I just a couple minutes, it's gonna be a little bit different
tonight. Obviously, we're talking about
the Neo Independent Baptist Movement.
We spent a lot of time talking about what we what it means to
be a Baptist. Then we moved into specifically
what it means to be an independent Baptist.
And now last week we kind of started into this this idea of
the Neo Independent Baptist movement and really just a lot
of a lot of churches, if you will.
But even even people pastors Those who want to change the
Independent Baptist movement from the inside we and looking
at what, it means to be an independent Baptist really
looked at at what it is from. Somebody outside looking in.
And what we're doing here is really taking a very hard
introspective look and there's a lot within the Independent
Baptist movement that want to change it into something that it
was never meant to be. And something that's very
dangerous thing. So I'm going to do a lot of
reading tonight and that's why I say it's A little bit different
mostly because I want to use the exact words of those who are
leading this Neo, Independent Baptist movement.
I'm going to give you what they Define as this new movement.
And that's what they're trying to do is start a new movement
and and how they Define it. And then next week, we're going
to look at an answer to each one of these points.
Its kind of I'm going off of one article in particular that was
written by Josh Tice. I mentioned his name last week
he is one. That is really He's not the only
one by any stretch but he's one, that's kind of headed up this
idea of the Neo Independent Baptist movement and he wrote an
article that listed out all the things that define the Neo
Independent Baptist movement. So I'm gonna I'm gonna base it
off of that article and give you a lot of what he said in that
article tonight. But then the next week, we're
going to look at each one of those individual points and talk
about talk about it from, from our perspective.
And from a perspective of there is no need to change.
Other than maybe some some different philosophy type things
or you know, practical type things maybe.
But as we get into this I think it's important for us to
understand a couple things in any serious theological
disagreement and make no mistake that.
That's exactly what this is. It's a theological disagreement.
We have to keep several things in mind.
The first one and the most important one is that we always
have to make the scripture the basis for anything that we Say,
or do or stand on, or anything else?
It's also helpful. I think to make sure that we
keep our emotions in check and to think an argue from an
intellectual standpoint rather than from the intellect to the
emotions to the will and it has to be in that order and
hopefully you'll understand that as we go through it.
But I think in addition to those two, I would also add that it's
necessary to make sure we can tell the difference between
friend and foe. For treating a man or a group as
the enemy. When in fact, they're not, and
vice versa has done a lot of harm to the cause of Christ over
the years. And I don't want to make that
mistake as we go through here, but Jude tells us to earnestly
contend for the faith, right? And that's something that we
stand on a lot earnestly contend for the faith and I think that's
absolutely, it's very, very important that we do that.
But as I understand the last two words of that phrase, the faith,
it implies. All the doctrines.
That are taught in the word of God that we're supposed to
believe. Now primarily, if you were to
kind of list some of those things out, well let me ask you
this. Let's let's have a little bit of
interaction tonight. What do you think some of the
primary doctrines of the faith would be?
Maybe you could call them fundamentals of the faith.
And again, there's those last two words, the faith.
What do you think? They would be give me a couple
ideas of some things that you think would be the fundamentals
of the faith? Death, burial and resurrection
of Jesus Christ, fundamental of the faith.
What else? The Virgin?
Birth of Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ was not born of
a virgin, then we have we don't have a savior, he was not
perfect. If he was not born of a virgin
because that means he came through the, the Earthly line of
Adam and wherefore. As by one man sin entered into
the world and death by sin and so death passed upon all men for
that. All have sinned.
Jesus Christ could not have borne of been born of anything
other than a virgin and still be sinless.
That's another One, what else? Second coming of Jesus Christ.
Yep. What's another one?
Jackson Let the deity of Christ. Yeah.
What's another one? Yeah.
Death burial and Resurrection. Yep, very good.
Anything else? I already mentioned one of them
just a little bit ago. Jackson.
The inerrancy of the Bible, right?
So a lot of those you're hitting on a lot of different things.
