From India's largest Newsroom. I'm Martin George.
And this is the times of India podcast.
The introduction of artificial intelligence models has raised
multiple questions on the future.
We wonder if it will affect disinformation.
We worried. It may take our jobs.
They're also chat box. Now that claim to answer 10
religious and spiritual doubts, there are worries that given how
well, artificial intelligence powered generative text models
work. We could have people following
new religions created by machines, author and
mythologist. If the Sputnik, however, It is a
bit of a cynic about how much artificial intelligence will
change religions and interpret myths, he's tested.
The Gita chat Bots that are there and wrote a column for toi
about his experience and the many shortcomings he found.
But what is the existence of a new intelligence mean for our
interpretation of faiths and even how we view, Our God's, my
colleague, Jay, Raj Singh. And I spoke with Dave that about
various aspects of myths, religion, and with the
artificial intelligence could change things we started by
talking about the Gita based chat Bots that are Will be
available to users. They have then we now have
multiple chatbots that cater to those seeking advice from Lord
Krishna and mysteriously all of them seem to be based on the
bhagavad-gita for one. Could you talk about why this
focus on the Gita when it comes to krsna's lessons?
And what are the limitations of this model where it's restricted
to one book? So let's ask who is doing this.
These are done by Engineers. Do not been studied biology a
lot which means they don't understand human emotions.
So the thing, everything is like a Engineering toolkit the world
of chemistry. The world of physics is very
controllable. Predictable electricity is
controllable and predictable objects are controllable and
predictable elements compounds but humans are not and what
they're trying to do desperately.
If you see even cell phones and software technology is they
trying to make humans controllable predictable, they
trying very hard to understand, the human only to make humans
part of a big machinery, which they can control.
These are the people who are excited by artificial
intelligence because you don't know what intelligence is.
If you ask any physiologist or biologists, they will see.
You cannot have an intelligence unless there is a survival.
Need it comes from a biological space intelligence doesn't exist
in the world of physics. It doesn't exist in the world of
chemistry. It exists in the world of
biology. So plants will have intelligence
animals will have intelligence because have to survive.
Machinery cannot have intelligence.
It's just a sophisticated algorithm.
But the using these clever words and they start believing it,
they start believing is intelligent what happens
nowadays? You are looking for a manual,
right? Christians have the Bible.
The Muslims have the Quran Hindus, need to have a Bible.
We need to have a book and that's supposed to be Gita.
And this is only in the 19th century phenomenon before 19th
century. Nobody gave key that the kind of
importance. We give it because the British
forced Hindus to come up with a book.
That sort of encapsulates, Hinduism.
And these are seem to fit the bill.
It's a mix of yoga. It comes from the Mahabharata,
so there's a lot in the bhagavad-gita is commendable,
but it is not the be-all and end-all of Hinduism.
And that's something that how do you explain this to an IT
engineer who has never studied history?
Never studied, geography doesn't know culture, who doesn't
understand emotions? Who doesn't understand mental
health problems. He just sees it as like, Problem
solution, a set of data points. This is somebody, you know, who
is dealt deeply in the works of Mythology and texts and you've
made them accessible to us readers.
Can you explain how difficult it is?
When you don't have sort of the background to start reading
them? Because these texts don't have
the linearity that we often find in sort of stories, right?
So, how do you then pass through?
Who this? Yeah, so when you read like The
bhagavad-gita and you say the rating chapters and they became
very excited about it and they begin the first chapter.
The first step is very clear the problem statement, but then the
second problem gets really, really, really intense and
thirds and gets very intense and then suddenly shifts gears.
And it starts shifting gears, very rapidly, and then you are
like, okay, where is it going? Because there is no clear place.
It is going because this was not written the way you and I would
write an essay with the introduction a conclusion.
There are. Parts which are interpolated.
The parts which have been added. A lot of things happening and
you just to draw an attention. There is something like most of
these. Bhagavad-gita, experts, do not
know that there is something called a new Gita.
