From India's largest newsroom, I'm Arun George, and this is the
Times of India podcast. The video on Instagram starts.
Like so many others, the caption.
Of, the video says. One year of fatherhood, A
father, mother and a child are together, dressed in traditional
Indian clothes, walking away from the camera on a path in a
park. The hit.
Song from the Hindi film Lapata Ladies plays in the background.
It's the ideal family. Video.
The kind. Thousands post every year.
And then there's a transition. Now the family is walking.
Towards you except. The father is now in a shiny
saree, has on a white wig and sunglasses that have a rainbow
between the lenses. Our guest on today's episode is
someone who wears many wigs and sarees.
My name is Patrudi Chidanda Shastri.
I'm a drag artist from Hyderabad.
I identify as a trans, non binary bisexual person and I've
been doing drag for the past five years.
In today's episode. My colleague Labanya Myitra is
in conversation with Patrone. About embracing the
unconventional choices of. Being a drag queen and a parent.
Patrone's preferred. Pronouns are the end them.
In today's episode, Petroni talks with.
Labanya about being a corporate employee by day.
And embracing the. Superpower of a drag queen by
night. They talk about.
The joy of being a parent and the perils of revealing you're a
parent on social media when you're a drag queen.
They also. Talk about finding love and
picking one's battles. Labanya started by asking.
About the. Social media posts that feature
on Petroni's fields so. I was looking through your
Instagram and I saw some recent posts that you've shared with
your son and your wife. So I want to understand what
sort of been the response to these posts that you shared that
document your parenthood? This was something which was not
very expected. We never planned for it.
Having said that, what we understood is like, OK, this
would be a part of my life sometime, even when in order to
kind of express, you know, out in social media, it was a little
bit concerning as well as a little bit worrying situation
for me to start with. It's worrying because Patroni is
non binary and a parent. That's a combination we're not
used to seeing in India or being flaunted.
In fact, India's surrogacy laws prevent same sex couples or live
in partners from availing of surrogacy.
India's adoption laws are also skewed against same sex couples
adopting a child since they cannot get married.
Patroni says they've seen a spike in online hate towards
drag performers and perhaps all non binary people in recent
times. That, combined with worries over
their wife and child's privacy, cause them to pause before
initially sharing photos of the family.
But Patroni says one thing they're not used to doing
anymore is hiding. So I thought, you know, there's
something which I would celebrate.
I don't want to kind of get into the terms with what society
might expect. So the first few months I
started posting where I was not revealing the face of my child.
And apart from that, also a little bit of a safety concern
for my child as well As for my partner.
And after that, I decided I had a conversation with my partner
and then we realized, OK, this might be a time where we can
kind of, you know, expose the child's face.
So my first video, which was there was with my partner and my
child, which I did just two days after my 31st birthday.
And I thought, like, you know, this is something which I want
to kind of tell for a long time that, you know, being a Coeur
person, you can also be a wonderful parent.
People who are queer parents need to be getting the same kind
of respect which we expect from the society for any other
parent. And your fatherhood or
motherhood doesn't usually have a gender.
Patroni says they've been receiving a lot of support from
fellow drag Queens and members of the LGBTQ plus community, but
like they said, there's no shortage of commentary targeting
their family. You know, I'm getting totally
trolled as well for standing up and, you know, presenting my
parenthood because people still think that, you know, a trans
person or a non binding person or a drag queen should not be,
you know, being a father. Because being if you are a queer
person and being a father, you would turn your child to be
queer. I'm concentrating on the
positives because those would definitely help me be a better
person. Given there's no shortage of
opposition even to the use of preferred gender pronouns in
India, Patroni says they're often accused of perpetrating a
Western idea that will only confuse their child.
Patroni says a lot of the hate now centres are on the beliefs
that the ideas of drank Queens, transsexuals or non binary
people are western concepts. These say it's also driven by
the fact that people just can't stomach the idea that a non
binary person can be a parent. People are not empathetic
towards the idea of okay, a person having a child, but they
are seeing it as, you know, a queer person, which is a Western
import having a child. So they see that, you know,
somewhere or the other line, because I'm a queer person,
because I might be somebody who's imported from the West.
I'm trying to convert my child who who should be Indian, but
I'm trying to convert it into some Western outlet.
This aspect of, you know, ignorance is something which is
basically the trigger point. And sometimes we just copy paste
from what exactly is happening around the world.
So right now there's a lot of conversations about, you know,
trans exclusion, There's a lot of hate towards drag Queens.
This is a time which is basically trying to ignite
people towards, you know, individuals like me in this
country and I somewhere on the other line.
Hence we see a lot of hate. Like Patroni said earlier, they
don't do hiding very well, but they say they recognize the need
to shield their family from a lot of the hate that they
receive. Patroni says they want to stand
out as a non binary parent for others in society.