The, the literal, Resurrection, the atoning death, the Virgin
birth, you know, the second coming salvation by grace,
through faith. Those are the doctrines that are
critically important to Eternity and between all of us, we hit
all of them. All right?
Tom Brennan, wrote a book. I think I mentioned it.
It's called schizophrenic and I think it's an excellent.
Excellent book. He's, he's an independent
Baptist and has been since since he was born essentially because
Dad was an independent Baptist, pastor, obviously, he came to
the conclusion. A lot of these conclusions on
his own and God called him into the ministry and he's been a
pastor for quite some time himself.
But he wrote a book called schizophrenic.
That basically says, this is everything that's right, with
the Independent Baptist movement.
This is everything that's wrong. We don't need to throw the baby
out with the bathwater. We need to change the things
that are wrong and Shore up the things that are right and
there's a whole lot more things that are right then that are
wrong but in that book schizophrenic he kind of
mentioned some of these Fundamental doctrines.
And then he said this beyond that, as an independent Baptist,
I hold the other doctrines that I think the Bible clearly
teaches and that are also important.
But at the bare minimum, the man who holds these doctrines is my
brother in Christ. We share.
We shall share Heaven someday. He is not my enemy, though.
I may differ with him on a veritable plethora of other
things is an Orthodox, Christian not in a denominational sense,
but in a doctrinal sense. So to put it plainly, Josh
Tyson, In these other guys and and really I'm not I'm not
really using any other names. He's the main one that is
leading this independent Baptists Neo Independent Baptist
movement so he's the de facto head if you will but Josh Titus
and the movement that he represents are not the enemy and
I want to make sure that that's clear.
If Jesus tarries his coming, we're both going to die someday.
And we're both going to stand before Christ and we're both
looking for to hear God. Say Well done thou good and
faithful servant. Right.
Are, you know, everything about our lives, that tail of Our
Lives, if you will, is not told yet.
But it's reasonable to expect that that he along with us.
Well, hear well done, thou good and faithful servant the my, you
know, the pastor across town. Whoever that happens to be that
is that is morphing. His traditional Independent
Baptist Church into something other than what we've always
stood for something that he thinks is new or that he thinks
is better is going to walk the same golden streets that we do.
Now he's going to eat from the same, you know, tree with 12
fruits that we do. He's going to you know, he's
going to kneel before the same Throne of God that we do.
So we have to understand that they're not the enemy.
They're not the ones that we're fighting against.
He they are not the enemy there, there are Brethren.
The devil is the enemy. There's nothing that he would
like to do more than completely separate Christians, amongst
each other, because the divided force is not going to stand now.
Not only are these men, not the enemy.
I think there are some things that, that, that are that there
are two like about them. You start, especially you get to
know some of these guys and I know, so I don't know, Josh
theis personally have never met him, only things that I've read
that he's written and only things that I've read about
that. You know, some of these other
men that have participated in some of the things that he's
done, and I've read them. So I feel like I have a pretty
good understanding of who he is, even though I have not met.
But I know a lot of guys who are just like him and who really
look up to him and really have that same kind of mindset and on
a personal level. Most of these guys are
relatable, they're not arrogant, you know, there.
And that's one of the things that kind of makes them
influential. They're nice guys, you know, and
and they really have a genuine heart for people and and I think
some of those kind of things are what makes them a little bit
disarming? You know, man, how can they be
that wrong? They're so nice, you know, and
they are a lot of them are that way.
They're very friendly, they're Approachable that they're just
as willing to listen as they are to speak.
But I think like like a lot of younger men in the Independent
Baptist movement, they've seen the damage that's been reached
on families by men of the previous generation who were
married to the church and they were to their wife and let their
kids essentially grow up and live.
However, they wanted to didn't train their children.
And the sad thing is we this is not just 70s 80s, 90s thing.
This is something that you see that goes all the way back to
the 40s and the 50s. 50s. And I mean, you know, Billy
Sunday, Billy Sunday's, kids and Billy Sunday was really
well-known, really Sunday's kids.
I don't even know if they were saved.
