1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,440 Ask people to imagine two separate criminals. 1 criminal 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,680 takes a woman's ballot and instead of putting it in the 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,640 ballot box, he puts it in the paper shredder and her vote 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,560 doesn't get counted. No one thinks that that is going 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:17,320 to change the outcome of an election. 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,600 Even if that one vote changed which politician won? 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,160 Politicians are liars and totally ignorant on most issues, 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,800 so it's not like anything really would have changed in the real 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,800 world. But now say there's a second 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,680 criminal who threatens to imprison a woman if she gets a 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,680 job without first going from 2000 hours of cosmetic school. 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,840 Well, he has actually drastically changed her ability 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,640 to achieve her ends in life 8 hours a day, five days a week. 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,480 She's not able to do something she likes in an industry she 15 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:51,400 likes. She's not able to please all 16 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,080 those customers. Well, in that case, you've 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,520 really done something bad. So market regulation is far 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:08,640 worse than boating regulation. Welcome to the Drop the Mask 19 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,840 podcast, dropping knowledge and infiltrating the hive mind of 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,480 mainstream thought. I'm here to break down what's 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,120 wrong with our systems, leaders and institutions. 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:30,120 I'm your host, Jason, Welcome back to Drop the Mask. 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,680 I'm very happy to welcome this next guest, the author of this 24 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,160 great book, Domestic Imperialism, 9 Reasons I Left 25 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,000 Progressivism. And he's also the organizer, 26 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,040 author of The Voluntariest Handbook. 27 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,240 He's the managing managing editor at the Libertarian 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,640 Institute. Keith Knight, welcome to the 29 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,800 show. Jason, thanks so much for having 30 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,040 me, man. My pleasure. 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,360 Did I miss anything else you'd like to mention before we get 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,240 started? Nope. 33 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,040 You got both books. You got the Institute already 34 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:01,960 Happy. Thank you. 35 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,120 Very good, very good. The book is really good. 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,160 I like that it doesn't mess around. 37 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,600 It gets right down to the facts, just like you'd expect from 38 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,720 Keith based on what I've seen in other interviews. 39 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,040 So I was thinking that originally I might ease into 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,800 this question, but what the hell, let's get right into it 41 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,640 and see if maybe we can't defend somebody. 42 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,200 So I'll set it up like this. I grew up hearing people say to 43 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,760 military veterans, thank you for your service. 44 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,040 It's like a reflex, right, for a lot of people. 45 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:35,280 And for a long time, even before I got into libertarian theory 46 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,480 very deeply, I just couldn't bring myself to say it. 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,280 And I didn't know exactly why. Maybe it just felt a little bit 48 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,920 cringy. And I think deep down, I knew 49 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:46,960 something was wrong. Like, none of the military vets 50 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,600 I knew had even seen combat. And I don't know, excuse me now 51 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,680 I know just what a big scam the military industrial complex is, 52 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,720 so I just don't do it. But I heard you on a podcast, I 53 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,800 think it was with Dave Smith talking about this, suggesting 54 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,680 that maybe I should be looking for them to thank me. 55 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,080 Why would that be? Well, every time that you 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,680 interact in the private market, more or less, anytime you go to 57 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,800 Starbucks, go to a restaurant, go to a supermarket, the people 58 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,800 there thank you for shopping there. 59 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,960 They say, hey, you only have so much money that is scarce and 60 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,040 you're choosing to spend some of that money with us. 61 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,600 So they always thank us. But the police, military, 62 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,440 politicians, teachers never thank us for being taxpayers. 63 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,000 It literally has never happened. Even when I went on Dave Smith's 64 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,680 show and said, will any of them thank me for all the taxes I've 65 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,360 paid since I've been a net taxpayer? 66 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,600 And still it has yet to happen. So what essentially happens was 67 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,960 summarized by Antonin Scalia, who said that the welfare state 68 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:58,080 turns turns people who, oh gosh, I always butcher this one. 69 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,880 It's something to the extent of it creates beneficiaries without 70 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,960 gratitude and donors without love, donors without love or 71 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,880 recipients without gratitude, because the people who are 72 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,280 forced to pay are just that forced. 73 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,040 So they don't feel like it's coming out of a sense of duty or 74 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,920 general obligation. Even when Mark Cuban brags about 75 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,480 paying taxes. Well, the fact that you don't 76 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,480 have the right to opt out, the fact that you don't have the 77 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,600 chance to, the opportunity to choose where they go, in what 78 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,280 amount, based on what conditions. 79 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,160 All right, NATO, you got two months to wrap this war up. 80 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:35,560 I'll pay you for two more months. 81 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,160 But if you don't do it, then you got to pull out and I'm going to 82 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,320 stop funding. There's not even any conditions. 83 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,280 So while we constantly have standards and metrics for people 84 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:48,320 in our everyday lives, people do not have the most basic metrics 85 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,480 or standards for how the state should operate. 86 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,480 So because people don't feel like they're actually giving the 87 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,760 public something, even though they call it public service, 88 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,960 they're not. They don't thank us simply 89 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,280 because they're not thankful. They know it doesn't come out of 90 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,600 the kindness of our hearts. It's just a coercive obligation. 91 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,000 So this creates a great deal of friction in society, even though 92 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,360 it's not explicitly talked about, where members of the 93 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,640 military and police, no matter what happens, they don't say, 94 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:24,280 well, we only get paid if we win a war or if we get this war aim 95 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:27,920 accomplished without killing too many civilians or destroying too 96 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,520 many buildings that took decades to erect. 97 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,880 Of course, they don't even have these standards for themselves. 98 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,320 So because there was a coercive element to taxation, all these 99 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,040 services that we get are far worse than they otherwise would 100 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,680 be simply because we don't have the option to opt out of funding 101 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,960 them. And it doesn't even necessarily 102 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,480 help the people getting the money in the long run, because 103 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,720 it makes them ungrateful and makes it so there's not a lot of 104 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,160 pressure on them to really provide a good service for the 105 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,320 public. So that, along with a number of 106 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,160 other things, is one of the primary reasons that I think 107 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,160 everything should be privatized. Yeah, I'm glad of you. 108 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,120 Glad you brought up Mark Cuban, because I was just reading that 109 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,360 today. He's flaunting his $280 million 110 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,560 tax payment today, and we're recording this on tax day. 111 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:23,120 And he said that military service is the first thing, but 112 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,840 the second thing is paying taxes as the most patriotic thing you 113 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:29,080 can do. What do you think about that? 114 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,160 So I guess that means he has a great deal of admiration for all 115 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,120 the Russian soldiers risking their lives in Donbass. 