1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,880 All right, we are here for a show none of us planned on doing 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,480 this week. But it is something that has 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:12,440 come up that has really kind of engulfed our world the past few 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:14,560 days in a week or so. And we want to tell you guys 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,120 everything that's been unfolding with a cheating scandal on NFCA 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,320 platform. We've played on this year 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,160 platform we're currently in playoff contest in. 8 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,640 And we recently discovered an employee who was helping another 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,000 user on the site change their lineup illegally. 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,560 And we uncovered this with the stat chasing guys. 11 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,120 And tonight we're going to tell you guys everything that we 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,720 learned how we uncovered this and kind of the ramifications as 13 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,400 well as NFCS statement. So a heavy tone for us here on 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,320 chef chasing, but Pat and Ben, we're going to kind of fill 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,200 everyone in on what's been going on here tonight. 16 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,600 Yeah. So we have kind of a lot of 17 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,040 details to go through in terms of everything that we uncovered, 18 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,920 how we uncovered it, details on this contest, which itself is a 19 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,080 complicated playoff contest with where you can change players 20 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,920 after each round. And so we'll kind of dive into 21 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,240 all of those details. But I think from a high level 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:18,200 perspective, we're looking at 2 post lock line up changes that 23 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,000 were made to one of the highest scoring line UPS in this playoff 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,600 contest. Those were made by an NFC 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,560 employee and we brought that to NF CS attention. 26 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,640 Yeah, and people who watched our We did a week of playoff shows 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,640 and we were covering all the contests in this specific NFC 28 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,840 hold em playoff contest. It was one that we actually 29 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,240 weren't super familiar with. I played one entry in it last 30 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,360 year with Davis Maddock and we were kind of talking through the 31 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,120 strategies on the show with the stat chasing guys, Sacrilegious 32 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,920 and Draco. And if you guys watch that show, 33 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,720 you saw we were having a hard time wrapping our head around 34 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,240 all of the intricacies. Well, flash forward. 35 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,880 These guys went so deep in the weeds on this contest thinking 36 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,199 through all of the game theory. Pat and I would, like, check in 37 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:10,800 on our group chat and Gretch and these guys would have sent 38 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,080 literally hundreds of messages on strategy. 39 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,040 Like, I was like, holy cow, I didn't even realize there was 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,240 this much to discuss. But Gretch, like you guys, kind 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,520 of fell in love with trying to solve the puzzle pieces of this 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,440 NFC playoff Hold'em contest. Yeah I mean that was the the the 43 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,840 thing about this it was so such such a bummer I think was that 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,360 there's so much game theory in this contest. 45 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,200 There's so much fun to it. For the I think it was the first 46 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,440 time for both Draco and Sack to dive into it really. 47 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,760 It certainly was for me. So the three of us to kind of 48 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,360 all be like bouncing ideas off each other we had a blast with 49 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:48,040 it we so we we ultimately saw something fishy was up on Sunday 50 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,880 night after the Chiefs Bills game. 51 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,760 But just for like a little background we had spent almost 52 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,680 two hours Sunday morning talking about our two line up decisions 53 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,400 for Sunday. Just the games in, the players 54 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,400 in and really it was our second player we were going to be 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,960 adding to the Detroit line up and the second player we're 56 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,440 going to be adding to the KC line up. 57 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,360 Because the way this contest works, we were already committed 58 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,440 essentially to Detroit over Tampa Bay based on the way our 59 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,360 line up was set up, and to Kansas City over Buffalo. 60 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,920 But we were going to be adding and then there's a a multiplier. 61 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,040 So we're already committed with our first player, but in the 62 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,600 second round you could add a second player from each team, 63 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,240 and it was that second player for those two teams that we 64 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,280 spent literally two hours talking through. 65 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,600 How do we do this? The line up in question was 66 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,600 ahead of us in this contest, so we had our eyes on this line up. 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,360 This was a line up that we needed to find a way past and we 68 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:46,400 were really hoping the way things played out that and Ave. 69 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,840 would open up so that we could actually get ahead of this line 70 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,720 up by playing Travis Kelsey and the line up would would have 71 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,400 Hershey Rice and that would be kind of our path to to passing 72 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,160 this line. It would be kind of a similar 73 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,960 equivalent. You know if anyone's played head 74 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,920 to head cash games on DraftKings and you have the 1:00 PM games 75 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,880 and you're behind against your opponent, and then you're trying 76 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,160 to figure out what do they have in the 4:00 PM slot. 77 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,440 And you know that your equity in that head to head is tied to how 78 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,079 you're late players compared to theirs. 79 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,640 And if you're blocked and if you're behind, you know you need 80 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,600 to make a switch based on what they have. 81 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,680 So there's this almost like game of chicken in general or trying 82 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,040 to figure out how do we optimize to pass this guy who essentially 83 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:29,960 has a better version of our line up right now. 84 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,360 Exactly. That is, that is at its core, 85 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,920 but, well, the fun. The fun thing about this contest 86 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,200 is there are a lot more options, I think, than DFS. 87 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,120 But then when you really boil it down, you recognize that you do 88 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,520 need to make decisions on who's going to win which games in each 89 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,720 round to set up these multipliers that exist. 90 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,600 And so one of the reasons this this entry for us was so good 91 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,880 was that we got Aaron Jones through in the first round. 92 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,560 We played both sides and you can do in the first round, play both 93 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,000 sides of a couple of games. You can't in the second round. 94 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,560 It's a it's a unique element, the way that the multipliers 95 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,800 line up. If you're really optimizing, you 96 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,280 need to pick the four winners correctly and divisional round 97 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:11,960 weekend. But in the first weekend you can 98 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,520 play both sides of a couple games. 99 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,120 We played both sides of the Green Bay Dallas game we got 100 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,160 Aaron Jones through, which ended up being a really a huge key. 101 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,160 One of the other sharp decisions we made was to full fade Miami 102 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,000 and not play both sides of Kansas City. 103 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,880 Miami, which a lot of other people were doing. 104 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,120 Miami didn't have a big score and a loss. 105 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,280 We didn't have that, you know, So we had Kuka and Akua and a 106 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:33,000 loss in our line up. That's like an FFPC playoff 107 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,920 contest element that exists in this element or in this contest. 108 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,160 But we had set it up where we had the four eventual winners in 109 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,880 divisional round as our second round winners. 110 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,760 We had KC over Buffalo determined before round one by 111 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,800 the way that we played the Buffalo Pittsburgh game. 112 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,160 It's all very complicated, but we full faded Pittsburgh. 