Others, who were very well-known evangelist and very well-known
pastors throughout the the, you know, the really the 20th
century had kids, who never grew up and lived for God because
they were more married to the ministry than they were to their
wife and more concerned about what happened in the church, and
they were about what happened with their family and forgot,
their primary Ministry is their family.
But Josh, tell you so I think, you know, leads in that I can't
find fault in the way that he handles himself with his family
and and, you know, I can't speak for how?
Well, he's rearing his family, if you will.
But you know, seems like he and his wife get along.
Well, they have a loving relationship, and and that's not
something that you can fault them for looking at it.
On the ministry side, I think there's a commitment to really
to an accurate knowledge of history and and I think they're
trying to do their best with some of these things.
That they have. And I think at the end of the
day, I do think that they have a passion for Souls where they're,
where they're off and where they're wrong, is in the way
that they go about it. And that's what we're going to
talk about, a lot of these different things.
But so if they're not the enemy and they have things to like
about them, then why bring division where there ought to be
Unity, right? There's a lot of people that
would ask that question. Well, if they're, they're so
nice. And if they have a passion for
souls and everything else, then why even bring this stuff up.
Why even why even caused a division where there should be a
Unity? And I think this is where we
come to Galatians Chapter 2 and as soon as I mentioned this,
you're going to know where we're going with this.
But Peter and Paul were brothers to write, they share the same
Heritage, the same Doctrine. The same Faith, they were
co-laborers, they were serving God.
Together with great ability with great sincerity with great
devotion. But the Bible says, in Galatians
Chapter 2, and verse number 12, but when Peter was come to,
Antioch course, Paul speaking here, I withstood him to the
face because he was to be blamed For before that certain came
from James, he did eat with the Gentiles but when they were
come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them, which
were of the circumcision and the other Jews dissembled likewise
with him insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their
dissimulation. Well, they Brothers.
Yes, where they enemies? Absolutely not.
They were working together for the cause of the gospel and Paul
had power. I think in a lot of ways, Peter
had power, Barnabas had power, but Paul felt it was necessary.
Not to just disagree with Peter, but to actually do that
forcefully. He withstood him to the face.
The Bible says, and publicly essentially what he's saying is,
I said this to Peter before everybody because he needed to
be rebuked publicly because of what he was doing, why was that?
Because there was a lot of other Jews that dissembled likewise
with him. Even Barnabas was taken away in
what Peter had done. And basically, if you didn't
catch what, what Paul was saying is, you know, Pete I had no
problem heat within the eating with the Gentiles, the way that
he was you know, that he should because Jesus Christ came to
save the Gentiles. Well, when James came all the
sudden Peter didn't want anything to do with the Gentiles
anymore. He would only eat with the Jews,
right? And Paul was saying you're dead
wrong in that. That was that a doctrinal issue.
No, not necessarily, it's not a doctrinal issue at all, but the
problem doesn't just lie in the disagreements that I may, or may
not have with somebody that's in another church or another
Pastor, or what another brother in Christ does in his church,
it's the influence that spreading out from those
churches and amongst those men, and who they are influencing.
And it's the Next Generation, especially, but it's even those
in their same generation that they're influencing, as well as
so, it's eventually going to take over.
So the movement that Josh Titus is forming around himself and
other like-minded men really holds the potential to carry a
tremendous really carry away a tremendous number of solid men
and strong churches. And I think I should add that
probably not even the just a potential that it's actually
happening. They are carrying these men away
and we're seeing it happen. Amongst men that have been in
the ministry for even even 4 years, 20. 30 years changing
Bible versions and changing the way that they're doing.
Everything in their churches to the point where they really
don't even look like a Baptist Church anymore, let alone an
independent Baptist Church. But in just a short time, we've
really witnessed a very radical changes and it's not just about
where the Neo Independent Baptist movement is at its,
where is this Neo, Independent Baptist movement going?
And who are they taking with them?
