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From India's largest Newsroom. 
I'm are enjoyed, and this is the

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times of India podcast. 
We will indeed weather 

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department, has issued a heat 
wave warning for multiple parts 

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of North India, including New 
Delhi, the national capital 

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terminal out of government has 
issued an advisory asking people

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not to venture out unless it's 
absolutely necessary. 

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Jim talked about, yeah. 
Across the country, the years, 

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highest temperatures are being 
reported, thousands of cases of 

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heat. 
Related elements have been 

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recorded across the country. 
However, we have no accurate 

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estimate of heat-related deaths,
the meteorological department 

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has issued multiple warnings in 
regions for heat waves, but we 

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don't know how many people are 
the most at risk due to such 

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high temperatures, Most states 
in India. 

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Now, have a heat action plan, as
a policy to deal with heat waves

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and high temperatures. 
But as a study by the 

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delhi-based center for policy, 
research found many of the 

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plans, don't get it. 
Demented very well or provide 

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much relief to those most 
affected by the heat. 

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One of the authors of the report
are the the appeal a joins us on

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the show today to talk about how
India deals with heatwaves 

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presently and why it will need 
to change in the coming years as

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if they talk stores about why 
there's no escaping, super hot 

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summers anymore and how we are 
risking health and economic 

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impacts by not dealing with it 
properly. 

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So are they the we're recording 
this on a day when it's yellow 

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Alert in Delhi, where 
temperatures been in the 40s for

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days? 
Now, is this an unusual year or 

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is this what we're going to get 
used to now? 

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Yeah, it's 11:17 in the morning 
and it's all day over 40 

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degrees. 
This is not an unusual year so 

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far. 
Especially this month is not 

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been unusual by any stretch of 
the imagination day. 

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He does cross into the 40's 
quite often. 

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Today, we've had a heatwave, a 
lot declared which means it's 

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going to be exceptionally hot 
and I think you can see the 

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effects of that on the street. 
But then the question is over 

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heat. 
Wave alert has been declared how

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much should it change visibly 
change the functioning of 

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society and the economy and 
clearly today to my mind apart 

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from these small things. 
Pretty much nothing has really I

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couldn't wait. 
So which, which makes me think 

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about how much we should react 
to heat waves, what's the 

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acceptable amount and for what 
type of heat. 

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The one, an unusual moment of 
this summer came actually before

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the summer, which was in fehb, 
when we had the hottest fehb in 

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history, and February is not 
usually known to be a hot month.

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And last year we had an 
extremely hot March. 

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So this now, two years in a row.
We Get a sense that the 

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temperature spike is coming 
earlier and that has all sorts 

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of economy-wide impacts because 
the economy structure on having 

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relatively cool temperatures to 
admit much, especially 

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Agriculture and so. 
On this year, we've also had 

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this prediction that 
temperatures will rise by 1.5 

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degrees. 
Could you explain what that 

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means? 
Is it that you like say we are 

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right now at 42 degrees of the 
highest and the highest 

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temperature today could be like 
a 40 to 43 degrees. 

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Does it mean that we will be at 
45 degrees from next year 

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onwards? 
What happened was the wmo put 

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out a modeling study that 
suggested and this is a 

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forward-looking study. 
It's a forecast for the next 

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five years and they asked how 
much is temperature going to 

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increase from the pre Industrial
Average and this is the global 

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average temperature, right? 
So it doesn't mean anything for 

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any specific place. 
It's not an indication that it 

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was supposed to be 43 today. 
It's going to be 44.5. 

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That's, that's not how it works.
So global average, some places 

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will heat much more and 
someplace where heat much less. 

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They said the chance of us 
breaching 1.5 degrees of the pre

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Industrial Average, one point 
five degree warming for at least

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one of the next five years was 
likely, and there was a 98% 

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percent probability that the 
next five years. 

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Will be hotter than the previous
five, but I think what it means.

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I think you step back from the 
fine print, it's important. 

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No a, the planet is getting 
warmer very fast. 1.5 is 

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Hallowed Ground because it is 
baked into the Paris agreement, 

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and it is what all our Global 
Collective action has been 

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targeted towards over the last 
decade or so, taking off from 

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that, we should learn that 
they're going to be significant 

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impacts and it's not just here. 
Eat right. 