So a new Gita is Krishna talking to Arjun again at the end of the
war when Arjun says, you know, I don't remember what you said,
before, the war. Can you please?
Repeat it. You know, and I remember this
one, one of these, right Wingers in the bhagavad-gita, is the
only book where God is directly talking to Arjun, and then I
looked at him and said, but there's also a new Gita and he
had no clue what the new Gita was.
And it is not like a telling something rocket science.
I just Googled in front of him. I said, okay, on Anu Gita.
And he was like, oh my god, I've never heard of this, my Guru.
She never talked about it because you just assume that
Guru ji told you everything and you never read these books and
you don't know how the the Complexity is of these
structures, then there is no but your own Dave that you don't
know Sanskrit but I certainly know there are hundreds of
translators, it's not like mystical magical stuff, it's
just basic language. And you read through
translators, you will understand what they probably most probably
allude to and metaphors will always be a challenge.
Any student of literature knows metaphor is a challenge.
But that's the way they are designed but you know how we'll
explain it to an engineer. How will explain metaphor to an
engineer who has lived all his life with formulas and numbers
and predictability who is not told there are layers of meaning
happening over here. You know, what is the meaning of
the word purushottama? You know, the first paragraph I
can spend hours explaining just the first paragraph of the but
we'll get. The Y, is Sanjay a blind person.
Having even been given Divine sight to tell the story to
dhritarashtra. Why is there a blind King?
Why is this? Story not been told directly,
the bhagavad-gita is not just a conversation in Arjuna and
krsna. It is a conversation overheard
by Sanjay, who is communicating it to threat arrastra?
This is been told by vyasa who is composed the story but we are
actually not listening to vyasa. We are listening to a
conversation where we asses story was narrated by a hiss to
didn't call Vice Champion, which is passed on to person know.
Naz ogress Rabe who is telling the story to someone else.
So it's like, Vaya, Vaya, Vaya, Vaya Vaya, how do you tell this
that there is a reason why they've designed it in this
missing. So oral tradition.
And therefore, I have heard this from so, and so, and he has
heard it from so and so and he heard it from so, and so, but by
the way, God was participating in it.
How do you explain this to people in?
Gita, incidentally is a book to help you deal with the absence
of predictability in your life. Life that nothing is for
granted. Nothing is predictable.
There are no algorithms, there is no defined place.
That is the purpose of the Gita, the whole purpose of the Gita is
to tell you your life cannot be made predictable.
So, but sticking with this topic of chat boards there is this
Bible chat pod that still exists.
You have an Islamic one that went offline.
After it said that you know, you should kill polytheists and this
sort of question on some model where I just put in my
questions. If I'm bored.
What do I do or something? Similar is something that's
existed. It's not something that the a
model has come up with it. Something even spiritual leaders
have done for decades books have been written like that.
So what happens now when it's a chatbot and a mobile bi is that
very different. She'll give you an example,
okay? There is in the second chapter
of the Gita third verse. I think Krishna calls Arjun, he
uses Sanskrit word Clipper. Now if you ask the chat box what
is Ever. It will go to the word Clipper
and then it will go to dictionary.
And then from the dictionary, pull out those meanings and
share it with you. Now, Clipper means the
equivalent of numbered in Hindi, to Krishna, is looking at our
June and saying number the mud below because he's telling I
won't fight. It is typical to have some
Soldier. If a soldier is a micro needle
Mikuni, carne. The standard dialogue would be
something like, don't be a wuss. Don't be a woman.
You know, we will use this kind of language amongst friends,
right. People are suddenly I'm
comfortable because God is using Language like, you've been doing
Krishna is God, how can Krishna use a language and insulting
condescending? Deriding language is God is not
supposed to behave like that, because we have decided, how God
should behave. We construct, God, we decide how
God should behave. And then we see this dialogue,
which doesn't align. And this is should the Sanskrit.