Where is it heading the number of God's people that are that
are going along with it. And that's why this is not some
little disagreement that we can, you know, sit down and discuss
in private between. In two people, this is something
that has very, very big implications and the longer this
movement goes on. The more we are seeing the
impact that this movement is having, because what happens is,
You have these churches, let's just take a charge.
For example let's say this church has 300 people in it and
we're seeing this happen all over the place.
I can think of right now. Five churches off the top of my
head that are in this situation right now, have 300 people in
the church, the pastor starts to really jump in.
On these ideas of, you know, what we need to be more, we need
to be less biblical truth and more, you know, pragmatic the
ends justifies, the means so some things that we May really,
you know, it's a gray area on whether we should do it or not.
Well, if it's going to get people in, then we'll do it.
So they start changing everything.
They relax all the services. And now, you know, now you have
people up there leading in skinny jeans in a collared
shirt, untucked right. And then and then next thing,
you know there's a band up on the stage and and you know
there's seven or eight people standing up there with
microphones on the stage and then the, you know, then the
standards of dress start to change and Then the next thing,
you know they don't look any different than a some
nondenominational church, right? And then the Bible changes and
then everything else just follows right behind that, okay,
that church changed, but guess what?
You have 300 people in that church.
Now, you're strong ones who believe only in the King James
and who are not following that contemporary crowd and
everything else. Down that path or going to
leave, they're going to get others in who are in strong.
Churches who don't like the Wrong stand who are going to end
up going over to that church and joining and every whatever else
and they probably will even grow and that church.
That was 300 is now 350 or 400. But what happens is all the
young people that are growing up in that church?
Don't know about the stand that used to be.
So where some people might say, well that's a little farther
than I'm willing to go with it and this is, you know, that
church is going in that direction.
But this is not as far as we're going to go, but we're going to
stay here that that next generation of kids is being So
influenced by that and does not know the heritage of where they
came from and they're going to be full-blown contemporary
churches if they grow up and even stay in church.
But if they grow up and get called into the ministry, that's
what they're going to start. It's not going to be anything
close to an independent fundamental Baptist Church.
It's going to be a non-denominational Neo
contemporary church at the beginning and then who knows
where it goes from there. And we haven't been far enough
into this yet to see where it's all going to lead, but you can
look at it and say, this is where it's going and this is the
danger in it. So it's very, very important
that we have. This conversation is a
conversation that's not only worth having, but it must be had
if we're going to save that next generation and be in the in the
direction that God wants us to go turn over to Second
Chronicles, chapter 12. Because the consequences of a
departure from our traditional approach to church and Ministry
have to be examined and they have to be weighed.
And to fail in this is to fail in our responsibility, to each
other, to the truth, to Future generations.
To the very God at whose feet were all going to Bow someday.
God gave the same responsibility to the men of the tribe of
issachar and second Chronicles chapter 12 and verse number 32.
And of the children of is sekar, which were men that had
understanding of the times to know what Israel ought to do.
The heads of them were 200 and all their Brethren were at their
commandment. Now I'm not trying to set up set
up, set us up as some kind of Spiritual Authority, but we do
have to be spiritual Watchman and that involves paying
attention to what's going on in the independent fundamental
Baptist world and in these other churches and pointing out the
errors in it. I just want to see our church
church is do well in the eyes of God, and in the lives of a
desperately need Humanity. There's no long-term.
Good to be gained by heading down these this.
Now well-worn path of the Contemporary movement.
No, good. And a lot of grief and I've seen
that happen in just a very short time that this contemporary
movement has been around. And I don't know if I make 20
years, might even be too long you know but it's still a
problem. Started back around that time.
But within the last 10 years, really, you've really seen a lot
of these churches moving in that direction and it's these solid
Independent Baptist Churches, who started weakening their
stand. And now that generation, who was
growing up and almost grown. During that time moved and
started their own churches. And now, they've taken that semi
strong stand. And we can add even more.
And now they're the pastor's of those churches, who are
weakening that stand even more to where the, to the Point where
the generation that they're raising.
