1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,720 We are the only organization in the world we know of that can 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,560 give immediate pricing for every one of these unique activities. 3 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:08,920 So whether it's civil engineering, electrical 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,480 engineering, substation engineering, permit 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,800 applications, etcetera, we can fix those prices upfront for the 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:17,760 first time. You're taking all these things 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,520 that like someone else would have charged $100,000 for and 8 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,080 you're like, I just did the math. 9 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:27,400 You're like Costco, you're like, that cost me $1943. 10 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,280 I don't think I'll just charge a 5% markup on there and just 11 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,280 charge people. I'm like Daniel, you can charge 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:40,200 $20,000 for that. Hello, my name is Jigar Shah and 13 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,400 I'm a clean energy entrepreneur. And I'm Jamie Nolan, a Clean 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,240 Energy communications executive. And this is Energy Empire. 15 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,440 Hi Jigger, I haven't seen you in a couple of. 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:50,920 Weeks, I know. Welcome back. 17 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,640 How is your health? It's good for anyone who missed 18 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,000 the memo. I was so sad. 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,680 I missed the recording with Katherine Blunt. 20 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,880 I contracted salmonella food poisoning, which like you think 21 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,120 is an urban legend. They always tell you to like, 22 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,920 practice good food safety, but it's real. 23 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,480 I'm here to tell you that it's very real. 24 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,880 And it was extremely unpleasant. So Oh my God, but I'm back. 25 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,600 I'm 100% thanks for covering for me while I was out and I'm 26 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,800 excited to talk to Daniel Deuce. Yeah, this morning I had to go 27 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,760 to my son's school. They all had to pick an 28 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,440 important topic that they wanted to do a presentation on. 29 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,120 And of course, my son picked clean energy and why it's so 30 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,040 important to get off of fossil fuels. 31 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,080 And so like, I'm like crying, you know, over at the episode, 32 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:42,400 he created a pop up book of like all these like wind power and 33 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,000 tidal power and solar panels that like popped up. 34 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,360 And he even had like a detailed presentation on how a solar cell 35 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,280 worked. That's awesome. 36 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,120 I mean no surprise, but we may need Dylan to make a little 37 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,360 cameo and do a do a show and tell for the audience. 38 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,680 That sounds so cool. Well, Daniel is amazing. 39 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,160 I have known Daniel for years, Full disclosure. 40 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,639 Funny enough, like one of the other people I work with closely 41 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,880 is a guy named Richard Dover. And Daniel and Richard don't 42 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,440 like each other because they they had like a lawsuit with 43 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,640 each other like many years ago when Daniel wasn't a previous 44 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,760 job and Richard was her previous job. 45 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,800 I don't know whether they buried the hatchet, but I like both. 46 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,880 Daniel. Appreciate you airing their 47 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,560 dirty Laundry jigger on our podcast. 48 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,600 Go ahead. I mean, that's how we do. 49 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,920 But I like Daniel and I like Richard, so it's good. 50 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:38,440 But I think but Daniel is like a class act and he we all know 51 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,360 that he gives up himself all the time, right? 52 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,520 He does the big solar Fight Night thing. 53 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,960 So I'm really excited to get into all of the things that he 54 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,560 does, why he does them. I think I'm I'm here to like 55 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,720 yell at him for like underpricing his services, which 56 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,120 I think he does. I think he provides so much 57 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,320 value he should charge for, but we'll see how he responds. 58 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,040 I do love that refrain that you constantly have. 59 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,000 And I would say his company, Cleantech Industry Resources, 60 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,000 it's one of those companies that when you get the pitch, you're 61 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,360 like, why are you not like huge? Why are you not like famous? 62 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,920 Why are you not rich? Like, it's just one of those 63 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:19,400 concepts that makes so much sense. 64 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,800 So I'm really excited to share that with our audience. 65 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,760 Yeah. I have no doubt in my mind that 66 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,120 one day he will be rich. But I think that, you know, what 67 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,640 he's doing right now is unlocking real value for solar 68 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:33,600 projects. As many people know, solar has 69 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,040 gotten a little bit more expensive actually to install 70 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,120 the last two or three years. And I think his product is 71 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,360 getting us back on track to reducing the cost of delivering 72 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,040 solar to customers. Absolutely. 73 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,040 And it all ties back to energy affordability, and this is just 74 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,560 like another company that is doing groundbreaking work and 75 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,640 driving down the cost of power. So I'm excited to talk to him. 76 00:03:53,880 --> 00:04:01,000 Let's get into it. Energy Empire is powered by 77 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,440 Octopus Energy. Natasha Utilities have been 78 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,440 pitching demand response for 20 years. 79 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,520 Nobody signed up. Whose fault is that? 80 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,640 The industries. Those programs were designed for 81 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,440 utilities, not people. Confusing opt in's a bill 82 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,200 credit. You need a forensic accountant 83 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,400 to find no feedback ever. That's not a product, that's 84 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,160 homework. The utility answer is that 85 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,280 customers just don't care about the grid. 86 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,480 And they're right, and that's fine. 87 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,120 Nobody cares about the grid. People care about what they pay. 88 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,240 So stop asking them to care and build something that works on 89 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,480 its own. The car charges when Power's 90 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,560 cheapest thermostat precools before the evening peak. 91 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,800 The home battery cells back at the top and the savings show up 92 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,760 where you can actually see them. So the fix isn't another pilot 93 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,120 program. It's a product good enough that 94 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,560 nobody has to be convinced. Homework gets assigned, products 95 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,440 get chosen. Thanks Natasha Crow, vice 96 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,840 president of Marketing and Comms, North America, at Octopus 97 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:08,880 Energy. Link in the show notes Daniel 98 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,280 Deuce in the Flesh Jigger. It's great to see you. 99 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:14,920 Fantastic. Yeah, very good. 100 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,640 It's thawed up here in Vermont. So excited about that. 101 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,200 What do you guys get like 60 days of great weather a year? 102 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,000 Max Max. Oh no, probably less. 103 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,680 Not the best solar radiation, unfortunately. 104 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,400 But everyone loves to come up and stay with you, I'm sure 105 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,600 during the like leaf. Peeping season, yeah, we have 106 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,720 fall and we do have Smugglers Notch, so we've got some 107 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,040 treasures, but they're kind of few and far between sometimes. 108 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,480 You get icy skiing up at Killington. 109 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,240 Not this season. This season we got real powder. 110 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,280 But that was weird, to be clear. Yeah, that was very. 111 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,280 Great. You think it's bad skiing up 112 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:54,360 there, You should try hanging out with us in like Pennsylvania 113 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,120 or Virginia. It's a great way to break 114 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,240 something. Yeah, I've got a place up in 115 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,520 Deep Creek Lake and we have a ski resort called Wisp, which I 116 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,480 don't know that I can technically be called a ski 117 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,480 resort, but Daniel, we're going to jump right in because you 118 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,440 have an incredible story and I would like to get into it. 119 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:16,800 So like, just to start, you're the 4th generation of your 120 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,080 family to work in energy, right? Your great grandfather was a 121 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,440 coal mine engineer who became president of Michigan Tech 122 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,000 University. Your grandfather built power 123 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,880 Transformers at General Electric. 