1 00:00:01,300 --> 00:00:04,100 From India's largest Newsroom. I'm Martin George. 2 00:00:04,100 --> 00:00:06,500 And this is the times of India podcast. 3 00:00:19,300 --> 00:00:22,400 The introduction of artificial intelligence models has raised 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,100 multiple questions on the future. 5 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:26,600 We wonder if it will affect disinformation. 6 00:00:26,700 --> 00:00:28,400 We worried. It may take our jobs. 7 00:00:28,700 --> 00:00:31,200 They're also chat box. Now that claim to answer 10 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,000 religious and spiritual doubts, there are worries that given how 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,200 well, artificial intelligence powered generative text models 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,000 work. We could have people following 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 new religions created by machines, author and 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,200 mythologist. If the Sputnik, however, It is a 13 00:00:45,208 --> 00:00:47,900 bit of a cynic about how much artificial intelligence will 14 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:51,200 change religions and interpret myths, he's tested. 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,200 The Gita chat Bots that are there and wrote a column for toi 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,200 about his experience and the many shortcomings he found. 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,300 But what is the existence of a new intelligence mean for our 18 00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:04,000 interpretation of faiths and even how we view, Our God's, my 19 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,200 colleague, Jay, Raj Singh. And I spoke with Dave that about 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,100 various aspects of myths, religion, and with the 21 00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:12,300 artificial intelligence could change things we started by 22 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:15,300 talking about the Gita based chat Bots that are Will be 23 00:01:15,300 --> 00:01:19,900 available to users. They have then we now have 24 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:24,100 multiple chatbots that cater to those seeking advice from Lord 25 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:28,000 Krishna and mysteriously all of them seem to be based on the 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,500 bhagavad-gita for one. Could you talk about why this 27 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:34,200 focus on the Gita when it comes to krsna's lessons? 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,700 And what are the limitations of this model where it's restricted 29 00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:41,000 to one book? So let's ask who is doing this. 30 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,000 These are done by Engineers. Do not been studied biology a 31 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,700 lot which means they don't understand human emotions. 32 00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:50,000 So the thing, everything is like a Engineering toolkit the world 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,800 of chemistry. The world of physics is very 34 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,300 controllable. Predictable electricity is 35 00:01:54,300 --> 00:01:57,100 controllable and predictable objects are controllable and 36 00:01:57,100 --> 00:02:02,100 predictable elements compounds but humans are not and what 37 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:03,700 they're trying to do desperately. 38 00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:06,500 If you see even cell phones and software technology is they 39 00:02:06,500 --> 00:02:10,199 trying to make humans controllable predictable, they 40 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:15,000 trying very hard to understand, the human only to make humans 41 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,900 part of a big machinery, which they can control. 42 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:20,500 These are the people who are excited by artificial 43 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:22,600 intelligence because you don't know what intelligence is. 44 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,500 If you ask any physiologist or biologists, they will see. 45 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:30,600 You cannot have an intelligence unless there is a survival. 46 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,000 Need it comes from a biological space intelligence doesn't exist 47 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,000 in the world of physics. It doesn't exist in the world of 48 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,300 chemistry. It exists in the world of 49 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:41,000 biology. So plants will have intelligence 50 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,500 animals will have intelligence because have to survive. 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,400 Machinery cannot have intelligence. 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,200 It's just a sophisticated algorithm. 53 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:51,500 But the using these clever words and they start believing it, 54 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:53,800 they start believing is intelligent what happens 55 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,300 nowadays? You are looking for a manual, 56 00:02:57,300 --> 00:02:59,000 right? Christians have the Bible. 57 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,500 The Muslims have the Quran Hindus, need to have a Bible. 58 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,400 We need to have a book and that's supposed to be Gita. 59 00:03:04,900 --> 00:03:07,500 And this is only in the 19th century phenomenon before 19th 60 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:09,000 century. Nobody gave key that the kind of 61 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,300 importance. We give it because the British 62 00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:13,900 forced Hindus to come up with a book. 63 00:03:14,100 --> 00:03:16,600 That sort of encapsulates, Hinduism. 64 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,300 And these are seem to fit the bill. 65 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:22,400 It's a mix of yoga. It comes from the Mahabharata, 66 00:03:23,500 --> 00:03:26,200 so there's a lot in the bhagavad-gita is commendable, 67 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,800 but it is not the be-all and end-all of Hinduism. 68 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:33,500 And that's something that how do you explain this to an IT 69 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:35,100 engineer who has never studied history? 70 00:03:35,300 --> 00:03:38,100 Never studied, geography doesn't know culture, who doesn't 71 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:40,700 understand emotions? Who doesn't understand mental 72 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:44,500 health problems. He just sees it as like, Problem 73 00:03:44,500 --> 00:03:49,100 solution, a set of data points. This is somebody, you know, who 74 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:53,500 is dealt deeply in the works of Mythology and texts and you've 75 00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:56,000 made them accessible to us readers. 76 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,000 Can you explain how difficult it is? 77 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,600 When you don't have sort of the background to start reading 78 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,300 them? Because these texts don't have 79 00:04:07,300 --> 00:04:11,800 the linearity that we often find in sort of stories, right? 80 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,900 So, how do you then pass through? 81 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,000 Who this? Yeah, so when you read like The 82 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,300 bhagavad-gita and you say the rating chapters and they became 83 00:04:19,300 --> 00:04:21,500 very excited about it and they begin the first chapter. 84 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:24,200 The first step is very clear the problem statement, but then the 85 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,000 second problem gets really, really, really intense and 86 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,100 thirds and gets very intense and then suddenly shifts gears. 87 00:04:31,300 --> 00:04:33,700 And it starts shifting gears, very rapidly, and then you are 88 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:37,000 like, okay, where is it going? Because there is no clear place. 89 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,700 It is going because this was not written the way you and I would 90 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:43,500 write an essay with the introduction a conclusion. 91 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:45,700 There are. Parts which are interpolated. 92 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:49,500 The parts which have been added. A lot of things happening and 93 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:51,700 you just to draw an attention. There is something like most of 94 00:04:51,707 --> 00:04:53,100 these. Bhagavad-gita, experts, do not 95 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:54,800 know that there is something called a new Gita. 96 00:04:55,700 --> 00:04:59,000 So a new Gita is Krishna talking to Arjun again at the end of the 97 00:04:59,008 --> 00:05:02,200 war when Arjun says, you know, I don't remember what you said, 98 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:03,200 before, the war. Can you please? 