00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,300 of wealthy has more than me, you know, several hundred thousand 424 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:26,300 times more wealth than me and I'm, you know, I'm pretty well 425 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:30,500 off, even by American Standards, but he's vastly more Rich than 426 00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:34,000 me, but this Jeff Peace. Be so seats a 170 thousand times 427 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,500 more food than I do is the quality of his wine 170 thousand 428 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:40,400 times better than mine. Will he live a hundred seventy 429 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,200 thousand times longer than me. He says computer 170 thousand 430 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,000 times better than uses Healthcare hundred seventy 431 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,100 thousand times better than you know, all right. 432 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,700 In some cases. It's not better at all. 433 00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:55,000 I bet when he has a headache, he takes exactly the same thing. 434 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,300 I do. Bayer Aspirin. 435 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,300 I bet he eats the same number of calories as I do. 436 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:04,100 I bet the Sir, and his home is identical to the temperature in 437 00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:07,000 my home. She probably sleeps the same 438 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,600 number of hours that I actually need to sleep Swift because he's 439 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,400 more productive than I am and so much of it. 440 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,700 Jeff the great majority of Jeff Bezos has wealth and this is 441 00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:20,500 true for other people. Like him is not tied up in a 442 00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:24,900 bunch of consumption Goods that he's gobbling down its invested 443 00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:28,800 in companies that produce outputs that make your life and 444 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,000 my life better, that create jobs. 445 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,000 For fellow Americans and people around the world. 446 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,000 And so if you if you see the government seizes a great deal 447 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,200 of Jeff Bezos as well. It will take resources from 448 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,000 where they are being used to produce, not for Jeff Bezos 449 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,400 directly, but for you and me and countless other people and and 450 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,000 be wasted in whatever programs, the government uses those, those 451 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,400 resources for. But, but again, but on this 452 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,300 issue, I, My ultimate argument is an ethical L1 if Jeff Bezos, 453 00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:05,900 didn't steal his wealth. If Bill, Gates didn't steal his 454 00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:07,300 wealth and they are entitled to the. 455 00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:10,900 Well, I am not entitled to it. Even if you can tell a fully 456 00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:14,700 coherent story that the world would be made better off by 457 00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:17,100 taking his wealth and giving it to me. 458 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,200 I'm not entitled to it. So it's not mine, and I don't 459 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,300 want it. So say, I only care about the 460 00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:28,100 polar and the general well-being of the nation state. 461 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,000 Why should I someone with such a big? 462 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,600 Mark Advocate, something like free market capitalism because 463 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,300 free market. Capitalism is proven 464 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:42,300 historically to be the greatest benefactor of the poor and the 465 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:46,400 middle class free market. Capitalism, is done, far more 466 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,100 for the 99% than is done for the one percent. 467 00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:51,400 Sure. It's Rich to everyone. 468 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:58,200 But, 300 years ago, the elite the 1% They had solid roofs 469 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,600 above their head. They had solid floors beneath 470 00:27:00,700 --> 00:27:01,600 their feet. Feet. 471 00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:05,000 They could take Leisure, they could educate their their 472 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:11,100 children. They had, they could snap their 473 00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:14,700 fingers and get white when the servants would run in and like, 474 00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:18,800 the chandelier right Ordinary People. 99 percent people didn't 475 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,400 have that. Most people had thatch roofs 476 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,600 above their heads and they had dirt floors beneath their feet. 477 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,600 They didn't have, they didn't have indoor plumbing. 478 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:31,000 They didn't even have Windows on the Huts that they lived in. 479 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,200 In many cases, they used farm animals for heat. 480 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,700 They died, really early. They had no very seldom had 481 00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:45,400 opportunities to learn and and for cultural enrichment. 482 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,800 And and what capitalism is done with free market capitalism is 483 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,300 done. Its greatest achievement is to 484 00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:56,600 bring material prosperity to ordinary men and women and their 485 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,200 children and that material prosperity in turn has allowed 486 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,400 ordinary men with Women to have two League dignified, meaningful 487 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,300 lives in a way, that was simply impossible when we were living 488 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,200 hand-to-mouth subsistence. Existences, prior to the 489 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,300 Industrial Age. I got two more questions for 490 00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:18,300 you. I want to respect your time, say 491 00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:21,800 I am an environmentalist. And my primary concern is about 492 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,400 the well-being of the environment. 493 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,400 Surely. We need a state to protect the 494 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,000 environment and deal with externalities is my care for the 495 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,900 environment. Just reason to support state 496 00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:35,200 intervention and opposed free market capitalism. 497 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:37,400 I can tell, by the way, you asked the question that you 498 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,300 understand the economics of it. Yeah, you can, you can make a 499 00:28:40,308 --> 00:28:44,100 case that if externalities negative externalities, when 500 00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:46,000 economists call negative externalities exist. 