124 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,280 Like 3 generations of building the system and you're the one 125 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:36,640 that pivoted it into renewables, right? 126 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,640 It ended up the second person in the US to reach a GW of solar PP 127 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,560 as after me, obviously. And so like, what did watching 128 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,400 your family work the energy industry teach you that carried 129 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,600 you into Cir. Yes, yes. 130 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,880 You know, I usually don't tell all of my renewable energy 131 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,080 friends about my coal like family legacy, but thanks for 132 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:02,680 doing that trigger. I appreciate it. 133 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,320 You're like an energy neppo, baby Danielle is what? 134 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:11,720 You're telling us, evidently, I remember when my peers in middle 135 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,600 school were going to, as they should have baseball camp and 136 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,000 soccer camp. I went to Michigan Tech 137 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,240 mechanical engineering camp. So you can imagine that was a 138 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,880 fun party. But and then going into the 139 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,400 125,000 square foot library, which is named after my great 140 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,840 grandfather, and seeing it filled with energy knowledge, 141 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,040 right, Energy industry knowledge, it's definitely set 142 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,720 the stage. And seeing the transformer 143 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,120 building 2,000,000 square feet that my grandfather built power 144 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,600 Transformers in, it certainly gave me the feeling that humans 145 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,840 can do really big things right, and I just wanted to be part of 146 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,120 it. Well, you know I protested the 147 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,960 Michigan Tech coal lant so. Did you really? 148 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,200 Oh, yeah, I went to Illinois, right. 149 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,120 But all of us had a coal plant that like was joining the 150 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,240 university that then, you know, was like a Cogen facility, 151 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,480 right? So you would take the heat off 152 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,320 the coal plant and heat and cool all the buildings and. 153 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,840 Yeah, coal kept the lights on for a long time. 154 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,040 We no longer need it. If great grandpa was around 155 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,080 today, he would certainly be a solar engineer, I have no doubt 156 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,320 about that. I love that. 157 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,120 And so give me the origin story of Cir. right? 158 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,720 Because you used to run Adani's solar business in the US And 159 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,000 like, I mean, there's a little bit of an origin story between 160 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,360 the two, right? Yes, absolutely. 161 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,679 Working within Adani was pretty amazing. 162 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,480 This is an organization that signed the world's largest PPA 163 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,039 at the time of eight gigawatts, commissioned the world's largest 164 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:45,920 wind solar hybrid park of 1.6 gigawatts. 165 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,640 Earlier this week, they just announced they've commissioned 166 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,000 the largest battery outside of China, 3.4 GW hours. 167 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,960 So that's the scale of the projects and the complexity of 168 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,360 the projects that's happening there. 10X the United States and 169 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,240 that my team has worked on. And so we acquired Adani's U.S. 170 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,920 business, the intellectual property there and spun it out 171 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,200 into what is now Cir. So direct outcome from what I 172 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,960 had ranked before we left as the world's largest global solar 173 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,240 developer. So quite a spin out story. 174 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:17,680 And remind me what Cir. stands for? 175 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,040 Clean tech industry resources. The. 176 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,880 Most generic possible name because we don't care about our 177 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,680 brand, we care about serving the industry. 178 00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:30,320 So not super important that we have a memorable brand, I guess. 179 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,960 We're going to fix that. Yeah, I'm like we brands always 180 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,880 there, always, always available to you, Daniel. 181 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,480 OK, So you you describe Cir. as the world's only Amazon style 182 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,280 service store for complex energy professional services to include 183 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,920 site visits, diligence, energy modeling, permitting, grid 184 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,120 studies, merger and acquisition support, construction 185 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,960 management, etcetera, etcetera, all at fixed global pricing. 186 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,320 So for a listener who's never thought about energy project 187 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,800 development as a storefront, explain what you actually built. 188 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,040 Like what does a customer literally do when they show up? 189 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:13,760 My inability to answer that question in a simple clean way 190 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,200 is actually one of the cores to the value we've created because 191 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,800 it's really a choose your own adventure story, right? 192 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,800 We have clients that can come and purchase a single energy 193 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,880 generation model or they can retain us to deliver a GW scale 194 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,000 battery to NTP immediately, right? 195 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,480 With 0 lag, no bid time, etcetera, just straight into 196 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,600 execution. And so it varies by client and 197 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,440 their individual needs, their internal bandwidth, external 198 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,400 bandwidth, where their bottlenecks are in that moment, 199 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,000 we can apply bandwidth to support them and accelerate in 200 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,360 exactly that that location. In that way it's. 201 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,600 Almost like they're like separate modules and so you can 202 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,040 like go little or you can go big like depending on your needs. 203 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,880 Any system size? Yeah, any system size globally. 204 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:05,720 But let me get into my pet peeve because I I think your 205 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,360 storytelling is terrible, Daniel. 206 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,120 So like so like I'm reading story worthy right now. 207 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,720 Let me get right into this because like the thing that I 208 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:19,120 find fascinating about what you do, is it so #1 the reason you 209 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,480 have this business, as I can tell, is that Adani is basically 210 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,560 obsessed with doing everything in house. 211 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,280 So as a result, like you are not allowed to hire any external 212 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,520 consultants. And so you had to do everything 213 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,280 in house from geotechnical reports to, you know, 214 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,560 interconnection studies to all this other stuff. 215 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:41,640 And so as a result, you inherited a team of like 100 216 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,720 people in India who were experts in esoteric reports or whatever 217 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,440 for US projects, right? And so that's why you have all 218 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,360 of the people that you have, right, because they sort of were 219 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,440 forced to become experts in like each individual thing in the US, 220 00:11:58,440 --> 00:11:59,920 right? And that's really what you're 221 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,040 renting out. And then the next stage, as I 222 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,160 understand it was all these companies came through 223 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,960 powerhouse, right, and other like incubators and they all 224 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,760 basically created their own little app that like made 225 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,280 they're part of solar more efficient. 226 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:19,640 Nobody obviously wanted to have 74 apps, but you decided to 227 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,200 license all 74 apps, right? And like figure out how to 228 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,760 become an expert at all of them and like help people do things 229 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,320 more efficiently, right? Today you've realized that half 230 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,680 of them are garbage. And so like you only have like 231 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:34,080 37 apps, right? But you started with all of them 232 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,760 just to see whether you can figure it out, right? 233 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,120 And now you're sort of at a point where you can do 234 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,600 everything for everybody. But in some ways, when you say 235 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,640 that you can do everything for everybody, it's even more 236 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,840 confusing, right? Because in some ways you kind of 237 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:57,360 need to say we have the like deluxe car wash, the simple car 238 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,000 wash, the car wash with waxing, the car wash with like, you 239 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,960 know, the interior, like, you know, detailing, etcetera. 240 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,960 Like I feel like you need false packages even though you have 241 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,320 the ability to do all of it. Yeah. 242 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,200 And we do in our latest pricing calculators, we do have a fixed 243 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,000 price to NTP, any solar or battery project globally. 