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From India's largest newsroom, 
I'm Arun George and this is the 

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Times of India podcast. 
That's a clip from the 1976 hit 

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Hindi film Chhoti Si Baat 
directed by Basu Chatterjee. 

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Now you can't see it here, but 
if you watch the film which is 

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available on YouTube and other 
platforms, the portion you just 

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heard features a shot in which 
you can see two versions of the 

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non air conditioned double 
Decker buses in Mumbai. 

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The last of the non air 
conditioned double Decker buses 

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ran its last passenger route in 
the city on Friday the 15th of 

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September. 
Since the last double Decker 

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journey on Friday, social media 
has been flooded with clips and 

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pictures from Mumbai of the 
buses and people's memories of 

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it. 
By the time it was announced 

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that the bus would be phased 
out, it was already running on 

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very limited routes. 
The double Decker bus existed in

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other Indian cities as well, but
few Indian cities exploited its 

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image like Mumbai. 
And like one of our guests on 

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today's episode explains, there 
are few things as glorious as 

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being on the top level of a 
double Decker bus, and you truly

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felt like you'd achieved 
something if you got the most 

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hallowed of seats on the bus. 
The front seat. 

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It's actually that the front 
seat on the top, that is 

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everybody's dream. 
I mean, you become a child when 

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you go and sit over there and go
to the window, it's like 

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transports you back to another 
times. 

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That is what double Decker is to
me. 

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And every time you see one, 
especially somewhere in, say, 

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South Bombay or something, 
you'll really wish I was there. 

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I grew up in Bangalore, so my 
first memories of double deckers

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were Bangalore double deckers, 
which are quite similar to the 

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ones that were here for me. 
It's also movies, the Bombay VSD

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buses for other cities. 
It was like, I think the best 

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one after what was DTC? 
Because Durvashan used to show 

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DTC buses. 
And Hindi movies and even the 

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movies of the South, like 
anything that was shot in 

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Bombay, just establishing shots 
or romantic shots are always in 

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a double Decker bus. 
In the old days, it was always 

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the couple in the top seat of a 
double Decker bus. 

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That's one of the guests on our 
episode, Gopal. 

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Ms. Gopal is a chronicle of the 
constant change in the city of 

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Mumbai through social media 
handles Mumbai pause on 

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Instagram and Twitter. 
The 2nd guest on our episode is 

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Vidhya Datdate. 
A former journalist and the head

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of a bus commuter group who 
explains why the demise of the 

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double Decker is just the latest
sign of the decline of buses in 

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the city. 
A bit of history about the 

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double Decker bus in Mumbai. 
The first double Decker in the 

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city was a tram that came to the
city that was then called Bombay

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in 1920. 
In 1937, the city had its first 

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double Decker bus. 
On the website of the BESD, 

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which runs the buses in Mumbai, 
you can find photos of this 

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double Decker tram and the first
version of the rather ungainly 

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double Decker bus. 
The first version of the bus 

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looked a lot like a truck with a
high trailer that carried 

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people. 
That design was refined decades 

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later so that the driver's cabin
was made part of the bus and you

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got the version of the bus that 
we now know. 

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The double Decker, while iconic 
in appearance and experience, 

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was never very efficient. 
Had a fuel economy that was 

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worse than the regular bus, and 
it doesn't carry too many people

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more than a regular one. 
In the past two decades, the BST

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converted many of its double 
deckers into top open buses for 

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tourism. 
You could rent it for events as 

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groups. 
And if you were a gangster in a 

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Hindi film, well, it was a place
to party. 

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The old version of the double 
Decker will, for now, be 

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replaced by air conditioned 
electric double Decker buses. 

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The Best says it will have 900 
of these buses by next year. 

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Gopal Ms. who you heard earlier,
explains why there's been this 

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collective morning over the end 
of the double Decker era and 

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also how to best preserve its 
legacy. 

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He also says he really has no 
problem with the new electric 

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buses that are being brought in.
Why do we hold on to this design

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itself? 
Because we know that it's a 

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fundamentally. 
Inefficient design. 

