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Welcome to Keith's night, don't 
tread on anyone any libertarian 

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Institute today. 
I am joined by Dave to Camp, the

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news editor, at anti-war.com, 
and host of anti-war news with 

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Dave de Kamp. 
Mr. De Kamp, thank you so much 

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for your time, sir. 
Thanks for having me, Keith, 

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what does it mean to be 
anti-war? 

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Well, to me being anti war and 
for us at anti-war.com, it means

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more than just, you know, 
opposing your governments entry 

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into a war because usually at 
that, Point. 

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It's go most too late. 
It really means kind of opposing

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all the policies that can lead 
up to, you know, the involvement

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in the war or as we see with 
Ukraine right now, you know, 

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funding this proxy war on 
Russia's border by, you know, 

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funneling billions of dollars in
weapons in and really for me 

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it's, you know, 
non-interventionism is the 

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policy. 
And that's very reflective in my

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work and an anti-war.com where 
against sanctions were against, 

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you know. 
Trade Wars and things like that.

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And so it goes beyond just being
against, you know, once the hot 

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war starts just being against 
that and it's something that, 

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you know, more Americans need to
understand because a lot of 

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people call themselves anti-war 
because they're against the wars

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in the Middle East, let's say 
for now, which is great that 

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more people are against those 
Wars because of what a failure 

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they've been. 
But at the same time we have 

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these huge escalations with 
Russia and China Cold War style 

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as Escalations and relations are
just souring so much with these 

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two nuclear-armed powers. 
And, you know, people really 

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need to be opposed to this stuff
because it's not going to end 

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well. 
For any of us, people will often

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look at the benefits of War. 
For example, stopping the German

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National Socialist Party from 
expanding throughout Europe, 

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stopping stopping Japanese 
imperialism. 

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And their atrocities, the 
American Civil War leading to 

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the end of Plantation slavery. 
What would you say? 

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Are the costs or the downsides 
of war that people either 

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completely ignore or don't 
appreciate the depth of. 

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Well I mean you mentioned in 
World War 2 which is the one 

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that everybody always goes to 
that's the interventionists you 

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know greatest argument for every
war is that somebody's next 

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Hitler but you know and we're 
really kind of at least my 

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generation. 
You know, I'm 32 and I was 

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raised on World War two movies, 
Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks 

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world war two movies and it was 
kind of glorified. 

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To us but really World War. 2 
was the worst thing that's ever 

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happened in the history of the 
world. 

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I mean the scale of death and 
destruction in such a short 

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time. 
So the lesson should be how 

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could that have been avoided and
there's many ways. 

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But it always goes back to 
really World War 1 and the 

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Treaty of Versailles and trying 
to you know destroy Germany and 

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punish Germany for what they did
and it's just you know I mean 

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you look at there's so many 
ways. 

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I know you've gone over pack. 
Cannons book, Churchill Hitler 

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in the unnecessary war and and 
that's it. 

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You know I'm not it's not just 
me saying this some radical 

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anti-war libertarian guy. 
It's Churchill himself has said 

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you know that World War One 
Treaty of Versailles. 

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Why? 
You know gave rise to Hitler and

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the events leading up to it. 
Didn't all have to happen. 

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So we have to look at these 
lessons and if you just look at 

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all these countries that have 
been totally destroyed by War 

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and for the United States, we 
kind of were seemingly 

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unaffected by it. 
Until 9/11. 

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And now, we're really starting 
to see the consequences of being

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a global Empire and trying to 
control the world and 

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sanctioning everybody and the 
inflation. 

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And of course that goes into 
Central Banking and everything 

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which is why I think being 
libertarian is the most 

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consistent ideology with being 
anti-war because of the the 

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Central Banking aspect. 
But anyway, the cost of it, you 

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know, we're seeing the cost of 
being a global Empire right now 

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and that's it. 
Are rising costs and how nobody 

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can really afford anything. 
And we're starting to see, I 

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think really the decline of the 
American Empire and it's going 

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to really hurt Americans. 
I want to focus on the costs a 

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little more because we see a 
video in America of Eric Garner 

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getting killed or Kelly Thomas 
or Tony tempeh. 

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And we say what a horrible 
atrocity. 

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This is a person who could have 
lived and enjoyed life in the 

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absence of, you know, someone 
just unjustly taking their life 

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but When it comes to 60 million 
deaths in the second world war, 

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people say well it is what it 
is, that's what you got to do, 

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or, you know, the civilians and 
the donbas getting killed since 

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2014. 
Not really important. 

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But the second Russia goes into 
Ukraine, obviously, it's hell on

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Earth which of course, is bad. 
But they have no appreciation 

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for both sides of the issue. 
They just almost randomly not so

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randomly, pick a villain to 
hate. 

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So when it comes to deaths in 
war, when it comes, People 

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losing their limbs, getting 
PTSD, kids growing up without 

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parents. 
What else do people need to? 

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Really appreciate. 
So war is not some thing that's 

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in the distant that people in 
the military. 

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Focus on how do you really make 
the cost real to people and say 

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this matters? 
Well yeah I mean that's a tough 

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question because it's hard. 
You think about what our 

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government has done for the past
20 years? 

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Let's just talk about, you know,
the terror Wars all the 

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civilians that have been killed 
in that children and and the 

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hospitals that have been bombed 
by the US and weddings and drone

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strikes hitting Farmers as their
harvesting their crops and just 

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Horrors that are really 
unimaginable to people in the 

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United States. 
So those types of costs, it's 

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just really tough to to get 
people to understand what that 

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means and it's really amazing to
how easily they can shrug it 

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off. 
I mean, if they understand 

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what's happening in Yemen right 
now with the Saudi impose 

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blockade that Be happening 
without support from the US that

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it's just, it's a war on the 
country's, most vulnerable 

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because children and, you know, 
elderly, people sickly people 

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pregnant, women are the ones 
that are suffering the most from

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this policy. 
And it's really, you know, 

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people are starving to death in 
that country because of a war 

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that the u.s. is imposing on it.
And you really just, you have to

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try to put the shoe on the other
foot sometimes, I mean you think

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about what the US is trying to 
do to Russia when Russia 

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invaded. 
Crane abiding came out and said,

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you know, that they're going to 
try to destroy the Russian 

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economy and all that. 
So just imagine, you know what 

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if Putin came out and said that 
about the u.s. you think about 

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how much everybody freaks out 
about all this. 

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These bogus stories about 
Russian election interference 

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and stuff. 
Or if China, if she's in pain, 

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came out and said we're going to
make the American economy, 

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scream, things like that. 
Like just what the US imposes on

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the world. 
And I know I'm speaking from 

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like, a very American 
perspective, when you're 

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answering You asking me these 
questions but the cost it's just

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it's something that I think we 
have to really kind of get out 

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there to people, is the 
destruction and the deaths and 

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that's on my try to cover all 
the time about how us sanctions 

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are killing people in other 
countries because they lose 

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access to specialized medicine, 
and things like that. 

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And it's just such a brutal 
policy and it and it, you know, 

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creates enemies and all that, it
just the atrocities were 

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unbelievable. 
People Oil, you know, saving and

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working their whole lives to buy
houses that end up. 

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Getting bombed. 
One of my favorite Pap, you can 

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and moments is he's actually 
warning about NATO expansion and

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a potential conflict with Russia
because the u.s. is going back 

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on, you know, what, James Baker,
had promised Mikhail Gorbachev 

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and he goes, you know, these 
sanctions that the u.s. 

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government imposing around the 
world, you know, Saddam Hussein 

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Fidel Castro milosevic. 
They Well fed to me who do you 

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think's getting punished by 
these and it's so so typical 

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that you know Waging War on 
Putin and you know holding 

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Saddam accountable. 
Well obviously Saddam and 

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Gaddafi ended up getting killed 
but that's just one person. 

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The massive amounts of you know,
Terror. 

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That's actually happening is 
totally innocent people and of 

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course that that never gets any 
attention. 

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That's why I really appreciate 
places like anti-war.com when it

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comes to Two politicians making 
predictions and saying, look War

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isn't good, but we need to do it
so we get this outcome. 

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Historically, have you found any
correlation between the 

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predictions of politicians and 
real-world outcomes of Wars? 

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Well I mean you know just 
speaking with in our modern 

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history here like absolutely no 
correlation especially with the 

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terror Wars and what they said 
they wanted to do in Iraq and 

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Afghanistan. 
I mean at every Turn the 

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opposite happened in Afghanistan
after. 

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They changed to regime change. 
They said we got to take the 

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Taliban out. 
What? 

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When the u.s. left Afghanistan a
year ago? 

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The tablet, they left it. 
Like the country, it's more 

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controlled by the Taliban now 
than it ever has been before. 

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They never control the whole 
country, but they do now. 

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And now if you look at this 
economic war, that Biden tried 

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to launch against Russia, that's
totally backfired. 

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And the line was, oh, this is 
going to help stop the war 

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tutor, the war, but that hasn't 
happened. 

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It's made Putin, you know, kind 
of solidify his control. 

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And, you know, it gives them a 
foreign Boogeyman 2.2 to blame 

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for all the problems. 
And, you know, going we could go

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back further during the Cold 
War. 

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I mean, you think about the 
Domino Theory with Korea and 

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Vietnam and how Vietnam was just
a total disaster and then, you 

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know, the Communists ended up 
controlling the entire country 

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against similar to Afghanistan 
after all that. 