116 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,760 He must have a lot of admiration for all the Iranian soldiers who 117 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,480 are part of the IRGC, must have a lot of admiration for 118 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,960 Hezbollah, all those Hamas fighters who are risking their 119 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,680 lives. I guess that's just something 120 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,120 inherently good. All of the Japanese soldiers in 121 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,200 the Second World War who risked their lives for Hirohito, he 122 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,120 must really, really admire them. Or it doesn't just so happen to 123 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:00,920 be the country that he belongs to. 124 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,840 Those soldiers have the the right to be constantly admired 125 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,720 for no other reason. And look, if you're a farmer and 126 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,640 you provide a very good service getting food to millions of 127 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,480 people, it's OK to thank farmers for their service or anything 128 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,040 like that. But that doesn't. 129 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,320 Just because someone provides something important doesn't mean 130 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,120 they have the right to have you coercively fund them. 131 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,320 And they shouldn't have to face competition. 132 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,120 And whenever a farmer tells you to do something, you have to 133 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,640 blindly obey them out of total respect. 134 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:37,160 So I just don't have any double standards for the police and 135 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,440 military and even the Mark Cubans of the world will have 136 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,920 tons of skepticism toward the police and military, but only 137 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,800 for every country that he doesn't currently reside in. 138 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,400 So that's that's how you know how shallow of a belief it is. 139 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:57,400 There was a joke on the office where Ryan, he like has a cheers 140 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,240 at a party and he goes here's to the troops, both sides. 141 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,840 And The funny thing is, is that if your claim as well, these 142 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,960 people are risking their lives for what they believe in, that 143 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,600 has probably applied to every single war that has happened 144 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,600 since, I don't know, ancient Mesopotamia. 145 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,520 So to say that the metric for admiration is life risking for 146 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,720 something you believe in, well that means Muhammad Atta is on 147 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,000 your admiration list. Just have some standards. 148 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,720 Just be willing to say these soldiers are the good guys who 149 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,919 deserve respect because they're fighting for this good objective 150 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:36,400 and that good thing. Then we can at least have a 151 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,720 substantial argument about you know what, what is it worth 152 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,440 achieving at what cost in what time period. 153 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,560 But they never say that. It's just such a simple minded 154 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,680 knee jerk reaction to thanking people for getting a job even 155 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:52,320 though they get tons of money whether or not they provide a 156 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,240 good product or service. So I just think it's so divisive 157 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,960 and doesn't help the intended beneficiaries or the people who 158 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,080 are forced to fund it. Yeah, well, Keith, come on. 159 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,080 Surely every other country has propaganda within their media 160 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,760 and they lie to them, but not the United States, right? 161 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:12,640 That's that's. Why? 162 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,760 I'm so thankful. Thank God. 163 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,080 What if we had propaganda in the media? 164 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,320 That would be scary. Yes. 165 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,480 And to be clear, I don't want to disparage veterans. 166 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,960 I think many of them really believe they were doing 167 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,120 something noble. Many people were just looking 168 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,280 for a job after high school. And the Army promises a lot of 169 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,560 benefits for those people. And I'm not mad at them. 170 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:35,800 It's the institution of perpetual war that really 171 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,080 bothers me. So moving on, you have a chapter 172 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,400 called The Unavoidable Contradiction. 173 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,800 This concept is something that I always find frustrating when I'm 174 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,920 trying to talk to people outside of, you know, the end cap 175 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:53,880 libertarian spectrum, that it's just they can't or won't put 176 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,640 this together. And So what is that 177 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:01,120 contradiction that you refer to? The contradiction is referred to 178 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,720 as antitrust legislation or it's the antitrust justification. 179 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,880 So this is where one of the primary roles of government is 180 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,840 to make sure that there are no monopolies in any industries. 181 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,760 The claim is that if we had a monopoly in, say, microphones, 182 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,880 computers, television, food, that you would have basically 183 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,880 the entire society very reliant on one organization who could 184 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,000 decrease quality without facing any check and balance. 185 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,160 Or they could drastically increase the cost of a product 186 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,200 or service and the public at large would suffer as a result 187 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,560 of this. So therefore the state needs to 188 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:44,200 make sure that no one company gets too much power within a 189 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,720 certain market. The problem is these same people 190 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,480 virtually 100% of the time. That's why I call it 191 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,320 unavoidable. Will say that the state should 192 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,360 monopolize compulsory education. Catholic Church doesn't have the 193 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,920 right to force you to fund or attend their schools. 194 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,960 The state should monopolize central banking and the money 195 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,080 supply. The state should monopolize the 196 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,520 right to conscript a military. If anyone else tried forcing you 197 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,400 to perform labor against your will, even if it was for the 198 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,920 greater good, they'd still be called kidnappers and enslavers. 199 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,960 State claims a monopoly right to tax. 200 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,200 If Amazon or Goodwill tried issuing taxes for the betterment 201 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,840 of society, even if they promised to use the money to 202 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,160 build buildings which will help people in the long run, people 203 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,640 would still clearly see it as theft. 204 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,240 And they have a monopoly right on the declaration of war. 205 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,720 If there were other tribes or groups in America where Costco 206 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,200 decide to declare war on Sam's Club, they'd say well obviously 207 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,040 this is just one group trying to reap benefits at the expense of 208 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,640 another and committing atrocities in the process. 209 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,840 So they claim these five things need to be monopolized when 210 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,560 their entire theory for why we need a state usually rests on 211 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,760 one of the reasons being you need antitrust laws to make sure 212 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,160 you don't have monopolies. Then they go on to advocate that 213 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,880 monopolies exist in the most important sectors of society. 214 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,080 That is the unavoidable contradiction which every single 215 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,520 progressive that I've ever spoken to believes in. 216 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,120 Yeah, Amen. And in the chapter you talk 217 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,560 about the progressive idea to defund the police. 218 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,640 How does that fit into that contradiction? 219 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,040 So you can see how fake this is because the police are the 220 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,320 enforcement arm of the progressive agenda. 221 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,120 If you just had Ilhan Omar, AOC, Bernie Sanders, Woodrow Wilson 222 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,160 writing words down on paper, well then there's not much to 223 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,200 enforce it. People would clearly see that 224 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,080 this is just a scam of trying to coercively involve yourself in 225 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,960 the lives of peaceful people. But if you have a state 226 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,640 apparatus which has a police force, well then that's how you 227 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,120 enforce regulations. That's how you enforce the 228 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,040 minimum wage, That's how you enforce diversity, equity and 229 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,400 inclusion legislation or affirmative action or anti 230 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,920 discrimination laws. Not because people like to 231 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,640 engage in those activities. So they do so voluntarily. 232 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,800 You have a political apparatus which uses the police to enforce 233 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,120 the legislative agenda of the politicians. 234 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,200 So for the progressives to say we want to defund the police, 235 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,120 that is for them to say we want none of the things that we want 236 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,520 enforced to be enforced. It's like a boxer who comes out 237 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,240 and says, I want to cut off my arms for the next big fight. 