113 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,400 We saw faded Buffalo. You don't you don't do that in 114 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,560 like a FPC contest. You can do it in NFC where we 115 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,240 just had the Buffalo kicker and so we had set that up. 116 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,720 So the Buffalo had to lose in the second round in our entry. 117 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:05,240 And so the point I'm trying to drive home is that you're in 118 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,760 this lane with your entry and there's only a couple other 119 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,280 teams that are potentially in that lane. 120 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,960 So really the one team on Sunday morning we were looking at that 121 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,560 was ahead of us, it was in our lane. 122 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,240 They end up double stacking Buffalo later kind of a unique 123 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,680 decision, they added digs to their to their build. 124 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,240 The team that we're going to eventually start breaking down 125 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,800 was actually behind us in the morning, but they had Mike Evans 126 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,760 on a multiplier. And so when the Detroit Tampa 127 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,200 game got like 50 points out of Mike Evans and shot ahead of us 128 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,480 and then immediately got on our radar, we were covered up every 129 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,800 other spot. And we needed to make a decision 130 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,720 on the Kansas City Buffalo game just basically between the two 131 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,320 games. And Draco really sharply got us 132 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,480 onto this pivot to Kelsey. But we were concerned that 133 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,120 someone other player might think Kelsey was the right play the 134 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,360 the. So both of us had Pacheco as our 135 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,160 first player that was going to be on a two times multiplier and 136 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,720 then you had a second player on a one times multiplier and the 137 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,280 decision was essentially Kelsey or Rasheed Rice. 138 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,960 We thought that in all likelihood the other user would 139 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,040 would play Rasheed Rice over Kelsey. 140 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,400 So we pivoted to Kelsey and we were ecstatic to see that this 141 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,360 user's roster at Locke did play Rice. 142 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,320 And so we're we're sweating. Who he even plays. 143 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,800 We want to see who this line up ends up having. 144 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,240 At lock is a sweat for us 'cause we've got to. 145 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,520 We want to be able to get past it with Kelsey. 146 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,320 Which is so crazy 'cause we never catch this, we never, we 147 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,720 never run into this if we didn't have this really good line up 148 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,080 that is also so identical. That is both of us soft faded 149 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,080 Buffalo with with a kicker or a defence advance. 150 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,280 Both of us had Pacheco in the two times multiplier. 151 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,080 Both of us had this Kelsey or Rice decision, and both of us 152 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,320 had the same players advance from Detroit, Baltimore, and San 153 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,320 Francisco. All of the rest of the lineup 154 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,760 was set up identically. Yeah. 155 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:02,840 And and obviously just kind of like zoom back that is that's 156 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,720 the only reason I think we would have ever uncovered this Draco 157 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,800 sacrilegious, Gretch because they were so in the weeds with 158 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,600 hey, we have a really good chance with this team, like this 159 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,560 team can make noise in this contest. 160 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,960 So what do you do when you have a good team and regardless of 161 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,360 ADFS fantasy contest you start Hawking all the other teams 162 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,720 ahead of you. What is our path? 163 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,680 The 1st place who blocks us? And in this contest, the way 164 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,480 Ben's describing it, it's really unique in that if some people 165 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,800 haven't made the same decisions as you, you're really only 166 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,760 competing against a couple of rosters who are on the same 167 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,320 trajectory, essentially trying to execute the same game plan as 168 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,360 you. Yeah, and it's not just for 169 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,240 sometimes you're just kind of hoping, like in a best ball 170 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,320 contest, you're seeing you know if you're blocked or not and 171 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,000 you're hoping you'd find out you're not blocked. 172 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,120 But there's nothing you can do about it. 173 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,040 If you are in this contest, if you find out that you're likely 174 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,880 to be blocked, you can actually pull some levers to get unique 175 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,920 with who you had in the in the future round. 176 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,720 So that's another reason you know we're scouting out the 177 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,320 other line UPS that we're doing really well and you find a line 178 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,880 up that looks so similar to yours, all of a sudden it 179 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,840 becomes very, very critical that you get different in a sharp 180 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,960 way. And this Kelsey Rice pivot was 181 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,040 was our attempt to do that. And at lock boom, there it is, 182 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,040 played out exactly like we're hoping we have Kelsey. 183 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,080 He has rice. So you can see screenshots all 184 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:27,920 that. Yeah, you can see the screenshot 185 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,920 still says pregame, but we can see the other users roster. 186 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,400 The other thing I'd point to is that the players advancing from 187 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,360 Baltimore, San Francisco, and Detroit all the way down are 188 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:39,720 going to be the same. They're not necessarily the 189 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,560 exact same slots on the screenshot. 190 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:43,840 Like the two quarterbacks are flipped in the top two lines 191 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,040 there. But we both have McCaffrey, we 192 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,240 both have Jamir Gibbs. The other user has Gibbs down in 193 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,600 the flex at the very bottom almost off the page. 194 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,600 We both have Almanro St. Brown throughout this, you'll 195 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,280 see this. But the other user had Mike 196 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,360 Evans down here and had on on a multi multiplier was able to get 197 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,200 57 points because they got times to his score And so he had 198 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,520 almost a 30 point game, he gets almost 60 points. 199 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,520 We weren't really anticipating all that and then it was OK now 200 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,360 we're actually chasing by a good margin this other user. 201 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,400 And so we jump in with this Kelsey play and to see that Rice 202 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,960 was in that line, it was like, OK, great, Now we have this 203 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,960 opportunity for Kelsey to outscore Rice by a bunch this 204 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,400 week and in future weeks because now the multiplier's going to 205 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,520 build on Kelsey and their multiplier's going to build on 206 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,440 rice. They can play Kelsey next week, 207 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:30,880 but we'll have an extra multiplier. 208 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,440 So basically it becomes our Kelsey first their rice. 209 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,440 The rest of the way, we're more committed to Kelsey. 210 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,640 They're more committed to Rice. And so you're really pumped 211 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,880 about this. And then the game plays out. 212 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,240 And that's the same. Just to just to clarify, the 213 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,120 reason this screenshot exists is because we were so anxious to 214 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,160 see what did they end up playing. 215 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,560 That he took. This screenshot and then like we 216 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:54,160 did it, we got our Kelsey leverage over the Rashi rice. 217 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,520 Play we have. Multiple screenshots of this 218 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,600 because Draco and Sack were taking screenshots. 219 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,000 I mean, everyone, there's excitement. 220 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,080 Yeah, and they both took a screenshot. 221 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,280 I was kind of asking about the pivot in the chat. 222 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,920 They both send it. We're like yes, this is this is 223 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,640 great. It was a really it was a last 224 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,240 minute pivot. We had talked through a lot of 225 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,240 eventualities that morning. Draco very sharply and Sack 226 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,760 joins in. They both they they took the 227 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,960 initiative to make this pivot that we had sort of discussed a 228 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,640 little bit earlier but absolutely crushed it. 229 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,880 When Rice is on the other team then the game plays out and 230 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,760 Kelsey has this great game and we're pumped. 