1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,100 From the introduction of defending, the indefensible, by 2 00:00:03,100 --> 00:00:07,600 Walter block the impetus for this book is libertarianism. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,900 The basic premise of this philosophy is that it is 4 00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:14,000 illegitimate to engage in aggression against non 5 00:00:14,100 --> 00:00:16,700 aggressors. What is meant by aggression is 6 00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:19,100 not assertiveness argumentativeness. 7 00:00:19,300 --> 00:00:22,700 Competitiveness adventurousness, quarrelsome, nests or 8 00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:25,700 antagonism. What is meant by aggression is 9 00:00:25,700 --> 00:00:31,000 the use of violence such as that which takes place in Murder rape 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,900 robbery, or kidnapping libertarianism does not imply 11 00:00:34,900 --> 00:00:37,400 pacifism. It does not forbid. 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,900 The use of violence in defense or even in retaliation against 13 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:45,000 violence. Libertarian philosophy condemns 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,200 only the initiation of violence, the use of violence against a 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,200 non-violent person or his property. 16 00:00:53,100 --> 00:00:54,900 Dr. Block. Thank you for coming on the 17 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:57,800 libertarian Institute and keep my don't tread on anyone. 18 00:00:57,900 --> 00:01:02,400 Where is the best place to find? A wide range of collection of 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,200 Publications. I guess Walter blog.com would 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,900 list. All of them are most of them. 21 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:13,500 I try to keep up, keep it up to date. 22 00:01:13,500 --> 00:01:16,500 I don't always succeed, but that would be a good start. 23 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:20,100 Otherwise, just Google me. Sounds good today. 24 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:22,300 I wanted to talk about some of our heroes. 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,700 In the Freedom Movement. I want to start with page 2 of 26 00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:30,600 your book defending the undefendable where you dedicate 27 00:01:30,700 --> 00:01:33,900 this book to a number of people, please tell me the most 28 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,800 important contribution. You think this person is made to 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,400 the Freedom Movement or something. 30 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,800 You personally learn from them. You thought was really valuable 31 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,800 Nathaniel Branden. Well, Nathaniel Branden. 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,800 Pretty much converted me a little bit turn ism. 33 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:52,700 And, by the way, there are now three defending. 34 00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:54,800 The undefendable is defending. The indefensible. 35 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,700 One, two, and three, three just came out, but I think you're 36 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:01,500 talking about defending the undependable one. 37 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:05,500 What happened was? I was a socialist, like, my 38 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:06,700 buddy. Bernie Sanders. 39 00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:10,000 We went to high school together and My Views were roughly the 40 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,200 same as his and I'm ran, came. The Brooklyn College to speak 41 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:18,500 and I came to Boone his her, because everyone knew that fan 42 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:22,400 of prize was And we lead to starvation and we needed 43 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,400 government and I booed and hissed her and there was a big 44 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,100 group and then afterwards and someone said the iron ran 45 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:34,100 studies club that had invited her to Brooklyn College, was 46 00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:36,400 having a luncheon. Her honor and anyone could come 47 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,800 even if you disagreed and I wanted to convert her to 48 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,600 socialism. So I went and there was this 49 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,600 long table. She was sitting at the head of 50 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,500 it and the Valium Brandon was next to her. 51 00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:49,000 And then it peikoff and Alan Greenspan, and the senior 52 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,400 collector. Have they called it and I was 53 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,300 relegated to the other end of the table, the foot of the 54 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:55,700 table. And I turned to my neighbor. 55 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:59,300 I said, you know, this socialism is great, capitalism is evil. 56 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,700 They said, why don't really know that much about it, but the 57 00:03:01,708 --> 00:03:05,900 people at the other end of the table, do So I went up there. 58 00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:09,700 I was maybe 20 and Brandon was 35, ran maybe 50. 59 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:16,200 This must've been 1963, and I stuck my head in between ions 60 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,300 and Nathan's. And I said, there's a socialist 61 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:20,700 of wants the baits tomorrow socialism and capitalism. 62 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,000 And I said, who is it? And I said, me and Brandon was 63 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,900 very, very nice. He said, look, I'll there's no 64 00:03:26,900 --> 00:03:28,800 room for you here at this end of the table. 65 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,500 I'll come to your end of the table and we'll talk about it on 66 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:32,900 two conditions. One. 67 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,800 You promised to read two books that I recommend, you, Atlas 68 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,800 Shrugged and economics in lesson, 1 Lesson by Henry 69 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,400 hazlitt and to you promise to keep this discussion going. 