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And it's just the promises that 
they Make a go back to World War

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one. 
I mean that was about democracy,

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right? 
Wasn't that about spreading 

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democracy across the world and 
it gave rise to Nazism and 

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bolshevism. 
So the I think there's a lot of 

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examples like that. 
If you go back in history and 

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the rise of Mussolini, don't 
strip them of a Mussolini 

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credit. 
And of course, the Domino Theory

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didn't account for Hong Kong and
Singapore being two of the most 

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capitalist places on on the 
planet places that the u.s. can 

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learn a lot from what do people 
need to know about the 9/11 

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attacks. 
Well, you know, we just had the 

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anniversary and it does seem 
like a lot. 

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There's are so many more people 
now willing to say and that 

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recognized that it was no 
blowback. 

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It was the war coming home. 
We talked about these policies 

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and one of the most brutal 
things that happen throughout 

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the 1990s was the US sanctions 
and bombing campaign against 

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Iraq. 
There's this PBS documentary, 

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you talk about people saving up 
to buy their houses and I have 

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to find this clip. 
I saw it on Internet somewhere, 

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I gotta seek it out, but they're
interviewing these Iraqi middle 

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class people that are dressed, 
like, you and me in these little

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suburban homes. 
And they're just saying how 

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they've lost their losing 
everything as a result of the US

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sanctions, you know, post Gulf 
War and just what we did to that

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country. 
And, you know, that was a major 

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major motivation motivation for 
bin Laden as he made very clear 

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as well as us support for 
Israel. 

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And And we just have to remember
that. 

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It wasn't just some freak 
attack. 

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And you also we have to keep in 
mind that there are still 

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unanswered questions about 9/11,
especially now we're recently, 

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more stuff came out about how 
Saudi Arabia gave material 

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support to the, to Al-Qaeda to 
the two hijackers that were in 

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the country. 
You know, when they came in, 

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they got help from the Saudi 
Embassy and stuff like that. 

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And we know that the CIA knew 
that these two guys were in the 

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country and they didn't tell the
FBI Yeah, I and, you know, I'm 

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not saying because there's so 
much misinformation that was put

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out and when it comes to 911 and
like the truth or movement, all 

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the stuff, all there is no 
planes, they're Holograms. 

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It's really been flooded with 
misinformation. 

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And I think, you know, that 
might have been a purposeful 

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strategy because people look at 
anybody who questions, the the 

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00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:25,300
official story, as one of those 
Kooks. 

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00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:29,600
But really, there are a lot of 
questions to be asked and I, 

228
00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:33,300
Especially just really it's 
either more. 

229
00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:36,500
So about the failure of the CIA 
and FBI, how they couldn't 

230
00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:38,400
prevent it. 
When all the pieces were there, 

231
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,400
yeah, well, no planes and 
Holograms are still more likely 

232
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,600
than they hate us for our 
freedoms yet. 

233
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,400
When it comes, when it comes to 
sanctions on Iraq, this is a 

234
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,900
very fast one. 
That the neocons will often play

235
00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:57,000
Giuliani touched on it when he 
was on stage with Lauren. 

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00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,100
Polly goes. 
I've never heard that before 

237
00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:01,000
nine. 
It happened because we went into

238
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,300
Iraq. 
Well, when into Iraq is what 

239
00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:07,600
people associate with something 
that happened a few years after 

240
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,000
9/11. 
So he's making it seem like Ron 

241
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,100
Paul's argument as 9/11 
happened. 

242
00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:15,500
Because years later, we went 
into Iraq, which is just totally

243
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:18,500
Bonkers. 
It is widely not known by the 

244
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:22,200
average person that there were 
sanctions, what our sanctions. 

245
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:26,500
And why were they imposed on a 
rack by the US and UN in the 

246
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:28,200
90s, walk us through that 
history. 

247
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,000
Well yes, so the You know, they 
were imposed on Iraq, you know, 

248
00:13:32,008 --> 00:13:37,700
the idea was to pressure them to
get rid of Saddam, and they who 

249
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:41,300
they accused of having weapons 
of mass destruction and 

250
00:13:41,300 --> 00:13:43,800
throughout the 90s. 
I mean, there, I believe two un 

251
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,400
officials who were, you know, 
stationed in Iraq who are in 

252
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,300
charge of that policy, that 
resigned and one of them, called

253
00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:55,600
the policy genocide, the 
sanctions campaign and it was 

254
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,100
also a bombing campaign. 
I mean, they bombed Iraq 

255
00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:02,000
throughout the IDs and this is 
things, you know, for me for my 

256
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,100
personal journey into becoming 
anti-war and doing what I do. 

257
00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:10,900
Like I had no idea about any 
that whole situation until I 

258
00:14:10,908 --> 00:14:14,700
was, you know, in my 20s. 
I didn't realize what the US did

259
00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:18,100
to Iraq. 
And, you know, especially they 

260
00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:21,300
target, you know, wastewater 
treatment plants and things like

261
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:22,600
that. 
They target the civilian 

262
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,900
infrastructure in these attacks,
which is a tactic that the u.s. 

263
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:28,100
uses in just about all of its 
Wars. 

264
00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:31,500
Going back to World War Two. 
R2 you know bombing civilian 

265
00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:33,800
infrastructure. 
They did it in Korea, Vietnam 

266
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:39,000
Cambodia, Laos Iraq, during the 
Gulf War and after, and it's 

267
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,800
just such a brutal policy. 
That yeah, like Giuliani just 

268
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,000
kind of inferring that we 
weren't doing anything to them. 

269
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:53,200
I think speaks to the the 
attitude that American us 

270
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,300
politicians have, it was kind of
this thing. 

271
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:58,200
You know, I was pretty young in 
the 90s, but just from, looking 

272
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,300
back at clips. 
And C-SPAN and stuff. 

273
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:03,600
You know, Ron Paul was really 
the only one saying, hey, we 

274
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,100
should probably not be bombing 
Iraq. 

275
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:08,900
This is gonna come back to bite 
us, but it seemed like it was 

276
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:10,900
just kind of in the background 
for most people. 

277
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:14,600
So we have the civilians and it 
also goes back to the first 

278
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,200
world war when Lord admiralty at
the time Winston Churchill 

279
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,600
blockaded German civilians from 
getting food because of the 

280
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,600
crimes of their governments. 
So the sanctions in Iraq and 

281
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,500
then, and that was being done 
for. 

282
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:34,100
From Saudi Arabia. 
Why were their bases in Saudi 

283
00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:37,100
Arabia? 
And if they were, and if the 

284
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:40,000
base is existed, doesn't that 
mean that the Saudi Arabian 

285
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,500
government wanted them there? 
Well, yeah, that's a good point 

286
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:45,700
because that was another one of 
Bin Laden's. 

287
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,100
One of the things he cited for 
the for why he turned, why the 

288
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:54,300
u.s. became his his Target, you 
know, after the Soviet Union 

289
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:59,800
collapsed and they built those 
bases to launch the war It's 

290
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,300
Iraq to launch a war on the 
Arabian Peninsula. 

291
00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:07,700
So that's why it was such a 
sensitive thing for not just Bin

292
00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:09,400
Laden. 
Not just extreme, you know, 

293
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,900
extremists like him but for 
Muslims in general, you know, 

294
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:15,400
it's their. 
Holy place in the u.s. it turned

295
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,800
into a hub of the US War Machine
and they were supposed to just 

296
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,600
be temporary basis but they 
stayed there throughout the 90s.

297
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,200
And again, it was one of the 
main factors into Al-Qaeda, 

298
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:33,500
starting to attack the US and 
Then support for Israel who were

299
00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:37,900
the first countries to recognize
Israel going back to May of 

300
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:41,300
1948. 
Well, yeah, that was I mean the 

301
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:45,400
the British and the, the us and 
it was the UN mandate that 

302
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,600
created Israel as a country and 
it they drove out the 

303
00:16:49,608 --> 00:16:53,400
Palestinians when it was first 
created about 750,000, people 

304
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,500
were driven from their, their 
homes and what they call the 

305
00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:59,200
nakba in Palestine the 
catastrophe. 

306
00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:04,200
And that thousands of others 
were also killed people that 

307
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,000
didn't leave and that was, you 
know, they created a country on 

308
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,599
top of Palestine which was a 
country and that's another thing

309
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,800
that just gets lost in. 
I think for me personally, 

310
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,000
another thing I just really had 
no knowledge of and that they 

311
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,200
don't teach in public schools in
the u.s. at least is how I just 

312
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,300
was under the impression that 
Israel was there forever. 

313
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:29,500
But it wasn't and it was created
by this man. 

314
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:34,100
And eight and you know there's 
just a long history of the 

315
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:37,400
crimes that have been committed 
against the Palestinians since 

316
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,300
then and just that was, of 
course, such a another big 

317
00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:46,000
factor in the war coming home. 
When it comes to Israel and 

318
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,100
Palestine today, what is the 
nature of the situation? 

319
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:52,200
Because you can say, well, a 
long time ago, the Palestinians 

320
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,800
did some bad things, the 
Israelis did and let's just call

321
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,000
it even. 
And today Israel is mainly the 

322
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,900
good guys because they're very 
westernized. 

323
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,400
Now a lot of them come over to 
America. 

324
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,800
They have their own 
organization, American Israeli 

325
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,600
political action committee 
Israel's very legitimate 

326
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,100
Palestinians are the The Savage 
people with rockets and who will

327
00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:17,900
use Omens as as a human Shields.
So when it comes to that 

328
00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:21,000
narrative, what are people 
missing about Israel, Palestine 

329
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,500
today? 
Well right now, you know you 

330
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:26,000
hear a lot about a two-state 
solution and kind of what's 

331
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,400
implied is that the Palestinians
don't want a two-state solution.