231 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,400 And then after the game me and Draco are are talking in the 232 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:36,040 chat and both at the same time realize this user's team is 233 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,480 still in the top 10. So coming into Sunday, our 234 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,800 roster was in sixth out of 1500 teams. 235 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,400 This is part of the reason we're so excited, but we knew that we 236 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,840 would get past by teams that had Josh Allen and played the Bills 237 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,320 heavier. We were soft fading the Bills, 238 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,400 they were playing both sides of Kansas City and Buffalo or or 239 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,680 had access to a lot more points. There's a lot of people that had 240 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:57,120 Josh Allen on a two times multiplier, they were going to 241 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,920 gain points and right now we have fallen a lot further down 242 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:02,120 the leaderboard. But we're still in good position 243 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:03,680 when you look at this whole contest. 244 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:08,800 But this other user, despite not having Josh Allen and despite 245 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,240 soft fading this Bills and only having the Bills, kicker was 246 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,360 still sitting in like 6th place and me and Drake are like, how 247 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,720 is this possible? We click on it and he has 248 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,080 Travis, Kelsey and we both immediately are like this is 249 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,880 weird like like this doesn't make sense because we were 250 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,040 sharing screenshots like what happened? 251 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,440 Did something happen with the software? 252 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,040 Why was this person able to make a change after line UPS were 253 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,080 visible? Because our immediate thought is 254 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:39,160 they saw that we played Kelsey and then for some reason they're 255 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,560 able to then make a change to match us because they were ahead 256 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,960 of us. They know that they can block us 257 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,040 and we're like that. That's smart. 258 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,640 But we have evidence that they were able to see our player 259 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,240 because we were able to see their player. 260 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,480 And that's a huge game theory element and and that's not the 261 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,880 way it should go. As it turns out, that's not 262 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,120 actually what happened. There's a lot more to it, but 263 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,280 that was our initial thought and it was just like Pan. 264 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,880 I mean, we actually have screenshots because we're so 265 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,120 excited to see rice in these lineups and now Kelsey's in 266 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:10,400 there. Like, how does that make any 267 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,240 sense? So we all start digging a little 268 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,240 bit more. So and Ben, just so people do 269 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,440 know with the the way the lineups are posted is it kind of 270 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,240 like it could be a game of chicken up until lock. 271 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,880 When it's frozen where you're looking and you're refreshing, 272 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,320 you're refreshing, you're refreshing it. 273 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,560 If they change it with a minute left before lock you could then 274 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,960 go re change. No, it doesn't actually show 275 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,160 before. It doesn't always. 276 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,440 That's what I'm trying to clarify. 277 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,720 It's like. Maybe it did when we we're like, 278 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,600 wait, does it show? Is there a screw up there? 279 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,960 Is there? There is no way. 280 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,360 No. To do that the way we have since 281 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,360 learned that that isn't a thing once. 282 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,560 Once lock hits, that's when the line UPS show and you're not 283 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:52,120 able to change as a user at that point. 284 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,920 Yeah, right. So. 285 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,080 Then you then see that they have the Travis Kelsey which you have 286 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,520 screenshots of saying no, it should be Rashi Rice. 287 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,840 Then where do you guys go to try to figure out what's going on? 288 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,280 So the first thing is just trying to understand how this 289 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,520 even got changed. What was there a software error? 290 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,400 What happened? And as we're digging around, 291 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:21,120 Draco finds in the logs A transaction was made at 6:46. 292 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:26,640 This screenshot says on the way right 646 Eastern Time. 293 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,200 Now this is actually not correct. 294 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,640 The Eastern Time it's listed. All of these are listed in 295 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,840 Central Time, but on this screen for some reason it it shows 296 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,280 Eastern Time, but the reason that you'll know that it was 297 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,480 Central Time you look at all the transactions before. 298 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,400 Our transaction is highlighted at the top where we added Kelsey 299 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,160 right before Lock 520-8528, 520-8529. 300 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,000 This is all of the teams in this contest. 301 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,680 You can go look at this log, it still exists there. 302 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,240 The transaction undoing the rice Kelsey is now added, but you 303 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,560 could you could go look at this log if you wanted to. 304 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,800 But all of those other transactions are happening right 305 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,160 up to the 530 cut off which is 5:30 central time. 306 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,000 The game started at 6:30 Eastern Time, but when we first noticed 307 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,080 this transaction, we thought it happened 16 minutes after lock. 308 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,000 What we've come to understand because this screen is actually 309 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,960 displaying Eastern Time but it is actually Central time and we 310 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,200 have another screenshot of our transaction at 5:28 that shows 311 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,800 Central time. Just to confirm that this is the 312 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,600 stat chasing transaction that we made on 1/21 at the bottom there 313 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,720 528 Central time. It is just a display issue on 314 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,600 the other thing and that's why all the transactions stop at 315 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,280 529. It is 530 lock. 316 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,000 The other transaction happens an hour and 16 minutes later, not 317 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,840 16 minutes later. We thought man maybe kick off 318 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:49,040 was just delayed 16 minutes and for some reason the the ads and 319 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,960 drops were locked until the ball was actually kicked off. 320 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,720 But you could see our roster and so like that's that's not fair. 321 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:56,760 Those things should have happened at the same. 322 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,240 Time doesn't even climb up. It doesn't quite work out, but 323 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,600 we're what are. We're trying to think through 324 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,560 things, right? But then it turns out it's an 325 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,040 hour and 16 minutes later and we're like, wait, somehow they 326 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,040 were able to change this an hour and 16 minutes later. 327 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,800 That's a long way into the game. When did Travis Kelsey scores? 328 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,880 First touchdown. That's we're asking in the chat, 329 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:21,760 like three people go check and we find that it happened at 6:43 330 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:26,000 Central. Yeah, Central Time, 7:43 Eastern 331 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,920 Time. I went and checked my DVR. 332 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,200 It happened 3 minutes before Rashi Rice was removed from the 333 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,320 line up and Travis Kelsey was entered into the web. 334 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,720 For this team name here that if you are are watching this on the 335 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,760 screen, share the team name is Red Solo Cup 2 this team How 336 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,000 many teams did Red Solo Cup have in this contest? 337 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:52,280 Then six different teams and all named Red Solo Cup 123456. 338 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,200 I've never found six. I found one through. 339 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,760 They were all named one through 5. 340 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,480 The first five that I ended up looking at. 341 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,480 So the next thing we do once we realized that this user somehow 342 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,160 has access to make changes after things are locked is, well has 343 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,280 he done this before? Right. 