70 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:48,100 And so we settled it and you don't stop until we've achieved 71 00:03:48,100 --> 00:03:53,500 agreement or we realize we can. So I read the books and I went 72 00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:59,100 to his house and her house, and I was converted after all, four 73 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:02,400 or five sessions. I mean, Atlas Shrugged was 74 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,400 magnificent. It's my We're book. 75 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:08,200 I read it then and I read it every ten years since and 76 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:10,600 something the gold speech were trying to find boring. 77 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:16,100 But I love that book. It's my favorite novel and I use 78 00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:21,300 it in my classes. And so Brandon meant a lot to 79 00:04:21,300 --> 00:04:24,000 me. He converted me to limited 80 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,600 government limits journalism. And what was it about economics 81 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,000 in one lesson, Atlas Shrugged and your conversations with 82 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,800 random Brandon. What was The switching point for 83 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,800 you to take you from socialism to libertarian menarche ISM. 84 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:43,600 I think it was there were a lot of things that lestrade was 85 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,600 inspirational. One thing that sticks out in my 86 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:53,300 mind was in capitalism. If you do a good job, you make 87 00:04:53,300 --> 00:04:55,500 profits. You can expand your base of 88 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:58,900 operation. And if you do a poor job, you 89 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:01,000 lose money. And you have to go do something 90 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,600 else. Whereas in government. 91 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,500 You don't have that or Medic feedback mechanism, which 92 00:05:05,500 --> 00:05:09,600 rewards doing good and penalizes doing bad. 93 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,400 So the market was more efficient and also more moral. 94 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,500 Because in the market, it's voluntary trade, you bought that 95 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,600 gray shirt for 10 bucks and it was a voluntary interaction. 96 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,300 Whereas your relationship, the government is not a voluntary 97 00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:31,000 one, you pay taxes, whether you like it or not. 98 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,600 And if you don't, you know, they'll be repercussions. 99 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:37,000 Turns against you, another person, you mentioned in your 100 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,200 introduction. Was Ian Rand. 101 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,100 Is there anything else from Ein rand's? 102 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:44,300 The Fountainhead of Atlas Shrugged that really stuck out 103 00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:50,100 to you? Well, Atlas Shrugged, I mean, I 104 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:51,700 don't know. I get tongue-tied when I think 105 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:54,200 about that book. It is my favorite novel and a 106 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,400 lot of people criticize it. They say it's too. 107 00:05:57,700 --> 00:06:03,100 I don't know what unrealistic or something like that but it 108 00:06:03,100 --> 00:06:04,700 really struck. Accorded me. 109 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:09,300 I found it very realistic, you know, the bad guys, when they 110 00:06:09,300 --> 00:06:11,800 would have a meeting as the, you know, how to screw up the 111 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,200 economy. It was just so true. 112 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,100 And I mean, she comes from Russia. 113 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,900 She is English is a second language. 114 00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:26,000 And yet, the vernacular and the, the way of speaking, it was just 115 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,700 dead on and it was just inspirational. 116 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,300 I mean, I've read all of her books, all of her novels. 117 00:06:33,300 --> 00:06:35,500 I I read a lot of her nonfiction as well. 118 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:39,500 And I agree with virtually all of it. 119 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:43,000 Not all of it, you know, because she's a miniature kiss or 120 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,600 limited government libertarian. She rejected the phrase 121 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,700 libertarian and she called herself, an objectivist. 122 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:55,400 She dismissed us Libertarians is hippies of the right, but, you 123 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,100 know, I still have a soft spot in my heart for Ian ran because 124 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:03,500 she and Brandon converted me to it and I consider a libertarian. 125 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:08,700 On by that, I mean to compliment her and, you know, that the 126 00:07:08,700 --> 00:07:12,500 economics was all that grabbed me how metaphysics and 127 00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:15,700 epistemology and all that other stuff as Aesthetics. 128 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:19,100 It never really grabbed me. And also she was a little bit 129 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:22,500 cultish. As was Brandon, you know, I was 130 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:27,400 at the NBI Nathaniel Branden Institute lectures, and if 131 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,800 somebody in the audience would ask a question on page, 44 Miss 132 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,800 Rand. You said this, could you Were 133 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,100 80. That would be a good question. 134 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:38,600 But if you said on page 44, you said this on page seven hundred, 135 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,800 you said that and I see a contradiction she would kick you 136 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,000 out. I mean that was grotesque, you 137 00:07:46,008 --> 00:07:48,400 know, sometimes with my own students if they ask me it's 138 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,100 tough question. I threatened to kick them out, 139 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:53,300 but I'm only kidding, she was serious. 