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It's also about Coastal erosion,
it's about forest fires, it's 

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about sea, sea level rise. 
And what that means for coastal 

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cities is what river, flooding, 
Urban, flooding, all of those 

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things are now brought into the 
spotlight with a 1.5 increase 

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since we're focusing on here 
today, you know, Major Tool that

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we look at and really the only 
policy we have when it comes to 

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tackling or dealing with the 
heat is your heat action plan, 

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which is now Across the country 
in a report that you've done for

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CPR. 
You pointed out that these are 

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largely ineffectual and don't 
really do much. 

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Could you explain why? 
Yeah. 

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So the first thing is not every 
city that needs a heat action 

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plan has one, not every state 
has one and not every district 

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has been. 
So we in our study, we try to 

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actually take a look at heat 
action plans or understand what 

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they do and don't do well. 
So Deli right now. 

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We have a heat wave alert but we
don't have a functioning Heat. 

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Action plan. 
So there are still gaps but the 

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positive story here is that you 
know, in a long did decade we 

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went from one heat action plan 
and I'm the bird which is the 

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Forerunner to all these other 
cities to today. 

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Ten years down the line we found
37 and we definitely think there

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are more that we weren't able to
get a Hands-On. 

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So that's an encouraging story, 
that heat planning has become 

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something that governments now 
do. 

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And this is happening at a very 
Decentralized localized level, 

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right? 
So the fact that it's bottom-up,

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I think seems to indicate at 
some level that heat is 

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recognized as a problem. 
So that's the good news. 

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We're not at a place where the 
worst of heat is kicked in. 

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So this is the learning period. 
People are dying through this 

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and we need to make sure that we
learn every possible lesson from

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all these incidents that happen 
in terms of the in terms of 

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understanding. 
In what heat action plans do and

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don't do well. 
One of the things that they do 

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and because we had this data set
of, you know, 37 plans with okay

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is quite cool. 
Why don't we actually look at 

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all the solutions proposed and 
understand what the solution map

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is and in doing so we realize is
like a wealth of solutions 

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across across the board. 
You name it, everything that 

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you've seen in anything about 
heat plans across the world, 

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Indian, he plans have That's 
great. 

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One of the problems is they were
not very localized. 

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So you have these Solutions. 
But are they adapted to the 

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named reality? 
The local River reality of a 

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place, right? 
Some places are humid in human, 

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heat can be lethal, some places 
have warm lights, which means 

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you can't rest at night. 
So, they are these questions 

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about the type of heat there 
questions about how that Society

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is dealt with heat in the past, 
which means how many people Have

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died at this x temperature. 
If you want to declare a 

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heatwave, What temperature would
you declare a heat wave at? 

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So if you were to declare a heat
wave at a point, you know, in 

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the past has triggered debts, 
which means local adaptation. 

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Techniques person in the 
community adaptation techniques 

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have been surpassed, which is 
why you get debts then that's 

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when you declare for that. 
You need local data on mortality

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and then finally 
socioeconomically, where are the

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most Double people made by the 
people who are working heat, 

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expose jobs. 
Where do they live? 

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What kind of houses do they live
in? 

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Do they have access to 
electricity and water. 

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So, that that level of 
localization, we didn't see a 

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whole lot of vulnerability 
assessments, for example, which 

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is actually asking these 
questions about where the 

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wonderful people live, who the 
wonderful people are. 

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So that's, you know, pregnant 
women and so on and so forth, at

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have need have one ability 
assessments only two of the 37 

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to of the 37 heat action plans 
had one pretty assessments now. 

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We know the jodhpur heat action 
plans, just come out, has a 

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vulnerability assessment. 
So we're looking at about less 

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than 10 percent of Indian heat 
action plans. 

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Having this perhaps the biggest 
cause of worry is the 

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institutional structure around 
heat action plan, right? 

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And the problem there is there 
not financed in most cases the 

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solution often touted in heat 
action plans is can you build 

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our Solutions into existing 
departmental budgeting and you 

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know as well? 
I do that states and cities Etc 

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are fiscally stressed a lot of 
the time and don't really have 

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the room to take on new new 
projects. 

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They're not encased in any sort 
of Legal Foundation and they 

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have no independent evaluations 
because heat is something that's

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changing every year. 
These things have to be revised 

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every year, which means you need
evaluations. 