332
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:33,800
But that leaves out a huge part 
of the situation is that in the 

333
00:18:33,808 --> 00:18:37,100
West Bank, they're slowly. 
Israel is slowly expanding into 

334
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:39,700
the West Bank. 
Through settlements is already a

335
00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:44,100
lot of settlements that are, if 
you look at the map, You know, 

336
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:47,000
Trump, the Trump Administration 
put forward what I think he 

337
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,700
called the deal of the century 
or something. 

338
00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:53,100
This peace plan for a two-state 
solution, but it would have, you

339
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:56,300
know, the West Bank looked like 
swiss cheese like the territory 

340
00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:59,500
that Palestine would have gotten
because all these settlements 

341
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:01,800
would have become Israeli 
territory and there would be 

342
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,300
Israeli only access roads, 
really? 

343
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:08,200
It would have formalized 
apartheid rule because there 

344
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,400
would be all these roads and 
stuff that the Palestinians 

345
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,000
couldn't access which is already
the case. 

346
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,600
But but you know it just would 
have formalized everything like 

347
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,500
I said and it would have been a 
tunnel to the Gaza Strip and 

348
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,100
that's a big part of why there 
hasn't been a two-state solution

349
00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:26,100
or anything like that. 
And it's not really a feasible 

350
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,800
solution now because of the 
settlement expansion and its 

351
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,700
continued, they keep approving 
new settlements under Trump. 

352
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:36,200
They approved record amount and 
they're demolishing, Palestinian

353
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,900
homes demolishing villages to 
build these settlements. 

354
00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:43,400
And on top of that, you have 
Gaza, which is a small little 

355
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,400
Enclave of few million people 
that is under siege, it's been 

356
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,800
under blockade since 2000 and 
end of 2006 and to 2007. 

357
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:56,100
And when we see Israel launched 
a bombing campaign, you know, 

358
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:59,600
the narrative is that Israel is 
defending itself from terrorists

359
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,900
in Gaza, but the people of Gaza 
are under seizure. 

360
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:05,800
I mean, that's if you want to 
look at international law, I'm 

361
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,400
not trying to justify anything, 
you know, a country that's under

362
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,800
siege under blockade, has the 
right to defend itself. 

363
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,600
So, technically the people in 
God, Aza, do you have under 

364
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:17,900
international law? 
Have the right to defend 

365
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,300
themselves? 
And of course, the way they do 

366
00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:23,000
it is indiscriminate because 
they fired these Rockets, but 

367
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,100
there's just so crude compared 
to the weapons. 

368
00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:29,200
That Israel gets a lot of them 
from the US and this Iron Dome 

369
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,700
system. 
They have that shoots down all 

370
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:34,200
these rockets and then Israel 
bombs the hell out of Gaza every

371
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,200
once in awhile and always kills 
children. 

372
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,400
Because it's one of the most 
densely populated places on the 

373
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:43,400
planet and it's just a, it's a 
horror show over there. 

374
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:46,500
And Gaza and you know, you 
always hear these numbers about 

375
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,500
just how unsustainable that it 
is. 

376
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:51,400
How they don't have any clean 
drinking water and stuff like 

377
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,900
that. 
So the situation and the 

378
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:56,700
unemployment I remember I was 
always like pretty shocked by 

379
00:20:56,700 --> 00:21:00,300
the unemployment rate in Gaza. 
It's about 50% and for young 

380
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,400
people it gets up until like 
70%. 

381
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,800
I mean imagine being in your 
early 20s and living there, and 

382
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,600
you can't go anywhere. 
And there's no just no prospects

383
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,000
for anything. 
It's just such a bleak existence

384
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:15,400
for them. 
What do people need to know 

385
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,500
about the relations between us 
Taiwan and China? 

386
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:22,900
Well, this is a big one now, 
because things are starting to 

387
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:26,500
really heat up and just going 
back, the history of it, you 

388
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:32,500
know, the US backed Shanghai 
Shack, and his kuomintang it in 

389
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:36,400
the Chinese Civil War, which 
officially ended in 1949, when 

390
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,000
Mao, and the Communists won and 
Chiang Kai-shek fled to the 

391
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,700
island of Taiwan. 
And then in the 1950s, There 

392
00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:48,000
were some Chinese attempts at 
taking outer Islands, not the 

393
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,500
island of Taiwan. 
Exactly. 

394
00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:53,400
But Taiwan also controls some 
very small Islands on the 

395
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,400
mainland, they still do to this 
day and, you know, the u.s. 

396
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,200
intervened twice in the 1950s 
when Mao tried to take those 

397
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,700
territories and, you know, the 
US Navy, Eisenhower sent the 

398
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,400
Navy in. 
And at the time in both cases, 

399
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,300
the US military planners were 
pushing to Nuke China. 

400
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,700
Ah because they didn't have 
nuclear weapons at that point. 

401
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,700
So this is history and there's a
lot to it but really the current

402
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:24,100
situation as it stands today 
exists, really? 

403
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:27,200
Because of the US intervention 
in the Chinese Civil War. 

404
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:31,600
Now I don't think Mao had the 
capabilities to launch an 

405
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,600
invasion of the island of Taiwan
at the time. 

406
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,500
But the situation would have 
would be very different if not 

407
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:41,000
for the US intervention. 
And now so the US after Mal one,

408
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:44,900
the u.s. didn't recognize China,
they Is Taiwan the Republic of 

409
00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:48,400
China as China and they had a 
seat at the UN and everything 

410
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,100
and then that changed in the 
1970s. 

411
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:53,900
When Nixon went over there, he 
shook hands with Mal and then 

412
00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:59,700
that led towards normalization 
which was formalized in 1979 in 

413
00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:02,000
79. 
The u.s. severed diplomatic ties

414
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,600
with type A which is Taiwan and 
opened up with Beijing. 

415
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,900
And since then the US has 
pursued with day call this 

416
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:15,100
strategic ambiguity policy and 
really The one China policy that

417
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:17,900
the u.s. follows is that they 
don't have formal relations with

418
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:22,100
Taiwan, but they do sell them 
some weapons that have good 

419
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:24,900
relations with Beijing until 
recently. 

420
00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:28,600
But for the over the decades, 
big trade relations, and really 

421
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,600
help build China up. 
And but now, that's that's all 

422
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,400
changing. 
And that has changed 

423
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,800
significantly in the past few 
years and it really started 

424
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,900
under Trump because part of this
policy is that, you know, the US

425
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:45,000
doesn't send officials, Taiwan, 
they don't have a fit an 

426
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,000
embassy. 
They don't have official 

427
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,700
relations. 
And we saw under Trump, he 

428
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:50,800
started sending cabinet 
officials there. 

429
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,200
He sent his health secretary 
there, which might seem kind of 

430
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,800
like it's insignificant, but it 
was the highest level Us 

431
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,400
official cabinet, official to 
visit Taiwan since 79 in decades

432
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,300
and decades, and that really 
started escalating tensions 

433
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:08,700
around the island. 
So more Chinese flights. 

434
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:12,100
In the region, few years later 
that stuff has kind of continued

435
00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:15,500
more Congressional Oceans. 
And now we just saw Nancy Pelosi

436
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:19,000
going early August. 
She visited Taiwan and she's 

437
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,700
that speaker of the house. 
So for China's from their 

438
00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:25,400
perspective, she's the third 
highest official in the US 

439
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,800
government and its a big signal 
of the u.s. moving away from the

440
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,200
one China policy which, so, 
China's stance is that they want

441
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,200
reunification, what they call 
reunification with Taiwan. 

442
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,800
And they want it to be peaceful.
That's what they say. 

443
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,300
But they oh they don't rule out 
using military force in the 

444
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:48,100
thing that they say will make 
them use military. 

445
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:52,100
Force is foreign support for 
what they call taiwan's, 

446
00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:55,000
Independence forces. 
And we've seen explicit warnings

447
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000
from Chinese officials over the 
past year as the US has been 

448
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,800
increasing support for Taiwan 
they say u.s. if you support 

449
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,700
Taiwan Independence, It's going 
to lead to war between the US 

450
00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:11,100
and China and it's a confusing 
thing because Taiwan even right 

451
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,800
now with the ruling Democratic 
Progressive Party, if that the 

452
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,500
DPP sighing, when is the 
president and their independence

453
00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:22,700
leaning, but they have not 
formally declared independence. 

454
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,100
Technically Taiwan, they act as 
an independent nation and they 

455
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:30,100
are, you know, in everything 
that they do, but they still are

456
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:33,500
technically part of China and 
haven't declared independence. 

457
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:36,700
But if they do declare 
independence, China says that 

458
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:41,300
that's when they'll move and the
US support in that direction 

459
00:25:41,300 --> 00:25:45,500
could also lead them to 
attacking Taiwan because they an

460
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:49,300
invasion of Taiwan would be the 
biggest and fibia sin Vision in 

461
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:53,200
history of war and it would, you
know, China doesn't want to do 

462
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,800
it. 
It would be very costly for them

463
00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:59,300
but again the thing that will 
make it more likely is the u.s. 

464
00:25:59,300 --> 00:26:02,700
support for Taiwan and we just 
saw the Senate Foreign Relations

465
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:04,500
Committee. 
Just is this bill that would 

466
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:08,600
give Taiwan 6.5 billion in 
military aid, which is huge. 

467
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,900
They've, they've never given 
Taiwan anything like that. 

468
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:15,200
And it would, there is also 
other things in the bill, that 

469
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,300
would really change the 
relationship and China after 

470
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:22,400
Pelosi visited China launched 
its largest ever military 

471
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,800
exercises around the island, 
ever simulated a blockade, and 

472
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,000
they've been keeping up the 
pressure. 

473
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,000
They're flying planes across the
Taiwan Strait just about every 

474
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,300
day now, and this is big changes
that Happening. 