99 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,400 Repeat it. You know, and I remember this 100 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,900 one, one of these, right Wingers in the bhagavad-gita, is the 101 00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:15,300 only book where God is directly talking to Arjun, and then I 102 00:05:15,308 --> 00:05:17,800 looked at him and said, but there's also a new Gita and he 103 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,300 had no clue what the new Gita was. 104 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,700 And it is not like a telling something rocket science. 105 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:25,600 I just Googled in front of him. I said, okay, on Anu Gita. 106 00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:28,200 And he was like, oh my god, I've never heard of this, my Guru. 107 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,700 She never talked about it because you just assume that 108 00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:33,400 Guru ji told you everything and you never read these books and 109 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,100 you don't know how the the Complexity is of these 110 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,400 structures, then there is no but your own Dave that you don't 111 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,200 know Sanskrit but I certainly know there are hundreds of 112 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,300 translators, it's not like mystical magical stuff, it's 113 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:47,700 just basic language. And you read through 114 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:51,100 translators, you will understand what they probably most probably 115 00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:53,500 allude to and metaphors will always be a challenge. 116 00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:56,200 Any student of literature knows metaphor is a challenge. 117 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,100 But that's the way they are designed but you know how we'll 118 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:02,100 explain it to an engineer. How will explain metaphor to an 119 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:05,200 engineer who has lived all his life with formulas and numbers 120 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,200 and predictability who is not told there are layers of meaning 121 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,900 happening over here. You know, what is the meaning of 122 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:14,500 the word purushottama? You know, the first paragraph I 123 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:17,100 can spend hours explaining just the first paragraph of the but 124 00:06:17,100 --> 00:06:20,000 we'll get. The Y, is Sanjay a blind person. 125 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:23,500 Having even been given Divine sight to tell the story to 126 00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:25,800 dhritarashtra. Why is there a blind King? 127 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,800 Why is this? Story not been told directly, 128 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,800 the bhagavad-gita is not just a conversation in Arjuna and 129 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,300 krsna. It is a conversation overheard 130 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,000 by Sanjay, who is communicating it to threat arrastra? 131 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,900 This is been told by vyasa who is composed the story but we are 132 00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:44,200 actually not listening to vyasa. We are listening to a 133 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:51,300 conversation where we asses story was narrated by a hiss to 134 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:56,400 didn't call Vice Champion, which is passed on to person know. 135 00:06:56,500 --> 00:07:02,400 Naz ogress Rabe who is telling the story to someone else. 136 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:08,100 So it's like, Vaya, Vaya, Vaya, Vaya Vaya, how do you tell this 137 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:10,000 that there is a reason why they've designed it in this 138 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,300 missing. So oral tradition. 139 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,900 And therefore, I have heard this from so, and so, and he has 140 00:07:13,900 --> 00:07:16,800 heard it from so and so and he heard it from so, and so, but by 141 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,600 the way, God was participating in it. 142 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:20,800 How do you explain this to people in? 143 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,200 Gita, incidentally is a book to help you deal with the absence 144 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,000 of predictability in your life. Life that nothing is for 145 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,700 granted. Nothing is predictable. 146 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,100 There are no algorithms, there is no defined place. 147 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:36,000 That is the purpose of the Gita, the whole purpose of the Gita is 148 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,600 to tell you your life cannot be made predictable. 149 00:07:39,300 --> 00:07:43,700 So, but sticking with this topic of chat boards there is this 150 00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:45,600 Bible chat pod that still exists. 151 00:07:46,100 --> 00:07:48,200 You have an Islamic one that went offline. 152 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,800 After it said that you know, you should kill polytheists and this 153 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,800 sort of question on some model where I just put in my 154 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,200 questions. If I'm bored. 155 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,200 What do I do or something? Similar is something that's 156 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,100 existed. It's not something that the a 157 00:08:02,100 --> 00:08:05,000 model has come up with it. Something even spiritual leaders 158 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,400 have done for decades books have been written like that. 159 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:12,400 So what happens now when it's a chatbot and a mobile bi is that 160 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:14,900 very different. She'll give you an example, 161 00:08:15,100 --> 00:08:17,500 okay? There is in the second chapter 162 00:08:17,500 --> 00:08:22,600 of the Gita third verse. I think Krishna calls Arjun, he 163 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,000 uses Sanskrit word Clipper. Now if you ask the chat box what 164 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,700 is Ever. It will go to the word Clipper 165 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:30,100 and then it will go to dictionary. 166 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,500 And then from the dictionary, pull out those meanings and 167 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:38,100 share it with you. Now, Clipper means the 168 00:08:38,100 --> 00:08:42,500 equivalent of numbered in Hindi, to Krishna, is looking at our 169 00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:45,300 June and saying number the mud below because he's telling I 170 00:08:45,300 --> 00:08:47,600 won't fight. It is typical to have some 171 00:08:47,700 --> 00:08:49,700 Soldier. If a soldier is a micro needle 172 00:08:49,700 --> 00:08:52,700 Mikuni, carne. The standard dialogue would be 173 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:55,800 something like, don't be a wuss. Don't be a woman. 174 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,200 You know, we will use this kind of language amongst friends, 175 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,500 right. People are suddenly I'm 176 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:02,800 comfortable because God is using Language like, you've been doing 177 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,300 Krishna is God, how can Krishna use a language and insulting 178 00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:09,500 condescending? Deriding language is God is not 179 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:11,500 supposed to behave like that, because we have decided, how God 180 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:14,300 should behave. We construct, God, we decide how 181 00:09:14,300 --> 00:09:16,200 God should behave. And then we see this dialogue, 182 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,800 which doesn't align. And this is should the Sanskrit. 183 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,200 And it's basically saying, now, murdered in krsna's using this 184 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,000 language, it's the kind of word which was used by politicians to 185 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,800 abuse the opponent's, it's not a nice word but it's used in the 186 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:33,300 Story of to understand is told in a context, it's told in the 187 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:35,800 battlefield, there is a soldier, the soldiers waiting for you, 188 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,700 and it's their friends and they talking to each other, this 189 00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:42,100 cannot be pulled out of various sources, right? 190 00:09:42,100 --> 00:09:43,700 You will. So what happens? 191 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:45,900 And if you start using chatbots, you realize you can trick it. 192 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:47,800 You can ask the same question in a different way. 193 00:09:47,900 --> 00:09:50,700 Using different grammar playing around and it gets can it 194 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:53,300 doesn't you? Confuse it just keeps looking at 195 00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:56,000 each of those questions as different questions because it 196 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,600 doesn't have the power of language language is not a 197 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,100 database structure. Its Which is creative and we are 198 00:10:02,100 --> 00:10:05,700 continuously defining language. We can create new words. 