And it's basically saying, now, murdered in krsna's using this
language, it's the kind of word which was used by politicians to
abuse the opponent's, it's not a nice word but it's used in the
Story of to understand is told in a context, it's told in the
battlefield, there is a soldier, the soldiers waiting for you,
and it's their friends and they talking to each other, this
cannot be pulled out of various sources, right?
You will. So what happens?
And if you start using chatbots, you realize you can trick it.
You can ask the same question in a different way.
Using different grammar playing around and it gets can it
doesn't you? Confuse it just keeps looking at
each of those questions as different questions because it
doesn't have the power of language language is not a
database structure. Its Which is creative and we are
continuously defining language. We can create new words.
That's the nature of language. Imagination is playing a role I
am talking to you. And as I'm talking to you, I'm
figuring out how you think? How you behave when I'm talking
to a child? A talk differently?
When I'm talking to an adult, a talk differently chatbot?
Doesn't understand all this. It doesn't understand.
Who is entering this data. If the sentence is it a child?
Is the man. Is it a woman is a Christian?
Is that a Muslim? Is it Urban person and a rural
person unemployed person? He knows nothing.
It just does. Only data it has is the words
that you wrote on that sheet of paper when a human being is
talking to you about the bhagavad-gita, he sees you.
The guruji's are looking at you and that using Gita as a kind of
a reference material, like a lawyer would.
But when the law is talking to, you is sensing how insecure you
are frightened you are, he's also not sure how the case is
going to turn out but he's giving you words to comfort you
and then preparing for his case and there's a lot of going on in
his head you can't replace Fire with a chatbot.
Even some subject like law. I still ask people.
Why are you creating a beautiful algorithm with all the
information of the law and all the president papers from around
the world which is very well documented?
We don't need lawyers then right.
Then we don't need judges, it'll be so easy.
I just put the case paper and it will come out.
The answer will come out in a fraction of a second and we
could end all the problems of you know the cases pending we
don't need an argument. But in my how we'll chat bot
deal with the same-sex marriage issue.
So if you can't deal with human legal political issues, how do
you deal with God and divine? Which is so abstract in meaning
and dealing with emotional issues, but they were given
that, you know, that you spoke about how unlike other
religions, we don't have one particular book, which makes the
interpretation for our religion that much harder.
There is no one voice telling you to follow these things.
How does then a new generation access something?
So complex has Hinduism at a time when Hinduism is being
challenged in so many countries. So every religion has this
problem, let's take a Bible. If you say the Bible is one
book. We call it one book but the
denominations within denominations within
denominations who don't agree with half the things and if you
go to the translations will be read in English, it's written in
Aramaic. And as the translations happen,
the word the meanings kept changing for example.
Now, when you read the new Bibles in America, actually use
the word homosexuality. There was no word homosexuality
in Aramaic. There is no word like
homosexuality in Aramaic. You have come here, foosh pushed
in a word there. So there is no one Bible out
there. The king, there are many, many,
many bibles out there, so I'm talking about just things which
we assume is fixed. Let's look at the Quran, the
conversation of God, but in Islam is not just the Quran is
also the hadees which is the life of the Prophet and the
Shia's will never agree with the sunnis, will never agree with
anybody. And I always smile because
whenever I tell this is there is a but you're not a Muslim, you
won't understand. I said that's this line.
You get from everyone, right? Which means all Muslims have to
understand, which means all Muslims think the same way.
But then, why are they quarrels even there?
It's not as simple. As we think was language is
slippery. You know, I can tell you, I hate
you but a lover can tell the Beloved, I hate you and that can
be put in a database as I hate You and how does the chat box
figure? The meaning of this high heat to
because they don't get the intonation.
The sound context. When was it said, how was it?
Said. Imagine every word that we utter
has so many things embedded in it, the intonation, the context
who is saying, when is it, say in what stage is he saying every
sentence? So the database doesn't capture
all of it. How much ever you capture?
