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Mr. Kinsella, what is 
libertarianism? 

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All right. 
Yeah, so there are different 

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ways of answering that question 
and I can give the most, I think

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accurate precise answer from my 
point of view. 

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The conventional answer would be
something like we are the 

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political philosophy that 
opposes aggression or the 

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initiation of force, but I 
really believe that aggression 

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is a dependent concept, it what 
aggression is depends upon what 

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property rights there are and 
I'll prop all your individual 

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rights, all human rights or 
property rights. 

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So what I would say is 
libertarianism, is a political 

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philosophy. 
It's one among many. 

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There are other competing types.
There's theocracy and 

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dictatorship, and democracy, and
monarchy, and and other forms. 

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Every one of these systems has a
certain way of determining the 

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assignment of property rights. 
So it's not like we're the only 

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system that believes in property
rights is Is that every system 

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believes in property rights, but
we have a unique view on how 

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property rights should be 
determined. 

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So, I would say that almost 
every legal system to a degree 

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follows, the libertarian view of
property rights, which is that 

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when you want to determine who 
the owner of a resource is you 

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ask two questions. 
The first is who had it first, 

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which is called lucky and 
homesteading, or original 

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appropriation. 
And you ask did the Who got it 

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from, who by contract, who got 
it from a previous owner by 

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contract. 
So, basically, those two 

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principles, first, use and 
contract, contractual title, 

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transfer are usually sufficient 
to answer the question who owns 

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this resource, when there's a 
dispute over it and most systems

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have to recognize those 
principles to some degree. 

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Otherwise Society wouldn't be 
able to exist because people 

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need to be able to actually use 
resources with some degree of 

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certainty and fear from 
predation by others, for society

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to, to emerge and Survive, but 
libertarianism is the only one 

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that consistently adheres to 
those two principles. 

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So that's what I would say. 
Libertarianism is it's the only 

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political philosophy that 
consistently abides by the first

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use and the contractual title 
transfer principles in 

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determining property rights. 
Got it. 

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So with that, let's go to your 
libertarian litmus test. 

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You have nine things that you 
use to see generally whether or 

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not you consider someone to be a
solid libertarian. 

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They are ranked roughly in order
of importance. 

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Number one is intellectual 
property. 

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What is the correct position? 
The correct libertarian position

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on intellectual property? 
Well, let me say that post. 

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I won't say it was a joke, but I
was what I was trying to do was 

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listen. 
Number one, list of the big 

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things, we should be concerned 
about and most of these most 

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Libertarians are concerned about
war and the government, 

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schooling and things like that. 
And I was doing that number one 

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to show that we need to include 
in also property on this list. 

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And then I wanted to rank them 
in order of sort of my, my 

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thoughts about the priority or 
importance of them. 

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Although, to be honest, almost 
any one of them you could argue 

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is most important one. 
Like, if you could only get rid 

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of one first, You could argue, 
we should get rid of taxes. 

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First, You could argue, we 
should get Rid of the government

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schools, first or the drug war. 
First, you know, or IP. 

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So there's Arguments for each. 
These are not bright things as 

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for a litmus test. 
What I was I was kind of joking 

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that you can't be a good 
libertarian. 

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If you deviate on too many of 
these and a couple of them are 

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just like non-negotiable like 
the drug war. 

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I just--there's. 
No. 

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Good argument for the drug war 
is such an obvious evil. 

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Look, I'll concede to let men 
orcas in under our tent, like a 

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people who believe, in some 
minor and little bit of I don't 

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think they're consistent 
Libertarians, but I'll Grant the

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term libertarianism would could 
be extended to cover them. 

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Okay, or if you believe in the 
occasional War for self-defense,

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you know, I can see that but not
the drug war and I also think IP

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should be put in that category 
because unlike all the others, 

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like you could come up with an 
argument for government schools 

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or taxation or even welfare, you
know, but you really can't come 

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up with an argument for the drug
war or for intellectual 

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property. 
There are no good Arguments for 

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it. 
And the other thing with IP is 

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that unlike all the others were 
even a supporter of Taxation 

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would be grudgingly conceded 
that, we need it, but he views 

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it as a necessary evil. 
Like ideally we would have a 

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society without it, but he just 
thinks one. 

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Fortunately we have to have a 
little bit of it, but they least

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recognize that as an evil or the
same thing with war. 

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Right, but with IP, it's called 
intellectual property. 

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So it's classified as a type of 
property, right? 

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And we're in favor of property 
rights. 

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And so you think of intellectual
property is not a deviation from

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ideal, but like as a natural 
part of the free market, and 

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that's the mistake. 
That's why it's Insidious. 

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And that's why it has so much 
influence in society that we 

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don't recognize. 
I mean, it's really pervasive 

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how many types of this mentality
of owning ideas, right? 

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The idea that copying what 
someone does is stealing is 

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permeates all of our society, 
so, Is very Insidious and also 

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the patent system itself. 
Does a lot of damage to the 

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human race that I think is not 
appreciated. 

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That's one reason. 
I have it near the top of my 

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list. 
Yeah, one of the things that 

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convinced me about IP is one 
rejection of the labor theory of

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value by both Karl Marx and Adam
Smith and the idea that your use

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doesn't exclude mine. 
So if I have a car and you steal

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my car, well, I no longer have 
the car and I was the rightful. 

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But if I have a car and you look
at it and then just copy it or 

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even if you just like I Dream of
Jeannie, just copy it, you know,

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but by thinking about it, well, 
my use is not excluded. 

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So that that for me was just so 
mind-blowing. 

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Could you give us a brief? 
I know you have a long mises 

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course on the history of Ip. 
How was this idea started that 

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this concept started that you 
could own ideas and the state. 

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Would pick some people to have a
monopoly over the execution of 

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some ideas that inflicted on the
actual tangible property rights 

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of everyone else. 
Well, I think that what happened

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was the practice behind it 
arose, for various reasons, 

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which I can summarize and then 
later a theoretical edifice 

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arose to justify it. 
Right? 

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So it's not like the practice of
granting patents and copyrights 

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are merged because people 
thought We have a natural rights

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lockean system and we really 
need to have the law do as good.

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A job as possible at protecting 
near Anarchist libertarian 

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society. 
And and we've theoretically 

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deduced it intellectual property
is part of that. 

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So we really need to add these 
laws to our legal system. 

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It wasn't of course wasn't like 
that. 

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What happened was you had 
basically a private law system 

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emerged naturally in the Roman 
law and in the cotton the common

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law in England over the last 
couple thousand years. 

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With some, with some deviances 
from, which are largely 

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libertarian, by the way, because
they protect property rights. 

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They protect the the, they 
prohibit aggression, crime, and 

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torts and they protect property 
rights and they respect 

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contracts. 
So, it's basically libertarian, 

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what emerged naturally in a 
decentralized fashion in the 

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Roman law system, and then in 
the common law system in the 

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courts, of course, you had 
Emperors and legislators and 

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parliament's. 
Who on occasion would come in 

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and they would legislate in 
derogation from the common law 

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rules, you know, they would 
impose taxation. 

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They would pass special 
statutes, that would take 

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property from its owner, give it
to the king or give it to 

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someone else, but by and large 
the systems we're good in 

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private, but because the 
monarchs had power, of course, 

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they would, they would abuse 
their power and they would use 

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it for their benefit. 
So one thing they would do is 

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they would they would Grant 
exclusive Monopoly. 

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To their to their Court 
favorites, in exchange for 

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favors. 
So they would give a guy, the 

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only the Monopoly to be the only
guy in a certain region who 

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could sell a given product or 
manufacturer or sell a given 

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product or exported or imported 
something like that. 

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Now, of course, that that allows
him to make Monopoly profits and

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exchange, he would become loyal 
to the, to the king, he would 

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report on tax Dodgers and his 
area, things like that. 

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So it was one of these things 
that practice got out of hand 

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because there were So many 
monopolies being granted, and 

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they were called patents, 
letters patent, because patent 

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is Latin word. 
Meaning potential a means open. 

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So it was like an open letter to
the world that the bearer could 

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show everyone. 
Hey the king says, I'm the only 

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guy who can do this, right? 
I mean, lots of the lots of the 

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Conquering of the territory in 
the new world was done under a 

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patent Grant from the King 
saying, oh, if you get to 

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America first, I'm giving you a 
patent that you get to control 

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this area, something like that. 
So, It rained in this practice 

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because it was getting out of 
hand in the statute of 

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monopolies in 1623. 
But they so they basically 

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limited the right of the king to
Grant these monopolies, but the 

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statute of monopolies says, but 
you can keep doing it in the 

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case of inventions, right? 
So that's where patents patents 

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came from the granting of 
monopolies by the government to 

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protect people from competition.
And that's still what they do. 

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So, it's got nothing to do with 
the free market. 

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Now copyright emerged because 
originally it was hard to copy 

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books before the printing press 
and so you would have these 

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Church Controlled scribes, who 
would copy things that they but 

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only copied with the church and 
the government gave them 

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permission to copy. 
So they could control what 

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printed material got in the 
hands of the public with the 

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printing, press emerged, that, 
that, that Monopoly was in 

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through was threatened. 
And so, the first thing they 

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did, the government did was 
start the stationers company. 