199 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:09,000 That's the nature of language. Imagination is playing a role I 200 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,700 am talking to you. And as I'm talking to you, I'm 201 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:13,100 figuring out how you think? How you behave when I'm talking 202 00:10:13,100 --> 00:10:14,400 to a child? A talk differently? 203 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,000 When I'm talking to an adult, a talk differently chatbot? 204 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,400 Doesn't understand all this. It doesn't understand. 205 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,700 Who is entering this data. If the sentence is it a child? 206 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,800 Is the man. Is it a woman is a Christian? 207 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,400 Is that a Muslim? Is it Urban person and a rural 208 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,600 person unemployed person? He knows nothing. 209 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,900 It just does. Only data it has is the words 210 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:35,900 that you wrote on that sheet of paper when a human being is 211 00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:39,800 talking to you about the bhagavad-gita, he sees you. 212 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,000 The guruji's are looking at you and that using Gita as a kind of 213 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,800 a reference material, like a lawyer would. 214 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,700 But when the law is talking to, you is sensing how insecure you 215 00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:53,900 are frightened you are, he's also not sure how the case is 216 00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:56,500 going to turn out but he's giving you words to comfort you 217 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,100 and then preparing for his case and there's a lot of going on in 218 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:01,900 his head you can't replace Fire with a chatbot. 219 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,100 Even some subject like law. I still ask people. 220 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:09,000 Why are you creating a beautiful algorithm with all the 221 00:11:09,008 --> 00:11:12,800 information of the law and all the president papers from around 222 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,700 the world which is very well documented? 223 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,000 We don't need lawyers then right. 224 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:19,200 Then we don't need judges, it'll be so easy. 225 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,700 I just put the case paper and it will come out. 226 00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:24,400 The answer will come out in a fraction of a second and we 227 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,600 could end all the problems of you know the cases pending we 228 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,900 don't need an argument. But in my how we'll chat bot 229 00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:34,800 deal with the same-sex marriage issue. 230 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,800 So if you can't deal with human legal political issues, how do 231 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,500 you deal with God and divine? Which is so abstract in meaning 232 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,300 and dealing with emotional issues, but they were given 233 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:52,100 that, you know, that you spoke about how unlike other 234 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:57,200 religions, we don't have one particular book, which makes the 235 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,700 interpretation for our religion that much harder. 236 00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:05,900 There is no one voice telling you to follow these things. 237 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:10,600 How does then a new generation access something? 238 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,500 So complex has Hinduism at a time when Hinduism is being 239 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:18,100 challenged in so many countries. So every religion has this 240 00:12:18,100 --> 00:12:20,800 problem, let's take a Bible. If you say the Bible is one 241 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,600 book. We call it one book but the 242 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,500 denominations within denominations within 243 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:26,800 denominations who don't agree with half the things and if you 244 00:12:26,808 --> 00:12:29,800 go to the translations will be read in English, it's written in 245 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,600 Aramaic. And as the translations happen, 246 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,900 the word the meanings kept changing for example. 247 00:12:34,900 --> 00:12:37,700 Now, when you read the new Bibles in America, actually use 248 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:40,400 the word homosexuality. There was no word homosexuality 249 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,600 in Aramaic. There is no word like 250 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,400 homosexuality in Aramaic. You have come here, foosh pushed 251 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,600 in a word there. So there is no one Bible out 252 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:50,800 there. The king, there are many, many, 253 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,200 many bibles out there, so I'm talking about just things which 254 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,600 we assume is fixed. Let's look at the Quran, the 255 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,700 conversation of God, but in Islam is not just the Quran is 256 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:02,000 also the hadees which is the life of the Prophet and the 257 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,300 Shia's will never agree with the sunnis, will never agree with 258 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:05,800 anybody. And I always smile because 259 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,700 whenever I tell this is there is a but you're not a Muslim, you 260 00:13:07,708 --> 00:13:09,900 won't understand. I said that's this line. 261 00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:12,800 You get from everyone, right? Which means all Muslims have to 262 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,100 understand, which means all Muslims think the same way. 263 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:17,400 But then, why are they quarrels even there? 264 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,400 It's not as simple. As we think was language is 265 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,200 slippery. You know, I can tell you, I hate 266 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,800 you but a lover can tell the Beloved, I hate you and that can 267 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,300 be put in a database as I hate You and how does the chat box 268 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:34,700 figure? The meaning of this high heat to 269 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:36,500 because they don't get the intonation. 270 00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:38,900 The sound context. When was it said, how was it? 271 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:41,600 Said. Imagine every word that we utter 272 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:46,700 has so many things embedded in it, the intonation, the context 273 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:50,200 who is saying, when is it, say in what stage is he saying every 274 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,600 sentence? So the database doesn't capture 275 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,900 all of it. How much ever you capture? 276 00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:56,800 The Digital Data, the cameras and all that. 277 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,400 They don't capture it. The, but the assumption that 278 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,600 because An easy problem. I can capture the word and I 279 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,700 started giving you words over. That's the problem in court 280 00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:08,900 cases, right? I remember recently, I saw an 281 00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:12,400 interview of the lady is mine. I will kiss, Bono case. 282 00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:15,200 She said, that every time they're asking me to repeat the 283 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:16,800 event. Step one. 284 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,400 Why you asking you to repeat when it's already been recorded 285 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:20,800 stew. Every time she repeats. 286 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,600 She's terrified. If she makes one mistake, the 287 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,100 court of the judges. The lawyers will pounce on her 288 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,500 and attacker. This is how complex Life Is, 289 00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:30,100 Right. Memory is there? 