475
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:39,300
And it's funny because they 
usually kind of overplay China's

476
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,100
military drills around Taiwan 
that the Western media but after

477
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:46,600
Pelosi's visit because it was so
obviously like a u.s. 

478
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,500
provocation that they're 
responding to it hasn't been 

479
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:51,300
kind of covered in the proper 
light. 

480
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:54,400
I don't think, I mean this is a 
huge deal and the road we're 

481
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,300
going down is very similar to 
what happened with Ukraine and 

482
00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:01,400
NATO expansion. 
Of course, they can't stop 

483
00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:06,600
murders in Chicago, Murder rates
a skyrocketing in major cities 

484
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:11,000
but they're really going to 
protect Taiwan speaking of 

485
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:14,300
protecting everywhere. 
Except the places, they've taken

486
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:17,000
an oath to protect the donbas 
region. 

487
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:19,200
What do people need to know 
about nato-ukraine? 

488
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,900
The donbas and Russia. 
Yeah. 

489
00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:27,000
I mean really you know, just to 
go back again in modern history,

490
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,500
people just need to know what 
happened in Ukraine in 2014 

491
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:34,700
which was the u.s. supported the
ousting of Viktor Yanukovych 

492
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:38,800
Ukrainian president and there 
was the euromaidan protests that

493
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,100
were sparked by Yanukovych kind 
of scrapping. 

494
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,900
His this plan to sign a trade 
deal with the EU and they 

495
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:49,200
started these protests. 
And you know since Russia 

496
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,300
invaded on February 24th, we've 
been getting a lot. 

497
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:56,100
Push back to characterize that 
2014 incident as a coup. 

498
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:59,700
But you know if you look at the 
definition of a coup it's a 

499
00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:05,200
sudden violent change of power. 
And what happened in Ukraine was

500
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,700
that there is these protests for
months. 

501
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,500
And while this was happening, I 
mean, John McCain was there 

502
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:14,000
speaking to the protesters, 
Chris Murphy, all these American

503
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,600
officials Victoria nuland who is
in Obama state department at the

504
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,100
time she played Lindsey Graham, 
Amy Klobuchar? 

505
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,200
Yeah, yeah. 
All these people were going over

506
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,500
there and then there was a deal,
worked out between the 

507
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:30,300
opposition and the Yanukovych. 
That was brokered by the EU. 

508
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:33,700
But then the more far right what
they consider far, right, and 

509
00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:38,600
Ukraine parties didn't accept it
and they called for him to step 

510
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,300
down immediately and they storm 
government buildings and then he

511
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:45,600
fled Russia. 
So just that's what happened and

512
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,200
it was supported by the US and 
of course is there's the leaked 

513
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,600
phone. 
Call a lot of your listeners 

514
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,600
probably know this stuff about 
the Ukraine coup. 

515
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,400
I'm sure. 
Between Victoria nuland and 

516
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,600
Geoffrey piatt, who was the u.s.
ambassador to Ukraine at the 

517
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,700
time, right? 
Before the change, basically 

518
00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:04,200
saying who should be in the next
Ukrainian government and then 

519
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,100
look who is, you know, those 
people made up the next 

520
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:11,300
government. 
So this sparked the war in the 

521
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:14,600
donbas because the people that 
lived in the donbas and other 

522
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,900
places in Ukraine rejected, the 
post coup government and 

523
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:22,300
including in Crimea and Russia 
annexed Crimea. 

524
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,300
And there was a referendum. 
It was it something like 97%, 

525
00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:29,600
they say of people in Crimea 
voted to join Russia. 

526
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,300
So people always say it was a 
sham referendum. 

527
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:35,700
But if you look at polling 
before that happened I mean 

528
00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:40,800
years going back years since 
before it happened. 

529
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,100
And after happened that people 
in Crimea, overwhelmingly wanted

530
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:46,600
to join Russia and are happy 
that they did. 

531
00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:50,800
And what really demonstrates 
that is that Russia took Crimea 

532
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,700
without firing a shot. 
I think there's like a few 

533
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:56,700
people died but it was like an 
if you look at the Wikipedia 

534
00:29:56,700 --> 00:30:00,100
article but it was like it was 
like an accident or something. 

535
00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:06,300
But so that's lost in the 
narrative since Russia invaded 

536
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:11,000
and also the war in the donbas, 
there's 20 blast in that region 

537
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,600
two provinces that Donetsk and 
luhansk oblasts and they 

538
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,400
declared independence from Kiev 
after the coup. 

539
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:21,500
They wanted to secede and that 
sparked a war Ukraine didn't 

540
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:24,100
want them to go. 
Oh, and there is a brutal war. 

541
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:27,600
In the donbas for years, it was 
at a stalemate, most of the time

542
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,100
leading up to the invasion but 
about 14,000 people died, a lot 

543
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:36,700
of civilians and that, you know,
so this is a war on Russia's 

544
00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:39,400
border and we've seen learned 
from recent reporting that the 

545
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,900
u.s. deployed CIA operatives to 
the front lines of the donbas 

546
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:45,600
war to train them. 
And NATO was in the country 

547
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,000
training troops and there's huge
NATO military exercises in 

548
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,700
Ukraine. 
So, Yeah, people just need to 

549
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:58,800
know how involved the US was in 
all of this and not just the 

550
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,000
coup, not just the war, just all
the whole situation. 

551
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,500
So, with this have been with 
poroshenko's government, or with

552
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:10,600
the sobota party, like are they 
directly involved with the major

553
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,000
government or they sort of 
working behind the scenes? 

554
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:16,700
You mean, the more like 
right-wing like sobota and 

555
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,700
stuff? 
Like how influential are they 

556
00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:24,300
you mean is the US government. 
Explicitly working with the 

557
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:28,100
government or is it like these 
ngos like the guy in Belarus is 

558
00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:31,700
saying that America doesn't come
in and say we the CIA want this 

559
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:34,200
new thing. 
What their current scam is I 

560
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,100
think his name is Luca Shango. 
What the what they do is they 

561
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:44,400
use ngos as sort of proxies to 
sort of get the regime change 

562
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,000
operation set in motion is that 
what's happening or is it direct

563
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,900
support poroshenko's on the 
phone with Obama. 

564
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,800
Here's Going down or John 
Brennan. 

565
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:58,100
Well, at that point it was a 
little bit of both because, you 

566
00:31:58,100 --> 00:32:01,700
know, in the events leading up 
to the coup is definitely the 

567
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:04,600
ngos played a major role and you
see them all over the world. 

568
00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:08,100
I mean, and if you can go to the
any the National Endowment for 

569
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:10,500
democracy, which is one of the 
big ones you could go to their 

570
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:14,400
website and type in a country 
and it shows the all these 

571
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,600
programs that they're funding. 
And one example I always think 

572
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,900
of because I was writing about 
Bolivia and that they were 

573
00:32:21,100 --> 00:32:24,300
directly funding. 
You know, these like this 

574
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:28,100
opposition to the president that
this this group that wanted to 

575
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:32,700
secede and declare independence 
from Morales and, you know, so 

576
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:36,300
that is the any day is funded by
the US government. 

577
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:39,800
So it's it is have the u.s. does
it these days? 

578
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:42,800
You know, they famously said, 
when the NAD started, I forget, 

579
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,900
what official was it was a CIA 
official who said that the any 

580
00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:50,400
day is going to do, you know, 
openly what we did covertly, you

581
00:32:50,408 --> 00:32:54,900
know, for the past few decades. 
But in Ukraine now, I mean all 

582
00:32:54,900 --> 00:33:00,500
those ngos were involved and but
it was also direct involvement 

583
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:04,100
especially, you know, after the 
coup I mean it was the u.s. 

584
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,800
training Ukraine for this war 
and NATO training them that they

585
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,600
never join NATO but sort of 
became a de facto NATO member in

586
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,800
a way because of all this 
support and Joint drills and 

587
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,900
stuff. 
So yeah, it became more openly. 

588
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:24,300
More open, the u.s. involvement 
in Ukraine. 

589
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:28,900
After the coup. 
So if you were advising Bill 

590
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:33,500
Clinton in 1999, when Putin 
asked Clinton, if Russia could 

591
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:36,400
join NATO, what would you have 
told Clinton to do? 

592
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,200
I mean, if NATO was still going 
to be around and, you know, I 

593
00:33:41,208 --> 00:33:45,100
would have told him to abolish 
NATO, but if it was still going 

594
00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:47,800
to exist, I would have said, you
know you could let him join. 

595
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,300
I mean that was the idea was to 
get to let Russia become, you 

596
00:33:52,308 --> 00:33:56,900
know, a part of Europe as they 
say and and Ukraine and this You

597
00:33:56,900 --> 00:34:00,000
know, a realist point of view 
that, you know, people that 

598
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,800
believe in the, you know, the 
state department and the 

599
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,500
American Empire and stuff. 
Henry Kissinger has said this, 

600
00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:09,800
that he said this at the time, 
that Ukraine should serve as a 

601
00:34:09,808 --> 00:34:14,199
bridge between Europe and Russia
and that it shouldn't be used as

602
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:18,199
a wedge against Russia, and 
that's what it became and that's

603
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:23,199
and William Burns, who's the 
current head of the CIA in 2008.

604
00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:28,400
When Ukraine was promised that 
it would eventually become a 

605
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:33,900
NATO member, he warned in a memo
that was released by Wikileaks, 

606
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,100
basically, what would happen. 
They said this, this would 

607
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:40,400
probably spark a civil war in 
Ukraine and Russia would 

608
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,000
intervene and that's what 
happened. 

609
00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:45,800
And that's another point. 
I mean, with the donbas war and 

610
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,199
the view from Russia because 
people should know what the 

611
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,000
Russian, you know, nationalists 
and supporters of the war thing,

612
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,500
you know, to them, this is 
Putin. 

