1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,680 From Indias largest newsroom, I'm Arun George and this is the 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:15,480 Times of India podcast. You have to deliver a world 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,280 class team that succeeds across formats and geographies. 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,080 You need to inspire future generations and present team 5 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:23,440 members. You have to review, enforce, and 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,120 maintain discipline. You have to be below the age of 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,760 60 if you fit these criteria and have played a minimum of 30 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,720 tests or 50. ODIs. 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,440 Then you perhaps should apply for the post of the Indian men's 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,800 cricket team coach, the sports richest and most powerful body. 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,000 The BCCI is looking to hire a coach for the next three years, 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,200 with current coach Rahul Dravid saying he doesn't plan to stay 13 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,400 on after the T20 World Cup later this year. 14 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,320 The legendary batsman, who took over as coach in 2021, has shown 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,880 no interest in extending the tenure of his contract. 16 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:55,680 We asked our guest on today's show if that's a surprise. 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,920 Not at all really, because if anything his tenure was to come 18 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,040 to an end naturally after the last fifty over World Cup. 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,560 It was only because there was a key tour to South Africa coming 20 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:12,360 up very soon after and there was the T20 World Cup, which is 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,120 almost upon us now. And there wasn't really. 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,640 The board did not give themselves enough time to run 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,720 the process of picking a new coach, so he was asked to stay 24 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,000 on for a little longer. Otherwise I think he would have 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,880 left after the 50 over World Cup itself. 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,760 He's just staying on to do a kind of a caretaker job at the 27 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,440 moment. That's Anand Vasu, our guest on 28 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,720 today's episode. Anand has been writing about 29 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,680 cricket for two decades and is a frequent columnist for The Times 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,600 of India and The Economic Times. In today's episode, we're in 31 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,200 conversation with Anand about the front runners for the Post 32 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,520 and the others who might make for good candidates. 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:51,480 We also. Talk about the challenges the 34 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,240 new coach will face and whether India should be looking for an 35 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,680 Indian or a foreign coach. We started by asking Anand to 36 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,400 evaluate Dravid's tenure as India coach. 37 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,360 With Dravid itself, he was projected as a bit of a 38 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,800 reluctant coach who took the job after he was pushed into it by 39 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,240 Saurav Ganguly. How do we view his tenure as 40 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,280 coach? Yes, I think his tenure as coach 41 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,080 has been quite a mixed one. The tremendous success that he 42 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,560 had at the National Cricket Academy and with the India A 43 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,800 teams LED everyone to believe that you know, he's going to 44 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,840 work miracles when it came to the Indian Test, ODI and T20 45 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,080 teams also. Obviously the biggest thing is 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,640 the lack of World Cup trophy, which continues to haunt this 47 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:39,760 Indian team. That's something that Dravid has 48 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,280 not been able to fix and perhaps that's the last box left to be 49 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,520 ticked for him with the T20 World Cup that's coming up in 50 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,960 the West Indies and America. As for him being a reluctant 51 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,160 coach, I think he worked very well with the India A and the 52 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,720 National Cricket Academy teams because that is a much more 53 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,560 process oriented kind of approach where you're developing 54 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,800 players, developing teams rather than necessarily looking to win 55 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,240 every single match that you play. 56 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,360 When you're coach of the Indian national team, you don't have 57 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,480 that much elbow room to work with players or to develop 58 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,600 players or to try out different combinations or different 59 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,160 players because there is tremendous pressure to win every 60 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,000 single match that you play Now. This is especially true in Test 61 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,400 cricket. With the World Test Championship 62 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,600 having kicked into place, every single game now is a must win 63 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,920 pretty much, and especially at home, because you know you're 64 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,440 going to lose some games away in tougher conditions like in South 65 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,720 Africa or in Australia or in England. 