290 00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:33,200 It's never black and white case that I can prove. 291 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,600 That rapists are not rapists. Same way. 292 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,700 Now, imagine what happens in the realm of imagination, in the 293 00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:44,300 realm of transcendental ideas, it gets even more complicated, 294 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:47,000 you know, bhagavad-gita, when you see the word athma, what 295 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,300 does it mean? When you say the Dharma, what 296 00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:51,700 does it mean? Because in the conversation, 297 00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:53,900 there's an assumption, the people know the meanings of 298 00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:55,600 these words, the meaning of the word. 299 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,900 Clipper, for example, I mean, give you the example, I remember 300 00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:01,300 this one. Crazy, right wing, goo, Instead 301 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:03,000 try to attack me say that you don't know some skills, you 302 00:15:03,008 --> 00:15:06,500 don't know some skills and this in observed premise because it's 303 00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:10,000 saying that all translators are, don't matter the translations 304 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,400 don't matter. You only if you know the 305 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,400 language and this is exactly what how brahmins controlled 306 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,500 things, right? They said that only if you know 307 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:19,000 the language but now the chat bot only refers to English 308 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,500 texts, it is not referring to the thermal translations. 309 00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:25,400 It is not referring to the Gujarati translations and those 310 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,200 translations then they have to re translate them and then come 311 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,700 up with something and then come up with an idea. 312 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,600 Algorithm. The assumption is that if I got 313 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,900 lots of databases, lots and lots of points of view, somehow 314 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:40,700 democratically through clever, weight age and anybody 315 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:44,300 understand statistics how these things work mathematical come up 316 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:48,400 with the correct answer. That premise is wrong. 317 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,800 That remains is wrong in human relationships. 318 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,300 I don't know where it'll work, but maybe it'll work in how to 319 00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:57,400 write an answer. This answer to a physics problem 320 00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:00,800 to chemistry problem where it is an objective. 321 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,200 There cannot be two ways about it, but the moment it comes to 322 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,600 the realm of humanities where there can be opinions, views 323 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,300 points of views, technology cannot work because it's 324 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:15,100 foundationally wrong. Otherwise, we would have simple 325 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:17,200 chat Bots to solve diseases, right? 326 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:19,200 You don't need doctors but disease. 327 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,100 Is not just a set of physical symptoms. 328 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,500 It's also subjective how I respond to pain is varied the 329 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:29,700 way you respond to pain, and I respond to pain will be very 330 00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:31,800 different. Then if you are cut with a knife 331 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,600 and I am cut with the knife, the way I will describe it and feel 332 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,300 it. The doctor will say it, does it 333 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:37,900 from one to ten. Tell me the pain. 334 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,400 You may say that it, you know, someone was a soldier was fought 335 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,500 in battles, may say three, and I will say 11. 336 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:48,400 But what is the correct thing? How does a chatbot figure it 337 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,500 out? This is where I realize, you 338 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:53,100 know, that we think these Engineers are very smart, but 339 00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:56,400 they never studied the subjects. I am a student of Science and 340 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,400 studied medicine and I know how complex medicine is. 341 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,099 And I studied with some of the best doctors in India and they 342 00:17:04,099 --> 00:17:08,200 would tell how difficult it is. To, you know, even when you 343 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,599 know, it's a cancer, even if you know, which drugs to give you 344 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,599 are never short because biology is unpredictable. 345 00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:17,900 Somebody will get a allergic reaction which you never thought 346 00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:20,400 of. That's why they make, you sign 347 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,700 all those consent forms because you think you don't know how 348 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:25,200 your body will respond. And we just talked about the 349 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,099 body over here, we're not even talking about the mind when 350 00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:31,000 you're talking about Gita. We are dealing with existential 351 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,400 crisis. What is the purpose of life? 352 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:35,900 How can I kill my relatives, these are the function questions 353 00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:38,900 he's asking. Yeah, profounder in or should I 354 00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:43,100 kill idolaters Quran? Its if you read the Quran it's 355 00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:45,600 not that simple. How it is, organized? 356 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,200 How the Quran is organized. What is the first chapter? 357 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,200 But is the last chapter, the later verses are the first 358 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,400 chapter and the early versus are the last chapter, even then 359 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,200 Scholars aren't 100% sure of the sequencing of it. 360 00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:00,400 So in the sequence, what is the value of the sequence? 361 00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:04,100 What the prophet heard on day one is it as important as what 362 00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:06,800 you heard in the last day even then. 363 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,000 When Scholars sitting in the room, may not agree on it, and 364 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,500 you expect a machine to figure it out. 365 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,500 It's like saying, I don't need a wife, I can handle a Robo Robo, 366 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:17,900 will take care of me and we all know yes, there are sex toys in 367 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:21,300 the world and there are these machines that will cook for you 368 00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:24,800 and they will not give you love. No machine can give you love or 369 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,200 affection, or take away your insecurities. 