1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,640 From India's largest newsroom, I'm Arun George, and this is the 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:16,200 Times of India podcast. The video on Instagram starts. 3 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:17,960 Like so many others, the caption. 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,480 Of, the video says. One year of fatherhood, A 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,680 father, mother and a child are together, dressed in traditional 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,800 Indian clothes, walking away from the camera on a path in a 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,200 park. The hit. 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Song from the Hindi film Lapata Ladies plays in the background. 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:32,880 It's the ideal family. Video. 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,880 The kind. Thousands post every year. 11 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,000 And then there's a transition. Now the family is walking. 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,800 Towards you except. The father is now in a shiny 13 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,240 saree, has on a white wig and sunglasses that have a rainbow 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,960 between the lenses. Our guest on today's episode is 15 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,440 someone who wears many wigs and sarees. 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,320 My name is Patrudi Chidanda Shastri. 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,200 I'm a drag artist from Hyderabad. 18 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,640 I identify as a trans, non binary bisexual person and I've 19 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:00,320 been doing drag for the past five years. 20 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,239 In today's episode. My colleague Labanya Myitra is 21 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:06,680 in conversation with Patrone. About embracing the 22 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,040 unconventional choices of. Being a drag queen and a parent. 23 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,720 Patrone's preferred. Pronouns are the end them. 24 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,080 In today's episode, Petroni talks with. 25 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,280 Labanya about being a corporate employee by day. 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,720 And embracing the. Superpower of a drag queen by 27 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,040 night. They talk about. 28 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,760 The joy of being a parent and the perils of revealing you're a 29 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,800 parent on social media when you're a drag queen. 30 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,960 They also. Talk about finding love and 31 00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:31,160 picking one's battles. Labanya started by asking. 32 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,400 About the. Social media posts that feature 33 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,160 on Petroni's fields so. I was looking through your 34 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,200 Instagram and I saw some recent posts that you've shared with 35 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,240 your son and your wife. So I want to understand what 36 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:49,000 sort of been the response to these posts that you shared that 37 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,760 document your parenthood? This was something which was not 38 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,280 very expected. We never planned for it. 39 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,840 Having said that, what we understood is like, OK, this 40 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,720 would be a part of my life sometime, even when in order to 41 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,240 kind of express, you know, out in social media, it was a little 42 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,080 bit concerning as well as a little bit worrying situation 43 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,120 for me to start with. It's worrying because Patroni is 44 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,840 non binary and a parent. That's a combination we're not 45 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,320 used to seeing in India or being flaunted. 46 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,440 In fact, India's surrogacy laws prevent same sex couples or live 47 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,360 in partners from availing of surrogacy. 48 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,800 India's adoption laws are also skewed against same sex couples 49 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,400 adopting a child since they cannot get married. 50 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,360 Patroni says they've seen a spike in online hate towards 51 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,400 drag performers and perhaps all non binary people in recent 52 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,640 times. That, combined with worries over 53 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:40,560 their wife and child's privacy, cause them to pause before 54 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:42,400 initially sharing photos of the family. 55 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:45,160 But Patroni says one thing they're not used to doing 56 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,360 anymore is hiding. So I thought, you know, there's 57 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:49,400 something which I would celebrate. 58 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,280 I don't want to kind of get into the terms with what society 59 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,480 might expect. So the first few months I 60 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,320 started posting where I was not revealing the face of my child. 61 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,600 And apart from that, also a little bit of a safety concern 62 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,280 for my child as well As for my partner. 63 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,920 And after that, I decided I had a conversation with my partner 64 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:10,080 and then we realized, OK, this might be a time where we can 65 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,880 kind of, you know, expose the child's face. 66 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,920 So my first video, which was there was with my partner and my 67 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:22,640 child, which I did just two days after my 31st birthday. 68 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,560 And I thought, like, you know, this is something which I want 69 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,480 to kind of tell for a long time that, you know, being a Coeur 70 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,560 person, you can also be a wonderful parent. 71 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,120 People who are queer parents need to be getting the same kind 72 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,720 of respect which we expect from the society for any other 73 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,840 parent. And your fatherhood or 74 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,040 motherhood doesn't usually have a gender. 75 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,880 Patroni says they've been receiving a lot of support from 76 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,120 fellow drag Queens and members of the LGBTQ plus community, but 77 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,280 like they said, there's no shortage of commentary targeting 78 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,520 their family. You know, I'm getting totally 79 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,600 trolled as well for standing up and, you know, presenting my 80 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,520 parenthood because people still think that, you know, a trans 81 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,600 person or a non binding person or a drag queen should not be, 82 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,880 you know, being a father. Because being if you are a queer 83 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,640 person and being a father, you would turn your child to be 84 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,360 queer. I'm concentrating on the 85 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,640 positives because those would definitely help me be a better 86 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,959 person. Given there's no shortage of 87 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:22,600 opposition even to the use of preferred gender pronouns in 88 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,600 India, Patroni says they're often accused of perpetrating a 89 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,120 Western idea that will only confuse their child. 