344 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,480 And so we start looking at other stuff. 345 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:11,640 We look at all of his other teams. 346 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,480 I did not find any issues on any of the other rosters in the 347 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,200 logs. I did find something that was 348 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:24,520 weird in this particular team the week prior. 349 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,520 And so we started flagging that and discussing that and we 350 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,400 didn't really understand that. So this is something that's we 351 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,080 get into a little bit of the technical element of the the NFC 352 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,520 site. So the last screenshot when 353 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,160 you're making a one for one change in this third column 354 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,440 type, it was showing add and drop and it was showing when you 355 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,400 make changes to your line UPS there's an ad or a drop ad Drop 356 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,440 ad drop this next screenshot that Pete pulled up. 357 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,240 When you submit a full line up it just lists move for all of 358 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,840 them. I'm not entirely sure why it's 359 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,880 it also lists move when you just move a guy around from flex to 360 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,080 running back or whatever. But when you it's when you 361 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,240 submit a full line up it lists move all the way down and so 362 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,800 this was the same red solo cup to roster known none of his 363 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,320 other rosters. Week 19 he submits a full line 364 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,680 up on 1/12 which is Friday before the contest. 365 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,440 The game started playing on Saturday. 366 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,560 You can see it goes from quarterback all the way down 367 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,200 through defense. The only other transaction he 368 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:33,720 makes after that is another full line up at 11411 O 6:00 PM. 369 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,240 This is again Central time. So it's it. 370 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,360 It's after the game was played. The only difference between 371 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:43,840 these two rosters. If you look through the 372 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,440 screenshot, these two line UPS are identical. 373 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,520 The first one has Raheem Monster. 374 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,520 The second one has Aaron Jones. So this user after Green Bay and 375 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,920 Dallas played, made what is a massive change to a line up that 376 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,280 otherwise pretty much had the nuts. 377 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,440 So I'll highlight It has puka nakua on this team in a loss. 378 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,480 A really important piece. It has Dak Prescott on this team 379 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,120 in a loss. A really important piece. 380 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,840 This user was playing a Baltimore Dallas Super Bowl with 381 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,720 Dak advancing, but after Jack lost, he became a really 382 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,760 interesting piece. If you had played the other side 383 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,640 of that game as well and you had Aaron Jones advancing. 384 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,000 When we first saw his lineup, like this guy was sharp as hell. 385 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,440 He played DAC two different ways. 386 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,040 He played DAC to the Super Bowl but also if he gets upset he's 387 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,080 got Aaron Jones advancing and he gets A1 game monster score out 388 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,600 of DAC which would have been the nuts. 389 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,520 And so when he makes this one pivot it makes DAC A1 off piece 390 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,040 that is a really like high scoring one off piece that he 391 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,840 can. Then in that you get 2 392 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,880 quarterbacks and the way the quarterback stuff works is a 393 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,280 little bit tricky. But he can then add Brock Purdy 394 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,520 the next week to his Christian McCaffrey and then play San 395 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,480 Francisco pretty optimally if you start with McCaffrey and add 396 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,880 Purdy. And so it's not a big miss to 397 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,360 have played DAC and lose in the first week. 398 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,280 But he didn't actually have a Green Bay Packer on his initial 399 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,120 line up. He had Mostert instead. 400 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,360 He switches this and it does a few different things for him. 401 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,680 It makes Dak that a really impressive 1 off piece. 402 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,800 It makes Aaron Jones this really impressed this extremely 403 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,840 important advancing piece. 3 touchdowns in the first game and 404 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,360 you have a Packer for the next round. 405 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,280 There's not a lot of people play the Packers. 406 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,240 As a reminder, the the Dolphins game was on Saturday, so this is 407 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,080 post Brahim monster scoring 4 points in a Dolphin's loss. 408 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,560 All of a sudden Monster becomes very undesirable. 409 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,960 Dolphin's Fade becomes. That's the third thing. 410 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:35,120 The Dolphin's fade is the third element. 411 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,960 So you make this one switch and it gives you some. 412 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,160 Like as we're going to learn with some of the explanations we 413 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,640 are giving it gives you some plausible deniability like oh, 414 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,280 it was a mistake but this. So there's not a ton of changes. 415 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,440 But they got away with this Aaron Jones won one week and 416 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,520 then they tried it with Travis Kelsey again the next week. 417 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,240 And once you have two, that's when the IT becomes undeniable 418 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,080 and. Once we're looking at your line 419 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,280 up all, all morning and yeah. So can you explain 'cause I 420 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,640 think one thing, Nen is looking through the transaction logs 421 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,640 where something fishy was going on in both cases. 422 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,000 Why is one of them an ad drop in the Kelsey rice? 423 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,800 And why is one of them just a move as if a flex player was 424 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,920 being shuffled to a wide receiver or whatever? 425 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,240 I believe it's just a technicality on the NFC site. 426 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,480 Pat you you've thought through this as well and I'd love to 427 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,080 hear your explanation as well. My understanding is when you 428 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,040 first submit your line up it shows the full line up and it 429 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,120 says move for all and then if you decide to make changes 430 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,120 you're removing and adding it so then it doesn't add drop like 431 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,200 you're making a swap. But when you first get in there 432 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,480 you have to set a full line up. I don't know why the whole 433 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,600 second one would be move unless a full line up is being 434 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,640 submitted elsewhere. And the and the explanation we 435 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,040 ended up getting would be one reason that an admin was 436 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,200 resubmitting a full lineup behind the scenes is potentially 437 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,880 the the reason that you would have a full list of moves twice 438 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,800 because don't think any other reason you'd have a full a full 439 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,520 roster submitted twice. It would all be ad drops after 440 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,480 that point I think. That's what I was going to say, 441 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,160 because if you tried to go submit a a lineup for a player 442 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,080 that had already played, it would say like invalid. 443 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,520 It would not let you select it, which is why you have to do it 444 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,600 within the confines of the rules, which is an ad drop, but 445 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,680 in this case it probably required some kind of admin 446 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,840 thing to allow a submitted line up post lock. 447 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,400 Yeah, and to be clear, both of these changes, although they 448 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,280 were recorded differently in the log as different types of move, 449 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,880 both were executed by an NFC employee and were not done by 450 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,240 the user himself. So you know, they they were are 451 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,000 recorded differently, but they but it's not like the user did 452 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,560 one of these moves and the employee did the other. 453 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,840 Both were done by someone with admin powers. 