The Digital Data, the cameras and all that.
They don't capture it. The, but the assumption that
because An easy problem. I can capture the word and I
started giving you words over. That's the problem in court
cases, right? I remember recently, I saw an
interview of the lady is mine. I will kiss, Bono case.
She said, that every time they're asking me to repeat the
event. Step one.
Why you asking you to repeat when it's already been recorded
stew. Every time she repeats.
She's terrified. If she makes one mistake, the
court of the judges. The lawyers will pounce on her
and attacker. This is how complex Life Is,
Right. Memory is there?
It's never black and white case that I can prove.
That rapists are not rapists. Same way.
Now, imagine what happens in the realm of imagination, in the
realm of transcendental ideas, it gets even more complicated,
you know, bhagavad-gita, when you see the word athma, what
does it mean? When you say the Dharma, what
does it mean? Because in the conversation,
there's an assumption, the people know the meanings of
these words, the meaning of the word.
Clipper, for example, I mean, give you the example, I remember
this one. Crazy, right wing, goo, Instead
try to attack me say that you don't know some skills, you
don't know some skills and this in observed premise because it's
saying that all translators are, don't matter the translations
don't matter. You only if you know the
language and this is exactly what how brahmins controlled
things, right? They said that only if you know
the language but now the chat bot only refers to English
texts, it is not referring to the thermal translations.
It is not referring to the Gujarati translations and those
translations then they have to re translate them and then come
up with something and then come up with an idea.
Algorithm. The assumption is that if I got
lots of databases, lots and lots of points of view, somehow
democratically through clever, weight age and anybody
understand statistics how these things work mathematical come up
with the correct answer. That premise is wrong.
That remains is wrong in human relationships.
I don't know where it'll work, but maybe it'll work in how to
write an answer. This answer to a physics problem
to chemistry problem where it is an objective.
There cannot be two ways about it, but the moment it comes to
the realm of humanities where there can be opinions, views
points of views, technology cannot work because it's
foundationally wrong. Otherwise, we would have simple
chat Bots to solve diseases, right?
You don't need doctors but disease.
Is not just a set of physical symptoms.
It's also subjective how I respond to pain is varied the
way you respond to pain, and I respond to pain will be very
different. Then if you are cut with a knife
and I am cut with the knife, the way I will describe it and feel
it. The doctor will say it, does it
from one to ten. Tell me the pain.
You may say that it, you know, someone was a soldier was fought
in battles, may say three, and I will say 11.
But what is the correct thing? How does a chatbot figure it
out? This is where I realize, you
know, that we think these Engineers are very smart, but
they never studied the subjects. I am a student of Science and
studied medicine and I know how complex medicine is.
And I studied with some of the best doctors in India and they
would tell how difficult it is. To, you know, even when you
know, it's a cancer, even if you know, which drugs to give you
are never short because biology is unpredictable.
Somebody will get a allergic reaction which you never thought
of. That's why they make, you sign
all those consent forms because you think you don't know how
your body will respond. And we just talked about the
body over here, we're not even talking about the mind when
you're talking about Gita. We are dealing with existential
crisis. What is the purpose of life?
How can I kill my relatives, these are the function questions
he's asking. Yeah, profounder in or should I
kill idolaters Quran? Its if you read the Quran it's
not that simple. How it is, organized?
How the Quran is organized. What is the first chapter?
But is the last chapter, the later verses are the first
chapter and the early versus are the last chapter, even then
Scholars aren't 100% sure of the sequencing of it.
So in the sequence, what is the value of the sequence?
What the prophet heard on day one is it as important as what
you heard in the last day even then.
When Scholars sitting in the room, may not agree on it, and
you expect a machine to figure it out.
It's like saying, I don't need a wife, I can handle a Robo Robo,
will take care of me and we all know yes, there are sex toys in
the world and there are these machines that will cook for you
and they will not give you love. No machine can give you love or
affection, or take away your insecurities.