140 00:07:53,700 --> 00:08:01,500 So she was an imperfect person but I tell you a heart and Ron 141 00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:05,400 Paul with a to most Some people in converting people to 142 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,200 paternalism harfa, my generation Ron, Paul probably for your 143 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,700 generation. So, you know, we owe our we 144 00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:17,400 live, it turns over great that and I and I like to pay my 145 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,600 debts. Edward Stringham said that he 146 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,400 tried to ask you a really tough question. 147 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,100 When he was one of your students. 148 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:27,900 He says these Libertarians I say coercively funded monopolies are 149 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:32,299 bad, but then they justify it in the realm of the production of 150 00:08:32,299 --> 00:08:35,400 security and he said, That you took him into your office to 151 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,500 really give them the lowdown on what's going on. 152 00:08:38,700 --> 00:08:43,299 I just, I love those stories. I remember one of my former 153 00:08:43,299 --> 00:08:45,600 students. I must have maybe a dozen or 154 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,800 almost that doesn't. It have former students of mine 155 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:51,500 who are now professors of Economics like Ed and he is done 156 00:08:51,500 --> 00:08:55,700 yelman work and I'm delighted that I was able to pass on the 157 00:08:55,700 --> 00:09:00,000 Baton that Murray rothbard gave to me that I gave passed on to 158 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,500 Ed string on and many others next person. 159 00:09:03,700 --> 00:09:05,200 Walter E. Grinder. 160 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,800 Most important thing you learned from him. 161 00:09:07,900 --> 00:09:11,100 Well, before we get to him, I have to tell you a little bit 162 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:17,600 more of my Odyssey. I was sort of schizophrenic with 163 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,400 Ian ran because I had an approach avoidance thing with 164 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,300 her. They were the only Libertarians 165 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:25,800 I knew. So I would go to the meetings 166 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,700 and I would be put off by the cultish - and I stay away two or 167 00:09:28,700 --> 00:09:33,100 three months and then I'd go back and then I was a student at 168 00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:37,300 Columbia and Larry Moss was a fellow student of mine. 169 00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:39,900 And he said, you must need the sky Murray rothbard. 170 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:43,600 He's an anarchist. I said why an anarchist? 171 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:47,300 That's no good. Remember I was a Randy and at 172 00:09:47,300 --> 00:09:51,500 the time at least in terms of limited government, but finally, 173 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:55,100 Larry and his roommate, the jury wall has prevailed upon me to 174 00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:59,000 meet Marie and I met Marie and Marie converted me to 175 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,300 anarcho-capitalism in about 10 minutes. 176 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:04,600 He said, you know, you understand why the post office 177 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:09,300 and and public sanitation is no good because Because of profit 178 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:12,000 and loss considerations that, I just mentioned a, why can't we 179 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,900 apply two armies courts and police and that was like the 180 00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:19,300 light bulb that little over my head and then I became a 181 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:24,900 follower Murray rothbard and my big complaint about Marie was 182 00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:27,600 stomach cramps. He was so funny. 183 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,500 He just kept you laughing and laughing and laughing an hour 184 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:33,700 after hour. You got stomach cramps. 185 00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:37,100 Now that must have been 10 12, 15 people in Murray's, living 186 00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:38,200 room. Out. 187 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:44,500 And obviously I couldn't hog up Marie because we had a share him 188 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:48,400 among 15. People Walter grinder was my 189 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,900 mentor. He sort of took me aside and he 190 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:56,100 was part of the Murray rothbard living room gang and I Walter 191 00:10:56,100 --> 00:11:02,700 took me aside and What's the word worn off my rough edges? 192 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,100 He really got me into Austrian economics. 193 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:12,300 He was a friend of mine for many years and I have a great debt to 194 00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:17,700 him for, you know, helping me to understand the finer points of 195 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:21,100 the Roth party. And just most important thing 196 00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:29,300 you learned from Henry hazlitt. Well, this business of, you 197 00:11:29,300 --> 00:11:35,100 know, we have to look at things not just in the short run, but 198 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:40,000 in the long run, we have to look at things, not on, not the 199 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,700 effect, not only on one person that on everyone Atlas Shrugged 200 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:50,200 now, he did great stuff on his book on Cannes, but that came 201 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,900 later. My conversion was not. 202 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,900 Not his attack on Cannes. My conversion was economics in 203 00:11:56,900 --> 00:12:00,400 one lesson. So and I still use that in my 204 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,100 intro courses. I use Henry hazlitt economics in 205 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:07,400 one lesson and I used to use Atlas Shrugged to. 206 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,300 But my students rebelled, you know, that they said, what this 207 00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:13,300 1,200 Pages, we're not going to read this. 208 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,200 So at least I have the hazlitt, which is, you know, I don't know 209 00:12:17,208 --> 00:12:20,800 how many pages, 100 120 pages, so I can get away with that 210 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:26,000 because I couldn't get away with Sure, Henry hazlitt, I think 211 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,900 mises fun said that Henry hazlitt. 