238 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,600 It's just so shocking that they even toyed with this idea. 239 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,840 And then, of course, the first opportunity they get to actually 240 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,080 vote on funding for the police was after January 6th. 241 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,720 There was a vote on whether or not to increase police, the 242 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,600 Capitol Police funding. And of course, AOC comes out in 243 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,360 support of it and later defends it by saying, well, this 244 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,080 actually had a lot to do with pensions, which were promised. 245 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,840 So in other words, she thinks that there's this evil, racist, 246 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,000 sexist, white supremacist organization who hunts 247 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,280 minorities in their free time, the police, but we have to fund 248 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,880 them because of a pension agreement. 249 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,400 It's the greatest threat to civilization, yet we got to keep 250 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,440 funding it. Apparently this belief was held 251 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,480 in the mind of a rational person, of course. 252 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,440 It was just much more of a rallying cry to inflamed the 253 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,560 passions of the feeble minded to support her. 254 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,840 They're never going to advocate for abolishing funding because 255 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,080 they could never enforce any of the gun laws, any of the minimum 256 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,600 wage laws, any taxation they wouldn't be able to enforce. 257 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,240 They just have to say please fund us or will provide a 258 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,760 product or service in exchange for it and they have no interest 259 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,440 in doing that. So that's why the defund the 260 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,960 police can't scam coming from progressives was just so obvious 261 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,560 from the get go. Yeah. 262 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,520 And so anarchists would also be in that realm of wanting to 263 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,280 defund the police. I won't speak for you, but I 264 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,480 would say I could be in favor of that under certain conditions. 265 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,960 What is your position on that? My position is a full 266 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:21,480 privatization of security. So when you use any form of 267 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:27,240 technology, say you use PayPal. PayPal has private security that 268 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,920 it invests in. Not because it's a organization 269 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,480 that took a big democratic vote and thinks about the public 270 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,960 interest because they want people who use their platform to 271 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,480 be safe. So they have passwords and 272 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,160 password requirements and they have multi factor verification. 273 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,120 Venmo also has this. Microsoft has this. 274 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:51,040 Google has multi factor authentication and a lot of 275 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,600 places for computers where your most valuable information is 276 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,280 stored. There are places like Webroot 277 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,000 security. There's places like Sentinel One 278 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,520 who have virus detection and things that fend off ransomware. 279 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,280 You have private security guards at malls. 280 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,880 You have private security guards at banks, shopping centers, a 281 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,640 lot of places. Every concert venue I've been to 282 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,080 has private security. I was at the Desert Ridge Mall 283 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,240 in Scottsdale. They have a ton of private 284 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,120 security, More on Saturdays when it's a little more dangerous and 285 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,680 less on, you know, Wednesday in the afternoon because it's in 286 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,120 their interest to make sure their area that they're 287 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,800 responsible for is safe because they want to incentivize 288 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,400 customers to go there. The state doesn't necessarily 289 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,840 have that. They don't have this equilibrium 290 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,240 to achieve where you want security, but you don't want, 291 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:50,840 you know, a total, you know, security area where the guards 292 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,240 are constantly going through everyone's purse every time they 293 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,080 walk in the, you know, Walmart or something. 294 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,680 So they have to find some equilibrium between 295 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,200 incentivizing people to come there and making customers 296 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,680 happy. Governments don't face such a 297 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,880 check and balance because they get money coercively, whether 298 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,280 you will love their service or hate their service. 299 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,000 So all security should be privatized. 300 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,040 The problem with immediate abolition is the state has 301 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,920 created a monopoly in this area of courts and justice. 302 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,800 So immediate abolition, Well, you know, other intellectuals 303 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,960 have spoken about, well, it would have been good to do this 304 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,880 and say 1913, where you just immediately abolish state police 305 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,240 because you couldn't have had a First World War, which wouldn't 306 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,080 have caused a Second World War, which couldn't have, you know, 307 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,880 caused proxy wars in Korea and Vietnam and created NATO or 308 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,200 created this crisis in Ukraine. But other bad things would have 309 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,040 also happened if you just immediately abolish it. 310 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,920 So I just support a move towards volunteerism and as much 311 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,920 privatization as possible, simply because all of these, the 312 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,240 core function of protecting human beings, their ability to 313 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,600 cooperate socially, and the property they acquire through 314 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,560 voluntary exchange or homesteading, is much better 315 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,560 achieved in a system with competition and voluntary 316 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,480 funding as opposed to a state apparatus. 317 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,040 Great answer. I don't have anything to add to 318 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,680 that. Hey guys, let's take a quick 319 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,440 break here for an easy request. Please like or share or give a 320 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,040 rating for me and follow me on X and locals. 321 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,440 That's where I'm most active at. Drop the mask pod on both 322 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,680 platforms. If you're feeling generous, you 323 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,040 can throw me a couple bucks on locals, but no pressure. 324 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,680 Follow and share. It costs you nothing and it 325 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,600 helps spread the liberty message out there. 326 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,720 Thank you. Now let's get back to the show. 327 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,000 Next question. In your last appearance on the 328 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,000 Tom Woods show, you talked about starting your own business at 14 329 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,760 and how that experience shaped your world view. 330 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,680 Can you tell us just a little bit about that? 331 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,200 Because we started this landscaping business just under 332 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,520 the table 'cause I didn't have a work permit, I was 14 and you 333 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,720 usually need parents to sign off if you're under 18. 334 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,440 And we started making a good deal of money after some time 335 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,480 and then decided, hey, we want to make this legitimate now, to 336 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,360 make this business legitimate and stop going on to the table. 337 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,800 The stack of paperwork that we had to fill out was so 338 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,360 burdensome that we just stopped. So what the state essentially 339 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,240 does, also, I had to go to school at the time. 340 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,160 So what the state does, or else my parents would have been 341 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,200 jailed for violating truancy laws. 342 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,000 What the state does is it keeps kids in schools where they learn 343 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,560 very little and stop them from going into the workforce. 344 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,320 Now there's no difference in principle between forcing a kid 345 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,040 to work on school work and homework and a kid getting paid 346 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,840 for work outside of the classroom, the kids working 347 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,600 either way. So at least in this area, 348 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,760 they're making money, they're getting their foot in the door, 349 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,400 they're getting on the job experience, they're learning how 350 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,880 to please customers, how to work with other Co workers, how to 351 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,800 work with employers. So child labor is much better 352 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,040 than state schooling immediately. 353 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,480 Second thing this does is it means other companies face less 354 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,720 competition. So when there was less 355 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,640 competition, like people like my buddy and I entering the 356 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,760 landscaping market, you have higher prices and consumers have 357 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,120 fewer options than than they otherwise would if people were 358 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:29,240 allowed to freely exchange in this area. 359 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,040 The progressive sees this immediately when they say, you 360 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,800 know, I think you should have to have a license to vote, and you 361 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,520 should have to pass a test, both physical and mental, and then 362 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:41,760 the government can let people vote. 363 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,400 If they pass those tests. The progressive immediately 364 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,600 says, well, what if those tests are bias? 365 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,080 And who are they to say who can and can't vote? 366 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:51,080 They're just politicians. They're fallible. 