244 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,840 So that's literally full performance of the development 245 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,680 work. But we also do any slice of that 246 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:29,840 entire process for unique clients and we don't really care 247 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,320 which it is. Some clients we build 2 or $300 248 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,840 a month to. Some clients we build $150,000 a 249 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,760 month to task come in one side of the organization and work 250 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,240 product and execution happens. So our execution framework is 251 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,240 the same for all of those clients regardless of scale and 252 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,880 scope. But I agree, yeah, it's very, 253 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,480 very hard to tell that story. It's extremely hard. 254 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,160 Well, Jigger just told it for you so. 255 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,440 All you need to. Do Daniel is just take the 256 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,080 transcript from this conversation and turn that into 257 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,120 your like everyone loves an exciting origin story. 258 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,600 Like you can count on Jigger to be like this is like I get in 259 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,080 trouble with my husband for doing this. 260 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,720 He'll tell a story and I'll be like listening and I'll be like, 261 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,680 well, what really happened is and then I'll retell the story. 262 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,720 I have gotten scolded so much about that, but I try not to do 263 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,880 that now. But that's that's basically what 264 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,680 Jigger did. But I mean, you're a CEO, so 265 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,480 that's going to help you perceived less positively by my 266 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,600 husband, I think, but. Well, you know, like that's what 267 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,480 Jamie and I do. We jazz it up. 268 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,280 Yes, it's true, but that's what we're here for. 269 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,920 So now you've gone out in the world and you've have pitched 270 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,240 the top 100 solar developers, right? 271 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,480 And NTP for those folks who are following along is notice to 272 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,960 proceed. So that's all of the steps 273 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,400 required to start construction basically, right? 274 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,560 And, and you've gone to all of those people and you've captured 275 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,280 I think what 20 of the top 100 are now. 25% plus, yeah. 276 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,920 That's pretty amazing. And most of that, I think has 277 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,560 been accomplished in the last 12 months. 278 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,400 It is, yes. We now have over 250 clients, so 279 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,360 I'd say more than 50% of those in the last 12 months, they were 280 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,560 adding a new client every other day. 281 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,480 We have a single United States sales representative, 282 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,040 essentially. That's wild. 283 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,040 So yeah, yeah, we cannot on board folks any faster than we 284 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,240 are. Essentially we're we're being 285 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,200 governed by our bolting on bandwidth just to do more of 286 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,000 what we're already doing. But it's a strange time to be in 287 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,280 such a good place. But I guess we'll just knock on 288 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,240 wood and call it a day. So you've said that Cir. has 289 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,440 commoditized roughly 95% of the activities it takes to advance 290 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,160 an energy project. For someone in the industry 291 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,960 hearing that number for the first time, what is commoditized 292 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,400 actually mean in practice? Like what is the work now that 293 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,760 wasn't standardized before? Almost none of it, Jamie. 294 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,520 We are the only organization in the world we know of that can 295 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,360 give immediate pricing for every one of these unique activities. 296 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,720 So whether it's civil engineering, electrical 297 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,760 engineering, substation engineering, whether it's permit 298 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,080 applications, etcetera, we can fix those prices upfront for the 299 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,880 first time. And so 95% of these activities 300 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,080 to get projects to construction and finance readiness are 301 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,800 commoditized in our process. The 5% that are not there are 302 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,080 the boots on the site, portions of the site studies, the 303 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,600 majority of environmental assessments, wetland 304 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,320 delineations, these things are actually desktop and we've 305 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,840 commoditized all of those. But the site specific screening, 306 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:46,000 we will scope them, RFP them, we'll collect a dozen bids and 307 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,440 provide them at cost to our clients, but they're not yet 308 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,800 commoditized. You're taking all these things 309 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,520 that like someone else would have charged $100,000 for and 310 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,120 you're like, I just did the math. 311 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:02,000 It's like you're like Costco, you're like, that cost me $1943. 312 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,880 I don't think I'll just charge a 5% markup on there and just 313 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,880 charge people. I'm like, Daniel, you can charge 314 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,599 $20,000 for that. They're like, no, I think I'm 315 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:12,520 just going to take the cost to like mark it up 5%, like charge 316 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,560 my client that. You know me well, and you know 317 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,400 that if I could give our services away for free to 318 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,640 advance clean energy projects, I would. 319 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:20,680 Yes, you are. I love that. 320 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,640 I love that, Daniel, as someone who jigger, jigger who likes to 321 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,440 tell me that I'm too generous and I want to pay people too 322 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,840 much and I I can't help it. You can't turn it off. 323 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,480 It is the mission that often comes first. 324 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,840 So Daniel, can you give us a concrete example here of like a 325 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,760 price comparison of what a project may cost working through 326 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,200 Cir. versus like the standard process? 327 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:43,640 Sure. Of course. 328 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,960 I like to use the DOE has APV system cost analysis. 329 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,440 I think the last one was refreshed in 2024. 330 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:57,120 And if you look at that soft costs are about 17 to $0.19 per 331 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:04,080 Watt for 100 MW DC project. Our cost to NTP 100 MW DC 332 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:08,800 project is 1.52 cents. That includes full systems 333 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,720 engineering. Most folks can't even get just 334 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,000 the engineering done for that number. 335 00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,240 So that's the magnitude of the advantage. 336 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,320 All right. So we were talking about how you 337 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,440 were able to commoditize 95% of this process. 338 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,560 So what is it that's in the 5% that you cannot commoditize? 339 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,200 And what does that 5% that's remaining tell us about where 340 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,760 the industry still needs human judgment? 341 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:35,880 Yeah. What's interesting is we 342 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,520 actually have commoditized the human in the loop portion of all 343 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,440 of our work flows. So they're heavily software 344 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,720 dependent, but they also have subject matter experts in every 345 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,040 workflow controlling the quality and advancing those in real 346 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,280 time. So where we need the human in 347 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:58,040 the loop falls into a few categories. 1 is I would just 348 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,000 call it generally EQ or emotional quotient. 349 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,280 People convincing other people to do things right. 350 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,880 Bob the Fire Marshall is going to have personal opinions that 351 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,800 have nothing to do with the code every time. 352 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:17,880 And you have to be ready to either educate Bob or agree with 353 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,040 Bob and update and refresh your engineering, technical work, 354 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,360 procurement, etcetera, or come up with some type of a 355 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:27,200 settlement and negotiate with Bob for for a settled 356 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,680 negotiation. And by the way, Bob is not going 357 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,000 to answer his telephone. He's only going to respond if 358 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,760 you show up in person with a large box of Donuts. 359 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,440 And so that is. Extremely important Daniel fruit 360 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,240 basket. Much healthier. 