Now is going to be so weak, they won't even be able to stay in
Period, let alone be able to stand on the truth of the word
of God. Having said that this is a
quote. And in fact, here's what I want
you to do, as we go through this tonight, I'm not going to take a
lot of time tonight after this, but We're going to go through
all of these points next week and look at them from a Biblical
perspective and you'll see where we're going with this.
Once I start into it here in just a minute but I want you to
see if you can discern for yourself and I told you that
we're going to do. I'm going to do a decent amount
of reading tonight. And I am because I want you to
hear it from them from just ice and for you know as really the
de facto leader of this Neo, Independent Baptist movement,
but see if you can discern for yourself, some things that are
wrong with what this group is defining.
As their Neo Independent Baptist group.
All right? Having said that this is a quote
from Josh theis. He said this, I'm optimistic
about the future of the Independent Baptist movement.
I'm excited when I meet the next generation of men who are
currently inheriting pulpits from their accomplished
predecessors. A thrill that every young Church
planter who shares amazing stories of God's grace in their
local Ministry. Young evangelist who refuse to
engage in denominational politics.
Inspire me, I'm encouraged by Young missionaries who are
decidedly. Not Preferring rather to
contextualize the gospel ministry as taught by the
Apostle Paul. These are the new Independent
Baptist and they are and here's the points that he lays out and
that's what we're going to go through.
So the first thing is he says that they're obsessed with the
gospel. Romans 1:16 he quotes there.
I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of
God and salvation to everyone. That believeth this is this is
what he says, people do not change because they start coming
to our church. People change because they have
a supernatural interaction. Gospel of Jesus Christ.
This is the power that transforms a person's Destiny
from Hell To Heaven. This is the power that brings
life to the dead spirit. This is the power that slowly
conforms an individual into the image of Christ.
It is the preaching of the Gospel.
That brings true change. This is why we bristle at
preaching that minimizes God's work and maximizes man's effort.
We understand that true change will only come to an
individual's life as they quote, grow, in Grace, and in deeper,
understanding of Jesus, not when they are subjected to an
artificial list of Holiness based on personal preferences.
Now again, this is what I want you to try to do tonight guy.
That's that's the first point that he says, they're obsessed
with the gospel. And I'm not saying that every
one of these is wrong or all wrong at least.
So what I want you to do is think about these things as I've
read through them. And as we list these points and
see where you stand on those things, see what you can discern
from those things. See what you think is right
about those things and what you think is wrong about those
things, all right? I'm asking you to to
spiritually. CERN if you will.
Okay. And then I'm not going to tell
you what you have to believe next week but I'm going to give
you some things that I see that are that are right and some
things many things that are wrong with what he's talking
about here. But the second thing then that
he says this new Independent Baptist movement is Neo.
Independent Baptist movement is is committed to the preaching,
the Bible and he quotes 2nd, Timothy 4:2, preach the word be
instant in season out of season reprove rebuke, exhort with all
long-suffering and Doctrine. And by the way, maybe I should
point out that what he's saying in his definitions of these
things, is that this is what we are, essentially.
This is what the old independent Baptists are not.
Okay. But he says this wheel of
expository preaching, we desire to expose what the Bible is
actually saying we loathe, the practice of twisting a scripture
to fit a preconceived idea, some of us expose the scripture
through sequentially preaching through entire books of The
Bible, taking great care to understand each passage within
its proper context. Others prefer a systematic
approach that allows for sermon series.
That comprehensively deals with a specific topic or doctrine.
In both cases, the new Independent Baptist takes great
interest in being true to the original intent of the author.
This is why we dismiss preachers who continually misappropriate
the very word of God at best. These men are naive at worst.
They are knowingly, prostituting the word for personal profit.
I want to say a lot but I'm not going to for the sake of saving
it for next week. But think about that.
Think about think about how he's saying, I know we're going
through it kind of quickly but think about what they're talking
about in speaking and talking about the word of God
contextually. And you know the the idea of
being true to the original intent of the author.
I'll tell you exactly what that does.
It opens it up for you to take any version of the Bible that
you want to take? Because now you're being true to
the intent. Not to the very words of God.