367 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,960 They might put their thumb on the scale that's going to, you 368 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,480 know, restrict people's ability to access voting machines, 369 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,200 which, of course, Yeah, that is the goal in many cases. 370 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,600 And that is no different than requiring tests, restrictions 371 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,400 and regulations in the private market. 372 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,960 The core difference which I bring in, I bring up in the this 373 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,600 book. I ask people to imagine two 374 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:20,240 separate criminals. 1 criminal takes a woman's ballot and 375 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,480 instead of putting it in the ballot box, he puts it in the 376 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,080 paper shredder and her vote doesn't get counted. 377 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,400 No one thinks that that is going to change the outcome of an 378 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,880 election. Even if that one vote changed 379 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,160 which politician won? Politicians are liars and 380 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,400 totally ignorant on most issues, so it's not like anything really 381 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,680 would have changed in the real world. 382 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,160 But now say there's a second criminal who threatens to 383 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,200 imprison a woman if she gets a job without first going through 384 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:53,800 2000 hours of cosmetic school. Well, he has actually 385 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,000 drastically changed her ability to achieve her ends in life 8 386 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,400 hours a day, five days a week. She's not able to do something 387 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,280 she likes in an industry she likes. 388 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,840 She's not able to please all those customers. 389 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,040 Well, in that case, you've really done something bad. 390 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,560 So market regulation is far worse than voting regulation. 391 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,600 And the progressives are always claiming the moral high ground, 392 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,800 saying we believe in voting rights and increasing access, 393 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,520 but voting is just giving people who are ignorant on issues the 394 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,600 right to use the state to enforce their ignorant beliefs 395 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,360 on others. It's not even necessarily a 396 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,080 right that that that everyone has in the 1st place. 397 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,120 Or I'd venture to say no one just has the right to vote for 398 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,680 to confiscate other people's property. 399 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,120 But in the second case, when you forcibly stop someone from 400 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:43,400 getting a job they want and stop customers from being able to 401 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,520 interact with businesses and entrepreneurs which they'd like 402 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,600 to, you create oligopolies. You create higher prices. 403 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,240 They call higher prices inflation, not knowing that it's 404 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,760 actually an increase in the money supply. 405 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,240 But now if their whole thing is will inflation's really bad, 406 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,000 They just call it greed inflation. 407 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,360 Well, higher prices are the result of restricting access to 408 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,640 a certain industry because you have fewer choices, you have a 409 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,920 lower supply that raises the demand for people in the 410 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,240 industry as a whole. So everything they complain 411 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,440 about is the result of some people having a right to coerce 412 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,040 their way into what would otherwise be voluntary 413 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,120 interactions. Yeah, and then coerce people's 414 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:29,800 kids into schools forever. And as someone who went to six 415 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,880 years of college, and I was in public schooling institutions 416 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,960 for about 19 years of my life in total, I've developed quite the 417 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,880 disillusionment with public education in general. 418 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,280 So I'm happy to see that you have a chapter on College in 419 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,080 here. And you say college is 4 years 420 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,440 of work at $0.00 an hour. Why do you frame it that way? 421 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,520 What's the story? Because the progressive 422 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,080 justification for the minimum wage is one of the main things 423 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,200 that they run on. AOC runs on this. 424 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,400 Bernie runs on this, most Democrats and when Republicans 425 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,200 are in power, they never, you know, vote to abolish the 426 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,880 minimum wage. So the claim is that the central 427 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:16,400 premise is that all work is worth $15.00 an hour, and if you 428 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,560 can't pay someone $15.00 an hour, you shouldn't be able to 429 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,200 engage with them at all until you can pay them this $15.00 an 430 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,400 hour. The problem is the vast majority 431 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,320 of these progressives advocate college. 432 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,960 So if we can say, well, children don't have the mental capacity 433 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,520 to make decisions, therefore compulsory education is OK, 434 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,000 whatever. Now let's just talk about 435 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,800 adults. They believe 18 year old adults 436 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,480 can take out like 100 grand in student loans and do hours and 437 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,040 hours of work every single day out of college and not get paid 438 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,240 a single dime. Not only do they not get paid, 439 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,720 they got to pay all this money back plus interest. 440 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,120 So then of course they'll say yeah, college should be paid for 441 00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,960 by the taxpayer. That's still forcing people to 442 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,880 pay instead of allowing them to voluntarily do so. 443 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,080 Whatever different issue. The claim is that most every 444 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,760 progressive believes in a minimum wage. 445 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,560 And even if they don't push college, which most of them do, 446 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,320 they'll say college is justified because you're investing in 447 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,520 yourself. You're trying to learn something 448 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,520 about the world so at a later point in your life you can add 449 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,480 more value to society as a whole. 450 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,880 Well, that's what internships are. 451 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,080 That's what getting on the job experience is. 452 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,600 I don't make as much now as I did in my very first job because 453 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,840 I had no skills. So I did this landscaping thing, 454 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,320 and then that didn't work out because of the regulatory 455 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,800 burden. So I worked at a restaurant, 456 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,640 then I worked at a bank, and now I got the dream job at the 457 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,680 Libertarian Institute. The point is, is that when 458 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,720 people start, they have very few skills. 459 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,160 So a lot of employers don't want to bear too much of A costly 460 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,520 burden in order to bring them on because with most people, it 461 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,840 doesn't work out in their first job or in any of their early 462 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,720 jobs, and there's a lot of turnover now. 463 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,000 So when you make it so costly to employ people, you end up 464 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,160 hurting the people with the least amount of skills and the 465 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,000 least amount of experience. This is what the minimum wage 466 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,440 does. It's why you have so many people 467 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,800 without stuff to do during the day. 468 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,680 So they end up looting, rioting and, you know, setting American 469 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,280 flags on fire and demanding free Palestine, which, look, they're 470 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,320 totally right about the Israeli mass murder campaign in 471 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,080 Palestine. But all these kids who were in 472 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,800 these riots, they don't advocate for free America. 473 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,800 They don't advocate. They don't say, well, Palestine 474 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,200 should be a land where all interactions are based on 475 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,160 volunteerism. They just don't want the 476 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,480 Israelis in there. They don't like have any 477 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,680 standards for Hamas. They don't have any standards 478 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,200 for the PA. They don't want freedom in 479 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,920 America. They want what I title the book 480 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,680 Domestic Imperialism. So it's literally just like 481 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,800 saying I'm against Joe Biden being bad and that's why I love 482 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,400 George W Bush because at least it's not Biden. 