1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,640
From India's largest newsroom, 
I'm Arun George, and this is the

2
00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:15,400
Times of India podcast. 
It was a murder straight. 

3
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,080
Out of a film or perhaps will 
now feature in films. 

4
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,280
A former. 
Minister was leaving his son's 

5
00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,640
office in the northwest suburb 
of Bandra in Mumbai in the 

6
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,320
night. 
As he walked out. 

7
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,040
Fireworks went off. 
That wasn't a surprise since it 

8
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,040
was the festival of the Sahara, 
when fireworks are traditionally

9
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,840
set off. 
Except in this. 

10
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,200
Case as the fireworks went off. 
Three men. 

11
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,560
Quickly walked towards the 
minister and he was shot 

12
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,560
multiple times. 
Bamba Siddiqui's. 

13
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,120
Killing in the suburb of Bandra 
on the night of October 12 made 

14
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,480
national headlines. 
For the audacity with which the 

15
00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:47,960
very. 
Influential and rich Mumbai 

16
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,200
politician was murdered. 
NCP Ajit Pawar Gutkinita Baba 

17
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,800
Siddiqi Ki goalie marker. 
The fact that law and order has 

18
00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,560
descended to this level in 
Mumbai is shocking and 

19
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,080
condemnable. 
Rashmi. 

20
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,680
Rajput has covered crime in 
Mumbai for nearly two decades 

21
00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,600
and writes on crime and central 
investigating agencies for The 

22
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,800
Economic Times. 
She says that even in a. 

23
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,760
City, whose gangland killings 
have been documented in films 

24
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:13,680
and. 
Books this. 

25
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,000
Was a major incident. 
She explains why the killing is 

26
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,800
such a major concern. 
It is a major concern because we

27
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,360
are going to the polls, the 
state goes to the poll on 

28
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,880
November 20th and this incident 
happening just a month before 

29
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,560
that kind of raises a lot of 
questions, especially on its 

30
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,480
police, whether there was any 
kind of Intel input, whether 

31
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,920
they were acting on that Intel 
input and this person was a part

32
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,160
of the incumbent and that is the
maximum or the ultimate 

33
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,280
insurance anybody could have for
their safety. 

34
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,280
So Despite that, there was an 
attack in the broad daylight 

35
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,760
during a festival season that 
raises a lot of questions and it

36
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,760
kind of puts the city police 
under a lot of scrutiny. 

37
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,040
In today's. 
Episode We're looking at the 

38
00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,520
seemingly inexplicable murder in
the city of Mumbai and why it's 

39
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,840
such a worrying. 
Development Rashmi says that the

40
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,440
killing in Mumbai came just 
after the city witnessed 

41
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,759
multiple security drills or. 
Potential terror threats ahead 

42
00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:11,840
of the. 
Festive season. 

43
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,480
So there was an intelligence 
input that was shared by the 

44
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,440
Intel agencies and they were 
specifically about a lot of 

45
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,920
crowded areas like Zaveri Bazaar
where there is maximum footfall.

46
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,760
Therefore there were a lot of 
mob drills post those Intel 

47
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,040
inputs. 
Siddiqui also claimed he had. 

48
00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,720
Received death threats. 
Just 15 days before his death, 

49
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,600
he had been provided additional 
security and even had a Mumbai 

50
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,320
police. 
Official as a bodyguard when he 

51
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,800
was killed. 
Rashmi says that in spite of 

52
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,760
these big security drills, this 
little clarity so far on how 

53
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:46,680
serious the threat. 
Was against Siddiqui. 

54
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,640
Now when in Intel agency it had 
shared this input, whether there

55
00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:55,120
was any input on Mr. Siddiqui, 
whether there was any 

56
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,360
intelligence by Mumbai police, 
whether you know Mr. Siddiqui 

57
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,520
was on the hit list of the 
Lawrence Vistoi gang. 

58
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,640
So all these are a major concern
for the city and for the for its

59
00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:07,600
police and also for the 
government. 

60
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,920
Bamma Siddiqui has been written 
about extensively post his 

61
00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:12,600
death, but here's a quick 
roundup. 

62
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,320
He was in the Congress for 
decades. 

63
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,200
After starting as a student 
politician, he switched over to 

64
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,080
the Ajit Pawar LED faction of 
the NCP in February 2024. 