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Which is about a hundred year 
monopolistic Guild, which we had

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the Monopoly on printing books. 
And when the Monopoly on that 

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expired, by then a new industry 
at emerged of publishing 

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companies, who would publish 
books, through the stationers 

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company of approved, works by 
authors. 

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And they Lobby parliament in the
parliament, enacted, the statute

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of Anne and 1709, which 
basically set the stage for 

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modern copyright. 
Right. 

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So copyright emerged from 
censorship and patents emerged 

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from restriction of competition 
and restriction of property 

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rights. 
That's how they came about 

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actually and then, and then and 
then later when in the 1800's in

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the US and in Europe, when the 
free market, when the modern 

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Industrial Revolution, got going
and well, started expanding and 

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Technology sort of being 
developed at a high Pace. 

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A lot of free market economy, 
economic started emerging to, 

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and a lot of free market 
Economist started. 

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Why are the government's 
granting these monopolies? 

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These patents and copyrights? 
And they started coming up with 

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an economic case against it? 
Okay, and the 1800s. 

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So there was growing pressure to
get rid of patent and copyright 

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because everyone started 
recognizing these were 

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Antiquated. 
Practice is rooted in censorship

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and mercantilism. 
So in response to that the 

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entrenched interests that had 
grown up in the meantime, that 

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is the technology and the in the
industry companies that were 

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reliant on their patent. 
Napoli's and the Publishers who 

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had relied now become Reliant 
upon copyright. 

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They started, they came up with 
this propaganda campaign to 

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Lobby, to keep the patent and 
copyright law in place. 

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And what they said was, it's not
a monopoly privilege, granted by

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the government. 
It's actually a property, right?

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And everyone said, well, what do
you mean? 

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It's a property, right? 
Because it expires in 17 years 

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and property rights usually are 
natural. 

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They don't require the 
government to Grant by 

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legislation and they don't 
usually In 17 years were 14 

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years. 
And so the response was well, 

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it's a special type of property.
It's, you know, it comes from 

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the creation of the mind. 
This where the labor theory of 

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value comes in. 
It comes from the creation of 

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the mind. 
So it's intellectual property. 

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So that's where the, that's how 
the argument came up with. 

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And that's where the concept of 
IP came, IP came was invented as

227
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a concept to justify a 
mercantilist in a censorship 

228
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practice, which was coming under
intellectual assault. 

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Wow, all right, the second item 
in the libertarian litmus test 

230
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,600
is Central Banking and the 
Federal Reserve, isn't it funny?

231
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,900
The first two things are State 
monopolies and were always, you 

232
00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:04,800
know, accused of supporting 
monopolies by supporting the 

233
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,000
free market. 
What is the correct? 

234
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,200
What is the correct position on 
Central Banking and why? 

235
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,700
Yeah, that would have put 
taxation first because spending 

236
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is what gives the government its
ability to do. 

237
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,300
List, but, you know, if you 
think about the u.s. 

238
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Right now, it's the most 
powerful government in world 

239
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history and it spends way more 
than it taxes. 

240
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So obviously taxing is not what 
gives it the ability to spend or

241
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,800
it's not a limit on its spending
because of the Federal Reserve, 

242
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:35,600
right? 
I believe. 

243
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,500
So, the Federal Reserve allows 
it to print money that it 

244
00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:41,500
doesn't have in effect by 
complicated mechanisms, but 

245
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that's in effect, what it does. 
So if the Federal Reserve didn't

246
00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:49,300
exist number one you would have 
So many problems solved 

247
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governments would be way smaller
because they couldn't spend as 

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much the business cycle wouldn't
be as severe as it is, or maybe 

249
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it wouldn't exist at all, which 
causes unemployment and reduces 

250
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,900
productivity because of the 
waste caused by the business 

251
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:06,400
cycle because the Ballon 
vestment we wouldn't have 

252
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,900
inflation of the money supply. 
So people would have lots of 

253
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habits and characteristics in 
you know time preference will be

254
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,100
lower productivity would be 
higher, people would save more. 

255
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:19,000
They wouldn't Be spendthrifts as
much. 

256
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,800
They wouldn't have to put their 
money into into crazy schemes 

257
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,800
like they do now, just to keep 
from losing their money to 

258
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:29,500
inflation erosion. 
They just keep your money in 

259
00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:31,900
money because it would, it 
would, it would accumulate value

260
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:33,900
every year because they're be 
price deflation. 

261
00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:36,600
So, you would need to go to the 
stock market. 

262
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:37,900
If you didn't know what you were
doing. 

263
00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:42,200
You would need to invest in, you
know, your cousin's, crazy 

264
00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:46,700
business scheme or whatever. 
And you wouldn't just go gamble.

265
00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:48,000
Your money away in Las Vegas. 
Vegas. 

266
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,700
Because why not? 
Because it's going to be eroded 

267
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:51,900
away by inflation in a few 
years. 

268
00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:54,600
Anyway, so it would change the 
character of the people in every

269
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,000
way. 
So I that's why I think the 

270
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,300
Federal Reserve is so important.
So basically and the other thing

271
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:02,500
is you would have one world 
money. 

272
00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:05,600
Probably it would be 11 money 
across the entire world. 

273
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,600
Probably gold until Bitcoin 
might sir place it and that 

274
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,300
would give that would mean that 
you would have better 

275
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:16,700
International Trade, more 
certainty, you know, no more 

276
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:20,000
exchange rates and Fluctuating 
currencies, no more, practical 

277
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,600
currency exchange controls. 
Everything would just be so much

278
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,800
better. 
So, obviously the reason we have

279
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,700
it is because the government 
uses its Force to monopolize the

280
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:35,100
monetary and finance function. 
First by Owl, first, by 

281
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:38,400
basically, you know having banks
that are under government 

282
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,300
regulatory control, allowing me 
to issue Paper Tickets that 

283
00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:45,500
stand for gold and then 
gradually, they don't stand for 

284
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:47,500
gold. 
They become fractional Reserve. 

285
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,600
Kind of claims on gold or 
promises and then the, then the 

286
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,200
runs happen in the government 
backs, them up with it with 

287
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,300
insurance to prevent the runs 
that would naturally happen 

288
00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:02,200
under a fractional Reserve Ponzi
scheme, and then they get rid of

289
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,000
gold all together and it's just 
fiat currency now right? 

290
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,500
That the government can inflate 
it will. 

291
00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:09,600
So all those steps need to be 
reversed and basically, the FED 

292
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,000
needs to be abolished. 
Topic number three, taxation. 

293
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,900
What is the correct? 
Libertarian view on Taxation? 

294
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:19,900
And why? 
Well, I mean that's that's the 

295
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:23,200
in a way one of the easiest ones
on the list next to the drug war

296
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:26,700
and IP taxation is simply theft.
Right. 

297
00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:30,100
Taxation is when or it's more 
technically in a legal sense. 

298
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:32,700
It's extortion. 
The carbon doesn't usually come 

299
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:35,500
to your land and physically. 
Take your gold bars from you. 

300
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,200
What it does. 
Is it threatens you with with, 

301
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,300
with physical damage? 
If you don't comply, Why? 

302
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,400
So it points a gun at you and 
says hand over your goal to me 

303
00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:47,100
or I'm going to shoot you or put
you in jail, right? 

304
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:49,500
So it's extortion, really or 
coercion. 

305
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:52,100
But any in any case, it's a type
of theft. 

306
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,100
So taxation is simply theft. 
It's taking private property, 

307
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:59,100
naturally owned by the producer 
or the person who got it by 

308
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:01,300
contract. 
So I might own goal because I 

309
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:04,900
found it in the ground and I 
minded myself and I went to a 

310
00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:07,700
bank and I are meant and I paid 
them to minted into coins for 

311
00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:11,000
me, or I might own it because I 
performed a service. 

312
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,300
Someone or sold them a good and 
they paid me their coins that 

313
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:18,000
they owned in exchange. 
So I come to own those coins 

314
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,599
either by first use, or by 
contract, which is what I 

315
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,700
mentioned before, or they only 
two principles. 

316
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,500
By the way. 
There's a third subsidiary 

317
00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:27,700
principle, but I didn't want to 
get into it but it is his 

318
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:31,100
restitution. 
So if you commit a tort or a 

319
00:17:31,108 --> 00:17:36,100
crime and you harm, someone then
you owe them some recompense, 

320
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,600
some restitution, but you can 
think of that as like a 

321
00:17:39,608 --> 00:17:42,100
contract. 
So like in a Tracked, I obligate

322
00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:45,600
myself to pay you something. 
So the title transfers 

323
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,200
contractually, likewise if I 
harm someone, now, I've incurred

324
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,000
an obligation to give them some 
money to to compensate them for 

325
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,100
the damage, I did. 
So that's a third way. 

326
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:56,700
That people can come to own 
property. 

327
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,800
You can Own It by finding it. 
You can own it. 

328
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,300
If someone gives it to you by 
contract or you can own it, if 

329
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:04,300
they have to pay it to you 
because they hurt you, but those

330
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:08,600
are the three only ways. 
Number four, is the drug war. 