613
00:34:53,699 --> 00:34:58,800
Is Russia, finishing that war in
the donbas, and it's a war 

614
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,900
against the US and NATO. 
And that's how they view it. 

615
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,700
And just need to understand how 
dangerous it is to and just 

616
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:12,200
where we are now. 
It's really amazing to me that 

617
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,500
it got escalated this far, I 
didn't think we would be at this

618
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:21,000
point in 2022. 
Funneling all this money into a 

619
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,300
war against Russia. 
When it comes to us relations 

620
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:27,700
with Iran, what do people need 
to know? 

621
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,800
Well right now, I mean things 
are really not looking good with

622
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:38,000
with the ran and what people 
need to know now is that the 

623
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,700
nuclear deal that the Trump 
Administration withdrew from and

624
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:44,400
they impose all these sanctions 
back on Iran. 

625
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,100
That was really a policy driven 
by Israel. 

626
00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:51,800
Now, of course, the Republicans 
are right Wingers, they were 

627
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,100
against the Iran deal and stuff,
but the real opponent of it. 

628
00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:58,700
And the one that just looks 
like, they just sabotaged a 

629
00:35:58,707 --> 00:36:01,600
return to this deal because it 
looked like for a minute there 

630
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,900
that the bottom ministration 
might have signed a deal with 

631
00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:07,100
Iran. 
Israel is really pushing against

632
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:10,800
this they want to keep up. 
This kind of cold war with Iran 

633
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,500
that they have, which involves 
covert attacks inside Iran, 

634
00:36:13,500 --> 00:36:15,300
against Iran's nuclear. 
Program. 

635
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,500
There's really no reason for the
u.s. to for Iran to be an enemy 

636
00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:22,400
at this point. 
I mean it goes back to the coup 

637
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,800
in the 1953 coup that the CIA 
backed and the Islamic 

638
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,900
revolution was a response to 
that and that's why the hostage 

639
00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:33,800
crisis happened. 
Because the coup in the 50s was 

640
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,000
orchestrated from the US 
Embassy. 

641
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,600
That's why they stormed the 
embassy. 

642
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,800
So that's important context. 
But really since then, you know,

643
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:46,000
since the 80s and the bombing in
Lebanon that The Marines, you 

644
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,400
know, Iran could be tied to that
since then. 

645
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,500
They haven't really done 
anything major against the US, 

646
00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:56,600
and as Scott, Horton has put it.
And I think he put it very well 

647
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,300
that the worst thing that Iran 
did in Iraq was take advantage 

648
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:05,300
of the US invasion. 
You know, really how much that 

649
00:37:05,300 --> 00:37:10,300
Invasion benefited or ran and 
gave their friends power just 

650
00:37:10,300 --> 00:37:12,500
shows the shortsightedness and 
you were talking earlier about 

651
00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:14,700
how politicians for just predict
the wrong. 

652
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,200
The thing with Iraq I mean we 
how much that Invasion helped 

653
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,700
the rent but right now all the 
scare mongering about their 

654
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:24,900
nuclear program is just totally 
ridiculous that there's no 

655
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:27,500
indication right now that 
they'll that they're going to 

656
00:37:27,500 --> 00:37:30,200
build a bomb. 
And I would say if I thought 

657
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,000
there was but right now I don't 
think that there is they've 

658
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,300
explicitly forbidden it by their
religion. 

659
00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:41,900
But, you know, it's a fatwa, 
which is a religious edict, they

660
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:43,800
cannot make weapons of mass 
destruction. 

661
00:37:44,900 --> 00:37:52,900
And what What's Happening Here 
is that is really something that

662
00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:55,600
people need to understand is 
that Israel has a secret nuclear

663
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,500
weapons program. 
They have nuclear weapons, they 

664
00:37:57,500 --> 00:37:59,100
have a few hundred nuclear 
warheads. 

665
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:01,900
Because another big part of the 
narrative is that if Iran gets a

666
00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:05,300
bomb, it's going to start an 
arms race in the region as well.

667
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,400
Israel already has has nukes and
Iran, doesn't, and that because 

668
00:38:10,900 --> 00:38:13,800
once you understand that, then 
you kind of start questioning 

669
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,700
this whole entire Fire Narrative
of. 

670
00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:18,600
Wait, why is Israel? 
So concerned about Iran getting 

671
00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:20,900
nukes? 
And why do I always hear about 

672
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:22,900
that when Israel has these 
nukes? 

673
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:25,600
And we don't even know about it.
And Israel's always constantly 

674
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,100
attacking Iran. 
I mean, assassinating people 

675
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:29,900
inside Iran. 
It just happened. 

676
00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:33,700
This past may, they gunned down 
in irgc colonel in the capital 

677
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:38,300
and and Donald Trump 
assassinated soleimani. 

678
00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:42,900
Yeah, and that was for Israel. 
I mean that that there is no 

679
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,700
National interest in killing. 
Although many, I mean, it's 

680
00:38:45,700 --> 00:38:49,700
absolutely ridiculous. 
So, when it comes to, the day of

681
00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:56,200
9/11, Donald Rumsfeld, talking 
about potentially in his memos, 

682
00:38:56,500 --> 00:39:00,100
saying we could use this to not 
just go after Bin Laden, but 

683
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:05,700
also after Saddam it seems like 
anytime Israel has a big rival 

684
00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:08,500
in the region Saddam in the 
early 2000s. 

685
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,400
Iran today we haven't gotten a 
lot of the u.s. going after 

686
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,900
Hezbollah in Lebanon or anything
but any time there's this big 

687
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:22,300
major rival in the region that 
the Israeli regime sort of uses 

688
00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:25,000
the American regime in the 
American regime is happy to go 

689
00:39:25,008 --> 00:39:29,000
along because of whether it's 
Halliburton connections or just 

690
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,400
increasing their social status 
or just having an enemy to 

691
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,100
fight. 
You almost have this symbiotic 

692
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:39,300
relationship between these evil 
ruling classes that are able to 

693
00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:41,300
operate at the expense of 
everyone else. 

694
00:39:41,300 --> 00:39:44,300
Is that really what's happening?
This smaller country? 

695
00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:47,900
Pulling in this bigger country 
using its leverage. 

696
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:50,900
Yeah, to an extent. 
I think so. 

697
00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:53,500
And it is also about control and
power. 

698
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:57,700
I mean the US wants to dominate 
the region and control the oil 

699
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:00,300
resources more. 
So, I mean, if you look back at 

700
00:40:00,308 --> 00:40:04,500
what the neocon set of the 1990s
and Dick Cheney said this that 

701
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:08,800
because now the the us could be 
totally relying on itself for 

702
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,100
oil, that it's more about 
keeping the resource out of 

703
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:15,400
China's hands. 
Is that the Troll that they want

704
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:20,500
over the Middle East or another,
you know, adversary let's say so

705
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:25,200
there's definitely aspect of 
power about it but and right if 

706
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,600
you look at what's happening 
right now, you know, the US has 

707
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,500
scaled back a lot from the 
Middle East and that's not to 

708
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:33,900
downplay the wars that are still
going on the war in Yemen. 

709
00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:38,600
The u.s. is still in Syria and 
Iraq and Biden was just bombing 

710
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,400
Syria. 
Just launched, just a little 

711
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,400
escalation in Syria. 
We're lucky. 

712
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,600
That didn't spiral bigger, but 
It and in Syria, who was that, 

713
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,400
would that be against Islamic 
State? 

714
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,000
Fighters or Bashar al-assad's 
regime? 

715
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:56,100
The latest airstrikes, they were
against what the u.s. called 

716
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:58,800
iran-backed Fighters. 
So, there are Shia militias 

717
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,600
inside Syria that actually 
helped the u.s. they were they 

718
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,900
were on the same side in the 
fight against Isis. 

719
00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:07,900
So when the war against Isis was
really over when they were 

720
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:12,400
obliterated by Trump, they kind 
of turned around and started 

721
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:17,200
waging this. 
Low intensity war against these 

722
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,400
Shia militias. 
And that's what led to sold, 

723
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,900
mainly being killed the series 
of events was really sparked by 

724
00:41:21,900 --> 00:41:27,000
that, but Biden, said that 
because there's rocket attacks 

725
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,700
on us bases in Syria and Iraq. 
Once in awhile, and they always 

726
00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:34,300
say, oh, it's a Rants friends 
and we have to bomb them and I 

727
00:41:34,308 --> 00:41:37,000
know one target was this, I 
forget the name but it says she 

728
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,100
and militia actually Afghan. 
So, they're Afghans that have 

729
00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:44,900
traveled there to help fight 
Isis and stuff and all Is 

730
00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:48,000
groups, some of them receive 
support from Iran, but in 

731
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,500
factories by group and they 
Clash sometimes, and they don't 

732
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:54,700
always get along, they butt 
heads with the ransom times, 

733
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,400
really? 
What's interesting? 

734
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,600
Is that Iran was trying to get 
these she a militias in Iraq, to

735
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,700
stop attacking the u.s. to stop 
launching rocket attacks in the 

736
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:04,600
u.s. because they wanted to cool
tensions. 

737
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,400
But they didn't want to listen 
to a rant. 

738
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,200
So but those were the latest 
strikes and it seemed like what 

739
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,900
Biden did there. 
I mean, I don't see any other 

740
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:17,400
reason for For those strikes if 
it wasn't because it was when 

741
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:20,300
negotiations with the u.s. and 
Iran, it seemed like a deal was 

742
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:23,000
going to be signed and then 
Biden launched these airstrikes.