Show me a machine that does that it at best distracts you.
But with AI, one more thing that you're going to have is the
visual representational Factor as well.
I do. Already seeing to sort of shifts
where, you know, you give cues, you're getting, you're getting a
brown. Jesus, you're getting things
like that things which are fundamentally altering, our own
imagination of these characters, in the previous episode, we
discussed this sort of angry and one which came from a synthesis
of two random images. Do you think there's a scene now
where we may see new visual cues for how we perceive Our God's,
you know, how does Jesus look? You know, for most people is a
white man with red hair which was created by the The
Renaissance artist based on their lovers really, and it's
very disturbing for people to hear this but the fact is the
renaissance man. They saw these beautiful man in
Venice and Geneva and the painted, these men.
And that's the image of Jesus that you have is not.
Looks like an Arab, the only physical description that we
probably have Jesus, is that he had a slightly hooked nose?
That's the only information that we seem to have physical not
other that we have nothing. I mean there was some apocryphal
test. Is he was a short man and you
know you have all these Words, but he was being added, would be
sunburned at the very least. You can just go to Middle
Eastern. Photograph people over there and
just imagine, but that's not the Jesus that you see.
When you look at the Buddha, when he goes to China, he looks
Chinese. And he looks Japanese and he
looks Korean different parts of the world Keanu.
Reeves played him in the Bollywood Hollywood version of,
you know, some somehow he's not a Nepali, he can be anything.
Even Indians refuse to believe that it would be a Nepali guy
because, you know, how could it be Nepali and this kind of
racism comes in. It seeps in and that's what the
chat bot is going to get the racism.
You can see that in all these because most of these are my
Engineers, they have their own political leanings.
So they pick up their own politics and start thinking
that, oh, I can change the world because through this
engineering, I will tell people ROM looks and it, you know, I
saw the man of this video with the show.
This is our arm looked and I'm like, oh my God, this looks like
Mishra ji from gorakhpur. So it could see that what was
the data points being given to him or they should all have
these jaw lines which remind you of Hollywood actors.
Because they're using those images to each other know.
Obviously, there are more images of Hollywood stars than you have
even of Indian Stars. We would like to believe that
Indian Stars a lot of photographs, but its sheer
volume, you would have more Hollywood images out there than
Bollywood images, and of course God's will never be African,
right? We cannot have African gods and
you see all these racism coming into the algorithms?
Also, and remember when we see a DAT, people saw God's in rocks,
this all gods in clouds. This or gods and rivers, this or
gods and trees. We see God the way we want to
see God dream, you know, in Hindu temples away from the
third century. When they started creating God's
to distinguish human and divine figures, they said God should
have four hands. Otherwise a lady holding a pot
and a Lotus could be any woman. How do you know it is Lakshmi
for hands? That is the only proof that it's
divine for hands is the minimum requirement.
And you see this only from the third Century, you don't see it
before that. You see it only the PostScript
the period when you start seeing, when I started looking
for images with four hands. They start appearing only 4th
5th Century. So, we created these images to
these were. And if you look at carefully, I
mean something that people, comment the human face your face
in my face, the left side is not the same as, right?
Because it's That's How Humans Beings are designed.
It's asymmetrical. But if you look at an Egyptian
statues, the statues look perfect because the left
Excited. They're done mathematically.
They're not done looking at a person.
They're done mathematically. All the traditional Indian art,
the gods are done mathematically.
They are impressionist drawings because they are talking about
transcendental ideas. They are not fools, they're not
idiots. Even when a madhubani painter is
drawing, she knows she's talking about conceptual things.
She's talking about the river who is riding a crocodile and
talking to the trees. She doesn't think the trees
talking. She is knows metaphors.
She knows symbols. She knows the language of
symbols. She knows the language of
metaphors. No computer not can ever use
metaphor. That's what computers can't
crack jokes, but this seems to be greedy learning among people
to somehow get addicted so Commandments or easy reference
points to access religion. And in this is increasingly, so
happening with a younger generation, which perhaps has
not had the same tradition of, of, of yours of understanding
that we come from a world of stories and not algorithms, Of
the challenges and this kind of referencing has upon them.