483 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,360 Well that's still not freedom in any sense. 484 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,480 So the fact that they advocate for freedom for a distant 485 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,320 geographical area while advocating tyranny on the area 486 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,640 they currently occupy, it's completely counterproductive and 487 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,840 the only reason they have time to do all this trash is because 488 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,680 it's not that easy to get a job compared to how it used to be. 489 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,760 Walter Williams actually looked at unemployment rates among 16 490 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,440 and 17 year olds in 1948 and found that the black 491 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,880 unemployment rate was lower than the white youth unemployment 492 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,000 rate, both demographics ages 16 and 17. 493 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,760 Now today in 2023, Bernie Sanders says racism is the 494 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,280 reason why there's such a gap in employment rates between blacks 495 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,440 and whites. Well, if 1948 there were still 496 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,600 Jim Crow laws, that was far more of a racist time than we have 497 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,280 today, and that didn't 'cause this disparity. 498 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,840 So because of minimum wage laws, because of all these 499 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,760 regulations, people have fewer options of where to work and 500 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,160 consumers have fewer options of what products and services to 501 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,800 buy and the monopolies and oligopolies, faceless 502 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,000 competition. So all this is terrible. 503 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,920 And it's primarily the result of minimum wages and regulations. 504 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:24,520 Well, the minimum wage is a regulation. 505 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,360 They're saying if you don't meet this threshold, you don't have 506 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:30,400 the right to interact with anyone even if they want to, 507 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,560 even if it's on a voluntary basis. 508 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:39,600 Jen Helfeld actually interviewed Nancy Pelosi and said, you 509 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,480 advocate raising the minimum wage. 510 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,160 Oh, yeah, we got to do this. Whatever it goes It it appears 511 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:50,560 that you have interns at your office and they make $0.00 and 512 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,640 zero cents an hour. Why is that OK? 513 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,360 To which she actually says with a straight face, well, that's 514 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:01,360 something they chose to do. So he says, well, if I choose to 515 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,840 work at McDonald's for less than the minimum wage, is that OK? 516 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,080 She is on. She is like such an MK Ultra 517 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,960 victim. She literally thinks that 518 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,880 there's a principal difference between working at this place 519 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,560 versus working at that place. She thinks one is public service 520 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,160 and, well, McDonald's is in it for the money. 521 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,120 Is the government a nonprofit organization where politicians 522 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,120 don't get paid? They're all unpaid volunteers. 523 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,200 The soldiers are unpaid volunteers. 524 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,600 All the staff members of the White House are unpaid 525 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,800 volunteers. No, they're both in it for the 526 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,120 money. At least McDonald's let's you 527 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,480 opt out of funding their trash. Government forces you to fund 528 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,640 their trash. So McDonald's is still better as 529 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,280 a place to work. So minimum wage is very 530 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,800 dangerous for the empirical reasons I mentioned. 531 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,640 And it's wrong in principle, which is why I tried to give it 532 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,760 a very catchy title of college being something that adults do 533 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,440 voluntarily that involves not a little work. 534 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,560 I'm not trying to straw man it and say, oh, so if I ask you to 535 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,840 help me move a couch, I should have to pay you $15.00 an hour. 536 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,360 This, by any metric is a ton of work to get a bachelor's, 537 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,400 master's, or doctorate degree and you don't get compensated 538 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,440 for it. And it's OK to have because some 539 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,880 people see the value in engaging in that exchange. 540 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:23,120 So because this is such a hole in the minds of the not just the 541 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,160 average progressives, the expert progressives, the Paul 542 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,200 Krugman's, the Richard Wolff's of the world, that I thought it 543 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,560 was one of the many chinks in their armor, which I wanted to 544 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,560 really point out to people. Yeah, agreed. 545 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,480 Just to play devil's advocate here, with college, someone 546 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,240 could argue that you're not actually working, although it is 547 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,520 hard work. You are paying somebody for a 548 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,200 service to teach you things. What would you say to that? 549 00:30:55,120 --> 00:31:00,800 Yeah, that that is one way that people look at college another 550 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,680 way. Gosh, I can't remember the name 551 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,200 of Isaac Morehouse's organization. 552 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,640 I think it was called Praxis. But when you get a job, you are 553 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,440 getting on the job experience and you're learning a ton of 554 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,320 things in in exchange. So that too could be viewed as a 555 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,080 service, which is why a lot of people would pay to have a job 556 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,360 at a really good place just to get the on the job experience. 557 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,400 I don't see how learning on the job is fundamentally different 558 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,600 from learning at college. They both involve work. 559 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,440 They're both investments. There's no guarantee that either 560 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,040 one will yield you a satisfactory outcome. 561 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,280 So does that get to the heart of of your objection? 562 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,440 You're paying someone for a service. 563 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,880 Yeah, I guess that that that doesn't invalidate anything. 564 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,200 But if you view it like that, then I could see people saying 565 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,800 that's why I chose to spend that money. 566 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,040 That's why I chose to do that work because I see value in this 567 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,880 other people don't. Others see others see far more 568 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,840 value in getting on the job experience with, I don't know, 569 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,800 plumbing, welding, getting a job at a bank, but I did land 570 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,640 surveying for some time and well, you know, I wasn't, I was 571 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,120 making less than minimum wage. It was still good just to get on 572 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,840 the job experience. So looking back, I would have 573 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,520 paid for that service, but instead someone paid me to reap 574 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,760 the benefits of that service. So while there are surface level 575 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,400 differences in how people originally go into these 576 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,200 agreements doesn't fundamentally change the nature of whether or 577 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,800 not people have the right to whether or not adults have the 578 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,560 right to engage in contracts that are work in exchange for 579 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,560 money or work in exchange for experience or work in exchange 580 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,920 for attention. Well, we don't have to get, 581 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,760 well, we don't have to get into that sometimes. 582 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,600 So I've given when I first started giving speeches, no one 583 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,240 knew who I was. So I would just go to places, 584 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,920 work really hard on the speech and create the service of giving 585 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,520 people a speech to listen to. Now, unfortunately at a 586 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,280 different point, but that was just on the job, learning that I 587 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,920 had to engage in in order to get to the spot where I am now 588 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,560 'cause I didn't have any books published. 589 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,120 So if, say, you have to pay someone in order to give a 590 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,440 speech, well, people are already willing to pay the Hillary 591 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,000 Clintons of the world to give speeches, but people with no 592 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,160 experience are going to be kicked out of that market 593 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,760 because there's just not the demand for them at at that time. 594 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,760 So that I I would have to reconsider the exact wording of 595 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,560 your question. But I still don't think that 596 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,440 that would invalidate whether or not someone has the right to 597 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,440 engage in a voluntary contract that involves them engaging in 598 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,600 work for $0.00 an hour in compensation. 