From India's largest newsroom, I'm Arun George and this is the
Times of India podcast. Occasionally, we'll be reaching
back into our archives to pull out an episode that we think is
still particularly relevant. Today's episode is one of them.
Happy listening. Actor and mental health activist
Siddhartha Mallya has just written a remarkably candid book
about his battle with depression and Obsessive Compulsive
Disorder. The 34 year old also talks about
the toll that his parents divorce and his father's
remarriage took on him as a child and his complex and at
times rather difficult relationship with his father
Vijay Mallya, OCD is still not a widely understood affliction.
Siddhartha, who also does an Instagram series on mental
health called Consider This and where he first announced that he
was quitting booze, writes how OCD has affected his life.
Here's a brief passage. When I got to India in 2010, my
fears and compulsions were taken to another level.
At home, I believed I had to go to the prayer room and pray
every day. If I didn't, I would be
punished. But this wasn't all.
I believed I had to be 100% clean to enter the prayer room,
so I would literally wash my hands and feet 20 times.
If on the way to the prayer room, my hand touched something
or if my sleeve brushed against something, I would have to wash
my hands again and change my shirt.
If I touched the fresh piece of clothing with that same dirty
hand, that piece of clothing would now also be dirty and I
would have to find a new piece to wear.
Things were just as bad once I finally went into the pooja
room. I was scared of touching
anything. I was scared of doing anything
because I believed that if I didn't behave perfectly, I would
anger God and be punished. The prayer room experience
caused me massive stress. Then my prayers themselves
became problematic. I believed that if I didn't say
thank you for everything that had happened that day.
I would anger God and I would be punished for not being grateful.
I believed that if I didn't say my prayers with grammatical
perfection, I would be disrespecting God and I would be
punished. I believed that if I didn't feel
the gratitude enough during my prayers, I wasn't grateful
enough and would be punished. This would drive me to say my
prayers again and again to ensure that I had said every
word perfectly. I would go through the entire
day again. To ensure I said thank you for
absolutely everything that had happened, I would say things
over and over again just to make sure I was feeling enough
gratitude because of this. A prayer that should have taken
me a few minutes would end up taking me an hour.
It's. Early morning in Los Angeles
when we record this interview and Siddhartha is still wiping
off the sleep from his eyes as he speaks about his gilded yet
difficult life. In the book, for people who
haven't read the book, you you talk about your battle with
depression. You write very poignantly about
your battle with OCD. You talk about giving up at one
point, and this is of course already public knowledge where
you just gave up alcohol. How did you?
Arrive with this. How the book came about was.
On the one year anniversary of when I stopped drinking, and
that would have been, it's been three years now, so that would
have been 2019, I put up a, you know, a very brief Instagram
story saying, hey everyone, it's been one year since I stopped
drinking. I was never an alcoholic, but
whether I had one drink or I had 10 drinks, I'd get crazy anxiety
the next day. So I decided to stop just
sharing this in case it can inspire anyone else.
And I got thousands of messages from people, people who were
like, Oh my God, especially from India saying.
We feel the same way. We can resonate with you if you
who obviously because of my background coming from from from
an alcohol producing family if you can stop drinking then why
is there no reason why we can't stop?
Like you know, thank you for encouraging us.
And then I was like, I was like, wow, I mean, I know these sorts
of issues aren't really talked about in India.
And I was kind of blown away by just how much people were able
to resonate with just a very open, simple message and.
I thought, well, OK, if I was able to have such an impact by
just being that honest about this, maybe I can continue to
help people by being honest about some of the other things
I've gone through. And that's how they consider
this series was born well. And that's where I thought,
well, maybe the book was the next kind of natural progression
in in in the line. So people who don't know the
side of you, obviously you are Vijay Mallya's son.
You've got a great life. You have, you traveled to the
best places, you're wealthy, you have girlfriends.
And you've in the book, you say that when you came to India is
when you were deeply unhappy. And one point you write in the
book that you're you immediately became a celebrity, even though
there was nothing to celebrate. And you say I was not at peace
in India. Can you talk a little bit about
that period because the image that came was built around you
was of this, you know, the Prince of good time.