66 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,040 So that makes every single home game must win. 67 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,560 And we've seen this desperation translate into, you know, some 68 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,320 pretty difficult pitches by and large, apart from perhaps the 69 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,320 last series that India played at home. 70 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,040 So I think Javid's tenure as coach, it's a mixed bag. 71 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,520 I don't think it's as successful as people might have thought it 72 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,840 could have been. But overall you would say no 73 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,120 real complaints. Apart from the fact you've not 74 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,160 seen enough young players come on and improve and seal their 75 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,440 places time and again this team has had to go back to older 76 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,360 players. We saw that with Pujara being 77 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,200 recalled in the Test team, with Rahane being recalled in the 78 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,280 Test team and then the team went in One Direction T20 cricket and 79 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:33,920 almost a year you didn't have Virat Kohli or Rohit Sharma 80 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,960 playing and then come a big tournament, The two are both 81 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,520 back in the mix on the back of some strong IPL performances, it 82 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,040 must be said. But it's definitely AU turn in 83 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,480 policy of sorts. So yes, it's been a mixed bag. 84 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,600 I think that's the only way you can look at this tenure of 85 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,360 Dravid as coach. But like you said, given your 86 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,480 Indian coach, this sort of U-turn in policy is is powerful 87 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,680 the course in some ways, right? I mean, isn't this typically how 88 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,840 the Indian team operates? Well, it's not just the Indian 89 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:08,040 team. I think it's the whole 90 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,840 ecosystem. It's the BCCI, it's the 91 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:14,680 selectors, it's the coaches, it's all put together. 92 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,680 I think the selection for the C20 World Cup especially has 93 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,640 been kind of a safe approach at a time when the game is changing 94 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,960 so rapidly, especially in terms of batting and bowlers are 95 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,200 trying to cope with 250 plus scores and 200 scores on a 96 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,680 regular basis. You would have thought that the 97 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,960 way forward was to unleash more fearless young cricketers, 98 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,720 especially batsmen, and there is no shortage of these in India. 99 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,200 There's plenty of people who are making runs very quickly. 100 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,320 They may not be making the big hundreds, but you don't 101 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,400 necessarily need that in T20 cricket. 102 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:53,920 You need people who can make an explosive impact in a short 103 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,040 period of time. And India have chosen to kind of 104 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,880 err on the safe side, if you will. 105 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,600 And I think this is a mentality that happens a lot with Indian 106 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,160 cricket, especially when it comes to World Cups and big 107 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,880 tournaments. I know you said this about 108 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,400 Dravid, that the sort of work he did in the NCA and the under 21 109 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,160 teams. Do you feel like we rushed him 110 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,040 into this post of national coach in some ways? 111 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,040 And was it maybe a better idea to let him be at the NCA and 112 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,320 under 21 for a few more years before we pulled him into the 113 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,000 national team? I don't know if there was ever 114 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,640 going to be a right time to move from the NCA to the national 115 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,160 team. They're completely different 116 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,000 jobs. I mean, one is a very much 117 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,920 developmental job, while the national team is much more of a 118 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,360 management kind of job because you're working with cricketers 119 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,600 who are already pretty much the finished product. 120 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,280 They've proven themselves time and time again at the 121 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:52,000 international level, so there was never going to be a right 122 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,200 time in that sense. What would a few more years at 123 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,000 the NCAA have done? It would have allowed him to 124 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,240 work with some more upcoming cricketers, but the NCS setup 125 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,960 itself is a pretty robust one, and VVS Laxman has been doing a 126 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,160 fantastic job there since he took over from Dravid. 127 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,520 So I don't think there's been anything lacking in the India AA 128 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,920 or NCA system per SE. And I don't know if there's ever 129 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,880 going to be a natural time or a right time for Dravid to move 130 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,200 from the NCA and India AA setups to the Indian team. 131 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,640 It just happened that there was a vacancy and he was an ideally 132 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,400 suited candidate for the job at the time. 133 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,240 So VVS Lakshman is one of the names in the frame to take over 134 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,400 from Dravid as well. For one, how do you view his 135 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,760 chances? And you know, what do we really 136 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,200 know of him as a coach? Because we know of him more as a 137 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,360 player but less of him as a coach. 138 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,200 I think if he wanted the job, he could have it as soon as 139 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,120 Dravid's tenure finished. I think there's enough backing 140 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,640 for him within the playing ecosystem, within the BCCI, 141 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,240 within all the people that matter in taking. 142 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,080 The decision of who the next coach will be, whether Lakshman 143 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,280 will want to take on that job or not is a completely different 144 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,040 thing. He's someone who's a master 145 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,160 technician as a batsman, this we know. 146 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,720 I have had several conversations and interviews with him about 147 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,800 the art of batting itself and he can explain it to you absolutely 148 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,600 crisply, clearly in simple terms, there's no doubt that as 149 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,120 a technical coach he would do a fantastic job with any young 150 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,160 cricketer. And it's not just about batting. 151 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,560 He understands the game. He's well liked. 152 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,880 He's had a broad and diverse body of work and experience in 153 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,200 both domestic cricket and international cricket. 