212 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:30,800 I forget who it was. Maybe Murray said this that 213 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:36,200 Henry has a, was The Economist who could write best most 214 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,300 clearly. And I mean, he was only a 215 00:12:39,308 --> 00:12:42,000 journalist. He wasn't a PhD in economics. 216 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,300 But, you know, I don't really care about credentials like 217 00:12:44,300 --> 00:12:46,200 that. He was brilliant that he was 218 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,900 magnificent. Just applying, you know, this 219 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,800 inside to rent control minimum wage from trade. 220 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:59,200 And unemployment Henry hazlitt is one of the key figures in the 221 00:12:59,208 --> 00:13:02,000 libertarian movement. Benjamin Klein. 222 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,800 And just say that I dedicate the defending the indefensible to 223 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,300 him to hide your HEAP. He was one of the names in the 224 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:15,300 introduction. Then Klein was my college 225 00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:22,400 roommate undergraduate and then came with me to some of the Ian 226 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:28,500 Rand Nathaniel Branden meetings, and we were converted together. 227 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:34,500 Ben had an illustrious career as a Professor of Economics at the 228 00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:39,300 very prestigious UCLA University of California at Los Angeles. 229 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:44,000 Ben was a stalwart libertarian, but I never could convert them 230 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,500 to Austrian ISM. He was a mainstreamer, which is 231 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:48,900 okay. I mean if you have to be a 232 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:53,300 mainstream or at least be a Libertarian and he was he made 233 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,800 important contributions and you know, he was my college 234 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,400 roommate. So, you know, I have to tell you 235 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:00,900 a story about my college roommates. 236 00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:04,300 My third roommate was no fun. You know, a lot of times, I 237 00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:08,100 can't think of a word and I'm now 80 years old and I'm 238 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:09,600 wondering, what am I getting senile? 239 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,200 Well, I remember Ben and Nell and we would have some rule that 240 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,600 bike from 7 to 10. Nobody should go into anyone's 241 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,600 room because, you know, that's study time except if you 242 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,700 couldn't think of a word. And so, I'm comforted by the 243 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:29,500 fact that if I was seeing, if I'm now seeing all this, I can't 244 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:32,100 think of a word I would see. Now then when I was, you know, 245 00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:38,300 20 or E1 or 22 Ben and I have stayed in such as have Bernie 246 00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:40,600 Sanders. And I I mentioned that Bernie 247 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:41,900 Sanders and I went to high school. 248 00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:45,000 Together. We don't stay in touch as much 249 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,600 but every five or ten years. We we link up and say hello to 250 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,900 each other. I have to tell him I Bernie 251 00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:57,100 Sanders joke. Bernie Sanders is well known for 252 00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:00,600 not running away from anything. He never ran away from the 253 00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:03,100 socialism. Many years ago before socialism 254 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:08,200 was as popular as it is now mainly due to his efforts or 255 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,300 among other people. He doesn't even run away from 256 00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:16,400 letting convicts vote. Not ex-convicts convicts people 257 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,000 in jail voting but there's one person he ran away from. 258 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,500 And that's me. Why? 259 00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:24,100 Because we're on the track team. Together and he was one of the 260 00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:27,200 best runners in the whole city and I was a mediocre Runner and 261 00:15:27,208 --> 00:15:29,000 we start off with the same starting line. 262 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,500 And then he ran away from me. I could see the rear end of him 263 00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:36,200 disappearing around the track. So Bernie Sanders ran away from 264 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,700 me that that's my Bernie Sanders joke, I think. 265 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:43,100 Did he also run away from Jan Health failed in his interview 266 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:44,300 with him. Do you? 267 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:45,900 What do you remember seeing that? 268 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,300 No, I didn't know that Jen hell felled the interviewed? 269 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:52,000 Bernie the Jan how felled interviewed. 270 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:54,300 What's her name? Policy. 271 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,100 Hello. See ya, beautiful interview. 272 00:15:57,100 --> 00:16:01,300 Magnificent interview, and he was saying something. 