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We know that its fuel 
inefficient. 

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It can go to a lot of parts of 
the city, especially now that 

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Metro is being built across it. 
It has severe limitations as a 

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public transport device. 
Then what explains this sort of 

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hold it has on us because theres
nothing obviously likable about 

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it. 
Yeah, there is no logic to it 

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because it's nostalgia. 
It is that old Bombay. 

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I mean, you're in Mumbai and you
want to hold on to pieces of 

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Bombay. 
And I think there is nothing 

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more to it. 
In fact, I want the really old 

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ones to come back, which had 
that, that truck lighting in the

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front where the cry was. 
Cabin was small. 

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Those look really cute. 
They had that charm, like the 

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Calcutta traps. 
They really look good. 

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But the truth is that with all 
the nostalgia, most of the 

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people who want to ride those 
buses don't take buses. 

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They make a lot of noise. 
I think that is what brought the

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electric buses because the 
nostalgia is there and even that

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kind of London fetish that BST 
has with that rent buses. 

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In fact, I think they chose this
bus design because it has a 

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resemblance to the electric 
buses of double Decker buses of 

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London. 
There's also this sort of plan 

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I've heard of which they want to
have these buses standing in 

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places, the old ones, that is 
the defunct ones, like there's 

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one I think in a BKC complex 
there is one, which is that is 

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an installation. 
Is that like something you want 

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to see, or is the magic loss 
when it's stationary? 

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I actually went there when it 
was inaugurated, but The thing 

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is, it's inside the gated 
community where the richest 

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people in the country who come 
in BMWs and Audi's visit that 

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place. 
But it's a really beautiful 

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piece of art and I think it was 
built because of the nostalgia. 

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I think at that point of time we
felt that there will not be any 

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double deckers in the future. 
But here we are where we have 

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nearly 100 double deckers or 
more probably coming back to the

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streets. 
Bombay is a city. 

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People are quite vocal. 
You have commuter organizations.

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You have train travelers 
organizations. 

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Who actually advocate for public
transport because end of the day

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the city is about public 
transport. 

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It's it's a city that developed 
along railway tracks. 

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The people here relative to 
other cities do love, use, fight

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and do all kinds of things about
public transport, which I think 

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in other cities urban planners 
would be like kind of happy if 

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they had such a big vocal 
community. 

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Not that the planners are 
listening, but at least. 

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These public installations and 
and things about making old 

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buses part of our life I think 
would bring at some level this 

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whole thing about public 
transport debate into the open 

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and not just coastal road and 
all the car related 

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infrastructure that is being 
built. 

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Of course you can't ignore the 
fact that there is a slow 

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decline of investment or in BST.
I mean, people are looking for 

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profits where none exists and 
stuff like that. 

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So I look at it as a positive 
development that we are getting 

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buses. 
I think the problem is that not 

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enough people are using it. 
So then how do you view this 

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sort of demise of the 
traditional version of it? 

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I'm happy with the new electric 
buses. 

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I mean I think it we should 
change with the times. 

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I think Bombay has this London 
and we our buildings are like 

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London. 
We like to think that our cops 

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are like the Scotland Yard and 
we like our buses to be like 

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London buses. 
It'll keep changing. 

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In fact we started with electric
trams and then it became diesel.

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So we are going back to the 
original electric in, in some 

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ways. 
So I'm quite happy with just the

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fact that we have doubled the 
cars, unlike other cities. 

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But then the electric one, 
unlike this one, doesn't have 

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that key thing, which is the 
front seat on top, which is open

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and is the price seat in the 
entire bus. 

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But doesn't that sort of take 
away elements of the double 

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Decker itself? 
Because isn't it about literally

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having the wind in your head? 
Yeah, it was actually the smell 

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of the city and the breeze and 
the sea breeze. 

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In the sense you could smell and
you could actually feel the 

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elements of the city in that 
front seat. 