331
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:11,200
What is the libertarian position
on the drug War? 

332
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,500
And why? 
Well, so game that the basic 

333
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:17,200
libertarian position and 
property. 

334
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:21,300
And by that, I mean, we mean 
resources outside of your body. 

335
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:25,400
So those are owned when someone 
there, unowned it first, there 

336
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,600
in the state of nature and 
someone starts using them and 

337
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,100
they make them owned. 
Unlike those resources, the 

338
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:35,600
other type of resource that can 
be owned is the human body now. 

339
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:38,400
We are self owners to we own our
bodies. 

340
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,100
That is we own them, not because
we Homestead them but because we

341
00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:45,200
directly control them and we're 
you're the first one to directly

342
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,800
control that body. 
So it's a different type of 

343
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,600
argument. 
But basically the libertarian 

344
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,400
position has a special rule for 
prefer bodies. 

345
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,700
And in fact is the base rule 
that the other rules the other 

346
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:59,000
property rights are built upon 
because to go out the world and 

347
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,400
homestead land you have to own 
your body. 

348
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,000
First. 
You have to be an actor. 

349
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,700
You have to be a human being 
walking around you. 

350
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:08,300
Seeing in pain happening and 
possessing a body. 

351
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,600
So you own that body first and 
you own it because it's you 

352
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,300
basically. 
But whatever. 

353
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:16,100
The reason the point is you own 
your body. 

354
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,900
And what that means is you have 
the right to decide who gets to 

355
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:23,200
use your body. 
So you can grant permission for 

356
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,900
someone to use your body or you 
can deny them permission so you 

357
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:30,100
can include or exclude them. 
So I can, you know, I can 

358
00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:33,500
consent to some girl, giving me 
a kiss or I can tell her no. 

359
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:35,600
And if she kisses me after I 
say, yes. 

360
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,900
Yes, it's not aggression. 
But if she kissed me and I say, 

361
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:41,400
no, it's aggression, right? 
Using my body of the my 

362
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,700
permission or if I enter a ring 
in a boxing match and I someone 

363
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:48,300
punches me, I can send it to it.
It's not aggression. 

364
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:50,700
But if some guy walks up to me 
on the street and punches me 

365
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,700
it's aggression. 
So it all depends upon consent 

366
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:56,200
and consent matters because I'm 
the owner. 

367
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,700
So only the owner has the right 
to give consent. 

368
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,000
That's what it means to be the 
owners to have the right to 

369
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:06,500
Grant or deny consent. 
Now, the drug war basically 

370
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,900
treats my body is if the legal 
system or the group owns my body

371
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:14,600
because they're telling me I 
can't use my body to ingest 

372
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,700
certain drugs. 
And if I do, they're going to 

373
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:20,200
punish it and put my body in 
jail, or or put a bullet in my 

374
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,500
body's brain, right? 
So there, they are acting as the

375
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:26,000
owner of my body as if I'm their
slave. 

376
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,200
But slavery is totally 
incompatible with self 

377
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,700
ownership. 
Number five War. 

378
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,400
What is the correct libertarian 
position on war? 

379
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:42,000
Well, Libertarians, opposed, 
they don't we don't oppose force

380
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,200
and violence per se. 
We oppose aggression that is the

381
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,100
initiation of violence, which is
basically using someone else's 

382
00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:52,100
property without their consent, 
but we don't oppose self-defense

383
00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:56,200
or that is using Force against 
someone who is trying to or has 

384
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,700
already used your property 
without your consent. 

385
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:02,800
So self-defense is permissible. 
Although, there are some 

386
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,400
libertarian pacifists there. 
Welcome to that preference, but 

387
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:09,800
they don't have an argument that
it's a violation of rights to 

388
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,800
use force in self-defense. 
They might not like it, they 

389
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,100
might not think it's 
efficacious. 

390
00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:17,100
They might think pacifism is a 
better strategy, and I tend to 

391
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:20,100
agree with them in many cases, 
but it's not a violation of 

392
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:22,200
rights as some radical pacifist 
think. 

393
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,800
I think the radical pastors are 
actually not Libertarians 

394
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,800
because they effectively put 
aggressors and victims on the 

395
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,300
same on the same plane. 
Mmmmm, and that's wrong. 

396
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:33,500
They're not on the same plane. 
They're categorically, 

397
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:37,000
fundamentally different. 
But the problem with war is 

398
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,100
that, it's a fight between 
groups. 

399
00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:42,800
And you could characterize, like
one nation state versus another 

400
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,800
having a war or a fight. 
You could say, one is the 

401
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,000
aggressor in one is defending 
itself, but the problem is 

402
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,600
because the, even the defending 
Nation operates on a collective 

403
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,200
scale, it necessarily commits 
aggression in the act of 

404
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,300
Defending itself, because number
one, it has to hurt innocent 

405
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:02,200
third party. 
On the other side because you 

406
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,000
can't just kill the soldiers. 
And number two. 

407
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,200
It has to construct and tax 
people of among its own 

408
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,400
citizenry to fund and support 
the war. 

409
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,200
And that's an aggression against
the people that are conscripted 

410
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,100
because they're basically 
enslaved. 

411
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,300
And it's a aggression against 
the people who are taxed to 

412
00:22:20,308 --> 00:22:24,000
support the war because you're 
stealing their property to 

413
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,500
support the war. 
So any War would have to be 

414
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:30,200
totally voluntarily manned and 
supported. 

415
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:35,400
Financially and aimed only at 
combatants who are invading 

416
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,800
your, your your land. 
That would be the only just kind

417
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,700
of War. 
Number six, what is the 

418
00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:47,200
libertarian position on welfare?
Well, obviously, it's a welfare 

419
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,600
done by the government or the 
state is illegitimate because it

420
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,300
requires theft, right to have 
welfare. 

421
00:22:57,300 --> 00:23:01,300
You have to give property or 
resources to people who didn't 

422
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:04,800
earn it, or didn't find it and 
to give it to them, you have to 

423
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,700
have it to have it. 
You have to take it from someone

424
00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:09,100
else in the state, doesn't do 
anything productive so it can 

425
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:12,200
turn this resource. 
It has to take it by theft from 

426
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,000
people. 
So the big problem. 

427
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,800
If they're the primary problem 
is that it's it requires theft 

428
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,700
or taxation to fund it. 
The secondary problem is that 

429
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,600
the welfare has all kind of 
negative effects on the 

430
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,300
character of the, of the 
population and society and the 

431
00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:30,100
people that are the 
beneficiaries of it. 

432
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,000
It, you know, it induces 
indolence. 

433
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,900
It destroys cohesion and 
communities. 

434
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:38,800
It disrupts the family unit. 
It disrupts time, preference. 

435
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:43,600
It sets precedence for further 
government interventions. 

436
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,100
So, It's bad all the way around 
and it happens in many ways. 

437
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:51,700
It's not just naked wall for 
that's bad. 

438
00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:55,100
It's all types of welfare. 
So, you know, someone says there

439
00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:58,500
are firemen or there are 
policemen or their Congressman 

440
00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:01,200
so that their say they're 
employed and they work for a 

441
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,600
living but really they're 
basically getting welfare too 

442
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,000
because they're funded by tax 
dollars to just because they're 

443
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,200
running around the world 
performing certain motions. 

444
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000
In order to get my tax dollars 
doesn't mean they're not well. 

445
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,500
Parasites too. 
Now. 

446
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:18,500
I'm gonna make the fire. 
I would take the fireman over 

447
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:20,900
the congressman because the 
congressman does nothing but 

448
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,800
evil in the fireman at least 
does something good sometimes, 

449
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,600
but they're still welfare. 
Parasites. 

450
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,400
Number 7. 
What is the libertarian 

451
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,600
position? 
The correct libertarian position

452
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,000
on government education? 
That's another one. 

453
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,000
That's that's a problem. 
So there's two fundamental 

454
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,400
problems that government 
education. 

455
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,700
Well at least two maybe number 
one is it requires tax dollars 

456
00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:50,500
to support it. 
So people are taxed and then 

457
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,200
that money is used to build 
buildings and to hire employees 

458
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,900
who teach your kids. 
So that's theft. 

459
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:00,900
And by the way, if it's done by 
the means of a voucher system, 

460
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:03,800
which I used to support in my 
green days, as a Libertarian, 

461
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,200
I'm against it now because the 
voucher system Do anything to 

462
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,700
reduce the fact that you have 
government welfare being used to

463
00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:15,100
educate our kids. 
It just changes the form. 

464
00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:16,800
But to me the form is 
irrelevant. 

465
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,600
They say it makes it more 
efficient, but I don't know if I

466
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,500
want everything the government 
does to be done more 

467
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:23,200
efficiently. 
I don't want tax collection to 

468
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,300
be done more efficiently. 
I don't want war to be done more

469
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:27,500
efficiently. 
You know, I don't want the drug 

470
00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:39,400
war to be prosecuted more 
efficiently and it also the 

471
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,400
voucher system also expands the 
welfare because under the 

472
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,000
current system at least some 
people still send their kids to 

473
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,500
private school. 
So like maybe 10% 20% of the 

474
00:25:47,508 --> 00:25:50,500
population they in effect pay 
twice, right? 