273 00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:04,100 Like, what are the minimum wage? You know, you love the minimum 274 00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:05,700 wage. Well, how about do you have 275 00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:10,900 interns? And she said, sure, I have 276 00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:13,000 insurance and then he said, well, you know, how much do you 277 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,000 pay them order? Nothing is old, doesn't that 278 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,400 violate the minimum wage? You know what she said. 279 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,900 She's gonna call the cops on him. 280 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,000 Amazing. Jen health. 281 00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:26,600 Child is a randian. I once had a debate with him 282 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,900 over anarchism versus limited government to our debate and 283 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,200 hopefully one day, we'll have another one. 284 00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:37,800 A very nice guy for a Randy and I mean, you know, Randy has two 285 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,800 little cultish, but what the heck? 286 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,800 But he's one of the good people as far as I'm concerned. 287 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,900 Next person. Jerry wallows. 288 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,900 Well, during Willows was the guy who part he was Larry Moss, has 289 00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:57,600 a roommate and Larry was unable to get me to meet Marie because 290 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,500 Mary was an anarchist and Atticus is anathema. 291 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:04,500 The, you know, they're chaos, you know, we'll have chaos if we 292 00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:06,599 don't have government, I don't believe that. 293 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,500 But that was my view then, and it was jury wallows. 294 00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:16,000 Who ganged up with me again, up against me with Larry Moss. 295 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,900 They were roommates. And Jerry also took me under his 296 00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:21,599 wing sort of like Walter grinder. 297 00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:26,000 Unfortunately, Jerry while I sort of dropped out of the 298 00:17:26,008 --> 00:17:30,000 libertarian movement, the maybe after about five or eight years 299 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:35,100 that I knew him Jerry and I and Walter grinder were sort of 300 00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:37,100 buddies and we hung around together. 301 00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:42,000 So I would say Walter grinder. Was my main Mentor in the 302 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,600 rothbard camp and Jerry walls, was my second most important 303 00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:49,700 mentor and it was he that Rio to be introduced to Murray 304 00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:53,400 rothbard, so I have a great that to Jerry walls as well. 305 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,000 So you mentioned rothbard briefly, but at the end you say 306 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,800 and especially you dedicate this to Murray rothbard. 307 00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:04,700 Is there anything else that you would like people to know about? 308 00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:07,600 If they're only Vaguely Familiar with rothbard's work? 309 00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:11,500 Well Murray rothbard is Miss the libertarian. 310 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,100 Very wrong chord is the one who combined left wing and right 311 00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:20,700 wing and foreign policy Murray rothbard. 312 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,700 I mean we live in turns on left-wing on personal liberties. 313 00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:29,400 We want to legalize drugs legalized prostitution is 314 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,600 legalized. Gambling legalized pornography 315 00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:34,000 doesn't mean we like it, we can detest it. 316 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,800 But we distinguish between vices and crimes and Marie was solid 317 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,300 on. On and then he was solid on on 318 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:44,600 economics obviously. Yeah, I mean, he was, I think 319 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,900 the second greatest Economist who ever lived after after mises 320 00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:51,100 and sometimes I think he was the first best Economist who ever 321 00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:54,600 lived. And a lot of people thought 322 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,200 Murray was inconsistent because on the one hand, he sort of left 323 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,300 their shot on the one hand. He's rightish. 324 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,900 And then on foreign policy, he was against imperialism which 325 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,800 you know, everyone who favored free enterprise like Ian ran was 326 00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:10,600 in favor of a U.s. Number one, we got to kick 327 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,900 everyone's but make sure they're like us and Marie said, you 328 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:18,200 know, hold on a minute. It's not the role of the 329 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,000 government if there's any role which is not it's not the role 330 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,600 of government, the US government to throw its weight around the 331 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,200 world. So Marie combined libertarian 332 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,800 foreign policy with attorney economics and libertarian 333 00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:35,800 personal Liberties. And I mean, his book man, 334 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,600 economy and state is right up there with mrs. 335 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,200 Human Action as the two greatest books ever in economics. 336 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,800 A lot of my career has been spent standing on the shoulders 337 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,300 of Marie. I mean, he in, Atlas Shrugged, 338 00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:52,700 he wrote one line of but about blackmail. 339 00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:58,300 And I must have I wrote maybe 15 or 20 articles on blackmail and 340 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,500 then I put it all into a book on blackmail. 