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It was not just about looking 
out of the window during the 

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monsoon. 
It's an entire different 

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feeling. 
I think that is going to be 

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totally lost, that front seat. 
Luckily the new buses have more 

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glass on the sides. 
So the views are there on 

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there's better views on other 
sites. 

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I'm hopeful that they will 
compensate for this. 

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And if you look at the BST, like
when they introduce those new 

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electric buses, they started 
those Mumbai darshan buses, 

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there's a hit already if you ask
me. 

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The the electric double Decker 
with people who are coming and 

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especially the tourists, and I 
think there will be a whole new 

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generation developing nostalgia 
or electric buses and 100 years 

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from now some they will be 
complaining about that. 

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We owe so much of our lives to 
the BST. 

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That is like the St. in the 
rural areas it's St. buses, 

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state transport buses. 
So what is the real lifeline? 

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The. 
Suburban service is a lifeline, 

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but bus is actually more 
important I would say. 

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Vidhya Dardate is a former 
journalist with The Times of 

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India, an author and the head of
a commuter group called Amchi 

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Mumbai Amchi Best, which loosely
translates to R Mumbai R Best. 

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He says he is not opposed to the
electric bus as such, but admits

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it does take away something from
the experience of riding in a 

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double Decker. 
It is very anesthetic. 

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If you see them with very dull 
dark color, it is very 

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anesthetic. 
Secondly, when you are sitting 

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on the top deck with A/C, I mean
all the fun is lost. 

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That whole breeze you miss, you 
know that is you are a bit 

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nature when you are having 
natural breeze. 

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That is the beauty when the A/C 
completely spoils that. 

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So it is OK in very severe 
summer. 

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Vidyadar Datti says over the 
years they have been campaigning

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to keep the city's bus service 
efficient and commuter friendly.

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The death of the double Decker 
and the morning over it, he 

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says, shows how attached the 
city is to its buses. 

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Everybody has a passion for 
every kind of bus, but the 

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double ticker of course is very 
special. 

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The amount of nostalgia that 
I've witnessed in the last few 

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days testifies and it is such a 
long history. 

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We are also attached to the 
train, suburban train, which is 

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very good, but the bus, the kind
of intimacy it gives you, you 

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can see the surroundings for 
great heritage is somehow being 

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undermined from the highest 
levels. 

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Our authorities say we are 
modeling on London transport, 

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but they have learned nothing 
from it. 

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You see Londons red buses. 
Theyre very proud of them. 

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We must be proud of our bus 
service. 

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That is not happening. 
Our authorities have no sense of

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pride. 
And now theyre only going to 

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dump one bus in the museum in 
Gulala. 

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And all these years that time to
have more buses. 

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But now they've just outlived 
their life. 

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That's not a good thing at all. 
The city's bus agency, the BST, 

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has been struggling for years 
now. 

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Earlier this year, the Times of 
India Summit Sen had reported 

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how the bus service, which was 
once in the green financially, 

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had losses to the tune of 6000 
crore rupees. 

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Even a ₹60,00,00,000 financial 
assistance package from the city

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civic body per month is not 
proving to be enough. 

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The bus service is now hoping to
raise money through subsidies 

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and other revenue generating 
measures. 

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The health of the BST service 
presently mirrors the state of 

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many public bus services across 
the country. 

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Vidya Adar Dhati says that a 
public bus service shouldn't be 

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looking to make profits. 
He says the bigger issue is that

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the state is unwilling to spend 
on the public transport service,

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while it seems to have adequate 
funds for other infrastructure 

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projects that lack the same 
utility. 

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It is actually a political 
thing. 

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It is not a matter of finance 
and economics. 

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So the main issue, as all the 
experts are pointed out, it is 

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political. 
You have the political bill, 

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then you can do. 
You see, for the metro, they 

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00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,000
have borrowed such almost a lack
of crores they are going to 

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00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,600
spend and a few thousand crore 
they cannot spend on a bus 

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system. 
Theyre just taking people for a 

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ride. 
Theyre not telling the truth. 