599 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,120 Because in both cases, on the job and in college, they're 600 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,679 still choosing to learn or not learn things that they come 601 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:13,679 across. Yeah, no, I don't think it 602 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,239 invalidates it at all, just throwing that out there. 603 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,760 But I I think people would, if they had the option to work for 604 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,840 $5.00 an hour, even $2.00 an hour, and gain those skills and 605 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,600 knowledge, rather than paying $100,000 in tuition, they would 606 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,679 take the option where they get paid a little bit and learn the 607 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:35,560 same skills and knowledge. So yeah, I don't think you're 608 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,199 wrong at all. You mentioned in the 609 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,760 acknowledgements part of your book that you dropped out of 610 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,320 college. Can I ask what happened there? 611 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,440 What prompted that, if you don't mind? 612 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,600 You know the that actually might be misleading because I was 613 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,600 actually kicked out of college on three occasions from three 614 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,000 different ones. I guess the dropout happened 615 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,480 when I decided not to apply for any more colleges. 616 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,080 So now it's the drop. But originally it was a kick. 617 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,920 I just didn't do any of the work. 618 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,120 I found it so boring and so counterproductive. 619 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,800 So the teachers would be surprised because I was always 620 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,800 reading, but they never assigned the myth of the robber barons or 621 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,720 Tom Woods. 33 Things They Don't Teach you about American 622 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,640 History. I loved reading those books. 623 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,040 I was always reading them in class. 624 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,120 But look, when I got to the Community College that I 625 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:34,440 attended and she starts talking about the Pythagorean theorem, I 626 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,520 just, I was in such a fit of rage at the lack of respect that 627 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,800 they have for the time of the students there. 628 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,360 I just couldn't believe it. So yeah, I was kicked out 629 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,920 because I found the topic so boring. 630 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,000 There was one guy at Arizona State, I think his name was Paul 631 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,720 Hurt. He was a history teacher. 632 00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:01,680 He came the closest to getting me interested in in discussions, 633 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:08,560 but even then it was just too much work for too little reward. 634 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,240 And when you have to go home after working, you have to go do 635 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:15,200 homework, and it's on something very narrow that you're not 636 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,720 really interested in. I just couldn't. 637 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,400 I had already learned about opportunity cost from the 638 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,600 Austrian school. So I'm like, all right, I could 639 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,080 spend the next three hours doing this or three hours doing 640 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,880 something where I either make money or make friends or find it 641 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,040 genuinely interesting. And plus, I see all the people 642 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,920 who worked hard in college and, you know, got these degrees, not 643 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,480 that impressed with them in general, mostly on their 644 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,960 humility meter, where they'll say, hey, here's what should be 645 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,000 done in Palestine. Here's what should be done in 646 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,280 the Donbass region. Here's what antitrust laws 647 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,160 should be. Here's what agricultural 648 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,080 subsidies should be, even though they never studied these issues 649 00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,920 in particular. None of them have an explanation 650 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,040 for the unavoidable contradiction or why college 651 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,720 should be legal considering it violates the principle of the 652 00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:08,920 minimum wage law. So I'm just not that impressed 653 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,480 overall. It'd be one thing if they said, 654 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,600 well I went to college, I studied this. 655 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,800 So on these areas I haven't looked into it much. 656 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,440 But every metric shows that people are totally ignorant with 657 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,360 regard to politics. They could always say, oh, I 658 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,960 haven't looked into it, so I'm just not going to take an 659 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,320 opinion on it. Just as when you go on an 660 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,880 airplane, you don't say, let's take a vote on how to fly this 661 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,120 thing. You engage in the division of 662 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,320 Labor and people who are experts and people who specialize. 663 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,120 But for some reason in politics, people think that everyone's 664 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,600 income is just everyone's opinion, rather is equally 665 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,040 valid. And that's just absolute, 666 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,760 absolutely ridiculous. And I don't see a lot of college 667 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,520 attendees have embraced that humility when it comes to the 668 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,960 political realm. So that's just one of the other 669 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,000 reasons I didn't really find it valuable to spend so much time 670 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,800 and energy on schoolwork. So got kicked out of three of 671 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,880 them. Nice, well I'm glad you realized 672 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,600 that early. I really wish I had. 673 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,240 As one of those unimpressive degree holders, I can vouch for 674 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:14,160 that. I'll say if you have any other 675 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,920 option, kids out there, don't, don't do college if you have, if 676 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,640 you can do anything else. All right, well, let's move on. 677 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,800 I wanted to ask you about the social contract. 678 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,000 So there's this idea that we have as Americans that we are 679 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,640 beholden to this contract to pay taxes and do our civic duties. 680 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,480 What is the social contract to you and what's wrong with the 681 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:45,520 idea? So let's say that you have a 682 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,960 contract outside of the state. Usually what that means to 683 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,840 people is I will give you a product or perform a service in 684 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,320 exchange for you, say, paying me money or giving me another 685 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,240 product or service in exchange. So you say I'm going to send you 686 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:07,440 $10 through PayPal and in exchange I will send you Race 687 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,080 and Culture, this excellent book by Thomas Sowell. 688 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,400 The understanding is if you don't send me the $10, well then 689 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,680 I don't owe you the book. I only promised you the book in 690 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,480 exchange for the money. And if I don't give you the 691 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,400 book, if I say you know what, I'm not going to send you the 692 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,720 book, but send me the money, say well this is not a contract. 693 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,840 This is just one person putting an obligation on another person 694 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,640 to either give them money or a book. 695 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,520 So that is the nature of what a contract is. 696 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,640 I'll give you X in exchange for Y. 697 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,560 What the state does generally is Co opts this and says well there 698 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,680 is a social contract and that's why they have a unique right to 699 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,520 issue taxes because you pay taxes but in exchange you get 700 00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:52,960 police, military, infrastructure, etcetera. 701 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,480 Well notice that there's no other side to this equation. 702 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,920 If you don't chip in, you will go to jail if they catch you not 703 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,120 chipping in. However, what if they don't 704 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,040 provide a good? Police force and they just let 705 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,520 BLM rioters do whatever they want and they don't protect your 706 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,200 property. What if they don't provide a 707 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,600 good military which doesn't bring democracy to Libya or 708 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,120 Iraq? Or spends 20 years in 709 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,280 Afghanistan replacing the Taliban with the Taliban after 710 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,320 killing 10s of thousands of civilians with drone strikes? 711 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,120 Which nine out of every 10 targets are not the intended 712 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,800 target. 9 out of every 10 people killed in them according to the 713 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,000 drone papers published by The Intercept. 714 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,240 What if the education system doesn't really educate people 715 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:39,000 that well after 12 years? Well, it turns out this is not a 716 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,720 contract of a give and take sort of thing. 717 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,920 This is just one group of people, the state putting an 718 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,880 obligation on other people to do things. 