370 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:30,400 Show me a machine that does that it at best distracts you. 371 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,200 But with AI, one more thing that you're going to have is the 372 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,600 visual representational Factor as well. 373 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,100 I do. Already seeing to sort of shifts 374 00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:42,100 where, you know, you give cues, you're getting, you're getting a 375 00:18:42,108 --> 00:18:43,700 brown. Jesus, you're getting things 376 00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:46,500 like that things which are fundamentally altering, our own 377 00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:49,400 imagination of these characters, in the previous episode, we 378 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,000 discussed this sort of angry and one which came from a synthesis 379 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,700 of two random images. Do you think there's a scene now 380 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:59,400 where we may see new visual cues for how we perceive Our God's, 381 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,900 you know, how does Jesus look? You know, for most people is a 382 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:07,000 white man with red hair which was created by the The 383 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,500 Renaissance artist based on their lovers really, and it's 384 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:12,800 very disturbing for people to hear this but the fact is the 385 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,200 renaissance man. They saw these beautiful man in 386 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,400 Venice and Geneva and the painted, these men. 387 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,400 And that's the image of Jesus that you have is not. 388 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,200 Looks like an Arab, the only physical description that we 389 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,100 probably have Jesus, is that he had a slightly hooked nose? 390 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,200 That's the only information that we seem to have physical not 391 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,500 other that we have nothing. I mean there was some apocryphal 392 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:36,300 test. Is he was a short man and you 393 00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:38,600 know you have all these Words, but he was being added, would be 394 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,400 sunburned at the very least. You can just go to Middle 395 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,200 Eastern. Photograph people over there and 396 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,300 just imagine, but that's not the Jesus that you see. 397 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,300 When you look at the Buddha, when he goes to China, he looks 398 00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:49,900 Chinese. And he looks Japanese and he 399 00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:52,700 looks Korean different parts of the world Keanu. 400 00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:56,000 Reeves played him in the Bollywood Hollywood version of, 401 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,400 you know, some somehow he's not a Nepali, he can be anything. 402 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,800 Even Indians refuse to believe that it would be a Nepali guy 403 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,900 because, you know, how could it be Nepali and this kind of 404 00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:08,100 racism comes in. It seeps in and that's what the 405 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:10,000 chat bot is going to get the racism. 406 00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:13,800 You can see that in all these because most of these are my 407 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,800 Engineers, they have their own political leanings. 408 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,800 So they pick up their own politics and start thinking 409 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,800 that, oh, I can change the world because through this 410 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,700 engineering, I will tell people ROM looks and it, you know, I 411 00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:24,900 saw the man of this video with the show. 412 00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:27,100 This is our arm looked and I'm like, oh my God, this looks like 413 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:31,600 Mishra ji from gorakhpur. So it could see that what was 414 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,200 the data points being given to him or they should all have 415 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,800 these jaw lines which remind you of Hollywood actors. 416 00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:39,300 Because they're using those images to each other know. 417 00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:43,300 Obviously, there are more images of Hollywood stars than you have 418 00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:45,500 even of Indian Stars. We would like to believe that 419 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:47,600 Indian Stars a lot of photographs, but its sheer 420 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,400 volume, you would have more Hollywood images out there than 421 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,500 Bollywood images, and of course God's will never be African, 422 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:56,000 right? We cannot have African gods and 423 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,000 you see all these racism coming into the algorithms? 424 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:05,200 Also, and remember when we see a DAT, people saw God's in rocks, 425 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,500 this all gods in clouds. This or gods and rivers, this or 426 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:11,200 gods and trees. We see God the way we want to 427 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,700 see God dream, you know, in Hindu temples away from the 428 00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:16,500 third century. When they started creating God's 429 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,600 to distinguish human and divine figures, they said God should 430 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,000 have four hands. Otherwise a lady holding a pot 431 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,800 and a Lotus could be any woman. How do you know it is Lakshmi 432 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,800 for hands? That is the only proof that it's 433 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,700 divine for hands is the minimum requirement. 434 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,600 And you see this only from the third Century, you don't see it 435 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,600 before that. You see it only the PostScript 436 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,900 the period when you start seeing, when I started looking 437 00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:43,100 for images with four hands. They start appearing only 4th 438 00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:46,900 5th Century. So, we created these images to 439 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,700 these were. And if you look at carefully, I 440 00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:51,800 mean something that people, comment the human face your face 441 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,400 in my face, the left side is not the same as, right? 442 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:57,000 Because it's That's How Humans Beings are designed. 443 00:21:57,500 --> 00:21:59,800 It's asymmetrical. But if you look at an Egyptian 444 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,100 statues, the statues look perfect because the left 445 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,700 Excited. They're done mathematically. 446 00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:05,200 They're not done looking at a person. 447 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,600 They're done mathematically. All the traditional Indian art, 448 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,100 the gods are done mathematically. 449 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:14,100 They are impressionist drawings because they are talking about 450 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:16,900 transcendental ideas. They are not fools, they're not 451 00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,500 idiots. Even when a madhubani painter is 452 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,300 drawing, she knows she's talking about conceptual things. 453 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:27,500 She's talking about the river who is riding a crocodile and 454 00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:30,200 talking to the trees. She doesn't think the trees 455 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,900 talking. She is knows metaphors. 456 00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:34,200 She knows symbols. She knows the language of 457 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,700 symbols. She knows the language of 458 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:40,200 metaphors. No computer not can ever use 459 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,700 metaphor. That's what computers can't 460 00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:48,900 crack jokes, but this seems to be greedy learning among people 461 00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:55,000 to somehow get addicted so Commandments or easy reference 462 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,700 points to access religion. And in this is increasingly, so 463 00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:03,000 happening with a younger generation, which perhaps has 464 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,800 not had the same tradition of, of, of yours of understanding 465 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,100 that we come from a world of stories and not algorithms, Of 466 00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:17,400 the challenges and this kind of referencing has upon them. 467 00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:20,400 See in one way, this is the reason why Islam became very 468 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,100 popular and still is one of the most fastest growing religions 469 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:26,900 in the world because it this seems to be certainty. 470 00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:30,800 Everybody will pray in exactly the same way God has told you to 471 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,400 pay four times or five times a day. 472 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,600 What has told you to not work once a week God has told you to 473 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,800 do this. It's very clean. 