361 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,400 Much healthier. So you're saying, you're saying 362 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,800 stakeholder engagement, community engagement, 363 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,360 essentially communications and marketing functions where you 364 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:51,720 have to actually build trust with people cannot be replaced 365 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,680 with replacement? And and also the other major 366 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,080 bucket is simply liability. We're in constant touch with 367 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,440 professional licensing boards and if you ask them licensed 368 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:07,320 civil, structural, electrical, financial advisory, legal bars, 369 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,160 etcetera, if you ask them if they are prepared to give any 370 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,200 AIA license, they will laugh at you, right? 371 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,720 And that is not about to change anytime soon. 372 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,080 These are human boards. So therefore you must have the 373 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,880 human in the loop to take full liability for any and all 374 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,760 decisions and actions, and we don't see that changing. 375 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,080 So that's where we spend a lot of our time and focus. 376 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,120 So the other thing I was thinking about is you started 377 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:36,560 off the company with like a license to all these different 378 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,160 apps from all these companies around the country who are 379 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,160 trying to, you know, like make each one of these component 380 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,240 parts more efficient. But now we have AI, right? 381 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,560 And so you publicly announced that you're going to try to have 382 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,680 1750 AI agents in place by the end of this year. 383 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,680 You have a Google AI lead that like you've been working with 384 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,760 for the past 2 1/2 years to guide you around what was 385 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,160 possible, right? So help us understand the apps 386 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,720 that you were using before and then the agents you're putting 387 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,320 in now, whether any of them interact with each other. 388 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:16,360 Are they replacing the apps? Do they do some other function 389 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:20,280 like like how does AI you know really help make this all 390 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:21,800 happen? Yeah, it's, it's a great 391 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,000 question. And we still have over 52 392 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,440 different enterprise level third party tools that are fantastic. 393 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,800 Of course we have PV case and PV roof and DNVGL solar compass, 394 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,840 Homer Grid, Zen D and on and on and on, right. 395 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,000 And then we have expert operators in each of those 396 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,640 tools. Where we have our AI agents 397 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,960 working is on the automation and acceleration and improvement of 398 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,280 of the human workflows that advance any one of these unique 399 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,400 disciplines. And so for example, the AI data 400 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,160 room diligence process that we acquired from Richard Matsui, we 401 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,040 now have over 25 different highly trained specialized AI 402 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,880 agents executing that process to identify risk in various data 403 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,640 rooms and compile key information and make it 404 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,680 actionable. And so, but you're certainly 405 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:15,920 right in that we've gone from sort of passive software tools 406 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,040 now to tools that can act on our behalves. 407 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,000 And so that's really where we're spending a ton of time, of 408 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,720 course. And for us, these work 409 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,240 everywhere from generating meeting minutes immediately 410 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,680 following a call to initial pricing and cost estimation for 411 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,760 projects, all of which go through a highly expert subject 412 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,640 matter, but reducing the time that it takes them to prepare 413 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,880 and assess and analyze these things. 414 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:44,840 There is not a single workflow in the organization that's not 415 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,000 touched by AI automation and Software Zero. 416 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,760 I saw Jamie just perk up there. Are you replacing her Fireflies 417 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:54,600 meeting notes? You know app here. 418 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,560 We also use fireflies. We like fireflies a lot. 419 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,480 I, I just got, I just got, I had AI did have a client refer me to 420 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,400 another tool yesterday. So we'll have to, I'll have to 421 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,280 try that out. Also love the shout out to 422 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,840 Richard Matsui, who I have to point out was our colleague at 423 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,800 the loan programs office. So hi, Rich, if you hear this. 424 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,040 OK, Daniel. So here's the question you owe 425 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,080 us an honor, an honest answer to you kind of already suggested as 426 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,720 such, but you've said that the commoditization of knowledge 427 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,200 work isn't a future threat. It's already happened. 428 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,200 And I think that you're kind of explaining that as you're 429 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,560 talking about the the structure of your company and how it 430 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,960 works. But for the energy engineers and 431 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,960 developers listening right now, what you've built is essentially 432 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,920 A eulogy for the way their jobs used to work, like how things 433 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,760 were done. So what is your honest case to 434 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,960 that workforce? What should they be doing with 435 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,720 the next 10 years of their careers? 436 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,400 It is the number one pushback that we get from teams that we 437 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,840 want to or are working with on occasion. 438 00:23:56,360 --> 00:24:00,960 They see our process, our process, our workflows and they 439 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,600 think they're just going to get fired tomorrow, right? 440 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,920 We had one engineer tell us some time back that he was not even 441 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:14,320 going to present our quote to his management because he said, 442 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,960 quote, I would look like an idiot for all the money I've 443 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,960 been spending on the scope for the rest of the portfolio. 444 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,800 And so of course, that's the wrong response. 445 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,280 And the right response is that this is absolutely a Jevons 446 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,400 paradox moment for renewable energy. 447 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,880 If you can reduce as we can the cost of delivered assets by 20 448 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:41,160 to 30%, then we only increase the demand for solar across 449 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,040 homes, businesses and at utilities. 450 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,160 And so there is no shortage of work to be done and employment 451 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,480 to be had in that dramatic growth scenario. 452 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,960 If we all tighten the belt, get more efficient faster and we 453 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,240 continue to widen the gap of what the cost and price of our 454 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,680 energy in the market versus alternatives, right. 455 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,520 So that is our entire thinking. And by the way, if anyone would 456 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,840 like to talk about working for us, please call me. 457 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,880 Well, and that's what I keep telling people too, who asked me 458 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,440 this is I'm just like, you know, these are all of the tasks that 459 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,400 nobody wanted to do. Like it was painstaking work. 460 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,120 You had to figure out where the mistake was. 461 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:23,240 It was like a where's Waldo you know, effort because you had 462 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,000 this like complicated drawing. You're like, are we sure that 463 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,320 it's correct? And what part is not correct or 464 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,440 whatever? Now you have an AI agent that 465 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,120 can tell you exactly whether it's correct or not and like, 466 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,640 and then highlight the parts that you should just look at 467 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,920 more carefully. I totally agree with you. 468 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,120 I feel like this is going to allow us to 10X the amount of 469 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,200 solar that we deploy, which is what we need to do in this 470 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,880 moment. The one question I had though on 471 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:52,800 this is really just how do we restate what I just said to 472 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,400 humans, right? Like what part of their job as 473 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,760 AI and what part of their job is them and how do they feel like 474 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,160 that part of what they have to do continues to be important. 475 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,840 Their judgment continues to be important, right? 476 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,960 That like the AI is there to assist them, right? 477 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,640 I mean, because you know, Jensen Huang talks about this all the 478 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,200 time, right? That like that when Microsoft 479 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,120 Excel came out, it wasn't like everybody who did spreadsheets 480 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,360 manually, like lost their job. Like in fact, 10s of thousands 481 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,760 of additional people got hired to do more spreadsheets, right? 482 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,920 And so like, so I feel like everyone thinks that AI is 483 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,400 coming for their job instead of thinking that AI is going to be 484 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,600 a tool that helps them do their job more effectively. 