90 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,280 Patroni says a lot of the hate now centres are on the beliefs 91 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,560 that the ideas of drank Queens, transsexuals or non binary 92 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,320 people are western concepts. These say it's also driven by 93 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,600 the fact that people just can't stomach the idea that a non 94 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,760 binary person can be a parent. People are not empathetic 95 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,560 towards the idea of okay, a person having a child, but they 96 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,720 are seeing it as, you know, a queer person, which is a Western 97 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,200 import having a child. So they see that, you know, 98 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,160 somewhere or the other line, because I'm a queer person, 99 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,560 because I might be somebody who's imported from the West. 100 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,160 I'm trying to convert my child who who should be Indian, but 101 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,160 I'm trying to convert it into some Western outlet. 102 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,160 This aspect of, you know, ignorance is something which is 103 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,720 basically the trigger point. And sometimes we just copy paste 104 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,800 from what exactly is happening around the world. 105 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,920 So right now there's a lot of conversations about, you know, 106 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,960 trans exclusion, There's a lot of hate towards drag Queens. 107 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,960 This is a time which is basically trying to ignite 108 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,800 people towards, you know, individuals like me in this 109 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,240 country and I somewhere on the other line. 110 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,880 Hence we see a lot of hate. Like Patroni said earlier, they 111 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,240 don't do hiding very well, but they say they recognize the need 112 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,560 to shield their family from a lot of the hate that they 113 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,400 receive. Patroni says they want to stand 114 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,400 out as a non binary parent for others in society. 115 00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:53,080 I don't usually try to bother. I try to maintain at least a 116 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,640 sanity within my own house. Basically, I never discuss 117 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,920 whatever is happening on the social media with my partner 118 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:02,880 because at least one person should not take that burden of 119 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,040 what the society says. I'm trying to kind of be as more 120 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:08,760 visible. If somebody's hating me, I would 121 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,320 be ensuring that I would be more visible as a parent across, you 122 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,160 know, I would try to create more spaces which would, you know, 123 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,880 help other parents who are kind of coming up in this society. 124 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,680 So I I show my anger by being more, doing more of what I do. 125 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,280 So I think that is what I'm trying to do. 126 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,800 Patroni says performing in drag isn't new to India. 127 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,760 Men have been dressing to play women in dance performances and 128 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,440 plays for centuries. But being a drag queen is 129 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,880 something different. Patroni says 1 common 130 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,880 misconception is that those in drag are transsexual. 131 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,600 Another is that it's just a performance form. 132 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,680 Patroni, who has trained in multiple Indian dance forms for 133 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,320 years, says drag performances always have a message. 134 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,440 Drag is sexual. The entire idea of drag being 135 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,760 sexual was to kind of enrich the idea that, you know, we should 136 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,520 not be hiding from the idea of sex. 137 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,200 Not all drag artists are sexual or they, they try to create 138 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,480 their art in that way. They might be people who are 139 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,480 using drag as an educator, you know, for education purposes, or 140 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,640 somebody who just try to drag in a more subtle way or in their 141 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,320 own form. So it's it's all depends on what 142 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,680 the drag artists would like to present and seeing every drag 143 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,120 artist with the same lens or seeing every drag venue with the 144 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,080 same lens is something which is not correct. 145 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,600 Petroni stumbled into drag a bit by accident. 146 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,280 They'd seen drag pins in a Pride March in another city, and when 147 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,560 someone pointed out that Hyderabad didn't have any drag 148 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,600 pins, Petroni stepped up. They say they had a reputation 149 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,240 of being a dancer and a loudmouth. 150 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,360 Both of which they say. Help in being a drag queen? 151 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,120 Patroni says what started as a one off gradually became a much 152 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,520 larger project. They evolved their own sense of 153 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,880 style that involved Indian garments like silk saris instead 154 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,240 of the dresses that are used by performers in the West. 155 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,920 This interview was done in what Patroni calls their warehouse in 156 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,680 Hyderabad that is filled with saris, wigs and other 157 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,280 accessories. Patooni says they'd come out as 158 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,280 non binary and bisexual to their parents years ago. 159 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,640 It was a few years after becoming a drag performer that 160 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,160 their partner first approached them. 161 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,160 It was two years since I started doing drag is when I met my 162 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,440 partner on Instagram. So they were the one who was 163 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,840 basically stalking me and then, you know, I connected with them 164 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,080 and then I met in a family function again. 165 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,240 So that's the time when they asked me like, OK, what are you 166 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:29,040 doing? What is this? 167 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,760 I know that you're a classical dancer, but what is this wigs 168 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,039 and all that thing? So I, I explained that see, I, 169 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:37,200 I, I do classical dance, but right now I'm pursuing something 170 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,520 which is called as drag, where it's a gender performance. 