154 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:40,440 So he it's not that he can only work with batsmen. 155 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,120 I think technically he could be a fantastic coach. 156 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,560 Tactically, how much he would want to get involved. 157 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,560 Now, this is something that only Lakshman can answer, because 158 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:52,360 when you're coaching at the Indian level, you have to work 159 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,280 very closely with a captain. Now, if you have an excellent 160 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,640 rapper with a captain, if it's someone who you've worked with 161 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,040 and someone who is on the same wavelength as you and on the 162 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,760 same page as you, then I think it's something that Lakshman 163 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,400 could do very well. But would he want to get put 164 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,880 himself in a situation where perhaps he's faced with a 165 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,080 captain who doesn't agree with what he wants to do with the 166 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,800 team? Perhaps he's faced with a 167 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,360 captain who wants to take things in a different direction from 168 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,240 what he believes is best. Now, is this a position Lakshman 169 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,400 wants to put himself in? I'm not convinced about that 170 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:31,600 because Lakshman is literally one of the nicest guys you can 171 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,760 meet in cricket. He's not someone who goes 172 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,240 looking for confrontation. And with the Indian job, the 173 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,200 Indian national coaching job comes, Confrontation comes, 174 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,120 controversy comes, finger pointing comes, blame. 175 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,400 Does Lakshman want to take all that on? 176 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,880 I'm not so sure about that. And it also is about the fact 177 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:55,040 that we don't really have a sense of who the future Indian 178 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,760 captain is in many ways, right. We we are in a state of flux, 179 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,200 even as far as the sort of leadership of the team goes. 180 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,760 Does that also make it harder in terms of picking a coach? 181 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,600 I'm not so sure you know that is such a critical role in picking 182 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,000 a coach now because you're always going to have a bit of 183 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,760 uncertainty around who your next captain is. 184 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,640 You might have a succession plan, but it doesn't always pan 185 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,440 out exactly how you imagine it. I mean, Shubman Gill is 1 186 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,840 obvious candidate to be an all format captain. 187 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,800 Jasprit Bumrah is another one. But as a fast bowler with his 188 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,320 workload and the kind of management that goes around his 189 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,400 play, he's not likely to be a long term prospect. 190 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,240 Rishabh Pant is another one who's thought of very highly in 191 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,560 all circles and is an all format player. 192 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,600 So I think the obvious candidates for long term Indian 193 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,240 captaincy would be Shubman Gill and Rishabh Pant And and these 194 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,840 are guys who've come through the system, who worked with many of 195 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,840 these coaches, worked with different coaches in the IPL, 196 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,200 been in different dressing rooms. 197 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,400 So I think any coach that steps in will be able to form a 198 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,080 partnership, a working partnership of sorts with 199 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,480 whoever the the future Indian captain will be. 200 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:13,800 And in terms of Lakshman, he's also part of that sort of golden 201 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,600 generation of Indian cricket after that. 202 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,560 Is there a sort of line that exists in terms of the Indian 203 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:25,080 cricketers, former cricketers, who would fit into this bill? 204 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,640 Well, from a coaching perspective and a mentorship 205 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,080 perspective, you've seen many people do well in the IPL. 206 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,320 Gautam Gambhir is a classic example. 207 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,400 He seems to succeed with all the teams he works with. 208 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,040 He's known to be a very passionate character, like a 209 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,080 permanent angry young man, kind of chap. 210 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:47,920 But in terms of cricketing acumen, in terms of decision 211 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,560 making, in terms of getting the best out of the players, he 212 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:55,760 seems to be able to do the job. The players of that golden 213 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,600 generation, as you call it, have a kind of stature that perhaps 214 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,440 some others don't have, but you look at some others. 215 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,560 Virender Sehwag has expressed interest in coaching. 216 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,400 He doesn't have a track record. We have no idea what kind of 217 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,280 coach or man manager he might be. 218 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,680 Ashish Nehra has been very successful in his coaching roles 219 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:18,880 at various levels and if you go one step below, there have been 220 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,200 plenty of others who are not of the same stature but who have 221 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,880 had tremendous success in cricket, who've also done well 222 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,000 as coaches. Now, the Indian national 223 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,240 coaching job obviously has been one in the past where you needed 224 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,520 a player of extremely high stature. 225 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,840 You've not had an Indian coach in recent times who's not had 226 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,000 that profile as a player himself. 227 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,720 So I think that makes it a little bit trickier. 