341 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:06,500 It all came from re-injury to Chile. 342 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,400 Once wrote a book, it all began with Ian Rand or it all started 343 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,600 with Ian. Ran for me. 344 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,400 It all started with Murray rothbard Iranians were sort of 345 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,100 the minor leagues. Murray rothbard was the major 346 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:24,100 leagues. I mean, And if you don't, you 347 00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:28,500 know, what's his name, who ran for a little bitter and party, 348 00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:32,800 Gary Johnson, Gary Johnson. Never heard him, Mary rothbart. 349 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:33,900 Yeah. I heard that. 350 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,800 Can you imagine you running for the lp? 351 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,600 And you never heard of Murray rothbard? 352 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,300 I mean, Murray rothbard. Is this the libertarian and not 353 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:46,500 only miss the libertarian, but Mr. Austrian Economist Murray 354 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:50,300 rothbard is magnificent. If you want to have an 355 00:20:50,300 --> 00:20:54,700 introduction to libertarianism, Read for New Liberty, in the 356 00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:58,200 ethics of Liberty. His two major pieces. 357 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,200 And if you want to learn about Austrian economics, man, economy 358 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:07,000 and state is the way to go Nori. Rothbard is my man, and I'm 359 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,800 honored that I was friends with him, from nineteen sixty three 360 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,600 or four until his untimely passing. 361 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:19,900 When he was 68 years old. I think it was 1995 when he 362 00:21:19,900 --> 00:21:24,500 passed away Murray rothbard. Bored, I just can't say enough 363 00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:28,000 about him. I owe my career to him. 364 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,300 I'm honored in several ways one time. 365 00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:35,900 He couldn't teach his class at the Brooklyn Polytechnic and he 366 00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:38,900 asked me to substitute for him. And I think I'm the only 367 00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:42,000 co-author of Murray's and I co-authored a lot with one 368 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,000 people, but I'm one of my co-authors is Marie and I think 369 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,400 I'm his only co-author. So I'm very proud of that. 370 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,900 That was the when I was his associate. 371 00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:57,400 Associate editor for the Journal of libertarian studies. 372 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,400 I think it was, we wrote together some sort of opening 373 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,700 Salvo for the JLS. Wow. 374 00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:09,100 How about in 1981? You wrote a paper with Walter E. 375 00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:12,300 Williams, titled male-female, earnings differentials a 376 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:16,000 critical reprisal. What is Walter Williams? 377 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,800 Is greatest contribution to economics. 378 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:25,800 Well, Walter, unfortunately just the late Walter Williams who 379 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,600 just passed away this year, you know, if you didn't know he was 380 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,600 black, you wouldn't appreciate him as much. 381 00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:39,800 Black people who are Scott, black Scholars, who are free 382 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,600 enterprise. They're called Oreo cookies. 383 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,900 Because, you know, the idea is, if you're black, you have to be 384 00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:48,400 a socialist like a Biden. Once told a black man that if 385 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,800 you don't vote for me, you're really not. 386 00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:57,400 Black and the guy was black. I mean, this is grotesque Walter 387 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,800 Williams wrote this book, The State against blacks very 388 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,900 similar to another guy. Forget his name. 389 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,600 He writes for the Wall Street Journal. 390 00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:09,300 Something stop, please. Stop. 391 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,100 Helping us. I forget the guys name, another 392 00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:13,500 Jason Riley. That's it. 393 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:15,700 Jason Riley. So yeah, I'm losing names. 394 00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:18,500 I couldn't think of Jason Riley. Who's a really good? 395 00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:22,200 Good. What's the word a substitute for 396 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,100 Walter Williams or a good follower of Walter lands? 397 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,000 Well, Walter wrote this book, The State against blacks and 398 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,600 they rode on and on about how the state screws up black people 399 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,300 with all sorts of interventions welfare, minimum wage and you 400 00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:45,600 know, regulations and licenses and everything like that, but 401 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,300 for a while I was working in Canada, and I was having a 402 00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:52,000 competition between Walter. Me me, against Walter Williams 403 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,600 and Thomas, Soul. Thomas all was sort of want to 404 00:23:56,608 --> 00:23:59,000 lay in his mentor. Just the way Murray rothbard was 405 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,300 my mentor. And what we were trying to do is 406 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:08,600 find out the highest ratio of female to male incomes because 407 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,200 you know, there's this what he called a male-female wage Gap. 408 00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:17,300 For every dollar that a man earns a woman earns. 