485 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,680 What I think is important for us all to remember is that we have 486 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:46,080 all been subject to way too much data and plenty of great advice 487 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,840 for a really long time. It was all just one Google 488 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,600 search away. Subject matter experts have been 489 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,680 dumping it online for years and years. 490 00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:59,200 So yes, AI now gives us a million times more data and 491 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,600 analysis and great advice. It still has to be actuated in 492 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,960 the physical world. It still has to be turned into 493 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,640 action. And so that's where we lack the, 494 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,360 I think fear that exists often in the market. 495 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:18,880 What our AI advisors point out to us is that AI is going to and 496 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,880 and has already started inventing amazing new medical 497 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,120 devices, technologies, etcetera. Those require factories to be 498 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:30,160 built, they require sales teams to be sold, they require human 499 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,920 relationships to be deployed. They require electricians in the 500 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,000 field, right. And so the number of new 501 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,160 technologies and advancements that we're looking at, including 502 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,800 in our field is going to be substantial and require humans 503 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,600 to execute bottom line. Daniel, you're one of the six 504 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,120 founders of the Solar Fight Club, which has grown Solar 505 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,280 Fight Night into one of the largest renewable energy 506 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,480 fundraisers in the world. 22 events, more than 14,000 507 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,920 attendees, over 1.8 million raised to date for clean energy 508 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,680 nonprofits. I know it's the party of the 509 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,040 year for the renewable energy industry every year at RA Plus. 510 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,040 I never miss it. Jigger and I have gone been 511 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,920 going together for years now. For listeners who have never 512 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,960 been to one, what actually happens at a solar Fight Night 513 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,160 and why does this scene exist in clean tech? 514 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,800 Well, what actually happens at Fight Night, I guess. 515 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,560 In Vegas last year I had a sway pool performer representing 516 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,640 wind. I had synchronized swimmers 517 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,760 representing hydrogen. I had a guy running around in a 518 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,440 tinfoil hat with a Pinocchio nose talking about how windmills 519 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,720 kill whales. And I had a Joker running around 520 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,280 giving people tariffs for absolutely no reason. 521 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,520 Like your shirts too red. I didn't that's. 522 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,760 Hilarious. Though, Yeah, so we have fun 523 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,040 with what's happening in the moment because sometimes if you 524 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,440 don't laugh, you cry. But at its core, Fight Night has 525 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,360 the exact same mission it's always had, which is to 526 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,880 celebrate the industry and the people that are making this 527 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,080 transition happen, that are fighting for a cleaner future 528 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,600 and to make the human connections that get projects 529 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,800 done right. That mission remains to this 530 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,120 day. It's the best networking event 531 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,760 in the industry, in my opinion. And that is Fight Night in a 532 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,560 nutshell. All right, take me to the bar. 533 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,760 How did the six of you get together and what was it like 534 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,440 when you came up with the idea? So the original idea was from 535 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:37,800 Todd Friedman, now development at Altis, and it was about 536 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:45,400 survival back then, right in 2008, it was about how to not go 537 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,720 bankrupt or leave the industry. My first two years in solar, I 538 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,560 made exactly $0.00. And so that's what we were 539 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,640 talking about. How are we going to get the 540 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,240 first projects that we were getting signed? 541 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,720 How are we going to get them done? 542 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,960 I'll never forget I showed up and I was talking about how I'd 543 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,640 signed 100 kilowatt PPA with the city of Santa Monica and 544 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,680 everyone was like 100 kilowatts. Like, how are you ever going to 545 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:08,920 do that, right? It's massive. 546 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,360 And so that that's, that was really the genesis. 547 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,680 And of course, we all know that we have more passion in this 548 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,880 industry than others. I think Jamie, you were alluding 549 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,320 to why is such an event exist in the clean tech space versus 550 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,200 maybe some others. So for fun, if you Google 551 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,800 nonprofit fundraising event for oil and gas nonprofits, you will 552 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,000 come up with exactly 0. And so it's, it's not as if 553 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,200 there is much competition. And I think it really comes down 554 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,200 to the core heart and soul of our industry being more than 555 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,120 just an economic initiative, but a moral and imperative as well. 556 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,560 So I think that's why, Solar Fight Night insists. 557 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,920 Can you give a quick shout out to 1 of what group you've? 558 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,680 I know every year you support a different nonprofit 559 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,480 organization, but either the group you're supporting this 560 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,240 year or one that stands out to you from the last few years. 561 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,560 This year we are promoting our leading industry advocates 562 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,280 because as Jigger likes to point out, political power is our 563 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:14,960 first, second and third priority. 564 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,480 And so we are supporting solar Energy Industries Association, 565 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,480 SIA. We're supporting both solar 566 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,360 who's the leader at the state level. 567 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,800 Of course, SIA is the leader at the national level and we're 568 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,200 supporting run on Climate, which is a leader at getting mayoral 569 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,040 and county government candidates elected who are pro climate. 570 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,440 And that's where we see a lot of projects dying these days, 571 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,080 locally, hyper locally. So huge fan of their work 572 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,840 especially. So now let's turn this back to 573 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,840 capitalism. And so so Cir. actually gets a 574 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,680 lot out of solar Fight Night. So like I'm not suggesting you 575 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,480 started it for this purpose, but now that you have like a party 576 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,360 that everybody wants to get into that gets sold out, you have 577 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:02,440 AVIP line and also stuff like how do you guys use this 578 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:07,520 strategically to get more customers to notice Cir. and in 579 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,560 the door and all that stuff? It's a great question. 580 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,600 Actually. No one has ever asked me this 581 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,800 question before so, but people have asked me why do you have 582 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,720 you spent 1000 hours arranging or and coordinating and 583 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,960 executing solar Fight Night over the years for $0.00, right? 584 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,000 That's a that's a perfectly reasonable question and there's 585 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,160 certainly an element of it just gives me hope in humanity. 586 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,920 Again, we go through the year, we read all these terrible 587 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,000 headlines about all these stupid things we're doing as a species. 588 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,400 But you go to Fight Night and you remember that there are so 589 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,960 many good people doing such good work and that is more valuable 590 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,520 than the almighty dollar sometimes. 591 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:53,320 Now going back to Capitalism Jigger, it is a secret sauce 592 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,040 item for Cir. Although I've never taken the 593 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,640 mic and spoken about Cir. who runs and manages and execute the 594 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,400 the event or myself. For one concrete example of the 595 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,640 outcomes here, we have everyone's contact information. 596 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,960 We have 63,000 contacts for every vendor on planet Earth, 597 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,480 globally. And so when we support our 598 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,320 clients in executing procurement activities, on average our 599 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,480 clients internal teams might go to three to five bidders. 