474 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,800 It's apparently clean. Apparently so it gives you a 475 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,700 sense of control as It's of order, you are all over lost and 476 00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:47,400 suddenly somebody tells you you know just do this 2010, things 477 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,800 in life will get better. You have these listicles. 478 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,700 Right? This is if you eat like this, 479 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:53,700 your stomach problems will be solved if we would write like 480 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:57,900 this religion also does the same thing and therefore Islam is 481 00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:00,600 popular because of that, but what happens after some time, 482 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:04,400 look at the history of Islam, they started killing each other 483 00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:06,700 shortly. After the prophet left, even 484 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:08,400 when the prophet was alive, they were killing each other. 485 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,600 After the prophet goes over, his family starts, killing his 486 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,800 father, in law and in In law fight with each other, which is 487 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,400 either. She has only divide happens. 488 00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:18,200 So even though that it's such a clear set of instructions 489 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,400 because what happens is those instructions, work for people 490 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,400 individually, they don't work even with your partner. 491 00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:28,500 So within a network, we live in a network of relationships. 492 00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:32,100 You and I have to deal with hundreds of people, those laws 493 00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:36,000 which work for me, may not work for you and I there are hundreds 494 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,500 like you out there. So then I have to deal with 495 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:40,600 everybody who doesn't agree with me and that's very frustrating. 496 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,500 And I am used to Ecology where everything is under my control 497 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:45,200 press press, press a few buttons. 498 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,400 That's why people are Harry Potter. 499 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,100 Right? One Mantra one wizard that 500 00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:52,400 wizard will move like this and suddenly things will happen. 501 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,000 What happened to those people who read Harry Potter. 502 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,500 They turned on the creator of Harry Potter with a Vengeance 503 00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:03,700 when she didn't align with their politics and it's something that 504 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:06,100 must never be forgotten. That's a great story. 505 00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:09,100 And that's how life is we want control. 506 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:13,000 We want predictability engineering, Science. 507 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,300 The way science has been Western science. 508 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,400 Science, doesn't have to be science is just the study of 509 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,100 nature and figuring it out but the West has always approached 510 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:25,300 science with the aim to control it. 511 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,600 I want to control it so that I can make it predictable and make 512 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,700 life a better place because they believe I can control the world. 513 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:36,000 That is how the Western religions are designed to 514 00:25:36,008 --> 00:25:40,100 control commandments. So you have command prompt. 515 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:43,600 That's the language they use. A whole language of the West is 516 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,300 based on control. Its military control. 517 00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:49,600 Even God keeps punishing. I mean, you read the Old 518 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,800 Testament, God punishes you when you don't follow the rules, but 519 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,200 people keep not following the rules. 520 00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:55,600 I mean, if I was to be a brutal critical say, oh my God, even 521 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,600 God is Not That powerful because all his children don't seem to 522 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,900 be listening to him. The keep arguing, he keeps 523 00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:03,100 putting fire floods and all that. 524 00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:05,400 And now we think dick tasters think that we can do better than 525 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,300 God. You know, what? 526 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:09,700 Krishna couldn't stop the war, but I can stop a war. 527 00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:14,100 Do you realize how stupid that sounds, you know, you know, 528 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:16,900 Noah's Ark flooded the whole world, but still children, don't 529 00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:19,400 listen to him. The still disagree with him and 530 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,000 the still worship idols and we are tailing. 531 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,700 That Engineers will create a chatbot to control the world and 532 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:27,900 make the world, a happy / happy, they mean a controllable world 533 00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:31,300 where everybody listens to what they have put in the commands, 534 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:35,100 but there are also people who are increasingly wanting to 535 00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:36,300 follow it. That's the way. 536 00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:38,600 Something always be. So what happens is you have two 537 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,600 groups of people so the bit to algorithm then they'll fight 538 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,300 with each other which is exactly what happened. 100 years ago, 539 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,400 it's like somebody set a partition of India will solve 540 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,700 all our problems. It didn't nowadays, somebody 541 00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:49,800 saying, the uniform civil code will solve all our problems. 542 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,300 It won't somebody say, if I get married to this girl, all my 543 00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:55,900 problems will be solved. We are, we are human beings. 544 00:26:55,900 --> 00:27:00,900 We constantly believe the next big challenge is going to solve 545 00:27:00,900 --> 00:27:03,400 our problems. The fact is it won't? 546 00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:06,900 That is why the Buddha had down and say stop. 547 00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:09,800 This is what Indian philosophy always does. 548 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,500 The Jane's said, stop, you will not find a solution. 549 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,000 This is the way the world is should in India. 550 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,800 They would always say ET. This is the way the world is now 551 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,100 deal with it. What you are saying that? 552 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:26,000 I will only the only way I can exist is by controlling the 553 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,800 world or withdrawing from the world Indian philosophy. 554 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,500 Said, no, this is the way the world is. 555 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,800 Don't we draw from it? Observe it deal with it. 556 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,400 Boohoo, if you can't handle it because you'll keep coming back 557 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,200 into this world, it will never go away. 558 00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:42,900 So it's literally a very brutal philosophy. 559 00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:44,200 Indian philosophy is very brutal. 560 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,300 It says, no, there is no happily ever after. 561 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,000 Are you find in order to do that? 562 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,900 What you find? There is a happy ever after and 563 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:55,700 when you reach that they say, well, no really but so in the 564 00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:58,700 thought is very is basically saying this is the way the 565 00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:02,000 world. Is and they will always be 566 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,600 people who seek control. This is so funny. 