454 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,080 And so I I oh, go ahead. Yeah, no, no I was I was going 455 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,440 to say I I keep alluding to this explanation we got. 456 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:03,120 So once we talked to NFCA little bit about this initially we 457 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,840 talked to them about why was there a move allowed after 458 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,800 Locke. That was our conversation Sunday 459 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,640 night. It wasn't until Monday and and 460 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,160 and sort of more digging essentially that we kind of 461 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,920 uncovered the Aaron Jones thing and started to realize like this 462 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:22,720 is probably cheating of of some sort And we were discussing with 463 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,600 them. The the explanation we were 464 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:30,840 given is that the admin sub that was contacted by a user who 465 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,800 could not see the live scoring and they resubmitted that user's 466 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,600 line up so that they could hopefully see it and they made a 467 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,440 mistake and they swapped accidentally swapped Rishi Rice 468 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,920 for Travis Kelsey in the line up. 469 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,600 Our our response was that sounds hard to believe given that it 470 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,400 happened 3 minutes after Travis Kelsey scored a touchdown and 471 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,760 the mistake was to add Travis Kelsey to the line up. 472 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,680 But then when we brought up the Aaron Jones thing that's when it 473 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,440 became clear that there was more to happen and NFC has done a lot 474 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,160 of work behind the scenes released a statement we'll get 475 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,240 into all of that. But the that explanation is very 476 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,320 interesting because that's not the way the logs show the rice 477 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,760 for Kelsey change. They show that as an ad drop. 478 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,920 It is the way they show the Aaron Jones thing where it was a 479 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,520 whole resubmitted line up and there was a a mistake. 480 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,760 Oh, I accidentally clicked Aaron Jones instead of Mostert. 481 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,680 It's like it was a pre packaged answer that would be given if it 482 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,040 if you were caught. And the logs look like the Aaron 483 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,840 Jones move, but it doesn't actually fit the Kelsey rice 484 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,640 move which was just a one for one ad drop behind the scenes 485 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,280 somehow. It's so. 486 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,480 And once we learned that because we received word when we were 487 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,400 communicating with the NFC that it was an employee who made it, 488 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,480 we started to do a little bit of digging too. 489 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,800 Because I was curious, who is this user? 490 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,360 Red Solo Cup? The user is named Bradley 491 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,640 Willis, This employee's name is Derek Bucher. 492 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,360 And you know, just me wanting to do a little sleuthing on 493 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,600 Twitter, see if there's any connections started poking 494 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:04,960 around for their Twitter accounts. 495 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,360 He ended up finding a very long history of public communication 496 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,960 for these guys, literally spanning A decade. 497 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,120 I should also mention Derek's Twitter account has now been 498 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:20,240 deactivated. But we have screenshots and I 499 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,400 can pull up some of these here. This was one, a really old one 500 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,240 from September 22nd 2012. Brad Willis, who he believed to 501 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:29,880 be behind the account Red Solo cup. 502 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,440 At least that's how it's publicly listed. 503 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,000 Bradley Willis interacting with Derek, saying make sure you hit 504 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,720 the red pepper and especially remembering your favorite cousin 505 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,400 back in Lakeville. Derek even in his Twitter bio 506 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,960 says he's from Lakeville. We do not know if they are 507 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,160 actually related, but it felt very, very clear scrolling 508 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,160 through their communication that not only are they friendly, but 509 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,040 they're very good friends and have been for a very long time. 510 00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:00,080 So the explanation we were given that a user called and said they 511 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,640 couldn't see live scoring and in a line up was submitted so that 512 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,920 they could see live scoring was quickly shown to be not. 513 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,840 This isn't any old user, even if the guy, even if it had. 514 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,640 This isn't any old user who's calling and of course. 515 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,800 There's a personal relationship that spans more than a decade 516 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:23,080 between these two individual the person that the the admin 517 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,840 changed the line up for and accidentally put Travis Kelsey 518 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,680 in the line up and also Oh yeah, accidentally put Aaron Jones in 519 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,680 last week is. And didn't actually resubmit a 520 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,160 line up during the Chiefs game, only replaced Hershey Rice with 521 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,400 Travis Kelsey and did nothing else. 522 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,560 And another thing that we should mention with all of this stuff, 523 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,560 you know, partly I recognize the name Derek Bucher. 524 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,320 I'm not, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. 525 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,400 But because we did a deal with NFC this year, those of you guys 526 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,640 who have been watching on the channel know that we played in 527 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,560 multiple of their high stakes contest. 528 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,880 We interacted with Greg who is the head over there. 529 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,400 We even did some live events at their Vegas drafts. 530 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,880 One of the reasons I was familiar with this name, Derek, 531 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,560 is because anytime I corresponded with Greg about 532 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,440 tech stuff. Hey, can we get a link, a 533 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,960 landing page, et cetera, et cetera. 534 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,640 Derek was always CC. He was heavily involved in NFC 535 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,280 operations, specifically on the back end with anything tech 536 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,200 supporting. Again, I don't know the entire 537 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,400 purview of what his role is, but I do know that when we were 538 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,320 interacting with him, even when I was having stuff with moving 539 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,680 Money around to enter us into a contest, Derek was CC D on that. 540 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,560 He was involved with all of this stuff. 541 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,800 So that's just to say he was a very prominent member behind the 542 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,240 scenes and it makes sense that he would have access to a lot of 543 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,160 the mechanics of the NFC site. And when you say was, it's 544 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,640 because in the statement they have acknowledged that they have 545 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:52,960 fired an employee. They don't name the employee 546 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,800 probably for legal reasons. But it's our understanding that 547 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,880 that that is Derek and he that he is no longer with NFC. 548 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,200 At this, the time of our recording, which is just a few 549 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,480 days after this happened, we're still getting our heads wrapped 550 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,280 around all of this, yes? Yeah, this just to again to 551 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,320 frame the timeline. Everyone remembers the the 552 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,840 Chiefs and Bill's game. That was on refresh my memory. 553 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,320 When was that game? Sunday night. 554 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,840 Sunday night. So this is all that happened and 555 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,240 we're recording this on Wednesday evening around 8:00 PM 556 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,360 Eastern. So, and we we didn't know until 557 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:32,040 Monday. We I, I did send Greg some 558 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,280 emails, a couple emails because then we started to see the time 559 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,480 stamps on Sunday night asking why was this user able to do 560 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,000 this, Did your software malfunction. 561 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,840 He let us know in the morning it was not a software issue. 562 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,800 I'm told that an admin made this change. 563 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,920 I'm going to do more research throughout the day Monday. 564 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,720 That's Pete. I think when you uncovered the 565 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,040 some of the the Twitter links and some of the social media 566 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,720 links, we were starting to piece things together and be like, OK, 567 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,680 this is different than what we actually thought it was. 568 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,760 This is actually something you know a lot more serious. 