600 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,480 On average, we go to 150 bidder organizations and we have 601 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,720 everyone's personal Gmail addresses because of Fight 602 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:30,400 Night. Thank you. 603 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,960 And so we're able to get to them and make sure that they're 604 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,920 responding to opportunities that fits with their scope. 605 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,920 So on average, we're able to drive procurement cost down by 3 606 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,920 to 5% even at the 100 or MW or GW scale project. 607 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,720 That's a lot of cash and value to our clients, and probably a 608 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,320 full third of our clients have come from being in touch with 609 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,640 folks just outside of the commercial relationship focus, 610 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,200 right? It just gives us something to 611 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,400 connect with. There are too few opportunities 612 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,840 for us to connect as humans these days outside of a 613 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,200 commercial environment, right? Everything is an ad and Solar 614 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:06,720 Fight Night is the opposite of that. 615 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,239 I invite every one of our competitors into to the event to 616 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,800 celebrate the industry because it's about all of us. 617 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:14,520 Awesome. I love that so much. 618 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:18,080 So you've also launched Cleantech Fact Check through 619 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,880 Solar Fight Night, which is a platform built specifically to 620 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,120 push back on misinformation and clean energy. 621 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,360 You've said critical decisions in this industry are getting 622 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,639 made on incomplete or misleading information, which I think we 623 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,040 can all agree with. So what's the piece of 624 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,480 misinformation that Cleantech Fact Check is built to take down 625 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,120 right now? And who's the audience that 626 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,159 you're trying to reach with that beyond just our colleagues in 627 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:41,639 the industry? Yeah. 628 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,679 Well, first of all, I'm trying to stop calling it 629 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:46,920 misinformation and just call it lies. 630 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,880 They're lies. This is really the truth of the 631 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,440 matter. And it's it's ironically one of 632 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,080 the great disadvantages of our industry is that our executive 633 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,360 teams are moral and would never lie. 634 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,240 I do not know a single renewable energy industry executive who 635 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,320 would get on and lie, for example, like the coal lobby 636 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,720 saying that pollution is good for us, for example. 637 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,920 Now we've database dozens and dozens of these lies and then 638 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,560 prepared well researched scientific responses as well as 639 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,840 comedic responses if that's what you want to respond with. 640 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:26,200 We've also databased all the industry videos of every farmer 641 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,600 whose farm the industry saved, every homeowner who's put panels 642 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,280 on their roof and wants to brag about their $0.00 energy bill so 643 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,760 that folks can access those videos and respond wherever they 644 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,080 are. We've databased where those 645 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,800 folks are and those stories come from. 646 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,800 So there's a repository of of responses to the lies and 647 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,960 misinformation in real time. So because it can take a long 648 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,600 time to research and respond and reply. 649 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,320 So instead you can go to cleantechfactcheck.org, 650 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,960 immediately search, find the lie, cut and paste response of 651 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,600 your choosing because we just have to be in the mix on the 652 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,360 discussion. That's an awesome resource that 653 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,240 I have. I am embarrassed to admit that I 654 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,640 didn't know that it existed, but I'm gonna go check it out right 655 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,200 after this. Brand new, brand new. 656 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,400 We launched two or three weeks ago, so. 657 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:14,680 Oh, awesome. Great. 658 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,000 All right. We'll definitely have to put 659 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,840 that in the show notes as well as a link to where folks can go 660 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,560 to potentially become a customer of Cir. 661 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,520 Because I mean, I think if they, if you listen to this episode, 662 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,040 if you're in the market for any of these services, the value 663 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,240 prop here is just completely undeniable. 664 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,760 Last question on my side, Ari Plus got pushed out to November 665 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:42,120 this year in Vegas. I think it's the same week as 666 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,880 the F1 race. So that's going to be crazy. 667 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,800 And so like, where is solar Fight Night? 668 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,480 Is the F1 race also in Vegas? It is, and it's that Thursday of 669 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,560 that week, and so I'm out on Wednesday this year. 670 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,040 We better all go make our hotel reservations now. 671 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,480 Yeah, exactly. Immediately I, I did notice that 672 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,400 our suite booking was 50% more when we booked it last month. 673 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,320 And I thought it was just for the conference, but that makes 674 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,600 much more sense. I think the F1 set probably has 675 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,760 a little more cash to spend on on fancy hotel rooms that our 676 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,360 renewable energy industry friends do. 677 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,360 We are at the same venue, Soup Nightclub, IU Day Club. 678 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,160 I want to say it's a 3500 plus person venue, really nice, 679 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,360 super, super high tech and we're going to have a lot of fun. 680 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,600 And hopefully I'm going to knock on wood after the recording 681 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,240 here. Hopefully we'll be celebrating 682 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,120 the midterms, right? That's what that's what we hope. 683 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,960 High energy. We definitely want a lot of 684 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,800 clean energy champions to win their seat in midterms. 685 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,080 Has to happen. Well, we can't wait to see you 686 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,920 at Solar Fight Night, Daniel. We'll be there. 687 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,600 Yes, we're doing one at ACP 2-3 a year now. 688 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,480 Amazing. Well, thanks for coming on, 689 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,400 Daniel, and thanks for all the great work you've done for years 690 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,680 for our industry. It really is important. 691 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,520 And just a reminder, double your prices. 692 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,720 He does this to me too. It's just paradox, Jigger 693 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:16,280 Javid's paradox, right? Our, our conversion rate from a 694 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,480 cold call to a client is 60 plus percent for a reason, right? 695 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,640 So there's a there's some upside in being aggressive on our 696 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,480 pricing structures. I love it. 697 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,160 Thanks Daniel. Thanks. 698 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,680 Energy Empire is supported by S2G Investments. 699 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,400 If you haven't checked out their podcast, I highly recommend it. 700 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,520 They have a great recent episode on the long term effects of the 701 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,200 Iran war and the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. 702 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,000 In the episode, Sanjeev Krishna and Franco Sullivan and Bala 703 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,440 Nagarajan make a compelling case that this disruption could be 704 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,200 the most powerful accelerant for renewable energy in a 705 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,240 generation. And in future episodes, they'll 706 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,040 be exploring how those forces are reshaping our food systems 707 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,560 and ocean intelligence. Sound interesting? 708 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,080 Go find the S2G podcast and start with the global energy. 709 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:20,800 Order has changed Now what? Well, that was fun. 710 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,240 Yes, So great to talk to Daniel. He's really inspiring. 711 00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:27,400 He's one of those people who is absolutely driving change in our 712 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,160 sector with an incredible company that is driving on the 713 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,760 cost of power and just making our, you know, these, these 714 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,120 services and this generation so much more scalable in a really 715 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,000 powerful way. So I can't wait to see what they 716 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,280 do next. But it is kind of hilarious that 717 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,560 he is not at all a self promoter. 