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And most importantly, I think 
you need to have a conversation 

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with people who are heat 
affected while you're revising. 

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The plan which means actually 
going out there conducting your 

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Choppers, and your focus group 
discussions and whatnot, and 

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coming back in and rewriting 
your plans. 

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We didn't see too much evidence 
of that either. 

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So the questions about the 
implementation efficacy here, 

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but there are also some 
positives that we found. 

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So the, but again, I just want 
to say that these are early days

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and the idea behind writing this
report was, can we now move 

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things in a direction where 
India can really establish 

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itself as a model for how to 
deal with one of the worst 

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effects of climate change. 
So, do I think that's a separate

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conversation of when heat waves 
are being declared and so on. 

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But your broader point, I think 
stands, which is I think we are 

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now with heat. 
We're at a tree public awareness

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phase in terms of this heat 
being substantially different in

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a way. 
Think about air pollution in 

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Northern cities about Seven, 
eight years. 

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Why even now to a great is 
degree, right? 

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So, there's there is a public 
awareness issue. 

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Things are being done, mostly at
least on paper. 

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Things are being done. 
You have to communicate what 

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heat is to people. 
And all of these heat action 

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plans have a significant 
information block of solutions 

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so that there is a traditional 
early warning system 

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communication which is you know 
lime D will be issuing only 

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wanting to communicate that but 
also And it's communicated, they

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have activities to go out then 
build knowledge and capacity not

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only amongst vulnerable 
populations but also amongst 

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government officials traffic 
cops everyone who has anything 

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to do with the lived reality of 
a city, or a town or a village 

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on on a day-to-day basis. 
So this is very expansive 

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knowledge, building exercise. 
And they also now rely very much

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on Modern communication 
techniques such as WhatsApp 

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groups, and, of course, they 
have Older, things like the 

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radio jingles. 
And now recently, we've seen a 

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bunch of s tma's come out with 
YouTube videos and YouTube 

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shorts, but what I wonder is How
effectual they are. 

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So that that is really the Gap 
because we have Solutions on 

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paper, we don't know how well 
they're being implemented and I 

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suspect. 
There's a variation 

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implementation across the 
country but you know, you said 

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that like with air pollution 
that it's 78 years since we 

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started talking about it you 
don't really see a sort of, what

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would you say public outrage or 
public? 

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Demand for cleaner air or 
something like that? 

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Can we afford to be as I'm about
it with heat because it's as 

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direct and impact as say bad 
error. 

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Yeah, I mean, anything, in terms
of the deaths, I mean air is so 

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much higher than heat. 
I mean, those are lancers report

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and massive numbers of people 
dying because of direct exposure

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to air pollution. 
And then, additionally, there is

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this interaction between air 
pollution and heat which is the 

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exposure to air pollution will 
greatly exacerbate, the 

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potential for a heat that which 
is people came. 

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Out recently. 
So there is obviously a really 

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big problem. 
The public awareness for it is 

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obviously not near enough 
especially in a city like Delhi 

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and I think anecdotally, I think
both of us probably ask people. 

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What do you think about this P? 
Super smog that you're in you 

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can't even see your hand 
outstretched in front of you and

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people say, oh you know it's 
just the fog, it's not smoke. 

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I think it's different in 
different cities right? 

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I think Bombay. 
For example, this year, correct 

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me if I'm wrong. 
It felt like there was a pretty 

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big sort of like, push back on 
pollution, especially from civil

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society and and folks on the 
ground, which we haven't seen as

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much in Delhi. 
But here's the thing, right? 

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So we had, for example, the 
Delhi government make it a core 

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issue in the last election. 
So it was actual campaign issue.

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I don't think it's the case. 
That there is no increase in 

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public awareness around this. 
What I've taken away from that 

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is Is it takes a proper decade. 
I think between something 

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popping up in the policy space 
in a building like CPR or in 

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other places across the country 
and it becoming sort of 

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entrenched in the lived patterns
of people's existence, right. 

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So what with he too, can you 
afford to take that long to like

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I'm saying if we are talking of 
higher temperatures in hotter 

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places? 
I mean we Looking pretty 

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unbearable temperatures for long
periods of time and can you say 

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then, save it for, you know, 
half a decade before. 

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Firstly, I don't think so. 
I don't think you can wait a 

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decade before because a day, I 
mean, think about how quickly 

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things have been moving, right? 
In terms of climate impacts. 