228 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:52,040 We also have reports of the BCCI approaching Chennai Super Kings 229 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,520 Stephen Fleming to also potentially take charge again 230 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,360 with him. What do we know of him as a 231 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,640 coach that you know would result in the BCCI even approaching 232 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,040 him? Well, Fleming's approach has 233 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,800 largely been one of working in the background and supporting 234 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,480 his captain and the team, especially with Chennai Super 235 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,040 Kings, and that's an obvious one. 236 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,680 It's a no brainer because Dhoni's been captain of that 237 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:20,080 side for so long. So it's always been Dhoni's 238 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,160 team, and Fleming has been the kind of coach who works in the 239 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,120 background, sets up the right environment, makes sure players 240 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,800 have the best opportunities in terms of practice, in terms of 241 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,760 preparation, in terms of, you know, all the setup that happens 242 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,680 before a game or a series and then hands over the team, in a 243 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:40,880 manner of speaking, to the captain for him to run it, 244 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,640 Fleming's not the kind of person who's likely to get involved in 245 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,880 tactics. He's not likely to send messages 246 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,480 halfway through a game to the captain on the field or to 247 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,000 batsmen during a partnership. He's he's much more a person who 248 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,840 lays the foundation, sets things up and then lets the captain run 249 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,120 with it. And is that something that we'd 250 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,880 even want in the as an Indian coach? 251 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,640 Because wouldn't we want someone who's at least visibly more 252 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,800 present in the sense of do we want a person who's always seems 253 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,360 to be doing something, unlike somebody who just does the work 254 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,600 behind the scenes? Well, I think if any foreign 255 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,280 coach comes in, he will have to be someone who works largely in 256 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:25,920 the background and behind the scenes. 257 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,200 We saw what happened with Greg Chappell when he was perhaps the 258 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,040 most outspoken and strident Indian coach. 259 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,760 Indians in general don't tend to accept instruction or criticism 260 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,080 from foreigners very well, even if they are hired to do exactly 261 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,400 that job. So I think if a foreign coach 262 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,440 came in, he would have to be someone who worked in the 263 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,320 background, just as John Wright did with tremendous success as 264 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,480 Gary Kirsten did as well. You barely saw Gary Kirsten 265 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,240 during his tenure as coach. And India was #1 in all formats. 266 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,440 India won the 50 over World Cup, but it was always Ms. Dhoni and 267 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,440 his team. It was not Gary Kirsten's team. 268 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,280 So I think if a foreign coach came in, he would have to be 269 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,680 necessarily someone who worked in the background and let the 270 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,880 captain take the credit for all the success that happens. 271 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,800 Also, would have hiring someone like Fleming indicate that T20 272 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,960 is the sort of primary format in many ways and acknowledges that 273 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,080 that's, well, the future of the sport and we need to have a 274 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,840 coach who also works in that format the best? 275 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,240 I don't believe so. I think India is still one of 276 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,120 those countries that is pushing hard for the primacy of Test 277 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,040 cricket. I think Test cricket still 278 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,960 matters a lot, especially with India having reached the World 279 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,800 Test Championship final twice and never having won it. 280 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,200 There's also been a push for perhaps considering venues 281 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,320 outside of England for that final, which would, you know, 282 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,680 make a big difference I think to teams from the subcontinent. 283 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,360 So I don't think the appointment of this coach will be one that 284 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,040 signals, you know, the importance of T20 cricket. 285 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,800 Sure, T20 cricket is on top of everyone's minds at the moment 286 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,760 because this is the T20 World Cup year. 287 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,840 But I think by and large, one day cricket's still thriving in 288 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,680 India, much more so than in many other countries. 289 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,200 The 50 over format still has life in it and Test cricket 290 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,040 might not attract the biggest crowds, but there is following, 291 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,240 there is viewership and for the players it's still pretty much 292 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,360 the most important format there is going around. 293 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,800 So I don't think that's going to change necessarily in the near 294 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,320 future. I don't think that's going to 295 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,600 influence the choice of coach. Why don't we have that sort of 296 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,320 different coaches for different formats? 297 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,400 Because the thinking of T20 seems to be quite different from 298 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,840 what it is for ODIs or even Tests. 299 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,760 Should we perhaps be thinking on the lines of separate coaches, 300 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,760 or does that formula just not work? 301 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,720 There's no reason why it should not work and I think as you 302 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,359 correctly point out, T20 cricket is a slightly different beast. 