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The bus has a real flexibility, 
can take you from any point to 

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any point, whereas the metro 
can't do that because they have 

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to keep alive the metro. 
So they will try to divert 

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passengers from the bus to the 
metro, which will be disastrous.

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First of all, I mean it is much 
more costly and you see it is 

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00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:32,080
not at all flexible. 
Over the past decade, the BESD 

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00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,080
has been leasing buses from bus 
makers and most of its over 3000

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00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,480
bus fleet is leased. 
This means the buses aren't 

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00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:44,240
owned or maintained by the BESD.
The drivers of the buses also 

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00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,120
are not employees of the bus 
service. 

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00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,800
In August, a majority of these 
drivers truck work seeking more 

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00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,000
pay and other employee benefits.
It brought the city's bus 

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00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,000
network to a halt till the state
promised to meet their demands. 

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00:13:56,340 --> 00:13:59,500
Vidyadhar date says globally the
move has been to make public 

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00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:03,300
transport more affordable and 
accessible, while India and the 

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00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:06,780
administrators of the BESD seem 
intent on moving in the opposite

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direction. 
He says the promise of the 

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00:14:08,820 --> 00:14:12,180
contract buses has also proven 
to be a hollow one so far. 

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00:14:12,780 --> 00:14:15,980
Everywhere, bus travel has to be
subsidized, can never make a 

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00:14:16,020 --> 00:14:18,740
profit. 
I mean, it's so obvious and so 

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00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:22,680
many countries have started. 
Even free bus service, we are 

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00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,440
continuing the model of America 
of motorization and building 

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00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:33,680
more flyovers and highways and 
expressways, so they've got 

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00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,920
enough money for the postal road
and not for the BST. 

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00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,240
I think there is no explanation 
at all. 

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00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,640
This contact system is also 
playing and because it is 

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00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,720
imposed from above, they know it
is not working well and it has 

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00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,340
proved a miserable failure. 
They said it will get more 

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00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:54,420
efficiency, whereas it has 
miserably failed. 

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00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:58,460
Vidyadardate says that the 
phasing out of the double Decker

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00:14:58,460 --> 00:15:01,540
should put the spotlight on the 
health of the BST and on 

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00:15:01,540 --> 00:15:03,860
improving it. 
He hopes that the upcoming metro

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00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:06,260
network will solve some of the 
city's problems. 

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00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:09,700
But till then, he fears the 
average bus commuter in Mumbai 

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00:15:09,940 --> 00:15:11,660
won't be having a very smooth 
journey. 

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00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:14,500
The. 
Main feature is now observed 

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00:15:14,740 --> 00:15:17,330
Bible. 
For common people and because 

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00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:19,930
they are full living is in 
jeopardy. 

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00:15:20,130 --> 00:15:24,250
I see people standing for long 
time waiting for work. 

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00:15:24,250 --> 00:15:26,930
That is the real crisis. 
You see this in Australia. 

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00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:29,890
It is good for us, you know the 
only experience. 

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00:15:30,250 --> 00:15:35,450
I think that it's a very 
momentous time phasing out of 

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00:15:35,490 --> 00:15:38,210
the double Decker. 
The real problem is. 

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00:15:38,730 --> 00:15:43,770
The way they are neglecting the 
BSD and the people deserve much 

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00:15:43,770 --> 00:15:46,890
more fair treatment. 
Common people are being treated 

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00:15:46,890 --> 00:15:50,890
with absolute contempt. 
They are not a ton or sincere 

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00:15:50,890 --> 00:15:54,010
about the bus system. 
They are favoring the metro. 

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00:15:54,130 --> 00:15:57,890
Maybe after some decades Metro 
will pick up, but till then we 

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00:15:57,890 --> 00:16:07,620
will be in a crisis. 
Today's episode was produced by 

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00:16:07,620 --> 00:16:11,540
Jayaraj Singh and Anuja Singh. 
For a daily spotlight on people,

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00:16:11,580 --> 00:16:14,340
ideas and stories that matter, 
subscribe to us. 

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00:16:14,660 --> 00:16:19,700
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