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What I am suggesting is, that's 
the pattern just based on the 

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case of are, right? 
I, you know, I think localized 

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climate impacts, especially, 
pollution related hazards, may 

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be that, that system of He 
engage ment and opinion-forming 

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operates faster. 
But in this broad diffuse, 

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Invisible Killer, which is what 
are is. 

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And heat is also brought diffuse
Invisible Killer. 

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I think it takes a long time 
unless you have a concerted 

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political effort to identify 
this as a problem and the 

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concerted political gains to be 
made from solving that problem. 

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Now are, is very difficult to 
solve. 

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I think heat is even harder 
because you can't solve it. 

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There is no stopping the heat, 
you can stop there. 

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00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,600
There's no stopping me. 
He's all you can do is invest in

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making sure people don't die and
when people don't die, it's not 

266
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a new story. 
So there's something. 

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Wonky about the political 
feedback structure around heat 

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00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:04,300
and around. 
A lot of adaptation vestments. 

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There is a chance. 
What will change things sadly? 

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And very, unfortunately, is a 
major heat that the rent. 

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And we've seen that to them. 
The birth where the public 

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Machinery, kicked into gear. 
We've seen that, in Orissa in 

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00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,000
the late 90s, public Machinery, 
kick it in gear Telangana. 

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Now has a cool roofs program, so
that that is a system that sort 

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of Spurs, a Machinery into 
action. 

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But when it's an organic thing 
like are it's invisible fuse, 

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00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:32,400
and all you have is modeling to 
suggest what the death death 

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potential is? 
It feels like that. 

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Sort of absorption of Hazards is
less efficient in. 

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00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,200
The Indian Indian public 
imagination than these sort of 

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like gory death based events in 
terms of adaptation and other 

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00:16:49,100 --> 00:16:53,700
thing is how you spoke of 
various policies can be used to 

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sort of improve our adaptation 
towards it. 

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00:16:56,900 --> 00:17:02,700
But how much is that happening? 
Presently and how prevalent are 

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00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:05,400
such adaptation measures 
currently in India. 

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00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,099
So it's hard to say because our 
report I mean, the study we've 

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00:17:09,099 --> 00:17:12,000
done is purely based on 
analyzing the Action plans 

288
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,500
themselves. 
In the next phase of our 

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00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:15,599
research will be about the 
actual implementation. 

290
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,400
So I'll be able to give you a 
rigorous answer more rigorous, 

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00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,800
answer down the line in terms of
how much they're being 

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00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,099
implemented. 
I think anecdotally, we know 

293
00:17:26,099 --> 00:17:28,800
that some cities actually do 
care about implementing this 

294
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,000
stuff. 
Other cities, may not have the 

295
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,900
capacity, awareness and then 
there's a third layer of cities 

296
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:37,600
that have just released heat. 
Action plans, is completely new 

297
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,300
document and so we have 
absolutely no idea in a way the 

298
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,600
You asking is very early in the 
sense in three years from now, 

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00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,500
we like she I think have a much 
better sense of what the level 

300
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:50,900
of implementation, so these 
solutions that are proposed 

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00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,400
every single heat action plan. 
And significant chunk related to

302
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,100
do's and don'ts Which means the 
person behavioral change is 

303
00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:03,500
actually at the core of every 
heat action. 

304
00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:06,700
Plan has a large chunk of it 
devoted to those do's and 

305
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:13,300
don'ts, which means person 
Behavior change is at the core 

306
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:19,400
of not only society's response. 
But also the state's response to

307
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,200
heat all of that is just a 
recognition that heat is now 

308
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,400
surpassing the personal 
deputation capacity of an 

309
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,700
individual. 
And therefore the state needs to

310
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:32,600
intervene the corrective action,
but there's a lot that still 

311
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,200
happening in the personal realm,
but languid air, Heats a bit 

312
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,900
like that, right leg. 
If you can afford air 

313
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:40,700
conditioning, you have an 
air-conditioned house. 

314
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:44,600
But if you can't afford it, then
what really do you do, right? 

315
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,600
Because how do you go around 
that aspect of it? 