409 00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:21,900 Oh something like 70 or 80 cents and the gap of 20 or 30 percent 410 00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:27,800 is seen as sexism. And what we were trying to do is 411 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:33,500 say that this is due to the fact that all three of us, I was I 412 00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:35,300 was in Canada. So I was getting Canadian 413 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:37,200 statistics. They were in the u.s. 414 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,800 That were getting u.s. Statistics. 415 00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:41,700 And what we're trying to do is show that if you would never 416 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:47,800 married, The Gap disappeared and sometimes the Gap reversed. 417 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,400 So we were, we were in competition with each other to 418 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:57,300 find the highest female to male wage ratio or income ratio for 419 00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,800 the never married. See the idea is that if you're 420 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:05,300 married and the woman does 3/4 or 4/5, or nine-tenths of the 421 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:08,600 cooking and cleaning and childcare and shopping, and 422 00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:12,000 everything else. Well, even if they have the same 423 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,700 ability and And usually they do on average. 424 00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:17,600 They're not going to be able to make as much money because 425 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,100 they're busy, taking care of the family. 426 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,400 So what we did is we compared a never married. 427 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,500 It's not widowed not divorce, not separated, not nothing. 428 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:33,600 And I think I think I won. I got 10. 9.8 mainly women are 429 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,500 in the 10% more than men for the unmarried. 430 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,000 I'm not sure if I beat them, but it was a friendly competition. 431 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,000 And then I co-authored honor that I I wanted an article with 432 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,600 Walter Williams. Again. 433 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,500 I don't think he co-authored too many things either, and maybe 434 00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:51,700 I'm his only co-author. I'm not sure about that, but I'm 435 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:55,300 very, very honored that I can say that I'm a co-author Walter 436 00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:57,800 Williams. Walter Williams is magnificent. 437 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,300 He's not a Libertarian. He's sort of a conservative. 438 00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:04,800 He's a little weak on foreign policy, but on economics, he's 439 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,500 not an Austrian either. But what the heck? 440 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,500 He is a magnificent Economist and courageous. 441 00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:14,200 I mean, for a while. White person to say, some of the 442 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,400 things is one thing for a black person to say some of these 443 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,800 things. It's very, very courageous 444 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,500 because of people had this idea that all blacks have to be 445 00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:25,300 socialists. And if there's one thing about 446 00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:28,000 Walter Williams, it's that he's not a socialist. 447 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,800 What was the industry where women were earning more than 448 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,400 men? Because when you look at like 449 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:41,000 the top 10 earnings of a super models in the world, all top 10 450 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,600 are women. I was curious. 451 00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:46,000 A robe. What you came up with in your 452 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,100 research? No, it wasn't industry. 453 00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:53,700 It was people. Oh, okay, obviously women make 454 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:56,700 more money as models. They're all male models, but 455 00:26:56,700 --> 00:27:00,700 they don't make quite as much money as as female models. 456 00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:04,400 I think it's reverse for movie stars. 457 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,100 I'm not sure if singers certainly would models, but my 458 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:12,600 research didn't go by industry went by all women in. 459 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,400 Canada. Who never married and now what's 460 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,400 the? What's the wage ratio? 461 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,800 I was at the Fraser Institute and you see what they, what the 462 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,200 census did was? They took single versus married, 463 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,500 but we didn't want single versus married because they're a single 464 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:32,700 people who are widowed divorced their single now, but they've 465 00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:34,700 been touched by the institution of marriage. 466 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,900 So we had to pay be Canadian what he called the statistical 467 00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:43,900 people extra money so that they would get The never married 468 00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:45,300 stuff. They never thought to do that 469 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,400 and they were sort of resistant about doing it because it would 470 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:56,600 it would show the major thesis. That was incorrect. 471 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,700 And most important thing you learned from Ludwig, von mises. 472 00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:11,400 Well, Human Action. Oh, I have to tell you my living 473 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,700 Von mises story. I want shook his hand and I 474 00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:18,500 never washed it. So if you shake my hand you 475 00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:20,400 Channel mises my hands a little dirty. 