171 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:42,559 So we had a long conversation about drag. 172 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,840 So since then she started following me. 173 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,040 She started looking into my work on Instagram, you know, seeing 174 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,440 things and etcetera. And we started chatting or 175 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:55,040 talking with each other as and one fine time I realized, OK, 176 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,200 this is something which I'm to break the ice. 177 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,040 So I went to her and I said that see, I'm a bisexual person. 178 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,240 She sent me a Wikipedia link saying that OK, by what is 179 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,840 bisexuality? And she asked me, is this you? 180 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,840 I said like, yes. And then she is like, OK. 181 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,720 And then after five to six hours, she calls me. 182 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,840 And she said, like, you know, oh, do you have tea? 183 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,000 So I tried to instate the entire conversation about sexuality and 184 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,480 gender to her for the next one week. 185 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,080 And after that, she was fed up. And she said, you know, I do 186 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,320 understand what you're trying to say, but I don't have any 187 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,280 problem with what you're trying to do with your art or with your 188 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,440 sexuality, just that if you want to be with me, you need to kind 189 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,280 of give me that assurance. If you are, if you feel like 190 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,720 nobody's forcing you to be with me. 191 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,640 And if you feel that, OK, this is a relationship which you need 192 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,760 to invest. And if you love me, I think that 193 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,480 is the more thing which I would concern. 194 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,840 And that's how she accepted me. We got married, it's been three 195 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:54,480 years, and she's always kind of supporting me on all the levels. 196 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,440 Patooni credits their partner for also dealing with the only 197 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,920 person in their family who had a problem with their drag 198 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,640 performances. My sibling had a little bit of a 199 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,000 situation even after my marriage. 200 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,760 So she got to see me in, in drag in an interview, and then she 201 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,400 started creating a lot of hassles. 202 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,960 But after that, I, you know, my, my partner was the one who went 203 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,440 to court and said, OK, I'm married to this person. 204 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,160 I know better than, you know, like I, I, I'm comfortable. 205 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,160 Why are you not comfortable? He's just your brother, you 206 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:25,920 know, so you should just go and support. 207 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,160 So I think that conversation has resolved the the only conflict 208 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,360 which I had in my immediate family as well. 209 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,720 But what are some of the challenges that you faced being 210 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,960 a married couple where one of you does drag? 211 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,440 You know, one of the challenges, like people don't understand, 212 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,840 I'm also a trans non binary person and in, in this country, 213 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,360 if I'm trying to make it legal, like if I'm trying to make it on 214 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,560 paper, there's a chance of my partner or my child not getting 215 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:59,120 my insurance or any kind of PF or anything. 216 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,560 Because as of now, the, the idea of humans is something which is 217 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:06,400 still not, you know, validated. So I think that is one of the 218 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,200 biggest challenge which I see, you know, I am comfortable in, 219 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,800 in not having a leisure legal laws it as a social transition 220 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,760 because I have dragged. But let's imagine about people 221 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,920 who are not having that option for somebody who wants to kind 222 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,160 of socially and legally transition, it makes it even 223 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,120 more difficult for couples like that to exist. 224 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,240 So I think that is one of the challenge. 225 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,880 They try to kind of, you know, ask some unnecessary questions 226 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,600 on how what do you do on your bed, all that kind of things, 227 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,200 which is somewhere on the other line not asked to any 228 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,480 heterosexual couple. You know, when I say that I'm a 229 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,760 bisexual, people are so who, where is your male partner? 230 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,360 So the entire idea of proving your bisexuality is something 231 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,920 which is still there in this this society. 232 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,640 And one doesn't have to prove that you know, you, you're 233 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,440 bisexual once you're always bisexual. 234 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,240 Like even if I'm married, what people assume that if I'm 235 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,800 married, I might be in an open relationship. 236 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,480 I'm not. I'm still in a monogamous 237 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,160 relationship, but my sexuality works in its own way. 238 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,600 Petroni says the sexuality doesn't come in the way of a 239 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,280 monogamous relationship, and it's something they're very 240 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,800 clear about. They say it helps that they have 241 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,240 a supportive work environment where they're treated as a 242 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,280 professional and not discriminated against because of 243 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,320 their work as a drag queen. I work as a product specialist 244 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,200 in a software company. Software is one thing which 245 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,360 could afford my drag passion as well. 246 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,200 You know, I work from 9:00 to 6:00 on our regular shifts and 247 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,400 the companies based in Hyderabad, they kind of go there 248 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,040 or, you know, work as well as come back and they're aware 249 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,720 about my sexuality in general as well. 250 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,880 So they're also very supportive of my, my, my work, my drag. 251 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,960 So I think I'm lucky that I have Co workers as well as the 252 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,000 company which is which is acknowledging my sexuality and 253 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,440 gender and practice and you know, kind of creating space. 