569 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,120 So it wasn't even until like late in the day Monday that we 570 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,600 were able to to determine that like what what has actually 571 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,680 happened here that these guys have a a relationship that 572 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,960 there's a lot of other things and then there's you get hit in 573 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,640 the head with so many things. And and part of the reason we're 574 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,520 doing this as a recorded show rather than our typical live 575 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,360 show is there are so many ways that you can speculate from 576 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,560 here. I think all of our, we don't 577 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,280 want to do any speculation, but I, I think all of our listeners 578 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,000 are smart enough that the first question they're going to ask is 579 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,320 how long has this been going on? We're showing you tweets from 580 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,760 2012. There's a lot of other things 581 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,800 Greg has assured us and says in the statement that this is the 582 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,680 first time. It does seem hard to believe 583 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,240 that we caught the first time, but he does. 584 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,080 You know, we we have some scepticism about that. 585 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,320 But he does say that in the statement he has not found 586 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,080 anything else. They've they are doing a full 587 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:54,120 review and they have banned the user in addition to determining 588 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,040 the employee. So. 589 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,880 Yeah, our our understanding is because Bradley played a bunch 590 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,160 of regular season stuff this year. 591 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,160 So they've gone through the logs for all the regular season going 592 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,000 back through all their logs, I believe they switched to the the 593 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,840 software that they're currently on in 2021 I believe. 594 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,400 And so you know they're but they have logs from the previous 595 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,200 system as well as my understanding and they're 596 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,080 reviewing all of that to confirm that there is no additional 597 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,280 instances of this. But all we know, you know is 598 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:37,200 that we were able and we were able to to review the logs for 599 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,600 his other teams in this contest. This is the only thing that we 600 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:42,960 found. We found these two moves on this 601 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,120 one team. And it it's hard because we we 602 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,600 know what is publicly available, the NFC they do have those 603 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,800 publicly available accounts, but we have no idea how the back end 604 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,840 system works. We don't know what kind of 605 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,520 potential override. You know we we don't know 606 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,120 anything other than what's publicly available that is still 607 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,560 publicly available to anyone on the NFC website. 608 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,280 They have said that they're leaving those transactions up 609 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,680 for the sake of transparency. But just being clear, you know 610 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,960 we all we have is what is publicly available. 611 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,840 We were able to use that to uncover this, but we can't, you 612 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,800 know, fully know the scope of that other than taking NF CS 613 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,480 word for what they say. Even in this contest where they 614 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,760 show all these transactions, which is great that there's a 615 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,080 log, we can't see past years transaction logs as far as I 616 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,280 understand. I actually did not do that 617 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,120 research myself. I'm pretty sure Pat you were 618 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,360 talking with with Sack and Draco about that a little bit, but 619 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,360 that's right, right. We can see the results but not 620 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,680 the transaction logs. Yeah, I'm not. 621 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,560 I'm not sure I know. Well, I believe NFC can, but I 622 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,760 don't know that we can. We cannot I'm, I'm almost 623 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:46,960 positive. I just don't want to say 624 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,800 something wrong, but I'm I'm almost positive we can't see any 625 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,480 of the transactions in past years on the site And as a 626 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,360 result like we're not, I mean we're not doing like. 627 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,040 Our investigation is limited to. Right. 628 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,080 And we're not like, I mean like we've we've kind of talked about 629 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,800 this feels like an investigation behind, you know, between 630 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,040 ourselves, but like we're not trying to investigate anything. 631 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,520 We just ran into this, right. It's like what what do you do? 632 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,400 You start pulling threads, and there's certain things that we 633 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,640 can't see, right? There's threads we can't pull. 634 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,200 Yeah. And like again, like the whole 635 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,240 part of this I mentioned, you know, us doing a deal with NFC 636 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,880 and a huge reason we're doing the show is because we promoted 637 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,320 this site. We told our viewers, our 638 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,880 listeners, hey, we're excited to play on this site, come play on 639 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,240 this site with us. You know, we exchanged promotion 640 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,160 for free entries into contest. So we feel like we have a big 641 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,560 burden on us to not only, you know, share what we uncovered, 642 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,840 but allow people to know that this happened as APSA. 643 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,800 And that's the thing that sucks. Like there is the thing of like, 644 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,080 oh, we we uncovered this, we investigated it that that feels 645 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,720 good. But it also sucks. 646 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,000 Like we told people that you can play on this site and if we 647 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,080 wouldn't have uncovered it, people we said should play in 648 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,160 this hold'em contest would have been defrauded in this contest 649 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,400 via and that sucks. And that's why we feel the onus 650 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,200 of telling you guys literally everything we know, everything 651 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,560 we've done these past few days and and it's been nice to see 652 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,480 some of the steps that Greg is making through his statement and 653 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,600 this. But I I feel very shitty about 654 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:29,320 how this has transpired after we put our, you know, you know how 655 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,160 people view us, you know, our reputation's on the line with 656 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,080 this site. And so I I think all three of us 657 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,600 felt very strongly about kind of being super public about what 658 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,680 happened. Totally. 659 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,960 And I mean the the the other flip side of this is just that 660 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,880 it is really hard to wrap your head around what happened here. 661 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,360 I mean the only time I've ever heard really anything like this 662 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,400 is like 12 team home leagues. Like you hear about it like in 663 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,960 high school right. Or like I when I was working at 664 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,560 CBS you'd hear about these like because people are playing in 665 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,440 these public leagues are commissioner he he changed the 666 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,040 his buddies you know quarterback after Locke and he this is a 667 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,440 this is a tournament with a six figure prize to 1st place and 668 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,000 they were changing. They put Aaron Jones in the 669 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,280 lineup after the game was either completed or like in the fourth 670 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,960 quarter. I'm not 100% I didn't want 100% 671 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,880 check the the central time zone thing there but very late in the 672 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,320 game because it's eleven O 8 or whatever is a time stamp there. 673 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,520 I'm Pacific Coast so games end at 9:00 here. 674 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,520 It's always it always throws me off but that I mean you're 675 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,120 putting a player in after he scores 3 touchdowns like a 16 676 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,480 year old does in his twelve team league and is like I'm going to 677 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,159 I'm going to win the championship and no one's going 678 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,440 to notice this And then his buddy calls him out on it and 679 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:46,480 then you know that gets talked about on some you know mass mass 680 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,920 audience fantasy football show where they have to you know 681 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,760 answer questions like this and everyone everyone agrees yeah 682 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,520 you kick that guy out of the league and you move on. 683 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,560 But like, I mean to to this is one of those things that like 684 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,920 people have conspiracy theorists have speculated about this type 685 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,960 of thing happenings. An employee at a site with a 686 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,600 major tournament with a lot of money in the line, changing 687 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:14,040 lineups so that their buddy can win or that the site can win and 688 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,080 then they don't have to pay out the prizes or whatever. 