501 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,600 So, you know, pollution out of the smokestack, then the market 502 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,300 doesn't work often in those circumstances to cause private 503 00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:56,500 actors to behave in a socially responsible, way. 504 00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:59,500 You can tell that story but have to keep two things in mind. 505 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:07,800 One is The state itself is State officials themselves are 506 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,100 affected by the same, lack of information, and lack of 507 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:15,600 property rights that sometimes cause private individuals to not 508 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,400 act in in the socially best Manner. 509 00:29:18,700 --> 00:29:23,900 And so turning power over to the state that doesn't necessarily 510 00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:28,500 cause the problem to, to be improved, you have to trust 511 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:30,600 State actors to do. What's right. 512 00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:34,300 You okay? You can tell a coherent story 513 00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:36,200 where that might happen. But if you look at the most 514 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,600 powerful states in the past 100 years, they have been the states 515 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,900 that have they have ruled over countries, that have had the 516 00:29:42,900 --> 00:29:47,900 worst pollution, Soviet Union, Eastern, Eastern Europe, 517 00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:51,000 pollution, and those countries under the collectivist 518 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:57,400 governments of the 20th century have have been much more lenient 519 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,900 on polluters then have Western governments. 520 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,300 It's the second thing to keep in mind. 521 00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:08,000 So the first thing is the danger of granting the state power to 522 00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:12,500 interfere in markets. The goose may be killed, that's 523 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:15,800 laying the golden eggs. We the state might eliminate 524 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:21,000 pollution, but at the same time eliminate the the the wealth 525 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,300 that we all like the markets to provide second thing to keep in 526 00:30:24,308 --> 00:30:28,100 mind is that if you look at the actual environment that we 527 00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:33,400 ordinary people live in, I like to put Wait, we today are lucky 528 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,300 to be able to worry about things like global warming and species 529 00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:40,100 loss. I'm not saying here that we 530 00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:43,900 should worry about those things. But we're fortunate that most 531 00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:46,400 that so many of the environmental problems that 532 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,500 Afflicted, our ancestors have been solved that. 533 00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:52,800 Now we can turn our attention to problems that are far more 534 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,400 speculative and whose consequences are far more 535 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,700 distant than where the environmental damages and that 536 00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:02,200 ravaged our ancestors. Prior to the Industrial Age. 537 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,300 That was the wind or Plumbing. That I don't have to your mat. 538 00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:08,400 You don't need much of an imagination to figure out how 539 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:09,600 bad that would be. Again. 540 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,700 We will living beneath fact proves and on dirt floors. 541 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,200 They were no antibiotics. The one of the greatest 542 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,500 pollutants in human history is is bacteria or bacteria that 543 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,000 killed us. We have this great anti balut 544 00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:25,700 anti pollutant called antibiotics that when we get a 545 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:29,600 cut or we get infection somehow, take the antibiotic and that 546 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,700 pollution goes away. That's Brought To Us, by the 547 00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:35,200 way, by industrial capitalism. We have, we have Eric. 548 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,200 Again. We have air conditioning flush 549 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,900 flush, toilets. We have antibacterial soaps. 550 00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:42,900 We have cleansers in our home. We have these machines in our 551 00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:45,500 own car washers. Dryers and electronic 552 00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:48,200 dishwashers. All of these things, make our 553 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,500 personal environment a lot cleaner. 554 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,500 And so, our personal environments in which we 555 00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:57,100 personally live, today are far cleaner, then with the 556 00:31:57,108 --> 00:32:00,700 environments in which even the rich lived, 200 years ago. 557 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,700 And so now that those environments are clean. 558 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,100 Okay, then we can turn our attention to worry about what's 559 00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:09,900 going to happen to the global environment. 75 75 years from 560 00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:11,700 now. And the reason people can and do 561 00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:17,300 dispute what's happening. And what are the best approaches 562 00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:21,500 to deal with that? But let's stop and thank 563 00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:24,200 industrial. Capitalism the bhujbal, bargain 564 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,300 the Bourgeois ideal for cleaning, our personal 565 00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:30,900 environments, making a personal environment. 566 00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:35,900 Actually antiseptic and and spotlessly clean compared to 567 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,600 what those environments were for the vast majority of all of our 568 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,600 ancestors. And finally, one book, if you 569 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,200 could recommend one book for everyone in the world to read, 570 00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:50,300 what book would that be? Wow, what a great question. 571 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,700 Any constraints. I mean, so you're asking my so 572 00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:57,600 the book that I found most influential. 573 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:06,800 On me. Fa Hayek's, the first two 574 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,200 volumes of f. A Hayek slaw legislation and 575 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,700 Liberty, but I can't just say one. 576 00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:14,100 I would say Julian Simon is the ultimate resource. 577 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,400 Oh, that's a good one. Gotta send a copy to Paul are 578 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,900 lick and Thomas. Malthus is great. 579 00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:23,300 Boudreaux. Thank you so much for coming on. 580 00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:25,800 I greatly greatly. Appreciate your time. 581 00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:27,100 It's been a pleasure being with you. 582 00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:27,600 Thank you.