From India's largest newsroom, I'm Arun George and this is the
Times of India podcast. Our embassy is actively pursuing
this. Case That was the statement made
by India's Foreign Ministry spokesperson back in December
2022 about the arrest and detention of eight Navy veterans
who were working in Qatar. Not much change in the case
between then and earlier this month.
On the 27th of October, the ministry expressed shock when
all eight of the Navy veterans were sentenced to death.
Captain Navdeed Singhil, Captain Birendra Kumar Verma, Captain
Saurabh Bashesh, Commander Amit Nagpal, Commander Purnendu
Tiwari, Commander Sugunakar Pakala, Commander Sanjeev Gupta
and Sailor Ragesh were taken into custody by the Qatari
intelligence service in Doha on the 30th of August 2022.
All eight men were detained and kept in solitary confinement.
Initially, multiple pleas for bail were rejected by the Qatari
court. The Indian government says it
still doesn't have a detailed version of the judgment to
appeal against it. However, multiple authorities
including Foreign Minister SJ Shankar have said that all
efforts would be made to ensure the Navy veterans release.
So what is known? All eight former Navy officials
were working with a company called Dhara Global in Qatar and
have been arrested on charges of espionage.
However, the charges against the Indian nationals have not been
made public by Qatari authorities.
Dara Global CEO Khamisa Lajmi, a retired Squadron Leader of the
Royal Oman Air Force, was briefly detained last day but
later released. The Indian national was said to
have been working on Qatar submarine project and also in
training Qatari defense forces. Some reports have hinted that
the eight Indians are accused of passing details of the Qatar
defense project to Israel. However, both India and Qatar
have not confirmed this claim In today's episode, My colleague
Harinder Bhaveja is in conversation with retired Major
General Satveer Singh, who is chairman of the Indian Ex
Servicemen Movement and United Front of Ex Servicemen.
He's been meeting with the family members of the DT and
Navy veterans and has also been writing to the government
seeking their help in resolving the issue.
He talks to Harinder Bhaveja about the handling of the case
so far and what he thinks can be done now.
Indias Foreign Minister Mr. Jay Shankar met the families only
after the death sentence was announced.
Isn't that shocking? Earlier also they have been
meeting. In fact the families were
allowed to go to Doha and meet the people.
That was also with the help of the our government.
So I believe that action has been taken but the outcome has
been nil. Isn't it surprising, Sir, that
despite the friendly relationship that you mentioned,
in fact Qatar and India celebrated 50 years of
friendship. Only recently there has been an
information void. We don't know what the charges
are, what they've been tried for, Everything is so hush hush
and even the Government of India is not taking its people into
confidence, not even taking the families into confidence.
But unfortunately it is shocking to the government too and they
said that we will do our best to ensure that our veterans come
back their safety. Even yesterday I've written a
letter to the honourable Prime Minister requesting him to do
his best to get our people back. There is no way we can get any
harm to our veterans, our defence personnel who have so
much of to give to the people they were training on the
request of the guitar. And training the Navy of the
guitar. I failed to understand that how
guitar has taken this step to put them, award them to go to
the gallows. The families have been in touch
with you for 14 months, ever since the officers were taken
into custody in August 2022. They must really be devastated.
How are the families doing, Sir? They were held into captivity on
the 30th of August. On 28th November, I believe that
they were trying at their own meeting everyone or meeting the
ambassador doing their best. But the families came to me on
the 28th of November morning Immediately on same day I wrote
a letter to the honorable our foreign minister with a copy to
the honorable Prime Minister and also to the defense Minister and
the three chiefs, the best brother who himself is in
Merchant Navy as a captain of the ship.
He has been ringing up also almost once a week or two or
twice a week. And the mother of Tej and the
wife of Tej. Then there was a Sagolka
commander, his wife and sister. They also came.
Then there is another from Gwalia Bhargwas.
They also have been in contact. So they have been coming off and
on to us for almost a year past. We've been also similarly trying
our level best. So families are concerned.
In fact very concerned. Day before when they were here
or three, four of them, I I could see the Maoist eyes giving
a life like this with no chances and somebody hanging us or
shooting us. It's just not acceptable.
Not to the defense forces, anyone serving or retired or to
the people of India. Let not that happen.
Therefore, all our pressures, not only of India but our
government must solicit the pressures from the whole world
to ensure that Qatar does not do anything wrong to harm our
patrons. Do you believe that the day the
death sentence was announced, we were all shocked?
Even the statement put out by the Government of India used the
word shock. Shocking.
Yes, so that day. Don't you think some senior
diplomat or minister should have gone to Qatar?
Well, it's the government's, you know, what they wish to do is
there. But as an individual, yes I I
feel the senior from the government, maybe a mobile call
or a telephone from honourable Prime Minister as well as
sending either the foreign minister or somebody higher up
go to Qatar and speak to the government who can get these
people back. So you expected that, but that
hasn't happened yet? There's nothing reported on the
news anywhere. That must be that the some
communication, diplomatic channels or something must be
going on, but we've not heard the honourable Prime Minister to
speak or the foreign minister to go.