475
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:53,800
They're paying property taxes to
fund the public schools, the 

476
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,400
government schools and then they
pay private tuition to send 

477
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,200
their kids to private schools. 
So, let's say the the welfare of

478
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,900
government education funds, 80% 
of the population now, under a 

479
00:26:03,908 --> 00:26:05,900
voucher system. 
Little fund 100%. 

480
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,100
So it would expand welfare. 
As far as I can see. 

481
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:13,200
And also it would expand the 
domain of Education that 

482
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:18,000
government has control over. 
So the private schools are less 

483
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,200
influenced by government demands
about the curriculum, but 

484
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,000
private public schools or 
totally under the control of 

485
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,700
what the government School Board
say, has to be taught. 

486
00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:30,500
So if you expand about the, the 
public school system by means of

487
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:34,000
a voucher system, then in 
effect, all the private schools 

488
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,400
become Turned into public 
schools subject to the 

489
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,600
curriculum demands of the and 
other demands, right? 

490
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,500
Like diversity and all that kind
of stuff. 

491
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,800
So yeah, and government 
education also makes for a more.

492
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,900
Docile population reads, a bunch
of dumb kids who are uneducated 

493
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:56,200
and who or believe in 
collectivism. 

494
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:01,300
I mean, just think about what 
it's given them is to, in this 

495
00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:04,400
given rise to in this country, 
the elementary and the high 

496
00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:09,300
Public school systems are so bad
that a high school degree is no 

497
00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:13,000
longer what it used to be. 
So now you have to go to college

498
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,700
just to get educated to the 
degree a high school kid, 90 

499
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:21,600
years ago, would have been 
educated and that cost more 

500
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,700
money and then it gives rise to 
students occurring student 

501
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:26,000
loans. 
And then the government wants to

502
00:27:26,008 --> 00:27:29,700
come in and forgive those loans 
by raising our taxes, right? 

503
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,800
So the whole thing is just leads
to one problem after another, as

504
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,100
mises said, Said controls, breed
controls, like, once you 

505
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,600
intervene in the market, you 
cause distortions, people get 

506
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,000
around it. 
And then the government tries to

507
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:45,400
come up with patches to stop 
that. 

508
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,300
It's like tax loopholes, people 
find ways to get around them. 

509
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,800
Then the government patches, 
that loophole, and then people 

510
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,500
get around that. 
And it gets more and more 

511
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:55,600
complex. 
Number 8. 

512
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,800
What is the correct libertarian 
position on the state? 

513
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,700
So the libertarian fundamental 
position. 

514
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:07,900
As I mentioned is we oppose 
aggression defined as the use of

515
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:11,400
property without consent of the 
owner where property is 

516
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,200
determined in accordance with 
first, use and contractual title

517
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,900
transfer. 
So in other words, we oppose 

518
00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:24,100
aggression of all forms that is 
private or public aggression, 

519
00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:28,100
that is individual aggression by
a private criminal, you know, a 

520
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:32,900
crime. 
Or trespass or theft or the same

521
00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:34,900
actions by a group of people, 
right? 

522
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:37,100
That'd be public or 
institutionalized aggression. 

523
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:42,100
So if you have an agency or an 
institution, no matter what it 

524
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:48,500
calls itself, a corporation, or 
a band of Rogues or or a gang, 

525
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:54,200
or a state, or a king, they're 
not entitled to do to anyone, 

526
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,100
what an individual's not 
entitled to do. 

527
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:58,300
This, would bastiat pointed out 
and the law. 

528
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:02,300
If one guy doesn't have the 
right to take my property or to 

529
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:05,000
kill me then a group of people 
people don't have that right? 

530
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Because groups only have the 
rights that their individual 

531
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,100
members delegate to them. 
Right? 

532
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:12,200
So you can't have a group can 
have more rights than the 

533
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,500
individual members can have. 
So if you understand what a 

534
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:20,800
state is, a state is is an 
organization that does at least 

535
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,100
one of two things. 
And in practice, it always does 

536
00:29:24,100 --> 00:29:27,000
both. 
It it either. 

537
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:30,600
Takes upon itself, the right to 
tax. 

538
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,300
Right to fund Itself, by taking 
money from people, which is, 

539
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:38,600
I've already pointed out stuffed
or it. 

540
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,300
It monopolizes the the provision
of legal services and Law and 

541
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:45,100
Order. 
In other words, it Outlaws 

542
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:50,400
competition for defense and 
Justice and law, and when an 

543
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,300
Outlaws competitors, then 
everyone is forced to use the 

544
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:57,400
government for defense and has 
to pay whatever fee of the 

545
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,500
government demands. 
Even if it's a fee is the same 

546
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:02,500
as a tack. 
X because the fee Bears, no 

547
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:05,500
relationship to supply and 
demand because there's only one 

548
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:09,000
monopolistic supplier. 
So the fee is arbitrarily high. 

549
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,700
In other words. 
It's a Monopoly Monopoly priced 

550
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:16,600
fee, which is the same as a tax.
So, basically having a monopoly 

551
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,100
on on Law and Order and force 
gives you the same as the 

552
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:24,500
ability to tax and having the 
ability to tax gives you a 

553
00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:28,100
monopoly because if you have the
ability to tax, you can undercut

554
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,000
your competitors because they 
have to pay, you have to pay. 

555
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,100
Them the full price. 
Whereas, whereas you're forced 

556
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:35,600
to pay the price to the 
government. 

557
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:37,300
So you get the services for 
free. 

558
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,200
It's the same reason that 80% of
the population uses public 

559
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,500
schools because they're already 
forced to pay for it. 

560
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,400
They can't afford the private 
schools. 

561
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,100
So they go to the public schools
by the same token and agency 

562
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:51,800
that can tax can out-compete 
competitors. 

563
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,500
So, it doesn't even need to 
outlaw them. 

564
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,500
But in practice states, do both 
and both are types of aggression

565
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:59,200
and both are illegitimate. 
So, the problem of the state is 

566
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,400
that it's inherently Criminal 
because it is inherently commits

567
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,500
aggression by its nature and the
libertarian opposes aggression. 

568
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:10,000
So you have to oppose the state 
simply because it necessarily 

569
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,800
has to commit aggression to 
exist. 

570
00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:18,100
Finally number nine, you say. 
And now, covid, lockdowns, it 

571
00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:23,200
certainly is but bit of a jump 
that we're talking about things 

572
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,000
like IP and all this other 
stuff, and now it's like, all 

573
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,500
right, people have the right to 
leave their house so long as 

574
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:32,300
they're not murdering people. 
Same with foreign policy. 

575
00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:36,200
It's like we shouldn't fight in,
Iraq, and Iran, and Afghanistan.

576
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,400
And now it's like, oh, we 
shouldn't be funding and siding 

577
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,000
with al-Qaeda in Syria. 
It's getting so sad to debate 

578
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,400
these people. 
But what number 9, what is the 

579
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,800
correct libertarian Anarchist 
position on covid lockdowns? 

580
00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:56,400
Yeah, and yeah, I mean, up until
last year, we wouldn't have, we 

581
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,000
wouldn't have added. 
Let me find my Skype window. 

582
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,500
Here we go. 
We wouldn't have Had covid on 

583
00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:03,200
the list. 
We had the other eight eight or 

584
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,700
so things. 
But covid is a new thing in the 

585
00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:08,400
response to it. 
It seems to be a new thing in 

586
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:14,600
memory of modern society. 
So yeah, the response to it. 

587
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,300
According to, at least some of 
us Libertarians. 

588
00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:20,500
There are some, there are some 
Nervous Nellie's and respectable

589
00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:23,500
types and ass-kissers and 
paranoid types and 

590
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:28,200
hypochondriacs. 
And, you know, bootlickers who 

591
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,800
have a, fortunately gone the 
wrong way. 

592
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,800
This the issue I kind of think 
some libertarian should come up 

593
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,900
with a list of lists of the 
deviance here. 

594
00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:39,200
Just a shame them. 
It's shameful. 

595
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,100
Some of these guys who pretend 
to be hardcore Libertarians, 

596
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:47,100
even some anarchists are running
around kind of half 

597
00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:49,700
half-heartedly, or maybe even 
more than half, heartedly in 

598
00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:54,700
support of these lockdowns. 
I find it disgusting, and it's a

599
00:32:54,708 --> 00:32:58,400
sign of one's of one's principal
commitment to principles of 

600
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,300
Liberty. 
A lot of these guys just old and

601
00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:04,800
old and fat and sick and so 
they're kind of worried for 

602
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,600
themselves. 
So they, you know, I don't think

603
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,200
that's the way to come up with 
your Euro. 

604
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,500
Your, your principles for 
society is that you might catch 

605
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:21,300
a virus or a cold because you're
not good shape, you know, so but

606
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:24,600
most Libertarians I think have 
been outraged by the lockdowns 

607
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,900
and and the devastation that the
government response is done to 

608
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:30,000
our economy, right? 
And to human life. 