718 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,960 He's not. I mean, it was funny to me when 719 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,760 you were kind of like, I'm going to retell that story for you. 720 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,760 I mean, I really hope that he takes that to heart because he 721 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,360 should toot his own horn a little bit and it doesn't come 722 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,440 naturally to some people. But then in other places, I 723 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,440 thought he was really eloquent, like he had a really great 724 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,280 response on like some of the workforce issues related to AI 725 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,160 adoption in the sector. And he really understands like 726 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,720 the human element of the work and how important the trust 727 00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:17,880 building is. And just there's so much heart 728 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,400 in what he's doing, like with Solar Fight Night and all of his 729 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,840 nonprofit work. So it was great to get to know 730 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,240 him a little bit more. Oh, he clearly cares. 731 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:26,560 I mean, that's when he lights up. 732 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,360 Is he really cares when he's talking about others? 733 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,360 And he clearly like clams up when he wants, when I'd like ask 734 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,800 him to talk about himself. I'm like, no, I want you to talk 735 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,080 more about yourself. Yep, Yep. 736 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,800 He's obviously, like so many of us in the sector, really cares 737 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,880 about climate, is like here to to just do well by doing good. 738 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,480 Well, and I'm super excited to see how the tools that he's put 739 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,960 together really can reduce the cost of the soft costs on solar. 740 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,360 I mean, I was shocked by his numbers where he was like, it's 741 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:02,160 like 17 and $0.19 per Watt on the cost of installing a solar 742 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,760 project. All those soft costs and he's 743 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,080 reducing them down to, I think he said, 1.52 cents. 744 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:12,280 Yeah, wild. Like significantly greater cross 745 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,080 cost reductions than I anticipated he would be able to 746 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,920 tangibly demonstrate. I don't see any reason why 747 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,080 anyone who wasn't in the market for any of those services 748 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,040 wouldn't be reaching out to Cir. after listening to this episode. 749 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,960 Like the value is just absolutely undeniable. 750 00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,840 Well, we're going to put a link, I'm sure in the show notes and 751 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,280 folks should click on it and make sure that they start saving 752 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,600 money. I mean, it's important. 753 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:39,800 Totally. And then also for my other comms 754 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,760 and marketing folks that I know you're listening to this 755 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,440 podcasts, definitely also go check out Cleantech Fact Check, 756 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,040 which is the new website that Daniel mentioned just launched a 757 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,160 few weeks ago. I am going to go check it out 758 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,800 and post on LinkedIn about it. Can't wait. 759 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,920 Well, and as you know, Next up, the Ass Jigger segment that is 760 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,800 sponsored by our friends at Octopus Energy. 761 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,840 I can't wait. I'm really excited. 762 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,680 Welcome to Ask Jigger, our weekly segment where Jigger 763 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,400 answers your questions about energy or anything else you're 764 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,800 wondering about. Huge thanks to our sponsor 765 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,480 Octopus Energy for making the segment possible. 766 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,960 Before we get into this week's questions, a bit of news. 767 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,440 We have a brand new merch shop, very excited about it. 768 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,440 Right now it's Energy Empire merch, but we have plans to add 769 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,200 more general energy merch, so definitely send us your ideas 770 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,880 for what you want to say. And to celebrate, anyone who 771 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,280 sends in a question that Jigger answers on the show gets an 772 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,680 Energy Empire hat. So send them in. 773 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,160 All right, let's get to it, Jigger. 774 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,560 Our first question comes from Darren Lehman. 775 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,520 And Darren says Jigger. I've spent a lot of time on 776 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,680 residential roofs, installing solar panels and all the 777 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,640 electrical work that makes the system run. 778 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,400 So here's what I can't figure out. 779 00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:58,920 Data centers keep citing these massive new power needs. 780 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,720 So why is an on site solar and battery storage a routine part 781 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:05,360 of their plans? I get that rooftop and ground 782 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,600 mount solar plus batteries won't cover all of their load, but it 783 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,560 boggles my mind that the cheapest new generation we have 784 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,800 isn't standard in the build out. Why not? 785 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:20,080 It is such a good point, but basically it is the battery that 786 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,120 matters, not the solar, right? And So what happens when a data 787 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,640 center comes to town is that they use up a lot of the excess 788 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,560 capacity that's left in the grid. 789 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,640 And so if you can put everybody on that circuit on batteries and 790 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,360 that when there is like a grid crisis or some sort of 791 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,760 emergency, you actually take those loads and have them run 792 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,880 off the battery, that frees up capacity for the data center. 793 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,600 And what a lot of the experts are saying is that if you give 794 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,040 local residents free stuff, meaning a battery and then maybe 795 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,520 a solar system to refuel the battery, then they suddenly love 796 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,480 the data center. And it's less than .1% of the 797 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,480 cost of a new data center to provide all of those batteries 798 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,760 to those residential customers. And so I totally agree with you 799 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,880 that residential solar and battery storage should be part 800 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,800 of the solution. One other fun fact, we have 801 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,040 about 6,000,000 residential solar systems in the United 802 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,400 States. That represents maybe 10%, a 803 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,280 little less of all of the single family residential systems 804 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:34,120 houses in the country. I think Australia is over 40%, 805 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,680 maybe 50% of their rooftops with solar on it. 806 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,760 So if we just matched Australia, we would free up so much 807 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,080 capacity that we could say yes to all of the data centers and 808 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,240 reduce everybody's bills by 10%. Well, those are some big 809 00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:51,880 numbers. I mean, I think we understand 810 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,760 what the solution is, but why are the hyperscalers not hip to 811 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,600 this? Like why aren't they doing it? 812 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,440 Because the people who understand the grid are not the 813 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,080 people who are trying to move fast and break things. 814 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,600 And so, like, part of this is actually forcing the people who 815 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,840 move fast and break things to understand that their way isn't 816 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,880 working right. I mean, like 70% of all the data 817 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,400 centers that were supposed to be online this year are delayed. 818 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:17,880 They're not even under construction yet. 819 00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:21,240 And so their way is not going fast. 820 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:24,120 They have to move a little more slowly to go fast later. 821 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,360 And a lot of the energy experts who work for the hyperscalers 822 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,240 know what the right answer is. But people aren't listening to 823 00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,320 them. So keep beating up the 824 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:33,720 hyperscalers. They'll do the right thing 825 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:37,440 eventually. All right, I'll take our next 826 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,240 question comes from David Savage. 827 00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:41,840 And David, says Jigger. I'm a staffer at a Public 828 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,360 Utilities Commission. I'm so happy you're here, David, 829 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,000 Thank you for listening to the podcast. 830 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,120 You've talked a lot about the need for commissions to be more 831 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,200 proactive. And I wonder where you think the 832 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,520 balance lies between a Commission taking action on its 833 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,080 own versus needing to be empowered to act by the state 834 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,160 legislature. It's a great question and one 835 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:02,760 that we struggle with all the time. 836 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,080 You know, I think that commissions do, I think have the 837 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,520 right to say and to nudge utilities in the right direction 838 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,200 and say, hey, it'd be good to get more out of the grid. 839 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,840 We've already paid for using grid enhancing technologies and 840 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,040 virtual power plants. But for a lot of utility 841 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,160 commissions, they view themselves as traditional 842 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,600 bodies, right? And so the utility goes forward 843 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,760 and says here's our integrated resource plan or here's our rate 844 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,320 recovery request. And folks have to go through and 845 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,320 say here's what's prudent, here's what's not prudent. 