254 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,160 But despite the public posts on social media, Patroni says they 255 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,320 don't always publicise the fact that they are a drag queen and 256 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,960 that they have a family. But drag, I think I sometimes 257 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,000 have to hide my drag. I choose my battles, to be 258 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,280 honest because I'm a married person, somebody who is having a 259 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,640 dependent as of now. It's really important for me to 260 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,000 take care of the safety of people as well, especially my 261 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,600 child as well as my kid. I can't, you know, show my pride 262 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,520 in places which are not safe. So even if I'm talking in this 263 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,400 particular room with that many things around, it might be a 264 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,160 possibility that my neighbour might not be knowing what 265 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,760 exactly I do. I think those battles are 266 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,040 something which I usually kind of choose. 267 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,640 I don't have to explain, come out to everybody you know 268 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,000 around. So I'm still trying to kind of 269 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,800 hide myself or hide my family time and time again in the 270 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,000 spaces where people might not understand. 271 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,640 Patroni says they view their identity as a drag queen as a 272 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,240 superpower that helps them talk about things they wouldn't do 273 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,480 otherwise, despite all the hate. Online and sometimes even. 274 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,160 Offline, Patroni says they want to make sure that their child 275 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,200 knows, understands and empathizes with others. 276 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,200 Time and time again, what I realized is like drag is 277 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,640 something which is more powerful as a way to kind of make 278 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,320 children basically free of death. 279 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,000 Inbuilt notion. As a father, I can change that. 280 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,760 I still remember I was performing in a public space in 281 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,400 Hyderabad. I was just a drag artist. 282 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,080 So while I was performing, there was a father who actually was 283 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,560 taking his child in front of me. So while he kind of crossed me 284 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,240 in between just close the eyes of the child so that the child 285 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,120 can't see me and then took him away from me. 286 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,320 This policing of, you know, seeing or viewing a gender is 287 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,280 something which actually shows the seeds of hate. 288 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,640 And as a father, I can change that. 289 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,360 I can I can ensure that my child is exposed and understanding a 290 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,840 lot of things about the society and educate themselves and feel 291 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,320 empathetic to people who are not having the same kind of a story 292 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,840 as they might be having. So I think that as a 293 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,200 responsibility is something which is very important and I 294 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,720 seek. As a parent, Patrini says their 295 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,000 worries about their child are no different than any other 296 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,720 parents. The challenges may differ 297 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,360 slightly given they are a drag queen, but Patroni says it's 298 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,080 finally about two parents adjusting to each other and 299 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,080 giving their child the freedom to choose their own path. 300 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:17,080 We can write 100 books about how to be a parent, but it's very 301 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,240 hard to kind of be a parent. You know, we can't follow these 302 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,560 hundred books, to be honest. Like I can tell you one of the 303 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,160 things I'm, I'm a general non binary person and oftentimes I, 304 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,240 I hear talk, listen about, you know, non binary parenting or, 305 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,360 you know, gender neutral parenting, which is the very 306 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,120 buzzword. But the practicality of gender 307 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,360 neutral parenting itself is very, you know, very difficult. 308 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,520 So I think it's really important for us to find that balance of 309 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,120 what, what you can have as a parent and what your decision 310 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,280 towards the child and what are some traditional methods which 311 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,000 are being used time and time again. 312 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,960 I, I just try to understand that, you know, I call my child 313 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,920 with, from the Indian pronouns and sometimes, and sometimes I 314 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:03,520 use the, you know, pronouns which they are born with or sex 315 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,880 with their bond with. I see them as a non, you know, 316 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,920 gender neutral person. My partner sees them as the sex 317 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:09,920 which they are assigned at birth. 318 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,400 So we don't argue about, OK, you should do this, you should do 319 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,040 that. You know, we, we both have our 320 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,760 viewpoints. If we both want to see the child 321 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,600 as flexible as we can. And in this way, what exactly 322 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,520 we're trying to do is like at one point in time, when the 323 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,200 child grows up, when they have their own understanding, they 324 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,240 have choices to pick up, You know, they, they can go in, in, 325 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,360 in the way how their, you know, father is seeing them, or they 326 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,200 can go in the way how they are their mother is seeing. 327 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,360 So the options are something which is very important which we 328 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:40,360 are trying to give. Today's episode was produced by 329 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,920 Jayraj Singh and Sahil Gupta. For a daily spotlight on people, 330 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,960 ideas and stories that matter, subscribe to us where available 331 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,120 on the Times of India website, Spotify, Apple, Amazon or 332 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,200 wherever else you get your podcasts. 333 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,120 For any new. Steps of feedback mail me at 334 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,080 Arun dot George at Timesgroup. Dot com.