743
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,300
So it seemed like it might have 
been some sort of message to 

744
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:29,700
Iran or just a way to kind of 
escalate tensions and kind of 

745
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:32,000
killed the deal because he 
doesn't really want to return to

746
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,100
it. 
But just to completely useless 

747
00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:37,500
escalation, if you really just 
look at the facts because they 

748
00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:39,800
said it was for some rocket 
attack a few weeks earlier. 

749
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,500
But nobody was injured or killed
in it, it was very minor and he 

750
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:45,900
went and killed a few. 
People. 

751
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,800
So, that's what is going on in 
Syria. 

752
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,200
I mean, Syria is another. 
It's a big messy situation that 

753
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:56,000
the u.s. is involved in if you 
want to talk about that. 

754
00:42:56,700 --> 00:43:02,000
Well, this is another example of
blowback Omar, Martin went to a 

755
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:06,500
nightclub in Orlando, and 
murdered more or less 50 people 

756
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:11,100
got on the phone with the 911. 
Operator and said five times 

757
00:43:11,100 --> 00:43:14,600
explicitly, the US and Russia 
are murdering civilians. 

758
00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:18,600
Ian's in Syria and Iraq. 
This has to stop the bombing 

759
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,800
needs to stop the air, strikes 
are killing women. 

760
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,600
They're killing children. 
This is horrible, and but both 

761
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,800
Trump and Obama and Obama get 
out and just lie about it. 

762
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,100
So, even these awards that we 
don't hear about, we still have 

763
00:43:33,100 --> 00:43:37,700
to pay the price for the crimes 
of the American ruling class. 

764
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,000
So, Syria War, not that popular,
people are not that passionate 

765
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,600
about the holy war in. 
My generation was the invasion 

766
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,000
of Afghanistan. 
What do people before getting 

767
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,500
into the Afghan sanctions of 
recent, first talk us that. 

768
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:58,000
Tell us what we need to know 
about the initial Invasion and 

769
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,800
Afghan war. 
Yeah, well, this was another 

770
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,500
thing. 
You know, just growing up, even 

771
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:07,000
when I started becoming like 
more anti-war. 

772
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,900
I always thought, oh, well 
Afghanistan was like the 

773
00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:13,000
necessary War because they did 
9/11 and we had to go over 

774
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,900
there. 
And, you know, No. 

775
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,600
But really what? 
I mean, what Scott lays out in 

776
00:44:19,607 --> 00:44:22,800
his book Fool's errand in the 
beginning is that he makes a 

777
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,400
strong circumstantial case that 
when the u.s. first invaded 

778
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,400
Afghanistan that they let Bin 
Laden go at Tora Bora and 

779
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,500
there's not if you that's the 
best case that I've seen for 

780
00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:39,300
that theory and it's a pretty 
strong one and now another thing

781
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,800
I remember listening to somebody
on a podcast say this is years 

782
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,300
ago again. 
Growing up as a post-911, 

783
00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:50,500
teenager and thinking the Afghan
war was necessary. 

784
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,200
I remember hearing somebody say,
oh, the Taliban when they were, 

785
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,100
they would have, they were 
willing to hand over Bin Laden 

786
00:44:57,500 --> 00:44:59,300
and I was like, what? 
That's not true. 

787
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:01,900
And I went on Google and I just 
searched Taliban says, they'll 

788
00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:05,400
hand over Bin Laden and just 
article after article at from 

789
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,000
2001, from September 2001 from 
October 2001, that the Taliban 

790
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,200
said first, you know, oh well if
you show us evidence will hand 

791
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,200
them to a third country Tree to 
stand trial or a first. 

792
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,700
It was will put him on trial and
then we'll hand him to a third 

793
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:21,400
country. 
And and then it just kind of 

794
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,600
came back to me that we, you 
know, we won't negotiate with 

795
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,600
terrorists. 
There will be no negotiations. 

796
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,800
And it's like, oh that's what 
that was all about. 

797
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:33,400
And then into think it was in 
2002 there was that clip of bush

798
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,700
a reporter asked him. 
So what are we going to get Bin 

799
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:37,300
Laden? 
Like what's next? 

800
00:45:37,300 --> 00:45:39,600
And he's like oh well it's not 
really about Bin Laden, you 

801
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,100
know, it's about it's bigger 
than him and just looking back 

802
00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:44,500
on that stuff. 
It's like wow, you see? 

803
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:47,800
Out. 
It was how they just use 911 as 

804
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,900
an excuse to launch. 
This huge war in Afghanistan 

805
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:53,200
against the Taliban and became 
regime change. 

806
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,600
There was even a deal with the 
Taliban in December. 

807
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,200
That would have pretty much 
disbanded that rule, but 

808
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,600
Rumsfeld rejected that, and that
was in December 2001. 

809
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,100
There's a New York Times article
about it, looking back on this 

810
00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:10,600
stuff. 
As I as I was, was just so 

811
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,200
pivotal for me, like really 
understanding that it does, 

812
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,100
Afghan war was totally 
unnecessary and of course, 

813
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,200
staying there and 
nation-building. 

814
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,900
You know, it's easy to say that 
that was a waste and unnecessary

815
00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:26,100
just to have a look, how quickly
the government collapsed. 

816
00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:29,100
But the initial, the whole 
entire thing didn't have to 

817
00:46:29,107 --> 00:46:32,600
happen, there could have been a,
you know, post 9/11 could have 

818
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,600
negotiated with the Taliban to 
get Bin Laden, or could have 

819
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,100
been a quick raid to kill him. 
I mean, even if he got away, 

820
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:44,500
they destroyed at what was what 
Al Qaeda was very quickly. 

821
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:46,200
And they could have left after 
that. 

822
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:49,000
But now they stayed in the had 
to turn it into this nation 

823
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,900
building exercise in spent 
trillions of dollars. 

824
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,200
Exactly, there are real. 
It's amazing these sources that 

825
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,500
Scott uses in Fool's errand. 
White House says no to Taliban 

826
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:04,600
demand for proof. 
September 21st 2001, CBC News 

827
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,300
u.s. refusal of 2001, Taliban 
offer, gave Bin Laden a free 

828
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:13,100
past intern, press ABC News, 
October 14th us for Jack's new 

829
00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:16,400
Taliban offer. 
I mean it is just unbelievable 

830
00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:20,000
how that was hidden from us. 
George Bush, wrote a book, 

831
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:26,000
allegedly called the points and 
he goes, we had little faith. 

832
00:47:26,300 --> 00:47:31,200
That the Taliban would hand him 
over after we demanded that they

833
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,400
hand him over, but we needed 
that to increase the likelihood.

834
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,400
That we'd be able to get the 
International Community to 

835
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,700
support us in going to 
Afghanistan. 

836
00:47:40,700 --> 00:47:43,700
I don't have the direct quote, 
it's in a chapter titled 

837
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,100
Afghanistan. 
And he doesn't say we asked for 

838
00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:50,300
them to hand them over and they 
offered but we couldn't do it 

839
00:47:50,300 --> 00:47:53,600
because of the he doesn't even 
say that they took him up on the

840
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,500
offer and this whole thing could
have been avoided. 

841
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:58,800
They're constantly in search for
enemies. 

842
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,900
So we then replace the Taliban 
with the Taliban. 

843
00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:06,100
Now there are Afghan sanctions 
what talk us. 

844
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,300
Talk to us about the nature of 
the sanctions that the u.s. 

845
00:48:10,300 --> 00:48:14,100
regime put on Afghanistan since 
2021. 

846
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,400
Yes. 
So there's really two things to 

847
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,000
discuss here and the first is 
the Afghan Central Bank assets. 

848
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,900
So the u.s. froze 7 billion in 
Afghan Central Bank Reserves 

849
00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:30,900
that were held in the US and 
other countries, they froze, 

850
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:35,100
another few billion. 
And so what happened there was 

851
00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:38,500
that you know, the u.s. built up
this government and with it was 

852
00:48:38,500 --> 00:48:42,300
an infrastructure in Kabul 
mostly, but in elsewhere and 

853
00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:45,200
government workers, and they 
provided services, And 

854
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,700
Afghanistan because of the war. 
And because of other reasons, 

855
00:48:48,700 --> 00:48:52,100
it's very poor country, and 
people were really dire need for

856
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:56,000
help. 
And by seizing this money, they 

857
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,700
really kind of pulled that 
infrastructure out from under 

858
00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:02,200
them and you know there's an 
argument I guess that I've heard

859
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,100
you know, Rand Paul make that. 
Oh well it was our money to 

860
00:49:05,100 --> 00:49:07,800
begin with so we should just 
keep it from them. 

861
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,900
But when you look at the 
situation in Afghanistan, I mean

862
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:16,200
I think you know trying to just 
take this This thing that we set

863
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,400
up from them, you know, it's, it
would the right thing to do 

864
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,100
would be to just release the 
funds. 

865
00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:25,600
And, you know, the Taliban is 
the government now, which is why

866
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,100
the US big part of the reason 
why they don't want to do it. 

867
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,300
But it's just a, really being 
sore losers here. 

868
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:33,700
I mean, they left billions of 
dollars in military equipment 

869
00:49:33,700 --> 00:49:36,000
behind. 
They can't just let them have. 

870
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,800
What is rightfully, 
Afghanistan's, you know, money. 

871
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:45,300
And also the sanctions on the 
Taliban So the Taliban are all 

872
00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:48,800
under sanctions, the group, all 
their leadership us and un 

873
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,200
sanctions. 
And so now the Taliban is the 

874
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,500
government in Afghanistan. 
So that means that the country 

875
00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:58,700
is under sanctions about as 
intense as they could be 

876
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:02,900
sanctions like that are on Iran,
Venezuela and places like that. 