719 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,480 So just as we would never accept this kind of contract, that's 720 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,480 just unilateral obligations on one party with no right to opt 721 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,320 out if the goods or services provided don't meet the 722 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,400 standards of the people paying, we should not accept it in the 723 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,480 political realm for the same reason we wouldn't accept it in 724 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,680 private spaces. Surely if we don't like it, we 725 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,720 can just vote the people out and vote in new people who will fix 726 00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:18,440 it, right you? Can do that certainly the 727 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,280 problem is that is extraordinarily costly and the 728 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,560 amount of time you spend it's extremely unlikely that that 729 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,760 will affect the outcome and all we have to do is imagine if all 730 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,600 right Amazon has the right to issue taxes and regulations and 731 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,320 has the right to conscript everyone and if you don't like 732 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,360 it in four years you can be a stockholder in Amazon and vote 733 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,680 for the next Amazon CEO and get your guy in there immediately. 734 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,840 People would say, well, that's just a scam from Amazon to 735 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,280 control you and get more money, obviously, and then give you the 736 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:57,080 illusion that voting that that your one vote would have to, you 737 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,440 know, take effect and change tons of things which are not in 738 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,280 your direct control. So there are some things which 739 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,280 you just don't have control over, whether it's in inside of 740 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,560 a state or outside of a state. But this whole nature of the 741 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,320 relationship between the state and the citizen, where they have 742 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,040 unique obligations to the state which they don't have to any 743 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,280 other organization in society, is what makes it totally 744 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,080 unjustifiable that that. That's my position. 745 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,800 Yep, fair enough. So I guess you would not agree 746 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,040 with the statement that democracy is actually ruled by 747 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:38,320 the consent of the governed. No, so I addressed this 748 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,960 specifically in a chapter. I won't get into the details, 749 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:48,520 but as far as the consent of the governed, it's necessarily a 750 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,080 contradiction because if you have people's consent, then you 751 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,000 wouldn't have to claim the right to initiate coercion against 752 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,560 them. You would just be another 753 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,640 organization within society. So if consent of the governed is 754 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,760 the justification, well then if people don't consent to chipping 755 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,880 in every year, if they don't consent to engage in certain 756 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,760 regulations, I guess the claim is just, well, we have the right 757 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,840 to use coercion against anyone at any time. 758 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,040 And if you don't like it, you can read the 10,000 page pieces 759 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,400 of legislation that we pass without reading it ourselves 760 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,080 once you decipher it and get a lawyer to explain what each line 761 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,280 means. Even though members of the 762 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,320 Supreme Court don't agree on what two sentences in the 763 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,520 Constitution means, you're supposed to figure this out and 764 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,680 then actually consent to it. So it's not based on the consent 765 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,360 of the governed, because when you try to opt out, you as a 766 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,800 human being not first getting other people's permission, they 767 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,680 don't recognize your right to. So therefore it's not based on 768 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,080 the consent of the governed. In another podcast, you shared a 769 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,880 quote that I really liked. It's by Chris Freeman. 770 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,600 It says we're vulnerable to politically motivated reasoning. 771 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,680 The unconscious goal of our political deliberation is not to 772 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,040 find truth, but rather to protect our identity as a loyal 773 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:14,200 member of our political team. How does that manifest in 774 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:19,800 politics today? Well, when I first give the 775 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,880 examples of how there's no good justification for the minimum 776 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,360 wage or there's no good justification for the 777 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,840 unavoidable antitrust contradiction, you have to ask 778 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,400 yourself, how could so many people believe something so 779 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,320 blindly? Not just so many people, so many 780 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,720 experts who have spent decades on this. 781 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,800 So when I came across that explanation as to why people 782 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,720 believe things, it made a heck of a lot more sense that it's 783 00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:49,840 about signaling allegiance to a tribe in hopes of having a 784 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,480 community that you could fit in, that you could survive in and 785 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,160 you could pass your genes down into the future. 786 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,360 That makes a heck of a lot more sense than any response I've 787 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,600 gotten to the minimum wage argument or, you know, the pro 788 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,880 war advocacy from any of these groups. 789 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,400 So I was basically looking for how could so many people 790 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,360 believe, so many people believe such ridiculous things? 791 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,600 And I think that really fits the bill more than anything else 792 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,520 because, I mean, these things are just so shocking. 793 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,640 You have people saying with a straight face, we have to 794 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,040 support Ukraine and oppose Russia because Ukraine's a 795 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,880 democracy. Well, on March 31st of this 796 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,600 year, Zelensky was supposed to hold elections, didn't hold 797 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,240 elections. And they're they didn't stop 798 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:41,840 supporting Ukraine. He's enslaved all men ages 18 to 799 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,400 60 to fight in a war against their will. 800 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:49,800 Another word for slavery, forced labor and and they still support 801 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,120 him. Uses martial law to nationalize 802 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,680 TV outlets into one channel, bans political parties. 803 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,560 And all these experts with all these degrees still say, well, 804 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,360 yeah, they're the democracy and the other people are 805 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,480 authoritarian. The fact that anyone could say 806 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,960 that with a straight face after everything that's happened. 807 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,200 And I'm very pro Ukraine, which is why I hate Zelensky. 808 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,120 All of these politicians usually operate at the expense of their 809 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,400 populations and use them as cannon fodder for their own 810 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,040 self-interest. So that was one of the best 811 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:28,080 explanations I came across as to why people engage in political 812 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,520 activity when they really don't seem that interested. 813 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,840 I mean, I've come across people with degrees who have never 814 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,640 heard any argument in opposition to the minimum wage or antitrust 815 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,240 legislation. So if you think of, say, you get 816 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,280 pulled over by the police and they say, do you have any 817 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,440 weapons on you before I let you go, are there any unregistered 818 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,800 guns in the car? And you say no, and then the cop 819 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,560 searches you and finds out you know you lied and you do have a 820 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,200 3D printed gun or something. One way to approach that is to 821 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,200 say that's so weird that the person didn't tell the reality 822 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,120 to the cop 'cause they had to have known. 823 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,160 And the answer is, well, the goal isn't truth. 824 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,240 The goal is to keep yourself safe from the officer. 825 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,480 So when we're asking ourselves why do people believe such trash 826 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,480 when it comes to politics, well, the goal isn't truth 827 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,360 unfortunately. The goal is to signal allegiance 828 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,960 to a tribe. So just as your goal isn't truth 829 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,440 when you're talking to the IRS or a police officer, sometimes 830 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,720 your boss, sometimes your spouse or family members, the goal is 831 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:39,400 just survival. With politics, it's almost the 832 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,960 exact same thing. So we don't see a lot of truth 833 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,000 because the goal is not truth. The goal is survival and being 834 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,600 surrounded by a like by like minded people. 835 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,720 Yes, Scott Adams has a similar theory. 