476 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,700 But what the heck? And I shook mrs. 477 00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:25,300 Hand. And while I'm bragging, I once 478 00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:30,600 beat hyack in chess, what did I learn from? 479 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,500 These has, what I learned from nieces, was Human Action, you 480 00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:35,400 know? Purposeful. 481 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:42,200 A synthetic, a priori statements that the idea that there are 482 00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:52,400 economic laws that you know, that cat that are not testable 483 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:57,200 and on a particularly necessarily true and for that, 484 00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:59,900 he was considered a compass then. 485 00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:03,300 Obviously the Austrian business cycle Theory, pretty much 486 00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:08,000 started with him. And and, and also the Socialist 487 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,200 calculation debate I think would be a very important thing that 488 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,600 we learned from these. Has he got into it with langa 489 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:20,300 and some of these other people. I mean this guy he came to the 490 00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:23,900 US when he was 61 and was fleeing the Nazis. 491 00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:26,800 It was in, what was it? Switzerland? 492 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,000 It was in Austria and he was one step ahead of Hitler and he came 493 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,700 over here and an English is a second language, or third 494 00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:37,300 language was honey. Out of his native language and 495 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:38,800 sort of like online ran. Then. 496 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,900 I don't know. He, he's either the first or the 497 00:29:42,900 --> 00:29:47,900 second best Economist who ever wrote in my view and a lot of 498 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,900 what I have in economics comes from those two guys. 499 00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:55,700 And just one more point on mises. 500 00:29:55,700 --> 00:30:00,300 Why is it so important to focus on Human Action as opposed to 501 00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:04,100 measuring gross domestic product and the Dow Jones Industrial 502 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:06,600 Average. Well, those are important to, 503 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,800 you know, you don't want to lose sight of other things just 504 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,400 because he's Justin specialize in them, but these has 505 00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:18,400 specialized in giving us insights about the human action 506 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:25,700 and purposeful Behavior. And the idea that Again, you 507 00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:30,100 bought that shirt for 10 bucks. Let's say you necessarily gain, 508 00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:35,600 because if you didn't value it more than ten bucks. 509 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,400 You wouldn't have bought it now. It might be that you don't even 510 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,300 like the shirt. But the reason you bought it 511 00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:42,900 was, you felt sorry for the guy selling you the shirt or maybe 512 00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:45,400 it was a gal who's selling the shirt and wanted a date with us. 513 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,800 He bought the shirt. We don't know why you gain, All 514 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,500 we know is that when you plunk 10 bucks down on the barrel head 515 00:30:53,500 --> 00:30:55,200 for that trick. There was something about that 516 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,300 shirt that made you better off ex-ante now exposed. 517 00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:03,800 You might regret it, you know, you don't always happy with your 518 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,500 purchase and the same thing for the guy who sold to the shirt. 519 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,200 He probably had hundreds of them and he was willing to heed 520 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,900 probably value to that a buck or maybe - years was, you know, had 521 00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:18,600 so much inventory. And, and he also gained you get 522 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,400 this from these has so clearly, And so beautifully and other 523 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,700 economists have had that too but they sort of got it from these 524 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:32,400 has. So I would say, Atlas not a 525 00:31:32,408 --> 00:31:36,500 mature, Human Action is a magnificent book. 526 00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:40,400 I have a seminar at Loyola University and the first book, 527 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,000 we discuss some Human Action and I call it the Human Action 528 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000 seminar, even though now that I started this 20 years ago, but 529 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,000 honoring these as human Action by calling at the Human Action 530 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,800 seminar. And right now, we're on Hans 531 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,500 Hoppy's book. The God, That Failed democracy, 532 00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:58,600 The God That Failed. But we've done many, many other 533 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,600 books in 20 years, but that was the first book. 534 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,700 And that's that's the name of this seminar that I run. 535 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,500 I want to thank everyone for watching the libertarian 536 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:10,800 Institute and Keith Knight. Don't tread on anyone. 537 00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:12,600 Dr. Block. Thank you so much for your time. 538 00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:17,200 You're very welcome, and it was a delight and thanks for those 539 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,200 wonderful questions.