877
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:08,100
So that discourages discourages 
Banks International Banks and 

878
00:50:08,100 --> 00:50:10,700
companies from doing any 
business with Afghanistan. 

879
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,200
So us sanctions technically have
exemptions as for, you know, 

880
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,600
humanitarian goods and Aid and 
medicine and things like that, 

881
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,900
but history has shown us. 
And there was just a un report 

882
00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:25,200
about this in Iran. 
How those exemptions don't 

883
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,700
really do anything because the 
US has the issue like a special 

884
00:50:28,700 --> 00:50:30,900
license. 
So, if you're a company, you 

885
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:33,800
just not going to bother doing 
business with these countries 

886
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,100
that are under these heavy 
sanctions because it's too much 

887
00:50:36,100 --> 00:50:38,700
of a headache, you have to worry
about violating sanctions. 

888
00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:41,100
And if you want to do it, you 
have to get this special license

889
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:46,100
from the US. 
So Is f gansan is facing this 

890
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:48,400
really bad food crisis food, 
shortages everywhere. 

891
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,500
Millions of people facing 
starvation and these sanctions 

892
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:54,100
are making the delivery of Aid 
harder. 

893
00:50:54,100 --> 00:50:58,800
The UN says, and it's just 
really it's turned into an 

894
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,700
economic war against the people 
of Afghanistan. 

895
00:51:00,700 --> 00:51:08,100
Now, when it comes to Al Qaeda 
in other countries mostly in 

896
00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:13,700
Yemen, Obama gets in in 2009. 
And he says that there was a 

897
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,100
justification to increase air 
strikes on aqap, Al Qaeda in the

898
00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:21,800
Arabian Peninsula because the 
majority of people in Guantanamo

899
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,700
Bay were from Yemen. 
So we got a fight Al-Qaeda, not 

900
00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:28,900
just in one place. 
They are in a number of 

901
00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:31,500
countries. 
So now from like the USS Cole 

902
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:35,700
bombing in 2000, you know, bush 
is working with President, Saleh

903
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:41,600
Obama increases strikes against 
aqap, something happens in 2015,

904
00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:47,100
where the u.s. no longer is. 
Going to war against aqap in 

905
00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:48,900
Yemen. 
Walk us through what happened 

906
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:52,700
there. 
Well yes, that was in 2015 was 

907
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:58,100
the year that the US backed the 
saudi-led Coalition. 

908
00:51:59,100 --> 00:52:01,100
You know it's called the 
saudi-led Coalition but it's 

909
00:52:01,100 --> 00:52:04,500
really they wouldn't really be 
able to do this war without the 

910
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:06,300
US. 
They need support from the US 

911
00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:10,100
but it's a coalition of the gulf
countries Saudi Arabia and the 

912
00:52:10,100 --> 00:52:14,500
UAE or the most involved but 
also you know Bahrain and And 

913
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:19,000
even Jordan is involved in 
stuff, but that was after the 

914
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,200
houthis took power in North 
Yemen and they drove out the, 

915
00:52:23,500 --> 00:52:28,200
the saudi-backed government, the
US backed government and haughty

916
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,400
the president, he fled to Saudi 
Arabia. 

917
00:52:30,700 --> 00:52:33,700
And so the US backed this war 
against the houthis. 

918
00:52:33,700 --> 00:52:36,900
But what's interesting about the
houthis is that they are an 

919
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:40,400
enemy of al-Qaeda. 
And just a few months before in 

920
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,000
March, 2015, was when the Obama 
Administration And announced 

921
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,600
that they were going to back 
this war and it's in the Saudis 

922
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:49,800
launched the war. 
Just a few months before that in

923
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,400
January, there's reporting in 
the Wall Street Journal, and 

924
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,900
other outlets that the u.s. was 
starting to share intelligence 

925
00:52:56,900 --> 00:52:58,500
with the houthis to help them 
fight. 

926
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:03,000
Al-Qaeda So then they turn 
around and switch sides, really?

927
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,900
And because the UAE, there's 
been extensive reporting from AP

928
00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:10,500
or there's a 20-18 report from 
AP about it. 20:19 report from 

929
00:53:10,500 --> 00:53:16,900
CNN about it from have all 
places of how the US war of how,

930
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,100
you know, they're backing 
al-qaeda-linked militants. 

931
00:53:20,100 --> 00:53:25,100
That the UAE is more so than 
anybody else in southern Yemen 

932
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:28,200
there and, and how weapons that 
they're selling to Saudi Arabia.

933
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,900
And the UAE are ending up in the
Ends of al-qaeda's. 

934
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,500
So at the same time when Trump 
came in, he actually really 

935
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:41,200
escalated, the Drone war against
al Qaeda in Yemen as well as 

936
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:43,200
ramping up support for the 
Saudis. 

937
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:47,200
So that just shows what a mess 
u.s. foreign policy is, you 

938
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,800
know, that raid when he first 
came into office, circuit killed

939
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,600
Al alack. 
We'd young girl, whose brother 

940
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,300
was killed a few years earlier 
by Obama in a drone strike. 

941
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,100
That was a raid. 
Supposed to be a raid against al

942
00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:03,000
Qaeda. 
And so, yeah, I mean, it's just 

943
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:07,600
a total mess, but really by 
backing this Coalition that use,

944
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,900
Al-Qaeda, guys to fight the 
houthis, you're on the side of 

945
00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:14,000
Al Qaeda in this war. 
So, even though, while caters 

946
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,400
the enemy, they're on their 
side. 

947
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,600
In Yemen, we know from Jake 
Sullivan's, emails, that Al 

948
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,800
Qaeda and us are fighting on the
same side. 

949
00:54:22,900 --> 00:54:28,400
Sometimes against Bashar 
al-assad's regime, and with a 

950
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,300
solemn on E and Iran. 
Depending on which day of the 

951
00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:34,900
week, it is, apparently, is it 
true that LIF G? 

952
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:40,300
The Libyan Islamic fighting 
group is Al-Qaeda in Libya and 

953
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,700
the u.s. took their side against
Muammar Gaddafi? 

954
00:54:45,100 --> 00:54:46,500
Yeah. 
I mean that's another thing that

955
00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:51,100
came to light after the u.s. 
involvement in Libya was how 

956
00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:55,000
involved Al-Qaeda was in that 
initial stages of that war. 

957
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,200
So, yeah, we've seen this all 
over the place and I mean right 

958
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,100
now he's still in Syria. 
In idlib, province in the north,

959
00:55:02,100 --> 00:55:07,000
that's still controlled by Hyatt
tahrir al-sham HTS who were 

960
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,000
there, formally al-nusra front, 
which was Al Qaeda in Syria. 

961
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,700
I mean, they're out kada. 
They're trying to pretend like 

962
00:55:13,700 --> 00:55:18,900
they're not anymore, but they, 
they're in al-Qaeda group and 

963
00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:22,700
the u.s. there's another, 
there's other groups, her a Cell

964
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:25,600
Dean is one of them that are 
more there. 

965
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,600
Another Al-Qaeda affiliate that 
the u.s. 

966
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:32,000
Targets in drone strikes in 
idlib They target this one group

967
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,800
but then it's just such a mess 
because HTS is sort of is backed

968
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:41,300
by turkey, not openly. 
But if you look at what turkey 

969
00:55:41,300 --> 00:55:44,100
doesn't that region? 
They definitely have helped HTS 

970
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,200
and the u.s. kind of nominally 
quietly backs with turkeys doing

971
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,600
in that part of Syria. 
But then they're against what 

972
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,600
turkeys doing against the Kurds 
in Northeast Syria just over 

973
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,500
here. 
I mean it's just such a mess and

974
00:55:56,500 --> 00:56:01,400
it just shows how messy the 
foreign intervention can get. 

975
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:05,500
And when you find yourself in 
multiple countries, backing the 

976
00:56:05,500 --> 00:56:08,200
people that are supposed to be 
our enemy that were responsible 

977
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,800
for 9/11. 
I mean, it's just such a 

978
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,100
disaster. 
One of the most difficult things

979
00:56:14,100 --> 00:56:19,300
to do is to wrap your head 
around people in large scale 

980
00:56:19,300 --> 00:56:22,000
involved in large-scale 
institutions people with a lot 

981
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,700
of money. 
A lot of power and a lot of Fame

982
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,800
then being really, really wrong.
Not just like a little bit away 

983
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,000
from the bullseye, but, like, 50
kilometers in the other 

984
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,600
direction. 
So, when it comes to, why are so

985
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,500
many of these wars occurring, if
the anti-war position is, right,

986
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,400
shouldn't it have caught on 
globally and governments. 

987
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,500
No longer being able to wage 
war. 

988
00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:47,900
How is it that war is able to 
survive if you have so many good

989
00:56:47,900 --> 00:56:51,900
arguments against it? 
Well, I mean it's just you know 

990
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:57,600
if we want to get back to more 
of a libertarian view of it and 

991
00:56:57,900 --> 00:57:00,400
you know, I always think of war 
is the health of the state which

992
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:06,500
was the essay by Randolph Bourne
and it just you see how powerful

993
00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:09,600
a state grows in war and how 
much more power they gain, 

994
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,800
especially after 9/11, the 
Patriot Act, Just a few obvious 

995
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:19,900
examples in modern history. 
And also, now with the US how 

996
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:23,500
intertwined the arms industry is
the military industrial complex.

997
00:57:23,500 --> 00:57:26,400
I mean, there's just so much 
money to be made here and 

998
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,400
sometimes I think it might just 
be as simple as that right now. 

999
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,800
And today for the u.s., I mean 
with what's happening in 

1000
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,300
Ukraine, they're spending tens 
of billions of dollars on this 

1001
00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:41,000
war sending weapons to Ukraine. 
And then part of that is 

1002
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,400
replenishing, the Weapons that 
they're sending to Ukraine. 