I don't usually try to bother. I try to maintain at least a
sanity within my own house. Basically, I never discuss
whatever is happening on the social media with my partner
because at least one person should not take that burden of
what the society says. I'm trying to kind of be as more
visible. If somebody's hating me, I would
be ensuring that I would be more visible as a parent across, you
know, I would try to create more spaces which would, you know,
help other parents who are kind of coming up in this society.
So I I show my anger by being more, doing more of what I do.
So I think that is what I'm trying to do.
Patroni says performing in drag isn't new to India.
Men have been dressing to play women in dance performances and
plays for centuries. But being a drag queen is
something different. Patroni says 1 common
misconception is that those in drag are transsexual.
Another is that it's just a performance form.
Patroni, who has trained in multiple Indian dance forms for
years, says drag performances always have a message.
Drag is sexual. The entire idea of drag being
sexual was to kind of enrich the idea that, you know, we should
not be hiding from the idea of sex.
Not all drag artists are sexual or they, they try to create
their art in that way. They might be people who are
using drag as an educator, you know, for education purposes, or
somebody who just try to drag in a more subtle way or in their
own form. So it's it's all depends on what
the drag artists would like to present and seeing every drag
artist with the same lens or seeing every drag venue with the
same lens is something which is not correct.
Petroni stumbled into drag a bit by accident.
They'd seen drag pins in a Pride March in another city, and when
someone pointed out that Hyderabad didn't have any drag
pins, Petroni stepped up. They say they had a reputation
of being a dancer and a loudmouth.
Both of which they say. Help in being a drag queen?
Patroni says what started as a one off gradually became a much
larger project. They evolved their own sense of
style that involved Indian garments like silk saris instead
of the dresses that are used by performers in the West.
This interview was done in what Patroni calls their warehouse in
Hyderabad that is filled with saris, wigs and other
accessories. Patooni says they'd come out as
non binary and bisexual to their parents years ago.
It was a few years after becoming a drag performer that
their partner first approached them.
It was two years since I started doing drag is when I met my
partner on Instagram. So they were the one who was
basically stalking me and then, you know, I connected with them
and then I met in a family function again.
So that's the time when they asked me like, OK, what are you
doing? What is this?
I know that you're a classical dancer, but what is this wigs
and all that thing? So I, I explained that see, I,
I, I do classical dance, but right now I'm pursuing something
which is called as drag, where it's a gender performance.
So we had a long conversation about drag.
So since then she started following me.
She started looking into my work on Instagram, you know, seeing
things and etcetera. And we started chatting or
talking with each other as and one fine time I realized, OK,
this is something which I'm to break the ice.
So I went to her and I said that see, I'm a bisexual person.
She sent me a Wikipedia link saying that OK, by what is
bisexuality? And she asked me, is this you?
I said like, yes. And then she is like, OK.
And then after five to six hours, she calls me.
And she said, like, you know, oh, do you have tea?
So I tried to instate the entire conversation about sexuality and
gender to her for the next one week.
And after that, she was fed up. And she said, you know, I do
understand what you're trying to say, but I don't have any
problem with what you're trying to do with your art or with your
sexuality, just that if you want to be with me, you need to kind
of give me that assurance. If you are, if you feel like
nobody's forcing you to be with me.
And if you feel that, OK, this is a relationship which you need
to invest. And if you love me, I think that
is the more thing which I would concern.
And that's how she accepted me. We got married, it's been three
years, and she's always kind of supporting me on all the levels.
Patooni credits their partner for also dealing with the only
person in their family who had a problem with their drag
performances. My sibling had a little bit of a
situation even after my marriage.
So she got to see me in, in drag in an interview, and then she
started creating a lot of hassles.
But after that, I, you know, my, my partner was the one who went
to court and said, OK, I'm married to this person.
I know better than, you know, like I, I, I'm comfortable.
Why are you not comfortable? He's just your brother, you
know, so you should just go and support.
So I think that conversation has resolved the the only conflict
which I had in my immediate family as well.
But what are some of the challenges that you faced being
a married couple where one of you does drag?
You know, one of the challenges, like people don't understand,
I'm also a trans non binary person and in, in this country,
if I'm trying to make it legal, like if I'm trying to make it on
paper, there's a chance of my partner or my child not getting
my insurance or any kind of PF or anything.
Because as of now, the, the idea of humans is something which is
still not, you know, validated. So I think that is one of the
biggest challenge which I see, you know, I am comfortable in,
in not having a leisure legal laws it as a social transition
because I have dragged. But let's imagine about people
who are not having that option for somebody who wants to kind
of socially and legally transition, it makes it even
more difficult for couples like that to exist.