689 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,960 You know, like you see these tweets and things. 690 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,600 It's just it's crazy the way that as we've pulled this thread 691 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,720 this week in these last couple days, that this is like what 692 00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:28,560 actually happened. I mean it's it's it's bizarre. 693 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,200 It's hard. It's hard to grasp, honestly. 694 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,640 And even I'm sure some people like, again, as we mentioned at 695 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,120 the top of the show, like there's not even like a clean 696 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,800 way for us to explain the mechanics of this tournament. 697 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,920 Like, again, anyone who watched our show, it is a it's a 698 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,040 complicated tournament. Like even the levels of game 699 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,720 theory, we've gone back and forth with Leone on how they 700 00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:49,240 attack it. Draco, it's sacrilegious. 701 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,760 It is an epic puzzle. Like, I don't think there's a 702 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,960 game in fantasy that is more complicated that we've played or 703 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,280 encountered than this one. And so I do think it is for 704 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,240 explaining some of those mechanics, and hopefully we did 705 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:04,560 a good job doing so. But, you know, the reason we 706 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,880 were able to do it is just because we got so obsessed with 707 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,600 this contest of Draco and sacrilegious and Gretch really 708 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,040 being in the weeds on it. Because otherwise, I don't think 709 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,880 we ever, ever figure this. Out and really Draco, Draco and 710 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,960 SAC. I mean huge hat tip to those 711 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,600 guys like I mean they they've been so in the weeds on this as 712 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,400 you said since the very beginning were very integral in 713 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,680 pulling some of these threads and doing some of the research. 714 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,840 Drico's the one who found the first log he's the one who I 715 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,480 know was pushing for that swap that we ended up doing that led 716 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,920 to this and was highlighting some of the other teams was 717 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,600 leading a lot of those conversations and Sack was right 718 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,560 there with them. Those guys, I mean they're 719 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,960 they're are incredible guys at at stat chase you know that that 720 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,320 do stat chasing every week. Obviously follow them like all 721 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,160 their work, whatever, but just want to give them a ton of 722 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,640 credit for being like hugely important parts of of uncovering 723 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,280 this. For sure. 724 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,680 I thought we could. This release came out about a 725 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,040 couple hours ago. There is kind of an official 726 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:11,560 legalese, you know, element here from the lawyers at NFC. 727 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,960 And then Greg followed it up. I thought we could pass along 728 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,920 some of the things, he said. A lot of this we've already 729 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,080 covered here, but just to punctuate at the team, this is 730 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,320 the Red Solo Cup and all of his teams are now locked and he is 731 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,200 ineligible to ever play in the NFC contest. 732 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,040 The employee who we referenced has been terminated for cause. 733 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,320 And then Greg kind of gets into how we were able to uncover it 734 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,120 with the public transaction logs, and he goes on to say 735 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,600 nothing is more important than the integrity of our contest. 736 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,160 Nothing. Nobody trusts us with their 737 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,200 money. If anything can happen, I'm sad, 738 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,520 I'm disappointed, I'm shocked, I'm mad, I'm so mad. 739 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,720 But we can never let something like this happen. 740 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,640 And we now have safeguards in place to alert multiple people 741 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,360 if this ever happened again, which it won't. 742 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,960 The contest remains intact and this didn't affect anyone else's 743 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,800 teams. This owner's teams have been 744 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,400 eliminated in the employee release. 745 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,000 So sorry that I can't say more, but please understand that we 746 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,000 thank those who alerted us to the situation and we acted 747 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,480 immediately and with the appropriate punishments. 748 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,680 Thanks. And I'm not sure if he mentions 749 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,680 it here, but he also told us that they're now going to 750 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,240 partner with a company that. That's an initial statement, OK. 751 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,480 So that that has been our week guys, ever since Draco and 752 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,760 sacrilegious got to the bottom of this and us going down the 753 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,760 rabbit hole, presenting all of this to Greg and and letting him 754 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,520 know there was a huge problem and they needed to start fixing 755 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,240 things. I don't feel comfortable right 756 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:41,760 now saying if things are fully fixed or not. 757 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,080 It's only been a couple of days. I think I'm encouraged by some 758 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,480 of the steps, but we wanted to get this show out now 759 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,480 specifically because this contest is ongoing. 760 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,320 Moves are still going to be made this weekend for the conference 761 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,120 championship. There's a lot of money on the 762 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,040 line and we really wanted to alert people that this has been 763 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,480 occurring up to this point because it brings up a lot of 764 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,040 questions and hopefully we answered some of them tonight. 765 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,840 I think we've done a really good job illuminating at least what 766 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,680 happened. There's lots of whys and follow 767 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,880 up questions, but we do have some facts that, you know, 768 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,040 collusion, cheating, whatever you want to call it occurred in 769 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520 this contest that we have entries in, that our friends 770 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,040 have entries in that ship chasers have entries in, and we 771 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,800 owed it to everyone to get this out. 772 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,880 So everyone can make their own informed decisions, decide what 773 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,640 kind of actions they want to take. 774 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,400 Yeah, I mean you you said it really well. 775 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,280 We wanted to be fully transparent. 776 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,920 We wanted to let the the listeners of this show who put 777 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,200 their trust in our recommendations on who to play 778 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,440 in their line UPS, but also the recommendations on where to 779 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,280 play. And we have implicitly told them 780 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,120 to trust the sites that we play on and talk about playing on and 781 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,800 do content around. We wanted to be. 782 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,040 I mean it was immediately clear we were all in lockstep. 783 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,280 We were saying we were in lockstep. 784 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,080 It was cool. And it's one of the things that 785 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,560 I love about working with you guys is when we first did really 786 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,200 touch base on this. And you know some of the initial 787 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,320 conversations were with Draco and Sack Pat, you were a little 788 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,680 bit busy. Pete, you were on vacation this 789 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,960 weekend like we were. We were talking touching base on 790 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,720 on Monday and we were all immediately very clear. 791 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:16,720 The number one thing is we wanted to be very transparent 792 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:21,640 with our whatever you call viewers, subscribers, listeners, 793 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,840 people that that follow ship chasing in any kind of way that 794 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,400 they would know what we know that we're not holding anything 795 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,120 back in those things. And then like you said Pete, as 796 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,080 far as timing, this is an ongoing contest. 