The third thing that they say is that they are men of unity who
despise hyper separatism men of unity who despise hyper
separatism. A quote John. 13:35 by this
shall all men know that ye are my disciples if you have love
one to another, sadly he says. Our movement has been identified
by a misappropriation of one passage about separation while
ignoring so many others about Unity.
These are the hyper separatist. Not only do they separate from
Godly leaders outside of our denomination.
They actively attack fellow Independence.
This has led our movement to divide into Splinter camps of
varying influence in size as if that's not what they're doing
with this whole movement. This has led our movement to
divide into Splinter camps of varying influence in size.
Each group seems to demand complete Here in Synod, only
fundamentals of theology but also to complete agreement in
secondary doctrinal issues, but they go even farther.
They also want uniformity and personal convictions.
And preferential issues like worship style, service
scheduling, building design and Pulpit.
Attire to question. The status quo, bring suspicion
to express, disagreement brings Swift separation.
However, this is changing, the new Independent Baptist is less
enamored with uniformity and more dedicated to Unity.
The the litmus test for Fellowship has nothing to do
with genes versus ties. Hymns versus CCM or Sunday
School versus small groups. We understand that the world is
going to hell and if we are going to reach them, it's going
to take a wide range of doctrinally sound churches that
are going to look extremely different from one another.
It's not only acceptable, it is preferable.
Think about that for a second. I'll give it a, I'll give you a
second to let it sink in about the things that he's talking
about is minimizing everything that, that separates us from the
world. It's exactly what that is.
We'll talk about that more. The fourth thing.
He says, defines the new Independent Baptist movement or
the Neo Independent Baptist movement is that they are turned
off by denominational politics. First Corinthians, 1:12 and 13.
There are more kundera contentions among you.
Now this, I say that every one of you saith, I am of Paul.
All and having will polish, and I have cephas and I of Christ is
Christ divided. That's the that's the passage
that he uses to talk about denominational politics.
They're turned off by that. He says this one of the great
benefits of being independent, Baptist was supposed to be the
lack of denominational control. Sadly our movement has not
always been able to live up to this ideal.
This is partly due to our proclivity toward the inane,
practice of second-degree, third degree and fourth degree.
Separation fear is a terrible thing for R will lead a man to
say what he doesn't believe in order to, please a Critic.
Fear will cause a man to sacrifice transparency at the
altar of influence. Fear will keep them in quiet
when he ought to speak but he'll call it discretion.
Fear will keep a church planter tied to a denominationally
improved method that produces fewer results.
Instead we choose to be men who are more concerned with freedom
of expression and open dialogue than retaining influence and
pleasing critics. Trust me.
I understand the pressure simply by writing this post.
I'm opening myself. Up to reprisals, but I have
found that speaking. The truth is rewarding,
expressing your position is freeing and saying what you
really think is tremendously liberating transparency, doesn't
seem to limit influence, it seems to expand it.
And in some ways he's right on that.
There are a lot of people who do things the way that they do it,
because they're afraid of what somebody else is going to think
about the way that they do it. He's right in that but we'll
talk about a lot of that stuff. Next week.
The fifth thing that they say is that they're dedicated to Fisk
Coleco nobility. He says in second Timothy 45
make, full proof of thy Ministry at the recent idea day East
there, there were many great truth shared about life in
Ministry. And again, we'll talk about idea
day. Later, one of the greatest
quotes of the day was if the Pastoral staff is afraid of
financial accountability. There's a problem far, too many
churches have been destroyed by a pastoral staff on willing to
adopt strict Financial policies. Overspending misappropriation of
funds and even outright theft have brought many churches down
I And great comfort in knowing that this trend is dying away.
In Independent Baptist Church is due to the humility of pastors
and the hard work of deacons. We are to lead in the coming
century and we ought to remove the temptation of financial
corruption. the next one he says is that there are well read no
Pride should be taken in ignorance.