609
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,300
I do think that it could be a 
short-term thing. 

610
00:33:35,300 --> 00:33:37,600
And that, by the end of this 
year, things could be back 

611
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,700
relatively to normal. 
Except that the president has 

612
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:43,900
now been set. 
And now the next thing that 

613
00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:47,200
comes along we probably going to
do it again, maybe even worse 

614
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,700
next time. 
That's what worries me. 

615
00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:51,800
So I guess we can only hope that
these pandemics only come along 

616
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,500
every 50 years or something, but
but we'll see. 

617
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,100
But yeah, so I think that. 
Yeah we can some of my friends 

618
00:33:58,100 --> 00:33:59,900
think that the covid think 
should be number one on the 

619
00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:01,700
list. 
But as I said, you could make an

620
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:03,500
argument that any one of these 
should be number one on the 

621
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:07,400
list. 
But yeah, obviously for obvious 

622
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,699
reasons the lockdowns are on the
list. 

623
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:14,000
Very often, people will say I 
advocate socialism and then 

624
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,500
you'll give an example of 
Venezuela, the Soviet Union Pol 

625
00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:19,800
pot's Cambodia and they'll say 
that's not real. 

626
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,100
Socialism to be fair. 
People will say I'm anti 

627
00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:25,100
Capital. 
Let's look at America and all 

628
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:27,699
the terrible, you know 
mistreatment of the Indians and 

629
00:34:27,699 --> 00:34:30,600
invading countries based on lies
and will say well that's not 

630
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,800
real capitalism. 
So please define for us. 

631
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,600
What is socialism. 
Yeah. 

632
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:42,900
That's a good question. 
I think it's important to have 

633
00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:45,800
clear definitions on contentious
issues, especially with the 

634
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,300
terms have been have changed a 
lot over the years. 

635
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:51,699
I mean, I think mises pointed 
out that the war either random 

636
00:34:51,699 --> 00:34:54,300
eases. 
Can remember said, you know, the

637
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:56,199
word socialism could have been a
good word for us. 

638
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,100
If it had not been hijacked. 
Maybe it was. 

639
00:34:59,700 --> 00:35:02,800
Maybe thinking of, I think I'm 
rancid that about existentialism

640
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,400
actually like she could have 
called her philosophy 

641
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,100
existentialism. 
If neat, you hadn't taken it, 

642
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:10,600
but I think mises might have 
said, you know, because we're Or

643
00:35:10,607 --> 00:35:13,500
so, we're for society, were for 
being social with each other or 

644
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:18,500
something like that. 
So I would say, there's two ways

645
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:20,100
to think of the word is being 
defined. 

646
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:22,300
And whichever one it is. 
You can use as long as you're 

647
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:24,000
clear about that, definition 
upfront. 

648
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,700
So the classical definition of 
socialism, I think is and I'm 

649
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:30,700
not sure if modern 
left-libertarians would agree 

650
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:34,700
with me on this, but I think it 
is basically the collective or 

651
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:36,400
centralized ownership of the 
means of production. 

652
00:35:36,408 --> 00:35:42,400
So you view an economy as 
consisting of Different types of

653
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,300
actors and factors. 
So humans humans, so humans are 

654
00:35:47,300 --> 00:35:50,600
workers who are entrepreneurs 
summer consumers in their in 

655
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,300
their role. 
As consumers. 

656
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:56,800
We consume some action is labor 
and some his leisure, right? 

657
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,400
Some things we do for 
consumption for the pleasure of 

658
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,100
doing it and some things we do 
as a means to getting something 

659
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:06,400
done, the line, we call that 
labor, right? 

660
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:12,500
And so likewise some Goods We 
use different means or Goods to 

661
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:14,400
achieve these ends. 
So like you have consumption 

662
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,700
Goods which are things that we 
consume like, you know, a 

663
00:36:16,707 --> 00:36:22,300
sandwich or an ice cream bar or 
even a home to a degree. 

664
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:27,900
You live in the home, you enjoy 
the home and other other 

665
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:31,700
resources are used as 
intermediate Goods to produce 

666
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:34,400
other things, you know, like a 
machine, the manufacturing 

667
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,900
machine or, you know, the the 
printing press are. 

668
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:44,600
Something that that weaves 
Fabric or a hammer, you know, 

669
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,800
those are tools and then, big 
factories, and big, machinery, 

670
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,500
tractors and things like that. 
Those are classified as capital 

671
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:53,600
goods. 
That. 

672
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,300
And the idea is that the 
capital, the means of 

673
00:36:58,308 --> 00:37:01,700
production, the capital should 
be controlled collectively 

674
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:04,600
instead of privately owned and I
guess there's different 

675
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,100
Arguments for this. 
One is sort of the marxian 

676
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:09,500
exploitation argument that you 
shouldn't exploit people. 

677
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:13,200
The other is sort of this. 
Idea that sort of this George 

678
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:18,100
almost Georgia, State idea that 
that land is special, real 

679
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:21,500
estate is special these factors 
special because no one creates 

680
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:25,300
them and all we do is we stumble
across them. 

681
00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:28,600
We start using them as a 
platform to do productive things

682
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,700
on. 
And so the land itself plays a 

683
00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:37,400
role in The Profit you make from
a factory or house on that land 

684
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:42,300
and therefore that percentage of
your Activity is not you don't 

685
00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:44,500
own that by Merit. 
So he should be given back to 

686
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:47,100
the community and forms of a 
single tax by George's. 

687
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:50,500
Or I guess the idea is that that
should be owned collectively, 

688
00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:53,100
you know, by the community, 
according to socialist. 

689
00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:55,700
So I would say socialism. 
The classical definition is that

690
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:58,900
is the centralized control of 
the means of production and in 

691
00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:04,200
practice that means the 
government or the state in USSR 

692
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,400
Soviet Russia. 
And in China and North, I guess 

693
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,400
North Korea now and Cuba to a 
certain extent. 

694
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,400
Do you know, owning the 
factories and the big 

695
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,500
Industries? 
Now, Hans Hermann Hapa in his 

696
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,900
theory of socialism capitalism 
does am or what? 

697
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:23,300
I call essentialist definition 
of socialism. 

698
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,900
And by the way, capitalism would
be just be the opposite of 

699
00:38:26,908 --> 00:38:28,800
socialism. 
He would be private ownership of

700
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,400
the means of production. 
So basically, everything is 

701
00:38:31,408 --> 00:38:35,000
society, not just consumer goods
and not just people's cars and 

702
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,500
houses but also the factories 
and the means of production. 

703
00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:40,000
Those are all privately owned 
instead of collectively owned. 

704
00:38:40,700 --> 00:38:43,100
Although you could imagine a 
hybrid where like you have a 

705
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:49,900
Libertarian Anarchist free 
market Society where the factors

706
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:52,700
of production, the means of 
production or owned by groups of

707
00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:54,200
people. 
In fact, that's the way it is 

708
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:55,400
done. 
Now, they're called 

709
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:56,700
corporations. 
Right? 

710
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,200
So most big scale means of 
production and factories are 

711
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,800
owned by groups. 
You can call them collectives. 

712
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,900
It's just that they're privately
controlled and the group, the 

713
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:09,600
group outside, that group 
doesn't have a say-so in what 

714
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,500
they do and the government 
doesn't have a say-so in what 

715
00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:18,000
they do. 
So when you have these 

716
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,700
left-libertarians of these 
mutualist, they Envision a world

717
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:23,500
where there's no employee 
employment relationship anymore.

718
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:28,100
Capitalism is extinguished and 
yet worker coops running around 

719
00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:30,500
everywhere. 
That's all perfectly compatible 

720
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:33,100
with libertarianism. 
And even with capitalism, as 

721
00:39:33,100 --> 00:39:36,300
long as it's done, voluntarily, 
which is what which is what 

722
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:38,200
their big problem is. 
Because like, if they say they 

723
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,700
oppose the employee-employer 
relationship. 

724
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,800
Well, does that mean they don't 
like it? 

725
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,700
Or they would, they don't want 
to work for an employer. 

726
00:39:45,700 --> 00:39:49,900
Or does it mean that they would 
use some kind of social Force to

727
00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:54,700
prevent that relationship like 
to top as Robert knows they 

728
00:39:54,700 --> 00:39:58,200
called it capitalist acts 
between consenting adults. 

729
00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:00,300
And if they do that, then they 
become the aggressors 

730
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:02,400
themselves. 
And if they don't do that, I 

731
00:40:02,408 --> 00:40:03,800
don't see. 
There's any way they can stop 

732
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:04,800
it. 
Like you're going to have a 

733
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,500
diverse pluralistic society in a
in a private Law Society and a 

734
00:40:09,508 --> 00:40:13,300
free society and you might have 
hippie enclaves of a bunch of 

735
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:17,000
worker coops that are making 
hemp baskets, but you might also

736
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:22,500
have hyper capitalistic randian,
little enclaves, you know, 

737
00:40:22,700 --> 00:40:24,600
golf's little golf. 
Cultures everywhere. 

738
00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:27,400
You can't stop that and you 
wouldn't be able to stop that. 

739
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,900
You could have your little, your
Jewish ghettos here. 