836 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,760 He says once you pick a side, you're basically giving up 837 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:03,000 objectivity at that point. Like once you identify with the 838 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,080 team, that's part of yourself. So it's really hard to change 839 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,440 your mind. How do you avoid that 840 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,840 personally? Well, I try to make my identity 841 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,640 the person who is willing to change, so I'm happy to concede 842 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,760 that I've been wrong about a number of things in the past, 843 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,000 and when you make your identity, I'm open to changing, then it's 844 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,440 a lot easier to change. The guy who has almost mastered 845 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,480 this is Tucker Carlson, A guy who was insufferable for so long 846 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:36,480 is now kind of likable because he will not shut up. 847 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,080 Shut up about how wrong he was about supporting the invasion of 848 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,240 Iraq. He'll have conversations with 849 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,720 tons of people from any aspect of life. 850 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,800 And because he's made his identity not I support George 851 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,440 Bush. His identity is I've been so 852 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,040 wrong about so many things. He gave a speech that I saw in 853 00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,040 Arizona at the Turning Point USA event where his whole thing was, 854 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,120 I thought I'd been wrong about a lot, but last month I was so 855 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,480 incredibly wrong. It was one of the most 856 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,360 embarrassing things ever. And he was talking about the 857 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:13,360 midterm elections of 2022. He thought that he had been 858 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,880 saying that there's just going to be a huge Republican wave and 859 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,960 they're going to get more seats than they ever have before. 860 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,880 And that just didn't happen. So the center of his speech is, 861 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,400 I was wrong again. I can't believe it. 862 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,800 And that's why I'm open to having discussions. 863 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,920 So when you change your identity from these people are correct, 864 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,160 and this idea and its implementation are correct, too. 865 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,680 I'm open to anything. Here's my current position. 866 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,800 Once that's your identity, then it makes things a heck of a lot 867 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,800 easier. That's a great answer. 868 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,600 I have 100 more questions, but I'll finish off with this one. 869 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,360 Another quote from the back of the book, which has a collection 870 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,800 of various quotes that influence you. 871 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,160 It's from Larkin Rose. He says perhaps the most telling 872 00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,920 is if you suggest to the average person that maybe God does not 873 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:04,280 exist, he will likely respond with less emotion and hostility 874 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,480 than if you bring up life without government. 875 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,640 This indicates which religion people are more deeply 876 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,040 emotionally attached to and which religion they actually 877 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,920 believe in more firmly. What does that mean to you? 878 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,200 So one of the reasons that I chose this quote is because if 879 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,360 you are an atheist, which most progressives identify as, they 880 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:32,280 are claiming that all of the expert theologians, all of the 881 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,000 priests, all of the rabbis, all of the imams, all of the 882 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,680 bishops, all of the Cardinals for thousands of years have just 883 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,840 been totally wrong. And the reason they're wrong is 884 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,760 they have a fundamental premise which is unjustified, which is 885 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,160 the Bible, the Torah, the Quran is true. 886 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,280 So this amount, the amount of confidence that people get when 887 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,440 they're able to say, Oh yeah, all the experts and tons of 888 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,640 people throughout all of history, they're all wrong on 889 00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,480 this religion thing or this God thing. 890 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,600 Once you recognize that that is a position that people are able 891 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:08,120 to hold, then it at least opens their mind up to the possibility 892 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,720 that, yeah, the entire justification for a state is 893 00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:14,320 counterproductive. All the core services the state 894 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:18,400 provides would be better achieved under a system of 895 00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:23,400 volunteerism and competition. I think that was the main 896 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,120 reason. Also, there's a lot of overlap 897 00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,760 between. But people who say, well, you 898 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,520 can have your religion, just don't force it on me. 899 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,160 Usually what they mean, bizarrely, is I don't want to 900 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,920 hear about it. Don't try to persuade me. 901 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,920 So what I think people should do in general is embrace the 902 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,240 Jehovah's Witness world view where they are constantly 903 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:47,720 ambitiously trying to persuade people of something. 904 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,720 And they'll give you a ton of time, they'll give you books, 905 00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:55,520 they'll invite you to services. And if you choose to opt out, 906 00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,160 then they will still recognize that, right? 907 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,720 Even if they think it means you're going to burn in hell for 908 00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:03,920 all of eternity, they still recognize your freedom to do so. 909 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,640 The progressive or any statist really does not give you that 910 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,200 courtesy unfortunately. So it's the fact that people are 911 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,920 willing to let you spend eternity in hell or the 912 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:21,360 progressive things you're going to spend your eternity living in 913 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,360 fantasy world, believing in a God, going to a church, donating 914 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,480 to a church. Even though those things might 915 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,600 be negative repercussions, they still advocate the principle of 916 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,400 freedom in many cases. So because we believe in freedom 917 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,440 of religion, I think we, for the same reasons, should believe in 918 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,480 freedom of economic exchanges between consenting adults. 919 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,680 Those were, I think, the two reasons that that quote stood 920 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,760 out for me. Do you think there's any hope to 921 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,040 reach people on a large scale or you? 922 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:53,880 What's your outlook for the future? 923 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,840 Yeah, I think these ideas can become much more popular when 924 00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,600 you have a likable personalities promoting them. 925 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,320 The idea that it's going to be like mass educational adaption, 926 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,880 I think a very only a very small portion of people have to really 927 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,760 get educated on this. If the goal was to get everyone 928 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,840 educated on or even a majority educated on Austrian economics 929 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,120 or anything. I think we just need better 930 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,240 marketers and better bumper sticker slogans. 931 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:28,920 And we need people in positions of power and influence to be 932 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,080 able to sort of give the green light to this idea. 933 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,360 Because just hearing it from guy who was kicked out of three 934 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,400 colleges, not a lot of people respect that. 935 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,880 But you have people like Elon Musk saying, well, the state's a 936 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,800 monopoly when you have the president of Argentina saying 937 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,200 favorable things, when you have the president of El Salvador, 938 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:53,720 Prime Minister speaking highly of libertarian ideas while 939 00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:59,000 crushing down on criminals and human traffickers and and the 940 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,640 like, and murderers drastically decreasing the murder rate in El 941 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:07,160 Salvador. I think that is the most likely 942 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,720 way you're going to increase the popularity of our ideas and 943 00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:12,880 increase the likelihood that they'll be accepted by the 944 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,160 average person. Very good. 945 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,080 Well, I'm hopeful. I'm trying. 946 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,120 I'm doing my part here working on getting bigger and reaching 947 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:22,760 more people. But I really appreciate your 948 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,920 time coming on today, Keith, thank you so much. 949 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,040 Anything else you want to plug or talk about before we go? 950 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,760 Not necessarily. If people want the book, they 951 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,880 can purchase it on Amazon or they can get a free PDF at 952 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,520 libertarianinstitute.org. Very good, go pick it up. 953 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,320 I do recommend it. Domestic imperialism. 9 reasons 954 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,040 I left progressivism. Thank you, Keith. 955 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,360 Have a good one. Thank you. 956 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,400 Follow me on X at Drop the Mask Pod and join the free Locals 957 00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,480 community Drop the Mask pod.locals.com.