See in one way, this is the reason why Islam became very
popular and still is one of the most fastest growing religions
in the world because it this seems to be certainty.
Everybody will pray in exactly the same way God has told you to
pay four times or five times a day.
What has told you to not work once a week God has told you to
do this. It's very clean.
It's apparently clean. Apparently so it gives you a
sense of control as It's of order, you are all over lost and
suddenly somebody tells you you know just do this 2010, things
in life will get better. You have these listicles.
Right? This is if you eat like this,
your stomach problems will be solved if we would write like
this religion also does the same thing and therefore Islam is
popular because of that, but what happens after some time,
look at the history of Islam, they started killing each other
shortly. After the prophet left, even
when the prophet was alive, they were killing each other.
After the prophet goes over, his family starts, killing his
father, in law and in In law fight with each other, which is
either. She has only divide happens.
So even though that it's such a clear set of instructions
because what happens is those instructions, work for people
individually, they don't work even with your partner.
So within a network, we live in a network of relationships.
You and I have to deal with hundreds of people, those laws
which work for me, may not work for you and I there are hundreds
like you out there. So then I have to deal with
everybody who doesn't agree with me and that's very frustrating.
And I am used to Ecology where everything is under my control
press press, press a few buttons.
That's why people are Harry Potter.
Right? One Mantra one wizard that
wizard will move like this and suddenly things will happen.
What happened to those people who read Harry Potter.
They turned on the creator of Harry Potter with a Vengeance
when she didn't align with their politics and it's something that
must never be forgotten. That's a great story.
And that's how life is we want control.
We want predictability engineering, Science.
The way science has been Western science.
Science, doesn't have to be science is just the study of
nature and figuring it out but the West has always approached
science with the aim to control it.
I want to control it so that I can make it predictable and make
life a better place because they believe I can control the world.
That is how the Western religions are designed to
control commandments. So you have command prompt.
That's the language they use. A whole language of the West is
based on control. Its military control.
Even God keeps punishing. I mean, you read the Old
Testament, God punishes you when you don't follow the rules, but
people keep not following the rules.
I mean, if I was to be a brutal critical say, oh my God, even
God is Not That powerful because all his children don't seem to
be listening to him. The keep arguing, he keeps
putting fire floods and all that.
And now we think dick tasters think that we can do better than
God. You know, what?
Krishna couldn't stop the war, but I can stop a war.
Do you realize how stupid that sounds, you know, you know,
Noah's Ark flooded the whole world, but still children, don't
listen to him. The still disagree with him and
the still worship idols and we are tailing.
That Engineers will create a chatbot to control the world and
make the world, a happy / happy, they mean a controllable world
where everybody listens to what they have put in the commands,
but there are also people who are increasingly wanting to
follow it. That's the way.
Something always be. So what happens is you have two
groups of people so the bit to algorithm then they'll fight
with each other which is exactly what happened. 100 years ago,
it's like somebody set a partition of India will solve
all our problems. It didn't nowadays, somebody
saying, the uniform civil code will solve all our problems.
It won't somebody say, if I get married to this girl, all my
problems will be solved. We are, we are human beings.
We constantly believe the next big challenge is going to solve
our problems. The fact is it won't?
That is why the Buddha had down and say stop.
This is what Indian philosophy always does.
The Jane's said, stop, you will not find a solution.
This is the way the world is should in India.
They would always say ET. This is the way the world is now
deal with it. What you are saying that?
I will only the only way I can exist is by controlling the
world or withdrawing from the world Indian philosophy.
Said, no, this is the way the world is.
Don't we draw from it? Observe it deal with it.
Boohoo, if you can't handle it because you'll keep coming back
into this world, it will never go away.
So it's literally a very brutal philosophy.