I think that was one of the, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I was. I was definitely miserable.
I wasn't aware or in touch with myself enough to really know how
unhappy I was, if that makes sense.
It sounds like a real cliche to say, but most of the time, most
people. Are unaware of what they're
actually going through because they aren't in touch with
themselves and haven't done the self work.
So on paper it looked like I had everything.
I mean I was it was a party's GQ magazine covers this that
newspaper La La La La la. And honestly at the time I
probably thought wow this is this is cool, right?
I mean you're young whatever. But.
Looking back, I can see that a lot of it was just superficially
filling what was going on underneath, which was, which was
a deep pain. But then again, I I I don't
blame myself because you know, how many people at the age of 22
have that self-awareness anyway? So I don't think I was doing
anything out of the ordinary. Can you talk about what you were
going through? It was a big cultural change for
me. Obviously I I'd obviously I
wasn't unfamiliar with India. I'd spent so much time there in
holidays as a kid. But I think it's very different
you know visiting a place and then actually settling down to
live there. And I I I really guess I felt
like I had a lot of and I and again I I do have to say for
your listeners, I know that what I'm saying.
A lot of it might pertain specifically to my situation,
but of course, that's the only situation I have I can talk
about. So maybe the listeners might not
resonate with the situation, but they might resonate with the
actual feelings. But I felt very kind of
claustrophobic and very sort of like controlled, you know, like
everything I was doing there was a microscope.
Everywhere I went there was someone there, Like there was.
I'd gone from living on my own in the UK to living now in a
house that had a lot of domestic help right, which is a prevalent
thing in India anyway. And I felt like I was kind of
maybe put in a cage and rebelled against that cage without even
realizing what I was rebelling against.
Some might say it was a gilded cage and and they would swap
places with you happily. In fact, you mentioned one of
your friends was Would have been very happy to do that.
Look, I think he says that on paper.
I mean, let's see the reality of it, because it's all about what
you what you value. And I think a lot of the time
though, we can have an idea of what something is for the way
that it's portrayed until you have it.
And then it's like, oh, wow. Like, you know, like I'm not
making this comparison to me, but I say it, But I'm going to
say is that you see it with like, you see a lot of like
musicians, a lot of singing. I think.
I feel like this is more prevalent with.
Young singers that it is with, with actors and all.
But you see it like out in the West, right where where a young
singer will be now that now that she's blown up and she's got her
number one hits and she's got 50 million followers and
everything, everything, everything.
And they say in their interviews they're like growing up, all we
wanted was stardom, and now that we have it.
All we want is just to do the music and we don't want any of
the other stuff to come with it. So I think everything is because
you have an idea, don't you? You're like, wow, big celebrity,
big star being this, being money, this, that cars.
Again. The concept of it on paper
sounds amazing, and it's not bad.
Of course it's not, you know, material conflicts.
I think everyone would want that.
But then there are, you've got to take that.
There are also other sides of things that come with all of
this that I don't know if it's. Appreciate it.
And I and I know that I'll probably be a lot of people
listening to this being like I just don't see it and and I can
understand why people might say that as well.
So you were living in this gilded cage.
You were deeply unhappy. You also.
It was also a very clarifying time perhaps for you because it
eventually let you're going to to sort of towards acting.
But also around that time is when you decided to train for
the marathon and and I I remember photos a few from that
time and and you were this slightly chubby person and then
you just decided to it's not easy to just do the marathon and
you did and So what was going on in your head at that time?
First of all, the chubbiness was because I was always a very thin
kid. And then I went to university at
18 and just, you know, went off the rails in terms of, you know,
you eat junk, you drink junk, la, la, la.
And I was like, yeah, I was young, so I bloomed up.
And then for the marathon, I was like, well, I'm going to do it.
I'm. I'm quite impulsive like that.
Like, I like doing things like random things.
Like if you like it, it's kind of like a bucket list without
having a bucket list. And I was like, I'm going to run
a marathon, why not? And I decided to do the.