316
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,500
Because like you mentioned, the 
financing is a major point, 

317
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,000
right? 
And who foods that bill finally 

318
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:56,100
I think. 
Yeah, it's very similar to are 

319
00:18:56,100 --> 00:19:00,500
in the is that I think there's 
going to be a section of Rich 

320
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:04,300
well-heeled. 
Well, informed society, that 

321
00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:07,200
sort of blocks themselves or 
from the environment. 

322
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:09,500
And that's a good thing. 
That's a good thing. 

323
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:14,000
That's not a bad thing, every 
person needs to have protection,

324
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,400
right? 
And similarly, with the air 

325
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,500
conditioners, let's hear it's 
already here. 

326
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:23,000
I intend in terms of AC sales, 
the National Grid is now 

327
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,500
actually thinking about AC uses 
like a big driver. 

328
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:30,500
Be consumption, which is not the
case, like 10 years ago. 

329
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,600
If you read the papers, that's 
not what we were thinking about.

330
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,300
So that is here and I think the 
trajectory is going to be very 

331
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:43,200
much a see dominated, but the 
problem there is it's going to 

332
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,500
increase India's emissions which
will just increase heat down the

333
00:19:46,508 --> 00:19:48,400
line. 
So is this permanent death 

334
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,100
spiral of ecu's? 
Because creating heat and then 

335
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:54,900
use more and it's a problem for 
the rest of the world. 

336
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:58,000
Also, of course. 
And then there's the The hfcs 

337
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,700
the gases are used in the ACs, 
which have a significantly 

338
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:05,100
higher warming potential than 
carbon dioxide. 

339
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:08,000
I don't think you can step away 
from Air Conditioning use. 

340
00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:12,400
I don't think it's right. 
I think we really need to figure

341
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,300
out how to make air conditioning
more renewable friendly, make 

342
00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:20,700
their hfcs less warming. 
And make it more energy 

343
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,300
efficient, but that's only one 
part of it. 

344
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:25,800
There are all sorts of very 
interesting Solutions out there,

345
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,700
but a lot of them like, in the 
mitigation space, a lot of them 

346
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:34,000
experimental not been scaled. 
So on so forth and not all of 

347
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,800
this is cheap, right? 
Even if you're saying take, he's

348
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,600
he's everywhere that it's not 
like a lot of this country can't

349
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:46,700
afford that AC everyday kind of 
thing when you do when I was 

350
00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:48,800
saying, you know, plug it into 
the Renewables. 

351
00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:54,000
And if you think about some sort
of storage option because you 

352
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,900
can't have the entire country 
running a series at night, you 

353
00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,900
really need significant amounts 
of Technology, you need 

354
00:21:01,900 --> 00:21:03,700
Innovation. 
I think you'll also need tech 

355
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:07,100
transfers from companies that 
are currently leading that are 

356
00:21:07,108 --> 00:21:11,900
not based in India and making 
that available cheaply and some 

357
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:19,000
level of the global compact 
round technology transfer show. 

358
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:22,900
Should be directed at cooling. 
Specifically, if you can bring 

359
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:27,500
down costs enough, And if you 
can make sure it's sustainable, 

360
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:31,900
then it can occupy a chunk of 
the cooling needs of the country

361
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:35,600
without destroying personal 
wallets and the atmosphere 

362
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,000
simultaneously. 
Right. 

363
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:41,000
I'm only saying this because it 
feels like this is almost 

364
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,800
inevitable that this would be an
air conditioning LED response. 

365
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:50,200
It is aspirational, it is an 
incredibly hot country and it 

366
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,700
makes such a huge difference to 
your lived reality and gives you

367
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:56,400
energy. 
During the day and sleep at all 

368
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,600
of those things. 
And especially when kids are 

369
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,700
involved every parent, if they 
can afford, it will do this, 

370
00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:07,900
right? 
So there has to be a concern of 

371
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:11,200
effort in bringing the cost down
and making the technology more 

372
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,500
sustainable. 
And then building all of these 

373
00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:17,900
other Solutions into it as well.
I feel like there has to be a 

374
00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:22,200
balancing act but with heat 
rising. 

375
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,700
One thing that we noticed is in 
every city You hitting new Peaks

376
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:28,300
chain, nice reporting up 
temperatures. 

377
00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:31,500
It has never seen in the bud, 
which started the heat action 

378
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:34,300
plan, complains that it's not 
effective anymore. 

379
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:40,500
How much could this affect? 
How our cities are as in. 