567 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,800 It reminds me of that video game that we used to grow. 568 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,700 We grow up playing Mario which every at the end of every level 569 00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:15,300 inference is sorry about your princess is in another Castle. 570 00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:18,600 You go to the other Carson and start all over again. 571 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,000 With more complexities, you need more complex, it is. 572 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,300 And the thing is, we know that the castle will never be there. 573 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:26,300 We know it, but will still play the game, right? 574 00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:28,200 Because it's fun to play the game. 575 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,100 The Fab point is not to find the castle. 576 00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:33,900 The point is not, the point is with your friends, competing and 577 00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:36,400 seeing, which level you are in and that's to figure it out. 578 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,600 It's not about the princess. In the castle, it's about you 579 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,800 enjoying yourself and getting a break from the homework. 580 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,800 That's what you want. That's what life is about. 581 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,600 And, you know, these are the philosophies that the Indians 582 00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:53,400 and most of the fellows not is the Indians around the world, 583 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,300 the wise men talk about. But, you know, then you have 584 00:28:56,300 --> 00:29:00,300 Engineers will say that no. What we know what, we have all 585 00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:03,200 those cliches that impossible is written in the dictionary of 586 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,300 fools? I am possible, all those things 587 00:29:07,300 --> 00:29:09,000 are there. Then you have to tell heart, 588 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,100 very good. I have met people who argue 589 00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:15,600 things and you know if you tell them that you know but you know 590 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,900 if it disappear nothing is going to change in this world. 591 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,700 Even if you win nothing is going to change. 592 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:22,500 Even if you lose nothing is going to change the world which 593 00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:24,500 is going to be. So you focus on what you can do 594 00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:28,000 and how you can live a happier life and if a chatbot is going 595 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,000 to answer the questions, For you, good for you. 596 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,200 But it may not work fathers and that's the thing. 597 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,900 You have to accept, it may work for you but it may not work for 598 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:38,400 others. It may solve your life's 599 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,000 problems, it may not solve your neighbors. 600 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,400 Life's problems are bringing is we wanted to solve everyone's 601 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,400 life problems. It won't my Guru. 602 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,000 Ji works for me. My chatbot works for me my you 603 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,300 know, drugs work for me. They may not work for you. 604 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,400 And that is diversity. And that is inclusion is to 605 00:29:56,408 --> 00:29:58,500 accept that. And this is something that 606 00:29:58,500 --> 00:30:02,000 unfortunately very difficult to tell Engineers that very 607 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,100 difficult. I want to what do have made. 608 00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:09,400 So do it takes, do they have a definition for information 609 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,100 because we understand wisdom. But we are now dealing in a 610 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:18,000 world where there is so much information which technology is 611 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,800 sort of lifted or on wielder Unleashed upon us. 612 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,800 How do how does it describe information? 613 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,700 So it's very difficult to say what does mythology business. 614 00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:32,100 These are complex words in English and in Sanskrit and what 615 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:35,500 do some skills me like this word like neon and vegan and is very 616 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:37,300 difficult to explain the difference between gown and 617 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:39,200 began. I have seen, at least three 618 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,800 definitions given for Gannon began, so every Guru gives it a 619 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,200 different spin in science. Science is based on measurement, 620 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,900 everything is based on measurement and statistics. 621 00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:50,400 That's the one thing which is it is not dependent on opinion, it 622 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,600 is based on mathematics and That's the unique thing about 623 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,400 science, its definition of Sciences nucleus, in verba, not 624 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,200 on anyone's word, it is only based on math is ontological. 625 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,800 It is way outside you now, Hindu mythology, divides. 626 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,400 Our Indian thought really divides the world into two parts 627 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,300 that which is measurable. And that which is 628 00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:13,300 non-measurable. So, the measurable part is what 629 00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:15,300 the science deals with, and that's the information. 630 00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:18,500 So all the info as you improve your improvements, your 631 00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:21,500 information gets further refined, you know today you 632 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:23,600 could see the stars See the galaxies then you can see 633 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,500 something Beyond it or you can see smaller and smaller things, 634 00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:28,600 you can see atoms and quizzes and electrons and something 635 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,600 subatomic particles and you keep going because your instruments 636 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,800 have improved. But that remains the material 637 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,900 world of measurement. What you don't and cannot 638 00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:40,000 measure is the non-measurable, world, the needle. 639 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,600 Gouda the nirakara, and that is where the Divinity is at a 640 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,100 really, it's the world of emotion at the very simple. 641 00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:48,600 Practical level, it's the world of emotion. 642 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,700 No, scientist can measure emotion, they can measure a 643 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,800 Logical response that your body has to an emotion. 644 00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:58,000 When you get angry, what does your body do? 645 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,500 That can be measured. I cannot measure. 646 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,900 I always tell people that if you hunt in the forest, the dopamine 647 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:09,500 release in. You is the same as when you sign 648 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:13,900 the billion-dollar contract, the billion-dollar contract will 649 00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:17,900 release the same neural response in your body as somebody killing 650 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,500 a deer in the forest 10,000 years ago after days of 651 00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:25,000 starvation. Science will read both of them 652 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,800 the same way unless you have an understanding of the context, 653 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,000 the physical response can be measured in all the 654 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,700 psychological response. This is nirvana, this is an 655 00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:37,800 Indian thought is very clear. This is non-measurable, you will 656 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,000 capture it through language. So you'll have different words 657 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,900 to explain anxiety nervousness will keep using these refined 658 00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:49,100 language, but that's not measurement. 