303 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,680 It's not a 20 over version of the 50 over game anymore. 304 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,359 It's not just an abridged, limited over game, it's played 305 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,200 completely differently. It's still bat and ball and all 306 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,599 of that, but it's a completely different mindset. 307 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:18,319 It's a completely different approach. 308 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,599 It calls for a completely different mental set of skills 309 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:26,400 from players. It calls for a different outlook 310 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,680 on how to approach batting and bowling, and there's no reason 311 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,120 why it shouldn't call for a different outlook in terms of 312 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,360 coaching. I think there is definitely a 313 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:39,800 case to be made to treat 2020 cricket as different from the 314 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,440 other two formats. I think having one coach for the 315 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,680 Test and ODI team still works perfectly fine, but there is no 316 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:52,520 obvious reason not to bring in a different mindset, fresh set of 317 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,240 eyes and ears for the T20 format. 318 00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,520 Do foreign coaches perhaps do better with Indian teams just 319 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:04,640 because they're a little more objective and less subject to 320 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,640 all the madness that cricket brings with it in India? 321 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,040 Well, there is an advantage to a foreign coach in that they can 322 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,720 bring with them a natural detachment from certain aspects 323 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,840 of Indian cricket. The pressures on them are going 324 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,560 to be a little less, well, maybe not less. 325 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,520 They're going to be different kinds of pressures. 326 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,920 If you're a former Indian cricketer and you're in the 327 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,360 Indian setup, then you already know a lot of the stakeholders 328 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,440 in the game and you're bound to hear their opinions, whether you 329 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,240 take it on board, whether you listen to it, how you implement 330 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,200 things. It might be more difficult to be 331 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,960 completely independent as a former Indian cricketer. 332 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,880 But having said that, being a former Indian cricketer also 333 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,400 means you've come from the same system. 334 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,400 You understand how it works, You understand what the pitfalls 335 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,440 are. So I'm not so sure it's as much 336 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,520 about whether it's a foreigner or an Indian, but about the 337 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,200 individual in question. I think if the setup can find 338 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,760 the right person with the right kind of approach. 339 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,720 A bit of open mindedness, a bit of willingness to take 340 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,400 criticism, willingness to take a backward step when things are 341 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,800 not really going your way and again take a backward step when 342 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,880 things are going your way. Because the players do really 343 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,600 have all the power in the sport in India. 344 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,320 So when there is glory, it will go to the players. 345 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,200 I think someone who understands this kind of mindset will do 346 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,640 well as a coach in the Indian setup. 347 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,680 And in the end, it will be the BCCI that makes the final call. 348 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,200 And usually we tend to have a pretty good sense of who it's 349 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,520 going to be just before the finalization is done. 350 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,040 But what will a potential candidate also have to deal with 351 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,120 when he has to deal with the sport's most powerful board? 352 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,400 So when dealing with the richest or most powerful cricket board 353 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,080 in this instance or in another situation, an organization, a 354 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,840 company, a country, an individual, there's always going 355 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,560 to be an imbalance of power. Whichever person this potential 356 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,080 coach is, however great a cricketer he might have been, 357 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,120 whatever his track record might be as coach, he's still not 358 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,000 going to be anywhere near as powerful as the people who run 359 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,520 the cricket board in India. And he anyone coming into the 360 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,560 job has got to know that the flip side of this is once that 361 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,040 person gets the job, he can be assured that he will have the 362 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,240 backing of the most powerful cricket board in the business. 363 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,720 He will have access to the best possible resources, 364 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,280 infrastructure, best possible personnel, apart from perhaps an 365 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,000 extremely overcrowded schedule because there's so much demand 366 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,280 on Indian cricketers to be playing all the time. 367 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,240 Apart from that, the coach will have pretty much a free hand in 368 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:57,600 setting the agenda of what he needs to do for to give the team 369 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,120 the best chance of succeeding. So I think yes, it's difficult 370 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,360 dealing with the most powerful board in the world, but it also 371 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:11,360 comes with a lot of benefits. Today's episode was produced by 372 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,880 Jayaraj Singh and Sahil Gupta. For a daily spotlight on people, 373 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,680 ideas, and stories that matter, subscribe to us. 374 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,520 We're available on TOI Plus, Spotify, Apple, Google Podcasts, 375 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,520 and all other platforms of your choice. 376 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,680 For any new steps, e-mail us at TOI Podcast at Timesinternet dot 377 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,000 in.