Mumbai One. And everyone was like, even my
dad was like just run the half marathon, just take it easy, run
the half one and when someone tells me I can't do something,
it's like that. Maybe it's the tourist's blood
in me where I'm like, no, I'm going to do the whole thing,
like don't tell me what I can and can't do.
And you know, most people, I think train for a good like six
months, seven months to run a marathon.
I did it for 9 weeks and I ran it.
And then and then I ran another 1-2 months later in the UK and
then I ran the Mumbai one next year and I did the daily one.
So I actually ran 3 1/2 marathons in the space of 12
months because I think for me it was like I'm just going to do
it. And then I liked doing it and
then I enjoyed it. But today I'm suffering.
My knees are not thanking me for for putting it through that.
The sense that I get is that you know while while you were
unhappy. There was a kind of an
expectation that you would you would kind of join your dad's
business and there were people who were just waiting for you.
Your dad is who caused this larger than life personality and
people expected you perhaps to follow suit and and was this
your way at that time even before you came to terms with
the fact that you're not going to join the business to sort of
break away? It's funny you mentioned this.
You've just got me to think about something which I probably
didn't think of before. It might not have been
necessarily my way to break away, but it was certainly a way
for me to have achieved something on my own that I could
take the credit for myself, right.
You don't have no one else kind of take it away or say, oh, you
only ran the marathon because you're so and so sun.
Well-being. So and so Sun isn't going to
help me run 26 months. So I think that was probably
definitely a part of it. As well as that I wanted
something of my own. So yes, I mean, I guess it it it
might have, yeah, I guess played into the fact of maybe not
breaking away, but definitely of trying to individualize myself
and make myself into my own kind of person.
You have of course a very, and you refer to you have a
complicated relationship with your father and and in the book
you say at one point that you had some some time ago you had a
a kind of a long heart to heart discussion with him where you
kind of told him about what you had felt growing up his his kind
of marrying somebody else, you know having children.
And and you say that you realize that while of course it was very
respectful, it was great, but you realize that your your
father sort of at that time, you realize that he lacked empathy
to understand what you were going through.
Can you talk a little bit about the kind of about your
relationship with your dad? Yeah, I think it's it's one that
you know. First of all, I think when a
parent doesn't live with you right full time, the
relationship probably isn't going to have.
And again I'm generalizing here, I this is what I'm assuming that
if someone's not there full time, that strong rock
foundation that's you know, formed in the early years, the
childhood years isn't there. So I don't know if that's just
me off. That's for a lot of people
who've had absent, you know, parents.
Have been away for various reasons but he was always in and
out if you know what I mean. There was no constant from him
ever and and again I I agree like business was in India, we
were in the UK he was travelling for work and everything else so
I think that was that was that was missed out on and.
Of course, you know, he was providing, he was working to
provide for his family. I'm not taking that away from
him. But I think that, you know,
there's always a balance, as I said, on both sides.
Is that then the drawback to that is that he's not there and
maybe maybe then that that that you know?
But emotionally there for you. Emotionally there or even
physically. So that bond that's formed in
these early years, it wasn't there and then?
You know, I think personalities, we, we, we were very different.
When I was in India, I was, as I said, like kind of rebelling
because I was. So I wanted to show my own
person. And then I just think today,
where I am with my life, who I am, what I value, what I think's
important, you know, writing books on mental health
artistically and where he is and what what his view of the world
is and stuff like that. There's nothing wrong with that.
It's just sometimes you don't have.
I don't want to say too much in common, but you don't you know
you you're just very different to people.
And I just think that we're, I just think that we're very
different people and I don't think there's anything wrong in
that. I think that I think in fact as
I said in the book, coming to that realization that we are
just very different people actually helps to have a
relationship because then you can have it based on respect of
knowing your differences. One point in the book you say
and it's it's part of your your OCD that you talk about that you
have this great fear of jails and and and and and it would be
given the fact that your your your father is having has been
having legal troubles for some time is that something that that
adds to your anxiety and and and how him his legal troubles and
his moving to England. Have you changed your
relationship with him? I don't know if that has changed
the relationship or if it's just the fact that I've gotten older,
he's gotten older, I'm a different person.