Indian philosophy is very brutal.
It says, no, there is no happily ever after.
Are you find in order to do that?
What you find? There is a happy ever after and
when you reach that they say, well, no really but so in the
thought is very is basically saying this is the way the
world. Is and they will always be
people who seek control. This is so funny.
It reminds me of that video game that we used to grow.
We grow up playing Mario which every at the end of every level
inference is sorry about your princess is in another Castle.
You go to the other Carson and start all over again.
With more complexities, you need more complex, it is.
And the thing is, we know that the castle will never be there.
We know it, but will still play the game, right?
Because it's fun to play the game.
The Fab point is not to find the castle.
The point is not, the point is with your friends, competing and
seeing, which level you are in and that's to figure it out.
It's not about the princess. In the castle, it's about you
enjoying yourself and getting a break from the homework.
That's what you want. That's what life is about.
And, you know, these are the philosophies that the Indians
and most of the fellows not is the Indians around the world,
the wise men talk about. But, you know, then you have
Engineers will say that no. What we know what, we have all
those cliches that impossible is written in the dictionary of
fools? I am possible, all those things
are there. Then you have to tell heart,
very good. I have met people who argue
things and you know if you tell them that you know but you know
if it disappear nothing is going to change in this world.
Even if you win nothing is going to change.
Even if you lose nothing is going to change the world which
is going to be. So you focus on what you can do
and how you can live a happier life and if a chatbot is going
to answer the questions, For you, good for you.
But it may not work fathers and that's the thing.
You have to accept, it may work for you but it may not work for
others. It may solve your life's
problems, it may not solve your neighbors.
Life's problems are bringing is we wanted to solve everyone's
life problems. It won't my Guru.
Ji works for me. My chatbot works for me my you
know, drugs work for me. They may not work for you.
And that is diversity. And that is inclusion is to
accept that. And this is something that
unfortunately very difficult to tell Engineers that very
difficult. I want to what do have made.
So do it takes, do they have a definition for information
because we understand wisdom. But we are now dealing in a
world where there is so much information which technology is
sort of lifted or on wielder Unleashed upon us.
How do how does it describe information?
So it's very difficult to say what does mythology business.
These are complex words in English and in Sanskrit and what
do some skills me like this word like neon and vegan and is very
difficult to explain the difference between gown and
began. I have seen, at least three
definitions given for Gannon began, so every Guru gives it a
different spin in science. Science is based on measurement,
everything is based on measurement and statistics.
That's the one thing which is it is not dependent on opinion, it
is based on mathematics and That's the unique thing about
science, its definition of Sciences nucleus, in verba, not
on anyone's word, it is only based on math is ontological.
It is way outside you now, Hindu mythology, divides.
Our Indian thought really divides the world into two parts
that which is measurable. And that which is
non-measurable. So, the measurable part is what
the science deals with, and that's the information.
So all the info as you improve your improvements, your
information gets further refined, you know today you
could see the stars See the galaxies then you can see
something Beyond it or you can see smaller and smaller things,
you can see atoms and quizzes and electrons and something
subatomic particles and you keep going because your instruments
have improved. But that remains the material
world of measurement. What you don't and cannot
measure is the non-measurable, world, the needle.
Gouda the nirakara, and that is where the Divinity is at a
really, it's the world of emotion at the very simple.
Practical level, it's the world of emotion.
No, scientist can measure emotion, they can measure a
Logical response that your body has to an emotion.
When you get angry, what does your body do?
That can be measured. I cannot measure.
I always tell people that if you hunt in the forest, the dopamine
release in. You is the same as when you sign
the billion-dollar contract, the billion-dollar contract will
release the same neural response in your body as somebody killing
a deer in the forest 10,000 years ago after days of
starvation. Science will read both of them
the same way unless you have an understanding of the context,
the physical response can be measured in all the
psychological response. This is nirvana, this is an
Indian thought is very clear. This is non-measurable, you will
capture it through language. So you'll have different words
to explain anxiety nervousness will keep using these refined
language, but that's not measurement.