659 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,200 You can't use language for science. 660 00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:55,500 So the practice he nature, which is measurable is information. 661 00:32:56,500 --> 00:33:01,000 That which is non-measurable. The sensations, the feelings, 662 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:08,400 the emotions, the Brahma, the Atma, the Jiva, the, your fears, 663 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,100 your insecurities. Those cannot be measured will 664 00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,300 never. You can know it is there. 665 00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:16,000 But you can't measure it. You can get a recorder to say. 666 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,000 Oh, he's scared. He's scared. 667 00:33:17,300 --> 00:33:19,300 You'll only get a measurement of his physiological and therefore, 668 00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:22,800 you can be tricked by somebody who can create the physical. 669 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,800 You know, the actors can pretend to be angry without being angry. 670 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,500 And they can get the same physiological reactions 671 00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:32,400 beautifully, they'll show anger, frothing mouth and everything, 672 00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:34,000 but they're not angry at all. They performing. 673 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,000 So, that's the whole thing. You can, you know, the 674 00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:43,000 information is, the Iron Man suit, not the person within that 675 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,900 will never be. You cannot have all the 676 00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:50,500 information on a human being. Even the poet writing, his 677 00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:55,300 emotions in the finest language may be fooling himself. 678 00:33:56,300 --> 00:34:00,600 So, finally, I just want to ask that if you do, look at the 679 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,500 whole Greek myths about man-made creatures, they almost in always 680 00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:08,400 seem to be about men, developing things that go horribly wrong 681 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,199 for them. I mean, now that's carried 682 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,199 forward into the Marvel Universe with your Iron Man metaphor as 683 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,900 they say where you're constantly creating things that come back 684 00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:19,600 to bite you later. Why do most of our myths? 685 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,100 Talk of magnet creatures as cautionary tales? 686 00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:25,699 Why it does in there ever a thing that kind of sees the 687 00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:28,000 world as You said, I just love the way you use the word 688 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,800 man-made and not artificial artificial. 689 00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:36,300 Man-made intelligence doesn't sell as well as artificial 690 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:39,800 intelligence, right. The thing is in Hindu myths, you 691 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,600 have this thing of the Asura asking for immortality and then 692 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,800 he is told that you can't get immortality then he comes up 693 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,900 with a clever, you know, idea that he says will ensure is and 694 00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:52,699 then that becomes a loophole and then he destroyed by that and 695 00:34:52,699 --> 00:34:54,900 then the world keeps. So nothing is permanent and that 696 00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:57,900 is a re-established through this Be telling in the Greek myths, 697 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,500 the whole idea is that you know, when you know you have these 698 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:06,400 characters creating these powerful tools and machines and 699 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,300 this constant need to emulate the gods, but gods are 700 00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:12,400 constantly telling you that it won't work. 701 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,200 It won't work you. So why are you building this 702 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,400 tools? And that's the question. 703 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,600 You have to ask yourself, you have to ask yourself. 704 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,100 Why are you building this tools and myths? 705 00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:25,400 Are there not to stop you from taking initiative? 706 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,600 But to tell you that be clear, why you are taking the 707 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,300 initiative, whether it fails, whether it works. 708 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,700 It's, please be clear. Why you're taking the 709 00:35:35,707 --> 00:35:38,000 initiatives? Mythology is the memories of our 710 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,500 ancestors. They are not storytellers. 711 00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,400 They are the memories of millions of years, which have 712 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,800 been communicated to the roster stories symbols and rituals. 713 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,200 When I tell people stories, I see and I'm carrying the voice 714 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,900 of millions of ancestors. You see this young child saying 715 00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:54,300 that? No, but I can change the world 716 00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,700 but what the rear forget. Is yes, the world has changed 717 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,200 but it is only trained in technology. 718 00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:04,500 It has not changed in Emotion jealousy. 719 00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:08,000 A thousand years ago and jealousy today is exactly the 720 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,100 same presence of a cell phone in your life or a laptop or a 721 00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:13,800 Wi-Fi. Doesn't make you less jealous. 722 00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:18,000 Elon Musk can never create an app that reduces jealousy. 723 00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:23,100 And the day and engineer says, I can create an app that will 724 00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:25,300 reduce jealousy. All it does is increase the 725 00:36:25,308 --> 00:36:28,800 competitive Spirit. It makes you basically makes you 726 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,200 hungrier and angrier and angrier and angrier. 727 00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:33,100 It is not able to make you content. 728 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,000 It is not able to make you less jealous. 729 00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:40,900 It is not able to make you calm down because it these 730 00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:45,600 Technologies are not designed for the mind, the design for 731 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,500 matter. And all shifts. 732 00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:51,100 I mean the last Thousand Years digitization industrialization 733 00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:55,200 agriculture Revolution on all that only technology has changed 734 00:36:55,900 --> 00:37:00,400 mind has not changed and that is something that people forget 735 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,500 that your mind is defend. The problem with mind is, 736 00:37:02,508 --> 00:37:05,700 there's no universal mind. We are three of us here talking. 737 00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:08,100 We have three different Minds in this room becomes from three 738 00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:10,400 different spaces. What works for me will never 739 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,000 work for you. And there are millions, there 740 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,300 are billions of people in this world. 741 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,900 Each one thinks differently so So even if you create a 742 00:37:17,908 --> 00:37:20,500 universal mind, which is what humans and of the World created 743 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,500 some they try to again the science. 744 00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,500 Now the try to control, everybody knew that, no one 745 00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:28,600 religion, no one God, no one chatbot, no month, it'll never 746 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:38,300 work but will still try. Today's episode was produced by 747 00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:41,600 Jay Raj, Singh soon. I moratti and on Vijay Singh for 748 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,300 a daily Spotlight. On people ideas and stories that 749 00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:47,200 matter subscribe to us, we're available on T. 750 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,200 Y+ Spotify, Apple Google podcast and all other platforms of your 751 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,300 choice. For any new steps email us at 752 00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:58,200 DIY podcast at times, internet dot in