740
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:33,700
And you're, you know, you're 
Mormon communities here and your

741
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:41,500
and your and your the Mennonites
here and and you know, the the 

742
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:45,100
rainbow-colored gay groups over 
here and maybe you know, the 

743
00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:49,200
pluralistic groups here that are
cosmopolitan's and secular and 

744
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,600
don't care. 
I mean you have everything even 

745
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,900
rothbard talked about this. 
By the way, yeah, so and even 

746
00:40:56,900 --> 00:41:00,000
today you have places, like, in 
Arizona. 

747
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,100
We have supermarkets, like, when
Co which are owned by the 

748
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:07,300
employees, stock owned by the 
employees and across the street.

749
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:12,200
You have Walmart, which has some
sort of employee stock option, 

750
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:16,000
but that's not, you know, that's
a little more hierarchical, but 

751
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,000
they're both in line with the 
non-aggression principle and 

752
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:25,200
original appropriation, or you 
could have Even RV companies 

753
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,900
like Cruise America on by the 
employees, La Mesa RV. 

754
00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:33,200
In Arizona is like sort of a CEO
controlled by the board. 

755
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,700
So it's getting into those 
definitions. 

756
00:41:35,700 --> 00:41:37,200
So just so we're on the same 
page. 

757
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:38,900
Well, let me finish. 
Let me finish one thing though. 

758
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:42,500
So I'm saying I was just a hot. 
The second way to conceive of 

759
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:45,500
socialism is the way Hapa does, 
and theory of socialism and 

760
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:48,100
capitalism. 
He doesn't more essentialist 

761
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:51,500
definition and he tries to look 
beyond the, you know, the 

762
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:53,300
collective ownership of the 
means of production. 

763
00:41:53,300 --> 00:41:56,100
And Look at what the essence of 
it is and extended and maybe 

764
00:41:56,100 --> 00:41:58,600
make it a little bit more Broad 
and Abstract. 

765
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,700
So what he says is the essence 
of socialism is the 

766
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:06,800
institutionalized interference 
with private property rights. 

767
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,900
Okay. 
So in other words, he doesn't 

768
00:42:09,100 --> 00:42:11,900
restricted only to the means of 
production or capital goods 

769
00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:15,300
because really in economics, 
there's a distinction between 

770
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:18,200
capital goods and consumption 
Goods but in libertarian Theory,

771
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,600
there's not like they're all 
just private property rights 

772
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,500
that we that private people 
should owned by the same. 

773
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,900
Right by first, use the by 
contract. 

774
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:27,800
So there's no reason to 
distinguish between those. 

775
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,600
So we're talking political 
philosophy, the essence of 

776
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,800
socialism. 
So what he distinguishes 

777
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,800
socialism from is private 
criminality, so private 

778
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,300
criminals or lone individuals 
are ad hoc criminal gangs, they 

779
00:42:43,300 --> 00:42:46,700
run around trespassing against 
property and committing acts of 

780
00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:50,400
crime or invasion of private 
property rights, but if it's 

781
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,200
done on a more institutionalized
basis, that is like, On a mass 

782
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,600
scale by a large organization. 
Then that is the state at. 

783
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,300
That is what socialism in 
essence is. 

784
00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:03,100
So basically his definition 
conflates, the state and 

785
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,400
socialism and crime. 
They're all the same thing or 

786
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,300
public crime, I should say, so, 
to the state, you have a state, 

787
00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:12,800
you have criminality, and you 
have socialism into the state. 

788
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,400
You have socialism, you have the
state and you have criminality 

789
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:17,400
right there. 
All different aspects of the 

790
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,400
same phenomenon and capitalism. 
As the opposite of that under 

791
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,700
that General formulation would 
be the D. 

792
00:43:26,700 --> 00:43:30,200
Widespread, institutionalized 
respect for private property 

793
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,700
rights. 
Excellent. 

794
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:39,400
So are you and Senior fellow at 
The mises Institute? 

795
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:42,700
Is that I was I was her about 
eight or nine years. 

796
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,200
I stepped down from that back in
2013, I believe, but I'm still, 

797
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:50,100
I'm still associated with them. 
I still speak at their 

798
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:52,600
conferences, on occasion. 
Excellent. 

799
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,800
I want to ask you about some of 
the most important contributions

800
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,300
of Austrian economists. 
What do you think is the most 

801
00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:01,800
important contribution of Carl 
Menger? 

802
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,400
Well, I probably the marginal 
Revolution, you know, just the 

803
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:17,100
idea that value is subjective 
and, you know, like the classic 

804
00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:20,500
pair of this will call Paradox 
of the diamond, you know, to our

805
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:22,300
to our ears. 
It's a mystery. 

806
00:44:22,300 --> 00:44:25,200
Why people call that a paradox, 
like why is it so hard to 

807
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,200
understand? 
Why diamonds are valued more 

808
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,600
than water, but that just goes 
to show how pervasive. 

809
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,300
Learning can be like people can 
learn over time. 

810
00:44:39,100 --> 00:44:43,800
Well, I think most people Now 
understand that severe strict 

811
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,300
centralized government planning 
of an economy doesn't work. 

812
00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:50,200
They don't understand that 
because they've read they've 

813
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,500
read mises or rothbard. 
They understand that because the

814
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:59,000
Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, 
and we saw what happened now, 

815
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,700
they didn't learn their lesson 
completely because they're not 

816
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,600
consistent and they didn't. 
Think about it too much and 

817
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,600
we're creeping back towards that
direction. 

818
00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:08,600
But for a good few decades, they
learned their lesson, you know, 

819
00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:11,800
and we kind of begrudgingly 
learned free markets or good. 

820
00:45:12,100 --> 00:45:14,600
So, likewise, I think, most 
people now, it's kind of 

821
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,700
obvious, because free market 
economics is basically taken for

822
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:19,500
granted. 
It's pretty easy to understand 

823
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:21,600
why diamonds are worth more than
water. 

824
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,300
But before that, before the 
before Menger and walras, and 

825
00:45:25,300 --> 00:45:30,700
jevons stumbled across this, 
this way of looking at Value in 

826
00:45:30,700 --> 00:45:34,200
the late 1800s. 
You know, it was it was a 

827
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,100
puzzle. 
Why would someone value diamonds

828
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:38,700
more than water? 
Because you need the water to 

829
00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:40,700
survive, but diamonds are 
useless really. 

830
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:44,900
But you know, the answer is 
obvious that the diamonds are 

831
00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:49,300
much more rare and you value 
things not by looking at the 

832
00:45:49,300 --> 00:45:50,900
mass of all the things that 
exist. 

833
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:54,500
But you look at the additional 
marginal extra unit that you are

834
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:58,300
considering acquiring or 
employing and to get that extra 

835
00:45:58,300 --> 00:46:01,200
Diamond takes is hard because 
there's not many of them around 

836
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,600
but if there's Lot of water, 
even though a cup of water is 

837
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,200
essential to you, living your 
living in an ocean of it. 

838
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,900
So you don't need to Value it 
that highly. 

839
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,400
So I guess that was his biggest 
contribution. 

840
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,500
Most important contribution of 
Bamba virk. 

841
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,700
I don't know how to say his 
first name or last Co I think 

842
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:32,600
it's not existent. 
I haven't read a lot of bum, ba 

843
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,200
Burke's hardcore economics. 
So I'm going by Secondhand 

844
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,400
reports. 
But what I do, I do love his 

845
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,300
book. 
I think it's called shorter 

846
00:46:42,700 --> 00:46:46,700
shorter Classics and he's got 
this long essay in there. 

847
00:46:47,100 --> 00:46:51,700
It's called something like 
things chapter for something 

848
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:55,400
about on the classification of 
legal rights as economic Goods, 

849
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,800
something like that. 
And it's amazingly it holds up 

850
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,500
even to this day. 
It's not a lot of people have 

851
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:04,400
done work on this. 
So to my mind as a legal 

852
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,800
theorist, and a Libertarian 
legal theorist, trying to build 

853
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,900
on and incorporate economic 
insights. 

854
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:15,600
Primarily Austrian economic 
insights that that chapter, it's

855
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,200
a long chapter is Seminole 
because that's what needs to be 

856
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,200
developed. 
And as far as I can tell, no one

857
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,100
has really developed it or even 
expounded upon it very much. 

858
00:47:25,100 --> 00:47:27,200
And he really got a lot of it, 
right? 

859
00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:30,400
That's like one of my goals in 
life after I get done with. 

860
00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:32,100
Or three books. 
I'm working on the next few 

861
00:47:32,100 --> 00:47:33,600
years. 
I would like to tackle that 

862
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,300
project. 
I don't know if I'm up for it, 

863
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,700
but I would like to because he 
has a lot of Promise in that 

864
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:39,900
chapter. 
So to me that's his most 

865
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:44,300
important contribution from from
my legalistic, political Theory 

866
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:48,000
combined with Austrian 
economics, point of view, most 

867
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,800
important contribution from 
Ludwig. 