You can't use language for science.
So the practice he nature, which is measurable is information.
That which is non-measurable. The sensations, the feelings,
the emotions, the Brahma, the Atma, the Jiva, the, your fears,
your insecurities. Those cannot be measured will
never. You can know it is there.
But you can't measure it. You can get a recorder to say.
Oh, he's scared. He's scared.
You'll only get a measurement of his physiological and therefore,
you can be tricked by somebody who can create the physical.
You know, the actors can pretend to be angry without being angry.
And they can get the same physiological reactions
beautifully, they'll show anger, frothing mouth and everything,
but they're not angry at all. They performing.
So, that's the whole thing. You can, you know, the
information is, the Iron Man suit, not the person within that
will never be. You cannot have all the
information on a human being. Even the poet writing, his
emotions in the finest language may be fooling himself.
So, finally, I just want to ask that if you do, look at the
whole Greek myths about man-made creatures, they almost in always
seem to be about men, developing things that go horribly wrong
for them. I mean, now that's carried
forward into the Marvel Universe with your Iron Man metaphor as
they say where you're constantly creating things that come back
to bite you later. Why do most of our myths?
Talk of magnet creatures as cautionary tales?
Why it does in there ever a thing that kind of sees the
world as You said, I just love the way you use the word
man-made and not artificial artificial.
Man-made intelligence doesn't sell as well as artificial
intelligence, right. The thing is in Hindu myths, you
have this thing of the Asura asking for immortality and then
he is told that you can't get immortality then he comes up
with a clever, you know, idea that he says will ensure is and
then that becomes a loophole and then he destroyed by that and
then the world keeps. So nothing is permanent and that
is a re-established through this Be telling in the Greek myths,
the whole idea is that you know, when you know you have these
characters creating these powerful tools and machines and
this constant need to emulate the gods, but gods are
constantly telling you that it won't work.
It won't work you. So why are you building this
tools? And that's the question.
You have to ask yourself, you have to ask yourself.
Why are you building this tools and myths?
Are there not to stop you from taking initiative?
But to tell you that be clear, why you are taking the
initiative, whether it fails, whether it works.
It's, please be clear. Why you're taking the
initiatives? Mythology is the memories of our
ancestors. They are not storytellers.
They are the memories of millions of years, which have
been communicated to the roster stories symbols and rituals.
When I tell people stories, I see and I'm carrying the voice
of millions of ancestors. You see this young child saying
that? No, but I can change the world
but what the rear forget. Is yes, the world has changed
but it is only trained in technology.
It has not changed in Emotion jealousy.
A thousand years ago and jealousy today is exactly the
same presence of a cell phone in your life or a laptop or a
Wi-Fi. Doesn't make you less jealous.
Elon Musk can never create an app that reduces jealousy.
And the day and engineer says, I can create an app that will
reduce jealousy. All it does is increase the
competitive Spirit. It makes you basically makes you
hungrier and angrier and angrier and angrier.
It is not able to make you content.
It is not able to make you less jealous.
It is not able to make you calm down because it these
Technologies are not designed for the mind, the design for
matter. And all shifts.
I mean the last Thousand Years digitization industrialization
agriculture Revolution on all that only technology has changed
mind has not changed and that is something that people forget
that your mind is defend. The problem with mind is,
there's no universal mind. We are three of us here talking.
We have three different Minds in this room becomes from three
different spaces. What works for me will never
work for you. And there are millions, there
are billions of people in this world.
Each one thinks differently so So even if you create a
universal mind, which is what humans and of the World created
some they try to again the science.
Now the try to control, everybody knew that, no one
religion, no one God, no one chatbot, no month, it'll never
work but will still try. Today's episode was produced by
Jay Raj, Singh soon. I moratti and on Vijay Singh for
a daily Spotlight. On people ideas and stories that
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