We should primarily be, well, read in the scriptures for they
contain what is needed for life and Ministry, but we should also
be well, read in history science, literature leadership
and pop culture. One of the things I love about
the young Independent Baptist in whom, God, is bringing me in
contact. Is their Readiness to grow.
They're not in bondage to index. Liberum, prohibit, or mm, as was
instituted by the Roman Catholic Church, they read broadly,
always being careful to filter. New thoughts for the inspired
word, this allows them to reach a broader swath of people within
their cultural setting. It also allows them to challenge
their presupposed point of view points of view again.
You know, I don't want to get into it tonight.
Number seven just getting started.
Is what he says. Is something that defines the
Neo Independent Baptist movement, Acts 1:8, you shall
receive power after that. The Holy Ghost is come upon you
and you shall be Witnesses unto me, both in Jerusalem and in all
Judea and in Samaria and unto the uttermost parts of the
earth, he says our generation is just getting started, the world
stands before us. In desperate need of Jesus
Christ, we hold the solution to the world's problems and we are
ready to give him away. We're willing to do anything.
It takes to please, our Lord in advance his kingdom.
We're just now arriving on the foreign field.
We're just now launching our church plant.
We're just now inheriting the established Pulpit.
We are just now beginning to see the possibilities for a
worldwide evangelism. The future is bright the next 40
years, belong to us. Will we be the generation that
turns the nation's back to Christ?
I believe we can for we are just getting started.
Essentially, you see what he's saying here?
Is that essentially all the work of of all the independent
Baptist in all the Baptist Churches before him Have done.
What? Essentially we just took over
and we're just getting started. Sharing the gospel.
We're just getting started. You know, turning all these
churches into what we are is what he's saying.
You know, and I want you to mold those things over this week and
think about some of those things.
And we'll talk about them next week.
But before we end tonight, He wrote this, he wrote this
article and then he published, I think he probably said on a Blog
that he does think, that's where I saw it originally.
But the, the list of responses to that article is just, I mean,
it goes on for days and days and days.
And I went down the rabbit hole so that other people don't have
to and read a bunch of those responses.
And I'm not one that I don't do a lot on Facebook, and I don't
get into arguments with people on.
Line, I just don't do it. There's a lot of things where
I'm like, I want to say this but it's not worth it, it's not
worth it so I don't. But I filled her a lot of these
things through my own, through the word of God and these
different responses and everything else.
But here's one that I came across that I felt I needed to
read for its Clarity because We're going to break all these
things down. One at a time.
And there's a lot that you probably don't know about these
guys and and because maybe you don't, maybe you've never really
looked into it before at all, but a lot of these a lot of
people have questioned. Josh Titus, if you hate the
things that the Independent Baptist and for then why are you
still in Independent Baptist or are you still an independent
Baptist and in response to that? He wrote another whole article
about that. He basically said, yes, I'm
still an independent Baptist because even though I see that
there's tons of problems in the Independent Baptist movement or
the Independent Baptist, Churches there's problems in all
denominations and if I'm just basically, if I changed and
became anything else I'd be jumping out of the frying pan
into the fire, right? So so I'm just going to stay an
independent Baptist but he's not.
That's not what in? And we talk about all these
things. That's not what Independent
Baptist stand for. So you're not you can claim to
be an independent Baptist and in some ways I guess he kind of is
because there is nothing that you know is a set of rules to be
or not to be. Independent Baptist, but that's
not what Independent Baptist and for and they're moving so fast
and so far away from that Foundation.
This guy says it great. He says I don't know who this
guy is but I loved his response and this is what we'll end with.
He said there are many things that I've seen growing up that I
have that. I have a great dislike for many
of which has been mentioned. I've never seen or known any
movement, Southern Baptist, SBC, Southern Baptist Church,
nondenominational emergent, Etc, to be perfect.
I've also come to recognize many things that I'm thankful for it.
You see? It was in the independent
fundamental Baptist summer camps.
That I came to know the Lord as my My Savior and since the
moving of God, in my life to surrender to be a preacher of
the Gospel, it was through the teachings of the scripture by
men of God, that I learned a Biblical Holiness and biblical
separation. It was at the independent
fundamental Baptist conferences were God's stirred.