868
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:55,700
Von mises. 
I think austrians would differ 

869
00:47:55,700 --> 00:48:01,000
on this. 
My opinion is basically his 

870
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,300
methodology. 
His praxeological framework, and

871
00:48:05,700 --> 00:48:09,000
really, as espoused in his last 
book, which is my favorite of 

872
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,700
his books. 
The ultimate Foundation of 

873
00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:14,700
economic science to me that is 
key because I rely on that over 

874
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:18,700
and over and increasingly over 
the years, in my legal analysis,

875
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:24,100
basically, the Just his way of 
looking at. 

876
00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:28,600
What human actors are the 
distinction between action and 

877
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,200
behavior, right? 
The causal realm, versus the 

878
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,600
teleological realm, the fact 
that we employ a means to 

879
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,900
achieve ends, the distinguishing
between that all the all the 

880
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:42,900
implied categories, like 
opportunity cost profit and loss

881
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,800
time, preference, and 
uncertainty of the future. 

882
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,500
All those things are so 
fundamental to me and so useful 

883
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:55,500
as a as a heuristic way of 
thinking about Social 

884
00:48:55,500 --> 00:49:00,000
relationships. 
Now other austrians might focus 

885
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,000
on his other achievements, which
would be his monetary theory has

886
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,800
developed his views on the 
Austrian business cycle and in 

887
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,000
monetary through his regression 
theorem as well. 

888
00:49:13,300 --> 00:49:18,600
But to me, it's his methodology.
Most important contribution from

889
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:23,800
Friedrich Hayek. 
You know, I'm not, I gotta say, 

890
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,000
I'm not a hike. 
I'm not a big hike fan. 

891
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,600
I find his work murky. 
I find him to be a dilettante. 

892
00:49:28,700 --> 00:49:32,500
I find him from what I 
understand. 

893
00:49:32,500 --> 00:49:37,300
He was best. 
So the classic the classic or 

894
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:41,900
the typical line on Hayek by the
hardcore rothbard Ian's and 

895
00:49:41,908 --> 00:49:43,900
disease. 
Is that to the extent? 

896
00:49:43,900 --> 00:49:46,300
Hayek was good. 
He was just repeating what mises

897
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:49,500
did like the business cycle 
Theory and to the extent he 

898
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:53,300
wasn't saying what mises Said he
was wrong. 

899
00:49:55,100 --> 00:49:57,600
And I think the one exception to
that, from what I understand is 

900
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,000
his Capital Theory which I had 
in the red. 

901
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:03,400
I've heard that is very good. 
And that is that is original. 

902
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,900
But yeah, to these stand these 
repeating what mises did I find 

903
00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:11,500
mises better like on the 
knowledge problem? 

904
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:13,800
I think he goes astray with the 
knowledge problem with the I 

905
00:50:13,808 --> 00:50:16,500
don't agree with his knowledge 
wave like the calculation 

906
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:18,800
problem socialism. 
I think mises is way of looking 

907
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,200
at it as a problem of property, 
right? 

908
00:50:21,300 --> 00:50:23,200
It's like, if you don't have 
property rights in a free 

909
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,700
market, you can't have pre 
market prices emerge and then 

910
00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:30,200
there's no means of comparing 
had erogenous projects on the 

911
00:50:30,207 --> 00:50:31,900
market. 
It's that simple. 

912
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,600
I mean, simple after he said it 
before, he said it, it was, it 

913
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,700
was hard to figure it out. 
But once once you say something,

914
00:50:37,700 --> 00:50:41,000
brilliant and obvious, she's 
like the subjective Revolution, 

915
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,300
right? 
Or but Hayek's thing about how 

916
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:46,000
knowledge dispersed and all this
stuff. 

917
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,500
I just, I think it's murky and, 
and ambiguous and not rigorous 

918
00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:54,200
and I think it's actually 
Incorrect, and then, of course, 

919
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,800
I'll political theory. 
He dabbled in lots of things 

920
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,100
later. 
And I mean his writing is I just

921
00:51:00,100 --> 00:51:02,400
don't like it. 
I mean, I slog through law 

922
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,700
legislation and Liberty and the 
constitution of Liberty. 

923
00:51:06,100 --> 00:51:11,700
He basically became a welfare 
statist after he left mises 

924
00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:14,000
orbit. 
I mean, he's in favor of welfare

925
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,000
and you know, as long as the law
is so-called General, he's not 

926
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,800
opposed to it, even if it's 
conscription or welfare or 

927
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,000
regulating businesses. 
So he's not a Libertarian at 

928
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:24,200
all. 
I don't know why people think 

929
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,700
he's one of us. 
He's not a really an Austrian in

930
00:51:26,700 --> 00:51:28,600
the mises sense and he's not a 
Libertarian. 

931
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,300
So take mises. 
Take Hayek off. 

932
00:51:31,300 --> 00:51:36,200
My list of Austrian greats 
Murray rothbard. 

933
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:43,700
Probably the stuff. 
I like to do, basically 

934
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:46,000
libertarian legal Theory. 
I mean, I think he did a good 

935
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:51,700
job of restating a lot of mises 
economic framework in a kind of 

936
00:51:51,700 --> 00:51:55,600
different language and more are 
versatility in language as far 

937
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,000
as improvements on the 
economics. 

938
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,600
I think it might be basically 
the antitrust stuff like Beezus 

939
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,500
was a little wobbly on a loan on
monopolies and antitrust and 

940
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:06,900
rothbard improve that and then 
hop improve that as well. 

941
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,500
But he was basically just really
seldom is easy on economics, but

942
00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:19,300
on, I think so he combined 
radical Austrian free market 

943
00:52:19,300 --> 00:52:23,300
economics with Ein. 
Ran's kind of individualist 

944
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,800
individual rights approach and 
then he combined that with a an 

945
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,900
anti statist, radical Anarchist 
approach. 

946
00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:33,900
And so it was just his kind of 
overall. 

947
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:40,400
Consistent worldview kind of a 
multi-directional attack on the 

948
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,100
state and on aggression. 
So, like the ethics of Liberty 

949
00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:49,600
is probably his best work in 
political theory, for me for a 

950
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,100
new Liberty, being s and in 
economics. 

951
00:52:52,100 --> 00:52:55,000
I think my pride my favorite 
work by rothbard economics is 

952
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,000
the I keep forgetting the new 
title. 

953
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,600
It was called the logic of the 
logic of action, one and two, 

954
00:53:04,300 --> 00:53:07,700
But it's hard to find now, but 
they republish it, I think it's 

955
00:53:07,700 --> 00:53:10,900
called making economic sense. 
They republished it under a 

956
00:53:10,908 --> 00:53:13,300
different title, for copyright 
reasons, or something like that.

957
00:53:13,300 --> 00:53:16,300
And that one's available online.
So that's like a really good, 

958
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,400
very large and very good 
overview of his of his economics

959
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,200
for methodology to practical 
applications. 

960
00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:27,900
And another lost classic is the 
free market reader which was 

961
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:30,100
written by Rockwell and 
rothbard. 

962
00:53:30,100 --> 00:53:33,100
It was basically an edited 
selection of their short. 

963
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,000
Owls in the free market 
newsletter, which The mises 

964
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,800
Institute used to publish years 
ago. 

965
00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:40,100
They're kind of more 
Elementary's, more on the line 

966
00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:42,600
of hazlitt's economics in one 
lesson, but that's a really good

967
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:48,800
little book to Walter block. 
Block is just a really good 

968
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,400
consistent libertarian. 
Who is innovated and pioneered? 

969
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:57,000
And I think both economics and 
libertarian philosophy. 

970
00:53:57,900 --> 00:53:59,200
He's written so much in 
economics. 

971
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,000
I couldn't begin to say, I mean,
he's written really pioneering 

972
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,400
things. 
On blackmail Theory, also on 

973
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:09,300
this, this issue of the optimal 
supply of money, which actually 

974
00:54:09,300 --> 00:54:11,500
disagree with them. 
About, I take mises and 

975
00:54:11,500 --> 00:54:13,900
rothbard, like I think the 
optimal supply of money is 

976
00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:17,000
whatever it happens to be and I 
think Increasing the supply of 

977
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,500
money. 
Never does any good. 

978
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:21,400
Not that I'm against it legally.
Like I think if people might 

979
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,300
find new gold they have to be 
permitted to do it, but still I 

980
00:54:24,308 --> 00:54:27,100
think that's bad because it 
causes inflation and wealth 

981
00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:30,500
redistribution and it doesn't 
increase wealth in society 

982
00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:33,200
Walter argues. 
Otherwise in an intriguing 

983
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,600
article will Barnett William 
Barnett but in political 

984
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,900
philosophy, so his blackmail 
stuff and his pushing the 

985
00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:44,900
borders of lots of controversial
areas like in is defending the 

986
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:47,900
undependable. 
Volumes 1 and 2 and I don't 

987
00:54:47,900 --> 00:54:50,900
remember this number three out, 
but defamation law. 

988
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:53,900
And on punishment theory, he 
came up with this thing called, 

989
00:54:53,900 --> 00:54:59,000
to teeth for a tooth, which is 
sort of like a Lex talionis or 

990
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,600
retribution assist view of 
punishment Theory, which 

991
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,800
rothbard later incorporated, 
into his own stuff. 