That's kind of, if you know what I mean, that.
So whether that situation itself has changed the relationship,
I'm not entirely sure. The other thing you bear in mind
is I haven't seen him or my mother or actually anyone in 21
months, so I haven't been back to the UK since before.
Coronavirus. But it's.
I think the hard thing with the legal trouble, right, is that
it's like, and again, this is not about the case per SE, it's
about you. I don't think anyone wants to
see anyone going. You're close to suffering,
right? Whatever it is going, whatever
it is they're going through, whether they're right, wrong,
I'll. Well, I don't know.
Whatever it is, you don't want to see someone going through
anguish. And I think that's, that's the
hardest thing to take, right. And I think.
I think it kind of frustrates me at times, of course, because
again, as I said in the book, it's it's a public situation,
right? It's a public situation.
And when something is public, everyone feels they have the
right for an opinion, which they do.
Everyone does have a right to an opinion, like, you know, but,
and I feel that whether you're a punter on the street, on
Instagram or you're a journalist in the Times Group or any
national newspaper. You have a duty I feel, to do
certain levels of due diligence before coming to an opinion,
right? You've got to do your research
and then come to an opinion and then be open to discuss it.
But I think the thing that's frustrated me the most with this
case is that, you know, you just get messages from people online,
which it's not an opinion, it's just an all out attack.
And then when you try and reason with them and try and explain,
it's like no, no no. I'm right.
There's no other way. There's can't be anything else.
This is how it is, and that's kind of what the frustrating
thing is in there. The nature of social media, such
that you've also been for no fault of yours, been also
trolled quite a bit. What what?
What? What does that do to you and and
especially as someone who who has mental health issues.
And that's something that you know a lot of listeners might
might want to understand that that what happens when you get
trolled so viciously. Oh, it hurts.
Of course it hurts. It's it's very hurtful to read
anything about you, you know, about stuff like that, what
people say. But I think if your listeners
are listening to take something away from this is be mindful.
When you're commenting on social media, because to the outside,
to you, you might think that you're only commenting on a
photograph, right? But you've got to remember that
there's a real person behind that picture.
If you're commenting on Instagram or whatever, it's not
just a photo you're leaving a comment on.
You're actually leaving a comment to a real human being
that has real feelings. So I was talking about this the
other day with someone and you know, like.
Bullying is something that's always been a problem at
schools, right? Bullying has existed since time
began and it will continue to exist.
But at least I'm 34, which is not old.
But when I was growing up, if you wanted to, if someone was to
be bullied, it had to really be a face to face interaction.
Well now, with all this social media and all of this stuff, how
do you protect kids from this? That's where I think the real
problem is, is that, you know what I mean is that how do you
protect a young child from getting taken apart on a public
platform by people? It's it's it's something that I
think needs to be given a lot more attention to.
How do you deal with it given the fact that you're a
certificate? A a pretty popular person on
social media with lots of followers?
I am. I used to give it back to them.
I used to be like, OK fine, you want to abuse me, I'll give it
back to you. But now I actually just learn to
deal with things like empathy and love.
Like, honestly, it sounds really strange, but it's like if
someone sends you a message, like whatever, whatever,
whatever, I hope you die and you reply back being like, dear Sir,
thank you for your opinion. Much love to you with a heart
ebogy. What?
They can't really say anything to that, right?
And is. That what you do.
Is that what you do? I've had people who've direct
messaged me some horrible stuff and I've written back being like
this. Oh Madam, thank you for your
opinion but do you think this is really the most appropriate way
to think And they've either written back being like I'm so
sorry it was a lapse in judgement.
I shouldn't have said what I did.
Some people have gone and deleted their accounts off the
back of me responding like that. And and yeah, I mean one person,
this is what I'll say to your people out there like this is to
your listeners is that don't go and troll someone.