797 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,000 It ultimately had to be this week. 798 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,800 We weren't going to sit on this and needed to be as soon as as 799 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,000 possible really talk to NFCA little bit. 800 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,280 They got some things done and and released a statement and 801 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,280 then you know we certainly want to give some time to to handle 802 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,960 this, how they wanted to handle this, but then wanted to be able 803 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,040 to to share this stuff in full transparency and and where we 804 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,840 fit into all of it. Yeah, and to in truth be told to 805 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,680 give this a wider reach, a bigger platform, you know, I 806 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,840 don't know the full extent of how NFC is going to communicate 807 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,880 it. As I know now it is on message 808 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,720 boards there. I have as of this time I haven't 809 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:12,360 checked, but before the show I had not seen it on social, 810 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,480 hadn't seen it in an e-mail to their to their users. 811 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,520 I generally get emails from them on site wide. 812 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,480 Things about new condos haven't seen that yet. 813 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:25,000 So I do feel like the onus is on us to put this story out there 814 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,680 in a larger way. Like people in the fantasy space 815 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,280 need to know about this. This isn't something that gets 816 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,480 brushed under the rug. I'm not saying that's what 817 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,320 they're doing, but I feel like it's our responsibility to put 818 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,560 this out there so everyone knows what happened. 819 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,720 Right, with the, I mean regardless of what NFC does, 820 00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:43,400 it's sort of as we've discussed we we talked about this contest, 821 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,440 right. It's not just that we did NFC 822 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,800 season long stuff. We talked about this contest the 823 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:56,600 week before the wild card round. Yeah, exactly. 824 00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:58,600 Not a link to register for this contest. 825 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:06,320 So we then had an obligation to share with our our viewers what 826 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,120 had happened here. This is, you know, it's kind of 827 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,840 like regardless of what NFC does in terms of getting a statement 828 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,800 out and and publicizing the statement, we kind of have our 829 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:21,560 own obligation I think as we've directed people to this site in 830 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:27,920 this contest and we had a time time sensitive obligation given 831 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,640 that it's an ongoing contest. So, yeah, I mean, I don't think 832 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,520 we really have that much more to say. 833 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,280 We've kind of shared everything we have with you guys kind of 834 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,920 chronologically, all the kind of evidence that we were able to 835 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,560 put together and feel very thankful that it was a 836 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,960 compelling enough set of evidence that action has started 837 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,000 to be taken and and that's encouraging there. 838 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,600 But yeah, I don't really know where else we go from here other 839 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,800 than putting this out there and and letting things continue to 840 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,400 play out. Agreed. 841 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,120 I mean, there's a lot of questions. 842 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,360 We said this. We've done a lot of speculation 843 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:06,960 behind the scenes. We don't want to add a ton of 844 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,800 speculation here. People are going to have a lot 845 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,240 of questions. There's going to be a lot that 846 00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:15,720 that probably comes from this or presumably I mean like when you 847 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:18,120 think about the the scope of what this could be, but it's 848 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,720 not, you know, this is not the forum for for those types of 849 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:23,320 discussions as as we had already talked about. 850 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:28,480 But that's not my my main point being we're not saying that's 851 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,560 the end of the story. Obviously, I think there's going 852 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,320 to be a lot of people. But like you said a minute ago, 853 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,160 Pete, we're just going to kind of we, we we were tending to 854 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,200 kind of just give what we know and then let people kind of form 855 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,960 their own conclusions or or do their own research or or think 856 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,480 what they want to think. Ultimately make their own 857 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,520 decisions about, you know what they want to do from here. 858 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:50,160 Yeah, and I'll include a link to the forum post in the show notes 859 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:51,880 of this video if you guys want to read. 860 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,560 You know, if you guys are ship chasers and you guys want to 861 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,160 talk to us in the Discord, certainly understand if you guys 862 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,080 have specific concerns as it pertains to us, we'll definitely 863 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,800 make ourselves available to answer anything that we know. 864 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,600 You know, we aren't going to be publicly speculating any 865 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,400 further, but I can promise you as we learn cold hard facts, we 866 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,680 will always share those with you guys as they come across star 867 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,800 radar. Pat, anything else here before 868 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,960 we get out of here? No, nothing else from me. 869 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,960 Well, thanks again as Ben highlighted to Draco and 870 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:32,000 sacrilegious who are just so sharp and that kind of level of, 871 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,280 you know, attentiveness, you know, really helping us unearth 872 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,320 this, which is it would have been a very scary thing for this 873 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,000 kind of stuff to continue on going and for us to be unaware 874 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,280 as we play on this site. So again, really want to thank 875 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,640 them for all their hard work. And very quickly as well they 876 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,200 were. They were uncovering stuff by 877 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,560 the minute, it felt like. I mean it's so funny you said 878 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,000 the I mean like we had so much fun talking strategy and 879 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,720 everything. It was almost like desperation. 880 00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:58,840 Like oh man, this guy got gets Kelsey in there. 881 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,560 We're screwed now. We've had so much fun building 882 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,960 this team out and everything that I mean those guys 883 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,000 immediately. I mean they do they did exactly 884 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,520 what anyone would do. You you're looking through and 885 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,920 and trying to figure out, you know what if your own team is 886 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,160 blocked and what what the paths for your own team are. 887 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,720 And so anyway, it it's it's just wild. 888 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,880 Like I'm I'm sorry, my mind is still just blown by all of this. 889 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,920 It's it's been like just completely like dropping 890 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,600 whatever veil or whatever. It's been a lot for us to 891 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,120 process this past week. And you know, getting all of 892 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,360 this out there, it feels cathartic for us because we've 893 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,480 been going down these rabbit holes, really trying to think 894 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,320 how to process everything that happened. 895 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,640 So I feel good that we were able to record this show. 896 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,880 We are going to post this now, so it will be, you know, 897 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,200 recording it on a Wednesday evening. 898 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:50,840 We'll be live here on a Wednesday evening. 899 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,560 Yeah, we appreciate all of you guys who stick with us through 900 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,000 thick and thin, through the ups and downs and all that stuff 901 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,160 here. And yeah, we'll be back. 902 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,560 You know, for our our usual stuff. 903 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,400 We're going to do a shift cast on Sunday night. 904 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,480 Feels weird to to promote something at the end of the 905 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,120 show, but I don't know what else to do other than to say we'll 906 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,440 see you on Sunday night for a shift cast, but other than that, 907 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,520 really, genuinely appreciate all of you guys and we'll talk to 908 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:16,320 you soon. Peace.