65
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,880
In the last election he 
contested in 2014, he declared 

66
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,480
financial assets worth 
₹76,00,00,000. 

67
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,760
However, given his involvement 
in multiple high profile real 

68
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,280
estate deals in the region, his 
net worth is estimated to be 

69
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,600
much more. 
His importance in the western 

70
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,520
suburbs of Mumbai also meant he 
was close to some of the Hindi 

71
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,240
film industry's biggest actors. 
He's famously credited with 

72
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,600
ending what was called a Cold 
War between Shah Rukh Khan and 

73
00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,560
Salman Khan at an Iftar nearly a
decade ago. 

74
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,760
After his killing, multiple 
Bollywood personalities 

75
00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,680
expressed shock at the incident.
But when we recorded this 

76
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,840
episode on the 16th of October, 
Rashmi said that political 

77
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,880
parties in the state didn't seem
to be making too much noise 

78
00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,960
about this incident. 
So far we've seen that the 

79
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,360
opposition parties, they have 
not raised or not, there's not 

80
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,720
much clamour like the way we had
when Sushant Singh Rajput 

81
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,640
incident happened. 
Of course, that entire incident 

82
00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,680
is debated whether it's a case 
of suicide, mother, etcetera, 

83
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,760
etcetera. 
But you know there was a lot of 

84
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,400
voices that kind of asked for 
justice in this case. 

85
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,800
Despite an election which is 
going to happen next month, you 

86
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,040
don't see anyone political, 
political party or the 

87
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,640
opposition asking those tough 
questions to the government, 

88
00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:40,080
asking why did the police fail, 
How deep is the presence of the 

89
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,560
Lawrence Vishnoi gang in Mumbai?
What is the state and the Centre

90
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,800
doing to tackle this issue? 
Despite Mr. Siddiqui having 

91
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,080
presence not just in the 
political circles, he had a huge

92
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,520
presence and lot of friends from
the Bollywood fraternity, from 

93
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,960
the business fraternity. 
This person was somebody who had

94
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,160
friendship across various kind 
of industries and Despite that I

95
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,360
feel that the that the clamour 
is less. 

96
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,880
Maybe I might be wrong, maybe as
we progressed before to the 

97
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,440
election, maybe this might issue
might be raised. 

98
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,720
But so far it is the media who 
is doing the talking, asking the

99
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,480
questions, and we don't see any 
one political party raising this

100
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,360
issue. 
By the morning after the 

101
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,320
killing, there was already a 
prime suspect gangster Lawrence 

102
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,480
Bishnoi. 
The gangster, who's originally 

103
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,360
from Punjab, is currently lodged
in the Sabarmati jail in 

104
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,680
Gujarat. 
His operations were believed to 

105
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,480
be limited to states like Delhi 
and Haryana in the north of 

106
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,280
India. 
Then he was linked to the 

107
00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:38,480
killing of Hardeep Singh Niger 
in Canada. 

108
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,200
The killing is at the centre of 
the diplomatic spat between 

109
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,640
India and Canada. 
Presently, Rashmi says that 

110
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,920
while the gangster may enjoin 
outside reputation, the gangs 

111
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,680
operations are much like any 
other gang that the city has 

112
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,880
seen in the past. 
Lawrence Vishnoi gang is like 

113
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:59,200
any other gang working in Mumbai
but it has a very sophisticated 

114
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,240
way of functioning. 
So what it does is that first of

115
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,840
all it hires shooters which who 
are rookie might not have so 

116
00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:09,600
much of criminal records, might 
do the killing for a few ₹1000 

117
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,160
or a few lakh rupees. 
These are people who are 

118
00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:17,240
unemployed, taken from places 
like UP or Haryana, Rajasthan. 

119
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,040
So they come from mostly from 
non crime background. 

120
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,080
They would not have any criminal
antecedents. 

121
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,760
This would be the first time 
very young youngsters. 

122
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,160
You know one of the shooters in 
this particular case, he claimed

123
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,880
he was 17 years old. 
Of course, the Mumbai Police 

124
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,680
then shared the record saying 
that he is 19 years old. 

125
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,760
But these are young kids between
the age group of 17 to 24 who 

126
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,320
are doing this for a few ₹1000 
or a few lakh rupees. 