And then also have your place of work in your bio where you work.
Like you don't go and be stupid. Like, you know, one guy, I said
to him, I was like, I was like, you know, he abused me.
And I saw his profile and I was like, oh, I didn't know the
employees of X&X Corporation were trained to speak in such a
way. He deleted his account because I
think he was like, oh God, like so I think people don't realize
that, you know, just there's no need for it.
I'm going to ask one question about your dad before I move on
to talk about OCD. Is it you've You have obviously.
Coming to your own, You're a very different person, your dad.
What has been his response to your journey?
Has he read the book? He's not ready.
Yeah, I believe he got it. He sent me a picture of him
holding it yesterday. I don't think he's.
I think he knows I'm on the journey and he leaves.
He kind of like leaves me to do my own thing.
It's not really a journey that I've discussed with him in
depth. These journeys are individual.
I feel like as long as it's working for me then that's
that's what I've really got to focus on.
At the beginning in the book you talk about that you thought that
you had depression and you but eventually you got diagnosed by
OCD and then you go on to talk about you go on to talk about it
at some length. Can you, can you talk a little
bit about your battle with OCD? Well, I did have the depression
I was then the OCD diagnosis was off the back of it.
But I think my OCD has been one of those things which has
really, really, really caused me a lot of trouble in my life.
And I think for the most time I didn't even know it right.
I didn't know it was OCD. It's something which, and that's
why in that chapter, if you see like I actually dedicate the
beginning of the chapter to really talking about what it is
because I think it's so misunderstood as a mental
condition that it's not really given the time of day or the
respect that it requires. So for me it was about just
wanting to shine a light on it because it's been very painful
at times. Talk about that, because that's
what a lot of people will not understand or know about.
It leads you to do things. And sometimes it's really
irrational behavior just because you somehow feel like you have
to do it in order for for something not to go wrong or for
something to work out. And as I said in the book, like,
I'm a lot better at this now. But when I was young and I was
in school, I had to do things a certain number of times.
Like I'd open and shut my door like 25 times, except it
wouldn't be 25, it would have to be like 24 because that's an
even number. And yeah, it's just, it's stuff
like that where you just kind of get in this loop and you can go
down this rabbit hole and you just keep going and going and
going and going. And on a certain level, you
might know that what you're doing is irrational.
But the OCD is so strong that it makes you feel like, no, I've
got to do this. And how did you sort of get a
handle on it? You know, it's an ongoing
process. It's it's a condition that they
call chronic, which means it can never be cured, but it can be
managed. And again, with the therapist,
that's where it really I started working on it actively.
I started working on this workbook that I talk about and
what was great about the workbook is that it actually
gave me an insight into how the mechanics of this illness worked
and what I could do and exercises and stuff like that.
So that the workbook was very helpful.
And then, you know, honestly, I started taking some medication
again, SSRIs, which I didn't realize.
The SSRIs can treat a number of different things and one of the
things that actually treats his OCD as well.
And that's just because, you know, stress and things like
that can trigger it. And obviously the last six
months writing this book and everything has brought up a lot.
And I think I felt like at this time, I just need something to
kind of help me with it a little bit.
And so that's when I started taking these meds about probably
about a month ago. And I'm actually happy I'm doing
it because I feel like, you know, and this is a thing for
all your listeners out there, is that don't feel afraid to put
your hands up and be like, do you know what, I need more help
than what I already have or that I need help in the 1st place.
And I get it, like medication therapy is not an option for
everyone, but and there are so many other things one can do to
look after their own mental well-being.
You know, simple things even like going for a walk, doing
yoga, meditating workbooks. And these things are available
to everyone at very little or 0 cost.
So there are always ways to to help yourself.
So I'd say don't don't feel afraid to to look at all
different types of options. And you know, if you do take
medication, if you do go to a therapist, it's certainly not
weakness saying that you know what.
At this point I need a kind of extra helping hand.
Today's episode was produced by Jayaraj Singh, Sunay Marathi,
and Anuja Singh. For a daily spotlight on people,
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