846 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,760 They're not really supposed to tell utility companies how to 847 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,560 operate their grid. So they want air cover from the 848 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:45,720 state legislators to say, hey, you have to achieved this higher 849 00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,320 grade utilization which is what passed in Virginia. 850 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,920 There's other states that are looking to do the same thing to 851 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,320 give their commissions air cover. 852 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,560 But I would suggest if you look at what Dan Scripps has done in 853 00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:01,120 Michigan, he's absolutely said to consumers and DTE, hey, I am 854 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,120 not looking at any more of your rate requests unless you pair it 855 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,120 with whether this particular project could have been done 856 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,720 cheaper with a virtual power plant or grid enhancing 857 00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:14,200 technologies. And so I do think that kind of 858 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,280 boldness is something commissions have the legal right 859 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,400 to do. But totally agree with you that 860 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,240 most commissioners don't feel like they have the air cover 861 00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:26,880 from their governors or their state legislators to be that 862 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,920 bold. So what's the solution? 863 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,640 Well, some of the folks have been bold, right? 864 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,160 The Minnesota Commission, the Michigan Commission, but others 865 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,720 have been bold, like, you know, our friend Marissa over in 866 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:41,400 Connecticut, and she lost her job over being bold, right? 867 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,680 Then the governor didn't have her back, right? 868 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,320 And so you see a variety of different approaches. 869 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,320 But part of the reason why we're trying to get bills passed 870 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,960 across the country to explicitly require higher grid utilization 871 00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:57,840 is to give people air cover, right? 872 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,240 And to send a signal directly from the state legislators to 873 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,600 the utilities saying we're watching you, you need to do 874 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,440 things that are in the best interest of ratepayers, not just 875 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,280 the data centers and shareholders, which is what 876 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,000 everybody's accusing them of. Absolutely. 877 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,800 And I'd actually add that if you're interested in this topic, 878 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,160 you should check out the work being done by the utilized 879 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,280 coalition as well as deploy action. 880 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,640 Those are both groups that are working at the state level to 881 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,000 try and get more legislation passed and potentially put 882 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,840 together some model legislation around grid utilization. 883 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,040 So thanks for the question. That was a really good one. 884 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,080 OK, Our next question comes from Steven Scarpula and Steven says 885 00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,000 Jigger. I'm a finance professional and 886 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,040 listening to the show has me seriously considering a career 887 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,480 change to help move the energy transition forward. 2 questions. 888 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,560 What's your advice for someone making that jump from finance? 889 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,640 And are there specific people in the industry I should be 890 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,280 reaching out to? Well, it's a great question and 891 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,080 one that, you know, I don't know that I know which place you 892 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,200 should jump into from finance, but finance is a great place to 893 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,400 jump from. But there's a lot of, you know, 894 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,280 important roles in our industry. I mean, the beauty and you know, 895 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,440 Jamie, you know this better than I do, The value of marketing and 896 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,400 comms is super important. The value of construction 897 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,680 management is super important. There's a lot of folks that are 898 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,080 figuring out how to use next generation AI tools to reduce 899 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,920 the cost of building new, you know, plants. 900 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,480 There are folks who become experts in working with 901 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,920 regulators, who are working with state legislators and 902 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,320 policymakers to be able to, you know, educate them on finance 903 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:39,240 related issues and how money views certainty or uncertainty 904 00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:42,200 or some of those other things. And so I think that no matter 905 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,240 what you want to do, there's room for you in the industry. 906 00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:47,080 It's so diverse. Absolutely. 907 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,520 And I would add there are, there are lots of finance jobs in this 908 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,480 industry as well. I mean, I'm sitting here today 909 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,800 at the offices of Galvanized Climate Solutions. 910 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,960 They're, you know, working in the space Jiggers former firm 911 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,160 Generate Capital. I mean, there are a lot of 912 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,600 similar types of groups that work at the intersection of 913 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,760 clean energy and finance. So it can be done. 914 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,360 Definitely take the leap and you won't regret it. 915 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,800 It's very, very rewarding, gratifying work. 916 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,440 OK, our last question comes from Arjun Mehta. 917 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,400 And he says, Jigger, you spend all day telling the rest of us 918 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,760 to electrify everything. So I have to ask, what's 919 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,360 actually in your house? Uh oh. 920 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,320 He wants you set up solar on the roof, heat pump. 921 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:28,680 What do you got? What are you working with? 922 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,880 So I've got 2 houses, one in Bethesda, MD and then we have a 923 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,240 vacation place up in Deep Creek Lake, MD. 924 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:41,640 The one in Bethesda has a lot of tree cover on the roof and so 925 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,960 I've had it fully mapped and found the like little slivers of 926 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,960 places where the sun consistently shines. 927 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,280 And I put 2 kilowatts of solar there. 928 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,640 So I've done that right. My house had I ripped out the 929 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:58,320 natural gas heating and cooling systems to put in heat pumps. 930 00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,080 And so we're all heat pumps. I've got a natural gas water 931 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,960 heater and so I'm waiting for that to kick it before I replace 932 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,760 it. And I'm natural gas stove which 933 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,760 will never die. I'm sure the stove will last for 934 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,120 years. And so we'll see when we can 935 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,440 actually shut off that at the vacation house though, we 936 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,560 actually built that from scratch. 937 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:19,840 And so that's an all electric house. 938 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,920 There is no natural gas service at that house. 939 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,000 It is super energy efficient, one of the most energy efficient 940 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,240 homes in Garrett County and in Maryland. 941 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:33,120 And so we actually need to bring in fresh air so that, you know, 942 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,440 the air is rotating. It's got induction stove, it's 943 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,600 got a heat pump. It's got, I think almost 16 944 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,920 kilowatts of solar on the roof. And so if the end of days comes, 945 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,000 I'm going to be able to be a prepper in that house along with 946 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,640 my two EV chargers that I've had installed there. 947 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,600 And so all my neighbors know that if something bad happens, 948 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,600 they can hang out of my house. Rad, I want to know more about 949 00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:00,040 this setup in Deep Creek Lake. I am looking forward to visiting 950 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,200 your home there this summer when I also will just coincidentally 951 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,800 be in Deep Creek Lake to see your setup because that sounds 952 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,680 so cool. All right, so that's all for Ask 953 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,760 Jigger this week. Remember, you can send in your 954 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,800 own questions and like I said, if yours gets picked, we'll send 955 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,720 you an energy empire hat, the links in the show notes. 956 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,640 Thanks for listening. As always. 957 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,160 You can find us at energy empire dot FM and wherever you get your 958 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,520 podcasts. If you've got a second, please 959 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:30,000 leave us a review on Spotify, Apple podcast and also subscribe 960 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,600 on YouTube because that helps new listeners discover the show. 961 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:34,640 Thank you.