My heart to live for him. I'm not one to go.
Pick a fight. I believe in being truly
independent, but not a recluse. I'm not in anybody's back pocket
and I'm nobody's boy. But my dad's being an
independent Baptist means something, if we were truly
independent, or we wanted Unity. Then why write an article that
brings more Division and starts a new camp?
These types of Articles? Do not reinforce our
independence but rather begins to lump people into camps.
If you're truly an independent Baptist, then why are there so
many Southern Baptist guys commenting on this blog.
I really don't care what the Southern Baptist Church or the
NEOS do until they poke their nose where it doesn't belong.
Why does your article reach into the hearts of the Southern
Baptist Church? The nondenominational crowd, the
Neo crowd? They want nothing to To do with
our crowd except when we send them the folks that were saved
in our churches, they wanted nothing to do with us until an
article is written by one who claims to be an independent
Baptist that tickles their ear. The Lord does not build churches
that look like a club and sounds like the rock concert from
Saturday night. Those churches are built by men.
Josh, if you're going a Direction, go, why do you need
to see a? Why do you see a need and trying
to influence a movement if you're so independent?
Over the years, I've gotten tired of guys trying to be the
next pope of the Independent Baptist, lead your church and
let others leave. There's article was as much
about what new things you like as it was about the old things.
You don't like you don't like it, leave it and be what you
are. But don't try to say, you're an
independent Baptist when you look like a Southern Baptist
Church, a non-denominational church and emergent Church.
You'll walk like a southern baptist.
Nondenominational emergent Church sound like a southern
baptist. Non-denominational emergent
church I'm not interested in being like them.
Writing articles against them. I don't want them influencing
this generation of young Independent Baptist.
So let me encourage you to go be what you are but stay out of my
Pea Patch. I think I was a great article.
I mean it was just a response but I but that's exactly.
I mean that's my that's my thinking as I'm reading through
this entire article why do you need to create a movement around
yourself if you're so independent and you can go do
what you want to do. Then go be independent to do
what you want to do. Why do you need to create a
movement around yourself, right? I'll tell you why.
It's because they know I know that the direction they're going
is not a good direction and they're trying to justify it.
And the more people you have that you can justify it to the
better, you feel about yourself in the whole thing.
So we're going to talk about all these different points.
We're going to take them one by one and look at them from a
Biblical perspective and see what the problems are with each.
One of these things and then it'll probably it probably will
actually take us another couple weeks on this just because I'll,
this is something that is very, very important.
And I want to us to make sure that we Stand?
Why we're not going in that same direction?
And why were, why were avoiding at all cost going in that same
direction. It's very, very dangerous.
And once you start down that road, you almost can't come back
from it, unless you have a hard break and you split a church and
you lose a ton of people doing it.
And and it's a very, very dangerous dangerous path to
start down and that's why we're not even going to start down
that path, but I think it's important for us to understand
that. There are a lot of churches out
there that are well down that path.
Some that are just turning down that path.
It's dangerous. It's very very dangerous and we
need to understand why. So we'll stop there for tonight.
And then we'll get back into this again next week.
Let's pray. Father, we love you and we thank
you for your goodness to us. I thank you that we do have the
word of God. I pray, not for the sake of
Pride. I pray that it wouldn't be for
the sake of Pride, but for the sake of standing for the truth
and for the sake of being different from this world that
you'd help us to take a stand on the truth of the word of God and
that we wouldn't bend, we wouldn't bout a culture, we
wouldn't bow to the Neo Independent Baptist crowd that
wants every Church to be something different than what it
is. Is God, I pray that you'd help
us to be exactly what you want us to be in this church.
That we'd have a desire for Holiness that we have a desire
to win souls and that because of that, you'd be able to use us in
the way that you want to, and we wouldn't get on our own way and
be a hindrance to the working of the Holy Spirit In This Place.
Well, thank you for all that you do for us in Jesus name.
Amen.