1003
00:57:43,700 --> 00:57:46,200
And also the European countries 
are now buying more American 

1004
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,100
weapons because they're worried 
about Russia, and it's just this

1005
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:52,200
cycle never ending cycle of just
money money. 

1006
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,300
And now Taiwan they're going to 
give them billions in a teacher.

1007
00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:58,700
I mean, it's corporate welfare. 
It's just so obvious. 

1008
00:57:58,700 --> 00:58:01,200
And on the face of it that I 
think right now, I think it is 

1009
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,400
as simple as that. 
I mean, Lloyd Austin is Biden, 

1010
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,400
Secretary of Defense, he was on 
the board of Raytheon before he 

1011
00:58:07,900 --> 00:58:10,900
joined the B Administration and 
that happened under Trump to 

1012
00:58:10,900 --> 00:58:14,200
James Madison. 
Forget blanking on it, but he 

1013
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:20,000
came from another, you know, our
defense, contractor arms maker, 

1014
00:58:20,300 --> 00:58:23,100
and then so did Mark esper his 
other secretary of defense. 

1015
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:27,300
So it's just that's become kind 
of a new thing that person. 

1016
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:29,500
It's just so blatant. 
Now the person running the 

1017
00:58:29,500 --> 00:58:33,300
military comes from that 
industry where there's such an 

1018
00:58:33,300 --> 00:58:37,600
interest in starting Wars and 
funding proxy wars and all this 

1019
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,500
stuff and it's just not 
sustainable. 

1020
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:41,400
What the US is trying to do 
right now. 

1021
00:58:42,100 --> 00:58:45,800
It is like the most classic case
of concentrated benefits and 

1022
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,500
dispersed costs that the 
economist could come across. 

1023
00:58:49,500 --> 00:58:53,100
It's so important because we 
see, you know, but the first 

1024
00:58:53,100 --> 00:58:57,000
world war, a little country of 
Serbia, you know, getting this 

1025
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,600
whole thing, provoked between 
Russia and Austria and Germany, 

1026
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,600
and Britain, and America. 
And then this little town, 

1027
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,400
Danzig starts a war between 
Poland, and Germany, and Britain

1028
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,000
and everything else. 
And now again, we're back to 

1029
00:59:10,100 --> 00:59:14,200
these two little places that On 
bass and Taiwan not say that 

1030
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,300
they're little and they don't 
matter. 

1031
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,700
But I don't think people 
appreciate the matches that that

1032
00:59:20,700 --> 00:59:24,300
the ruling class is playing with
in the sea of oil that they find

1033
00:59:24,300 --> 00:59:26,600
themselves in. 
So that's why I asked that 

1034
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,300
people check out anti-war.com, 
of course, links to Dave's 

1035
00:59:30,300 --> 00:59:31,700
writings will be in the 
description. 

1036
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,300
Final question for you, sir, 
what is your message to members 

1037
00:59:35,300 --> 00:59:37,700
of the military past and 
present? 

1038
00:59:38,700 --> 00:59:43,400
Well, so, my message, would be 
you know anybody in the military

1039
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:48,300
right now I think people should 
I don't think people should be 

1040
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,200
joining the military and 
especially now we're we're 

1041
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,800
standing on the precipice of 
potentially two major Wars with 

1042
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,900
Russia and China. 
And that I think that's why 

1043
00:59:57,900 --> 01:00:00,300
movements like defend the guard 
I think are really important 

1044
01:00:00,300 --> 01:00:04,600
because they're trying to get 
the National Guard to not have 

1045
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:08,100
to be deployed to these wars 
that aren't even declared. 

1046
01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:14,800
And you know, we really need to 
not give them people to send to 

1047
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,600
these wars, to send to die in 
this. 

1048
01:00:16,700 --> 01:00:21,200
Wars and for past people that 
were previously in the military.

1049
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:26,800
I mean, some of our strongest 
friends and allies are veterans 

1050
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,200
who have seen this stuff 
firsthand and every veteran. 

1051
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:35,200
I know have stories about just 
the exorbitant waste. 

1052
01:00:35,500 --> 01:00:37,500
That's really the big one that 
you always hear. 

1053
01:00:37,900 --> 01:00:40,200
And of course, if they were 
involved in combat, they have 

1054
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,700
horrific stories there or, you 
know, just about handing out 

1055
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:48,500
money to, you know. 
Tribal leaders in Afghanistan 

1056
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:51,400
and things like that, that they 
should share with people and 

1057
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,600
really tell people what it's 
about and we have to stop 

1058
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,600
glorifying it because the u.s. 
it's very clear. 

1059
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,600
Now it's a lot clearer now, I 
think that the government 

1060
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:05,100
doesn't have people in the 
military's interest at heart at 

1061
01:01:05,100 --> 01:01:09,800
all so people should get out and
should enjoy and I think it's 

1062
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,200
clear now more than ever that 
that's what people should be 

1063
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,100
doing. 
I used to kind of be hesitant 

1064
01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:17,900
really too. 
Speak out about this because I 

1065
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:21,200
know so many people that have 
joined the military and had 

1066
01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:23,700
thought they didn't have any 
other options and went there to 

1067
01:01:23,700 --> 01:01:27,300
get the GI Bill and stuff. 
But now it's like, I think anti 

1068
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,900
recruitment activism and stuff 
is pretty important and I think 

1069
01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:33,500
veterans can play a big role in 
that because if he hears from 

1070
01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:36,300
some hippie it's not going to 
sound as powerful as somebody 

1071
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:39,000
who did a few tours in Iraq or 
Afghanistan. 

1072
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,300
And so it was really like. 
So let's name those name so 

1073
01:01:42,300 --> 01:01:45,800
people can check them out. 
I know Douglas McGregor is a big

1074
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:46,400
one. 
I know. 

1075
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,000
Her Van Buren worked at the 
state department. 

1076
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,700
He's great on the amount of 
waste who are some other 

1077
01:01:52,700 --> 01:01:55,700
veterans that well, those two 
alone. 

1078
01:01:55,700 --> 01:01:58,900
There's so much to read. 
You can be busy for a year who 

1079
01:01:58,900 --> 01:02:03,300
are some of the other veterans 
that that come to mind. 

1080
01:02:03,700 --> 01:02:07,700
Well, Danny surcin is one of the
best and he hasn't been writing 

1081
01:02:07,700 --> 01:02:10,900
recently, but if you just go to 
anti-war.com, I mean he's 

1082
01:02:10,900 --> 01:02:16,000
written prolific like prolific 
worry about these issues kind of

1083
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,100
talking about. 
I was really thinking of a lot 

1084
01:02:18,100 --> 01:02:20,900
of his anecdotes when I was 
talking about the examples of 

1085
01:02:20,900 --> 01:02:27,100
waste and Matthew, ho to he's 
another good one and then 

1086
01:02:27,100 --> 01:02:29,700
McKnight, who's leading the 
defend the guard movement thing?

1087
01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:31,500
I think he's a really important 
voice. 

1088
01:02:31,900 --> 01:02:35,600
And I think he can really speak 
to a lot of more people that 

1089
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:42,200
could be leaning toward the 
military and stuff and Yakko 

1090
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:48,200
willing was, was definitely in 
the Military and he had Scott 

1091
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:49,400
Horton on the show. 
That's right. 

1092
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:54,100
Yeah. 
Jack / Sobek was a naval. 

1093
01:02:54,100 --> 01:02:58,500
I think psychological warfare 
officer something in that Arena 

1094
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,300
and he's come out and said, Ron,
Paul was right about this 

1095
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,300
Libertarians are better than 
conservatives on foreign policy 

1096
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,500
so we're we're getting a lot of 
people there. 

1097
01:03:09,100 --> 01:03:11,800
There's so many. 
Yeah, there is I think I've 

1098
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:13,700
mentioned Ron. 
Paul was in the Vietnam. 

1099
01:03:13,700 --> 01:03:15,100
Yeah, that's right. 
I always forget that. 

1100
01:03:15,100 --> 01:03:19,000
There's a lot to mention it. 
A lot of people that I could, 

1101
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:23,100
that I will probably think of 
after we talk here and that I 

1102
01:03:23,100 --> 01:03:25,300
wish I mentioned. 
But yeah, there's definitely a 

1103
01:03:25,300 --> 01:03:28,800
lot and I think again that some 
of them are most valuable people

1104
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,900
are veterans because they speak 
from experience. 

1105
01:03:32,300 --> 01:03:35,900
I mean, Tulsi gabbard, she had 
she just came out and said that 

1106
01:03:35,900 --> 01:03:38,400
is Islam. 
Islamic terrorism is like the 

1107
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,600
number one threat to the world. 
She says, a lot of stupid things

1108
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,700
about the war on terror. 
She's really bad on that but she

1109
01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:48,700
was kind of the You know, the 
anti-regime, change War 

1110
01:03:48,700 --> 01:03:52,200
candidate in 2020. 
And it meant a lot coming from 

1111
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,600
her because she was there in 
Iraq and stuff, and saw it. 

1112
01:03:55,300 --> 01:04:00,200
Exactly yes, she's really good. 
Sometimes just throws us under 

1113
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,700
the bus other times. 
Yeah, it goes to show you how 

1114
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what we need to D politicize 
things as much as possible 

1115
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:09,100
because the best politicians are
still just like the worst people

1116
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,100
ever. 
The website is anti-war.com and 

1117
01:04:13,100 --> 01:04:15,800
libertarian institute.org Dave 
DeCamp. 

1118
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:17,100
Thank you so much for your Time 
sir. 

1119
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Thanks for having me.