127
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,640
Then there is the there are 
these mid level operators who 

128
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,960
are responsible for providing 
logistical support, for 

129
00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,080
providing the money to ensure 
there is a safe haven or there 

130
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,160
is a safety home in Mumbai or 
any other place where they carry

131
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,360
out this particular attack. 
Provide the weapon like in this 

132
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,880
case the person who the police 
is looking for, Shubham Lonkar. 

133
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,440
He is the mid level operative of
the gang. 

134
00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,840
The Vishnu gang made its 
presence felt in Mumbai after a 

135
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,360
shooting outside actor Salman 
Khan's home in Bandra in April 

136
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,960
2024. 
While no one was hurt and the 

137
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,400
alleged gunmen were arrested, it
was a bold statement. 

138
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,040
Bishnoi threatened to kill Khan 
in 2018 for the actors role in 

139
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,360
killing a black buck in 
Rajasthan nearly two decades 

140
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,280
earlier. 
Bishnoi claimed it was a 

141
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,120
reprisal for targeting the 
animal that is revered by the 

142
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,560
Bishnoi community in Rajasthan. 
Not surprisingly, it wasn't 

143
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,840
taken very seriously, that is, 
until the April attack. 

144
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,560
Siddiqui's killing was also 
linked to his proximity to 

145
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,680
Salman Khan quickly enough. 
Khans home in Bandra is 

146
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,040
presently under high security. 
We asked Rashmi whether after 

147
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,360
these two incidents, the profile
of the Lawrence Bishnoy gang has

148
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,400
risen significantly in Mumbai. 
You spoke about the operations 

149
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,120
aspect of it, but in terms of 
influence in the city, despite 

150
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,920
the Salman Khan shooting, does 
the Lawrence Vishnu going have 

151
00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,880
any kind of influence within the
city in terms of, you know, the 

152
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,120
stray extortion events that 
would happen earlier and things 

153
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,840
like that? 
Is this gang as visible and as 

154
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,520
operational in the city? 
I feel that these two incidents,

155
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,160
the Salman Khan incident and the
killing of Mr. Siddiqui, these 

156
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,240
two incidents are the incidents 
that the Vishnoi gang would take

157
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,520
it as their so to say. 
Report card to to start the. 

158
00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,960
Extortion racket in Mumbai 
because so for example, now 

159
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,720
after this incident, if there is
any extortion call that is made 

160
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,360
and the person says he's from 
the Lawrence Vishnoi gang, the 

161
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,240
other party would be scared 
because you know these people 

162
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,920
have been successful in 
conducting at least 2 firing 

163
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,600
attacks. 
The extortion racket, so to say 

164
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,880
in Mumbai which has seen a 
vacuum on lull in the last 

165
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,680
couple of years, especially from
the late 2000, it might be kind 

166
00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:02,760
of reactivated by the Lawrence 
Vishnoi gang because they are 

167
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,840
trying to be that gang that 
wants to take over that space. 

168
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,440
You have the big business houses
here, you have the politicians 

169
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,000
here, builders, you have the 
Bollywood here. 

170
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:20,120
If they want to target Mumbai, 
they do now have a kind of 

171
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,840
background so to say, you know, 
because they have been covered 

172
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,480
vividly by the press. 
So it is a concern for the 

173
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,480
police also because they would 
like to eliminate this concern 

174
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,040
because after the 90s or in the 
2000's, the Mumbai police 

175
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,840
managed to kind of eradicate the
presence of the Dawood gang or 

176
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,200
the Chhota Rajan gang. 
And now with a Lawrence Bishnoi 

177
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,880
gang coming in the foray and 
trying to make its presence 

178
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,200
dominant here in Mumbai, that 
would be something that the 

179
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,560
Mumbai Police now will actively 
look at and try to figure out 

180
00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,040
the way to kind of, you know, 
bring them down or ensure that 

181
00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,160
they arrest this incident. 
A lot of the Lawrence Vishnui 

182
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,680
gangs in cities like Delhi and 
Gurgaon have mirrored those of 

183
00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:04,840
Mumbai gangs. 
Incidents where threatening 

184
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,520
calls are made, a gunman turns 
up and shoots in an office and 

185
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,720
killings are done over unpaid 
extortion demands are straight 

186
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,720
out of the playbook of the 
Mumbai gangsters. 