So I think that is one of the challenge.
They try to kind of, you know, ask some unnecessary questions
on how what do you do on your bed, all that kind of things,
which is somewhere on the other line not asked to any
heterosexual couple. You know, when I say that I'm a
bisexual, people are so who, where is your male partner?
So the entire idea of proving your bisexuality is something
which is still there in this this society.
And one doesn't have to prove that you know, you, you're
bisexual once you're always bisexual.
Like even if I'm married, what people assume that if I'm
married, I might be in an open relationship.
I'm not. I'm still in a monogamous
relationship, but my sexuality works in its own way.
Petroni says the sexuality doesn't come in the way of a
monogamous relationship, and it's something they're very
clear about. They say it helps that they have
a supportive work environment where they're treated as a
professional and not discriminated against because of
their work as a drag queen. I work as a product specialist
in a software company. Software is one thing which
could afford my drag passion as well.
You know, I work from 9:00 to 6:00 on our regular shifts and
the companies based in Hyderabad, they kind of go there
or, you know, work as well as come back and they're aware
about my sexuality in general as well.
So they're also very supportive of my, my, my work, my drag.
So I think I'm lucky that I have Co workers as well as the
company which is which is acknowledging my sexuality and
gender and practice and you know, kind of creating space.
But despite the public posts on social media, Patroni says they
don't always publicise the fact that they are a drag queen and
that they have a family. But drag, I think I sometimes
have to hide my drag. I choose my battles, to be
honest because I'm a married person, somebody who is having a
dependent as of now. It's really important for me to
take care of the safety of people as well, especially my
child as well as my kid. I can't, you know, show my pride
in places which are not safe. So even if I'm talking in this
particular room with that many things around, it might be a
possibility that my neighbour might not be knowing what
exactly I do. I think those battles are
something which I usually kind of choose.
I don't have to explain, come out to everybody you know
around. So I'm still trying to kind of
hide myself or hide my family time and time again in the
spaces where people might not understand.
Patroni says they view their identity as a drag queen as a
superpower that helps them talk about things they wouldn't do
otherwise, despite all the hate. Online and sometimes even.
Offline, Patroni says they want to make sure that their child
knows, understands and empathizes with others.
Time and time again, what I realized is like drag is
something which is more powerful as a way to kind of make
children basically free of death.
Inbuilt notion. As a father, I can change that.
I still remember I was performing in a public space in
Hyderabad. I was just a drag artist.
So while I was performing, there was a father who actually was
taking his child in front of me. So while he kind of crossed me
in between just close the eyes of the child so that the child
can't see me and then took him away from me.
This policing of, you know, seeing or viewing a gender is
something which actually shows the seeds of hate.
And as a father, I can change that.
I can I can ensure that my child is exposed and understanding a
lot of things about the society and educate themselves and feel
empathetic to people who are not having the same kind of a story
as they might be having. So I think that as a
responsibility is something which is very important and I
seek. As a parent, Patrini says their
worries about their child are no different than any other
parents. The challenges may differ
slightly given they are a drag queen, but Patroni says it's
finally about two parents adjusting to each other and
giving their child the freedom to choose their own path.
We can write 100 books about how to be a parent, but it's very
hard to kind of be a parent. You know, we can't follow these
hundred books, to be honest. Like I can tell you one of the
things I'm, I'm a general non binary person and oftentimes I,
I hear talk, listen about, you know, non binary parenting or,
you know, gender neutral parenting, which is the very
buzzword. But the practicality of gender
neutral parenting itself is very, you know, very difficult.
So I think it's really important for us to find that balance of
what, what you can have as a parent and what your decision
towards the child and what are some traditional methods which
are being used time and time again.
I, I just try to understand that, you know, I call my child
with, from the Indian pronouns and sometimes, and sometimes I
use the, you know, pronouns which they are born with or sex
with their bond with. I see them as a non, you know,
gender neutral person. My partner sees them as the sex
which they are assigned at birth.
So we don't argue about, OK, you should do this, you should do
that. You know, we, we both have our
viewpoints. If we both want to see the child
as flexible as we can. And in this way, what exactly
we're trying to do is like at one point in time, when the
child grows up, when they have their own understanding, they
have choices to pick up, You know, they, they can go in, in,
in the way how their, you know, father is seeing them, or they
can go in the way how they are their mother is seeing.
So the options are something which is very important which we
are trying to give. Today's episode was produced by
Jayraj Singh and Sahil Gupta. For a daily spotlight on people,
ideas and stories that matter, subscribe to us where available
on the Times of India website, Spotify, Apple, Amazon or
wherever else you get your podcasts.
For any new. Steps of feedback mail me at
Arun dot George at Timesgroup. Dot com.