992
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,700
I disagree with Walter on a few 
issues, like a voluntary 

993
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:12,200
slavery, things like that, but 
he keeps pushing the boundaries 

994
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:16,000
and trying to apply basic 
libertarian ideas. 

995
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,500
Our principles to Exotic 
scenarios as much as possible. 

996
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:24,700
More than anyone. 
I know, Bob Murphy tweeted out, 

997
00:55:24,700 --> 00:55:28,500
an article about two guys who 
got arrested for shooting each 

998
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:33,700
other with bulletproof vests on.
And Bob Murphy was like, Walter 

999
00:55:33,700 --> 00:55:37,500
block still unavailable for 
comment or he's gonna be like, 

1000
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,300
assisting, the attorney and it's
so funny because the book was 

1001
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:47,200
written in 1974 defending the 
undefendable and it It's so good

1002
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,700
that it's worth referencing 
commonly in the year 2021. 

1003
00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:54,600
That's how much I recommend a 
excellent book like that. 

1004
00:55:54,900 --> 00:55:56,900
Yeah, I think to maybe two hikes
credit. 

1005
00:55:56,900 --> 00:55:59,500
I think he prays that book or 
maybe I don't know if it's Hayek

1006
00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:01,500
or freedmen or someone like 
that, but they said this is a 

1007
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:04,300
bracing me. 
The thing is to us if we read it

1008
00:56:04,300 --> 00:56:06,800
now us, radical Libertarians. 
It's like all obvious. 

1009
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,600
But when he wrote at the time it
was scandalous. 

1010
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,100
That's why the rampions hated 
him, right? 

1011
00:56:10,100 --> 00:56:13,100
Because he's, oh, he's trying to
be trying to glorify the worst 

1012
00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:15,400
things in society or whatever. 
It's like, no, he's trying to 

1013
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,500
Trying to defend the hardest 
case because, you know, the 

1014
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:21,900
adage hard cases make bad law. 
Not if you're consistent 

1015
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:24,100
libertarian, the hard cases, you
still stick with your 

1016
00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:26,800
principles, you know, you defend
the worst among us because they 

1017
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:29,300
are the ones they come after 
first, right? 

1018
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:36,600
Yeah, that's that's pretty rich 
for the Randy ins to say that. 

1019
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:41,800
He's an engaging in things that 
make us look bad as as they 

1020
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,200
justify the existence of a 
state, refer to Iran as a 

1021
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,500
terrorist Nation, refer to Japan
as an evil empire. 

1022
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:52,500
That should have been nuked 
three times if that's what it 

1023
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:54,900
took. 
And then yaron Brook is like 

1024
00:56:55,100 --> 00:56:57,700
well, so what if they were 
civilians, they weren't trying 

1025
00:56:57,700 --> 00:57:01,300
to overthrow their Emperor. 
They were basically complicitous

1026
00:57:01,300 --> 00:57:04,400
like, What the hell happened to 
individualism? 

1027
00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:09,000
And also they support, you know,
what, we did to the American 

1028
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,100
Indians because they're Savages 
and they didn't really, they 

1029
00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:13,100
weren't really civilized. 
They didn't own property. 

1030
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:17,700
The American oil companies have 
the right to take the oil from 

1031
00:57:17,700 --> 00:57:21,700
force from Arabia because 
they're Savages and you know, it

1032
00:57:21,700 --> 00:57:25,900
was our technology that did it 
almost like an IP claim almost 

1033
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:29,000
like what work used to blow up 
someone else's private property 

1034
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,700
The Courtland homes project and 
The Fountainhead and an active. 

1035
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:39,300
IP terrorism, yeah, it's rich. 
I remember one time about 15 

1036
00:57:39,300 --> 00:57:41,100
years ago. 
I was with Walter at a mises 

1037
00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:43,900
thing and he left, he gets 
gleeful and happy. 

1038
00:57:43,900 --> 00:57:47,000
When you give him a new he 
would, you know, I was testing 

1039
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,200
his kind of crazy theories and I
said, okay what if you what if 

1040
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:55,400
the Hulk picks suit up and 
throws her like a missile at 

1041
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,400
Jim? 
So Jim has no choice but to use 

1042
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,900
a baseball bat to knock her out 
of his path. 

1043
00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:03,900
Otherwise she will. 
Hit him and kill him but she's 

1044
00:58:03,900 --> 00:58:07,100
totally innocent, but the Hulk 
picked her up and threw her. 

1045
00:58:07,100 --> 00:58:10,000
So he loved that example. 
So he wrestled that 14 years. 

1046
00:58:10,700 --> 00:58:14,500
Well, you should check out 
defending the undefendable. 

1047
00:58:14,500 --> 00:58:18,300
Three the working chapters. 
He has for it. 

1048
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:21,800
It includes it includes 
cannibalism. 

1049
00:58:21,900 --> 00:58:28,200
So I really, yeah, he's looking 
he he I think he put in Ultra 

1050
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,000
property and number two, or he 
might do it number three, but 

1051
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,900
the The one issue, I think a lot
of Libertarians are afraid to 

1052
00:58:33,908 --> 00:58:36,700
tackle of this is as age of 
consent for sex thing because 

1053
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:39,700
you don't want to get accused of
pedophilia and all this, you 

1054
00:58:39,707 --> 00:58:42,000
know, so people are afraid to 
test out on my feet. 

1055
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,600
Never touched that one. 
But, and I've got to go, by the 

1056
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:46,100
way, about three or four minutes
by the way. 

1057
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:48,000
Okay. 
Yeah. 

1058
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,900
Well, isn't that sad? 
We're walking on eggshells 

1059
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,400
afraid to be called pedophiles? 
While talking to people who 

1060
00:58:54,700 --> 00:58:57,600
justify the mass murder of 
children through bombing and say

1061
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,400
ancients. 
It's ridiculous. 

1062
00:59:00,700 --> 00:59:03,300
Final question. 
Most Important contribution of 

1063
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:06,300
Lew Rockwell. 
I didn't get the hop up. 

1064
00:59:06,300 --> 00:59:10,600
That's interesting. 
I thought you and I spent our 

1065
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,500
first discussion all on Hoppa, 
so I didn't do it. 

1066
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:18,200
Okay, and how about has so many?
I plan to write a hope to 

1067
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,100
possibly write a book someday, 
maybe 100 page, pray, see an 

1068
00:59:22,100 --> 00:59:26,300
overview of all the Papas work. 
If I'm up to the task and if I 

1069
00:59:26,308 --> 00:59:30,100
finish some other projects Lew 
Rockwell, I suppose founding The

1070
00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:34,400
mises Institute as his greatest 
accomplishment for. 

1071
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,500
I mean, Not to not to criticize 
it at all. 

1072
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:40,100
I don't think it's a central now
that used to be because there's 

1073
00:59:40,100 --> 00:59:43,700
so many more outlets and 
avenues, which is good. 

1074
00:59:43,900 --> 00:59:45,900
The libertarian party's bigger. 
There's chapters. 

1075
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:47,700
There's mises Institute all over
the world. 

1076
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:50,400
There's other groups that are 
free market oriented as well. 

1077
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:55,000
Now, but for a for a while 
there, I don't know, for a good 

1078
00:59:55,000 --> 01:00:01,200
20 years. 15, 20 25 years. 
It was like the prime, the 

1079
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:07,300
Premier Source of solid Austrian
economic thinking and radical 

1080
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:13,800
principled libertarian thinking,
and they had an a head of the 

1081
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:19,700
times website with tons and tons
of materials free online, which 

1082
01:00:19,700 --> 01:00:22,800
was a novelty at the time, which
is bold, right? 

1083
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,100
Which was done sort of a Jeff 
Tucker's initiative and sort of,

1084
01:00:26,107 --> 01:00:30,400
at my IP ideas, kind of I think 
judge Jeff to do that to a 

1085
01:00:30,408 --> 01:00:33,300
degree. 
But so I think Rockwell's 

1086
01:00:33,300 --> 01:00:35,600
founding of the mises to was 
he's done. 

1087
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,300
Lots of amazing things here, it,
lots of great things published. 

1088
01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:43,400
Lots of great works supported, 
lots of important thinkers, but 

1089
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:45,300
I'd say The mises Institute by 
far. 

1090
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,300
Excellent. 
Mr. Kinsella. 

1091
01:00:47,300 --> 01:00:50,800
Thank you so much for your time.
The book is against intellectual

1092
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,100
property from gosh. 
What is it? 

1093
01:00:53,100 --> 01:00:56,800
Been 11 years? 
12 years, almost 20, I think, 

1094
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,400
and I'm going to do a new book 
in about a year called copy this

1095
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,200
book, so it'll be a new one from
scratch. 

1096
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,700
So it'll replace that one. 
But yeah, about 20 years ago, 

1097
01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:07,600
excellent. 
And the new one out soon as law 

1098
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,900
in a Libertarian World. 
Mr. Kinsella. 

1099
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,300
Thank you for your time. 
You're welcome, and call me 

1100
01:01:12,300 --> 01:01:14,200
stuff. 
And next time we'll do.