187
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,800
The gangsters and underworld of 
Mumbai have been dissected in 

188
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,120
great detail over the decades. 
The stories of Dawood Ibrahim 

189
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,520
and Sadashiv Nikhalje, better 
known as Chhotarajan, have been 

190
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,000
the stuff of many reports, books
and films. 

191
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,840
At one time, the gangsters would
even give interviews to select 

192
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,000
journalists to claim or disclaim
their role in attacks. 

193
00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,080
Rashmi has seen the gangs 
operations evolve over the 

194
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,160
decades and since the gangs had 
begun changing what they focused

195
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:43,200
on around the 2000s. 
In the 90s, it was the Daoud 

196
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,480
gang or the Chhota Rajan gang 
which was responsible for all 

197
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,720
those extortion calls all all 
the murders that happened on the

198
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,120
streets of Mumbai. 
Subsequently, the Mumbai Police 

199
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,080
came with this ingenious idea 
of. 

200
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,360
Having an encounter squad, they 
were the one who carrying all 

201
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,720
these. 
Various encounters, but they 

202
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,280
kind of so to, so to say, help 
in cleansing the system brought 

203
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,120
Mumbai back in terms of getting 
this cleared out. 

204
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,480
But then even the gang started 
changing the business courses. 

205
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,120
You know, no more extortion was 
the main business. 

206
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,680
Even if you see the Daoud 
Ibrahim gang or the Chota Rajan 

207
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:24,800
gang then moved into other 
businesses like drugs or betting

208
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,360
or even for that matter if they 
wanted to do extortion, it was 

209
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,560
not limited to Bollywood. 
It was then being the one 

210
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:36,240
carrying out the projects on 
behest of certain builders. 

211
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,280
This was very organized, a 
syndicated mafia where you had 

212
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,440
certain builders having links to
certain groups and they were the

213
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,520
one who were doing the 
development or redevelopment 

214
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,520
projects in Mumbai. 
So, so I would say from the 90s 

215
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,600
to the 2000, it kind of change 
into they kind of had a very 

216
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,840
organized way of conducting 
their crimes. 

217
00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,160
And then you found this, 
especially the Dowdy Brian gang,

218
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,760
the D gang, metamorphosizing and
getting into terrorist acts. 

219
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,800
Rashmi said the criminal 
underworld of Mumbai no longer 

220
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,120
believes in dealing in extortion
calls which put them and their 

221
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:11,920
operations in the cross hairs of
the law. 

222
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,720
Like any enterprise, they've 
diversified into activities that

223
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,280
yield more. 
At lower risk? 

224
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,120
The gangs are there, it's not 
that they have gone but they are

225
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,960
doing different kind of 
activities. 

226
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,920
The online betting is a business
that runs into 10,000 crores. 

227
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,040
If you see that being the 
proceeds of crime, who are the 

228
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,160
people who are helping them, 
providing the hawala operators 

229
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,520
or providing the people who are 
required in the dark web to 

230
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,520
conduct these operations. 
These are people from the 

231
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,440
underworld. 
Therefore we don't see them 

232
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,520
doing shootouts or you know 
dirtying the streets with blood.

233
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,640
But the businesses have changed 
and money has moved from other 

234
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,280
to other businesses like drugs 
or online betting which makes 

235
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,680
more money and more lucrative 
businesses for these gang 

236
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,000
operations. 
Rashmi says that in the case of 

237
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,080
the Bishnui gang, they have 
shown that they can operate in a

238
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,160
very organized manner even in a 
city like Mumbai, a place that 

239
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,160
they're not considered to have 
too much influence. 

240
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,280
For example, in the Salman Khan 
case, what we understood during 

241
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,080
the course of the investigation 
that there was not just one 

242
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,120
particular model so to say that 
was working on this. 

243
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,960
There was actually another model
which was which was stationed 

244
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,400
near his farmhouse in Panvel. 
And they were the one also 

245
00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:29,040
wrecking his house in Panvel and
trying to figure out when does 

246
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,480
that actor visit that home and 
what are his movements and all 

247
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,600
that. 
So if suppose this particular 

248
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,840
model which was supposed to 
carry out about the operations 

249
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,240
at the Bandra home fail, then it
was the Panvel model that would 

250
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:46,920
conduct the operations and none 
of the models were aware about 

251
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,120
each other. 
But Rashmi also points out that 

252
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,680
even the so-called 
sophistication of the gang is 

253
00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:55,640
straight out of a playbook that 
has been used by gangsters for 

254
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,880
decades in the city. 
Say that this is the first of 

255
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,960
its kind where a gang is so 
sophisticated, organized. 