380
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,300
You, spoke about how the GDP 
itself could potentially fall 

381
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,600
with this. 
Could you talk about that 

382
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,000
aspect? 
I think the two questions in 

383
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,400
that. 
The first is the broader 

384
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,800
economic ramifications of this. 
And in terms of how cities 

385
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,100
function I think we're now 
getting enough evidence to 

386
00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:03,100
suggest that we significant 
drops in labor productivity. 

387
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,600
I so this is ILO study that 
tries to locate losses in labor 

388
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,600
productivity which says 
somewhere in the mid 90s we were

389
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,200
losing about 4.3 percent of 
working hours to heat. 

390
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,900
Now it's at five point eight 
percent by 2030. 

391
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:18,900
I think they suggest on a very 
low conservative emissions 

392
00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:24,800
pathway and it'll increase over 
time. agriculture is a different

393
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,700
story because They suggested 
over nine percent of 

394
00:23:28,708 --> 00:23:31,200
agricultural. 
Labor laws will be lost by 2030 

395
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,800
so it affects cities and 
agriculture slightly 

396
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,200
differently, but it will affect 
both very badly. 

397
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,700
I think it's important to 
remember that if you can't be 

398
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:43,300
working, and that's the idea, 
right? 

399
00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:47,200
I think they have established 
thresholds of when people stop 

400
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,900
working or forced to stop 
working. 

401
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,000
If you can't stop working, I 
think the problem is that is 

402
00:23:53,008 --> 00:23:58,600
start leading to public health 
problems because So if you can't

403
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,300
afford to take out days wage 
cut, then you end up in a 

404
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:05,000
situation where you have to go 
to the hospital, or was if 

405
00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:08,300
there's also the second order, 
question about whether you can 

406
00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:13,500
stop working, if you want to, if
you have an employer, that does 

407
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:17,500
not want you to stop working, 
and does not want to comply with

408
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:22,300
it. 3:48 restriction on work on 
their construction site. 

409
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:25,500
What does one do? 
So then there's a question about

410
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:29,000
how much Collective How much 
state enforcement are these apps

411
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,400
actually implementable and 
enforceable. 

412
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,100
And also 5.8%, I think will 
affect some sectors worse than 

413
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:39,000
others, right? 
And some people from Summit 

414
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,400
communities and some cars in 
some areas, work in some 

415
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,600
sectors, more than others, 
right? 

416
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,500
So there's a massive Equity 
problem at the heart of all of 

417
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:51,800
this. 
The second part, the second 

418
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,100
answer to your question is also 
about how does it change, what 

419
00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:59,000
cities are in towns are I think 
if you think about heat action 

420
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,400
plans is imagine a world where 
these heat action plans and all 

421
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,700
the other plants around climate 
adaptation are enforced and 

422
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:11,100
financed. 
The, some of it is you'll have a

423
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:17,400
very very, very different 
structure and shape to any sort 

424
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,900
of city or town, right? 
It means changing how the 

425
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:24,300
streets are laid out. 
Changing what the buildings look

426
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:26,500
like changing. 
How many trees that are? 

427
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,500
Trees. 
They're changing also, what land

428
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:31,300
uses which is the most political
thing. 

429
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,700
If we want to really prepare for
this, I think we have to imagine

430
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:39,800
these things differently. 
A bunch of incremental changes, 

431
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,000
I think will lead up to 
something very different. 

432
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,500
It's not about restarting, the 
whole system, but making 

433
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:48,100
incremental changes that 
eventually then lead to a 

434
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:51,300
transformational change. 
And these heat action plans. 

435
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:53,900
All these other plans are 
actually transformative 

436
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:55,700
documents. 
The question is whether you can 

437
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:59,100
build the institutional support 
for it and tweet the solutions 

438
00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:00,800
to make sure that effective and 
all of that. 

439
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,700
But ultimately, you're looking 
at a very different country if 

440
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:09,600
you take adaptation series, 
Visually, it would be different.

441
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:19,600
Today's episode was produced by 
Jay Raj, Singh soon. 

442
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,600
I moratti and on Vijay Singh for
a daily Spotlight. 

443
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,600
On people ideas and stories that
matter subscribe to us, we're 

444
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,900
available on T. 
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445
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,800
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446
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,800
For any new steps email us at 
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447
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:38,400
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