So the government is a has expressed shock at the death
sentence and it also says that it's not fully aware of the
charges and which. The naval officers were
sentenced. Now isn't that a fair of sorts?
India said at one of the press conferences that it is providing
legal aid to the families. How can we not know the charges?
What is known to me through various media that there was
legal aid given and probably there were no arguments on this
in the court. And without arguments or
something we not heard, when there are no concrete charges, I
think there is a case to go to International Court of Justice
also if there is a need required after the diplomatic channels
have gone through. So there have been several
reports in the media saying that the naval officers were charged
for spying with for Israel. My question to you is that.
These reports were not denied by the Government of India.
That is something that is, you know, very discomforting.
I would not like to go on this question, the reason being that
this is something which led to the security and therefore best
left to the government. I was only wondering as to why
there's been no denial, that's all.
That is the government to answer.
I really, as an individual or a soldier, may not be able to do
so and I wish. I would not like to say anything
or make a comment on what the government is doing.
For one month we did not even know that the naval officers had
been taken into custody. The information became public
only when the sister of one of the commanders, she put out a
tweet tagging the Prime Minister.
That is how we got to know. Yes, I suppose so.
But when you're asking this question, I'm sure we have our
intelligence, we have all that and yet we did not know.
And where 30% of diaspora in in in Qatar is Indian, why we did
not know is also something my my mind doesn't accept.
What do you think are India's options?
As a soldier, as a defence analyst, I would say there are
few options which are available. First is to use our own
government to Qatar government direct talk.
The second, which I feel is to go to various organizations of
the world, G20 or whatever we have.
I'm sure all these people can create pressure to then ask the
Qataris government to send back our people and don't harm them.
Then we have International Court of Justice.
We should go to the International Court of Justice
and fight with the best of advocates we have in the
country. Such cases from various
countries have happened where the International Court of
Justice has ordered reversal of whatever punishments have been
given across the world for various countries.
So there is a treaty which was signed between India and Qatar
in 2015. For transfer of prisoners,
wherein the prisoners come back to their own country and serve
the sentence. But the complication in this
case is that it is not a life sentence, it is a death
sentence. So actually this is now a very,
very complicated case. They can even find out a way in
the judiciary to reverse the thing, and mercy petition is one
of them. And that also can be given
straight away. Or if the pressure is enough and
the Qatar government armir agrees to it, there are
challenges, both legal as well as diplomatic.
So our own diaspora is there, our trade is there, and why not
we stop that or do something to ensure that enough pressure
comes on here is that some people are there working for
them, working to help them. They are requested and we help
them. And then they're doing it.
I think there is something very serious which has given this
handle to the Qatari government to order death sentence.
Well, India must not accept it. Take all possible actions to see
that our people come back. The government definitely now
needs to go beyond just paying legal fees and hiring the best
lawyers. Are the families feeling even 1%
more reassured after their recent meeting with the foreign
minister? Just before the meeting, 5
minutes before I spoke to Navdeep Gill, who's brother of
Navdeep. They're saying, well, we are on
a fingers crossed. Though the honorable Foreign
Minister did say about four or five action plans to them, they
are still depressed. Commander Tiwari's mother as
well as sister and wife of Sagodkar, they are also here
only and they have been attempting to meet.
They also felt that they were probably not given enough space
to speak about for last one year.
Or that they are heard and various action they might have
been taken, but the families were not informed that with that
assurance. So let me ask you a straight
question because you're heading the Indian Ex servicemen
movement. The interest of all veterans
lies in your heart and you are battling that every day.
You must be quite broken. Now that there is this death
sentence staring us in the face. As been given this
responsibility, I do feel concerned and I do feel shocked
and I feel that this will not be done, this will not be allowed,
this must not be allowed. And you want your veterans back?
Veterans across the country from all three services.
They are writing, they are speaking, they are asking and
they stand with our veterans and they are demanding that they
must come back. They have also asked me that
take all measures possible to ensure the government does all
that and our people come back. Put out an appeal through Times
of India to the Prime Minister. What would you like to tell him
as far as the Qatar case goes, Sir?
Such a petition has been also floated by someone which over
2,00,000 people have already signed.
I would appeal to the all the people of India.
We should put out that petition to the honourable Prime Minister
to ensure that our people come back and through you, put across
whole country or world, wherever our diaspora is, that we should
all join together and do our best by any means what we can.
And put out this petition or request or appeal to the Prime
Minister that people he must now as a government take action as
he deems with as the government deems with.
Our bottom line is my weapons must come back as safe as they
were sent from here. Would you like to see him doing
more like sending senior ministers, officials to Qatar,
sitting there putting pressure, saying.
Tell us the charges. What have you done?
Why have you done this? I would like to appeal that I
have appealed to the honourable Prime Minister that take all
measures as the government feels fit.
But I requested him. It's safe and sound.
Our veterans return as soon as possible and they are taken away
from the custody and repatriated soonest as it can.
Today's episode was produced by Jayraj Singh and Anuja Singh.
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