256
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,160
I don't think so. 
That would be right because even

257
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,040
the Dawood gang is very 
sophisticated in its approach. 

258
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,040
When it had its own shooters, it
had its own people who would 

259
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,720
manage the operations might who 
are the people who are arranging

260
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,480
for the finances. 
And then of course you had 

261
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,160
people in the Dawood Ibrahim 
gang, that is the Dawood Ibrahim

262
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:22,920
Chota Shakeel. 
They were the one who were 

263
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,920
taking calls on who their target
was. 

264
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,120
So in that way, it is like a 
pyramid structure where one 

265
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,840
person is taking all the calls 
and then the responsibilities 

266
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,680
are divided. 
Now, of course, because you 

267
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,680
know, technology has also been 
helpful to these people in 

268
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,400
managing the operation. 
Like for example in the case of 

269
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,720
the Lawrence Bishnoi gang, what 
we hear from a sources is that 

270
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,600
most of these operations are 
queried. 

271
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,080
By Lawrence Bishnoi from his 
Sabarmati jail, where he's 

272
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,880
launched. 
In terms of gangs, have you ever

273
00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:00,360
had a gang leader, so to say, 
who is sitting in jail and at 

274
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,600
the same time said to be running
operations? 

275
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,040
Yeah, across the country. 
We do. 

276
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,400
We did have Chota Rajan. 
We still still find some cases 

277
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,800
where we with some call or 
something being made. 

278
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,760
The larger question is why are 
they managing to operate and 

279
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,720
they're doing operations in 
India? 

280
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,160
Why are the agencies here not 
taking action against them? 

281
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:26,960
I think so. 
That is the bigger question to 

282
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,440
ask. 
For now, the Mumbai Police are 

283
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,000
still trying to figure out why 
the killing of Baba Siddiqui 

284
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:32,640
took. 
Place. 

285
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,280
But they may as well be in 
Canada when it comes to getting 

286
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,280
access to Lawrence Bishnoi. 
Despite knowing exactly where 

287
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,320
the head of the gang is, they're
unable to get his custody. 

288
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,120
The Ministry of Home Affairs has
passed an order preventing 

289
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,840
Bishnoi, who's also accused of 
helping plan the murder in 

290
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,280
Canada, from being taken out of 
the Sabermati jail in Gujarat 

291
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,800
for any reason. 
Rashmi says that puts a spoke in

292
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,520
the wheel of the Mumbai Police 
that would like to. 

293
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,920
Limit the rise. 
Of Lawrence Bishnoi in the city.

294
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,440
Even the Mumbai Police are 
struggling to even get the. 

295
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,800
Custody or to question Lawrence 
Bishnoi in Sabar Mati who start 

296
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,360
launched Sabar Mati jail. 
So that's a very unique. 

297
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,720
Position that the police is in 
because post the incident of a 

298
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,280
shooting at the actors 
residence. 

299
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,480
The Mumbai police did make 
attempts to question Lawrence 

300
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,280
Bishnoi Sabarmati jail. 
But there is a particular 

301
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,720
section under the Code of 
Criminal procedure that has been

302
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,560
cited and that is the reason why
the police is not able to 

303
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,960
question. 
Of course, the Mumbai police 

304
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,400
will make a fresh attempt. 
But when you are not able to go 

305
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,920
to the person who's responsible 
to carrying out, who's able to 

306
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,800
manage operations or to say from
jail and his operatives are 

307
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,200
functioning and there are people
who are loyal to him. 

308
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,000
And if you're not able to figure
out how is this functioning and 

309
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,440
question the main person, then 
it is a bit difficult and tricky

310
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,160
also for the city police to then
kind of rein in the operations. 

311
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,000
Today's episode was produced by 
Jayaraj Singh and Sahil Gupta. 

312
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,560
For a daily spotlight on people,
ideas and stories that matter, 

313
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,359
subscribe to us. 
We're available on the Times of 

314
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:15,119
India website, Spotify, Apple, 
Amazon, or wherever else you get

315
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,000
your podcasts. 
For any new steps of feedback, 

316
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,800
mail me at 
arun.george@timesgroup.com.